1 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,879 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Jashnski, 2 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,839 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:23,839 --> 00:00:27,920 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr LST. 4 00:00:28,199 --> 00:00:32,079 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts as well. Today, 5 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,719 I'm excited to be joined by Edward Habsburg. He is Hungry as ambassador to 6 00:00:35,759 --> 00:00:40,079 the Holy See and the Sovereign Order of Malta. His family reigned in Austria, 7 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,200 Hungary, Germany, Spain and some other places as well. You probably 8 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,439 know that by the name Edward. Thank you so much for joining us. 9 00:00:48,679 --> 00:00:52,399 Emily, thank you very much for having me on your show. So you 10 00:00:52,439 --> 00:00:56,479 are out with a new book, and it's called the Habsburg Way, Seven 11 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,280 Rules for Turbulent Times. I want to talk all about the book before we 12 00:01:00,359 --> 00:01:04,079 dive in. Why don't you just start by giving us a little bit of 13 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,319 history on yourself and maybe a little bit of history on your family for people 14 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:15,599 who aren't familiar. Well, I'm the Hungarian ambassador to the Holy See right 15 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,719 now. I wasn't always a diplomat. I was many different things before I've 16 00:01:19,719 --> 00:01:26,519 written novels. I've produced animated cartoons. At some point, I wrote on 17 00:01:26,599 --> 00:01:32,359 Thomas Aquinas, and I worked for TV. I worked on a TV show, 18 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:37,400 And so you see, I'm not your typical diplomat. In fact, 19 00:01:37,439 --> 00:01:40,480 I think I'm one of the only diplomats are alt the Holy See who has 20 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:46,799 already written a treatment for a zombie movie. Apart from that, I am 21 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:52,680 very happily married since twenty seven years and have six children and the first grandchild 22 00:01:52,879 --> 00:01:59,480 is set to arrive and of May. And yes, I'm a Habsburg from 23 00:01:59,519 --> 00:02:07,319 the Garian branch of the Habsburgs. The Habsburg family ruled Europe for about a 24 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:13,000 large parts of Europe and sometimes the world for about eight hundred years, and 25 00:02:13,879 --> 00:02:17,080 we're about four hundred right now. But over the centuries, of course, 26 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:23,560 there were thousands of Habsburgs that lived, had children and family and died. 27 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:30,479 And yes, and my book is trying to to tell the story of my 28 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,840 family, but not simply a family history, but to take a look at 29 00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:40,759 what were the central values, the central principles of my family, and why 30 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,800 might it be useful to take a look at them in our world of today. 31 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,520 As you sort of looked back on your family's history. With this particular 32 00:02:53,680 --> 00:03:00,719 project as your lens, you're trying to compile rules guidance for life from the 33 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:07,240 all of that background. Is there anything that surprised you? Are there any? 34 00:03:07,319 --> 00:03:10,560 Did you find any lessons maybe you didn't expect to find as you look 35 00:03:10,599 --> 00:03:20,280 back. I think what surprised me most were the many points in common with 36 00:03:20,319 --> 00:03:24,520 the United States. I would have never thought that there could be bridges built 37 00:03:24,599 --> 00:03:31,840 between an old dynasty of Europe and the United States. And I mean, 38 00:03:31,879 --> 00:03:36,879 I wrote this book for readers in the United States, for Sofia Press. 39 00:03:37,919 --> 00:03:42,240 But why going about it? I realized that the basic principle of what the 40 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:47,639 Habsburg Empire and the Holy Roman Empire stood for and what the United States stand 41 00:03:47,719 --> 00:03:54,199 for are very similar. You have a great respect for the lower levels. 42 00:03:54,639 --> 00:04:00,080 The United States are built from the grassroots up from the home, the township, 43 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:05,840 the county, the state, and the federal elements should be less than 44 00:04:05,879 --> 00:04:12,680 that, because you're built from down up. And this sounds exactly like like 45 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,240 the like the definition of how to be a good emperor that Emperor Charles the 46 00:04:17,319 --> 00:04:23,000 fifth gave his son Philip the second. He said to him, if you 47 00:04:23,199 --> 00:04:29,000 rule over several countries. You have to respect their languages, their habits, 48 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:36,120 their rights, their different attitudes, and if you don't do that, you're 49 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:42,000 in a hell of a lot of trouble. And this is what Habsburg Empire 50 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,800 and also the Austrian and Garian Empire that we're built upon, a juggling, 51 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:55,240 are balancing and a respecting of different nationalities under one roof. And that that 52 00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:00,959 surprised me. I was surprised about the many points of contact. I suppose 53 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,800 you don't know that the first governor of Texas was put there by the Spanish 54 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:11,279 Habsburgs, and that I would consider a few states in the United States all 55 00:05:11,439 --> 00:05:17,879 have some territories, so it's some fascinating history, to be sure. And 56 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,439 in fact, you know, maybe this is a question I'm just thinking of. 57 00:05:20,519 --> 00:05:28,439 Actually, are there times you stumble upon new information about the Habsburg history 58 00:05:28,639 --> 00:05:32,240 even now, despite all of your years already of course studying your own background. 