The following presentation isn't all Marvel Studios Production. Welcome back truth seekers from around
the world. It's time for another edition of the flat Earth Files and we
do have a very special guest standing Bibe before we bring them on. Just
a reminder, please do stop by the website, the flat earth files dot
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inquiries to the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. Again, it is
the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. Let's get to our special guests
this evening, and his name is Brad, and Brad, I want to
thank you so much for joining us tonight. How are you Hey? You
doing well, George? I appreciate you having from me on. It's great
to have you. And without any further ado, why don't you go ahead
and introduce yourself to the audience. Yes, sir, I am a forty
seven year old guy living here in the Hills of Tennessee. Married, have
one child who I just got married off, and she is I've picked up
a son in law that I'm trying to convert over to a flatter earth nice.
So yeah, yeah, he's he's very receptive. He's been digging in
a lot of rabbit holes and I hope to convert him real soon. So
I'm a Navy veteran and been out of the Navy since nineteen ninety seven.
I'm a licensed professional counselor here in Tennessee. And really that's that's one of
the things that I'd like to bring to the table today, is just kind
of the mental health side to flatter something that's not really mentioned that often.
Indeed. And first of all, thank you for your service. And that
was an interesting time to be in the Navy because correct me if I'm wrong,
wasn't about the time frame when the whole tailhook scandal was bringing brought to
the public. Uh, yeah, it was an interesting time. So I
didn't and serve the full four years. Unfortunately I had to to leave the
Navy a little early. But it was definitely thankful for my service. And
time in there. But uh, yeah, there there's so much the Navy
brought to light for me and uh, you know, again, just thankful
for my time there. So I kudos to people like you who were able
to do a career in there. That's that's awesome. Yeah, it's that
there's certainly no other no other job in the world like the military. That's
that's for sure. On that inclusive positives and the negatives. Why don't you,
I guess, as we always do, kick it off, kind of
give folks your you know, little story of how you came to the truth,
and then we'll get into the flat earth and I know you have a
lot of things we want to talk about, will jump into that, Yes,
definitely. Um, I think my truth journey started with nine to eleven.
And I'll never forget that day. I was, you know, not
too far out of the Navy at that point, a few years four years
out, and I was working in a retail store in a mall, and
you know, everybody's like, man, did you hear that plane hit the
towers? And I was like, no, what's going on? And you
know, I took a break and went into the break room and saw that
you know, another plane supposedly hit the tower, and you know that that
was kind of like, I don't know the beginning of truth, and I
didn't really know it. I went back to where I was working and I
was just sitting there listening, and I mean, within hours, they're sitting
there seeing Osama been lading Osama bin lading it, and I'm like, how
in the world would they know that this man has done something that quickly?
So I think red flags started going up pretty quickly. But I was still,
I guess, dumb to the truth and the fact that you know,
we're being fed all these things through the TV, and so I started really
digging through and trying to find, you know, what I believed. And
I don't know how long it was after nine to eleven, but it's probably
a few years after, but I know that I was so upset with the
way Bush handled things that I'm like, man, I cannot vote for this
man, Um, this is this is crazy. So I started digging in
and I don't know if you remember, um Callie, the first video I
ever watched, I think it was called in Plane Sight, and I'm just
like, Wow, this is powerful stuff. Holy cow, what's going on?
And you know, years later here we are now married, Gallie,
I'll see you. It's been eight years at this point. And early on
in my marriage, I brought my wife in and I'm like, hey,
babe, I want you to watch these videos. And at this point I
can't even remember what video it was. Gosh a new Pearl Harbor. I
forget what the video was. It was like four and a half hours.
I'm just like, what do you think about nine to eleven? And she's
like, no, I don't know. It's it is what it is.
And I'm like, what if we did it? And she's like, okay,
I'll sit down and humor you and watch these videos. So I got
her to watch the videos and her first words afterwards were wow, we did
it. And I was like yeah, so you know. I. I
also contacted the navy brother of mine, who is one of my best friends
and still like a big brother to me, and I was like, hey,
man, what do you what do you think about nine to eleven?
And got the same thing, and I'm like, do me a favor watch
these videos, and it really changed his mind as well. So nine eleven
was just kind of that first bite that wow, our government may not always
tell us the truth, you know. I know you talk a lot about
the Challenger, and I remember I here in Tennessee, actually lived in Virginia
at that point, but our school system was out due to snow that day,
and I remember watching that shuttle blow up four hundred times on TV,
you know, and so I was getting programmed as a child that hey,
this is you know, this is truth. Anyway, after nine eleven,
my journey kind of hit on the Moon. And my mother's always told me
that my great grandfather never believed that we went to the Moon, and I'm
like, wow, okay, maybe I'm maybe I'm a lot like him,
even though I didn't get to spend a lot of time with him. And
I started researching, and that's one of the biggest things about the Moon that
kind of helped me later with flat Earth was the Van Allen Belts. You
know, I'm hearing all these people that still believe in planets, as the
you know, prescribe on TV and all this, but they're stating, Okay,
the Van Allen Belts, there's no way we could have made it to
the Moon. You'd have to have, you know, six foot of lead
to protect these guys from cancer and things like that to get them to the
Moon and back. And that's where I was just like, this is really
interesting, you know. So I guess I always knew that there was some
type of barrier that would not allow us to get to you know, what
I perceived back then as outer space. So I started watching hundreds of videos
and I'm like, wow, there's just so many inconsistencies with these guys going
to the moon. You know, they come back and they look like they're
miserable, you know, kind of like what you've said on many broadcasts before.
I would be like, you know, signing autographs, I'd put my
hand on a Bible and say, yeah, of course, a thousand dollars.
You know, I went to the moon. You know, these guys
are like miserable. So, you know, after I kind of squared away
my thoughts with the Moon, um, I kind of jumped over to Sandy
Hook and man, I spent GOLLI a lot of hours on you know,
just that type of stuff. I remember coming across this one video of this
kid in a yellow hoodie where he would just walk around just yes, yes,
you know they call it the zombie video, I think, and I'm
just like, what he is going on? And then I just started noticing
all these other people just walking around like ants, you know, and I'm
just like, Okay, there there's something going on here. So, you
know, whenever they deconstructed that school, they made everybody sign a gag order,
and I'm just like, why would you have someone sign a gag order?
You know, kids have been shot here, they may see bullet holes,
blood, whatever. Why would you need to sign a lifetime gag to
order for this? You know. And then of course you've mentioned uh,
Jim fetzer Man, and I've read his books, a couple of his books,
and they're they're just an light to hear. I think he said he's
sick, he's he's healed and he's done better. And he actually I think
he's back on the radio as of last week. Oh that's great. That's
yeah. He was out for a few weeks. I think he had a
hard issue, but it was taken care of and he recovered. God bless
him. He's he's eighty three and he he does three radio shows a week
and he writes articles. He's full steam ahead. Man. It's impressive.
Yeah. Yeah, So I would read some of his stuff about Sandy Hook.
He had one book that was pretty much banned. And and then there
was a guy Wolfgang how Big Yeah. Would watch some of his videos and
man, he just went after this whole thing. And I'm just like,
okay, you know, so I've got nine to eleven, I've got the
Moon, I've got Sandy Hook. So I came across this video from a
guy named Neil Kramer on Veritas Radio. He was speaking and it's it's called
Stairway of Disbelief, and he explained just conspiracies. And I always like to
say conspiracies not always conspiracy theory, right, that's right. Theory is something
that we have no proof of or or a little proof of, whereas a
conspiracy, you know, it's it's a lot different. So anyway, I
was listening to this Stairway of Disbelief and he talks about people and how you
know they may not be ready for flat Earth if they've not taken that first
step. You know, how do you encourage someone? And you know,
when you think about our families and friends who may look at us like crazy
people, you know, oh my gosh, there's a flat earther um.
Maybe they've not taken that first step, and you know, he talks about,
like that first step it may be that, Okay, if if you
realize that JFK may not have been assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald, that may
be your first step. You know, that that next step that we didn't
find WMD's in Iraq, right you know. Um, So you keep going
up the staircase and he's like, okay, nine to eleven, maybe right
up, you know, to the middle of the staircase that it wasn't perpetrated
by nineteen hijackers. Um, you know, keep going up. Mass shootings
may be faked, you know. And one of the big ones that that
he steps on that I that I like is, you know, the media
has never been fair or truthful. When you go back to Operation Mockingbird Man,
you've got to congre national hearing in like nineteen seventy five. Yeah.
