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Well, hello and welcome to Hobby
Hotline, episode three hundred and six.

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Honored to be part of part of
this one to my depending on what side

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you're sitting on next to me is
Horatio and in square, I think we

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got doctor James Beckett. How are
you guys doing today? Great? Doing

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good, doing, good day.
We got some people already in the chat

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room, Mad City, good morning, good morning, and Chris, we're

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your favorite peeps, get new friends. We're not that exciting, but we

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appreciate the compliment. Guys, it
seems like a kind of a quiet,

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interesting time in the hobby. But
there's a couple of pieces of I think

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news one specifically with PSA that we'll
get to. But Ruben says, great

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to see doctor Beckett. Oh and
Danny too, Thank you, Ruben.

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The card is in the mail.
The I want to start out with actually

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the top Shot, because that's got
a little bit of depth to it.

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I owned a top shot for the
fun of it that I bought a couple

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more for the fun of it.
I never did it thinking I would open

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a pack and get a huge card
just like real packs. But I think

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I finished with five or six top
shots after I sold them, but now

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they've been accused or found guilty and
have a settlement to reimburse Top Shot owners,

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saying the top Shot platform was a
security platform and uh, not proper

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to do what they were doing.
The big settlement is four cents per moment,

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so you know, you'd have to
own a lot of moments to get

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any money back out of this.
I think I've got about a quarter coming

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back that I'll have to pay taxes
on. We'll say, Horatio, I

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know you are a big Top Shot
fan. What do you think of this?

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You know, they are a couple
of things that went in with part.

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Part of the settlement says that from
going forward that plaintiffs can't call NFT's

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Top Shot moments securities anymore. So
that's part of the settlement. So what's

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funny is kind of like we're settling
that these were unsecured, you know,

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securities, unregistered securities, but moving
forward, we're not gonna call them securities

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anymore. We can't call them securities
anymore. The plaintiffs camp and it's four

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million dollars for me, it's a
it's a drop in the bucket. For

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Dapper Labs. It's kind of gets
them to move away from some of the

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things that they did wrong in the
past. They froze the accounts of account

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holders, you know, for a
long time. There's a long period of

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time there where we couldn't get any
money out. It was like a two

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three you know, a month period
where you couldn't get anything out. So

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I think that's to me, that's
the most important thing. I think four

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cents a moment is kind of kind
of a joke, So it's more of

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like a slap on the risk kind
of deal. It's more of a like

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a negative publicity for for Top Shot. I like, I still am a

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fan of top Shot, even though
having bought a moment in quite some time

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there. I think that digital collectibles
have a future. That's just me.

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Uh it's more I get it.
You could just kind of clip a little

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bit of a YouTube, you know, video, and it's yours. But

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we could say that about so many
other things. You know, I could

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say, you know, I could
get a copy of the Mona Lisa right

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and hang it up in my living
room. It doesn't mean I own the

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Mona Lisa. And we can go
deeper and deeper into these kind of you

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know, rat holes, But Dapper
Labs is the license holder for these moments.

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You know, NBA has given them
the license, and there's a certain

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gravitas to and they're going to have
pull as long as they have that license,

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they're going to have that pull for
collectors. About here, what do

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you think of a top shot?
I'm sure you bought thousands and thousands of

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moments. I'm famous for saying that
I'm more worried about FOE than fo m

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O. I don't want embarrassed,
and I'm going to miss out. I

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have a good friend that's very savvy, and he took a pretty strong position

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in top shot. But what he
did is he immediately zero costed what he

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had. In other words, when
the stuff went up double, he sold

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half of it. So now what
he has left is he has zero kind

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of zero in it, even though
he really doesn't have zero in it.

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But it's like that. But so
Horatio, you're saying you get to keep

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your stuff. It's just they're getting
a slap on the wrist. This is

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a penalty where they have wronged the
holders of these not securities, and so

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to not call them securities anymore,
this is their penalty. And then and

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you keep your stuff. But it's
still it wasn't a difficult platform. I

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mean, it wasn't it. The
securities aspect is they were like holding your

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money and you couldn't get your money
out very easily. Isn't that And how

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has that changed? Was it just
the words they're not allowed to use.

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Yeah, So as far as like
this settlement, right, and there might

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be some other lawsuits that other people
kind of get together and kind of go

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against Top Shot or Dapper Labs,
but yeah, this settlement basically says moving

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forward, you know you whoever accepts
the settlement, we can't then go and

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claim as another part of the settlement
that those are securities or unregistered securities.

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So that kind of blocks you out
from other lawsuits. Right. But like

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you mentioned before, I think that
the biggest deal was, and they're also

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settling that for a long time users
couldn't get their money out of the platform.

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And to me, that was the
biggest mistake that they made, or

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the big is kind of problem that
they had. It just didn't seem right

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and you couldn't you coundt understand why. So a lot of times people were

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selling their moments for two three,
four thousand dollars and it was stuck in

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this digital wallet, you know,
this on their blockchain, you know,

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they used the Flow blockchain, and
then you couldn't you couldn't get it out.

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So it didn't really matter if you
were if you were selling, because

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you could you didn't have access to
your money. Eventually that did get resolved,

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but it took a while. Yeah, nobody's accusing them of stealing the

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money. It's just it was like
a security but not really. And in

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the stock market, when you settle
up, you get your money packed pretty

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pretty quick. And so the fact
that they weren't was a was it I

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guess it's only a PR problem.
Yeah, it is a PR illegal,

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but it wasn't illegal in terms of
like holding the money holding the money.

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Yeah, I mean I think that
they said that a couple of people also

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couldn't get their money out because depending
on the state you were in. Here's

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a problem. It was crypto.
Basically, what you were doing is you

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were deal with cryptocurrency flow, and
so what they were saying was, well,

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your status kind of doesn't have a
really good regulations or laws regarding cryptocurrency

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and how we can transfer this stuff
between you know, a digital wallet,

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like the whole of digital crypto or
a regular bank account. So they're kind

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of their thing was that they're working
on those regulations. They're working on not

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violating any laws involving cryptocurrency. And
that's what allowed them to kind of hold

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onto that money, or that was
their reason for holding onto the money is

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they didn't want to run a file
any any laws in any particular state.

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So for example, me in New
York State, I didn't have access that

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money for months, and even when
you did, you have to pay like

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a big penalty. You know,
you have to pay like a forty dollars

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fee to get your money out of
the out of the account. It was

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it was a bit of a Yeah, it's a bit of a wild West

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involving crypto, you know, digital
collectibles. And now the funny thing is

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me and Dannie were talking, you
know, we're getting four cents back a

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moment, which is like you said, it's just negative publicity, but you're

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not getting it back. You're you're
getting it's it's found money. You're keeping

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your moments. I'm not surrendering your
moments. You're not running your moment place

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ratio for it's not Dapper Lab's fault
that they were premature, that the state

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regulations were not in place. They
had a pretty good idea, but in

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the execution they got blocked by certain
states being behind and they maybe thought things

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were going to happen very quickly.
But so you're kind of defending them,

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I think, Uh, I mean
that, I'm just looking at it from

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their perspective. You know, I
could say, because listen, I bought

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a couple of NFTs, and these
were NFTs, there was no roadblock like

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that. Uh, you know,
if you're buying an NFT from wherever,

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you know, from from open Sea, let's say. And I don't know

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if that rings about anybody. I
don't know if I'm losing listeners. But

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if you buy an NFT from open
Sea, which is one of the bigger

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NFT marketplaces out there, and you
have a digital wallet, that stuff comes

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in and out, you know,
within seconds, and so if you're top

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shot and you're using a blockchain flow
blockchain, it wasn't compatible with too many

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other digital wallets. That's the other
thing. So, yes, they were

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early, but they should have been
able to kind of had the mechanisms or

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the structures to kind of you know, get this stuff in and out quickly.

