Welcome back, everyone to a new episode of You Were Wrong with Molly Hemingway
and David Harsani. Just as a reminder, if you like to email the
show, please do so at radio at the Federalist dot com. We love
hearing from you. Molly. Did you notice that almost everyone who mailed this
week spelled your name correctly, including the person who was like, note that
I'm spelling your name correctly. I loved our mail this week, including the
person who knew who Richard Holly was. I listened to Richard and did you
like I didn't love it, didn't love it, but I'm going to give
it more of a chance. But that's we have to save that for later
in the show. Now in the show, we're going to talk about politics.
Wh're Someone of the letter writers said he likes it eighty twenty percent?
Was it seventy thirty? I don't remember, but something like that. It
was eighty twenty. I thought it was a woman, but now I'm oh,
it might have been. It might have been, It might have been.
Anyway, let's start with New Hampshire, the primaries that happened this week.
You were right, it was it was a man going okay, Donald
Trump one. He's a man, and he'd beat a woman. Nicky Hlly
is a one. I was not aware that Nikki Heley was a woman,
but I heard someone mention that recently, so I figured out she was a
woman. That's a joke about how she won't stop talking about how she's a
woman, as if that's like a trait that makes her a better candidate.
But go on, yeah, well, she can use her heels to spike
you in the head or whatever she sit as a weapon. You better not
forget. I think expectations were higher for her, Is that fair to say.
I don't know, because I had been talking with someone who's really familiar
with New Hampshire politics for months. He thought that she could pull off a
victory given the unique situation of the state, how easy it is to switch
registration to Republican. So I had been in my mind. I had thought
that she might win. I had said that on TV, you know,
she might win. She might win. The later polls, even after Christie
dropped out and DeSantis dropped out and Vivaque dropped out and made their various endorsements
or non endorsements, they did not show her winning. So I think people
did not expect her to win, but this was sort of her high mark.
If she couldn't win liberal Northeast Republican slash Democrat influenced Republican primary New Hampshire,
like it wasn't going to go much better from here. But she did
all right, Like she got she definitely coalesced the anti Trumpist vote. I
would say, yeah, I mean, I'm thinking out loud here, but
for me, it seems like once Desanta's out, obviously many of his voters
didn't go to to her, or they went to Trump, you know,
which tells me that he, from the beginning is the actual candidate that people
could have coalesced around to give maybe Trump a run in the end. Like
I wrote, I just don't think Trump was going to lose really no matter
what happened here. But all those donors getting behind Haley, it makes no
sense to me. There's just no appetite for that. Even she couldn't even
really I mean, you say she did well, but it wasn't really competitive.
A lot of her voters were independence and stuff. I'm not saying that
those voters don't count because in the general that those are people you're going to
want to go after. But for her to perform at that level here,
it just means she's not really a viable candidate. So I don't really even
know why she I think it's over right, we're just pretending now for content
that's something still going on. No, I think that people make a lot
of mistakes when they're analyzing the political situation, and one of them would be
to assume that ostensibly Republican don'ts want the Republican candidate to defeat the Democrat candidate
in the general election. And I've had some recent conversations, like as in
this week, with some top donor types where I think it's fair to say
that top ostensibly Republican donors actually would like Joe Biden to win reelection. So
if you operate with that mentality, like I think the people backing Nikki Haley's
that's actually a slightly different group than who I've been talking to. But the
people who backed Nicki Haley, which would be the Cooke Network people, I
think they want Biden to win again. Probably I mean, like, let
me let me be more clear, they would like a different Republican to win
the nomination, and barring that, they would like republic the actual Republican nominee
picked by Republican voters to lose. So you don't think there's any good faith
donors who backed Haley who just don't like Trump and or would would you know?
I am sure or there are some. I'm just saying you make a
mistake of thinking like that the Republican primary is designed to win Republican victories,
and that if you acknowledge that part of the effort here is actually to hurt
Trump no matter what in the general, you could see continued donor funding really
for the long haul, including like like even all the way, just to
capture as many delegates as possible and to have some kind of sway at the
at the convention, or if something were to happen to Trump one way or
another, to have someone well positioned otherwise. It's kind of like a last
ditch effort. But I don't think it's designed to secure Republican victories in the
fall. The fact that Republican donors and Republican voters slash the country might be
at odds is not the healthiest situation, but it's something worth acknowledging, no
matter your position on the issues, to just know what you're dealing with.
Well again, but that still doesn't change the fact that if you wanted to
get rid of Trump, the best candidate to do that would have been DeSantis.
He is the most He's a fusion candidate between the populist rhetoric and kind
of more old timey or you know, I don't know, movement conservative stuff.
I just think he was a better candidate. But I want to just
say, I just don't think primary voters actually care very much about general election
viability either. Really. I mean, I wish there was something in between
having just this small number of people deciding and having a small number of donors
deciding. Like, you know, it just seems weirdly, you know,
like they are at odds more I think than maybe a general election Republican voter
would be a yeah, no, I think I think you might be right,
particularly when you look at Iowa, which had a lower than normal voter
turnout, probably because of the horrific weather but also maybe because of lack of
enthusiasm, whereas in New Hampshire you actually had you had a like, really
robust Republican primary. You had Donald Trump breaking his record for a number of
people coming out to vote for him. But you also had Nicki Haley breaking
some records in terms of opposition candidates, so there is enthusiasm there. I
mean, definitely true that a lot of non Republicans voted in the Republican primary
and that their votes went to Nicki Haley. It's undoubtedly true. You saw
all the interviews with people saying that they were voting for Nicki Haley to hurt
Trump, but then they'll be voting for Biden in the general. Like that's
a real thing. I don't know how, I don't know how many people
that is, but it's like sizeable enough to make some kind of difference.
