WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:05.080 President Trump is convicted. What does it mean? How did it happen? 2 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:10.039 The legal Johnny Girardi breakdown right here for you. All right, So let's 3 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:15.439 talk about this. And I think the first thing I want to discuss is 4 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:24.800 the Grand Democrat plan with all of this. What was the plan? I 5 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:29.760 think it was pretty transparent based on the timing of everything. Is all this 6 00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:38.560 different? These different charges all got dropped at very similar times. Here was 7 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:44.520 the timing, here was the idea. Basically, I think the Biden folks, 8 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:51.159 the pro Biden folks, who were overseeing the filing of these charges. 9 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:58.520 And let's understand that the people overseeing the filing of these charges are all Democrat 10 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:07.200 political people. They're either Democrat political appointees or Democrat Democrat elected officials. These 11 00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:11.760 are people who are political Okay. These are not like, this isn't John 12 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:19.519 Roberts, Okay, this isn't a judge who is outside of the political branches 13 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:26.239 of government. Okay. These are elected political officials or political appointees. And 14 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:34.079 those two people are Merrick Garland, the Attorney General, a political appointee, 15 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:40.079 and Alvin Bragg, an elected partisan Democrat, a guy who ran as a 16 00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:47.400 Democrat in Manhattan for the District attorney seat, and their thought process was basically, 17 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:51.519 this, the twenty twenty four election is coming up. It's in November 18 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:57.680 of twenty twenty four, so the Republican primary process begins at this time, 19 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:09.240 once the primaries start. We want Donald Trump to be Joe Biden's opponent in 20 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:15.560 the primary. All the conventional wisdom was that Trump would be a weak opponent 21 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:23.039 for Joe Biden in twenty twenty four, and especially if there was something they 22 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:29.199 could get Trump for legally, some kind of crime that they could plausibly charge 23 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:34.919 now at the federal level, Merrick Garland overseeing it. That was the mar 24 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:39.560 A Lago documents case, stuff surrounding January sixth, That was the main thing. 25 00:02:42.599 --> 00:02:45.280 Also, you have Fanny Willis, the District Attorney of Fulton County, 26 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:51.960 Georgia, another partisan elected Democrat official. Okay, so they all file their 27 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:58.879 charges against Trump at roughly the same time, around the time of the Republican 28 00:02:58.919 --> 00:03:02.800 primaries starting. Republican primaries get kicked off. Ronda Santis is in the race. 29 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:07.039 Ronda Santis is the new hot young thing. Everyone's oh, what does 30 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:09.800 Ronda Santis have to say? Oh, he's launching his campaign on Twitter with 31 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:15.240 Elon Musk Andla Ronda Santis is like, you know, mister, everyone's very 32 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:21.280 enthusiastic for Ronda Santis. And it's almost immediately after Ronda Santis gets into the 33 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:30.120 race that these charges start coming down against Trump. The January sixth charges, 34 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:35.360 the mar A Lago charges, the Manhattan charge, and the Manhattan The Manhattan 35 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:39.639 DA's case was the first one to come in, and the Manhattan DA's case 36 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:44.000 is, of all of the cases that Donald Trump is facing, I think, 37 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:50.520 objectively speaking, the weakest. His indictment it wasn't even complete. He 38 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:57.039 didn't even state, and the judge ultimately throughout the trial never ever specified what 39 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:01.080 exactly the crime was. It was. He was charged with thirty four counts 40 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:11.759 of falsifying business records in furtherance of a felony. What felony It wasn't specified 41 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:19.319 in It wasn't specified in the original charging documents. And the judge himself and 42 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.839 his instructions to the jury said, well, you might think that the felony, 43 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:28.279 you might think that the other crime was a violation of federal election law. 44 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:32.120 You might think that the other crime was a violation of New York election 45 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:38.319 law. Or you might think that the other crime was the filing of more 46 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:44.240 fraudulent business records, and forgers could think one thing, and forgers could think 47 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:47.040 another, and the forgers could think the third. It doesn't matter. According 48 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:49.319 to the judge, it did not matter. Now I think according to the 49 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:54.680 law, it pretty darn well matters what it is this other thing that you're 50 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:58.279 charging. It mattered as far as the statute of limitations for the relevant New 51 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:03.519 