The Red Wings are home this week. Tuesday has half price tickets and Thurman
Thomas signs autographs. Wednesday features a jersey giveaway. Thursday is a business Person
special at eleven h five am. Or tickets visit Redwings Baseball dot Com,
Btb's wood Fire Pizza and Grill in the Mulich, Greece ritche. In this
episode, I speak one on one with retired Saint John Fisher, Professor of
political science, doctor James Bowers about the announcement by President Joe Biden dropping out
of the twenty twenty four presidential race. I will say that the docs analysis
of this historic situation and what's unfolding within the Democratic Party is some of the
best you're going to hear. But the conversation does drift and biases sneak in.
Yet I say some of the best political conversation you may hear today.
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Visit myersrvs dot com. Now your old career gives you lemons throwing some ice,
mix in some vodka colored A podcast from the Mac of All Trade studio
in Fairport and driven by Victor Chrysler Dots Jeep Ram. It's Billified the Bill
Moran Podcast. Well, hello and welcome. I wasn't planning to do a
podcast today because I'm not feeling well. I don't know if anybody else has
gotten knocked out by this virus, but man, it is kicked my just
kick my ass. I don't like to get my ass kicked. It's been
a while, but this has kicked my ass. I have not really left
a bed or a couch since sometime on Wednesday, well Thursday, and I
did go get the covid RSV flu test all negative, but god, this
just kicked my ass. And then it was announced today that President Biden is
dropping out of the twenty twenty four race, and I thought, okay,
we got to get somebody on to talk about this, and who better And
you can see on the screen. Then my friend doctor James Bowers, he
is a retired professor of political science and pre law advisor at S. John
Fisher University, and send, I'm sort of by myself doing this. We're
going to be calling him live as we do it. Now he knows that
our call is coming, but this is a pretty historic day in American history,
and what does it mean as we move forward? So we'll find out
from doctor James Bowers. Hello, doctor Bowers, Hey, hello Bill.
I apologize for my tardiness, but I was trying to get all things set
up technologically on this end here. No problem, You're you're on Uh,
you're on time. I'm a building. I uh, well, I wasn't.
I was here early, and I was trying to say and then of
course, you know, with these big windows, as you've been in the
studio, people stop by and need to talk, and I'm going, hey,
I gotta go. Uh. But I just introduced you as retired Professor
of Political Science and pre Law Advisor at Saint John Fisher University. But I
don't know if there's anything else you'd like to add to that is author.
You're an author as well. You're also a musician, songwriter. I mean,
I think there's many talents here. Since this is a podcast, I
can say on it what I used to tell my students. I was,
Okay, what is that fucking brilliant? Yeah, not a good day for
me to be laughing, but yeah, so I will try to be serious
to close of the topic we want't talking about, Well, the topic we
want to talk about, I'll start here. In yourinion, how significant is
today's announcement of President Joe Biden dropping out of the twenty twenty four race and
endorsing Vice President Kamala Harris as the party's new nominee. Well, we're going
to hear this word way too much if we haven't already today and for the
next few weeks. I think the word you want is his history and in
effect has never happened before. Right, not this way. No, this
is late in the race, where a month from the Democratic Convention. So
I'll ask you this, is it fair to say that technically, by all
laws, I believe technically there was no Democratic nominee for president at this time.
That is true because the delegates. No, that's my question. I'm
glad to hear that, because the delegates, from what I understand, have
not voted and planned to do so in either early August or at the latest
at the convention, with the domination then going to President Biden. Right,
and I may not follow things as closely as I used to before that word
retired entered my life and understood prefixed before everything I do but yes, I
mean if people might recall in the news there was some effort there was going
to be an early virtual roll call before the convention to nominate Biden. Okay,
and a number and a number of well placed Democrats had started arguing about
delaying that, in other words, giving Biden more time to make up his
mind and hoping that might pressure him. So, I don't know if the
DNC, if it's the Executive Order, whoever would be the governing body there,
ultimately decided not to do that virtual role call. Now nothing prevents them
from doing that in pursuit of a a new nominee, whether it's Terrist or
someone else. And so so yes, I suspect though that is just me
spitball and saying I have a feeling now with where we are, they will
wait to the actual convention floor and spend a lot of time cutting what deals
need to be cut, so you don't basically embarrass the first black woman and
Asian woman from the nomination. Okay, Well, let me go back to
this one thing with the delegates. Could there be just because we live in
this day and age, could there be any legal challenge coming from any state
because of this change on the ticket, even though there really wasn't a ticket
yet, I still feel like somewhere some there could be some sleight of hand
or let's say a BS. I don't know, I am a great standing,
grand standing, I'll call it. Let's qualify as you want to.