But yeah, I know, I agree, like there's like a disparity between
the hardcore primary voter and the general. Also, I'm the one usually being
lectured about Trump and his appeal, but I actually want to say something here
where I hear a lot of people talk about how Trump where someone like Nikki
Haley or a moderate will have more reach with voters in the Northeast. But
coming you know, being from Long Island and knowing a lot of people still
live there, I think that people underestimate how Trump maybe appeals to kind of
largely not very ideological Northeast kind of conservative dispositionally voter right, he is really
not that you know, hardcore on the issues that maybe you know, the
old timey again a single time, but like the traditional conservative might be social
issues aside, you know, social security, whatever, these things that turned
off a lot of those voters I think are open to him there. I
mean, I think he won Nassau County and Suffolk County last election, which
is what I know. But anyway, I just think he has an appeal
to those kind of voters that in the Northeast Republicans at least that maybe people
don't understand it, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I absolutely
think it's interesting. How so this, you know, Donald Trump creates such
a strong reaction in so many people. A lot of people hate him,
a lot of people love him. But for him being hated, it's kind
of weird because he's one of the more moderate Republican types when it comes to
a lot of policy issues that can reach a lot of voters. So it's
somewhat interesting how hot the opposition is to him. But I do think it
might be in the Republican Party's interest given that the voters of the Republican Party
have expressed their strong you know, states as different as Iowa and New Hampshire,
and you know, Iowa, Trump won a contested primary with like fifty
three percent of the vote. I don't remember what the final vote total was
in New Hampshire. Was it like fifty five or something fifty four? I
think him okay, but like that was a state that he should not have
done well in this year. Necessarily he won that one, and then it's
only going to get kind of better for him from here, I think.
And so acknowledging the reality that the conservative voter or the Republican voter, once
this person is their nominee, it would probably make sense for the leadership of
the party to get behind it. And it sounds like that's already happening a
little bit. Like I think I saw that Ronna Romney McDaniel was on Fox
last night talking about how enough voices had been heard to coalesce around the nominee.
But this being the Republican Party, and no offense to those of you
who identify as Republican, but it's I think that known as the stupid Party
for a reason. Like they'll probably make a series of bad decisions here over
the next few weeks or months to make it less likely that they will win
in November. Listen, if Nicki Haley was winning, people won't be coalescing
around her just because the primary voters picked her. I mean, you know
it does well done? Hold on, yeah, well done. If Nicki
Haley had won thus far are people might not be coalescing because her path from
here on might be more difficult. But I think it's important to note like
New Hampshire's kind of the high mark for the Nicky Haley campaign. So it's
just theoretical as I'm just theoretically saying. I'm just saying. I'm not saying,
like coals around someone to two contests in like it was twenty twelve with
Mitt Romney, where people kept on like taking turns trying to fight him being
What I'm trying to say is not any of that. What I'm trying to
say is if there was a neo conservative type who's winning this thing and was
going to run away with it, I don't believe that a lot of the
populist types would be like, we got to coalesce around this candidate. It's
the people's will, you know, I mean, hold on, hold on,
yeah, yeah, let's just look at recent history. Okay, there
have been really difficult primary battles for the Republican nomination. You know, just
like just take it from two thousand, do you know George W. Bush
was not like definitely a fan favorite among the donors but not necessarily the people.
But you know, he won, and then everyone kind of coalest two
thousand Yeah, and then you were done. I mean, it was a
primary contest like then, and then everyone coalesced around him and they supported him.
They supported him in two thousand and four, and then in two thousand
and eight there was a bit of a fight and then McCain right forgetting away,
and then people coalesced around him. And then twenty twelve really bitter primary
battle, and then it was Mitt Romney and then there was like a lot
of pressure like, hey, everybody, you gotta go around this guy,
the father of Obamacare in Massachusetts, like you got it, you know,
it's so important, and so everyone kind of coalesces. And really the only
like the outlier of this of this story is the twenty sixteen nomination with Trump,
where there continued to be resistance. There's like this special Trump rule where
you're allowed to not come behind him now I mean Trump? Yeah, yeah,
right, sorry, sorry, go ahead, I just say Trump.
But Trump is different. He runs against the Republican establishment, so he is
not treated the same by those establishment, whereas it runs against them. If
you're met Romney and you run against the Republican voter, that's okay. But
you can't run against the Republican establishment because then, you know, then then
all the rules are off. You don't have to coalesce around them. Well,
what happened between twenty sixteen and twenty twenty where you had the Republican voters
all, you know, like Republican voters. Not all of them supported Trump
for the nomination, in fact, like a majority did not, but then
they all came together to elect him president. And then they witnessed four years
of Republican establishment rejection, you know, a lot to a lesser or greater
degree. Like some people were strongly opposed and some people were just sort of
like secretly opposed, but they saw this rejection, which a lot of Republican
voters felt was a rejection of them. And so to see that continue you
in the twenty twenty four primary, I'm just I'm just letting you know that
a lot of Republican voters can't stand the way that they were asked to come
behind candidates they didn't like John McCain, Mitt Romney, but then the moment
that they picked someone that the establishment didn't like, it was like all bets
are off and you can totally reject and oppose. And it was one of
these things, like a story that kind of took a little time to unfold.
I think immediately after the twenty sixteen election, I think a lot of
people thought, oh, yeah, that was a hard fought election. Now
we come together. And you saw that in the Trump White House. He
brings in who was that guy from Ryan's previous you know, was sort of
like the establishment figure, and he had some of his own figures, and
the idea was like, we'll meld this together. And little did people know
that some of these people that were brought into the administration were actually like resistance
agents. And I'm not saying that about Ryan's but you know, like there
were resistance agents brought in, and there was like this rebellion, and there
was anonymous and there was all that stuff. And I think a lot of
Republican voters soured on the Republican establishment seeing how poorly they handled a Republican victory.
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am I'm just saying that the primers have just ended. Trump is not a
normal candidate. I get it, but I'm a little confused by do you
keep saying that that that the voters didn't want Mitt Romney. They had the
same process and they picked miss Mitt Romney over other candidates. They picked McCain
and they paid Georgie. Do you remember. I don't so, I don't
remember exactly what happened in each primary, but my sort of like big picture
memory of that in twenty twelve was that different candidates took turns trying to take
on Romney like you would have one person come in first or seeing right,
and it kind of went like down to the Santorum. At one point there
was a ging Rich Boomlet and it seems like people were not loving like the
establishment kind of like rallied around Mett Romney pretty quickly, but that the voters
were It took a lot longer to convince them. But then once he was
the nominee, they did their duty and they showed up and voted, and
they did all that. I mean, it's not don't I don't want anyone
to think I'm saying that I don't believe that most GOP voters right now want
Donald Trump. I think they do. I think even if you had an
open primary to like every Republican in the country, he would be more popular
than any other candidate. I don't think DeSantis would beat him then either.
