WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:09.599 Hey, welcome to React Round Up, the podcast where we keep you updated 2 00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:14.720 on all things React related. This show is sponsored by Raygun and produced by 3 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:18.760 Top and Devs and Onvoids. Top and Deves is very great Top and Deves, 4 00:00:18.760 --> 00:00:22.760 so get top and pay and recognition while working on interesting problems and making 5 00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:28.559 meaningful community contributions. An Onvoid provides remote design and software development services on a 6 00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:33.280 task basis, so clients only pay when tasks are delivered and approved. In 7 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:40.479 today's episode, we will talk about an ecosystem of UI libraries which are available 8 00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:46.280 for all the main popular frameworks nowadays, including React of course, but also 9 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:51.479 Angular and View, and we will talk directly with the founder of the company 10 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:57.439 behind those libraries. We are talking about Prime Tech and the Prime React and 11 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:06.040 Prime Prime View other such prime prefixed projects. My name is Lucas Spaganini. 12 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:10.560 I'm your host in the podcast. Joining me in today's episode is Chris Ruin, 13 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:18.040 Hello everybody, and our special guest and founder of Prime Tech shot Tai 14 00:01:18.439 --> 00:01:23.079 GVG. Hello, Hello guys, and thank you. Thank you for having 15 00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:27.159 me. Yes, it's a pleasure to have you Shatai. So let's just 16 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:34.799 jump straight to it. Could you please provide us with a brief introduction of 17 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:38.680 what prime Tech is and what it does as a company, and then we 18 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:47.000 can just jump straight to prime React and how that particular library could be interesting 19 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:52.840 for React developers. Yeah, sure, so prime Tech. I'm the founder 20 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:57.200 of prime Tech. Back back in two thousand and eight, I started as 21 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:02.319 a hobby project called prime Faces. It's a Java services, a UI library. 22 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:07.960 And after ten years in two thousand, let's say seventeen and eighteen, 23 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:14.439 we've started with React versions. So after React we became popular and we also 24 00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:20.879 have other versions. But the companies we can describe it as a UI compound 25 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:24.680 libry vendor. At some point we have done some of course consulting and training 26 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:30.120 for our to make a living, but lately, for the last couple of 27 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:36.719 years we have solely focused on a UI compound development and at these times after 28 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:43.560 so we are like close to fifteen years of experience in this and we are 29 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:46.520 These libraries are open source and free, teos under a mighty license more than 30 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:54.039 close to eighty and idy components from enterprise level requirements like a complex data table. 31 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:59.319 We also provide simple compouds like a Navatar and simple button, so not 32 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:06.319 just for a single suite of requirements. We try to cover as much as 33 00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:12.599 we can. And it's an interesting story because we have reached like fifteen people 34 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:16.159 right now and the core products are free and open source, you know open 35 00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:23.479 source. We have also gone through those stages and there we were traveled having 36 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:29.960 trouble, maybe trying to figure out how to turn this popular open source UI 37 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:36.479 projects and make it our main business so that we can also work on it 38 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:40.840 during the daytime when the light is on instead of just nighttime, because during 39 00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:44.960 the day we had to do a lot of different stuff and at night we 40 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:49.520 had to work on open source. But things turn out to be very well, 41 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:53.240 and we tried different things, made some mistakes. At some point we 42 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:58.319 try to sell the documentation even believe it or not, for ten dollars and 43 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:02.400 some people bought it just support us. And I never asked for sponsorship for 44 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:09.080 the prime projects because although I know that it's well at many projects, maybe 45 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:14.639 nonprofit projects also, although we do it on our NP sponsor a couple of 46 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:19.519 source projects, you know, it may some enterprise companies may look at it 47 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:24.720 like red fleg sometimes because because we're a company and when we say okay, 48 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:30.839 we regarded sponsorship and because I told to them in conferences in meetings, they 49 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:34.800 kind of shy away from those kind of so it's kind of a redfleg because 50 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:40.319 they want to invest in your project and then they want continuity, right, 51 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:45.279 So we never asked for that sponsorship. Try to find out like selling the 52 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:50.879 documentation, things like that working out on other jebs, and since twenty fifteen, 53 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:55.839 GIF kind of figured that out how to monetize it, maybe we can 54 00:04:55.879 --> 00:05:00.639 discuss it as well. In the context of React, we are basically offering 55 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:04.279 some commercial leads on top of the open source core, and that helped us 56 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:10.639 to sponsor the open source core as well. And that's the only thing we 57 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:15.439 do. We develop UI compounds every day all day. That's awesome. So 58 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:21.560 you really went from consulting work up until a point where you are now able 59 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:27.439 to sustain fifteen people. Is that what you said? Yeah, that's amazing. 