1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,960 The Red Wings are home this week. Tuesday has half price tickets and Thurman 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:09,439 Thomas signs autographs. Wednesday features a jersey giveaway. Thursday is a business Person 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,400 special at eleven h five am. Or tickets visit Redwings Baseball dot Com, 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,160 Btb's wood Fire Pizza and Grill in the Mulich, Greece ritche. In this 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,679 episode, I speak one on one with retired Saint John Fisher, Professor of 6 00:00:21,679 --> 00:00:26,920 political science, doctor James Bowers about the announcement by President Joe Biden dropping out 7 00:00:27,079 --> 00:00:31,800 of the twenty twenty four presidential race. I will say that the docs analysis 8 00:00:31,839 --> 00:00:35,880 of this historic situation and what's unfolding within the Democratic Party is some of the 9 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,840 best you're going to hear. But the conversation does drift and biases sneak in. 10 00:00:41,119 --> 00:00:45,759 Yet I say some of the best political conversation you may hear today. 11 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:50,240 It's all coming up right after this RV Enthusiasts July. And you know what 12 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,960 that means. It's Model year end clearance month at Myers RV. That's right, 13 00:00:55,240 --> 00:01:00,119 all fifteen Myers RV locations are making room for the new twenty twenty five 14 00:01:00,159 --> 00:01:04,480 models. Everything's gotta go lowest prices of the year on all closeout models. 15 00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:08,879 We're talking travel trailers, fifth wheels, and motor homes, all priced for 16 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,400 immediate delivery. You can shot the best deals from the nation's leading manufacturer's Grand 17 00:01:14,439 --> 00:01:18,959 Design Winnebago, Jacob Brinkley, Keystone, Forest River, and Thor. Myers 18 00:01:19,079 --> 00:01:23,079 RV has them all. 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Now your old career gives you lemons throwing some ice, 27 00:02:02,079 --> 00:02:08,680 mix in some vodka colored A podcast from the Mac of All Trade studio 28 00:02:08,719 --> 00:02:15,039 in Fairport and driven by Victor Chrysler Dots Jeep Ram. It's Billified the Bill 29 00:02:15,159 --> 00:02:37,639 Moran Podcast. Well, hello and welcome. I wasn't planning to do a 30 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,680 podcast today because I'm not feeling well. I don't know if anybody else has 31 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:46,599 gotten knocked out by this virus, but man, it is kicked my just 32 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,400 kick my ass. I don't like to get my ass kicked. It's been 33 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,840 a while, but this has kicked my ass. I have not really left 34 00:02:53,879 --> 00:03:00,879 a bed or a couch since sometime on Wednesday, well Thursday, and I 35 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:07,240 did go get the covid RSV flu test all negative, but god, this 36 00:03:07,439 --> 00:03:13,159 just kicked my ass. And then it was announced today that President Biden is 37 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,080 dropping out of the twenty twenty four race, and I thought, okay, 38 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,800 we got to get somebody on to talk about this, and who better And 39 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,639 you can see on the screen. Then my friend doctor James Bowers, he 40 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:30,120 is a retired professor of political science and pre law advisor at S. John 41 00:03:30,159 --> 00:03:36,680 Fisher University, and send, I'm sort of by myself doing this. We're 42 00:03:36,719 --> 00:03:38,520 going to be calling him live as we do it. Now he knows that 43 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:44,680 our call is coming, but this is a pretty historic day in American history, 44 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:46,319 and what does it mean as we move forward? So we'll find out 45 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:51,960 from doctor James Bowers. Hello, doctor Bowers, Hey, hello Bill. 46 00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:55,199 I apologize for my tardiness, but I was trying to get all things set 47 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:03,199 up technologically on this end here. No problem, You're you're on Uh, 48 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:09,159 you're on time. I'm a building. I uh, well, I wasn't. 49 00:04:09,159 --> 00:04:11,319 I was here early, and I was trying to say and then of 50 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,879 course, you know, with these big windows, as you've been in the 51 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,519 studio, people stop by and need to talk, and I'm going, hey, 52 00:04:16,639 --> 00:04:23,079 I gotta go. Uh. But I just introduced you as retired Professor 53 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,319 of Political Science and pre Law Advisor at Saint John Fisher University. But I 54 00:04:27,319 --> 00:04:30,040 don't know if there's anything else you'd like to add to that is author. 55 00:04:30,639 --> 00:04:34,920 You're an author as well. You're also a musician, songwriter. I mean, 56 00:04:35,079 --> 00:04:39,360 I think there's many talents here. Since this is a podcast, I 57 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,319 can say on it what I used to tell my students. I was, 58 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:48,399 Okay, what is that fucking brilliant? Yeah, not a good day for 59 00:04:48,399 --> 00:04:54,360 me to be laughing, but yeah, so I will try to be serious 60 00:04:54,399 --> 00:04:57,160 to close of the topic we want't talking about, Well, the topic we 61 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,360 want to talk about, I'll start here. In yourinion, how significant is 62 00:05:01,399 --> 00:05:05,720 today's announcement of President Joe Biden dropping out of the twenty twenty four race and 63 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:11,839 endorsing Vice President Kamala Harris as the party's new nominee. Well, we're going 64 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:17,319 to hear this word way too much if we haven't already today and for the 65 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,959 next few weeks. I think the word you want is his history and in 66 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:29,759 effect has never happened before. Right, not this way. No, this 67 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,240 is late in the race, where a month from the Democratic Convention. So 68 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:41,240 I'll ask you this, is it fair to say that technically, by all 69 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:46,519 laws, I believe technically there was no Democratic nominee for president at this time. 70 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,360 That is true because the delegates. No, that's my question. I'm 71 00:05:50,399 --> 00:05:54,319 glad to hear that, because the delegates, from what I understand, have 72 00:05:54,439 --> 00:05:58,439 not voted and planned to do so in either early August or at the latest 73 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,959 at the convention, with the domination then going to President Biden. Right, 74 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:08,079 and I may not follow things as closely as I used to before that word 75 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:15,360 retired entered my life and understood prefixed before everything I do but yes, I 76 00:06:15,399 --> 00:06:20,959 mean if people might recall in the news there was some effort there was going 77 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:28,079 to be an early virtual roll call before the convention to nominate Biden. Okay, 78 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:32,600 and a number and a number of well placed Democrats had started arguing about 79 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,160 delaying that, in other words, giving Biden more time to make up his 80 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:42,160 mind and hoping that might pressure him. So, I don't know if the 81 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,800 DNC, if it's the Executive Order, whoever would be the governing body there, 82 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:54,279 ultimately decided not to do that virtual role call. Now nothing prevents them 83 00:06:54,879 --> 00:07:01,839 from doing that in pursuit of a a new nominee, whether it's Terrist or 84 00:07:01,879 --> 00:07:13,040 someone else. And so so yes, I suspect though that is just me 85 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,240 spitball and saying I have a feeling now with where we are, they will 86 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:24,839 wait to the actual convention floor and spend a lot of time cutting what deals 87 00:07:24,879 --> 00:07:30,839 need to be cut, so you don't basically embarrass the first black woman and 88 00:07:31,079 --> 00:07:39,399 Asian woman from the nomination. Okay, Well, let me go back to 89 00:07:39,399 --> 00:07:43,160 this one thing with the delegates. Could