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Stand stand the sun spla yeo,
yeo, Yeah, what's up? Welcome

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open, foreign baby. We haven't
done it in a while. It's nice

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to always come back and be in
this setting, to interact, to have

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the positions challenge, you know.
Aristotle said that is the mark of an

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intelligent man, and to understand the
opponent's position or another position without necessarily adopting

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it. And that's what I always
have a strip to do. I strived

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to do, striven to do from
the earliest days. I heard doctor Bondson

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many years ago say that the ideal
that we should shoot for in learning to

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debate and so forth is to be
able to state the opponent's position to their

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satisfaction. That always doesn't That doesn't
always happen in a debate. Things get

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heated, and you kind of don't
always do that, but not because you're

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intentionally trying to do this, just
sometimes it just doesn't happen. And sometimes

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people aren't really civil, level headed, so they get really emotional and they

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get really distracted. And nothing wrong
with being emotional in a debate or getting

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heated, that's part of debate.
Let people don't know that. But when

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the heat clouds your judgment and you
can't think straight. Then then you kind

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of you get fumbled, you get
your reason is gonna be clouded if you're

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controlled by your emotions. So it's
I think, really a skill that you

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have to kind of develop. And
that's why you can be really smart but

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bad at debate, because debate requires
you to be to a degree able to

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control your emotions. Now again,
it doesn't mean you can't get mad,

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you can't get heated. But if
you get mad, you get heated,

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and then it messes up your flow
and your argumentation, then you're in trouble.

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But we're in this weird, pussified
state of things where people think that

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debating is inherently evil. It's mean, it's bad, it's Western, it's

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Latin, it's Protestant, it's it's
all the stuff which is not true anyway.

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So it doesn't mean that debate is
our main focus in life. Doesn't

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mean that debate is the essence of
religion or something like that. But it's

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part of being a rigorous thinker,
it's part of being intellectual, it's part

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of the life of the mind.
Not everybody is called to that, Not

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everybody has to do that, and
not everybody has those kinds of gifts.

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Ideally we could all work together if
we used our gifts in the right way,

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right, especially in the church.
So but sometimes people get envs.

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They want shortcuts, they want to
say, oh, that's bad. I

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can bypass all that because I'm really
pious, and let me show you on

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the internet how pious I am.
That's my number one pet peeve. I

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can't stand that. It makes me
just cringe, and I pretty much just

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disassociate with anybody who operates that way
because I know that kind of person,

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that mindset, and what they're going
to be like, and it's not the

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kind of person that I want to
be anywhere near, because a lot of

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times most people have blow ups and
meltdowns after a few years. That was

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what I was writing about on my
sub stack recently, which is there's multiple

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extremes. Right. We're going to
go to the open form here in a

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second, but I was wanted to
voice a few thoughts before we have the

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debate. Are open form? No, you don't have to debate, obviously,

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you can ask questions if that's what
you want. Most people don't want

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to debate if you're civil. I
always give people the opportunity anybody can come

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and offer their challenge, their argumentation, their discussion, their critique if they

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want to. And people say,
well, you interrupt if you're not going

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to address the topic. Yes,
I interrupt. I don't interrupt just to

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interrupt, but I can immediately tell
when somebody is not going to deal with

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the argument that was presented right,
or they're using fallacies for example, and

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Kiku, you debate. There's at
least three fallacies that I called out,

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and Dane didn't even seem to be
aware of what fallacies were. He was

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like mystified by this this concept,
which I think says a lot about Islam.

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Now that's not to say that there's
no Islamic opponents out there that are

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aware of fallacies, but it's just
simply not the type of religion that lends

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itself to those kinds of logical,
rigorous thinking, coherently and consistently practices.

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Hence it's ten. It tends to
rely on just a sort of rabid appeal

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to authority, and then any attempt
to do colam it's you know, tends

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to be shut down, at least
early Colam was. And then you have

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attempts to then make Islam, you
know, more rational, so to speak

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anyway. But in the point that
the point of what I'm getting at is

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just that throughout that debate we could
see that there was an anti rational,

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anti logic, anti reason trend,
and we see the same thing amongst the

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Orthopietists that are under the impression that
debate is a Latin Western heterodox scholastic thing.

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In fact, I was just rereading
Romanedes, I was reading Lacos's new

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book, and he says the same
thing. We don't do debate. Church

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fathers didn't new philosophy, metaphysics is
bad, on and on and on,

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and it's just simply not true.
So there's extremes, obviously, just as

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much as you could have rigorism as
an extreme. And you're obsessed with I

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don't know, calendar dates as an
Orthodox person, and this is all you

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care about is calendars and calendars,
and right, you could be obsessed over

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that to the point of making your
whole world view irrelevant. You're just another

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pharisee. All you care about is
calendar dates. I'm not saying calendar dates

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don't matter. I'm just saying that
you could conceivably make that into an idol.

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Well, guess what, Just as
much as the intellect or academia could

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be an idol, your own piety
and displays of piety could be an idol.

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Do you ever think of that?
People don't think of ideolatry as an

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idol, and in fact, Palamos
even speaks of it this way. He

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says that if we have a purely, for example, philosophical conception of God,

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we've created an idea poltry. Ideolotry, ideas can be idols. Concepts

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could be idols just as much as
a little patcha Mama totem pole could be

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an idol. You see, bro, you're just about to get banned.

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Why are you gonna You're gonna spam
me twenty times? What do I think

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about RFK? You're immediately going to
get booted? So stupid anyway. Rhetoric

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is also part of debate, as
they said many times, and rhetoric includes

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Go watch any formal classical debate.
Go watch Hitchens debating at the Oxford Union,

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and he uses jabs, jokes,
right, sarcasm, wit, You

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make jabs at the opponent, that's
part of a debate. We're in this

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weird atmosphere where people's psyches are fragile. They can't handle that. They have

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mental breakdowns if you make a joke
about them and they say you're mean.

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Anyway, I'm your mean Internet debate
daddy, Baby, We're gonna open it

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up. Today's topics are all slam
poetry. So if you're a drunk wine

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mom or wine ant and you have
just laid down some sick bars, please

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split those bars at me, because
all I want to talk about up is

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your rap battle skills as a wine
mom. Right, So hopefully you've had

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a nice drop of a nice gulp
from a goblet of box wine, and

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you've had a few Virginia slims,
you're packing, you're ready to go,

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bring it to me. All we
want to hear about today is your slam

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poetry, and I want you to
spit your bars. Psych I do not

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want you to spit your bars.
And I don't care about your slam poetry.

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And I don't know why anybody would
have ever thought I care about But

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now there was this trend of like
two or three wine moms and wine ants

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who were calling in to rap,
and I'm liking to do their It wasn't

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trolling. They were like really doing
that. I wish that one drunk woman

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would call back because she was she
was fun. I thought that would go

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viral. It was so good,
but it didn't get them many views where

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she said, you're a tyrannical reigner
and you're arrogant as freak as pep.

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But so those are the only two
ye moms that can call back in.

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If those women want to call back
in, they're allowed to. And I'm

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just going to prove to her through
kindness and I'm not a tyrannical reigner because

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I want her to call back in. But yeah, anybody else, Today's

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topics getting more serious here. If
you want to talk about Roman Catholicism and

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the papiscy, if you want to
talk about what's wrong with the arguments I

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make about Orthodox stuff or natural law
or natural theology. You want to talk

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about tag pre sup if you want
to talk about metaphysics, speismology, logoslogi

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energies, Islam in the Quran,
atheism, materialism, if you want to

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talk about Calvinism, Christology, whatever
it is you want to bring it,

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You're welcome to bring it, as
you know the rules are you can have

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the floor for as long as you'd
like to make whatever arguments you want.

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We're not here to talk about whether
I'm a KGB sorcerer. That's already well

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established by the Internet Internet Committee of
Verified Official News Guard researchers, which have

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conclusively proven that I am a KGB
sorcerer. So that's out of the way.

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Now we can move on to the
issues. And the issues are the

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ones that I just listed. If
you call in and you want to talk

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about geopolitics, I'm not interested today. We've done plenty of geopolitical talks.

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That's not today. We're not talking
about conspiracies, We're not talking about movies,

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none of that. That's not today. Now, invariably somebody's gonna call

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in and say, oh, oh, do oh like your work? Uh,

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guto about movies or what today?
No, heck no, not today.

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Also, guess what, You're gonna
be muted, not by me,

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but by Elon when you come on. When I give you the microphone.

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Elon's got this thing programmed. He
sent emails to the motherboard and it programmed

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it to make you muted. When
you come on, you gotta I mute

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yourself. Yes, you hear me, you gotta mute yourself. Please,

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don't make me say five hundred times
I'm mute, dude, even though we

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all know that I am gonna have
to say five hundred times I'm mute,

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dude, and then that guy will
go, you hear me, Yes,

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I can hear you, so we
don't have to rehearse this. You I

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mute yourself. Yes, I can
hear you. Now, how many times

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are we gonna say today, I'm
mute, bro, and then that guy's

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gonna go, ooh, yes,
I'm just having fun. You mean,

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look, it's no, it's just
having fun. Man. It's just she's

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sing giggles, dude. Nah Son, It's like shit Saint giggles Bro.

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Nah Son. I feel like Judy
Jim's son today. Nah Son. All

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Right, Remember, though, you
can talk for as long as you want

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within reason. You don't get an
hour one day. It was all don

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our presentation. No, you can't
do our presentation. Put everybody asleep.

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You can talk within reason for as
long as you want, present whatever arguments

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you want. Got it, everybody
know the rule. Very simple rules.

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Again, Try to be civil.
Don't talk about a bunch of nonsense that

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we can't talk about on YouTube.
You're immediately gonna get bouted, booted.

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We won't talk again. Also to
the evangelical dude, I know your voice,

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and as soon as I hear your
tone, I'm I'll know it's you,

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and I'm immediately gonna boot you.
We will not interact. And it

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has nothing to do with being scared
of your argument. I'm just tired of

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your calling in for two years with
the same thing every time. So I

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know you're gonna call in today and
I'm not gonna listen to you. So

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you're just wasting your time and my
time. And everybody on my audience knows

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your voice. Everybody knows unless you
start doing a unless you call in with

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a Darth Vader voice disguiser. But
even if you do that, I'm gonna

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detect your dumb ass arguments within twenty
seconds, bro, So I don't even

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waste our time if you call in, at at least call in with a

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Darth Vader voice changer. You'll get
a little bit further with me if you

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do that. But and everybody in
the audience knows you're gonna call in too,

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And I know you're gonna call you, but I'm not gonna listen to

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it because I know you're making you're
probably making a new profile right now as

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we speak. He's not a stalker. He's just a goofy evangelical dude that

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always makes the same argument. It's
like after the first two and three hour

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interchanges from two years ago, there's
no point. And then he's like,

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you never let me speak. No, I'll let you speak for like two

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hours. The first two times you
calling in, we argue maybe an hour,

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hour and a half. You never
let me finish, dude, because

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you can't finish because you're running in
a circle like Daniel Hooki Kichu over there

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at Mecca running in a circle.
Okay, all right, open for him.

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Let's keep it to the rules,
keep it cool, don't lose your

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don't lose your don't lose your mind
yet we know you're gonna lose your mind,

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all right. We gota zelch what's
up? Zelch belch him with a

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z zelch Are you there? Says
it's connecting. Hopefully we don't have connection

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issues. Sometimes that happens. Not
on my end. I think we're I

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think we're streaming with clarity today,
my boy Clarity over here. We got

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cleanness and clarity over here. I'm
mute, dog, I see you you're

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own. I'm mute, zelch Are
you there? All right? We're gonna

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have to move on, Broy.
Try to come back in later because it

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ain't working. Big Gun, what's
up, dude, Big Guns? You're

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here? Okay. I have a
couple of questions, but but just just

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one at a time. Of course, I don't want to take up anyone

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else's time, you know. But
I've been looking into Orthodoxy and I find

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it very appealing to me in the
ideas that the one true, the one

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holy Catholic Apostolic Church. You know. It's like it's like, this is

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how, this is how we actually
connect with Christ because he actually left us

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a church, because he actually left
us a visible church. And I really

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like that. But I have a
couple of Protestant friends, and I want

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to know how to respond to them
in the correct way, because I have

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a friend who is a Baptist,
and he uh and he's he's striving,

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he wants to be an Anglican and
and he refers to the thirty nine Articles,

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and then he refers to the Council
of Jerusalem. He says, well,

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he talks to me and says,
he says, well, in your

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tradition, uh, you basically say
that I'm not a Christian essentially, And

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it because he refers to the part
into he refers to the party in the

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Council of Jerusalem where it says says, if there's not a bishop anywhere near,

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then there's not a Christian that can
be spoken of. Right. I

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agree with that, Right, I
agree with that because without a bishop,

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then how can you have where the
church is? Where the bishop is,

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there's the church right all the way
back to the post Apostolic fathers. Yeah,

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yeah, I completely agree with that. But I think he's just kind

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of taken it out of context and
saying and saying that, you know,

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I have a couple of anathemas on
me, and says, well, how

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can you have any anathemas on you
when you're not even in the church,

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right, because we're anathemas are not
for people in the church. Anathemas are

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pointing out the errors that have removed
people from the church. Well, well,

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could you explain to me what an
anathema is, because like, as

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far as it means you're cursed,
you're excommunicated. So if you hold to

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the views of anybody excommunicated, you're
outside the church. You can't be inside

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the church and an athema. That's
impossible. Well, the way I've heard

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that they the anathema has been said
is that it's nothing else except a complete

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odor separation from God, the Father, the Son, of the Holy Spirit.

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An athema means you're excommunicated and rejected
from the Church. So everybody who

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believes, for example, if you
read this Sonauticon of Orthodoxy, there's a

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whole list of all of these different
positions that are anathematized. So it means

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you're rejected, you're not in the
church. Okay. Well, then it

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confuses me because then I know that
one of the councils, it says,

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says, let him be anathema from
the Father, Son, and the Holy

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Spirit. Well, I mean by
extension, Yeah, Like if you're anathema

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from the church, you're an athema
from the triad because the Church is the

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image of the Triad on earth.
Okay, So how could I explain that

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to my my quote unquote Anglican friend, because he's just kind of like,

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because you know, well, okay, so let's just talk about the fact

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that Anglicanism is a Protestant brand theory, that is that can you mute when

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I'm not you got yeah, sorry, it's okay. Yeah. So Anglicanism's

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main mistake, other than all the
Protestant presuppositions, is just that it's a

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branch theory of the church. The
Church is divided amongst the major sex that

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come out of the Reformation and amongst
the early Church. So when when Henry

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the eighth created his church, he
had to come up with a new way

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to speak of and signify the quote
unity of the church. So it's kind

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of the first Ecumanist project. In
terms of Protestantism. You could go all

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the way back to the papacy and
argue that Renaissance papacy is the real root

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of Ecumanism. But Anglanism in this
regard is a ecclesiastical heresy. So the

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heresy is the idea that the church
is divided or split amongst various groups or

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branches, and it tries to argue
from oh, well didn't Jesus say that

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I'm the you know, you're the
I'm the vine, you're the branches.

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So, therefore, branch theory that
has nothing to do with saying that the

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church church is divided amongst split divided
branches. That's ridiculous. There's one Lord,

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one faith, one body, one
Baptism, and that's a visible group.

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That's why there's no Anglican church in
the first thousand years. There's only

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one church. So the question is
who's in continuity with the Church of the

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first thousand years. And it's sure
it's Anglicanism, right, right, right.

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And I hope, I do hope
to get into Eastern Orthodoxy because the

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closest one is, you know,
in my area, is like an hour

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and a half away. But I
hope it's worth I really do hope it's

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worth the drive for sure. And
a thing is too about the my friend

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who is the Protestant in question,
he believes in like solo fitte a solo

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scriptoria, and it's like it's like
I've tried to refute him on the soli

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scriptorial arguments to say, you,
dude, you're just using the circular argument.

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It's completely circular. Says the Bible
is the Bible because the Bible says

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so, it's completely ridiculous, right, And he says, well, well,

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then he says, uh, I
think he says, no, it's

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completely dumb, because there's in the
early Church people had the idea of of

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the there's a difference between the recognition
of infallibility and the position of infallibility.

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He just watches cabin. Well,
I mean they didn't have these videos.

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Yeah, but they didn't have a
Bible, so they'd had the cannon of

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scripture. So I mean Protestantism,
soul scripture requires there to be like a

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full closed cannon, right, Otherwise, how are we knowing the fullness of

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the mind revelation. We need the
whole deposit, and if the deposit is

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contained only in the written text,
then the church is in this severely deficient

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position for all of those centuries until
in our view it's really Trollo and then

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Nicia too. Right, so it's
Trolo and then Council six and seven before

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the no, I was blowing my
nose. If you are asking why did

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you go away? I blew my
nose. By what you're gonna get you

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get booted for just doing that.
I don't do. I have allergies,

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so good job you just got booted. Anyway, if you want to see

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the watch the faithless, the not
faithless. Was that the debate that we

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did with Dale Dale is like the
perfect Protestant debate, And I didn't even

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though that was a debate. I
did want your debate with Pedro and I

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thought that was very interesting. Well, this one is more along the lines

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of what you're talking about. So
if you go look up the Dale debate,

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it's solo scripture refuted a discussion with
Jay Dyer and bau Branson and Dale.

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So, oh, you mean that
one was like a faith unaltered that's

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at Yeah, I mean Dale tries
to argue the kind of thing that you're

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talking about. Also, we did
a discussion with Sam Shamoon that covers this

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in a lot of depth. All
right, No, that's a that's really

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good. I appreciate that. Yep. Good questions. Is there another question?

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One thing about so how would I
define I'm I mean, i'm i'm

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I'm I'm a slow boy. I'm
sorry, but but I was trying.

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I was trying to, you know, understand the concept between the anathema and

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an excommunication, Like wouldn't you just
say, you know, it'd be an

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excommunication instead of an anathema. It
just means, it just means impose laters

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says that let him be anathema.
If anyone speak a different gospel, the

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word just means you're accursed. So
I don't know. I'm not I'm not

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trying to be rude. I just
don't understand the confusion. So, an

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excommunication is when the Church officially pronounces
so and so excommunicated. Arius, the

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heretic is excommunicated because of blah blah
blah. Right, and all who believe

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Arius as heresies are anathema. So
it just means you're a cursed right,

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right. But the thing is that
poses me is like you know, in

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the Second Council, and I see
it. It just defines the anathema as

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a complete and odor separation from God. That's what a curse means. I

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mean, it's what what's the confusion? I don't well, I was just

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saying, because you know, like
they have the power to take away your

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salvation or something like that. Like
the Church is not taking away your salvation.

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The Church is pronouncing a judgment on
what you've already done. Right,

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just like the Church doesn't send you
to hell, right, the Church is

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saying you will if you do this, be condemned by God. Not by

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the church. The church is just
ratifying or elucidating or saying the judgment of

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God. Does that make sense,
Yeah, yeah, that doesn't make sense.