60 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:34.680 That's amazing fifteen people being sustained by a project which also provides a very 61 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:45.920 comprehensive free version and with a very forgiving license, right, so MIT is 62 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:49.000 going to let people do whatever they want with them. So they are definitely 63 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:56.240 several interesting things that we can talk about from a business perspective for anyone listening 64 00:05:56.279 --> 00:06:01.399 that might be interested in selling doing a This is what people are currently calling 65 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:06.759 micro sauce, right, So microsauce being the concept that you can create something 66 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:15.240 small which can be served as a not necessarily as a standalone like it or 67 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:19.639 it sometimes depends on other things to make sense for it to be sold. 68 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:26.839 But it's a it's a small a smaller, smaller ish product, right, 69 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:31.399 Like we know that in practice, there's nothing small about everything that you guys 70 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:36.319 maintain. This is a huge amount of work, like a huge library, 71 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:42.120 but in the sense that you are selling a library of components, that's something 72 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:46.360 that people can easily start. So to get to the point where you guys 73 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:50.240 are, that's ears right. But to start a library and have a go 74 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:59.319 of selling this library with a premium paid version, that is something that theoretically 75 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:03.920 doesn't have a very high bar for people to get started. So there is 76 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:12.240 growing interest from developers to learn from such types of businesses because it's really interesting, 77 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:15.720 Like there are a lot of folks out there that really care about accessibility, 78 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:21.120 about performance, about so many things that if you're just doing components for 79 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:28.079 a specific project, it's hard to justify putting that amount of effort into making 80 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:32.279 the components super polished. But if you're thinking about it as a product on 81 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:36.959 its own that's going to be so to many other companies, then that is 82 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:43.920 a path for you to justify spending time in such details. And there are 83 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:47.279 definitely people out there that love doing that kind of stuff, So we're definitely 84 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:54.839 going to go through that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah it's worked. I 85 00:07:54.879 --> 00:08:00.279 mean it's still it's a journey where trying new things, try to increase new 86 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:05.800 and sometimes failed try and Pillot and I have some interesting things to tell about 87 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:07.920 prime Wreck as well, because it's kind of different than the other libraries. 88 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:15.519 The track record of prime Reck is a bit different. We can talk about 89 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:20.160 it in detail as well. Okay, so let's start with what are the 90 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:28.160 things that people can use for free and what are the things that are behind 91 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:33.080 a pay wall. So we we had a payball in the past, like 92 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:37.759 the style customization, which was which turned out to be a bad idea because 93 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:45.679 in so like you had this, we had something called the sus Team where 94 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:50.919 you can purchase that was a visual editator as well, so that the idea 95 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:56.080 was okay, but it really damaged to growth. So that the core is 96 00:08:56.080 --> 00:09:00.399 open source and free. But in order to customize the styling deeply you had 97 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:03.799 to that was a paywall, so we made that open source and now introducing 98 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:09.639 an ether version as well. So I cannot say a payball because I don't 99 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:13.879 think that maybe we should introduce a payball to the users. It should like 100 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:18.480 be an optional add on't so they should buy it if they really like it, 101 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:22.240 not because they have to write. So right now we have the open 102 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:26.120 source core, all these libraries, especially on the React as well, the 103 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:31.919 eighty components maybe ninety, I am not sure. Probably I'm not sure, 104 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.600 So let's say eighty components from tables to tabs and everything. And we also 105 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:41.039 provide you know, the team force templates where you can go purchase me sometimes 106 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:45.759 the templates, application templates, admin templates, mostly the dashboards. We also 107 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:48.919 provide a couple of times. We have a design team that creates and the 108 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:54.399 design and our teams implemented, so they're like on our store, available in 109 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:58.799 our store. We have our own small team forest, let's say, and 110 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:05.159 fig ma uik It is also a commercial, so not everyone needs to fig 111 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.720 majuik it, but probably the companies who need it. They can afford it 112 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.840 because they have a design team. So the uik it, the Pigma file 113 00:10:13.879 --> 00:10:18.080 of the components is a commercial on the commercial side. And also we have 114 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:24.480 something called prime blocks. Probably you know about the Tailent UI. You know 115 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:28.519 those Talent is the open source core with the utilities, and they provide this 116 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:33.480 nice looking ready to use copy paste ready blocks. They're not really tempets, 117 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:37.600 but you just copy and paste. We also have something like that and that's 118 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.279 also paid add on and what else. We also had the pro professional support 119 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:46.679 because many enterprise companies they just want the contact where they can instead of GIT 120 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:52.600 up email, they can just contact us using a private issue tracker. So 121 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:56.799 that's four things I can say, but a couple of more are on the 122 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:03.240 horizon, like Figma to team generation plug in is on arizing any visual them 123 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:09.320 editor, and also the prime blocks. The knee version is also maybe and 124 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:13.360 we are also planning to come up with some uibuilder's kind of tool So mostly 125 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:18.639 tooling, let's say, add ons on top of the core. But of 126 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:24.320 course there's no payball and people can get what they need from the library. 127 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:31.919 Gotcha, gotcha? So that exposes a really big challenge, right because if 128 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:37.120 the core functionalities are there. And I can also say that you guys are 129 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:41.519 very generous in the way that you present your products because if you go to 130 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:50.080 prime react website, for example, there isn't too many call to actions telling 131 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:54.480 me that there is a paid that there are paid add ons to it. 132 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:58.159 Right, it just really looks as if it's something free and there is a 133 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:05.240 banner of especially now talking about the spring cell that you have or the templates. 