I think it is clear that GOP voters think that he deserves another chance,
that he deserves it because he is the victim of law fair and so on,
and you know, I just think he is the candidate. I'm just
saying that this this idea that everyone's just got to line up right after the
you know, it is too much. And also he and I think Trump
needs these people to win an election, so it should be reaching out to
them as well. David, can we talk a little bit about the other
thing that happened since we talked last, which is DeSanto's dropping out, because
I think that relates quite a bit to this. I think it showed that
he's a that he just realized what reality was all about, and it was
just a waste of time. So I again, I just think he I
think he struggled to gain any traction because once the law fair started, it
was over right. And because he struggled to gain traction, it seemed like
there was a campaign that was constantly, you know, just struggling to come
up with a message and this and that, but there was no message.
Just my view that there was no message that he could come up with that
was going to change the dynamics of that race. So he came off poorly,
and everyone likes the pile on, you know when a person loses.
I don't think his political career is over. I think he could run in
a few years. You never know what happens. I mean a million things
can happen. He might even who knows, maybe he'll be the VP candidate.
I don't know, right, but I think he did the right thing.
I just don't think there was any path forward, you know, from
a political standpoint, if he was just there sort of trying to bring Trump
down a peg that would play poorly with Republicans in the long run. And
I think Trump said some nice words about him and stuff, So Dinny say,
you know, Ron, It was actually kind of comical because like the
day before it's Ron to sanctimonious, and then like once he drops out,
he's like, he ran an amazing campaign. What a good guy. Love
the man. I always think this about Trump, like if you're like you
could be disloyal, and he'll go after you really hard, harder than maybe
any politician would. But once you make up with him and you show like
a little bit of loyalty, like you see Tim Scott's standing there like a
completely teamed politician. Yeah. Could I I just have to say, I
was doing Fox the other day and normally they give you like a little bit
of a warning in your ear that you're about to go on, but I
don't know if I missed that or whatever. So they're showing this rally that
was like a unity rally for Donald Trump in New Hampshire, and the Vake
Ramaswami is up there and he's giving like an impassioned speech, and then Doug
Bergham, who I don't like. I feel like he's not super conservative,
but I sort of loved him in the debates. He touches my free market
heart, you know, my economics heart. So he was up there being
like, this is the only man that can defeat Joe Biden. And then
Tim Scott was like, I don't know if it was that he just got
engaged that he is, He's like a new man. He was so on
fire, like he sounded like more exciting than I've ever heard Tim Scott my
entire life. And he was doing his impassioned plea for Trump, and it
was so impassioned that it actually struck me as funny. So I was laughing
and just enjoying, you know, it's just like kind of like a funny
little thing to watch. And then they cut to me and I realized,
like, I'm on air right now laughing about or like, you know,
enjoying Tim Scott being totally ambulent in praise. I'm so bad on can someone
give me more? That? On TV? Though, when they have like
there's two minutes left, or when however, they do it at the end
of an interview, like the minute left in your ear, it always distracts
me to the point where I don't even know what I was talking about.
Like it's it's just difficult for me. So I admire how good you are
on TV, Molly. I have to say half my job and the political
part of it is just me struggling to understand why people like the people they
like, my voters do what they do. It's just constantly seems irrational to
me. To me, Tim Scott seems like a really good candidate, like
a good VP candidate for Trump if he was out there, but apparently he
can't really generate much excitement. So I wonder like Kamala could only like pick
up one delegate and they made her a vput for other reasons, but maybe
similar reason since I don't know, but why I pick someone who's really not
that popular with Republicans in general. I'm not totally done talking about Ronda scantisks
so I want to do that. But if we can remember maybe today,
but I think that you know, we've talked to the Federalist with the team
that was you know, the team has grown quite a bit since twenty sixteen,
but some of us were there in twenty sixteen, and we talk about
lessons learned from that, and I think, if we're all being honest,
twenty fifteen twenty sixteen difficult period of time to do political journalism. It was
very confusing how much people liked Donald Trump, particularly for those of us who
were in the like DC, New York, you know, group think area.
One thing that helped the Federalists not go down the path that some others,
you know, ostensibly right of center publications did is that we had so
many contributors from the rest of the country. In the rest of the country.
So when we'd be like, done Trump, he's not even conservative,
likes what's going on here, we would have contributors who would submit pieces saying
like, I don't know, I like him, I like this, I
like that, I like that he says this, I'm kind of sick to
death of the Republican Party and it It just really helped to have that perspective.
But everyone agrees that the number one lesson we learned from twenty sixteen was
to lecture Republican voters less and to listen to them more. And so I
kind of got a kick out of how like, after Iowa and New Hampshire,
you're hearing a lot of people being like the voters are stupid. Well,
there are a lot of things voters do that I don't agree with,
and my own views are pretty like hardcore in a way that most voters aren't.
But sometimes it's just good to listen to people. So to that end,
like the people did not find Tim Scott to be a viable presidential candidate,
and that's meaningful. You know, you can't win an election when you
don't have the people with you, and they just want with him. When
it comes to vice presidents, however, I think it's a completely different calculus.
I personally have written in the pages of The Federalist my own opposition to
Mike Pence from the years I think it was twenty fourteen when he mishandled the
Religious Freedom Restoration Act issue in Indiana, So like this predates any idea that
Donald Trump would ever be president. I'm not a huge, huge Mike Pence
fan. Having said that, I've also written a lot in defense of him,
But I do think he was actually a brilliant vice presidential pick. And
I say that because he did. He did such an amazing job in that
debate in twenty sixteen where he articulated how someone who is motivated by social conservatism
supposedly you know, riffra notwithstanding as I just mentioned, would support someone like
Donald Trump. A big part of the Never Trump campaign was to say that
if you cared about virtue, that you couldn't vote for someone like him.
You had to vote for Hillary Clinton, who supported or you know, to
do what it took to help Hillary Clinton defeat Donald Trump, even though she
had been on the record with all this on virtuous stuff. And so I
think he was a really good pick. Maybe not the perfect pick, but
a really good pick. And likewise, I think your pick for vice president
even like a Joe Biden, he said he was going to be racist in
who he picked, Like I think he said it would be racist and sexist,
is that right? And then so he was like limited to a certain
you know group, and he didn't want someone to steal his thunder, and
you know, he picked someone who was like an insurance policy for him.