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It's just it's just that I've been
having I've I've kind of had it,

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you know, like in my head
that okay, if in excommunication means

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this, which means you're denied the
sacraments, and in an anathema would just

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mean that you're completely utterly separated from
God, which I would say, you

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know, it would make sense that
you know, Arius lost his salvation because

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he didn't repent of his heresy,
right, and so even though he possessed

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the full of the faith that was
inside of the church, he chose to

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go against it anyway. And I
would I would feel like, you know,

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in anathema would be someone for someone
who would be inside of the church

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to reject the fullness of the truth
in the faith, and then no,

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you'd be anathematized. No, anybody, anybody can be anathematized, right,

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That's why, for example, the
Sonauticon says Greek philosophers are and there and

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people who hold their views are an
athema. If you believe the ideas of

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Plato, you are an athema according
to the Sonauticon, right, and in

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the Council of Jerusalem in sixteen seventy
two, like, if you hold the

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ideals to Calvinism, you're an athema. Correct, Yeah, yeah, okay,

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that would make sense. I do
that does make sense. Like I

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don't. I don't really see the
power of an individual human being being able

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to send you to hale because you
are unrepentant, because ultimately the heresy is

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up to you to choose honestly.
Right, But the church has the ability

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to exercise I mean, Paul says, for example, the people at Corinth

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that are causing the problem, he
says, throw them out. Why have

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you not thrown them out? Right? So the church has the authority to

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00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:12.200
throw people out, not arbitrarily or
willy nilly, because you can have corrupt

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00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:18.000
bishops that uh throw people out for
bad reasons or try to they can abuse

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00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:21.240
that power, correct and so but
in the long run they end up being

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wrong and the people are vindicated.
So but the church still has authority to

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00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:29.640
do that. Okay, It's that's
like saying that. That's like saying that,

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00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:33.519
Well, it's like saying if a
father in a household abuses his authority,

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then no fathers have authority. You
see how that's a fallacy, right

336
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.880
right, right, So then it
then it falls to the question of the

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00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:48.559
no salvation outside the church people who
are anathematized, Which would which would you

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00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:53.759
know, consider every single Protestant that
would believe excuse me, that would can

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00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:57.279
consider believing. Yeah, so I'm
just gonna like, yeah, we've covered

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00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:00.400
this a lot of times. I'm
not trying to, but you can find

341
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:04.319
like probably fifty different previous live streams
where we cover this topic. So just

342
00:32:04.359 --> 00:32:06.920
to move on, so we don't
have to cover this because it gets into

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00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:12.200
the explanation of whether a person can
be united to Christ in extraordinary ways like

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the thief on the cross, which
I think can happen. It's not salvation

345
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.519
outside the church, because nobody's saved
without being united to the mystical body.

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But if God has ways by which
he can, out of the norm,

347
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unite people to the mystical body like
the thief on the cross, that's certainly

348
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possible to God. We don't know
that though from our vantage point, all

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we know is what's available to human
you know, temporal vision, and so

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we just simply tell these people it's
their duty to come into the church.

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But I'm not trying to be rude. It's just we've addressed that probably a

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00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:45.799
million times. So we're gonna move
on to the next guy who've tried to

353
00:32:45.799 --> 00:33:00.720
get in Zelch, what's up,
hit, I'm mute, all right?

354
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So the Orthodox Church being the one
Holy Catholic and Nepstolic Church, my question

355
00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:12.839
is, why hasn't the Northbound Church
replaced the current patriarch or the person in

356
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:19.720
place of the patriarch of Rome.
Was it supposed to be a gotcha?

357
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.559
Or is it like you you hung
out really quick there? No, that

358
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:27.039
My question was very simple. I
just wanted to get offices I had done

359
00:33:28.119 --> 00:33:32.000
right. So being no longer in
communion with the church established by Christ,

360
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.279
I'm aware of it. Yeah,
you don't think I've ever heard this argument?

361
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:39.839
No, No, that's a question
for me. I'm not even sure

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what the argument is. My question
is why has It's an argument that Roman

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00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:47.519
Catholics bring up all the time because
the art, the idea is that,

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00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:50.799
oh, well, if you're the
true Church, then you would have had

365
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.680
control over every every area that you
lost, and you would have been able

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00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:57.599
to put I'm not saying you're saying
that, I'm just saying it's a common

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00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:00.279
Roman Catholic objection. So Number one
there is that do you know there is

368
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:04.960
an Orthodox bishop in Rome? I
knew there was a bishop of the city,

369
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:09.199
but not quite the patriot. So
if we don't control an area,

370
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there's no way that we can,
like what, bring troops in and like

371
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:19.119
set up a you know, shut
down, shut down the Vatican or something

372
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:22.119
like that, because simply we don't
have the ability to the power, the

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00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:27.239
authority to do that. Right in
terms of the local reigning power there,

374
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:30.719
the Vatican is a protected city state. So you can't just it's like Washington,

375
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:35.119
DC and be like saying, be
like saying, well, you think

376
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:38.480
Biden is an illegitimate president, why
don't you go into DC and set up

377
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:43.360
a president? Right, just doesn't
the realities of geopolitics don't work that way.

378
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:49.639
But there are there is at least
one bishop in Rome proper who is

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00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:54.079
a Romanian bishop, and then there's
other bishops that have jurisdiction in that area.

380
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:59.119
So technically speaking, there are Orthodox
bishops in Rome, but there's not

381
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:02.599
a patriarchy because we the ability to
you know, override all the temporal state

382
00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:13.000
authority. Thank you, Yeah,
he did. He did sound a little

383
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:20.199
a little sassy there, it's a
little mad Margarie, Marjorie Marguerie. I

384
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:23.360
don't want people get so sassy and
mad about stuff like they can't. They're

385
00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:31.159
just triggered about things. What are
you triggered about, dude, Margerie mute?

386
00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:37.159
Hello, Yes, and Jay,
I'm sorry it takes a little bit

387
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:45.039
for the connection to the stubbs.
Anyways, I have a question about the

388
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:52.280
concept of time. I heard you
say a few times that tidd in orthodoxy,

389
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:55.199
time is linear, so there's a
beginning, of middle, and end,

390
00:35:55.280 --> 00:36:00.159
which makes sense, and it's in
opposition to the concept of time in

391
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:07.119
Eastern philosophy and religion where it's scret
and I understand is that correct or incorrect?

392
00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:15.760
So because that that basically leads to
nihilism because it's always going around in

393
00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:20.440
circles and there is no points.
Yeah, eternal return makes right, So

394
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:27.599
this is this makes sense. However, I heard a new another concept of

395
00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:32.039
time, which is kind of a
halfway through, where time is more like

396
00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:37.000
an upward spiral, where there is
a circle of more movement, but even

397
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:40.880
don't go back to the same point. So you still there's a progression,

398
00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:49.920
but you always go on a higher
level too, And I thought, this

399
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:53.119
is actually, this actually makes more
sense because you know, in Christianity there's

400
00:36:53.119 --> 00:37:00.159
this concept of the typology where things
come back as types, not exactly the

401
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:07.480
same, but similar, but always
with a fuller and higher You can't apparently

402
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:10.360
you can't hear me, and you're
it's really loud, and yeah, so

403
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:16.360
yes, it's fine to say that. You could look at time as moving

404
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:21.360
in a circle upwards, but you'll
notice if you're moving in a circle upwards,

405
00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:27.480
it's not eternal returns. It's not
a circle. It's a circle upwards

406
00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:31.400
where there's a progression. So this
point on the circle is not this point

407
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:36.280
on the circle. So you could
say that there's types and cycles to history,

408
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:38.000
but saying that there's cycles to history
like we see in the Book of

409
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:43.960
Daniel does not equate to cyclical history. So you might be referring to Saint

410
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:49.840
Gerga Nissa and the Kappadocians talking about
our ever moving progression up into God,

411
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:54.000
but that's typically their discussion of the
Uscatan. So in the u Scaton,

412
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:59.400
they're saying that we move up into
I'm not being condescending and arrogant, and

413
00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:02.960
it's that she couldn't hear what I'm
saying, and it's annoying when see these

414
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:06.480
people just love to come in the
chat and bitch like they just want a

415
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:10.920
bitch about stupid shit. Why don't
you call in? She couldn't hear my

416
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.280
responses, That's why it was.
Had nothing to do with me being arrogant

417
00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:19.519
and mean. It's that when I'm
talking sometimes on Twitter spaces, there's a

418
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:25.000
delay, so she couldn't hear what
I'm saying. So that's why I ended.

419
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:29.519
It's not me being condescending. So
it's if I can't talk back and

420
00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:36.039
forth, then I have to mute
the person because they're gonna keep talking and

421
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:38.119
they can't. They don't hear what
I'm saying until like thirty seconds later.

422
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:42.559
Okay, this is because when you're
on Twitter spaces, especially if you're on

423
00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:46.519
cell phone, there's a delay,
so the cell signaled delays for whatever reason,

424
00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:51.480
Twitter Space audios, So stop accusing
me of bad motives. It's just

425
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:52.920
so sick of this. There's all
these soy people who love to come to

426
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:59.440
the chat and just wait for me
to do something where they can like ah,

427
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:04.719
we got, and look how mean
and arrogant he is. Yeah,

428
00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:07.559
I'm so triggered yet, So why
don't you all you people bitch and why

429
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:13.679
don't you call in? There's nothing
more soy than tone policing, And all

430
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:19.639
you guys ever do is tone police. So there's your call in Reflective Journey

431
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:22.559
and whoever the other soy Man was
ABC fifty five, oh fifty two.

432
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:25.440
All you gotta do is call in. But you don't have any arguments.

433
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:30.880
All you have to do is all
you have is bitching about my modus operan

434
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:35.280
die one, has nothing to do
with the actual topics and has nothing to

435
00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:38.000
do with me being mean. It's
because there's a delay in Twitter space audios.

436
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:47.440
Ex Dirk, what's up, dude? Yo? What's u? Jay?

437
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:52.159
Yes, sir, hey man,
I want to know what's what's the

438
00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:59.840
Bible's take on eating pork? This
is a real question, not a real

439
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:07.000
question. I can already tell we
gotta, we gotta, Maximilian Box,

440
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:09.480
what's the Bible's position on eating port? There's nothing, Paul says that call

441
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:14.719
nothing unclean. Everything is cleansed by
the Word of God and by prayer,

442
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:17.960
So it can't be a serious question. Maximilian. We got a Protestant man.

443
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:23.599
He's got he's got a reformer in
his in his bio, hijack,

444
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:30.239
I have a question regarding the Trinity. So, okay, forgive me if

445
00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:35.519
this question has been addressed before.
I'm new to the stream. Okay.

446
00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:43.199
So I was watching this debate between
David Wood and Muhammad Tea Job recently,

447
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:49.360
and he Job posts some questions about
the Trinity that I felt that David Wood

448
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:52.239
did not address properly. I can, I can, I can. I

449
00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:58.199
can imagine that that's probably true because
I doubt that a Protestant evangelical is going

450
00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:02.119
to be proficient in the Trinity.
Yeah, exactly. So. So basically,

451
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:07.360
the main questions that he Job had
for what had to do with the

452
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:15.599
historical tradition of the Trinity. So
what he said was that the Jewish rabbis

453
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:21.280
in the Old Testament did not infer
a trinity. Did you watch my opening

454
00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:27.199
statement in the debate with Hiki Kichi
h No? I haven't seen that.

455
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:32.599
Okay, So the whole presentation is
Jewish trinitarian theology. Okay, yeah,

456
00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:38.000
all right, then I have to
watch that debate. And also another point,

457
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:40.880
Oh you gotta do is watch the
first fifteen minutes just for that topic.

458
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:46.039
But go ahead, okay. Well
another point of contention was that I

459
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:52.719
think it's probably related to this one
too, that the church fathers in the

460
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:59.960
first three hundred years before the Council
of Nicia also did not talk about it

461
00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:04.400
trinity. But I'm not sure.
I mean, is there super This is

462
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:07.599
really some texts which do talk about
it. Yeah, this is really low

463
00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:12.320
tier objection. So the word trinity
has nothing to do with whether or not

464
00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:16.079
the idea of the trinity is present. Do you understand that? Yeah?

465
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:20.719
Right, So I can coin a
term later on down the road, like,

466
00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:22.760
for example, the Fifth Council coining
the term. By the way,

467
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:28.800
to the guy in the chat day
use loudy t there's the number, there's

468
00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:30.480
the Twitter space to call in.
I guarantee no other people are going to

469
00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:34.960
call in. All these people bitching
in the chat Here he says that I'm

470
00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:38.119
scared when I turn on the live
stream button, I'm really scared. So

471
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.039
I'm giving you the chance to call
in if you think I'm scared. So

472
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:51.559
right, So, the Patristic tradition
of the Father, the Son, and

473
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:58.159
the Spirit being divine, you could
easily look that up on any even Catholic

474
00:42:58.199 --> 00:43:02.400
website, like within five minutes.
For example, what just I mean.

475
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:07.079
I'm not a Roman Catholic, but
I'm just saying this is so easily verifiable.

476
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:10.519
For example, what the early Church
believed about the Trinity. And this

477
00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:16.559
is just two pages of quotes from
the show me three pages of quotes from

478
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:22.679
the first three centuries about the deity
of the persons of the Triad. I

479
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.840
would take you about five minutes to
find and read that. So I'm not

480
00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:30.480
trying to be mean to you.
I'm just saying I don't understand this Muslim

481
00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:35.199
objection because they love to go to
this and I don't know where or how

482
00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:37.960
they've come up with this, because
it's one of the dumbest things that they

483
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:42.760
argue, because you could literally find
within five minutes that even if you think

484
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:47.800
it's wrong, it's just simply obviously
not the case that the post Apostolic fathers

485
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:55.840
from the time of Ignatious Clement up
to Nicia, that they denied the deity

486
00:43:55.960 --> 00:43:59.559
of the Father, of the Son
and the Spirit. Like it's just obviously

487
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:02.679
that they don't have to use the
word trinity, right, I don't understand

488
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:07.119
why people can't get even Trent Horne
couldn't get this argument right. It doesn't

489
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:13.199
matter whether the word trinity is used. What matters is, as Saint Jerome

490
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:16.559
says, the concept or the ideas
behind the word. If it was a

491
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:21.800
matter of the words, then we
could never translate the Gospel into other languages.

492
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:25.920
How could we translate the New Testament
into Aluit or something like this,

493
00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:30.159
or how could we convey these ideas
to them? It was all hinging on

494
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:34.639
the Latin word trinitass. This is
so dumb. It's like the lowest IQ

495
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:37.280
possible objection. And I think what
it is is that a lot of Muslims

496
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:43.320
don't know anything, so they just
kind of go to like evangelical liberals and

497
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:46.000
they go to dumb cults like Seven
Day Avenues or people like those, or

498
00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:50.760
Jove's Witnesses, and they look for
they just look for, like googled like

499
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:54.519
proof texts that the church fathers don't
teach the Trinity. And they usually argue

500
00:44:54.599 --> 00:45:00.639
from the position first that the word
trinity isn't used until Tollian or something,

501
00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:02.280
because again, it has nothing to
do with whether the ideas are there,

502
00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:07.360
Because I mean, my whole presentation
the first fifteen minutes was that, first

503
00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:14.599
of all, first second century Judaism
was not a monolithic entity, and the

504
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:21.199
idea that it was a strict unitarianism
is not clear until Mimonides. So my

505
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:29.840
Manides is one of the first clear
argumentations of a strict Unitarian philosophy for Judaism.

506
00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:34.440
Now that doesn't mean that there's no
Unitarian ideas in the first and second

507
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:37.920
century. It's just simply to say
that if you read Siegel, if you

508
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.960
read Summer, if you read Peter
Schaeffer, if you read Boyarin, all

509
00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:45.360
the people that I cited, all
the Jewish scholars that I cited in the

510
00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:49.400
first fifteen minute opening statement, you
will see that they make the point very

511
00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:55.440
clear that first century Judaism, second
center Judim is not a monolithic Unitarian enterprise.

512
00:45:57.280 --> 00:46:02.679
In fact, there are admissions of
three hypostases. Summer says, you

513
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:08.760
see it. So they're just simply
being honest with what Boyaran says. Quote.

514
00:46:09.519 --> 00:46:17.880
First century Christianity is a conservative Judaic
movement, meaning that they read the

515
00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:24.519
texts of the Torah and the prophets
in a conservative way, such that they

516
00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:30.360
recognized Jahweh, the Angel of the
Lord, and his spirit present throughout all

517
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:36.159
of those texts from Genesis up to
the minor prophets, especially Ezekiel Isaiah.

518
00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:39.320
Right, So, do you see
what I'm saying is that I'm not saying

519
00:46:39.320 --> 00:46:44.760
that Judaism true. I'm not saying
that it's true because Jewish scholars are saying

520
00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:47.039
it. Okay, I'm saying that
the Jewish scholars are admitting our point.

521
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:52.719
That's that's the argument, you understand, all right? Okay, So yeah,

522
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:57.119
thanks for the clarification. I will
look into this. Have one child

523
00:46:57.199 --> 00:47:01.880
question, sure, and it has
to do with the hypostatic union, which

524
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:07.199
I was a little bit confused by. This was also a point of contention

525
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:09.880
that he Job brought up in the
debates, and his contention was that how

526
00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:15.639
can Jesus Christ be one hundred percent
human but at the same time be one

527
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:22.000
hundred percent divine? And he was
taking it into psychological direction that you can't

528
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:27.599
really believe in a squared circle.
And yeah, I would be interested to

529
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:30.679
know what your response to that one
is. Well, that would be a

530
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:34.199
false analogy because the square is one
thing and a circle is another thing.

531
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:39.639
So the idea that one thing could
not have two different properties or one hundred

532
00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:45.480
percent of two different things is just
a basic philosophical misunderstanding. So, in

533
00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:50.199
other words, if I take an
object and I compose it of two different

534
00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:55.280
things, I don't. Let's let's
let's say I take a Let's say I

535
00:47:55.360 --> 00:48:00.880
take two pieces of legos, right, and I come buying the two pieces

536
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:04.519
of legos, and one of them
is a circle lego and one of them

537
00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:08.559
is a square lego, and they
perfectly fit together. Right. Isn't it

538
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:14.000
true to say that the new object
is one circle lego and one hundred percent

539
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:22.559
square lego? Yeah, I guess
right. So it doesn't mean that the

540
00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:25.599
new object is a tertium quid.
You know what a tertium quid is?

541
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:30.599
No, Yeah, so you should
learn this term. So altertium quid is

542
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:36.239
a new third thing. Okay.
The Muslim argument there is hinging on the

543
00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:39.679
new thing. That's a result of
the hypsetic union being a new third type

544
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:45.440
of object, that is a single
individuated object. That's why the Orthodox Church

545
00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:52.360
and even the Roman Caloic Church believes
that Christ maintains the two distinct natures even

546
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:57.880
after the union. Does that make
sense? Okay, So it doesn't become

547
00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:04.000
a new third god Man hybrid thing. It retains the properties, the natural

548
00:49:04.039 --> 00:49:09.679
properties of the divinity and the humanity
even after the union. So in other

549
00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:13.559
words, in other words, what
Muhammad jab or whoever you're talking about is

550
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:16.960
arguing against, it would be more
akin to arguing against the monophysite or the

551
00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:22.559
coptic position, which typically thinks that
maybe not in every one of their theologians

552
00:49:22.599 --> 00:49:27.039
case, but in many cases they've
argued that Christ's attertition quit a third thing.

553
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:34.880
Okay, yeah, do you understand
that or I'm not calling you out.

554
00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:43.039
Does that answer the question that's that
Jesus cannot be percent divine at the

555
00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:45.760
same time as being one hundred percent
Okay? Again, in the legos,

556
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:51.840
Okay, if I take one circle
lego and I squish it to a square,

557
00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:55.239
lego, it's a new it's a
new it's a new thing, but

558
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:59.400
it still has the properties of both
the square and the circle, right,

559
00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:06.440
yeah, Okay, So it's not
a it's not a tertium quid that I

560
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:08.039
mean, it's not a it is
a third thing in the sense that it's

561
00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:14.039
a it's a new a new reality, but the new reality didn't destroy the

562
00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:19.079
circle and the square previous reality.
It still retains the properties of both while

563
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:25.960
being a new thing, and that
new thing would be the for Jesus Christ,

564
00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:30.960
the hypothetic union. So now the
second person of the Godhead, the

565
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:35.559
second person of the Godhead, has
entered into a new motive being as incarnate.

