WEBVTT

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Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and
Bobo. These guys are your favorites,

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so like say subscribe and raid it
live Stock and me grates on us today

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listening watching Lim always keep it squatchy
And now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and James

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Boobo Fay Bobes. What's happening man, Not much, let's go on with

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you. Nothing nothing, just bigfoot
stuff and feeling pretty good about the couple

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of things. Been been feeling a
little bit more alive lately because of this

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thing. Man did that one of
our advertisers, Magic Mind, gave us

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some samples and stuff, and doing
that for a few days in a row,

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and now feeling pretty good. What
about you, mat Did you get

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your box? Yeah? I got. I guess I got mine before you

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did, because I I did it
for a few weeks already. Yeah.

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Yeah, I've been doing it for
a few weeks. Yeah. But I'm

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feeling better already, man, feeling
better already. And I will say this,

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man, it's not a substitute for
coffee. I'm still drinking my coffee

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in the morning. But it's just
a slight uplift, you know what.

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I like it bobs. I don't
do it first thing in the morning.

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I do it in the afternoon for
a lift mea. Yeah, I kind

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of a lift me up if I
can't nap because I'm an old man,

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now I might nap, but if
I can't nap, then I'm definitely doing

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one of those things. It is
a little sharper, nothing crazy, nothing

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crazy, because you know that feeling
when you get like too much caffeine Indian

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stuff. Oh I hate that.
Yeah, I don't like that either,

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But this is not like that.
It's just a little bit of just It's

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like sharpening a picture that you didn't
know was quite out of focus. Yeah,

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I mean, I've definitely noticed it. I mean I felt a little

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more energy, and I felt more
a little focused and concentrating, and I

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noticed an improvement for sure. Dude. They worked on it for ten years

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doing research and development with medical researchers
and advisory were doctors. It was toy

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scientific. They went through hundreds of
iterations to perfect the formula, and you

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can tell. I mean it's top
quality. You know, I was a

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little concerned about when we first got
these samples or whatever from Magic Mind is

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one of my most cherished times of
day is in the morning, having coffee

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with Melissa, and I didn't want
to get rid of that because I just

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really really enjoy that, you know. You know, someone asked what someone

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asked Johnny Cash is a true story. Someone asked Johnny Cash what paradise is

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and said, coffee with her,
now, you know, talking about June,

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his wife there. And I feel
that same way about Melissa, and

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I didn't want anything to replace that
time. But this is not that sort

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of product. This isn't some sort
of caffeine energy drink sort of thing that

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that hypes you up and keeps you
rolling and then crashes you and stuff.

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This is something that's just a little
bit kind of a boost. I like

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doing it in the afternoon actually for
that very reason, just when things are

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getting a little sleepy, my old
man Cliff is getting ready for a nap

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or something. Pop one of these
things in this drink, a little thing.

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It doesn't taste that bad either.
It's good for me, man.

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That's how I choose to use these. It makes you relax, like,

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it makes you feel more relaxed kind
of, but also more alert and more

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focused. Yeah, that's stuff supposedly
like kind of keeps the coffee rolling all

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day too, which is kind of
nice because I do love I do love

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me a caffeine buzz, you know. Hell yeah. Bigfoot Beyond listeners have

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Bigfoot LT twenty at checkout. That's
b I g FOT LT two zero at

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checkout. Great man, good job. Yep, yeah, stove. Did

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I tell you about Melissa casting a
print? No? Oh yeah, So

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have some big news in the Barrackquan
household. I took Melissa out and she

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cast a footprint. Oh yeah,
congratulations. Yeah, that's the first time

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she put plaster in the ground on
one of these things. She's seen footprints

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before, but she had never actually
cast one. And I don't know if

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I told you or not. I
can never remember when I talked to you

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guys, because this like I talk
to you guys all the time. But

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so, there's this location that we
started working. It's a new Spots.

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It's the one that's two hours from
the house. Were finding footprints on an

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old abandoned road. We were finding
footprints above that old abandoned road in a

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swampy area, and above that swampy
area there is a ridge. Well,

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I was digging into the maps and
stuff, because you know, I love

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me some maps, and so I'd
noticed that there was an abandoned road on

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the other side of that ridge,
on the other side of the swamp,

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on the other side of the ravine. Right, So I'm thinking, well,

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gosh, you know, if they're
coming up out of there, crossing

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the road going to the swamp,
maybe they're going on the other side of

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the ravine. They said, well, I got to go walk that abandoned

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road, because that is by far
the most efficient way to find sasquatch footprints.

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Go to a decommissioned road and start
walking it slowly, looking at everything

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in the ground. Right, So
I go there. There's a couple of

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weeks, like maybe two weeks ago, now maybe a little less. I

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went there with a couple other folks, and sure enough we found tracks on

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the abandoned road coming from the direction
of the ridge. So my hypothesis that

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they were coming up out of the
ravine, crossing the area going to the

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ridge, I have some data to
suggest that might be accurate, we'll see.

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So anyway, I found two sets
of tracks, and so one of

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them was pretty good actually, so
I sent I scanned it and everything,

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and didn't have time to cast it. It was getting late in the day,

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and I figured, let's go back
and do it. So Melissa and

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I we went back there on the
twenty third of June. And I know

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that because the twenty fourth was our
seventh year anniversary. Great great event in

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our lives. Of course, Issulation's
most important thing I've ever done is married

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that woman. But anyway, we
went back the day before because yeah,

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why not let's go to the woods
together. And you know, she's not

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a big foot per se, but
she is married to me, so she

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stuck with it and wants to participate
a little bit. So we took her

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out and she's the one that cast
it. Barely shows a toe has a

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really nice world to find a heel. But it was still just a first

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of all, a great trip to
the woods with my wife, you know,

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and of course we're looking at sasquatch
prints. How cool is that?

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And then other stuff happened that I
got to tell you about on an entirely

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different episode because it would take way
too long. But I went to the

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Blues and had my mind blown.
It was pretty amazing. But we'll catch

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up with that at some other point
because right now we have a guest waiting

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on the line. We don't keep
this guy waiting for too long, So

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let's go ahead and do that.
Okay, let's jump into our guests,

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and we're very, very pleased to
have on with us. John Zada.

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He's an author, he's a photographer, he's a man of the world,

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a traveler, intergalactic traveler perhaps,
I don't know. We'll get into that

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in a minute. But he has
written a fantastic book that has come back

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to my attention called In the Valleys
of the Noble Beyond. Actually I wrote

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it a number of years ago,
and I'll tell you, man, it

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is exquisite. This is going to
be a great episode because this book is

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fantastic. I'm about halfway through reading
it. I kind of forgot about it

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and got back to it. But
he published his book back in twenty nineteen,

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and let's bring John on and you
can tell us about it. So

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Bigfoot and Beyond audience, welcome John
Zada. John, thank you so much

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for coming on. Bigfoot and Beyond
with us. Guys. Good John,

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Hi guys, thanks for having me
on. Happy to be here. Oh

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it's great, it's great, And
I was astonished to find out you're actually

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listened to us. I am a
long standing original from day one fan of

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the show. Yes, indeed,
Oh my god, what's wrong with you?

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That's a little shocking. Was so, so let's bunch you here.

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You're like, no way, I
mean, I only I only listened to

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three podcasts. One is you guys, the other one is a podcast about

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spies and espionage, and then the
third one is about writing and self publishing.

