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Hello, everyone, and welcome to
the show. I'm Martin Willis your host,

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and thank you for being here.
It's a Sunday afternoon and I really

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appreciate it. And our guest is
in Germany and it's eight o'clock at night.

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That's why he's on now. And
I wanted to get this ahead of

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our regular show, which is usually
on Tuesdays, and we'll be next week

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and so not next week, but
the following week Jack Silwell will be on,

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so this this podcast will be coming
out of the normal time on Tuesday

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nights. And again I appreciate everyone
that touch has shown up on the door

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here on YouTube. And I'm really
excited about our guests because I kept hearing

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about this website the debrief and it
was mysterious and launching on November thirtieth,

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and we're all waiting in the UFO
field, a bunch of people who are

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emailing me from Australia, you name
it, from everywhere. So the day

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comes on the thirtieth and the website
is down. I'm going to talk to

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him about it. It crashed,
and it crashed over and over again.

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A lot of anticipation on this,
so I like the way I heard Tim

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put this, uh, disruptive technology. That's that's one of the things I

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want to report on UM and I
think we're going to see more and more

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of that as time goes on.
And UFO was a part of that.

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That's kind of what they're they're reporting
on UM. And you know, there's

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there's been some harsh critic on some
things, for instance, a Milar possible

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Milar balloon on one of the one
of the articles. And he makes no

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bones about he's putting the information out
there. He's not an expert. It's

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up to the experts to check it
out and come up with answers if they

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would like. He's not saying it's
a UFO like he's more or less saying

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what is it that type of thing. But anyway, we have a blog

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over on our website and that's Podcast
UFO and it is called as Soon as

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I Find It. These are a
weekly by Charles Lear. He also does

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an audio blog that comes out usually
on Friday's. Ironically, the name of

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the blog is called UFOs and Balloons
and there's a lot of stories about UFOs

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and balloons going all the way back
to the nineteen forty eight. The Gorman

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dog Fight and there's some Project Bluebook
balloon cases and things like that. It's

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very interesting. Another great blog by
Charles Lear and so I also want to

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thank everyone that supports a show.
Anyone can do that over at podcast ufo.

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You can see the link to Patreon
and for two dollars or more a

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month or yearly payments, you can
do that as well. I appreciate everyone

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that does support the show. I
appreciate everyone that listens to the show.

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And coming up in a few weeks
right before Christmas, so I'm going to

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give out some T shirts. And
we do have T shirts and merchandise available

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on our website as well, and
that's basically under merchandise tab on the website.

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So our guest, I am going
to let him introduce himself. He's

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a very interesting guy. Again,
he's in Germany. He's been in law

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enforcement for over sixteen years and here
he is. Tim McMillan. Welcome to

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the show, Tim, Hey Martin, how's it going there? Yeah?

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Really glad? Really glad you were
uh, you know, you wanted to

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come on the show and talk about
what you're up to, because you certainly

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caused quite a stir when that website
went up. Yeah, no, thanks

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for having me. One idea was
that to launch it with you know,

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on a time schedule like that,
I was brilliant. It just kind of

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came about it, and I don't
want to you know, there's there was

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a lot of moving parts. So
this, uh, the debrief is really

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the brain child of me. Um
my good buddies m J Banias and Mica

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Hanks, who I think you're You're
familiar with both on my show a few

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times. Sure, yeah, see
I got to catch up to them then

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es muchly my first um but we
were good friends. We're good friends outside

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of uh, you know, professional
life and uh you know, Mike is

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a professional podcaster. MJ was working
advice and popular mechanics with me writing and

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U we kind of got you know, we in talking and chatting and everything.

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We would get frustrated because and ironically
enough, we didn't want to just

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cover the UFO subject. But when
we did cover the UFO subject, we

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get frustrated because, you know,
especially there were a lot of articles that

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me and MJ teamed up together with
or you know that I did myself,

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maybe went out through vice somebody else, and we put a lot of effort

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into it, and frankly, there
were straight news articles that if the subject

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was anything but UFOs, you know, it would be completely normal, like

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you know, they would be you
know, important articles, but we would

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turn them in and then we would
when we finally see him published, they'd

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have a splashy, punchy headline and
uh, you know, like a picture

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of Tom DeLong. You know,
I remember doing an article on the Senate

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Intelligence Committee and then you see your
article on the there's you know, you

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know Tom DeLong as UFOs. They're
now being discussed in Congress and you're like,

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so, uh, you know,
we decided to do our own thing,

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and uh, the kind of win
to launch and all of that good

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schedule stuff. We really this was
supposed to be a soft launch, just

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so you know, we're supposed to
be working out all the kinks from the

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you know, the first to December
until January when we really try to push

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the site. But things, as
you alluded to, took off, Ted

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Ted Crazier. There's a little a
little bigger than we expected, at least

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in the first week, that's for
sure. Did you have to change anything

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about your your your server because your
website kept crashing. Yep. No,

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and that was the first two days
actually, November thirtieth and December. First

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we were good. Um it was
Wednesday when I dropped the fast Movers article.

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Uh yeah, no, we you
know, there was more. We

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got more traffic than we ever intended
with that first article and the people coming

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just flooding it instantly. So actually
yeah, behind the scenes, um,

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you know, people didn't realize it, but we were frantically. Uh.

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We actually brought in a new another
friend of ours, who's you know,

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our computer whiz, our webmaster.
Um, who was able to come in,

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and that's Steve McDaniel by the way, the founder of sky Hub.

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Um. Oh yeah, Steve's a
great guy. Thank God bless him because

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you know those last from from Wednesday
on to about Saturday involved him and Mica

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taking everything moving it on to a
new server. And admittedly I'm not the

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computer guy and so that's not easy. I've done that. Yeah, God

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bless him because they they've got it
zipping out. Now we could handle anything.

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But yeah, those first days,
um, they were rough. And

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yeah, it was it was rough
when especially when that the fast mover article

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came out and you're like, ah, but nobody can get through. It

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was just there was a point where
we thought we were facing a denial of

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service attack, not because of the
UFO topic, but the day prior I

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had actually written an article about the
assassination of the Iranian nuclear scientists, and

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so I was thinking, Oh,
we're getting hit by Iran pasting us.

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Yeah, and there was some slide
evidence that that was going on. But

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then we figured out there was some
errors on our part and a lot of

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traffic on everybody else's part. So
luckily I think we've got it fixed now.

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Yeah, Hey, if I I
want to go into one of these

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stories here, but before before we
do one thing I like to do here,

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and I think people like it.
I'm not sure. But then it's

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I like to hear about your background. I know you have a background of

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law enforcement, but actually I want
to know more about you and what you

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know. How you became interested in
this topic. I know it's one of

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many, but you have an interest
in but I'd like to hear that.

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Sure. No, No, like
long walks on the beach and uh,

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everything I've ever done has either been
by accident, and it all centers on

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the fact that I am just captivated
by mysteries. I love solving mysteries,

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and so I've told people after very
you know, coming very close to actually

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going to rabbatical school, becoming a
rabbi of all things, where the people

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believe it or not. I was
in college to be I couldn't decided I

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want to be an astronomer or a
research psychologist research cognitive psychologists, because I

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thought those were the two biggest mysteries
in the world, a human mind in

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the universe. And so of course
that translated into me going into law enforcement

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at twenty one years old. And
that was I actually just kind of shared

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that recently on another show, But
that was that was a result of two

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friends I had grown up with where
actually I was home for summer during college,

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and uh, they were murdered during
a home invasion. So it was

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just really tragic event. Yeah,
that made me decide to go on law

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enforcement because I wanted to do something, and so still ended up finishing my

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undergrad and tried to balance graduate school
and policing. But that was a little

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difficult, especially I got married and
started having kids. But my kind of

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niche and law enforcement. I did
a little bit of everything. But I

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was a violent crimes investigator, but
my primary kind of focus was always I

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stuck with my psychology background. So
I was a behavioral analyst, intelligence criminal

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intelligence analyst, which is a nice
way of saying profiler. Now, I

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was a certified profiler, and I
used to teach classes at JUNK. I

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was a certified instructor, all kind
of focusing on interviews and interrogations, cognitive

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psychology, all of this niggy neat
little stuff like that. Until for about

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sixteen years, close to seventeen years, I just had my fill and took

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early retirement and worked for a year
as an investigator and an intelligence analyst for

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a private law firm for my wife, who's a kindergarten teacher for the Department

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of Fence of all things. Got
an opportunity for us to move to Germany,

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um and so we kind of jumped
to that. So I've been living

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in Germany now for about a year
and so now I just kind of work

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from home, writing investigating full time
now now working in the debrief. Do

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you like Germany? Sure? Yeah, I know it's been a great experience.

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We're, you know, about thirty
minutes from France. Belgium or Luxembourg

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in every direction. Wow, yes, yes, a lot of great.

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Once the pandemic passes, I think
it'll be a lot more fun because that's

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exactly. Yeah. I've been like
to talk to you. Thank you for

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that all that. I'd like to
talk to you about this article because I

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knew this really this is where everybody
was sending me right off the atum,

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which which ended up this is what
I told you off air. You know

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that I liked about your Your response
on this is you know, you're just

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reporting this, You're not You're not
saying this is definitely an unexplained UFO.

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You're just saying this is a UFO
at this at this point. And then

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people right away said, hey,
you know they figured out it was the

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Batman balloon. Now I'm not sure
if that's if they're one hundred percent right,

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I don't know if they're one hundred
percent right, What are your thoughts

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on that? Sure? Well,
and I mean, honestly, the the

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origins for that article and that photo
started the day before with the fast Movers

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article. Um and uh. I
don't know if you had a chance to

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read that one, but that one, that one was always the big piece

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that was going to come out.
It was the fast Movers article. Uh,

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and that's the one where I reported
on. If you're looking at the

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site, you probably have to go
up there to defense the little tab at

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the top and um, scroll down
and you should be able to find um.

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Sorry, no, no, no
problem, you can find it in

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there. That was here we go, all right, right there, there

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you go. If you scroll down, let's see. Yeah, there you

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go. The green one that's mover
is transmitted. Yeah. So the origin

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of the photo was was this article. I mean, this was the big

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one that I was working on.
This is where I have you found out

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about a half a year ago about
the first intelligence memo that have been published

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and release to the intelligence community,
and then subsequently found at about the second

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one shortly after it was released in
September, along with getting the emails from

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the Joint chiefs of Staff, and
so we never intended to publish the photo

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at first. And in fact,
you know, people have been confused about

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this, but we actually didn't have
a releasable copy of that photo until this

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first article was published. I you
know, any copies that we had or

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any materials that we had beforehand were
all to verify the credibility and back up

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and substantiate these intelligence reports that have
been issued out, but they weren't releasable

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stuff. It was always for just
verifying that the information we'd be reporting on

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was correct, because unfortunately, you
know, everybody that I spoke to,

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they are active, you know,
they weren't supposed to be talking. They

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aren't active members of the Intelligence Committee, are Intelligence community or Department of Defense,

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and they or you know, the
information they were describing were housed on

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various classified systems and so they weren't
supposed to talk about it. So we

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didn't have anything we should share it. But then the following day after this

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article was published, and this is
the one that actually crashed us. Initially,

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I think we got we got things
fairly working, fairly good. But

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that's next day when we released a
photo. But after after initially publishing this

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article, um a, you know, a civilian research UFO researcher messaged me

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and uh, they shared a photo
of a photo of that balloon photo that

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we released and said, hey,
have you seen this. Well, at

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that point, um in any bets
that we had initially of stuff that we

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wouldn't release in terms of that photo, we're off and so because it had

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leaked to the wild obviously, and
so then that that next morning, you

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know, so by the time we
got that, you know, within six

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hours, we released a balloon the
quote balloon photo and kicked off balloon gate.

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I guess, yeah, And um, so what are we looking at

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right now on the on the screen
here? Sure? Now this video I

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included in in that initial article.
Frankly, I think is one of the

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most fascinating videos that's kind of been
forgotten about, our overlooked. This video

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was initially shot in nineteen ninety three
in over Nelli's range over a portion you

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know, which famously known as Area
fifty one, although this was not filmed

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over what is technically Area fifty one. This is just the area. But

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this video I was a I got
a full this is the full twelve minute

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copy of this video, and I
got it from a good buddy of mine,

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Nick Cook, wrote the Hunt for
Zero Point out of the UK.

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Good friend of mine and we had
spoken last year and we were talking about

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the tic TAC and all these things, and he said, you know,

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there's a video from the nineties.
I remember that kind of reminds me of

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this, and a year later he
ended up finding the copy and send it

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00:16:48,039 --> 00:16:52,720
to me. Now, this video, I think a very small portion of

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this video was actually shown on Inside
Edition, I think in the mid nineties,

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00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:03,639
about thirty second clip of it.
But but the full entire twelve minute

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00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,920
version of this video, there are
not a lot of copies of around there.

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00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,359
I think I may have found one
other on YouTube. But since we

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had one, I uploaded it and
wanted to enter you wanted to include it

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00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:22,440
in this article because they it's interesting, you know, I think the story

218
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behind how it came about, and
I acknowledge in the kind of comments that

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in the YouTube there the video is
they seem dubious. They were. You're

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00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:41,200
looking at a recording of a screen
monitorum by a mobile radar station in Nelli's

221
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range, actually two separate ones.
About the midway point of this video,

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it'll switch to the second radar station. However, what we're looking at I

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don't think has ever I've not seen
any satisfactory explanation. And if you go

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to the the comment section of the
video, there's some great links. There

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00:18:02,839 --> 00:18:06,680
was a gentleman whose name escapes me
at the moment and I apologize who did

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a phenomenal analysis of it going back
to the mid nineties and so we linked

227
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:18,000
all of his work. But I'm
not aware of anybody being able to kind

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of identify what this is. And
for me, one of the things that

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really intrigues me is some of the
movements by the object, and especially I

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think when you first cut it on
you might have noticed, you'll you'll think,

231
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initially, you know, there you
go, you see how it just

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jumps around. Yeah, that's not
consistent. That's not normal what you're seeing

233
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there, you know, And it
would be hard for like a drone to

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do something. I mean, I
first thought is it looks like a drone.

