WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.840 --> 00:00:07.440 Welcome to Open Mindes Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former official spokesperson for 2 00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:12.880 the Mutual UFO Network. Alejandro who's been a UFO paranormal researcher and journalists for 3 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:17.719 nearly a decade and has logged hours in the field investigating the paranormal up close 4 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:22.760 and personal, and now Open Minds Radio presents evidence in the latest news regarding 5 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:28.000 the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello and welcome to 6 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:33.079 open Minds Radio, where we're bringing the UFO subject into the light of day. 7 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:40.159 This is Alejandro Rojas and we have another spectacular show today. In fact, 8 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:46.560 we have brought on our very own Antonio Huneez as a guest today. 9 00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:51.000 The reason why is he's going to Mexico this weekend and actually Jason, our 10 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:55.640 news guy, and myself are going to be accompanying him for a conference. 11 00:00:55.679 --> 00:01:02.600 It's the twenty twelve UFO World Symposium. I think Antonio be able to more 12 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:07.519 accurately give us the title of the conference, but it's down in Mexico, 13 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:12.519 done by Jime Moussan and you're going to be able to watch this entire event 14 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:18.640 at openminds dot tv this weekend. If you go there, there's going to 15 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:23.680 be streaming video. You're gonna be able to watch Antonio and a number of 16 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:29.719 other great speakers. I know Don Schmidt, who does Roswell Investigation is going 17 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:34.280 to be down there, Whitley Streiber, of course, the famous and always 18 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:38.519 entertaining Jimei Mussan, and many others. And we'll talk about that some more 19 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:42.040 in a minute. The reason I wanted to bring on Antonio is he is 20 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:48.840 speaking at the conference about some of his stories that are also going to be 21 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:53.079 in our magazine. In our magazine is coming out next week. It's actually 22 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:57.200 out right now. You can go to our website and order it. But 23 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.239 you're gonna be able to go to Barnes and Noble and Border and even the 24 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:07.879 airport and purchase our magazine on the twenty third. So we are extremely excited 25 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:13.960 about that. And in the first issue, Antonio has a great story on 26 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:19.639 what is called the Ruwa Incident, and essentially a Harvard professor of psychology went 27 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:24.000 down and investigated his name was John Mack, a case in South Africa where 28 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:30.919 some school children had actually seen a Ufo land and these et guys come out 29 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:35.319 because you know the kids are going crazy. The teachers are thinking they're being 30 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:39.560 silly, but upon investigation, it was something that really happened. These kids 31 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:46.479 were startled and they described similar occurrences and it's an incredible case. And so 32 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:51.319 we covered a story on that that Antonio tell us about. He also, 33 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:54.599 for the second issue of the magazine, which we're working on now, has 34 00:02:54.639 --> 00:03:00.960 a story on the Vatican and their connections. You know, you've heard us 35 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:07.360 talking a lot about astrobiology and the Vatican, talking about extraterrestrials and the philosophical 36 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:12.520 implications and what does that mean. So we're gonna He's got a story on 37 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:19.000 that that we'll be talking about. Also Mexico, Mexico's first UFO wave. 38 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:25.360 Antonio believes that perhaps their first UFO wave happened during the time of Montezuma, 39 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:30.159 the Aztec culture, that they might have seen some omens or they did see 40 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:34.719 some moments that were documented and maybe those are UFOs, and we're going to 41 00:03:34.759 --> 00:03:37.960 talk more about that. So a lot of cool stuff to talk about. 42 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:43.879 But as usual, we have our UFOs in the news headlines that we cover 43 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:47.520 on a regular basis that you can see on the front page of Openminds dot 44 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:53.520 TV and we have our news correspondent, Jason McClelland here to tell us all 45 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:59.080 about it. Good afternoon, Alejandro, Hello Phoenix, and hello world. 46 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:02.280 Let's review the news from the week. I delivered a story last week about 47 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:08.039 a multi day UFO siding in Euclid, Ohio. The series of UFO sidings 48 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:13.800 was again reported by Cleveland's Fox Channel eight, MSNBC, and other major media 49 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:18.360 because the mysterious lights continued to appear night after night. Eugene Irlick, at 50 00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:23.519 a local residence, spotted and photographed lights in the sky outside his house over 51 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:28.160 a span of many nights. He described the lights as pulsating and changing colors. 52 00:04:28.759 --> 00:04:32.879 A field investigator from mufon the mutual UFO Network went to Euclid and investigated 53 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:39.800 the strange lights, and their investigator was there for multiple days and photographed and 54 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:44.480 video and took video of the object. But still no one knows what the 55 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:46.480 object was. And I think it appeared for something like nine nights in a 56 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:50.120 row. Well, I heard that I saw a story today and I'll get 57 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:56.079 that up that it's day eleven. That he might have even have continued to 58 00:04:56.120 --> 00:05:01.079 see the sidings up until even today. And I believe somebody spoke with NASA 59 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:05.759 and NASA said they were testing some sort of aircraft in the area. I 60 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:12.240 didn't know NASA tested airly raft, but they admitted that in the area they 61 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:15.639 had tested things, but not on any of these nights that the lights were 62 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:17.959 reported. Hmmm. Interesting. I know, if you live out in Ohio, 63 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:20.319 if you're a listener, you know, give us a call let us 64 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:25.079 know, or go to our website and send us an email on if you're 65 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:29.680 seeing these things. A lot of people live around Lake Gary right. In 66 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:33.279 other news, more than one hundred starlings fell out of the sky in England 67 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:38.319 last week. A witness described the birds falling from the sky like rain. 68 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:44.720 Approximately seven seventy appeared to be dead before hitting the earth. The Royal Society 69 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:47.680 for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals was unable to determine the cause of death, 70 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:53.319 but noted that the birds were not poisoned, but did sustain physical injuries. 