York law at issue. It mattered as far as from a constitutional perspective, 52 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:11.439 Trump's defense being able to prepare for the defense. You're being charged with falsifying 53 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:15.560 business records in furtherance of another crime. Well, what's the other crime that 54 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:20.800 we were allegedly falsefying business records for? That needs to be specified so that 55 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:26.560 we can defend our client. And instead it was this sort of mishmash of, 56 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:30.959 well, maybe he violated New York election law, with no definitive ruling 57 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:35.319 that Trump had violated New York election laws, maybe he violated federal election laws, 58 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:41.199 no ruling ever that Trump had violated federal election law. And in fact, 59 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:46.279 both the Southern District of New York the federal prosecutors in Manhattan and the 60 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:55.839 Federal Elections Commission had examined Trump to see if he violated federal election law and 61 00:05:55.959 --> 00:06:04.879 declined to press any charges or take any actions against him. So, regardless, 62 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:11.879 Bragg's indictment was the weakest of all the indictments Trump is faced. I 63 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:17.360 think, and a lot of other legal observers think similarly. But he drops 64 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:20.720 this indictment right when the primary starts, and what does it do. It 65 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:31.079 naturally angers the Republican primary voting base and makes them say they want to take 66 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:38.759 Trump out. Screw them, We're going to stick with our guy. And 67 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:42.959 I don't think the Republican there are some people in the Republican base who maybe 68 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:47.279 are a little don't like DeSantis, but DeSantis is still a very popular Republican 69 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:53.079 figure. It wasn't so much people hating DeSantis. It was people saying, 70 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:56.199 well, you know what, I'm sticking with Trump. He's the known factor. 71 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:58.480 When he was president, things were pretty good in this country. I'm 72 00:06:58.519 --> 00:07:08.040 sticking with him. And so as every new indictment that came down against Trump, 73 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:14.519 his poll numbers would bump, his fundraising would bump, and Trump cruised 74 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:23.319 to an easy primary win over DeSantis and Nikki Haley and all the rest. 75 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:32.480 So that was I think precisely what the Democrats wanted. They wanted to press 76 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:40.000 the charges during the primary system anger Republicans so much that they actually pick Trump 77 00:07:40.279 --> 00:07:44.519 to be the nominee. And now that he's locked in as the nominee and 78 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:54.040 we can't really change course at this point, get him convicted. So now 79 00:07:54.040 --> 00:08:01.360 that we're stuck with Trump, he's convicted and we can't we don't have the 80 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:05.920 opportunity to bring in run to Santis. Now Trump's already locked in as the 81 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:11.079 nominee. We're done. We're done in the sense that it's not like we 82 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:16.759 can pick anyone else at this point. And so what Democrats are banking on 83 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:20.439 is now that Republicans are stuck with Trump, Trump will be a convicted felon 84 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:24.480 and there is no way that Donald Trump can win the election as a convicted 85 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:33.679 felon. And that's maybe where the calculus by the left may go astray. 86 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:41.000 I think Trump can still win. I think he very well might still win. 87 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:46.840 I've gotten a lot of questions from people basically asking, like, you 88 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:50.799 know, can Trump, you know, can Trump still run? Is? 89 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:56.360 What does this mean? Practically? Practically? Trump can still run for president. 90 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:00.840 It's not like being convicted of this felony in New York that does not 91 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:07.399 bar him from running for president of the United States. So he still can 92 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:16.960 run. And all of the intelligent things, all the intelligent attorneys I'm hearing 93 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:22.679 who are looking at this. It's actually kind of an interesting YouTube video. 94 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:24.720 One of my law school professors sent it to me. A woman who's a 95 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.039 public defender in New York, and she was talking about, like, what 96 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.440 are the odds of Donald Trump actually serving any jail time? And her best 97 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:35.519 guess, Now, this is a New York public defender, so I'm gonna 98 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.080 go out on a limb and guess that she's not a Trump voter. But 99 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:43.600 her assessment of it, and what I've heard from people, is that Trump 100 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:48.080 is unlikely to go to jail in spite of the fact that these are felonies 101 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:54.759 that could carry the max sentences you can get are very very high. Okay, 102 00:09:54.799 --> 00:10:00.320 So I mean these are He was convicted of thirty four felonies for which 103 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:05.720 the max sentence