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They did have all the structures for
getting stuff in, they didn't have

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structures for getting it out, including
your money. So if you did want

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to cash out, that was the
problem. So they made it easy to

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get in, difficult to get out, and that there's a lot of grumbling

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about that. Well, it's also
one of those things where if you don't

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have a marketplace of buyers, it's
going to be self destructing anyway. So

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people have to have confidence in the
platform, and I think that's one of

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the bigger things that happens with this
settlement. Well, second, secondary market,

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yes, good point, secondary market
buyers, yep. They made it

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easy to come in. A lot
of hub and hey, this is going

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to be great. But the secondary
market is what's critical in any collectible field.

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Otherwise it's just a trinket. If
it's only one person buys it.

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There has to be some exchange afterwards
and a market made and if that has

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a lot of friction, and this
was extreme friction. You had to wait

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a long time. I mean it's
like grading. You're sending your cards in

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for grading, and if you got
to wait a year to get them back,

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if it was supposed to be thirty
days. Then people will be frustrated.

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I want to get caught up.
I asked in the chat room if

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anybody had actually bought an NFT or
excuse me about a top shot specifically and

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pretty much low usage. I think
we were for seven or for eight on

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responses, so that top shots and
dapper labs it might might have some work

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to do. There's one comment real
quick that I think, and this is

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I may cull for not starting off
with this. Orlando Cepeda Uh rest in

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peace. He did pass away yesterday, and the great Giant, the first

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designated hitter in Red Sox history.
UH had a lot of leg problems,

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but UH made the Hall of Fame
to the Veterans Committee and for a period

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of time was as good of a
power hitter as I probably was in the

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National League. Either of you have
thoughts on a suppeta. I'm going to

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do a tribute to him. I
think maybe later today. You know,

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I think it's it's really tricky when
I figure out when I on my podcast,

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if I do a tribute, but
then if I don't do a tribute,

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does that mean I didn't like the
guy who he's not hobby worthy.

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I mean Orlando Cepeda, you know, comes in through the Veterans Committee.

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But as a guy who sought him, saw him play, he was a

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feared, feared hitter, and so
so I'm gonna I'm going to gather my

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thoughts and do something about that.
He's very worthy Hall of Famer, no

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question about that, but he's probably
in that middle rank. Was I mean

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a hard time getting at this.
He's not he's not the not the absolute

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best, and he's not the worst. He's a legit Hall of Famer,

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but he's he's in the middle.
Yeah, as always said, superstar.

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As a superstar, I always say, not everybody can be baby bird.

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That doesn't make you not not a
Hall of Famer. But they they made

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him wait for non baseball reason.
Yes, and in today's world it might

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be silly even Horatio. Uh.
Did you know much about Sappada before the

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tributes? I mean he was a
West Coast guy, so a lot of

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East Coast people, I think were
not as familiar with him. What do

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you what do you know about Seppaedo? And have you seen any of the

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tributes? Yeah, I mean my
introduction to baseball was you know, the

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obvious greats like uh, you know, Willie May's baby, Hank Karen,

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and then my dad was teaching me
about the game. And then the next

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was all the Latino greats, you
know, the early Latino greats. So

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uh Sapaedo was one of them,
Marshall, Tony Perez. Uh he grew

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up with watching the Big Red Machine
with Dave Concepcion and all those guys.

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So uh, Subpada was always a
name that you know, I admired,

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uh, you know, along with
other other Latino American you know, Latino

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players that were out there, so
uh, big name, uh not.

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I don't collect Supaida, but I've
always admired his game. I know there's

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a big power hitter. And my
dad always just said that, you know,

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these were these were guys that could
play in today's game and destroy the

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picture that you know that he was
talking about the modern day pictures. So

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that's my That's as much as I
know about Cepada. You know, I

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know that him and Clemente were close. I know Clemente was a big influence

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on him, and and and then
and in return, so was he and

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uh so Clementa being one of my
heroes Uh, I got to know a

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little bit more about you know,
I wrote about Cippada quite a bit.

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Cibpada was the second Puerto Rican Hall
of Famer and if you look at the

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gap between Clemente and Cupaida, there
was there was a couple of decades in

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there. So, uh, you
know, good, good to see that

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changing in the more recently, Doctor
Beckett, you are getting lots of free

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marketing here says your podcast is a
must listen. You can't get that access

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information analysis anywhere else, well except
for here from Rookie. Let me respond,

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It's say, Mookie Chilson's comments to
me are a must read. He's

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always got interesting things commenting or or
sending me stuff. So I enjoy his

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response to the things that I'm doing. So it's nice to know when somebody

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appreciates what you're doing. So thank
you, Mookie. And vintage il ballcard

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says, I've been enjoying Doctor Beckett's
father in some videos. I think a

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lot of fun, a lot of
fun. I mean, that's it's a

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tradition now for four or five years
that I picked three or four hobby fathers

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and sons, and it's it's it's
unpredictable, Danny. You know when you

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get well, start with the Newman's
where I did a three for with them.

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So that's been a lot of fun. But that's that's during the Father's

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Day weeks. Very cool. A
couple more hellos or and a shout out

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to his channel as well. Uh
he did a great Negro league said video,

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So a shout out there somebody,
uh Azoka Tom he has a top

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shot. So just you know,
Horatio, I wanted to throw that out

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there so you weren't alone. And
I told you, I think I have

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one left or two left, so
I don't want to I don't wanna lie

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about that, Horatio. You can't
trade with him. You could talk about

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your experience, but there you have
to be intermediated by the platform, and

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00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:56,440
so the camaraderie of a private sale
or a trade or something. I think

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these digital collectibles are difficult. The
blockchain, with the chain of custody,

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it's it's it's it's not like other
collectibles, no doubt. I mean,

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I think the speed bumps to the
future are plenty, but I think there

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is a future there. Sepeda was
the terror in sixty seven. Yes,

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Orlando Seppetta used a heavy bat I
have game used that is close to thirty

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six ounces. Love watching him hit. You know, it's funny. The

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00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,480
approach to hitting has changed a lot
on the size of the bat you use.

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It used to be, you know, the bigger, the bath,

227
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,480
the farther, one type of thing, and now it seems to be changing

228
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,360
U exit velocity. Yeah, and
the and the barrels in the woods are

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getting so hard there that they're breaking. It's also part of it. Cource

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00:16:48,679 --> 00:16:55,039
equels mass times acceleration, so you
get more acceleration with less mass or greater

231
00:16:55,159 --> 00:16:57,679
mass and less acceleration, you still
get a lot of force. Speida hit

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a heavy ball, heavy bat.
He smashed. It makes sense. He

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was the first dah for somebody.
I mean he he by then his h

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his legs were worse more than gone
Clint cheap shots. Is bat speed with

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without a doubt, you know,
Hank Aaron was known for his wrist now

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word saying, hitter's got to turn
on faster. Pitching absolutely, probably,

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Paul Schemes was not was not pitching
in sixty seven. And is there a

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00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,200
cupade on the wall behind you,
doctor Beckett? That's not the panel that

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00:17:38,279 --> 00:17:41,640
has the seas. But there is
a there is a cupada, there is

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all right. One of the things
that I think is one of the biggest

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stories in quite some time. And
I don't know if I'm blowing this out

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of the water, but uh,
he has a greater notes. I think

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this is an interesting turn, and
grating grades were something I always liked,

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and this is taking it to the
next level of actually being told you know

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what to look for, doctor Beckett. You know, subgrades, greater notes,

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your thoughts on the extra details.
Yeah, newsflash, BGS had subgrades

247
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:25,960
twenty five years ago. But this
is an excellent move on the part of

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00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,960
PSA. I mean, they've got
up charges, they've got market leadership,

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they've got a lot of things people
can talk about and be griping about.