566
00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:38.920
That's the new third thing. But
it's not a tertium quid that destroys

567
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:45.079
the realities of the properties of the
previous state. So the divinity did not

568
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:49.559
change and become man. This is
why we say he underwent no change in

569
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:57.559
the incarnation. Okay, he entered
into a new motive being without losing or

570
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:04.519
altering or changing his deity. All
right, Okay, well I have to

571
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:07.079
I will have to look into the
tertial quid, as you said, more

572
00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:12.400
to wrap my head around this concept. So the concept, again, to

573
00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:15.920
make it clear, is personal.
Quit is a new third thing such that

574
00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:24.360
it no longer has the properties of
the previous Okay, Jesus didn't lose the

575
00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:30.000
properties of deity and humanity in the
incarnation. It's that simple, okay,

576
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:37.000
Yeah, alright, And Monophysite theology
Coptic theology has tended to say that Christ

577
00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:43.480
is a new third thing that is
not divine nor human it's a divino human

578
00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:52.159
hybrid, right anyway, good questions. Just think about that. It might

579
00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:58.000
take you a little bit for that
to click, but you know, I

580
00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:05.960
mean, it's just kind of like
it's it's weird to me that they so.

581
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:07.639
One reason that they have a hard
time I think with one hundred percent

582
00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:12.639
God one hundred percent man is that
they're thinking in terms of counting by identity,

583
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:17.119
which is really hilarious because obviously we
don't typically count by identity. We

584
00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:22.280
count by division. And the Church
Fathers and the Creed all count by division.

585
00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:28.159
This is not counting by identity.
Sometimes you can count by identity.

586
00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:31.079
And we'll get into this more in
the future when doctor Branson comes on and

587
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:35.639
we'll be covering some of these papers
and we'll be covering counting by identity and

588
00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:44.440
counting by division. Typically speaking,
we count by division, especially when it

589
00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:50.760
comes to the ancient medieval world.
This is why the Creed says He's undivided,

590
00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:54.559
right, God is undivided. Maximus
Seas is the same idea as about

591
00:52:54.559 --> 00:53:00.599
the energies. The energies are one
and many, and they're indivisible, undivided

592
00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:07.400
in their multiplicity. Right, that's
a terminology that maximisuses, and so it's

593
00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:12.880
a way to note that we're not
counting by identity in the ancient medieval world,

594
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:19.239
although there are instances where you do
that, for example, in objects

595
00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:25.519
of second order imposition, those are
at times or most often counted by identity.

596
00:53:25.639 --> 00:53:30.559
For example, sets, you can't
count sets, and you can't count

597
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:37.519
things like abstract groupings like the ten
category Aristotle's categories. You have to count

598
00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:40.800
those by identity because there's no you
can't, for example, think of a

599
00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:45.920
third of a set or a third
of a law of logic. So objects

600
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:50.760
like that second order in position,
they're sometimes counted or they're oftentimes counted by

601
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:55.800
identity, but most things are counted
by division. And it's very we'll get

602
00:53:55.800 --> 00:54:00.480
into this more in the future.
It's not today's topic. But it's easy

603
00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:04.039
to show that you don't count by
identity. I mean, you can use

604
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:08.639
a piece of paper to show it. But also the analogy of legos is

605
00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:15.039
helpful because it's just an analogy,
so and it's just showing that saying something

606
00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:20.079
is one percent one thing and one
hundred percent another thing in its joining has

607
00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:28.719
nothing to do with the two different
diophysite things changing. So it's a union

608
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:35.960
without change, confusion, diminution,
or distinction or division. It's pretty simple.

609
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:40.960
JJ, what's up dude. By
the way, you guys can support

610
00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:45.800
via super chats. Send your superchats
through the stream labs link. It's right

611
00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:55.280
there. Are you there? I
guess he's connecting, So super chats are

612
00:54:55.360 --> 00:55:01.599
right there. Thank you to Cedric
and E Dennis and John Vander Shoot.

613
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:06.199
I will get to you guys a
super chats here in a minute. Uh,

614
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:08.239
if you want to call in.
We've had a lot of haters over

615
00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:14.079
here talking smack, but they never
call in. Uh, please, haters,

616
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:22.280
please call in right there. So, I guess JJ is having trouble

617
00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:24.960
connecting. Try coming out and coming
back in. JJ will move on to

618
00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:28.119
the next guy. We got a
lot of people who wanted to chat today.

619
00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:39.920
George, what's up? George?
Day? Jay? Sorry? Go

620
00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:44.239
ahead, Actually stand on my phone
FY to make sure I get the mic

621
00:55:44.360 --> 00:55:51.320
so whatever delay couldn't perceive them.
That's what it was. Okay. So

622
00:55:51.519 --> 00:55:55.599
yeah, have you ever done any
work on the f nation creed? Like

623
00:55:55.679 --> 00:56:01.519
an explan from an orthodox standpoint?
Well, we all know, we all

624
00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:07.199
know it's not athanaceous, right,
but if you watch the Ubie debate with

625
00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:14.480
Militant Tellmas that comes up. So
there's a very recent video. It kind

626
00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:17.000
of came up on my like home
screen on YouTube, and I just kind

627
00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:21.440
of clicked it for whatever, and
it seemed to be gaming popularity in a

628
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:24.360
very short amount of time, because
there's basically this guy, this Catholic dude,

629
00:56:25.159 --> 00:56:30.800
heat dove into that at like an
hour length of time, and he

630
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:36.400
walked through exactly even mentioning and citing, you know, the totality of ubies,

631
00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:38.920
you know, lip service. He
paid to the argument, and he

632
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:49.599
made kind of a like hermetically sealed, I mean perceptibly hermetically sealed argument that

633
00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:57.119
it is referring to hyposthetic origin instead
of economic procession. And I just want

634
00:56:57.119 --> 00:57:01.840
to know, like, is there
anything out there beyond Hubie's thing, because

635
00:57:01.880 --> 00:57:07.280
he also goes into how, you
know, once that's affirm, then you've

636
00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:13.480
got a whole plethora of Saints both
East and West, who not not East

637
00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:22.159
but Western Saints pre schism, So
Eastern Venerated Saints like affirming it and basically

638
00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:29.920
hold on affirming affirming what Wholloa affirming
the ath nation creed. Yes, how

639
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:34.920
could early venerated Latin Church fathers affirmed
the ath Nation creed. If the Athnation

640
00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:40.199
Creed is a late product old pre
schism, not not early early, but

641
00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:45.880
at least pre schism, you mean, so hold on, when do you

642
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:52.239
think the at the Nation Creed is
dated? I don't know what he was

643
00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:55.079
saying. I'm not too familiar,
but was it like mid fourth century or

644
00:57:55.119 --> 00:58:02.480
something or five? Yeah? Okay, so we know it's not from Athanasius,

645
00:58:02.599 --> 00:58:09.079
right, right, So you're talking
you're not talking about like Cyprian.

646
00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:15.199
You're talking about like post fifth sixth
century Western people. Yes, but there's

647
00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:22.840
still Orthodox scenes right like right,
So so if you it's it's not really

648
00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:28.719
any different than the supposed letter to
Marinus where Maximus a confessor right in the

649
00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:34.840
seventh century is saying that the Latins
could just be simply speaking of the economics

650
00:58:34.880 --> 00:58:46.800
sending do you understand hello, sorry, yeah, I mean that's kind of

651
00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:51.000
how I square it, Okay,
but do you understand that none of that

652
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:58.000
really matters given the fact that this
isn't really a solidified until Lions and then

653
00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:00.920
the Palamite Council's influence. So so
all of this early stuff, I'm not

654
00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:06.079
saying it's not relevant. I'm just
saying that the two the East and West,

655
00:59:06.159 --> 00:59:13.920
don't explicate exactly what their positions are
until Lions, Byzantine, Palamite Synods

656
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:16.440
and Florence. Do you understand that? Yeah, Okay, so we can't

657
00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:24.039
we can't go to prior assumptions of
like, well, maybe they're saying this

658
00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:27.559
and the other side, well maybe
the other side saying this, right,

659
00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:35.239
because it's not made clear who's saying
what officially dogmatically until Lions in twelve seventy

660
00:59:35.239 --> 00:59:38.880
four, the Palomite Synod responses,
and then Florence. That's when everything is

661
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:44.920
made explicitly clear from a dogmatic perspective. So I'm happy. I have no

662
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:49.920
problem saying that. Yeah, it's
fine to grant all the Latin writers the

663
00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:55.119
benefit of the doubt up until Lions
and Florence. Okay, yeah, I

664
00:59:55.159 --> 01:00:00.719
think what you would probably say is
a Okay, let's say that it wasn't

665
01:00:00.760 --> 01:00:06.119
dogmatic, but if they really hold
on what it wasn't dogmatic, the philioqua

666
01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:16.719
or the athonation creed God they Okay, so even if they were like unknowingly

667
01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:23.960
philioquists or whatever, just be based
on not like not having a church wide

668
01:00:23.960 --> 01:00:35.440
explication yet right the way we currently
explicated as this extremely evil doctrine, you

669
01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:39.519
you'd still expect for them to not
have such a No. No, that's

670
01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:45.639
that's because it's not clear until lions
in Florence and palamite synods. Okay,

671
01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:51.840
all right, all right, So
in other words, there's a this is

672
01:00:51.840 --> 01:00:55.599
a centuries long conversation about this topic, right. Uh. And by the

673
01:00:55.639 --> 01:00:59.559
way, yeah, there are like
have you read the Soshinsky book. It's

674
01:00:59.559 --> 01:01:01.719
really good on this stuff. Have
you read it? I haven't. No,

675
01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:06.199
it's actually heavily cited in the video, but yeah, I gotta read

676
01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:09.079
the totality of it. Yeah,
I recommend that book. We did a

677
01:01:09.079 --> 01:01:13.480
whole three hour podcast on the book, I think three years ago. So

678
01:01:13.559 --> 01:01:19.400
basically, you know, you have
to understand the whole conversation that's going on

679
01:01:19.719 --> 01:01:24.679
from the time of basically third and
fourth centuries all the way up to again

680
01:01:24.920 --> 01:01:30.400
the real crux. Everything hinges on, not even not even Saint Photius's day

681
01:01:30.400 --> 01:01:38.519
in the mistagogy, It all hinges
on this, which is another book I

682
01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:43.679
would recommend to get in addition to
the phili Equi book, it's Papadacus's book

683
01:01:43.719 --> 01:01:50.400
Crisis and Byzantium, because this book
is about the Palomite Synod's response to the

684
01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:55.440
first Roman Catholic dogmatic pronunciation at Lions. So the Council of Lions is twelve

685
01:01:55.519 --> 01:02:02.679
seventy four, right. So that's
why I remember for Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism,

686
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:06.440
these are two churches that believe in
dogma. In other words, they

687
01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:12.880
believe in authoritative pronouncements that kind of
like settle the issue for the respective communions,

688
01:02:12.960 --> 01:02:19.280
right, so you can't really settle
the issue. That's what a lot

689
01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:22.960
of Roman Catholics do is like they'll
just try to cite Cyril of Alexandria or

690
01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:30.039
Maximus or Ambrose because there's times where
they speak in ways that might be interpreted

691
01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:36.440
as a filioquist statement. Right.
Likewise, those same fathers have other statements

692
01:02:36.519 --> 01:02:42.400
that seem to exclude the possibility of
philioqua, especially Capadocians. So this is

693
01:02:42.400 --> 01:02:47.119
a this is a topic that's that's
like in conversation for centuries and it doesn't

694
01:02:47.199 --> 01:02:52.800
really get solidified, not even in
the time of when Saint Photius writes Mystagogy,

695
01:02:53.360 --> 01:02:58.800
because Mystagogy is like the first kind
of like clear Eastern statement, Like

696
01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:04.039
this is we conceive of the triad
to be without any flexibility, like there's

697
01:03:04.079 --> 01:03:08.760
no flexibility on you know what I'm
writing here in the mystagogy. But the

698
01:03:08.880 --> 01:03:15.440
but the issue isn't settled by that
time. It's not settled until Rome dogmatizes

699
01:03:15.519 --> 01:03:22.800
the double eternal hypostatic procession at Lions, which is a quote from Augustine on

700
01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:29.440
the Trinity. Right. Then the
Orthodox Church responds with the Palomite Synods,

701
01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:37.519
which define for the Orthodox Church the
intraterrinitarian relations right in the Tomos against John

702
01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:43.679
Becos and other documents. Right.
So then Rome responds again with Florence,

703
01:03:43.880 --> 01:03:47.039
which is a restatement of Lions and
Augustine. And it's there it's made very

704
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:52.920
clear that it's a double eternal hyposote
procession. So yeah, I think I

705
01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:58.519
don't have any problem with flexibility about
things like the athination, Creed or whatever,

706
01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:02.559
because ultimately it doesn't none of that
hinges on. Like church fathers can

707
01:04:02.599 --> 01:04:05.599
be wrong, and they can there
can be centuries where something's unclear, that

708
01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:15.119
can it can be debated and then
not made definitive until centuries later. Yeah,

709
01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:18.440
I mean, I agree, I
just I appreciate that Amil and whatnot,

710
01:04:19.440 --> 01:04:25.280
Like it's I've taken my own plants
at the fruits of the schism,

711
01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:30.119
and so I get it, like
the Abrahamic Faith Center, Right, I'm

712
01:04:30.199 --> 01:04:31.840
solid. You know, I'm not
worried or anyth Yeah, yeah, I

713
01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:35.280
know that's going to be brought up
in the future. So well, like

714
01:04:35.679 --> 01:04:42.079
what what I'm saying is this.
A lot of times drumming Catholics and even

715
01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:46.800
Orthodox they'll like they'll cite something from
like Maximus or from the Letter to Like.

716
01:04:46.880 --> 01:04:49.840
They'll they'll say, look, the
Letter to Marina says, why don't

717
01:04:49.880 --> 01:04:54.880
we just grant that the Western Church
means things in the same sense we do,

718
01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:58.159
Therefore there's no problem with Philly oquay
and why can't we all just get

719
01:04:58.159 --> 01:05:01.440
along. That's a common argument that
they is right. That's a really low

720
01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:06.880
tier argument because it's ignoring the fact
that there's centuries of discussion and debate and

721
01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:15.199
defined dogma after the Letter to Marinus. So you can't go back, you

722
01:05:15.239 --> 01:05:18.079
can't go back to something in like
the fourth century or fifth century or sixth

723
01:05:18.079 --> 01:05:21.000
century and say, well, here's
somebody saying it's not an issue, So

724
01:05:21.039 --> 01:05:26.760
why don't we just have an Because
you're ignoring the next several centuries of dogmatization.

725
01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:30.280
Does that make sense? But people
love to do this because they just

726
01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:34.840
don't know the whole the issue in
terms of its total scope. That's why

727
01:05:34.880 --> 01:05:39.519
you can go you can go to
the Vatican clarification on the Philly Oakway.

728
01:05:39.599 --> 01:05:45.559
It admits that there's still there's still
tension between the Palamite view and what lines

729
01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:49.320
in Florence say, particularly on this
very issue of double eternal hypsite procession.

730
01:05:49.519 --> 01:05:57.719
So even Rome admits that it's still
different. Do you understand ye? All

731
01:05:57.800 --> 01:06:00.000
right? Thanks, yeah, good
questions. Yeah, get those two book,

732
01:06:00.119 --> 01:06:04.519
they're really good. All Right,
welcome guys, it's open for him.

733
01:06:04.599 --> 01:06:12.519
Next up, our buddy, Sean. What's up Sean? What's up?

734
01:06:12.559 --> 01:06:15.679
Sean? Okay, hey man,
listen. I just wanted to quickly

735
01:06:15.719 --> 01:06:18.800
praise you. Thank you for everything
you do. Thank you for all the

736
01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:24.159
research you do. Thank you for
the fourth Hour on Lord Boldemort's uh you

737
01:06:24.159 --> 01:06:28.880
know show, amazing, amazing work. Thank you. Currently, I'm worshiping

738
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:31.960
at an independent Baptist church. Don't
hate me for that. I'm Orthodox at

739
01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:34.920
heart. I appreciate you know.
I've read the Church Fathers thanks to you,

740
01:06:35.280 --> 01:06:40.440
read the Orthodox Study. Bible.
Thanks you really brought out you know,

741
01:06:41.239 --> 01:06:45.519
it really opened my eyes to a
lot of stuff, my hesitancy,

742
01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:47.599
you know, and maybe because you
know, I started off as a libertarian,

743
01:06:47.639 --> 01:06:54.000
big ron Paul Rand Paul supporter and
stuff. I the Orthodox churches around

744
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:57.280
me, and you know, maybe
you're dealing with this too. I know

745
01:06:57.320 --> 01:07:01.320
I've heard you talk about it,
the Cumans in the Orthodox churches, you

746
01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:05.400
know, especially around me before you
know, I'm currently worshiping where I am,

747
01:07:05.400 --> 01:07:11.519
and I've been hesitant to move over
because the churches around me were big

748
01:07:11.519 --> 01:07:15.639
promoters of lockdowns, big promoters of
stabbies. You know, there was even

749
01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:19.639
members of the clergy questioning people's salvation
if they didn't get the stabbies. So

750
01:07:19.719 --> 01:07:27.239
I guess my question is, how
do you deal with in your heart those

751
01:07:27.360 --> 01:07:30.800
issues? And I realized that,
you know, even back in John's time

752
01:07:30.840 --> 01:07:33.320
there was issues with all you know, the seven churches that he was writing

753
01:07:33.400 --> 01:07:39.079
too. But how do we get
over there? You know, that's the

754
01:07:39.119 --> 01:07:41.400
big thing that's kind of kept me. It's like, okay, if you're

755
01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:45.719
gonna question my salvation because you're totally, in my opinion, corrupted. You

756
01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:49.400
know, for me, God always
gives us free will, and we have,

757
01:07:49.639 --> 01:07:53.239
you know, free will to accept
Christ. We have the free will

758
01:07:53.280 --> 01:07:57.159
to you know, reject him.
But I really believe that it's the evil

759
01:07:57.239 --> 01:08:01.880
one that tries to push something and
not give you a choice, you know,

760
01:08:01.960 --> 01:08:05.679
And that's that's the thing is,
like, how do you get over

761
01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:10.920
that in your own heart? Has
the church been corrupted? Have some of

762
01:08:10.920 --> 01:08:14.440
them been corrupted? You know,
what about you know, the reunification in

763
01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:16.680
twenty twenty five. You know,
I'm I'm not trying to debate. These

764
01:08:16.680 --> 01:08:20.720
are really just questions that have kept
me and I don't know if they just

765
01:08:20.920 --> 01:08:24.159
you know, I need to work
over in my own heart to get the

766
01:08:24.239 --> 01:08:27.920
right answer. In my heart,
I'm definitely definitely Orthodox. You know,

767
01:08:27.960 --> 01:08:30.199
I disagree with my pastor about a
lot of stuff. I stay there because

768
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:33.399
I see that they you know,
bear a lot of good fruit. They

769
01:08:33.479 --> 01:08:36.239
do a lot of good stuff in
the community. You know, my family

770
01:08:36.279 --> 01:08:39.800
has a good time there. You
know. I hope in my own heart

771
01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:43.399
that that's not a form of idolatry, you know, just because I like

772
01:08:43.520 --> 01:08:46.399
those people and I see that they
do good work. But that the especially

773
01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:50.319
the Orthodox Church is around me,
I would say, are totally a humanist,

774
01:08:50.359 --> 01:08:54.359
you know, totally liberal, totally
corrupt. And I have a hard

775
01:08:54.359 --> 01:08:58.760
time, you know, just justifying
that in my own mind and my own

776
01:08:58.760 --> 01:09:00.279
heart. How how did you do
it? Or you know, what are

777
01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:04.880
you dealing with or are you dealing
with those things now? Well, thankfully

778
01:09:04.880 --> 01:09:10.479
I don't personally to deal with it, because I'm not trying to be arrogant

779
01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:14.239
or bragging or whatever. But I
mean I knew, I knew ten years

780
01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:16.640
ago a lot of what was gonna
be coming. I mean not literally like

781
01:09:16.680 --> 01:09:19.399
every event, but yeah, but
I knew about I mean, one thing

782
01:09:19.439 --> 01:09:23.119
I didn't convert, one reason I
didn't convert in two thousand and seven was

783
01:09:23.159 --> 01:09:26.880
the very issues you're talking about.
So for me, it was kind of

784
01:09:26.920 --> 01:09:31.920
like a long process of trying to
find and locate solid Orthodox churches. And

785
01:09:31.960 --> 01:09:35.199
that's I mean, it's unfortunate that
we're in that kind of a situation.