134 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:11.080 But besides that, the amount of call to actions for purchasing things is 135 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:20.120 very very minimal. So I imagine that this also increases the challenge. Right, 136 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:24.559 So you're trying to make something that is very friendly for those that just 137 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:26.679 want to try out the free version. Well, at the same time, 138 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:31.759 you want people to know that there are paid ad ons because you need to 139 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:37.000 support fifteen people. Yeah, if you go to the website, there's no 140 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:43.159 banners or you know, sponsor us. We want to make it clean. 141 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:46.360 So that's one of the reasons. And our first preference is the growth, 142 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:52.159 So we need to have a big user base for the project. And then 143 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.720 because sooner or later, once they're installed to their project and start playing with 144 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:03.279 it and seeing the value at some point they will realize that they may need 145 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:07.159 some pay that and so the highest priority are the you know, adoption and 146 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:13.279 growth and pamanization with the components rather than monetization. That's something I learned through 147 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:16.960 the years. Once you have a user base that you know, you're the 148 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:22.799 community at some point, I mean, have even some users stay that purchased 149 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:28.120 some stuff from our store without the need of using it. They just want 150 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.919 to support us. And of course there are some people who want the refund. 151 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:35.200 Of course, you know, there are different kinds of people, but 152 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:39.159 you know, there's that's the idea. We want the clean user interface mostly 153 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:45.000 and they should you know, we don't want to put it in there, 154 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:50.279 you know, make it the highlight, just just there. But of course 155 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:54.840 there's always room for improvement, trying new things, moving things around in the 156 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:58.480 UI different. But we don't have any people for sales. That's interesting. 157 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:05.519 Out of that fifteen people, one person is for custom relations you know, 158 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:11.200 mailing, invoicing. Another fourteen people are for developers and designers. So the 159 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:15.279 product kind of sells itself because it's the power of open source. That's why 160 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:22.720 we love what we love awesome awesome. So just to recap from the React 161 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:26.480 developers point of view that might want to use this library. So the main 162 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:35.039 issues that this library solves are the speed at which developers can have well written, 163 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:43.759 performance and accessible components in their US right. So you want a date 164 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.519 picker, there you have it. You don't need to create it from scratch. 165 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.279 You want like there. There are just so many of them I can 166 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:56.600 even list them here as an example. There are just too many, too 167 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:01.200 many components. But yeah, basically, most the way you can think of 168 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:05.440 in terms of design UI elements you're going to find in Prime React and the 169 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:13.799 other Prime libraries for other frameworks. So I wonder how this compares to other 170 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:20.559 UI libraries out there, Like why would someone that is just starting a project 171 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:22.639 and they decided to use a UI library? So this is not the question 172 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:26.879 anymore. The question is which UI library to use? Why would they use 173 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:33.039 Prime? Yeah? In general, So to begin with Prime reacts cases different. 174 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:37.039 So we had the Prime phases. It became the most popular one for 175 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:41.519 its own context, Java, Java, Web Jobaba development. We had the 176 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:48.279 Prime ENGI after the official first part angler Mattel, it came the second most 177 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:52.879 popular. Prime View is now the hardest UI library for View Jazz, and 178 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:58.039 so when we turn to the prime React, we've just realized that we made 179 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:02.519 the mistake along the way. Some thing didn't click with the community. So 180 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.200 people that started after us got more popular. So we like a couple of 181 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:11.279 months before we went back to the driving board saying okay, we're doing something 182 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:15.879 wrong, and we've decided to go back to the driving board come up with 183 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:22.519 a new plan, which started. The implementations started yesterday actually. So one 184 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.200 of the issues with the prime React was this old teaming which is using SAS, 185 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:30.120 and you had to compile it and team switching functionality. You had to 186 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:36.600 suite some CSS since we were there were some stuff legas, stuff from two 187 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:40.720 thousands, two thousand and eight and tens because when we started there were no 188 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:45.399 CSS variables. Weren't even know sas. So if you do it for a 189 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:49.559 long time, you face with the technical debt. Luckily Prime View had that 190 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:52.720 sort of doubt. And this is the turn of Prime Engine Prime React. 191 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:59.200 So probably in June we will have a new reboot called Mono Repo. We 192 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:03.080 are moving to a mon what There will be a new package at PRIMARYC slash 193 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:07.799 Core. So the main difference between PRIMARYC and the main difference that will be 194 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.400 because the newer version will have it, but the idea is different. So, 195 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.400 as I mentioned, I'm doing this for fifteen years and I've met all 196 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:21.039 sorts of users. So there's some there's a I call it the three types 197 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:26.599 of people mostly. So some users prefer they're not really good with design, 198 00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:30.119 they just but they want to get something done. They just pick it off 199 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.440 the shelf, like the dayticker you mentioned, and it looks good and it 200 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:38.640 does Jeb right. And there's another type of people. They want full customization. 