for all thirty four it's four years apiece, So four four 104 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:07.600 six carry the one we're talking one hundred and thirty six years in jail. 105 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:13.039 He's not gonna do that. He's not going to spend the rest of his 106 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:18.159 life in prison. He may not go to jail at all. So it 107 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:22.159 has to do with the fact that these are non violent felonies, and according 108 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.039 to how they're classified in New York law, it's the fact that Trump has 109 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:33.480 no prior criminal record. He may not even get probation. Honestly, now, 110 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:45.480 sentencings coming up in July, and this judge who has overseen this trial 111 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:52.879 and who has been so unbelievably biased the whole time against Trump and I And 112 00:10:52.919 --> 00:10:54.720 by the way, in case you're just thinking, you know, talk radio 113 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:58.480 power talk, John Gerardi is just being a chill for Trump. Listen, 114 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:03.240 I'm gonna call and strikes here. I've called balls and strikes with Trump's legal 115 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:07.679 woes the whole time. I have always said I thought that the mar a 116 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:13.320 Lago indictment had a lot of weight to it. I think it's pretty clear 117 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:18.399 that Trump was misusing, you know, storing inappropriately all those documents that he 118 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:24.159 kept in mar Lago, and that he didn't actually declassify them, and that 119 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:26.720 he didn't have a right to have them at his house. I have always 120 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:31.080 said I thought that was very strong, and I've been critical of various other 121 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:37.720 Trump legal escapades before. I think that a lot of the stop the steel 122 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:43.320 stuff after the November twenty twenty was flimsy, and he had his stuff that 123 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.320 was being said in press conferences didn't match up with the stuff that his lawyers 124 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:50.799 were actually saying in court. Look, I'm not just a shill for Trump 125 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:56.240 here, I'm not just carrying water, but I will say this, I 126 00:11:56.279 --> 00:12:07.360 think the conduct of the judge, Judge Murchon was unbelievably biased and unbelievably inappropriate. 127 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:13.679 I think it's highly likely, frankly, that Trump's conviction is going to 128 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:18.360 be overturned on appeal. But that again brings us back to the politics, 129 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:22.919 the big broad scheme of this. What does Biden really want out of all 130 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:28.240 of this? What do Biden's political operatives? Who did this? And I'm 131 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:33.960 not saying that Biden openly connived with Garland to get Trump convicted. I'm sure 132 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:39.639 he made sure there was a buffer. I'm sure Biden didn't directly communicate with 133 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:41.399 Alvin Bragg about this. I'm sure there was a buffer. Maybe they didn't 134 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:46.080 even need to discuss it, they just Bragg just knows what's politically helpful for 135 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:52.960 Biden, and he just does it. What they want is the ability between 136 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:58.360 now an election day. Trump might Is Trump going to go to jail? 137 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:03.519 Probably not. It seems like if things follow suit for how most of this 138 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:05.879 stuff is handled in New York law most of the time. No, I 139 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:13.519 don't think he will. What Biden wants is the ability, is the ability 140 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:18.120 between now an election day for the next five months to say, Donald Trump 141 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:24.039 convicted felon, Donald Trump convicted felon, Donald Trump, convicted felon. Donald 142 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:28.679 Trump's new name, according to the media, will be Donald Trump convicted felon, 143 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:35.080 Donald Trump, a convicted felon, the former president of the United States 144 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:39.200 who was convicted of thirty four felam accounts of blah blah blah. That will 145 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:43.840 be how Donald Trump is referred to in every news story from now until election 146 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.919 day. That is how Joe Biden will refer to Donald Trump every single time 147 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:52.120 he opens his mouth. His handlers will train him to say that. And 148 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:56.360 that's what this is all about. It doesn't matter how inappropriately the Judge ac 149 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:03.039 did. It doesn't matter how I think unconstitutionally the Judge Act, the Constitutional 150 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:07.639 problems with not affording Trump's defense a legitimate opportunity to defend itself by not even 151 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:18.759 specifying the crime that Trump committed. It doesn't matter the number of things that 152 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:24.559 merited a mistrial during the case that the judge allowed in. None of that 153 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:28.440 matters. How it doesn't matter the high likelihood that this thing will be overturned 154 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.679 on appeal. It won't be overturned on appeal for another year. The election 155 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:37.840 will be over. If Trump appeals this and wins his appeal, it won't 156 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:48.639 be till twenty twenty five. The important thing is Biden's ability from now until 157 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:54.120 November to say Donald Trump convicted felon, and that's the Democrat's whole strategy. 