We're back with another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Jasinski,
culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show
at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr LST.
Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts into the premium version of
our website as well. Today I am here. I'm joined by Michelle Blair
and her attorney, Vernadette Broyles, who is the President and General council over
at the Child and Parental Rights Campaign, Inc. We're going to dive into
a tragic and unfathomable and unfathomable story based on a lawsuit that Michelle and Vernadette
have filed actually just this week as we're taping the podcast. First, before
we dig in to that, I want to welcome both of you and thank
you for joining the show so much. This is not an easy thing to
talk about, so we very much appreciate your time. Oh, thanks for
happiness. Yes, Emily, thank you so much. I really appreciate you
letting my voice be heard. Absolutely absolutely, And so let me start by
reading from the press release with some background on the allegations in the lawsuit.
That was filed in Virginia this week, so that listeners are up to speed
on the story and have a clear picture of the facts, because this is
an incredibly complicated case and it is just again, as I said, I'll
use the word again, unfathomable on so many different levels. It's one that
some people might already have heard from, although I imagine there are more details
in the lawsuit that we'll get into. People who are familiar with the Push
for Sages law in Virginia may be familiar with the contours of the case,
but let's go to the press release here. On Tuesday, August twenty two,
twenty twenty three, the Child and Parental Rights Campaign, Inc. Filed
a lawsuit on behalf of Michelle Blair against the Appomatox County School Board, Superintendent
Annette Bennett, school Counselor Dina Olsen, school Counselor Averreville, and public defender
Anissa Khan. Missus Blair's parental rights were violated when school officials withheld information about
her fourteen year old daughters asserted a male gender identity, an ongoing harassment,
and the public defender interfered with missus Blair's right to custody. In August twenty
twenty one, Missus Blair's daughter Sage, began identifying as a boy at Appomattox
County High School. Sage had a history of mental health issues and early childhood
trauma, which missus Blair had shared with the school. Yet, school administrators
actively hid sage suddenly identifying as a boy from her parents and did not inform
them that Sage was being verbally, physically, and sexually assaulted by her male
classmates because of it. Despite this, the school still encouraged Sage to use
the boy's bathroom, where the bullying and abuse continued. Because of the harassment,
Sage based, she ran away from home and ultimately was drugged, raped,
and trafficked. After days of abuse, Sage was found in Maryland and
assigned a public defender, Anissa Khan, who falsely convinced the judge that her
parents were abusive and deprived Sage's mother of custody. Sage was placed in a
male juvenile services facility, where she was further sexually assaulted. Sage ran away
from this facility and once again fell into the hands of sex traffickers, who
transported her to Texas, where she was rescued by law enforcement and reunited with
her parents. That's from the press release again, and believe it or not,
the details as we dive into them will be I think even more shocking
as they continue to get flushed out. Michelle, My first question is for
you. You are Sage's grandmother, correct, You have a guardianship over Sage?
Is that the way? And tell us maybe just a little bit about
the history there. It's in the lawsuit, but tell us about that.
Yeah, my son, Sage's daddy passed away when he was twenty seven and
two thousand and five, and Sage was shuffled through a few different foster homes
until I finally was able to get custody, and it took almost a year.
So Sage came home a little shy of two years old, and she
was our pride and joy, the apple of my eye, the sun rose
and set and me and my husband, we we just loved her. We
loved her and we loved every minute with her. Do you want a Sage
doing today? Well, you know, we're hopeful for brighter tomorrow. But
Sage does have a lifetime sentence of complex PTSD. And it's interesting you say
that because when Sage had had a trauma as a little one, as a
baby, I read a book while she was gone called The Body Keeps Score.
Because see, when I adopted Sage, I thought that, you know,
I could love her through anything that she had been through as a baby.
And apparently the body keeps score. So when puberty came, her puberty
hit really hard. So she did have a rough time with puberty. And
as soon as she hit like twelve, I started taking her for for counseling
because I could see her mental health was declining. And going into that school
year, you had alerted appomatics, the school system apomatics I did. I
did, and that's why that's why I to this day, I don't understand
how this even happened because the forms you fill out when your child enter school.
