Well off of the Memorial Day holiday here in the United States, we come
your way with the month of June looming with another bonus edition of the Fight
Freaks Unite Recap podcast Off the weekend. I am the somewhat capable host T
J. Reeves, and I have decided to call upon someone that I do
go to frequently on the air and off the air for insight for particularly boxing
in the UK and England, but also movies, nostalgia, whatever it takes.
He's back again. Hello to my colleague David Payne, aka the boxing
writer from over in Britain. Good to have you on all fronts, because
man, did we have a ton of action this weekend that I want thoughts
on. But also when we start talking boxing movies and Rayphael went there,
Dan Raphael went there on this very podcast, fee that Rocky three is not
only the greatest of the Rocky series of movies, but is in his mind
the greatest movie of all time. Almost like mohamma, I'm the greatest of
all time. He's going greatest of all time and I just don't know about
that. In any event, thank you for finding us. Hello David Payne,
who is spending some time with me here midweek. Good to have you,
my friend. Always good to talk to you, TJ. And excited
to talk about the fights I know the podcast listeners of I've been through these
with Dan. But so he's perhaps good to have a British perspective and to
throw him my two pennis on the Rookie series and did make a very compelling
case for Rockie three. And obviously and whatever other topics might come up,
and we've got the most connection of course, Yes, we're got to talk
about that. Probably better qualified than than to discuss. Yes, so we
can. We can cover all bases, all right, So let's let's get
into it. First of all, I should say to the audience I love
David for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which is he
has been adamant. And that is the word we'll use. Adamant, Uh,
not forcefully yet not threatening, but adamant. We're not We're not using
video off of this right, we're not using video, No social teases,
et cetera. Yet you redecorated the background behind you and put up a photo
of Lennox Lewis behind you, while continuing to be to be adamant that we
can't use video. So it's a print of a painting to each I understand,
but it's Theodore the mine right now. They can't see it. They're
not gonna see it because you keep urging me, don't use this, don't
use the video. Well, well you never know. I might. I
might relinquish the video rights to this, and I understand. So who is
Lennox popping with the left there in that photo? It's a great painting that
has Lenox kind of in the background as I describe it, and then Lennox
in the as a as like a shoulder shot or what we call I think.
So is it Oliver McCall? So it's an Oliverall fight? I don't
know how its tonically accurate? Is it before or after? McCall is crying
throughout the fight and throughout the in between? Who would do a point of
the other? One is a fight post of fun Lennox Lewis versus Glenn McClory,
which I love it. Lennox love all of this. Okay, So
that kind of segues into the big deal of fight. Speaking of Brits from
this past weekend, let's dive in. We don't have to go into the
full recap, but I want to come with this off the premise of the
Louis Alberto Lopez knockout of Michael Conlin of mcconlin in Belfast, Northern Ireland.
Okay, so one, give me what you saw, and then two more
importantly, Dan more so than me, thinks this is not just crossroads here,
but this could be it that Michael Conlin's days of being a big stage
fighter may be done. So first insight on what you saw and then just
go ahead with at thirty one, are we really near the end for Conlin
or can he sort it out and be back? Well, I think before
we go to Conlin, I think he's same poland it gives some credits to
Lewis the peers is. I think he's a fight to I enjoy watching.
I don't want to name drop or try and match him up with people from
the past that he kind of gives me echoes of. Well, the fact
that he comes forward with his hands down by his hips, launches from an
orthodox angles can put people down with single shots. I really like I liked
him when I started researching him in preview, before his previous visits here,
and I think he's a fighter we're going to enjoy watching for another couple of
years. He may lose him along the way, but I think he's going
to be in pretty thrilling fights. He's not I don't find him a standard
Mexican fighter. I don't like the stereotype based on nationality anyway. But he's
got some other attributes that He's just got this kind of chaotic style which I
quite like. And I'm going to say it anyway, there's little nuggets of
hammered in there. I think, just in the way that he has his
arrogance about him and the way they punches from the hip and he can stop
people. It doesn't seem to care about what's coming on the other way,
relies and reflex I just like him. So Lopez, credit to him.