158 00:14:54.360 --> 00:15:00.320 File these indictments right as the Republican primary start tick off. If all the 159 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:03.120 Republicans so much that they all vote for Trump, ensure that Trump wins the 160 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:09.799 primary, then have the trials in twenty twenty four before election day, get 161 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:16.679 Trump convicted and throw the republic and throw the election into chaos, maybe by 162 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:22.440 putting Trump actually having Trump actually being physically incarcerated or limited in his movement. 163 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:28.000 And if not that at the very least to be able to say for five 164 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:35.799 months, Donald Trump convicted felon. That's what they want and that's what they 165 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:43.519 got. When we return, is Donald Trump convicted felon actually going to change 166 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:46.519 the minds of the electric very much. That's next on The John Girardi Show. 167 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:54.720 Twitter dot com, slash Fresno Johnny at Fresno Johnny on Twitter if you 168 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:58.559 want to check me out and my short form thoughts and ramblings and rants. 169 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:07.399 I posted a video I retweeted a video there from Eliza Orleans, who's a 170 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:12.080 public defender in New York, talking about the likelihood of Trump being said, 171 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:18.919 the likelihood of whether Trump will actually serve any time in jail, and one 172 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.519 way or another, her her opinion is that he will not serve even a 173 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.919 day in jail, that he probably won't even get probation. So check out 174 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:30.039 her opinion. She's, you know, a public defender from New York. 175 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:33.360 I'm gonna guess she's not. You know, she doesn't have a MAGA hat 176 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:40.080 in her closet. So I thought it was a pretty pretty interesting perspective from 177 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:45.440 someone who is more neutral about this than you know, your average Joe Republican 178 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:51.600 would be. Now, as I've been saying, I think the big plan 179 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:59.120 throughout for the Democrats was indict Trump right after the Republican primary start. And 180 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:00.000 I say that, by the way, because they could have brought a lot 181 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.000 of these indictments years ago, or you know, they could have brought a 182 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:07.400 lot of these indictments in twenty twenty two or late in twenty twenty one. 183 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:15.400 They chose to bring them in late twenty twenty three so that the trials would 184 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:19.839 take place here in twenty twenty four, so that the timing thing was clearly 185 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:30.440 a strategic thing to have maximal impact on the election. The idea was indict 186 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:33.640 Trump at the start of the Republican primary season, tick off Republicans enough that 187 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:40.599 they all vote for Trump, lock him in as the nominee, then have 188 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:45.839 the trials in twenty twenty four in the midst of the election cycle. Trump 189 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:52.640 gets convicted and either maybe he's incarcerated again. Sounds like there's a very decent 190 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.440 argument that Trump won't be incarcerated, won't serve any jail time, or at 191 00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:00.160 the very least that Biden will be able to say, Donald Trum, I'm 192 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.799 convicted felon from now until election day, and that will cause Donald Trump to 193 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:08.160 lose because the American people would never vote for someone who's a convicted felon. 194 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:21.559 Would they would they That's the that is the gamble that Democrats are hinging this 195 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:30.319 whole election cycle on that there's no way a convicted felon can get elected president. 196 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:37.480 There's no way that anyone with a felony conviction could convince enough Americans to 197 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:42.960 vote for him to get two hundred and seventy Electoral College votes. There's just 198 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:52.079 no way it can happen. I wonder, I am just not sure that 199 00:18:52.079 --> 00:19:03.200 that is true. I don't know that that is the case, and it's 200 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:11.319 because of the unique weakness of Joe Biden. Biden has just been a terrible 201 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:15.599 president, and the economy is really rough on a ton of people right now 202 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:22.920 under his watch. And even if the economy is doing better in some factors, 203 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:27.200 maybe the stock market's getting better, maybe the rate of inflation is slowed, 204 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:30.240 I mean, the fact remains that everything's still way more expensive than it 205 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:37.359 was four