59 00:05:33,439 --> 00:05:39,560 Yes, absolutely, I stumble upon it on Twitter. You know, 60 00:05:39,759 --> 00:05:42,639 if you are on Twitter right now and you you would follow me, you 61 00:05:42,639 --> 00:05:46,439 would see that I have a Habsburg World Championship running right now leading up to 62 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,639 the publishing of my book. And it's so interesting. The feedback you get, 63 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:57,199 you know, I throw out there for you know, four Habsburgs per 64 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,639 round, and you can you can vote for two of the two of them 65 00:06:00,079 --> 00:06:02,560 make it to the next round. And then I get feedback in the commons. 66 00:06:02,879 --> 00:06:11,000 And for instance, Charles Cologne who gave told me that the Leopoldina, 67 00:06:11,079 --> 00:06:14,879 who was a Habsburger who went to Brazil and became empress there in the nineteenth 68 00:06:14,959 --> 00:06:20,240 century, and it's a great hero in Brazil nowadays. Leopoldina inspired the foundation 69 00:06:20,319 --> 00:06:27,920 of the so called Leopoldina Foundation, through which the Habsburg emperors pumped millions into 70 00:06:27,959 --> 00:06:32,600 the church in the United States. I had no idea of that, and 71 00:06:32,639 --> 00:06:36,680 I learned that via Twitter from a reaction, so that happens all the time. 72 00:06:39,079 --> 00:06:44,040 I learned. It's a big history, and I'm surprised at what members 73 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:49,480 of my family are finding love out there. And yeah, so that's that's 74 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:54,680 why I enjoy this Twitter contest right now that we have. It's like it's 75 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:59,600 much madness. But with the Habsburg everybody says, what's this much madness that 76 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,839 every he mentions all the time, I've never heard of it is that the 77 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:11,040 NCAA College basketball tournament schools from all over the country compete, and it's a 78 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:18,120 very interesting process because you'll have really you know, low ranked schools making runs 79 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:23,040 at the championship. So it's it's a thing that everyone in the United States 80 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:29,839 goes a little mad about every March. Now I get it. That's several 81 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,319 people wrote that much Madness thing to me, Emily, and I had no 82 00:07:33,399 --> 00:07:36,639 idea what they were talking about. Now I know it, Thank you very 83 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,680 much. It's very funny that you're running this tournament in March, because all 84 00:07:41,759 --> 00:07:45,800 kinds of people run different tournaments in March to play on the March Madness thing. 85 00:07:45,839 --> 00:07:48,079 So you had perfect timing and didn't even realize it. Well, I 86 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,959 had to run it in much because the book comes out in April and in 87 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,000 this tournament is sent to run for about a month. So yeah, I'm 88 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,439 building the hype, but most of all, I'm I'm meeting many, many 89 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,759 people who seem to know and love the Habsburgs. Yeah. I believe that 90 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,160 Twitter is It's an interesting place. You know, it has so much bad 91 00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:13,439 but also so much good. And as we talked about all the bat it's 92 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:18,720 always easy to overlook some of the good. What made you want to get 93 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,360 on Twitter in the first place. How long have you had Twitter? You're 94 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:28,240 a pretty prolific user of it. What do you like about Twitter? This 95 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,279 is a conversation of several hours. Don't please, don't give me a soap 96 00:08:31,679 --> 00:08:37,279 to stand on, but I love Twitter. I see Twitter as something enormously 97 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,480 positive. What I like most about it is that you are always at the 98 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,840 pulse of things happening. When something happens, If something happens, Twitter is 99 00:08:46,879 --> 00:08:50,200 the place where you can follow it most closely when you get the first tremas. 100 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,840 That's one thing what I love about Twitter is that you can interact. 101 00:08:54,919 --> 00:08:58,639 I still I only have fifty eight thousand follow us. I'm still at the 102 00:08:58,759 --> 00:09:03,279 point where I can react to almost everything that people write back, and can 103 00:09:03,399 --> 00:09:07,240 react to direct messages. And I love this because you will only have Twitter 104 00:09:07,279 --> 00:09:11,759 followers if you interact, if you react, if you if you engage in 105 00:09:11,799 --> 00:09:18,000 discussions about what you wrote. And what I also love is that you know 106 00:09:18,039 --> 00:09:20,360 I'm a diplomat. I'm a diplomat and I always try to be nice to 107 00:09:20,399 --> 00:09:26,279 everybody, so most people would usually what I get as a moniker for my 108 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:31,279 for my Twitter account is wholesome. I'm really very, very wholesome all the 109 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,360 time, which is a bit of a of a difficult thing if people say 110 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:41,080 that you're an inbred moron, or those pictures of the Habsburg John which the 111 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:48,840 Americans seem to be absolutely fascinated and and and then then to react in a 112 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,559 good way, and I usually always managed to do so is yes, that's 113 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:58,879 something and there since about I think fourteen years, I took Twitter. When 114 00:09:58,879 --> 00:10:03,159 I became I forgot to say that I was for five years I was a 115 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:09,240 spokesman media responsible of bishop in Austria, of a Catholic bishop. And when 116 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:15,039 I became that, I realized I have to interact with media, and most 117 