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And so it's uh, you're you're
the three that I that I go

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to for podcast listening. Yeah.
Well that's fantastic. Thank you very much

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for your kindness and support. Appreciate
it. Yeah, And of course the

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reason we're having you on is now
is your book in the Valley of the

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Noble Beyond. Now, as I'm
reading this book, and again i'm a

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little over halfway through at this moment, and again I apologize to you before

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we started recording, because you actually
gave me a copy of this book a

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little while ago and it just ended
up in one of my two do piles,

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and I never got to it until
I realized, oh, shoot,

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got to have it on prou it's
ranting how great this book is, and

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so I picked it up, and
I'll say, man, it is a

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very well written book. It is
fantastic. And one of the things I

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like about it it kind of reminds
me of doctor Bob Pyle's book, right

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because you're not I mean you're you're
a bigfooter, certainly because you're doing this

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about bigfoot, but you're not like
the standard bigfoot, the standard squat or

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that I think we have today.
You approach this almost more of a naturalist

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sort of way. It reminds me
of the great writers of the nineteenth century,

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when before science was really a thing
and people call themselves naturalists. And

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it's more almost about an exploration of
the subject, the animals and the locations,

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and it is just so beautifully written
and just so hats off to you

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or heads off to you or whatever
I was going to say. So,

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yeah, so tell us about how
this book came about a boot? A

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boot. You're a Canadian, right, so you're going to hear more than

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your fair share of a boots.
But it's a bit of a life long

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sort of backstory. There's the stuff
that happened before and then the more recent

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events. But let me just say
I started in this area, or my

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interest began in my preteen years.
I was an avid reader of John Green's

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books, and he's if for those
who still at this point don't know who

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John Green is, he was a
journalist who lived in Harrison Hot Springs,

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British Columbia. He was the mayor
of the town for a bit and he

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wrote for the newspaper there. He
was the first real, kind of significant

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journalistic compiler of eyewitnessed reports, and
not just in the British Columbia area,

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but then he was He basically wrote
about North America in general, and so

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I fell in love with his books, found them at the library. I

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was an early reader, so the
adult level, I guess pros wasn't really

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a huge obstacle for me, and
that really kind of kicked it off.

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And but what ended up happening was
later on, as I got into my

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twenties, after having sort of left
the subject a bit behind, I kind

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of got dragged back into it and
there was sort of a series of events

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that took place and I kind of
mentioned them in the book as the backstory

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of this journey. But essentially,
I was at work one day. I

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had this kind of joe job,
and one of my friends at the job

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came up to me and he said, you know, one of our colleagues,

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her name was carm She was like
an executive assistant secretary, had come

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back from a long weekend a few
hours north of Toronto, and she had

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claimed to have seen something crossing the
road at night. And my friend,

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who was at the job at me
knew that I'd had this sort of passing

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interest, this old childhood interest in
the Sasquatch. So I went to Carmen

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and I'm like, you know,
tell me what has happened, right,

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And she didn't want to talk to
me. She didn't want to talk about

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it. She was like, no, no, nothing. She denied that

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she had told anyone anything. But
as time passed, she did eventually speak

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me and essentially told me that her
and her boyfriend were driving up in the

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sort of cottage country area in an
area and you're calling Wood, Ontario,

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just sort of north of the city, and she had seen what she described

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as this tall, hairy, gigantic
monstrous fur covered man crossing the road at

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the stop sign when they stopped.
And she knew nothing about sasquatch, knew

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nothing about bigfoot. She grew up
in this really kind of sheltered Italian traditional

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family. This was before Google and
before like any of this stuff exploded on

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the Internet, so I was kind
of a bit shocked. And she described

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the creatures shuffling across the road like
doing taking these sort of like these very

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fluid movements, and once I heard
that, I knew that this was not

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something that she imagined or made up, and that essentially pulled me back into

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the subject. And then from there
I attended a Sasquatch symposium in Vancouver in

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nineteen ninety nine, where I met
a lot of these sort of big original

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characters from the world of bigfooting,
from Renee de Hinden to Grover Krantz to

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John Bindernagel, who I eventually became
kind of pals with, basically because at

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the Sasquatch symposium, I was doing
documentary work at the time. It was

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early in the journalism career, and
I decided, you know, I'd like

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to really do like a documentary film
about this subject and about John so him

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and I began a kind of a
friendship and he came to Ontario a bunch

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of times to investigate Ontario Reports and
I filmed him and the documentary never got

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made, But that was sort of
the horror sort of middle phase of my

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interest. And then now segueing into
the book, I later, you know,

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went from from video and documentary and
doing TV stuff to becoming a writer,

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like an actual you know, like
a print and online writer. And

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the way the way things happened with
the book was I went on a press

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trip in twenty twelve to a area
of the north and central coast of BC

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called the Great Bear Rainforest. And
it's essentially a coastal temperate rainforest region that

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is about maybe the size of three
or four Olympic National Parks, really big

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trees, grizzly bears, whales,
a lot of First Nations communities in there.

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And I went out there to essentially
do an adventure piece for a magazine.

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And I mean, in the back
of my mind, I knew that

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I was going to Bella Bella and
Bella Coola and Clemto and all these places

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that John Green had mentioned in his
book and had visited on several occasions.

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But what I didn't expect or realize
when I got to these communities and it

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was going to be a two week
trip, was as soon as I got

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there, the towns were completely absorbed
in a bunch of recent Sasquatch reports.

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And it wasn't just I landed in
Bellabella and that's where the trip began,

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but it was happening in all three
communities. And to make a long story

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short, you know, my interest
and passion was reignited, and I didn't

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do so much traveling or kind of
investigating the adventure travel aspects as I did.

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You know, I began investigating the
Sasquatch reports, and by the end

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of the two week trip, I
didn't want to leave, and I was

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like, oh man, I got
to come back. I got to come

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back and write about this in a
longer form, in a longer format.

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And that's when I made the decision
at the end of the trip in twenty

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twelve that I would come back and
do an entire summer long trip and write

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about it in a kind of a
narrative nonfiction sort of way, with characters

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and dialogue and plot. And that's
the genre of the book that you refer

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to. Basically, stay tuned for
more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo

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right back after these messages. Are
you at the ninety nine conference? I

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was at the ninety nine conference.
Yeah, oh man, I was so

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bund to miss that. I thought
it was in the news and I was

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like, God, I could have
went to that if I had known about

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it. All sorts of yeah.
I mean, all the kind of major

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characters were there, So I kind
of feel a little bit like I just

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sort of tapped into that history part
a little bit. Oh that's so cool.

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You know, everybody on the line
right now is super interested in Bigfoot

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history, and you know, at
events like this because it was so quiet

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at the time and now, you
know, you you throw a rock and

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you're probably gonna take down a couple
of Sasquatch conventions, you know, but

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at that time they were very,
very rare, and everybody who was in

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the game at the time either was
there or wanted to be there. It's

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really really cool that you had a
chance to go do that before everything blossomed

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into what it is now, if
that's the right term. So back to

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the book here a little bit there
is a certain tinge I guess of travelogue

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in the book as far as the
writing flavor. But again, I really

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do see it as more of a
naturalist sort of perspective on things, a

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holistic maybe not an outsider, but
a holistic I'll say outsider, but that's

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not quite the word I'm looking for, and holistic outsiders perspective on this.

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What are your big takeaways after spending
a summer up in that area where sasquatch

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sidings are probably pretty common, I
would imagine, just part of the environment,

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part of the natural landscape there.
What are your big takeaways and what

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surprised you and what didn't surprise you
about spending time up there amongst the native

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communities in these places. Yeah,
and just before I answer, I mean,

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I think that's a good point that
you'd made earlier, that the book

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is multi layered. I am and
was a travel writer prior to taking the

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book on. So I did.
I did really want to not only write

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a book that would explore the Sasquatch
phenomenon, but would sort of look at

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the nature, the First Nations,
culture, the history of the area,

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the geography of the area. And
so I mean in terms of things that

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surprised me. One of the things
that surprised me was I was expecting the

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indigenous communities to be generally unanimous about
their take on the phenomenon, meaning that

256
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that almost everybody would believe in them
or think that they exist or you know.

