WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:04.759 You'll be away five seventeen. Do you want to report a UFO it? 2 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:09.439 We don't want to report every thirty one. Do you wish to report a 3 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:15.439 UFO over hey, we want to one of those data areas thirty one. 4 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:19.280 Do you wish to find a report of any kind of it? I wouldn't 5 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:24.960 know what kind of reports clouds, time areas thirty one me neither. There 6 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:30.480 were seven one golf. If it was anybody a U above us to pass 7 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:33.520 us, like thirty seconds ago, we were sending one top of golf negative, 8 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:39.719 Okay, OFFI the UFO. Yeah, it's murder two nine o'clock. 9 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:44.119 Yes, I'll just passed over God. I don't know what it was, 10 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:47.320 but it's from at least to three thousand feet above us. See, I 11 00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:54.000 passed out over the top of US ninety one one. Guy, you just 12 00:00:54.000 --> 00:01:02.560 called up to me? The four they're after staying the airplanes he is to 13 00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:07.799 god more calm on an unidentified object every liberty four call or calm on an 14 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:19.280 unidentified flying object. A Welcome to UFO Chronicles a place where people share their 15 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:25.680 experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had an encounter, I would 16 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:30.879 like to be on the show. You can email me at UFO Chronicles at 17 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:51.599 gmail dot com. Hello everyone, and welcome to the show. How are 18 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:55.040 you all doing this week? I am the counter and this is a UFO 19 00:01:55.159 --> 00:02:00.280 Chronicles podcast. California is our destination to night as we hear from James and 20 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:04.319 he has been the experience of probably as early as six years old and has 21 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:09.919 had several abduction encounters and recalls being taken on a regular basis. James is 22 00:02:10.039 --> 00:02:14.400 up next, but first, if you enjoyed a show and you would like 23 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:17.199 to help support the podcast on Patreon, you can do this for as little 24 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:22.879 as one dollar a month. Head on over to patreon dot com forward slash 25 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:27.080 UFO Chronicles podcast. You can also find a link in the description of this 26 00:02:27.159 --> 00:02:46.599 episode. Any help is very much appreciated. Now on the show, Hello 27 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:51.680 Jim, welcome to the show. Well, thank you very much, very 28 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:53.879 happy to be here. It is great to have you with us today. 29 00:02:53.919 --> 00:03:00.719 And you're calling from sunny California, well reading the California today, but normally 30 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:04.960 Sonny, what's the chance raindy California? Okay, Now, do you have 31 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:07.840 some experiences you're going to be sharing with us? Would you like to start 32 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:10.639 at the beginning, please sir. Yeah, I sort of call myself just 33 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:17.479 a typical experience er because we've all had, you know, similarities between their 34 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:23.439 experiences. Mine started. My first remember one was when I was five and 35 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:30.280 a half reears old. We were out on a family parcel of about twenty 36 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:35.879 eight where the family homestead burned down a few years before, and we were 37 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:40.280 building a cabin there, a sort of rough house, you know, not 38 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:44.919 a when you live in all the time, when it was more like camping, 39 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:50.520 and we were sitting outside it was oh, let's see, probably I 40 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:53.520 don't know. I was five and a half, so that would have been 41 00:03:53.560 --> 00:04:00.240 fifty eight. All the adults and the teenagers looked down. I was a 42 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:04.400 hyperactive five and a half year old, and so they told me to start 43 00:04:04.439 --> 00:04:09.919 looking for snake. And so I was watching the sky and that kept me 44 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:15.520 occupied for a while. It was a weekend before I started kindergarten, as 45 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:17.720 one of the reasons I remember it so well. And all of a sudden 46 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:24.560 we had this object flying above a past year next to where we were. 47 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:29.920 There about seven or eight of it, and it was, oh, maybe 48 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:33.360 five hundred to one thousand feet away from us, A five year old desired 49 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:41.279 to estimate, but it was stuff sparks, and the field was dry because 50 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:45.360 it was the end of the summer and nothing was starting on fire. And 51 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:50.240 I remember looking up at my dad and my uncle and aunt and their kids, 52 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:56.959 and they were just staring at it with their mouths open, just frozen, 53 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:00.199 sort of like a Steven Spielberg movie when they you know, he always 54 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:10.079 was good at showing average looking people in unusual situations. And that's the last 55 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:15.040 I remember. And the next morning, you know, getting out of bed, 56 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:17.959 and we all come out and sit around the ramp fire while the adults 57 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:25.560 are drinking coffee and we're drinking water, and the adults are all talking about 58 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:31.279 the comet. We saw how amazing it was, and not knowing anything different, 59 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:35.000 I thought a comet was something, you know, the size of a 60 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:41.040 full moon five hundred feet away, you know, throwing sparks off. And 61 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:48.000 I actually talked to Colonel Halt, who was in Rendelsom Forest, because what 62 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:54.600 it looked like was a lot like what he described, and they were all 63 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:59.480 talking about the comet, and so everyone packed up and we had the head 64 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:03.879 back into town. Next morning, I'm starting kindergarten and I asked my dad 65 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:09.959 what he thought of the comment. So I brought that up again and he 66 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:13.800 said, what comment? O, what you're talking about? And no one 67 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:18.680 else had any memory of it except me, And I must have had missing 68 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:26.600 time, because I go from watching my family to waking up next morning, 69 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:33.160 and that stuck with me. And I remember in school about comments, and 70 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:36.800 always in the back of my mind is that didn't make sense. And I 71 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:42.639 remember a comment when I was in college was visible and I looked up at 72 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:46.600 it and I was so depointed, and I got to thinking, how the 73 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:49.160 heck could I think of a comet could fly over a cow past here? 74 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:55.439 I don't know, And so I never figured that out. So I as 75 00:06:55.600 --> 00:07:01.160 kid, I had a lot of strange experiences where my parents took me to 76 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:06.839 the doctor because I was a sleepwalker, and I'd end outside and knocking the 77 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:13.199 door to be let back in. And so I don't remember too many experiences 78 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:16.839 around there. But when I was seventeen, I was playing basketball with some 79 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:23.439 friends over the backyard and walk back home and decided, you know, I'm 80 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:26.839 just going to go lay in the park. And so I go and lay 81 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.600 down in a park. But the funny thing about is I'm laying down where 82 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:35.839 they're planting grass, and the head I'm laying on pete moss, which is 83 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:41.720 really stupid when you're sweaty after playing basketball. And I look up in the 84 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:46.720 sky, perfectly clear night, and I see this. You know, a 85 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:49.879 lot of stars in the sky, so the sky is black, but it's 86 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:57.800 not black. And I see this lenticular shaped object just above a hillside, 87 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:03.680 about five miles from the house where a daytime airport was. And I'm thinking, 88 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:09.560 that's a weird time for a plane to be flying, especially one with 89 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:13.519 no lights. I realized it's moving too slow. It must be a helicopter, 90 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:18.560 and it started heading towards Los Angeles. I was living in a suburb 91 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:24.079 of Los Angeles called San Dimas, made famous by Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. 92 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:30.240 So I start I'm watching this object and it stands out because it's darker 93 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:35.919 than than the background. And I'm thinking to myself, it's not a plane. 94 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:41.000 It's not a helicopter. I would hear it because I'm close enough, 95 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:46.039 and it's so quiet, you know, I'm thinking, I'm not talking out 96 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:48.919 loud. I say to myself, it must be a you. Oh, 97 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:54.600 And before I even finish the Oh, it just all of a sudden does 98 00:08:54.639 --> 00:09:01.399 the streedge thirty three or so turned towards me and starts descending in a straight 99 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:05.879 line right towards me, and I lose it for a second, but then 100 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:09.759 reacquire it. There are very few things I remember as well as this, 101 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:16.120 and it ends up above me, and I reached down pepper rock that was 102 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:20.919 like one of those rocks it fits around your fingerpicked and you keep it a 103 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:26.399 curd pond and throw it straight up above me, and the rock nearly hits 104 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:28.960 me in the head and falls down. And so it must have been above 105 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:33.919 seventy five feet because I could have thrown the rock that far, and when 106 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.480 it's right above, it's about thirty If it was one hundred feet up, 107 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.679 it was thirty feet across. But it was a perfectly ray from the side. 108 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:46.320 It was just it looked articular. And then all of a sudden, 109 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:52.600 I'm watching it goes over me, and it goes over the mountain in the 110 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:58.320 direction north of LA And so I go home, don't mention my parents, 111 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:03.120 go right to bed, wake up the next day, and I'm all excited, 112 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:07.600 but I know I've seen something, but I forgot about it for a 113 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:13.679 while, and fifty years later, fifty five years later, I think it 114 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:18.799 was I get regressed by Von Smith and before I went to the right, 115 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:24.919 she runs this clost Encounters Resource organization in Los Angeles, and just before I 116 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:30.639 drove to her office from where I live in San Diego, I went by 117 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:35.919 the work and I'm standing there thinking it went straight over my head and I 118 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:41.200 just watched it go, and then I realized it went over a water tower 119 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:48.559 this to my right. How could that be? So she does the regression, 120 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:54.759 I don't recover any memories. I'm blocked about the actual I see everything 121 00:10:54.799 --> 00:11:00.759 in perfect detail up until the time it gets over my head, and then 122 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:05.759 the next thing I see it head off. But the one thing I realized 123 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:13.000 from the regression wasn't seeing anything like nonter trial is or anything. What the 124 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:18.200 regression and the abilities in order to recall told me is I I'm facing one 125 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:22.799 way, and then a millisecond later, I'm facing a totally different direction. 