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:20,159 journalists in Austria were on Twitter. So I took a Twitter account and I 118 00:10:20,159 --> 00:10:24,159 began interacting and I love it. I love it. It's not a very 119 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:30,000 typical way of acting on Twitter. Most other ambassador's post pictures of their meetings 120 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,440 and lots of hashtags or statements of their government. And what I do is 121 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,720 wild and wooly. I you know, some some families, some faith, 122 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,639 some hungary, some Godzilla movies, and people seem to like the mix. 123 00:10:48,639 --> 00:10:54,320 The Washdoto Wahtreet podcast with Chris Murkowski every day, Chris helps unpack the connection 124 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,960 between politics and the economy and how it affects your wild It's time to see 125 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:01,600 the forest through the trees. After the mainstream media's NonStop coverage of the Trump 126 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,639 indictment, his twenty twenty four poles continue to surge. Do Democrats in the 127 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,759 mainstream media actually want Trump to get the nomination just so he would lose? 128 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,039 Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. 129 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,200 Be informed. Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris mccaski 130 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:22,759 on Apples, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts right. And you 131 00:11:22,799 --> 00:11:26,279 know a lot of this book. It's funny you mentioned that people are sending 132 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:33,600 the pictures of you that Americans are obsessed with the abstruct jaw, because the 133 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:39,279 book is so interesting when you look at the lessons that you pull out from 134 00:11:39,279 --> 00:11:46,080 your family's history, talking about marriage, even talking about death, and in 135 00:11:46,159 --> 00:11:54,159 ways that have become almost outmoded in today's hypermodern society. And I guess I 136 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,679 wonder when you're looking back. First of all, I was going to make 137 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:01,960 a joke because I'm an American that is similarly obsessed with the jaw. Um, 138 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:03,919 I guess I wouldn't say obsessed, but I was going to make a 139 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,799 joke about how I find it. It's rather amusing that the book is giving 140 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:13,639 marriage advice from the Habsburgs, because that's you know, going to the jaw 141 00:12:13,159 --> 00:12:18,480 part of the part of the part of the joke, of course, but 142 00:12:22,159 --> 00:12:24,759 you got it all the time, I'm sure. But on that note, 143 00:12:24,639 --> 00:12:31,919 when you're looking at a time period that people today will tarnish as as one 144 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,879 that was um, sexist, misogynistic, or they'll use any word you know 145 00:12:37,919 --> 00:12:45,039 that that says we're basically come past that, we've progressed, advanced past that 146 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:50,039 stage in human society evolved. Um. Was it difficult to write advice drawing 147 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:56,879 on this time period, Um, these sort of tested values like marrying young, 148 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,960 having lots of children, etc. And explain them to a modern audience. 149 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,159 Well, no, of course, because I'm a Habsburg. I also 150 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,559 have the advantage of being the Hungarian ambassador to the Holy See, and you 151 00:13:11,639 --> 00:13:16,120 expect me to be a conservative because I'm the Hungarian ambassador. So you know 152 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:22,039 it's I don't have anything to lose to begin with. No, I think 153 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,840 I mean, you can feel that when you read my book, I suppose 154 00:13:24,879 --> 00:13:31,240 you saw it. I think we're a bit lost. I think humanity has 155 00:13:31,279 --> 00:13:35,879 gone a bit astray. We've lost we've lost touch with our base, where 156 00:13:35,919 --> 00:13:39,279 we come from, what we are. People are not happier than they were 157 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,600 in the past. I believe I stayed that several times in my book. 158 00:13:43,159 --> 00:13:48,360 And I have to say, Michael Knowles said that I redeemed the Sales help 159 00:13:48,519 --> 00:13:52,440 Book, which is very, very funny. I never set out to do 160 00:13:52,519 --> 00:13:56,200 that, but what I what I found. What I found out is that 161 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:05,799 these very you can say, reactionary values, they worked for a reason, 162 00:14:05,639 --> 00:14:11,440 and they led to many, many, many people having normal, happy life, 163 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,679 happy families, a life where they knew where they stood, they knew 164 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:22,399 where up and down was. And we are living in a time where everything 165 00:14:24,039 --> 00:14:33,120 that was right four years ago is already long past Neanderthal Middle Ages. And 166 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,639 this can't be right. I mean, for the last twenty thousand years, 167 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,960 the elders were respected and history was being seen as something important. And suddenly, 168 00:14:45,039 --> 00:14:52,279 since a few years we are the crown of evolution of science of humanity. 