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00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,960
This is something I think everybody is
pleased, and I hope they do it

251
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,920
for all the cards. But it's
an additional expense, and it also suggests

252
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:48,519
an additional scrutiny of the cards and
taking longer with the cards to make the

253
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notes. So this is positive.
I think anything that provides an educated buyer

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to know what they're buying is good
for long term health of the hobby.

255
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So hats off to PSA. I
would say, I wish they'd done it

256
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,279
sooner, but they respond to the
market, and they responded very well to

257
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the market. So this is market
leadership to hear their customers. I think

258
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,319
they've done the right thing. And
just to clarify, greater notes for every

259
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,160
card graded, well right now they're
introducing No, no, they're not doing

260
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,319
that, but that's where it could
go exactly. People have hopes, but

261
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,559
you know, when you're paying big
bucks to get something graded, you'd like

262
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:32,440
to have more than just a number, you know, without a doubt.

263
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And I think especially with the dollar
values for some of the cards today,

264
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people get very worked up and certain
I think you get reputations as a grading

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company, and this hopefully, you
know, at least gives some explanation.

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00:19:45,839 --> 00:19:49,279
Now, the next step is if
you get feedback, you know, where's

267
00:19:49,319 --> 00:19:52,680
it coming from. Well, it's
coming from the actual grater and from the

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00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:56,960
article I read, they've been instructed
not to write a paragraph, but just

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00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,720
a quick note, you know,
dimple top, left corner, stuff like

270
00:20:00,759 --> 00:20:06,839
that, or ratio. What do
you think about this? Yeah, Like,

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00:20:06,839 --> 00:20:08,319
like doctor Becker said's a good thing. You know, a lot of

272
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other companies have followed to not BGS
is one of them. But even like

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newer companies like Rare addition, I
don't know if anybody remembers that grading company.

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You know, they had these very
solid slabs and you know, they

275
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had a bar code and you could
kind of scan it and then it would

276
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tell you exactly why the card got
the grade that it got. So like

277
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that was one of the selling points
for new grading companies was we're gonna tell

278
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,960
you why you got the grade you
got. So it's welcome that PSA has

279
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,759
kind of joined that joined that boat, right they said, you know,

280
00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:41,359
we're gonna do that as well.
It is interesting that you can't share like

281
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,160
even though you get it, like
you get the notes, like you can't

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00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,400
share that on any platform. You
can't share on eBay because that's considered proprietary

283
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,680
information. So that's part of their
terms and services. And I'm curious how

284
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:57,200
long that will last. I think
eventually that will also kind of be uh,

285
00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:00,200
you know, challenge and eventually,
you know, I'm thinking about maybe

286
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,279
in about a year, we will
be able to have the public information.

287
00:21:04,759 --> 00:21:08,200
So I'm wondering why I guess they're
holding off on that now. Maybe they're

288
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,920
just kind of trying to see,
you know, how the program kind of

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00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:17,480
unfolds and how much information they really
can give. But I think it's great.

290
00:21:17,519 --> 00:21:18,720
I think it's great. I think
everybody wants to know, Like how

291
00:21:18,759 --> 00:21:22,039
many times have you heard, not
me personally, but I've heard a bunch

292
00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:23,720
of people say, I don't see
anything wrong with this card. This looks

293
00:21:23,799 --> 00:21:29,680
minimum nine, should be a ten
business seven. And so I think that

294
00:21:29,759 --> 00:21:33,200
this gives clarity and this kind of
takes away a lot of confusion from the

295
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,160
hobby. Well, it also it
reduces their top line and it reduces their

296
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,079
bottom line. It reduces the top
line because when you get back your card

297
00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:44,599
and it's a nine, now you
know it's not a ten. They saw

298
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,119
it. They've got so you're not
going to send it back in and you've

299
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:55,880
gone to additional time and effort to
add cost to the grading of that card.

300
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,359
But they've added a mistique to it
ratio, I mean, by making

301
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,799
it only avail to the submitter,
then that just then the submitter's got an

302
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,640
edge on somebody else. I know, you know it's my card. I

303
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:15,400
have the inside scoop, and nobody
else knows that this is not a card

304
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,359
that could be resubmitted for a higher
grade because they've already now identified that has

305
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,000
that dimple in the upper left corner, and we won't get into what they

306
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,759
could do to solve that dimple,
so we'll leave that from what's going to

307
00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:32,599
happen is that somebody is going to
cross it over. They're going to get

308
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,920
a tin, and they're going to
thank Kurt's card care for eliminating the dimple.

309
00:22:38,319 --> 00:22:41,160
Well, you know, I mean, it's part of the reason.

310
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,240
You wonder if they're holding back on
the public notes, if that's the reason

311
00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:48,079
for now. But my understanding is
this is all in their software. They

312
00:22:48,079 --> 00:22:52,160
can flip a switch and make these
public. So I think you guys are

313
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,960
right. It's only a matter of
time till you put in you know,

314
00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:03,480
the barcode, and you'll get a
NACHA the stats on the card, but

315
00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:06,599
you'll get the greater notes with it
as well, and that'll be public.

316
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,640
Greater notes should be on the PSA
website. I think we agree we're heading

317
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:17,079
there. Orlando says, all greaters
do grading notes, but they never shared

318
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:22,559
the information from the article I read
in PSA. They only really entered it

319
00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:26,240
into the main system within the last
couple of years that they might have been

320
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,319
done in a different manner, but
as far as formalizing it digitally, which

321
00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:37,400
is the key today, that was
when they updated their software in the last

322
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,880
couple of years. I hope that
greater Notes speak to the positive qualities of

323
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,039
the card, not just the flaws. Well, I think, and maybe

324
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,839
I'm wrong. I thought it was
going to speak to anything that affected the

325
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:56,359
grading of the card, not being
at ten point of the question is the

326
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,200
way some people look at grading,
but not the way the companies look at

327
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,519
the grading. When you're auditioning for
graders, you're not to hire a potential

328
00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:11,720
grad You're not seeing if they can
notice the positive qualities of the card that

329
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,000
you're seeing, if they can notice
the flaws. So the whole process of

330
00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:21,599
grading is what is less than perfect, And since it's completely different orientation,

331
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,960
so perfect edges you know, they
you know, like I say, the

332
00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:33,160
report card evaluates each of those the
But to that question, it possible,

333
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:37,559
it's it's probably going to be the
case that the Greater Notes will not deal

334
00:24:37,759 --> 00:24:42,559
with all of the four subgrade type
categories. So they might not say anything

335
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:47,440
about centering if it's perfect, but
if it's off center. They may say

336
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,440
that if there's a problem with the
edges, there's not, they won't.

337
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,920
That won't be in the grater's notes. So that would be my guess.