He's done it again. He's come here to a big hostile crowd. Belfast,
as you mentioned in your discourse with Dan, is a hot place to
go. They know the boxing there, so they gave him great credit,
as they always doing Belfast. But it's a it's a patriotic, partisan place
to visit, and he's obviously was uninhibited and did the job. As for
Connel, and as you said, he is only thirty one, but maybe
he has found a ceiling for all his tremendous credentials as an amateur. Maybe
he will always be just be that one step short amongst the current cross of
featherweights. We will see it. I'll be surprised if it's the end for
him. I understand Dan's point. He may reach the kind of the place
of I've earned some money, I'm safe, and well, let's do some
other things with the rest of my life. But on the other hand,
that was a pretty hefty crowd drew, and I could imagine Conlin finding another
opponent that could draw another crowd that would be sold as a rebuild. Obviously
not going to go straight back into a title fight after two knockout defeats in
big fights, but boxes tend to go on longer than you want them to
rather than less time that you want to them too, So whether it's for
the better or worse, I think we'll see Conlin at least one more time.
One of Dan's points was he just didn't in the American vernacular, didn't
look like he had it, and by the second round he thought man Michael
Conlin doesn't look like he has it. He's getting hit. What would you
theorize is behind is a lot of that again credit Lopez, big punch.
What would you say? I think Conlin try to have the right strategy.
Here is a guy that the some echos in the wood fight probably knew that
he needed to box arrange to establish the job to you. Supposedly his superior
technique, with all that amateur grounding, all those dozens and dozens of opponents
from around the world that he's fought, there should have been no surprises in
Lopez. But of course, the difference between the amateur game and the professional
game is when you get hit on the chain by a professional featherweight, it's
slightly different kettler fish to the one with the head guard, and so on
and so forth. So I think we mustn't underestimate Lopez's punching power, the
fact that he surprises you from different angles. And I just think Conlin got
took out of his game plan and probably got caught between his game plan,
his natural length used the jab and the Irishman and him that wants to have
a scrap and prove that he's got the toughness to ride with the Mexican and
I think he got caught a little in between and then found himself falling out
of the fight and then found himself falling into a great upper cup. And
that was all she wrote. And I think Adam Booth kind of saw it
coming, perhaps in a third foth at the end the seat of fourth and
the towel was very quick over the should there wasn't it. There was no
hesitation, so I think, hopefully say for another day, if that's what
he chooses to do. But yeah, I couldn't establish the job in the
way that he wanted to, and I think we have to give credit to
Lopus for that and the power that clearly hurts or the featherweights. So good
insight post fight insight here from David Payne. Let's move on to Lee Wood's
victory, which again as we went over and I want you to have your
say here in our conversation, there wasn't much to this. Would got an
early knockdown, would in control Mauricio Laura obviously the weight problems and did not
look very interested as the fight went on, and even Dan said no urgency
in the corner and the latter rounds of the fight, tell him to try
to change or do almost resignation is the word I will use of. He's
beating us. He's going to beat us, all right, so give me
some thoughts on that. And then when the man mentioned I want to fight
at city Grounds. Now we're playing David Payne's song. We'll get to that
moment, but first with what you saw. Yeah, disappointed from Lara.
Another fighter that I've enjoyed watching over the last year or two. Again,
I've researched it a little bit before his fights with Warrington, etc. So
seeing more of his fights than would usually be available here in the UK,
dug them out on YouTube, etc. And I liked a lot of what
he saw, and going into the weekend I thought Conlin could get it done.
But a Lopez versus Lara unification would have been a tremendous prospect. However,
that sits promotionally. That would have been great fight between those two guys.
But as you say, Lara was a huge disappointment. We don't know.