257
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But in fact, there was a
lot of there was quite a lot

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of people who didn't actually, and
I wouldn't say that they're that they were

259
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the majority, but I would say
that I learned to not take it for

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granted that the citizens of these communities
all had the same position. I mean,

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I think I think it's like a
lot of people, either indigenous or

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non indigenous, who spend a lot
of time in the back country, you

263
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know, and are really good at
what they do in terms of in terms

264
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of navigating the back country, if
if they haven't seen it one themselves,

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they think, well, it couldn't
possibly exist. So there were quite a

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bit of people who did sort of
tell me not, it's all kind of

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a it's all kind of a story, or so that kind of caught me

268
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a bit off guard. And also
it was really a lot of flesh and

269
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blood type perspectives up there as well. Whereas I also kind of came in

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with the assumption that there'd be a
lot of the sort of the spiritual,

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the mystical, the sort of the
pseudo religious. I was actually quite surprised

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by how many people were just pretty
much yet it's, you know, among

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the among those who did know about
the animal and did you know, support

274
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its existence, that it was flesh
and blood, and you don't really get

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a lot of the a lot of
the WU or the UFO stuff mixing it

276
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up there. It's it's it's pretty
it's pretty sober, pretty sober minded takes,

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I would say. And I think
maybe that's just because a lot of

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the people who were pro bigfoot have
seen them and and they're like, it's

279
00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.079
definitely an animal. Well, it
might have something to I'm just kind of

280
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hypothesizing here. It might have something
to do with just the necessary practicality of

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living in those places. You know, like it's they they are fishing,

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you know, for a lot of
their meals or hunting, they're they're they're

283
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just living, you know, They're
doing what they need to do to live

284
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and get by and and do what
they do in their environment. That's the

285
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people are. And I think I
find people like that are very much more

286
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prone to just accepting that these are
normal animals who are cool or weird in

287
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various ways, but like just perfectly
normal animals, as opposed to the people

288
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who are attracted to the more paranormal
side of things, who are very often

289
00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:42.000
you know, deeply religious, and
then fit these animals into their scheme of

290
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:48.519
there or you know, or or
a prone to paranormal proclivities, or horoscope

291
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.200
driven or crystal crystal wearing folks and
all that sort of stuff, just like

292
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it's a much more practical lifestyle.
I think, No, absolutely, absolutely,

293
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and I mean I would even I
would even say that it was shocking,

294
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even to the extent to which it
was considered normal by some people.

295
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It was. It was almost like
it some people wouldn't bat an eyelash if

296
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:14.279
someone reported a sighting in in their
presence or like if the subject came up.

297
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It was almost like they were talking
about like vegetables in their garden kind

298
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of thing. It's it was so
it was it was almost considered mundane in

299
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some cases. So I was.
In some cases they were even laughing at

300
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me a little bit that I was
coming up here and you know, you

301
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know, there there were some there
were some difficult issues facing the communities revolving

302
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there was there was a big fire
that had burnt down one of the band

303
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stores in Bella Bella, and they
were they were also doing battle with some

304
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big oil companies that wanted to build
pipelines up up the coast. And people

305
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:48.160
were actually taking me to task for
like, well, you know, we're

306
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:51.480
into big Foot two, but why
are you here like writing about that.

307
00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:53.359
You can be writing about like the
politics, or like, you know,

308
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the difficulties that we're experiencing because the
outside world doesn't know about us. And

309
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so there was there was a bit
of ten actually a little bit of tension

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around that when I first arrived in
Bella Bella, and that was part of

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the plot of the story, was
you know, the communities accepting you and

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and and having to gain their trust
and the faux pause, and you know,

313
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the mistakes that I had made in
terms of ingratiating myselves, especially among

314
00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:22.720
the Heltzok in Ballabella, which was
which I sort of made part of the

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00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.720
hurdles and the challenges in the in
the you know, in the quest theme

316
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:30.960
of the story, I would say, yea, I would imagine getting in

317
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would be a very very difficult,
slow process because any sort of small rural

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community like that, that would be
the case. But when you add the

319
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native element, the First Nations people
who I mean, I live in America,

320
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of course, and god knows,
our government screwed them over a really

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bad I'm assuming Canada did the same
thing to their native population. Generally speaking,

322
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I don't know the history up there
necessarily, but I imagine as much

323
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:57.000
a matter. Yeah, just complicate
things, right, Yeah, so you

324
00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:00.720
felt you were pretty successful with getting
in at least with a small number of

325
00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:02.920
people, who, of course,
once you know one or two people,

326
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they start talking to their friends.
Oh he's cool, you can talk to

327
00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:07.799
him. Yeah, that's yeah,
that's that's exactly what happened. I was

328
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:12.680
really lucky in that I had,
you know, social media in a sense

329
00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:17.680
saved the day. Had I gone
there decades earlier, it would have been

330
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.680
more of a just showing up on
the front door. But I just networked

331
00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:23.160
a bit. And because I had, you know, I guess when you

332
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:27.039
work as a journalist and as a
as a documentarian or what you you kind

333
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:33.640
of learned to introduce yourself to people
and everything. So I basically got in

334
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:37.519
with one of the characters in the
book. Her name is Alvinah an older

335
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:41.599
I guess, matriarch in the community
who's well respected. She had a bed

336
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:45.960
and breakfast. So I basically stayed
with her during my time in Bella Bella,

337
00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:48.920
and it was in a syce.
She almost she pretty much adopted me.

338
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:52.759
I was almost like like a family
member, and so she put in

339
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.839
a lot of good words for me. And as soon as as soon as

340
00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:59.759
people knew that I was staying with
her, it earned me a little bit

341
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:03.559
of her respect, because you know, generally people who go up there will

342
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:07.559
stay you know, in the more
to you know, I guess like the

343
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:11.880
lodge or the more tourist they accommodations. That they were a bit shocked that

344
00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.279
I actually stayed in the community,
and that had a knock on benefit as

345
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well in that she connected me with
a whole bunch of people who had reports.

346
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And so basically what happened was and
this is this goes to answer your

347
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:29.319
your earlier question about the takeaways and
the surprises. Was that and I don't

348
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:33.880
know if this is some kind of
a serendipitous thing that happens in small towns

349
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:37.519
or if it's a West Coast thing
because I mean I'm an eastern Er basically,

350
00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:41.319
but it was just incredible, and
I wrote about it in the book

351
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that the minute you start to kind
of investigate something, or you go you

352
00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:49.119
speak to somebody about a report,
or you follow something up, and then

353
00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:52.799
it just one thing leads to the
other, to the next to the other,

354
00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.880
and you're basically connecting all these dots. And there's this kind of almost

355
00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:02.279
synchronicity serendipity that happens where where you
just sort of you're on this kind of

356
00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:07.160
stream that kind of takes you from
one report or siding or place or venue

357
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:11.079
to the next, and then which
spanned the different towns. It didn't just

358
00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:14.519
happen within Bella Bella. It just
like I would I would meet somebody,

359
00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:18.200
for instance, I'd be in balabell
and somebody who talk about some person in

360
00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:22.400
Bellakula who had a story or whatever, and then I would just like meet

361
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:26.119
them by accident on the ferry or
it. Just the entire trip was that,

362
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:29.920
and I devoted a little section to
explain that, but it's so hard

363
00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:36.960
to to put into writing that kind
of sort of stream of consciousness happening that

364
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:40.599
is life, and so I ended
up with so much more material that I

365
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:45.039
was than I was even able to
write in the book and left me with

366
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.200
with with I mean, I really
had to kind of sift and pick and

367
00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:52.400
choose all the different things that would
go in because you couldn't really write forever.

368
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:56.559
Well, when you're flowing with life, you know, life encourages you

369
00:24:56.599 --> 00:24:59.279
along the way. I just to
me, I've always taken that as a

370
00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:02.079
yeah, I must on the right
track, because weird things are happening.

