1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,200 Hello, and good morning you too. How are you doing good? He 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,439 I am so excited to talk to you about this book because it's one of 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,199 those books where it's like, where's it been? Because I didn't have this 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,400 when I was a child. There was you know, this is nothing new, 5 00:00:15,599 --> 00:00:18,280 but yet we're just starting to finally get out here and talk about it. 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:25,480 Yep. Could not at that myself, to bring it together as a 7 00:00:25,519 --> 00:00:28,480 team, because this is a collaboration here, What was it like to bring 8 00:00:28,519 --> 00:00:35,679 the story together? Oh, I can say this is Jolana. It has 9 00:00:35,799 --> 00:00:39,600 been such an honor for me to be able to work with Liz. Who 10 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:45,840 is This book that leads to its Wonders is about a Korean transracial adoptee, 11 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,840 and it is very much Lizz's story, and I just feel so honored to 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,600 be able to have worked on this project with her. She has been so 13 00:00:53,759 --> 00:00:58,719 courageous to share her heart, all the love and the pain and the process 14 00:00:58,759 --> 00:01:03,960 of even searching for her birth family as an adoptee, and it is it 15 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,239 just takes so much to be able to share such a personal story with the 16 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:12,280 world. And it feels like not only did I gain a very close friend, 17 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:18,439 but I've learned so much from her about adoptees, but just about human 18 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:23,560 being in general, and so it's been beautiful for me. Wow. So, 19 00:01:23,079 --> 00:01:26,719 Liz, as an adult, we're expected to understand the journey of adoption, 20 00:01:26,879 --> 00:01:30,920 but when I was a kid, I didn't understand it. And that's 21 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,719 the thing about that I love this book, is that I've taken the time 22 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,120 to really get into this story because you're giving us that chance to walk in 23 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:44,439 someone else's shoes. I think that's definitely been the hope, and thank you 24 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:49,120 so much for saying that. I have to say that I just also want 25 00:01:49,159 --> 00:01:53,599 to be really aware that I am so proud and grateful to be able to 26 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,040 share my story and my journey, and also for folks to know who read 27 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,879 it, that this is not meant to speak or behalf of all adoptees all, 28 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:07,239 even though transracial adoptee might seem like a small or specific identity, that 29 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:12,439 our experience is very so much And so I also just hope that folks you 30 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,680 read it, if you are an adoptee, that there might be one or 31 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,319 two things that resonate with you, even if it doesn't near your own experience. 32 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,560 I think one of the things that I had a difficult time dealing with 33 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,680 was the next year that I went back to school and I had a different 34 00:02:25,759 --> 00:02:30,560 last name and people looked at me and treated me differently, And I think 35 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,520 that, you know, that's a tough thing to deal with very much. 36 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,240 So I mean even things like growing up, even as a child, if 37 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:45,719 I went into a restaurant with my adoptive family, you present as white and 38 00:02:45,759 --> 00:02:50,560 I'm very much Asian, that the hosts at the restaurant might greet me separately. 39 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,680 Or if I'm in a store, people will, you know, greet 40 00:02:53,719 --> 00:02:57,800 my family and me separately because they don't assume that we go together. I've 41 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,919 even had like upward moments and I'm paying for something with a credit card and 42 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,719 someone will look at my last name on it and be like, how is 43 00:03:04,759 --> 00:03:07,199 that your last name? Like are you married? Did you take someone else's 44 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:14,120 last name? And I understand that people's curiosity is a very powerful feeling and 45 00:03:14,199 --> 00:03:17,400 emotion, and at the same time, people also need to be aware that 46 00:03:17,439 --> 00:03:23,400 they are not entitled to adopt these whole life stories trauma, all the answers 47 00:03:23,439 --> 00:03:25,639 that they just happen to be curious about in a moment. Joanna you can 48 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:30,039 walk through any grocery store and see how this book is very much a part 49 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:31,919 of our lives. And I think that it's going to be used as a 50 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,240 tool so that we can, you know, learn how to accept that we 51 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,439 don't all have to come from mom and dad. Men. There's true love 52 00:03:38,479 --> 00:03:45,639 there and we've got that open space to be a family. Yeah. Absolutely, 53 00:03:45,719 --> 00:03:50,199 And I think that this is this is Joranna, And I think that's 54 00:03:50,199 --> 00:03:53,879 something that's really powerful about sharing a story like this in the picture book form, 55 00:03:54,439 --> 00:04:00,319 is that it