We may never know how he arrived overweight. The British Boxing Board of
Control of some pretty stringent rules about how far overweight you can be a week
out from the fight. Obviously he was over here getting checked weight in.
I think it's four pounds something like that, so they wouldn't let him come
down any lower. Whether he customarily is able to cut that water cut that
weight at the last minute, and so it was somewhat disappointed not to be
able to try, or whether it spoke to a longer lack of care in
his preparation and expectation of being knock him Wood out again and therefore he didn't
have the miles in the legs as they say, and then you take the
title away, and then he didn't have the motivation and I think you used
a phrase checked out. And it seemed with the corner work as well,
they'd very much dropped the hotel keys off and we're on the way to the
airport. Just needed to go through the routine to collect to collect the check
and not being any further trouble and not lose any more from from missing the
way. Now, whether they were poorly educated as to the British boxing boarder
controls restrictions, I don't know. I was going to say they had to
go through them the first time for the first time. Yeah, close,
Maybe he was closer in the way last time. Again, I don't know
that. Maybe that information is available out there if I enough, but I
don't know that. But yeah, maybe the motivation going there was different.
He was a bit tighter to the weight nearer to or further out, so
didn't explore that, didn't have that. We always assume that these corners.
I don't know about ut J, and I think Dan made a reference to
something similar a week ago. We expect all these people to be super professional
and have it all all down and know everything and be prepared for every eventuality.
But a lot of the time some of them don't know what the hell
are doing in the corner. Which is not to say that that's the case
this time, But sometimes I think we make assumptions that people have crossed every
tea and dotted every eye. They only ever seem to do that with contracts,
don't they. But here with this stuff, I'm really there's there's an
unknown about it. I think Laura will be back, whether he's back as
a featherweight or whether there's a lot a longer term weight issue, will have
to wait and see. You would imagine he'd want to come back at further
weight where he's got a name where he'd be a non entity here again,
you know the fights, it's still a Warrington match would probably sell. But
yeah, the titles a gun for now. Okay, so we moved to
what Wood might do next as we're talking now the WBO or I'm sorry the
w BA. On Tuesday, I gotta keep all my alphabet soup straight.
The WBA did announce that they are formally ordering the fight against the young Russian
Kolmatoff, who's the number one contender. Kalmatoff only has eleven professional fights.
Lee Woods said in the ring post fight, I would love for Eddie Hearn
and Mattchroom to put me in city grounds for Nottingham Forest football fame and lore
and have a stadium fight. I don't know realistically if that fight with Kalmatoff,
if that's it would be a stadium fight. But just the mere mention
of this, because you are diehard Nottingham Forest and again for people that may
not be familiar, they are listening to US English soccer or football as they
call it, is so passionate. It is something there's such allegiance to it
and you are such a fan of that football club. So the mere mention
of this. I know. I see the smile on your face as you're
percolating right now that the man brought that up. How realistic do you think
it is that he could have a stadium fight in that hallowed ground. If
you're a Nottingham Forest football or soccer fan, how realistic do you think that
is? I think, from a ticket sales point of view, entirely realistic.
And I think Lee Wood with the right opponent, definitely with the right
opponent in the opposite corner, could sell whatever that capacity is now not in
your Forest is one of the oldest football clubs in the world, formed in
eighteen sixty five and we've played at the city ground or the pitch in that
location since eighteen ninety eight. So it's a very historic club with a great
history and I am a die hard, lifelong fan. If those two stats
don't reveal it old to everybody, but I won't bore everyone with that.
