WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.240 --> 00:00:04.639 No matter what your experience level, no matter who you're speaking to, what 2 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:09.880 level and an organization, everybody loves to be led, provided that you can 3 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:17.559 take them to a place that they can't get to on their own. You're 4 00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:21.679 listening to the Audible Ready Podcast. The show that helps you and your teams 5 00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:26.280 sell more Faster. Will feature sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to 6 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:30.679 create a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth. Presented by the 7 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:34.799 team at Force Management, a leader in B to B sales effectiveness. Let's 8 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:39.880 get started. Hello, I'm Rachel Claude Miller. Welcome to the Audible Ready 9 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:43.759 Sales Podcast. Today we are going to color a topic that has to do 10 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:49.000 with experience. John Kaplan joins me for the conversation. Hi John, Hi 11 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:53.320 Rachel. I'm assuming you got me on this one because the jokes on me. 12 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:58.799 I have a lot of experience, which means I'm old. You're wise 13 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:02.640 too. Kato always yell that makes always says you're just an experienced negotiator. 14 00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:06.840 He says, it makes me sound old every time podcast cliche. That's right, 15 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.719 I think so. But today that experience and we're going to be talking 16 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:15.159 specifically, specifically to younger reps out there, And I think this topic is 17 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:21.400 important because if you're listening, you might find yourself if you're you know, 18 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:23.879 in your first or second, you may be even third job, you may 19 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:30.120 find yourself going up against much more experienced decision makers depending on the industry or 20 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:34.840 wherever you're selling, and these conversations can be intimidating. So I want to 21 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:42.239 give the less experienced reps some confidence about approaching these conversations with conviction and confidence. 22 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:47.480 Yeah, I think this is a really really good topic. More and 23 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:53.000 more scenarios I see where BDRs inside sellers are their roles are getting expanded, 24 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:57.920 you know, more and more and being asked to do more and more with 25 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:01.519 the client. So I think I think a really relevant topic. What I 26 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:07.080 would say, just at the uber level is we have to change our mindset. 27 00:02:07.199 --> 00:02:14.960 You know, intimidation only comes when you know, using a you versus 28 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:19.879 them mentality, you know, first make it all about them and earn the 29 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:22.879 right to make it all about you. And we're going to talk about that 30 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:27.199 today as we talk about kind of you know, using an outside in approach 31 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:32.319 versus an inside out approach, but that uber mindset of instead of you versus 32 00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:37.599 them. You know, first make it all about them and earn the right 33 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:39.479 to ma get all about you. I think that'll really really help you. 34 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:45.439 Yeah, this conversation really comes back to the fundamentals of value based selling. 35 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:52.000 We're just clouding it in this idea of going going up against or selling to 36 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:55.719 more experienced buyers. It doesn't really matter how much experience you have, what 37 00:02:55.919 --> 00:03:01.000 age you are. Those fundamentals work. Yeah, I mean to you got 38 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:06.719 to just remember to be a successful seller, no matter what's your experience level, 39 00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:12.360 you need to articulate value and differentiation in a way that solves your customers 40 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:16.800 most pressing business problems. And you know your goal in every sales interaction is 41 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:23.000 to achieve that ultimate outcome. Just simple fundamentals, right, you know. 42 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:27.280 One of the I get called on a lot from vendors being in marketing, 43 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:31.439 and one of the things I cannot stand is, no matter who's on the 44 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:35.439 other phone, is that they assume that I'm not an expert, or that 45 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:39.120 I'm new a newbie, or they know more about a particular topic than I 46 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:42.360 do. I mean, if one more person tells me I have to have 47 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:46.039 a clear value prop and a paid ad, I'm going to scream they might 48 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:47.400 know more than I do. I'm not saying I know everything, but I 49 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:51.599 don't like them making that assumption, especially when when they don't know me. 50 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:55.120 Yeah, I think that's such a relevant point, Rachel. You know, 51 00:03:55.240 --> 00:04:02.479 especially for greener sellers, know, but if your buyer is seasoned, you 52 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:09.639 want to show empathy and not cockiness. And maybe not cockiness isn't intended, 53 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:13.960 but it's perceived. And you know, one of the most frequent complaints that 54 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:17.680 buyers have with sellers in general is that they don't listen, that sellers don't 55 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:23.120 listen, and that they don't understand their business. And we call that listeners 56 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:27.160 have heard before. We call that the seller deficit disorder. So, you 57 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:31.399 know, not listening to the buyers shows them that you're not interested in knowing 58 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:35.639 what problems they're dealing with, and that you're only there to sell them your 59 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:41.120 product and you know, not really focused on a real solution. So if 60 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:46.639 you're a newer rep you want to be especially aware of this seller deficit disorder 61 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:53.240 because your more experienced buyers are going to expect that you haven't been around the 62 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:59.040 block enough to talk to them from a place of authority. Yeah, We've 63 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:01.480 got some great content and overcoming the sellar deficit disorder, so be sure to 64 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:05.360 check out the links in the show notes. John, you mentioned empathy, 65 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:09.800 and I like to dig on that a little more. It's one thing to 66 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:14.360 have confidence and conviction around what you're selling and the problems you solve. But 67 