I am not a lawyer, and I'm particularly not an election lawyer. But
in today's political environment, yes, I have no doubt that some red state
attorney general or something like that will file suit because they were gearing up for
Bide. You know, because if you recall a month or two ago,
both Ohio and I think it was Alabama that was claiming Biden wouldn't be on
the ticket because I wouldn't be on the November ballot because our deadline for you
know, certifying your candidate is before okay, right now, election Both election
law and party rules would have have obviously provisions for a candidate to be substituted,
you know. Let's say, and I want if candidate eight died before
a certain point in time, a party can replace it, particularly if the
ballots haven't been you know, printed or whatever passes for printing now. So,
but but your instincts, given this political environment, I will not be
surprised that some clown and rents. So I'm sorry, I'm joined my prejudice,
but I'm trying to be objective to there will be some red state clown
of an attorney general or the appropriate office, such as in Texas or Ohio.
You know it's likely to try a stuff like that. The courts will
swap it. The courts will swipe those down pretty fast. I think,
yeah, I would think so. I would think so too, only again,
because the delegates hadn't nominated, so that there was no nomination at at
this point. As for Kamala Harris, and as you pointed out, historic
in getting at least at this point leading for the Democratic nomination as not just
a woman, but an African American, an Asian woman, She's getting the
endorsement of President Biden. She's getting the endorsement from what I understand at this
point was President Clinton and Secretary Clinton and some others, but they all seem
to be the same people who were supporting Biden staying in the race as of
yesterday. So go ahead, oh go, gret, let me not anticipate
your question, Go ahead and finish your question. Well, my question would
be, what about are there others in the party who seem to have somewhat
some strength there in Pelosi or the Obamas or not coming out and saying anything
as of yet, And are there cracks of daylight for someone else to come
in and go Hang on a second, I don't care what your ethnic background
is. Are you the best person for the job? Yeah? Well,
okay, there's a lot to unpack there. So let's start with the Let's
start with the influentials. Okay, I don't want to call it protocols,
but they're all trying to figure out how to maneuver this, and I don't
mean to their own interests. So the fact that the Clintons have already come
out and embraced her, the chairwoman of the Black Caucus has already come out
and endorsedir and a number of House members. That is perfectly fine. But
so too is the approach that the Obamas took only commenting on Joe Biden.
The fact that the Obama's statement only talked about Joe Biden, his legacy,
what he's done for the country should not be interpreted as some hesitation over Kamala
Harris. It's a different approach, And you know, what given what Biden
has sacrificed and on people, I think you have to understand he didn't get
out of this because he wanted to. He didn't get out of this because
he's senile. Biden has did with this what he has often done, and
he's responded to the challenge in a way that he feels, as he said
himself, in the best interests of his party, best interests of the American
people. And I really think until these this till today, he probably was
still convinced he was the right person. But when finally convinced otherwise, he
understood that at least for the Democratic Party and for the people who think like
him, it's not a question who's at the top of the ticket that they
hang on a second one. I say that, but the goal is to
keep Donald Trump from ever being president again. That is the greater issue than
who the Democratic candidate is. That's the goal for the Democrats, that's the
goal for people who think like them. Is it? But wouldn't that on
a larger basis, and especially in the states that we talk about being in
play, would that mean the candidate would have to be somebody that's more along
those lines or or am I or am I wrong? If you get out
and shake a million hands and do that sort of thing and get your message
out that maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong. I'm just here's no, No,
you're not wrong. I mean we're in we're in such uncharted territory. So
let me go back to chaotic? Is it not chaotic? I mean politics
that funnest? Is that a word? Fun of it is today? I'm
sorry to keep making you laugh there, Bill, with the viral thing you
have, But let me let me go back for a second. Yeah,
And there's going to be comparisons made to when Lyndon Johnson dropped out in nineteen
sixty eight, but there is no there is no comparison because Lyndon Johnson dropped
out in the very early stages. What was it, March nineteen sixty eight,
Yes, after Eugene McCarthy, you know, kind of got only forty
percent of the vote. He didn't even win the New Hampshire primary, which
wasn't that significant of a primary back then, And so there is nothing,
nothing, nothing the equivalent. All right, that's it. Let's go back.