201 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:42.440 They want full control, they want to feel like they can change everything 202 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:49.039 easily. And there's a third group they don't like they don't like UI compounds 203 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:56.079 and they create everything from spash themselves. And even we try to get some 204 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:02.000 people from that clan. Let's say, right to our land, because it 205 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:06.079 really spiks up, because I mean, maybe you've used some third party library, 206 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:08.640 right, and because when you import it, when you MPM install it, 207 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:15.480 you get their problems and bugs and their issues, the maintainer's issues and 208 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.519 things like that. You get all the problems with it as well, not 209 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.720 just the features. So some people who got burnt by it, they maybe 210 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:26.359 they had a bad experience, so they try. From that point on they 211 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:29.799 create their own stuff. But they're not that many, I would say, 212 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:33.759 but probably some corporates with their own design systems, they go they run. 213 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:37.200 So what we did is that, okay, there's no single solution, right, 214 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:42.519 so we created this idea called we have two modes style mode and unstyled 215 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:47.240 mode. So Primaryact also has it. It's not as polished as the other 216 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:51.119 versions of it, but it will be. So the style mode will be 217 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:57.160 this nice looking API with design tokens, Figure integration, a nice API with 218 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:03.960 different presets like you can which from material to bootstep because bootstep like designs, 219 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:07.039 we have our own designs said, so that you can get that style, 220 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:12.200 get that component with a nice looking UI, and you can customize it easily. 221 00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:17.680 That's the style mode. If you compare with the recent trends in the 222 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:22.400 React especially because React and tailment really fits really very well because when you compare 223 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:26.480 with the Angler review, there's no built in styling in React right, so 224 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:32.240 and the tailment really fixes that issue perfectly. It's like a perfect combination so 225 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:37.240 that you can create components that doesn't need an external styling. You can use 226 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:42.000 Talment with it. So that's why when we realize that tailment based UI libri 227 00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:47.160 is for React got extremely popular, so that gave it us idea, so 228 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:51.480 we created this unstard mode. In unstard mode, we do not render any 229 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:56.160 CSS class. Usually components have like drop towers, let's call select. Usually 230 00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:00.000 you can when you open the door with the developer tools, you see like 231 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:04.440 key desk, select, p select, header, PA, select option classes 232 00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:08.200 like that right, which you need to know you need to customize. In 233 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:12.799 that case, we remove them. We don't render any class and we get 234 00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:19.759 tailent classes from an object we call it PT. That's called the pass through. 235 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:26.680 Pass Through lets you access the component internals. So components are like off 236 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:30.519 the shelf black boxes, right, they gave you call them like select and 237 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:33.039 it gives you select. But in the end, internally it has many different 238 00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:37.599 dom elements like the panel, the portal, options, the filters and everything. 239 00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:42.480 We provide access to these internals using the pass through properties. And the 240 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:47.599 pastor is like a Javasco object. It has like header, option, panel, 241 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:51.920 overlay, shadow, things like that, and it gives you the ability 242 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:57.880 to pass tail and classes. So we created the same style with tail went 243 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.720 as well. Which means that if you get that two people one purpose that 244 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:07.839 you know, start more than teaming, and if they're heavily using tail wind, 245 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:12.720 now you can use tail vint to style the entire prim rect library as 246 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:17.119 well, which is great because it will really fit well within the rest of 247 00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:19.920 your application. You don't need to learn any API, you can just use 248 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:25.960 tailings and prime rec provides it. I'm not sure if there's another library that 249 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:33.160 can do both style and unstalled. Plus you get all the accessibility features, 250 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:38.079 a huge community and everything as well on top of prim so it's quite different 251 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:44.400 from what people The scope is kind of bigger, but it's the ideas on 252 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:48.839 flexibility and customizations that's really really interesting. I think I think I got the 253 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.680 takeover for Lucas here for a bit. I'm not sure where I went, 254 00:21:52.160 --> 00:22:00.160 but yeah, that's that's it. It's been amazing to me how tail and 255 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:03.680 has has expanded as a library, and really anybody who makes an integration with 256 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:10.279 them seems to get some of that kind of that love. Yeah, that's 257 00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:15.240 that's that's quite interesting. I really like the that that kind of the option 258 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:21.640 that you give because I think a lot of other UI components. Yeah, 259 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:25.759 they don't offer that. It's sometimes you get like they'll give you like only 260 00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:30.000 like one part, perhaps like the accessibility or the performance, but they say, 261 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:32.759 yeah, you have to do all the styling right or the others are 262 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:36.759 very opinionated with styling, and then they say it's very you know, it 263 00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:42.640 makes it very difficult to add your own styles. Yeah, exactly. I 264 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:47.440 mean, look at the competition and even our user base. Okay, well 265 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:51.359 I do an announcement that okay, now you can style the compounds with tailment, 266 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.200 guys, and you don't want to do all this work yourself, so 267 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:57.759 that our team has great at these presets. To give you an example, 268 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:03.279 and our team went nuts and styled everything twice with two different presets. One 269 00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:08.279 is with the different look and field. So we have two presets for the 270 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:14.960 tailment version because we don't want everyone to style themselves. But as you mentioned, 271 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.359 Chris, there's