371
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:06.200
Exactly. Yeah, we very much
felt that way. Now, I'm something

372
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:08.319
that you mentioned a little while ago. I'm so glad you did. You

373
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:14.319
mentioned that the lack of homogeneous perspective
on sasquatches, you know, like that

374
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:18.839
like people view them in various ways, and imagine, you know, some

375
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:22.759
are probably a little bit more culturally
invested in it, or perhaps a cultural

376
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.519
perspective on the animals. Some are
just like, oh, that's the thing

377
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:26.759
that here that lives here. We
don't eat them, so we're not going

378
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:30.480
to worry about them. That sort
of stuff. And imagine a few people

379
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.960
have troublesome sasquatches. Everyone's wanted as
scares them or something like that. I'm

380
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:38.400
glad you mentioned that because I've heard
people say blanket statements that I find to

381
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:42.640
be ridiculous and stereotypical, like I
believe what natives believe. It's like,

382
00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:45.960
well, I mean, you know, you can't do that. That's that's

383
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:51.519
a weird that's a weird thing to
say. I It's like saying I believe

384
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:55.279
what construction. You know, workers
say you believe that, Well, how

385
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:56.799
do you know what they believe?
You talk to you know, natives are

386
00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:00.720
as folks. You talk to ten
of amity at fifteen per perspectives on it.

387
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:03.480
There're just folks. And I'm glad
that you mentioned that because there is

388
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:07.240
no in my opinion and maybe I'm
wrong, there is no quote unquote Native

389
00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:10.640
perspective on it because it comes down
to individuals. I mean, there's cultural

390
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:15.359
perspectives. But did you run into
anybody? And I have, which is

391
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:19.799
why I'm bringing this up. I've
run into some trouble with Native elders who

392
00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:26.319
are actively discouraging me not to be
interested in sasquatches for the good of sasquatches.

393
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:30.000
Did you run into anything like that? I was a little bit I

394
00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:33.079
was also a little bit shocked about
how open people were talking about it.

395
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.039
And I'm not just saying this because
it's you guys and it's this show,

396
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:44.640
but I think the Finding Bigfoot series
did a lot to remove some of the

397
00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:48.440
taboos, if not many of them, and so a lot of people said

398
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:51.839
that they'd watched the show and everything. So I think in that sense there

399
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:55.920
was a lot of openness. I
think where there was a little bit of

400
00:26:56.519 --> 00:27:00.039
caution, and it wasn't just from
elders. It was from some of the

401
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.720
younger people too, but among the
younger people who are slated to become elders.

402
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.640
I would say that the more the
more culturally engaged younger people in the

403
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:12.880
community was that you know, we
don't really kind of go looking for them,

404
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:15.200
you know what I mean, We
don't like chase them, we don't

405
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:18.839
hunt them, we don't make calls, we don't do the wood Knox or

406
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:22.119
whatever. It was sort of more
they were kind of like saying, you

407
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:25.400
know, it's really cool that you're
here to ask us about this, and

408
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:27.440
it's really you know, and we're
happy to kind of share and everything and

409
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:32.119
to tell you our beliefs and our
experiences. But I think it was it

410
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:37.680
was sort of more the there was
sort of this idea that going in pursuit

411
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:42.279
of them in terms of actual field
pursuit kind of thing, and I guess

412
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.839
they were thinking in terms of the
whole kind of stereotypical the Camo thing and

413
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:51.759
like out on expedition was a little
bit sort of disrespectful, and they said

414
00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:55.359
that for us, and I'm quoting
actually directly here somebody he said, for

415
00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:59.200
us, they come to you,
they find you, and if it happens

416
00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:03.240
to you then than than good or
depending on the community. Ill there are

417
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:07.960
different views on that as well,
but we generally don't kind of really go

418
00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:11.720
in pursuit of it. And maybe
that kind of also goes back to what

419
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:14.640
we were saying before about how normal
it is, and maybe they don't really

420
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:18.279
have they don't really have a need
to in a sense because not just because

421
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:19.960
it's in their culture and because they
live with it. But I think I

422
00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:25.240
think this now kind of gets into
a bit of the philosophical But I my

423
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:29.279
sense later after thinking about it,
was maybe they don't pursue it in the

424
00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:33.119
same way that some of us on
the outside do because they live in the

425
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:41.359
general atmosphere of I don't know what
to call it like a super charged mystical

426
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.960
that kind of that kind of magic
and that energy that we associate with sasquatch

427
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:51.799
interpenetrates the ecosystem there. So in
a sense, it's it's it's kind of

428
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:55.240
always there. You kind of always
feel it there, and that that's sort

429
00:28:55.240 --> 00:29:00.000
of the understanding that I took from
from it after leaving, was that it's

430
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:04.400
actually everywhere you look. The word
that you guys use, the term squatchy,

431
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:08.559
right, It's a part of their
everyday life there. And so yeah,

432
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:11.240
I don't know, I guess,
I guess. I guess in a

433
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.880
way, in addition to their sacredness
around the subject, it's just always there

434
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:18.079
for them, and so they don't
really have a need to sort of pursue

435
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.880
it as much. I suppose.
I don't know. That's just the kind

436
00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:23.359
of a guess on my part.
Oh yeah, I totally get it.

437
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:30.000
I totally get it. Stay tuned
for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and

438
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:40.720
Bogo will be right back after these
messages. So you briefly mentioned almost like

439
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:44.400
a teaser there. There's there's so
much stuff that did even make the book.

440
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:47.759
Now that the book is out,
do you regret are there any thing

441
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:52.440
specific stories that you regret not putting
in or perhaps you would want to put

442
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:55.680
in another volume if you ever pinned
one of those. Well, I mean

443
00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:59.720
I put in the stories that I
that were the most dramatic, I would

444
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:02.319
say, for sure, because I
had to make a cut. But I

445
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:04.720
guess it's I mean, it has
occurred to me to to do something with

446
00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:07.400
all of the little bits and pieces
I think a lot of I think a

447
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:15.079
lot of the material were we're sort
of shorter encounters, more more brief type

448
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:18.640
of of engagements with the creatures,
then then then the longer. So no,

449
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:22.160
I mean I in a way,
in a way, part of the

450
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.039
difficulty in with writing a book is
that part of it is the writing,

451
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:30.720
but then you spend a lot of
time editing and cutting stuff out, and

452
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.039
so in a sense, no,
I mean I made some hard decisions about

453
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:40.000
material to leave out, but I
think I left just enough of the more

454
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:44.279
dramatic stuff in that I thought would
be interesting to readers, and so the

455
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:49.279
rest is the rest, I guess
will just sort of remain in my mind.

456
00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:52.880
I don't, I don't. I'm
not sure whether there there would be

457
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:56.119
kind of an occasion to write something
else about it. Didn't you have your

458
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.960
the rock throwing incident right after you
went to publication like a couple of weeks

459
00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:06.720
later. Yeah, So after I
signed off on the final edit, so

460
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:10.400
we basically had kind of we've done
the back and forth with the with the

461
00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:14.599
editor, the publisher. So there
was a publisher in New York called Grove

462
00:31:14.599 --> 00:31:18.519
Atlantic. They picked the book up, and so they were fairly sort of

463
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:25.160
conservative about the whole take. I
think I think they were content with with

464
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:30.880
the fact that I that I wasn't
really pushing the bigfoot hypothesis on the reader

465
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:34.599
kind of thing. And so when
we'd finished editing, I was here in

466
00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:41.279
British Columbia. I had gone on
a on a camping trip with my girlfriend

467
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:48.799
and a buddy of mine to a
place called Cape Scott Provincial Park, which

468
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:55.039
is on the very northwest tip of
Vancouver Island. It is it's essentially the

469
00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:59.319
draw of of the park, as
is camp sites on the beach, basically

470
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:02.720
on the Pacific. But so what
happened was on the way back to the

471
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:07.559
car too, and this is a
very very very remote, remote backcountry site.

472
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:13.599
We had stopped for the night in
a pretty much an empty, small

473
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:17.119
campground, away from away from the
from the coast, from the ocean,

474
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:22.759
and and so yes, at about
ten pm, my buddy went to bed.