Yeah, So they're sitting there talking about you know, do you have CIA
operatives in the media, And you know, this guy's like, hey,
I think we need to talk about this in executive hearings, and it's like,
well, that's just stating yes, we do. You know. So,
uh, you know, you keep going up this staircase, and it's
like, I think, with each step you take, you know, mine
nine to eleven, the moon, you know, school shootings, things like
that. As you keep going up, you get to a place where you're
just like, Okay, yeah, I'm willing to listen. You know,
I may not believe this next step yet, but I'm willing to listen.
And you know what he says at the very end of this thing is when
you reach the top and you know, he's already mentioned flat Earth at some
point, you know, talking about the sun and moon. Aren't that fall
far away? And you know what if there is no gravity and Earth is
flat? But when he says you get to the top, you find out
that God is real and he loves you. And I'm just like, man,
this is probably one of the best twelve thirteen minutes of audio that I've
ever heard in my life. So I don't know, pretty awesome stuff.
Yeah it is. It is very powerful, and you know, you can
also you know, almost connect something to you know, someone who's just starting
out in basic math, and you give somebody who who is just starting in
basic math, you know, advanced geometry tests. They're just not ready for
it. And We've also talked in the past how you know there are different
levels to conspiracy theories. There's some things that you can say in public at
the watercooler at work nine to eleven GfK, those type of things. They're
the first step type of things, and then you get into other things if
you say it, if you get into germ theory, if you get into
flat earth, you're going to get the hey, you know, George's the
kokie guy at the office type of thing. But that's exactly what it is.
And for folks who have not heard it before, we're going to stitch
it to the end of this podcast. So when we end this podcast,
don't go anywhere. We're going to play the thirteen or fourteen minutes of the
audio that is I believe Neil Kramer on Veritas Radio and it is named the
Staircase of Disbelief, and it's really tremendous. I'm sure many of you have
heard it. If you had it. If you have it, you're in
for a treat. And I think it really lends cretis to the fact.
One of the reasons you know we talk about it here with all the different
guests that we have, is you know, how can we get people to
accept it or at least look into it. And it does go directly into
what he discusses, which is the staircase of disbelief. Yeah, you know,
George, one of the things I'm sitting here thinking about, you know,
my own walk up that staircase and along the way. It seems like
a lot of family members and friends have looked at me like, Okay,
he's a conspiracy theorist, and of course I've I've changed that to know I'm
a conspiracy analyst. You know, yes, I'd like to look into things.
But I can tell you that I've had some some family dinners where I
thought I was going to be asked to leave, especially talking about nine to
eleven with people who like me and yourself, who have served in the military,
and you know, a lot of people like that instantly think, if
this is true, then I served for nothing? Or what did I served
for? Am I serving? You know? A rich man's war here?
And you know, so it's I feel like a lot of people, Well,
I remember, I think it was my cousin called me one time and
he said, hey, we talked about you at at family dinner to night
about how you don't believe we went to the moon. Like you know,
I feel honored that I was spoken of about your dinner and I wasn't even
there, you know, to defend myself or to speak about it. But
I don't know's it doesn't bother me as much as it used to. I
think one of the biggest things that bothers me is our culture teaches a couple
of lies. And number one, if you just disagree with someone, then
you've got to fear or hate that person, you know, or to love
someone, you've got to agree with everything they say. And that's simply not
the truth. It's not whatsoever, But that is what society wants us to
believe today. That's why this whole invention of fact checkers is the worst thing
that these people have ever bought into, especially when it comes to history and
things like that. It's just laughable. And what's really interesting when you talk
about the audio again, folks, you'll hear it at the end. The
guy on Veritas radio, man, I completely lost my train of thought.
Oh my goodness. Anyway, that's all right. I suffered from in atene.
Yeah, my mind goes fifty different ways when people are talking. But
two things that September eleventh and New Pearl Harbor. I'll try to find the
link. Put that in the show description. And what you were just talking
about, how you know, folks who have served in the military, especially
during wartime, it can be very angry. And that's something that I went
through. But there's a movie called nine to eleven. I'm sorry, JFK
to nine to eleven. Everything is a rich Man's trick, And that's also
another one of these three or four hour documentaries, but it really talks about
how, you know, our life really changed on November twenty second, nineteen
sixty three, and you know these major events that were almost these sacrificial rituals,
I mean, Vietnam for no reason. They send they lied about that,
right, and I know they mentioned that in the Veritas. He talked
about how they lied about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that's a
fact. And there was a guy, a British MP who called out Tony
Blair and he got murdered for it. These things are actual events that happened.
So the fact that people we even use the term conspiracy theory anymore,
especially after the blatant lies and tyranny that we saw firsthand during COVID. How
can anybody call anybody conspiracy theorist anymore? Right, Yeah, it's it's unbelievable.
Um, you know, I guess. So I have had a few
conversions that I would. You know, one of my good friends, Mike,
I was able to speak to him, and at first he wasn't ready.
He's like, I don't know about flat earth man, And you know,
I spoke of my navy buddy, Um he was the same way.
And then he's like, wow, you know, I'm really starting to look
into this. Uh my nephew who's in the navy as we speak, Um,
he's he's starting to look at these things. So you know there are
some certain family members that have a little more open mind to it than others.
Yeah. And the other thing that's mentioned, and I say this a
lot, the truth is everybody's own individual journey. And you know, I
got an email a couple days ago from my other podcast. He's been listening
for four years and he's on board with everything, but he still can't get
on board with with flat earth. And I just gave him my opinions and
I said, listen, it's everybody's journey. Sure. You know, you
had Bart sabro On not too long ago, and you know he's one hundred
percent we didn't land on the moon. But you know, for him to
say that, I don't know about this flat earth stuff, and you know,
I have to respect that. And I think that's where we should all
be, is that. You know, if you don't like the color blue,
great, you know, I still love you. You know, It's
why do we have to make certain things, you know, a love or
hate situation with people? I don't know. Yeah, And you have to
respect people's opinions. And if you try to push it on it, you're
simply going to push them away and it's going to make it that much harder
for the next person to try to get them to look at the information.
Let's talk a little bit about your journey to flat Earth and what was the
one big piece of evidence that sold you. Well, it's funny that you
asked, because I, like I said, I'm a licensed professional counselor.
One of my clients came in and I'll be forty eight rather soon. And
this guy came in when I was forty six and he said, what do
you think about flat Earth? And I said, well, I don't know.
I'm forty six. I really never thought about it and really never questioned
it. And he's like, why don't you go research it? I'm like,
okay. The ironic part is this guy, I think still believes in
the globe and that's that's cool, that's him. But he wanted to challenge
me. He expand your mind and see what you believe, because I believe
his wife believed that. So I'm like, okay, yeah, I'll go
home. And I started looking up Google facts you know, about Earth and
math calculations and things like that, and I was just like, all right,
well, um, I'll take a look at this. And when I
started doing the math, and I love math, like this stuff just doesn't
add up. Either the Earth's way bigger than what they've said it is,
or the Earth is flat, you know. So that's that's kind of where
I started. But knowing a lot about like the Navy stuff, and knowing
that you know, of our communications internationally is under the sea, I'm just
like, okay, this is starting to really make sense. And so I
started reading Edward Henry's book, The Greatest Lie on Earth, a fantastic book,
and I ended up buying another book from him called The Sphere of Influence,
and it's more based around the Bible. And I'll admit I've not read
all the way through that. His books are like eight hundred to a thousand
pages. They have to be ready to read, like a Stephen King novel
whenever you're sitting down with one of these things, you know. But I
started rereading the Bible and that's the cool part about it. And I know
there's been many of your listeners that spoken about that how it's either brought them
to God or brought them closer to God. And you know, the math
was kind of the hook for me. The Bible was the concrete. I
started going back to Genesis one, and I'm just like, wow, Like
how often do we read the Bible and just kind of skip over everything or
we just take bits and pieces to kind of make make it what we want,
you know, And I was just like, this is this is phenomenal.
It was almost like God just speaking to me. You know, he
didn't speak audibly, but it almost felt like it. You know, yeah
for sure, and you know, did you have any luck like with me?
I immediately took the knowledge to my wife. Is that something that you
did, and how did that reception go? I did before I go there,
though, and you'll have to remind me, Like I said, my
ADHD will kick in. What is really cool is I keep a dream book
I write down. I have pretty vivid dreams all the time, and since
October thirty first of twenty nineteen, I've been logging, you know, any
major dream that I have. And because I do feel like God still speaks
in dreams, you know, if he did it in the Old Testament,
why would he not do it now. I don't claim to be prophetic in
any sense anyway, but I've had about twenty four twenty five dreams since then
to come true to some fat or you know, to some way, you
know, not in hole but in part. But I went back and started
reading that dream book and just some of the stuff that I had logged,
and there was an entry in there I wanted to read that is just just
real small but it was kind of my precursor to believing in flat Earth.