I let them know. I let them know she had trauma, she
had mental health issues. She had been impatient for five days a month before,
so I I just expected them to, you know, read read the
fib and let me know if anything, you know, changed, or if
they saw her acting different. And something that strikes me about this story,
and these are likes, is how it condemns two states. It's not just
it is not just Virginia, it's also Maryland and wherever Sage turned as a
fourteen year old girl, she was let down by the system over and over
and over again, according to these allegations, turning to adults for help and
adults allegedly failing over and over again. And that's stunning. And I want
to ask you, Ernadette, what this sort of constitutional questions on the table
are constitutional and related to the law in Maryland and Virginia. What is in
this lawsuit? Where have these states actually legally appear to Where do they appear
to have failed on the legal questions? Well, from I'll talk to about
the legal questions, but first from a human right standpoint, they failed because
the adults pursued their own ideological agenda as opposed to the best interests of the
child. You know, the entire legal system is supposed to be set up
on a state standard of always at all levels, at with at the juvenile
court level and the family court level, at the superior court level, even
in federal court, it is always supposed to be pursuing the best interests of
the child. And that did not happen here. These adults pursue their own
ideological agenda. Now, from a legal, you know, constitutional standpoint,
they clearly violated the fundamental parental right that is protected by the Fourteenth Amendment by
the due process clause. So the Fourteenth Amendment has been held by the Supreme
Court the United States for about one hundred years now to protect certain very basic
fundamental rights. So the oldest of which is the right to raise your child,
to be able to raise your child accorinty to your own ideas for up
upbringing, to direct the education of your child, the directory religious training in
your child, and the medical and mental health care of the child. That
has been that case. Law has been developed over the course of time.
But it is now quite true that's a excuse me, a fundamental constitutional right.
And in each step of the way, the school, the school officials,
and this Anissa con the public defender, clearly violated that fundamental constitution right.
I want to get into the story of Anissa Khn and Michelle. I'll
turn this one to you first. Anissa Khan is the public defender in Maryland,
sage ends up being traffic, runs away from home, and appomatics ends
up in Washington, DC. Is sexually assaulted, ends up with a Maryland
public defender in Baltimore, sort of discovered I think by law enforcement in Baltimore
and as assigned a public defender. Their allegations of the public defender fabricates stories
of abuse on your behalf, and Sage ends up in squeezed in this horrific
system, is being housed with boys again in the process, and Anissa Khan,
according to these allegations, coaches Sage in some just gobsmacking, mind numbing
ways. Tell us about the story of Sage's interactions with an Anissa Khan as
you understand them, sure, well. What I would like to mention is
Sage was actually rescued nine days later in Maryland in the house of a sex
offender who is in jail right now. Why Sage was brought to jail,
I don't understand, because Sage has never been delinquent. She has always been
a very innocent child. So so when I couldn't even see her, me
and my husband couldn't see her at the jail and we were told we had
to go to a hearing at four o'clock, that's kind of where it all
started. I don't even know why Anissa Khan. I mean, she's never
even talked to me. Sage comes up on a big zooms screen and I
just I say, Sage, I love you, and I start crying and
she says, I love you too, Nanna. And that's when Anissa an
shut down the hearing and said that I was I hope's misgendering her. Oh,
and then she's remained in the jail. And when we came back to
the other here hearing the following week because we had to come back, did
you know the judge ended that hearing? I asked the judge, I said,
why is she in a jail? Can we please get her out of
the out of jail. She's done nothing wrong. Well, he agreed,
but unfortunately Anissa Khan convinced him that we needed to make sure she went to
a facility, and all boys facilities. She ended up with Irish teenage boys.