Like it kind of maybe works, I don't know. And so with Donald
Trump, I think he has to pick someone like he has to be laser
focused on winning an election. And I'm sorry for going on so long here,
but no, but you know, people were really talking about Nicki Haley
as a potential VP candidate, and I think I'm clear on not loving her.
And one of the things that worried me, particularly before they both said
that they wouldn't work with each other in this capacity, is it would kind
of make sense to pick her, and I was really worried that he would.
So I'm kind of glad that appears not to be happening now. Although
never say never with this person, but it might help, you know,
someone like her might help him win the election. Yeah, I don't think
so, but just quickly want to for the record say that I have learned
zero lessons since twenty sixteen. I don't care what voters say. I never
have tried to lecture anyone. I just give them my opinion on stuff.
But I definitely don't care what voters say. Voters are always wrong, and
I don't think that we should listen to them. You listen to them to
understand what they're trying to argue and say, but there's no reason to agree
with you follow their lead. Yeah, no, I saw their lead at
all. It's interesting what you say about beep choices. There are different kind
of vice presidents you have like Bush I think named Cheney more like a chief
of staff almost a person who can get things done because he didn't have experience,
and you know what I mean, Biden was named because he showed he
was literally no threat to the president in any way. And then sometimes you
want vps to you're starting a movement of some sort or you were like you
want conservatism to be propelled forward. You want the next person to run.
And if I'm Trump and there's an actual thing called trump Ism, which I
don't think is actually as successful as Trump himself in any way, then you
want someone who's going to sort of carry on your legacy in the next election.
Tim Scott's not going to do that. Nikki Haley's not going to do
that. Mike Pence wasn't going to do that. That's a he was more
of like a Cheney kind of pick I think, right, I mean,
a guy who can like help you deal with the Senate or whatever it was,
or the House or knows DC. I don't know what I think.
Mike Pence was just like Trump's say saying, I'm a bit out there and
this is like the most milk toast kind of politician imaginable, and he's going
to bring stability to my administration, you know, but I don't know.
I don't know what he's thinking ever. But so I'm just thinking if somebody,
if he wanted someone who can help him move his movement forward, would
that not be more like DeSantis maybe than even though I don't really think they're
as the same as other people do. But I don't know. Thank you
for mentioning DeSantis. So yeah, I have it right here. I was
going to bring us back to it. That's a very long segue. I
am just just back to the like everyone has to go around Trump immediately and
coalesce around him. I saw that when DeSantis dropped out and endorsed Trump.
You know, a lot of DeSantis's online army, which has not served him
well. I think it's sir, they were not ready to endorse Trump yet.
I'm like, give these people some time, Like it's horrible. I'm
not a political person in terms of you know, can pains or anything like
that, but I think about what it must be like to devote your life
in whatever fashion to the support of a particular candidate. I don't like politicians,
so I could just could never do this, but and they don't disappoint
me because I start out not liking them, so they just can't disappoint me.
But there were really good people who put a lot of time and energy
and effort into DeSantis. They very much understood him as an effective governor.
They thought that he would translate on a national stage. They didn't seem to
think the issues with Trump not being off the stage mattered, you know,
like they they cared and they had a good guy and they want to see
him have a good future. And it was a really bitter, like mean
campaign. You had Trump lying about him like all this stuff. I assume
like most people who supported Dysantis, not that there were that many people who
supported Disantas, but most of them will will if they were into him for
his governance and stuff like that. It's going to be like an easy decision
in the fall of twenty twenty four on who you vote for. But you
got to give people a little bit of a chance to like heal their wounds
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or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah. I also think it's an
easy decision in many ways because the president is so terrible, right, and
what he's done is so terrible, and he's so incompetent. So if you're
an independent and you're not that ideological, but you know you're sort of conservative,
I don't think you have much, you know. I feel like so
my arguments always that Trump isn't actually isn't very successful in many places and you
end up losing a lot in Arizona, Georgia. Not Trump. I'm just
saying, like this whole popular stuff. But Trump himself, he can beat
Biden because Biden is so terrible that you can win states that maybe other you
know, at other times you wouldn't. But yeah, I don't know how
someone who supports DeSantis wouldn't win, you know, wouldn't vote for Trump,
other than if they have some kind of like deep seated moral problem with him
maybe or something like that. Go on, yeah, and then you vote
for the guy who makes sure to kill babies and packed there. We don't
vote all that kind of stuff. Okay, thereby helping the guy who kills
babies and packs the court whatever, it's fine. I do think it's interesting
that we're having, for the first time in like one hundred and twenty years
or I can't do math, one hundred and forty years, whatever, an
opportunity to look at two presidencies side by side and pick which one you like
better? Right like since Grover Cleveland, we haven't had this where you had
Trump, you experienced that presidency and you know Biden and you experienced that presidency,
and now you just get to be like, which one do I like
better? And it you know, I think for a lot of people it's
going to be like, go, I liked this one better. And so
you see all like the Democrat and other anti Trumpist talking points are all about
like other things like oh Trump is authoritarian or January sixth was the worst moment
in the history of the world. And it seems like an effort to not
just talk about what the Trump presidency was like versus the Biden presidency, like
economically, in terms of world peace, in terms of the border, in
terms of crime, in terms of taking on corrupt corporate media, like whatever
the thing is that you care about. You just get to see a good
side by side. It's weird, we'd never get this opportunity. It's always
like you look in twenty twenty, it was like, well, maybe Joe
Biden will be better than what we're going through now, and then you got
to see it and it's like, Okay, I guess not. You know,
but I think that you've so many times it's present. Presidential elections aren't
actually about issued issues. It's about how who can get the vote out,
and a lot of that has to do with enthusiasm for candidates and things like
that. I don't see a lot of enthusiasm for Biden. But I do
wonder if, like the bigger the election, the less like issues matter to
people. I think there's just an ingrained part is in right, like if
you're voting for this is why you get Republican governors in like state deep blue
states sometimes I know they're very moderate and all that, but people care less
about I think, partisanship, whereas when you're talking about the presidency, it's
about everything in your life, it's about your whole belief system, and it's
really difficult to change people's minds. So I don't even know why I'm talking
about this, but I just feel like, how much enthusiasm is there for
Biden? This is why I think Trump has a good shot at it.