Here's the problem right now for any other candidate and for these well,
I should be nine, since I'm Soto's to be an objective political scientist going
to use the word clowns. Who thinks there oft to be all at once
like this quick thirty day nationwide primary. Two problems, well, no,
a lot of problems. One too vague. If you do not nominate Kamala
Harris, you have an effect. Not you have an effect not only damage
yourself with probably the major voting block of the Democratic coalition, black women,
and then women in general. Two, you have an effect repudiated the last
four years of the Biden Harris administration, which you had intended to run on
very good. So those two things there make it damn near impossible to emerge
for another candidate to emerge. Then there's another problem. And again not an
election lawyer, not an election finance lawyer, but the way what I have
read says, look, the only person who can inherit the hundreds of millions
of dollars raised by the Biden Harris campaign under federal election law is Kamala Harris,
Gretchen Whitmer whoever. They could not come in and then take over all
that money. It doesn't work that way. Now again, I'm sure there's
gray areas on this, but any candidate other than Kamala Harris Vice President Harris
will have to start from scratch financially. Now, the money would come,
but you know, whatever the amount Biden is still sitting on between Biden's campaign
the Democratic National Committee's campaign, the hell a lot of money. Yeah,
it is a hell a lot of money. And that was the thing.
I think he had outraised Trump by a tremendous, tremendous amount of money.
It was already in the in the war chest. But but let me let
me go to this because having some experience, personal experience with Parkinson's seeing it
within my family, seeing President Biden at times he looked Parkinsonian. And I
don't know if you saw this, but his brother Frank did speak to CBS
News. Now he is not speaking for the Biden family, and I don't
know what to make of this or not, but to paraphrase, he said,
it'll be good to have my brother back for whatever time is left.
And he did say his health was a factor in the decision where the White
House did yes, no, it's okay, where the White House was saying
it wasn't. Now, I look, there's always going to be political posturing
in this or that it was hard some times to look at President Biden and
feel as though he had the stamina at least to continue in the office and
do the job that was there. But my question is, when you look
at this, we take it out to the populace, We take it out
to the man, which I think one of the great things about the United
States of America is for some people the last thing they have is one vote,
and it's equal to the multi millionaire who also has one vote. Yep.
And I think and that's one of the things I love. But I
wonder when I'm looking to cast that vote, do I feel like I was
lied to by the Democrats who said nothing about health and now here we are
this this month later, and you know, again, I think it'd be
qualifying almost everything I said. I am not an expert on age. No,
I understand that. I know that. I know that, but I
know I know And again, I don't say that because I'm being I'm defensive,
and what you're asking me, I just yes, listener, I'm trying
to give you an informed opinion. Politically the parties that both parties have done
what they had to do. You know what go back to uh, let's
let's do a parallel thing. What is it? Ten days ago we were
talking about the attempted assassination is a right and and and Donald Trump has milked
that that bullet grazing his ear to no end. Okay, what is his
most resistance? I took a bullet for democray. No you didn't, because
you're still standing. Yes, that is true. It would still make me
grab my pants to have you know, an aka whatever it was, and
not for AR fifty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got
you. I Hey, listen, I don't know. I've read people doctor
Bowers have said that he is. He's playing this so much that the bandages
on different ears from time to I haven't noticed it. I haven't noticed it.
But but but but you could could the thing? Could the bandage have
gotten any bigger? Now what I'm trying to deflect, But here's what I'm
trying to get at. They have spun everything from his convictions to to the
the the the assassination attempt, trying to turn this guy into something he's not.
Okay, guess what both sides spin. That's the phrase spin room.
To go back for a second, here's what I think has happened. I
actually think, just from OPO observing as a uh political scientists voter, I
something Biden has declined. There was such a distinct difference between the Joe Biden
who gave the State of the Union address and when I listen and then I'm
going, my god, this guy can do it now, whether now,
whether it is all that travel that started it, something has started a downward
trend in his his appearance of vitality. Now, I have no doubts he's
competent still mentally, I think he can write out the rest of these months
as president and do his job and do it well. But it is the
whatever has triggered the physical deterioration in Biden that we've seen since the State of
the Union. All the energy he had in the audience with the State of
the Union, not meaning of the audience with them, and all that something
has fundamentally shifted. And you can't blame the the White House or the DNC
or the Biden Harris campaign from doing what they're hired to do. Okay,
so I want to, I want to, but let me let me go
in a different direction. Something you haven't asked yet. Biden did something else.