So I was talking about and I'll just see this that even though I'm a
therapist, I feel like everybody should, you know, seek counseling if they
ever need it. I think everybody should have a counselor, honestly, but
this was a time where I went to a counselor and I just said,
yesterday, I started going to counseling again. The night before I had two
dreams. In both dreams, I was climbing a mountain in a drone and
in a car at counseling. I look at the long haul and it looks
like an incline, but logic says it is flat. I wonder how many
times we look at things from the wrong perspective. What appears as a climb
could only require forward movement to prove us wrong. And what's interesting is a
few days later I had another writing in this and it just said I've turned
much of my life around, but I still feel on the edge of a
breakthrough. The hinge is likely in my faith, what separates me from ultimate
freedom sin? What is the real fear? My word today is perspective.
And I was just like, man, that's so cool to go back and
look at my thought process and you know, dreams and things like that that
you know, was this a precursor for me believing in blad Earth? Maybe?
You know, could it be coincidence? Maybe but for me, it's
pretty powerful. So you were talking about, you know, did I take
these things to my wife? You know, once I was concrete again,
I'm like, okay, she's believing me on the nine to eleven thing.
I hope that she doesn't think I'm nutty and you go to divorce court over
this. But so I'm like, all right, I'm gonna take it to
her. And I was like, hey, babe, you remember you know
nine to eleven and how I brought you that video. And she's like yeah,
I'm like, will you just humor me and launch these videos about flat
Earth? And she's like, okay, sure, you know. And so
we sat down and she's like, wow, this is this is really interesting
and and it was a really I think quick conversion. Either that or she's
lying to me, but I think she's she's pretty serious about it. And
uh but again, you know, it's like she's brought these things up with
her family and kind of gets shot down. But it is what it is,
you know. And And now I keep reading the Bible in a different
way. I started reading books, other books like Book of Nick. I've
read through that at least one time in one version and another about halfway through
in another version. Recently, I've just read the Book of Giants, which
is super small, it's like two pages long, just because there's not a
lot to it that they found with the Dead Sea scrolls. But one interesting
fact I'll throw out there for somebody to research. And I've not taken a
deep dive. I know there's a I don't know a lot of thoughts on
dinosaurs, and I don't know. I've not done enough research to say yea
or nay. You know. I know when Job forty it talks about,
you know, these behemoths with trees or tails as big as a cedar tree.
So in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, maybe maybe that's what
the dinosaurs were. But what's interesting in the Book of Giants it talks about
in chapter three it names all these animals and then says it was for interbreeding,
and then it goes on to put like a little thing about giants,
monsters and corruption filled the earth as a result of vangelic interbreeding. So I'm
thinking, all right, you know, we know about the nephylum and how
that occurred. Yeah, you know, so what about the dinosaurs is this
part of that? I don't know? You know. I mean, that's
but I figured i'd throw it out there for anybody that wants to go down
that trail. It is interesting and maybe that's that's the whole dinosaur thing.
I don't know. And that's very interesting because as we're talking here on what
Thursday night, this is going to drop Sunday night, Tomorrow night, Lifetime.
The interview I did with Gary Wayne is going to d up on Friday
night, and you know, he talks a lot about the nethelums and the
giants, so that that's perfect segue into our conversation we're having tonight. Well
done, excellent, excellent, And uh, I'll try to find the link
for that. I'm sure I can find a PDF copy online and drop the
Book of Giants in the show description as well for folks. Yeah. Literally,
it is like fifteen chapters, two pages in this book of the Apocrypha
that I have. It's it's nothing, um, but I will say there's
a lot of blanks in there. You know, it'll it'll just be reading
along and it's like the blank did blank? You know, So it's you
have to do a lot of deductive reasoning on your own there, But it
is what it is. Uh, but you know, I think I guess
the biggest thing with um, you know, the flatter journey in the Bible
life, I said, I feel closer to God. Um, you know,
could God make a galaxy with all these planets and you know this continuation
of time and space? Yes, I don't. I don't ever want to
put my God in a box by any means and say that he couldn't do
that. Of course I get that. I actually get that a lot from
people who believe or you know, Christians who believe in It's weird how they
describe it. They don't really call it just evolution that they call it like
God's evolution, like he was responsible for it. Like they try to say,
well, yeah, it's not the evolution that they talk about in your
science class, but God was responsible for it. And you know, it's
kind of interesting how some people are half scientism and half whether it's Christianity or
whatever, how they kind of mold them together and just kind of confuses me.
Yeah, I agree with you, And like I said, I'm not
going to put God in a box and say he couldn't do that, right,
But that's not what my Bible tells me, you know, go back
to Genesis and it talks about the firmament, you know, and more than
anything I know, that is way closer to me than what I ever imagined.
Whereas when I believed in space as it is prescribed by others, I
felt like I was the speck of dust, that I was meaningless, I
had no purpose, you know, God didn't always see me, and man
did it ever change that perspective. So I do feel like, and I
can't say for certain, but I would feel like it would be harder for
unbelievers to believe in things like the firmament and flat earth. Of course,
I know you've had a couple of people on your podcast where they're not believers
or maybe they have a different belief and so, but I do feel like
being a Christian is a little bit easier for me to go down that path.
I don't know what are your thoughts on that, George, You mean,
as far as having that conversation in church with flat earth or well,
I just I don't know if it would be that or I've opened up that
conversation to a lot of people, but I just feel like, um,
and here's here's a sad confessional. I feel like I've converted more people to
flat Earth than have to Christianity. Yeah, and that that is something that
right, right, And listen, you don't have to be a flat Earth
to gain entrance into heaven. Right. The most important part of this is
that you accept Jesus Christ in your heart as your personal Lord and savior.
Right, and you ask for forgiveness for your sins and your granted eternity in
heaven. That that is the ultimate truth, right, that that is the
ultimate truth. At the same time, go ahead, go ahead. I
did find it interesting though my church, and I've seen tons of other churches
right now. You know, we're in that vacation Bible School time period,
you know, before real school starts, and a lot of these churches around
here are doing something called Stellar VBS. Have you heard of this VBS,
like vacation Bible School. Yeah, it is Vacation Bible School, but the
title of it is Stellar, It doesn't I haven't heard that, no,
sir. And basically, it's all this space theme. And so I went
into my church. I love my church, but I'm just like, oh
my gosh, all this space stuff on stage getting ready for Vacation Bible School.
I'm about to vomit and uh so, yeah, I'm just wondering if,
okay, are are they trying to a lot of churches buy these programs,
these VBS programs, these resellers or you know, these warehouses or whatever,
and it's like, Okay, they've infected our schools with indoctrination science,
yeah, and indoctrination. Are they trying to do that to the churches as
well? You know, if we get them focused on space, they won't
believe in flat Earth certainly, and they may not even focus on God,
you know. So not saying that that they didn't try to promote Jesus and
God in the Stellar Vacation Bible School. I wasn't there. I can't attest
to that, but I'm certain it was there. It's just wow, you
know, the space theme seems to be everywhere, from candy bars to now
Vacation Bible School, right, yeah. And are you familiar with the ARC
encounter in Williamstown, Kentucky? Yes? Yes, and the Creation Museums pretty
close by there, right right. And I don't remember one of my earlier
maybe it was episode twenty eight or something. Do you remember Josh from the
Founded Earth Brothers? Yes, absolutely, So he went there like within the
last week or two, and they do, they have schedules for every day,
and he went intentionally on a day that the lecture was there is no
such thing as flat Earth. And he went there and when it was turned
over to the audience for questions, they shut him down pretty quick. And
he was even trying to, you know, quote Bible verses and stuff,
which is very interesting because they're you know, I've heard a lot of good
things about them with the arc, and I think they actually have a lot
of educational opportunities on their website. But again, and this is something when
I was talking and again, everybody has their own journey to the truth,
but I had Gary Wayne on and talking about Genesis six and the Nephelum,
and right, we talk about how literal the words are, and then I
asked him, I said, well, if we look at the King James
version of the Creation story and then you fast forward to I think it's Genesis
eleven, the tower Babbel, right, And I said, it literally says
that they used bricks and mortar, like it wasn't used as a as an
analogy or anything. So but he it's again, it's trying to get that
stairway built from from the bottom floor to JFK to flat earth. And I
forget what the other one he compared it to flat earth and something else.