there be just because we live in 90 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,000 this day and age, could there be any legal challenge coming from any state 91 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,959 because of this change on the ticket, even though there really wasn't a ticket 92 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,680 yet, I still feel like somewhere some there could be some sleight of hand 93 00:07:57,839 --> 00:08:03,439 or let's say a BS. I don't know, I am a great standing, 94 00:08:03,519 --> 00:08:07,160 grand standing, I'll call it. Let's qualify as you want to. 95 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:11,279 I am not a lawyer, and I'm particularly not an election lawyer. But 96 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,720 in today's political environment, yes, I have no doubt that some red state 97 00:08:16,759 --> 00:08:22,480 attorney general or something like that will file suit because they were gearing up for 98 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:30,319 Bide. You know, because if you recall a month or two ago, 99 00:08:30,439 --> 00:08:37,440 both Ohio and I think it was Alabama that was claiming Biden wouldn't be on 100 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:43,039 the ticket because I wouldn't be on the November ballot because our deadline for you 101 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:54,399 know, certifying your candidate is before okay, right now, election Both election 102 00:08:54,600 --> 00:09:03,120 law and party rules would have have obviously provisions for a candidate to be substituted, 103 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:09,720 you know. Let's say, and I want if candidate eight died before 104 00:09:09,879 --> 00:09:16,039 a certain point in time, a party can replace it, particularly if the 105 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,320 ballots haven't been you know, printed or whatever passes for printing now. So, 106 00:09:20,519 --> 00:09:26,240 but but your instincts, given this political environment, I will not be 107 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:31,679 surprised that some clown and rents. So I'm sorry, I'm joined my prejudice, 108 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,679 but I'm trying to be objective to there will be some red state clown 109 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:45,519 of an attorney general or the appropriate office, such as in Texas or Ohio. 110 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,360 You know it's likely to try a stuff like that. The courts will 111 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,519 swap it. The courts will swipe those down pretty fast. I think, 112 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,000 yeah, I would think so. I would think so too, only again, 113 00:09:56,039 --> 00:10:00,159 because the delegates hadn't nominated, so that there was no nomination at at 114 00:10:00,159 --> 00:10:05,759 this point. As for Kamala Harris, and as you pointed out, historic 115 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:13,159 in getting at least at this point leading for the Democratic nomination as not just 116 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,960 a woman, but an African American, an Asian woman, She's getting the 117 00:10:18,039 --> 00:10:22,679 endorsement of President Biden. She's getting the endorsement from what I understand at this 118 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:28,799 point was President Clinton and Secretary Clinton and some others, but they all seem 119 00:10:28,919 --> 00:10:33,120 to be the same people who were supporting Biden staying in the race as of 120 00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:39,559 yesterday. So go ahead, oh go, gret, let me not anticipate 121 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,440 your question, Go ahead and finish your question. Well, my question would 122 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:48,240 be, what about are there others in the party who seem to have somewhat 123 00:10:48,519 --> 00:10:56,440 some strength there in Pelosi or the Obamas or not coming out and saying anything 124 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:01,200 as of yet, And are there cracks of daylight for someone else to come 125 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,720 in and go Hang on a second, I don't care what your ethnic background 126 00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:09,039 is. Are you the best person for the job? Yeah? Well, 127 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,799 okay, there's a lot to unpack there. So let's start with the Let's 128 00:11:13,799 --> 00:11:18,399 start with the influentials. Okay, I don't want to call it protocols, 129 00:11:18,879 --> 00:11:24,120 but they're all trying to figure out how to maneuver this, and I don't 130 00:11:24,159 --> 00:11:30,320 mean to their own interests. So the fact that the Clintons have already come 131 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,759 out and embraced her, the chairwoman of the Black Caucus has already come out 132 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:41,559 and endorsedir and a number of House members. That is perfectly fine. But 133 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:48,879 so too is the approach that the Obamas took only commenting on Joe Biden. 134 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:56,080 The fact that the Obama's statement only talked about Joe Biden, his legacy, 135 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:03,080 what he's done for the country should not be interpreted as some hesitation over Kamala 136 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:09,679 Harris. It's a different approach, And you know, what given what Biden 137 00:12:09,799 --> 00:12:13,120 has sacrificed and on people, I think you have to understand he didn't get 138 00:12:13,159 --> 00:12:18,039 out of this because he wanted to. He didn't get out of this because 139 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:26,559 he's senile. Biden has did with this what he has often done, and 140 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:31,919 he's responded to the challenge in a way that he feels, as he said 141 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,200 himself, in the best interests of his party, best interests of the American 142 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:43,000 people. And I really think until these this till today, he probably was 143 00:12:43,039 --> 00:12:50,080 still convinced he was the right person. But when finally convinced otherwise, he 144 00:12:50,159 --> 00:12:54,600 understood that at least for the Democratic Party and for the people who think like 145 00:12:54,759 --> 00:12:58,039 him, it's not a question who's at the top of the ticket that they 146 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:03,840 hang on a second one. I say that, but the goal is to 147 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:11,799 keep Donald Trump from ever being president again. That is the greater issue than 148 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:18,639 who the Democratic candidate is. That's the goal for the Democrats, that's the 149 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:26,200 goal for people who think like them. Is it? But wouldn't that on 150 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,960 a larger basis, and especially in the states that we talk about being in 151 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:37,799 play, would that mean the candidate would have to be somebody that's more along 152 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,240 those lines or or am I or am I wrong? If you get out 153 00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:45,360 and shake a million hands and do that sort of thing and get your message 154 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:50,799 out that maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong. I'm just here's no, No, 155 00:13:50,879 --> 00:13:54,600 you're not wrong. I mean we're in we're in such uncharted territory. So 156 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,639 let me go back to chaotic? Is it not chaotic? I mean politics 157 00:13:58,639 --> 00:14:07,399 that funnest? Is that a word? Fun of it is today? I'm 158 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,200 sorry to keep making you laugh there, Bill, with the viral thing you 159 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,840 have, But let me let me go back for a second. Yeah, 160 00:14:13,879 --> 00:14:18,320 And there's going to be comparisons made to when Lyndon Johnson dropped out in nineteen 161 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,679 sixty eight, but there is no there is no comparison because Lyndon Johnson dropped 162 00:14:22,679 --> 00:14:28,639 out in the very early stages. What was it, March nineteen sixty eight, 163 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:35,159 Yes, after Eugene McCarthy, you know, kind of got only forty 164 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,440 percent of the vote. He didn't even win the New Hampshire primary, which 165 00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:45,559 wasn't that significant of a primary back then, And so there is nothing, 166 00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:50,600 nothing, nothing the equivalent. All right, that's it. Let's go back. 167 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:56,240 Here's the problem right now for any other candidate and for these well, 168 