can speak both to young audiences and to adult audiences and 56 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,240 put your books because of the way that they are written, because of the 57 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:10,680 illustration, because we're really intentional about putting in layers that makes this story accessible 58 00:04:10,719 --> 00:04:15,360 for children, but also to adults. They can look at it and see 59 00:04:15,719 --> 00:04:19,360 with different eyes, having gone through more of life themselves. And so I 60 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:23,759 think that as they've mentioned, you know, as a child, this is 61 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,480 a story that really is one that is her story and one that maybe she 62 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,639 wanted as a child, but also as an adult, we can read it 63 00:04:30,639 --> 00:04:35,040 with different eyes. And when you talk about the grocery store, I think 64 00:04:35,079 --> 00:04:41,160 it's something that I hope readers can really use to examine some of the questions 65 00:04:41,199 --> 00:04:46,480 and some of that curiosity in safe spaces with with their loved ones. Now, 66 00:04:46,519 --> 00:04:48,560 Liz, there's something that's happening in my own personal life with with somebody 67 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:55,319 that we know that the child is from Japan. The parents are American, 68 00:04:55,639 --> 00:05:00,920 but they really are trying to get the young boy to understand Japanese culture, 69 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,839 and it seems like that they're pushing him in every single direction. Can parents 70 00:05:03,959 --> 00:05:13,680 over push, Yeah, definitely. This was a one hundred percent When I 71 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,120 was younger, I think my parents only tried once. They sent me to 72 00:05:16,199 --> 00:05:21,560 like koreem culture summer camps. I really didn't have any positive, like super 73 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:27,160 positive experiences. It was pretty uncomfortable. It felt like it was something that 74 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,319 was being done to make the parents feel better, not necessarily something for the 75 00:05:31,399 --> 00:05:38,199 kid. Every adoptee's journey, and you know, the process of understanding your 76 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,720 identity and your path is going to be different for everybody, and for me 77 00:05:42,879 --> 00:05:46,639 as a kid, I was honestly not thinking a ton about being adopted or 78 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:49,439 the trauma or loss a whole lot when I was, you know, six 79 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,759 or seven years old. I was just trying to figure out who I was 80 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,079 sitting with a lunch at school and like because on the one hand, I 81 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,160 can hold space for the fact that there is law in Greece and all of 82 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,800 these open ended questions that I would love to have the answers to, but 83 00:06:03,879 --> 00:06:06,720 I don't know if that will ever happen. And at the same time, 84 00:06:06,759 --> 00:06:10,959 I can hold space for the fact that I really love my adoptive family. 85 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,800 I love them the most. They're amazing, Joanna. One of the greatest 86 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,480 things about this book is that you include the father. So many stories don't 87 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,319 include dad. It's always mom and the kids and things like that. And 88 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:26,040 so to see the father fishing I mean, and to have the lines all 89 00:06:26,079 --> 00:06:30,680 tangled up and everything, I laughed like a kid. I love that. 90 00:06:30,759 --> 00:06:35,160 So part of the reason that made it into the book is, you know, 91 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,439 I actually have been a huge lid band for a long time. Liz 92 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:45,399 is a super well known educator and Andrei by Seri theater, and she has 93 00:06:45,399 --> 00:06:48,800 made such impact all over the world in many arenas, and so I have 94 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:55,160 been following her online for many years. And I knew that she went flag 95 00:06:55,199 --> 00:06:57,519 mashing, and she went fishing with her dad, and it's something that she 96 00:06:58,319 --> 00:07:02,120 shared with him and something as we talk, and as you know, there 97 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:08,160 were so many ideas that she shared about her story that felt important to capture, 98 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,639 and the fishing scene just felt like the perfect way to both capture this 99 00:07:12,839 --> 00:07:18,800 core memory of hers and also many of the things that she shared about the 100 00:07:18,839 --> 00:07:24,560 beauties and the challenges as an adoptee in even in a really loving family. 101 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,800 I love the way that you shake hands with your readers in the very beginning, 102 00:07:27,839 --> 00:07:30,319 Liz, with the dear reader note. I think that that's so important 103 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:36,399 before they bust into the book. Yeah, that part was really really important 104 00:07:36,439 --> 00:07:40,680 to me. You know, some of the things that I've already mentioned about 105 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,759 not wanting people to think that this is the one single story of adoption, 106 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,240 really wanting to speak to adoptees who might be reading it that, however, 107 00:07:48,279 --> 00:07:53,480 they might be feeling like their feelings, their experiences are valid. It might 108 00:07:53,519 --> 00:07:57,480 look similar, it might look different, And I think, as I wrote 109 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,120 that, my hope really is to just one day be able to look back 110 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,279 and note, this book is like one of the many threads that make up 111 00:08:05,319 --> 00:08:09,639 this beautiful tapestry of adoptee literature out there. I hope we get there. 