these when we announce it, some people in our community 272 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:22.480 say, okay, tailent rocks and I we use it, we love it. 273 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:25.480 And there are some people they say, okay, we don't we use 274 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:27.720 talement. We don't want to use it. We don't like that approach with 275 00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:33.440 because these classes become really long and things like that, and then we don't 276 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:37.799 want to lose anyone. We want to offer different style and it's mostly the 277 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:41.480 styling. I mean, you know, the React area, they provide accessibility 278 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.160 and there's a headless approach, but still you have to do a lot of 279 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:47.920 things. I mean, it's like we are trying to find the best of 280 00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:51.319 both first, you know, if there's only material or the libraries in angler 281 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:56.319 reacting view. But this masterial is like design system, why we need to 282 00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:00.519 based on it. I mean prime reac is kind of the best of furs 283 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.680 and after years of experience, we tried to come up with different ideas so 284 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:10.839 that people can pick their combination. Okay, start mode with tailwind on start 285 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:15.680 mode without tailment and things like that. You know. So that's what makes 286 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:21.359 it different because in react ecosystem, what you see is that they're either opinionated, 287 00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:25.799 they're either tailwinds, they're either not they're either primitives and things like that. 288 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:30.000 Hopefully Prime React with the recent version, we will be finally picked up 289 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:34.680 by the community and hopefully people hear more about prime react because it really worked 290 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:40.720 for other communities and it is the time of React prime react and we are 291 00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:45.440 really excited about it. Three three developers will start working on a new version 292 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.559 of Prime React soon. We'll see very cool, very cool. So lucas 293 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:55.720 we were we were just talking about how they're they're offering a super flexible way 294 00:24:55.880 --> 00:25:00.440 with you can take the tailwind sort of presets, or you can just say 295 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:03.720 I just want the components. I'll style them myself. And I think it's 296 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:08.200 quite a wise decision because you yeah, you're really you're opening your library to 297 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:14.319 any type of developer. Yeah, I really like that approach. Yeah, 298 00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:19.119 I'm making it as ergonomic as possible so that nobody has a reason not to 299 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:23.680 try it, right. Yeah, it's it's a tremendous amount of work though, 300 00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:26.960 because scope is larger. I mean, if I can do a tailvent 301 00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:33.160 Ui library focused, I mean just maybe Avatar and selects and things like that. 302 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:36.920 If you check out Headless, you are just a couple of but it's 303 00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:41.480 popular, you know, but you know, the scope is larger, the 304 00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:48.240 work is harder, but it's more rewarding because we can we can pro you 305 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:52.559 know, it will be a wider audience for us, even the corporates with 306 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:57.119 design systems. I mean, we have many people who are tasked with creating 307 00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:03.799 their own libraries for their companies because they have their own design system and they're 308 00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:08.960 now using the prime reac and primary and nonstaffed mode, and they are creating 309 00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:15.920 rappers. Let's say instead of prime select, it's like my select that my 310 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:19.680 is the organization, the name, and they just wrap it and they provide 311 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:25.039 inject their own styling and they get accessibility out of the bucks and they can 312 00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:30.200 make the you know, their management happy because they don't need to write a 313 00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:40.640 data table from scratch. Awesome and shut out. Let's see how many business 314 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:48.079 lessons we can give to people that want to create libraries and have a very 315 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:53.519 flexible, free plan while at the same time being able to pay their bills. 316 00:26:53.680 --> 00:27:02.160 Right, Let's not consider uy libraries because we don't want more competitors for 317 00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:08.559 you Jesus side. But let's just say someone is creating a utility library. 318 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:14.920 For example, I think a library that is really interesting is our EXDB. 319 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:18.960 Not sure if you guys ever heard of it, but the idea is they 320 00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:26.720 used rxgs, which exposes lots of reactive extensions for JavaScript. This is what 321 00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:33.119 our XBS means, reactive extensions for JavaScript. So they created a bunch of 322 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:41.440 adapters between local state and RXGS. So if you're using RXDB, what it 323 00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:52.240 provides you is a very easy to use database rapper for local state, so 324 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:57.599 it creates a rapper for INDEXDB and also creates a rapper to automatically pull in 325 00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:03.680 data from your or remote resources. So, for example, let's say that 326 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.839 you have you're creating a CRM. So a CRM is the kind of thing 327 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:12.519 that you have so much data and there's so much that you want to do 328 00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:18.200 with this data that perhaps it doesn't make sense to treat it as a normal 329 00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:22.880 regular rest API where everything that you need to do you have to ask the 330 00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:29.319 back end. So instead, maybe you really want to just querry the back 331 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:34.440 end to have the latest refreshed data and perhaps have a web socket connection to 332 00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:38.559 it. But what you really want is for the data to be locally so 333 00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:41.839 that you can manipulate it in the front end. So I'm just giving an 334 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:48.039 example of a very specific library that as we can see, there are very 335 00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:52.759 there are lots of companies that might be interested in that functionality and it's not 336 00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:59.079 UI related, right, so there are lots of room for people that want 337 00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:03.400 to create libraries and sell them you don't necessarily need to create libraries that are 338 00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:11.599 specific to UI components. There are other utilities, definitely, definitely. And 