00:14:56,279 --> 00:15:00,200 I should be nine, since I'm Soto's to be an objective political scientist going 169 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,480 to use the word clowns. Who thinks there oft to be all at once 170 00:15:03,559 --> 00:15:07,840 like this quick thirty day nationwide primary. Two problems, well, no, 171 00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:15,039 a lot of problems. One too vague. If you do not nominate Kamala 172 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:22,639 Harris, you have an effect. Not you have an effect not only damage 173 00:15:22,679 --> 00:15:30,159 yourself with probably the major voting block of the Democratic coalition, black women, 174 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:35,159 and then women in general. Two, you have an effect repudiated the last 175 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:41,720 four years of the Biden Harris administration, which you had intended to run on 176 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:52,080 very good. So those two things there make it damn near impossible to emerge 177 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,000 for another candidate to emerge. Then there's another problem. And again not an 178 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:02,720 election lawyer, not an election finance lawyer, but the way what I have 179 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:11,840 read says, look, the only person who can inherit the hundreds of millions 180 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:22,240 of dollars raised by the Biden Harris campaign under federal election law is Kamala Harris, 181 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:30,360 Gretchen Whitmer whoever. They could not come in and then take over all 182 00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:33,639 that money. It doesn't work that way. Now again, I'm sure there's 183 00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:38,440 gray areas on this, but any candidate other than Kamala Harris Vice President Harris 184 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:45,639 will have to start from scratch financially. Now, the money would come, 185 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:51,919 but you know, whatever the amount Biden is still sitting on between Biden's campaign 186 00:16:52,039 --> 00:16:56,720 the Democratic National Committee's campaign, the hell a lot of money. Yeah, 187 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,320 it is a hell a lot of money. And that was the thing. 188 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:04,519 I think he had outraised Trump by a tremendous, tremendous amount of money. 189 00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:07,400 It was already in the in the war chest. But but let me let 190 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:18,400 me go to this because having some experience, personal experience with Parkinson's seeing it 191 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:26,160 within my family, seeing President Biden at times he looked Parkinsonian. And I 192 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,799 don't know if you saw this, but his brother Frank did speak to CBS 193 00:17:29,839 --> 00:17:32,640 News. Now he is not speaking for the Biden family, and I don't 194 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,359 know what to make of this or not, but to paraphrase, he said, 195 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:41,119 it'll be good to have my brother back for whatever time is left. 196 00:17:41,559 --> 00:17:48,200 And he did say his health was a factor in the decision where the White 197 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:52,720 House did yes, no, it's okay, where the White House was saying 198 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,240 it wasn't. Now, I look, there's always going to be political posturing 199 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,799 in this or that it was hard some times to look at President Biden and 200 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,680 feel as though he had the stamina at least to continue in the office and 201 00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:11,319 do the job that was there. But my question is, when you look 202 00:18:11,319 --> 00:18:14,759 at this, we take it out to the populace, We take it out 203 00:18:14,759 --> 00:18:18,359 to the man, which I think one of the great things about the United 204 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,880 States of America is for some people the last thing they have is one vote, 205 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,160 and it's equal to the multi millionaire who also has one vote. Yep. 206 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,480 And I think and that's one of the things I love. But I 207 00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:34,440 wonder when I'm looking to cast that vote, do I feel like I was 208 00:18:34,559 --> 00:18:40,240 lied to by the Democrats who said nothing about health and now here we are 209 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,000 this this month later, and you know, again, I think it'd be 210 00:18:45,079 --> 00:18:51,240 qualifying almost everything I said. I am not an expert on age. No, 211 00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:56,000 I understand that. I know that. I know that, but I 212 00:18:56,039 --> 00:18:59,960 know I know And again, I don't say that because I'm being I'm defensive, 213 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:02,759 and what you're asking me, I just yes, listener, I'm trying 214 00:19:02,759 --> 00:19:10,319 to give you an informed opinion. Politically the parties that both parties have done 215 00:19:10,319 --> 00:19:14,240 what they had to do. You know what go back to uh, let's 216 00:19:14,319 --> 00:19:18,559 let's do a parallel thing. What is it? Ten days ago we were 217 00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:26,599 talking about the attempted assassination is a right and and and Donald Trump has milked 218 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:33,519 that that bullet grazing his ear to no end. Okay, what is his 219 00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:37,279 most resistance? I took a bullet for democray. No you didn't, because 220 00:19:37,279 --> 00:19:47,519 you're still standing. Yes, that is true. It would still make me 221 00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:52,000 grab my pants to have you know, an aka whatever it was, and 222 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,559 not for AR fifty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got 223 00:19:55,599 --> 00:19:59,559 you. I Hey, listen, I don't know. I've read people doctor 224 00:19:59,559 --> 00:20:03,880 Bowers have said that he is. He's playing this so much that the bandages 225 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,039 on different ears from time to I haven't noticed it. I haven't noticed it. 226 00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:11,720 But but but but you could could the thing? Could the bandage have 227 00:20:11,799 --> 00:20:15,480 gotten any bigger? Now what I'm trying to deflect, But here's what I'm 228 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:22,920 trying to get at. They have spun everything from his convictions to to the 229 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:29,000 the the the assassination attempt, trying to turn this guy into something he's not. 230 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,839 Okay, guess what both sides spin. That's the phrase spin room. 231 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:37,680 To go back for a second, here's what I think has happened. I 232 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:48,359 actually think, just from OPO observing as a uh political scientists voter, I 233 00:20:49,079 --> 00:20:56,680 something Biden has declined. There was such a distinct difference between the Joe Biden 234 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,359 who gave the State of the Union address and when I listen and then I'm 235 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:06,079 going, my god, this guy can do it now, whether now, 236 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:12,200 whether it is all that travel that started it, something has started a downward 237 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:22,119 trend in his his appearance of vitality. Now, I have no doubts he's 238 00:21:22,279 --> 00:21:29,559 competent still mentally, I think he can write out the rest of these months 239 00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:33,519 as president and do his job and do it well. But it is the 240 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:45,920 whatever has triggered the physical deterioration in Biden that we've seen since the State of 241 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,559 the Union. All the energy he had in the audience with the State of 242 00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:52,359 the Union, not meaning of the audience with them, and all that something 243 00:21:52,400 --> 00:22:00,920 has fundamentally shifted. And you can't blame the the White House or the DNC 244 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,559 or the Biden Harris campaign from doing what they're hired to do. Okay, 245 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,920 so I want to, I want to, but let me let me go 246 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,799 in a different