WEBVTT

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This episode may contain content of a
graphic nature, including descriptions of physical and

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sexual violence against adults, children,
and animals. Listener discretion is advised.

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Hi everyone, I'm Tanya and I'm
Talia, and we are Crimes and Consequences,

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a true crime podcast. Hi Talia, Hi Tania. How are you

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doing? Oh? Today's great day. How are you? Yeah, it's

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a great day, fucking great day. Welcome everyone to another exciting episode of

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Crimes and Consequences. And before I
get into today's story, I would just

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like to remind everyone to hit the
subscribe or follow button. So before I

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tell the story today, I just
have to warn everyone. It's a horrible,

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horrible, graphic case of child abuse. Girl. Didn't we already go

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down this plan with baby lollipops?
We did? Yeah? I'm sorry?

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What is going out here? I
got another one? And I'm really sorry,

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man, this one I literally walked
out last time depressed. This one's

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bad. This one was bad,
and I'm not gonna give it away.

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But anyway, I was pissed.
I was pissed. Okay, I don't

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need all the details now, Okay, Anyway, by just looking at her,

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you would think Lois Jurgens was the
picture perfect housewife in the time of

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nineteen fifties suburban America. At the
very least, that image was exactly what

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she constantly strived for. This is
like the I Love Lucy era. Yes,

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she strived for this, and that's
the expectation that she set for herself.

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Lois grew up in an impoverished family
with sixteen siblings. Holy Catholic,

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Damn, I'm guessing, so she
knew exactly what kind of life she wanted

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when she eventually left home. She
used her marriage to former bandleader turned electrician

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Harold Jerkins as a means to improve
her social standing. At least with Harold,

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she was considered middle class, which
was far better than what she grew

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up in. Lewis and Harold lived
in white Bear Lake, Minnesota, which

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is a suburb of Saint Paul,
and Lewis took pride in the home that

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they made together. Lewis had a
pathological need to control her environment like she

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was obsessive. She cleaned, and
she tended to her home both inside and

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out, like she just wanted to
have this appearance of everything's perfect. She

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was all about the image. Her
house was spotless, her garden was always

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tended to, and her life was
seen as nothing short of perfectly manicured.

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Lewis herself was prem and proper,
and both her and Harold were devout Catholics.

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You knew it. The only thing
that left their perfect image tainted was

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the fact that Lois could not have
children, and they desperately wanted kids.

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To add insult to injury, the
couple also couldn't adopt, since while the

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authorities had barred Lois from pursuing this
path to motherhood. The reason for this

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sanction was due to Lois's struggle with
her mental health over the past decade.

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She had suffered bouts of depression and
psychosis, which included an extended state at

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a psychiatric institution as a quote unquote
mental patient. Lois was subjected to a

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variety of therapy during her stay oh
Man in the fifties, and it included

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electroshock therapy. She was diagnosed as
having psychonaurosis, which is a functional personality

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disorder characterized by disturbing emotional symptoms such
as morbid fears, obsessive thoughts, or

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depressive states, but with out delusions
or hallucinations. Yet, despite her history

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as well as those who would label
her as unfit to raise a child.

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Lois yearned for motherhood, but it
wasn't so much that she felt a super

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strong maternal drive to procreate, but
more like an obsessive compulsion that had everything

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to do with the image she wanted
to put out in the world. After

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all, a child would complete the
ideal picture that she had in her mind

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of having a perfect family. Not
being able to bring a child into the

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world drove her further into madness.
Oh it's shid. She was determined to

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rectify the situation, and Lois was
an extremely determined woman. When she wanted

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something, she always got it,
and she felt as though this situation would

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be no different. Using the official
channels close to her, Lois managed to

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arrange for the private adoption of a
baby boy named Robert. He was born

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on June twenty second, nineteen sixty
and four days later, on June twenty

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sixth, he was delivered to the
Jurgen's home. Robert was the perfect addition

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and fitted well at the Jurgen's household. It definitely helped that he learned from

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a young age not to get in
his mother's way or cause any undue mess

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that would most likely send her into
a fit of rage. Despite what the

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authorities had originally thought of Lois,
she appeared to be a devout mom.

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Robert grew to be an intelligent,
general and obedient child, and his adoption

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with the Jurgons seemed to be successful
in the eyes of authorities. As time

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passed, Lois had managed to change
their minds. Now, they began to

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read. Lois had managed to change
their minds. Yeah, I remember they

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said that they didn't want her to
adopt, ok, gotcha. Now they

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began to rethink the ideas on her
capabilities as a parent and reconsidered a next

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adoption. Now she's okay to adopt
because she's been doing a good job right.

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As such, when Lois applied for
adoption once again nineteen sixty two,

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the authorities were far more lenient this
second time around. The second child to

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be adopted by Lois and Harold was
one year old peddler named Dennis. The

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little boy had been born to a
seventeen year old teenage mom named Jerry Sherwood.

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At the time, Jerry was in
a bit of trouble, and when

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she gave birth to Dennis, she
was still residing in a home for troubled

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girls. Because of this, she
was convinced by those in charge to put

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her baby up for adoption. She
didn't want to give up her baby,

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but Jerry did as she was told. She was promised that Dennis would go

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to a good home. They would
take good care of him. Dennis spent

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his first year of life in the
foster care of an elderly woman who had

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adored him with endless amounts of love
and the right kind of affection. Now

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things would be different, as he
would have a family and an older brother.

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What could be bad about that?
Tanya? I know, I already

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know. I mean, I don't
know, But what could go wrong?