786
01:09:35.319 --> 01:09:42.640
But the reality is that every group, whether you're like Protestant, Roman,

787
01:09:42.680 --> 01:09:46.359
Caloic, Orthodox, everybody's got problems. At the same time as the fact

788
01:09:46.439 --> 01:09:50.479
that everybody has some of the common
problems, each of these groups has kind

789
01:09:50.520 --> 01:09:55.760
of their own set of problems.
So like in the Roman Caloic Church.

790
01:09:55.960 --> 01:10:00.279
There, they have their own set
of unique problems. Orthodoxy has its set

791
01:10:00.279 --> 01:10:04.800
of unique problems, and one of
those for Orthodox people is finding because because

792
01:10:04.840 --> 01:10:08.840
it's decentralized. I think a lot
of times in Rome, for example,

793
01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:13.760
people think, well, I will
leave Protestantism and become Roman Calolic because it

794
01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:20.560
will solve the problems of radical decentralization
that my Protestant church has because they have

795
01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:26.039
such a centralized structure. And then
when you go to Rome after your honeymoon

796
01:10:26.079 --> 01:10:30.479
wears off, which it's funny because
Frank Frank really wears people's honeymoons off quicker

797
01:10:30.520 --> 01:10:35.199
than the honeymoons were worn off during
Benedict, but so so that you know

798
01:10:35.319 --> 01:10:39.760
now you're you quickly realize, oh
crap, there's like big issues in Rome.

799
01:10:40.840 --> 01:10:45.520
So the first thing I would say
is don't convert because you think automatically

800
01:10:45.520 --> 01:10:47.640
the grass will be greener. I
know that you're not saying you want to

801
01:10:47.680 --> 01:10:53.720
convert just because you think the grass
is greener. I think that God has

802
01:10:53.800 --> 01:10:56.840
kind of put us in a situation
where it's like if wen't really want to

803
01:10:56.840 --> 01:11:00.439
be Orthodox, if we want to
convert, like it's like these kinds of

804
01:11:00.479 --> 01:11:06.000
things in church history they really separate
week from chaff, so on the one

805
01:11:06.079 --> 01:11:10.680
on the one hand, on the
one hand, it used to really bug

806
01:11:10.720 --> 01:11:12.880
me, like back in two thousand
and seven when I was first looking into

807
01:11:12.920 --> 01:11:15.720
orthodox cy, and I saw a
lot of these problems and I didn't I

808
01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:16.800
wasn't ready to convert. Even I
went, I went through the whole kind

809
01:11:16.840 --> 01:11:19.199
of cumen in two thousand and seven, and I was right up to the

810
01:11:19.199 --> 01:11:23.680
point of converting. I decided not
to because I was bothered by all the

811
01:11:23.680 --> 01:11:25.960
issues you're talking about, and I
felt like, you know, I'm just

812
01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:29.920
I'm not ready to jump into this
because I might just be in another,

813
01:11:30.199 --> 01:11:34.920
you know, inexplicable, insoluble situation. And I also had a lot of

814
01:11:35.840 --> 01:11:42.439
baggage, like protest evangelical bagge,
or excuse me, a Tomistic baggage that

815
01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:45.640
I wasn't ready to shed, Like
my mind was so locked into thinking in

816
01:11:45.720 --> 01:11:49.399
terms of Tomism that I couldn't I
just couldn't fathom a lot of the orthdox

817
01:11:49.439 --> 01:11:53.319
stuff. And also there was a
lot there were a lot fewer Orthodox resources

818
01:11:53.359 --> 01:11:56.560
in two thousand and seven, so
it was harder to find like I wouldn't

819
01:11:56.560 --> 01:11:58.680
have found a book like this.
I mean, I don't know if any

820
01:11:59.000 --> 01:12:01.119
if it was out then, but
yeah, no, that's why I'm grateful

821
01:12:01.119 --> 01:12:05.600
to you because you know, like
I I've always kind of been you know,

822
01:12:05.640 --> 01:12:11.119
that libertarian attitude, you know.
But like I said, I'm I'm

823
01:12:11.119 --> 01:12:15.319
worshiping right now with my family and
an independent Baptist just because I see so

824
01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:19.800
many of the hierarchies of so many
of the churches being totally corrupted. You

825
01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:23.720
know. Well, let's put it
this way. Sure, yeah that does

826
01:12:23.880 --> 01:12:27.439
exist, but look it's not all
that way. So I mean, the

827
01:12:27.600 --> 01:12:32.880
least the least locked down were realcorp
and then uh Serbs, Romanians, all

828
01:12:32.880 --> 01:12:38.399
those people were in that camp.
To be fair, there were plenty of

829
01:12:38.439 --> 01:12:43.760
good OCA and Antiochian churches that didn't
lock down. Worst. I'm sure we're

830
01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:47.399
probably the Greeks so so. And
that's not even just a lot of them

831
01:12:47.439 --> 01:12:50.319
around the board were still pushing the
stabbies though, you know what I mean,

832
01:12:50.479 --> 01:12:55.960
Like that that kind of cut right
down. Well, look almost here's

833
01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:59.640
what you're gonna have to do,
which you may have to find a church

834
01:12:59.720 --> 01:13:03.199
that one to two hours away.
So yeah, that's what that's what I

835
01:13:03.199 --> 01:13:08.199
had to do. That's the heartbreaking
thing. Unfortunately, it's not gonna be

836
01:13:08.239 --> 01:13:11.840
heartbreaking because if you do that,
it's going to be better for you in

837
01:13:11.880 --> 01:13:15.079
the long run. Okay, cool, Hey man, Hey, look again,

838
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:17.319
I just wanted to praise you.
I really appreciate all the work you

839
01:13:17.359 --> 01:13:20.920
do. Thank you for kind of
transforming my heart and kind of edifying my

840
01:13:21.039 --> 01:13:25.079
faith. So thank you again,
brother, Absolutely, thank you. Yeah,

841
01:13:25.119 --> 01:13:27.199
a lot of people are Look,
you got to be patient with people.

842
01:13:27.279 --> 01:13:30.960
So a lot of people. We
have to be fair to people because

843
01:13:32.960 --> 01:13:36.000
not all, not all ROCORPS was
big into that. That's not true.

844
01:13:36.119 --> 01:13:40.279
It really just depends on where you
are and who who the person is.

845
01:13:40.399 --> 01:13:44.279
I mean, there's no jurisdictions across
the board that like, I'm not talking

846
01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:46.279
to you, Sean, I'm putting
people in the chat who are asking questions.

847
01:13:46.920 --> 01:13:51.920
I'm just saying that there was a
study they did afterwards and Rocorps was

848
01:13:51.960 --> 01:13:57.680
the least locked down. Doesn't mean
that there weren't people in ro Corps that

849
01:13:57.760 --> 01:14:02.159
were There was nobody locking down or
pushing this stuff. There was, Yeah,

850
01:14:02.199 --> 01:14:04.720
And I guess we just have to
have faith that, you know,

851
01:14:04.760 --> 01:14:09.119
the gates of Hell will not prevail
in the ends. So well, look,

852
01:14:10.239 --> 01:14:15.880
the church can have really bad situations
like the Aryan crisis where literally almost

853
01:14:15.960 --> 01:14:20.000
all of the bishops were Aryan or
semi Aryan. Okay they all and there

854
01:14:20.039 --> 01:14:26.359
was only a handful with Athanaceous that
were correct. Right, So so there

855
01:14:26.359 --> 01:14:30.359
you go. So thankfully we're not
even in that bad of a situation because

856
01:14:30.359 --> 01:14:33.079
I think there's far more than just
a handful that we're correct, right.

857
01:14:33.439 --> 01:14:36.079
Yeah, well, I guess we'll
find on a couple of months. Right.

858
01:14:36.279 --> 01:14:42.079
So unfortunately, what do you mean
just you know, everything coming out

859
01:14:42.199 --> 01:14:45.399
new lockdowns all if they do.
Yeah, well I think thank god,

860
01:14:45.680 --> 01:14:48.239
a lot of people have seen through
it and they won't be attempted with that.

861
01:14:48.359 --> 01:14:53.359
Thank you, by the way,
Sean. So look, long story

862
01:14:53.359 --> 01:14:58.000
short, you're gonna have to put
in a little effort, unfortunately and find

863
01:14:58.159 --> 01:15:01.199
a good Orthodox church. Not all
or our churches are equal. Sorry,

864
01:15:01.720 --> 01:15:06.840
And you know, again, I've
been here for years. I did podcasts

865
01:15:08.479 --> 01:15:12.439
five six years ago talking about the
EP, talking about the future post for

866
01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:16.159
union with Rome, and here we
are vindicating everything I said, so clearly,

867
01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:18.760
I at least to some degree,
you know what I'm talking about.

868
01:15:19.239 --> 01:15:23.920
If I was correct about what I
said five six years ago about all this

869
01:15:23.960 --> 01:15:29.560
stuff. But look, we can't
automatically expect people to understand all of these

870
01:15:29.560 --> 01:15:34.680
topics and know that, like,
because if you're if you're new to Orthodoxy

871
01:15:34.720 --> 01:15:38.319
and you just start looking at this, you're not going to know the history

872
01:15:38.359 --> 01:15:43.239
of the EP, You're not gonna
know anything about So you're not gonna know

873
01:15:43.239 --> 01:15:47.920
anything about you know, Martholom,
you and this kind of stuff. And

874
01:15:48.399 --> 01:15:53.000
we can't expect people to figure all
this stuff out right away, and we

875
01:15:53.119 --> 01:15:56.840
have to be we have to admit, yeah, like there's some serious issues

876
01:15:58.520 --> 01:16:02.079
in the Orthodox world, and it's
not everybody's fault that they don't know these

877
01:16:02.079 --> 01:16:04.359
things or can't figure these things out. So we had to be patient with

878
01:16:04.399 --> 01:16:08.920
people. It took me ten years
to become Orthodox. So from two thousand

879
01:16:08.960 --> 01:16:12.600
and seven looking at the problems with
the EP and all that stuff other issues,

880
01:16:13.119 --> 01:16:16.800
I was like, I'm not convinced
to this. It took me all

881
01:16:16.840 --> 01:16:23.239
the way up until twenty sixteen to
find a good church and to make my

882
01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:26.960
mind up to come back in.
But look, here here's me. This

883
01:16:27.000 --> 01:16:33.520
is actually five years ago covering this. Here's one and then I did another

884
01:16:33.560 --> 01:16:41.920
one Spooky Subversion, And now there's
another one, this one. And look

885
01:16:41.920 --> 01:16:51.800
everything I said, everything else said
was right. So you can go watch

886
01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:56.000
those if you want more information on
that, and that helps explain what happened

887
01:16:56.039 --> 01:16:59.199
in the last three years, you
see. So look I was saying what

888
01:16:59.239 --> 01:17:10.199
would happen and what the problem was
back in these videos from it says four

889
01:17:10.279 --> 01:17:15.359
years is actually five years ago September, so it's one month away from being

890
01:17:15.359 --> 01:17:24.520
five years ago. And I talked
about all of this stuff and was what

891
01:17:24.560 --> 01:17:27.720
was going down, and how it
was a push for the reunion with Rome

892
01:17:27.760 --> 01:17:30.800
in twenty twenty five. I don't
know if I said the exact date,

893
01:17:30.840 --> 01:17:33.079
but I said future reunion with Rome. Now, look, this was pretty

894
01:17:33.079 --> 01:17:40.000
couth, right. Then in the
coup, everybody got scared. All these

895
01:17:40.000 --> 01:17:48.039
people defaulted to medical experts and shut
down all the churches, scared of lawsuits,

896
01:17:48.039 --> 01:17:55.840
blah blah blah. Some of them
probably got government money to shut down.

897
01:17:57.920 --> 01:18:02.840
And then when laity and clerics reacted
against this, many of the OCA

898
01:18:02.880 --> 01:18:06.600
bishops, many of the Greek bishops, many of these people fussed and we're

899
01:18:06.640 --> 01:18:12.800
mad that people were leaving their churches
for non stabby lockdown churches. And what

900
01:18:12.800 --> 01:18:15.800
did they do do they blame themselves. They blamed me and other people,

901
01:18:15.840 --> 01:18:19.239
so it's my fault. No,
no, it's not my fault. It's

902
01:18:20.439 --> 01:18:25.119
the other way around. So,
but none of those people want to take

903
01:18:25.159 --> 01:18:29.399
responsibility and they don't. Actually a
lot of these people don't. They don't

904
01:18:29.399 --> 01:18:32.520
actually govern the church. They just
kind of sit back and act like administrators.

905
01:18:32.560 --> 01:18:38.960
And they've taken money and allow their
attack dogs to run wild, attacking

906
01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:44.560
me and other people online like the
recent attack on Father just Side, trent

907
01:18:44.640 --> 01:18:47.079
On, etc. So they're not
in the freight. They don't do anything.

908
01:18:48.199 --> 01:18:50.439
They just sit back and take money. And so, yeah, there

909
01:18:50.439 --> 01:18:54.479
are a lot of these people are
corrupt. And guess what, that's just

910
01:18:54.560 --> 01:18:57.560
part of any human institution. Now, the Church is not a purely human

911
01:18:57.600 --> 01:19:01.039
institution. It also has a divine
component. But the human component of this

912
01:19:01.079 --> 01:19:05.399
institution can absolutely be corrupted. And
that's one reason why I ended up being

913
01:19:05.520 --> 01:19:12.199
Orthodox and not ever going back to
Roman Catholicism, because Roman Catholicism hinges everything

914
01:19:12.359 --> 01:19:17.840
on one bishop. Obviously, so
if that bishop eventually becomes corrupt, which

915
01:19:17.880 --> 01:19:20.840
is supposedly not able to happen in
that system, right, I don't mean

916
01:19:20.880 --> 01:19:30.800
morally corrupt, I mean theologically corrupt, right, then it's not supposed to

917
01:19:30.840 --> 01:19:33.720
happen in the institution is protected by
the divine heroism and all this stuff.

918
01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:39.159
Well, I'm sorry, but Francis
and the post Vatican two people do not

919
01:19:39.279 --> 01:19:43.960
teach the same theology as the pre
Vatican two people in terms of the dogma

920
01:19:44.000 --> 01:19:47.760
and the encyclicals. So therefore that
system is not true. So does that

921
01:19:47.800 --> 01:19:51.760
make set of a concism true.
No, we've done any podcasts deblinking that.

922
01:19:54.640 --> 01:19:58.119
So really all you're left with is
if you want to be an ancient

923
01:19:58.199 --> 01:20:03.640
Christian orthodox, that's about it.
And I don't consider coptics stuff even viable.

924
01:20:03.680 --> 01:20:06.359
We've dealt with that a million times. You can go watch the videos

925
01:20:06.359 --> 01:20:13.640
on that, and then we've done
anyway, long story short, Yeah,

926
01:20:14.079 --> 01:20:17.039
let's move on. What's up Ac? By the way, we gotta set

927
01:20:17.119 --> 01:20:32.720
up a podcast. What's up?
AC? Just I'm mute, dude,

928
01:20:39.960 --> 01:20:46.520
you gotta I'm mute man right there? All right, come come out,

929
01:20:46.600 --> 01:20:49.279
come back in. We'll try you
JJ again. He came out, came

930
01:20:49.319 --> 01:20:57.560
back. What's up? I'm mute, dog? Hey, J How are

931
01:20:57.600 --> 01:21:02.239
you good? What's up? Hey? So I've been sort of inquiring into

932
01:21:02.319 --> 01:21:05.960
both, like Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
I wouldn't say for probably about a year.

933
01:21:06.039 --> 01:21:11.439
And forgive me, but I don't
really have like the fullest knowledge on

934
01:21:11.680 --> 01:21:15.000
most of the basic topics. But
it seems like everything keeps coming back to

935
01:21:15.079 --> 01:21:17.319
the philioquay. When I am watching
a lot of people's videos and stuff,

936
01:21:18.199 --> 01:21:24.000
I think I understand it kind of
place I can I'm curious a little bit

937
01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:32.159
more about can I say something consequences
of Western philioquist like approaches? Yeah,

938
01:21:32.199 --> 01:21:38.840
So it's not ultimately the philioquay.
The philokway rests on a prior idea of

939
01:21:38.880 --> 01:21:46.039
what divine simplicity is and must be. So phillyokway is a secondary result of

940
01:21:46.119 --> 01:21:50.880
a doctrine of divine simplicity which is
neo Platonic. So if you look at

941
01:21:51.199 --> 01:21:58.720
at Augustine's definition of simplicity, it's
identical to origins doctrine of simplicity from First

942
01:21:58.720 --> 01:22:02.840
Principles Book one, and it's basically
copied and pasted from Plotinus. So the

943
01:22:02.840 --> 01:22:10.359
problem is that if we cash out
divine simplicity and unity the way that Plotinus

944
01:22:10.399 --> 01:22:15.560
and Origin do, then we have
a problem with our triad, and that

945
01:22:15.680 --> 01:22:21.800
problem in Trinitarian theology is what Augustine
attempts to work out in the latter books

946
01:22:21.920 --> 01:22:28.319
of On the Trinity, and in
On the Trinity he denies the energy's doctrine.

947
01:22:28.920 --> 01:22:31.319
So divine simplicity is the root of
this. That's why some of the

948
01:22:31.359 --> 01:22:38.039
sections of Augustine's On the Trinity are
actually just copied and pasted versions and sections

949
01:22:38.079 --> 01:22:42.479
from Plotinus is and Needs literally I
forget which you needed. It is is

950
01:22:42.479 --> 01:22:48.119
either four or six, but one
of them is literally filioquism. And so

951
01:22:48.159 --> 01:22:53.920
the problem is that if you're trying
then to cash out a Trinitarian theology that's

952
01:22:53.960 --> 01:23:00.159
not the Cappadocean doctrine, it's already
off to it's on the wrong foot to

953
01:23:00.199 --> 01:23:03.760
begin with, it's starting off on
the wrong foot. And so it takes

954
01:23:03.760 --> 01:23:09.119
centuries for this to really be fleshed
out between East and West. And that's

955
01:23:09.119 --> 01:23:15.319
why it's not until Lions, Palamos
and Florence. So Lions twelve seventy four,

956
01:23:15.399 --> 01:23:21.079
Palamite synods in the thirteen hundreds,
Florence in fourteen whatever. Florence's data

957
01:23:21.119 --> 01:23:29.079
is, Council Florence is, I
forget fourteen whatever. So philioque is the

958
01:23:29.159 --> 01:23:38.479
doctrinal dogmatic statement of an underlying view
about simplicity. And that's why when Palamas

959
01:23:38.800 --> 01:23:44.039
is debating with Barlem and Ikandinos,
the debate isn't ultimately about Philioquay, it's

960
01:23:44.079 --> 01:23:49.520
about the energies, because it shifts
from hey, wait a minute, you're

961
01:23:49.520 --> 01:23:55.079
saying this and this and this about
philioqua, but what about these energies?