339 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:17.200 what I'd like to know from your experience doing that as a business owner is 340 00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:25.640 how would you recommend someone that wants to start a Microsoft business from scratch building 341 00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:30.839 a library and eventually being able to make a living out of it. Yeah, 342 00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.200 I mean, it's it's so maybe that In my case, when I 343 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.359 started this, it was like a hobby project. I had no idea of 344 00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:41.960 making turning to a business. And at some point they the clients, tried 345 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:48.079 to contact us US for some paid development and consulting trends, and I just 346 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.319 realized, okay, maybe there's something in this. But if I I mean 347 00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.559 lately, the stuff we do in the future, we are trying to, 348 00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:02.720 you know, on our land a UI landscape. We trying to decide if 349 00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:07.160 that can be profitable, if this feature can be turned it to let's say 350 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.720 a tool support maybe for example, we because you provide APIs and if tooling 351 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:18.160 is the interesting idea, because when you provide an API, you provide these 352 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:23.680 features and at some point the develop experience may need some enhancements, and that's 353 00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:30.240 at that point that tooling, because with tooling with like the microcess, because 354 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:34.480 you know, instead of one time, my suggestion would be that it should 355 00:30:34.519 --> 00:30:38.359 be a recurring revenue, right because you can maybe some amount, you can 356 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:45.559 sell five licenses or let's say five invoices, but there's no guarantee that you 357 00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:49.400 can get it in the next month, so that you cannot rely on this 358 00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:56.720 business leave your job. So it should better be a recurring thing. That's 359 00:30:56.039 --> 00:31:03.279 what our experience the street as well. So if that like a tooling chain, 360 00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:07.440 if that can be developed for that library, for that utility, that 361 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.200 would be great. And if you if you see some examples. Of course 362 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:18.440 my many of my experiences on the UI utilities might be different, but utilities 363 00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:23.680 are just like that RXTB. As you mentioned, utilities are great for different 364 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:32.880 integration modules. Different extended utilities will be great. And my suggestion will be, 365 00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:38.440 of course that any So what we also did was some long term versions, 366 00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:41.839 like you know, the bigger corpors do it as well. So if 367 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:47.640 you have that utility, but many corporates cannot upgrade every time, so they 368 00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:52.400 usually wait for six months a year. They want the long term support versions. 369 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:56.960 Because we also provide the LTS versions and they are kind of paid add 370 00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:00.559 ons as well, so that utility, you create new stuff, maybe you 371 00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:06.079 break some stuff, and that you can still provide the long term support versions 372 00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:10.480 in the run time, and the corporates and medium sized companies will definitely will 373 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:15.400 go on that rout and they can continuous to provide payments every year, every 374 00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:22.599 month on that version, because unlike the startups and freelancers, they cannot jump 375 00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:27.000 to the newer version as well as possible. So I would say tooling some 376 00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:31.160 support to older versions of that you tilted library, that would be great, 377 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:38.839 and plugging like integration with other environments like optional paid add ons. And I 378 00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:45.119 would never suggest the payball because it's really you know, it doesn't it doesn't 379 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:50.160 sound good, and people don't like payballs initially. They just make sure that 380 00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:53.559 they adopt your library and make sure they are happy with the core functionality so 381 00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:59.759 that you can start offering some paid at on services, integrations, extra features, 382 00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:04.799 long term support, and you name it. But of course it depends 383 00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:10.480 on the context and different UI is different back end services like authentication. For 384 00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:15.640 example, you're doing authentication, you created ten different modules for different services, 385 00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:21.559 different data integrations. Because I know a startup, what does it They provide 386 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:29.079 two integration modules is free and for data integration and eight other integrations are eight 387 00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:34.680 and things like that, so different features and so on. It's kind of 388 00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:37.960 fun. Try to monetize it, and if you succeed, it's really fun. 389 00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:42.720 If you fail, you tried local alternatives. And what about the fear 390 00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:46.880 that people have of first imprections. How much do you think that this is 391 00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:52.079 relevant, because I don't want to ignore first impressions. I think they are 392 00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:55.480 relevant. If somebody tries your library and then have they have a bad experience, 393 00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:02.680 they might try it again some time afterwards, but they might never try 394 00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:08.840 it again, yea forever. It's really really important because in our case, 395 00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:14.320 okay, they they people usually evaluate libraries right, They eliate primary act, 396 00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:16.960 they do it installed, they put a couple of compounds, they abit competition 397 00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:22.840 and if if they if they face any issue during setups, you know they 398 00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:29.000 do not get any response. So first impressions are really vital, and if 399 00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:32.599 you lose them, it's really hard to bring them back. Maybe they need 400 00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:37.559 you need to wait for their other project. And if they're the ex is 401 00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:42.280 quite good on their previous project, it's really hard, but it's challenging. 