direction. Something you haven't asked yet. Biden did something else. 247 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:21,279 He may have dropped out, but he also now have has provided the 248 00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:25,480 Democrats with a chance to win. Let's listen to what's really going on here, 249 00:22:25,599 --> 00:22:27,359 well, and that what I was going to ask you, is this 250 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:33,000 the most patriotic thing he could have done? I'm going to use that word 251 00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:37,200 again. Fuck yes, yeah, okay, I think so too, doctor 252 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,759 Bowers. I really do, which I do too, and I feel bad 253 00:22:42,319 --> 00:22:47,119 and at times I have to say, watching them in that debate it almost 254 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,880 a little bit and look, I don't again, I'm not, as you 255 00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:53,160 have said yourself, non expert on aging. I don't know anything. I 256 00:22:53,519 --> 00:23:00,759 just think as as people looking at a leader that was a little unsettling, 257 00:23:00,839 --> 00:23:07,200 it was unsettling to watch and concerning. And so I thought then he needed 258 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,640 to step down. I thought it would be the most patriotic thing he could 259 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,079 do would be to step away, only to get that doubt out right of 260 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,279 anybody's mind and say I've served my time, you know, And that's not 261 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,960 an easy thing to do. Well, and let me put what and some 262 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,519 of your listeners and I feel like I'm spinning, But let me do a 263 00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:30,119 spin. Donald Trump, like I said to say, I took a bullet 264 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:36,799 for democraphy. See guess what Biden can equally say the same thing, in 265 00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:41,960 the sense that I took a personal sacrifice for democracy. Yes, he had 266 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:49,240 to admit to himself that he could no longer do this, or he could 267 00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:56,279 not inspire the confidence in many others that he could do this, and that 268 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:06,359 stepping aside was the right thing to do for the Democratic Party, for the 269 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,160 country, and ultimately for himself. Okay, but in the process of doing 270 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,079 this, he's also yes, things here in turmoil now, But listen to 271 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,880 the dynamics though, the dynamic shift here. Frankly, whether it's Terris or 272 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:25,640 anyone else, you're going to have a millennial at the top of the Democratic 273 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,319 ticket. You're going to have a shift in generation, whether it's Terris, 274 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:38,640 whether it's it's it's Britch and Whitmer or whoever. She's my twenty twenty eight 275 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:45,680 candidate. By the way, up until what happened today, So I guess 276 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,319 who becomes the old fuddyduddy fart in the room? Now? Yeah? Right, 277 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:59,480 so now, okay, media pundits, you got so focused on Biden. 278 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:07,599 Now you better shift those angles to all the crap Trump says. Now, 279 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,279 I'll tell you what I would do if I was if Harris gets it 280 00:25:10,319 --> 00:25:14,480 and I was advising her, I would say, come on, pick by 281 00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:18,960 another woman to be V. You would I was wondering that. I was 282 00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:22,039 just as you said that. I wondered if that would be pick another woman 283 00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:26,960 to be VP. It will be interesting to see if that happens. Because 284 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:33,200 white men aren't voting for you anyway, that's a good point for you know, 285 00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:37,839 a certain type of white male is not voting for me. Why not 286 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:44,680 go all in, yeah, and pick another woman and really drive home the 287 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:53,200 gender differences in the issues between the Democrats and the Republicans. Let let Trump 288 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,599 say some of the crap he says to now you know candidate Harris. Let 289 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:07,119 Dvance go up against it. The optics of two women on the ticket would 290 00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:11,359 jalvinize. And it doesn't have to be another person of color. It doesn't 291 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,559 have to You don't have to go find your group, you don't have to 292 00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:17,000 be a you don't have to be a Latin X or something like that. 293 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:25,240 But pick another woman who has the talent to go after particularly Dvance. And 294 00:26:25,319 --> 00:26:29,039 in that case, I've said her name before, I would like to see 295 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:34,440 if we're going to go down this road a Harris Whittler ticket. And here's 296 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,720 part of the reasons for Whitmer. Here's why Whitmer is such a good candidate. 297 00:26:38,079 --> 00:26:41,480 Would have been my candidate in twenty twenty eight. And if Harris gets 298 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,559 this and loses, would be my candidate in twenty twenty eight. If these 299 00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:51,599 issues are still relevant, Let's get back to reminding you about January sixth. 300 00:26:52,519 --> 00:27:00,480 What happened to her? These why echoes wanted to kidnap her? Yeah, 301 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:08,960 she's she would she just what happened to her is the reminder of the extreme 302 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:21,319 type of behavior that those followers in the Cult of the Orange Turd in Brave. 303 00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:30,839 You didn't claim I had to be totally objective here, by the way, 304 00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:33,480 by the by the way, by the way, yes, yeah, 305 00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:37,000 by the way, listener, My rhetoric is not objective. My analysis is. 306 00:27:37,319 --> 00:27:41,359 Well, the analysis is because we're talking about really what happens on the 307 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:47,000 on the Democratic ticket, and you've given great analysis of that, uh you 308 00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:52,319 know the other stuff. Well, look, the we we we play all 309 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,799 side. I let all sides say their piece here only because I think that 310 00:27:56,839 --> 00:28:00,799 it's I'd like to be one place where you can have the if there is 311 00:28:00,839 --> 00:28:03,839 such a thing and there is never a discussion, you get so mad. 312 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,400 It's so mad. Right. But by the way, not to drink too 313 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,839 far from why you called him want to do this? Yes, this is 314 00:28:10,839 --> 00:28:15,720 why I enjoyed podcasting better than regular media. Look, yeah, I call 315 00:28:15,839 --> 00:28:18,839 him the orange shirt. Sure, that's just my pet name. That doesn't 316 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,319 mean that I can't still be objection to the analysis. No, if you 317 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,160 yes, so I like to be I like the colorfulness. They can come 318 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,680 with them. Well, here's the thing is yes, but the colorfulness is 319 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,880 also the stuff that cuts through. That's what people look at. Trump himself, 320 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,960 doesn't He called it. He put out a statement today saying Crooked Joe 321 00:28:38,079 --> 00:28:42,079 is out of the ticket. This party's in total collapse, and said all 322 00:28:42,079 --> 00:28:48,519 these things, he does the same thing because it is Do not compare me 323 00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:52,319 to Donald Trump. I'm not compared. I'm just saying that I get the 324 00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:56,960 similarity here. You know, but look, he did this from the beginning. 