71 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:58.040 One possible explanation is that the birds were hit by something they couldn't see, 72 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:02.720 like possibly an invisible ufo OUI. That's freaky, Yeah, that's weird. 73 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:08.639 These birds falling out of the sky. Such a strange story and it's happened 74 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:13.639 before actually in the past, but so strange. And you said that they 75 00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:16.600 ruled out poison, right, So, because that's one of the things sometimes 76 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:20.000 when these birds are in the sky, if there's some sort of gas business 77 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:25.199 gas in the air, but one hundred birds at one time just falling to 78 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:27.879 their death. Yeah, really strange. Of course, when this happens to 79 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:33.120 people speculate that its heart maybe some sort of weird experiments done with microwaves. 80 00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:40.079 Who knows. And In Open Minds News, we are pleased to announce live 81 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:44.759 streaming coverage of the Kumbre mundal Opne Conference at the World Trade Center in Mexico 82 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:47.639 City beginning today. You can view the conference from the comfort of your own 83 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:51.439 home for only twenty nine to ninety five. The event runs from today, 84 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:57.199 March nineteenth, through the twenty first. It features eighteen international speakers presenting a 85 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:01.199 variety of UFO topics over the course of three days. Speakers include Haimi Mussan, 86 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:06.199 Nick Pope, Whitley, Streeper, Hoctan Octagon, and Open Minds Barry 87 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:12.000 Oon Antonio Juneis. Again, you can watch the entire conference online all three 88 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.959 days for only twenty nine ninety five. Just go to Openminds dot tv and 89 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:18.879 click on the events tab to purchase your ticket and for more information about the 90 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:24.600 conference. That's it for me, Alejandro. Back to you, Kumre Mundia, 91 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:28.040 you do that very well. You can rule your urs. I can't 92 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:31.240 do that, Gratias, Hey, pretty good. I like it when the 93 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:34.560 girls do that, ale Handlo, but I can't roll my eyes. I 94 00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:40.160 can't do it, unfortunately. But yeah, it should be a fun weekend 95 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:44.879 out there in Mexico. We're going to be able to get some more photos 96 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:53.199 of some of the different archaeological things around there, so that'll be really good 97 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:57.920 because we'll get those pictures for our story that Antonio is doing. So we'll 98 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:03.160 talk more about that story. It's an excess in just a minute. Some 99 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:07.480 other things with our magazine to let you know there's also other writers in there 100 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:11.079 like me. So just to entice you to get out there, tell your 101 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:16.920 buddies, take your friends, everybody, go store by store and buy up 102 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:20.040 all of the magazines. But we have one on the White House, the 103 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:24.920 White House connection to UFOs, and it's really interesting because there are staff members 104 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:31.120 in the White House, including Hillary Clinton and John Podesta, who's not really 105 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:37.000 in the White House anymore, but he helped with the transition period, but 106 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:46.440 their connections to UFOs and the efforts for disclosure. Also a story on cattle 107 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.080 mutilations in the second one, and that's a lot of fun. We had 108 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:56.120 Chuck Sukowski on the show before. We also had him on our live streaming 109 00:08:56.360 --> 00:09:01.559 of the Lafflin conference where he was able to talk about that, and we'll 110 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:05.159 get more details coming up here. But speaking of that as well, the 111 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:09.639 streaming that we did in Laughlin at the UFO Congress, that's going to be 112 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:15.399 online as well, because every day we streamed, we did a live show 113 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:20.360 with some interviews with some of the speakers there and some of the people around, 114 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:24.000 so you're going to be able to see that online as well, and 115 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:26.879 we got some great interviews out there. It was a lot of fun. 116 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:31.600 And the reason why speaking about Chuck brought that up is because that was party 117 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:35.039 night. You know, you can see the party happening behind us, and 118 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:39.440 during my interview with Chuck, he got really silly and was being a goofball 119 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:43.600 and some people were saying, hey, you guys need to be more serious, 120 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:46.480 but you know, we can't be serious all the time, we kind 121 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:48.480 of have some fun people, so that was a lot of fun. That 122 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:54.639 was a really good interview. So don't forget go and check out our magazine. 123 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:58.200 Really it's only thirty bucks for six issues, so for a year's worth 124 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:05.320 of magazine, and the stories are just phenomenal. They're really actually selling very 125 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:09.759 well. We sold tons of subscriptions out there in Laughlin, so we're really 126 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:13.279 excited about it. And of course we're extremely excited about the second issue. 