126 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:26.919 And so in my mind's eye when I think about it, it was going 127 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:33.840 directly behind me in a straight line, but actually it stopped above me and 128 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.320 then made a turn to the right. I was like they put me back 129 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:43.240 facing a different direction. And then through high school and the rest of high 130 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:48.000 school and college, I really didn't have any experiences, but sort of stopped 131 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:54.960 there. That's when I started having these things. And those two instances really 132 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:01.759 stuck out a lot of my close friends. I swore I never talked to 133 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:05.399 anyone about it, but a few of my college friends, mostly my college 134 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.600 friends were a little older than me that went to Vietnam and came back and 135 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:13.440 then went to college. A couple of them said, yeah, you talk 136 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:18.799 about it all the time, and I really don't remember, you know, 137 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.679 discussing it much. But once I got into my about my mid thirties, 138 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:33.480 then experiences started accelerating up through my mid forties. When I was thirty nine, 139 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:39.159 I was appointed City Attorney of Fresno, California, and it's a big 140 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:43.600 job, and so I was very concentrated on it. It had a lot 141 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:50.679 of additional political problems. After I was hired, A lot of people got 142 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:56.000 elected to the council that were corrupt, and so I was constantly battling with 143 00:12:56.039 --> 00:13:01.879 them, and it was a very tough job. I had a large staff 144 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:09.480 was worried about, but they didn't seem to care the entities that were dealing 145 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:15.600 with me, because I started being taken sometimes two, three times a week. 146 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:22.120 And what really stood out to me wasn't so much any experience I had, 147 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:26.679 but the after effects I'd have when i'd come back. One night, 148 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:33.840 I'm walking after a city council meeting in a summer night when it's cooler. 149 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:37.799 In Presdo is a hot place. I started noticing that every time I walked 150 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:41.720 under a street light, it would go off and it was pitch dark. 151 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:48.600 And this happened twenty street lamps in a row. And if that doesn't unnerve 152 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.279 you, I don't know. And then I started having paranormal experiences too, 153 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:58.120 ghosts. One time, I'm walking on the sidewalk in front of my house 154 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:01.879 and I'm not living in an old house. I'm living in a tract home 155 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:05.639 that was built in nineteen ninety one, it was or ninety eighty nine, 156 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:13.600 it was like nineteen ninety five, ninety six. I'm walking along the sidewalk 157 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:20.960 just to get a little fresh air, and this guy in a gray nineteen 158 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.039 forty suit pushes past me. He doesn't touch me, but it's like he's 159 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:30.159 trying to push me and just is annoyed, walks away, and then he 160 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:35.440 totally disappears. It just vanishes, but like I was in his way and 161 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.200 he was trying to go, and he just kept walking and was upset with 162 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:45.759 me. And we had people who would come dogs sit for us while we 163 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:52.159 were out of town, and a couple that would do it a lot finally 164 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:54.480 said, we're not doing it anymore. We're retired of too many weird things 165 00:14:54.519 --> 00:15:01.000 happen in your house. You know, TV's turning on three o'clock in the 166 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:03.360 morning. They didn't do that to us, but they did to people that 167 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:09.200 stayed there. So I had a lot of paranormal experiences at the time, 168 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:16.159 and I had one instance that particularly stood out. I left the City of 169 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.600 Fresno. I was at a council meeting in a rural community and it was 170 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:28.480 the week before the election. And usually that you know, the city manager 171 00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:33.360 puts non controversial items on because you don't want to create problems for the you 172 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:37.159 know, before the voting starts for your council members. But this was a 173 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:41.639 very contentious meeting, and I remember all about it. And then I drove 174 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:46.759 home and I got home late, maybe midnight, and so I went in 175 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:52.840 the walk in closet and changed into what I was wearing to bed so I 176 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:56.159 wouldn't wake my wife up, and then I hit the pillow fall asleep. 177 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:03.600 The next thing I remember, I'm standing on the sidewalk out front of the 178 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:12.080 house. It's about ten twelve degrees or forty in fahrenheit somewhere around there forty 179 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:18.960 five fifty and the wind was blowing across, and I was in boxer shorts 180 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:26.039 and T shirt. And as soon as I came awake or became aware where 181 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:30.039 I was, I said to them out loud, so that's what they looked 182 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:34.240 like. And so I look at the front door and I go, I've 183 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.480 got to remember all this. And at the time I was saying this, 184 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:45.799 there was a bright, whiter than sunlight above my head. Yet I didn't 185 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:51.799 look up. I was walking along thinking to myself, I've got to remember 186 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.159 all this. And so I remember the hairs of my legs blowing and they 187 00:16:55.159 --> 00:17:00.240 were cold. I remember taking steps in the barefoot on the cemit walkway, 188 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:07.920 and I remember going up and reaching the door handle and thinking, God, 189 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:12.519 I hope this thing's open. And I walked into the house and go to 190 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:18.480 bed. And the next morning I didn't have to work, and I actually 191 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:22.799 taken off two weeks because with the election and the follow up, there weren't 192 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:29.000 going to be any council meetings, and so I had scheduled two legal seminars 193 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.960 out of town and had all my clients, you know, realizing because back 194 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:37.160 then I can't I think I had a primitive cell phone, but it was 195 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.599 hard to get in touch with people back then. And so the next morning 196 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:47.640 I woke up and the entire room was not spinning. It was like it 197 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:52.680 was going from left or right across my field division and then jump back to 198 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.519 the beginning. And this kept up, and within an hour, I probably 199 00:17:56.599 --> 00:18:03.240 threw up about two hundred times, and my wife got me into our doctor 200 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:07.440 on an emergency basis that morning, just in his office, he said that 201 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:11.680 I probably had a virus or got a blow to the head. And I 202 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:15.519 didn't say to him, you know, I just got dropped off by a 203 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:22.319 spaceship, you know, being a city attorney and doing working for politicians, 204 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.480 you don't say things like that, even to your doctor or anyone at that 205 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:30.759 point. And so for the next two weeks, I wasn't I couldn't drive, 206 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:36.319 I took any nausea medication and eventually it went away, and it was 207 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:40.440 something in my inner ear. The doctor said either it, like I said, 208 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:42.880 either a virus or a blow to the head. And so about two 209 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:51.359 weeks later I was starting to regain my focus and I noticed that I had 210 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:56.400 two scars right here, perfectly formed that I never had before, deep scars. 211 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.799 You know, I had no idea where they came from. I have 212 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:03.799 a similar scar on the other side that's not nearly as deep, and it's 213 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:10.160 taken seventy one years to form. This one just appeared overnight, and so 214 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:14.240 it always stuck with me. I just never figured out what happened. I 215 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:18.960 had a good suspicion, but why would they got my head open there? 216 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:25.240 And so I was regressed by Von Smith, you know, about twenty thirty 217 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:32.160 years later on this, and I actually saw something because I've been regressed several 218 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:36.480 times, and you know, if on jokes that I'm a lawyer and so 219 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:41.519 I'm I'm not used to taking directions, I get a lot before and after. 