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:16.199 again, you don't want to be and know it all. So how can 68 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:20.000 we show empathy? Yeah, the you know, the best way to show 69 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:26.720 empathy is to understand the challenges that people are facing. And it's kind of 70 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:30.839 to sit in the moment of pain for that buyer. Do you know other 71 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:36.639 people who've faced that same challenge and can share how they've solved it? You 72 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:40.439 know, then you know, find a way to add value to them, 73 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:45.879 you know, without an agenda, connect them with someone who's dealing with their 74 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:50.079 same challenges. Often we talk about sharing research with them and you know, 75 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:57.720 just constantly, constantly trying to show ways to add value to them. Another 76 00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:00.480 thing is the way that you ask questions, So, you know, ask 77 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:04.560 questions that help you find ways to show the value what's working well. I 78 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:09.480 like to tell people, you know, especially newer reps that are a little 79 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:12.240 bit worried about how am I going to get the customer to tell me something 80 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:16.199 negative. Well, one of the strategies that I have is just to ask 81 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:21.399 them about what's working well. And it's part of the human condition to not 82 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:25.720 mislead people or to lie to people. So if you say, hey, 83 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:29.800 what do you like most about your ability to do XYZ? When you're really 84 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:33.480 trying to find out what happens when XYZ doesn't work, oftentimes they're going to 85 00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:40.959 talk quickly about what's not working. So let me just repeat that. Start 86 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:45.680 with a positive ask a customer about what they like most about either the current 87 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:48.360 environment or the current situation, you know, turning around a little bit, 88 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:54.120 and see how fast they begin to tell you about what's not working. I 89 00:06:54.199 --> 00:07:00.199 found that strategy really really works well with new sellers. You've likely heard the 90 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:05.879 same comments before from other prospects. You learn how to overcome this seller deficit 91 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:13.240 disorder early in your career by truly, truly listening and articulating what you heard 92 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:16.199 back to your customers. So make it a habit of summarizing. So what 93 00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:19.879 I hear you saying, mister missus customers x y Z. The reason why 94 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:25.800 I'm telling you this missus customer is because you said, and when you do 95 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:30.680 that, you're combating that seller deficit disorder and the fact that they don't believe 96 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.959 that you heard them. So anytime that you can reinforce that you're listening, 97 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:40.879 I think it's really really powerful. So show empathy and understanding. Actively listen, 98 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:45.920 and don't assume that you know the challenge before they've actually told you. 99 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:50.199 This is something I want to reiterate for the newer sellers. It's not about 100 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:57.360 you knowing what's going on or understanding understanding the challenge before they actually told you. 101 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:01.639 You don't gain any ground with a customer from an experience perspective if you 102 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:05.040 cut them off and try to tell them, yeah, I would assume that 103 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:09.839 this is your problem or that that's your problem. That's actually pretty annoying. 104 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:15.800 So you don't have to impress them with what you know. They're more impressed 105 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:20.279 by what you learn from what they tell you, and then you can repeat 106 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:24.959 it back one last part on this, Rachel. One of the great ways 107 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.800 to show empathy. This happens to me a lot at Force Management when we 108 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:33.879 go through discovery and we do a really really good job with discovery, and 109 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:39.960 I've had CEOs and CROs and executives say man, we just really suck, 110 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:45.200 or we just really struggle, or have you seen an organization as bad as 111 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:48.240 us or what have you? And they're being serious, and it's partly because 112 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:52.679 we allowed them to talk. We asked great discovery questions, had them stand 113 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.720 in their moment of pain, and they told us, but I never leave 114 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:00.559 somebody there. A lot of times, what I'll do us I'll say, 115 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:05.799 hey, mister missus CEO or CFO or whoever, CXO, Hey, you're 116 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.960 not alone. Your answers are not foreign to us. It's actually the exact 117 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:15.440 reason why we exist. And so try that one on. If you're going 118 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:18.200 through a discovery process and a customer is getting you're doing a good job of 119 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.360 making them stand in their moment of pain. They're feeling lower and lower and 120 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:28.240 lower or not as you not confident that they're a good organization. Show empathy 121 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:31.240 by saying we see this all the time. You're not alone. It's why 122 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:37.679 we exist. I'd like to talk about some strategies and some solutions that can 123 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.120 help address that. It's a really really good way to show empathy. Yeah, 124 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:45.519 and help people over this perception that you may not know what you're talking 125 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.919 about. I mean, all of this really comes down to finding that problem 126 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:54.360 you can solve and therefore provide some value. Yeah, and so you know 127 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:58.000 you said if there's no need, then there's no value, and if there's 128 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:03.399 no solution maps to a met need, it has no value. So both 129 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:09.320 must exist to create a compelling value proposition. And often, you know, 130 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:16.320 newer reps get stuck installed deals because they're progressing opportunities without identifying a big enough 131 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:20.799 business problem that compels a buyer to take action. So we've got to remember 132 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:26.200 that you cannot help a customer without understanding the business impacts