169 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:58,039 Humanity was never as fantastic as it is today until in a year when 170 00:14:58,039 --> 00:15:03,720 we will look back and say, how could they have been so incredibly primitive 171 00:15:03,799 --> 00:15:09,600 one year ago? And if you see that, then you realize that perhaps 172 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,799 it was not so wrong the way we did it before. Because this is 173 00:15:13,919 --> 00:15:16,919 total madness we're living. We're living in, as somebody once said, in 174 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:22,399 a wilderness of mirrors, it's it's it's crazy. And that's why I think 175 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,919 that people will sit down the book and put their prejudice aside for a second 176 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,639 and just read and see what I propose. Might just say, well, 177 00:15:31,679 --> 00:15:39,639 that doesn't sound that stupid, but you're right the first reaction of many people 178 00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:43,919 out there. I'm looking forward for the reviews from the German speaking world of 179 00:15:43,919 --> 00:15:48,480 from Europe right now. They're going to be furious, most bold that I 180 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:54,440 praise the HAPs books to the sky and and and also you know America, 181 00:15:54,559 --> 00:16:00,320 America has built on the myth of fighting tyrants and an aristocracy. I think 182 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,720 that's the reason why they always try to send me the weirdest pictures of HAPs 183 00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:08,879 books from the sixteenth century, because that seems to prove the point. Those 184 00:16:08,919 --> 00:16:15,919 people with a huge jaw must have been total, absolute dunderheads, and they 185 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:22,200 weren't. Charles the Fifth before he met the French. The French king wrote 186 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,440 to him and said, by the way, when we meet, it's true 187 00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:29,759 that I have a huge jaw and that my mouth always stands open, but 188 00:16:29,879 --> 00:16:33,960 it doesn't stand open to bite. And he was he was one of the 189 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,559 most intelligent people of his time, Charles the fifth. So just don't just 190 00:16:37,679 --> 00:16:41,799 look at the jaws. And another thing that I also found out while I 191 00:16:41,799 --> 00:16:48,039 wrote this book, several things I found out just to grab the thing by 192 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,440 the jaw, is that the hapsbook jaw is not a result of inbreeding. 193 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:59,159 Oh now, will this will shock quite a lot of people, but coming 194 00:16:59,159 --> 00:17:04,799 on the result and everybody can find out for themselves. It's like, you 195 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:08,559 know, I love to point out to people who say that the Church thought 196 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,839 that the earth was flat in the Middle Ages. I said, you just 197 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:17,680 grabbed Thomas Aquinas, summatiolo gear. You go to the first question, you 198 00:17:17,799 --> 00:17:21,559 open the first question, you go to the third article, and you can 199 00:17:21,559 --> 00:17:25,200 find out for yourself that Thomas Aquinas says that the earth is round in the 200 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,799 Middle Ages the Church. And the same thing goes for the Habsburg jaw. 201 00:17:29,599 --> 00:17:33,119 If you think that it's a result of you know, cross marrying between the 202 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,279 Spanish and the Austrian Habsburgs, as most people probably think. Then just go 203 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:45,359 and look at the portraits of Emperor Maximilian, who lived seventy years before the 204 00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:48,599 reading or the inter marrying began, and he and all his children have that 205 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:56,279 already. So this is something that came from a Polish princess that married into 206 00:17:56,279 --> 00:18:03,240 the family two generations before, before all the intermarrying began. So while the 207 00:18:03,279 --> 00:18:08,759 intermarrying may have you know, prolonged, it never caused it. So there's 208 00:18:08,759 --> 00:18:15,559 another mission. And you blamed the Poles. No no, no, no, 209 00:18:15,839 --> 00:18:18,279 no no, I'm not even sure if she's Polish, but her name 210 00:18:18,319 --> 00:18:22,440 is tim Burguese of something, and she was the grandmother of Maximilian, and 211 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,119 they say it comes from her. And the worst part is, perhaps book 212 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:32,319 George jeans are still in our in our DNA, and they might pop out 213 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,799 again one day if we marry the wrong person. Right. Oh, it's 214 00:18:34,839 --> 00:18:40,319 recessive, I see, um, you know, that's that's all very interesting. 215 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,839 It's true that in America we have a healthy sort of disdain or prejudice 216 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,599 against aristocracy, especially from that era. But this book is to your point 217 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:55,680 about Michael's comment, very much self help very much about personal decisions and choice, 218 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,240 and obviously that bleeds into a societal critique as well, that we could 219 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,920 all be better served if we, for instance, prioritized marriage, prioritized children, 220 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,359 prioritized faith. I want to ask why you started with marriage. We 221 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,000 talk about marriage a lot on the show. We talk about the importance of 222 00:19:11,039 --> 00:19:15,160 marriage a lot on the show. From your perspective, as you're looking back 223 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:21,119 at the lessons of your family and of the society, they oversaw why I 224 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,960 start with marriage? Why is it the building block that you lay, that 225 00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:29,440 sort of cornerstone you lay first and work from for the rest of the book. 226 00:19:30,279 --> 00:19:34,039 That's a very very intelligent question. You noticed that, right, Well, 227 00:19:34,079 --> 00:19:37,519 I uh, my instinct, of course would have been to begin with 228 00:19:37,599 --> 00:19:45,200 Catholic, but I don't only write for Catholic readers. A B. Marriage 229 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,960 is with my faith the strongest experience of my life. And see if I 230 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,680 would make a polem among historians and about European everybody, what are the HAPs 231 00:19:53,720 --> 00:20:00,599 books known for except for that jaw I would I would probably hear the world 232 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,440 marriage politics. So I thought, to understand the absperts, you have to 233 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:10,680 begin with a topic of marriage. And why did they do marriage politics. 