325 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,240 I mean, no one, I don't think anybody has ever seen in 326 00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:02,640 a debate. Were all of a sudden you were named calling the other candidates. 327 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,200 We hadn't seen it, but you right, But you don't want to 328 00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:08,759 kind of get serious here again. And another thing to get obviously I like 329 00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:15,200 about podcast is that fluid. Yes. Look, when it comes to the 330 00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:21,079 colorfulness, it's one thing for me to do a colorful analysis. But I 331 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:27,279 looked at what Donald Trump said in his release. Now, boys, he 332 00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:32,400 has a short memory, doesn't he. Why I didn't like that he was 333 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:40,599 the day of the attempted assassination, despite what Joe Biden had said about him, 334 00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:45,319 which was never as bad as but Trump has said about Biden picked up 335 00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:49,839 the phone and called the man. Yeah, I agree, And I even 336 00:29:49,839 --> 00:29:52,400 thought, there's the dignity well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 337 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,680 I'm sorry. I don't mean to talk over you. But no, it's 338 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,720 like god, damn it. Can't you just at least once rise to the 339 00:29:57,759 --> 00:30:03,119 occasion. Yeah, you would wish that there would be some sort of kouth 340 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,599 right that would come out. I want to say dignity, but then even 341 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:14,519 beyond that, and yeah, sometime you have to put the call of fullness 342 00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:18,680 away. Yes, And I thought what I didn't like when I saw people 343 00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:22,799 saying, you know, on social media, we were an inch away because 344 00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:25,920 at the same time, take the political away from it, we are talking 345 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,680 about a human being. We are talking about somebody's father. We were talking 346 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,480 about a husband. Whether or not however that marriage works is none of my 347 00:30:33,559 --> 00:30:37,200 business. I'm just saying so for those things, I didn't like that. 348 00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:40,759 But I also thought today when he did this, I go, no, 349 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,680 I really like this either. It seems in poor taste at the moment, 350 00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:52,039 right, poor taste because this is somebody who has served this country in a 351 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,640 capacity for a majority of his life. Yes, over fifty years in public 352 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,079 office. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so and again I know I've 353 00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:04,240 strayed a bit from what you talk but what you were originally calling me about. 354 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:10,119 But yeah, but we are colorfulness or whatever you know. Now, 355 00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:12,160 though, to stay with a theme, Harris on the top of the ticket, 356 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:18,640 a different vice presidential candidate, I'm not as convinced against them. Trump's 357 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,960 colorfulness will play as well, because, like I said, now, he's 358 00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:26,519 the old guy who gets scrutinized. He is. But what is Kamala fifty 359 00:31:26,599 --> 00:31:30,920 nine? And then if you did put Gretchen Whitmer in there, Gretchen Whitmer 360 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:36,680 is a day younger than me. Well, and how are you? How 361 00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:40,440 old are you? Bill? I am fifty two and I will be fifty 362 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,440 three August twenty second. She will be fifty three, I believe August twenty 363 00:31:44,519 --> 00:31:48,720 third. If i'm if I remember was there? Well yeah, but if 364 00:31:48,759 --> 00:31:52,720 you think about that, that's significantly younger than seventy eight and eighty one. 365 00:31:53,599 --> 00:31:59,440 Yeah, that significantly. That's putting us back more into the Obama age it 366 00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:04,200 is when he was when he was elected. Well, just as a side, 367 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,279 since we sort of strut byway you can be thirty five to be president? 368 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:12,799 Has the presidency been so tarnished it used to be when you were a 369 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,240 kid. I think you heard it. I did. I would assume you're 370 00:32:16,279 --> 00:32:21,519 of the boomer generation and I would be of the gen X, and it 371 00:32:21,759 --> 00:32:25,119 was someday you could be president, you could grow up to be president. 372 00:32:25,559 --> 00:32:30,119 I don't know that that's said anymore. I really don't, because I feel 373 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,000 like the office is it's so horrible and so ugly that I'm going, what 374 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,880 young person wants to step into that shit storm? See? See? And 375 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,759 that's that's that's one of the interesting thing. And you know what, it's 376 00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:47,799 trigger something that Oh maybe that was a big choice of words given what we're 377 00:32:47,839 --> 00:32:58,440 talking about, but your your question makes a word pop into my mind. 378 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:04,640 Okay, ho holy, at one time, to be a president, you 379 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,799 could also be a hero, you know, think about the giants that we 380 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:13,480 used to have in government. Okay, And I was actually talking to someone 381 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:22,599 about this the other day, Uh, that we generally speaking don't have heroes 382 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:28,559 in public office anymore. Not Okay, I want to be careful. And 383 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:34,400 it's a blanket statement at least not to the not at the level that my 384 00:33:34,599 --> 00:33:39,400 generation had that perhaps your generation had. There are no Ted Kennedy's, there 385 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:46,759 are no uh Frankly Ronald Reagan even you know, I was thinking, I 386 00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:51,359 think there are some people who still had problems with Ted Kennedy and the chap 387 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,960 Aquinna. Well but but but but but again I understand that, but think 388 00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:01,640 about this, Yeah, but did stop, didn't do? But there are, 389 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:07,160 but there are, There are so many that were potentially heroic in their 390 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:13,280 own way, water Mondale, Jimmy Carter. Contrary to how people feel about 391 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,119 this, but we and so we're getting ready to go with this. When 392 00:34:16,119 --> 00:34:22,639 we talked about the sacrifice that Joe Biden made today in stepping aside, it 393 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,800 wasn't a done out of cowardice. He wasn't afraid he would love to state 394 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:34,880 in the fight his his sacrifice fits the use of that word. He made 395 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:44,320 a heroic decision today and whether you are and in the old days both red 396 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:49,440 and blue could see that. I'll agree with that. And I do wonder 397 00:34:49,519 --> 00:34:52,039 if to some extent, look doctor Bowers, I believe we live in a 398 00:34:52,079 --> 00:35:00,760 time where the fringes make the most amount of noise and have the easiest way 399 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,159 to make the most amount of noise with social media today, and I do 400 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,440 believe that the majority of people are more in the middle. I really do, 401 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:14,480 and I think that there is a real possibility, especially after you know, 402 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:21,960 reading some things from Republicans after the after Friday at the RNC that they're 403 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:30,079 not extremely pleased that this