He may have dropped out, but he also now have has provided the
Democrats with a chance to win. Let's listen to what's really going on here,
well, and that what I was going to ask you, is this
the most patriotic thing he could have done? I'm going to use that word
again. Fuck yes, yeah, okay, I think so too, doctor
Bowers. I really do, which I do too, and I feel bad
and at times I have to say, watching them in that debate it almost
a little bit and look, I don't again, I'm not, as you
have said yourself, non expert on aging. I don't know anything. I
just think as as people looking at a leader that was a little unsettling,
it was unsettling to watch and concerning. And so I thought then he needed
to step down. I thought it would be the most patriotic thing he could
do would be to step away, only to get that doubt out right of
anybody's mind and say I've served my time, you know, And that's not
an easy thing to do. Well, and let me put what and some
of your listeners and I feel like I'm spinning, But let me do a
spin. Donald Trump, like I said to say, I took a bullet
for democraphy. See guess what Biden can equally say the same thing, in
the sense that I took a personal sacrifice for democracy. Yes, he had
to admit to himself that he could no longer do this, or he could
not inspire the confidence in many others that he could do this, and that
stepping aside was the right thing to do for the Democratic Party, for the
country, and ultimately for himself. Okay, but in the process of doing
this, he's also yes, things here in turmoil now, But listen to
the dynamics though, the dynamic shift here. Frankly, whether it's Terris or
anyone else, you're going to have a millennial at the top of the Democratic
ticket. You're going to have a shift in generation, whether it's Terris,
whether it's it's it's Britch and Whitmer or whoever. She's my twenty twenty eight
candidate. By the way, up until what happened today, So I guess
who becomes the old fuddyduddy fart in the room? Now? Yeah? Right,
so now, okay, media pundits, you got so focused on Biden.
Now you better shift those angles to all the crap Trump says. Now,
I'll tell you what I would do if I was if Harris gets it
and I was advising her, I would say, come on, pick by
another woman to be V. You would I was wondering that. I was
just as you said that. I wondered if that would be pick another woman
to be VP. It will be interesting to see if that happens. Because
white men aren't voting for you anyway, that's a good point for you know,
a certain type of white male is not voting for me. Why not
go all in, yeah, and pick another woman and really drive home the
gender differences in the issues between the Democrats and the Republicans. Let let Trump
say some of the crap he says to now you know candidate Harris. Let
Dvance go up against it. The optics of two women on the ticket would
jalvinize. And it doesn't have to be another person of color. It doesn't
have to You don't have to go find your group, you don't have to
be a you don't have to be a Latin X or something like that.
But pick another woman who has the talent to go after particularly Dvance. And
in that case, I've said her name before, I would like to see
if we're going to go down this road a Harris Whittler ticket. And here's
part of the reasons for Whitmer. Here's why Whitmer is such a good candidate.
Would have been my candidate in twenty twenty eight. And if Harris gets
this and loses, would be my candidate in twenty twenty eight. If these
issues are still relevant, Let's get back to reminding you about January sixth.
What happened to her? These why echoes wanted to kidnap her? Yeah,
she's she would she just what happened to her is the reminder of the extreme
type of behavior that those followers in the Cult of the Orange Turd in Brave.
You didn't claim I had to be totally objective here, by the way,
by the by the way, by the way, yes, yeah,
by the way, listener, My rhetoric is not objective. My analysis is.
Well, the analysis is because we're talking about really what happens on the
on the Democratic ticket, and you've given great analysis of that, uh you
know the other stuff. Well, look, the we we we play all
side. I let all sides say their piece here only because I think that
it's I'd like to be one place where you can have the if there is
such a thing and there is never a discussion, you get so mad.
It's so mad. Right. But by the way, not to drink too
far from why you called him want to do this? Yes, this is
why I enjoyed podcasting better than regular media. Look, yeah, I call
him the orange shirt. Sure, that's just my pet name. That doesn't
mean that I can't still be objection to the analysis. No, if you
yes, so I like to be I like the colorfulness. They can come
with them. Well, here's the thing is yes, but the colorfulness is
also the stuff that cuts through. That's what people look at. Trump himself,
doesn't He called it. He put out a statement today saying Crooked Joe
is out of the ticket. This party's in total collapse, and said all
these things, he does the same thing because it is Do not compare me
to Donald Trump. I'm not compared. I'm just saying that I get the
similarity here. You know, but look, he did this from the beginning.