years ago. And we're not like getting a reversal. It's not 206 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:40.240 like the price of ground beef is going to go back down to the price 207 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:41.960 that it was four years ago. It's never gonna go back down. We're 208 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:52.039 stuck here at this unsustainably high cost of living. People are still feeling the 209 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.640 pinch all over the place. The cost of everything is too much. And 210 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:04.599 Biden ranks terribly when you do opinion polling of Americans. Biden does worse on 211 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:12.079 every single issue, with the exception of abortion. Trump is beating Biden on 212 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:17.000 who do you think handled the economy better? Trump? Who do you think 213 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:19.759 handled foreign policy better? Trump? Who do you think handled this better? 214 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:23.119 Trump? Who do you think handled that better? Trump? Trump is kicking 215 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:33.759 Biden's butt on every single issue, with the exception of abortion. And I 216 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:38.519 don't know that this conviction changes that. I don't think it changes any of 217 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:42.680 that. If people are still going to vote with the economy high on their 218 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:52.079 mind, how does this conviction change it. It's also this that you know, 219 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:00.319 is anyone really coming up with a novel idea of what they think about 220 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.640 Joe Biden or Donald Trump? Like, does anyone think, well, this 221 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:08.359 is it? Like like this is the breaking point for someone's Trump support? 222 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:15.279 No. I think, if anything, there's enough media coverage or indications out 223 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:22.359 there of how biased this trial was to make people even more hardened to vote 224 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:26.079 for Trump. I saw there was a you know, Fox News polls, 225 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:33.359 or you know, Fox News polls aren't necessarily always accurate, but they did 226 00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:37.000 a poll of Republican voters. Eighty seven percent. It was basically something like 227 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:45.799 sixty something percent of people their opinion on Trump was unchanged. Sixteen percent said 228 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:48.559 it made them more likely to vote for him, sixteen percent made it less 229 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:55.240 likely to vote for him. I mean, I don't know that it's changing. 230 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:57.039 I don't think it's moving the needle all that much. I mean, 231 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:02.599 everything I have thought about Trump, good or bad, remains the same. 232 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:06.119 After this trial. It doesn't affect me at all. I think the whole 233 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:12.079 trial was a complete sham. I'm not affected. So and I guess I 234 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:18.440 just wonder, is there really anyone left in the United States of America after 235 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:22.240 the last nine years of talking about Donald Trump pretty much non stop, is 236 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:27.880 there anyone in the United States of America who has failed to formulate yet their 237 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:33.200 opinion of Donald Trump. I don't know that that is the case. When 238 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:37.799 we return, we'll talk a little bit more about the details of the case, 239 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:40.599 what it was about, what it was presented that it was about, 240 00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:44.720 how people misunderstood it, including the jury. Why I blame the judge far 241 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:49.480 more than the jury. That's next on the John Drardy Show. So Trump 242 00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:56.880 was convicted today, What was he actually charged with? This is an interesting 243 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:06.319 question and one I think where the judge's instructions to the jury were highly unclear 244 00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:12.480 the whole time. What was Trump actually charged with? Was he charged with 245 00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:26.279 illegal hush money payments? New he was charged with falsifying business records in furtherance 246 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:33.160 of another crime. So let's talk about that. Because the way the media 247 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:38.920 portrayed this throughout, and frankly, the way the judge portrayed it to the 248 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:48.400 jurors, you would think that this trial is about hush money payments. I'm 249 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:52.599 here to tell you that hush money payment is not a thing. It's not 250 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:59.920 a crime, certainly, So what do we mean by a hush money payments? 