You know, I just don't feel like any a because of what you just
said, would be because he's such an He's not a charismatic person. Honestly,
I don't think I've ever met anyone's actually excited about voting for Biden,
like people are excited about Trump, who love people, were excited about Obama,
who loved them. They were actually excited about Clinton as well, and
Ray again and maybe even w you know, in the beginning. So but
I don't I think again, but they were excited about voting against Trump,
that's for sure. So that is an issue, and I think people need
to be enthusiasm for that. I keep thinking about with New Hampshire, Yeah,
Trump won. He won decisively. He won with a bigger percentage of
the vote total than he didn't I, which is actually kind of, you
know, somewhat surprising given what New Hampshire is. But even even if you
acknowledge that a lot of Nikki Hayley's votes were sort of like Democrat dirty tricksters
or independent dirty tricksters, it still means something that people are that motivated by
their, you know, sure irrational hatred of a man, because like irrational
hatred is easy to whip up, and they have the corporate media and they
have all their other institutions that can whip up that hatred. And that is
like a real thing that will be present throughout twenty twenty four. So no,
I on guard against it. Yeah, when you have a general election,
those are actually people who are going to vote right. And so there
is something to be said for trying to get independence on your side, which
is I you know, if I'm a Republican, I worry about that with
Trump, and not because he's conservative in a way. It's just his whole
demeanor I think turns some kind of you know, a certain segment of society
off, even if they're not very political Also, you know what people who
just like pay attention, uh you know, who don't play attention to politics
every day they hear how like extreme Trump is and what an extremist he is
on this and that, but he's actually not. I mean, I say
so all the time about My problem with is with him is that he isn't
an economic conservative, for instance, and that matters to me. So anyway,
anyway, he'll be interesting to see. I just don't I think everything
that people do now with Haley kind of like ginning up interest about you know,
is just for like ad in TV and for donors, like this is
over right, you agree, Well, that's kind of what I was saying
earlier though, that if you're Nikki Haley and the donors, you're actually trying
to hurt Trump. So it's not over. It's going to go on till
the very end, because the whole point is to hurt Trump. So now
I get that, but I don't think that's going to work because Donald Trump
is going to be running for the he's going to be racking up big victories.
He's going to be running for the for the for the for the general.
He's going to ignore Nicky Haley and only people are going to pay attention
are the media who concerts don't read well watch. I don't know. I
mean, I just want her to stay in through South Carolina. And I
think my husband keeps on joking about how this is a southern governor who's going
to win New Hampshire although she didn't, you know, but but did alright,
New Hampshire and will lose her home state. Presumably that's got to be
embarrassing. I want to see that embarrassment happen. Does that mean that DeSantis
would have lost his home state as well? Right if he stayed in,
which which by the way, should have been an indication for all of them.
Just saying anyway, all right, let's just like to say, nobody
could love Ron DeSantis more than the people who elected him by a twenty point
margin, right, all of those Republicans clearly love their governor. And if
he wasn't and if he wasn't going to win his home state, what chance
did he have in the rest of the country. You know? Well,
can I at first second just give the case for champion championing my normy candidates
who I like? So, yeah, Glenn Youngkin, who's not going to
run for president probably ever, maybe I don't know what's going to happen.
He is a plus twenty six in approval polls right now in Virginia, which
is a blue state. Let's be honest, I lived there, so yes,
I unders say it hasn't won. I don't think. I don't think
a Republican's won here in a long time. Right, Biden is a minus
thirty six in the same polls. Like that is a pretty incredible thing to
see. And he is. Listen, I don't think he's getting everything done
that he said, but he is a pretty competent, normal kind of candidate
that is not very Trump like that can do well in states. I think
the same thing of Georgia, and I sort of think the same thing of
Florida, And I just think that Republicans need more candidates like that. Just
putting in my norm my my endorsement of normal. What is it? What
kind of vest does he wear? What are those called police police vest wearing?
Like normy? You know the man, isn't he a billionaire? He's
rich? Yah? I don't know. I love him aim and by the
way, I like him. He even has done Trump rich Like, what
is that Trump's a billionaire? Is he probably not? What I'm no,
Actually, what I mean by that is who was just yesterday that couldn't believe
that the man that, like the total working class feels understands them the best,
is a billionaire from Queens. Like it doesn't make any sense, right,
But I meant like, is he in the sense of like it's sort
of a state of mind too, And I mean he probably doesn't have gold
toilets right like Trump did in whatever house he had, Like do you see
his you know what his a state looks like? Like what I'm saying is
like Trump acts like a billionaire and he still connects with people. Queen's actually
when he was born, for sure was a very middle class, working class
place. By the way, even though he wasn't born in that sort of
area. Anyway, I'm sick of talking about him. They're gonna have to
deal with this forever, both of these guys. Like I thought I was
done with Joe Biden like fifteen years ago or whatever. Can we talk about
the layoffs? The layoffs that Los Angeles Times once one of the great newspapers
in America? Oh so No, I actually I never was really like a
super reader of the time. So I would say in the West, it
was like one of the you know, just a major paper. I mean
it was big, you know, it was a big paper. I don't
know what it's circulations. It's a huge, biggest city in the United States,
right, so kind of important. So there's this little debate that broke
out online about like dancing on the graves of these reporters, right, and
is it you know I've got you know, I don't want to pick on
anyone, but some people said, you know, it's not you know,
you shouldn't. You know, it's in poor form, or it's not really
ethical to do it, or you should you know. I don't know what
the argument was. And I'm not big on dancing on you know, celebrating
when people get fired. But even though I think most of these people are
my enemy in a more a serious way than just a political opponent. But
the problem with these layoffs, I just want to say this is that and
I witnessed some of them at the at the Denver Post when I worked there,
is it's not like the worst people are being laid off. The real
problem people are rarely being laid off. What you're laying off our copy editors
culture, right, I don't get me around. Those people are probably far
flong leftists as well, but you're getting rid of like the local reporter who
toils in city hall and things like that. Someone with knowledge of the situation
told me, in fact that the best people were the ones laid off.
But that's like being you know, my problem is I'm not like saying much.