It's a football stadium. It's not one of the biggest football stadiums in the
country. We're not talking Wembley, other Millennium Stadium or Tottenham or anywhere else
like that. It's about a thirty thousand football capacity. What the quacity would
be for a boxing match, I'd imagine similar less perhaps who knows, but
obviously that's a dream that's become a narrative in English. British boxing is the
stadium fight. Everyone wants it. Josh Warrington wanted it, Kyl Frampton wanted
it, Anthony Joshua has made it a regular occurrence, and Kyl Froch has
wanted it. And they've all done it, Tony Bell. You I can
go on and on and on listing them. So Leewood wants his piece of
that. And with the way that Nottingham Forest is a football club, very
boyant and happy place at the moment, I don't think you'd have any trouble
selling now. The problem we've got, of course, is timing. He
said himself five years of old age. He's probably only got a couple of
fights at this kind of peak performance that he's found left in him. We've
just finished the normal football season here in the UK. Boxing fans were not
following the British Premier League. I have to remember that not everyone in the
entire eight billion people follows, although we're often told they are that, and
we've only got a very short break. They will be back playing fixtures again
first week of August, so we are a very short window. Now,
Lee would turn this fight around in twelve weeks. Whether it's conceivable that you
could turn around another opponent in that time or less in a football stadium and
all preparations that come with that seems unlikely. So a window is winning August
mid August or do they start playing games the football for nothing? For us,
we're playing Premier League fixtures. I do like saying that the first week
of August, so it's almost completely unless you're going to turn and right around
on sixty days. Notice, it's almost unrealistic to believe you're gonna be in
that team unless is there a window and this sometimes happens rarely. I mean
they're not going to do it in the National Football League, which is our
American football, where during a season they would have a concert, let's say,
on an NFL stadium's grounds during the season, they're not going to do
that. So do you believe that Forest and and those that administrate it would
would say, hey, we're not going to even if we had an off
window week or ten days, we're not putting a boxing ring and hundreds and
thousands of people on the pitch, on the field during a season. That's
the roadblock figure table, right. You know, other stadiums have got alternative
ways. Tottenham can work around it. They've got a a American football pitch
that slides in. They can do the whole manner of different magic that they
can do, because they did that with the Joshua Will fight. Right.
Yeah, the the first Joshua Will fight was a September fight, if I
recall, and they were able to do that during the British football season.
If if if there's a window between fixtures, we're not in focus playing away.
We don't want to borrow everyone with Premier League, that's not why they're
here. If there's a window, I suppose it's conceivable. But then we're
back into the weather, We're back into that, we're further north only by
a couple of three hours, but we're you know, it's it's a slightly
different equation, I guess. So to get back to your question, what
seems more conceivable to me is that if lee Wood can do an end of
year fight this year in a normal arena, hold onto his belt, not
lose, then maybe a May, June, July fight next year, that
the noting Forest Stadium could be his swan song, the big crescendo that he's
after. I see that sounds entirely more plausible to me, particularly given that
he's had two Although this was a relatively easy fight, He's had two tough
camps, two tough fights in a three month period. You would imagine a
fight in October, November, December, even and then May June. Sounds
a more modern day, should we say, timetable, although we do applauding
for his courage in taking that fight to over turn around from getting knocked out
on or stopped at least. We spend much of our lives waiting waiting for
someone to talk to. Thank you for holding waiting in line next and waiting
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that inspires, Yeah, you and I are contemporaries in that regard where hey,
we remember in the eighties and even into the nineties when fighters would fight
three times a year, sometimes they would fight four times a year, meaning
they were in the ring every ninety or one hundred and twenty days. Now
we get to the ridiculous parts of oh, I'm good after one for twelve
months. I'm good, as I've said many times, and I'll use it
as a regular comment. It's a joke that I tell to myself, really,
because no one listens or cares. But when they're now Spence Crawford for
July or whatever it is, and my only response is sending me a text
when they're walking to the ring or when the bell rings, because I'm sick
of talking about it. I don't want to talk about a charlot that's not
fought for four hundred days and still consider whatever champion of whatever body, of
whatever division he claims to be in, because he's to me, he's not
in that division, and he's not he's not a professional fighter. So yes,
it drives me to distraction. I don't wake up on Sunday mornings with
headaches and punches in the head. I don't have to starve myself to make
whatever weight they make, all the sacrifices. It's entirely up to them.