475
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:25.880
He went he went into his tent
which is in the trees. And

476
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:30.240
we were, my girlfriend and I
were out on the edge of a lake.

477
00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:34.640
We had a little fire going and
we were we were basically about to

478
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:37.319
sort of come in and sort of
call it, call it quits for the

479
00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:40.680
night. And suddenly, I mean
I didn't see, we didn't see anything,

480
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:45.039
but we heard the splash in the
water right next to us. We

481
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:47.359
were like four or five feet away
from from from the edge of the water,

482
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:52.079
and it was like this splash,
and we just kind of both sort

483
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:55.759
of just stood up and we thought
that there was an animal swimming or something

484
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:59.759
like that in the water. But
then there was another splash and they were

485
00:32:59.799 --> 00:33:06.160
they they were cerplunks, So it
was like plunch plunch, like at several

486
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:10.039
second intervals, and like like quite
loud, and you could almost sort of

487
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:15.160
hear stuff was falling from the sky
basically, and we weren't, we weren't

488
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:17.319
below a cliff. We were like
there was nothing, there was nothing that

489
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:22.640
could have suggested any rocks coming down
a hillside or mountain, but and we

490
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:27.200
just sort of both looked at each
other and there was almost kind of moment.

491
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:30.039
It's not not telepathy, but we
both kind of knew we had this

492
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:37.440
moment of unbelievable fear because we both
knew that there there was large objects falling

493
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:39.839
into the water next to us.
It was it was pitch black, and

494
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:45.160
and that and that whatever was throwing
them, there was something in the bushes

495
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:46.960
there like the whole time, because
we had been we'd been sitting out by

496
00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:52.240
the by the lakeside since dinner,
all of us, and so we ran

497
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:54.920
back to the tent and I mean, I was like, I was completely

498
00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:58.240
freaked out, and I'm like,
you don't understand, you don't understand this

499
00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:01.039
is happening. This is exactly what
happens everybody there's a sasquatcher, and I,

500
00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:06.240
you know, I kind of reverted
to this like like all of the

501
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:08.719
experiences, all of the books,
all of the stories, and we were

502
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:13.320
we were, we were in and
we were that ecosystem up there is essentially

503
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.559
like the Great Bare Rainforce. It's
it's the exact same thing. And when

504
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:20.920
we came into the camp, we
all kind of realized that like there was

505
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:24.480
no sounds, there was no birds, there was no squirrels or chipmunks.

506
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:30.239
It was just completely dead quiet.
And everybody sort of remarked that, like

507
00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:32.000
there was something wrong with the place. And I kind of made a bit

508
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:35.440
of a joke. I'm like,
this is a bit like some of the

509
00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:37.639
areas further up north in the Grape
Bear. And you know, we kind

510
00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:40.000
of made it. We called it
sasquatch, like we kind of made a

511
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:45.360
joke. But but by the time
we ran back into the tent, I

512
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:51.400
was like completely I was completely freaked
out. And we were debriefing each other

513
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:53.760
for like half an hour and then
and then at the half about about at

514
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:59.800
the half hour mark, we heard
this massive commotion back from where we came

515
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:04.360
from at the lake. It almost
sounded like like noises at a construction site,

516
00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:07.840
like it like it sounded like this
banging, and it didn't. I'd

517
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:10.679
never heard a wood knock before,
but it sounded almost more like boulders being

518
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:15.199
picked up and thrown against other boulders. It sounded just it sounded like a

519
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.960
construction side kind of thing. And
and and it lasted for a few seconds,

520
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:22.280
and then I kind of was like, there's a I mean, I

521
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.440
didn't know any other way to explain
it. And I'm like, for sure,

522
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:30.960
like there's something here, Like what
other explanation could there be? So

523
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:32.760
basically I was up the whole night. She fell asleep. She's like,

524
00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:36.440
ah, if it was going to
do something, it had come come,

525
00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:38.519
did something to us a long time
ago. And she knocked out, and

526
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:42.039
I was up till the morning,
and then this at first light, we

527
00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:45.360
packed up and we got out of
there. So I don't know, I

528
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:49.199
mean, this could all be my
own, all my biases kind of at

529
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:53.800
play. But that happened. And
the PostScript to this was I told the

530
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:59.079
publisher about it. So the book
hadn't come out yet, and and so

531
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:01.920
there was some discuss among the publisher
and they at first they were like the

532
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:06.119
American publisher said, no, we're
going to we're going to keep it as

533
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:09.559
is. And then the Canadian publisher, there's another publisher called Graystone, they

534
00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:13.760
bought the rights of the book.
They said, why don't you do a

535
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:17.360
write up for us about what happened
and then we'll see and then when I

536
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:22.079
do kind of as like a like
like one of the adenda to the book,

537
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:24.360
but then in the end they decided
not to put it in because I

538
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:29.880
think they like the idea of it
being ambiguous at the end. So but

539
00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:34.559
yeah, well, as far as
ambiguity goes, it doesn't sound like there's

540
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:37.000
any ambiguity with you as far as
the reality these animals, right, Yeah,

541
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:43.239
I mean, I'm generally of the
perspective that there is something to this

542
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:45.360
phenomenon. I don't really kind of
when people ask me. I mean,

543
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:49.400
I talk to lots of people who
have no connection to the subject, and

544
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:52.119
when they ask me, I do
tell them, yes, I do.

545
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:57.159
I do lean towards I am pretty
much a proponent that there is that there

546
00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:00.639
is a reality to this kind of
thing. And so so yeah, I

547
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:04.800
mean, I guess I guess my
sort of personal approach is I don't really

548
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:07.960
kind of try and convince anybody.
And I think that was part of the

549
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.280
reason I wrote the book in the
way that I did. I kind of

550
00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:14.519
wanted to do something that was different
also from the point of view of not

551
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:17.159
kind of trying to convince anyone.
I just I sort of thought, well,

552
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:23.800
if somebody is able to sort of
see the the reality in this,

553
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:28.239
then they will pursue it themselves kind
of thing. So I've yeah, I

554
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:30.360
mean, I mean, I think
the incident. I think the incident at

555
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:36.719
Cape Scott cemented things a little bit
more, even though I even though we

556
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:39.679
didn't quite see anything, I think
I think that the noises or the rocks

557
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:45.679
falling or whatever, we're an indication
enough right now now if I'm if I'm

558
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:49.320
remembering correctly, which is always a
big gamble with me. Well, you're

559
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:52.960
a listener, you know, my
memory is kind of fuzzy. It seems

560
00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:57.480
to me that you saw some doubt
you saw footprints, but when you went

561
00:37:57.559 --> 00:38:00.519
up to this area, you went
to an area where footrints had been accorded,

562
00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:04.679
right, and and uh they were
smaller footprints, right, that's right.

563
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:07.880
What are your thoughts on the little
people than the stick Indians like the

564
00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:12.079
because I know I never even heard
of those things when I first got into

565
00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:16.320
Bigfoot, and I kind of stumbled
upon this other cultural phenomenon, I think

566
00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:21.159
in a lot of ways, of
the little people. What were your thoughts

567
00:38:21.159 --> 00:38:24.519
on that? In all of the
communities that I visited, they had spoken

568
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:34.239
about a smaller a smaller type of
sasquatch uh child size basically, and in

569
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:40.039
Bella Bella. It was particularly prevalent
in in Bella Coola. They had an

570
00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:44.559
actual name for it. They called
it the Books, And so I think

571
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:50.559
some earlier writers had confused the books
with the larger sasquatch type creature, where

572
00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:53.760
whereas in in in in Uh in
the New Hawk community, they called that

573
00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:59.639
the syninic and so yeah, I
don't know. Same same in we Cano

574
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:02.639
in rivers Inlet as well up and
Clem too. So I'm not sure.