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You're gonna tell me? And I'm
just really seriously not going to be able

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to handle this. Fucking Everything goes
wrong. Almost from the moment Dennis arrived,

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there were problems that arose. That
is, in Lois's eyes, and

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her eyes alone. She took an
immediate dislike to the little boy who was

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so different from her precious little Robert. After all, Robert had been trained,

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whipped into submission, and ultimately molded
into Lois's perfect vision of an obedient,

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respectful child. She wanted the nuclear
family, and she got that with

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Robert. Dennis, though not so
much. He was quite the opposite,

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which she despised. Dennis was spirited, energetic, and a reimbunctious toddler.

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Okay, that's normal, yeah exactly. In other words, like, yeah,

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he's perfectly normal. I mean,
he's a baby. Apparently, this

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was just too much for Lois to
handle. She was used to the regiment,

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had ways of her household and the
structure that came along with tidiness and

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obedience. In fact, she disliked
Dennis so intensely that Harold actually suggested that

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maybe they shouldn't go through with the
adoption, but Lois disagreed for two reasons.

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The first was she was concerned that
it would discourage agencies and whatnot for

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future adoption, exactly for future adoptions. And her second reason was she decided

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to make Dennis her little project.
She was going to make him conform.

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Plus, it would look bad if
she was taking in a kid and then

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giving him having a failed adoption.
She was just gonna make him into the

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perfect child, like just like Robert. As a result, the adoption went,

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I had is planned and Dennis was
delivered to his new home in December

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nineteen sixty two, when he was
fourteen months old. He didn't know it

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at the time, but he was
being introduced to the family that would end

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up being responsible for his terrible and
faithful demise. It only took a couple

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of months after moving into the Jurgen's
home before Dennis had to be rushed to

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the hospital for first and second degree
burns on his lower abdomen, genitalia,

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and buttocks. Even though the hospital
visit was reported, Lois had somehow managed

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to convince the doctors that this was
just an accident. She blamed the incident

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on Dennis. She claimed that while
she was washing him in the scene,

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he had turned on the hot water
while she left the room only momentarily,

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and by some fucked up miracle,
they actually believed her, like really sixty

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two, yeah, I know.
Somehow, the incident was officially deemed accidental

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and the world went on per usual. This was just the beginning of what

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was going to be a most horrific
two and a half year descent into pure

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hell. I know, it's bad. Unfortunately, the process of adopting Dennis

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was complete, so he was the
Organ's son over time, Dennis went from

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being a free spirited and outgoing little
boy to one who was quit withdrawn and

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beaten down. He was frequently seen
with bruises which were the direct result of

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daily beatings delivered at the hands of
Lois herself, like Harold doing during this

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Harold's doing jack shit just to let
you know he was afraid of Lois too.

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So later family members would speak to
how the little boy was forced to

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wear sunglasses in order to hide black
eyes. Imagine a two year old being

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made to wear sunglasses. Yeah,
mine would never wear them right or pull

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them off their face. Right.
Robert had been taught to recite the Rosary

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at the age of two, and
he did it with ease. But when

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Dennis struggled to achieve this feat,
and he didn't do it so easily,

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he was forced to kneel on a
broomstick handle for extended periods of time,

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leaving him in so much pain that
he barely was able to stand. How

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I supposed to get a two year
old to do the Rosary? I know,

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dude, I don't even know of
the Rosary. I do, but

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I mean, at two, I'm
just hoping they don't poop their pants right

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exactly like, come on, well, Robert could do it. In her

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effort to make Dennis right in her
eyes, Lois embarked on a series of

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sadistic and corporal punishments. She never
made a single excuse for her mistreatment of

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him. If anything, she seemed
proud of it, claiming she was doing

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God's work and making him perfect in
the eyes of the Lord. When Dennis

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would wet is diaper or wet is
bad, Lois's remedy was to place a

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spring action clothes pin upon the head
of his penis all right, Tanya.

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If he couldn't go to the bathroom, he'd be chained to a drain pipe

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near the toilet until he could force
a bow movement. Often, Dennis was

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force fed and made to swallow spicy
foods. If he threw up during this

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cruel treatment, he'd be forced to
eat his own vomit. Fucking hate people,

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I hate people. Lois obsessed about
Dennis's weight, claiming he was too

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big, but according to his medical
records at the time of adoption, doctors

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noted he was the appropriate weight for
a child of his age, and bill

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it didn't matter. Though he was
frequently starved to rid him of quote unquote

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sloppy fat, as Lois called it. She even used the name sloppy fat

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as a nickname due to the frequent
amount of starvation he endured. Dennis gained

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only three pounds during the entire two
and a half year period as he aged

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from one year old to three and
a half years old. This has to

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be messing up Robert too, right, I mean Robert's there. When Dennis

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was permitted to eat, he would
sometimes reject certain foods, just as any

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normal child. My kids reject all
the food back and cheese and ramanules and

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chicken nuggets. Right. However,
when this happened, it piste Lois off

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to high hell, and she responded
by placing horse radish on the food and

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then force feeding it to him.
According to reports from family members who would

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later testify at trial, one told
the story of a time when Dennis turned

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purple from being force fed a bitter
and spicy horse radish whatever and then having

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his oxygen supply cut off as Lois
covered his mouth and nose. This treatment,

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coupled with the exertion as he struggled, made it Dennis sick to the

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point of vomiting. Obviously, this
enraged her and you know what she did.