But unfortunately that's the era we live in and it's not healthy for the sport
or for them in terms of creating great historic legacies. Butos they get paid
very well these days, most of the top guys. So I understand why
they're not fighting three four times a year. Yeah, but let's let's see
him be at least somewhat active, like credit to would credit to a know
for quicker turnarounds and getting and Lara two. He could he could have turned
this down and said no, I don't want it yet, I wanted further
later in the year, or they all got on with it and some credit
for that and we'en I'll lose. We mustn't discard the loss. We must
stick by them too, because they've been willing to have a go and fight
more frequently. You're listening to the conversation with the boxing writer David Payne.
He's at the Boxing Writer on Twitter, finding it boxing writer dot co dot
uk as his website. David has been gracious to be getting me wisdom an
insight on and off the mic for the better part of four plus years,
frequent guests here on the podcast and the podcast feed you get. You gave
me a great segue to Laurence o'coley and the Upset by Chris Billham smith Man.
It's a trilogy, It's a trifecta. This is three for three here
on British Championship fight cards that we're reviewing with you. So I backed Billam
Smith. I backed him on our bet Us show, Big Dan did not
have Billam Smith that ends up cashing. Congratulations, congratulations on that pick well,
and the blind squirrel does find the nut every once in a while,
and even while blind. But I really believed in him that especially being able
to go to the route that he would be able to out tough o coley.
I had belief in him and he pulled it off. Give me your
thoughts on what you saw as he became w BO CRUI Away Champion. What's
your insight, Well, it's gonna it will appear unkind perhaps what I want
to say about Billiam Smith. But there's been a lot of commentary on the
disappointment of a Colt and the maddening performance delivered by Cole. But I found
Billiam Smith's performance. Yes, he was durable, Yes he stayed in there,
he didn't make any stupid mistakes. But I didn't see a great deal.
I saw a very mediocre performance from him. To be honest, he
just he didn't make mistakes, which I suppose is to his great credit.
But I saw a big, strong, tough guy walking forward without throwing a
jab very often. It kind of Coley just sat with his one fist on
his head hoping to land a big right hand, and really Bill and Smith
didn't give him the opportunity. Again, to his credit, he was fit,
he was strong, he took the shots that coal he got through.
He hung in there, he didn't panic, But I didn't. I didn't
see a tremendous offense. I didn't see. I don't see a great fighter.
I don't he's a world champion. He'll be able to say that forever,
and this multi belt era that we live in, you'll be able to
say that forever. And I don't want to see him unkind because I know
his backstory, I know where he's come from, and I know the story
around his family and everything that's going on at the moment. So I don't
want to see him kind. But I didn't see a tremendous performance from Bill
and Smith. Sorry, but he did enough to win, which is what
you're saying without saying he did enough to win. And Dan was more in
the criticism of o'cole on what was the strategy and what was the game plan
beyond just try to land the haymaker right and then if it doesn't land,
lean in and grab him, because my god, my god, it was
it was ten times, it was twenty times, David on land or not
with the right hand and grab him, hug him, mug him. And
one of our favorite topics of discussion, your referee McDonald, Marcus McDonald was
rightfully getting in between and warning him and penalizing him, and I thought,
maybe even contemplating disqualifying him enough is enough with doing it dance dance thing was
disappointment on there doesn't seem to be a real plan here and didn't seem I
too, was our two was very very disappointed with the COLEI but not entirely
surprised either. I think he has been I think he is u a real
curious sagg of a fight to people talk about Si and his length, a
curus away at six foot five. He looks like someone who's waiting to go
to heavyweight. But I think his footwork is awful. Maybe I'm not the
best judge. I think he crosses over his feet. I think he leaves
his back foot behind. I think he's messy. I think he tries to
It's like a thought strikes him that he needs to, Oh, I need
to move my feet, I need to dance a bit more like I'm pretending
to be something I'm not. Just I just think he's all over the place.