I know that the other big one he had mentioned during that awesome fourteen minute
staircase of disbelief was the truth about World War Two. And that's another one
we talk about nine to eleven and me and my generation. Well you look
at you know, they call the greatest generation and World War Two in the
history that you know, a lot of people question as well, and then
you have to ask yourself, well, how long has this been going on?
M definitely, yeah, it's uh, you know, I know there's
a lot of good hearted people out there, and I'm certain the people at
the arc, uh, you know, have good intentions. I think it's
kind of cool for people to visualize those type of things and you know,
take the walk and just see, Wow, what was it like to of
on this art for a year? You know, the rain for forty days,
forty nights, but they're on this thing for a year, you know,
I don't know. I think there's a lot of good hearted people with
good intentions, but it's I don't know, they're just so ingrained in what
they learned in school. You know, it's like, hey, you know,
welcome to kindergarten, George. This is a globe and this is where
you live. And you're just like okay, yeah, okay, I buy
that. I don't know any different, right, and you go your whole
life. So I think these adults are just at a point where maybe change
is really difficult for them, right, yeah, honey, Robbins. I
had a quote one time that, let me see if I can remember something
like change doesn't occur until the pain of change is less than the pain of
staying the same, you know, And that's very true. You want to
change your body, you want to work out. No pain, no gain
is what they say. Right there, you go, So you know,
one thing unless you want to take it somewhere. I just know I just
wanted to add one thing before I forget um, and it was m IF.
And I've got dozens of emails, and that's probably low to prove the
point that flat earth leads people back to God or leads them to God?
Is there an inadvertent chance that that outer space can people can lead people away
from God inadvertently? M that's a good question. Um, well, especially
when you get into you turn on scientism and all that other stuff. Go
ahead, Yeah, I was gonna say, if you turn on the TV
here in the past day or two, you've got these hearings UFOs and stuff.
So it's like they're doing their best. Of course, I'm sure right
now, it's kind of like, hey, look over here. Uh you
know, there's certain other people in the news we don't want. Certainly as
a coincidence that it's stirring Hunter Biden's trial. It was pure coincidence. Yeah,
yeah, So you know, I think whenever they start that and if
if you look into the whole Project Blue Beam thing, uh wow, that
that's just a whole other avenue. And so I think, yes, they
will try to lead people away from God. And I don't know that's that's
just where they use space. I mean apparently they already are. So I
don't know. It's interesting. Indeed, which avenue I knew? You had
a lot of notes, Um, which way do you want to go?
Um? So, one thing I wanted to mention was the P one thousand
camera. I've ended up buying one. I'm like, I want to look
at this stuff myself. So I've made several trips to the beach. I've
done a cruise. Um. You know. I love going out there,
just kind of checking things out and I'll find markers on maps to find out
how how far away am I. And you know, I've taken pictures from
I know, I've got confirmed pictures twelve and seventeen miles out, you know,
things like that. But one thing that I would really love is if
there's somebody on the other side of this flat plane, especially Australia somewhere like
that. I've actually emailed Lauren a couple of times that you had on the
show, you know, way back, Yeah, and you know, we've
we've conversed a little bit and I was like, hey, I would love
to take some pictures at the same time of the moon or whatever, you
know, that would be awesome. And she said, well, my equipment's
not that great, but I would love if if any of your listeners,
you know, want to email me or whatever and maybe hook up at certain
times to take different pictures and just see what we see. You know,
I think that'd be awesome. That would be awesome. Somebody had mentioned to
me the other day that emailed me from Australia and they said, you know
what's funny, falling stars fall the same way here in Australia as they do
in North America. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, I've never seen a falling
star quote, you know, float up, float up? Yeah, exactly,
So I don't know, I've never seen that. Oh man, man.
I did want to talk a little bit on the psychology side while we
still got time on the colt. You go right ahead. You know,
there's a saying that says, if it will shatter your vision of reality,
you need to ask yourself do you choose sorrow of knowledge or the bliss of
ignorance? And you know, I feel like there's a lot of people who
seek safety in their thought process, and you know, when you do challenge
them, you know, if you say, hey, I knew you.
I knew you were watching the moon landing when you were in school or whatever,
or listening to it on the radio or whatever. If you challenge them,
it's almost like, Okay, if I choose to research this, then
everything that I've really thought my entire life is a lie. And if that's
a lie, then what else is a lie? You know, we've kind
of talked about the big batman up in the north pole, right, and
you know, if if that was a lie, what else could be?
You know, we most of us have figured that part out and we're okay
with that. Why are we not okay with like you said, fact fact
searching for ourselves? But anyway, I think cognitive dissonance and we hear that
a lot. That's one of the biggest things out there where you've got this
mental discomfort when you're holding these two ideas that are conflicting, you know whatever,
if it's a belief of value, you know, an attitude, and
and I think it's that discomfort that kind of keeps people away from things like
flat earth. Chef Scott Fitzgerald had a quote they said, the test of
a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind
at the same time and still retain the ability to function. And it's like,
I think, with every one of my steps up that staircase, that's
kind of what I looked at. It's like, Okay, what tells me
that, you know, nineteen hijackers really did do this nine to eleven thing?
You know, what tells me that it didn't they didn't, And I
think we've got to be able to look at those opposing ideas without immediately discounting
the other side, you know what I'm saying. Absolutely, And and it
goes full circle back to your movie. September eleventh, the New Pearl Harbert,
Lieutenant Colonel Bowman, who was an interceptor pilot for I think a decade
and a half, said there's no way possible that an airplane could fly around
for an hour and forty minutes without being intercepted. That that's a legitimate fact
from somebody who was in the cockpit for fifteen of his however many years he
did in the military. And then you present people with we can see too
far beyond the curve, that is proof water finds its level, just thinking
that we're floating in space. And I had mentioned to somebody in a conversation
the other day who believes that everything is alive from JFK to nine to eleven,
literally, but the only thing that they're not lying about is that the
Sun is ninety three million miles away and we're hurtling through space and spinning and
doing this, and that that's the only thing they're not lying about. Well,
maybe they'll take that extra step up the stairs one day, right right,
And that's the thing, and it's and it's not even a thing where
people will say, even in the truth community. When I had my radio
program, that was a no no, they don't talk about flat earth on
on the Radio police because you'd get obliterated in the comments. Now, I
do think that we have, even just within the last few years, I
think we have seen a lot of progress in the community and it's not quite
as divisive as it was a few years ago. But I still hear very
prominent truthers on say RBN, Republican broadcast Radio, Republic excuse me, a
broadcast radio and other big independent truther radios that will hit the delete button,
will hit the end button if a caller calls in and even whispers the world
flatter. So as truth community, if you're going to have the mantra,
question everything and then hang up on somebody, whether it's the non play,
the no playing theory, or flat Earth, then we're not doing our jobs.
We're not doing our due diligence. Yeah. I had actually looked at
doing a podcast and had a title for it. I was going to call
it Under the Glass did the theme song, was ready to rock and roll,
and I stumbled upon yours because I'm like, okay, is there anybody
else that wants to integrate you know, biblical themes, Nephelum, giants and
flat Earth. And I did the search and and like you said, you
know, I've left the flat Earth name because that's how people find me,
and that's how I found you. And so I'm like, well, this
guy's doing it pretty well. So I think I'm just gonna let him do
it and just not be you know, another another place to go. You
know, I know there's room for a lot of podcasts out there, but
my time can be spent elsewhere. I think you're doing a fantastic job.
George. Well, I'll tell you, and I've said this, We've had
an incredible amount of people that have gone off to do their own podcast.
Sometimes it just comes on. It takes coming on a podcast and realizing oh,
hey, I can do this, and they go off and do it.
And a lot of people have already had success. And I always say,
the more voices we get out there, the better chance we can get
into somebody's algorithm. And you've got a great cadence and a great voice.
You know, at least you just consider doing a YouTube channel and doing something
like that because you're you're a pretty smart guy, and you've you deliver the
words very well. Well. I appreciate that a little bit southern, but
I try. You know, one of the things that I was gonna bring
across you know, you talk about homeschool and your kids, and kudos to
you, man, that's awesome. Thanks. But whenever I talk to clients,
all use a scenario a lot of times when they come in about changing
their beliefs, whether it's about, you know, something they're depressed about,
anxious about, whether it's something in grief, whatever it is, I use
this red sky, blue sky scenario, and I'll state, you know,
if you were homeschooled your entire life and your parents taught you that the sky
was read, you know, that's exactly what you're going to believe, You've
got zero reason to question. And of course I know you you've said,
you know, you tell your kids, Hey, this is what they're teaching,
this is what mom and dad believe. Again, kudos to you,
that's awesome. But you know a lot of people will come into the office
and if that was their their plea that you know, the sky's red,
and I said, no, George, sky's blue. You've got this cognitive
dissonance, and you know you're going to start disputing and pushing back, and
it's going to feel really uncomfortable at first until I start showing you enough proofs,
until I bring enough people in to say this is you know, the
sky really is blue. I don't know it's I think it would be hard
to bring somebody in and change their thoughts on you know, just a sky
color. So imagine what we're talking about with flat earth right right. It
can be challenging. It is very challenging. And I'm here as someone.