575
00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:07.320
I mean, I think I was
just I was wondering the whole time weather

576
00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:14.519
perhaps maybe they had confused the juveniles
for a separate being. So I don't

577
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:17.440
know. I'm I'm a little bit
unsure as to whether whether the smaller creature

578
00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:22.360
is an actual juvenile, that it's
confused for something else and they claim that

579
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:28.360
it is something in their culture.
So I don't know. I kind of

580
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:30.440
I've just sort of left it at
that. I think, yeah, yeah,

581
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:35.599
well, if their child's size,
I think you're thought about them being

582
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:39.440
juvenile sasquatches would be spot on.
But did you run across stories of like

583
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:43.159
what do they call them? Maybe
sick Indians? I know they're called that

584
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:47.000
in some areas where there's like people
like little people wearing like native garb,

585
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:50.920
like one and a half two feet
tall or something like that. No,

586
00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:52.360
no, nothing, no, nothing
like that at all. Oh that's good

587
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:55.960
because those I hope those don't exist. Yeah, yeah, no it was.

588
00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.719
I would I would say, I
would say the the ideas were fairly

589
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:07.039
we're fairly you know, conservative,
and and and of the common variety like

590
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:12.679
none I mean, dog men,
mothman and all of that sort of newer

591
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:15.400
stuff didn't didn't really exist up in
I mean I know it was, it

592
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:19.360
was, it was a number of
years ago, but they didn't really seem

593
00:40:19.400 --> 00:40:22.519
to be kind of enamored by any
of that. Same with the UFOs,

594
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:27.760
Yeah, nor am I I think
I'm gonna stick with what's really now.

595
00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:30.280
As far as your your trip goes, like the one you based the book

596
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:37.880
off of, how many eyewitness reports
would you guess you collected? Just put

597
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:42.159
a number on it, and it's
close, doesn't matter to me. I

598
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:47.320
would say probably three or four dozen
or so. Yeah, it's a bit

599
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:52.920
strange, Like I figured, maybe
perhaps rightly that because it's such a remote

600
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:57.519
area, it's so pristine. I
mean, I can't even begin to explain

601
00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:01.360
how really, how how how wild
the place is. I mean, it

602
00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:07.559
probably is is it's it's equivalent to
parts of Alaska and everything. I mean,

603
00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:10.719
the automatic assumption was because of the
history and because of how wild it

604
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:15.559
is, that there would be so
much. But then at the same time,

605
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:20.119
it wasn't until later after I left
that because the area is so sparsely

606
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:23.960
populated and because people travel in boats, there isn't really a lot of road

607
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:27.599
works up there. I mean,
there is, there is a main road

608
00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:32.800
coming from the interior into Belluicula,
but everyone else is kind of and there

609
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:37.440
are roads in the community, within
the communities themselves, but everybody uses boats,

610
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:40.559
and so the boats are loud,
they have engines, and and I

611
00:41:40.599 --> 00:41:45.840
think that a lot of the sidings
sort of tend to tend to kind of

612
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:51.960
happen when they're on land and in
outside of the community, which isn't often

613
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:55.480
that much. So I think I
think in some kind of paradoxical way,

614
00:41:55.679 --> 00:42:01.440
like there may have been less sidings
and reports then you would get in a

615
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:07.280
place like Ohio, or you hear
about Massachusetts or Connecticut or any of these

616
00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:12.280
places where people are more tightly packed
in with them. So and I've heard

617
00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:15.800
the stories. Some of the stories
were fifty years old, some had happened

618
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:20.639
just the previous summer, and so
yeah, there were there were, There

619
00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:24.000
were quite a often just really kind
of just things that were in passing.

620
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:29.280
Did you find that women, like
the Native women were a lot more afraid

621
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:32.239
of them? I would I would
say there was an equal fear, because

622
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:37.679
again we've all heard this before about
the stories, the scare stories as growing

623
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:43.000
up as kids. They were I
think they were all instilled with with a

624
00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:45.199
with a with a caution or a
fear of the animals. So I would

625
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:49.960
say they were all I would say, male and female, they were quite

626
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.400
fearful. I would say I know
of a few individuals and some of the

627
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:59.360
communities who are like pretty hardcore outdoors
people and hunters, and I think there

628
00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:02.679
were incidents involving some of these people
where they had they knew that there was

629
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:06.760
one in the area and they just
they took off. So I think I

630
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:13.159
think there is a I think everybody's
generally equally afraid. Stay tuned for more

631
00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:16.440
Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo
will be right back after these messages.

632
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:25.760
Did you talk to even anyone that
had any terrifying encounters with them, because

633
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:30.000
it sounds like it was all kind
of benign stuff for the most besides rocks

634
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:32.599
being thrown. Yeah, I know, so yeah so, and I've I've

635
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:36.920
got some of those stories in the
book. And I mean there were there

636
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:42.840
were a lot of there were a
lot of cabin attack type of sort of

637
00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:45.760
encounters and stories, and so I've
got some of those in the book where

638
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:49.840
they were just like bang on the
cabins at night and everything. And because

639
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:54.079
the different nations have got these these
these back country cabins on their territory that

640
00:43:54.119 --> 00:43:58.639
they can use when they're out,
and they also they also take the kids

641
00:43:58.679 --> 00:44:00.800
there on trips and they do camping
trips for the weekend. And so one

642
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:08.679
of the one of the big stories
involved a woman in Ballabela who took you

643
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:15.719
know, Heltzic youth at risk Heltic
youth on these on these camping trips basically

644
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:20.519
to kind of help to you know, part of the idea is you know,

645
00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:23.280
reforming kind of people who are who
are involved in you know, in

646
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:27.400
in who are doing things, young
people who are who are kind of maybe

647
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:30.360
involved in in in crime or whatever
is to is to take them out into

648
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:34.719
nature and to teach them about their
culture and everything. So there was one

649
00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:39.519
story where several preteen girls went with
a couple of adults to one of the

650
00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:46.280
cabins to look a really really active
inlet. Look at this this this crazy

651
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:52.639
uh fjord like inlet about an hour's
boat ride from Ballabella. And as soon

652
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:59.320
as they arrived they saw one.
They saw a sasquatch standing at the edge

653
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:02.039
of the ashore. And it was
they described it as and it was like

654
00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:07.519
a group report. Basically they'd all
seen it like a kind of a like

655
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:12.679
like like you hear about these like
really muscular bigfoots that everybody keeps talking about,

656
00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:15.639
the really the the cut ones,
the musk. This was kind of

657
00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:21.039
like a lanky Chewbacca type one.
But and they they basically ran into the

658
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:25.400
cabin and the creature eventually went away, but then came back later that night

659
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:30.800
and basically kind of almost taunted them
or terrified them the whole night by you

660
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:35.360
know, crawling under the cabin which
was on stilts, and scratching and knocking,

661
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:39.559
and the smell of the creature kind
of wafted it up through the through

662
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:45.159
the seed or floorboards into the cabin, and this this whole drama ensued basically,

663
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:51.480
and so and that was the next
morning that you know, one of

664
00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:54.679
one of one of the adults eventually
went outside and shot off. He fired

665
00:45:54.679 --> 00:45:58.599
his gun and the creature went away, and then they left at first light

666
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:02.280
basically. But you do get a
handful of these really kind of dramatic,

667
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:08.840
lengthy kind of encounter stories, and
they do tend to involve those those backcountry

668
00:46:08.840 --> 00:46:14.960
cabins in the territories. Basically,
they love to like psychologically torture people.

669
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:20.239
They're masters at intimidation, that's for
sure. That's that's what it sounded like.

670
00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:24.039
And and and there was another there
was another story that I put in

671
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:30.920
the appendix of the book about about
a young guy nineteen years old who again

672
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:35.119
he was he was he was part
of that restorative justice program with the Heltzik.