I don't know how that happened. I don't know, but it was
absolutely horrible. It was horrible, and in that there are echoes of what
allegedly happened to Sage in the Appomattox County school system, which is and this
is the big question on the table when they decided to keep this information from
you. They were allowing Sage to use a restroom with boys, and Sage
said that Sage had incredibly difficult experiences sexual experiences in the restroom. Can you
tell us a little bit more about that, well, Sage, Sage was
bullied horribly and they kept me in the dark. She was harassed, sexually
harassed, she was verbally harassed. The boys pushed her around. I do
not know that an actual rape occurred, and maybe Sage will someday remember if
there was or wasn't, But the bottom line is she was horribly bullied on
the bus with X rated disgusting insults, to the point where she was so
afraid she was threatened that they would that they would kill her, and that
they knew where she lived and that they knew where her family lives. So,
in essence, Sage ran away, not just to save herself, but
she thought she was saving us. Is where it ended up. Because they
didn't they didn't feel it was necessary to tell me. They kind of didn't
understand trauma or I don't know how this all happened. And Michelle, can
you tell us a little bit about how Sage and I know that this comes
from mental health difficulties in the years prior to twenty twenty one. As this
all begins unfolding, But how Sage came to be diagnosed, at least by
one counselor, with gender dysphoria, How Sage came to start identifying as a
boy. I think basically what we know at this point is from Sage in
the school. Because you were you were kept out of the loop. But
what do we know about how that unfolded back in twenty twenty one, Well,
hall unfolded was Sage went from being goth and then she wanted to be
Emo. So I you know, I've been a volunteer cost Us since twenty
fifteen with kids, So to me, kids need to figure out who they
are, and their puberty is hard. And I remember my puberberty, you
know, I was, I was a tomboy and we go through different stages.
So I was just letting. I was just going along with it.
And I bought her boy style clothes so she could be Emo. And she
wanted blue hair, so my husband colored her hair, and so she was
going to school as Emo as far as we knew, which was fine.
There was never any problem until she let them know she was going by a
boy gender and a boy's name, and they just had to fail me.
Yeah, they just had to tell me, and I could have got a
handle on it just right. And that when I was reading through the lawsuit,
that was among the allegations. That is one of the ones that stands
out to me is essentially you have somebody who works at the school stopping Sage
in a hallway asking whether she identifies as a boy or girl, then just
jumping to well, you can use the boys bathroom. Am I remembering that
sort of set up? Oh you are, Yeah, this counselor the second
day of school, they absolutely that was what tit. Sage told me.
Well, Nana, I asked, and they and the counselor lady told me
to use the boys bathroom because the girls are uncomfortable. Hey, y'all,
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This is interesting from a legal standpoint as well, because schools are entrusted with
students well being in safety when they're in their facilities, and to jump from
for a counselor to jump from, how do you identify too, it's okay
to use the boy's bathroom and then not tell any of this to the parents
and then on top of it, not do further due diligence. There's this
history, this entire history of mental health concerns prior to that. Legally,
this is we're talking about miss Olson. This is allegation against miss Olson.
What does the liability look like there, Well, there's there's going to be
clear liability. So people under need to understand, as school officials need to
understand that endorsing a child's discordant gender identity and an identity of themselves that is
in direct conflict with by their biologic reality is a very It's a serious personal
and mental health situation and decision to be made, and it is one that
school officials are not qualified, they're not competent, and they're not authorized to
make. Those are the types to decisions that only parents are authorized to make,
because they don't if it's not about a broader you know, school policy,
curriculum issue. This is a very personal, individualized mental health decision for
a child. Schools are not competent authorized to make that decision, so legally
they clearly they overstep their bounds and stepped into the purview of whatever. All
of your audience instinctively recognizes, that's our decision to make for our child.
What makes it so wrenching in this situation is that it's what's set off a
whole series of actions that deeply traumatize this child. And that's what people need
to get. It's not a benign intervention to drive a wedge between parents and
their children just because their child expresses a discordant gender identity. Is actually placing
these children in farms way because that's a time when they need their parents the
most. And if they don't have the guidance and the assistance and the care
that their parents alone are able to bring to bear the situation, the most
horrific things can begin to happen in a child's life because now they're isolated and
they're off on their own to try to figure out a very troubling situation for
them. So these officials own it, and Democrats in California right now are
debating a bill that would prevent what they referred to as quote, forced outing
of children to their parents. So this is the flip side of the coin,
which says, you know, I would argue laughably that, I mean,
it's not really funny, but that you the only way to keep students
safe if they are just secretly transitioning or experienced experiencing dysporia that their parents do
not support. So in their language, they would say they have anti transparents
something like that, the only way to keep them safe is to let them
keep this to school and to prevent this from going to the parents, to
keep the secret from the parents. So vernadette, what is the legal where
does that in Virginia? What does the law look like? And then legally,
as the other side prepares a case that I imagine might hit on that
theme, where does that come into play. Well, that entire mindset is
completely accurate. Think about it. It presumes that children are not to be
protected by their parents. It presumes, as a matter of law by the
state that children are to be protected. All children are protected from their parents.