I'm here to tell you it was two weeks and I can still see myself
walking circles in my bedroom at two o'clock in the morning with my arms folded
and shaking my head because you know, here you are. You've lived the
first you know, forty close to fifty years of your life believing you know,
it's like your basic core values, right, the sun comes up in
the morning and it's that's in the evening, and you live on a ball
and you know, and you're told two things when you're a youngster. You
know, there's a fat guy who lives at the North Pole, and you
live on a ball with all these other planets. Right, how many people
have children and they have the crib and they have all the planets hanging above
their crib. And everything from Sesame Street all the way to when you graduate
to two Star Wars and everything else is based on space. Every time you
go to the movie theater, what is it open with a spinning ball of
some sort. And it's interesting that even back in the early twenties when Universal,
they knew it was a spinning ball, and how everything looked before we
ever got a photo from nineteen sixty nine thanks to the three astro Knots who
just happened to be Freemasons. When Stanley Kubrick dropped his direct to TV movie
The Moon Landing on July twentieth, nineteen sixty nine. Rights, it's just,
you know, it's this Bernasian. I don't like to use the word,
but it's a mind screw. Let's just say what this whole the whole
world is a lie. And that's what I tell everything. That's how I
in a lot of the emails. Almost everything that you are told is a
lie or at least questionable. On the news, you're fed information that at
best is truth sprinkled with lies or lies sprinkled with truth. Everything is done
for a reason. Like if you watch I'm just going to pull a TV
show out of my head, Deadwood that used to be on HBO. Right,
what do they do the whole movie? They drink And that is subconsciously
telling your mind, Oh, you know, maybe I should get a drink
that looks cool. These guys look cool. They're they're they're cowboys. They
have their boots and they're in Deadwood and they got their you know, the
their boots up on the table and the old bars and the women are walking
around and they're enjoying their whiskey. Everything is done for a reason in this
world, in the matrix, I'll call it. Yeah, And Georgia,
I do have to uh say, I was mad at you one time whenever
you should leave it to Beaver because that was one of my favorite shows too.
I'm not I'm not going back to watch it again, but I'm like,
oh my gosh, a globe in almost every episode of beginning me,
how did I miss it? You know? And it's just it's programming it
is wow. Yea. You know, there's a few terms I would like
to throw out there to people and just you know, when you think about
what we do, discount in what we see and hear. Um. There's
a term called a pill two consensus, So that's you know, if a
large number of people believe something, then it has to be true, right,
And then there's appeal to authority, which means and you saw this like
in the whole Sandy Hood thing. Let's put a guy in a lab coat
up there and Wayne Carter believe right, yeh yeah, yeah, Wayne Carver.
So you know somebody wears a lab coat or badge, then it has
to be true. That's appealed to authority. Yeah, And then there's credentials
fallacy, and people may say that about you and I that you know,
somebody doesn't have the credentials. You know, I'm not a rocket scientist.
I don't know about you, George Open. So if we don't have the
proper credentials, then it can't be true. And I think that's why a
lot of people in the truth community get discounted that you know, they don't
have certain titles. But then you've got people like professor Dave, who's not
a professor, right, and people's just eating that stuff up right, absolutely,
And I'm so glad you mentioned that just now, because during the entire
year of twenty twenty and I'll say towards the end of twenty twenty one,
we were getting kicked off social media. I had my PayPal taken away.
If you questioned COVID, the narrative or the vaccine, you're deplatformed because again,
you don't have the expertise of a person who has their degree on the
wall, right, Because Fauci was he's the do all, say all,
he is the master of all. And here we are two thirds of the
way through twenty twenty three. And I don't say this with any joy whatsoever,
but there are young people dropping dead every single day, and the even
reports coming out now that ninety three percent of the people are getting sick are
vaccinated. And that's not me standing up here saying haha, I told you
that's the same argument. When you have a guy who's like Joe Buck,
who is one of the great play by play guys of the NFL and Major
League Baseball, never played a day in his life, never wore a uniform,
but he does the job well, he has the knowledge. So you
don't have to have a degree on your wall to have basic common sense.
Yeah, I didn't start counseling till I was about forty two, and you
know, a lot of my life I had a high school diploma, an
associate's degree. I sat on that for a long time, and you know,
I lived out in the corporate world and I enjoyed my job. But
I don't feel any more complete now having that degree on my wall than I
did back when I graduated high school. In fact, you know, I
set out to, you know, be the very best. And it's like,
Okay, whoever has the top grade and whoever has the lowest passing grade
has the same degree on their wall. What does it really matter? You
know, nobody asked me like, hey, what's your great point average?
One will make sure you're a good therapist. Well, a great point average
doesn't make you a great therapist, no period. You may not just be
a good test taker exactly. I like that I have had life experience along
with Yeah, you know, the degree, and uh, I don't know.
I hope that makes me a better therapist, but no, I agree,
I would rather go. If I, if I had a choice,
I'm always going to choose. And that's not to take away because I'm sure
there's some just great you know pastors there, there's a great um you know,
folks like yourself out there who are younger and just advanced in their wisdom.
However, um, you can't get that type of wisdom without those life
lessons that older folks have gone through that we we've had the bumps and the
bruises and we're like, oh, okay, maybe I shouldn't do it this
way, and we can take that knowledge and share it with the people we're
talking to. Yeah, it's uh. You know, I was speaking about
my previous counseling with a therapist and I remember telling this individual it was like
the first time that I had said it. But I'm like, I like
me and man, I broke down. I'm like, holy y'all, I've
never really said that. And it was after I told her four of the
most difficult things that I've been through in life, and it's like, wow,
I had to go through that garbage to kind of be the guy that
I like. And you know, if I if I I don't know,
you hear people say, I'd love to go back knowing what I know now,
and I'm like, I wouldn't change anything about my life, even those
those bumps and bruises along the way, because that who that's who molded me
or that's what molded me into the guy that I like. So I don't
know, that's uh, that's just it. I guess. Yeah. I
got that question all the time. They say, hey, now that you
know that nine to eleven was an inside job, would you go back?
And No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't change anything. That is exactly what
you said. Your life experience is what makes you who you are and who
you are today. So no, I wouldn't change a thing, absolutely not.