220 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:47.279 But in this case, I actually got a little bit. During what 221 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:52.559 I think was my abduction, my body basically it came from the head down 222 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.319 to the toe, just froze, you know, and I couldn't move, 223 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.400 but I could move my eyelids a little little bit, and they were closed, 224 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:04.279 but the light I could see a light in a room, and so 225 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:10.759 I struggled to just barely open my eyes, and I saw the top half 226 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:17.279 of an entity, maybe an inch or so from my face, staring right 227 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:25.200 at me, and it had the typical big almond eyes wrap around like wrap 228 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:30.359 around sunglasses. And then it moved back, and then there was some sort 229 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.440 of boomerang type object that I could just see a shadow of with my eyes 230 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:37.839 closed in intense light where you can see through your eyelids, you know, 231 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:44.640 like looking into a bright light. And when this, when I saw this, 232 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:49.799 it was this boomerang was like moving in a circular pattern one direction. 233 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:56.519 And then after a couple of minutes, I saw it again and it was 234 00:20:56.599 --> 00:21:00.160 moving the opposite direction, and so I really couldn't figure but it was right 235 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:07.200 over at the spot where I ended up seeing the scars later and with Vaughan. 236 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:12.079 After I had the regression, I went home, drove back down to 237 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:19.680 San Diego from her office in Laceagnata, near Los Angeles, and I decided, 238 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:23.960 you know, I wanted to read something. I was too wound up 239 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:27.680 to go to sleep, so I went in. I had just finished a 240 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:32.759 book and didn't have a new one. This is the before kindle. So 241 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:36.519 what I did is I went into my bookshelf with a lot of these books 242 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:41.400 that are behind me right now on UFOs, and I looked for bookmarks, 243 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:45.440 because a lot of times I would read a book and then stop and buy 244 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.480 another one and never finish the first one. And so I saw one. 245 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:56.200 It was Whitley Strieber's Communion Letters and had a bookmark in it. So I 246 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:00.279 just picked it up and started reading from where the bookmark was, and so 247 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.880 I read about three pages, and that helped put me. This relaxed me, 248 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.480 and I went to sleep, and so I read to the end of 249 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:10.480 a chapter, and then the next morning I took it to breakfast with me 250 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:18.200 to read. And the next chapter was about a guy who wrote to Whitley 251 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:23.839 to tell him he had had a weird experience where he was taken he was 252 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:33.079 frozen. He saw a boomerang shaped object go one direction and it pulled open 253 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:40.839 his scalp and they dropped some crystals or something that looked, you know, 254 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:48.359 like an emerald or something like that into the whole the hole that they'd made 255 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:56.000 in his head, and then they waved the wand back and in that recovered 256 00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:00.400 that put his skin back in perfect place. He asked Whitley of it, 257 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:06.200 and had ever heard of that? And I'm gobsmacked at that point because I 258 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:10.079 looked at the bookmark, because I always like to use I used to use 259 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:15.039 re seats for bookmarks, and I had bought the book a year before I 260 00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:19.559 had the incident in nineteen ninety seven. The incident was in nineteen ninety eight, 261 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:26.839 but I had stopped reading the chapter before, and so I was reading 262 00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:30.960 it for the first time, and the guy had the same experience I had. 263 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:34.720 He had a little more detail, and so that one has probably stood 264 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:40.680 out more than any I've ever had. So we moved to San Diego, 265 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:45.519 and that didn't stop the experiences. We live out in the country in rural 266 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:52.519 San Diego County, and you know, they always have your forwarding address, 267 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:56.119 they always know where you are. And so I had a lot of incidents, 268 00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:04.160 but they started to change somewhat. I would have more sort of symbolic 269 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:11.200 things happen. Like a couple of examples, I'm with a group of SERO 270 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:19.079 members from LA at the International UFO Conference in Arizona, and we're all sitting 271 00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:26.160 around outside of the facility and the dark, you know, in chairs, 272 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:32.160 and I'd snuck a bottle of wine down from my room because of the bar 273 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:36.880 stop serving people outside, and so we're all having a great time, and 274 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:41.839 then we all go to bed excited about the next day's program. The next 275 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:48.960 day, every member of our group had something weird happen, and it was 276 00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:56.359 interesting because when they knew the time, it was like we each had fifteen 277 00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:03.920 minute ingrements. My instance was I was laying in bed and it was about 278 00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:08.160 three point thirty. I want to say three thirty three because that happens a 279 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:11.920 lot, but I can't remember the exact time, but it was about three 280 00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:19.400 thirty and between myself where IM laying in bed and the TV. Not in 281 00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:27.279 the TV, a three dimensional, oblong object just appeared in front of me 282 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:34.119 and had sort of like a mist of light. It sort of formed into 283 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:38.440 a circle and then it showed and then all of a sudden it appeared and 284 00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:45.079 I could have reached out and touched it, but I was just amazed because 285 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.200 it was like right at the foot of my bed up in the air was 286 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:55.400 like a two foot domino, but on the top half of the domino it 287 00:25:55.519 --> 00:26:00.680 had a classic UFO, you know, it's lenticular shape. It had like 288 00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:08.960 a light beam cut into the sort of the metallic looking domino, going down 289 00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:15.759 and pointing down, and then into the second half of the domino like object, 290 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:26.200 there was a DNA strand. But instead of the normal number of DNA 291 00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:30.720 you know, ribbons or whatever they are, there were hundreds of them. 292 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:34.119 And I said to myself, I've got to remember this. I've got to 293 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:40.759 this means something. I need to remember this, and I just kept saying 294 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:47.519 that to myself and the bottom half of the domino disappeared. Top half stayed 295 00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:52.200 there for a few seconds. As soon as the bottom half disappeared, I 296 00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:57.559 forgot everything that it was accepted. It was shaped like around the laser beam 297 00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:04.839 or whatever it was. The DNA strands had some message and I totally forgot 298 00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:11.200 where it was immediately. And other people, one couple had a bunch of 299 00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:15.440 rocks that they their kids have been playing with, and when they came back 300 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:19.240 out, they were all piled in a stack. Now that could have been 301 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:23.599 anyone, but we all had something happen weird, and a lot of us, 302 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:30.960 frankly, theyver talked to each other again. Afterwards we sort of separated, 303 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:33.519 not everyone in the group, but a lot of us, you know, 304 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:38.160 sort of left the group. And it was it was interesting how that 305 00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:44.680 happened. But I've had a couple of times with symbols like that, and 306 00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:52.319 it always starts with sort of an oblong shaped object. I've even had a 307 00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:57.039 paranormal experience like this one time and then something appears out of it. So 308 00:27:57.799 --> 00:28:03.640 and so something was told to me, and Ivonne used to say, when 309 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:07.440 the time comes, you'll remember when you need to know, you will, 310 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:12.359 and she's here that for many experiences, and so had that, and then 311 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:19.319 a lot of my experiences, I'd say lately skipping ahead are more synchronistic things 312 00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:26.599 or more you know, coincidences, that kind of thing. Like one time 313 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:33.920 I was laying in bed reading a book called Owls and Synchronicity by Mike Cleveland, 314 00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:37.720 and my wife goes, what are you reading? And I said, 315 00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:42.440 a book about owls and synchronicity. What's that? Well, it's sort of 316 00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:48.200 how ols tend to be involved in a lot of paranormal activity. And as 317 00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:55.599 soon as I start talking about it, an owl on our roof right above 318 00:28:55.720 --> 00:29:00.480 us starts hooting, and then at the other end of the house, cornered 319 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:06.400 from where we're sleeping, another owl starts hooting back to them, and it 320 00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:11.039 goes back and forth for about five minutes. And that's never we have owls 321 00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:15.839 around here. But I've never had that kind of behavior before, and it 322 00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:27.720 was right whenever I was talking about owls and sicker in his city. Are 323 00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:33.160 you intrigued by paranormal talk radio? You love the new Paranormal Radio app from 324 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:40.240 talkstream Live. You'll find a great selection of talk shows covering UFOs, ghosts, 325 00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:45.440 strange phenomena, and much more. Download the Paranormal Radio app now and 326 00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:49.200 start listening to the very best in paranormal talk entertainment, including the network you're 327 00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:55.319 listening to right now. The Paranormal Radio app free in Google Play and the 328 00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:11.119 iOS app Store. Probably my most eventful series of paranormal experiences happened in twenty 329 00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:17.119 nineteen. I was a bunch of us in zero decided to go up to 330 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:23.079 Pine Ridge, South Dakota, to the Igalassiu Reservation. There go to a 331 00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:30.319 consciousness seminar. It was rough facilities, It was a lot of fun. 332 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:34.400 We most of us slept in a bunk house, co ed bunk house, 333 00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:41.359 and people from all over the country, and it was very nice and I 334 00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:47.119 can't think of a person that didn't have a paranormal experience there. Whitley Strieber 335 00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:51.880 was one of the presenters. He was there too, and he's talked about 336 00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:56.240 his shows a lot. The people I met that I was closest to during 337 00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:03.119 those three days I'm still friends with today. One of my experiences was it 338 00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:07.559 wasn't I didn't. A lot of people saw UFOs. I didn't see one 339 00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:15.119 of those. But on the last night, Whitley was talking after dinner. 