127 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:18.720 So we'll get more into what's in that second issue, more details on the 128 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:26.759 RUA story, the Vatican, aztec omens and UFOs. What's more exciting than 129 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:33.039 that? In just a few seconds after the break, you're listening to Open 130 00:10:33.039 --> 00:11:01.080 Minds Radio on KFNX. You're listening to Open Minds Radio with l Rojas on 131 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:05.559 KFNX News Talk Radio eleven hundred. Welcome back. You are listening to Open 132 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:11.440 Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, and we have our special guests for 133 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:16.679 the day, Antonio, who Nass with us in the studio, which is 134 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:20.799 exciting to have a guest actually here with us. Antonio, why don't we 135 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.919 start off with you give me a little bit about your background. Hi, 136 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:30.600 Alejandro and Hi everybody. Hi, Well my background. You know, I've 137 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:35.960 been in the UFO field for over thirty years. I'm a science journalist. 138 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:41.240 My family originally is from Chile, but I lived over thirty years in the 139 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:46.960 United States. I lived for a long time in New York City and where 140 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:50.519 it is where I became a Northologist. I've written for publications all over the 141 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:56.440 world, and now for the last six months, I was lucky enough to 142 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:00.759 be hired by Open Minds and I moved to the West. Being in New 143 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:03.679 York. One of the exciting stories that you've got to be involved with some 144 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:09.919 of the different activities the UN had related to UFO. Yeah, that was 145 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:13.960 great, you know I have. I was just arrived in New York within 146 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:20.399 a year or so, and I had written maybe one article on UFOs. 147 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:26.840 I was still writing for some newspapers in Santiago Childer and I heard through they 148 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:30.720 got a report through the newswires. I guess that there was going to be 149 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:35.519 this official UFO hearing of the United Nations, which was convened by the then 150 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:41.000 Prime Minister of Berenada, the Caribbean island called the Sir Eric Gaary, And 151 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:46.080 so I went career as a journalist, and that was the first, the 152 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:52.120 very first UFO event I ever attended, and wow, and it was the 153 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:56.919 only official UFO event that ever happened at the United Nations. There were some 154 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:01.519 other lectures that people did, including myself many years later, but these lectures 155 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:05.080 were for you know, for the employees, for the staff. They were 156 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:09.919 not official, They were not part of that genda of the umaginations. So 157 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:13.919 I think that was your first UFL meeting was yeah, Well I didn't speak, 158 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.480 totally unknown in the field, but I got to meet doctor Allan Heinich, 159 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:22.720 you know, the late astronomer who was the advisor for Project Blue Book, 160 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.240 and Jacques Ballet, the famous also astrophysicist the French America and lives in 161 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:33.320 California. And now those two people were instrumental on what the movie Because Encounters 162 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:37.600 was based off of. Was a French guy and Heinich was the advisor as 163 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:41.639 you know, and has a cameo appearance, and Ballet was really the inspiration 164 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:48.720 for the character of la Combe played by the famous movie director Truffaul. So 165 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:54.240 anyway, it was very exciting to cover that, and of course I was 166 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:58.440 a science journalist, so I had been naturally skeptic about the UFO phenomenon, 167 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:03.960 like most people are, especially back in those days. You thought that if 168 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:09.960 it's not being covered by official institutions or scientific academies and things like that, 169 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.519 it's probably not worthwhile. But this conditions the otherwise. I mean, here 170 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:18.039 was an official hearing at the United Nations, and so that was great. 171 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:22.919 Yeah, that was And then of course I was able to meet the many. 172 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:26.360 There was an interesting UFO community back in New York City back in those 173 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:31.679 days. Well, there was the late the Hungarian colonel, very colorful character, 174 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:35.320 colemen Van Kevinsky. In fact, he had worked at the United Nations 175 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:41.080 and he had tried to get a project started under the Secretary General Utante. 176 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:46.320 And then, of course I also met over the years Bud Hopkins, you 177 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:52.679 know, the abduction author and artists. And John Keel, the author of 178 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.360 the Mofman prophecies, who passed their way to the story. We wanted to 179 00:14:56.360 --> 00:15:01.879 talk about that he wrote for the first magazine. Uh when did you first 180 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:07.240 meet the Harvard professor John Mack who investigated that. Uh? Probably I met 181 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:11.679 John Mack. He lived in New York. No, he lived in Boston, 182 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:16.639 actually Cambridge Massachusetts. He was a professor of psychiatry at Harvard University. 183 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:22.039 Very prominent man. He was a Pullit Serprise winner for a biography he wrote 184 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:26.679 of Lawrence of Arabia. Right, so this was not your run of the 185 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:33.120 male uphologist. And he had become interested in the phenomenon through Bout Hopkins. 186 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:37.960 Originally he went there, I guess as a psychiatrist, you know, probably, 187 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:43.159 and he was more focused on the phenomenon of abduction. Yes he was. 188 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:46.039 He was not a UFO investigator, he was because of his profession. 189 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:54.360 His his emphasis was on the on abductions. Initially he got very great The 190 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.279 media was very encouraging, you know, and they had great profiles of him, 191 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:03.679 and then Wall Street Journal and all kinds of publications because I thought, 192 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:07.639 I think that the mainstream media thought that finally we have a prominent scientist who's 193 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:12.039 going to come up with a quote psychological explanation for it, is basically going 194 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:17.039 to debunk this phenomenon. Then when his book came out, which I believe 195 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:19.799 was in nineteen ninety four, his first book, it was just called Abduction, 196 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:23.720 he disappointed, you know, all the skeptics because he said, well, 197 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:27.759 I'm sorry, but this is real. I've looked deeply into it. 198 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:37.360 There's no psychological explanation, there's no these experiences cannot be accounted by psychiatric illnesses 199 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:41.039 or whatever. And I guess it was around this period his book had been 200 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:45.279 I probably met him around the same time, maybe ninety three or something. 