He's like a confection of confidence and self doubt, of styles of just
I mean, there were times when he looked like, right, he's going
to turn it on. There, he's going to knock this guy out because
he's realized he's just lost three points in two rounds. Yet didn't seem particularly
dazed. I know you felt one of the knockdowns was pretty severe, But
to me, I thought him while we're on the point. I thought him
at fourth round he was in trouble and Bildham Smith is maybe a little more
skilled like you're alluding to, or skilled fighter might have had hymn of there.
I just I just found someone so disorganized. He's almost tripping over his
own legs. I mean one of the knocks that were scored, I think
the one you referred to as contentious was he was kind of leaning forward,
stumbling and just trying to hold on because that's what he does to anything he
could grab him. Before he knew it, he was holding onto his shins
and his calves and how did I get down here? I know I'm holding
something, but it's just it might as well have been a ring poster.
It just awful, awful, And the most lucrative fight for Bill and Smith
is probably the rematch at some London venue, I guess, and he'd probably
be wise to take it, subject to who else is around a cruise aweight,
But and Nacholie might come out and be completely different in a rematch.
I mean people comparing to Henry Ack and Wandy BlimE me, Herry Hack and
Wandy was fighting Lennox Lewis. Let's know that he's choke and cheese and just
yeah, bewildered, to be honest, bewildered. And I know the scoring
is your voice went even higher than Steve bums Is at one point talking about
the scoring, and night I got a little I got a little animated,
because again we got an American judge that couldn't figure it out. And then
Rayfiels sending me the scorecards off the air, and I'm like, Rayfield,
the scorecards don't make sense when you look at them, because a couple of
the judges your your referee judge slat referee slash judge, Bob Williams from the
UK, he got it right with his math, but the American judge looked
like something out of grade school over here with trying to figure out the cards.
So it was not it was not good. But the right guy won,
I thought, Bill him, I imagine if you're sitting here, imagine
if you're sitting here and swim out, that's a draw. Yes, because
and and and I'm sorry on Benjamin Rodriguez's card, He's got it. Eight
rounds for Oro Coley. Oh Coley did not win eight rounds of that fight,
even even tactically, much less with the points off, the point deductions
and the knockdowns. He didn't win eight rounds. So that was that was
interesting to me. And I'm curious about the rematch um as well. And
maybe we will see that by the fall again, and who knows, I
mean, who knows, maybe he'll Coley knocks him out in the rematch,
but Billiam Smith had a really bad cook to me, so that's going to
take some time to heal before he can train Inspire again, and he needs
to digest what he's just done a guest to some extent, and they'll need
to negotiate where that rematch is going to be a Collie has sold tickets in
London, but he's not a fun favorite and he's not a TV fighter,
and Saturday didn't do a great deal to improve that kind of there's a morbid
curiosity almost now, I would think, rather than he genuine interesting seeing him
fight again. I think, I commented on Twitter, if I've never seen
him fight again, it maybe too soon at least. But sometimes you're telling
the truth. At least they don't refer to us. I don't think as
a morbid curiosity for listening to us here as part of the Big Fight Weekend
podcast feed, and we're recapping the weekend with David Payne. All right,
let's get to the main entree here. Now, enough enough with the advertisers.
So Raphael went roll in, as I like to say, head first
off the high dive into the deep end. He says Rocky three not only
the best of the Rocky series, but the best boxing movement movie of all
time, best of all time, best boxing movie of all time, and
the first ten minutes the best opening to any movie ever. I mean,
there's hyperbole, and then there's my man Rayfield just going bonkers with all of
this. All right, where do you come down on the stallone boxing movie
series and where Rocky three belongs and where does it belong amongst other boxing movies,
whether you're talking Raging Bull like he mentioned, he mentioned the Contender or
I'm sorry, Cinderella Man he mentioned with Russell Crowe, which is fantastic,
which is based on the historically really bad about Max Buyer, isn't it well?