340 00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:21.640 It was a Sunday night, and I was sitting at the door wondering when 341 00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:25.599 it's going to start. It was a little disorganized, and the head of 342 00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:27.839 the house, Dallas Chief Eagle, was sitting on the other side of the 343 00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:34.720 door from me, and Whitley walked past us put his leather jacket down right 344 00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:41.880 next to me. The screen door was shut on the on the place, 345 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:48.960 but all of a sudden, coming through the door and flying in sort of 346 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:55.279 a looping pattern, was a white moth. And while most of the people 347 00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:59.519 were you know, would hang with each other. I sort of hung out 348 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:04.359 warnings, you know, and around, you know, times when things were 349 00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:09.720 happening or people were gathering. I would sit with the locals who were working 350 00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:15.319 the event, and we'd sit out and they'd drink coffee and smoke cigarettes, 351 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:19.839 and we'd talk about, you know, how the leaves turn. And I 352 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:22.799 grew up in the country, so we had a lot in common. So 353 00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:25.680 I had more fun doing that other than the paranormal stuff. So I got 354 00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:30.799 used to seeing the types of animals and insects or around there. And I'd 355 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:36.559 never seen a white moth like this. And it flew in this up and 356 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:40.400 down pattern, and it when it got leather jacket, it just disappeared. 357 00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:45.279 Throw my mouth open and can't believe it. And I turn over the Dallas 358 00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:51.920 Chief Ehicle, who was a pretty mellow person and not one to you know, 359 00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:55.319 display a lot of emotion around strangers, and he said, did you 360 00:32:55.400 --> 00:33:00.039 see it too? And what he saw is this moth flying that he a 361 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:06.720 kind that he'd never seen before, and he sought fly into Whitley's jacket. 362 00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:09.920 I saw it disappeared just before, but we were at different angles, and 363 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:15.839 so we're sitting there trying to figure out what happened. Whitley comes, picks 364 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:21.640 up his jacket, puts it on, walks up to the front where he's 365 00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:25.039 going to give his presentation, and says, let me start by showing a 366 00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:32.200 short video. And he shows a video from some holiday event his website group 367 00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:39.400 or his employees or helpers all had and his wife hand had died that year. 368 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:46.880 And so the video he's showing is a white moth coming doing the same 369 00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:53.319 pattern I saw flying through the room. And then planeted itself on a particular 370 00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:59.680 individual that Anne Streeper had liked a lot. You know, there was you 371 00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:04.960 know, he was very helpful to her, and he was Jeremy Valarry I 372 00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:07.639 think his name is, and so. And then they showed two or three 373 00:34:07.760 --> 00:34:15.239 more videos with the same white moth flying in the same pattern that other friends 374 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:19.239 of Whitley had seen. They took the picture of you know, like took 375 00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:22.760 their cell phone cameras and took picture of it, sent it to him and 376 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:25.639 said, you're not gonna believe me, Whitley, but this is Anne sending 377 00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:32.199 me a message. And so I never talked to Whitley about it. You 378 00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:36.360 know a lot of you know, when someone's famous like that. At an 379 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:39.800 event like that, they get crowded around, and having worked for politicians, 380 00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.840 I know to keep my distance from people and let them have their own space. 381 00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:49.920 So that was probably one of the more interesting things that's happened to me, 382 00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:52.400 even though it was just you know, some people say, well, 383 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:58.360 it's just an insect. I think after Anstreebwerd passed, I think she was 384 00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:01.559 a very big help on the aside to Whitley, Yeah, I agree. 385 00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:06.519 Yeah, I'm a subscriber to his, but I'm not a big watcher of 386 00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:10.599 those kinds of programs, so I tend to rotate around my subscriptions and watch 387 00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:14.719 them for three or four times and then go back to reading. I can 388 00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:19.599 read faster than I can listen to people talk. Yeah, he's talked about 389 00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:22.280 it often. I've been meaning to get him on the show for years. 390 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:28.719 The biggest problem is obviously extraordinarily busy in any case, but because this show 391 00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:31.679 basically runs on emails, so as people reaching out to me, so it 392 00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:36.480 leaves me very little time or space to actually reach out to people. It 393 00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:39.960 does happen now and again, but I remember right into Whitley because of the 394 00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:46.039 Communion book I think it was nineteen ninety two or nineteen ninety three, and 395 00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:51.559 it was to do with my father's experiences. So I'd written to Whitley and 396 00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:53.719 I still have the same book I had all those years ago, and I 397 00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:58.159 actually got a reply. It was a type to reply. It was just 398 00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:02.480 basically saying that we've received the experiences and we've now added them to the I 399 00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:07.119 think it was the Communion Foundation, which was a group of scientists that were 400 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:12.639 processing all this this information. And I still have that same letter after all 401 00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:15.800 these years as a bookmark in the book. So when I do eventually get 402 00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:20.840 Whitley on, I will ask him, you know, whatever become of the 403 00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:25.360 foundation, I think that as files are at RICE to University in Houston, 404 00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:30.559 Texas, that's my memory of where they are. Okay to look into that, 405 00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:34.119 and that is that selective? Do you know? No, there are 406 00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:38.360 several universities that actually have RICE has that. And I also actually did have 407 00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:42.880 Mike on as well, the owl guy. He's likes to be known, 408 00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:45.880 and it was good having him on because after that I'd have people saying where 409 00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:50.840 can I contact Mike? I too have been seeing hours I've had this happen 410 00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:54.280 and so it's great having Mic on and all the synchronisties, which is a 411 00:36:54.320 --> 00:36:59.159 recurring theme in all this, as well as the symbols. I think it's 412 00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:02.159 a good way if is communication is exactly what it is. Do you recall 413 00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:07.840 any of the messages they were trying to relate to you? I know you 414 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:09.400 said it will. If it hasn't, it may come to you in the 415 00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:15.000 future. But is Do you believe there's any particular reason you were in contact? 416 00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:23.760 Yes, I think the purpose for me is to continue to go Congress 417 00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:30.280 into doing something about the UAP. I honestly think that My sixty fifth birthday 418 00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:37.639 was December sixteenth, twenty seventeen. That's the day the Politico in the New 419 00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:45.000 York Times released the three videos that luel Azando got declassified. An interesting time 420 00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:52.159 for me because for twenty five years I had told people that when I retire, 421 00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:57.599 I was going to write a book about California election law, because there 422 00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:02.199 is no guide to how to handle election cases in California, which is a 423 00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:07.280 very You know, California is bigger than a lot of countries, and from 424 00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:12.360 watching the US from Afar, you can tell that we have a lot of 425 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:16.559 really bad election attorneys, and so that was my goal always to do that. 426 00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:23.440 And this my birthday, my sixty fifth birthday, had this event basically 427 00:38:23.559 --> 00:38:29.920 changed everything and we've been living with it ever since. And as soon as 428 00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:36.679 that happened, a switch flipped in me and I started writing my current book 429 00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:46.719 about the Robertson panel and how the debunking started against people that study UFOs or 430 00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:52.519 have not just lights in the sky but structured craft pictures, that kind of 431 00:38:52.559 --> 00:39:00.480 thing. And I worked on that for up until twenty twenty, and then 432 00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:07.960 in June or twenty twenty, the Senate Intelligence Committee, through its chair Marco 433 00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:14.480 Rubio, the Republican from Florida, asked the Office of the Director of National 434 00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:20.639 Intelligence to give them an update on what they're doing, what's going on about 435 00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:27.840 UAP. And once that came out, I dropped my book and started writing 436 00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:32.559 another book, which I finished in six months from start to finish, called 437 00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:39.519 the UFO Briefing Book, Congressional Guide to the UAP Phenomenon, and I had 438 00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:45.599 itself published, but my purpose wasn't to sell books, and so what I 439 00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:52.159 did is I bought three hundred copies and sent over two hundred to Congress, 440 00:39:52.320 --> 00:40:00.239 to members of the National Security Committees sent them each one and a follow up 441 00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:04.960 letter, and then I sent about fifty or seventy five to the press, 442 00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:09.280 which was a total waste of time. And I got it published and sent 443 00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:14.719 to Congress by the end of April two thousand and twenty one. And then 444 00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:20.480 the report, the UAP report from the UAP Task Scores, through the Office 445 00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:24.199 of the Director of National Intelligence, was distributed, and so I gave them 446 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:29.400 sort of a here's what's going to happen. They're gonna slow walk everything. 