I mean, no one, I don't think anybody has ever seen in
a debate. Were all of a sudden you were named calling the other candidates.
We hadn't seen it, but you right, But you don't want to
kind of get serious here again. And another thing to get obviously I like
about podcast is that fluid. Yes. Look, when it comes to the
colorfulness, it's one thing for me to do a colorful analysis. But I
looked at what Donald Trump said in his release. Now, boys, he
has a short memory, doesn't he. Why I didn't like that he was
the day of the attempted assassination, despite what Joe Biden had said about him,
which was never as bad as but Trump has said about Biden picked up
the phone and called the man. Yeah, I agree, And I even
thought, there's the dignity well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'm sorry. I don't mean to talk over you. But no, it's
like god, damn it. Can't you just at least once rise to the
occasion. Yeah, you would wish that there would be some sort of kouth
right that would come out. I want to say dignity, but then even
beyond that, and yeah, sometime you have to put the call of fullness
away. Yes, And I thought what I didn't like when I saw people
saying, you know, on social media, we were an inch away because
at the same time, take the political away from it, we are talking
about a human being. We are talking about somebody's father. We were talking
about a husband. Whether or not however that marriage works is none of my
business. I'm just saying so for those things, I didn't like that.
But I also thought today when he did this, I go, no,
I really like this either. It seems in poor taste at the moment,
right, poor taste because this is somebody who has served this country in a
capacity for a majority of his life. Yes, over fifty years in public
office. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so and again I know I've
strayed a bit from what you talk but what you were originally calling me about.
But yeah, but we are colorfulness or whatever you know. Now,
though, to stay with a theme, Harris on the top of the ticket,
a different vice presidential candidate, I'm not as convinced against them. Trump's
colorfulness will play as well, because, like I said, now, he's
the old guy who gets scrutinized. He is. But what is Kamala fifty
nine? And then if you did put Gretchen Whitmer in there, Gretchen Whitmer
is a day younger than me. Well, and how are you? How
old are you? Bill? I am fifty two and I will be fifty
three August twenty second. She will be fifty three, I believe August twenty
third. If i'm if I remember was there? Well yeah, but if
you think about that, that's significantly younger than seventy eight and eighty one.
Yeah, that significantly. That's putting us back more into the Obama age it
is when he was when he was elected. Well, just as a side,
since we sort of strut byway you can be thirty five to be president?
Has the presidency been so tarnished it used to be when you were a
kid. I think you heard it. I did. I would assume you're
of the boomer generation and I would be of the gen X, and it
was someday you could be president, you could grow up to be president.
I don't know that that's said anymore. I really don't, because I feel
like the office is it's so horrible and so ugly that I'm going, what
young person wants to step into that shit storm? See? See? And
that's that's that's one of the interesting thing. And you know what, it's
trigger something that Oh maybe that was a big choice of words given what we're
talking about, but your your question makes a word pop into my mind.
Okay, ho holy, at one time, to be a president, you
could also be a hero, you know, think about the giants that we
used to have in government. Okay, And I was actually talking to someone
about this the other day, Uh, that we generally speaking don't have heroes
in public office anymore. Not Okay, I want to be careful. And
it's a blanket statement at least not to the not at the level that my
generation had that perhaps your generation had. There are no Ted Kennedy's, there
are no uh Frankly Ronald Reagan even you know, I was thinking, I
think there are some people who still had problems with Ted Kennedy and the chap
Aquinna. Well but but but but but again I understand that, but think
about this, Yeah, but did stop, didn't do? But there are,
but there are, There are so many that were potentially heroic in their
own way, water Mondale, Jimmy Carter. Contrary to how people feel about
this, but we and so we're getting ready to go with this. When
we talked about the sacrifice that Joe Biden made today in stepping aside, it
wasn't a done out of cowardice. He wasn't afraid he would love to state
in the fight his his sacrifice fits the use of that word. He made
a heroic decision today and whether you are and in the old days both red
and blue could see that. I'll agree with that. And I do wonder
if to some extent, look doctor Bowers, I believe we live in a
time where the fringes make the most amount of noise and have the easiest way
to make the most amount of noise with social media today, and I do
believe that the majority of people are more in the middle. I really do,
and I think that there is a real possibility, especially after you know,
reading some things from Republicans after the after Friday at the RNC that they're
not extremely pleased that this is the lead for the Republican nominee either. But
I really believe that now that those are people in trentch you go to certain
pockets. I will say that I was trying to figure out what is what
would be the appeal of someone like a President Trump, and the appeal to
a President Trump. I remember President Trump kind of going into Michigan and saying
to the CEOs of the car companies, if you're going to move your factories
to Mexico. I'm putting a thirty five percent tariff on the products you sell,
and no one's going to buy your cars. Now. Whether or not
he was able to do that, I have no idea, but I feel
like for somebody who had either lost their job or invested their life in that
working those assembly lines, being you know, that blue collar Russ Belt person
who has felt like the forgotten American, he stood up and did something that
no other politician had done in terms of doing something like that. And I
feel like for many he spoke that he did it. I was just trying
to make sense of it. And I don't know if you agree with that
or not. I don't disagree with you, because the Trumps, Trumps followers,
or the people who vote for him are more mixed than they get stereotyped
to be. I agree. I don't even consider all of his voters Mega.