Yeah. Um, just thinking of some other avenues I wanted to truck
down. One thing is there there's um a very well known psychology website out
there, and they throw out quite a bit of propaganda and some of the
things that they talk about, Like you can just type in flat earth and
psychology and your eyes are going to open wide to all this garbage that they're
trying to sell that. You know, there was something about I want to
shoot what was it? I may even have it here. Yeah, researchers
have found that this conspiracy mentality, and I'll put that in quotation, correlates
with particular personality traits including low levels of trust, increased need for closure,
feelings of powerlessness, low self esteem, paranoid thinking, and a need to
feel unique. And I'm like, wow, Like you're you're basically telling these
people who want to do their own backed researching and you know, own thought
process, that they've got to fit into this box. And it's kind of
like, if if I were to diagnose somebody with schizophrenia, I'm going to
say, Hey, you're sufferings from schizophrenia or you have schizophrenia, not you're
schizophrenic. Right, that immediately says you have to live in this box that
these people who you've never met have written about in a book and prescribe to
your life. That's not fair to anybody. You know. I don't care
what mental disorder out there, it is. So whenever you pull these things
up and they immediately discount people who think differently than they do, It's like,
what else are these people selling? You know? And I believe there's
really good things out in the mental health community, for sure, but I
don't think that we can put everybody in a box. No, you absolutely
can't. And I know one of the barriers you probably have to deal with,
especially in the realms of therapy, that kind of aligns with what we're
talking about today. I know there's people out there who know in their heart,
like whatever, what they're doing or what they're thinking is wrong, but
they just don't want to change. Sure, yeah, there's that's why I
no longer see children like I'm an eighteen and plus type of guy. In
fact, and you've before I say my next comment, I'll say you've had
some young people on your show that have been phenomenal. Oh yeah, when
I state this next comment, you know there are some outlier But I honestly
wish that I didn't see anybody below, say age twenty three, because if
your mom or dad calls me to set up the appointment, tells me you're
not at a place where you're ready for counseling. And I really like to
work with people who see the value in counseling and want to change. A
lot of people are not wanting to change, and that's another reason why couples
counseling is super challenging. I do that as well, and you've got one
person that comes in who's one hundred percent wanting to save their marriage, and
you've got another person that's hanging on by a fingernail. And sometimes you can
see you know, I never say it, but it's like, all right,
this person is checked out. They're done, you know. And I
will do anything in the world to save a person's marriage. But when you
see these people who are sitting on polar opposite ends of the world, Um,
I don't know, it's it's tough. So I like people who see
the value of wanting to change. Sure, I'm sure you have a greater
level of success with people who want to go to counseling than people who say
have to go to counseling. Absolutely, And you know, it's it's nothing
against kids. I have counseled kids before in the past. It's just not
my forte. And there are other great therapists who can do that, so
I leave that up to them. Um. You know, they say you
can miss life by eighteen inches and that's distance from head to heart, right,
that's right, And I think that's part of change. You know that
we have to learn to sink those two Your heart will lie to you,
you know, it's your feelings aren't always truthful with you. No, it's
I think emotions, you know. And if you're angry or disappointed, that's
that's like taste buds. You just that's what your mind is saying, and
there's nothing to change there. But if I feel that George hates me or
thinks I'm stupid, is that accurate? Just because I feel it, you
know what I'm saying. So I don't know. I feel like I'll tell
you what, man. I read this book very recently. I do a
lot of work with grief, and that is one of my favorite things to
work with. And if you think about grief, we all grieve in some
way. You know, you live long enough and you will have lost people
in your life, you know, but we've all lost a job, or
a relationship or a wallet or whatever it is. You know, we've we've
all lost. But there's a book out there called The Grieving Brain by Mary
Francis O'Connor that I've recently read. And what I like about the book is
it has talked about in all in this fact, I will say science versus
emotion, So it's pretty cool book. But in the book, she talks
about these two worlds that we have. One is a virtual world, not
like a virtual reality, but a virtual world where everything that you've you know,
had to eat, everything that you've read, every conversation that you had,
it's all being uploaded into your brain on a daily basis. So your
mind says, hey, my world is this way, and as long as
everything is kosher and everything's running smoothly, your real world matches up with that.
So if you have a loss, like in you do, lose a
loved one, whatever it's there's a fracture there in your real world no longer
matches that virtual world. And that's why there's all this discomfort. I feel
like whenever you're going down, say the flat Earth path, that there's something
very similar there. And I call it awakenings in life, kind of like
the Santa Claus thing, when when you were awakened to that, you can't
go back to an unknowing, right. And I feel like with flat Earth
and you start taking on this information and really any rabbit hole that you want
to go down, if you take on these things, your virtual world no
longer matches up with that real world, and it hurts. So they just
think of the real world as your real time experience. In fact, she
did this study with rats that was really cool. I'm a big fan of
rats studies. But they would send these rats in and there was like this
tower of blue legos, and of course they had the little brain map thing
on this rat as it would passed through, and they started figuring out that
there was these neurons that kept firing called object cells or that's what they named
them, and that tells us where things are in life. So once they
figured that out, they removed the blue legos and started sending this rat through
again and they found this other set of neurons that would fire, and they
named them object tray cells, and that's there was something here before, but
it's no longer there. And you know, in grief, it's the same
thing. When we lose someone that's like wow, it takes a lot of
passes back through that maze, just like the rat before those neurons start settling
down. And I think whenever you're looking at something like blad Earth or nine
eleven or JFK, whatever it is, I think there's going to be that
discomfort, But then it becomes almost second nature, so you know, you
were talking about Star Wars Wars earlier, and kudos to one of your previous
guests just recently who said they still like to kind of zone out and watch
some of the space movies. Sure, I can't. I can't stomach Star
Wars or Mars or any of those movies anymore. And yeah, it's really
hard. Um, And I will say that I know you're up in the
Philadelphia area huge. I'm a huge Flyers fan. I've heard you talk about
the Flyers man. Man, it's been a heartbreak for forty No, it's
almost fifty years now. Oh my gosh, seventy five the last time they
want a cup, that's right. So yeah, I not know. We
all need a place to zone out, but I just I can't stomach that
stuff anymore. So I feel like my real world is, or my virtual
world is starting to mend with that fracture that my real world placed whenever I
started learning about all these things. Um, you know that sometimes we've got
to recall that we can't work our way back to a place yeah no longer
exists, right, it's we're away, we're awake, and that's just a
tough place to be in life. Yeah, and that is yeah, you're
you're one hundred percent. And I mentioned that sometimes in a weird way,
I kind of long for the days when you could just sit down and kind
of watch a movie or watch sports. Now, even if I watch a
movie, I'm not even watching the main story. I'm looking in the background
for numbers and symbols and freezing and it's just ridiculous. But you can't.
You're right once. And that's another speaking of movies, it's very much like
the Matrix. Once you take the red pill that there is literally no going
back. And like you said, it's a journey, and it's a very
emotional journey for many people. I've had people on that said it, you
know, I kind of figured it and that and for those people, it's
like they must be very receptive to the world and have been kind of hipped
everything, and maybe I think a lot of it goes back to their parents
that are open. I wanted to ask you this, what are your thoughts
because, like again with children, you're told two things that you know,
you live on a globe and Santa's real. As I'm going to ask you
this as first as a therapist and secondly as just Brad, what are your
thoughts on the whole Santa's story and telling children basically a lie. Well,
I have to say that this is Christmas is a weird story for me,
but I'll throw it out there. I'm fairly transparent, and my dad left
my home the day after Christmas whenever I was about I think fifteen, either
fourteen or fifteen, and so Christmas kind of left a sour taste in my
mouth for many years. And I'll say that me and my dad are best
friends. It's you know, all of my family gets along. It's really
weird. Even my dad and mom get along, and you know they're both
remarried and everything's cool. But you know, as a child, as a
fifteen year old child, when that happens, and let me throw this out,
that weird fact. Literally, the day after Christmas that year was the
first time I ever saw a falling star with my own eyes. It really,
yes, I promise, it was crazy, and I just I kind
of took that as a sign from God that hey, you know, I
see you, You're gonna be okay, and you know here I am,
I guess I am. But you know, so Christmas left a really sour
taste in my mouth at that point. But when I have my own daughter,
things changed and it's like, wow, that love for Christmas kind of
came back. I could celebrate with her and you know, just kind of
create that. And I grew up in a church too that we didn't really
celebrate Christmas as Jesus's birthday either, so I'll throw that out there. So
it was always surrounded around Santa. So you know, after my daughter grew
up in things, it's like, I still carry on. I love being
Crosby, man. I love to listen to some good old Being Crosby at
Christmas or any time for that matter. But I don't know. Um knowing
you you kind of had a challenge its terrible episodes ago when you were talking
about the North Pole, and you know, a lot of people don't really
do a lot of digging into the North Pole. You know, we always
focus on Antarctica and South Pole type of thing, but never look at North
Pole. So I don't know. And again, I've only been i'll just
say a flat earther since you know, a year and a half ago at
this point, So I don't know if I really even thought about it this
past Christmas but I guess to each their own and and you know, I
won't take away that. But when you think about all the things where Santa
okay, we're only one letter off in Satan, yes, And it's like
who created this? And why are we taking the focus off of the real
North Pole? Um, you know? And why are we taking our focus
off of, you know, the birth of the Savior, regardless if he
was born on December twenty fifth or not. Right, I don't know.
I just there's a big part of me that will probably always celebrate the hallmark
type of Christmas. But but we know, right, you know, And
and it's uh again, it's one of those awakenings when you learn that this
isn't what it used to be or this isn't true, it does lose some
of that luster indeed, and that again at the emotional attachment, the memories
of you know, being little, waking up and running down and seeing the
presence or even with our church, we used to, uh, you know,
a couple of days before Christmas, we would go out on the evening
and we'd uh do Christmas caroling to the shut ins and different people, and
uh, you know, there's an emotional attachment to Christmas. But but you're
right, as you get older and you kind of especially once you're in the
truth community, and you kind of realize there are some different aspects to Easter
and m and Christmas. But again, I think as long as you keep
the focus, you know, if you keep your hands on the steering wheel
and your high straight ahead, and you really put those things forward. And
with all that being said, again, to each their own. Everybody has
their own journey to the truth. I'm not here to tell anybody how to
live their life. It's just something that as I've gotten older, I've questioned
myself, like, is it okay to lie to my child about this?