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I don't have to read, don't
have to repeat it. All the

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reports claimed Lois would often strike Dennis
with her hands, pull and lift him

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up by the ears, whip him
with a belt or a cedar board,

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and frequently kept him tied to his
crib. So, as you mentioned,

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what was Harold doing? Yeah?
Where he was there? And I wondered

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about it while I was reading the
story, like did he intervene? But

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no, The truth was Harold was
intimidated by Lois. He was scared of

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her. Lois was an extremely disturbed
woman who was prone to fly off the

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handle at the slightest annoyance, and
Harold, just like the children, was

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whipped into submission. Well, okay, but he's a grown man. He

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did nothing to help curb the abuse. But he did note that he personally

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never mistreated Dennis. Okay, just
allowed it, just allowed it. Certain

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neighbors and family members knew there were
problems with Lois's treatment of Dennis, but

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they also did nothing to prevent it. They attempted to mind their own business

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and feared retribution from Lois, who
wasn't above threatening them of their own lives,

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like threatening their lives. Yeah,
Lois had quite the reputation amongst those

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of newer which was that she was
an intense, angry woman with a very

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short and volatile temper. Clearly,
in other words, you didn't want to

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get in her way when she was
on a mission to rage. And whatever

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the reason was, Dennis's arrival in
her home provoked sadistic rages that she would

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unleash on him. She was literally
obsessed with abusing him, and she went

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out of her way to make sure
he knew he was the bad child and

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Robert was the good child. Then
one fateful day, Lois took her abuse

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a little too far. Oh boy, here it comes, here it comes.

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On the night of April tenth,
nineteen sixty five, a great flood

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hit the Saint Paul area, with
the Mississippi River waters rising to record levels

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and eventually bursting its banks, causing
widespread destruction in the region. Places of

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businesses and homes were flooding rapidly,
and the Jurgen's home was, unfortunately one

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of them. The water soon poured
into the home and just flooded the basement.

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Lue stood by and watched as the
elements started to destroy this home that

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she worked so hard to make perfect. The very thing that she was most

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proud of was being wiped away right
in front of her eyes, and there

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was nothing she could do to stop
it. So this sent her into a

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crazy fit of rage. And as
always, it was Dennis who bore the

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brunt of her anger. The three
year old was punched, slapped, and

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slammed against the walls. He would
try to make this less sad. I

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know, I know. He was
throttled, thrown down the stairs into the

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flooded basement, and then hurled back
up again by his arm. Lois was

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on a rage rampage. In the
early morning hours of the following day,

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April eleventh, which was Palm Sunday. Dennis's frail body couldn't take an ounce

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more of the punishment, and he
tragically died. Harold and Lois told authorities

207
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pretty much the same story. Dennis
had been suffering from a bad cold the

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morning before Saturday. He had slipped
on the basement floor near the bathroom,

209
00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:56.919
damp from flooding all of that great
stuff, and he struck his head on

210
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the tile. At nine am Sunday
morning, Lois went into Dennis's bedroom,

211
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only to find him gasping for breath
and gurgling. They said they immediately dialed

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the doctor and the police. However, by the time they called it was

213
00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:15.559
nine thirty and the police got their
ten Dennis had already passed. Once brought

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00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:18.880
to the morgue, Dennis was undressed
and stripped of a pair of pajamas,

215
00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:23.599
an undershirt, rubber pants, and
two diapers. I'm thinking they're the cloth

216
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:30.759
diapers. Got those rubber pants in
the arm and Facial bruises continued across virtually

217
00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:34.799
all of Dennis's body, radiating in
every direction, varying from the size of

218
00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:41.400
a dime to a half dollar.
During the autopsy, the pathologists counted from

219
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.880
fifty to one hundred bruises running the
length of Dennis's body. The exact number

220
00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.799
was hard to judge because so many
of them overlapped. They were varied in

221
00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:55.160
color, so some were fresh,
some were black and blue yellow. The

222
00:17:55.279 --> 00:18:00.759
various stages of bruising. They covered
his legs, arms, hands, the

223
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.160
front and back of his head,
his shoulders, his buttocks, the small

224
00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:07.559
of his back, the middle of
his back, everywhere there was I don't

225
00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.680
think there was a spot on this
poor baby that didn't have a bruise.

226
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:17.079
There was also a large, swollen
abrasion on his forehead. There was a

227
00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:21.200
bluish mark on the right side of
his head that started at the temple and

228
00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:26.839
extended to behind his right ear.
There was also a deep ulcerous lesion on

229
00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.400
the base of his penis and dark
bruises on the tip, which looked a

230
00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:37.359
lot like a human bite. I'm
sorry. The coroner noted in his report

231
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that Dennis had almost zero subcutaneous fat, which put him at the level of

232
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a person who had died of starvation. Subcutaneous fat is the kind of fat

233
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:52.039
that we call baby fat, and
you can pinch I get a lot of

234
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:56.400
that. It lies just below the
first two layers of your skin. None

235
00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:00.200
of this, however, was what
killed Dennis. During the intern autopsy,

236
00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:06.480
a quarter inch perforation in the boy's
small bowl was found. The whole had

237
00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:11.920
allowed a fifth of a quart of
infectious fecal matter to flow into his abdominal

238
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:18.319
cavity. It was judged that the
perforation had occurred one to two days before

239
00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:25.680
his death. During that time,
the abdominal cavity's surface tissue normally shiny had

240
00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:32.559
turned all and the pus filled matter
had solidified come on, man forming adhesions

241
00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:37.880
matting together pieces of the bowl,
which were classic symptoms of period tonitis,

242
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:42.720
which is a redness and swelling inflammation
of the lining of your belly or abdomen.