338
00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:59,359
I always appreciated the subgrades on the
back of cards. Yeah there's breaking is

339
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,759
do what year that actually started?
Doctor Buckett? Ninety nine, so twenty

340
00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:08,559
five years later it would be at
the beginning. Yeah, I wasn't sure

341
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:11,720
if you had it right from the
beginning or not. We were we were

342
00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:18,640
slow getting started. We could have
started a year earlier, except one of

343
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:26,880
the key things that was the hold
up was developing and refining the process of

344
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:32,079
what the subgrades would translate into a
final grade, because it's not an average,

345
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:37,680
as people have eventually noticed. Obviously, if you get four nine fives,

346
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,119
you're gonna have a nine to five. But if you have three nine

347
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,839
fives and an eight point five,
that might be a nine. But it

348
00:25:44,839 --> 00:25:47,279
seems like it ought to be a
nine point twenty five or something, but

349
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,039
it's not. Is there a mathematical
algorithm or is it it's not mathematical.

350
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,880
It's not mathematical, is it what
the rumor has always been, you can't

351
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,559
be a half grade above the lowest
grade. That's what I was almost that's

352
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:02,839
aol. That is true most of
the time. I'm not sure it's true

353
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,440
all the time. Again, the
dilemma we had is that some of these

354
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:15,720
these rules don't apply equally in the
high end, you know, toward the

355
00:26:15,799 --> 00:26:19,680
mint, as a poor, as
toward the poor. If something's an absolute

356
00:26:19,759 --> 00:26:25,880
perfect card, except for a bullet
hole in the lower left corner, that's

357
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,680
a it's a ten ten ten one. And does that make it a one

358
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,440
point five Danny, I mean,
that's an I appeal card if you just

359
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,279
avoid it, just don't look at
the bullet hole. It's a baby hole,

360
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,160
maybe it's a pinhole, you know. So so again, as soon

361
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,559
as you make hard and fast rules, there can be exceptions. But that

362
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:49,440
that's the that's that's a basic principle. There's a couple of questions here,

363
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,359
and I just want to clean clear
some stuff up. What was the reason

364
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:59,079
for discontinuing the subgrades? Were they
discontinued? Not that I'm aware as option

365
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,960
you could, you have to you
do have to choose to pay for any

366
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,559
and again this was after me.
They allowed uh sort of a discount.

367
00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:11,559
You know, if you don't want
the subgrades. We won't charge you as

368
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,640
much that that was not under my
regime because I love the subgrades. I

369
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:21,039
think they're part of the part of
the service. Greater notes should say nice

370
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:22,960
things too, like quote, wow, this was a stunner. Also,

371
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:27,519
freight corner is not with stand,
so that's why you got a five.

372
00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:33,519
You know, Like that's the bullet
hole the bullet hole theory. You know,

373
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,319
everything's great, Just don't look at
the bullet bullet hole a mookie pinhole

374
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:45,759
card a tend withth hole. I'm
gonna start using that for having no hair

375
00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:49,200
in the back. Yeah, just
don't look at it and focus on everything

376
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,799
else. That's Maybe that's not better, I appeal Danny. It applies to

377
00:27:53,839 --> 00:27:57,920
hair too. Yeah, there you
go. Yeah, I've got other comments.

378
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:03,519
I'll leave off choice of cap exactly. You know, and having a

379
00:28:03,519 --> 00:28:07,039
big head doesn't help Horatio. You
have too much hair to be on this

380
00:28:07,079 --> 00:28:14,160
episode, I realized. But on
the Greater Notes, doctor Becky, can

381
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,519
you elaborate a little bit more on
the extra time it takes? Does it

382
00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:22,720
take extra time or would this be
internal information only? I'd like to say

383
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,720
it takes four times as long because
you're grading the card in four different ways.

384
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,640
It doesn't take four times as long, but it takes longer. I

385
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,119
think that's part of the marketing problem
that BGS has, is that they're probably

386
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:40,759
the slowest and most thorough graders.
And it's so again it needs to be

387
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:45,920
positioned, which it was originally is
kind of a premium service. It's kind

388
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,079
of a premium service. So yeah, it takes longer, but it means

389
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,720
attention to detail time was spent on
each of those four aspects. Horatio,

390
00:28:53,759 --> 00:28:57,039
if you had to pay for the
greater notes on a value submission, would

391
00:28:57,079 --> 00:29:00,759
you pay for the upgrade? Yeah? Absolutely. I think it gives me

392
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:04,079
any any any information I can have
you know, about my card. And

393
00:29:04,279 --> 00:29:07,000
I'm not thinking as a reseller or
anything like. I'm just thinking about,

394
00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:11,319
you know, I want to know
why I got what I got, So

395
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,200
I think that would help. I
think you know that that that PSA.

396
00:29:14,279 --> 00:29:15,319
It's almost like they have a rutbric
out there, right. They have their

397
00:29:15,319 --> 00:29:18,279
guidelines for grading. What what is
a ten? What is nine? So

398
00:29:18,279 --> 00:29:22,720
I always thought of it as a
rubric, and you know, very simply

399
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,319
just go through, does this card
meet the standards of a ten? If

400
00:29:25,359 --> 00:29:27,039
it doesn't doesn't meet the standars of
a nine and check check check. That'd

401
00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:30,720
be cool, you know, that'd
be an interesting thing. Like the centering

402
00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:34,039
isn't quite the you know, the
acceptable amount for a ten. There's no

403
00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:37,519
staining, there's no you know,
there's no paper loss whatever, so you

404
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:41,079
know, you move up to ps
A five. So I always thought that,

405
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,519
uh, that that guideline, those
those that PSA scale, it's very

406
00:29:45,519 --> 00:29:49,319
easy for people to follow if they're
able to get that as part of their

407
00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:52,519
feedback, you know that way,
like the collector and the greater speaking the

408
00:29:52,519 --> 00:29:56,440
same language. I wanted to put
this comment up. There can PSA grading

409
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,640
get stricter than it is now.
And doctor Becky, you touched on this,

410
00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:04,200
but does this effect the strictness of
the grating. Well, no,

411
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:10,079
it just means that it doesn't matter
for tens. And they don't have nine

412
00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:14,079
point five. So if they send
back a nine, they're gonna be able

413
00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:17,599
to tell the person of a good
card. They're gonna be tell them here's

414
00:30:17,599 --> 00:30:21,200
why it didn't get a ten.
And so that's not necessarily stricter. It

415
00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:26,640
just means they can't if they give
it a nine with no explanation as to

416
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,519
why it's a nine or something that
seems flimsy. I don't know, I

417
00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:34,920
mean, if it's but well here's
an example. Okay, so they'd got

418
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,759
a nine, but there was some
wax residue on the front of the card.

419
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,519
Okay, well then I'm gonna crack
it out and I'm gonna wipe off

420
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,200
with my finger, you know,
the tiny bit of wax residue that's on

421
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,680
the front of the card, and
then resubmit. And again that's a foreign

422
00:30:52,759 --> 00:30:56,160
substance, but it was something that
was not intended to be on the card,

423
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,480
that's on the card from the factory
because of the gum or wax,

424
00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:03,839
well, because of the wax of
the of the rapper. If it's a

425
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,599
vintage card, what would PSA take
that as a as a regrade. I'm

426
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,039
wondering, like you know, I'm
saying, like if the if they're able

427
00:31:11,079 --> 00:31:12,680
to have a digital footprint of the
card, right and they know that this

428
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,359
card has been greated and it's been
a nine before and now it's a ten,

429
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,160
I'm wondering, you know, where
the conflict there would be, Like

430
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,759
what would PSA accept it as a
would they be able to grate as a

431
00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:27,440
PSA ten. Well again, if
the greater notes say that they put it

432
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:33,039
a nine because it had uh,
you know, wax residue on the front

433
00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:37,400
of the card, I think PSA
would accept it. And if they wouldn't,

434
00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:41,599
I promise you s well. Sgc's
part of the PSA family. But

435
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:48,680
you know, or BGS or CGC
or any of them. It's it again.