251 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.799 Specifically? In this case, we're talking about Donald Trump, he's running 252 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:12.799 for president, and Stormy Daniels, a former playboy model with whom it seemed 253 00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:19.799 allegedly Trump had an affair with this woman. Now, did Trump actually have 254 00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:25.160 an affair with her or not? Unclear? Trump continues to maintain he did 255 00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:30.000 not, which, frankly I don't know that that helped him too much, 256 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:33.400 because I think he looked like a liar to the jury saying that he didn't. 257 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.119 A lot of the evidence would seem to indicate that he did. And 258 00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:40.319 I think the jury, you know, hearing Trump and his legal team, 259 00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:42.720 and clearly his legal team was doing this at Trump's insistence, was still acting 260 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:47.960 as though Trump had never had a sexual relationship with this woman. And I 261 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.680 think the jury was probably rolling their eyes at this, as you know, 262 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.680 a lot of America is that, you know, hey, maybe Trump is 263 00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:02.599 innocent, but there's a lot of evidence kind of point towards the distinct possibility 264 00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:04.720 that he did, in fact have an affair with this woman. Now, 265 00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:15.680 so Trump denies it regardless, Stormy Daniels goes to Trump's people and says, 266 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.160 I want to go public with this story that I had an affair with you, 267 00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:27.640 and Trump is trying to get her to not tell this story in the 268 00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:33.279 midst of the twenty sixteen election cycle, and also not only could it be 269 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.759 damaging to him politically, but also for his marriage. I mean, it's 270 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:41.119 because the allegation is that she had an affair with him right after his son 271 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.480 Baron was born, it would probably be quite disruptive and destructive to his marriage 272 00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:53.519 if this story became public. So Trump has this setup with the publisher of 273 00:25:53.559 --> 00:26:00.000 the National Inquirer, who's a friend and an ally, and with Michael Cohen, 274 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:03.960 who was Trump's personal attorney represented Trump in a number of things over the 275 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:15.319 years. Basically that Trump would pay to secure non disclosure agreements from these women 276 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:18.079 saying that they would not tell their story publicly, that they would sell the 277 00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:25.359 rights to their story exclusively to the National Inquirer. Trump would reimburse National Inquirer. 278 00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:32.039 National Inquirer would pay the person coming forward with this embarrassing story. Okay, 279 00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:37.599 and I will concede to you that this whole setup is sleazy as hell. 280 00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:45.440 This is Trump trying to kill negative stories about him, as sleazy as 281 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:52.359 it all is. Though, this isn't illegal. Non disclosure agreements aren't illegal. 282 00:26:53.480 --> 00:27:00.480 Non disclosure agreements to cover up embarrassing stories about you are not illegal. 283 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:08.079 Non disclosure agreements to cover up embarrassing stories about you during an election are not 284 00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:14.000 illegal. The argument is, well, well, it's a it was a 285 00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:19.359 campaign expense, and he never he never reported it as a campaign expense. 286 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:29.960 No federal election law that defines the kinds of things that are campaign expenses and 287 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.240 the kinds of things that are not campaign expenses, and the kinds of things 288 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:38.160 you have to report to the Federal Elections Commission as campaign expenses. This is 289 00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:45.759 not a campaign expense in the traditional sense. Okay, paying for campaign adds 290 00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:52.119 on TV, that's a campaign expense. Paying for internal polling, paying for 291 00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:55.799 you know, polling data to help you with your campaign, that's an election 292 00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:59.640 expense. Stuff that would only exist, that does not exist, but for 293 00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:04.319 the campaign, that is a campaign expense. And it's noteworthy because the judge 294 00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:11.839 in this case very strongly indicated to the jury that almost as if it were 295 00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:17.799 established fact that a campaign finance violation happened here, and that just is not 296 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:26.039 established. Trump was not convicted, let alone. He wasn't even charged with 297 00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:33.480 any elections violations. And this is after the Federal Elections Commission and the federal 298 00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:38.160 prosecutors in New York both investigated Trump and declined to charge him with anything. 299 00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:42.680 So no, it has not been established that Trump committed any kind of elections 300 00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:55.200 violations whatsoever. So I agree it's sleazy as hell to pay off a porn 301 00:28:55.279 --> 00:29:00.119 star to ensure that she doesn't tell an embarrassing story about the affair that you, 302 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:04.279 guys head right after your wife just gave birth to your son. Pretty 303 00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:08.960 sure missus Girardi would be pretty ticked about it, understandably. So not a 304 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:11.960 thing I've ever done, not a thing I ever want to do, not 305 00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:17.799 not good Christian living by any extent. And if you think that that speaks 306 00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:23.519 to Donald Trump's character in a way that is politically disqualifying, I guess I'd 307 