243
00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:48.960
Dennis most likely had died after an
extended period of agonizing pain and needlessly,

244
00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:53.119
as this could have been treated.
At the time, it wasn't known

245
00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:57.400
specifically what caused the fatal blow,
though the injury was later found to have

246
00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:03.640
been beyond a reasonable doubt inflicted by
Lois and the evidence of her constant physical

247
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.880
abuse. While there was some form
of an investigation, it wasn't much.

248
00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:14.640
The case definitely didn't receive the attention
it's so rightfully deserved when it came down

249
00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:18.119
to it, this was a different
time. The society and law enforcement of

250
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:22.279
the mid sixties didn't accept the concept
that a child in a middle class home

251
00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:27.400
could be the target of abuse.
It was simply something that just didn't happen.

252
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:32.240
That being said, it would have
been difficult at the time to prove

253
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:37.279
that Lois had committed murder. I
know, it's just it's crazy souls.

254
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:42.880
In spite of extensive physical evidence pointing
towards severe abuse. The medical examiner didn't

255
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:48.680
classify the death under any of the
standard classifications of accident, suicide, or

256
00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:53.960
murder. He simply marked it deferred. Okay, deferred. That's like,

257
00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:57.440
I don't want to say that's what. That's what. That's Yeah, well,

258
00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:03.119
we'll tell you later. There was
also a great deal's suspicion surrounding Jerome

259
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:08.440
Zuris, who was the brother of
Lois Jurians. He was a police lieutenant

260
00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:12.519
in the town of White Bear Lake. Actually he was the number two of

261
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:18.759
this case. Oh so he investigated. There was a common belief among witnesses,

262
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:23.640
neighbors, and the investigators who eventually
reopened the case that Jerome interfered with

263
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:30.799
the investigation and destroyed incriminating evidence.
Whether this was true or not, Lois

264
00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:36.960
managed to escape the brunt of any
criminal charges. Instead, she would be

265
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.079
faced with the authority's decision to remove
Robert from her kids. That is punishment

266
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:45.759
for her. Yeah, and he
was placed in the custody of his paternal

267
00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:52.000
grandmother. As you just said,
it drove her nuts. Robert would remain

268
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.480
out of her grasp for five long
years. During this time, the Jurgens

269
00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:02.640
spent a small fortune trying to regain
custom through the courts. When that failed,

270
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:07.799
Lois started spewing threats of arson.
Whether these threats were held in any

271
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.559
real weight isn't completely certain to the
paternal grandparents, Is that who she threatening

272
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.559
arson too? Yeah? Yeah?
And one thing that did happen though,

273
00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:21.720
Robert's grandmother would end up dying in
a house fire in nineteen seventy while Robert

274
00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:26.960
was in the hospital recovering from about
of pneumonia. So coincidented coincidents, I

275
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:33.559
think not for this reason, Robert, who was now ten, was returned

276
00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:37.039
to the monsters lair. I believe
the only reason this was allowed to happen

277
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:41.880
was because the Jurgens had hired a
new lawyer who happened to be good friends

278
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:45.759
with the judge who presided over the
juvenile court custody hearing. Not to mention,

279
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:51.240
the couple had finally agreed to be
examined by a county appointed psychiatrist.

280
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:56.599
A Ramsay County social worker her name
was Marion Dinah. Nord later told police

281
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:02.519
she had strongly opposed Robert's return.
Certain Dennis had been killed, but she

282
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:07.079
said she had been discouraged by her
supervisors and the prosecutor from probing into the

283
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:11.480
past. She totally. She was
left with the impression that she wasn't to

284
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.319
get involved in why Robert was taken
in the first place. She was only

285
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:19.279
to study the question of whether it
was okay to return him now, really,

286
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:23.279
really, really, because that sounds
like a great idea. Come on,

287
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:26.880
it's so ridiculous, I know.
In the end, the doctors who

288
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:32.960
checked out Lois both decided she was
okay. Prosecutor in the welfare department were

289
00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:37.079
no longer opposed to Robert's return.
Two years later, in nineteen seventy two,

290
00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:42.359
Robert was joined by four more school
aged children, three brothers and a

291
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:48.240
sister from Kentucky. They joined the
home. Are you kidding me? You're

292
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:52.480
what? No? I know.
The state of Kentucky wanted to get these

293
00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:56.799
four children off of welfare and keep
them together, and placed them in a

294
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Catholic home. The Jurgen's annual salary
was now sixty thousand dollars a year.

295
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:04.240
I think that's really good money for
nineteen seventy two. So they hired a

296
00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:10.359
lawyer to press their case once more. Some of the social workers objected to

297
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:15.039
the adoption, but they were again
shut down by their superiors. Lois had

298
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:19.319
gotten a glowing reference from her pastor
father, Bernard Riser, and that seemed

299
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.839
to be all she needed to set
things in motion. So the children were

300
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:27.359
delivered to their new home and introduced
to their new evil stepmother will not quite

301
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:33.440
a stepmother, but it sounded adopted
mom. By this point, Lois's rage

302
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:37.599
in Mania had gone beyond her ability
to maintain an appearance of normalcy, and

303
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:42.880
people were talking. It didn't take
long for them to relocate to rule Stillwater,

304
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:48.839
Minnesota, possibly in an effort to
escape the gossip of their former neighborhood

305
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:52.920
where Dennis was killed. Despite this, Lois pretty much picked up where she

306
00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:57.119
left off with Dennis, and she
began dolling out savage beatings on the regular.

307
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:02.799
Moreover, she had not lost her
active imagination when it came to dreaming

308
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.640
up the cruelest of punishments. One
time, she grabbed one of the boys

309
00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:11.799
by his ears and slammed his forehead
into a nail protruding from the wahop stop

310
00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:15.480
it I know. Another time,
one of the kids was made to stand

311
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:19.039
barefoot in the snow. On another
occasion, and this is just fucked up.