436
00:31:48,759 --> 00:31:52,920
It depends on your definition of doctoring, and it depends on in our

437
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,880
industry. It's not okay for the
graders to improve the card that's sitting in

438
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,400
front of them, to tweak a
corner, to you know, wipe a

439
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:06,440
piece of dust off, perhaps,
even which I don't think is so bad.

440
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:13,079
But they're richia. They're articulating what
the problem was, and admittedly you're

441
00:32:13,119 --> 00:32:17,200
sending back in the same card and
they'll smell it. I think they're gonna

442
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,000
do a lot more smelling of cards
to see is there any foreign substance on

443
00:32:22,079 --> 00:32:25,519
there that remove that wax? If
you put use some chemical which you don't

444
00:32:25,599 --> 00:32:31,759
need to remove the wax, then
yeah you should get bounced. But microfiber

445
00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:36,960
doesn't have a smell, So if
you're just rubbing it off, then I

446
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:43,599
think that's easily something that should be
a no brainer that you can send through.

447
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,640
Mookie asked about us should they be
public. We touched on this a

448
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:51,000
little bit. I think we all
agree that at some point they will be

449
00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:54,359
public. But also right now it's
only for the Express level and up,

450
00:32:54,599 --> 00:33:00,359
which I think is one hundred and
twenty five dollars right now. So this

451
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,759
really seems like a toe in the
water type of thing. Work out the

452
00:33:02,839 --> 00:33:07,400
kinks. I think the last thing
they want is to have, you know,

453
00:33:07,559 --> 00:33:10,519
thousands of greater notes out there to
the public that are wrong or you

454
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:15,079
know, don't in some way do
what they want them to do. In

455
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,200
this way, they have a chance
to deal with that. One other thing

456
00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:23,279
that if you have full transparency,
which I'm not advocating for this for any

457
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:28,720
grading company, but if you also
knew not just the greater notes, but

458
00:33:28,759 --> 00:33:32,640
who the greater was. That's like
when you used to get in your pants

459
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,680
well partly well inspected by number forty
three, or they used to have who's

460
00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:44,200
number forty three? Then. But
I'm just saying that there's always this conspiracy

461
00:33:44,319 --> 00:33:49,839
or this theory of that certain grads
at certain companies are easier than others,

462
00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:53,759
more difficult, more experienced, more
veteran whatever. And so if you knew

463
00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:58,759
who was grading and what the greater
notes would be, you would you'd understand

464
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:02,079
the process. You can't really say
next time I submit, I don't want

465
00:34:02,079 --> 00:34:07,239
that guy, you know, that
doesn't work right. I want Jimmy.

466
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:10,719
Yeah, that'd be great. If
you could make a request on your submission.

467
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,280
I'd like Jimmy. He's good with
my corners, you know, or

468
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:22,639
something whatever. However, all grading
companies have certain graders that have greater affinity,

469
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:30,960
greater affinity toward certain times and sets
and companies and obscure stuff. I'm

470
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:37,000
guessing at p s A there's there's
a few graders that get the not every

471
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,199
grader gets the pre war cards.
For example, this is a this is

472
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:45,000
a good question. Uh are the
cards reviewed by two people? My understanding

473
00:34:45,079 --> 00:34:49,280
wasn't And maybe I'm wrong. Is
there's somebody who checks it from a macro

474
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,400
level after it's gone through a detailed
grade, either one of you familiar,

475
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:59,039
doctor Beckett. If there's a second
set of eyes at any point, I

476
00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:04,920
would hope and this, I you
know, BGS at above a certain price

477
00:35:05,039 --> 00:35:08,840
point, not the price of the
the price of the card based if a

478
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,760
card is one thousand dollars or more. Absolutely, there's got to be a

479
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,679
second person looking at it, and
not just the person that's doing the slabbing

480
00:35:16,679 --> 00:35:20,320
to say, oh, yeah,
that's the same guy that's the name on

481
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,159
the on the on the on the
on the on the label. Now there

482
00:35:23,199 --> 00:35:28,559
need to be there needs to be
a verification. A senior grader, two

483
00:35:28,599 --> 00:35:34,039
senior graders, even uh, depending
on the the value of the card and

484
00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:37,039
the and the rarity of the card. And I believe that happens. I

485
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,119
believe that it's just it's just good
sense. If something's a base card,

486
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,679
you know, and it's not very
expensive, then letter rip Ratt's got the

487
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,559
sports card shop two locations, got
us on the big screen. He wants

488
00:35:50,559 --> 00:35:53,519
to know what's the average time it
takes a greater to greater card. First,

489
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,760
I'll ask Ratio, what do you
think, because in my mind,

490
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,159
it should take you know, a
good five to ten minutes, but I'm

491
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:04,880
guessing it's nowhere near that. Maybe
I'm wrong. What's your what do you

492
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,199
think? No, I think it
takes fifteen to twenty seconds. With the

493
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,480
amount of cards that PSA is grading
and the number of graders that that had.

494
00:36:13,679 --> 00:36:15,639
That might change depending on how many
graders they've hired. But at one

495
00:36:15,639 --> 00:36:19,760
point, if you saw the numbers
from gem rate right there, you saw

496
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,119
how much how many cards PSA was
grading and you and you kind of had

497
00:36:22,119 --> 00:36:25,000
this awareness that they had somewhere between
one hundred and twenty one hundred fifty greaders,

498
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,280
and you were saying, you know, realistically, they can't be spending

499
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:35,159
more than thirty seconds on a card
on average. That's that's probably the correct

500
00:36:35,199 --> 00:36:37,519
answer. And I don't want to
ask doctor Beckett, but I wish it

501
00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:42,000
was the five to ten minutes doctor
Beckett. Roughly, how long does a

502
00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:45,320
greater spend with a card? I
did an episode with Greg Morris, a

503
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:51,119
couple episodes about a year ago,
maybe a year and a half ago,

504
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,599
and he can grade cards in two
seconds. Now. He's not putting a

505
00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:58,480
number on it, but he's put
it. He can. He makes piles

506
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,360
and by the words of grading and
he can do it. He is super

507
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:07,360
fast, and he puts it on
eBay with his you know vgx or x

508
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:12,920
mint or near mint mint plus whatever, and he's he says he can do

509
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,719
it in a couple seconds, so
it doesn't take very long. To get

510
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,199
your first impression, which is what
he goes with. But when you're paying

511
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:28,360
fifteen dollars to get something slabbed,
you're closer to what Horatio is saying.