It basically presumes that parents are a threat to their own children, not
the state, not the government, but that parents are presumptively a threat to
their children. The day we have that is law in our in our country,
we don't have a country anymore, very very seriously. It also,
and so by extension, if you presume that parents that of course, historically,
naturally speaking, have always our entire Western civilization has always had the presumption
recognized by the Supreme Court United States that parents are naturally the guardians of their
children, and they are naturally the ones who are going to have the best
interests of their children at heart above anybody else, and so therefore, presumptively
they must be making we have the right to make the decisions for their children.
That's what our case law has been, that's what our cultural normative has
been. If we reverse that through some horrific set of laws, then we're
saying they now creeps, that children are the creatures of the state, that
they are the mere creatures of the state. And that is exactly what the
Supreme courts said. They are not all right, And so fortunately Virginia does
not have a law. In fact, Virginia has some very strong protections for
parents. There is a has been recognized a cause of action for interference with
parental authority under Virginia common law. And so we amongst amongst our claims that
we have brought, we have brought a cause of action under the Virginia in
excuse me, interference with parential rights under Virginia law. And that's in addition
to the constitutional claims. And candidly, most states do not. Really all
states still have the presumption that parents act in the best in to their children
and that they have the right to make these decisions. It's just these recent
laws or bills that are being debated that are very disturbing and candidly have got
to be resisted with every fiber of our being soul. On that note,
what would you say to people in other states that might be considering laws that
would have changed your circumstances, that would have given the school full license to
do what it did wrongfully according to these allegations. What would you say to
people you know, even well intentioned people who you know might be they might
be on the left, they might you know, deeply care about the well
being of LGBT kids, kids suffering from the horrors of gender dysphoria, which
is legitimately an incredibly painful thing. What would you say to them about allowing
schools to keep parents in the dark laws that would allow and in fact,
in some cases, mandate that schools keep parents in the dark on these huge
questions of sex identification. Well, I would say, if you're going to
keep parents in the dark, you are robbing us of our right to protect
our children because they are not experts on our children. We are. They
do not know our children. I know my child better than any of them
ever did, and we must be the voice of reason for these kids.
I mean, they're going through puberty, They're going to change their minds when
the wind blows. That's just what it is. So to put adult decisions
on a child to begin with, never mind behind the parents' back, is
just going to cause It's just the consequences are going to be horrible. I
mean, I'm just I can just see the writing on the wall with this
happening. I mean, if you're going to take my child away from me
and put her in a safe house, I don't even know what we're going
to do. I mean, you have to remember, I was traumatized.
Not only are these children being traumatized, we are too, these parents.
I was petrified to speak out. I didn't know what to say. So
I'm not alone, but I will tell you that we love our children.
We are not the bad guys. We want what's best for our children,
and I think that parents need to stand together and let them know that.