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I know, this is the nineteen
nineties. But then for anything to

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move like that unless it's a camera
that's moving, you know. Sure,

237
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I thought it was the camera at
first. And some of the angles were

238
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the where the background is a little
clearer, you can actually kind of set

239
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your position on the background. And
at one point there's a shot where the

240
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camera you can actually see the mountains
of Nelli's range in the background, and

241
00:19:17,319 --> 00:19:22,440
um, so it's not the camera
that's jumping around there. And it's fascinating

242
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,039
to me. I mean, it
reminds me this was probably one of the

243
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:33,079
most compelling interviews when I early started
getting interested in investigating this stuff, when

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I spoke with one of the pilots
during the Nimis incident, one of the

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00:19:37,839 --> 00:19:42,880
Commander Fravers wingman who hasn't come forward. Oh really, the actually spoke to

246
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:51,480
that person, yeah, and had
great conversation and she uh, you know,

247
00:19:51,559 --> 00:19:53,000
one of the things in fact,
she was she was willing to go

248
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on the record and come out,
but the Navy she's still actively in the

249
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US Navy, and so they shot
it down. But um, which is

250
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,039
unfortunate because I think if people,
uh, you've often heard her referred to

251
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,920
in as the story has been told
now as the new girl and these types

252
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:14,480
of things. But I wish people
could get an idea of what her her

253
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background is, or you know,
her career from two thousand and four to

254
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,640
today, because it wasn't that her
first flight though, or something like that,

255
00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:27,200
something crazy. She was. She
was about she was about a year

256
00:20:27,599 --> 00:20:30,960
out of flight school. That was
her first time being attached. You know,

257
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,880
the process to be a fighter pilot's
pretty lengthy, and this was her

258
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:40,079
first attachment to Oh I see the
operational fleet and getting ready for her deployment.

259
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,759
But I mean she uh, you
know, she she does. She

260
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she wants to reserve her anonymity since
the Navy won't come out, so I

261
00:20:47,279 --> 00:20:51,920
won't give too many detals. But
she's done some pretty incredible things and including,

262
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,960
but not limited to, and this
is no jab at Commander Fravran because

263
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I think he's a great guy.
But out of that whole crew, um,

264
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she is the only one who has
actually spent boots on the ground time

265
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,480
in a war zone for over a
year. She was an Afghanican and so

266
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she's a very very accomplished pilot.
And so for her testimony here years later,

267
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,559
it's very compelling. But Shell,
I think she told me that really

268
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unnerved her the most when they encountered
that object. And I don't think it's

269
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,680
something that Commander Fravver saw or it's
definitely not something that he's hit on,

270
00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:30,759
as you see there where it kind
of jumps um was that when she first

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saw the tic TAC it was bouncing
around like, you know, almost like

272
00:21:37,519 --> 00:21:40,920
a house fly or a ping pong. Like, Yeah, in a way,

273
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:42,680
it's funny you said that, because
in a way that's what this thing

274
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looked like that we were looking at. It almost looks like a flag would

275
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:52,599
would do. Yep, yep,
you know that's that's exactly exactly. That's

276
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why I included it. That's why
I think that that video personally, I

277
00:21:56,079 --> 00:22:00,519
think could be an extreme. It
could be very much like the NIMBS case

278
00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:03,440
where you've got one that leaked out
many years earlier and we're kind of just

279
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,279
discredited and people didn't pay attention to
it. But you could be looking at

280
00:22:08,319 --> 00:22:12,240
something very compelling because you can see
there it's jumping and right there, and

281
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:18,920
you can see the horizon didn't move. That's not the camera that yeah,

282
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um, I mean that's you know, like I said, my background's in

283
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a lot of behavioral investigation and um
so I assess things kind of from a

284
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human behavior standpoint. And when you're
designing aerospace platforms, you're designing new technology.

285
00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:37,759
It doesn't matter whether it's an autonomous
drone or if you're designing a new

286
00:22:37,799 --> 00:22:42,640
stealth aircraft. It's all going to
function in something that makes sense for you

287
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,240
or human beings because that's who's designing
it. So when you see these kind

288
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,519
of nonsensical movements, it doesn't exactly
make sense. It doesn't comport with with

289
00:22:53,559 --> 00:22:56,119
what we could design something. So
for me, that's always been very very

290
00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:03,480
interesting. M yeah itself, that's
one I think we need to look at

291
00:23:03,759 --> 00:23:08,119
more, right, Yeah, yeah, that's they that that is one that

292
00:23:08,279 --> 00:23:12,079
could really use some analysis on this
one. And this particular thing that we're

293
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:17,680
showing here. Now, this is
what I heard about from so many people

294
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was, hey, there's this was
going around and the intelligence well quote unquote

295
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:30,960
viral in the intelligence department as a
not this is a this is not the

296
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:36,160
original picture. This is uh someone, it's a recreation, a rendition of

297
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,880
what was seen. But from what
I understood, this thing, now correct

298
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,200
me if I'm wrong, supposedly came
up out of the Atlantic or the ocean.

299
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,440
I'm not sure what Atlantic, Pacific
or whatever, but came up out

300
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,559
of the ocean and the pilot start
took a picture of it, and then

301
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:57,920
it moved away like vertically on its
side. Is that is that kind of

302
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,759
Is it close? That's well,
that's it's close. The yes, And

303
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,400
I want to make sure that everybody's
abundantly clear because we've had so much confusion

304
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:14,279
about this unfortunately, but um,
this is a rendition of a photo that

305
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:22,480
was included in an intelligence assessment provided
by the UAP Task Force UM in late

306
00:24:22,319 --> 00:24:26,799
twenty twenty, so a couple of
months ago. But this is not the

307
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,599
other photo that we release the day
later. UM, And indeed you're you're

308
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,480
accurate? There is that Uh you
know, I was told by multiple people

309
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:41,200
that uh, you know what there
was, ah, a triangular object with

310
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:48,200
rounded, blunted corners just like what's
shown there. Dave Batty of the NEMTS

311
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,039
encounters who did that film, has
done phenomenal work research and the event is

312
00:24:52,079 --> 00:24:56,200
who who did that recreation for me? Um? But exactly like what you

313
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,359
see there, so three bright white
lights in each corner, rounded blunted owners.

314
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:06,759
And indeed the objects supposedly emerged from
underneath the ocean. In fact that

315
00:25:06,759 --> 00:25:14,839
that recent intelligence assessment PORT was almost
exclusively pertaining to trans medium or underwater vehicles,

316
00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:18,599
you know, seeing that the UP
task Force was actually very much focused

317
00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:23,920
on this idea that potentially, you
know, UFOs or UAP may have not

318
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,519
just a water connection, but this
may be some sort of transient staging area.

319
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,839
You know that there's a lot more
going on in our ocean than we

320
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:38,759
realize and yeah, I mean everybody
who saw that assessment, everybody who saw

321
00:25:38,799 --> 00:25:47,400
that photo was extremely taken back,
and I thought it was just really really

322
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,920
compelling for me and my side,
because that's what I've always told people.

323
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,680
I've never actually written an article about
UFOs other than I did write one in

324
00:25:57,799 --> 00:26:02,240
Vice News about Standing Freeman's archives because
I thought Standing was a great guy.

325
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,039
I thought it was great that they
were going through the process of archiving all

326
00:26:06,079 --> 00:26:08,880
of his materials. But everything else
and my real interest has always been national

327
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,519
security in defense. Now I've written
plenty of stories that happen to be national

328
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:18,759
security and defense stories that happened to
involve your FOS, but that's kind of

329
00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:23,079
where my bread and buttery is in
where I'm most comfortable is in the kind

330
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:30,079
of military and intelligence community. And
so that article went viral, I mean,

331
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,160
excuse me, That photo and that
assessment went viral amongst the intel community,

332
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:41,039
which is really really incredible, and
that was everybody said that that it

333
00:26:41,079 --> 00:26:45,759
was incredible that it would have been
disseminated like that, and it were stunned

334
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,160
because you you know, when you
send something like that out as well,

335
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,720
this is going out to analysts across
all sorts of different agencies. It doesn't

336
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,200
mean that they're necessarily part of the
task force, so that they're even going

337
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,319
to do anything of the task force. You just put it out so that

338
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:06,960
analysts working in different intel areas,
UM, are aware of different issues that

339
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,400
are being looked at. So in
place, you come across something, you

340
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,640
know, maybe you're you're working counter
terrorism and you happen to pick up some

341
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,279
signals chatter about somebody talking about seeing
a UFO, you know in Afghanistan.

342
00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:22,519
You where you might just discount that. Now you flag it and pass it

343
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:26,279
along. UM. That's the whole
reason these assessments go out like this.

344
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,160
UM. But they were all I
mean, there was you know, there's

345
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:37,119
there's neighborhoods in especially around like Santelli, Virginia area, in Maryland area where

346
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,880
uh, you know, everybody in
the neighborhood, all your neighbors work somewhere,

347
00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:44,759
nobody really works where they say they
work, or nobody talks about what

348
00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:48,279
they really do. UM. But
they're all you know, somebody's either working

349
00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:52,480
for an intelligence or military contractors are
working directly for the government. And I

350
00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:57,000
mean I had friends saying that,
and all of my neighbors are talking about

351
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:00,880
it. So it's really funny because
it's one of those things you're talking about

352
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:06,799
a community, very internal community.
So this is not where normally the public

353
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,240
might hit Facebook or Twitter and start, hey, guess what I just saw

354
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,200
at work. They can't do that. But the same level of kind of

355
00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:19,519
viral um new sharing went out amongst
the intelligence community and still has. Frankly,

356
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,039
and so, how do you hear
about something like that? Well,

357
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:26,839
I mean it's not it's not top
is it top secret? I mean,

358
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:33,079
see is it supposed to not be
shared? It's classified. They're on classified

359
00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:37,559
classified and well they're on classified systems, and uh, everybody was pretty cautious.

360
00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:45,559
Nobody nobody shared anything with me that
was inherently classified. What happens is

361
00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:49,119
these systems themselves are classified, and
in fact intelligence reports if you ever see

362
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:55,799
them, they have a little marker
in each of them, each paragraph where

363
00:28:55,799 --> 00:28:59,079
it will say U S or TS, which lets you know, so you

364
00:28:59,079 --> 00:29:03,680
can have a you have a classified
memo that has unclassified paragraphs or top secret

365
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,440
paragraphs, that type of thing.
The wide distribution of this it was not,

366
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,720
it was not top secret. So
uh, you know, I found

367
00:29:14,759 --> 00:29:19,720
out about it ironically enough, because
some people called me and asked me,

368
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:26,640
I kind of grew up. You
know, my uncle worked for the Joint

369
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,920
Chiefs of Staff, and yeah,
I have a lot of family members who

370
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,039
are in kind of the intel or
military community, and so I kind of

371
00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:37,799
grew up in that world. To
be honest with you, and still had

372
00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:41,920
you know, through just law enforcement
and we're doing uh, we did a

373
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:42,720
lot. I did a lot with
the federal government and everything. So I

374
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,880
have a lot of friends out there, let me put it that way.

375
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:51,519
And um, when this stuff first
started coming out, people called me because

376
00:29:51,519 --> 00:29:55,519
they know they knew I had reported
in Popular Mechanics and Vice on this subject

377
00:29:55,559 --> 00:29:59,559
for the past year or so.
And it was very interesting because, especially

378
00:29:59,599 --> 00:30:03,759
with the first memo, it explicitly
said it gave the prosaic list of things

379
00:30:03,799 --> 00:30:10,519
that potentially UAP could examine or could
represent, you know, everything that you

380
00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:15,640
can think of that we all would
But it also explicitly said that the idea

381
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:21,599
that these are extraterrestrial or non human
is being explored. And that really freaked

382
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:26,599
some people out absolutely. Yea,
as I got calls from people's asking me,

383
00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:30,519
so pauls, from people I've known
for a long time that work in

384
00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:33,400
these communities where they're not supposed to
talk, asking me, hey, do

385
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:41,920
you know more about this? I
think it's and it was kind of yeah,

386
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,960
no, no, that's one hundred
percent truth too, and I said,

387
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,200
well, it's news to me.
And so there were definitely a lot

388
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:56,599
of people that talked outside of church. You might say, however, I

389
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:03,400
think everybody did so really responsibly.
But it was truly based on the same

390
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,720
kind of fascination that I think captivates
so many people to follow your foe subject

391
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,240
at all period. Is that you
have a lot of people. And that's

392
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:15,400
the thing is that there's some misnomers
about the intelligence community. You think it's

393
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,920
James Bond, or you think it's
Jason Bourne. Um, it's a lot

394
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:26,319
of nerds at computers, I mean
for the most part. And and so

395
00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:29,799
these were people that this is you
know, a lot of them maybe had

396
00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:33,240
never even considered the subject besides just
sci fi just interesting, you know,

397
00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:40,599
the movie. But when this stuff
comes across in their professional life, I

398
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,279
mean it's kind of like you as
a as an antiques appraiser, Martin,

399
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:48,279
if somebody handed you, you know, like, hey, I've got this

400
00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:49,960
piece of the rosweld wreckage. Can
you assess it? And you're like,

401
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,680
oh, this is real, Like
you know, like this realization is something

402
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,240
that you wouldn't have expected in that
facet of your life. And so a

403
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:07,160
lot of people were compelled by it. Um And and I just leaned a

404
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:14,559
lot on my career in law enforcement
investigations and just relationships that I've had through

405
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:20,799
both professional and personal connections over the
years, long before I started interviewing or

406
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,400
discussing anything with you atos to just
that's been my focus the last two years,

407
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,640
is digging in, like what is
the government no or what's going on

408
00:32:28,759 --> 00:32:31,599
right now? And so I've been
very fortunate to kind of gain some some

409
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:38,680
good relationships um inside those those areas
that are examining them right now. So

410
00:32:39,119 --> 00:32:44,240
that's really awesome. That's a that's
a great contact. By the way,

411
00:32:44,359 --> 00:32:49,119
I did get I wasn't a house
in Massachusetts that had a piece of the

412
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,400
plane that Orville and Wilbur Right flew
called the right Flyer, your first original

413
00:32:54,400 --> 00:33:00,200
plane that actually flew in case in
plastic in their living room and they can

414
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,039
you appraise that? Wow? So
I had to try to figure out what

415
00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:08,440
the heck that was worth, I
forget. Wow, that's a tough one.

416
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:14,319
So I told the people in chat
that they could post questions in caps,

417
00:33:14,519 --> 00:33:16,359
so please do, and we have
a number of them that came in.

418
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:21,039
So this one first up. Do
you think the real photo of this

419
00:33:21,119 --> 00:33:23,480
will get released? I think that's
the question I had too. Sure,

420
00:33:23,599 --> 00:33:27,079
Yeah, you know, I think
it's a question on everybody's mind and everybody

421
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,759
to ask me. And this's the
tough spot that I'm in, is that,

422
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,839
just like he said, everything I
reported on there, you know,

423
00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:37,400
I'm one hundred percent comfident everything we
did. I don't want to get into

424
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,400
the incredible amount of detail that we
did to validate sources and just make sure

425
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,519
that we were sharing accurate information.
However, none of it was official.