201 00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:48.480 He used to go to a lot of conferences because he was a very prominent 202 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:53.919 man, and so I was also lecturing at a lot of international and American 203 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:59.600 conferences. So I met him around that period and he got a tip. 204 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:03.839 I guess that this very interesting case had happened in was not in South Africa, 205 00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:08.799 but in Zimbabwe. Yeah, at a place called Ruwa, not far 206 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:15.519 from Harari, the capital of Zimbabwe, at this elementary school called the Ariel 207 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:19.640 Arial School. In fact, the case was investigated by the late Cynthia Hind, 208 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:25.039 whom I also met. She was a delightful lady. I met her 209 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.839 at a conference in Rio de Janeiro many many years ago, and she used 210 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:32.079 to come to the United States once in a while, and she was she 211 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:37.799 an investigator in Africa. She was a pioneer investigator in Africa. She was 212 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.920 not black, she was white. From the old I guess British people that 213 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:47.559 had lived in Zimbabwe which used to be called Rhodesia. But she was an 214 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:55.440 African and she was really the first pioneering person and she wasn't a UFO investigator, 215 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.240 and so she lived near the area. She got the tip that this 216 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:03.960 case had happened, and she was the first on the scene. And basically 217 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:07.240 what you had was this happened on September fourteen, nineteen ninety four, and 218 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:12.519 the kids were it is estimated that about sixty two kids saw it and they 219 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:21.799 were on a break and this UFO literally landed or Harvard outside a playfield and 220 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:25.039 they all saw it. And not only they saw the UFO land, but 221 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:30.200 these beings come out and some of the kids had some kind of communication as 222 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:33.680 well, and they were all consistent. Initially, the teachers and other people 223 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:40.279 try to put it down, but the stories were so consistent that basically, 224 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:44.680 you know, eventually they accepted the kids testimony. Now, John Mack got 225 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:52.240 there maybe about four months afterwards, and he brought a camera, a camera 226 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:57.000 woman from South Africa, and he recorded extensively a lot of interviews with them, 227 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:03.519 with the kids. Then basically, when unfortunately John Mack was killed by 228 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:07.920 a drunk driver in England while attending a conference on lawrence of Arabia. This 229 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:14.000 happened I forgot around two thousand and four or something like that. So the 230 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:18.640 case basically since behind had also passed away, so the case lay dormant. 231 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:26.119 And then that's when a filmmaker from both New York and Boston called Randy Nickerson. 232 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:32.279 Initially he was brought in by the John mac Institute now it's called the 233 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:37.519 John mc Institute used to be called the Peer Group and to edit possibly the 234 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:42.920 footage that they had in due a documentary. And this filmmaker, Nickerson, 235 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:48.960 realized that the case was so significant and interesting and unusual that it really it 236 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:56.079 merited a more detailed investigation. It's an incredible case and you can see some 237 00:19:56.119 --> 00:20:00.759 of the video I know on YouTube. There was there's a spent on some 238 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:04.599 was it covered on sightings or one of the the world sightings they covered. 239 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:08.839 It wasn't the BBC even at the time. It got a lot of coverage, 240 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:12.680 but that was all back then. And so what this guy has done 241 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:17.880 is he went back. He actually spent something like nine and a half months 242 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:21.319 in Southern Africa, most of the time in South Africa a little time in 243 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:25.480 Zimbabwe what happened. Of course, the kids are all now in their twenties, 244 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:30.799 and because the economic and political situation in Zimbabwe is so unstable and bad, 245 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:36.039 you know, Zimbabwe really has a lot of problems that a lot of 246 00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:38.880 them have emigrated to South Africa. So he did a lot of radio shows 247 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:45.920 and he was able to eventually locate about thirty of the original witnesses and then 248 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:51.079 interview them. He also found other things that there were many other incidents that 249 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:57.359 happened over perhaps three or five day period in Africa, specifically inwe really including 250 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:03.559 two other schools. Parenty this object first Harvard over those other schools and then 251 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:10.000 finally landed in the in the a real school. Interesting. He also found 252 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:14.960 that this is fascinating that the principle of the arial school had a missing time 253 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.319 experience. Wow. Well, let's talk a little bit more about that. 254 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.680 But we'll be getting into Mexico and the Vatican and UFOs were with our guest 255 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.880 Antonio Gunez. We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back. 256 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:45.480 You're listening to Open Minds Radio on Campnex. This is Open Minds Radio 257 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:56.160 here again. Your host UFO paranormal researcher and journalist Alejandro Rojas, Welcome back. 258 00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:00.720 I want to remind you that at Open Minds, we we are always 259 00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:04.839 posting those news stories at Openminds dot tv, so you can get those on 260 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:11.920 a daily basis, as well as other stories, including stories by our guests 261 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:17.160 Antonio. In fact, we had an interview with Antonio with Bob Brend, 262 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:21.519 