You know, like the best people at the LA Times are still pretty
bad people. So my point is, like every incentive I just keep saying
this, every incentive in media is to be terrible. You really even keep
your job longer than the person who's not completely terrible. So I just don't
think these Yeah, who's the guy who just bought the Baltimore Son. Did
you read that story? It's the Baltimore Son. Yeah. So there's this
guy, his name is David Smith, and he run I think he's like
the largest shareholder in Sinclair Media Group. But then like individually, he bought
the Baltimore Sun, and he is not left of center, and he has
purchased either through Sinclair or himself, like a bunch of media properties and people
were outraged. There were all these leftists who are like, how dare someone
who's not a crazy leftist purchase a media publication? And first off, I
just want to remind everybody that I think it was one of the Koch brothers
now known as the big Nikki hayleybackers, you know, so like that conservative
tried to buy the Los Angeles Times a few years ago, and it was
met with just unbelievable hostility and outrage. And it's you know, a tiny
bit funny to see that all these people who said you are not allowed to
buy our publication and try to salvage it are now dealing with a just a
complete hollowed out workforce. But secondly, I think that ownership kind of does
matter when it comes to media companies, even you know, like when I
started a Ganat publication, everyone I worked with was crazy left wing, but
the expectations of the editors, who were also left wing, by the way,
was that we report facts less than narrative. And I'm not saying that
the narrative didn't get through, but a lot of the people I worked with
were actually, like some of them were crazy leftists. Like when they left
there, they went and worked for crazy left wing groups and unions and stuff
like that. But they actually could write decent copy without being totally unhinged,
And I do wonder if that's not, you know, possible for a lot
of these people. They just need the proper incentive to say, like,
hey, we're going to focus on facts instead of your weird agenda, and
it would take care of you know, I don't know half of the problem
with the bias. Yeah, at this point, it's not even bias that
I'm biased that bothers me. It's just that that there are literally conspiracy theories
being spread and they're literally not things are not factual anymore. Used to read
between the lines, I got the story, I got that there was a
narrative attached, but at least i'd get the facts. Now I don't even
get that. So that's one of the problems. But also didn't a conservatives
from conservative German dude by Politico and it hasn't changed at all. Nothing's really
changed. Do you say conservative German dude? No, it's not conservative at
all. I thought I thought some conservative about Politico bought that company. Anyway,
I believe some conservative you're talking about Axel Springer, the German company.
Yeah, I thought the CEO is nothing conservative about them, all right,
So I had that run. I apologized, but I've long thought that conservatives
instead of and I'm not saying, don't scent the thing tanks. I think
thanks are nice and all that sort of billions they sent to candidates, that's
necessary, but they took some of that money. About a newspaper, a
major newspaper, I think that would be much more effected in helping the political
cause of conservatism. And I don't mean they need to create some kind of
like opinion journal. I'm just talking about straightforward reporting. Everything has a little
bias in it, even when you try not to, because you're right in
how you viewed the world and all that. But I just think it would
be helpful. Everyone says that or thinks to Wall Street Journal is conservative just
because it's not like outrageously left wing all the time, or because it's editorial
pages, you know, free market oriented, but it's really not very conservative
at all. I don't think there is any major conservative newspaper, maybe in
some sense the New York Post, but even there, the cultural stuff,
I would say is not very conservative. So Federalist is obviously a national political
focused publication. We also cover policy and culture and things like that. But
I do think there's an argument to be made for local media, and here's
the best argument, you know, like or here's the way to indicate that
it's important. The Left has invested hundreds of millions of dollars just in the
last few years alone in funding local media. Local media is read by a
lot of people. It's one of the reasons why at the Federalists we try
to pick up as many local stories as possible, whether that's about education or
other governance issues at the state or local level. It is very important to
people. It helps them make decisions. The Left has invested mightily in that.
And when you control the airspace, you control the ground game. And
the left understands that with media. That's why they did get mad when David
Smith bought the Baltimore Son because they view these institutions as theirs to play with,
to control what people think and how they vote and all these things.
Right of centered donors should think very seriously about the airspace and how little of
it they control. And part of that is through national media that make a
difference. You know, in the DC New York area that's like very very
very important and it goes down to the state and local level. But they
should also probably think about funding or like investing in local media as well.
Yeah, local media is huge because it affects people more, know more intimately
than anything else that happens. So, and the thing is, journalism is
a craft and people who have to who really report well, understand their topic
inside and out. They're embedded in the places where it happens. Like,
we do the best we can, right, but having someone on the ground
is super important. Anyway, A bigger picture just comment on this, is
that media is dying. No one trusts them. Is not a viable business
for the most part in many places anymore because no one trusts them. I
think it has to do with technology. Also, I know, I know
everyone wants to think it's all driven by ideological stuff, but it's technology.
Technologies change in the way we receive news. So are you worried because a
big case is often made and a lot of local reporters are fired, you
know, the people who are at city hall and stuff like that. Do
you think that this is really bad for democracy that we have papers sort of
dying in these cities Denver? Like I said in Denver. There's really no
major newspaper anymore, not anyone that really covers issues in any real serious way.
Okay, so I actually disagree with the thing you said. Well,
you're saying something about media dying, and I would say, it's not that
they're dying. In fact, they're very powerful. They might not make money,
but at least the left understands that the media aren't totally for the purpose
of making money so much as as obtaining power, and through power you might
make money, and they have other things, but it's also about just the
consolidation in the media space. So if you look, you know, like
go all the way back to Tokville when he's talking about how competitive newspaper environment
creates this vibrant democracy, we do not have that anymore. We do not
have competitive newspaper environment. We don't have it in towns or cities or states
or even in the nation. Really, we have a decreasing number of papers
controlled by a vastly decreasing number of corporations or individuals. It used to be
you know, hundreds or thousands, many thousands probably of owners in the media
space, and now we're down to like single digits in some cases. Like
most TV stations are owned by just a very tiny number of people. Same
with newspapers, same with radio stations, and that's not good for anybody.