426
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:47,519
You know, this was not an
official release by the Department Offense. This

427
00:33:47,599 --> 00:33:52,559
is this is this is Watergate.
This was you know, us going out

428
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:59,440
like Woodward and Bernstein tracking people down. And so unfortunately, I don't,

429
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:02,240
you know, the only photo that
we had that we could have released,

430
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,839
we did so immediately as soon as
we can release it, and so there

431
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,119
isn't any photo that we have that
we could release. M I certainly hope

432
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,159
that it will get released. I
certainly hope that. You know, I'd

433
00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:17,559
be lying if I didn't say a
part of my goal and when I reported

434
00:34:17,559 --> 00:34:22,400
on it was to try to force
that issue a little bit. You know,

435
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,280
once it gets out there, more
people can put pressure on it.

436
00:34:27,519 --> 00:34:30,320
And yeah, and they may,
they may do that. And let me

437
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:38,079
ask you this, what if you
had to speculate why this would remain classified

438
00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:43,239
and not released if that's what it
is, If this photo is actually classified,

439
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,800
do you think that's for security purposes? Why that? I mean,

440
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:51,239
do you think that's why the case? But not yes, but not for

441
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,239
the reasons that I think a lot
of people realize. And it's simply because

442
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,079
if you're talking about and I think
there's a you know, just a wealth

443
00:34:58,119 --> 00:35:02,920
of literature that's already in existence or
eyewitness testimony, you name it, where

444
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:10,320
you have people that have seen these
objects UFOs that are able to enter different

445
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:16,000
airspaces, including some that are just
uber restricted, like our nuclear weapons facilities,

446
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:22,280
with impunity. I mean, nobody
can stop them, nobody can do

447
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,960
anything with it. We don't even
have op sex to respond to this type

448
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,719
of stuff. And so what you're
talking about there as you're talking about it

449
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:34,920
in unmitigated vulnerability to national defense,
and it's a it's a situation where in

450
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,960
the national defense world you have no
actionable intelligence, is what it means,

451
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,880
you don't know how to stop it. And therefore, anything that is an

452
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:50,360
unmitigated risk in national security you don't
talk about it, period because it not

453
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,960
just because you know not that that
means that UFOs could attack us, but

454
00:35:54,079 --> 00:36:00,800
rather you don't talk about your own
vulnerabilities because they could be exploited by terrestrial

455
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,840
adversaries. And so I think that
that's one of the reasons that you see

456
00:36:06,559 --> 00:36:08,679
a lot of the secrecy to some
degree, especially when you're talking about stuff

457
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,719
like this, because it was my
understanding, and that's the thing is that

458
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,960
no one shared any Everything that was
shared with me, whether it was by

459
00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:22,679
photo itself or in description, was
materials. And in fact that that photo

460
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:28,440
there is what's called you know,
for official use only, so it's not

461
00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:34,719
even classified. But you can't classify
something he wasn't taken with a government system,

462
00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:39,079
so you can't protect sourcers or methods. But I think right now,

463
00:36:39,519 --> 00:36:44,039
and I was able to find out
that the UAP Task Force has been given

464
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:50,360
what's called OCA original classic original classification
authority, which means now they can classify

465
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,880
anything they want to. Whether the
people who filmed it or took it classified,

466
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:59,760
its irrelevant. They have the authority
to classify themselves. And so I

467
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:05,119
think there's a lot of times that
they're kind of making, you know,

468
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,840
liberal use of some of the requirements
that are in that you have to have

469
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,679
to classify anything. You can't just
willy nilly classify whatever you want. But

470
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,239
there is a kind of a there
is a standard under the executive where our

471
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:25,519
thirteen two fifty six that says you
can classify intelligence activities or foreign hardware.

472
00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:34,400
And so even if it's when we're
going to define foreign as not ours to

473
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,079
be a broad defination, you could
classify. But I think I share the

474
00:37:38,159 --> 00:37:43,960
sentiment that probably the person who asked
that question has probably you have and a

475
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:49,480
lot of people, which is there
needs to be a middle ground here,

476
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,480
like where can we reach a middle
ground where I don't I respect the fact

477
00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:59,039
that you can't share certain things because
they pose national security risk, our enemies

478
00:37:59,159 --> 00:38:02,800
exploit them. You don't want to
give away different capabilities that you have,

479
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,119
that kind of thing. I get
that, but I think that the that's

480
00:38:07,159 --> 00:38:10,679
always been why I've kind of pushed
on this area is I think there has

481
00:38:10,679 --> 00:38:14,440
to be a middle ground for me. It's not always it's really not.

482
00:38:14,519 --> 00:38:17,800
It's been about UFOs as much as
I think that, I do believe the

483
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,679
American public has a right to be
informed about the activities of government. And

484
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,320
we know now because it's been announced
that there's a formal task force there,

485
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,480
and so, you know, and
in a democracy, government functions by the

486
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:37,119
informed consent of the public, and
the public can't make any kind of real

487
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,480
informed consent when they're unformed in this
issue, and so I think good or

488
00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:45,840
bad, you know, it requires
that. And so it's always been I

489
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:51,920
have joked with both Pentagon spokespersons,
both people who spoke to me on background,

490
00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:54,960
people that in this and saying,
you know, this is a it's

491
00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:00,840
a very weird system. That is
how kind of democracy he works. Where

492
00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:06,280
I'm operating under the First Amendment to
try to get info, you're trying to

493
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,360
keep info secret. But yet we're
both trying to uphold the Constitution, like

494
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:14,800
we're both part of what makes it
all work. Um, And so I

495
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,039
think, I mean, I definitely
hope that you know, I have expressed

496
00:39:19,079 --> 00:39:23,320
that to people, Uh, as
high as one could imagine. Well,

497
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,320
not as high as the president,
how about that? But but in below

498
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,400
that I've expressed that to people.
Yeah, I thought the presidents was as

499
00:39:31,519 --> 00:39:37,000
high too, right, something,
I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get

500
00:39:37,039 --> 00:39:40,159
email for that. Yeah, you're
gonna get me. Now. I'll stay

501
00:39:40,159 --> 00:39:44,559
away from politics. But I understand
exactly where you're going from there, sir.

502
00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:51,320
But I've told people that I think
that you you know, I think

503
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,519
that if you I've had great conversations
with tons of people who aren't in the

504
00:39:55,679 --> 00:40:01,360
quote UFO community, So professionals m
from all walks of life, some of

505
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:07,000
them Harvard John Hopkins professors. One
of them, who is a very distinguished

506
00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:10,800
individual who's an epidemiologist, has been
called on to quite frequently because of COVID.

507
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,199
That people wouldn't be surprised about about
this subject. And so I think

508
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,239
there's interest in it. It's not
sillier taboo that people want to hear.

509
00:40:20,039 --> 00:40:22,480
And I think that there's a good
middle ground there. I think that the

510
00:40:22,519 --> 00:40:29,639
idea of examining it at an official
level is significant, but you've got to

511
00:40:29,639 --> 00:40:34,039
get this middle ground where we know
what's going on. You know, best

512
00:40:34,079 --> 00:40:37,800
example I give is you, I
don't need to know how China tried to

513
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,239
hack into a computer. I don't
need to know how you caught them.

514
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,400
Okay, these may be all things
that you need to protect so you can

515
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,679
catch somebody again. But I do
know enough that that is a potential threat.

516
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,039
So when the government says, hey, we need to invest x amount

517
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:55,360
of money in cybersecurity, as an
informed citizen, I can go now,

518
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,199
that's a great idea, that's a
good plan, because I trust this and

519
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:05,119
this and this topic. I think
it's very unfortunate because I think that if

520
00:41:05,159 --> 00:41:09,280
there was a little more transparency and
kind of just openness there, I think

521
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:14,880
you would see more people say hey, okay, you know, I'm I

522
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,519
think we need to examine it,
you know, and there would be less

523
00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:22,320
ridicule. Yeah, yeah, all
great stuff. Really interesting. So here's

524
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:30,440
another question here, Um this Lee
thought that pilots cannot carry mutile phones on

525
00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:34,920
military maneuvers. Is this not the
case? And thanks to them, keep

526
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,920
up the good work, ultimatetioned.
Well, thank you, thank you.

527
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,880
Lee. Yes, no, I'll
be honest with you. I can't speak

528
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,960
with authority on that, and I
haven't really investigated what's the policy on that,

529
00:41:45,079 --> 00:41:49,679
other than I will say, you
know, I came from a very

530
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,119
a very a profession was very rigid, and there's policies for everything, and

531
00:41:53,199 --> 00:41:58,239
just like the DoD, so you
have policies for policies. Um. And

532
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,000
one of the things they teach you
in command college when you when because I

533
00:42:00,119 --> 00:42:02,960
was a lieutenant before I retired,
So you go to command college and it's

534
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,920
funny because there's all these there's all
these rules and policies, and the first

535
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:13,639
thing they teach you is that there's
always an informal policy that superstedes your policy,

536
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:19,679
which means how things really operate and
how they have to function correctly.

537
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,280
Because if you were so ridigated in
that and they teach you as a commander,

538
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,880
don't you know if there's a no
cell phone in the cockpit rule but

539
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:30,679
listen, guys to get in their
pocket or whatever, like, are you

540
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,000
going to pat down your pilots every
flight? Is that what's really important?

541
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,159
And so I don't have the actual
answer other than it doesn't shock me that

542
00:42:37,159 --> 00:42:40,920
you would have pilots that bring cell
phones or different things. Uh, there's

543
00:42:42,199 --> 00:42:45,840
plenty of instances where you can go
to Instagram or YouTube, or you see

544
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:52,440
pilots that bring um GoPro cameras,
and you know that I don't. To

545
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:57,679
me, there's what is the distinction
between a go pro and a cell phone?

546
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,639
Unless we're all thinking, wait a
minute. You know when I fly

547
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:02,920
commercially, they always tell me turn
off my phone or you know, I'm

548
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:07,440
going to crash this multimillion dollar commercial
jet if my phone's not on airplane mode.

549
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:15,039
Um. These are by the way, right, Yes, the pilots,

550
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:20,559
they just all had to do with
money and whatever making money on the

551
00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:24,280
cell phone services, right, Yes, And so I to answer that,

552
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,039
you know, it's a long way
of saying I don't know the ideal policy,

553
00:43:28,119 --> 00:43:30,760
but the idea that pilots bring their
cell phones or go pros or anything

554
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:36,239
of that light incock pits. Yeah, absolutely does happen. It doesn't surprise

555
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,519
me or shock me. And I
certainly could see that. Yeah, has

556
00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:45,320
Tim had Have you had an eye
on either of these two report memos floating

557
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:50,559
around? Do you know what this
particular question means? Yes? I mean,

558
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,079
so I guess you're asking me,
did I actually physically see any of

559
00:43:54,320 --> 00:44:02,760
the intelligence assessment reports? Um?
Thing, I'll say, is that everything

560
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:07,760
we reported on is is one hundred
percent accurate. I have no concerns qualms

561
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,280
about that. You know that eventually, whether it's through freedom of information request,

562
00:44:12,559 --> 00:44:15,880
you know, if even if it's
classified and it takes twenty five years

563
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:21,440
for classification review, no doubts that
that will come out beyond what we reported

564
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:22,679
on there. And in terms of
like, well, what did you see

565
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:28,119
or what do you have and all
of that, I can't really answer all

566
00:44:28,119 --> 00:44:30,960
of that because it's just like we
said that, we are talking about stuff

567
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,760
that could get people's careers in trouble, and it was frankly as a crime.

568
00:44:36,639 --> 00:44:40,280
You know, Reality Winner a couple
of years ago when she leaked the

569
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,679
actual memos and the intercept printed those
memos, you know, with an hour

570
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:49,840
of her then printing those memos,
Reality Winner was arrested. And I just

571
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,159
saw Friday. She lost her appeal
and she's got six years in prison,

572
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:58,840
five years in prison, and so
um, you know, I have to

573
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,679
also be very caut because whenever people
don't realize this, but but you know,

574
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:07,679
in a journalistic capacity, when you
agree to deal with sources under condition

575
00:45:07,679 --> 00:45:12,599
of anonymity, the first thing you
have to do is say, well,

576
00:45:12,599 --> 00:45:16,360
why they have to have a valid
reason. And although these instances we understood

577
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,679
the valid reason of why, but
then once we agree with that, we

578
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,079
are legally bound. You know,
there's Supreme Court case ruling that says we

579
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:28,480
can't. You know, we have
to protect the identity of those sources,

580
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,199
and if those identity those sources got
out, we would be held liable.

581
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:37,360
And so it's it's it's really tricky
issue there. And I just so everybody

582
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:43,440
knows, I absolutely detest being cagy
or evasive on anything. I try to

583
00:45:43,519 --> 00:45:50,440
be as open and forthright on anything
and everything as I possibly can. But

584
00:45:50,519 --> 00:45:53,079
with that one, I'll just say
that I'm confident in everything that we reported

585
00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:59,400
on. Um. You know,
it's funny you mentioned at the top of

586
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,599
the show that one of the things
that bothered you were the titles, that

587
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:07,239
the headlines, that you'd write a
great story in the headline would be bizarre,

588
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:14,679
Leslie Leslie Kane. I talked to
her right after the December sixteen,

589
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:19,159
twenty seventeen article came out in The
New York Times, and I said,

590
00:46:19,199 --> 00:46:22,199
what's up with the title, And
she says, oh my god, that's

591
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:23,760
the one thing they picked their own
titles. It didn't, you know,

592
00:46:24,079 --> 00:46:28,320
I think it was blessed something like
black Auroras or I can't remember exactly what

593
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,320
it was, but she said that, and she said also on another article

594
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:38,079
she said, a really frustrator.
So you're not alone in that. I

595
00:46:38,199 --> 00:46:43,440
know Leslie and Ralph. I've spoken
to them devi NS recently. The only

596
00:46:44,039 --> 00:46:46,639
actually interviewed Ralph. I'm trying to
get him back on again. He's a

597
00:46:46,639 --> 00:46:50,480
great guy. Yeah, no,
no, both of them are, and

598
00:46:50,679 --> 00:46:52,320
so they feel the pain. I
mean, that's just the nature of the

599
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,400
base when you work for an outlet
or another publication, as the editors choose

600
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,480
their heads I used to get that
all the time, you know. I

601
00:46:59,679 --> 00:47:01,760
remember we're actually going back to the
Stanton Friedman article that I did that in

602
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:06,719
the the the editor chose the headline. It was, you know, something

603
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:12,239
like, you know, they're in
the process of archiving that the largest UFO

604
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,519
archive ever. You know, that
was the thing, and so I got

605
00:47:15,559 --> 00:47:17,800
people like, who says it's the
largest? You know, people were mad

606
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,320
because they felt like they had a
larger one. And I'm like, I

607
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,559
should have had the words putting saucer
in it, because dam love to use

608
00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:27,280
that right, you know, I
was like, I didn't choose. You

609
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,639
don't choose the headlines. And and
unfortunately, and I've kind of had to

610
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:38,079
learn this now as we run a
media organization, is that it's regretful that

611
00:47:38,119 --> 00:47:43,239
at times that you do have to
try to get a headline that captures somebody's

612
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,400
attention, you know, But we
try to avoid clickbait by any means.