673
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:38.480
He had I guess he had done
something wrong, and part of the

674
00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:44.199
I guess his his penalty was to
spend time in isolation at one of the

675
00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:46.679
cabins, right so where they were, they would, you know, in

676
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:50.000
a humane kind of way, they
would go check on him and bring him

677
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:53.039
food and stuff and everything. But
I think what ended up happening was whatever

678
00:46:53.320 --> 00:47:00.159
whatever creature was in the area had
become acclimatized to his pri and just started

679
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:05.280
to bother him and bother him,
so that when the adult person came back

680
00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:07.039
to check on him, he was
he he was just like, getting me

681
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:08.840
the hell out of here, Get
me out of here. There's something here,

682
00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:13.119
there's something here. And then when
the when, the when the woman

683
00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:15.079
didn't believe him, thinking that he
wanted to kind of just an excuse to

684
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:19.280
come back, he went look and
he pointed up at the at the cabin

685
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:22.239
and at the like ten or twelve
foot mark off the ground. There was

686
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:25.480
a huge handprint on the on the
side on the side of the wall kind

687
00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:30.000
of thing. So, yeah,
there's there is there's a lot of drama.

688
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:30.960
There's a lot of drama with some
of the reports. Some of them

689
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:35.400
are really fleeting, like in you
know, the cross the road type thing,

690
00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:39.280
but then you get these you get
these longer ones that that come out

691
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:43.559
of the woodwork, and and essentially
that's what happened. When I went on

692
00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:47.679
my first trip there to do the
magazine story. One of those big drama

693
00:47:47.719 --> 00:47:52.239
stories had just unfolded at the youth
at a at one of the summer youth

694
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:57.639
camps, and the whole community was
buzzing. And I think that's that was

695
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:00.960
the story that had pulled me in
and had made me realize like, oh,

696
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:06.639
I really have to come back,
and I have to come back and

697
00:48:06.639 --> 00:48:10.039
and write about this and and investigate
more for myself. So this youth camp

698
00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:15.000
story, how how long before you
arrive did it occur? It had happened

699
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:21.039
I think several about a month or
four weeks or something, so it had

700
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:27.480
just taken place, and and you
know, I was I just made you

701
00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:29.719
know, I was there to write
a travel piece. But then I just

702
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:32.960
figured I would just ask, like, hey, like anything happening from from

703
00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:36.760
the Sasquatch point of view? Like
I know this is Bellabella. Like in

704
00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:39.079
my mind, I'm like I'm remembering
John Green's books, and they all just

705
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:43.159
sort of stopped and looked at each
other and were like told me, like,

706
00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:45.440
yeah, like just something just happened. And then there's a there's a

707
00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:49.840
really remote the whole area is remote, shouldn't even say, but there's like

708
00:48:50.119 --> 00:48:54.280
there's an extra remote river system called
the Quaya River, which is on the

709
00:48:54.320 --> 00:49:00.639
mainland coast. Bellabella's on an Island. So just to the south east of

710
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:06.559
Bellabela is this very traditional sacred area
called the Quay River Valley, hasn't been

711
00:49:06.679 --> 00:49:13.960
law hasn't been commercially logged, and
maybe is the most intact river system maybe

712
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:17.760
in potentially among them in BC.
And so they take their kids there every

713
00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:25.159
summer to do to do ecology and
cultural stuff, and there's been activity there.

714
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:30.760
At the time of my twenty twelve
and twenty thirteen visit, there had

715
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:37.679
been a lot of activity there for
successive summers and including like including appearances of

716
00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:43.400
the animals, both in the youth
camp which is down by the river and

717
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:49.800
even in the Councilor's sort of some
of the other buildings further up kind of

718
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:52.559
on the hill kind of thing.
So that's one of the stories that kind

719
00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:57.639
of brought me out there, was
hearing about that and going wow, and

720
00:49:57.679 --> 00:50:00.440
then hearing the same thing in all
the other community. Are you still in

721
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:05.239
touch with any of the people that
you've stayed with or visited with, or

722
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:09.400
any of the witnesses to this day
and has the activity continued. Yeah,

723
00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:15.559
So that's a very interesting question.
So the short answer is yes, in

724
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:22.880
that I've been going back there almost
every year, because when I started writing

725
00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:25.039
the book, I wanted to make
sure that I not only just went in

726
00:50:25.079 --> 00:50:29.639
twenty twelve for two weeks in twenty
thirteen for the summer, I wanted to

727
00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:35.440
really immerse myself in the community and
under just I really wanted to understand and

728
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:37.480
soak up the place. It's kind
of a bit like like actors getting into

729
00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:42.000
their role a little bit. So
I basically have gone back every year and

730
00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:45.559
have become friends with a lot of
not just the eye some of the eyewitnesses,

731
00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:50.119
but also other people in the community
who I became friends with. And

732
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:53.800
I was even there last. I
went back to Bella Bella last year in

733
00:50:53.880 --> 00:51:00.159
September twenty twenty three, and I
did a ca camping trip with a couple

734
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:06.360
of friends from the community there to
a very very very very remote place that

735
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:09.400
very few people even in Bellabella get
to go to. And and yes,

736
00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:17.440
so when I was there last September, there was a footprint report that went

737
00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:24.239
viral on the Bella Bella Facebook social
media kind of network or whatever. And

738
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:29.199
and even on previous trips when I
went up there, I'd heard stories from

739
00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:32.280
other people, including non and including
a non Indigenous I'd heard about a non

740
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:39.159
indigenous couple who had seen one running
from the water on the beach into into

741
00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:44.880
the forest just south of just south
of Bellabella. Basically, so, I

742
00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:47.559
mean it does continue. What I
what what they do tell me though there

743
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:52.239
is that it sort of comes in
waves. I don't know what to make

744
00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:55.639
of that. There. They said
that there are some some periods where it's

745
00:51:55.679 --> 00:52:00.039
really quiet, and then all of
a sudden it gets busy again, and

746
00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:02.519
so my twenty twelve trip happened on
a busy period, which is why I

747
00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:07.880
got all of the activity in all
of the communities. Perhaps there was a

748
00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:12.280
virality to the stories that maybe it
kind of maybe it caused some people to

749
00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:15.840
conclude that they'd seen a sasquatch or
heard one in the other communities, when

750
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:19.440
in fact they hadn't. There's the
whole psychology piece as well, obviously.

751
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:24.360
But yes, it still goes on
up there, and I imagine if I

752
00:52:24.440 --> 00:52:29.400
was to go back and spend any
time again, you'd hear about something for

753
00:52:29.480 --> 00:52:34.119
sure. Now, having taken a
few dozen reports, I think it's safe

754
00:52:34.159 --> 00:52:37.320
to say, as you mentioned,
do you see any trends or patterns in

755
00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:42.199
them? And things like I don't
know, just shoot from the hip her

756
00:52:42.440 --> 00:52:47.519
time of day habitat, which of
course is skewed by the human presence of

757
00:52:47.559 --> 00:52:51.599
course, you know, because they're
only seeing where humans are. I know,

758
00:52:51.639 --> 00:52:54.239
from listening to your podcast, you're
really you're I mean rightly, so

759
00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:59.960
you're very interested now and kind of
deducing from the stories, and I mean,

760
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:01.519
they tended to be a lot of
little things. I would say,

761
00:53:01.519 --> 00:53:07.599
I'm little for me, but just
things like the creatures are the animals like

762
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:14.320
squatting and kind of like hugging a
tree to kind of remain concealed whatever.