is the lead for the Republican nominee either. But 404 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,480 I really believe that now that those are people in trentch you go to certain 405 00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:39,239 pockets. I will say that I was trying to figure out what is what 406 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,199 would be the appeal of someone like a President Trump, and the appeal to 407 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:50,559 a President Trump. I remember President Trump kind of going into Michigan and saying 408 00:35:50,679 --> 00:35:57,119 to the CEOs of the car companies, if you're going to move your factories 409 00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:01,760 to Mexico. I'm putting a thirty five percent tariff on the products you sell, 410 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,599 and no one's going to buy your cars. Now. Whether or not 411 00:36:05,639 --> 00:36:07,199 he was able to do that, I have no idea, but I feel 412 00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:13,000 like for somebody who had either lost their job or invested their life in that 413 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,199 working those assembly lines, being you know, that blue collar Russ Belt person 414 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:22,760 who has felt like the forgotten American, he stood up and did something that 415 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,360 no other politician had done in terms of doing something like that. And I 416 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,880 feel like for many he spoke that he did it. I was just trying 417 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,960 to make sense of it. And I don't know if you agree with that 418 00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:45,840 or not. I don't disagree with you, because the Trumps, Trumps followers, 419 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:50,480 or the people who vote for him are more mixed than they get stereotyped 420 00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:54,199 to be. I agree. I don't even consider all of his voters Mega. 421 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:59,119 No, I don't either, because there are some I know people who 422 00:36:59,159 --> 00:37:01,400 say to me, you know, one of the problems I have is I 423 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,840 made more money when he was in office, and these are people who owned 424 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,440 businesses and and and tax breaks. Now that stuff is beyond my comprehension and 425 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:15,159 I can't wait right, right, and and and you know what they're they're 426 00:37:15,199 --> 00:37:24,440 they're just they're just corporate right, capitalists, capitalist corporate greed right and even 427 00:37:24,599 --> 00:37:29,119 Okay, but but the sorry I don't mean to talk about it's the first 428 00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:34,480 group though. That's that there are some within the Trump coalition, which I 429 00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:37,800 consider the Mega, who are the maggots. They are the worst of the 430 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:43,760 worst. Okay, that's who I think of with Mega. The people you're 431 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,239 talking about from the rust Belt. You know what I could have I could 432 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,400 have wrote hill billy eulogy or whatever the hell is. I'm from some of 433 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,519 the same kind of people. I'm from the Rustbelt. I could have written 434 00:37:53,519 --> 00:38:00,239 the rust Belt eulogy. I grew up among those with those factory works ors, 435 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,400 including my father, where you had a GM plan or something, with 436 00:38:05,639 --> 00:38:08,519 three generations and a family all worked there. This is what I'm saying, 437 00:38:08,519 --> 00:38:10,800 and then all of a sudden, the idea of it leaving. Right. 438 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,599 So here's somebody who's standing up and they don't agree with a lot of what 439 00:38:15,679 --> 00:38:20,079 he says. They not agree with Jark, but that one thing, man, 440 00:38:20,119 --> 00:38:22,360 there's somebody who's got my back. Finally, somebody who's got my back. 441 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,199 Well, but the thing. The sad thing is, though there, 442 00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:32,239 is that they fall prey to him skatee, escapegoating yess the right others, 443 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:39,920 blaming others and flaming their fears, and ultimately never truly other than rhetorically delivering 444 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,480 for them. Yeah, and this is, by the way, I know 445 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,400 we're going far afield, but let me but since you're on this, this 446 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:55,480 is where I blame the Democrats. Amen, I'm gay because because I still 447 00:38:55,599 --> 00:38:59,920 kind of call myself one because I agree with them. I'm kind of a 448 00:39:00,599 --> 00:39:05,320 I'm kind of a Woody Guthrie phil Oaks radical at this point in my life. 449 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,840 You know, Woody Guthrie used to say bosses, bankers and fascists were 450 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:17,119 all the same. I agree with him, but I like money. Money 451 00:39:17,159 --> 00:39:22,280 is okay. Money is okay. But let me get back to by put 452 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:30,000 Brambley. Here's where the Democrats screwed it up when they got look we have 453 00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:36,880 we had ship on so many of our own people for years, black Latino 454 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:43,159 women, days, working class picture group, and our system has shot on 455 00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:50,079 them. But the Democrats response to that and the inequality during the eighties and 456 00:39:50,199 --> 00:39:57,239 nineties in particular, was it goes so head first into identity politics, that 457 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:07,360 the group became more in important than the cause and and and their heritage of 458 00:40:07,559 --> 00:40:19,440 being for the common personage and they lost that. Yeah, and there so 459 00:40:19,599 --> 00:40:23,119 slowly I think getting back to it, wow, because the bendulum needs to 460 00:40:23,159 --> 00:40:30,639 swing back to some sort of what makes sense to agree. And that's why 461 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:37,199 Biden was so important in twenty twenty because he is the person who helped, 462 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:44,760 whether they realize it or not, Joe Biden bleeds union, Joe Biden bleeds 463 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:50,079 working class. You can't get someone more working class with Joe Biden, which 464 00:40:50,119 --> 00:40:54,559 is partly what partly his charm, right, I'll tell you what. I 465 00:40:54,639 --> 00:40:58,719 thought the same thing, and I thought if Biden could get more back to 466 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,880 that message, but I felt that there were deals cut to get people out 467 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:08,800 of the race, whether it be Bernie Sanders or what's her name from message 468 00:41:10,039 --> 00:41:15,760 only because that that they were a little like, yeah, I'm drawing, 469 00:41:15,519 --> 00:41:19,800 I'm forgetting and I can see her face and everything, which is terrible and 470 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,519 it shows my signs of aging. That's it. But Elizabeth Warren, I 471 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:29,880 think like she became something with she got a cabinet position. Did am I 472 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,840 wrong? H Warren is still in the Senate. Oh she's still in the 473 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:37,079 scent. Okay, but that that they but whatever deals were cut to sort 474 00:41:37,079 --> 00:41:40,679 of get them to step aside so both so Biden would get the nomination. 475 00:41:42,199 --> 00:41:46,039 I felt like it was such a there were there were things that almost painted 476 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:52,719 his campaign a little further left than he really is. Well see, and 477 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,880 I'm I'm a little yeah. And I have mixed emotions about the labels the 478 00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:02,159 left and the right, either in disregard there is well, there are certain 479 00:42:02,199 --> 00:42:06,360 labels. I wish people would quit using progressive. Okay, you know, 480 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,119 if you go look the real historic what the what the original progressives are like. 481 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:15,000 They weren't nice people. I would like us to banish that word from 482 00:42:15,039 --> 00:42:20,239 our politics, progressive, but to stay with conventional labels. The agenda of 483 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:28,039 the left when it comes to the economics is beneficial to working class. I 484 00:42:28,119 --> 00:42:32,840 used to say that really in twenty sixteen, I would have rather seen Bernie 485 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:39,199 Sanders go up against Donald Trump, because I think Bernie Sanders speaks to the 486 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:46,519 same working class, screwed over person that Trump does. Okay, that's a 487 00:42:47,039 --> 00:42:51,840 thought. Does he does only from the left, Yes, But I think 488 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,880 that that's what scares people because for so many years we were told communism's bad 489 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,280 and that he's a communist right now, but that's part of the problem right 490 00:43:01,199 --> 00:43:07,400 here. Let's going back to today's Trump, today's Trump, today's Republican Party. 