613
00:47:47,079 --> 00:47:52,119
So we try to take the topic
but make it interesting. Um, next

614
00:47:52,159 --> 00:47:58,320
question that comes up here, is
there anything else from Fraver's wing woman actually

615
00:47:58,639 --> 00:48:04,880
woman, Yes, anything else in
terms of that I've found interesting is that

616
00:48:06,599 --> 00:48:10,519
yeah? There, Like I mean, do we know everything that's out there

617
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,920
basically? Oh? Oh yeah,
yeah, I feel like the gist of

618
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,239
it is. And um, I
have actually I've you know, whether it's

619
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:24,360
in Popular Mechanics or other outlets that
I've reported. I think somewhere I've pieced

620
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:28,679
together different pieces of the interviews that
I've had, whether that I shared everything

621
00:48:28,679 --> 00:48:32,159
that was important that I think hadn't
been reported before, including that kind of

622
00:48:32,159 --> 00:48:38,239
bouncing around like a like a ping
pong ball. And in fact, for

623
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:43,119
me, you know, if you
don't mind me getting really nerdy for you,

624
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:51,320
Martin but in cognitive psychologist me,
that's something that's very fascinating because in

625
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:52,920
order to actually I mean, this
goes into like when people go, oh,

626
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:57,639
it's secret technology, and I'm going, yeah, but there's just list

627
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,360
I can give you down. I'm
not saying it's not, but we have

628
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:05,719
to overcome and one of those would
be the flash flicker rate. And people

629
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,840
don't never think about this, but
our brains, you know, we perceive

630
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:13,039
our environment by a flash flicker rate
of about sixty flashes per second. That's

631
00:49:13,079 --> 00:49:17,159
how we judge time, that's how
reality is for us. A housefly has

632
00:49:17,199 --> 00:49:22,039
a much much, much much higher
flash flicker rate, and so people the

633
00:49:22,039 --> 00:49:24,639
house five flies all around and darts
all around because it's nuts. Actually the

634
00:49:24,679 --> 00:49:31,440
housefly literally is working in a perennial
kind of matrix world where everything's going we

635
00:49:31,519 --> 00:49:36,199
move much slower to the house fly
because he has a higher flash flicker rate,

636
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:42,119
so or something. Yeah, yeah, and so these objects bouncing around.

637
00:49:42,159 --> 00:49:45,000
For me, I'm going, well, that means that's something that either

638
00:49:45,119 --> 00:49:52,519
artificially or biologically is able to process
visually processed information at a much much much

639
00:49:52,639 --> 00:49:57,599
exponentially higher rate than human beings.
And that's incredible and so that you know

640
00:49:57,679 --> 00:50:00,480
that key point there is something to
always point out, but you know,

641
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:04,679
in terms of her and other things
that you know. And I reported on

642
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,039
this in Popular Mechanics. I thought
it was fascinating because I hadn't heard it

643
00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:10,719
before I spoke with her. Is
that she, you know, was invited

644
00:50:12,639 --> 00:50:17,480
back up to the Pentagon at various
times to speak with different people and was

645
00:50:17,519 --> 00:50:20,840
shown stuff and said, is this
what you saw? Is this what you

646
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,159
saw? Is this what you saw? In effort to kind of go down

647
00:50:23,199 --> 00:50:30,320
the laundry list of different you know, classified systems that maybe they had that

648
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:35,079
aren't publicly known at least during those
times maybe, And she said every time

649
00:50:35,159 --> 00:50:38,039
it was like no. Um.
You know, she expressed to me kind

650
00:50:38,039 --> 00:50:44,760
of the frustration. She did testify
in front of Congress and and she she,

651
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,039
you know, I hope I'm not
getting her in trouble. I don't

652
00:50:47,079 --> 00:50:50,920
think so. She didn't say this
was off the record, but uh,

653
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,840
you know, she expressed frustration of
during some of those testimonies because congressional leadership

654
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:00,239
looked at her and was like,
well, what did you see? And

655
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,440
I thought she put it very poetically
true, and she said, that's not

656
00:51:04,519 --> 00:51:10,079
my job. You know, I
have reported on what occurred. It was

657
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:15,400
not in my wreckie or a recognition
book. So it is not an aircraft,

658
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,840
both foreign or domestic, that we
recognized. I have said everything I

659
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,599
had to say in terms of what
it was. I don't know, like

660
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:30,239
that's somebody else's job. And um, but I think that, yeah,

661
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:32,760
it is interesting to see at that
high of a level, the same thing

662
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:37,440
that I think a lot of UFO
and this is everywhere civilian wives go through

663
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:38,199
the same thing where people are like, yeah, yeah, but what was

664
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:43,239
it was probably a plane or maybe
it was a seagull or you know,

665
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,280
a dangling peanut. Um, always
trying to fit it in the box,

666
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:52,880
you know, and I think,
you know, I had my personal sighting.

667
00:51:52,559 --> 00:51:57,880
It was outside of my box,
and it's like really caught my attention,

668
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,159
Like what the heck is this?
You know that that that type of

669
00:52:00,199 --> 00:52:05,880
thing, and I think that's what
happened. And yeah, um, So

670
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,119
while we're at the slow he will
we'll get back to the questions. Um

671
00:52:08,199 --> 00:52:12,559
when we come back, we're gonna
just take a two minute break. Um.

672
00:52:12,599 --> 00:52:15,960
And by the way, talking about
getting nerdy, each house flies eyes

673
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:23,920
pair of eyes have three to six
thousand symbolize. They're called Yeah like what

674
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:30,280
they see, they see like a
million you know. Absolutely. I'm so

675
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,760
happy to hear you say that because
I was involved in some that research with

676
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:37,119
a flash flicker rate of flies where
you realize, holy cow, the fly,

677
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,079
you know, possess this thing.
So yeah, usually people like what

678
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:45,159
so now, kudos Martin. We
need to hang out more often. We

679
00:52:45,199 --> 00:52:49,880
need to get a beer and hang
out right, yeah, un zoom like

680
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,639
everyone's doing. So we're going to
run into to break out and what's it's

681
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:59,239
gonna be two minutes for everyone in
this This is music by he's written music

682
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:05,639
form for the show. It's Carrie
Lloyd White House in Ireland and he's written

683
00:53:05,639 --> 00:53:09,039
some nice music. This one in
particular is called black Eye Children. Black

684
00:53:09,039 --> 00:55:15,119
Eyed Children. Wow, that was
peppy, wasn't it. Yeah? I

685
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,000
woke me up over here. That
was good. Yeah, some really cool

686
00:55:19,079 --> 00:55:22,519
music for movies and things. He's
really great, guys. I've been in

687
00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:25,159
touch when I first started this,
uh this show, so welcome back everyone.

688
00:55:25,519 --> 00:55:30,960
We have Tim McMillan and all the
way from Germany and he's talking about

689
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,559
the debrief dot Org. Make sure
you do check that out. You're not

690
00:55:34,599 --> 00:55:38,559
going to crash it anymore. Now
we've got things worked out now, Yeah,

691
00:55:39,079 --> 00:55:44,760
I know. I moved to this
this show this My show website became

692
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,840
so I had so much traffic on
it that I ended up having to put

693
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:52,519
it on its own designated server.
And it took over a year for them

694
00:55:52,519 --> 00:55:58,920
to straighten things out. And then
my website website got hacked last February,

695
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,679
lost fifteen hundred page just and oh
wow, but I don't care. It's

696
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:08,920
it's simple now. Yeah. Yeah, Um, so I would like to

697
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:14,039
pop up another question because I saw
that we have a bunch of questions coming

698
00:56:14,079 --> 00:56:20,199
in and sure, let's see right
here, Um, unidentified wants to know

699
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:24,599
this is a Lewis and uh,
he wants to know this first photo that

700
00:56:24,679 --> 00:56:31,639
was leaked, Um was let's see
confirming, But I mean that was not

701
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:37,679
actually leaked, was it the photo? I mean, the rendition was something

702
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:43,400
Dave Baby made up correctly, I
think he's a photo. Actually no,

703
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:50,599
unless unless what's being discussed there is
the the photo we published the following day.

704
00:56:51,199 --> 00:56:54,280
Um, you know, for for
me, yes, I mean these

705
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,920
were you know, we were used, you know, in connection with other

706
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,880
things to verify the information related to
those intelligence assessment reports. However, I

707
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:09,039
understand that, YEA, other than
me telling you, here's what different sources

708
00:57:09,079 --> 00:57:15,519
said, who unfortunately I can't name
because it would cost them their jobs or

709
00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:17,440
say how those were connecting to the
reports. Um, I can understand how

710
00:57:17,519 --> 00:57:21,760
anybody would go, yeah, but
this doesn't prove anything, and I respect

711
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,920
that for me. You know,
we published that photo as soon as we

712
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:29,440
could, and this is I've stood
behind it. What is shown in that

713
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,239
photo, I don't know. I
truly don't know. I can, you

714
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:37,280
know, much like so much in
this topic, I can find pros and

715
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:42,480
cons or points and counterpoints to every
argument that's made about it. But I

716
00:57:42,519 --> 00:57:47,760
can say with one certainty that it
was a UAP task Force photo or a

717
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:52,239
photo that was given to them.
It was a UAP task Force photo that

718
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:57,840
was included in an intelligence assessment portfolio
that was provided to the different analysts.

719
00:57:58,519 --> 00:58:02,639
The background and information on that particular
event and when she was captured actually wasn't

720
00:58:02,679 --> 00:58:07,800
discussing in the assessments that I'm aware
of or that I was told about.

721
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:12,320
So the information behind that is unknown. You know, I don't even have

722
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:16,599
anybody you know, that had seen
those assessments that could give me more details

723
00:58:16,639 --> 00:58:22,000
on that event. And so for
me, yes, you know, that

724
00:58:22,119 --> 00:58:23,320
was the big thing, and that's
why we published. And a lot of

725
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,039
people were like, why would you
do this? You ruined my life.

726
00:58:27,079 --> 00:58:30,039
It looks like a balloon, And
I was like, I never intended to

727
00:58:30,199 --> 00:58:36,760
ruin anybody's life. My thing is
totally about being objective and as upfront as

728
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,920
possible. And I know that didn't
that sometimes it didn't make people happy because

729
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:43,440
they're like, yeah, but it
looks like a balloon. It's it's ruining

730
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:47,360
the UFO topic. And if I
can respond to that, Martin, I

731
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:51,199
want because this is I think this
is very important because I think people have

732
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:55,320
taken so much. They're putting so
much into that photo. And you know,

733
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:59,880
it's like I said, when I
was in policing, you and we

734
00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:04,440
joked about this before we got on
the air. I had people literally call

735
00:59:04,679 --> 00:59:09,599
our agency call nine one one to
report their cable being out or there somebody

736
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:15,480
their circuit breaker was blown. True
story. I also was. You know,

737
00:59:15,519 --> 00:59:17,320
the city that I worked in had
a violent crime rate three hundred points

738
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:21,920
higher than the city of Chicago.
It was very violent place. I worked

739
00:59:22,639 --> 00:59:25,199
a lot of shootings, a lot
of homicides, and so the spectrum of

740
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:30,719
crimes that we investigated, our calls
that we looked into range from my cables

741
00:59:30,719 --> 00:59:39,199
out to homicide murder. If you
were to grab any one report, it

742
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:43,280
could have been the cable out or
it could have been a homicide. But

743
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:45,880
either way, that one report is
not going to be reflective of the totality

744
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:50,000
of work that we did. You're
not going to get a good representation of

745
00:59:50,679 --> 00:59:52,320
what we did as an agency or
as in policing in general. And so

746
00:59:52,400 --> 01:00:00,480
unfortunately, what we have is this
one photo. It does not mean that

747
01:00:00,519 --> 01:00:05,599
it's representative of everything that the USP
Task Force has. And frankly I said

748
01:00:05,639 --> 01:00:09,400
in the Fast Movers article, there's
no doubt in my mind that because of

749
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:15,480
the wide distribution anything that was in
fact top secret or in a higher classification

750
01:00:15,559 --> 01:00:20,719
authority, because they were captured on
systems that may be compartmentalized that type of

751
01:00:20,719 --> 01:00:24,599
thing, that information would not have
been disseminated. But the US government has

752
01:00:24,639 --> 01:00:30,039
some really cool stuff and when it
comes to reconnaissance, surveillance and all sorts

753
01:00:30,079 --> 01:00:35,400
of stuff. So, uh,
you know, I feel I could say

754
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:39,880
with a degree of high confidence that
there's there's better data available to them.

755
01:00:40,159 --> 01:00:45,480
And I always point to if you
kind of just want to use Bayesi and

756
01:00:45,559 --> 01:00:52,320
logic here and just do abductive logic
of known information. The the email exchange

757
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:57,840
that we printed in that fast Mover
article between the Vice Joint Chiefs of Staff,

758
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:00,920
where you have the Vice Vice Chief
of the name V recommending to the

759
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:06,079
Vice Chief of the Air Force.
He's saying, I recommend you get this

760
01:01:06,159 --> 01:01:12,559
briefing I just received on unidentified aerial
phenomenon no ambiguity. He spells it out

761
01:01:13,199 --> 01:01:17,000
and acknowledges the Secretary of the Navy
received that. For anybody who's not been

762
01:01:17,039 --> 01:01:21,320
in the military or has never been
in the Pentagon world, I can tell

763
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:25,280
you these are the highest, like
these are the tip of the spear.

764
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:30,800
These are the highest individuals in the
United States military. You don't waste their

765
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:36,079
time with balloons. And you sure
don't have one of them who's only seen

766
01:01:36,119 --> 01:01:42,639
a balloon photo recommend that his counterpart
received the same briefing. And you know

767
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:45,760
I was only able to get those
because I was just trolling. I sent

768
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:52,360
out foyas phishing people's emails, saying
I want you emails from these people that

769
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,480
contain the word UAP, and that's
what I got back. So I think

770
01:01:55,519 --> 01:02:00,800
a lot more emphasis has been put
on the photo than maybe necessarily the emphasis

771
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:08,280
on that information or the emphasis that
the article could included with with General Bruce

772
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:14,199
McClintock. But in terms of what
we see in that photo right there,

773
01:02:14,239 --> 01:02:17,400
you know, I think that I
have seen some really good analysis done That

774
01:02:17,519 --> 01:02:22,280
doesn't surprise me in the least.
I have said. You know, I

775
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:28,400
spent years training investigators, both federal
and local investigators, and yet there's times

776
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,679
when I see people in the UFO
community who it doesn't matter what subject,

777
01:02:31,679 --> 01:02:36,840
it just happens to be UFOs.
They could be looking at homicide. There

778
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:42,800
is everybody as good of investigators is
anybody ever worked with or trained really incredible

779
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:46,480
open source investigation. And so there's
some great people out there that I think

780
01:02:46,519 --> 01:02:54,239
will examine it. It is interesting. I know that the Batman balloon has

781
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:59,679
been a leading theory. I will
be honest and just give my opinion.