312
00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:25.079
I don't want to say. Yeah. Lois rubbed a used sanitary napkin

313
00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:30.200
in one of the children's faces,
like really, like I can't like disgusting,

314
00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:33.680
Like why would she do that?
Lois awaked them in the middle of

315
00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:37.279
the night to inspect their rooms,
beating them if she found dust or hangers

316
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:41.440
crossed in the closet. Reminds me
of mommy, dear. I was just

317
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:45.160
gonna say that it reminded me a
little bit of mommy, dearist Lois's bedroom

318
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.480
door squeaked loudly when she opened it, and when they heard that noise,

319
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.920
the children couldn't help but be consumed
by fear. Coming home from school on

320
00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:59.599
the bus, they could see the
Jurgens's driveway from a distance, like from

321
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:03.880
the top of a hill, and
if Lois's gold Buck Skylark was parked there,

322
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:07.319
they would just be terrified to go
home. And before I tell you

323
00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:36.119
more, we're going to take a
break. Sometimes Lois would order Harold to

324
00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:38.480
beat the children. I thought he
didn't do that. Well, he didn't.

325
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:41.759
He would take them into the basement
and tell them to cry loudly while

326
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:45.640
he slapped his own leg During this
period, Lois was once again placed in

327
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:51.400
a psychiatric facility. Eventually, the
four children couldn't take it any longer because

328
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:53.759
Robert never got an either. He
still didn't get any he still didn't get

329
00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:57.240
eye. They couldn't take it any
longer, and they decided to run away,

330
00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:02.000
and they took Robert with that.
They escaped the home and ended up

331
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:07.039
getting help from concerned neighbors, who
then got the police involved. Since the

332
00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:11.839
four Kentucky children were older, they
were able to vividly recount two authorities the

333
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:18.119
daily abuse that they suffered from at
the hands of their foster mother. Adopted

334
00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:22.799
them, No, she didn't adapt
them. They told their sad tale about

335
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:27.519
their impossible living situation, coupled with
their own version of a dictator who ran

336
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:33.839
it. Their former foster mother and
Kentucky visited them after they fled the Jurgenses

337
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.119
home, and she was horrified.
The children she had known as loving,

338
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:42.680
affectionate, and happy were now distrustful
and disoriented. One of the boys later

339
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:48.200
would spend hours on a psychiatrist's couch
trying to black out the pain. Afterward,

340
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:52.640
the decision was quickly made by authorities
to remove the children from Kentucky,

341
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:59.480
but Robert was left to stay with
Lois and Harold. Additionally, could that

342
00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:03.720
makes sense? I know? Additionally, Lewis and Harold were to never again

343
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.920
be allowed to adopt or even foster
children. Lewis of course lost her goddamn

344
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:14.640
mine and raged against this to make
sure that happened a while ago. Yeah,

345
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.160
she threatened to take the matters to
court, but Harold wisely persuaded her

346
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:23.000
against this course of action. He
didn't want to attract any more unnecessary attention.

347
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:26.000
Where would it lead. Right,
So, at this point, Lois

348
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:30.799
had pretty much gotten off scot free
with not only countless acts of cruelty against

349
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:37.079
children, but also the horrendous murder
of poor three year old Dennis. Lucky

350
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:41.680
for us, karma was about to
catch up with Lois armas a bitch yep,

351
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:45.039
it doesn't forgive, and there was
a little bit of justice served.

352
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:48.880
Do you remember I told you about
Dennis's birth mom, Jerry. Yes,

353
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:53.079
Well, at this point in the
story, it's now the early nineteen eighties,

354
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:56.759
and Jerry wasn't a clueless teenager anymore, but a grown woman in her

355
00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:02.720
late thirties who had since married Dennis, his biological father, and had four

356
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:07.160
more children by him, you know. But of course she never forgot about

357
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:11.960
her firstborn. She assumed he would
be a young adult by now, and

358
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:15.759
she wondered if he might like to
get to know her and his younger siblings.

359
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:22.160
So Jerry began making inquiries. She
had called the Ramsey County Welfare Department

360
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:26.640
trying to trace the whereabouts of her
son. Six weeks later they had responded

361
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:30.359
by letter, and that was how
Jerry would make the heartbreaking discovery that Dennis

362
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:34.599
had passed. Oh man, I
know. All it said was quote,

363
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:40.079
sorry to inform you that Dennis Craig
died April eleventh, nineteen sixty five,

364
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:45.960
of paria tenitas, sincerely, and
it came from that county. It came

365
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:49.920
as a shock to her, after
all, he was only three Titus.

366
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:56.559
Jerry began making calls and doing a
ton of research on Dennis and what could

367
00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:00.599
have possibly happened to her precious baby
boy. She just belt in her bones

368
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:04.640
that something awful happened to him and
she needed to know. From the yellowing

369
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:08.880
newspaper notice of his death that she
found during her search, she learned that

370
00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:14.839
the boy's body bore multiple injuries and
bruises. From the death certificate, she

371
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:19.000
learned that while Donnis had died of
periatonitis due to a ruptured bowl, the

372
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:25.000
coroner had never ruled whether the death
was an accident, homicide, or natural

373
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:29.960
causes. They just buried him and
that was it. Jerry had somehow managed

374
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.359
to get a telephone number for Lois
Jergins, so she called her. Oh

375
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.880
shit, right. While they were
talking, Lois acted taken aback at the

376
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:42.000
fact that no one ever informed a
Jerry of the boy's death. She appeared

377
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:48.039
very compassionate as she told tales of
happy, healthy, cute Dennis. Lois

378
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:53.559
was kind, polite, and even
promised to send Jerry some mementos of Dennis's.