234 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:17,319 And my point in the book is that they had no choice when they when 235 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:22,319 they When the first habsperg Count Rudolph in twelve seventy three, became a member 236 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,039 of the Holy Roman Empire, he didn't become emperor of you know, of 237 00:20:27,079 --> 00:20:33,279 a nation that could greedily attack other nations and enlarge itself, but of an 238 00:20:33,319 --> 00:20:42,000 incredibly complex mix of countries, princes, laws and other things that had to 239 00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:52,319 be constantly balanced. It's like chess on throw three D and you cannot go 240 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,440 hard on that. You have to be a diplomat. You have to be 241 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,200 international, you have to work on alliances, and the best way to do 242 00:20:59,279 --> 00:21:04,519 so without shedding blood is always by marriage. So even the first Habsburg, 243 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:11,119 as an old Roman empire, already massively made peace and made alliances by marriage, 244 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,839 and that was just a normal way, and that shaped our DNA for 245 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,279 centuries. And that's why I think that it's absolutely right to begin with that 246 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:23,000 point. And then of course you see that two chapters on the Habsburgs and 247 00:21:23,039 --> 00:21:29,680 their faith and Catholic faith in the Habsburg family, because I believe that the 248 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,079 Habsburgs as a Catholic family still has to be written and I sort of laid 249 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,960 the groundwork for that with these two chapters. And I had very strong feelings 250 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:44,759 about about the kind of Catholicism that different Habsburgs lived or didn't live. As 251 00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:48,519 you can tell when you read the book, you tell us more about that 252 00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:51,799 if you if you can flash out that point, it's an interesting one and 253 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,599 definitely a feature of the book. But when you say that, especially for 254 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,279 nine Catholics, what do you mean? Yes, Well, at the beginning 255 00:21:59,279 --> 00:22:03,440 of the chapter on Habsburgs and their faith, I sort of I asked, 256 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,119 I ask pardon of my non Catholic readers for my enthusiasm for some of the 257 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:15,039 measures that Hapsburg emperors took, which sometimes were rather harsh to non Catholics in 258 00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:22,880 their in their empire apology accepted, Yes, But what what what my feeling 259 00:22:23,079 --> 00:22:26,000 is is that we have grown used to, perhaps not during the States, 260 00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:30,519 but in Europe. We've grown used to the idea that freedom of religion means 261 00:22:32,079 --> 00:22:37,559 freedom freedom of freedom from religion, and that basically religion should not appear in 262 00:22:37,599 --> 00:22:41,839 the public space. And the politician is a good politician if he's totally neutral 263 00:22:42,279 --> 00:22:47,359 in his in his opinions and his faith and in everything. If best that 264 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,519 you don't see his faith, you don't see what he believes in, because 265 00:22:49,559 --> 00:22:53,279 that's a private thing. And the Hapsburg system was, of course totally different. 266 00:22:53,759 --> 00:23:00,319 Perhapsburgs lived their faith, and the court followed, and the public nation 267 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,720 followed, and you expected to know what your emperor stood for. And my 268 00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:08,319 theory is that if I know what somebody's faith is as the political leader, 269 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,680 then I can know what I can hold him accountable to, and then I 270 00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:17,839 know. This is my sort of that's the joker. The joker point is 271 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,359 that if somebody believes in God, then he believes that he will one day 272 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,920 be accountable in front of the judgment of God for what he's doing. And 273 00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:30,359 perhaps you will be less tempted to cut corners, to be corrupt, and 274 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,960 to do horrible things. At least that's my opinion. Somebody who really lives 275 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,519 their faith will think twice before they do something bad. At least that's my 276 00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:44,359 experience, and the has live that in my opinion to the full. I 277 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,319 mean, I give very strong examples. Leopold the First, who was the 278 00:23:48,599 --> 00:24:00,759 Baroque Habsburg Catholic emperor. The whole year consisted of procession, pilgrimages, Holy 279 00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:06,240 Masters, and so much that the French ambassador at some point complains in the 280 00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:11,519 letter homes thing, uh, from from Palm Sunday to end of Easter, 281 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:18,279 I've been hundred hours on my knees. And we ambassadors to the Holy seek 282 00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:22,759 and sometimes feel with him because we spend lots of time on our knees as 283 00:24:22,759 --> 00:24:25,680 ambassadors, because we go to Mass all the times, it's part of our 284 00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:30,079 job. But one hundred hours never, So you see, this was this 285 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,279 