782
01:02:59,719 --> 01:03:01,760
I do not believe that is the
leading theory. I do not believe that

783
01:03:02,679 --> 01:03:09,800
it is a Batman balloon because I
think what you see there when don't be

784
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:13,360
wrong when you're looking at what we're
looking at right now on the screen.

785
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,280
If you put a Batman balloon next
to it, it does look like it.

786
01:03:17,639 --> 01:03:21,840
It looks like it fits it to
a t. The shape. Yeah,

787
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:23,599
I was trying to I've just found
what I was looking for and I'll

788
01:03:23,639 --> 01:03:28,480
pull it up in just a second. Sure, but yeah, but it's

789
01:03:28,599 --> 01:03:32,159
clear, I mean, is this
thing is the Batman balloon on one side?

790
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:36,039
I mean you can see a little
bit of some type of design,

791
01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:42,280
but it doesn't look exactly like it. This is what, well, what

792
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,880
you're and what you're seeing there.
And actually I've seen people do analysis where

793
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,039
they put it on top of it
or right next to it, and you're

794
01:03:49,079 --> 01:03:52,880
like, say they people can suddenly
start to see Batman and what you're seeing

795
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:58,360
there, in my opinion, is
something called paradolia, which is a know

796
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:02,320
exactly what you mean? Yeah,
you make up what you It's actually goes

797
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:08,800
back to our survival instincts, yep, for for you know, well,

798
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:13,000
how we try to identify, you
know, someone that's going to you know

799
01:04:13,599 --> 01:04:16,159
eat us, you know predators,
Yeah, yes, yep, you know

800
01:04:16,239 --> 01:04:19,239
you you you and you can't help
it. That's what I think it's important

801
01:04:19,239 --> 01:04:21,039
when people are like, no,
no, no, it looks just like

802
01:04:21,079 --> 01:04:25,039
it. And I go, I
understand that that's the way your brain works,

803
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:28,239
um, when you put it next
to it. But but there are

804
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:32,239
mitigating factors um that that for me. And again, my thing is trying

805
01:04:32,239 --> 01:04:38,719
to be as objective about it as
humanly possible that I can say that's a

806
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:43,440
good theory. But and I'm perfectly
content if that's what it turns out being.

807
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,320
But I don't know that there's been
enough information. I don't know that

808
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:49,480
there's enough public information available to make
that conclusion as is. And I think

809
01:04:50,679 --> 01:04:55,440
we talked about this about the area. It is at an altitude that people

810
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,800
who saw the reports approximated at thirty
five thousand feet. I think it's much

811
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:02,079
higher because you can see the curvature
of the earth in that photograph right there.

812
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:06,079
Yeah, yeah, and you're you're
right, And you know, at

813
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:12,960
seven thousand feet, most my large
balloons will will blow up or they will

814
01:05:13,119 --> 01:05:17,320
drop an altitude because they'll loose pressure. I think it's because they are actually

815
01:05:17,639 --> 01:05:23,559
blowing up that they drop altitude.
But I mean, yeah, I couldn't

816
01:05:23,599 --> 01:05:27,679
find any records of anything going above
you know, twenty thousand feet or even

817
01:05:27,719 --> 01:05:30,440
ten thousand feet. I don't know. Have you looked into that part of

818
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:33,400
it? Yes? And not not
in the commercial like the party balloon,

819
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:38,360
the Batman balloon. No, because
I think as you're seeing the curvature of

820
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,440
the earth, and I encourage anybody
you can just just Google search, just

821
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:45,960
Google image search thirty thousand feet in
the air or forty thousand feet in the

822
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:49,719
air, and see what the view
you see from the earth. And I

823
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:54,000
think you'll see that what we're looking
at there is much more consistent with it

824
01:05:54,039 --> 01:05:57,920
being forty between forty to forty five
thousand feet in altitude above sea level.

825
01:05:58,519 --> 01:06:00,880
Uh that F eighteen. In fact, you can tell by the model there,

826
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:06,000
it's it's an F eighteen F model, a double seat is um.

827
01:06:06,039 --> 01:06:10,880
It has a maximum ceiling of fifty
five thousand feet and so it can climb

828
01:06:11,639 --> 01:06:16,199
um. And you know, I
if it is a balloon, and and

829
01:06:16,239 --> 01:06:20,559
don't get me wrong, just based
on the photos itself, I think that's

830
01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:25,400
saying it's a balloon. Is that's
a great analysis. I wouldn't say that

831
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:30,440
anybody's wrong. Here we are on
forty thousand feet in this field. Yeah,

832
01:06:30,519 --> 01:06:35,719
I mean that's you can see the
entire entire correct, correct, here's

833
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:41,039
forty thousand feet. You can't really
see the curvature. And yet when you're

834
01:06:41,119 --> 01:06:44,800
looking at this, you can see
the slight curvature. Yeah, I mean

835
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:48,039
they may be maxing close to which
in itself, you know it kind of

836
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:55,559
let's say it happens back to the
tragic Mantel incident where he went altitude with

837
01:06:55,599 --> 01:07:00,039
oxygen. Is that something caused these
pilots to pursue it at intually close to

838
01:07:00,079 --> 01:07:06,119
the maximum ceiling capacity of that F
eighteen. That's that's you know. So

839
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:11,440
that's what I mean. There's there's
mitigating factors, including the pilot testimony that

840
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:15,000
I think, no matter what it
shakes out to be, is fine for

841
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:17,920
me. Like if it's a balloon, it's fine. And if that's the

842
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:24,079
case, I think it's also very
important that people recognize that that doesn't dispel

843
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:29,960
any other information that the UAP tast
words may have or has investigated, because

844
01:07:30,119 --> 01:07:35,239
their mission has always been stated to
investigate unknown aerial objects that are in military

845
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:39,880
airspace that pose a threat. If
that is a balloon in those pilots couldn't

846
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:45,960
identify that is even a balloon is
a threat, is a potential safety hazard.

847
01:07:45,039 --> 01:07:50,039
And so it's interesting though, and
I mentioned this to you off camera,

848
01:07:50,079 --> 01:07:55,119
and I just haven't had a chance
to kind of lay it out.

849
01:07:55,159 --> 01:07:59,000
I mean, we haven't followed up
on this because I think, especially when

850
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:01,880
you're trying to run a media out, it's imperative that you responsibly report and

851
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,880
follow ups. So instead of like
coming out with every little thing that comes

852
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:08,760
up, we want to make sure
we make the most accurate of praise or

853
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:12,159
we can. But we're still looking
at it. And one of those involved

854
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:20,159
maybeing me getting copies of all nearly
eleven thousand hazard reports filed by the US

855
01:08:20,319 --> 01:08:27,680
Navy in the last sixteen years.
You know, people may remember these has

856
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:31,159
reports where they're called has reps.
The New York Times and The War Zone

857
01:08:31,199 --> 01:08:38,560
reported on these in the spring where
they had those who eight supposed up has

858
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,600
reps. Well, I got all
of them, I said, I want

859
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,920
all of them. I don't want
you to tell me what's up. I

860
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:48,239
want to look. And there were
some balloon reports, and I will tell

861
01:08:48,279 --> 01:08:56,359
you that there was significant investigation and
work done even in these instances where you

862
01:08:56,399 --> 01:08:59,920
had pilots who knew they saw a
balloon, like they said, this is

863
01:09:00,079 --> 01:09:03,199
a balloon. We encountered this balloon
inter restricted airspace. Uh. Still,

864
01:09:03,359 --> 01:09:10,399
a significant amount of investigation went into
it, and there are no hazard reports

865
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:15,680
that coincide. Not only did they
not coincide with the dates that this event

866
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:18,239
was a believed to have taken place, there are none that are filed over

867
01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:25,399
the ocean involving balloons. So you
know, at a minimum, that would

868
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:29,760
suggest to me that there it was
at least some factors that led these pilots

869
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,359
to not believe this was a balloon. What those are I don't know yet.

870
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:38,760
And um, you know, it
might sound strange to people because you're

871
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:41,760
like, dude, you just reported
on all this stuff that's out of classified

872
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:45,920
systems and everything, but I am
kind of I try to be very respectful

873
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:49,039
to people's professional careers and everything.
So I'll be the first admit thus far,

874
01:09:49,119 --> 01:09:53,600
I haven't started beating down doors at
air wings, you know, trying

875
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:56,640
to give me the pilot who did
this, give me the pilot who did

876
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:01,560
that, because I you know,
in my experience and you're not. Usually

877
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,319
I do better when I come along
way after the fact and say, hey,

878
01:10:05,359 --> 01:10:08,760
I hear you've been hounded by a
lot of people. I bet you

879
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:13,880
know, would you like to tell
your story now? You know? And

880
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:18,479
hopefully people trust that, you know, I always try to be as honest

881
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:24,000
and objective as humanly possible whenever I
tell somebody's story. But yeah, there

882
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,239
you go. That's a that's a
has rep you have on the screen right

883
01:10:26,239 --> 01:10:30,119
there. Yeah it's hard to read
though, but yeah, just to so

884
01:10:30,279 --> 01:10:33,279
someone can get an idea. There
was another one, and I pop in

885
01:10:33,359 --> 01:10:42,359
another question and just navigating through different
things here, let's see this question is

886
01:10:44,279 --> 01:10:47,960
this is going back to the Nellis
video that we showed earlier. Did anyone

887
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:53,920
ever come up with a size for
what they thought that might be? Yeah,

888
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,800
I don't know. You know,
I don't have an answer to that

889
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:01,640
question. And I'll be the first
to it. Um, I'm not a

890
01:11:02,039 --> 01:11:08,279
quote unquote you a foe investigator as
much as I'm an investigator. And I

891
01:11:08,399 --> 01:11:12,039
you'll hear me say this a lot
to people. Is I know my role.

892
01:11:12,079 --> 01:11:13,840
I know what I know and I
don't know what I don't know.

893
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:16,039
And I ask you to stand the
lane. And so like my lane is

894
01:11:17,319 --> 01:11:19,880
I have good you know, I've
been able to get some good connections and

895
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:24,680
relationships with people. It's like the
government who know a little about this or

896
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,520
a lot about this or something,
And so I try to work to get

897
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:30,159
information that I came out of the
public. But when it comes to those

898
01:11:30,199 --> 01:11:33,520
real great analysis that people do,
UM, I don know. I turned

899
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:36,520
to experts or either turned to the
people who are are doing it, to

900
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:43,279
the people like um oh gosh,
I knew, why is the name escaping

901
01:11:43,319 --> 01:11:46,960
me? But for Moufon that does
the video enoun Antonio Antonio, Yes,

902
01:11:47,239 --> 01:11:51,520
we spoke before my article. UM. I talked to him about his USO

903
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:58,640
encounter and UM so people like that
do a great job, and um,

904
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:01,079
I'll be looking for that from me
and people have probably seen it in my

905
01:12:01,199 --> 01:12:06,039
articles. I did it with the
an article the pres published in January and

906
01:12:06,239 --> 01:12:11,039
in Popular Mechanics about the Nimits event. I turned it over to experts.

907
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:14,960
I handed to somebody whose job it
is. I mean that it's the same

908
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:16,920
thing I would have did as a
police investigator. I'd hand it to the

909
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:20,880
forensics people. I'd hand it to
whoever. UM to really assess that.

910
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:25,399
But I think it's a great question. I would love to see more analysis

911
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:29,560
done in that video. Frankly,
yeah, yeah, yeah, And Mark

912
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:31,760
would be you know, it would
think that he would really attack that one.

913
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:36,439
You know, the the SCU did
a really good job on some on

914
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:42,359
some videos. It would be great
to see them tackle that. So someone

915
01:12:42,399 --> 01:12:45,479
from the UK has this question.
PJ Hughes, who has also been on

916
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:48,479
the show, stated that the E
TOO Hawkeye captured certain frequencies from the TIC

917
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:53,920
tac UM. Do you have any
more information on that? I don't.

918
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:59,279
I've spoken to PJ about that,
and um, you know, he's shared

919
01:12:59,319 --> 01:13:02,840
as much as he can because those
systems, you know, may carry you

920
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:06,159
know, that's that's the tough part
with all of this is that none of

921
01:13:06,199 --> 01:13:11,920
these systems were designed to hunt UFOs. They were designed for other military purposes,

922
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:15,800
and so there's stuff that they can't
share. Um And so I don't

923
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:21,640
know particularly what type of electronic or
signals data was recovered from that. I

924
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:29,079
did speak to an individual who I
have talked about trying to see if I've

925
01:13:29,119 --> 01:13:31,479
written in any articles, but but
his you know I've mentioned it before,

926
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:38,399
who was you know, their job
was the electronic warfare officer on the USS

927
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:42,399
Princeton during this event, and um
I did speak to them. They they're

928
01:13:42,399 --> 01:13:45,720
out of the military now, but
they worked for another aerospace company, so

929
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:49,199
they can't come forward by name.
But we did have a good chat,

930
01:13:49,239 --> 01:13:53,119
and you know, for him he
said it did not. In fact,

931
01:13:53,119 --> 01:13:56,319
it was a really interesting interview because
it added some other dynamics that I don't

932
01:13:56,359 --> 01:13:59,920
think have been out there because this
was his job. And you know,

933
01:14:00,079 --> 01:14:03,399
he pointed out to me that they
could only get returns on this object from

934
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:10,199
the Princeton based on surface returns,
so passive radar systems. And he explained

935
01:14:10,239 --> 01:14:14,880
that when the Spy one radar was
first getting them and they thought that in

936
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:18,039
Gary Voris has talked about this where
they took down the Spy one, which

937
01:14:18,039 --> 01:14:23,239
is a brand new radar system,
and you know, just because they thought

938
01:14:23,279 --> 01:14:27,119
it was malfunctioning. This gentleman told
me that they actually put up two other

939
01:14:27,239 --> 01:14:30,640
radar systems to double check this,
you know, two of the previous iterations,

940
01:14:31,119 --> 01:14:34,000
and they could only get surface returns. They could not get signals or

941
01:14:34,039 --> 01:14:39,880
electronic data. Now that's from the
Princeton. There's a reason that the E

942
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:43,760
two Hawkeye exists. There's a reason
we have earlier warning planes, and that's

943
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:47,520
because they have more sophisticated systems to
track data. So there's the potential exists

944
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:54,199
that the airborne system could have gotten
better data, but I haven't heard,

945
01:14:54,560 --> 01:15:01,000
and Pj's never told me anything or
hinted at saying that the signature data was