And even my littlest one, you know, my oldest four they were all
on board and everything, but even my littlest one, she never really bought
the whole Santa thing. That's interesting. Yeah, she's she's a little conspiracy
theorist in the house. She's like, what you're telling me? This guy
who number one is out of shape? Right, I can't fit down half
the chimneys. We don't even have it, you know. It's just she
was very funny about the whole thing. But it is interesting that you know,
in hindsight. It's just interesting that we're okay with starting children off with
a lie and then saying, well, that's not really true, but the
ball yeah, that's that's still true. Yeah, I don't know. I
encourage everyone to seek truth, whether it's truth in their own life or truth
out in the world. And I think that's the best thing that we can
do, is encourage our kids to seek that truth from from an early age,
whether it's Santa Claus, Easter Bunny to you know, Christ to everything,
um, you know, just find truth and of course you know truth.
I don't believe that truth is relative, right, relative truth to belief.
Truth changes based on the individual's understanding of it, right, whereas absolute
truth is true regardless of how a person thinks or feels about it. So
I think we have to look at truth and encourage truth and you know,
as you say, drop some breadcrumbs along the way, but we have to
let people be individuals to absolutely on one thousand percent. We're at like the
the fifteen minute warning. So I told you I would say, you know,
ask you to look at your listen. Was there some things that we
haven't touched on yet that you wanted to get into you know, we've covered
a lot of what I wanted to talk about. I certainly appreciate you know,
you're letting me come on. You know you always ask for for final
thoughts, and you know I had one out there. I was just kicking
around the other day, and I'll throw it out there. And I'm sure
you know, there's probably some quote scientists that could try to put me in
my place over this thought. But you know, I've been out on the
ocean several times, but I was thinking, Okay, if I'm in the
middle of the ocean, I can't see land anywhere in sight, then I
should be on the tallest, flattest part of the Earth. For me,
in that position, if I were on a globe right right, why does
the view of the ocean still elevate from that point? I should immediately be
looking over or straight out. But that horizon, as we know, always
comes to eye level. So I just wondered that, and I would love
for someone to explain that to me. You know, it's like I should
be on the highest point of the earth if on a globe, and of
course I don't believe that I am, but nobody ever talks about that.
I did see Dave Weiss with a picture and I think he've even mentioned this
on your podcast at some point where he just puts a few lines up and
says, okay, which line is higher than the other, and then he
puts up this picture and you're like, okay, then yeah, this this
actually should be lower in this picture than you know, the ocean or the
sand. Have you seen that picture? Yes, it's amazing. Yeah.
Yeah. So it's like sometimes our eyes will lie to us. But at
the same time, I pass a lot of lakes and things where I'm at,
and I'll drive by in the morning headed to work, and I just
look out and it's just as calm as being perfectly still. Yeah, thousand
miles an hour, right, Yeah, it's uh, I don't know.
Yeah. And I have two questions to ask you, one being why do
people I guess I could ask this for Brad the therapist. Why are people
so quick to believe someone else because whether they have a lab coat on or
they have an official title versus what they can see here, smell, feeling,
taste. I think it goes back to that credentials fallacy, you know,
or not the credentials fallacy, but the appeal authority fallacy. Yeah,
yeah, you know that this person it's kind of like you go up to
somebody in a police officer, you know, for him, and it's this
person's here to help. You know, this person has a badge and we
just immediately throw that out there. You know. It's whereas if somebody in
street clothes comes along, you got Clark Kent popping up to help you,
and you're gonna be like, no, I'm waiting for a superman or a
cop, right, you know. So I think that's the biggest reason why
people look to authority figures. That's why people turn to mainstream media's and I
try to get all my parents and you know, all all these people off
of you know, seeing in Fox and you know, just turn your TVs
off. That's that's the best thing I can tell somebody. Go do your
own research. Don't listen to me or anybody else. You know. I
put myself in the same thing like I'm I'm going to drop that breadcrumb,
but go research it for yourself, find out what you believe, and then
come back to me, and hey, we'll have coffee in a discussion.
So I don't know, that's that's the best way I can describe that.
There you go, now for the million dollar question in your opinion, why
the lie? I think it's to keep us from God. Period. You
know, as a believer, that is my biggest thing is if I can
convince you that there is something more, that space is forever continuing. Um,
how did that happen? You know? In my world, God said
it's finished, and it is good. In the science world, they always
want to keep you searching for something else, something greater, and it keeps
your eyes off of God. Period. Couldn't agree more. Um, It's
been a tremendous um hour and a half and I am looking forward to the
new podcast, Flat Earth Arapy with Brad. I'm just kidding that. Yeah,
run with it, man. It's been a real pleasure of talking to
you and looking at it from this side. You've made so many great points
and I know it's going to resonate with a lot of people, because,
Um, this is one of the rabbit hole holes that does change your entire
perspective on life. At least for most people it does. And it's it's
a shame because it's one of those things where you just want to run to
the mountaintop and scream and then you hear this guy some moron, right right,
So it is the most challenge. I call it the Granddaddy. This
is my new manch I'm calling it the Grandaddy of all conspiracies because it's it
is the ultimate truth bomb. At the same time you can be so belittled
for it. There you go. Can I say one last thing of course?
Right ahead? Yeah, hey, um. I spend a lot of
time with people who have gone through trauma. Um, maybe it's childhood trauma
where they've been taught down to by parent, or maybe they were bullied at
school, whatever it is, and you know, I'm seeing them in adult
form. And there I'm trying to first say, you have to lay down
these lies before you find out who you truly are. And I really work
a lot on people's identity, you know, try to find out who you
are and take it to every level of life, whether it's your spouse,
your church, your job, whatever. But the biggest thing I hear people
come in and say, and and I used to say this to myself,
is I'm weird. And I have eradicated that from my thought process, just
the whole word of weird and I think when we go down these rabbit holes,
you know, people will call us weird, or you know, maybe
we'll think we're weird ourselves. You know, weird has this negative connotation that
says I'm a freak of nature, right, But I just wanted to throw
out and you know, Psalm one thirty nine fourteen states, I will praise
you for I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. Marvelous are your works, and that
my soul knows very well. And I just want to let all your listeners
know that you're not weird. This is probably going to be episode what seventy
five ish somewhere in there. Yeah, if you made it this far on
the Flat Earth Files podcast, you must be in deep at this point.
But you know, I think people need to know that they're unique, they're
one of the kind, and that God truly does love them. And uh,
George, that that's basically it for me. Man, I really appreciate
you. I appreciate the opportunity to come on here, and uh so excited
that that you're going to stitch in this clip at the end, and I
hope people stick around to listen for that, because man, it is it
is powerful. It is again. Thank you man, thank you, and
it's really wonderful to me you and just so much knowledge. I love these
conversations. I learned something from everybody I've ever had on the podcast, and
once again I've learned so much today. And do check folks, check the
show description. When you're done. We'll have these links. Jeffk to nine
to eleven, that video. I'll have the video to September eleventh, the
new Pearl Harbor, and then I'll track down that PDF for Book of Giants
for you all to check out. In the show description. More rabbit holes
for you to go down. And don't go anywhere, folks. As we
sign off again, there's another fourteen minutes or so, and our thanks to
Veritas Radio and Neil Kramer for this audio and for Brad. This is George.
We're going to sign off and we're going to turn the show over to
Neil Kramer and the Staircase of Disbelief. Keep your head on a swivel and
we will see you the Staircase of Disbelief. So we're going to high here
nihilism to flat Earth. Right, if you consider the ability for people,
this is what you're talking about. The ability for people to grapple with very
controversial parapolitical ideas or with hugely alternative perspectives on let's say historical events, globalist
politics, metaphysical ideas. Just this sense that the great holographic illusions of reality
must be encountered if you want to know what's going on, and there's there's
different levels of that. And for me, a useful thing to do is
place things within a sort of classification system of elevating incongruity, right, elevating
astonishment, higher and higher levels of mind bending improbabilities. Right. So in
my work with individuals, which is like ninety of what I do, we
call this funny idea the staircase of disbelief, right, And let me just
explain what that is, because it's dead simple. Imagine a staircase that stretches
up into the sky into the clouds, right, and low down on that
staircase are certain certain subject matters where you can take a step on it,
a little step. Let's take an easy one. JFK was not assassinated by
Lee Harvey Oswald, Right, So let's say that's step one. So that's
a conspiracy that is kind of obvious, and anyone who's just looked at that
for two seconds thinks, well, he can't have done It didn't happen like
that. There's something else that went on. Right, Okay, well done.