763
00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:16.599
There were a lot of that sort
of thing. There were a lot of

764
00:53:16.599 --> 00:53:21.400
stories about them being agitated, pacing
back and forth and back and forth and

765
00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:24.800
back and forth and back and forth
like that kind of stuff, and just

766
00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:30.920
sort of smaller behavioral things, and
a lot of them. The cabin encounters

767
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:35.239
tended to be very, like I
said earlier, kind of almost taunting,

768
00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:40.000
psychological like. In one case,
the guy described it as almost like the

769
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:45.039
thing taking its hand and kind of
just with its fingernails brushing along the side

770
00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:50.280
of the wood on the outside,
kind of almost like just dragging its nails

771
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:53.760
like things, little things like that
and yeah, I mean those were the

772
00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:57.920
sorts of things that I that I
kind of heard time and again, well,

773
00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:01.199
those are the cool things that the
subtle behaviors and and they're they're to

774
00:54:01.239 --> 00:54:04.880
me at least, because you know, running across the road isn't that exciting

775
00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:07.880
to me after we got the reports. Honestly, it's the stuff like,

776
00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:10.119
oh, how can the tree squatting
down? That's cool stuff, that's rat

777
00:54:10.519 --> 00:54:14.920
they do that horror It's like horror
movie. They really needed things that you

778
00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:17.119
see in horror movies, like dragged
one fingernails on the side of a tent

779
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:22.400
or a wall, you know,
tapping, you know, like little things

780
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:25.280
that seemed somewhat innocuous, but they're
super creepy when they when they're happening in

781
00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:29.800
the dark out the woods. Yeah, yeah, there there were. There

782
00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:35.920
were a lot of there were.
There were quite a number of stories around

783
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:40.719
the wintertime around clam digging and being
out there at the middle of the night

784
00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:47.480
for low tide, and about about
about the animals being really protective and really

785
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:52.320
defensive about their clam beaches and chasing
people out and be like the more aggressive

786
00:54:52.400 --> 00:55:00.760
stories of aggressive sasquatches revolved around clam
beaches and about protecting their resources. That

787
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:05.719
seemed to be a very recur That
was a recurring story among a lot of

788
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:10.159
the people there. Did you hear
any bear sasquatch interaction stories? No,

789
00:55:10.519 --> 00:55:15.119
nothing like that. I mean,
somebody had mentioned that because it's grizzly,

790
00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:21.519
hardcore grizzly territory, the valleys or
the water sheds where there tended to be

791
00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:23.719
a lot of grizzly, there tended
to be not a lot of sasquatch and

792
00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:29.239
vice versa. But obviously I can't
I mean, I can't make sense.

793
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:31.559
I couldn't confirm. But that's what. That's what more than a few people

794
00:55:31.599 --> 00:55:34.920
told me, and I heard that
a lot in Bella Coola, that there's

795
00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:38.159
a mutual avoidance between those two species. Mm hmm, Well, I don't

796
00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:44.840
don't suppose you would know about their
thoughts on a similar matter, the presence

797
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:47.840
of black bears and sasquatches. No, that yeah, that that didn't really

798
00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:52.760
that didn't come up as as any
kind of pattern. Yeah, I guess

799
00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:55.280
if there's grizzlies in the neighborhood,
that probably eclipses the presence of black bears

800
00:55:55.280 --> 00:55:59.159
in a lot of ways. You
know, did you did you ask them

801
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:01.239
about any of those old John Green
stories, like what was it Charlie,

802
00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:07.480
Charlie Mack or Clayton Mac. Yeah. So I met Clayton Mac's son on

803
00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:13.519
the twenty twelve trip, the magazine
trip again again part of that whole serendipitous

804
00:56:13.559 --> 00:56:16.800
thing. I was out kind of
exploring with one of the locals in the

805
00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:20.840
community and he was in his truck. We just went up to him and

806
00:56:20.920 --> 00:56:22.079
then somebody, the guy that I
was with, told me, oh,

807
00:56:22.119 --> 00:56:25.519
that's Clayton's son. So yeah,
I knew. I've met a lot of

808
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:31.519
people who who were related to Clayton
because there's so much sort of interrelated family

809
00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:37.760
sort of links between those communities,
and and heard a lot of stories about

810
00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:43.079
about Clayton and everything from people who
I mean, I even spent time with

811
00:56:43.239 --> 00:56:46.920
his Clayton has a nephew who goes
by the name of Little Obie in Bella

812
00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:51.679
Coola, and he pulled out his
cast collection for me and showed me all

813
00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:55.920
the casts that he had casted himself
in Bella Coola. And when you're there,

814
00:56:57.039 --> 00:57:00.800
it's like you you tap into it's
like you hap the vein, It's

815
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:04.639
like it's it's it's all there,
and it's all there available for you.

816
00:57:04.719 --> 00:57:08.079
So and in Clem Too, I
did actually meet I guess he was an

817
00:57:08.119 --> 00:57:14.239
elder. He was. He'd met
John Green and Bob Titmas believe it or

818
00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:16.880
not, when when when Green and
Titmus used to travel the North Coast together,

819
00:57:17.320 --> 00:57:21.480
he remembered Titmas and told me about
him. This was again on the

820
00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:24.559
twenty twelve trip. So yeah,
a lot of a lot of that history

821
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:28.840
is still is still there circulating in
the community. Well, you know,

822
00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:30.679
we can talk to you for hours
and hours and hours, but I would

823
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:34.519
like to squeeze another hour out of
you if you wouldn't mind ad over our

824
00:57:34.599 --> 00:57:38.480
members section, hear more about your
trips and your your insights and and of

825
00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:42.719
course Matt Prude is chomping at the
bid. He has a whole laundry list

826
00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:45.159
of questions to ask you. So
if you wouldn't mind sticking around for our

827
00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:49.760
member section, we really really appreciate
it. Sounds good and of course for

828
00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:52.559
people listening, if you're curious about
the member section, it's a five dollars

829
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:54.000
a month thing. It's a Patreon
deal. There will be a link in

830
00:57:54.039 --> 00:57:58.519
the show notes and basically, what
you get you get an extra hour of

831
00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:01.320
Cliff and Bobo and Matt prove it
it always joins us for the conversation as

832
00:58:01.320 --> 00:58:05.679
well. We do Q and a's, we do special member events sort of

833
00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:08.039
things, you know, like you
guys, there's a lot of cool things

834
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:12.599
going on. But also also besides
just what you get on the extra hour

835
00:58:12.639 --> 00:58:15.800
a week that you get to hear
us, you also get this episode,

836
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:21.000
the regular episode you are listening to
at this very moment, completely ad free.

837
00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:23.320
Now that's cool. Five bucks a
month seems worth it to me.

838
00:58:23.360 --> 00:58:27.199
Why don't you join us by clicking
that link below and become a member of

839
00:58:27.239 --> 00:58:31.599
Bigfoot and Beyond and be part of
our Beyond Bigfoot and Beyond community. Yeah,

840
00:58:31.599 --> 00:58:34.960
I was gonna have a million questions
for you to you, John,

841
00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:37.119
but I haven't actually read your Bookkeet, I'm embarrassed to say, because I've

842
00:58:37.159 --> 00:58:43.280
heard nothing but outstanding reviews of it
and I got to read it now excellent.

843
00:58:43.400 --> 00:58:45.599
I'd be very happy to hear your
take on it. Yeah, of

844
00:58:45.639 --> 00:58:49.079
course you can get it a pretty
pretty much everywhere. But also I want

845
00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:52.239
to point out you can get at
the NABC store as well, So we'll

846
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:53.880
put that link in the show notes
as well. Thanks so much, guys

847
00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:57.360
for having me on. It was
real pleasure. Thanks for coming on,

848
00:58:57.400 --> 00:59:00.199
and of course thank you also,
oddly enough, for being a listener of

849
00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:01.679
the podcast. I mean, I
say it all the time in the podcast,

850
00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:06.920
I legitimately forget there's anybody listening.
I'm just hanging out with you know,

851
00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:09.320
Bobo and Matt and whoever our guests
is. So okay, folks,

852
00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:13.880
that was John Zada. Thanks so
much for joining us, John, and

853
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:16.679
we're going to join them now in
the Patreon sess. So, thank you

854
00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:25.719
all for listening, and y'all keep
it squatchy. Thanks for listening to this

855
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:30.639
week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
If you liked what you heard, please

856
00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:35.119
rate and review us on iTunes,
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857
00:59:35.119 --> 00:59:39.480
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858
00:59:39.960 --> 00:59:45.039
You can find us on Twitter at
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859
00:59:45.079 --> 01:00:01.639
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