946
01:15:01,039 --> 01:15:06,880
consistent with it being some type of
known platform, both foreign otherwise. So

947
01:15:09,039 --> 01:15:14,199
I wish I had more for you. Yeah, have you even I'm going

948
01:15:14,239 --> 01:15:19,439
to bring this up? Neil asked
this question, can you expand on the

949
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:24,800
Israel X Security chief statements? Now, I someone said that, I mean,

950
01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:28,479
the first thing I read was into
galactic something, and I go,

951
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:30,560
oh my god, this this has
got to be a hoax. So I

952
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:34,439
didn't read into it. Have you
read more on that I did? And

953
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:36,439
here's why I was intoering. I
mean, don't get me wrong. When

954
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:39,520
I first thought it, I thought
probably the same thing you did. I

955
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:44,960
went, oh, dear Lord,
what is this silliness? But it's very

956
01:15:45,319 --> 01:15:49,000
very fortunate because when I wasn't policing
his date of Georgia, we had a

957
01:15:49,039 --> 01:15:54,439
program called GLEE, which is the
Georgia Israeli law Enforcement Exchange Program. So

958
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:59,119
every year you had a set of
law enforcement commanders of different agencies in Georgia

959
01:15:59,119 --> 01:16:01,039
would go to Israel for a week
and then on the other half the year,

960
01:16:01,199 --> 01:16:04,800
Israeli commanders would come here. Yeah
wow, yeah, yeah, really

961
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:12,319
cool program. And because I was
the only probably still am the only that

962
01:16:12,359 --> 01:16:15,520
ever, you know, was in
policing the state of Georgia, who spoke

963
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:18,159
Hebrew, who was fleeing in Hebrew, I got roped in. I was

964
01:16:18,159 --> 01:16:21,840
gonna said that would be a stumbling
block for the exchange, right well,

965
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:25,880
and most everybody speaks English, but
I spoke Hebrew, and so it was

966
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:28,920
nice. So I always got tasked
to these details. But it made great

967
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:32,039
contexts in Israel. And so after
this all came out, I kind of

968
01:16:32,119 --> 01:16:35,159
was like Jesse. But then and
I heard about it. I actually heard

969
01:16:35,199 --> 01:16:40,079
about it from Israeli friend very early
on, right after the interview, and

970
01:16:40,119 --> 01:16:44,359
I went, this is nuts and
dismissed it. And then it made blew

971
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:46,000
up in the English speaking media,
and I was like, oh god,

972
01:16:46,159 --> 01:16:50,079
yeah everywhere, yeah, right,
And so I asked some people, I'm

973
01:16:50,079 --> 01:16:53,760
like, what is the deal with
this? And it was interesting because they

974
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:58,199
said, you know, if English
speaking media people are surprised by what was

975
01:16:58,239 --> 01:17:05,119
said, imagine us in Israel are
like, I'm sorry what because this was

976
01:17:05,159 --> 01:17:09,239
a This is actually a very respected
gentleman. I mean my first thoughts were,

977
01:17:09,239 --> 01:17:12,880
he's nearly ninety years old, as
any of us could experience, you

978
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:15,960
know, potential decline and mental mental
faculties. My concern was a somebody taking

979
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:20,159
advantage of him. Yeah, but
I didn't get an indication. That was

980
01:17:20,199 --> 01:17:25,359
the sentence, and they said he
No, he's highly respected, he's the

981
01:17:25,399 --> 01:17:30,720
grandfather of israel space program. But
they said, in the general opinion is

982
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:38,199
a it's kind of been well known. He's actually a UFO buff or let's

983
01:17:38,199 --> 01:17:41,119
say, believer for a long time. He's been interested in this topic for

984
01:17:41,159 --> 01:17:45,960
a long time. And so their
kind of general assessment of this was is

985
01:17:45,039 --> 01:17:50,199
that they think he you know,
when he said that, he was saying

986
01:17:50,239 --> 01:17:56,079
things that he has read in other
places or been told by other people,

987
01:17:56,479 --> 01:18:02,119
not necessarily in positions of a power
or authority, and yet there may be

988
01:18:02,199 --> 01:18:06,640
a very good reason why he would
believe these things. In essence, they

989
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:13,159
believe that during his time as a
security chief for Israel in the space program,

990
01:18:13,239 --> 01:18:15,239
that he may have been made aware
of things that the US government or

991
01:18:15,279 --> 01:18:19,239
other governments haven't talked about or kind
of dismissed or this idea. I think

992
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:24,319
there's plenty of times we've heard that
people in the military say, yeah,

993
01:18:24,319 --> 01:18:28,199
we catch you know, fast movers
and fast walkers. You know, these

994
01:18:28,239 --> 01:18:32,840
weird stuff comes up all the time. And so I think that there's a

995
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:38,000
little bit of potential that is he
is taking. Maybe he does have some

996
01:18:38,039 --> 01:18:41,960
more tangible information that the US government
knows more about this stuff or has invested

997
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:45,600
more in it. And then also, I mean I was told he's always

998
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:48,359
had a big imagination, and you
know that's what's made him a great in

999
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:53,319
leading the Israel space program. You
know, people who believe we can get

1000
01:18:53,359 --> 01:18:59,640
off the ground are the ones who
do. And so I haven't found anyone

1001
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:04,319
who you know, and everyone I've
I've spoken with um in the US government.

1002
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:10,279
If such a thing as a galactic
federation exists, they've they've done a

1003
01:19:10,279 --> 01:19:15,880
great job keeping that secret. That
was Star Wars, wasn't It wasn't Star

1004
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:19,960
Wars? I think, Harry,
yeah, right, And it's one of

1005
01:19:20,039 --> 01:19:24,279
these things where you know, it
plays on our hopes and dreams and what

1006
01:19:24,399 --> 01:19:27,199
you know what that would be great. You know, I've told people,

1007
01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:30,039
and I have no problem saying is
that I'm very cautious as to say,

1008
01:19:30,039 --> 01:19:33,560
what are my feelings or opinions or
hopes and dreams as opposed to what I

1009
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:36,600
report on which I just try.
I try to present it just like it

1010
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:40,399
was a case I was going to
take the court in policing, and I'd

1011
01:19:40,399 --> 01:19:44,760
swear on stand is the truth.
But if you talk about hopes and dreams,

1012
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:49,800
um, I hope all this stuff
is a alien because human beings have

1013
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:55,479
this really distinct ability that when we
know something's possible, we end up doing

1014
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:58,760
it. And so I want to
travel the cosmos, I want to zip

1015
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:01,920
around the Solar system, you know, I want to do that, And

1016
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:08,039
so I hope it's alien. And
so I don't know how much if and

1017
01:20:08,159 --> 01:20:12,399
his name is Gaps right him,
I think it's a psalm, but he

1018
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:15,800
I don't know how much of that
is kind of his hopes and drains mixed

1019
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:19,760
in with maybe a little truth in
terms of the idea that indeed there's uh,

1020
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:27,239
there's definitely something more legit to the
idea of UFOs not representing being something

1021
01:20:27,319 --> 01:20:30,880
very complex that even some of the
most sophisticated militaries in the world don't have

1022
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:36,520
an answer for. Right right,
I was trying to ask a question that

1023
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:41,319
the chat's kind of messed up a
little bit. I have one after this,

1024
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:45,399
But all right, so this is
by Neil again, doesn't the highest

1025
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:49,600
chief of staff only now being briefed
to mean black budget programs and up data

1026
01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:57,159
has never been under their control,
which I believe that is so any of

1027
01:20:57,159 --> 01:21:02,119
the you know, any anything that
goes private is not congressional oversight basically,

1028
01:21:02,199 --> 01:21:06,520
right, sure, I mean,
and that has always been the most intriguing

1029
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:12,600
aspect of all of this. And
this is where I'm willing to, let's

1030
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:15,640
say, jump into the rabbit hole
of conspiracy to an extent of some people.

1031
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:23,479
Is that, I mean twofold here
is I do and it's it's when

1032
01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:27,720
he taught to some of the people
working in government and everything who have been

1033
01:21:28,039 --> 01:21:30,520
privy to this type of stuff.
Or there's there's one individual I really really

1034
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:33,319
pray I try to get him before
this article to come out on the record.

1035
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:39,039
Um, he won't understand why at
this point in time, but he

1036
01:21:39,159 --> 01:21:44,600
is a he's a former senior advisor
to the White House for general Madism.

1037
01:21:45,319 --> 01:21:48,119
He was brief by Luelllesando on multiple
occasions, and so he was like the

1038
01:21:48,159 --> 01:21:54,439
first one who's like, uh,
and he point blank told me after the

1039
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:59,359
Intercept article last year, the Pentagon
denied it. He um, he called

1040
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:01,720
public and was like, what the
hell are you people talking about? I

1041
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:04,920
was briefed by this, I was
read into this. Why are you saying

1042
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:13,359
this? Like I was there,
and so you know, I hear this

1043
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:15,239
side of it, and you learned
the bureaucratic side of it. And one

1044
01:22:15,279 --> 01:22:19,039
of the things that was really compelling
and interesting for me and him was because

1045
01:22:19,079 --> 01:22:24,720
he was the man there for Maddess. So you've heard lue Lozando say he

1046
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:28,239
quit out of frustration because he couldn't
get to Maddest. Well here, you

1047
01:22:28,279 --> 01:22:30,119
know, here's the inner circle,
him and two other advisors who were the

1048
01:22:30,159 --> 01:22:34,399
people being briefed who weren't going to
Maddest. And when I found out the

1049
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:40,399
reasons, why, you go,
oh god, that makes perfect sense,

1050
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:44,680
Like there's not a conspiracy or cover
up. You realized that human beings are

1051
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:47,560
human beings. As in in twenty
seventeen when this was going on, you

1052
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:53,640
just faced an entire presidential administration change, an administration change there was chaotic and

1053
01:22:53,960 --> 01:23:01,720
frankly, never resumed anything that's resembled
an effective government for the preceding four years

1054
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:04,199
in my opinion, you had a
lot. I mean that was lamented in

1055
01:23:04,279 --> 01:23:09,840
my report, where you somebody running
the task for us saying, you know,

1056
01:23:10,319 --> 01:23:14,399
there's been you know, four different
secretaries of the Navy and three different

1057
01:23:14,439 --> 01:23:16,399
secretaries of Defense in this time,
and we can't get on the same page

1058
01:23:16,399 --> 01:23:19,840
on anything because you're constantly just briefing
people, and so you realize, oh

1059
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:24,279
wow, these things are mundane.
And I've always said, in terms of

1060
01:23:24,319 --> 01:23:30,600
the UFO quote cover up, maybe
willful apathy would be a good term,

1061
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:34,600
because if you want to tell if
you want me to believe that the idea

1062
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:40,119
that somebody who's got four stars on
their shoulder, they have reached the pinnacle

1063
01:23:40,239 --> 01:23:43,520
of their career. They're like three
or four years from retirement and they have

1064
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:46,359
arrived, you know, something that
started when they were in RTC at high

1065
01:23:46,359 --> 01:23:49,680
school and when they went to West
Point, like this is it and you

1066
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:53,840
come to them and say, you
know, sir and ma'am, here goes

1067
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:57,159
all this information we got. This
is nuts. We don't know how to

1068
01:23:57,199 --> 01:24:02,720
defend it. It's not attacking us, but it is I can absolutely see

1069
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:08,880
somebody in that position going, I
believe you, that sounds crazy and incredible

1070
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:12,640
and I'm going to leave that for
the next guy or girl. And I

1071
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:15,560
think that's been going on since nineteen
forty seven, yes, because it's just

1072
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:20,000
like I don't know how, like
this is not what my career was built

1073
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:24,920
on and learning how to attack or
how to deal with and so I'm gonna

1074
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:28,880
leave it for somebody else. But
at the same time, I think there's

1075
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:31,439
potential, and we saw that when
I did the report in Popular Mechanics on

1076
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:38,199
how ass out was ran with BASS. I was fascinating that they ran it

1077
01:24:38,319 --> 01:24:42,720
like what I'm typically I'm familiar with, or what's called carve outs. They're

1078
01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:47,760
usually used in covert intelligence programs where
you form an entire shell company and you

1079
01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:53,880
hide the true purpose of the company
and what's actually going on, and so

1080
01:24:53,920 --> 01:25:00,560
the actual product and work that you're
really interested in is considered proprietary because prietary

1081
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:03,600
is exempt from FOIL, it's exempt
from the Actually, the federal government is

1082
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:12,880
legally prevented from releasing proprietary information,
so they can it belongs to those companies,

1083
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:15,960
but yet the information that they want
is housing those companies. So there

1084
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:20,560
has been times in talking to people
and dealing with this that I wonder if

1085
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:27,920
at one point in time that considerable
more information or you hear people talk about

1086
01:25:28,039 --> 01:25:32,479
crash wreckage, that type of stuff, if indeed that exists. I truly

1087
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:36,439
believe that that was something that,
for reasons I don't know, or reasons

1088
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:44,960
for extreme security, was transferred into
private industry personnel. And you know,

1089
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:49,560
it's no secret I've mentioned this on
numerous occasions that probably the prime suspect for

1090
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:53,600
me would have been the Atomic Energy
Commission, which later became the Department of

1091
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:59,279
Energy, because a totally civilian organization, and so when it was adopted as

1092
01:25:59,279 --> 01:26:04,439
a federal orzation, be very easy
to just transfer that stuff into a civilian

1093
01:26:04,479 --> 01:26:09,600
component. And so I wonder,
even with the modern news when when we

1094
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:13,359
see this, we're like, how
can the government not know more? Or

1095
01:26:13,359 --> 01:26:16,159
how can they not seem like they
know more. They've been involved with this

1096
01:26:16,279 --> 01:26:19,880
for so many years, and I
mean, they've got all these classified its

1097
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:27,079
fiscated systems. I wonder how much
the government itself is a bit hapless to

1098
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:33,279
what potentially is being housed in private
industry. Yeah, they don't have access,

1099
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:39,079
and that's a you know, if
indeed that's the case, it opens

1100
01:26:39,159 --> 01:26:42,239
up a whole It's kind of like
when they talk about the USOS. There's

1101
01:26:42,239 --> 01:26:47,840
a whole new dynamic and component to
this because there is not the same oversight.