who was one of the gentlemen who ran Project blue Book for the Air Force 263 00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:25.440 for a period of time. That was a very lengthy and interesting interview because 264 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:30.359 you don't see very many interviews with Bob friend out there, so you got 265 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:36.160 some details from him that people haven't been able to see other places. Real 266 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:40.880 quick, because we don't want to give away your whole story from Africa, 267 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:44.440 so we want them to go read it on the magazine, but if you 268 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:45.599 could share it. Before the break, you were talking about some of the 269 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:52.759 other phenomena that even another landing at a school. Well no, basically I 270 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:56.279 think the landing was just the one in a real school, but there was 271 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:03.079 a wave is what we call a wave in probably is estimated that thousands of 272 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:07.160 people saw it, so there were also adults involved. As now we know, 273 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.759 in including the principle of the school. This maybe didn't even happen exactly 274 00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:18.279 on that same morning, but perhaps within those few days. She had been 275 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:21.680 in denial of course, so she hadn't even talked about it until this guy, 276 00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:25.319 Randy Nickerson went there. So we don't know exactly the date, but 277 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:30.880 it's definitely in that period. And another interesting aspect is, of course people 278 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.079 you know, skeptics who say, well, but all this material now is 279 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:37.440 available on the web and so on. Yeah, maybe so today, but 280 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:41.759 not in nineteen ninety four, and not especially in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is a 281 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.559 very poor country. I'm sure it wasn't at all wired for the worldwide. 282 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:49.160 Even the web in nineteen ninety four was fairly primitive, even in the United 283 00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.359 States, right, so the chan and they would have not been large amounts 284 00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:57.519 of UFOL books and periodicals and things like that. So the chances of ten 285 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:03.359 year old kids, you know, reading about how aliens are supposed to look 286 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:07.640 or behave it's neil, I would say, So, it's I'm very excited 287 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:11.039 not only with this story but with it in general, with our magazine. 288 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:15.480 I think it looks fantastic. Have you heard an update when this documentary might 289 00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:18.119 be coming out. Well. When I interviewed Nickerson, which was a few 290 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:23.079 months ago when we were putting together the first tissue, he was still working. 291 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:26.519 I guess most of the filming was done, but he was still editing 292 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:33.039 and trying to obtain additional footage. He was talking of by the mid of 293 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:38.440 twenty ten. These things tend to be delayed, so we'll have to contact 294 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:41.200 him. We'll have to send him, in fact, a copy of the 295 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:42.640 magazine, and yeah, sure will be the Like, that's exciting. I'm 296 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.799 real excited about the documentary because, like I said, it was featured in 297 00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:51.559 parts and pieces of documentary, right, but only briefly, and it certainly 298 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:56.960 deserves an entire documentary focused on it. It's a really unusual case, another 299 00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:03.880 kind of interesting development in euthology that deserves a lot of attention. It's the 300 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:11.000 Vatican and it's sudden interest in astrobiology, right or is this interest so sudden? 301 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:17.799 Well, actually it is not that sudden if we consider that in two 302 00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:22.720 thousand and seven, I believe, so, it's over two years ago. 303 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:27.359 The Observatoria Romano, which is the absolute official voice of the Vatican. This 304 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:33.359 is not just a regular Rome newspaper, this is the official newspaper of the 305 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:38.720 Catholic Church for the whole world, published a famous interview with then a new 306 00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:45.960 director of the Vatican Observatory in Argentinian Jesuit called the Fullness Father Fullness, And 307 00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:49.559 the title of the interview was very suggestive. And this obviously, you know, 308 00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:53.519 as you know from our even our magazine, headlines are not done cavalierly, 309 00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:59.359 you know, editors, you know, carefully take us a long time, 310 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:03.200 we argue. So the headline was the extra terrestrial is my brother? 311 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:08.119 That was the headline of that article, and which was basically an interview with 312 00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:15.039 Father Fullness. And this was over two years ago, and this received worldwide 313 00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:19.279 attention at the time. And uh, and then later there was even a 314 00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:23.880 second interview with Fullness, and so this was been going on for at least 315 00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:27.920 two years, and this message essentially being I don't think they're here, but 316 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:30.680 if they were, it's not that big of a deal. That's okay to 317 00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:36.240 believe in eat correct that. Yeah, ultimately, I mean what's interesting is 318 00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:40.240 the Church's dealing with this issue, at least at this time, not so 319 00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:44.079 much from a theological point of view, but from a scientific point of view 320 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:48.039 they have. So it's been they're they're handling it through the Observatory, which 321 00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:52.480 is their scientific branch. You know, the Vatican even has an Academy of 322 00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:56.640 Sciences and everything, and it's run by real scientists, and the same thing 323 00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:02.599 with the Observatory. It happens that often these scientists are also priests, especially 324 00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:07.799 Jesuits, who tend to have a very good education. But yeah, they're 325 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:11.160 not talking directly about UFOs, but they're kind of in a way, I 326 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:17.319 guess, preparing public opinion and Catholic opinion that it's okay, you