512
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,840
It's not five or ten minutes.
It might be five or ten minutes if

513
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,679
it's a wagoner or a fifty two
tops mantle where you've got a whole bunch

514
00:37:34,679 --> 00:37:37,920
of people coming in and looking at
it. But for the run of the

515
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,199
mill card, it's it's it could
it's way less than a minute, and

516
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,880
I'll be on average, there's going
to be something. Well, I would

517
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,360
assume that a twenty five million dollars
on a wagoner or something like that would

518
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,239
have a lot of eyeballs and a
lot of time on it, where my

519
00:37:54,400 --> 00:38:00,880
Zion Base Pandemic card probably went pretty
quickly. Well. The other thing is

520
00:38:00,639 --> 00:38:05,519
that we haven't gotten into but in
the dynamic of it modern cards, which

521
00:38:05,559 --> 00:38:08,400
is why BGS was doing so great
and back in the day, is that

522
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:15,000
modern cards take a lot less time
than vintage cards. Modern cards you're trying

523
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,079
to figure out if it's a nine
point five or a nine with you know,

524
00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:21,719
with a vintage card it could be
five, six, seven, eight,

525
00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:29,920
you know, there's a lot more
finesse and and and it's just way

526
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:34,159
more difficult to do vintage. So
if you're doing a bunch of base cards

527
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,440
and chrome and paper either one of
them. Generally the corners are fine,

528
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:45,719
the edges are fine, the centering
is obviously fine or not. So it

529
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,760
comes down to the surface. And
so the difference between a ten and a

530
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,199
nine or a nine point five and
a ten is the tiniest kind of a

531
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:59,239
scratch or fingerprint or something like that. But that doesn't take very long if

532
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,760
you have the kind of lights that
I'm sure all you know BGS has,

533
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,119
and I'm sure all the others have, blue light, black light, regular

534
00:39:06,199 --> 00:39:08,360
light. You know, you put
light on something you're gonna see if there's

535
00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:14,639
an imperfection. I'm right now.
I'm curious for people who submit cards.

536
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,400
You know, when you look at
your card to decide whether to submit it,

537
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:21,920
how long do you actually spend on
the card deciding whether to submit it?

538
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,480
Horatio? Do you submit very rarely, very rarely? And I only

539
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,480
submit cards that I know, you
know, like just by by looking at

540
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,079
it, they're going to give me
like a p S. A five or

541
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:35,840
six or higher. And I've done
that maybe a handful of times to to

542
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,679
resell cards. And I didn't need
a high grade, right, like,

543
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:43,480
I'm not depending on a PSA ten. Like it was mostly vintage cards.

544
00:39:43,679 --> 00:39:45,119
And if I knew I was gonna
get a four or five, and that's

545
00:39:45,159 --> 00:39:47,039
what I wanted for my you know, for what I want to get in

546
00:39:47,079 --> 00:39:52,639
return, I was fine with that. There wasn't a big gamble to having

547
00:39:52,639 --> 00:39:54,039
me submit. In fact, I
knew that by submitting it to PSA,

548
00:39:55,199 --> 00:40:00,199
my my, you know, I'd
make out pretty well. So but I

549
00:40:00,039 --> 00:40:02,400
I can't imagine telling that difference between
a nine and ten, especially with these

550
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:07,400
chrome cards, like I don't have
the eyes for that well. And that's

551
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,280
to my point, is you spend
significantly more time than the greater did.

552
00:40:10,679 --> 00:40:15,559
No, again, I don't think
so. If you send it in and

553
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,400
you know it's at least a nine, but it might be a ten,

554
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,679
I mean that has to be what
you're thinking. And that takes five seconds

555
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,800
tops to look at a card and
say I don't see anything wrong with it,

556
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,840
but maybe they will put it in
the pile to submit, or it's

557
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,599
a vintage card that has reasonable centering, reasonable corners, reasonable edges, reasonable

558
00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:37,280
surface. You know, whatever you're
you know, they say, you know

559
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,800
it's in the fifties, you're looking
for fives or greater. In the sixties,

560
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,320
you're looking for sixties or greater in
the seventies. That takes less than

561
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,159
five seconds. Guys, well,
with all due respect, you're slightly more

562
00:40:49,159 --> 00:40:54,119
talented than the average person. It
depends on what you're If you have one

563
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,559
card, you're not going to spend
five seconds on it, But if you

564
00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:00,679
have one hundred cards, it'll average
out to where you know, it really

565
00:41:00,679 --> 00:41:06,920
doesn't take very long. If you've
if you've never submitted, well then actually,

566
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,719
if you've never submitted a card,
they need to go to a book

567
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,360
submitter and the bulk submitters. In
five seconds, a card could say you

568
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,320
don't want to submit this, you
do want to submit this, and so

569
00:41:15,519 --> 00:41:22,199
it's not a skill that requires sixty
years of hobby experience. Danny, I

570
00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:24,639
also think, sorry, I also
think that these greaters they have so many

571
00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:28,360
I mean, they themselves become so
good at it, right that they can

572
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,119
kind of, you know, take
twenty seconds to get a card. I

573
00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:35,840
mean, if that right, Like
I imagine that after after a month or

574
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,480
two on the job, that you
get really good at it, and you're

575
00:41:37,639 --> 00:41:40,880
you know, you get trained pretty
well and then you go from there.

576
00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:45,519
Or Lando, this is fantastic And
I'd love to hear more about this.

577
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:51,039
That he attended this c SG grading
school. I remember when they put that

578
00:41:51,079 --> 00:41:55,880
on and the final exam grade was
ten cards and twenty minutes, greater notes

579
00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,880
and catch one altered or fake card. Well, there's an aspect we didn't

580
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:05,960
bring into it was identifying fix and
that speaks maybe more to the high value

581
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,920
cards, like doctor Beckett said,
and more eyes on the higher value cards

582
00:42:09,159 --> 00:42:15,000
because people don't fake commons. But
I think that's that's an interesting thing.

583
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,559
So they're they're looking at roughly two
minutes a card for a brand new person,

584
00:42:20,159 --> 00:42:22,199
because you would have. But that's
not the standard for them, guys.

585
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:27,000
I mean what they're looking for or
literally for graters that can find the

586
00:42:27,079 --> 00:42:30,559
flaws, and they're giving them plenty
of time to do that. You can

587
00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:34,760
teach speed, they can speed up
later, but if they can't see the

588
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,039
flaws in twenty minutes, then they're
not going to see it in two minutes.

589
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,519
And the people and again it's like
if you've been to one of these

590
00:42:44,199 --> 00:42:47,000
or these test things where you have
an hour to take the test and some

591
00:42:47,159 --> 00:42:52,760
dude walks up after fifteen minutes and
what's his exam book down? It says,

592
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,559
I'm done, you know, and
maybe acete it. I mean,

593
00:42:54,599 --> 00:42:59,280
some people are just faster than others. But in the grating thing you want,

594
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,320
if they can't see the flaws,
they flunk the test. And so

595
00:43:04,159 --> 00:43:07,320
if it takes them a long time
to see the flaw, in fact,

596
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,159
if they're sitting there for is this
a flaw or not? I'm telling you

597
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,079
right now. If you think it
might be a flaw and it's your card,

598
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:17,280
it's a flaw. I think this
corner is soft, is it?

599
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,639
Is it really soft? If you
think it's soft and it's your card,

600
00:43:21,679 --> 00:43:24,519
it is a soft corner. It's
not a ten or I a little damage

601
00:43:24,559 --> 00:43:28,760
here on the edge, but I
don't know about that. Okay, that's

602
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,599
how you flunk the grading test.
You passed the grading test by in twenty

603
00:43:31,639 --> 00:43:39,039
minutes. You've identified all the flaws
and especially identified the either counterfeit altered,

604
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,159
you know, something something like that. That that's a really big deal.

605
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:51,320
That's a really big deal. How
much incentive is there on speed financially?

606
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,119
The incentive is to keep your job. No, I mean I mean to

607
00:43:53,599 --> 00:43:58,079
do the grading. Companies pay more
if you're faster. Oh no, no,

608
00:43:58,119 --> 00:44:00,480
you can't do it because because and
we we we dealt with this is

609
00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:06,519
that I'll tell you how to get
We had the slowest guy that we had

610
00:44:07,039 --> 00:44:09,480
was our best grader. It's because
he got all the tough stuff, not

611
00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:15,320
tough stuff, but the tougher,
more obscure cards. But the guys that

612
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,119
were the more junior graders got a
lot of the base cards. They could

613
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,280
they could get a lot of speed
going. You can't pay people based on

614
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,000
speed. But if you don't have
speed, you have to have that ability

615
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,880
to see the flaws and to and
to do it quickly. And if you

616
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,639
can't, you're you're not gonna be
You're gonna have trouble keeping your job.