1102
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:50,680
There is not the same if you
want to talk about the men in

1103
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:56,520
black or all of these different things
that people talk about, harassment, counterintelligence,

1104
01:26:56,560 --> 01:27:00,239
disinfo. There's just tons and tons
and tons of regulation at the US

1105
01:27:00,319 --> 01:27:06,239
government level to make red tape and
difficult. Private industry no problems. They

1106
01:27:06,239 --> 01:27:12,920
can do whatever they want. And
so do you think do you think do

1107
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:15,680
you think the government knows a lot
more than the rest of us or do

1108
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:20,239
you think they know a little more
or not anything more than the rest of

1109
01:27:20,319 --> 01:27:26,600
us about what I think what is
going on. I think they know a

1110
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:31,199
lot more I do. That doesn't
mean that, but I say that in

1111
01:27:31,319 --> 01:27:38,359
saying I don't know that they know
what I think, that they know a

1112
01:27:38,359 --> 01:27:45,560
lot more in the sense that where
the average person maybe easily dismisses this as

1113
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:50,159
just a fringe topic and just kind
of yeah whatever, I mean that that's

1114
01:27:50,159 --> 01:27:56,680
actually the social sentiment that the topic
adopted when blue Book was closed, is

1115
01:27:56,680 --> 01:27:59,359
that oh, yeah, this is
just fooy, you know, um,

1116
01:28:00,279 --> 01:28:02,039
you know, there's nothing to this, and anybody believes in that it's just

1117
01:28:02,359 --> 01:28:06,760
you know, on the fringe,
you know, the criticize and stigmatized.

1118
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:15,399
However, nobody actually liked happen to
mention that to whatever these objects are,

1119
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:18,000
because it's it's very, very fascinating
to look at kind of the data for

1120
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:24,399
the civilian agencies who continued examining this
post nineteen sixty nine, because their data

1121
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:30,079
is totally consistent with what Bluebook was
seeing in terms of unknown or myth of

1122
01:28:30,199 --> 01:28:35,239
identifications of the number of sightings.
So that's been consistent. And so I

1123
01:28:35,279 --> 01:28:42,000
think that they know more and I
think that possibly, I mean, I

1124
01:28:42,479 --> 01:28:47,079
would gather they probably know a lot
more in terms of being able to really

1125
01:28:47,159 --> 01:28:51,359
validate that, like this is really
something going on because of the some of

1126
01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:56,479
the systems and things that they have
in place that that just the public doesn't

1127
01:28:56,520 --> 01:29:01,880
have access to. Yeah, and
then comm the strange thing about that,

1128
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:09,680
you know, when when you talk
about that is how does it move then

1129
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:15,800
from one Let's say I don't want
to say generation, but let's just say

1130
01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:19,159
I'm not gonna I'm not saying this
is what happened, but let's just say

1131
01:29:19,199 --> 01:29:25,439
they did have crash retrieval from Roswell
back in nineteen forty seven. How does

1132
01:29:26,399 --> 01:29:29,800
the what do you want to call
it, the chain of custody or how

1133
01:29:29,840 --> 01:29:33,640
does it of the documents or whatever. I mean, it's just such a

1134
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:40,680
puzzle. I never had any inside
thoughts of that. Well. And this

1135
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:44,399
is what's interesting when you look at
extreme secrecy in anything, and so we're

1136
01:29:44,399 --> 01:29:47,840
not talking about UFOs, but in
an extreme secrecy where in terms of compartmentalization.

1137
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:50,800
A good example that I often tell
people to look at and you can

1138
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:55,760
Google search it you'll get some little
limited information is look up something called fog

1139
01:29:55,840 --> 01:30:01,720
bank. Like fog bank. Fog
bank is a steel classified, very top

1140
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:08,600
secret substance used in all of the
United States' nuclear weapons. Whatever this component

1141
01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:15,680
is is evidently a necessity in US
nuclear weapons. A couple of years ago,

1142
01:30:15,159 --> 01:30:17,479
you know, somebody was like,
Hey, I think we probably need

1143
01:30:17,479 --> 01:30:23,279
to replace our fog bank and our
weapons aging we've had it for a while,

1144
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:30,119
and the Department of Energy realized,
holy crap, none of us know

1145
01:30:30,279 --> 01:30:33,520
how to make fog bank. None
of us know exactly what it is.

1146
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:38,039
Because it was so uber classified,
you had such a small group of people

1147
01:30:38,079 --> 01:30:42,000
that were working on it developed in
the first place. The laboratories in which

1148
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:45,399
they were developed were now closed.
Those individuals who originally worked on it were

1149
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:47,840
either now had had passed away,
or were no longer in government. So

1150
01:30:47,880 --> 01:30:54,600
you had this weird instance where you
know, people are trying to figure out

1151
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:59,840
what do we do for fog Bank, how do we make it? And

1152
01:31:01,279 --> 01:31:10,039
that's a good example of how extreme
compartmentalized secrecy, frankly um can get lost

1153
01:31:10,119 --> 01:31:15,279
in the system. For lack of
a better term, I think, Frank,

1154
01:31:15,399 --> 01:31:17,640
you know, I'll be honest with
you, probably one of the most

1155
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:23,439
compelling things that I heard, and
I've mentioned this on another program. I

1156
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:26,920
never intended to put it out publicly
because I always tell you it's just a

1157
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:30,560
good story. I don't have any
proof behind it. And now I'm very

1158
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:34,399
cautious to share stories because they can
take a life of their own and kind

1159
01:31:34,399 --> 01:31:41,359
of the stitch mutant narrative begins to
build, and so I continuously caveat this.

1160
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:45,199
It's just a story, but it's
an interesting story, and it was

1161
01:31:45,199 --> 01:31:48,319
a story that I was told while
going through all of the interviews and talking

1162
01:31:48,359 --> 01:31:54,039
to a lot of people during the
Popular Mechanics article I released in February was

1163
01:31:54,439 --> 01:32:00,199
I was told that yeah, yeah, the the there was materials covered from

1164
01:32:00,319 --> 01:32:06,720
something, you know, in nineteen
forty seven. There were occupants, And

1165
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:11,199
I'm giving exactly what was said to
me, So I'm not paraphrasing or kind

1166
01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:14,560
of take I'm not trying to take
anything away here. They said there were

1167
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:18,720
occupants, that these occupants, um
it was there was a quote zero percent

1168
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:26,760
chance that these occupants were anthropomorphic,
meaning like us too. That it was

1169
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:32,279
a highly advanced, highly highly advanced
whatever. It did not look like a

1170
01:32:32,399 --> 01:32:42,159
flying saucer um. And that the
just material science and just every single facet

1171
01:32:42,159 --> 01:32:46,680
and component of this was so beyond
our own paradigm of scientific understanding and knowledge

1172
01:32:47,079 --> 01:32:50,600
that the decision was made, just
like the Raiders of the Lost Art,

1173
01:32:51,279 --> 01:32:58,159
to put it up and just file
it away somewhere until until we reached the

1174
01:32:58,199 --> 01:33:01,520
point that we possessed the the scientific
understanding and knowledge to do something with it.

1175
01:33:02,399 --> 01:33:05,880
That sounds crazy. So we think
it's just like in Raiders of the

1176
01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:12,560
Lost are and crates in some big
warehouse. It sounds nuts. But if

1177
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:15,920
you but but you have to look
at it in context and realize that if

1178
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:19,520
indeed that's true, you're looking at
the United States we're in the middle of

1179
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:25,600
a cold war with Russia. Not
sound like time DeLong here. And I'm

1180
01:33:25,640 --> 01:33:28,720
not saying we found a life form, but where you know, a cold

1181
01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:32,960
war where you have to mitigate the
money that you want to spend on research

1182
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:38,079
and develop on something if if you
genuinely believe that you do not possess the

1183
01:33:38,159 --> 01:33:42,880
scientific ability to really make a breakthrough, saying we could spend our entire defense

1184
01:33:42,920 --> 01:33:45,000
budget on this, but we wouldn't
understand it. And while we're doing that,

1185
01:33:45,159 --> 01:33:50,279
Russia is building bombers, Russia's building
subs, and so the decision is

1186
01:33:50,279 --> 01:33:56,560
just kind of made, let's shelve
it. That's not crazy, And in

1187
01:33:56,560 --> 01:34:00,079
fact, that happened when when ben
Rich when they developed stealth technology in the

1188
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:06,319
late nineteen seventies, they you know, they looked at it and said,

1189
01:34:06,359 --> 01:34:11,000
we know it works, but we
don't understand why yet. And so they

1190
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:15,720
had to make the decision do we
develop it and not understanding how it works,

1191
01:34:15,359 --> 01:34:19,560
or do we just shelve it until
we know more and then run into

1192
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:25,840
the risk of an adversary developing stealth
technology first. So I mean, these

1193
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:30,800
decisions of when you make a breakthrough, but maybe you don't understand enough of

1194
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:36,119
it that goes on and all this
stuff. I mean, there's assuredly an

1195
01:34:36,119 --> 01:34:43,159
innumerable number of different types of military
platforms who have made it to the proof

1196
01:34:43,159 --> 01:34:45,920
of concept stage. One of them
has been made, they fly it out

1197
01:34:46,039 --> 01:34:50,039
to Area fifty one or San Clemente
or somewhere, show it off, and

1198
01:34:50,039 --> 01:34:54,199
the military goes, yeah, that's
pretty cool. But the cost risk you

1199
01:34:54,239 --> 01:34:57,600
know, what we need in terms
of the global scale, it's just not

1200
01:34:57,680 --> 01:35:01,239
beneficial to us, and it gets
tabled, shell put away, um,

1201
01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:06,720
you know, to bring out another
day. And so this actually happens a

1202
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:12,840
lot in the in the government research
and acquisitions. UM, not saying that

1203
01:35:12,840 --> 01:35:15,159
that's what's happened here, but it'd
be. When I heard that, it

1204
01:35:15,199 --> 01:35:19,199
was interesting because I thought it was
one of the first times that maybe i'd

1205
01:35:19,199 --> 01:35:25,680
heard something that was the most logical
that possibly you could recover something, and

1206
01:35:25,720 --> 01:35:29,319
that would explain kind of all the
cover up all those different you know,

1207
01:35:29,800 --> 01:35:34,079
lack of discussion and just weirdness because
um, you know, I've been willing

1208
01:35:34,079 --> 01:35:38,720
to sound record you look at something
that we're like roswell, I don't know,

1209
01:35:39,720 --> 01:35:43,520
Uh, it's still interesting. I
don't think I've found a good answer.

1210
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:47,319
I don't think that the the mobile
balloon answer, I think doesn't satis.

1211
01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:53,640
Yeah, factory answer. Yeah,
there's there's a lot on that.

1212
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:59,199
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know
exactly what to think of all that,

1213
01:35:59,399 --> 01:36:02,439
you know, I mean I've always
wondered, as time, you know,

1214
01:36:03,239 --> 01:36:08,960
has gone on, how much do
they know? Where? Do they know

1215
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:11,439
where they're coming from? You know
that type of thing? Do you know

1216
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:15,600
what they want? The number one
question everyone wants to know why? Why

1217
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:17,119
are they here? And what do
they want? Those are the those are

1218
01:36:17,119 --> 01:36:24,039
the big questions. And are they
right? I mean we may up be

1219
01:36:24,039 --> 01:36:29,479
asking the wrong questions? Yeah,
no, I mean yes, that touches

1220
01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:31,359
on two points that I try to
bring up every time I get a chance,

1221
01:36:31,399 --> 01:36:35,920
which is one in my opinion,
and I've said this, is that

1222
01:36:36,119 --> 01:36:41,960
the term UFO unidentified flying saucer or
object excuse me, has always been a

1223
01:36:42,039 --> 01:36:47,159
hindrance to it because, you know, it is symbolic of the UFO topic

1224
01:36:47,199 --> 01:36:51,560
in general. If I were to
ask you, Martin, do UFOs fly?

1225
01:36:53,279 --> 01:36:55,199
You go, yeah, they're in
the sky, they're flying around.

1226
01:36:55,359 --> 01:36:58,800
By a colloquial definition, you are
right. But in terms of the principles

1227
01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:00,479
of how we understand flight. And
you talk about the right the piece of

1228
01:37:00,479 --> 01:37:04,960
the Right Brothers playing the B twenty
one raider that's under development right now,

1229
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:09,239
or the B two self bomber.
They're really cool. They wouldn't fly without

1230
01:37:09,239 --> 01:37:13,000
these sophisticated computer systems. But the
principles of lift, angle, attack,

1231
01:37:13,159 --> 01:37:16,439
drag propulsion that is the exact same
is what you're looking at the Right Brothers,

1232
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:20,359
they're not. We haven't changed the
wheel and how we achieve flight here,

1233
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:27,319
so you haven't. It's still the
same exact principle. But but some

1234
01:37:27,359 --> 01:37:30,800
of these that are talking about it, we're talking about something totally different in

1235
01:37:30,880 --> 01:37:36,159
terms of how they're achieving flight here. And therefore these objects are not flying

1236
01:37:36,239 --> 01:37:41,960
by how we define flight. So
especially when there's never a sound barrier broken

1237
01:37:42,079 --> 01:37:46,359
or you know, all kinds of
all kinds of yeah, and so that

1238
01:37:46,800 --> 01:37:50,840
to your point, you just made
a mention in research, when you arrive

1239
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:55,359
at a conclusion that is both yes
and no. Yes, it is flying

1240
01:37:55,399 --> 01:37:58,600
because they're in the sky. No
it is not flying because it does not

1241
01:38:00,079 --> 01:38:04,279
comport with how we define flight.
That means that the answer lies beyond the

1242
01:38:04,399 --> 01:38:09,359
hypothesis, and so you haven't asked
the right question, and I think that's

1243
01:38:09,399 --> 01:38:13,960
still going on. It's seventy years
going and so um, I don't know.

1244
01:38:14,039 --> 01:38:17,039
I mean it's and understand, people
in government are just human beings.

1245
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:25,399
You know. They may think they
know, they may you know, you

1246
01:38:25,479 --> 01:38:30,279
think that and the unknown is a
scary thing. Imagine not knowing, but

1247
01:38:30,399 --> 01:38:33,680
yet having at your fingertips the most
like I can zoom, you know.

1248
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:36,800
They wanted to think at zoom in
my window right now and be listening to

1249
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:42,199
our conversation. But you have that
tele analogy and then go just like the

1250
01:38:42,199 --> 01:38:44,920
rest of us, I know it's
real, but I don't know what the

1251
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:47,600
heck it is like. That's more
scary to me. So there's a lot

1252
01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:51,159
of it. I don't know,
But I think if it from that perspective,

1253
01:38:51,199 --> 01:38:56,920
and think that's kind of a chaotic
position. We want them to know

1254
01:38:57,000 --> 01:39:01,159
though, really yea to feel a
little bit of some type of safety in

1255
01:39:01,199 --> 01:39:06,720
a way. What about People always
bring up this when they're talking about military.