No, And I don't know, you know, I was not prepared to
think about, you know, talking about solutions to this or anything. But
I don't think it's good. And I'd previously a few weeks ago talked about
how in my neighborhood they're bringing the Wizards and Capital's Arena to like to the
town that I live in. There was no media coverage of this prior to
it being based on a done deal. There was no input from the people
who will be affected by this, and now there's like no opportunity to fight
back against it, and still no real media pushing back against it. And
it's not good, Like it's it's unhealthy for civic health to have this level
of like there's no no buy in and no accountability and no scrutiny, and
that's what local media can really do. Yeah, it's a shame. Okay,
Let's talk about happier things, like all the women involved in the Barbie
movie being denied Oscar nominations. I loved our piece we ran about how like
don't blame the patriarchy for Ken being only nominated for he didn't deserve an ask
he doesn't deserve. I actually saw this movie. I thought it was okay,
but it wasn't anything Oscar worthy in the way that I remember things being
Oscar worthy. It's not very memorable, the stories kind of tropy and annoying
at the end. I think the performances were fine. Does Ryan Gosling really
deserve an Oscar nomination for that role? It seems like to me no,
But yeah, I'm not an expert cultural culture movie reviewer. What do you
think? So? I neither hated the movie nor loved the movie as much
as most people like. I was very much in the middle on it and
then even and I did not think it was but I did not think it
was a very high quality movie. I certainly don't think that it deserves the
Best Director nomination. And I'm fine with Ryan Gosling getting a nomination because I
think it's probably at least as good as the other nominees. I don't know.
I haven't read who the other nominees are, so sorry for that.
I do remember that when I went my oldest daughter, her favorite part of
the movie was when Ken drags the patriarchy back to Barbie World, which I
think is supposed to be a low point of the film, but in her
mind that was like when things kind of improved. And then I also want
to say, there's like a big speech that there is definitely not an Oscar
worthy speech given by America for Rara or their name about how being a woman
is so awful, and I didn't like that because I didn't want my kids
to think being a woman is awful, because being a woman is awesome.
But if you reinterpret that speech as feminism is awful, like what feminism demands
of people and how much it like never allows for happiness, it's a less
bad speech. But in general, I kind of wish Hollywood would make more
accessible films, such as a Barbie type film. I don't like all of
these like weird films that aren't actually there. We were talking in the Federalist
chat about that movie that I think you mentioned it that everything everywhere all at
once, Yeah, one icture, right, which I did. I mean,
I watched it and I found it incredibly frustrating, and like really thought
it was cute. You know, you could tell they thought they were cute,
and it wasn't nearly so good as it thought itself to be. I
thought it was visually arresting. Sure, so at least it had something which
I don't even think. Barbiehavies was so whiny, wasn't it. It was?
I hate whininess. Yeah, it was annoying. I mean I don't
even remember what it was about exactly, so that says that it wasn't very
good. Listen. I try to judge movies for what they are, right,
So if you're watching sort of you know, if I'm watching Mario Brothers
the movie or whatever it was called, you know, it was funny and
it did what it was supposed to do. A lot of movies I think
are pretentious and are like they exist to win Oscars. Like you can tell
that these people are really trying hard to win Oscars. That annoys me to
know, you know, I'm just annoyed by that. Let me read you,
by the way. The the movies that are up for Best Picture,
so the Holdovers, which I actually want to see. I want to see
that too, American fiction, no idea what that is? Well, I
definitely want to see that. That's the one where like the guy who's like
a legitimate author, but to be sold as a black author, you have
to be called oh yeah, I want a black author. And that guy
is annoying like that. The guy who stars in it is really annoying,
like he sometimes goes after me on Twitter, I think, but really he's
just he's very political. He was in he was in Westworld. I like
him as an actor. He's around yeah, okay, zone of interest.
I don't know what that is, no clue. Barbie Oppenheimer. Wait,
Barbie was nominated for Best Picture and they're all complaining about it that is does
not deserve to be They just made sure not to give the women any nominations.
Oppenheimer or things, which is like this RC movie with Emma Stone.
I haven't seen it. Past Live, what is it called? What is
the Poor Thing? Or things? Yeah? I like Past Lives. I
don't know what that is. Anatomy of a Fall. I don't know what
that is, Maestro, which I haven't seen. Nor that's the Bradley Cooper
doing U Upper. Yeah, what did you know? Did you know he
wastin? Did you know he was gay? I did? Sorry, it
seems like two hours of like he's gay, Okay, we got it.
The best thing to read on him is is Thomas Wolfe's Radical Chic. That's
his apartment, that that all happens. And then the final one is Kill
Killers of the Flower Moon, which incidentally I watched half of because I have
to set aside a lot of time to watch that movie. It's like three
and a half hours, but which I felt. What I've seen I think
is fine, is good. I don't think it's like one of the best
Scorsese movies, but it's okay. Have you seen that? No. Mark
has told me a great deal about this story on which it's based, and
so I just don't want to see that much. But I have read that
book. I mean I read, I read most of that book, and
this is not I mean, it's basically about that book, but it is
also a little preachy. Where's the book felt less preachy? Sorry, go
on, This has nothing to do with any of that. But somehow,
when you were mentioning Thomas Wolfe, I wanted to say that I had reread
Joan Didion's essay on Dick Cheney from during the Bush presidency, and it is
worth rereading. It's vicious, but it's worth rereading if you're not a huge
Actually, can I I have something now that you brought us down this alley?
There is a trailer out or tomorrow, the trailer for the new remake
of Roadhouses out with I can't say this actor's named Glennon Hall or Jinnen Hall,
Jillen Hall, jill In Hall, and it was it reminded me of
something someone said, and I do not know who this is or give them
credit, is that the problem with remakes isn't that we're remaking movies. We
should stop remaking movies that are perfect like Roadhouse and start rem making movies that
had great plots but were poorly made. Right And someone so I tweeted this,
and someone's like, well, give me an example of what that kind
of movie is. And I couldn't think of anything. But then someone sent
me a tweet that said Bonfire of the Vanities. So, just bringing it
back to Thomas Wolfe, that book is one of the greatest books about New
York ever written. The movie kind of sucks, So that would be one
that someone could remake and make better. Rather than taking movies everyone loves and
ruining them or making them more serious or dark. Or whatever people do.