379
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:56.640
However, the keepsakes never arrived,
and when Jerry made a follow up

380
00:30:56.680 --> 00:31:02.079
call to the Jergins residence, she
discuss heard that Lois had since switched to

381
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:07.880
an unlisted phone number. Obviously,
this immediately perked her suspicion, Right,

382
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:11.680
you know, I'd be like m
that seems a little weird. So Jerry

383
00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:17.880
took it upon herself and did her
due diligence. With Dennis's death certificates still

384
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:22.799
classified as deferred, the case was
technically still open. This factor, grouped

385
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:27.200
together with the lack of a statute
of limitations for a murder charge, she

386
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:33.000
pretty much paved the way toward the
prosecution of Lois. Right then, she

387
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:37.680
decided she was going to take up
this matter with the White Bear Lake Police

388
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:41.960
Department. She was convinced that her
son had been beaten to death and demanded

389
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:45.000
the case be reopened. She asked
to see the police report, which read

390
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:48.920
as follows quote. Dennis was lying
on his back in the crib with his

391
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:56.680
arms totly stretched alongside his body.
The hands and forearms reaching upward lifted stiff

392
00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:00.799
eight inches off the mattress, bed
covers pulled up mortis Yeah. Bed covers

393
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:06.319
pulled up to below his armpits obscured
the lower part of Dennis's body, but

394
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:09.559
a good number of black and blue
spots could still be seen all over the

395
00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:13.920
boy's face, head, in arms. There were at least a dozen bruises

396
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:16.440
on the face alone, which ranged
in size and shades of color. A

397
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:22.400
big, harsh abrasion covered the center
of his forehead. Dennis's nose was blood

398
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:25.319
red and peeling, so red it
looked like if you wiped it once the

399
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:29.960
skin would pull away. It just
didn't make sense to Jerry. There were

400
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.039
also so many mishaps throughout the case
as a whole. For starters, there

401
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:37.880
were pieces of the case file that
had gone missing, such as crime scene

402
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:43.279
photos. That's where you were saying
about the brother. Yeah, witness testimonies

403
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:46.799
were missing, and there were reports
of people coming forward to give their statement

404
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:52.640
and then being threatened later because they
didn't recount their birds man. Also,

405
00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:58.119
authority figures that had originally witnessed something
amplified would later recount what they saw as

406
00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:00.680
nothing out of the ordinary. Oh
no, it wasn't that big of a

407
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:05.519
deal. Okay. There were a
lot of pieces of the case. It

408
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:08.920
seemed to be hush hushed or swiped
under the rug without a second glance.

409
00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:15.160
No one wanted to get their hands
dirty with something we as a society still

410
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:20.680
didn't fully understand and definitely were not
the least bit educated in children from middle

411
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:24.799
class homes were just not routinely killed
by their parents or by those who were

412
00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:30.960
supposed to have loved them the most. Jerry contacted the Medical Examiner's office in

413
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:35.480
Ramsay County to see if she could
get more information. Pathologists by the name

414
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:39.519
of doctor Michael B. McGee met
Jerry there. Doctor McGee found the autopsy

415
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:45.759
report in Inside the file were pictures
of Dennis as he appeared all those years

416
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:50.079
ago, and doctor McGee wasn't prepared
for what he saw. He said,

417
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:53.559
quote that little boy laying on an
autopsy table, completely nude, and he's

418
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:58.720
just covered with bruises. His face
is covered in them. He has a

419
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:02.599
large bruise on his head, reason
his abdomen is descended. I said,

420
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:07.360
well, this is a homicide and
we need to find out what happened.

421
00:34:07.639 --> 00:34:10.920
After seeing the pictures, it was
decided that in order to find out what

422
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:19.000
happened, Dennis would have to be
exhumed. The body of Dennis Jurgens was

423
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:22.599
dressed in a blue outfit with a
long sleeved white shirt, and shockingly,

424
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:28.159
his body was very well preserved,
even though Dennis had been buried more than

425
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:31.639
twenty years. At that point,
doctor McGee wanted to find out his exact

426
00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:36.320
cause of death, and he worked
hard until he found it. He didn't

427
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:40.840
give up, and that's when he
found out what killed him. And when

428
00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:45.480
he did, he was positive that
it wasn't an accident, that he didn't

429
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:47.800
pass away from an accident to teach
use something ractali to him. No,

430
00:34:50.199 --> 00:34:53.880
thank god right, it was the
period to nitis. That's why I thought

431
00:34:53.880 --> 00:35:00.119
it was something kid. He said
that children do fall down and they get

432
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:05.960
injured and they do hurt themselves.
But the way that he was injured,

433
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:09.880
there was no way it could be
an accident. The force of his injuries

434
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:15.199
just couldn't have happened just by him
slipping and falling. So when Jerry found

435
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:17.960
this out, she went to the
local media with this information, and she

436
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:22.960
wasn't going to stop until somebody really
listened to her. On Sunday, October

437
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:28.880
twelfth, the Saint Paul Pioneer Press
ran a story on the investigation, praising

438
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:34.239
Jerry for her tenacity and writing about
the tragedy of her personal loss. As

439
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.159
luck would have it, one of
those who read the story was none other

440
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:42.400
than Robert Robert Yeah, who as
a five year old had been a witness

441
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:45.559
to the murder. Now a twenty
seven year old adult and police officer,

442
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:51.079
he's a police officer, Robert decided
it was time to come forward and tell