1256
01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:12,279
They think the black the big black
triangles, not in particular like the

1257
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:14,920
will. It's hard to tell the
size of the one that was in that

1258
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:19,880
rendition, but the black triangles.
People a lot of people are saying,

1259
01:39:20,199 --> 01:39:24,439
you know, we must have figured
out how to do anti gravity and blah

1260
01:39:24,439 --> 01:39:30,720
blah blah, it's military. And
even there was one particular guess I had

1261
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:32,760
that I said to them, well, you know, some of them have

1262
01:39:32,880 --> 01:39:38,359
been reported to be up to a
mile wide even larger possibly, and where

1263
01:39:38,359 --> 01:39:40,640
would they house something like that?
And they had a quite you know,

1264
01:39:40,640 --> 01:39:44,279
they had an answer for everything.
Do you think that's possible that we have

1265
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:48,680
these black triangles have anything to do
with military? I'm sure that some of

1266
01:39:48,680 --> 01:39:55,279
the sightings that people report have to
do with military platforms. How much I

1267
01:39:55,439 --> 01:40:00,119
don't know. And the reason there
begins to also you got to examine the

1268
01:40:00,199 --> 01:40:04,800
kind of aerospace science behind it.
And so if we had an anti gravity

1269
01:40:04,920 --> 01:40:09,760
technology, let's say, which is
a buzzword that, by the way,

1270
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:15,399
just turns off all aerospace engineers and
sciences, I atty poppycock, but it's

1271
01:40:15,399 --> 01:40:19,600
the best term that we have for
how to achieve propulsion like that. You

1272
01:40:19,640 --> 01:40:21,760
know, the first question I would
have is why put that in a delta

1273
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:26,720
shaped wing or a flying wing formation. The reason that the stealth bomber is

1274
01:40:26,760 --> 01:40:30,439
a flying wing and these types of
things is they hide the engines to it

1275
01:40:30,479 --> 01:40:32,600
inside the wings to cool the exhaust. It's part of the stealth component to

1276
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:38,479
it. But if you have a
means of achieving lift and propulsion, you

1277
01:40:38,479 --> 01:40:45,039
don't necessarily need any kind of aerodynamic
shape in a flying wing pattern. And

1278
01:40:45,079 --> 01:40:48,520
so you know, you could kind
of again, you can always play the

1279
01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:50,479
well, what if, what if? What if? You know, if

1280
01:40:50,520 --> 01:40:56,199
you had a system that sure is
more advanced and maybe it's not necessarily anti

1281
01:40:56,279 --> 01:41:00,199
gravitic, but it's got a better
means, and then it uses this flying

1282
01:41:00,279 --> 01:41:05,479
shape to almost act as a glider
in high altitude situations, much like the

1283
01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:10,000
U two. The Youtwo spy plane
is just a big glider um. And

1284
01:41:11,079 --> 01:41:15,600
that would make sense, um.
But but in truth, the the you

1285
01:41:15,640 --> 01:41:21,000
know and how I'm familiar with,
and all the known methods of achieving flight,

1286
01:41:21,159 --> 01:41:26,800
the flying wing in the delta shape
is not It's conduced it for certain

1287
01:41:26,880 --> 01:41:31,560
platforms, but it's not the most
stable, uh flight pattern. And in

1288
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:35,319
fact, you know when they lost
a B two a couple of years ago,

1289
01:41:35,359 --> 01:41:40,560
and the Philippines they had a B
two that crashed on takeoff, billion

1290
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:45,079
dollars gone in a few seconds.
That was that was because moisture got into

1291
01:41:45,279 --> 01:41:53,199
a system because it wouldn't fly without
these computers that that helped stabilize it and

1292
01:41:53,239 --> 01:41:56,319
do all these different things to get
it off the ground. And so,

1293
01:41:56,560 --> 01:42:00,079
um, it's a long way of
saying, there's still more questions that I

1294
01:42:00,079 --> 01:42:03,640
would want to know there, because
obviously if it's not us, well then

1295
01:42:03,640 --> 01:42:06,760
why would somebody else use this delta
shape? You know. I've had people

1296
01:42:08,439 --> 01:42:14,720
share me their theories that it has
to do with energy propulsion, that actually

1297
01:42:14,760 --> 01:42:18,840
what you're seeing with these triangles or
you know, three or more different detached

1298
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:26,039
probe like things that come together to
form a shape for propulsion. I don't

1299
01:42:26,079 --> 01:42:30,800
know if that's true. Sounds like
a good idea, but I do believe.

1300
01:42:30,880 --> 01:42:34,039
I mean, I know when I
was still living in Georgia, I

1301
01:42:34,079 --> 01:42:38,920
lived directly over the flight line from
Fort Stewart to Hunt our Army airfield,

1302
01:42:39,039 --> 01:42:45,680
and the one sixtieth Night Stalkers for
this Army Special Operations Wing is there before

1303
01:42:45,680 --> 01:42:48,199
Stewart. A lot of people don't
realize is the largest land mass army base

1304
01:42:48,239 --> 01:42:51,600
in the United States. So they
did a lot of weird things out there.

1305
01:42:53,239 --> 01:42:56,720
And I work night shift for latter
part of my career, and I

1306
01:42:57,079 --> 01:43:00,880
can distinctly remember being, you know, up at like three o'clock in the

1307
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:09,920
morning and working in the garage or
something and seeing two low flying triangular looking

1308
01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:15,520
crafts coming across the flight line following
the Oguichi River, headed out towards the

1309
01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:20,159
Atlantic Ocean, in fact, where
the Roosevelt pilots in twenty fifteen encountered their

1310
01:43:20,199 --> 01:43:24,760
objects. That was, it was
a stone throw from my house. The

1311
01:43:24,760 --> 01:43:30,239
Atlantic was right there. Now,
these looked interesting. They I think they

1312
01:43:30,319 --> 01:43:35,359
probably were the RQ one seventy five
Arque when eighty or an early variant of

1313
01:43:35,399 --> 01:43:40,199
that, the new drones, um
so, but I never had any doubt

1314
01:43:40,199 --> 01:43:45,359
they weren't ours. But that says
we do have some interesting stuff that people

1315
01:43:45,359 --> 01:43:46,760
don't know about, and they do
come out, you know, late at

1316
01:43:46,840 --> 01:43:51,680
night and fly this type of stuff. So I think, well, yeah,

1317
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:54,840
go ahead. I'm sorry. I
was just gonna say. I think

1318
01:43:54,880 --> 01:43:57,640
I've always said that. I think
there's a combination of all of the above.

1319
01:43:57,920 --> 01:44:00,359
I think there's I agree, I
agree with that. One of the

1320
01:44:00,439 --> 01:44:06,239
things though, why would that Well, I think someone tried to answer this

1321
01:44:06,399 --> 01:44:11,560
for me, and the question was, why would these big, huge triangles

1322
01:44:11,560 --> 01:44:15,800
fly over populated areas if they were
you know, top secret. And you

1323
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:21,279
know why one of the an email
I got from someone it's they said,

1324
01:44:21,279 --> 01:44:25,359
it's purposely because they want to see
who reports it and why do they report

1325
01:44:25,399 --> 01:44:30,079
it as And if they're reporting it
as a UFO, then great, because

1326
01:44:30,119 --> 01:44:33,880
this is top secret. You know
what I mean, I understand the logic

1327
01:44:34,359 --> 01:44:39,479
if that is it, If it's
true, sure, I mean that,

1328
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:45,000
you know, maybe I think the
other thing here then I always tell people

1329
01:44:45,000 --> 01:44:49,640
when you when you want to examine
it from a classified technology standpoint. Uh,

1330
01:44:50,079 --> 01:44:53,960
Like I said, we're here,
my wife, We're at an air

1331
01:44:54,039 --> 01:44:59,039
base here in Germany. Our air
base here has about you know, I

1332
01:44:59,079 --> 01:45:04,239
think six seven eight thousand federal employees
and probably two or three thousand civilian employees.

1333
01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:09,840
There's a hospital, there's a grocery
store, there's the military version of

1334
01:45:09,880 --> 01:45:13,760
the Walmart, the BX schools,
I mean, you name it. It

1335
01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:19,760
is a community size of ten thousand
population um so huge significant infrastructure. I

1336
01:45:19,800 --> 01:45:25,439
don't even know what the budget is, but clearly in the millions that is

1337
01:45:25,479 --> 01:45:32,520
for twenty four F sixteen fighter jets. That's amazing. Yes, wow,

1338
01:45:32,760 --> 01:45:39,520
And is that considered a large base
for other operations besides oh no, no,

1339
01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:43,199
this is so you're talking that someone
that has a base that has a

1340
01:45:43,199 --> 01:45:46,720
lot more equipment on it. It's
going to be much more popularly. Oh

1341
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:49,760
god, yes, yeah, four
stewarts. Yes, I grew up on

1342
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:54,479
military bases or around them, and
yes, this is this is tiny,

1343
01:45:55,359 --> 01:46:00,680
but I bring that up to twenty
four planes. Think of all the logistics

1344
01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:08,800
necessary. Where are those same types
of logistics and everything necessary to house potentially

1345
01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:13,680
classified aerospace programs that have gone on
for decades? I mean we would put

1346
01:46:13,720 --> 01:46:16,840
them in with sightings like that?
Where? Where where is it? Where

1347
01:46:16,840 --> 01:46:21,560
are they hiding him? I mean, I can't believe we only have three

1348
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:27,119
minutes left? And so I thought
this question from Kevin was an appropriate one.

1349
01:46:27,479 --> 01:46:30,439
What's coming next? I think he
means up, you know on your

1350
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:33,399
website the debrief dot org. Cool. Well, first of all, hey

1351
01:46:33,479 --> 01:46:38,399
Kevin, it is great to hear
from you. I know Kevin from way

1352
01:46:38,439 --> 01:46:40,880
back. You know Kevin. Yeah
he's great. Yeah yeah, yeah,

1353
01:46:42,159 --> 01:46:45,520
he's got quite a background too,
Yeah, yes he does. And I

1354
01:46:45,560 --> 01:46:47,880
apologize, Kevin. I know I
have haven't gotten back to you in late

1355
01:46:47,960 --> 01:46:51,960
but now you see with a deep
brief hopefully you understand what I've been busy

1356
01:46:51,960 --> 01:46:55,119
to. But now I'm glad to
see your name because I need to get

1357
01:46:55,119 --> 01:46:57,279
back with you. We talked about
some stuff. We need to get back

1358
01:46:57,279 --> 01:47:02,640
to you anyway, Um, what's
next? You know when it comes to

1359
01:47:03,680 --> 01:47:06,640
the debrief, let's just say that, I mean we already we established that

1360
01:47:06,640 --> 01:47:12,000
when we said we want to cover
breakthrough science and disruptive technology, and so

1361
01:47:12,039 --> 01:47:16,279
you're going to see continuous stories coming
out that you know, examine a bias

1362
01:47:16,279 --> 01:47:20,880
towards future technology and things and give
a venue to for people to kind of

1363
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:26,720
see that kind of reporting on that
because we think that it's not just about

1364
01:47:26,760 --> 01:47:32,920
reporting it, but it's also twofold
inspiring innovation and technology and also you know

1365
01:47:33,359 --> 01:47:38,000
people you know, asking people questions
that relate to the ethics and things that

1366
01:47:38,039 --> 01:47:41,439
are involved in technology, so we
can get ahead of those curves. Now,

1367
01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:47,239
if you were talking about just UFOs, I don't know yet, not

1368
01:47:47,319 --> 01:47:49,680
that I'm hiding anything from it.
I would be honest with you. This

1369
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:56,039
last article took a lot of work
that I don't think people really recognize and

1370
01:47:56,800 --> 01:48:00,159
don't expect them to like. That's
not I don't say that for for any

1371
01:48:00,199 --> 01:48:06,520
reason other than to just say it
is very taxing and consuming um and and

1372
01:48:06,560 --> 01:48:13,479
so UM. I never want to
get a position where I'm forcing UFO stories

1373
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:16,039
because I think people want to hear
them, because I think that people fall

1374
01:48:16,159 --> 01:48:21,079
into traps of I'm glad to hear
you say that, because that that is

1375
01:48:21,119 --> 01:48:28,000
the downfall of a lot of really
good people and this field, like they

1376
01:48:28,039 --> 01:48:32,239
become less significant, so they create
um. I've just seen it happen so

1377
01:48:32,279 --> 01:48:36,159
many times. Unfortunately. UM.
You know, they try to make themselves,

1378
01:48:36,840 --> 01:48:43,199
you know, more important. Um
and and stretch the truth I should

1379
01:48:43,239 --> 01:48:46,319
say, or whatever it is to
you know, become pertinent. But anyway,

1380
01:48:46,760 --> 01:48:49,760
I'm glad to hear you say that. And uh, but it's been

1381
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:56,680
a real pleasure. I really have
enjoy talking today absolutely anytime, any anytime,

1382
01:48:56,760 --> 01:49:00,960
Martin, great time, great questions. All right, So you take

1383
01:49:01,000 --> 01:49:05,479
care and talk sooner you later on. All right. So again, next

1384
01:49:05,520 --> 01:49:12,159
week we do have coming up on
this show. We have I have it

1385
01:49:12,239 --> 01:49:16,479
up here at Jack Sill Slilla.
I can't remember what his deal was,

1386
01:49:16,520 --> 01:49:20,439
but anyway, I think it'll be
a great show. And that's not Tuesday,

1387
01:49:20,439 --> 01:49:25,039
which is in two days. That's
a week from Tuesday, So just

1388
01:49:25,119 --> 01:49:29,680
keep that in mind and everything will
be back to normal by then. And

1389
01:49:29,720 --> 01:49:32,760
by the way, I just want
to share this because it is near.

1390
01:49:34,520 --> 01:49:42,039
It is near Christmas, so check
this out. This is our merchandise and

1391
01:49:43,279 --> 01:49:47,319
I'm not sure what's going on here
anyway, we do have some T shirts

1392
01:49:47,399 --> 01:49:50,640
and all kinds of good stuff,
and you know, check it out there,

1393
01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:57,439
think about for maybe a Christmas present
for yourself or whatever. It's right

1394
01:49:57,479 --> 01:50:03,199
on our website podcast UFO dot com
and and you can get it done and

1395
01:50:03,279 --> 01:50:09,159
shipped in time for Christmas. Anyway, Thanks so much everyone, and we'll

1396
01:50:09,199 --> 01:50:11,960
see you next week. Oh,
I see what's going on. I had

1397
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:15,199
this going like that. That's what's
going on, all right. We'll see

1398
01:50:15,199 --> 01:50:19,279
you next week. And well,
actually yeah, a week, you know

1399
01:50:19,319 --> 01:50:21,600
what I mean on Tuesday. I
just don't have the date in front of

1400
01:50:21,600 --> 01:50:26,159
me. I think it's the twenty
second is when it will be. Wow,

1401
01:50:26,239 --> 01:50:29,720
that's the week of Christmas and we'll
be giving away, you know,

1402
01:50:30,039 --> 01:50:32,800
the T shirts at that time.
So thank you for everyone, and remember

1403
01:50:32,840 --> 01:51:01,600
to keep your eyes to the sky.