962
01:23:55.279 --> 01:24:00.880
So the Energy's doctrine is based on
a different doctrine of simplicity than what Augustine,

963
01:24:01.239 --> 01:24:08.640
Origin and Platinus have later on in
the Roman Catholic view. Their doctrine

964
01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:16.279
simplicity, which I would argue is
ultimately the like Thomas's and Augustine's and Lombard's

965
01:24:16.319 --> 01:24:26.920
doctrine of simplicity is ultimately the Platonic
doctrine, but it's defined in the Fourth

966
01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:30.880
Ladder and Synod as Lombard's doctrine.
And this is a great argument that doctor

967
01:24:30.920 --> 01:24:35.039
Bradshaw makes. So it's not ultimately
about what Thomas says, or what Aquinas

968
01:24:35.039 --> 01:24:40.279
says, or what Augustine says.
In the Roman Catholic system, we're supposed

969
01:24:40.319 --> 01:24:45.640
to go by the dogmas, and
Bradshaw has a great argument to just cut

970
01:24:45.640 --> 01:24:50.560
through all these different schools of Scodism
and this and that. None of that

971
01:24:50.680 --> 01:24:55.000
ultimately really matters, because at the
end of the day, the debate is

972
01:24:55.039 --> 01:25:01.760
about the Roman Catholic dogmatic position.
In the Romanic dogmatic position at the fourth

973
01:25:01.800 --> 01:25:08.319
line, and Council explicitly identifies it
as Lombard's identity thesis. They even site

974
01:25:08.399 --> 01:25:12.920
Lombard in the dogma in the Council, so it's identifying their simplicity doctrine as

975
01:25:12.960 --> 01:25:20.159
Lombardian. Then you later have post
Tridentine statements defining that grace is a supernatural

976
01:25:20.199 --> 01:25:26.119
creation, it's not uncreated. Some
about the grace in the soul. I

977
01:25:26.159 --> 01:25:30.840
know there's different categories of graces.
I'm well aware of that, but all

978
01:25:30.880 --> 01:25:34.159
you guys look at Ludwigatt. Luiggatt
says that supernatural grace is a created accident

979
01:25:34.159 --> 01:25:40.600
in the soul. So this is
an affirmation of the argument that Palamas was

980
01:25:40.600 --> 01:25:43.079
making all along, is that if
you end up, if you have this

981
01:25:43.119 --> 01:25:47.039
doctrine of simplicity, then you're going
to have a really hard problem identifying what

982
01:25:47.119 --> 01:25:53.479
we participate in in grace. And
that's exactly what happened. By the time

983
01:25:53.520 --> 01:25:59.800
of the post Tridentine statements. The
grace is defined as a supernatural creature,

984
01:26:00.199 --> 01:26:05.079
it's not uncreated energy. And the
response around the Catholic says, well,

985
01:26:05.119 --> 01:26:08.840
we can just have all these different
schools and different opinions, and no,

986
01:26:08.720 --> 01:26:14.760
no, no, you can't have
different opinions when it's already been solidified that

987
01:26:14.880 --> 01:26:19.279
the grace that Christ communicates to his
human nature is uncreated immortality. That's already

988
01:26:19.279 --> 01:26:26.359
stated in Cyril of Alexandria, in
John Damascus, in the Sixth Council,

989
01:26:27.920 --> 01:26:30.800
which defines the energies by the way, in Christology. So they just don't

990
01:26:30.800 --> 01:26:35.479
even understand that the energies that are
defined in Christology in the Sixth Council Allah

991
01:26:35.560 --> 01:26:40.119
John Damascus, Book three, section
fifteen, and from on, that's just

992
01:26:40.239 --> 01:26:45.720
applied to the sacraments into grace.
It's the same principle what Christ communicates as

993
01:26:45.720 --> 01:26:51.319
a divine hypostasis to his human nature
to deify it, the uncreated immortal energies.

994
01:26:53.479 --> 01:26:57.119
It's the same uncreated immortal energies that
we participate in in the sacraments,

995
01:26:57.159 --> 01:27:00.920
because it's his deified flesh. It's
the same flesh, as Cyril says.

996
01:27:00.920 --> 01:27:05.640
Cyril is the ultimate refutation of the
Roman callity doctrine because Roman Collis loved to

997
01:27:05.680 --> 01:27:10.119
say that we participate in body,
blood, soul, and divinity in the

998
01:27:10.119 --> 01:27:16.640
eucharius. Okay, what's the divinity
there? A supernatural creature, no uncreated

999
01:27:16.720 --> 01:27:23.479
grace and glory. It's not a
creature, it's uncreated. That's why the

1000
01:27:23.479 --> 01:27:29.840
debate with Palamas and Barlam andacan Dinos
ultimately turns to what do we participate in?

1001
01:27:32.800 --> 01:27:40.399
Go ahead, Okay, thank you. I really appreciate that. I'm

1002
01:27:40.439 --> 01:27:45.159
trying to break it down a little
bit more, just because it seems maybe

1003
01:27:45.199 --> 01:27:47.560
it's not everything that circles back to
it, right, but I just keep

1004
01:27:47.600 --> 01:27:50.840
hearing it reference and I think I
can understand, like you know, you

1005
01:27:50.960 --> 01:27:56.560
see like the layout of the differences
between the Catholics and the Orthodox in terms

1006
01:27:56.600 --> 01:27:59.840
of the trinity and the procession and
stuff. But I mean the ultimate,

1007
01:28:00.039 --> 01:28:03.119
the ultimate differ, the consequence is
a little bit more. The ultimate difference,

1008
01:28:03.640 --> 01:28:11.119
just in regard to that is whether
the son shares in the father's hypostatic

1009
01:28:11.239 --> 01:28:16.479
property at all and an Orthodox Cappadocian
trinitarian theology, which is what's accepted at

1010
01:28:17.399 --> 01:28:24.800
the Second Ecumenical Council, right,
which is all Cappadocian and Roman calogics are

1011
01:28:24.840 --> 01:28:29.439
like, where's the proof for this? This is like the fact that you're

1012
01:28:29.439 --> 01:28:32.600
asking me for the proof that the
Cappadocians dominated and that their theology is the

1013
01:28:32.680 --> 01:28:35.520
theology of the Second Council just shows
how much you guys don't know what you're

1014
01:28:35.520 --> 01:28:40.319
talking about. We'll be doing,
by the way, lectures with doctor bou

1015
01:28:40.359 --> 01:28:44.199
Branson on this. This is what
his PhD thesis is on, and go

1016
01:28:44.439 --> 01:28:48.960
watch all of doctor beau Branson's monarchical
Trinitarian lectures because that's where it comes from.

1017
01:28:49.680 --> 01:28:51.880
And it's a great argument the he
makes, which is just simply that

1018
01:28:53.000 --> 01:28:58.199
the Cappadocians are clear the Father is
the soul cause soul cause means that he's

1019
01:28:58.239 --> 01:29:01.720
not a co cause you don't particip
abate in his hypostatic property because it's what

1020
01:29:01.840 --> 01:29:04.800
picks out the father. So the
Roman callex have said, oh, well,

1021
01:29:04.840 --> 01:29:10.680
maybe the sun is a co cause
he the father's the principal cause.

1022
01:29:10.840 --> 01:29:15.359
But the sun is also a lesser
cause there's no lesser there's no gradations in

1023
01:29:15.399 --> 01:29:20.920
the trinity. Goofuses, well,
thank you, Jay, really, yes,

1024
01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:25.239
sir, thank you, good questions. I gotta go U Isaac.

1025
01:29:25.319 --> 01:29:27.960
What's update. I want to try
to squeeze in as med as we can.

1026
01:29:30.399 --> 01:29:33.239
Hey, how's it going good?
Yeah, So I'll just have some

1027
01:29:33.399 --> 01:29:39.640
questions regarding the apostle Paul. Okay, how is it that we know that

1028
01:29:39.760 --> 01:29:44.199
his letters were the infallible word of
God? And why are they canonizing the

1029
01:29:44.239 --> 01:29:48.800
scripture by the Catholic Catholic a narthodox
church, especially when it seems like there

1030
01:29:48.840 --> 01:29:55.479
might be some contradictions, especially this
idea of justification by faith alone, and

1031
01:29:55.680 --> 01:29:59.359
the Catholic Orthodox Church subscribe to that. I did. There is no salvation

1032
01:29:59.399 --> 01:30:03.760
outside the te well. First of
all, all of the scriptures, and

1033
01:30:04.039 --> 01:30:12.319
they're the reason we any of them, whether it's the Gospels, or whether

1034
01:30:12.359 --> 01:30:15.640
it's Paul's epistles, or whether it's
you know, Book of Revelation. The

1035
01:30:15.800 --> 01:30:20.600
reason they're in the canon ultimately is
by the authority of the Church, and

1036
01:30:20.880 --> 01:30:27.199
it's historical tradition and testimony. So
there's no such thing as bypassing that like

1037
01:30:27.319 --> 01:30:31.199
a Protestant or a Muslim to get
to the real Jesus or the real Paul.

1038
01:30:31.760 --> 01:30:34.199
There is no knowledge of the real
Jesus, of the real Paul,

1039
01:30:34.359 --> 01:30:40.319
apart from the oral tradition of the
Church. So you can't separate these things

1040
01:30:40.399 --> 01:30:44.680
because they inherently go together. They're
distinct. Written texts are different from the

1041
01:30:44.840 --> 01:30:47.359
oral tradition, the absolute succession,
the liturgy, but they all go together

1042
01:30:48.159 --> 01:30:54.640
and hang or fall together. So
the presupposition that I heard in your question

1043
01:30:55.000 --> 01:30:59.239
was as if you can, like
do higher critical scholarship and get to the

1044
01:30:59.560 --> 01:31:02.119
real Paul, or the Jesus quest, the real Jesus, or the real

1045
01:31:02.279 --> 01:31:10.560
Moses, the JEPD documentary hypothesis,
all of those bypass the historical attestation of

1046
01:31:10.720 --> 01:31:15.520
the Church, which bequeathed them as
a holistic thing. You see, you

1047
01:31:15.640 --> 01:31:19.600
can't pull them apart like all higher
critics attempt to do. So. The

1048
01:31:19.680 --> 01:31:24.840
second part of your thing was about
justification by faith alone. You're just assuming

1049
01:31:24.960 --> 01:31:30.399
that the Protestant idea of a nominalist
justification is what Paul meant, and we

1050
01:31:30.439 --> 01:31:33.640
don't think that. We think that
when Paul says justified, it's an actual

1051
01:31:33.720 --> 01:31:42.439
metaphysical change in the person. It's
not a purely legal description. So when

1052
01:31:42.479 --> 01:31:45.880
Paul says, if you confess with
them out that Jesus Lord and believe God

1053
01:31:46.000 --> 01:31:50.359
prism from the dead, and you
will be saved. How do you reconcile

1054
01:31:50.439 --> 01:31:56.560
that with the idea that you're just
assuming that that's a lowest common denominator's statement

1055
01:31:56.680 --> 01:31:59.960
that's scaled down and that's all that's
necessary. Because Paul says in plenty of

1056
01:32:00.119 --> 01:32:02.800
other places that, for example,
to Titus three, that the washing of

1057
01:32:02.840 --> 01:32:06.920
the labor regeneration is necessary. That's
baptism. So you're just assuming that one

1058
01:32:08.079 --> 01:32:12.079
phrase can be located and isolated,
as if Paul is saying that all all

1059
01:32:12.119 --> 01:32:15.159
you gotta do is say this sinner's
prayer or some nonsense. No, that's

1060
01:32:15.199 --> 01:32:19.439
a faulty hermoneutic. What you have
to do is take all of Paul's teachings,

1061
01:32:19.880 --> 01:32:24.760
all of the New Testament, all
of the Bible as a holistic text.

1062
01:32:25.600 --> 01:32:30.119
Do you see? Oh yeah,
I guess I sort of thing.

1063
01:32:31.199 --> 01:32:34.199
I grew up with those ideas,
right, you know, yeah, exactly

1064
01:32:34.239 --> 01:32:38.079
all you need to do is believe. But I'm just trying to get to

1065
01:32:38.159 --> 01:32:41.560
it. So those are presuppositions that
you have, and I'm saying that I

1066
01:32:41.640 --> 01:32:45.479
can already locate because I grew up
evangelical too. I can tell the error

1067
01:32:45.640 --> 01:32:49.479
is the assumption that I can isolate
one verse of Paul everything else has to

1068
01:32:49.560 --> 01:32:54.399
then squeeze into that verse. And
what That's what every heretic does, just

1069
01:32:54.479 --> 01:32:57.399
like every I'm not saying your heretic
in a mean way. I don't know

1070
01:32:57.479 --> 01:33:00.880
your views or where you're at,
But what I'm saying is that if you

1071
01:33:00.920 --> 01:33:05.760
think about Jobe's witnesses, Jesus says
the Father's greater, so therefore the trinity's

1072
01:33:05.800 --> 01:33:10.560
false, ignoring all the other verses
where he says that he's equal to the

1073
01:33:10.600 --> 01:33:14.359
Father. You see how you see
how that's a faulty hermonutic. Every heretic

1074
01:33:14.439 --> 01:33:18.960
does this hermonutic, right, So
I guess my question would be, how

1075
01:33:19.159 --> 01:33:26.239
is it that you're able to identify
the holistic meaning of the Bible without cherry

1076
01:33:26.279 --> 01:33:30.399
picking certain verses to kind of justify
specific because holistic reading is not this The

1077
01:33:30.479 --> 01:33:34.640
opposite of cherry picking. Cherry picking
is saying that this verse is the key

1078
01:33:34.800 --> 01:33:39.239
verse to all the other verses which
have to be squeezed into this holistic means

1079
01:33:39.319 --> 01:33:43.319
that they're all true, they all
have to be harmonized. That's the presupposition

1080
01:33:43.359 --> 01:33:46.760
of inspiration. That's why you're already
saying, maybe Paul contradicts. No,

1081
01:33:46.840 --> 01:33:50.640
No, it's just your misreading,
as well as the Protestant and Muslim misreading.

1082
01:33:54.760 --> 01:33:58.079
And then I just have one more
question, kind of unrelated, but

1083
01:33:58.199 --> 01:34:01.720
it's a verse I read that kind
of confused me Realatians where Paul says that

1084
01:34:03.079 --> 01:34:06.760
the law was a curse, but
Christ replaced it my becoming the curse.

1085
01:34:08.600 --> 01:34:12.199
I kind of hear, fister,
But well, curse another one that hangs

1086
01:34:12.199 --> 01:34:15.359
on a tree, and Jesus hung
on the tree of the cross. And

1087
01:34:15.520 --> 01:34:20.199
so the law isn't itself a curse. The law is what produces sin,

1088
01:34:21.119 --> 01:34:26.760
knowledge of guilt, right, etc. So the law is just an external

1089
01:34:27.520 --> 01:34:30.199
standard, and that could be the
moral law. It could be the totality

1090
01:34:30.199 --> 01:34:33.760
of the mosaic law and the moral
law altogether, all of that law.

1091
01:34:34.399 --> 01:34:40.399
All it does is set a standard
that we should live by. And even

1092
01:34:40.439 --> 01:34:43.079
if you just scale it down to
the Ten Commandments, which can be scaled

1093
01:34:43.119 --> 01:34:45.960
down to the two greatest Commandments,
that's all a standard. But hey,

1094
01:34:46.000 --> 01:34:53.119
wait a minute. I can't be
saved and given divine life by an external

1095
01:34:53.199 --> 01:34:59.399
written standard. I need an actual
ontological, metaphysical change in my being in

1096
01:34:59.600 --> 01:35:03.680
order to live according to that standard. So you see the difference there between

1097
01:35:03.720 --> 01:35:06.560
an external standard, a checklist of
things that you've got to do to be

1098
01:35:08.319 --> 01:35:12.199
perfect or to be right made right, which nobody can do. That's all

1099
01:35:12.560 --> 01:35:17.520
dead. Law. Dead works because
it doesn't give you the inner divine theosis

1100
01:35:17.680 --> 01:35:23.680
and power to live it. So
our view is that when Paul talks about

1101
01:35:23.680 --> 01:35:29.439
the righteousness of God and justification by
faith, that's the inner, actual power

1102
01:35:30.319 --> 01:35:34.119
of Theosis and uncreated energy in you. As Paul says, the inner gaia

1103
01:35:34.560 --> 01:35:39.560
of God is at work in me. He calls himself a co worker with

1104
01:35:39.680 --> 01:35:45.560
God. He says, the resurrected
power dunamis energy of God is working in

1105
01:35:45.680 --> 01:35:50.399
me. That's real power. That's
theosis. That's not a legal status change.

1106
01:35:54.840 --> 01:35:58.600
So I guess when Paul says that
Jews replaced the law, it's like

1107
01:35:58.840 --> 01:36:03.600
Jews becomes the principle that actually creates
the metaphysical change within us. What do

1108
01:36:03.640 --> 01:36:06.680
you mean they Jews replaced the law? What do you mean Jews or Jesus?

1109
01:36:08.880 --> 01:36:13.600
Jesus? Just because Paul says that
the law was the curse, but

1110
01:36:13.800 --> 01:36:16.640
Jesus became the curse, He's not
literally He's not saying that the law is

1111
01:36:16.760 --> 01:36:20.840
literally a curse because God gave Jesus
gave the law. Jesus is out at

1112
01:36:20.920 --> 01:36:25.279
Mount sign I giving the law.
That's why he says, is the law

1113
01:36:25.399 --> 01:36:28.920
therefore evil and romans? No,
it is good, but it has a

1114
01:36:29.000 --> 01:36:32.199
limited purpose. Okay, the ten
Commandments are good. Just forget all the

1115
01:36:32.760 --> 01:36:36.079
ceremonial stuff. Let's just talk about
the ten commandments. The ten Commandments are

1116
01:36:36.159 --> 01:36:41.199
good, but two stones. If
I come to your house and I say,

1117
01:36:41.199 --> 01:36:45.159
here you go, dude, here's
two stone tablets, you better live

1118
01:36:45.239 --> 01:36:47.720
perfectly. The stone tablets don't empower
you to do anything. All they do

1119
01:36:47.840 --> 01:36:50.840
is give you a knowledge of right
and wrong. But you're falling, and

1120
01:36:50.920 --> 01:36:59.680
so you don't have the ability the
power to live it. The theosis doctrine

1121
01:36:59.840 --> 01:37:02.760
is that you are then empowered to
live it, to love God and to

1122
01:37:02.840 --> 01:37:11.479
obey his commandments. So Jesus doesn't
replace the law in the sense of like

1123
01:37:11.720 --> 01:37:16.119
tossing everything out. He's the fulfillment
of the mosaic ceremonial things. Right.

1124
01:37:16.199 --> 01:37:21.199
That's why David says in Psalm fifty
or fifty one, depending upon whether your

1125
01:37:21.239 --> 01:37:27.039
Orthodox are Protestant, sacrifice and offering. You do not desire but a clean

1126
01:37:27.119 --> 01:37:34.199
heart, creating me a clean heart
So it's the inner transformation via Theosis that

1127
01:37:34.479 --> 01:37:39.880
empowers you to keep the law.
That's why James says that dead faith doesn't

1128
01:37:40.319 --> 01:37:44.920
do anything for you. That's why
even Paul says faith working through love.