was very intense. And then afterwards you had a time wherehaps books were more 286 00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:37,799 privately Catholic, which perhaps is closer to the idea nowadays that you should sort 287 00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:42,960 of treat your faith as a private, private matter and don't bother other people 288 00:24:44,039 --> 00:24:48,680 with it. And then there were a few HAPs books who were extremely warbly 289 00:24:48,759 --> 00:24:53,680 Catholics, you know, sympathizing with Protestant ideas. And then you had other 290 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,839 members of the family who stepped forward and carried the Catholic banner. In that 291 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:06,720 time. It's an try to be exciting moving history, and of course for 292 00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:10,960 me, when I write such a book, it's also my own identity that 293 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,480 I'm writing about, and it confirms me in what I live with my family. 294 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,599 M Now you're also ambassador to the Holy See, as you mentioned, 295 00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:26,799 and I love asking Catholics right now about the revival of Latin mass, of 296 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:33,440 more orthodox forms of Catholicism, certainly in parts of the States. Here it's 297 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,599 kind of hard to put a number on what's happening, but really all over 298 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:44,480 the world in a sense, do you find now that there's something about the 299 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:51,920 hyper modern, high tech world we live in that is pushing people to seek 300 00:25:52,160 --> 00:26:00,440 more ancient more We could just be simple and say older, simpler form of 301 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,759 religion that haven't been you know, made casual by madernity, that are that 302 00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:11,000 are formal and rooted in something deeper. Are you seeing that happen as well? 303 00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:15,839 Very much, very much so. I have a theory on this. 304 00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:23,319 My theory is that with the arrival of mobile phones, um, something happened. 305 00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:30,599 And what happened is that you have constant entertainment from the early morning until 306 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:36,880 the late evening. You don't have a quiet moment. You wait for for 307 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,319 for the metro and you look on your phone. You switch on your phone 308 00:26:41,319 --> 00:26:45,480 before you switch on the light in your room. You switch off your phone 309 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,680 after you switched off the light in your room. And in in between your 310 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:55,839 you're entertained constantly, and this is like a rubber band that is always overstretched. 311 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,880 I don't think that the human mind can can can live for a longer 312 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,720 time. So what are the only places where you can't be on your phone 313 00:27:04,759 --> 00:27:08,640 anymore? You're even on your phone when you're when you're when you're skiing, 314 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,559 you know, in between, when you stop, or when you're, when 315 00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:15,039 you're whenever you are, you can always be on your phone. But you 316 00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:21,319 can't be on your phone you're in liturgy. And I think that people are 317 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:29,079 tending towards more respectful, more beautiful, slower, and more traditional forms of 318 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,680 liturgy because it's one of the few places where they can where they can stop 319 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,839 and think. When when can you stop and think? That little thing is 320 00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:41,119 always there. It's always there and you always have to react to it. 321 00:27:41,319 --> 00:27:45,480 And you find a great part of your identity on Twitter, on Instagram, 322 00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:51,960 on TikTok, and it's entertaining you. And entertainment will get better and better 323 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,920 and better and better, more intrusive, more into your brain and people. 324 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:03,279 For the last forty thousand years, we never had that human beings had long 325 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,240 phases where they just couldn't do anything when you walked from A to B, 326 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,960 when you hiked, there were so many moments where you couldn't read, You 327 00:28:12,039 --> 00:28:17,599 couldn't you could just think, there is no time to think anymore. But 328 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,799 in liturgy, your soul comes to peace, and that's why I think that 329 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,680 there is a great first for that. I think in the young and con 330 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,200 generation. I agree with you Emily that the numbers may not even be that 331 00:28:30,319 --> 00:28:37,519 great, but they are very strong. People who find that kind of peace 332 00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:41,640 in liturgy will not go away anymore and drop it for something more superficial. 