Emily, I had served for five years on the state Board of the Department
Services here in Georgia, which has our child a Tective Services. As part
of that agency, I help co chair the Chilbotective Services Subcommittee, and I
can just tell you that states are struggling to respond to actual legitimate abuse and
neglect. They can barely handle the number of cases and the number of kids
in foster care due to actual legitimate abuse and neglect, you know, physical
sexual harm and so forth that they can They can really hardly even handle those
cases. And to to think of taking away children from loving parents is we're
talking about completely destroying and undermining, completely destroying the system. Since that you
can't actually respond to kids who do need that are being a truly abused you
think about, it's just completely perverse. You know. I'm really glad you
make that point, because I was actually just going to ask about the cases
with the points in these allegations where we see incompetence together with ideology, or
incompetence instead of ideology. I mean, some of these cases, the one
thing that stands out to me, I'm going to read actually from the lawsuit
because this one is just unbelievable. Where you have the you have an officer
Gunter in this case, Gunter Gunster is interrogating, intimidating, and threatening Sage
according to the lawsuit, who is the sexual harassment victim. The way that
officer allegedly treated Sage is again a situation where it seems to me like they
just it's beyond ideology. They have no idea what they're doing. And I
had a similar reaction to the allegations about Maryland, where Sage ends up in
this group home being abused. Is that the consequence of ideology as well,
Yes, but it also seems like they have no idea what they're doing with
these these precious children. And both of you may have thoughts on on that,
because in some cases to me, it seems like it's it's a combination
of ideology and in competence and not just one or the other. Thank you,
thank you, and to be and you know what, I need to
piggyback on that, because that's where Sage finally broke was when she was being
interrogated. I did not know. Had I known that the bullying was this
horrific that parents had to even call in, I would have taken Sage out
of that school immediately. I would have taken her out I immediately and got
her the mental health support that she's so desperately needed. And I'll add to
that the ideology, particularly obviously in the school when Michellby talked about that,
Within the Maryland juvenile court system, the ideology drove the incompetency because best practice
in terms of handling trauma, in terms of responding to victims. This was
a victim of sexual assault and sex trafficking, right, not just you know,
a pat on the rear end, multiple rate and sex trafficking. This
is probably the most serious of compon victims. And somehow, for frankly,
the police officer has been more importantly this public defender to bring her into the
juvenile juvenile system as if she's a juvenile delinquent. Frankly, it was in
order to continue to maintain control. That was the purpose of all of this,
and so the ideology overwhelmed everything that we all know about trauma, about
sex abuse victims, about children needing their parents, and how they should be
restored immediately to their parents unless there's an action, will you proof of actual
abuse and neglect? All of these well established understanding of children was thrown out
the door. Not to mention how vulnerable stage is not even a hundred pounds.
She's small, She's a small girl. The idea of putting a diminutive
little girl who already had been raped in with couple of boys. Again,
you're throwing out our basic knowledge of youth, of kids because of the ideology.
The ideology drives the confidence the washed. Aldo on Wall Street Podcast with
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disgusting. And on top of that, it reminds me of what we were
talking about earlier of miss Olsen allegedly jumping to, oh, go ahead,
use the boys bathroom without even considering this history of mental health that Michelle,
you had disclosed to the school that the school rightfully needed to know in order
to prevent decisions like this allegedly from happening. Michelle, can you tell us
more about I imagine over the course of this incredibly painful experience, you've learned
how human trafficking in some cases happens, and child trafficking in some cases happens.
I imagine some listeners are curious about that. My understanding from the lawsuit
is that Sage left through a window, was then somehow going to contact with
someone who brought up to Washington See and then to Baltimore. She ended up
in Texas at one point. Can you tell us what do you what you've
learned about that industry and those patterns from this entire ordeal. Well, what
I've learned is that social media, I think COVID really took a hit on
all these kids' mental health because everybody's been on the social media and these kids
are vulnerable. And if I have to sign a document at school to let
the school give my daughter a tile in all, then I'm pretty sure I
should sign something to allow her to go into the same bathroom as a boy.
So when she left, she was having a mental breakdown. So when
this Virginia guy picked her up, I mean they brought out searchain rescue dogs
that lost the scent, So she obviously was meeting people that was grooming her
that she just did not know, because that's how she ended up losing her
innocence. And I mean, just horrible circumstances, like Burnidette was just saying,
just horrible. From Virginia to DC to Maryland where we could have ended
it on day nine, and it just continued from there. And when Sage
was missing, I ended up with Freedom four twenty four in Lynchburg, a
nonprofit organization that gave me so much knowledge. Scared me. But now I
understand why these kids are leaving home, and it has really just because their
kids running away. Look, because that's what teenagers do. They're looking for
excitement, I don't think it really has anything to do with lifestyle. It's
just a teenage thing because their brains are still developing. And she really truly
thought she was meeting a sixteen year old kid, so it was not only
a route awakening, it almost killed. It's a miracle this child's alive.