447 00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:32.559 They're gonna delay. They're not gonna tell you everything. You're gonna have to 448 00:40:32.559 --> 00:40:37.599 find it for yourself. You're gonna have to do things like, you know, 449 00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:44.000 make special provisions to protect whistle blowers. You're gonna have to make special 450 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:51.119 provisions to require them to start releasing UFO documents. You have to have special 451 00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:55.400 protections. You have to set up a procedure. And so I used my 452 00:40:55.519 --> 00:41:00.719 government background to come up with the things they needed to do. Now I'm 453 00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:04.920 talking about the book. Farmer retired city manager who read it for me, 454 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:07.679 who has no interest in the field. After he finished it, he said, 455 00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:12.679 Jim, that's just one hundred and twenty eight page staff report, you 456 00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:16.519 know, And the joke has always been I just crossed out wastewater treatment plant 457 00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:23.639 and put in UAP. So the legislation largely follows what I was recommending. 458 00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:28.880 Now I'm talking about the book. It really I never did a kindle version. 459 00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:34.920 I went on two podcasts and found it to be a waste of time. 460 00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:38.960 I wasn't going to because it was written more in bureaucrat ease, and 461 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:45.920 the goal was to move the ball, because we don't till recently, there 462 00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:52.159 are no think tanks, there's no political platform for UAP for either party, 463 00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:55.800 there's no academic institutions to write about it, and so why not me. 464 00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:01.639 I was a pretty good writer as a you know, writing staff reports, 465 00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:07.639 appellet briefs, those kinds of legal documents. But I tried to draft something 466 00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:15.119 with an audience in mind of about two hundred people. And so I sent 467 00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:19.599 that out and never heard a word back. But I sent a copy to 468 00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:22.400 Harry Reid. He was retired, and it was about three months before he 469 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:28.079 passed away, and he sent me an encouraging note saying that he was he 470 00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:34.199 thought the book was done well and that he would thank my interest in this 471 00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:38.880 vital subject and that was my big Now it's funny. I've written other letters 472 00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:46.280 to Congress where people will send me, please send this form of letter to 473 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:52.239 Congress. And so I've done the generic form letter that people do and I've 474 00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:57.920 gotten responses from Congress on those. Thank you for your response, and it's 475 00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:02.800 always Diane Feinstein, the late senator from California, came up with the form 476 00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:09.800 letter on UAP, and now every Congressman and senator has some variation of it. 477 00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:15.199 And so being working in politics for forty years, you can spot a 478 00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:22.559 form letter pretty quickly, and so I've gotten those, but I've through other 479 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:27.239 sources. I've heard that it had some influence, but the President doesn't call 480 00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:31.039 me. But but I'm happy they're moving the right direction. Whether I had 481 00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:36.159 anything to do with it or not. I did go back to my original 482 00:43:36.199 --> 00:43:42.159 book and that's the one that's out now. Just came out and it's called 483 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:47.679 threat to the Body Politic, food Fighters to UAP. Threat to the Body 484 00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:55.840 Politic is a shortened version of a quote out of the Robertson Panels report that 485 00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:04.159 interest in UFO study is a threat to the protective organs of the body politic 486 00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:10.159 and that's what gave license to them, recommending that UFO groups be watched and 487 00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:20.360 that the national security agencies should be given the authority to take away the aura 488 00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:27.480 that is around that the subject has unfortunately required. And so I was reading 489 00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:32.599 lots of books about the Robertson panel, but they're all about how they got 490 00:44:32.599 --> 00:44:37.960 it wrong, that UFOs are real, but no one looked at the civil 491 00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:45.760 liberties aspects of it. Because what I did is I trapped down through declassified 492 00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:53.639 records. I tracked down many instances where people would take a picture of UFO 493 00:44:54.480 --> 00:45:01.159 and it wasn't just any old UFO as one where a great picture up close, 494 00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:07.320 that kind of thing. One example, in nineteen sixty, a guy 495 00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:12.880 named Joseph Perry, who owned a pizza parlor in Flint, Michigan, was 496 00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:16.880 an amateur astronomer, and he took twenty pictures of the Moon one night in 497 00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:23.239 winter, clear winter night, which is great for skywatching. I guess eighteen 498 00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:29.440 of them were overexposed. One showed a picture of the moon, and according 499 00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:37.519 to the FBI files, one showed a unusual object that was somewhere between his 500 00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:42.840 telescope and the surface of the Moon. Is how they described it and it 501 00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:49.280 was basically a classic flying saucer. So Joseph Perry didn't know what he had 502 00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:53.119 filmed, wasn't interested in UFOs. Was ran a pizza parlor, You probably 503 00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:59.800 didn't have time to watch the news. So he took the picture in and 504 00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:07.239 ordered around a few of his customers and they said, that's a UFO and 505 00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:09.880 he goes, really, well, I better do something about that. So 506 00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:14.840 what he did is he went straight to the FBI office, the local FBI 507 00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:19.880 office in Detroit, and gave it to them and said, please take this 508 00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:25.480 to the proper authorities, and I want my picture back unless they tell me 509 00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:30.800 it's top secret. So the local FBI office, what they did is they 510 00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:35.599 sent it over to Selfridge Air Force Base, which is the nearest Air Force 511 00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:39.880 base to the office, the Air Force Office of Intelligence OSI it's called. 512 00:46:40.840 --> 00:46:46.039 So somehow, through one of his customers, it got into the news and 513 00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:51.400 they contacted him, and so he told the local paper about it. So 514 00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:58.280 Project blue Book at the time had a newspaper clipping service, and so they 515 00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:01.480 would look at newspapers from around the country. The one hundred and fifty eight 516 00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:07.039 newspapers on the clipping service, and that was before the Internet, and they 517 00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:12.840 would literally clip out articles and send it to the subscriber on the subject they 518 00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:17.920 wanted. And so it got out in the paper, and so all of 519 00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:23.360 a sudden, nicap and a bunch of UFO as Perry called them, societies 520 00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:30.239 came to talk to him interviewing and they all told him, you'll never get 521 00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:37.639 your pictures back. So he wrote a letter to President Eisenhower asking that the 522 00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:42.000 President make sure he gets his pictures back. Well, that created a big 523 00:47:42.079 --> 00:47:50.000 kerfuffle within eight days of him sending a letter from Detroit to Washington, d 524 00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:55.760 C. It went from the President's office to Jangar Hoover's desk in eight days, 525 00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:01.400 and Hoover wrote to the local FBI office and asked to be kept the 526 00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:08.639 prize. And so in the FBI files there are like twenty different documents about 527 00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:15.199 ten or twelve memos that went from the local office on a almost daily basis 528 00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:22.239 just to Jaugar Hoover, nobody else keeping him apprize what was going on. 529 00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:30.039 And eventually Hoover wrote directly to Joe Perry saying, we've done everything we can. 530 00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:36.039 The Air Force has your photo, please contact them from now on, 531 00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:40.800 and he took that and thanked the director wrote back and thanked the director and 532 00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:46.760 that it's all in the declassified files and the Air Force has nothing in its 533 00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:53.719 files about it. That was part of They had a program to basically find 534 00:48:53.760 --> 00:49:01.079 out through newspaper articles where good UFO pictures were taken. Air Force officers would 535 00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:07.679 show up take the pictures in the originals. And this is post World War 536 00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:13.360 two where people had real trust in the government, pre Vietnam War, pre 537 00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:17.760 Watergate, and so people just turn you know, people with They all had 538 00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:22.679 something in common. I have several chapters on this. They had no interest 539 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:27.159 in the subject ahead a time. They wanted to get their pictures to the 540 00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:30.840 authorities so the government could figure out what was going on. They would turn 541 00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:35.480 them over and never get them back, and if they complained, they were 542 00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:39.199 called hoaxters. So it was pretty much a common plan. They don't need 543 00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:45.480 that today because today all you have to do is some skeptic has to just 544 00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:51.440 post something and says photoshop, and everyone assumes the pictures aren't real. And 545 00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:54.519 the better the pictures are of a UFO, more likely they're not real. 546 00:49:55.280 --> 00:50:00.480 Technology's done the Air Force's job, and so I go through some of the 547 00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:05.039 other stuff like that. But I wanted to use my legal experience and my 548 00:50:05.159 --> 00:50:14.800 knowledge of government records and procedures to try to explain what was behind the Robertson 549 00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:20.559 Panel and why they did it, and what the result was. One document 550 00:50:20.599 --> 00:50:30.199 I found was drafted about fifteen days after the Robertson Panel met. The Robertson 551 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:38.519 Panel finished on January seventeenth, nineteen fifty three. January twentieth, nineteen fifty 552 00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:46.920 three, Eisenhower took the oath of office on January thirtieth. The first meeting 553 00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:53.880 about what happened with the Robertson Panel took place on something called the One Committee, 554 00:50:54.039 --> 00:51:01.159 was basically the CIA's committee that they helped reject what's going to happen in 555 00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:07.440 the future. And they had a bunch of CIA staffers, a retired general 556 00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:15.960 unnamed and retired ambassador, and a gentleman named doctor Edgar Hoover, which is 557 00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:22.480 J. Edgar Hoover. That was on January thirtieth. By February sixth, 558 00:51:23.199 --> 00:51:31.000 the FBI office in Los Angeles sent an FBI agent to meet with a rocket 559 00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:39.519 scientist at North American Aviation and that rocket scientist was not your typical rocket scientist. 