No, I don't either, because there are some I know people who
say to me, you know, one of the problems I have is I
made more money when he was in office, and these are people who owned
businesses and and and tax breaks. Now that stuff is beyond my comprehension and
I can't wait right, right, and and and you know what they're they're
they're just they're just corporate right, capitalists, capitalist corporate greed right and even
Okay, but but the sorry I don't mean to talk about it's the first
group though. That's that there are some within the Trump coalition, which I
consider the Mega, who are the maggots. They are the worst of the
worst. Okay, that's who I think of with Mega. The people you're
talking about from the rust Belt. You know what I could have I could
have wrote hill billy eulogy or whatever the hell is. I'm from some of
the same kind of people. I'm from the Rustbelt. I could have written
the rust Belt eulogy. I grew up among those with those factory works ors,
including my father, where you had a GM plan or something, with
three generations and a family all worked there. This is what I'm saying,
and then all of a sudden, the idea of it leaving. Right.
So here's somebody who's standing up and they don't agree with a lot of what
he says. They not agree with Jark, but that one thing, man,
there's somebody who's got my back. Finally, somebody who's got my back.
Well, but the thing. The sad thing is, though there,
is that they fall prey to him skatee, escapegoating yess the right others,
blaming others and flaming their fears, and ultimately never truly other than rhetorically delivering
for them. Yeah, and this is, by the way, I know
we're going far afield, but let me but since you're on this, this
is where I blame the Democrats. Amen, I'm gay because because I still
kind of call myself one because I agree with them. I'm kind of a
I'm kind of a Woody Guthrie phil Oaks radical at this point in my life.
You know, Woody Guthrie used to say bosses, bankers and fascists were
all the same. I agree with him, but I like money. Money
is okay. Money is okay. But let me get back to by put
Brambley. Here's where the Democrats screwed it up when they got look we have
we had ship on so many of our own people for years, black Latino
women, days, working class picture group, and our system has shot on
them. But the Democrats response to that and the inequality during the eighties and
nineties in particular, was it goes so head first into identity politics, that
the group became more in important than the cause and and and their heritage of
being for the common personage and they lost that. Yeah, and there so
slowly I think getting back to it, wow, because the bendulum needs to
swing back to some sort of what makes sense to agree. And that's why
Biden was so important in twenty twenty because he is the person who helped,
whether they realize it or not, Joe Biden bleeds union, Joe Biden bleeds
working class. You can't get someone more working class with Joe Biden, which
is partly what partly his charm, right, I'll tell you what. I
thought the same thing, and I thought if Biden could get more back to
that message, but I felt that there were deals cut to get people out
of the race, whether it be Bernie Sanders or what's her name from message
only because that that they were a little like, yeah, I'm drawing,
I'm forgetting and I can see her face and everything, which is terrible and
it shows my signs of aging. That's it. But Elizabeth Warren, I
think like she became something with she got a cabinet position. Did am I
wrong? H Warren is still in the Senate. Oh she's still in the
scent. Okay, but that that they but whatever deals were cut to sort
of get them to step aside so both so Biden would get the nomination.
I felt like it was such a there were there were things that almost painted
his campaign a little further left than he really is. Well see, and
I'm I'm a little yeah. And I have mixed emotions about the labels the
left and the right, either in disregard there is well, there are certain
labels. I wish people would quit using progressive. Okay, you know,
if you go look the real historic what the what the original progressives are like.