443
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:55.199
what he knew. At his mother's
trial, Robert recounted the events of that

444
00:35:55.280 --> 00:36:01.400
evening, including Lois's extensive beating of
Dennis and his being thrown down the stairs

445
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:05.960
by her. He said, quote, Dennis used to cry try to get

446
00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:08.960
away. Later on, Dennis didn't
do as much crying, and he didn't

447
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:14.320
do any running away. I would
recall that he more or less submitted and

448
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:17.199
would just kind of whimper and not
get into that heavy crying. He gave

449
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:22.079
up. Mmmm. I don't know
exactly the reason why, but I cherished

450
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:24.400
my mother. I did everything she
said. I ate my food, I

451
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:29.239
picked up my toys. I kept
an eat and Dennis didn't, and as

452
00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:35.960
a result, Dennis received more traumatic
rippermands. In the days preceding Dennis's death,

453
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:39.440
he remembered Lois in the basement,
dunking Dennis's head and a laundry tub

454
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:45.400
full of water. She was holding
his head there until Dennis was gasping and

455
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:49.599
crying, trying to Breathe riding his
tricycle in the basement. Soon after that,

456
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:54.440
Robert remembered hearing several loud thuds,
then seeing Dennis rolling very fast and

457
00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:59.599
landing hard at the base of the
stairs on his stomach. Then his mother

458
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:02.599
came down the stairs after him,
hollering at Dennis picking him up, shaking

459
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:07.280
him and hitting him. As for
the night Dennis died, Robert remembered it

460
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:10.960
well. He said, it was
storming out, thundering and lightning. Remember

461
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:14.920
the flood. Yeah, he was
afraid to go to bed, but he

462
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.159
did finally. The next thing he
heard were screams coming from Dennis's room.

463
00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:22.920
The following morning, he said,
quote, I remember waking up hearing loud

464
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:27.360
screams. I went to Dennis's bedroom. I saw Lois picking Dennis up out

465
00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:30.039
of his crib. She kept yelling
his name, Dennis, Dennis, Dennis.

466
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:34.480
His arms were limp like a dish
towel, and he was just swaggering

467
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.400
his arms and his legs. Something
was wrong and his head was moving back

468
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:42.880
and forth uncontrollable due During the trial, when asked if he thought his mother

469
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:47.199
was responsible for Dennis's death, Robert
said yes. Doctor McGee testified also at

470
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:52.039
the trial, and he went into
detail about how hard he would have had

471
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:55.400
to have fallen for it to injure
him like it did. And I'm not

472
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:00.199
going to describe it any further.
Thank you, You're welcome. And nighteen

473
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:05.320
eighty seven, Lois was convicted of
third degree murder of third degree now,

474
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:09.800
and she was sentenced to a maximum
of twenty five years in prison. Okay.

475
00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:15.159
Unfortunately, she would serve only eight
years of her sentence before she was

476
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:21.559
released on good behavior and paroled in
nineteen ninety five. It's just I'm just

477
00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:24.760
happy she got some time. She
returned to Stillwater, Minnesota, where she

478
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:30.519
lived with her husband, Harold until
Harold Harold you son of a bitch,

479
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:35.360
seriously, and Harold died in two
thousand. At that time, Lois was

480
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:39.360
initially suspected of poisoning him. Oh
However, he was in failing health and

481
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:45.360
his autopsy results didn't indicate poisoning,
so there was really I wouldn't either.

482
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:52.039
There was also talk years earlier of
her having started the fire at her which

483
00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:54.280
killed her mother in law, and
she really never got along with her mother

484
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:58.599
in law, so people were like, m it would make sense. Lois

485
00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:01.800
would live for another thirteen year years. She died on May seventh, twenty

486
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:05.960
thirteen, at the age of eighty
seven. Wow. Until the end,

487
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.679
she insisted she was innocent, of
course, of all the accusations against her.

488
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.079
I was a great mom. I
was a great mom. I loved

489
00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:15.199
her. All those kids are just
lying. Yeah, everybody's lying. During

490
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:19.360
the years to follow, a much
needed evolution unfolded in this country, the

491
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:22.800
idea of child abuse. It was
finally exposed and people do believe it now

492
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:28.800
and it can happen to anybody.
It wasn't until nineteen seventy five that Minnesota

493
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:34.079
adopted legislation regarding the reporting and mail
treatment of miners. In nineteen seventy one,

494
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:37.760
the term battered child syndrome made its
first appearance in a case that reached

495
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:43.840
the Minnesota State Supreme Court. The
investigation, trial, and conviction are considered

496
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:47.760
landmarks in the history of child abuselaw. I didn't know that that concerning Lois

497
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:53.440
And with that is my that's the
end of my horrorfic story for a little

498
00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:58.400
Dennis. And you know, thanks
for really putting me in a bad fucking

499
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:02.079
I'm so sorry. I know this
was just why even't I heard of this

500
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:05.400
woman? But I'm kind of glad
I didn't know about her. But you

501
00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:08.039
know what we should do to make
it better? Review the review of the

502
00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:14.920
reviewer. Yes, that one that
is necessary at this point. Okay,

503
00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:16.119
to Leah, are you going to
read it to me? Read it to

504
00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:22.199
you? Do you want to hear
the bad review or the good review first?

505
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:24.400
I don't care. Okay, then
I'm gonna start with the bad review.

506
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:28.800
Oh great, just kick me when
I'm down. So we received an

507
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:35.119
email just yesterday from Kim and this
is what Kim had to say. Okay,

508
00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:38.159
ladies, I used to really like
your podcast but had to stop.