00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:30.200 have a hard time arguing with you. At the same time, it's not 308 00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:36.839 a crime, it's not illegal. You can you can you can say it's 309 00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:40.359 sleazy and bad till the cows come home. You can say he deceived the 310 00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:42.680 American people. He didn't allow the evidence of this story to come out before 311 00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:47.240 the election, you know, as if people didn't know that Donald Trump was 312 00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:52.799 a philanderer, As if that would have changed the outcome of New York's statewide 313 00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:57.160 election for president. Let's remember that the presidential election is on a state by 314 00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:02.160 state basis. Okay, it's not one big national popular vote. It's a 315 00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:07.519 state by state thing. Donald Trump lost New York handily in twenty sixteen. 316 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.759 This revelation wouldn't have changed the outcome of things. And yet it's New York's 317 00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:15.200 elections that Alvin Bragg as the DA of Manhattan has any kind of jurisdiction over 318 00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:22.319 all. Right, so Trump wasn't actually charged with hush money payments, which 319 00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:30.119 he is allowed to give. He was charged with falsifying business records. Why 320 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:38.160 well, because Trump basically here was the chain of things. Michael Cohen pays 321 00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:44.200 Stormy Daniels. Stormy Daniels signs a non disclosure agreement with the National Inquirer, 322 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:47.960 gives National Acquirer exclusive rights to her story. She signs the National, she 323 00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:52.720 signs the non disclosure agreement. Michael Cohen pays Stormy Daniels under thirty thousand bucks. 324 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:55.880 He takes out a one himself. He pays her. So Trump's got 325 00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:04.359 to reimburse Cohen. And in Trump's books they call it payment of legal fees, 326 00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:14.880 when really, the argument goes it should have been labeled loan reimbursement. 327 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:27.039 Now what does that matter. That's a very good question. The charge Trump 328 00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:34.599 is facing here was fraudulently falsifying business records in furtherance of some other crime. 329 00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:41.680 That word fraud is important. Fraud doesn't just mean any kind of dishonesty. 330 00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:48.079 Fraud means basically a good shorthand for this is lying for money. All right, 331 00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:55.279 I'm applying for a home loan. I lie about my income to make 332 00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:59.400 it look like I make much more than I do. I get a nice, 333 00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:02.039 big, fear favorable loan based on the fact that I lied. That's 334 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:07.279 fraud, Okay, lying for money, lying for money or property or something 335 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:14.720 like that. Lying for money. What money did Trump get by lying? 336 00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:20.000 First of all, there's also a good threshold question whether it was a lie 337 00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:23.039 at all. Was it actually fair to classify this as legal fees? Trump 338 00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:27.200 was doing other legal stuff for Trump. There were other things that Trump was 339 00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:31.400 reimbursing him before that that would maybe more classically fit into legal fees. Was 340 00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:37.920 it actually even what was he actually were the Was this actually a misstatement of 341 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:44.279 what this was? There was also like practical factual questions about like the kind 342 00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:46.599 of QuickBooks esque system that the Trump corporation was using. They've had the same 343 00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:51.119 system since the nineties, had a kind of limited range of drop down options 344 00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:54.039 for how to classify some of these payments, which, by the way, 345 00:32:54.200 --> 00:33:00.119 having Trump convicted of thirty four counts, it was like the check itself well, 346 00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:07.480 plus the invoice over the course of a year's worth of monthly installment payments, 347 00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:15.279 and somehow that that's how they got to thirty four felony counts for basically 348 00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:22.920 one act really of Trump reimbursing Cohen for one hundred thirty thousand bucks. So 349 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:27.000 was it even was it even inaccurate? Unclear? Was it fraudulent? Also 350 00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:30.440 unclear? Who was bilked out of money? What extra money did Trump get 351 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:35.640 out of this? Actually Trump had to spend way more because, basically, 352 00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:43.319 because they labeled attorney's fees rather than debt reimbursement, Cohen was going to have 353 00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:45.440 to pay taxes on it. Okay, if I loan you fifty thousand dollars 354 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:47.799 and you give it back to me, well, that fifty thousand dollars I 355 00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:52.400 get back, I don't get taxed on that. But if I just make 356 00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:57.279 fifty thousand dollars an income, I get taxed on it. So, because 357 00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:00.400 it was coming to Cohen as legal fees, Cohen and said, hey, 358 00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:02.000 I'm gonna have to pay taxes on this. You got to gross me up 359 00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:07.519 so that I'm not losing money here. So Trump actually wound up paying Cohen 360 00:34:07.239 --> 00:34:16.239 double. So it's not like the taxpayers got built. The taxpayers actually got 361 00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:22.760 more revenue out of this whole thing. So was it falsified business records? 