They weren't nice people. I would like us to banish that word from
our politics, progressive, but to stay with conventional labels. The agenda of
the left when it comes to the economics is beneficial to working class. I
used to say that really in twenty sixteen, I would have rather seen Bernie
Sanders go up against Donald Trump, because I think Bernie Sanders speaks to the
same working class, screwed over person that Trump does. Okay, that's a
thought. Does he does only from the left, Yes, But I think
that that's what scares people because for so many years we were told communism's bad
and that he's a communist right now, but that's part of the problem right
here. Let's going back to today's Trump, today's Trump, today's Republican Party.
I would I do not believe that the Republican Party as currently structured under
Donald Trump's leadership, is even remotely associated with conservatism. Okay, interesting,
I think that you both the most conservatives, like true conservatives. I've heard
that. I've heard them say to me, They're not a fan of this
guy. That's what it is not. This is not a left right struggle
in this election. This is this is again, I'm not just trying to
do democratic talking point. This is a form of authoritarianism versus the continuation of
our constitutional balances of power between the different branches of government. Trump does not
represent an ideology. It is not an ideology. It is a worldview which
is authoritarian and cult centered. That you know what, if you were sitting
there today and this was Mitt Romney as the no nominee again, I'd be
going, Okay, I'll give him a chance. I realize he's old too,
but but but if this would have been oh oh oh, the North
Dakota governor that was in doug of name was a Burman. What was the
I don't know. And again, okay, my point being is, oh,
here good example Asia Asa Hutchingson. Hutchingson goes all the way back to
the Clinton administer Clinton years, and he was one of the impeachment leaders.
But he's a tradition go yeah, one. Yes, he's a traditional conservative
that you can disagree with, doesn't go out of his way to steer up
fear and hatred. Right, Okay, I'm sorry we've gone so far afield,
but I hope you're okay with that. I'm fine. I'm fine with
it because I think these are things that we don't you know, it's one
of the I don't I think so many times now, and I try to
say on the podcast over and over when you see a clip of something,
try to find the bigger picture because we're not getting the full context. We
live in a bite sized world now where our attension SPAN's gone. If I
can tell you you can look. I look at data all the time.
I'm looking at all kinds of social media data. If you don't grab people
within the first three seconds they're out, you know, the average person seems
to be watching let's say a forty second video for twenty seconds, they're not
even staying till the end of it. If that's the case of those people,
on average, about a quarter of the people that look at any video,
whoever created it, to stay to the end, it's only about twenty
five percent of the total viewers. So I feel like we're not We're not
getting full context of things in a lot of situations. So it's very easy
then in those situations to strike up fear. You know, when we talk
about open borders and terrorists getting in and these things that it's not exactly true.
I talk to border agents. They have a very hard job. Could
it be easier? Are there things that could be done? One hundred percent?
Our immigration policies need to be reworked, Yes, but as things are
now, it's not that bad. But what grabs the headlines is when someone
from an who got here legally or ill legally, or is on a green
card and commits a crime or commits a horrific crime, which is a tragedy
and no one wants to see that. That's what's going to grab the attention,
and it plays back to the fear, and I'm not. I always
think that no matter what it is in life, and even in our own
lives, it's never as good as we think it is, and it's never
as bad as we think it is, usually somewhere in the middle. And
Bill, it's the types of things you're talking about now, is why when
they were they hadn't revealed the identity of the shooter. Right the other day,
I was I was going, please don't be a person of color,
Please do not be a Muslim. Please. Uh. And I'm not going
to make any bad joke, but I could, but I won't. But
the idea that that because all once the same idea, Oh look look what
that look at look at what that Muslim did. They tried to assassinate President
Trump, and the the, the, the the, the condemnation of the
whole group after that would have been occurring in some segments. And see and
you know, I'm wondering. I'm wondering too again playing off of what you
said. I mean, these issues aren't going to go away. And yes,
news consumers need context. I mean we seem to have forgotten. And
it is a viable Democrat talking point that wait a minute, we had a
bipartisan border agreement may not have been perfect, but with the most substantial immigration
reform inbout fifty years. And Trump went, oh, no, you can't
do that is you know? And so I don't know. I mean,
we could do a whole series of shows if you want to Bill Well,
there is Look, there's a real problem with illegal immigration coming into this country.
But at the same time, there's it's a twofold thing. We live
in an area where there are wines and different things developed. There are people
who don't want to pick the grapes. Those are there are jobs that Americans
don't want to do, and so and you know it, wills come in.