know, 327 00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:21.960 that there is life out there. And then recently they had an entire conference 328 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.480 devote it correct. So this has been kind of creating a momentum, and 329 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.839 the momentum reached the kind of a peak in I believe it was either in 330 00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:34.279 last November or the same. In fact, we do have a short news 331 00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:40.839 article on the first issue, but we'll have a floor or treatment on the 332 00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:45.160 second issue, including an article by Daniel Sheehan, who's an attorney. In 333 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:48.720 fact, interesting enough, he used to be John Max attorney because he's also 334 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:53.720 a Harvard professor. Yes, and he's connected. He also did work with 335 00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:56.960 the Jesuits, so he has very good connections with the Jesuits. So we 336 00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.400 have an article by him and our people by me. We'll have the whole 337 00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:07.160 do'sie and yeah. So there was a conference. It was strictly scientific conference 338 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:12.839 run by the Vatican Observatory in the Vatican itself, and this got again worldwide 339 00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:21.400 attention. One of the most famous personalities was in fact, you did the 340 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:25.799 story where his book got mentioned. That was about something different, you know, 341 00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:30.279 the Hillary Clinton Paul Davis. Paul Davis was one of the most famous 342 00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:32.839 scientists. You know, I don't know about you, and I know it. 343 00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.480 The synchronicities, I think are pretty incredible. It's just kind of strange 344 00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:41.240 that, you know, this discovery around the book that Hillary Clinton was holding 345 00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:48.000 just happened at the same period of time that Paul Davies is getting in the 346 00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:53.279 news like crazy, first of all for his ideas on astrobiology, then for 347 00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:59.000 speaking at the Vatican's conference, and even now he's been on the news a 348 00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:04.640 lot, got a new book coming right talking about his ideas about extraterrestrial life 349 00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:11.839 and extraterrestrial life possibly even being here, as far as microbes that enter our 350 00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:15.640 atmosphere, possibly on a regular basis through mediors or other reasons. Right, 351 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.920 hopefully he will be even an Open Minds Radio one of these days. Right, 352 00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:21.039 Well, they said they were going to be on the show, so 353 00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:22.279 if I got to follow up on that, and hopefully we'll have him in 354 00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:26.039 the next couple of weeks there. So I guess you know, basically, 355 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:33.319 the idea of the of life ex interrestrial life is that that is already being 356 00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.119 dealt, not just by the Vatican, but by even by other institutions. 357 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:41.519 It seems to be safe for people to be talking about bacteria or something. 358 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.319 You know, all, yeah, there's life out there somewhere in the Costmos. 359 00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:48.799 But it's the start, you know. I mean, the next step 360 00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:52.160 is, well, life is not just there as the bacteria, but it's 361 00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:56.480 coming here, being reported here, perhaps for hundreds of years. But even 362 00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:00.599 before Funas said anything. I think one of the things that you have in 363 00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:06.119 your articles a couple of monsignors sorts who had talked about this before. Yeah, 364 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:10.240 and what's interesting is that the monsignors who talked before, we're talking of 365 00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:15.519 another Jesuit, father Grasso, Domenico Grasso, and he was operating in the 366 00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:21.599 sixties and seventies and later of course, uh Monsignor Balducci, Corrado Balducci, 367 00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:26.119 who was the chief exorcist for the Vatican, and I knew him personally. 368 00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:29.640 Actually I met him a couple of times the the lact coal man. Yeah, 369 00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:32.920 yeah, we had a bottle of wine one time. The difference though, 370 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:38.759 between Balducci and Funess is that Balducci was never never had a headline or 371 00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:44.039 an interview in the Vatican Observer, so he was he was doing it on 372 00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:48.599 his own, probably with the acquiescence of the Vatican, obviously, because he 373 00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:53.200 was appearing all over Italian media, but not never like officially in the Vatican 374 00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:57.319 Observatory. Right, that's another step. But these guys got to be a 375 00:30:57.319 --> 00:31:00.200 great article. But sorry, I gotta get job right here because we got 376 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.039 to take another break. But when we come back, we'll let you finish 377 00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:07.559 your idea if you remember it, and then we'll get into the astec and 378 00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:11.839 their omens. So stay tuned, we'll be right back. You're listening to 379 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:48.039 open Minds Radio on Campinet. Welcome back to open Minds Radio. Here now, 380 00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:52.000 former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network, your host of Open Minds 381 00:31:52.079 --> 00:32:01.880 Radio Alejandro Rojas, Hello and welcome back to Open Minds Radio. This is 382 00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:07.400 your host, Alejandro Rojas, and we have Antonio Buneez, one of the 383 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:15.400 premier speakers at the Mundia Cumbre. I can't say it, Mundi cumbre, 384 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:21.079 mundi alog avne, the twenty being their word for UFO. Ovne is the 385 00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:24.720 acronym in all Latin languages for UFO. What is it sand for exactly the 386 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:31.039 no identificato. The only thing is unidentified. You have to put it in 387 00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:36.839 two. Oh, okay, it's the translation of the acronym UFO. But 388 00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:40.519 this is a special conference what we're talking about here, that's going on right 389 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:45.079 now. So at open Minds dot tv right now you can watch the streaming 390 00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:50.599 of this conference that's happening. So it's going to be a lot of fun. 391 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.000 You can check that out for I think it's like thirty bucks. It's 392 00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:57.519 dirt cheap. People to go on there and order and watch. Really, 393 00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:00.680 you have all the some of the main speakers in the world, you know, 394 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:06.160 and from from multiple continents and many many countries. Well, now that 395 00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:09.680 we're talking about Mexico, one of the stories that you have in the second 396 00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:19.400 magazine is Mexico's first ufo way and possibly I guess Mexico's biggest official at the 397 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:24.519 time, Mana Zuma writing ufo. Yeah, that's that's a fascinating story. 