Right? And and again based on I don't like you for that reason?
But I understand, well, we didn't even we didn't even get into
the two thousand and four, the year before Cinderella Man, the Hillary Swank
film Million Dollar Baby with Clint Eastwood and Morgan Freeman and Hillary Swink which one
Best Picture, which Hillary Swink one for Best Actress. That's a phenomenal boxing
film, all right. With all of that being said, where do you
come down on Rocky in the series and the claim that it's the best boxing
movie ever of any of them? What say you boxing? Right? Okay,
all right, Well it's pretty loaded now, isn't it. But I
think I can't depart from the wider consensus that Rocky ones the best of them
that were Rocky thank you? Yeah, the first film sanity restored, however,
to just to put some splinters in my backside from the fence between you
two heavyweights, I'll I will also say that I think to some extent there's
a little bit of depends on your age when you saw the one in the
cinema. So your couple of years you've two old me perhaps, and you
have memories are going to sit on. Dan has memories of going to see
Rocky three at cinema. I don't, but I do going to see Rocky
four at cinema, and I remember that being a major event in my life.
I remember hearing about it from people who've seen it before me, who
virtually quoted the whole thing to me, page for pages. It was shot
by shot, so Rocky was a big one. But we had disappeared a
little bit into Schmoltz by then, hadn't we It was one long training montage.
Rocky three is very good, and Dan made a bloody compelling case today.
To be honest, there are some brilliant bits in that, and mister
T is absolutely fantastic as some sort of off the scale Joe Fraser or whatever
he was kind of the number of his idea of his character was coming from.
But have you ever heard the story of Housetallone discovered him? How he
was actually discovered for television. He had been what we call a bouncer or
an enforcer at night clubs, at dance clubs, and he competed in a
reality show. This is forty plus years ago of reality TV, where a
television network here, NBC television network, very famous, very prominent, was
doing a series of different competitions and they did a segment America's Toughest Bouncer and
mister T m Chicago was one of those people. And Stallone is watching the
show. This is at the time he's filming Rocky two, and it filmed
Rocky two and they put Rocky two out and he calls the head of NBC
the network and says, how do I find the guy quote with the mohawk,
the haircut, how do I find him? Because they were toiling with
who could be the villain In the third one, they actually were toying with
Ernie Shavers believe it about the Acorn, and I read some on this didn't
know it that they just did not feel like Shavers could pull it off because
the voice was too high pitched. He didn't come off as as being a
villain voice, and mister T could play that off with prediction, pain,
all the different things that he was saying, the feather earrings that you know
everything. Obviously there's probably in the background in somewhere in still loans, subconscious
and christ I'm reaching now, aren't I? But the Shavers to mister T,
there's probably the Haggler in the back of his mind as the ultimate bad
guy at that time, and so distinctive the way that he looked, so
that probably informed the Acorn as a possible And then from there you make a
leak to to mister T, who, as you say, made a TV
career out of it as well, and was absolutely fabulous in that film.
I mean, what a character and what what what performance he gave for a
debut in what order do you put Raging ball with Lamata, Cinderella Man,
Million Dollar Baby, and maybe you even like some of the other nostalgia from
somebody somebody up there likes me. Yeah, that's in the black and white.
I know we're going away with it. That's a black and white.
But what are you what You haven't even mentioned Dickstown yet, Diggstown. Yes,
we're not gonna. We're not gonna say, play it to the Bone
with Woody Harrelson and Antonio banderas the Great White, the Great White hype.
There's a colony from the nineties. Yeah, Dickstown, of course was called
Midnight Sting I believe over here. Okay, Yeah, I enjoyed the absurdity
of that film. But there were some great lines in that too, obviously,
James Wood and Lucas Junior from Correct Yes, yeah, I don't know
where I placed Rookie in the pantheon of boxing movies. Um, Raging Bullies
a difficult watch. Um, Jay Lamottter was a difficult man. Um.