of the problem facing 133 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.399 your customer. I used to say when I was a young sales leader, 134 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:39.000 no business issue, no business you know, focus on executing effective discovery to 135 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:43.679 uncover customer pain points. Then go deeper. Many of you have heard me 136 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:50.960 say this before. Go deeper, Go deeper and understand the negative consequences of 137 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:56.200 those problems. How big of an impact are those issues you know making on 138 00:10:56.279 --> 00:11:01.039 the business, Because without that negative impact, you'll have difficulty moving a deal 139 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:07.480 forward. Don't be too eager to move a deal forward before you've really connected 140 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:13.840 yourself to pain. So think about that go deeper, Go deeper, go 141 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:16.799 deeper, Just don't go on the service surface level. Customer says, yeah, 142 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.360 you know, I think we have a problem with that. Oh well, 143 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:22.840 you have a problem with that, I have a solution. No, 144 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:26.960 let's find the implications of that pain. New sellers, just listen to me. 145 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.279 You'll struggle with that a little bit because you'll think that you're being negative. 146 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.759 I just want to give you some spirit. You're not being negative. 147 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:41.519 That customer situation is negative for them. You're only going through a course of 148 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:48.440 discovery which allows them to emotionally connect to creating urgency to solve that negative situation. 149 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:52.840 So hang in there. Yeah, and you know that point of staying 150 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:56.639 in discovery to find these implications, that just goes back to asking great questions 151 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:03.360 and really making that person understand that you want to understand the business challenges so 152 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:07.840 you can best align a solution to help them solve that. And if you 153 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:11.879 stay in that discovery, you're just building more positive business intent. As Brian 154 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:16.600 Walsh says, you're showing your business acumen, and in that process of finding 155 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:20.919 the pain and aligning to it, you earn the respect of the buyer no 156 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:26.679 matter the difference you have in experience. Yeah, I love it, Rachel, 157 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:33.320 And it really kind of connects me to the thought of it's not always 158 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:41.320 just what you sell. Oftentimes how you sell can differentiate you. And we 159 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:46.320 can say it's not always your level of experience, it's how you sell can 160 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:52.519 overcome that lack of experience. So just remember this also, this is one 161 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:56.440 of the reasons why we say everybody loves to be led. Each and every 162 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:03.440 person listening to this, we all love to be led provided that that person 163 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:07.200 that's leading us can take us to a place that we can't get to on 164 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:11.440 our own. So just remember that no matter what your experience level, no 165 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:16.919 matter who you're speaking to, what level and an organization, everybody loves to 166 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.240 be led provided that you can take them to a place that they can't get 167 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:24.559 to on their own. And you just have to believe and have confidence and 168 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:30.320 conviction that what your company does for a living matters because it solves big business 169 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:37.919 issues or big problems. Rest there to feel the exhilaration of your experience. 170 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.639 Rest there and not worrying about time, how much time you've been doing something 171 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:48.519 or lack thereof. I think that's really really good advice. So that's a 172 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:52.480 great point, John, And as we wrap up, as with anything, 173 00:13:54.240 --> 00:14:00.159 preparation, especially if you're a greener rep helps you execute in a way that 174 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:07.480 gives you credibility. Yeah, I think preparation is the great equalizer in this 175 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:13.960 discussion of lack of experience. Preparation is the great equalizer And the difference between 176 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:20.559 stress and pressure is always always preparedness. So when you put those two together, 177 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:26.080 regardless of where you are, how long you've been selling something, how 178 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:31.720 new you are to an organization, lean into the knowledge skills that are created 179 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:35.679 for you by your company. Learn the answers to the four central questions, 180 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:39.720 what problems do you solve, how specifically do you solve them, how do 181 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:43.720 you solve them differently or better? And where have you done it before? 182 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:50.360 Lean into those answers from your company. Spend some time preparing in the morning 183 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.080 two things. How do I attach myself to the biggest business issue facing this 184 00:14:54.200 --> 00:15:03.279 customer? And how can I influence the decision criteria with my differentiation today through 185 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:07.559 the use of great discovery questions. To get both of those topics up on 186 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.240 the table you sit there in the morning, and that will be another great 187 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:16.279 equalizer. Your preparedness will bring you home, So don't worry about your experience 188 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:20.840 or lack thereof. Rest in some of the suggestions that we've given you today 189 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:26.159 and go crush it. Go crush it. Check out the show notes too 190 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:30.080 for some more resources. Thank you, John, my pleasure. All right, 191 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:33.960 thank you to everybody for listening. At force Management, we're focused on 192 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:39.720 transforming sales organizations into elite teams. Our proven methodologies deliver programs that build company 193 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:46.120 alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the ability to execute the 194 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:50.799 growth strategy at the point of sale. Our strength is our experience. The 195 00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:54.840 proof is in our results. Let's get started. Visit us at forcemanagement dot 196 00:15:54.879 --> 00:16:00.840 com. You've been listening to the Audible Ready podcast. To not an episode, 197 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:03.480 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player until next time.