560 00:51:40.039 --> 00:51:45.360 He was like the assistant of Verner von Braun building the V two rocket. 561 00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:51.960 He was brought over to the US by the CIA in Operation paper Clip, 562 00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:58.719 and he ran a program on rocketry at North American Aviation. In his 563 00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:07.480 spare time he worked for volunteer for an organization called Civilian Soccer Investigators of Los 564 00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:13.760 Angeles, and they applied scientific principles to the study of UFOs. They had 565 00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:19.039 a lot of members that were scientists and engineers at North America and the other 566 00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:29.239 defense contractors, and in fact the scientists worked on was a source for a 567 00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:36.360 story in Life magazine, the picture magazine that was on people's coffee tables and 568 00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:40.679 America in the fifties and sixties. And what they came up with was a 569 00:52:40.719 --> 00:52:49.079 story There was the Case for Extraterrestrial Visitation, and that was the name of 570 00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:52.559 the story, and on the cover of one of the issues in their right 571 00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:59.039 hand corner was a reference to that article on what page it was in. 572 00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:05.840 On the cover of that edition was Marilyn Monroe. It was the biggest selling 573 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:12.440 Life magazine ever and it wasn't for the UFO story, but it had a 574 00:53:12.440 --> 00:53:19.119 big circulation, and so cs ISLA got an international following, and people kept 575 00:53:19.159 --> 00:53:25.360 sending this is a mom and pop organization formed around kitchen tables, and they 576 00:53:25.400 --> 00:53:31.199 got a reputation because they were one of the first that applied scientific principles to 577 00:53:31.280 --> 00:53:37.480 the study on the other side, so the Robertson panel had listed them as 578 00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:43.280 one of the two organizations that need to be watched, and they used the 579 00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:51.360 term watched. And so when they met with this scientist, he was told 580 00:53:51.400 --> 00:53:55.000 that it would be a professional embarrassment for him by the FBI agent and that 581 00:53:55.079 --> 00:54:02.239 he should stop this hobby of his within by within three days, he wrote, 582 00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:09.480 this agent wrote a memo to the Office of Scientific Intelligence OSI and the 583 00:54:09.559 --> 00:54:15.920 CIA, no copies to anyone else. An FBI agent just writing directly to 584 00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:22.000 the CIA, to the group in charge of UFO issues at a time when 585 00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:29.159 them being in charge was only known within the CIA. And so they have 586 00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:35.880 the contact memo that explains what was done by the FBI to stop this guy. 587 00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:38.880 And so this guy left the group, so did the rest of the 588 00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:45.000 scientists and engineers because they were all worried about their security clearances. They didn't 589 00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:52.880 want to meet with an FBI agent. The FBI's role with classifications is they 590 00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:57.920 can remove your classification, you know, if they make your recommendation to do 591 00:54:58.039 --> 00:55:01.320 so, so you could lose your life as a scientist or an engineer. 592 00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:08.679 So within a year CSILA disappeared. It just folded up and stopped doing it, 593 00:55:09.079 --> 00:55:16.159 which left the field pretty much with UFO clubs, Safcier clubs versus the 594 00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:22.719 Air Force's explanation, and so little steps like that created big holes in the 595 00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:28.440 UFO community. So that's why I wanted to write the book to talk about 596 00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:32.360 just the civil rights aspects of that, because in America we have a First 597 00:55:32.360 --> 00:55:39.320 Amendment, and under the First Amendment, people have a freedom of association right. 598 00:55:39.639 --> 00:55:45.559 In other words, to engage in free speech, you have to be 599 00:55:45.639 --> 00:55:50.440 able to talk to other people who you get to associate with, and how 600 00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:55.159 is up to you. Unless you're plotting to bomb something or do something illegal, 601 00:55:55.480 --> 00:56:00.159 you have an absolute right to choose what you believe. And so what 602 00:56:00.199 --> 00:56:08.039 they've done is they took this scientist and took away his rights and other scientists 603 00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:14.719 to associate with people on the subject they wanted to associate about. And so 604 00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:19.280 when other people look at this and think of UFOs, and I'm thinking of 605 00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:28.159 what violations of law occurred because I practiced constitutional law for decades and it just 606 00:56:28.239 --> 00:56:31.519 stuck out to me as a sore thumb. So that's pretty much what my 607 00:56:31.519 --> 00:56:38.199 book's about, with a little bit about today's how yesterday has created the stigma 608 00:56:38.440 --> 00:56:46.199 that exists today in the intransigence of the Air Force CIA in particular to keep 609 00:56:46.280 --> 00:56:52.480 their secrets to themselves. And it Syney makes you wonder, you know how 610 00:56:52.599 --> 00:56:57.239 far they've actually gone to keep this secret. You know, there's there's been 611 00:56:57.480 --> 00:57:00.559 many stories over the years. And of course this store didn't begin in twenty 612 00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:04.400 seventeen. You know a lot of people which to the subject this dates back 613 00:57:04.880 --> 00:57:07.000 James. For people to interest in your book, where can they get copies? 614 00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:13.320 Amazon? Pretty much, let's see UK, Europe, US, Canada, 615 00:57:13.639 --> 00:57:17.840 New Zealand and Australia at bookstores there you can order them or just order 616 00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:22.960 them on Amazon. I'm supposed to have a kindle version. I've been waiting 617 00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:28.119 three weeks for it to pop up. I know a gentleman in a giglin, 618 00:57:28.599 --> 00:57:31.400 Steve Aspen, wrote a book and it took him. It took Amazon 619 00:57:31.480 --> 00:57:37.800 three months to post it. He wrote a UFO book, and so sometimes 620 00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:43.320 those things tend to happen. As my children say, operating error and Jim 621 00:57:43.400 --> 00:57:47.440 is synonymous. Too many people have had strange events like that. But the 622 00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:52.639 book is you can order it, you know, online and or order it 623 00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:57.320 through your local bookstore. And James, you also have a website. Yes, 624 00:57:57.639 --> 00:58:05.239 that's JPL. You fo dot com. JPL's my I'm James Patrick Low, 625 00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:10.360 so I don't get sued for copyright with the Jet Propulsion Lab, which 626 00:58:10.360 --> 00:58:15.599 I used to live next to or near. On that website, I do 627 00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:21.239 blogs. Luckily, my son is very tech savvy and he's mading. He's 628 00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:27.360 made it look presentable because it was pretty much hilarious before and so he's straightened 629 00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:31.480 out. But right now I'm doing a series. I'm not selling anything in 630 00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:37.760 the website. I'm doing a series of blogs on congressional interest in this and 631 00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:42.960 how they should do it. Right now, I've started a series. Just 632 00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:47.159 before we came on, I was finishing up my third in the series, 633 00:58:47.639 --> 00:58:52.679 and it's about how disclosures should happen through Congress. You know, a lot 634 00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:58.599 of people in the UFO community say that government will never do anything that it's 635 00:58:58.639 --> 00:59:02.800 going to come from the people. But from my perspective, it's in government 636 00:59:02.920 --> 00:59:08.119 right now, they hold the keys, and I'm going to do my best 637 00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:15.199 to give them examples to use to put forward to how to make it public. 638 00:59:15.320 --> 00:59:22.880 Because to me, the discovery that we're being visited by non humanities from 639 00:59:23.239 --> 00:59:29.639 other dimensions, I call it non terrestrial because I don't we don't know it's 640 00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:34.360 extraterrestrial. We don't know if they're from another planet or another dimension, or 641 00:59:34.400 --> 00:59:39.079 another time or whatever. So I usually use the term non terrestrial. But 642 00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:45.880 that will be very How that gets unfolded is going to be very important, 643 00:59:46.199 --> 00:59:52.840 because you and I talk and your listeners, you know, they're pretty savvy 644 00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:55.639 about this stuff, or else they wouldn't be listening to this or else they're 645 00:59:55.719 --> 01:00:02.639 learning about it, but the average person doesn't know. And there were Having 646 01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:12.039 worked with politicians and also representative political campaigns and initiatives ballot measures, I've done 647 01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:17.760 a lot of work with polling companies because a lot of times candidates or interest 648 01:00:17.800 --> 01:00:25.519 groups that want to push a particular ballot measure for a community will hire polsters, 649 01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:30.320 and they'll want the attorney who's going to draft whatever language they're working on 650 01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:36.440 or help with the platform of the candidate to make sure it's legal would have 651 01:00:36.679 --> 01:00:40.960 me at these meeting with their polsters, and so I learned a lot about 652 01:00:42.039 --> 01:00:47.199 polling doing that kind of work, and also I done one of my specialties 653 01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:53.199 was election law. The thing is is that there's been recent polling and it's 654 01:00:53.199 --> 01:00:59.719 starting to really matter. An organization called Yugov, which does really quality, 655 01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:07.880 in September of twenty twenty two, put out a poll that had a question 656 01:01:07.039 --> 01:01:15.039 that is the government hiding anything about extraterrestrials? Well, they're two poles, 657 01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:22.360 okay. One was are there extraterrestrials nonterrestrial beings on visiting planet Earth? One 658 01:01:22.599 --> 01:01:27.800 third, roughly, you know, within the margin of error, roughly one 659 01:01:27.880 --> 01:01:35.800 third of the respondents said yes. One third of the respondents said no because 660 01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:38.599 the government would tell us, and one third said they didn't know. So, 661 01:01:38.679 --> 01:01:43.159 no matter what they come up with, two thirds of the people are 662 01:01:43.159 --> 01:01:46.199 going to have a problem with it. It's not going to meet their pre 663 01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:52.480 existing knowledge. Fifty six percent in another poll by Yugov, in fifty seven 664 01:01:52.519 --> 01:01:58.880 by another polling firm within a year of that, say that the American government 665 