You've just taken your first step on the staircase. Right, so you've
got your foot on the first stair you're on it. Right. Let's take
another one, easy one WMDs Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction capable
of reaching England or America in two thousand and three, which was used as
the justification for an invasion of a sovereign nation. Weapons of mass deception is
what it was used. That's right, weapons of mass deception. Weapons of
mass destruction were not real, and Tony Blair and George Bush lied, and
people who exposed that deceitfulness were assassinated, like Robin Cook, the British MP.
He exposed that light and they killed him. Let's say that's step two,
right, You see where I'm going with this. Yeah, and you're
on the steps and there's other ones. We could go through a bunch,
but let's say you get the idea low down on the staircase. There's some
slightly unbelievable ideas, but nevertheless they are true, and once you've taken a
few steps up there, you then start to get the idea that the world
is not your way the way you thought it was. And then you get
let's say, midway on the staircase ninety eleven, ninety eleven was not due
to nineteen Arab pie jackers, first and foremost, because many of them have
turned up a life fact. Go and check that out right from the start.
It wasn't. And then we meet and you and I have spoken to
this woman Judy Would and people like that who have got a clear thinking head
on the shoulders, who were not swayed by nonsense, not pushed by trends
and popular themes, not threatened who tells us that there's a serious problem on
that day. That's a big one. That's kind of midway up the staircase,
that ninety eleven, and it's as you know, mel, it's a
big one that it's a world changer for people. So that's that's a classic
what I would call in the old days stargate event. Once you've moved through
that stargate of that, you know, one or two years personal study,
things are never the same again. Right, So let's say that's midway on
the staircase and on the next stair Mass shootings are often faked, so easy
to see improve that so easy. But you see, now, if you
haven't ascended the previous stairs, you can't believe that. You cannot believe the
idea that the US and UK governments, operating under instruction from global empire,
routinely murder children and women and men to advance gun restrictions, aggressive mental healthcare
policy, and a sort of increasing dependence on the state. That's unbelievable if
you're not already gone up the staircase, are you with me? Oh,
certainly right. Whereas if you have walked up some of those stairs prior stairs,
you think, well, I can imagine that. To be honest,
I'll need to take a look. I'm not just going to believe it willie
nilly just because Mel said it, but I'm going to listen to what the
evidence is provided with all these different guests that talk about shootings and PSI ups
and whatnot, and I'm going to check it out. And it really isn't
very difficult to be a quality researcher. It's really not. You need to
train yourself, you need to develop your sermon. It takes a while,
but it's not hard. Really, isn't that hard. And when you look
at it you see the staggering problems, particularly all the doctor photographs in Sandy
Hook. Big giveaway, big, big, big giveaway. Another one on
that on the midway point, the media is not fair and never has been
never, never, never, never, never has been. Once you start
to grass the magnitude of empire, that's that's not too difficult to get to
that, right, And then you get to another one. This is a
tough one for some people because we're midway, we're getting higher on the staircase.
Now, is it possible that we conceive of a situation where all kinds
of organizations like the United Nations and the Bank of England and Black Lives Matter
and at anti Fascism, Occupy, Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, Women's March.
Is it possible that those groups are actually bad, that they appear to be
grassroots uprisings of people wanting equity and justice. Of course, no, no,
no, no, wrong, that's not what they are. They've not
arisen organically, and they do not present reality. They are conditioning beacons,
and they suck in the unwary and empty them out. They sort of amplify
unreality, only only to create this extended, extended movie, this long playing
movie that goes on and on and fake polarizations, always fermenting division, always
exploiting the weakest members of society, people with nothing, who don't have a
chance to sit back and educate themselves, who don't have a chance in hell
of that they have. They are the foot soldiers of those groups. Oh
wow, really, so all that anti fascism stuff and all those good people
who think that that's all garbage. That's right, that's garbage, all of
it, all garbage. That's a tough place to be. If you can
stomach that, then you get further up. Let's say the top part of
the staircase. World War two is almost the exact reverse situation as we've been
taught in the timeline, almost the exact reverse of everything. Who the Allied
powers are, who the Axis powers eyes, almost back to front. World
War two is one of the biggest psyops that you've ever seen in your life
because of the extended period of time for it. The Holocaust, millions of
Jews did millions of Jews die as part of an organized final solution in gassings.
Did that happen or did it not? And then you come to other
things that are more impersonal. The sun and the moon. They're not far
away, They're not what we think they are, maybe further from the moon
we just mentioned this. If that is true, the Holocaust that exist,
then why is it that the deaths that happened in the former Soviet Union,
which were dwarves, what happened is totally in all those countries Germany? Why
is that not publicized as much as the others? Right? Exactly, that's
part of like one hundred things to look at about World War Two. That's
like number fifty eight. Absolutely, you're absolutely right, really important. But
do you see what I'm saying here, Mel Because you've already taken many steps
up the staircase. I can walk into your living room and say, hey,
how about that Holocaust, and you're like, I know, it's crazy,
I wonder what the situation is. There's so many question marks. You
can do that in two seconds because you've already walked up the staircase, even
if you've only just heard that bit for the first time. Stare seventy eight
for the first time. Yeah, But don't go to Europe. Do a
question, because you'll go to jail. You'll go to jail because people in
Europe are not allowed on the staircase. They're not allowed on it at all.
If I go down to the local coffee shop here in my little town
in Washington State and start talking about that, so I think the police would
arrive and take me off in a truck, you know, and think,
well, that's some sort of racial hatred thing. What on earth are you
talking about? You and semi racist, xenophobic, bigger white privilege bastard,
what another you're talking about. No, you wouldn't do it, because we
know that no one's gone up that staircase. Nobody's done it. You go
up further. The Earth is not a sphere. The Sun and the moon
and not what you think. They are the same size, not far away.
There is no gravity. Humans are and sold children of divine source,
and right at the top of the staircase, God is real and loves you.
That's the hardest one for anyone to believe, the hardest one. Even
stupid religious people don't really accept that. In the heart. They have a
different version of it. That staircase, that staircase of disbelief is what allows
one person to examine a thing and another person not to examine a thing.
You forget mel and they say this tongue in cheek. You forget how far
you've already come up that staircase for the last fifteen years. You forget how
many steps you've taken, and you forget what giant, cataclysmic paradigm shifts you've
had in your own private mind, in your own heart, in your own
thoughts, personally, in your life, with yourself, with your family,
with your friends, with your business, with the audience, with this,
with everything. We forget how far we've come. And just for a second,
you stop and you look down. You realize you're at the top of
the staircase. You're right there thinking anything's possible. Stare one hundred. Anything
is possible. People who have There's many people walking around who may have taken
one step or two steps, or no steps. You cannot go midway or
high up on the staircase and just say, hey, what about World War
two? Apparently Hitler was a real nice guy. You can't do that.
You can't do that because it doesn't work. And what parapolitical researchers forget is
the entire existence of these building blocks of ontological considerations, of considerations of what
is real, epistemological considerations. How do we know what is real? How
can we understand the scope of truthfulness? What does that even mean? Walking
up that staircase in our own private studies answers that for us in very personal,
meaningful ways. So like I say, I can walk into somebody's living
room in this audience, pick a random guy, a random woman, and
we can dive right into stair number seventy two, right into stair number ninety
seven, and they'll be like, Wow, it's incredible. I don't know
if it's true. It could be garbage, but I am prepared to look
at it, and I don't have any investment. I don't have any problem
looking at these issues, and I'm not in the least racist or empty semi
of course, that would be stupid, megally stupid, hugely, hugely stupid.
It doesn't even go on the radar. However, in mainstream society,
there is no staircase disbelief. It doesn't exist. All of that stuff is
untrue, every single last minute of it, and there is a lot of
people walking around who don't even want to take the first step. They don't
want to know. And here's why. If you text take step number one,
Lee Harvey Oswald did not kill JFK. You have to go to step
one hundred. You have to go all the way up to step one hundred
in due course. And deep inside everyone knows that, and they don't want
to take that journey because it's hard. It's hard, it's ugly. Blood
will be spilt, people will be lost, people will disappear, people will
laugh at you, people will take business away from you, people will mock
you, people may even lock you up. So most people they just they
hover the foot over that first stet, you know, when you're just about
to stand on a stair, and they think, you know what if I
take this first step in due course, in the fullness of time, I
might have to go all the way to the top flat Earth. God,
I don't know that I can do that. I don't even know where they're
want to go there. And again I emphasize this point. Every single stare
is a question mark. It's not whether this is the case or not.
That's a very personal decision. We don't need to objectively agree on anything here.
It's a personal journey, a personal staircase. All they are a question
Mark's Flat Earth. There's a lot of big important questions. They are really
really important questions. Anyone who writes that off needs the brain examining. They
need to go back and get the crayons out and start again. You're listening
to the fair kind of radio network, just the facts. Many