398 00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:31.160 I had done some a research project many years ago on historical UFOs, you 399 00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:36.119 know, the types of figures that appear in paintings and things like that, 400 00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:39.960 and I had a grant to do that, and it was in the in 401 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:45.000 the process of that project that I discovered really that if you start reading all 402 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:51.880 the chronicles of the Spanish conquest, you read it consistently in book after book, 403 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.720 and I'm talking not just the modern books, but the actual books written 404 00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:00.480 in the sixteenth century by the Spanish missionaries and some of the ownquistadors, and 405 00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:05.759 they all talk that for a period of perhaps even as much as ten years 406 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:10.480 before the arrival of the Spaniards, which was in fifteen nineteen or nan Cortes, 407 00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:20.480 they were widespread weird phenomena, celestial omens and other strange stuff all over 408 00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:23.800 Mexico, all over the Aztec Empire, and this created a climate, with 409 00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:30.880 psychological climate which was linked to prophecies about the return of Catsakuado, you know, 410 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:36.199 the famous with both a god but also a legendary historical figure, a 411 00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:40.320 king of the Teltics from the tenth century, who supposedly had prophesied that he 412 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:45.559 was going to come back. And all this worked the advantage of the Spaniards, 413 00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:50.760 of course, and they used it quite cleverly to their advantage, and 414 00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:54.840 you know, and accomplished the conquest. And this seemed to have obsessed the 415 00:34:55.159 --> 00:35:00.000 Aztec emperor Montezuma. I mean, he was terrified. He was absolutely terrify. 416 00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:05.000 But he himself saw this. Some call it a comet or whatever it 417 00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:08.079 was. It was certainly a celestial object. It was seeing consistency. That 418 00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:13.719 probably was the comic. But if you read also the different accounts, it 419 00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:19.159 looks like different authors mentioned different years and different behaviors. So not all was 420 00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.840 I don't think everything can be explained just by that single comic. There was 421 00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:28.320 a multiplicity of sightings as well as other phenomena. You know, when you 422 00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:34.000 guys were discussing the case of the birds that the hundred births that dropped, 423 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:37.639 that's the kind of stuff that you find in these chronicles. Not exactly that, 424 00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:43.039 but you know that kind of weird omens. Well, speaking of weird 425 00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:46.239 birds, that the thing that you have in the story about this bird. 426 00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:51.079 The mechanical bird had some sort of jewel or mirror and a classic case. 427 00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:57.159 Yes, so according to the story, there's some fishermen in the lake Tenochi 428 00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:00.480 clan, because at that time Tenochi Clan, which is now Mexican City, 429 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.800 you know, was Venice. It was actually a lake city. It was 430 00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:08.039 canals and everything, and they found this what they described described as a bird, 431 00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:12.639 except that it wasn't a normal bird. Instead of ahead, it had 432 00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:16.199 a round mirror, and they take it to Montezuma, and Montezuma looks at 433 00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:22.920 the mirror and sees stars, and then he sees an approaching army and the 434 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:25.280 way one of the naw Wattle texts now waddle, you know, being the 435 00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:30.639 language spoken in Central Mexico at the time, is neat because of course the 436 00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:32.559 Indians didn't know horses. There were no hostes in America, you know, 437 00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:37.000 Horses came with the Europeans, and originally this used to terrify the Indians when 438 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:40.920 they saw these armored guys on horses, you know, they so anyway, 439 00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:45.119 they in the now Wattle texts, they described them as men riding on the 440 00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:49.679 back of deer, because I guess that was the closest they could this, 441 00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:53.280 this giant bee, right, So anyway, and then he calls again his 442 00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:58.840 astrologers and sooth slayers and pronosticators, you know, this is the way they 443 00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:01.519 mentioned them, in other words, if they would be their chief scientific advisors, 444 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:05.920 you know, and they come and by the time they're going to see 445 00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:09.320 on the mirror, the bird takes off. So I don't know what to 446 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:14.199 make of it. Is you can you can interpret it. Of course, 447 00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:16.239 some people will dismiss it as a you know, it's just a fable, 448 00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:21.960 a legend. Other people will say, well, you could give it and 449 00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:25.440 make a UFO interpretation that it was some kind of device and mechanical device, 450 00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:30.880 and that it had some projections that mont Assuma could see. And then once 451 00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:34.679 that message was conveyed, the thing took off. And then we even have 452 00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:39.159 what could be described as an abduction case of the of a peasant and poor 453 00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:44.920 farmer that I won't tell the whole story so that people can eventually read it, 454 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:51.199 but this guy is basically abducted by quote a talking ego. So again, 455 00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:53.440 this is not a normal bird, you know, it's a bird that 456 00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:57.760 takes into a cave and then talks to him. And as you know from 457 00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:02.480 