617
00:44:32,039 --> 00:44:36,480
So there's a there's a spree to
corps that we've got to get these cards

618
00:44:36,519 --> 00:44:38,039
done. But we've got to get
it right. And if you've got a

619
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:42,000
problem, you've got to call the
person you gotta you've got to tap the

620
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,239
person next to you in the in
the cubicle with the special lighting and you

621
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,119
say, hey, can you take
a look at this because I want to

622
00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:50,599
make sure I get this right.
And you've got to have a spree to

623
00:44:50,679 --> 00:44:53,079
corps where the dude sitting next to
you or the lady sitting next to you

624
00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:58,559
doesn't say, hey, mind your
own business. I'm doing my own cards.

625
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,159
I want to make my and you're
slowing me up. They got to

626
00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:04,760
say, hey, I'm going to
take one for the team occasionally. I'm

627
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,920
going to make sure we as a
collective group get it right now. I

628
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,440
hope all the grading companies do it
that way. I love the insight on

629
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,880
this conversation. By the way,
Orlando at his when he went to the

630
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:21,119
grading school said the cards were pregraded
by Andy Broom, who's the head,

631
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,119
and you had to detect the flaws. He said he had a colored seventy

632
00:45:25,159 --> 00:45:31,719
one card barely detectable, and Orlando, I assume you caught it. I

633
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:37,559
don't know how did you ace the
test? This is another good question for

634
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:42,880
collector. Would get that because you
as soon as I would see a seventy

635
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:49,719
one tops black bordered card in a
grading test, I would think, oh

636
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,000
my goodness, let me get out
my black magic marker. It's just but

637
00:45:53,159 --> 00:45:57,920
with the right kind of light,
which I'm sure they're equipping them that because

638
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,039
you may not be able to see
it with the naked eye. And to

639
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:02,679
your point, if you're using a
ten times loop with good light, you

640
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:07,400
can create a card in twenty to
thirty seconds. There are videos on YouTube

641
00:46:07,679 --> 00:46:12,440
with Andy Burrhm explaining the grading process, and I think that's part of it.

642
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,119
Is like you said, they built
in the technology and the tools right

643
00:46:16,119 --> 00:46:20,440
at their desks. It's not like
me sitting at my desk where I don't

644
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,360
have the black letter, I don't
have the ten time loop or whatever it

645
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:27,800
is. Is they're set up for
success. And I think that's a key

646
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,719
thing is we have to remember is
their job is grading, so all the

647
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:37,559
tools and everything they need is right
there. And Orlando, congratulations. Yes,

648
00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:42,519
they called me to offer a job
later. Fantastic. Hopefully it's not

649
00:46:42,559 --> 00:46:47,320
because they sold you that seventy one
where there's one more coming. Yes,

650
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:52,800
Mookie says, I would watch a
YouTube series Doctor B's g Greater School.

651
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:57,719
This is fascinating. I can talk
the game. I don't think I can

652
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,760
walk the walk, Mookie, because
my eyes aren't good enough anymore. You

653
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,519
know, I really can't see as
well. But I know the concepts.

654
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:09,840
Orlando says the pace sucks starting at
forty to fifty depending on experience. I

655
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:14,679
think that's where he was headed there. I think the pay goes up from

656
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,719
there pretty radically. If you're really
Andy is one of the best. I

657
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:22,000
think you're talking about Andy Burm.
Yeah. I think he's done a great

658
00:47:22,039 --> 00:47:25,840
job of just transparency. I think
that that's one of the things that we

659
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,960
like in any company. In the
hobby and Horatio, when a lot of

660
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,559
people have talked about some of the
grading companies and doctor Beckett, I want

661
00:47:34,559 --> 00:47:37,559
to make this clear you you have
no involvement in Beckett grading right now.

662
00:47:38,519 --> 00:47:43,559
So there was some comments in the
chat doctor Beckett, do you do you

663
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:49,320
have any working relationship with Beckett right
now? I'm a customer there we go,

664
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,920
maybe not even a favored customer.
I don't know, because there we

665
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,679
got I want to I have a
I get a good rate, but it's

666
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,840
I don't I don't go to the
front of the line. Sure surely don't

667
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:04,039
get preferential grades. But so it
takes a while, but I get I

668
00:48:04,079 --> 00:48:09,840
get my cards back and I'm you
know, the grades or the grades I'm

669
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:14,639
telling you I've gotten so many cards
that I thought were perfect, and they're

670
00:48:14,679 --> 00:48:16,639
not. But they're ten ten,
ten nine point five. And I'm thinking,

671
00:48:16,679 --> 00:48:21,559
guys, what happened to the black
level? Black label? Ten?

672
00:48:22,199 --> 00:48:24,360
I've never gotten one and they say, and they just say, you bring

673
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:29,119
us a card that's deserving of it. We're gonna treat you like everybody else.

674
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,000
I think we're starting a new business
here. How about a Doctor Beckett

675
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,519
fantasy camp. I'd be asking questions
all day long and grading Doctor Beckett,

676
00:48:37,519 --> 00:48:40,159
Ho would you feel about fifty strangers
coming to your house for a week and

677
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:45,280
just camping out? It wouldn't be
fifty that's actually a that's actually a possibility.

678
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,519
But it wouldn't be just grating,
you know, but a day a

679
00:48:49,639 --> 00:48:53,159
day here? Is it just be
fun? Just be fun. I'd probably

680
00:48:53,159 --> 00:48:58,360
have to charge, but it'd be
it'd be fun to It could be maybe

681
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,199
before or after a show. Yeah, I mean, that'd be fun.

682
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:07,480
I mean, I'm getting older and
I've got things i want to share visually

683
00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:12,920
of showing cards as well as sharing
some experiences and opinions and insights. So

684
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,159
I'm doing that on the podcast,
but to do something in person at a

685
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:21,920
show or at my house sometime I've
done something a little bit like that,

686
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,519
but it's more been like a dinner
or a lunch or you know, something

687
00:49:24,559 --> 00:49:29,079
shorter a day. Not sure about
that. It wouldn't be fifty Danny,

688
00:49:29,079 --> 00:49:32,880
wouldn't be fifty, Horatio. I
know that you have a good relationship with

689
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:38,000
Andy Broom. Orlando says he's awesome
that he showed him his minimum sized mantle

690
00:49:38,039 --> 00:49:44,000
to get his opinion. It's minimum
size. Talk to me about Andy and

691
00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:46,320
his collecting, because I think people
might be surprised, and I think you

692
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:52,320
know a little bit about what he
likes to collect in older, more rare

693
00:49:52,280 --> 00:50:00,920
Japanese and Asian cards. Victor Starfin. Yeah, this guy Andy and I

694
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:06,559
go way back. You know when
we so, I said, I bought

695
00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:10,119
the company of the company he was
working for so I could get Andy.

696
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:14,639
So he was working for a different
grading company, and we bought it,

697
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,480
brought in Andy, and Andy did
great work for us for a long time,

698
00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:25,119
and then he actually left and started
the sports division with CGC or CSG.