362 00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:25.159 No, I don't think so. Was it fraudulent falsification of business records, 363 00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:30.800 No, I don't think so. Was it in furtherance of some other felony, 364 00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:31.440 No, I don't think so. I don't think there was a federal 365 00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:35.559 elections violation. I don't think there was a New York elections violation. I 366 00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:40.039 don't think I think it's circular to say it was in furtherance of other falsified 367 00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:52.880 records. I just think every step of the way this was not a case 368 00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:58.000 that should have been brought, and it's not a case where Trump should have 369 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:04.480 been convicted. But I think the instructions that the judge gave to the jury, 370 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:07.079 the kind of evidence he let in, the kind of evidence he excluded, 371 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:15.480 the kind of prejudicial evidence that he allowed in, was so biased that 372 00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:21.280 I think the jurors almost were forced to no other conclusion than to convict Trump 373 00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:24.840 because the judge so badly misstated the law didn't allow in evidence that was exculpatory 374 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:30.960 to Trump. I think I honestly don't even blame the jurors for this. 375 00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:38.000 I think the judge was so out of bounds that I mean, I don't 376 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:39.960 even know what I would have done on I think if I were on the 377 00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:44.239 jury, I might have voted to convict if I was receiving all the same 378 00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:49.559 jury instructions, etc. From this judge. All right, when we returned, 379 00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:52.840 maybe the big picture question what does this mean for the country? That's 380 00:35:52.840 --> 00:36:00.000 next on the John Girardi Show, What does Trump's conviction mean for the country. 381 00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:07.079 I don't know that I have a great big picture question other than I 382 00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:12.480 think it's just open law, fair season, and I think we've crossed a 383 00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:19.800 line that we're never going to be able to uncross again. You know what, 384 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:24.239 I've read a lot about the Roman Revolution, and the Roman Revolution was 385 00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:35.159 basically the one hundred year or so transition of Rome from a republic to a 386 00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:39.639 monarchical form of government, from the Roman Republic to the Roman Empire, and 387 00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:51.960 how basically the beginning of that change was the new precedent setting violations of the 388 00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:55.119 most majorum as the Romans called it, the way of the ancestors. The 389 00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:00.679 Roman Constitution was not a written constitution. It was sort of oral tradition and 390 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:06.199 the tradition of how we've always done things the most mayorum, the habits of 391 00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:07.679 our elders, the habits of our ancestors, the way of our ancestors. 392 00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:16.119 That was how their system worked. And you had a couple of politicians in 393 00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:22.000 the late second century AD who started doing things differently, who tried to do 394 00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:28.559 things by bypassing the Senate. The Roman Senate was kind of a different thing 395 00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:31.920 from the US Senate. How it worked was much more complicated and sort of 396 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:37.159 different, but basically they sort of buck tradition in order to get legislation passed. 397 00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:39.880 Some of the Graky brothers, who were this very ambitious pair of aristocratic 398 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:45.039 brothers, were trying to get legislation passed of various kinds and were stymied by 399 00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:46.559 the Senate, and so tried to bypass the Senate in a way that was 400 00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:52.000 counter to the normal way that things were done. And this resulted in people 401 00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:58.719 responding to the Gracqy brothers violently and introducing violence into Roman politics, which would 402 00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:02.679 never leave Roman politics ever again. Once violence was introduced as a possible solution 403 00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:09.400 for political problems, it was impossible to get it out. I think now 404 00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:16.760 that we've introduced law fair that we prosecute our political enemies. I think this 405 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:21.679 is going to be with us to stay. Trump's the first American president to 406 00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:25.079 be convicted of a felony. He is not going to be the last that'll 407 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:28.119 do it. John Jilady Show, See you next time on Power Talk.