some of the abduction accounts and the psychologists and people like like Mac call screen 458 00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:09.199 memories, sometimes people had these experiences with what they think are owls or raccoons 459 00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:14.880 or something kind They owl, yeah, the owl and other people have talked 460 00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:19.119 about raccoons, and I believe even deer had been mentioned. Ye, I've 461 00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:22.480 heard of you know, people remembering their bed being surrounded by deer. Correct, 462 00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.760 So in this case is an eagle, which it would be consistent with 463 00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:32.159 aztect you know, Lord well, and being a scientific advisor to Montezuma was 464 00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:39.360 not necessarily something that was something that would end in anything. I don't know. 465 00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:45.199 Some of these guys had been at a sad ending essentially because I remember, 466 00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:49.760 yeah, this is because it's a funny part. He was asking, 467 00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:52.199 as the advisors in the Astrologer, did you see that comment? And if 468 00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:55.880 they said no, they were in deep trouble. Were in deep trouble. 469 00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:00.960 They went to prison, some were even executed. And what's interesting is this 470 00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:04.800 appears in all the chronicles, I mean not every single story. You know. 471 00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:07.679 That's why you eventually have to read a lot. I spent a lot 472 00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:13.360 of time researching this story, but in some of these chronicles are very famous, 473 00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:19.159 and especially the book by Sahagoon Bernardino, the Sahagoon who was the Franciscan 474 00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:23.119 friar. He's been called the father of mes American anthropology. If he had 475 00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:27.119 lived in modern times, he would have been a scientist, not a priest, 476 00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:31.599 because he recorded every single aspect of the Aztec culture, everything their food, 477 00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:37.159 their medicines, their mythology, their history, their flora, and found 478 00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:42.719 beliefs, how they bury the dead, as every single as methodically. And 479 00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:45.360 he had a pool. He knew the now one language perfectly, and he 480 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:50.760 had a pool of now well informers, and these people would basically the original 481 00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:53.800 book was not even written in Spanish, was written in that language and then 482 00:39:54.199 --> 00:40:00.519 summarized by Sahagun himself into Spanish, and he has couple of chapters about the 483 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:05.239 omens. And then the other one, which is I think the parts that 484 00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:09.639 you read, was written by a Dominican friar called Diego Duran, and he 485 00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:15.039 is the one that really goes into a deep psychological profile of Montezuma and how 486 00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:20.000 he was well, I mean, the guy was getting all these omens or 487 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:22.639 whatever, but some of them also came in the form of dreams or people 488 00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:25.920 were telling him basically that I mean, he was the most powerful man, 489 00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:29.960 you know, in the land, and that basically it was all going to 490 00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:32.320 the end. So he wasn't a happy man. Yeah, he was freaking 491 00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:37.519 out, and yeah, the prophecy came true. That's the people may want 492 00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:42.239 to dismiss this thing as superstitious in some of the current books, you know, 493 00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:47.840 by modern historians, they oh, it was just meteorological astronomical phenomenon and 494 00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:52.559 the astic were superstitious people. Well maybe so, but the omens were really 495 00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:58.000 turned out to be true. Also, what's interesting when you're dealing with historical 496 00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:01.800 possible historical UFO ways is, yes, you can still have to deal with 497 00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:07.280 natural phenomena, but certainly you did not have any kind of balloons or secret 498 00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:15.920 military aircraft or airplane, yeah, or or or stealth airplanes or whatever you 499 00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:19.760 know. I mean, so you have to basically reduce it to both either 500 00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:25.159 meteorological or astronomical phenomena. Yeah. So out of the other articles that we're 501 00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:31.159 getting from people, we're going to have another Obama one from Grant and Angela. 502 00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:36.280 Was there any other aspect that I'm forgetting in that and that maybe either 503 00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:38.840 magazine you wanted to point out. Well, I think that we were trying 504 00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:45.360 to do is have a variety of subjects. So in in in every issue 505 00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:47.800 we have like a pilot case. Of course, in the in the current 506 00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:53.320 issue, you know, we have the the interview with major tourists which was 507 00:41:53.320 --> 00:41:58.000 done for the cover story. That's a cover story, and he was an 508 00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:01.760 American Air Force pilot who was told long time ago shoot to shut them down, 509 00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:06.320 you know, And so that's our current story. But in the next 510 00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:10.320 issue we'll have a story by a famous case from friends by an Air France 511 00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:15.719 airline pilot. And of course in every story, in every issue we have 512 00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:21.639 a major abduction case. In the current one we have a very interesting case. 513 00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:24.559 So it's an inbrate of an input removal, right, So that's another 514 00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:29.360 interesting one. So it's a great magazine. Everybody check it out. We 515 00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:32.119 are out of time for this show. Thanks for being on the show, 516 00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:37.000 Antonio. You're welcome. Always a lot of very interesting stuff. Be sure 517 00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:42.559 to join us next week and be sure to go to Openminds dot tv and 518 00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:46.760 order the magazine. Thanks for listening to Open Minds Radio, where we're bringing 519 00:42:46.800 --> 00:43:00.639 the UFO subject into the light of day next week. Keith, forget the 520 00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:09.519 smell of the walls. Summer are the town sleek con SMA thing. If 521 00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:28.159 you watch your feet, the cracks are past hop, alien, sobber, 522 00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:31.639 like a whole movie for folks back on