699
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:30,239
They've changed branding. But he's a
solid grader, solid grader, really

700
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:35,719
outstanding on vintage. It's what it's
like the NAT Turner thing with being the

701
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,960
CEO of Collectors and me too.
If you are a collector and you're in

702
00:50:40,079 --> 00:50:45,679
charge, you're probably going to make
better decisions. Andy is a collector,

703
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:50,679
was a great grader, and he
was able to structure the new program down

704
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:55,079
there on exactly what he I think
liked and didn't like about what we had

705
00:50:55,079 --> 00:51:00,840
been doing and what he'd been doing
before. And he knows his stuff,

706
00:51:00,159 --> 00:51:04,960
so it's not a surprise to me
that he's had some level of success.

707
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,480
Just like Nat Turner. I love
seeing a collector in charge of a company

708
00:51:08,519 --> 00:51:14,920
that's influential in our industry. Yeah. Yeah, and I'll add that I'll

709
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,039
say this much I love and this
this is a testament to Andy broome Is.

710
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:21,559
I love CSG card graded cards out
there, and for some reason they're

711
00:51:21,559 --> 00:51:25,559
they're at a discount, it extreme
discount from PSA cards. But I have

712
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:30,840
so much confidence buying the CSG slabs
because I know the what Andy and his

713
00:51:31,079 --> 00:51:34,800
crew kind of puts into grading the
cards. I mean not to disparage any

714
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,119
other greating companies, but I'm confident
I'd be more than willing to pay twenty

715
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:42,760
dollars less for you know, a
CSG six over a PSA six, because

716
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,519
I know that if I did cross
it over it would be a PSA six.

717
00:51:45,599 --> 00:51:52,360
So yeah, he's been a really
valuable kind of guy to ask questions

718
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,960
about. I know that he collects
stuff. They're expanding into Asia big time

719
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,639
and so and he's got stuff from
you know, these Asian card companies that

720
00:51:59,639 --> 00:52:01,559
I've never heard of and that most
nobody has ever heard of. But I'm

721
00:52:01,559 --> 00:52:05,639
sure you'll hear about in two to
three years. So he's ahead of the

722
00:52:05,639 --> 00:52:07,320
curve in that way as well,
not just the sports card stuff, but

723
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:13,519
also like the TCG stuff, prestige
collectibles, Japanese baseball card says, I've

724
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:17,400
sold Andy many starf In cards.
I have a twenty ten Andy Broom original

725
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:22,599
starfin Art card that he made.
That's pretty cool. Orlando says that he

726
00:52:22,639 --> 00:52:28,719
agrees with you, Horatio, So
yeah, I've never gotten that message on

727
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,280
here before, so yeah, the
first time for me. A thing too.

728
00:52:30,679 --> 00:52:36,599
Yeah, before we pack it up, I always like to find out

729
00:52:36,599 --> 00:52:38,840
what you guys are doing for the
hobby for the weekend. Any new purchases,

730
00:52:39,679 --> 00:52:44,039
Horatio, what have you picked up
anything? How are you hobbying this

731
00:52:44,079 --> 00:52:47,679
weekend? So a couple of things
I collect vintage Tobacco cards of nic Aragua.

732
00:52:47,679 --> 00:52:51,559
You know, I'm Nick Rogwin.
So I picked up a Domino card

733
00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:57,079
from you know, it's got different
flags and real quick T fifty eight.

734
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:00,480
It's a fish series. I just
completed my Piedmont set so with the with

735
00:53:00,559 --> 00:53:05,840
the red nose Mino. So that's
why I just picked up. This is

736
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,000
card number eighty five. I finally
got it. So that's what I'm collecting

737
00:53:09,079 --> 00:53:13,599
right now. Got for bucket anything
else, I don't even know how to

738
00:53:13,599 --> 00:53:19,159
follow that. At Ratio. I'm
getting ready for the for the Dallas show

739
00:53:19,199 --> 00:53:22,760
that's not this weekend but the next
weekend. So that's I kind of from

740
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:27,079
show to show. I'm processing what
I got at the previous show, and

741
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,920
I'm preparing. I'm going to take
some cards in for grading ahead of the

742
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:37,039
show to BGS. I'll drop them
off at the company Monday or Tuesday next

743
00:53:37,079 --> 00:53:39,000
week before the show because they do
a lot of business at the show,

744
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:44,440
so I want to get in ahead
of that. And you know, I'm

745
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,360
getting some stuff ready to go to
eBay, getting some stuff ready to go

746
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:52,440
to com see, and then buy
a few cards at the at the at

747
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,440
the show. So this will be
a quiet, quiet, quiet weekend for

748
00:53:55,480 --> 00:54:01,119
the hobby other than highlight of being
on Hobby Outlaw right. Absolutely, we

749
00:54:01,159 --> 00:54:06,360
didn't even get to the fact that
the National's coming up. So next week,

750
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,360
I'm sure they'll talk about it,
but I think, you know,

751
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:15,599
we're kind of got that on the
horizon as July comes on Monday, Horatio,

752
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:21,280
do you want to share anything about
the National? Well? One,

753
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,639
yeah, one thing. I've got
to write an article for you, Danny

754
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,639
Hobby News Daily. Don't I never
forget, man, I know, I

755
00:54:25,639 --> 00:54:29,639
turn it in late Sunday nights sometimes, but I'm working on an article.

756
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,519
It kind of has to do with
the National. Actually has to do with

757
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:36,480
how you can help a couple of
people that will be at the National.

758
00:54:36,519 --> 00:54:40,079
I won't be there. My wife
is you know, she's expecting with twins.

759
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:43,280
So my life got turned upside down
a couple of months ago when I

760
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,400
found out, or you know,
six months ago when we found out.

761
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:50,320
So but there are there are a
couple of guys. Eric Hecker Rack of

762
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,079
the Day. I've talked about him
before. He gives away cards, so

763
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:57,440
I'll be writing about that. And
also Tim Verhelio, he runs signatures for

764
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,400
soldiers he'll be at the National as
well, and he's looking for a little

765
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,880
bit of help, So I'll be
writing about that. If you guys don't

766
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,760
know about them, look them up
and see if you can help. Now,

767
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,920
a great call. That's that's what
Hobby Paloosa was raising money for.

768
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:14,920
I think they said a record this
year, but it's never enough. There's

769
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:21,719
always a need for more. And
that's true for any philanthropic organization. Yeah,

770
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:27,599
absolutely, mad, said you,
Bruce is lol homework, Horatio,

771
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:34,519
Well, congrats. Ratio is baseball
card. In baseball cards, we call

772
00:55:34,599 --> 00:55:42,360
twins doubles. See and John Keating
says, do you think your life was

773
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:50,800
turned upside down six months ago?
Yeah? So there's all the support and

774
00:55:51,519 --> 00:55:53,440
that you need. And you might
be pulling a double chef. We'll figure

775
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,039
out the details, but you might
be on next week. We'll see,

776
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:01,840
because then you're going to disappear on
us if you if you had a goat

777
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:07,800
a whale, a fabulous card,
who wouldn't want to have two of that

778
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:13,880
card? Hey, there you go, and guess what you'll like one better

779
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:19,039
than the other. You just can't
tell them, all right, talking guys,

780
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,360
thank you doctor Beckett. Horatio to
the chat room. This was this

781
00:56:22,559 --> 00:56:28,480
was really eye opening. Sorry to
ask so many greating questions, but I

782
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:32,000
think this is something that everybody has
an interest in and a lot a lot

783
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:36,400
of things for the hobby. So
we will see you next time. Take

784
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:42,440
care for Next week is episode three
seventy eight. Wow three excuse me,

785
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,679
three h seven s FO numbers.
Yeah,