402 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:45.320 We have done it a couple of times in the past that we had some 403 00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:51.719 bad impressions initially, but we change the develop experience entirely, but it takes 404 00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:54.599 time. As I mentioned, you need to go back to the dragon board 405 00:34:54.960 --> 00:35:01.039 you started the flow because lately we didn't are not promoting primark as much as 406 00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:06.280 were we were in the past. We were doing in the past because lately 407 00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:12.519 we have updated the showcase, all the documentation, teaming and everything, which 408 00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:15.039 is not even live yet actually, so we have some cool stuff that we 409 00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:21.559 didn't bring live. So that's why we are kind of just like you mentioned 410 00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.960 the person, if we just promoted now, the users will come in and 411 00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:29.280 just Okay, this is cool, but my preference will is better. So 412 00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:34.599 right now we're holding some of these features as well. And also I would 413 00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:38.599 suggest for open source tolpers if they want growth, they need to pay special 414 00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:44.719 attention to their if they're using discord or forums where they try to gether community 415 00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:47.320 build up a community, they need some extra attention to the new comers, 416 00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:52.039 the new members because they're if they just have a problem initially during setup, 417 00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:55.880 they will leave and problem never come back. So that they did. Those 418 00:35:55.960 --> 00:36:02.199 kind of users need some special attention. But yeah, and the develop experience 419 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:07.039 if you use it now, will you suggest that because open sources really from 420 00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:14.760 year to years, so you like it, you suggested your colleague and your 421 00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:17.239 friend, your developer friend, Okay, I use this library school, right 422 00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:22.599 and things like that. Yeah, the olope experience is our focus. So 423 00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:25.559 that's why we stopped doing features. You just realize, even if we had 424 00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:30.239 some virtual scrolling frozen columns, it is not affecting our growth. Let's just 425 00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:36.920 improve the showcase, the documentation, tooling, ID plugins, and then because 426 00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:40.639 we can create features anytime, let's focus on the developed experience. Yeah, 427 00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:45.679 that does make a lot of sense. It's not just about supporting tons of 428 00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:49.599 components, it's about the way that you use them. Just like any company. 429 00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:55.840 There are there are many monster sauce out there in the sense that they 430 00:36:55.880 --> 00:37:02.000 do everything, but at the same time it's just so terrible the experience. 431 00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:07.519 There are a few, for example CRMs that they just attempt to do everything 432 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:13.920 in the world, but when you try to use it, and that's the 433 00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:16.280 selling point, right, like you can do everything there, but when they 434 00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:22.280 try when you try to use them, you most frequently run into a not 435 00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:27.920 so great user experience, So I think this is a similar case. It's 436 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:32.360 best if you have less things, but they are polished enough that people are 437 00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:36.960 going to use them and they're going to enjoy using it. Otherwise, if 438 00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.800 you just put too many features and they're not polished, then at the end 439 00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:44.760 of the day, you don't really have anything. Yeah, exactly, that's 440 00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:49.199 what we realized and went back to the driving board, as I mentioned, 441 00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:53.559 And now you're coming back, Copley gotcham So would you say that, looking 442 00:37:53.639 --> 00:38:00.199 back, you would rather wait a little longer to launch, but make sure 443 00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:07.440 that the version one is very what's the word that they use, They're lovable, 444 00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:12.199 right. People even say that the MVP is the odeal. Now you 445 00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:16.199 need to have a minimum lovable product. Would you say that this is true 446 00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:22.880 or because there are also lots of people that say, if you really, 447 00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:27.280 if you feel proud of what you're publishing, then you took too long to 448 00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:34.000 launch. So we have two very very different views on when to launch a 449 00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:39.000 product. Yeah. On our site, the UI library development never ends, 450 00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:45.800 so you cannot say prime React is done. You can never say it because 451 00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:50.559 it started in twenty seventeen and what is done. I mean, because there 452 00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:53.920 will all basically a new future, a new component and new something. So 453 00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:59.719 rewriting our teaming for a view version, and now it's coming to reck as 454 00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:05.079 well. And at some point that's a major jump between version three and four. 455 00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:09.559 And then we realized that we are adding some other features that were not 456 00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:14.000 in the scope of that version, because that version was supposed to be the 457 00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:17.840 new teaming, the flexible teaming with Figma integration song And when I check out 458 00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:22.280 our roadmap, I've seen stuff like that can be done in the version four 459 00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:27.639 point one version four point two, and it was supposed to be launched in 460 00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:32.800 March, but it was launched this week, so two months late. But 461 00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:38.119 it would have been delayed more like two more months maybe, So I in 462 00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:40.280 a team meeting, I said, okay, guys, if we try to 463 00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:45.480 accomplish all these it will be like end of year and we cannot get it 464 00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:51.559 out of the bucks. So exactly, I'm more like an MVP guy interative 465 00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:55.000 guy, because these libraries are huge and we always try to come up with 466 00:39:55.079 --> 00:40:00.599 something working. We can probably for the primary act version. Next version, 467 00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:05.599 we will create maybe ten sets of compost like taps, inputs, accordions, 468 00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:10.159 dialogues, essentials, let's say essential set of UI components, and then for 469 00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:15.639 every week we will try to come up with a new component and tail integradition, 470 00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:21.320 integration accessible to don Because it will be we will never release it in 471 00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:27.079 time and there is no complete it will never be the perfect as you want 472 00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:30.079 it. That's another lesson that we learn. If you try to make it 473 00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:35.079 perfect, perfect, and