01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:04.280 is hiding something the people. So if it's going to be rolled out, 666 01:02:04.760 --> 01:02:15.119 they've got to be very careful how they do it. Do you have an 667 01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:21.280 interest in the paranormal, then you'll love the unexnetwork dot com. The X 668 01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:27.840 is your streaming audio and video for everything supernatural, strange and mysterious like UFOs, 669 01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:31.800 Bigfoot, Ghost and so much more from host like Clyde Lewis, Whitley 670 01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:37.320 Streeber, Mikah Hanks, and Christina Gomez. Visit the unexnetwork dot com show 671 01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:42.719 page for a complete list of all the paranormal programs you'll find on the AX. 672 01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:46.480 Be sure to follow us on Twitter for updates at ku NXDB, follow 673 01:02:46.519 --> 01:02:52.519 our Facebook group ONEX network, by the podcast on a Spotify, ihearten, 674 01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:58.960 Audible and Apple podcast. It's Time, It's ew, It's the x X. 675 01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:09.480 My blogs are sort of laying out the process that they should do. 676 01:03:10.280 --> 01:03:15.400 First, thing's got to be bipartisan. If you have one party the other 677 01:03:15.480 --> 01:03:19.360 rolled it out, the other side is going to immediately assume it's not true. 678 01:03:19.719 --> 01:03:22.840 If they haven't rolled out from the CIA or the Air Force, no 679 01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:28.039 one's going to believe them. But if you have a bipartisan membership in Congress, 680 01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:31.800 which won this issue, we have that pretty much. There's been some 681 01:03:31.920 --> 01:03:37.760 bumps, but they consider considering. They change speakers three times in a year. 682 01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:42.840 You know, those bumps are minor compared to what's going on right now. 683 01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:46.840 But you've got a majority in both houses that are interested in this. 684 01:03:47.519 --> 01:03:52.719 And the amazing thing about it, with the overwhelming votes for this so far 685 01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:59.920 when it's been attached to either defense bills or Intelligence authorization bills, is that 686 01:04:00.400 --> 01:04:05.320 the rank and file members of Congress are voting overwhelmingly to support this. There 687 01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:13.000 hasn't until this year, there hasn't been one attempt to water down what is 688 01:04:13.039 --> 01:04:18.960 brought forward by these committees. And that shows that ranked file members may not 689 01:04:19.159 --> 01:04:26.320 know what they're seeing in closed doors, but they trust the particular members of 690 01:04:26.440 --> 01:04:31.199 those committees that are in their party. And so this has come up an 691 01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:38.000 unusual way. Usually issues like this come up through the grassroots with thousands of 692 01:04:38.199 --> 01:04:45.159 letters. A think tank issues a policy memoranda that this has to be done. 693 01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:50.119 Parties adopted or oppose it. You know, that's how things come up. 694 01:04:50.360 --> 01:04:58.679 This didn't follow that trend. This came up totally based on what the 695 01:04:58.880 --> 01:05:03.440 members, particularly of the Senate Intelligence Committee, or learning behind closed doors. 696 01:05:04.039 --> 01:05:12.079 I sort of consider it think about John Mack wrote just wonderful books about the 697 01:05:12.119 --> 01:05:17.119 abduction phenomena or experiences as I like to use this term. And one of 698 01:05:17.119 --> 01:05:24.800 the things he talks about another psychologists and psychiatrists have too, is the ontological 699 01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:31.159 shock that when you're an experiencer and you finally quit the excuses and figure out 700 01:05:31.599 --> 01:05:36.320 it's really happening to you, you know, your entire worldview is shattered. 701 01:05:36.599 --> 01:05:42.159 And that's the term for that is ontological shock. Well, that can apply 702 01:05:43.239 --> 01:05:47.320 to members of Congress. You're getting reports from navy pilots saying, we're seeing 703 01:05:47.400 --> 01:05:51.760 things you've never seen before, and if they attack us, we lose, 704 01:05:53.559 --> 01:05:58.960 We lose right away. But they're not attacking us. They're basically playing cat 705 01:05:58.960 --> 01:06:02.960 and mouse, and and it just keeps going on and it doesn't stop. 706 01:06:03.719 --> 01:06:09.280 So you can really tell just by the way they talk in Congress who's seen 707 01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:15.719 the videos and who hasn't. People like Mitt Romney, Kristen gillibrand, Mark 708 01:06:15.760 --> 01:06:21.000 Warner, Marco Rubio, you can tell when they talk. A couple of 709 01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:28.400 the senators living Mitt Romney were caught by a tabloid, one of those tabloid 710 01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:31.559 TV shows where they came out and we're just walking down the street and they 711 01:06:31.639 --> 01:06:35.719 walk up and stick a camera in their face and a microphone, and what 712 01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:42.599 about UFOs? Mitt Romney's three four years ago said they're not from here, 713 01:06:43.159 --> 01:06:45.599 They're from someplace else. They're not telling us the truth. Now, that 714 01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:53.639 didn't get much coverage, but as a former presidential candidate. Another former presidential 715 01:06:53.679 --> 01:07:00.880 candidate, Dennis Kucinch back in I think it was the nineteen eighties, was 716 01:07:00.960 --> 01:07:06.079 running for president and one of the questions he got at a forum televised forum 717 01:07:06.239 --> 01:07:13.079 was have you seen a UFO? Because Shirley McClain had written about one that 718 01:07:14.079 --> 01:07:19.840 Dennis Gussini saw visiting her house and it destroyed its campaign. So why would 719 01:07:19.880 --> 01:07:27.800 they pick up this subject? And it's interesting that it's bipartisan because you know, 720 01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:30.840 if you're going to jump off a bridge into the unknown, would you 721 01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:34.239 like to have the other side with you? I mean, you don't want 722 01:07:34.280 --> 01:07:38.800 to do it by yourself. You don't want to be the one that jumps 723 01:07:38.840 --> 01:07:43.159 off and everyone's standing up above laughing at you and pointing. So it's, 724 01:07:43.760 --> 01:07:47.440 you know, hang together or hang separately. As was said by a patriot 725 01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:53.039 during the Revolutionary War, who I can't Patrick Hale, there's something going on 726 01:07:53.159 --> 01:07:59.320 behind the scenes. That's much more than you know now. David Grush talked 727 01:07:59.320 --> 01:08:03.480 to them. Have been more whistleblowers talking to them, a lot of them 728 01:08:03.559 --> 01:08:09.519 retired who don't have anything. And see, in the past, if you 729 01:08:09.639 --> 01:08:15.440 came forward, you were on an island. Bob Sallas, a friend of 730 01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:23.079 mine, was a nuclear launch officer in the sixties Air Force Academy graduate and 731 01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:29.239 a UFO showed up over their facility. The security crew called down and said, 732 01:08:29.239 --> 01:08:32.600 we've got an orange UFO about forty five feet across right above us. 733 01:08:32.600 --> 01:08:38.319 Should we shoot? He thought they were joking, people who normally don't joke, 734 01:08:39.239 --> 01:08:45.960 and when the ICBMs the they were controlling started going offline one after another, 735 01:08:45.840 --> 01:08:50.199 they realized it was real. Well, Bob went on Larry King Live 736 01:08:50.279 --> 01:08:56.960 in the nineteen nineties and told that story, and he was literally on an 737 01:08:57.039 --> 01:09:00.520 island. No one in Congress would touch it. Well, things are different 738 01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:05.199 today. People are touching it. And I see it as not only a 739 01:09:05.239 --> 01:09:14.279 way to release the information in a manner that will help people along, because 740 01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:17.920 I really don't care about the UFO community. They're going to know, you 741 01:09:17.960 --> 01:09:20.880 know, they're going to be pulling people. Why don't you do this faster. 742 01:09:21.439 --> 01:09:26.000 But it's the people that don't know, they're going to have to be 743 01:09:26.279 --> 01:09:30.640 convinced. And so I'm hoping, you know, writing these blogs. You 744 01:09:30.680 --> 01:09:34.920 know what I'm gonna do is I did this with Bob a couple of years 745 01:09:34.960 --> 01:09:40.960 back. We group papers, we wrote together and sent them to Congress, 746 01:09:41.279 --> 01:09:46.279 and so we sent probably twenty twenty VI papers to Congress on various aspects of 747 01:09:46.279 --> 01:09:51.399 the phenomena. Well, I'm doing this one because there aren't many people that 748 01:09:51.800 --> 01:09:59.159 work with politicians set up procedures for them to handle certain matters in a way 749 01:09:59.199 --> 01:10:04.119 that the public ca accept. So I'm trying to use my expertise for something 750 01:10:04.159 --> 01:10:12.159 that if it comes out wrong, if if Ladimir Putin announces it or somebody 751 01:10:12.199 --> 01:10:16.800 else and mixes in disinformation with truth, you know, we could have a 752 01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:25.520 lot of chaos that shouldn't happen. And so my hope is they can change 753 01:10:25.600 --> 01:10:32.319 the way they do their hearings for this cover a subject sort of the January 754 01:10:32.359 --> 01:10:39.159 sixth insurrection hearings, Well take the subject matter away, you know, because 755 01:10:39.199 --> 01:10:44.920 that's a dividing issue. Just the format that they used it wasn't the typical 756 01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:48.840 five minutes of one congressman on one side, then five minutes on the other 757 01:10:49.079 --> 01:10:55.239 telling through the witness that the other guy's an idiot. If they do something 758 01:10:55.399 --> 01:11:00.479 like that, we're just going to have chaos. But they do a series 759 01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:06.920 of public hearings that release an issue at at a time to slowly bring people 760 01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:12.840 into this. I think we can do this with a lot less disruption and 761 01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:16.279 get the public to understand what we're talking about. And I think it might 762 01:11:16.319 --> 01:11:20.560 help the world a little bit because you're going to find out if you live 763 01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:27.359 in Wichita, Kansas, you have more in common with someone from you know, 764 01:11:27.720 --> 01:11:32.039 Botswana than you do with someone from Zeta reticulate, and so it might 765 01:11:32.279 --> 01:11:35.880 might help on that front too. I'm not sure whether they were ready. 766 01:11:36.239 --> 01:11:40.640 You know, maybe they'll keep flying around and not doing anything. Who knows, 767 01:11:40.920 --> 01:11:44.439 But at least people need to know that they're and that we're not alone 768 01:11:44.479 --> 01:11:47.239 in this universe. I can help. I'm a government guy, so I 769 01:11:47.279 --> 01:11:53.479 hope it works. Most people that have an interest in the phenomenon also think 770 01:11:53.960 --> 01:11:59.840 government doesn't work because look at this phenomenon, how it's never worked. So 771 01:12:00.039 --> 01:12:04.000 I will see there's always been pushed back with people which don't want this information 772 01:12:04.079 --> 01:12:08.760 coming out because if this information gets rolled out in the course, there's certain 773 01:12:08.840 --> 01:12:13.279 elements things that will come out, will will affect people which have involved in 774 01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:17.760 the more insidious aspects of this. Of course, they don't want these secrets 775 01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:20.479 to come out, but this is the WITHI of the people. The world 776 01:12:20.600 --> 01:12:25.359 is changing now. They want to know. And yes, people aren't as 777 01:12:25.399 --> 01:12:30.800 trusting of the government because there's been lies after lies told, but there is 778 01:12:30.119 --> 01:12:34.159 plenty of interest with this. Now. Have you attempted to reach out to 779 01:12:34.319 --> 01:12:42.560 Tim Burchak? No, I haven't actually tried to strictly stay with what are 780 01:12:42.640 --> 01:12:49.119 called appropriate committees. When they first drafted the UAP law, they set out 781 01:12:49.159 --> 01:12:56.600 who are the appropriate committees to receive information and classified settings about this, and 782 01:12:56.960 --> 01:13:00.079 Congress from Burschet is not on any of those committees, and so I'd sort 783 01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:06.319 of held fast that whether I should or not, House Overside jumped and had 784 01:13:06.359 --> 01:13:12.640 the grus sharing, which I was amazed not by the testimony because I knew 785 01:13:12.640 --> 01:13:16.760 what was going to come out with the Duke, Pilots and the intelligence officer, 786 01:13:16.960 --> 01:13:23.479 but what amazed me was how by partisan the subcommittee was. Because it's 787 01:13:23.479 --> 01:13:28.920 a subcommittee of one of the most partisan committees in Congress. I mean, 788 01:13:28.960 --> 01:13:32.439 they're the ones impeaching everybody, I guess, so, you know, it's 789 01:13:32.479 --> 01:13:36.479 not the kind of committee you expect to have that reach across the aisle. 