112 00:08:09,879 --> 00:08:13,720 I was going to ask you that this can't be the only time you're going 113 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,240 to be doing this, and because I was so touched by it, There's 114 00:08:16,279 --> 00:08:22,720 got to be other stories. Oh absolutely, and there definitely has been. 115 00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:28,079 I think more books coming out these days featuring adoptee stories, which is amazing. 116 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:33,120 However, could always use more. Now, Joanna, will you write 117 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:35,840 stories about you know? Because you know, and a lot of these have 118 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:39,519 been about younger girls or younger boys, But how about that story of the 119 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,960 transition into teenhood or from transitions from teen into adult. Will we see anything 120 00:08:45,039 --> 00:08:50,879 like that where we're actually growing with your your characters? I said that, 121 00:08:50,279 --> 00:08:54,360 sure me. I have written so I have a young adult novel. It's 122 00:08:54,360 --> 00:09:00,519 called The Silence That Binds Us, explores and Asian racism, black and Asian 123 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:05,080 solidility, and also just the power of finding your voice and the consequences that 124 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,919 often come with that. I don't know that I will pull characters for my 125 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:15,440 picture books up to your young adults. That I certainly do write for multiple 126 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,080 different age groups, because there is so much more you can say, even 127 00:09:20,279 --> 00:09:24,159 in you know, depending on the forms that we're telling stories through. How 128 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,840 did you go through the editing process, Liz, because so many times we 129 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,960 have so many words inside of us. But in a book like this, 130 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:37,799 a picture book, you know, being concise is valuable. It's so true 131 00:09:37,799 --> 00:09:41,279 because it's funny. The first book that I wrote and published was a book 132 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:46,000 on antibias education for teachers, and when you write for adults, you don't 133 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:52,600 really have this cap on words. And so going from you know, use 134 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,679 up all the word sentences, like all these examples you like, and then 135 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:58,840 being told, okay, so you have like thirty two pages and let's go 136 00:09:58,919 --> 00:10:03,840 on for a max of like five sentences for spread was a type of editing 137 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:11,279 I've never experienced. I truly think that writing picture books is the hardest type 138 00:10:11,279 --> 00:10:13,919 of writing I've ever done. And I've done a lot of different types of 139 00:10:13,919 --> 00:10:18,840 writing, and so when it come came to editing, and I'm so grateful 140 00:10:18,879 --> 00:10:24,559 to have, you know, such an amazing collaborative partner like Joanna, that 141 00:10:24,519 --> 00:10:28,879 we were both really open to feedback if there were ever, you know, 142 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:35,279 questions or challenges that we've brought up around certain words selection Like for example, 143 00:10:35,399 --> 00:10:39,879 I think I remember one piece what we were editing early on was language that 144 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,679 I felt kind of implied ownership, and that's something that I think a lot 145 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,679 of adoptees are very sensitive about, like can we change some of these words 146 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,639 to like, you know, convey a different idea or feeling? Oh my 147 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,919 god, you know you just you just shot me back to a part of 148 00:10:54,759 --> 00:10:58,080 a Mark Twain's book where he talked about that, you know, as we 149 00:10:58,159 --> 00:11:01,200 grow older, never lose our act sense as as regular people, as creative 150 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:07,360 people, but always stay true to who you are. Yeah, yeah, 151 00:11:07,399 --> 00:11:11,200 I love it. Where can people go to find out more about the two 152 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,720 of you this collaboration as individual writers, just so that people can give you 153 00:11:13,759 --> 00:11:18,039 a lot of love, because you guys are so courageous to be able to 154 00:11:18,039 --> 00:11:24,919 share stories like this. This is Joanna you. People can find me at 155 00:11:24,039 --> 00:11:28,399 Joanna l j O A n n A h O Wrights w r I T 156 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:33,559 e s dot com. That's my website, but Joanna hole Wrights is also 157 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,200 my handle on most social media platforms. I love it, Liz, How 158 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:45,480 can we find you? On Instagram? My handle is at teach and Transforms 159 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,759 and my writing website is www dot Liz klinlock K l e I n r 160 00:11:50,799 --> 00:11:52,399 o c K dot com. I love it. You guys have got to 161 00:11:52,399 --> 00:11:54,559 come back to the show anytime in the future. You know the door is 162 00:11:54,559 --> 00:12:00,320 always going to be open for you. Thank you for having us. Will 163 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,080 you be brilliant today? Okay, okay, you too.