The problem is that anybody shows up at an emergency room, anybody gets
that, they get served. So what should be right. It's a human
it's a human thing. But then it becomes an expense thing. And I
do understand that argument, and it is a fair argument. Well, but
at the same time, we got to there's got to be a better way
than this way. But I'm not smart enough to figure that out. I'm
not either. We could yeah, but and and but but the reality is
we're not necessarily going to have that kind of discussion between now and November whatever
it is. No, and and you know that that can be a problem.
So we have we end up substituting you know, types of symbolism for
for real, meaningful policy discussions, right, and and we we we we
substitute sound bites and gotcha points and this type of thing for policy. Now,
by the way, even even with the education I had, I'm not
trying to sound you know, elitist here or anything. You know what,
I can only take so much of a detailed policy analysis, you know what,
I don't. I want to know someone's going to try to make an
honest, bipartisan effort at addressing the border. I'm not going to sit there,
and you know I can't sit there as a as a as a typical
voter and go and go oh no, no, no, I don't like
that. No, I think we should I think we should let in this
many every every month, or or well, gee, what if we increase
the the uh A worker visa by fifty percent. I don't have the expertise,
but uh but we're not going to get that up to a point.
We're where we're going to. We're going to get general talking points and keep
our fingers crossed. But uh, but to kind of come back to our
other discussion too, the way we will see how policy is affected is who
controls Congress exactly and the presidency. Now, I think this is another reason
why Biden shows step aside. Only he will have to come up with this.
When Biden was more up to snuff, okay, when it was like
the State of the Union, Yo, Biden, My own reading of the
landscape was, Okay, it is going to be a challenge for the Dems
to keep the Senate, but with a vigorous Biden Harris campaign, plus good
candidates, and where some of the Republicans won in twenty twenty two when they
shouldn't have. I actually thought throughout most of this time that the Dems had
a chance to take back the House now with a big majority. I think
again, someone I think and one of the issues for trying to nudge Biden
to look about dropping out was the fear of having a use this term loosely,
a unified government in terms of Republicans in the House, Senate and in
the White House. And I'm not talking about a separation of powers kind of
saying that's the wrong cause to the term. And I'm also not convinced that
the House Republicans are really unified either. But so now, now even if
Harris, if Harris gets the nomination, can run at least a competitive campaign.
If she loses, I think we're back to where the Dems will have
a chance to flip the House because they don't need many seats. Yeah,
great analysis of that, I do, And I and I do wonder if
the if you if she did, how quickly do you think she would pick
a VP. Well, I think we're not going to know until before the
convention. Okay, because we're in such uncharted territories. She's she's probably even
having a what the fuck moment herself. Huh. Yes, I mean even
though she was thinking it could happen, And everybody, everybody in the Democratic
Party needs to take a deep breath today, breathe it out for the next
forty eight hours and say, okay, how can we do this in a
way to show we're not going to be like the usual Democratic party that can
shoot itself in both feet with an empty gun. Amen. I think it's
a great I think it's a great note note to end on. I agree,
Yeah, I really do. That was well said, because it does
feel like that has happened often. And I think the analysis of kind of
moving forward why Kamala Harris is probably the right person for the nomination now from
a funding perspective, from an agenda perspective, all that makes sense because I
wasn't sure myself on Kamala if there would be you know, and and I
kept thinking, if there's a you know, a hint of daylight in there,
would somebody else step up? But I think as we close it out,
I think this is an appropriate song just for the times we're living.
John Lennon, Nobody told me there'd be am I right, I mean,
come on, doc, Yeah, that's a good that's a good. Yes,
that's a good. That's a good one. All right. Well,
it's always a pleasure to talk to you. I appreciate your time and thank
you very much. Oh, it's always fun to be with you. Bill.
All right, we'll have to do it again soon about your book.
I'll hold you to that. I hold me to it because I I've got
a I've got a big list that I wrote out today of things I need
to get to and before I before this even happened, and I put on
there gotta get to contact doctor Bauers no bs. And then the announcement came
and I went, I better call him. Find uf we'll talk. I
will always, I will always talk to you. All right, Well,
thank you doctor, enjoy the right to your Sunday, you too, take
care grangeaydy, oh yeah about a drumming. I mixtop everybody. Let there's
a little yellow island to the novel captain for doctor James Bowers. I am
Bill Moran, and hopefully we'll see you tomorrow. You just got round.
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