790 01:13:36.800 --> 01:13:42.520 And there was one member, a woman from North Carolina, who spent her 791 01:13:42.600 --> 01:13:48.119 whole five minutes bashing the Biden administration over the Chinese balloon incident. But the 792 01:13:48.159 --> 01:13:56.640 rest of them, including some of the more flamboyant members like Matt Gates, 793 01:13:57.079 --> 01:14:01.039 asked good questions. I was very surprised, very heartened by that, because 794 01:14:01.399 --> 01:14:06.000 you know, to me, if they're back partisan on this issue, that 795 01:14:06.119 --> 01:14:11.439 doesn't mean they're going to give up their fights on abortion or other. It's 796 01:14:11.479 --> 01:14:15.319 just they put their gloves down for this one issue. Isn't that amazing. 797 01:14:15.800 --> 01:14:19.399 It's the only issue. I can't think of another issue right now that is 798 01:14:19.800 --> 01:14:25.239 truly bipartisan like this. And it's not because of the public. It is 799 01:14:25.319 --> 01:14:29.119 certainly a first and it is the way forward. When I say it's not 800 01:14:29.159 --> 01:14:32.479 the public, the public needs to get involved. But it didn't start with 801 01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:39.079 the public. It started with a bunch of Navy pilots complaining. I think 802 01:14:39.119 --> 01:14:42.600 the next stage is, you know, we have these whistleblowers, military individuals, 803 01:14:42.600 --> 01:14:46.399 which have had these experiences and people which have worked on these projects. 804 01:14:46.840 --> 01:14:53.680 But there does certainly need to be experiences, normal non military experiences which you 805 01:14:53.680 --> 01:14:56.920 know, which I believe they have to have a part in this. Oh, 806 01:14:56.960 --> 01:15:00.880 I agree. It's like peeling back the layers of an onion. You 807 01:15:00.920 --> 01:15:03.279 know, we're not the first layer, but we better be one of them. 808 01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:09.000 We don't want the military and the intelligence community to say, yeah, 809 01:15:09.079 --> 01:15:15.119 you got us, you got us. We held back because we were embarrassed. 810 01:15:15.760 --> 01:15:20.760 There's more to it than embarrassment. Because they know about the abduction phenomena 811 01:15:21.439 --> 01:15:28.079 and some say they're involved through my labs. There could be a lot behind 812 01:15:28.119 --> 01:15:30.520 the scenes that we don't know. That's pretty bad. So we need to 813 01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:33.159 get those out. Yeah, I mean, this is what I'm saying with 814 01:15:34.279 --> 01:15:39.760 there's going to be people which don't want this information coming out because potentially, 815 01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:45.000 you know, the military is involved in some of these abductions. But I 816 01:15:45.079 --> 01:15:47.880 think you know, if you go by all of my guests from over the 817 01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:51.800 years, these are just everyday people. You know, every day people which 818 01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:58.319 having these experiences made back decades decades and decades, So it's important that people 819 01:15:58.319 --> 01:16:02.279 come out and share these and hopefully it gets to be part of the onion, 820 01:16:02.439 --> 01:16:05.399 you know, because it is important, well, you know, sort 821 01:16:05.399 --> 01:16:10.119 of breaking up something that sort of I think I was meant to do this, 822 01:16:10.319 --> 01:16:13.960 or at least that's my goal or that was my mission. You know, 823 01:16:14.279 --> 01:16:17.039 what I'm writing is my own. I even stopped meditating while I was 824 01:16:17.079 --> 01:16:21.600 doing this because I just don't want annections at all. I want to do 825 01:16:21.680 --> 01:16:26.920 it like I'm doing it for a client, and that's the way I'm approaching 826 01:16:26.960 --> 01:16:30.920 it. I've written probably one thousand letters to Congress. A lot of them 827 01:16:30.920 --> 01:16:34.840 are you know, like one hundred copies to one that kind of thing. 828 01:16:34.920 --> 01:16:43.239 But in addition to the twenty seventeen articles coming out of my sixty fifth birthday 829 01:16:43.560 --> 01:16:47.159 in two thousand, November two thousand and four, I took my son my 830 01:16:47.319 --> 01:16:54.520 law firm. We went on a tour of a navy ship. One of 831 01:16:54.560 --> 01:17:00.359 the associates that work for me, her husband was the chiefly officer on the 832 01:17:00.479 --> 01:17:04.119 Nimetz, the USS Nimics, and so we went on. He took us 833 01:17:04.119 --> 01:17:08.960 on a tour. So we went on a sort of a discombobulated tour because 834 01:17:09.279 --> 01:17:13.199 he was a lawyer, not a tour guide. Because they have different officers 835 01:17:13.279 --> 01:17:18.000 or people that give community tours of the ship. And so the highlight of 836 01:17:18.039 --> 01:17:23.640 the tour was it was on a Friday, I think the tenth I may 837 01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:27.279 get my dates wrong, but the tenth of November. We get up to 838 01:17:27.359 --> 01:17:30.359 the Combat Information Center, I think it's called something different now, but where 839 01:17:30.439 --> 01:17:33.359 you know, the heart of the ship, where a commanding control is. 840 01:17:33.760 --> 01:17:38.560 And so the executive officer was the officer of the deck, and then there 841 01:17:38.560 --> 01:17:44.560 were a bunch of enlisted personnel at different computer screens or radar screens or whatever 842 01:17:44.600 --> 01:17:48.119 they were, and we're all real quiet. It's very dark, just the 843 01:17:48.359 --> 01:17:51.800 light from the computer screens to be able to see where we were, and 844 01:17:51.840 --> 01:17:57.039 we're all crowded in there. It was a real small area. And so 845 01:17:57.600 --> 01:18:00.560 our tour guide asked one of them, what are you doing? One of 846 01:18:00.600 --> 01:18:04.479 the personnel, and since an officer asked him, he said, we just 847 01:18:04.520 --> 01:18:10.159 got some new software upgrades. I'm calibrating it. And then the executive officer 848 01:18:10.239 --> 01:18:14.960 turns to the legal officer and says, don't you ever ask a question like 849 01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:19.119 that again in front of civilians. So I knew that they were calibrating some 850 01:18:19.359 --> 01:18:27.199 new software improvements in their radar. They set out two days later on Sunday, 851 01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:31.840 first light goes off the deck and that's the one that spotted the first 852 01:18:31.920 --> 01:18:36.159 tiktacs with Commander Fraver. So I was on the ship ahead of time. 853 01:18:36.399 --> 01:18:43.920 So fast forward about eight nine years later, I met a UFO conference. 854 01:18:43.960 --> 01:18:47.800 It's Sunday afternoon, it's wrapping up. I'm sitting at a von Smith's book 855 01:18:47.840 --> 01:18:51.600 table while she's doing her aggressions, so I can you know. There weren't 856 01:18:51.640 --> 01:18:58.199 many people in there. It was closing up, and my job was to 857 01:18:58.239 --> 01:19:01.159 tell people you can buy a book for me, but Devanza here signed it 858 01:19:01.199 --> 01:19:04.720 and they always walk away, but no one steals the books with me. 859 01:19:04.840 --> 01:19:11.039 Sitting there across from me was a gentleman named Kevin Day, and so there 860 01:19:11.079 --> 01:19:14.039 was no one around. So we just started talking back and forth and I 861 01:19:14.079 --> 01:19:18.000 didn't know it. And it turns out Kevin was the chief Petty Officer on 862 01:19:18.039 --> 01:19:25.640 the USS Princeton, which is the aegis cruiser in the Nimitz Task Force, 863 01:19:26.239 --> 01:19:31.880 and that's the main radar for the whole carrier group and he was, you 864 01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:36.920 know, the supervisor of it, and he was on board. He was 865 01:19:38.119 --> 01:19:43.520 in charge of that unit. When the TIC TACs started showing up, and 866 01:19:43.560 --> 01:19:47.039 he said that they had just gotten new software and they were calibrating it, 867 01:19:47.319 --> 01:19:53.520 and they figured they were just mistakes, so they recalibrated everything. They shut 868 01:19:53.560 --> 01:19:58.720 it down and restarted and recalibrated everything, and the tic TACs actually turned up 869 01:19:58.800 --> 01:20:04.079 sharper and so so Kevin said to me, he thought that the software upgrades 870 01:20:04.600 --> 01:20:09.119 let them see something that might have always been there, or been there a 871 01:20:09.119 --> 01:20:13.279 lot that they couldn't see before. And so I got a front row seat 872 01:20:13.600 --> 01:20:19.600 before the Knibbuts event on the NIBUS and talk about synchronicities. Back to synchronistis 873 01:20:19.640 --> 01:20:25.039 again. Isn't that interesting? It makes you wonder that this upgrade was maybe 874 01:20:25.439 --> 01:20:30.159 deliberate, with maybe prior knowledge, done so they could observe these UFOs, 875 01:20:30.520 --> 01:20:36.680 whether it was intentional or accidental. The result is they started seeing him and 876 01:20:36.920 --> 01:20:42.760 talking to Kevin day about it. To watch someone speak personally about it, 877 01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:47.399 and he was not that comfortable at the time talking about it, but just 878 01:20:47.439 --> 01:20:51.520 seeing the emotion in his face. You know, as a lawyer, you're 879 01:20:51.520 --> 01:20:57.000 always trying to judge the credibility of people you're dealing with, you know, 880 01:20:57.079 --> 01:21:01.880 in the courtroom or in a city council chambers or in a meeting where you're 881 01:21:02.239 --> 01:21:06.279 negotiating. I've always felt I have a little bit of a sixth sense in 882 01:21:06.319 --> 01:21:10.640 that regard. I can't put my finger on it, but I don't trust 883 01:21:10.680 --> 01:21:14.279 this person. It makes a lot of sense to me what they're saying. 884 01:21:15.600 --> 01:21:18.960 I was always a negotiator that most of the time I was representing the government, 885 01:21:19.640 --> 01:21:24.800 I usually didn't play around. I just said, here's my bottom line, 886 01:21:25.279 --> 01:21:28.760 and I never change. If you don't believe me, I'll give you 887 01:21:28.800 --> 01:21:32.399 a list of people I've negotiated with. So it always strikes people funny when 888 01:21:32.520 --> 01:21:35.880 a lot of times they don't trust that. They're used to the old game 889 01:21:35.960 --> 01:21:42.039 where you come up five thousand, they go down five thousand. Eventually three 890 01:21:42.039 --> 01:21:45.520 hours later you meet in the middle. And I was on the public payroll 891 01:21:45.560 --> 01:21:48.560 at the time on an hourly rate, and so I used to always try 892 01:21:48.600 --> 01:21:54.560 to cut to the chase, but credibility, you know, watching Kevin Day, 893 01:21:55.119 --> 01:22:00.520 it was emotionally gut wrenching for him to do it because talk about ontological 894 01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:05.520 shock, you know, no training, no nothing. And in fact, 895 01:22:06.159 --> 01:22:13.680 he said, and he's said this publicly many times that after the incidents, 896 01:22:14.039 --> 01:22:19.399 there were people in Air Force uniforms came on board and took all the radar 897 01:22:19.520 --> 01:22:26.399 data and all the tapes of all the sensors and left. It was interesting. 898 01:22:27.119 --> 01:22:33.159 At the end of December, as Sean Kirkpatrick was leaving Errow to retire, 899 01:22:33.920 --> 01:22:41.920 he was interviewed by I think one of the Defense publications saying and he 900 01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:46.479 said that people are always asking us to look at the NIMET situation, and 901 01:22:46.520 --> 01:22:50.399 I'm telling him they should we look at modern things, not the nimts, 902 01:22:50.840 --> 01:22:58.920 because twenty four hours after they're used, they erased the tape the data and 903 01:23:00.079 --> 01:23:03.840 laid down new data. And I know that's false about that incert. Whether 904 01:23:03.880 --> 01:23:10.800 he knows it or I don't know, but somebody took those tapes away, 905 01:23:11.760 --> 01:23:15.760 and they were tapes back in two thousand and four, big magnetic data tapes. 906 01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:21.079 They took those away, and there's someplace and the answer is right there. 907 01:23:21.680 --> 01:23:27.039 Unless they've destroyed them. Oh yeah, I guarantee they'd be locked away 908 01:23:27.199 --> 01:23:30.399 somewhere. Yes, it's all important data. That's wonderful. James. Now 909 01:23:30.439 --> 01:23:36.479 to our listeners, if you're interested in getting copies of James's books, that's 910 01:23:36.560 --> 01:23:44.159 the UFO Briefing Book, A Guide to congressional oversight of the UAP phenomena and 911 01:23:44.640 --> 01:23:49.960 body politic Foo fighters to UAPs and I'll make them all available on the website 912 01:23:50.079 --> 01:23:55.640 and below this episode. Thanks James, I really appreciate you coming on sharing 913 01:23:55.640 --> 01:23:58.520 it all for our listeners. Well, thank you very much. It was 914 01:23:58.520 --> 01:24:01.520 a pleasure. Pleasure is all. James, keep in contact and we will 915 01:24:01.520 --> 01:24:05.399 speak soon. I will take care James. That is all for this episode. 916 01:24:05.520 --> 01:24:11.399 Keep updated and connected with the show on x Facebook and Instagram. And 917 01:24:11.479 --> 01:24:14.680 if you have an encounter that you'd like to share on the podcast, you 918 01:24:14.720 --> 01:24:19.039 can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com, or you can reach 919 01:24:19.079 --> 01:24:26.079 out to me via the contact page on my website UFO Chronicles podcast dot com. 920 01:24:26.159 --> 01:24:29.720 A big fan of James for sharing tonight, and thank you all for 921 01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:34.600 listening. I will be back next week. Till then, stay safe and 922 01:24:34.680 --> 01:25:35.880 keep watching the skies. Goodbye,