333 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:47,119 That's what I'm observing. Yeah, I know that's so interesting, and especially 334 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,960 from a Hungarian perspective, and without getting into Hungarian politics, which I'm far 335 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:56,319 from an expert, and you do have new regulations on architecture, for instance, 336 00:28:56,319 --> 00:29:02,359 you have the scrutiny cafes, and Orbon talks a lot about truth and 337 00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:07,680 beauty and those those sort of first principles. So on that note, I 338 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:14,799 want to ask if if you think as the world is groping and searching for 339 00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:18,480 those first principles, when it's getting harder for people to understand, maybe that 340 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,880 that is what they're looking for. They're looking for some of the rules you 341 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,799 lay out in this book, or some of the guidance you lay out in 342 00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:27,279 this book. You know, they would be better served if they were married, 343 00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:33,839 with children, and had faith, and had a good sort of understanding, 344 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,400 or a comfort with death, all of those different things. Do you 345 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:42,680 feel as though the Holy See understands these these challenges or understands, for instance, 346 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:48,480 why people are flocking to things like Latin mass and are looking for something 347 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,440 perhaps more ancient. That was quite a few questions that you threw out. 348 00:29:53,519 --> 00:29:59,720 Now, the first thing you said, I am very impressed that, you 349 00:29:59,759 --> 00:30:03,400 know, is the thing about architecture in Hungary. I've never nobody ever asked 350 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:12,440 me that the Hungarian government is, for instance, rebuilding a classical palay on 351 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,559 the Castle Hill that used to belong to my great grandfather. They're putting a 352 00:30:17,559 --> 00:30:21,960 ministry in there in the traditional style with modern materials, of course, And 353 00:30:22,039 --> 00:30:25,480 you're right, You're right, Hungary is going back to the roots in many 354 00:30:25,519 --> 00:30:29,079 things there is. I think there's two reasons for that. One of them 355 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:34,039 is that, of course, the years of communism stole some of our roots, 356 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,720 many of our roots. But these years also may explain why the Hungarians 357 00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:45,920 are very strong on traditional values, on sovereignty, on faith, on history, 358 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,240 because we had to fight for these things, while in the West people 359 00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:56,599 got bored with these things from the sixties on and put everything in question. 360 00:30:56,279 --> 00:31:00,440 In all parts of the world, you had to fight for them and you 361 00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:06,440 had to defend your values, your traditional values. So that is one explanation. 362 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:14,960 The other is surely that Hungary was first occupied by the Ottomans by Muslim 363 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:18,920 rule for one hundred and fifty years in the sixteenth and seventeenth century, then 364 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,960 in Hungary's opinion, by the Habsburgs for another two hundred years, and then 365 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:32,279 by the Communists, and when they had finally left and Hungary was free and 366 00:31:32,359 --> 00:31:38,480 sovereign after nineteen nineteen eighty nine, there is a strong feeling of let other 367 00:31:38,519 --> 00:31:42,720 people from outside of Hungary not tell us what we should do, and that 368 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:48,359 is that sometimes makes life in the European Union a bit difficult because Hungarian sort 369 00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:52,640 of put up there, how you say, put up the heckles now when 370 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,039 people from outside tell them what to do. But on the other hand, 371 00:31:57,079 --> 00:32:05,559 it makes Hungarian population immune against the latest fan that comes along because we know 372 00:32:05,599 --> 00:32:08,200 what we believe in. We know where we stand and we defend this. 373 00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:12,880 So yes, and as for the Holy See, in the Pope is coming 374 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,119 to Hungry for the second time now within two years, to Hungary. Perhaps 375 00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:22,920 he even he likes Hungry more than most journalists. Thing, yes, that's 376 00:32:23,079 --> 00:32:29,079 part of my job as the bestler to the Holy See. Now you I 377 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:34,000 mentioned this just a second ago, but you you end on death, and 378 00:32:34,039 --> 00:32:37,240 I find that so interesting, so important. What did you learn from the 379 00:32:37,279 --> 00:32:42,160 Habsburgs or what do you think other people can learn from the Habsburg's approach to 380 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,759 death? Well, most of us, I think half of the world population 381 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:52,319 was watching the funeral of Queen Elizabeth last last year, and everybody was impressed 382 00:32:52,319 --> 00:32:55,920 by that. And one of the last images you saw of her was her 383 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:02,240 coffin disappearing into the floor in in that castle. And while this happened, 384 00:33:02,319 --> 00:33:07,599 slowly being lowered into the lower ground, her her titles were being read. 385 00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:14,039 And that is a crucial difference to what the Habsburgs did, because of course 386 00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:19,720 they were Catholics, and very Baroque Catholics. So they made a whole whole 387 00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:23,759 ritual around It's called a knocking ritual. And I experienced this twice at the 388 00:33:23,799 --> 00:33:28,240 funeral of the last Empress of Austria, Zeita, when I was a young 389 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,480 man, and then again when Otto, our head of family, was buried 390 00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:37,720 years later, and it goes, it goes like this. The procession with 391 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,400 the with the coffin arrives at the so called capucinakoft It's it's a crypt under 392 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,799 the Capusan church in Vienna, in the center town center, and the Capusans 393 00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:52,480 