491 00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:15,559 I would I do not believe that the Republican Party as currently structured under 492 00:43:15,599 --> 00:43:22,280 Donald Trump's leadership, is even remotely associated with conservatism. Okay, interesting, 493 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:27,719 I think that you both the most conservatives, like true conservatives. I've heard 494 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,719 that. I've heard them say to me, They're not a fan of this 495 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:37,039 guy. That's what it is not. This is not a left right struggle 496 00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:42,719 in this election. This is this is again, I'm not just trying to 497 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:52,639 do democratic talking point. This is a form of authoritarianism versus the continuation of 498 00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:59,880 our constitutional balances of power between the different branches of government. Trump does not 499 00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:07,519 represent an ideology. It is not an ideology. It is a worldview which 500 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:15,360 is authoritarian and cult centered. That you know what, if you were sitting 501 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:20,800 there today and this was Mitt Romney as the no nominee again, I'd be 502 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,159 going, Okay, I'll give him a chance. I realize he's old too, 503 00:44:23,199 --> 00:44:27,880 but but but if this would have been oh oh oh, the North 504 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:34,639 Dakota governor that was in doug of name was a Burman. What was the 505 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,360 I don't know. And again, okay, my point being is, oh, 506 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:45,559 here good example Asia Asa Hutchingson. Hutchingson goes all the way back to 507 00:44:45,559 --> 00:44:51,000 the Clinton administer Clinton years, and he was one of the impeachment leaders. 508 00:44:51,599 --> 00:44:58,760 But he's a tradition go yeah, one. Yes, he's a traditional conservative 509 00:44:59,559 --> 00:45:02,400 that you can disagree with, doesn't go out of his way to steer up 510 00:45:02,559 --> 00:45:07,800 fear and hatred. Right, Okay, I'm sorry we've gone so far afield, 511 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,119 but I hope you're okay with that. I'm fine. I'm fine with 512 00:45:12,159 --> 00:45:17,079 it because I think these are things that we don't you know, it's one 513 00:45:17,079 --> 00:45:22,199 of the I don't I think so many times now, and I try to 514 00:45:22,199 --> 00:45:24,800 say on the podcast over and over when you see a clip of something, 515 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:29,639 try to find the bigger picture because we're not getting the full context. We 516 00:45:29,679 --> 00:45:34,400 live in a bite sized world now where our attension SPAN's gone. If I 517 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,159 can tell you you can look. I look at data all the time. 518 00:45:37,199 --> 00:45:39,199 I'm looking at all kinds of social media data. If you don't grab people 519 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:43,679 within the first three seconds they're out, you know, the average person seems 520 00:45:43,679 --> 00:45:46,920 to be watching let's say a forty second video for twenty seconds, they're not 521 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:52,880 even staying till the end of it. If that's the case of those people, 522 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,840 on average, about a quarter of the people that look at any video, 523 00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:00,679 whoever created it, to stay to the end, it's only about twenty 524 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,920 five percent of the total viewers. So I feel like we're not We're not 525 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:10,199 getting full context of things in a lot of situations. So it's very easy 526 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:15,280 then in those situations to strike up fear. You know, when we talk 527 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:21,639 about open borders and terrorists getting in and these things that it's not exactly true. 528 00:46:21,679 --> 00:46:23,880 I talk to border agents. They have a very hard job. Could 529 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,760 it be easier? Are there things that could be done? One hundred percent? 530 00:46:28,559 --> 00:46:34,559 Our immigration policies need to be reworked, Yes, but as things are 531 00:46:34,599 --> 00:46:39,119 now, it's not that bad. But what grabs the headlines is when someone 532 00:46:39,679 --> 00:46:44,400 from an who got here legally or ill legally, or is on a green 533 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,440 card and commits a crime or commits a horrific crime, which is a tragedy 534 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,760 and no one wants to see that. That's what's going to grab the attention, 535 00:46:52,119 --> 00:46:54,320 and it plays back to the fear, and I'm not. I always 536 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:59,039 think that no matter what it is in life, and even in our own 537 00:46:59,079 --> 00:47:00,760 lives, it's never as good as we think it is, and it's never 538 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,360 as bad as we think it is, usually somewhere in the middle. And 539 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:12,760 Bill, it's the types of things you're talking about now, is why when 540 00:47:13,079 --> 00:47:17,760 they were they hadn't revealed the identity of the shooter. Right the other day, 541 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,280 I was I was going, please don't be a person of color, 542 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:28,519 Please do not be a Muslim. Please. Uh. And I'm not going 543 00:47:28,559 --> 00:47:32,719 to make any bad joke, but I could, but I won't. But 544 00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:39,599 the idea that that because all once the same idea, Oh look look what 545 00:47:39,639 --> 00:47:45,920 that look at look at what that Muslim did. They tried to assassinate President 546 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:52,679 Trump, and the the, the, the the, the condemnation of the 547 00:47:52,719 --> 00:48:00,199 whole group after that would have been occurring in some segments. And see and 548 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,480 you know, I'm wondering. I'm wondering too again playing off of what you 549 00:48:04,519 --> 00:48:09,280 said. I mean, these issues aren't going to go away. And yes, 550 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:15,320 news consumers need context. I mean we seem to have forgotten. And 551 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:20,480 it is a viable Democrat talking point that wait a minute, we had a 552 00:48:20,639 --> 00:48:25,400 bipartisan border agreement may not have been perfect, but with the most substantial immigration 553 00:48:25,599 --> 00:48:31,079 reform inbout fifty years. And Trump went, oh, no, you can't 554 00:48:31,079 --> 00:48:37,880 do that is you know? And so I don't know. I mean, 555 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,159 we could do a whole series of shows if you want to Bill Well, 556 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:45,440 there is Look, there's a real problem with illegal immigration coming into this country. 557 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,880 But at the same time, there's it's a twofold thing. We live 558 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:54,199 in an area where there are wines and different things developed. There are people 559 00:48:54,199 --> 00:48:58,840 who don't want to pick the grapes. Those are there are jobs that Americans 560 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:00,639 don't want to do, and so and you know it, wills come in. 561 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:05,599 The problem is that anybody shows up at an emergency room, anybody gets 562 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,679 that, they get served. So what should be right. It's a human 563 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:13,599 it's a human thing. But then it becomes an expense thing. And I 564 00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:15,800 do understand that argument, and it is a fair argument. Well, but 565 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:20,119 at the same time, we got to there's got to be a better way 566 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:24,599 than this way. But I'm not smart enough to figure that out. I'm 567 00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:30,199 not either. We could yeah, but and and but but the reality is 568 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:35,159 we're not necessarily going to have that kind of discussion between now and November whatever 569 00:49:35,199 --> 00:49:42,199 it is. No, and and you know that that can be a problem. 