Anyway, that's a conversation. Yeah, okay, I like it. I
only saw what did I watch? I watched watched a terrible movie. Don't
ask me why, and don't mock me, called Queen Pins. It has
like Kristen Bell. Is that her name? Oh? I think my husband
likes her. Oh. It's about these women who like they set up this
with coupons and make millions of dollars illegally. The reason I watched it was
because the two like cop figures who chase them are Vinson, who I sort
of like, but also the guy who played who was the Atlanta bomber,
and they made the movie Clinicewood made a movie about it. Do you know
what I'm talking about? Oh? I know. It's called Richard Jewel and
I show I show it to my students each year. So which character the
Jewel? Yeah, it's a Paul Walter Paul Walter Houser. Yeah he's and
by the way, I know him because like him. So he and I
share something in common. Yeah, we're both children of Missouri s and and
Lutheran pastors. There you go. I think he is. He's a PK
fantastic fantastic actor. I agree. I watched him in on an Apple show
whose name I can't remember. Played a killer. He was a maid.
Yeah, so I watched that. Oh here's another thing I watch. Did
you ever get nominated for an oscar for Richard Jewel because he should have he
probably probably, yeah, probably, yeah, I don't know. Okay,
Okay. Sometimes in my like you, when you watch them on YouTube,
you get all these things on the side and you're sucked in and all that.
Well, one of them was Architectural Digest has this thing where they visit
like celebrity homes that can invite you into their homes. And I'm hooked on
that right now. The way these people live. Yeah, especially I saw
Ray Romano's house. That was an excellent one. So okay, I'm hooked
on that. That's all I have is a musical suggestion. I really haven't
mean, I know we were going somewhere with that more No, no,
okay, just fill in space here for things to say on culture. Just
my musical recommendation this week is ty Siegel is the guy's name. He plays
like garage kind of rat like retro stuff and he's he's really uh he puts
out a lot of stuff, but it's good stuff. That's all I have.
Well that's that was great. No, I have like nothing, and
I'm sorry. Oh wait, I will say this is my cultural thing.
I was really busy this fall, and so my youngest had requested that we
do more museums in DC, kind of like we used to, and so
I took the kids to the Smithsonian Museum of American History, which I hadn't
been to in a really long time. And I hated that museum. I
mean, it was really cool. Have you been there? Probably I went
to all of them years ago. Okay, So first and foremost, I
would just say it was not a lot of information. And I don't want
to be overloaded with information. I don't want to have to read a lot,
but like, you can convey a lot of information in the high quality
museum, and I just didn't like it was conveying information or doing it in
a way that made sense. Okay, So that's one thing. It just
seemed also like low quality, Like it didn't seem like the exhibits were put
together very well. There was a Richard Avedon little exhibit that did not prioritize
photography, but big quotes of left wing insanity, and the photos were not
well lit, they were not well displayed, and I'm just like, I
can take a lot of liberal idiocy, but give me something worth looking at.
And then we sort of ended with the part where you get to talk
about entertainment and stuff like that, and like there was a Prince guitar,
you know, which is exciting. And most of that exhibit was about like
hating America and I'm just sick of the America hatred. I am so sick
to death of the America hatred. And it was oozing throughout this Museum of
American History and how evil and awful, and I just was done with it.
And then also it was like a high privilege placed on left wing political
activism and very low privilege put on the right. I mean, I really
had a not great time. So I'm hoping the rest of our museum tour
will go better than the Museum of American History, which I would not really
I would encourage, like, if you're going, just go check out the
ruby slippers. Get out, no need to waste time. I've noticed that
in Williamsburg, Virginia museums as well, or like where there's this like guilt
stricken subtext to everything all of a sudden, do you know what I'm saying?
Like it's like interwoven with stuff that should just be innocuous about, like
how people lived in colonial times, but now all of a sudden, like
slavery has to be mentioned every like you know, second sign. And it
just seems like a like like someone felt really guilty about something and decided to
go in and change everything, you know. And I wonder if this is
going on everywhere in museums. I bet you it is. Yeah, I
don't. I went to the Museum of the Confederacy or whatever it was in
Richmond, and it didn't seem that bad. I mean, there, I
definitely heard from some people who were like, oh, that's way too anti
Confederacy or whatever. But I'm pretty anti Confederacy, so it wasn't really a
huge problem. But even that didn't seem so preachy. It seemed like you
were kind of getting like an accurate reflection on what the war was like different
people. And I'm like, I know enough to know that I don't like
the Confederacy. I don't need it like pounded into me. Yeah. Yeah,
well, just like I kind of feel like when we were younger,
one of the fun things to do would be to go to an exhibit which
was like a raw raw America exhibit, and then you could kind of like
quietly with your friends be like, I noticed they didn't mention this, you
know, but you're doing it on the side, right than that be the
thing that you're kind of sniping about being like the centerpiece of the exhibit,
which is just a really good way to ruin a country and civic health.
I mean, yeah, I just want an honest rendering of what went on
whatever I'm talking about, But there's no need, Yeah, there's no need
to like accentuate always accentuate how bad people supposedly were, which reminds me quickly
if I can mention, I've been reading a book on my phone, so
I have different kind of like things I'm reading at the same time. But
it's called Empire of the Summer Moon. If you heard of this book,
yeah, yeah, So it's about the Commanche Indians and the fight against them,
and I am really personalll izing. The book's excellent, but I'm really
taken aback by how honest they are about how just violent and terrible the Commandchee
Indians were this kind of thing even growing up. You would never really hear
when I was a kid, you know. And I really recommend that book
pretty highly if people are interested in that topic. All Right, anything else?
You've been busy, So not a lot of movie watching? Huh,
I'm traveling a lot. But I really hope to watch something. Actually I
did, I did watch something. Sorry it's not. I rewatched for like
the tenth time, My Cousin Vinnie, which I think is a really good
film. Oh yeah, I love I rewatched that movie every time I see
it pop up. I love it. I'm rewatching The Sopranos now. Actually
I should say for the twelve time. Yeah. Yeah, My Cousin Vinnie
is very funny, and it's like it's a perfect perfect I think Mursa Tomey
won an Oscar. It's a perfect example of how you can or was nominated,
I forget, but it's a perfect example of how you can have something
that has wide ranging appeal, that is funny and well made, and that
achieves what it wants to do in a really like high quality way, and
that we can all like, you know, a lot of people can like
and I like the weird like movies. I like them. But you can't
have that all the time, right right, some of people want I could
people what they want. That is the that is the that is the out
of this podcast. Yeah, David Hersani populist. You got to give the
people what they want. Anyway, Nice speaking to you, Molly, and
we'll be back next week. Until them do Lovers of Freedom and Anxious for the Fray