1129
01:37:45.640 --> 01:37:47.359
That's the faith that Paul saw.
He says that to the Corinthians. So

1130
01:37:47.560 --> 01:37:53.640
that's the actual faith that Paul's talking
about. It's not a nominalistic mental faith

1131
01:37:53.840 --> 01:38:02.560
of accepting notions. Okay. So
basically what you're saying is like salvation comes

1132
01:38:02.640 --> 01:38:11.119
through theosis, which is basically becoming
God through Christ in a sense. Yeah,

1133
01:38:11.159 --> 01:38:14.880
I mean, if I'm going to
live like be like your heavenly Father,

1134
01:38:15.439 --> 01:38:16.760
well, how do I be like
him? Well? You keep the

1135
01:38:16.920 --> 01:38:19.600
law? Well I can't keep the
law because I'm falling. Okay, I'm

1136
01:38:19.640 --> 01:38:24.159
gonna give you the power inside of
you, the Holy Spirit to keep the

1137
01:38:24.239 --> 01:38:31.760
law. Right. And then there's
also a aspect of the forgiveness of sins

1138
01:38:31.800 --> 01:38:35.680
too, right, the idea that
Jesus died for our sins as a way

1139
01:38:35.760 --> 01:38:43.880
to kind of forgive them, you
know, literally, sure, I mean,

1140
01:38:45.159 --> 01:38:50.319
the death of Christ destroys the power
of sin in our human falling human

1141
01:38:50.399 --> 01:38:57.960
nature, and then the resurrected power
of Christ allows us to live according to

1142
01:38:58.159 --> 01:39:01.960
the Ten Commandments and not be in
too our fallen passions. Does that make

1143
01:39:02.000 --> 01:39:06.399
sense. I'm gonna have to move
We're gonna move on. I'll try to

1144
01:39:06.399 --> 01:39:10.439
be read. But you can call
back in the next time. Uh Vin

1145
01:39:10.600 --> 01:39:15.039
Love, what's up? Dude?
Those are good questions. By the way,

1146
01:39:15.039 --> 01:39:17.199
if you want to support the show
via super chat, okay, you

1147
01:39:17.279 --> 01:39:23.079
know, can I tell you something
as someone who has a very diverse religious

1148
01:39:23.119 --> 01:39:28.920
family, and that I have cousins
who are like traditional East Asian pagans okay,

1149
01:39:29.000 --> 01:39:31.760
and like a majority Buddhists. Okay, The Buddhists are some of the

1150
01:39:31.840 --> 01:39:36.520
most materialistic, pandalistic people I've met, even though the whole Buddhist thing is

1151
01:39:36.600 --> 01:39:44.199
to remove yourself from material desire because
desire is bad. Okay, but you

1152
01:39:44.279 --> 01:39:47.439
know, I'll tie into a friend
the Woody and Twitter, very very smart

1153
01:39:47.520 --> 01:39:53.960
man, good artists. The whole
Buddhist theology is not to take up the

1154
01:39:54.039 --> 01:39:59.399
cross and overcome it, but rather
to just simply bypass it, to cheat

1155
01:39:59.439 --> 01:40:02.520
code it. So the natural conclusion
of that which a lot of Japanese and

1156
01:40:02.760 --> 01:40:08.119
monks do is suicide, not a
fast one, because that would create desire

1157
01:40:08.239 --> 01:40:11.920
suffering, and that's the bad.
No, I mean the whole the whole

1158
01:40:11.960 --> 01:40:15.399
thing is the whole thing is demonic
because it's all about negating the self,

1159
01:40:15.520 --> 01:40:19.520
which is ridiculous. Yeah, like
they slowly pointing themself with woodlaced drinks,

1160
01:40:20.079 --> 01:40:30.119
slowly and slowly mollifying themselves inside.
Yeahs like Hayachism, which is of removing

1161
01:40:30.159 --> 01:40:32.199
of the self, not a filling
of the whole. Right, Yeah,

1162
01:40:32.359 --> 01:40:35.000
good questions gonna I'm gonna move on, just to get through some more people.

1163
01:40:35.000 --> 01:40:36.760
But yeah, I agree with that. A lot of the Far Eastern

1164
01:40:36.800 --> 01:40:40.960
religions, especially Budhist stuff, like
it's just ain't coherent at the end of

1165
01:40:40.960 --> 01:40:44.520
the day because it has this air
of mysticism and all this kind of like

1166
01:40:44.600 --> 01:40:46.279
transcending dualities and all that. But
at the end of the day, it's

1167
01:40:46.279 --> 01:40:51.239
just about self negation and destruction of
the individual, which is demonic. By

1168
01:40:51.279 --> 01:40:56.600
the way, there is the doctor
bou Branson talk on monarchical trinitarianism for those

1169
01:40:56.640 --> 01:41:01.119
that are interested in the philio Quay
all Constantinople one in three eighty one.

1170
01:41:01.239 --> 01:41:04.760
You can go watch that excellent talk
there. Next up is Mad Subs.

1171
01:41:04.840 --> 01:41:20.600
What's up, Mad subs go ahead, Hello, can I hear me?

1172
01:41:21.199 --> 01:41:26.119
Yep? Oh? Okay, great. So I'm sort of a new Christian

1173
01:41:26.199 --> 01:41:29.359
and I was a Protestant for a
while since I met some street preachers.

1174
01:41:29.479 --> 01:41:32.560
They told me the Gospel got baptized
all that. But I'm interested in Orthodoxy

1175
01:41:32.600 --> 01:41:36.880
and I'm just wondering how do you
evangelize people as an Orthodox Christian? Like,

1176
01:41:36.920 --> 01:41:41.479
how do you tell them to Gospel? It's pretty simple and Protestantism it

1177
01:41:41.600 --> 01:41:45.640
just tell them Jesus was accursed instead
of you. But how do you simply

1178
01:41:45.760 --> 01:41:49.000
explain the Gospel to someone as an
Orthodox Christian? How do you do that?

1179
01:41:49.159 --> 01:41:53.840
I also wanted to ask, do
you believe that an Orthodox Christian has

1180
01:41:53.880 --> 01:41:58.159
to become fully holy just like Jesus
to enter heaven, because it's still kind

1181
01:41:58.159 --> 01:42:00.079
of I don't believe we can become
fully holy in this life. So I

1182
01:42:00.119 --> 01:42:04.239
don't really understand if we can achieve
theosism this life. If you know what

1183
01:42:04.279 --> 01:42:08.239
I mean, Yes, we can
achieve theosys in this life. It is

1184
01:42:08.319 --> 01:42:13.279
possible. That doesn't mean necessarily that
you're going to be perfect. I think

1185
01:42:13.319 --> 01:42:16.920
we will all have some degree of
human attachment in this life. And so

1186
01:42:17.359 --> 01:42:23.239
Orthodoxy does have prayers for the dead. So when we die in this life,

1187
01:42:23.720 --> 01:42:27.840
the church praise for those who die
in the bosom of the church precisely

1188
01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:34.399
because we're not going to be perfect
so correct. But how do I tell

1189
01:42:34.479 --> 01:42:41.119
the Gospel. One way to do
it is, first of all, it's

1190
01:42:41.159 --> 01:42:46.560
not that you can't say pithy one
liners or something like that necessarily, right,

1191
01:42:46.720 --> 01:42:54.239
Like I could quote proverbs on Twitter, right, and there's nothing inherently

1192
01:42:54.279 --> 01:43:01.119
wrong with citing proverbs, but it's
just simply not true or accurate to act

1193
01:43:01.279 --> 01:43:08.399
as if I can boil the Gospel
down quote unquote to a kind of Romans

1194
01:43:08.520 --> 01:43:13.960
Road message of street preachers. Now
I'm not saying that you're not that you

1195
01:43:14.039 --> 01:43:16.920
don't believe, right, I know, not doubting your motives or saying that

1196
01:43:16.960 --> 01:43:21.079
you're a bad person, but it's
just simply not the Gospel. The Gospel

1197
01:43:21.239 --> 01:43:29.119
is not Romans Road. And there's
nothing about there's no there's nothing in scripture

1198
01:43:29.199 --> 01:43:35.159
that tells you that there's a lowest
common denominator string of texts that is the

1199
01:43:35.319 --> 01:43:40.840
essence of Paul or the essence of
the Gospel. It's a Protestant Baptist evangelical

1200
01:43:40.920 --> 01:43:45.880
assumption that there's only a few things
that are the necessary things. And one

1201
01:43:45.920 --> 01:43:50.520
reason we know that is what I
just said to the other guy when Paul

1202
01:43:50.640 --> 01:43:57.239
says, just believe and confess with
your mouth that Jesus Lord, that's not

1203
01:43:57.359 --> 01:44:00.720
all Paul said. The fact that
he said that I'm one verse. You

1204
01:44:00.800 --> 01:44:03.119
can't exclude that to all the other
verses where he talks about all the other

1205
01:44:03.199 --> 01:44:12.359
necessary things. And think how crazy
that hermonutic is. Every every heretic does

1206
01:44:12.399 --> 01:44:16.399
this hermonutic. Job's witness finds a
verse that says Jesus says that the Father

1207
01:44:16.560 --> 01:44:25.039
is greater, greater, how greater
in role, greater in being trinitarian cause,

1208
01:44:26.720 --> 01:44:29.880
or greater in ontological status, and
that means the Son is a creature.

1209
01:44:30.560 --> 01:44:32.479
See, greater can be meant in
different ways, in different senses.

1210
01:44:34.239 --> 01:44:39.199
The number one is greater in the
sense that it's first before the number two.

1211
01:44:39.680 --> 01:44:42.439
But does the number one have more
numberness than the number two? Of

1212
01:44:42.479 --> 01:44:45.479
course not? All right, this
is the kind of silly Let just go

1213
01:44:45.600 --> 01:44:50.399
to the Bryson Great debate. All
of Bryson's arguments are based on this dumb

1214
01:44:50.520 --> 01:44:56.640
hermoneutic that I can pick one verse
Matthew five, not one jot or title

1215
01:44:56.680 --> 01:45:00.159
will pass from the law, and
every other verse has to squeeze in that

1216
01:45:00.279 --> 01:45:06.800
verse. Anybody who becomes educated in
Bible college seminary, one of the first

1217
01:45:06.840 --> 01:45:12.800
things you're gonna learn in Hermonunics and
Exegesus class is that you don't do that.

1218
01:45:14.960 --> 01:45:18.560
Even Roman Catholic seminaries would teach you
that, right. Even Protestant seminaries

1219
01:45:18.600 --> 01:45:20.520
are gonna do, as bad as
they are, they're at least going to

1220
01:45:20.600 --> 01:45:25.239
teach you that. So we have
to deal with a lot of goobers and

1221
01:45:25.319 --> 01:45:29.239
people who have zeal without knowledge,
as Paul says, and they just run

1222
01:45:29.319 --> 01:45:30.720
to these verses. My Muslims do
the same thing, right, it's all

1223
01:45:30.760 --> 01:45:36.039
the same mistakes, and they're really
fundamental mistakes. But most heretics and most

1224
01:45:36.079 --> 01:45:41.960
Evangelicals and Protestants and people in these
other communions, most of the time what

1225
01:45:42.039 --> 01:45:45.520
they're doing is a really basic herman
You know what hermonutics is. That's in

1226
01:45:45.600 --> 01:45:50.159
science of interpretation. Exegesis is the
science of how we interpret a text.

1227
01:45:50.760 --> 01:45:55.640
We exeget the passage, what does
the Greek word mean here? And blah

1228
01:45:55.640 --> 01:46:02.600
blah blah. Hermoneutics is interpreting.
Exegesis explains for example, the Son is

1229
01:46:02.640 --> 01:46:06.000
the exegesis of the Father, John
says, and John one he explains the

1230
01:46:06.079 --> 01:46:11.840
Father to us, hermeneutics is a
science of interpretation. How do I know

1231
01:46:11.960 --> 01:46:15.640
I have the right science of interpretation
as a Protestant. Now, I used

1232
01:46:15.640 --> 01:46:18.600
to be a Protestant as being evangelical, so I can speak to this because

1233
01:46:18.640 --> 01:46:23.159
I made all these same mistakes,
especially when I was eighteen nineteen twenty twenty

1234
01:46:23.199 --> 01:46:29.560
one. Then I went and learn
things. You can't bypass learning things because

1235
01:46:29.640 --> 01:46:33.720
you think you're super spiritual, because
you think you're whatever chosen, blessed,

1236
01:46:33.840 --> 01:46:40.760
blah blah blah. And most Protestant
evangelicals kind of have that delusion that I'm

1237
01:46:40.800 --> 01:46:44.000
not knocking everybody who's Protestant evangelical.
We have a lot of friends and so

1238
01:46:44.199 --> 01:46:46.680
forth. I'm not saying you're bye
people. I'm just saying that there's common

1239
01:46:46.760 --> 01:46:50.960
mistakes that are made, and one
of those is the idea that this verse,

1240
01:46:51.119 --> 01:46:56.640
this verse, this verse, and
this verse are the clear verses.

1241
01:46:57.399 --> 01:47:01.640
All of the other verses have to
be squeezed into that, and it's very

1242
01:47:01.680 --> 01:47:04.479
difficult to be consistent with that.
That's why you heard that guy two people

1243
01:47:04.520 --> 01:47:11.000
back was like maybe Paul's contradicting.
Maybe Paul's the problem. No, no,

1244
01:47:11.079 --> 01:47:17.159
no, it's you and your Protestant
presupposition the idea that justification is a

1245
01:47:17.319 --> 01:47:23.479
purely nominal legal thing. Now,
how would I present the gospel? In

1246
01:47:23.600 --> 01:47:27.800
short? Well, I did a
video a couple of years ago. You

1247
01:47:27.880 --> 01:47:30.960
are in a cosmic battle, and
this video was intended to express that,

1248
01:47:32.439 --> 01:47:40.920
because the Gospel isn't limited to the
death of Christ and justification by faith along.

1249
01:47:40.920 --> 01:47:44.039
In fact, that's not the gospel. But every time a Protestant thinks

1250
01:47:44.119 --> 01:47:47.520
that he's defining the gospel, that's
what he means. None of the Gospel

1251
01:47:47.720 --> 01:47:57.119
is the cosmic scope of Christ,
restoring the cosmos, including us human beings

1252
01:47:57.319 --> 01:48:00.920
who are part of the cosmos,
and destroying the Angel of death Satan.

1253
01:48:00.279 --> 01:48:06.239
You'll notice that most Romans road so
called gospel stories and tracks or whatever.

1254
01:48:06.239 --> 01:48:11.760
They don't they leave out Satan.
Wait a minute, isn't the villain of

1255
01:48:11.880 --> 01:48:18.079
the story pretty important to the whole
story. What about baptism in the church,

1256
01:48:18.560 --> 01:48:24.800
Although those those are non necessities,
that's not a big deal. Why

1257
01:48:24.840 --> 01:48:28.359
does Peter say you have to repent
and be baptized. Why does Paul saying

1258
01:48:28.399 --> 01:48:31.560
tis three, that baptism is the
labor of regeneration. Always know what talking

1259
01:48:31.560 --> 01:48:36.199
about water baptism, always not.
But there's one baptism. Who there's two,

1260
01:48:36.279 --> 01:48:41.079
because there's a spiritual one and there's
a water one. That's two,

1261
01:48:41.720 --> 01:48:47.800
Paul says one. So you'll notice
the whole thing is hinging on the dividing

1262
01:48:47.960 --> 01:48:54.279
of the spiritual from the physical.
The spirit is divided from the actual sacramental

1263
01:48:54.399 --> 01:49:00.399
celebration. That's called sacramental Nestorianism.
And then Adestanism does the same thing with

1264
01:49:00.479 --> 01:49:06.720
the church. The true spiritual church
is divided from the visible body church invisible

1265
01:49:06.800 --> 01:49:13.399
church, visible church. That's called
ecclesiastical Nestorianism. And guess what, shocker,

1266
01:49:13.840 --> 01:49:23.079
most Protestants are Christallogical and mystorians as
well. Pereira, what's up,

1267
01:49:23.119 --> 01:49:40.359
Pereira? I'm mute, dog,
I'm mute, dude, Okay, come

1268
01:49:40.359 --> 01:49:44.920
on, mute, all right,
you came in late, dude, come

1269
01:49:44.960 --> 01:49:55.319
back the mitch. What's up?
Hey, I have a question about the

1270
01:49:55.439 --> 01:49:59.640
trendy. It's not my own question, okay, dialogues with Muslims and nature

1271
01:50:00.079 --> 01:50:03.079
craziness objections, So I just want
to see your opinion on it, Okay,

1272
01:50:04.119 --> 01:50:08.279
So you know, what transit.
I don't know. Obviously transitivity is

1273
01:50:08.359 --> 01:50:13.600
right, well, like the idea
that things are transversable, or that that

1274
01:50:14.039 --> 01:50:16.760
can be said about either thing,
like one thing can be said about different

1275
01:50:16.760 --> 01:50:24.359
things. Yeah, like like if
a something like that, if A equals

1276
01:50:24.439 --> 01:50:28.520
B and A equals see, then
be equals see. Right. So you're

1277
01:50:28.560 --> 01:50:32.239
demological problem to trinity, and it's
all based on county by identity. Yeah,

1278
01:50:32.399 --> 01:50:39.920
so we don't countydentity I want to
dialogue with like Muslims. So would

1279
01:50:40.119 --> 01:50:42.960
I just address it like thirty minutes
ago, We don't count by identity,

1280
01:50:44.199 --> 01:50:51.319
okay, thank you. Ye.
So the church Fathers and the ancient medieval

1281
01:50:51.439 --> 01:50:57.880
world count by division, not by
identity, and the whole logical problem to

1282
01:50:57.920 --> 01:51:03.199
trinity hinges on counting by identity.
So refer back to where I was talking

1283
01:51:03.239 --> 01:51:10.560
about abstract objects, objects of second
order in position. Those are often counted

1284
01:51:10.640 --> 01:51:17.039
by identity because you can't have like
a third of a a law of logic,

1285
01:51:17.520 --> 01:51:24.520
right, So abstract things you got
to count by identity. But typically

1286
01:51:24.600 --> 01:51:30.119
speaking, most objects we do not
count by identity but by division. And

1287
01:51:30.199 --> 01:51:33.439
this is why the Creed and the
Capadocians and others, and Maximus, they

1288
01:51:33.479 --> 01:51:41.319
talk about Christ being indivisible undivided.
That phrase from the Creed and so forth

1289
01:51:42.079 --> 01:51:45.239
is making this point that we don't
count by identity, especially not in the

1290
01:51:45.239 --> 01:51:50.840
ancient medieval world, unless they were
talking about objects of second order in position.

1291
01:51:53.880 --> 01:51:58.560
And it's very easy to show this
because again I'm gonna save this actually

1292
01:51:58.640 --> 01:52:04.760
because we're going to be doing the
debate review with Orthodox Shahada of the Daniel

1293
01:52:04.800 --> 01:52:09.479
Hikikichi debate. We've had to pause
that just because we're waiting for Lewis and

1294
01:52:09.600 --> 01:52:14.399
Kai to be able to do it. And then we've also got upcoming streams

1295
01:52:14.439 --> 01:52:17.039
and I'm gonna be doing several streams
with doctor Bill Branson coming up, and

1296
01:52:17.159 --> 01:52:20.239
we will be getting into some of
this. Although I'm gonna get it,

1297
01:52:20.239 --> 01:52:23.560
I don't want to get into all
of it because we may have, you

1298
01:52:23.640 --> 01:52:27.239
know, more Muslim debates coming up. So I want them to keep making

1299
01:52:27.359 --> 01:52:31.479
this argument because it's gonna be really
funny when we deconstruct it. But I

1300
01:52:31.560 --> 01:52:35.159
did answer some of this a minute
ago, maybe thirty minutes ago, in

1301
01:52:35.199 --> 01:52:43.560
this debate. Pereira up. You
want to try again? Hi? Can

1302
01:52:43.600 --> 01:52:47.079
you hear me? Yes, sir? What's up? Dude? So Firstly,

1303
01:52:47.079 --> 01:52:51.000
I want to say that I'm a
Peak fan and you actually made me

1304
01:52:51.079 --> 01:52:55.720
more Christian when I started listening to
your content with a lot of debates,

1305
01:52:56.520 --> 01:53:00.920
and one of the debates I saw
was Speth Rands and you did the very

1306
01:53:00.960 --> 01:53:05.159
old debates with Ryan Dawson. Yeah, And I was talking to Ryan Dawson

1307
01:53:05.279 --> 01:53:14.479
a few like yesterday and I told
him that he completely lost the debates and

1308
01:53:15.479 --> 01:53:19.000
you and him should do a rematch
again. And I had a MENI the

1309
01:53:19.039 --> 01:53:26.279
pate with Ryan Dawson. Any I
think it's went well, but that's not

1310
01:53:26.359 --> 01:53:30.239
the point. Will you ever to
a redebate with him? And we'll have

1311
01:53:30.399 --> 01:53:38.920
a have another talk. I mean, I don't feel like uh he grasped

1312
01:53:39.000 --> 01:53:43.279
the argument. So I don't know
what the point of another if I feel

1313
01:53:43.319 --> 01:53:45.520
like it would just be the same
debate over again. So I'll think about

1314
01:53:45.520 --> 01:53:48.239
it, though it's it's worth considering. Thank you for that, Pereira.