570 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:47,320 So we have we end up substituting you know, types of symbolism for 571 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:53,000 for real, meaningful policy discussions, right, and and we we we we 572 00:49:53,039 --> 00:50:00,280 substitute sound bites and gotcha points and this type of thing for policy. Now, 573 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,079 by the way, even even with the education I had, I'm not 574 00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:07,400 trying to sound you know, elitist here or anything. You know what, 575 00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:10,760 I can only take so much of a detailed policy analysis, you know what, 576 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,960 I don't. I want to know someone's going to try to make an 577 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:22,599 honest, bipartisan effort at addressing the border. I'm not going to sit there, 578 00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:25,840 and you know I can't sit there as a as a as a typical 579 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:30,000 voter and go and go oh no, no, no, I don't like 580 00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:32,719 that. No, I think we should I think we should let in this 581 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,920 many every every month, or or well, gee, what if we increase 582 00:50:38,119 --> 00:50:45,400 the the uh A worker visa by fifty percent. I don't have the expertise, 583 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:49,719 but uh but we're not going to get that up to a point. 584 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,320 We're where we're going to. We're going to get general talking points and keep 585 00:50:53,360 --> 00:51:00,719 our fingers crossed. But uh, but to kind of come back to our 586 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:08,239 other discussion too, the way we will see how policy is affected is who 587 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:15,679 controls Congress exactly and the presidency. Now, I think this is another reason 588 00:51:15,679 --> 00:51:20,679 why Biden shows step aside. Only he will have to come up with this. 589 00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:28,960 When Biden was more up to snuff, okay, when it was like 590 00:51:29,159 --> 00:51:32,480 the State of the Union, Yo, Biden, My own reading of the 591 00:51:32,559 --> 00:51:39,960 landscape was, Okay, it is going to be a challenge for the Dems 592 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:46,440 to keep the Senate, but with a vigorous Biden Harris campaign, plus good 593 00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:51,920 candidates, and where some of the Republicans won in twenty twenty two when they 594 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:57,960 shouldn't have. I actually thought throughout most of this time that the Dems had 595 00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,960 a chance to take back the House now with a big majority. I think 596 00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:09,119 again, someone I think and one of the issues for trying to nudge Biden 597 00:52:09,159 --> 00:52:17,159 to look about dropping out was the fear of having a use this term loosely, 598 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:23,440 a unified government in terms of Republicans in the House, Senate and in 599 00:52:23,519 --> 00:52:27,880 the White House. And I'm not talking about a separation of powers kind of 600 00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,760 saying that's the wrong cause to the term. And I'm also not convinced that 601 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:40,559 the House Republicans are really unified either. But so now, now even if 602 00:52:40,599 --> 00:52:45,079 Harris, if Harris gets the nomination, can run at least a competitive campaign. 603 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:52,239 If she loses, I think we're back to where the Dems will have 604 00:52:52,519 --> 00:52:57,920 a chance to flip the House because they don't need many seats. Yeah, 605 00:53:00,039 --> 00:53:02,639 great analysis of that, I do, And I and I do wonder if 606 00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:09,559 the if you if she did, how quickly do you think she would pick 607 00:53:09,599 --> 00:53:15,719 a VP. Well, I think we're not going to know until before the 608 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:24,000 convention. Okay, because we're in such uncharted territories. She's she's probably even 609 00:53:24,039 --> 00:53:29,960 having a what the fuck moment herself. Huh. Yes, I mean even 610 00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:36,400 though she was thinking it could happen, And everybody, everybody in the Democratic 611 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:43,639 Party needs to take a deep breath today, breathe it out for the next 612 00:53:43,679 --> 00:53:46,519 forty eight hours and say, okay, how can we do this in a 613 00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:52,679 way to show we're not going to be like the usual Democratic party that can 614 00:53:52,679 --> 00:53:58,280 shoot itself in both feet with an empty gun. Amen. I think it's 615 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,840 a great I think it's a great note note to end on. I agree, 616 00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:05,280 Yeah, I really do. That was well said, because it does 617 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,679 feel like that has happened often. And I think the analysis of kind of 618 00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:15,360 moving forward why Kamala Harris is probably the right person for the nomination now from 619 00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:21,880 a funding perspective, from an agenda perspective, all that makes sense because I 620 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,599 wasn't sure myself on Kamala if there would be you know, and and I 621 00:54:24,679 --> 00:54:28,719 kept thinking, if there's a you know, a hint of daylight in there, 622 00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,280 would somebody else step up? But I think as we close it out, 623 00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:37,039 I think this is an appropriate song just for the times we're living. 624 00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:45,800 John Lennon, Nobody told me there'd be am I right, I mean, 625 00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,280 come on, doc, Yeah, that's a good that's a good. Yes, 626 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,239 that's a good. That's a good one. All right. Well, 627 00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,400 it's always a pleasure to talk to you. I appreciate your time and thank 628 00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,400 you very much. Oh, it's always fun to be with you. Bill. 629 00:54:58,559 --> 00:55:00,760 All right, we'll have to do it again soon about your book. 630 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:06,320 I'll hold you to that. I hold me to it because I I've got 631 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,320 a I've got a big list that I wrote out today of things I need 632 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:14,400 to get to and before I before this even happened, and I put on 633 00:55:14,519 --> 00:55:20,000 there gotta get to contact doctor Bauers no bs. And then the announcement came 634 00:55:20,199 --> 00:55:23,559 and I went, I better call him. Find uf we'll talk. I 635 00:55:23,599 --> 00:55:27,440 will always, I will always talk to you. All right, Well, 636 00:55:27,519 --> 00:55:31,519 thank you doctor, enjoy the right to your Sunday, you too, take 637 00:55:31,559 --> 00:55:52,360 care grangeaydy, oh yeah about a drumming. I mixtop everybody. Let there's 638 00:55:52,400 --> 00:56:05,159 a little yellow island to the novel captain for doctor James Bowers. I am 639 00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:10,840 Bill Moran, and hopefully we'll see you tomorrow. You just got round. 640 00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:37,760 Nobody told me. Nobody told me nobody. Indeed. Looking for the perfect 641 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,960 place to indulge in SIPs this summer, look no further than Cobblestone on Maine 642 00:56:42,079 --> 00:56:45,960 at one on nine West Main Street in the village of Webster. At Cobblestone 643 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:50,920 on Maine, you'll find an exquisite selection of beverages, from handcrafted cocktails to 644 00:56:51,079 --> 00:56:55,039 a perfectly curated summer wine list. But that's not all. 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