That's probably the kindest presentation of his of his history you can have. So
sometimes it's hard to love something that's so difficult, And I think that's why
there's so much passion and love for the Rookie series, and then because he
was the the underdog, so we love him, don't we. M So
he's probably it would be hard, and certainly in terms of influence and impact
the number of fighters even now, but certainly of of of me growing up
getting involved in boxing. In the late nineties two thousands, they were still
referring to the Rocky so he'd look at the back of the boxing magazines or
who's year here, or that they wouldn't sometimes say Rocky as their inspiration as
to why they put pair of gloves on a wild buster. Douglas upset of
Mike Tyson on the cover of the famous Sports illustrated in the US says Rocky
lives. That's the cover. Didn't mention Douglas's name, didn't mention Tyson's name.
I know exactly. I mean, he's it's a creation, but one
of the most famous fighters of all time, if that's if that's a possible
kind of oxymoron, But yeah, it's um You're not not sure burns the
right word either, but you'll forgive me. It's light here, but you
know what I mean. The funny he is just a cartoon creation in a
way. But and yet I had such an influence and impact. And I'm
sure those those trains that the music is still played in gyms. I'm sure
absolutely it's Yeah, it's unending. And obviously the creation I was in the
car. I was in the car earlier today before you and I have spoken,
and I'm turning radio stations. I'm talking to somebody on the phone on
the bluetooth, driving safely, hang that up. I'm turning radio stations,
and I have the Tiger came on, and that obviously begins the third movie,
and it's synonymous with that movie and the whole eye of the Tiger mantra
from Apollo Creed. So there's just you know, there's not going to be
an image of you and me in the high socks running down the beach and
jumping up and down and hugging. And Raphael got that image in my head
as well. We're not ever going to do that like Rocky and Apollo did
there. I don't think we look as quite as good in the vests.
T J. You have to give me a few week's notice. At least
you call them this. We call them like tank tops or muscle shirts or
arm shirt. Yes, I don't know. I don't think I belong in
that either, probably not in that category. All right, listen, great
stuff here Again. We encourage you to find David at the Boxing Writer on
social media on Twitter at the Boxing Writer, also boxing writer dot co dot
uk. Did we leave anything out? Anything else or are we good here?
In the just one last last comment and he did cover this too,
but I think of great deal. Congratulations to Terry Harper for her performance at
the weekend to have gone from fighting one of the biggest names in women's box
in history the week before, getting colder from the morning of the fight,
and she stays focused enough to beat a very good replacement handily and sets herself
up hopefully some big fights in the future. She tends to go under the
radar a little bit, Terry from up and don't cast to my hometown.
I'm getting all the references in today, but she's developed incredibly under stephy Ball
deserves a huge amount of credit for keeping it together and not throwing out whoever
it was put in front of it, and not wanting to do it and
waiting for that bractas fight. So credit to her. Someone else was willing
to make a sacrifice to keep a fight on and keep the show moving alone,
So I'll just throw that in at the end. But thanks for inviting
me always, TJ. Good to talk to you, and hopefully sometime soon
we'll talk to you about a Tyson Fury opponent. If that ever materializes.
Before our children are out of the house and have given us grand babies,
will find it's only a matter of time before one of us gets called out.
I mean, I'm happy to sign a contract for a lot less than
most papers. We'll see when he's back. We'll see if Usk and Dubois
happens later in the summer. I always love the inside of the boxing writer.
Thank you, David Payne. Our pleasure, and we thank you for
listening a special bonus edition of the Fight Preach United recap podcast. Followers subscribe
Google podcast, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get those as where you're
rock along now into the month of June. David was great to be with
me. I'm merely TJ. Reeves Dan back with me in the preview mode
later this week on this podcast feed. For now, we're good bye.