1315
01:53:48.399 --> 01:53:57.800
Let's move on to tapio. What's
up Tapio? If you guys would hit

1316
01:53:57.840 --> 01:54:14.600
like and share, I'm mute,
bro tapio tapioca pudding? Uh? Yeah,

1317
01:54:14.720 --> 01:54:18.439
So I'm Orthodox at heart, but
I've been worshiping at a Buddhist temple.

1318
01:54:19.199 --> 01:54:23.840
Uh No, I'm just kidding that
guy. I hope he finds a

1319
01:54:23.880 --> 01:54:29.960
real co ch church. I do
have a question on a determinism, So

1320
01:54:30.199 --> 01:54:34.239
I was interested in your view on
determinism and uh, because I sort of

1321
01:54:35.039 --> 01:54:38.039
I don't care too much about it, but I know a lot of people

1322
01:54:38.119 --> 01:54:42.000
do. And sort of the argument
that I've heard from people is that,

1323
01:54:42.439 --> 01:54:46.520
uh, because God knows the future
or because the prophets can know the future,

1324
01:54:47.000 --> 01:54:51.880
that that proves determinism, But I
don't know. I answer is I

1325
01:54:51.920 --> 01:54:56.760
don't know a good argument for that. I just believe on Yeah, So

1326
01:54:56.800 --> 01:54:58.920
I'm not trying to cut you off. But again there's a delay so you

1327
01:54:58.960 --> 01:55:00.640
can't hear me, and I want
to. I want to try to get

1328
01:55:00.680 --> 01:55:03.640
through more and more people here.
So knowing something doesn't necessitate or imply being

1329
01:55:03.680 --> 01:55:10.079
the cause of it. If I
overhear criminals planning plotting to rob the dairy

1330
01:55:10.199 --> 01:55:15.359
queen and they go and rob the
dairy queen, my knowledge of it doesn't

1331
01:55:15.399 --> 01:55:19.800
make me the cause of it.
Right. Likewise, God knowing everything does

1332
01:55:19.880 --> 01:55:25.439
not imply that he is the immediate
or first direct cause of all events.

1333
01:55:25.600 --> 01:55:30.520
That's why if you read Orthodox Faith
by John Damascus on their with our faith.

1334
01:55:30.520 --> 01:55:34.079
There's a whole section on secondary causes, so God permitting there to being

1335
01:55:34.119 --> 01:55:39.479
the reality of secondary causes, which
is what Muslims reject, by the way,

1336
01:55:40.439 --> 01:55:45.760
and why Muslims and Calvinists are Muslims
are always typically occasionalists. Calvinists are

1337
01:55:45.800 --> 01:55:51.039
sometimes occasionalists, and this is a
really ridiculous metaphysic. Go watch Lewis's excellent

1338
01:55:51.159 --> 01:56:00.479
video on the bizarre metaphysics of Islam. The occasionalist metaphysics is a Lewis made

1339
01:56:00.520 --> 01:56:04.800
an amazing video. Everybody ignored it
because muslim just don't understand philosophy. Unfortunately,

1340
01:56:04.880 --> 01:56:08.640
nine nine percent of them don't.
Okay, Yeah, there's an alga

1341
01:56:08.760 --> 01:56:13.560
Zali every now and then who's okay
at philosophy. But and you're like,

1342
01:56:13.720 --> 01:56:18.720
why I asked you a question about
Calvinism, why determinism? Why are you

1343
01:56:18.880 --> 01:56:25.079
telling me to go watch Muslim apologetics
videos Because it's the same argument and it

1344
01:56:25.319 --> 01:56:29.640
leads to the same conclusions, and
many Calvinists have adopted this stupid view.

1345
01:56:30.680 --> 01:56:42.920
So I'm meant to put orthodox shahada
and if you understand this, you will

1346
01:56:43.039 --> 01:56:56.680
understand this whole critique of the issues
are directly related and connected. And people

1347
01:56:56.760 --> 01:57:00.239
like Johnathan Edwards even became occasionalist precisely
because of this point. And if you

1348
01:57:00.279 --> 01:57:05.560
don't know, occasionalism is so dumbestant. God is literally at every nanosecond destroying

1349
01:57:05.600 --> 01:57:10.359
the world and recreating it. Thus, he is the direct cause of every

1350
01:57:10.439 --> 01:57:17.720
single event and the direct cause of
evil, absolutely, And some Muslim was

1351
01:57:17.800 --> 01:57:21.439
like, he does not even know. Isaiah says I create evil. It

1352
01:57:21.479 --> 01:57:26.279
doesn't mean creating evil as a metaphysical
substance. This is what happens when you

1353
01:57:26.319 --> 01:57:31.319
can't do philosophy. Isaiah is not
saying that God creates evil substances. It's

1354
01:57:31.359 --> 01:57:40.720
saying that he permits evil events to
occur or evil. There's different senses to

1355
01:57:40.800 --> 01:57:44.680
evil, right. Evil can be
a deprivation. Evil can be a natural

1356
01:57:44.760 --> 01:57:47.640
quote unquote evil like a storm or
an earthquake. Or evil can be a

1357
01:57:47.760 --> 01:57:53.359
moral transgression via the will moving against
the good. Those are the three senses

1358
01:57:53.399 --> 01:57:57.039
of the word quote evil. Right. And why do I say there's three

1359
01:57:57.079 --> 01:58:03.479
senses because throughout scripture we will notice
many instances where there's not just one sense

1360
01:58:03.520 --> 01:58:08.840
of evil. So once again we
see that people who are unlearned and confused

1361
01:58:09.239 --> 01:58:14.399
and ignorant think that one word has
one referent or meaning, the word concept

1362
01:58:14.479 --> 01:58:19.359
fallacy. So they think the word
evil always refers to moral evil, and

1363
01:58:19.479 --> 01:58:25.680
they therefore think God is the direct, immediate cause and creator of evil.

1364
01:58:25.960 --> 01:58:30.199
Or they even go so stupid into
like a Zoroastrian position where they think that

1365
01:58:30.279 --> 01:58:38.960
God actually creates a substance or a
being called evil. Satan is inherently evil.

1366
01:58:39.079 --> 01:58:42.920
God created him, So God creates
evil. That's the duellist logic,

1367
01:58:43.239 --> 01:58:47.920
you understand. So none of that
is our view. That's why metaphysics is

1368
01:58:48.039 --> 01:58:57.840
necessary in order to explain and demarcate
error from truth and to make distinctions so

1369
01:58:58.000 --> 01:59:03.199
that we don't fall into these dumb
mistakes. And every almost every heresy and

1370
01:59:03.239 --> 01:59:09.760
mistake, as I just wrote in
my sub stack, is a result of

1371
01:59:09.880 --> 01:59:15.880
low IQ and stupid misunderstandings of words. Not everything, but in a lot

1372
01:59:15.920 --> 01:59:18.199
of it. That's from Basil.
Basil says, every heretic trips up on

1373
01:59:18.279 --> 01:59:24.960
words and word concept fallacies, and
so they think that for example, the

1374
01:59:24.960 --> 01:59:30.039
word hypostasis, they always they think
it has one meaning. Hypostasis is a

1375
01:59:30.119 --> 01:59:38.039
generic term that can pick out any
individuated nature. That's what it means pre

1376
01:59:38.239 --> 01:59:45.560
nicia. Then it becomes specified post
Cappadocians, post Cyril, and particularly Maximus

1377
01:59:45.640 --> 01:59:51.399
and Johnamascus to be specifically the agent. This is how it's utilized in the

1378
01:59:51.479 --> 01:59:58.199
Fifth Council, and the Fifth Council
rejects the idea that hypostasis in terms of

1379
01:59:58.239 --> 02:00:01.640
the one hypostasis of Christ in car
that it can refer to an individuated nature

1380
02:00:01.640 --> 02:00:05.920
alone, because that would be to
make Christ a tertium quit a composit,

1381
02:00:06.840 --> 02:00:12.920
composit in the sense of a new
third thing. Composite can also mean made

1382
02:00:12.960 --> 02:00:16.760
of two things, two natures,
so composit can refer to a diophysite the

1383
02:00:17.960 --> 02:00:24.119
button. Hypostasis can also refer to
many things, one of a class of

1384
02:00:24.199 --> 02:00:29.159
things, any individuated thing, an
individuated existing nature of being. This is

1385
02:00:29.199 --> 02:00:31.039
why John Damascus says that you can
talk about the hypostasis of a tree,

1386
02:00:31.279 --> 02:00:35.479
a hypostasis of a chair. That's
not the only meaning a sense of the

1387
02:00:35.520 --> 02:00:41.600
word hypostasis, as he also in
that very work Fount of Knowledge later clarifies,

1388
02:00:45.319 --> 02:00:48.239
in the sense of the Fifth Council
uses hypostasis as a subject or agent,

1389
02:00:49.000 --> 02:00:54.720
it is only referring to the logos
the only subject the divine hypostasis of

1390
02:00:54.760 --> 02:00:59.159
the Logos, who assumed a human
nature, which does not have its own

1391
02:00:59.239 --> 02:01:02.159
hypostasis, but has for its hype
of stasis the logos who assumed it,

1392
02:01:02.920 --> 02:01:06.640
quote unquote. And this is the
only way, by the way, that

1393
02:01:06.680 --> 02:01:10.800
you're ever gonna be able to understand
the descent of Christ in Hades. That's

1394
02:01:10.800 --> 02:01:14.920
why John Demaskus in book three goes
on to describe the descent into Hades and

1395
02:01:15.159 --> 02:01:20.560
that Christ cannot be a tertition quid
because the divine person of the Logos descends

1396
02:01:20.600 --> 02:01:27.000
into Hades as the person to the
human soul and was never parted from his

1397
02:01:27.159 --> 02:01:44.039
human body. Brandon, Brandon,
what's going on, Jay? How are

1398
02:01:44.039 --> 02:01:46.640
you doing? Good man? What's
up? Really quick? I just wanted

1399
02:01:46.680 --> 02:01:51.119
to see if you had a response
to how could you the jihadi pika choose

1400
02:01:51.159 --> 02:01:59.239
statements that the early Church was controlled
by political entities and constantinople road, et

1401
02:01:59.279 --> 02:02:01.880
cetera, like a non argument.
I don't know if you'll addressed what's the

1402
02:02:02.840 --> 02:02:06.399
what's what's the argument that that's an
assertion? So what's the argument that that's

1403
02:02:06.439 --> 02:02:10.960
the case. Yeah, So I
can't articulated fully. I've only watched the

1404
02:02:11.000 --> 02:02:15.399
debate one and a half times,
but he our debate, councils were our

1405
02:02:16.199 --> 02:02:20.640
debate, Yes with mister Haw,
could you okay? Again? That's an

1406
02:02:20.640 --> 02:02:30.199
assertion, So what's the argument that
that's the case. I can't articulate that.

1407
02:02:30.279 --> 02:02:32.880
I'm not mister haw? Could you
okay? But did can you repeat

1408
02:02:32.920 --> 02:02:36.119
what his argument was? Or did
he even give one? He did in

1409
02:02:36.199 --> 02:02:39.760
his opening statements, and I'm sure
you'll get to it in the review,

1410
02:02:40.039 --> 02:02:45.039
but he claims that the early councils
were held by emperors of Rome, and

1411
02:02:45.119 --> 02:02:49.680
I guess Constantinople. Sure, okay, how does that mean that the church

1412
02:02:49.800 --> 02:02:54.800
is now a political tool because the
emperor called a council? What's the proof?

1413
02:02:54.840 --> 02:02:57.199
I mean, maybe it's the case, but what's the proof just saying

1414
02:02:57.319 --> 02:03:00.439
that because an emperor? I mean, could I could argue that Islam is

1415
02:03:00.479 --> 02:03:08.840
a completely false religion? I created
religion because caliphates were state rulers that change

1416
02:03:08.840 --> 02:03:13.920
and control the religion. So what
would be the required proof for something like

1417
02:03:14.000 --> 02:03:17.920
this? I mean, why are
you asking me? What would I mean?

1418
02:03:18.640 --> 02:03:21.439
I'm not I'm not, I'm not
a Muslim. I don't know.

1419
02:03:21.600 --> 02:03:25.159
I mean, what's the required proof? Or any kind of assertion. I

1420
02:03:25.239 --> 02:03:28.039
mean, it depends on the assertion
and depends on what you're trying to argue.

1421
02:03:28.039 --> 02:03:31.880
So if you're trying to argue that
the state controlled the church, you

1422
02:03:31.880 --> 02:03:36.640
would need to demonstrate it in some
way. This is the I mean,

1423
02:03:36.720 --> 02:03:40.399
I don't know. I don't make
this argument. I mean I've heard many

1424
02:03:40.479 --> 02:03:44.159
Protestants, in many Seventh day Adventists. They all make this argument, but

1425
02:03:44.239 --> 02:03:48.439
there's no okay, and the proof
is what an assertion? Well? Maybe

1426
02:03:48.600 --> 02:03:51.880
again, I don't know what's the
Maybe there is an argument? What is

1427
02:03:51.920 --> 02:03:57.920
it? Do you do you know
the difference between argument assertion? I do

1428
02:03:58.119 --> 02:04:00.000
know the difference between argument and assertion. I see what you're getting at.

1429
02:04:00.039 --> 02:04:04.920
But because I'm not making the arguments, I can't and I can't articulate what

1430
02:04:05.119 --> 02:04:12.720
his argument was because it sounded just
like an assertion. Okay, Okay,

1431
02:04:12.880 --> 02:04:15.680
I don't know, Thanks Jake.
Yeah, I mean I need to hear

1432
02:04:15.840 --> 02:04:20.079
something about I'm not calling you out
bro arguing with his own stub. Yeah,

1433
02:04:20.079 --> 02:04:23.760
I will argue with people that subscribe
to me, sure, but I

1434
02:04:23.800 --> 02:04:26.239
don't know that that dude even was
subscribing. This is open for him.

1435
02:04:26.279 --> 02:04:28.680
So people, again, no,
I gotta find a way to make die

1436
02:04:28.760 --> 02:04:30.000
or look bad. What's he doing? Is he? Is he calling out

1437
02:04:30.039 --> 02:04:38.199
his I mean, I'm not gonna
make arguments for Daniel's dumb arguments. I

1438
02:04:38.239 --> 02:04:42.640
don't understand that the objection I go
ahead? That would Oh hey, Jake.

1439
02:04:45.439 --> 02:04:48.760
Yeah. So I had a pretty
basic question because I was watching one

1440
02:04:48.760 --> 02:04:54.159
of David's videos. It's kind of
related to the transcendental argument. He was

1441
02:04:54.199 --> 02:05:00.279
basically talking about how like logic is
a necessary conceptual entity that exists in all

1442
02:05:00.359 --> 02:05:05.399
minds. Who was making this argument? Sorry, who was making this argument?

1443
02:05:05.960 --> 02:05:13.479
Oh? David David, okay,
yeah, And he said it had

1444
02:05:13.479 --> 02:05:17.600
to be grounded in a necessary conceptual
personal being. Sure, I think,

1445
02:05:17.680 --> 02:05:21.880
I think I think you can argue
that. Yeah, yeah, But my

1446
02:05:23.000 --> 02:05:26.600
question was like, how does that
actually work? Like what do you mean

1447
02:05:26.720 --> 02:05:30.079
when you say, oh, it's
grounded in the divine mind? Like,

1448
02:05:30.880 --> 02:05:34.920
is it a like all logi?
Is that what it is? Yeah?

1449
02:05:35.039 --> 02:05:40.319
Ultimately that's where a metaphysic would go. So to the guy in the chat

1450
02:05:40.359 --> 02:05:44.399
there, Errol Flynn, you want
to argue, here's your link. Yes,

1451
02:05:44.560 --> 02:05:47.840
Ultimately the logi are the divine thought
wills correct, and they are the

1452
02:05:48.479 --> 02:05:54.439
logical structures in the divine mind that
underlie all of the created logic and structures

1453
02:05:54.479 --> 02:05:59.520
of the creative world. Okay,
yeah, there seems to be like some

1454
02:05:59.680 --> 02:06:04.760
kind of distinction between like the created
aspect of logic and like logic in the

1455
02:06:04.840 --> 02:06:12.039
sense of I mean, right,
so Maximus says. Maximus says universals are

1456
02:06:12.079 --> 02:06:16.920
creatures, They're not the divine mind. Platonists think that universals are the divine

1457
02:06:16.960 --> 02:06:24.880
mind, right, Okay, I
mean, is there any sense in which

1458
02:06:25.359 --> 02:06:30.079
logic is like an eternal thing.
The logi, which are the bases for

1459
02:06:30.520 --> 02:06:38.359
created logic, are eternal ideas in
the divine mind. So the created number

1460
02:06:38.439 --> 02:06:43.600
seven is based on the uncreated number
seven in the divine mind. Okay,

1461
02:06:43.640 --> 02:06:45.640
I got you. I think that
makes sense, all right, thanks,

1462
02:06:45.920 --> 02:06:48.119
sure, yeah, no problem.
By the way, I wasn't been trying

1463
02:06:48.159 --> 02:06:51.800
to be mean to that guy about
the hiki kachu. It's like he wants

1464
02:06:51.840 --> 02:06:57.479
me to refute an assertion that Hikikichu, to my knowledge, doesn't have an

1465
02:06:57.520 --> 02:07:02.079
argument for so I'm just saying,
ask Daniel what the argument is. It's

1466
02:07:02.159 --> 02:07:08.600
like you want me to refute everybody's
assertions. We would never get anywhere Errol

1467
02:07:08.640 --> 02:07:10.880
Flynn, why are you talking?
Just come on the chat. What are

1468
02:07:10.880 --> 02:07:13.800
you talking about? If you want
to make an argument, come make an

1469
02:07:13.840 --> 02:07:29.520
argument, truth seeker, what's up? Man? So I was often here

1470
02:07:29.520 --> 02:07:33.319
at orthodox maker critique against Protestants by
saying that they can know the correct interpretation

1471
02:07:33.359 --> 02:07:36.800
of the Bible, and that Protestants
are in error by assuming that they can

1472
02:07:36.960 --> 02:07:42.239
though by simply looking at the text. So my question for you is having

1473
02:07:42.319 --> 02:07:45.840
can you, as an Orthodox know
you have the correct interpretation of the Testament

1474
02:07:45.880 --> 02:07:48.880
in contrast with like Jews who would
give a different interpretation. Yeah, you're

1475
02:07:48.880 --> 02:07:56.079
just confusing two different categories of existential
certitude versus normative authority. So the argument

1476
02:07:56.239 --> 02:08:01.000
is not that because you read the
text as a Protestant, you can't know

1477
02:08:01.159 --> 02:08:05.960
the meaning of the text. The
point is that there's nobody to enforce or

1478
02:08:05.000 --> 02:08:11.840
authoritative authoritatively make decisions to excommunicate or
bind anybody to any interpretations. Those are

1479
02:08:11.880 --> 02:08:16.800
two different arguments. So no,
I don't make the argument that because you're

1480
02:08:16.800 --> 02:08:22.239
a Protestant you can't know the meaning
of a text. Okay, so how

1481
02:08:22.279 --> 02:08:26.439
do you know which authorities correct,
whether it's like Catholics or Orthodox or the

1482
02:08:26.600 --> 02:08:31.279
rabbis right, So the question of
how I know would be a holistic question

1483
02:08:31.399 --> 02:08:37.079
of which world view is coherent,
which one is not. Okay, and

1484
02:08:37.199 --> 02:08:41.000
then can I ask one more questions? Okay, So you said in the

1485
02:08:41.119 --> 02:08:45.680
debate with Daniel that you said we're
not Protestant, so it doesn't matter if

1486
02:08:45.680 --> 02:08:48.319
there's variance in the text. Can
you just explain what you meant by that.