There really is. These guys are good, man. They're waiting at every
corner, they are in every game room, they are everywhere. They're just
waiting for kids exactly like Sage that have had a lot of trauma, you
know, and Emily. That's what makes it so insidious that school officials across
the country are Unfortunately, what happened to Sage in terms of the secretive transitioning
at school is by no stretch and isolated incidents. By just the opposite.
There is a national movement where we are all across the country where school officials
are taking the position that they are deliberately undermining the authority of parents when a
child expresses a discordant gender identity. Whereas in just you know, just a
few years ago, they generally speaking, the position was to work cooperatively with
parents and transparently. It's now you're just seeing this domino effect all across the
nation of promoting this this ideology, and as part of it is deliberately coming
out the parents. And what I want to continue to stress is that when
you do that, you place a child. There are there are predators.
There are people out there that are waiting for children to be isolated, and
they're waiting for children to fall into their nets, into their into their webs,
all right. And so by by by driving wedges between between teens and
their parents at a time of stress and distress in their life, you are
setting children up for harm. And unless you're prepared to own all the consequences
that your interference with parental rights sets in motion, then you shouldn't start it
to begin with, because otherwise you need to own it all. That's right.
I agree, Michelle hasn't been frustrating with this personal experience to watch this
issue be sort of kicked around like a political football in the national discourse over
the last couple of years. Is it hard to watch that having gone through
what you did? Yeah, one hundred percent, you know what I just
it just drives me, like my heartbreaks every single time, because you know,
I moved out of a big city in Massachusetts to raise my daughter,
my granddaughter here in a small town. So this was never on my radar,
So that that kind of is my warning to people. My top priority
has always been Sage, and my ability to protector was just robbed. It
was stolen from me by a small town. So I guess my morning is,
guys, this is real, this is happening. It's not just to
Sage, it's to our chill been all over the nation. And if you
don't think it could happen to you, you need to think again, you
really really do, because you know, if it wasn't for me having the
training as a CASA, I would never ever have made it through this.
My mental health never would have made it through this alive. I'm so serious.
I don't know how parents are are handling this. I just happened to
have some experience with the court system for children and juvenile court system. But
without that I was I would have been. I don't I don't know.
I mean, my husband was seventy three. He could not be He almost
even the judge had to ask Kemp, the bailiff, to remove him because
he couldn't remember to call her by a boy's name. It was horrible.
We were in tears, like just and I kept asking him, Okay,
could you just please get somebody to talk to her about all the trauma?
She please? Please, and they just they just did not see it as
a trauma case. It was our heart wrenching and candidly that should never have
been necessary for your husband to have to have to be put through that.
I just want to say, this is not This is no longer a big
town, a big city, small town issue anymore, and it's not even
a right left issue anymore. We encounter parents from every part of the political
spectrum. We help all parents, and if there's any civil lining in all
of this, Emily, I always like to leave with some ray of hope
because it's so dark, is that we're actually seeing this issue, this issue
of parental rights be a unifying issue where I have I have colleagues and I
have parents on the left and on on the rights saying, you know what,
we agree on this one thing that you know, parents have to be
the ones who make these decisions and they're not gonna We're not gonna let our
you know, school officials or others take that out of our hands. So
it actually is bring you right and left together in many ways, certainly at
the grassroots, and we want to challenge those leaders that have stood against this
parental rights issue. You know, wake up, wake up, wake up.
It flipped things in Virginia. So again, let's let's let this be
an issue that brings us together because we all want to protect our kids.
Yes, I agree, I so agree with that. Well, you have
both been so so fascinating to listen to and so generous with your time.
Michelle Blair is the mother of Sage. Her attorney is Bernadette Broyles with the
Child and Parental Rights Campaign, Inc. She is the president and general counsel
over there. I know you guys have some help on the suit from FAIR.
It's being supported by FAIR, and so we appreciate both of you.
Michelle, thank you for sharing your story. Vernondette, thank you so much
for sharing your insights. Thank you, thank you very much for letting us
be heard. Absolutely. Of course, of course, of course, we'll
keep following this important, important story. I'm em Elijashnski, culture editor here
at The Federalist. We'll be back soon with more of freedom and thank you