the time flies by, and it will never be 474 00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:40.199 perfect anyway until the people start using it providing feedback, you polish it. 475 00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:45.840 So I'm more like on the MVP side of the things, shut Eye and 476 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:51.639 Chris, I think we should start wrapping up. We're already at forty two 477 00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:55.000 minutes of core content. But before I do that, I would like to 478 00:40:55.159 --> 00:41:01.199 ask, just to catch all questions, is there anything that you believe I 479 00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:06.719 should have asked that you think it's really relevant for the audience of the show, 480 00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:12.280 But perhaps I haven't touched upon yet. I'm not sure. I mean, 481 00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:17.159 yeah, I think the best question was how prime react was different from 482 00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:22.239 other libraries, because then we compete with view. We compete with maybe one 483 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:27.159 or two libraries with Angler. We als only compete with Angular material, which 484 00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:30.760 is first party but in React, I mean, there are many libraries out 485 00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:35.400 there, I mean, which one to compete against? If I can tell 486 00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:38.760 you five very good libraries. I mean, so that question was really nice. 487 00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:45.840 But again prime React ideology, the idea is kind of different. And 488 00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:52.320 the common question I get is that how React compond development is different than Angler, 489 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.559 Review and other libraries. I think React and views the easiest. Angler 490 00:41:55.639 --> 00:42:00.840 is a bit tricky to implement components, and it's quite a pleasure to work 491 00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:06.760 with a reacting view. And other than that that monetization. Because we have 492 00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:13.599 an interesting story how to turn this open source the thing you love into the 493 00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:19.400 thing you make a livit making a living that we also discuss it and other 494 00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:24.679 data. I cannot really think of maybe other things, but I'm really excited 495 00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:29.280 to show you the next version. Maybe we can do a small, maybe 496 00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:32.880 quick lightning. Just give us a couple of months after summer, we will 497 00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.480 launch the new prem React and maybe hopefully you will try it in your next 498 00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:42.400 project. In your next project, definitely I will be waiting for that. 499 00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:46.679 You are very welcome to get back to the show and tell us all about 500 00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:52.960 the changes that you made to make the library more easy to use. For 501 00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:58.000 React developers. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, we'll see how it goes. 502 00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:02.920 All right, let's do some promos, Chris, would you like to get 503 00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:10.239 started? Yeah? Sure, I'll post something post in a while, which 504 00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:15.639 is my my you to me. I don't know if I can, I'll 505 00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:20.159 post at the link. Yeah. So I have a few courses, not 506 00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:25.039 all React but just stuff. My course has come from experiences I've had as 507 00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:30.519 a full stack dev and like where I got really stuck and couldn't find anything. 508 00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:36.280 And yeah, I also have a policy because I know there's probably a 509 00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:39.679 lot of students listening or you know, people who don't have the money to 510 00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:45.320 spend on courses. I if you email me, I will set you up 511 00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:47.920 with a with a free coupon code for the course. So but yeah, 512 00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:51.760 check them out. I think there's I think they're interesting. Of course, 513 00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:57.400 otherwise I wouldn't make them. But yeah, awesome, okay shout I What 514 00:43:57.519 --> 00:44:01.360 about you? What would you like to promote? Yeah? We currently I 515 00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:07.119 think we have a discount at our prime store fifty percent off on everything. 516 00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:09.880 If you need a nice looking template, some prime blocks, you need a 517 00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:16.440 pigma. They're really quite affordable these days. So if you should, I 518 00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:20.639 type it or should I. I mean, if you go to the primaryact 519 00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:23.760 website, you can see that there's a top part notification at primereact dot org 520 00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:30.920 and it's fifty percent off on anything, and if you like to support open 521 00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:36.199 source, you're welcome. But also we have some free templates as well if 522 00:44:36.199 --> 00:44:40.639 you like to check some before trying the premium stuff. Awesome. I just 523 00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:47.920 sent a link to primaryact dot org in the notes in the comment section and 524 00:44:49.159 --> 00:44:54.920 also a link for Chris on you to me so that everyone can also check 525 00:44:54.960 --> 00:45:00.360 that out. On my end, I don't have any special promos, just 526 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:06.159 going to mention the companies producing the show. Again, so there are many 527 00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:10.639 other podcasts produced by top endevs. If you're interested in other software development subjects, 528 00:45:12.119 --> 00:45:20.159 there are shows about angular view career. There are many many other podcasts 529 00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:23.920 available in the top and devs universe, so definitely check that out if you're 530 00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:30.800 interested in hearing about other subjects while you're working out, driving whatever. And 531 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:37.239 also again Void, so if you are a company or you know a company 532 00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:44.840 that is looking to either augment their staff or just create an entire system from 533 00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:50.159 scratch, then definitely check out Void dot com u N Void dot com because 534 00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:55.320 they have a very interesting business model which allows clients to only pay after tests 535 00:45:55.320 --> 00:46:00.880 that are delivered and approved. So I think this is going to be for 536 00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:05.159 me in this episode. Thank you so much for sticking to the end. 537 00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:09.079 I hope this was valuable to you in your journey as a React developer and 538 00:46:09.159 --> 00:46:15.199 also with all the super valuable in my opinion, business insights from Shatai about 539 00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:21.199 how he built this business and made it lucrative and made it work in its 540 00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:28.199 own without requiring consulting work or any other sources of income. So I think 541 00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:31.280 this is highly valuable for lots of developers. I hope it was valuable to 542 00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:35.320 you, and I will see you in the next episode.