have looked after the Habsburg dead for centuries now. And the procession arrives, 394 00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:55,599 and the master of ceremony knocks on the door, and the voice of a 395 00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:01,200 Capusian from inside says, who is out there? And he says, I 396 00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:06,119 give you a title, Franz Joseph, Emperor of Austria, King of Hungary, 397 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:12,840 Bohemia, Lodomeria, Croatia, and then he enuminates old titles, and 398 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,320 when he's finished, the voice from inside says, we don't know him. 399 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,159 And then he knocks again. He says, who goes there? And then 400 00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:24,280 he lists all the things the emperor has done and all the achievements in his 401 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:29,519 life, and again the voice says, we don't know him, and then 402 00:34:29,519 --> 00:34:34,320 he knocks the third time, and then he says Franz Joseph, a poor 403 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,360 sinner, and then the door opens. Now this is a ritual, and 404 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:45,400 rituals are sort of quaint and historical, but they say a lot about The 405 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:50,599 Habsburgs lived with death in front of their eyes all their lives. They knew 406 00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:57,280 that the hour of their death not only decided upon how they would spend eternity, 407 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,039 because the Habsburgs believe that there is an eternal judgment, meant that that 408 00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:04,280 you can go to heaven, but you don't go to heaven automatically, like 409 00:35:04,559 --> 00:35:07,760 now there's most people seem to think that you just need to die to go 410 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:14,119 to heaven, and that the way I live the way I die, besides 411 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,840 over how I'm going to spend eternity. So they took this very very serious. 412 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,639 And therefore, and a third thing they knew was that their death was 413 00:35:23,679 --> 00:35:30,000 being watched because people took their cue from how their emperor died. They knew 414 00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:32,199 that a report about how they died would be sent out and the people would 415 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:38,519 know about this. So they lived and mostly died very consciously, and it 416 00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:44,760 was in our in our DNA for centuries. One very touching story that I 417 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:50,000 write in my book is when one of the daughters of Empress Maria Theresia in 418 00:35:50,679 --> 00:35:59,559 let's say seventeen fifty, and we had smallpox came through. And when smallpox 419 00:35:59,679 --> 00:36:02,679 arrived at the court, three things happened. Either you didn't get it, 420 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,679 or if you get it, you either died, or you were totally disfigured 421 00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:10,480 for life as a woman. You weren't as beautiful anymore. Your face was 422 00:36:10,599 --> 00:36:15,639 changed. And so that was in any way was terrible. And smallpox arrived 423 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:22,599 in Vienna court and one of the small child, one of the young daughters 424 00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:27,199 of Marie Theresia, got it. And her father, who was a more 425 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,519 liberal minded man. He was a freemason and not as baroccoly Catholic as Marie 426 00:36:32,599 --> 00:36:37,880 Tersia was, and he writes in a letter deeply touched. He writes, 427 00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:45,360 when my daughter learned that she had smallpox, she at once asked for a 428 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:52,320 priest and gave a life confession. That was her first reaction to that, 429 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:59,440 and she died a few days later. So they had their priorities right. 430 00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:02,880 And that's why while I put them die well at the last point, I 431 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,679 also write at the beginning of that chapter, I could have put it the 432 00:37:06,679 --> 00:37:10,000 first point, because it shaped the entire thinking of the Habsburgs very strongly. 433 00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:15,880 And we live in a time where death doesn't exist either. It exists in 434 00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:20,360 you know, in violence. Death that we can see oil is put away 435 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,320 in hospitals, very far away. And yes, that was different for the 436 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:29,639 last forty thousand years, and for Christians it was different because most Christians, 437 00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:32,079 who might only have lived forty years, were very aware that they could die 438 00:37:32,119 --> 00:37:38,480 tomorrow and that they have to meet God there. That is so true and 439 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:44,000 beautifully said. The book is called The Habsburg Way. It's out on April 440 00:37:44,159 --> 00:37:47,840 eighteenth. Edward Habsburg, thank you so much for joining us. You've been 441 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,159 listening. It was a joy speaking to you, and I have the impression 442 00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:57,199 that we can we can think on similar lines in many in many of the 443 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,000 topics we spoke about. Indeed, indeed, to everyone, make sure that 444 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,719 book. Check it out. It's available on April eighteenth. Once again, 445 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,079 I'm Emilijrashnski, culture editor here at the Federalist. You've been listening to another 446 00:38:07,199 --> 00:38:10,599 edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. We'll be back soon with more. Until 447 00:38:10,639 --> 00:38:21,480 then, be lovers of freedom and anxious to the fray right wrong