509
00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:43.679
You don't need to go into all
the gory details to get the story across.

510
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:47.960
The constant oh my god from Tanya
is the most annoying thing ever?

511
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:52.039
Can you say that from me?
Oh my god? I think that's beautiful.

512
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:57.719
God, I don't know. She
can fuck off? All that comes

513
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.840
across as a joke with no respect
to the victims. Is that it?

514
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:06.599
And that's it? Well, I'm
gonna give her a one motherfucking star because

515
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:08.639
I love it when you say,
oh my god, what should you say?

516
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:14.239
What should I say? And my
reactions are genuine, Yeah you know

517
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:17.000
what, she can fuck off?
Yeah she can fuck off and good riddance.

518
00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:21.800
And how did you like us before? But not like us now?

519
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:25.679
Because you've been saying, oh my
god, I know since day one and

520
00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:30.519
we've been going into the gory details
since day one. Exactly. I don't

521
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:34.920
understand her email. Yeah, so
I have not responded, but I plan

522
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:37.719
to. I just haven't decided what
we can just respond this way. Yeah

523
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:43.199
that's true with ah fuck off.
You get a one star. I wanted

524
00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:46.000
to be like, Okay, well
then go listen to your crime tongue.

525
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:52.239
She rated crime. Go for it. I'm sorry you don't appreciate. Oh

526
00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:54.960
my god, god, but that's
what bothers her, not like what the

527
00:41:55.039 --> 00:41:59.280
fuck? Yeah that doesn't Yeah,
exactly what the fuck is? This ship

528
00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:00.960
doesn't bother her, but the Oh
my god. So in the future,

529
00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:05.880
I'm gonna come up with some more
some different reactions. Okay, and you're

530
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:10.920
gonna laugh every single fucking time because
they're gonna be stupid. She gets a

531
00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:15.199
one star. What do you think? One star? One star for Kim.

532
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:17.960
Thank you, Kim for input.
We really appreciate it. Go fuck

533
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:27.119
yourself. Fuck yourself. I love
you so much. Yeah, go fuck

534
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:32.039
yourself. Where gonna that come from? Okay? So this is the good

535
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:37.079
review and it kind of is like
similar topics. That's why it's I'm gonna

536
00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:42.159
laugh right. Okay, So this
person is Randy Text and they just left

537
00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:46.599
this review this past Tuesday, it's
a five star review. Love These Ladies

538
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:52.559
one of my favorite podcasts. They
keep it real and allow their own disgust

539
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:55.519
for the criminal of the week.
Normally I would rather hear the story without

540
00:42:57.079 --> 00:43:00.440
slant by the host, but the
timing of reactions is and doesn't feel scripted.

541
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:04.760
Keep up the great work. That's
because it's not scripted. Yeah,

542
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:10.480
exactly, it's definitely definitely not scripted. Yeah, not never scripted. Nope.

543
00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:15.639
So you gets five stars. Yeah, and it's funny because like one

544
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:19.199
person likes that, one person doesn't. You can't make everybody happy, No,

545
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:22.239
you can't barely make anybody happy.
That's why there's just tons of other

546
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:24.039
podcasts you can listen to if you
don't like it. Yeah, you can

547
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:31.679
go go listen to those fuck off
but Randy, that was very very nice

548
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:36.480
of you, very nice of you. Thank you not scripted like some of

549
00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:42.800
the podcasts I may have just mentioned
two minutes ago, exactly. So if

550
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:46.000
you haven't already, please hit the
subscriber follow button on whatever app you're listening

551
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:49.880
to us on. It really helps
us out. Thank you for tuning in

552
00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:53.119
this week. If you love us
so much that you want extra episodes and

553
00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:59.079
you haven't subscribed to Patreon or through
our Apple channel, you should. You

554
00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:04.679
should because there's just as many Patreon
episodes as there are public episodes public,

555
00:44:04.840 --> 00:44:07.360
so check them out sometimes more because
there's minis. Yeah, so there's there's

556
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:14.239
morning yeah. And you can get
our public episodes am free and early.

557
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:17.360
It's released early yeah, yeah,
Fridays instead of Monday. You can find

558
00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:22.920
out information about that on our website
Crimes and Consequences dot com, or go

559
00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:28.320
to patreon dot com slash t nt
crimes. Oh my god, oh my

560
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:34.880
god, oh my god, I'm
my god, oh my god. That's

561
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:37.760
what you gotta dona change it up
a little bit. Then it's gonna see

562
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:40.800
it sound ridiculous. We're gonna laugh
and we're gonna be laughing about child abuse.

563
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:44.440
No, that's not funny. No
it's not funny. No it's not

564
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:46.320
and my, oh my gods,
are not funny. No. I'm like

565
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:50.480
shocked, genuinely shocked. I told
you I'm gonna come up with some new

566
00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:52.880
ones. All right, we'll make
a list, so everybody pay attention next

567
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:57.079
time, Tully. It tells a
story. Yes, I can't wait.

568
00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:00.360
I can't wait to see her list. Be like I Corumba. I don't

569
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:04.880
know what. I don't know.
I don't know, he gads, I

570
00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:07.480
don't know what is that? Is
that a word? Yes, it's a

571
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:12.679
word. Is it English? Yeah? Heads, Corumba is not English,

572
00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:15.360
but I understand that. I'm not
stupid. I know, but what is

573
00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:19.320
it? Gads? I don't know, he gads. I know it sounds

574
00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:23.960
ridiculous, right, Hannah. That
sounds like some Canadians would say, Oh,

575
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:31.000
I know, everyone, don't kill
each other. Bye,