1487
02:08:48.560 --> 02:08:52.319
Yeah, there's a James Snap interview
that I did where there's variations are

1488
02:08:52.399 --> 02:08:58.920
called copyist errors. Those are different
from theological or historical or inspiration errors.

1489
02:09:00.079 --> 02:09:03.600
So I did not I'm not affirming
historic errors. I'm affirming the reality of

1490
02:09:03.680 --> 02:09:09.720
copyist mistakes because there's a lot of
manuscripts that have minor variations. But that's

1491
02:09:09.760 --> 02:09:13.079
like minuscule. So go watch the
James Snap interview snapp that I did.

1492
02:09:15.479 --> 02:09:20.079
Okay, cool, thank you?
Yeah you good questions. Yeah, I

1493
02:09:20.079 --> 02:09:28.079
remember that. There's a difference between
saying that normative authority is a problem in

1494
02:09:28.159 --> 02:09:33.640
the Protestant world where there's not anyone
to bind anybody to any interpretation or to

1495
02:09:33.800 --> 02:09:39.920
excommunicate anybody for any interpretational error.
Right, that's different. That's called normative

1496
02:09:39.960 --> 02:09:46.399
authority. Normative normativity and ethics versus
the question of individual epistemic certitude or knowledge.

1497
02:09:46.479 --> 02:09:52.520
Two different things. Kind of Protestant
read the Bible and have true propositional

1498
02:09:52.600 --> 02:09:56.720
knowledge as a result of it.
Sure, sure, nobody ever deny that

1499
02:09:58.039 --> 02:10:01.039
or made that argument, but a
lot people get confused. Protestants, romancalox

1500
02:10:01.199 --> 02:10:05.079
and even Orthodox. They get confused
on this because it's called a category error.

1501
02:10:05.159 --> 02:10:11.560
It's confusing two different things. The
question of individual certitude. Okay,

1502
02:10:11.960 --> 02:10:16.079
that's not answered by simply saying,
oh, we have a pope, oh

1503
02:10:16.159 --> 02:10:20.000
we have counsels. Okay, that
doesn't solve that question. That's why that

1504
02:10:20.199 --> 02:10:26.159
question ultimately is solved by the Holy
Spirit speaking to the individual. And everybody

1505
02:10:26.279 --> 02:10:30.319
believes this, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, everybody believes that at the

1506
02:10:30.439 --> 02:10:37.960
end of the day, the ultimate
interpreter and giver of certitude is the Holy

1507
02:10:37.039 --> 02:10:43.520
Spirit. However, that doesn't solve
the question of the means by which we

1508
02:10:43.600 --> 02:10:48.399
come to that certitude. And that's
where we differ with the Protestant and the

1509
02:10:48.479 --> 02:10:52.159
Roman Calitic. For the Protestant,
the means is the Bible alone. Even

1510
02:10:52.159 --> 02:10:56.680
the Bible at the end of the
day, you might like church fathers,

1511
02:10:56.880 --> 02:11:00.199
you might like some of the councils, but at the end of the day,

1512
02:11:00.279 --> 02:11:07.920
it's you and your prayer corner and
the Bible. For the Roman Catholic,

1513
02:11:07.479 --> 02:11:13.159
it's the papal affirmations, dogmatic teachings. At the end of the day,

1514
02:11:13.199 --> 02:11:16.800
it's not even the councils. Counsels
might be cool, they might have

1515
02:11:16.960 --> 02:11:22.800
some neat things, but counsels don't
even really matter because ultimately it's the councils

1516
02:11:22.840 --> 02:11:28.199
that the Pope approves, you see. So for the Roman Catholic, at

1517
02:11:28.199 --> 02:11:31.720
the end of the day, it's
you with the papal documents and the things

1518
02:11:31.800 --> 02:11:35.199
approved by the Pope. That's the
means by which you come to know.

1519
02:11:37.279 --> 02:11:41.920
So the question then as well,
between a Protestant, Romancy and Orthodox.

1520
02:11:41.960 --> 02:11:46.640
The only way we're gonna solve that
question as to who is the real church,

1521
02:11:46.800 --> 02:11:50.560
it's going to be who's in continuity
with the first thousand years, because

1522
02:11:50.600 --> 02:11:56.600
contrary to the Protestant, the Church
of the first thousand years decided what books

1523
02:11:56.640 --> 02:12:00.560
going to the Bible. But contrary
to the Roman Catholic, we would say,

1524
02:12:01.439 --> 02:12:05.439
allah the Alexandria document that they just
put out. The modus operandi of

1525
02:12:05.520 --> 02:12:11.399
the church is the Orthodox Church,
as the Alexandria Document admits except for like

1526
02:12:11.520 --> 02:12:16.119
two points. So basically all of
these Orthodox arguments that you've been hearing me

1527
02:12:16.199 --> 02:12:24.880
make for so many years, the
Alexandria Document of Francis and his Commission has

1528
02:12:24.960 --> 02:12:28.800
now admitted ninety five percent of the
points we've been making. Do you understand

1529
02:12:28.840 --> 02:12:33.359
this? I can't believe. Well. I can understand why Roman calvics have

1530
02:12:33.520 --> 02:12:41.479
been quiet on this. Roman has
been pretty quiet since this dropped. I

1531
02:12:41.560 --> 02:12:48.479
can understand why they've been quiet.
But now how ridiculous than to want to

1532
02:12:50.760 --> 02:12:58.239
unite with Rome given the admissions in
this document. And I've been by the

1533
02:12:58.279 --> 02:13:03.439
way, I've had some Roman Catholics. I've said, where y'all at?

1534
02:13:03.520 --> 02:13:09.319
Like, do y'all not see the
issue with this? What the hell am

1535
02:13:09.319 --> 02:13:13.399
I babbling about? You don't know? So you don't know what the Alexandria

1536
02:13:13.479 --> 02:13:18.560
Document is? Are you talking about
somebody else? Bad one? All these

1537
02:13:18.560 --> 02:13:24.279
people talking smack man, You guys
need to come talk to me. Quit

1538
02:13:24.399 --> 02:13:33.720
hiding behind your lame profiles there and
come come talk directly. But anyway,

1539
02:13:33.760 --> 02:13:37.600
the Alexandria Document is basically the follow
up to the Chad Document Kiady Document,

1540
02:13:37.680 --> 02:13:46.159
which is the Roman Commission on Orthodox
Issues, approved by Francis and Katy was

1541
02:13:46.199 --> 02:13:52.119
twenty sixteen, and it basically said
the most relevant thing in that whole document.

1542
02:13:52.159 --> 02:13:56.279
These aren't even that long ten pages
print amount. It basically said,

1543
02:13:56.279 --> 02:14:03.560
the Orthodox are correct on the point
that the appeal to Rome in the first

1544
02:14:03.640 --> 02:14:09.960
thousand years was not a unilateral thing
and the churches did exercise independence. Okay,

1545
02:14:11.520 --> 02:14:15.560
so it admits our jurisdiction point.
Now, of course, the Chieti

1546
02:14:15.640 --> 02:14:20.039
document still wants to argue that the
Bishop of Rome has unilateral authority, right.

1547
02:14:20.079 --> 02:14:26.479
I know that, however, amazingly, and this has to be in

1548
02:14:26.560 --> 02:14:31.199
preparation for the false Union of twenty
twenty five. By the way, the

1549
02:14:31.039 --> 02:14:39.560
Alexandria document basically admits ninety to ninety
five percent of the apologetic complaints that we've

1550
02:14:39.640 --> 02:14:45.840
had, which is baffling to me
because if this is the case, then

1551
02:14:45.960 --> 02:14:48.079
Vatican One is not the case.
I mean, it's not like rocket science.

1552
02:14:48.119 --> 02:14:54.960
It might get it might sound confusing
here or abstract, and unfortunately it's

1553
02:14:56.199 --> 02:15:00.560
I can't the document is so freaking
the link is sold long. I can't

1554
02:15:00.600 --> 02:15:09.159
link it. But it's called synodality
and primacy. In the second Millennium Alexandro

1555
02:15:09.319 --> 02:15:13.920
June seven, twenty twenty three,
the Joint Commission between Romancalities and Orthodox approved

1556
02:15:13.920 --> 02:15:18.880
by Pope Francis. Go read the
document. It's not long. Everybody's too

1557
02:15:20.960 --> 02:15:28.119
lazy. They can't read this this
document. If you're too lazy, go

1558
02:15:28.520 --> 02:15:33.000
listen to our two hour breakdown of
it right there with Snack and David.

1559
02:15:37.520 --> 02:15:45.079
Again, this is like light years
beyond the C eighty document admitting ninety nine

1560
02:15:45.319 --> 02:15:52.159
percent of our points. And then
some Orthodox goofballs who I guess didn't watch

1561
02:15:52.279 --> 02:15:56.600
the podcast we did. They thought
we were arguing that we should unite with

1562
02:15:56.720 --> 02:16:03.039
Rome. What of course not just
totally missed the point or being or lying.

1563
02:16:07.760 --> 02:16:13.720
Well, we didn't say this document
was up stepping stone to union with

1564
02:16:13.840 --> 02:16:16.319
Rome. We said the document admits
our possessions. It means Rome, it

1565
02:16:16.359 --> 02:16:22.920
means Rose Faults. We're talking about. It's ridiculous, all right. Junker

1566
02:16:24.000 --> 02:16:28.880
George, that's h Martin luther name, Junker George name for Martin lu That

1567
02:16:28.960 --> 02:16:35.319
was Martin Luther's uh uh, that's
his spy he went under. When he

1568
02:16:35.440 --> 02:16:39.879
went into hiding, he called himself
Junker George. Yeah, that's me yep,

1569
02:16:39.360 --> 02:16:43.600
Okay, So do you confirm the
Council of Florence where he says the

1570
02:16:43.760 --> 02:16:48.479
father together with the son eternally is
from one principle, a single spiration,

1571
02:16:50.040 --> 02:17:01.479
of course, not because you three
person because what because of what do you

1572
02:17:01.520 --> 02:17:09.520
believe in three persons doctrine? Yeah? I mean that's from Orthodoxy. Well

1573
02:17:09.600 --> 02:17:13.079
what is the Council of Florence is
not Orthodoxy? Uh no, it's a

1574
02:17:13.120 --> 02:17:20.159
false Roman Catholic council. Oh so
you Filo of Alexandra is the one?

1575
02:17:20.200 --> 02:17:24.079
Okay? So yeah, so you
didn't even you didn't even know. Goodbye,

1576
02:17:24.120 --> 02:17:24.879
You didn't even know, right,
So you gotta try. You gonna

1577
02:17:24.920 --> 02:17:26.760
try to stomp me. You don't
even know what the Council Florence was.

1578
02:17:26.840 --> 02:17:37.079
Good job, we already did you
Junker George nice trot archibald or I can't

1579
02:17:37.120 --> 02:17:41.719
read that name. What's up,
dude? So we got a Lutheran trying

1580
02:17:41.760 --> 02:17:45.120
to own me. Didn't even know
what the Council Florence was? Good good

1581
02:17:45.200 --> 02:17:58.159
try, dude? What's up?
Dude? All right, he's not connecting,

1582
02:17:58.479 --> 02:18:13.639
So I jose, are you there? How do I remove him?

1583
02:18:16.639 --> 02:18:22.680
That's not working. Let's move on
to the next dude here, brand Eric

1584
02:18:22.760 --> 02:18:31.079
g. What's up? Eric G's
next top g aka Eric Gutti, Dougatti.

1585
02:18:33.319 --> 02:18:37.760
Hello, Okay, sorry, sorry, Yeah, I was just wondering,

1586
02:18:37.840 --> 02:18:41.879
like, as a Protestant, I've
been really looking at Orthodoxy based off

1587
02:18:41.920 --> 02:18:45.159
of really a lot of what you
said and people like David Patrick, Harry

1588
02:18:45.719 --> 02:18:50.360
and all that, and like I
already got some books that you suggested,

1589
02:18:50.440 --> 02:18:54.799
like Metaphysics Constructing a Worldview from William
Hasker, even though it's not like Orthodoxy,

1590
02:18:54.959 --> 02:18:58.760
just to get started with philosophy,
I'm just saying, like, where

1591
02:18:58.760 --> 02:19:01.680
would if if you were like,
how would you suggest I get started?

1592
02:19:01.799 --> 02:19:05.360
Like what should I be reading?
Because I'm also in the middle of the

1593
02:19:05.399 --> 02:19:09.319
Midwest. Two and it's kind of
hard to find like Orthodox Church as well?

1594
02:19:09.680 --> 02:19:13.440
Well, wait, are you wanting
to study philosophy You're wanted to get

1595
02:19:13.440 --> 02:19:18.159
into Orthodoxy both well, but I
mean, what are you asking for a

1596
02:19:18.280 --> 02:19:24.079
request? Like, what what are
you asking for? You want like a

1597
02:19:24.120 --> 02:19:28.399
ready, I'll say that, Yeah. I would read uh, Mystical Theology

1598
02:19:28.639 --> 02:19:33.559
of the Orthodox Church by Vladimir Loovsky
as an introduction. I would read Orthodox

1599
02:19:33.719 --> 02:19:37.840
Church by my Endorf. I would
read Visiting Theology by my Endorf. Those

1600
02:19:37.840 --> 02:19:43.520
are good theological introductions. And then
if you want to read philosophy, uh

1601
02:19:43.959 --> 02:19:48.600
that same series that you got the
metaphysics book, I would say, read

1602
02:19:48.680 --> 02:19:54.200
the W. J. Wood Epistemology
book in that in that series. Okay,

1603
02:19:54.719 --> 02:19:56.200
all right, well that's it.
Oh and just one more thing.

1604
02:19:58.280 --> 02:20:01.639
I was curious. I heard you
say I think it was almost a live

1605
02:20:01.719 --> 02:20:05.079
stream. You said, Heaven and
Hell. Most people see it like how

1606
02:20:05.159 --> 02:20:09.920
it's like when they die. It's
like a court system sort of thing where

1607
02:20:09.959 --> 02:20:11.879
you're, you know, God's like
a judge and either go to heaven or

1608
02:20:11.959 --> 02:20:16.000
hell. But you said that was
like, that's that's wrong. Well,

1609
02:20:16.159 --> 02:20:22.920
now, what I'm saying is that
the Protestant view sees it as a solely

1610
02:20:22.360 --> 02:20:28.479
typically in a court sense. Now
the New Testament does in the Bible as

1611
02:20:28.479 --> 02:20:31.079
a whole. I mean, it
does use the court analogy, but that's

1612
02:20:31.159 --> 02:20:37.399
just one of many analogies of our
relationship to God. There's the bride bridegroom

1613
02:20:37.399 --> 02:20:43.600
analogy, right, There's the tree
branches analogy. There's the sheep sheepful,

1614
02:20:43.760 --> 02:20:48.520
sheep shepherd and sheepful. There's a
ton. There's a ton of analogies.

1615
02:20:48.040 --> 02:20:52.680
And I'm just saying that there's a
tendency in Protestanism because of the doctrine of

1616
02:20:52.719 --> 02:20:58.639
justification by faith alone to see the
relationship as exclusively at times this legal status.

1617
02:21:00.479 --> 02:21:05.639
That's all I meant. Okay,
yeah, great questions. Yeah,

1618
02:21:05.920 --> 02:21:09.799
that doesn't mean that there's not the
legal element, right, But it's only

1619
02:21:09.879 --> 02:21:13.799
one of the many analogies in the
New Testament. That's all I was trying

1620
02:21:13.799 --> 02:21:26.159
to say, Uh, Michael,
what's up? Michael. By the way,

1621
02:21:26.159 --> 02:21:30.799
if you guys what hit like and
share, I'll read the superjats soon.

1622
02:21:30.959 --> 02:21:33.920
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1644
02:23:05.840 --> 02:23:13.520
What's up to I guess we lost
our last guy, Brad badbre very big,

1645
02:23:13.760 --> 02:23:18.399
umbrage, very big. We got
your in bed ombrage and jam,

1646
02:23:18.440 --> 02:23:22.239
what's going on? Man? What's
up? I appreciate you opening up your

1647
02:23:22.319 --> 02:23:26.520
platform like this. I also want
to apologize. I'm just now kind of

1648
02:23:26.520 --> 02:23:30.159
getting into all your material, and
you're pretty prolific, so I'm sure there's

1649
02:23:30.239 --> 02:23:35.639
a lot of things that I've missed. I just recently watched your your discussion

1650
02:23:35.760 --> 02:23:41.840
was with Pastor Pe. Now,
without lending credence to solar Scripture, which

1651
02:23:43.120 --> 02:23:48.200
I don't strictly adhere to, I
do think I kind of want to take

1652
02:23:48.239 --> 02:23:50.879
up some of these arguments that I
think he was making. Okay, I

1653
02:23:52.000 --> 02:23:54.920
think really it was the point he
was trying to make, like really comes

1654
02:23:54.959 --> 02:24:01.040
down to maybe like first cause,
first principles kind of conversation here at the

1655
02:24:01.120 --> 02:24:03.920
end of the day, you know, it's God's would that justifies, right,

1656
02:24:05.479 --> 02:24:11.440
even whether it's scripture or whether it's
in church itself. H Well,

1657
02:24:11.479 --> 02:24:15.120
I don't think that. I don't
think that God's word is exclusively written texts

1658
02:24:15.440 --> 02:24:16.920
God. I agree with you,
Okay, God's word is hold on.

1659
02:24:18.159 --> 02:24:20.360
So God's word is first and foremost
the second person that godhead, right,

1660
02:24:22.079 --> 02:24:26.200
Yes, Okay, So God's word
is also partly recorded in scripture. We

1661
02:24:26.280 --> 02:24:30.319
agree there, right, yep,
okay, But I also believe that God's

1662
02:24:30.520 --> 02:24:33.479
word is the oral teachings of the
apostles as well. Do you agree with

1663
02:24:33.559 --> 02:24:37.159
that or not? I do?
Okay. So you think that when Paul's

1664
02:24:37.200 --> 02:24:41.200
teaching for three years, day and
night at Ephesus all acts, that's also

1665
02:24:41.319 --> 02:24:46.239
preaching God's quote word, right,
I would, I would assume so yes

1666
02:24:46.399 --> 02:24:48.559
on things. Okay, So we
agree there, go ahead, Yeah,

1667
02:24:48.719 --> 02:24:54.680
And all of the saying is that
I don't think it's necessary too, because

1668
02:24:54.719 --> 02:24:58.559
we can't know all of the traditions
and all of all of what was said,

1669
02:24:58.600 --> 02:25:01.840
right, because John and Soil says, you know, if I was

1670
02:25:01.840 --> 02:25:05.760
a write down everything at Christ,
right, so we can't know the totality

1671
02:25:05.799 --> 02:25:09.360
of what hold on hold on.
So but because we don't know all of

1672
02:25:09.399 --> 02:25:16.000
the things that Jesus taught and did, it doesn't follow from that that all

1673
02:25:16.159 --> 02:25:20.319
I do know is the written text
that's a non sequitor, and that with

1674
02:25:20.440 --> 02:25:22.760
us not the argument that I'm making, okay. So what I'm saying is

1675
02:25:24.079 --> 02:25:26.040
is that you know, if at
the end of the day, this all

1676
02:25:26.120 --> 02:25:31.239
comes down to salvation, right where
you are in your stance with God.

1677
02:25:31.760 --> 02:25:33.799
You know, it doesn't matter what
you know, what church, because I'm

1678
02:25:33.920 --> 02:25:37.600
of the belief that I think we
hold on, hold on, it doesn't

1679
02:25:37.600 --> 02:25:41.920
matter what church. Well, that
just assumes that there isn't one tro church.

1680
02:25:43.639 --> 02:25:46.000
The one tr churches is the entire
body of Christ, as they are

1681
02:25:46.079 --> 02:25:50.719
connected to the Head. Now it
doesn't hold on. So Paul says,

1682
02:25:50.840 --> 02:25:54.079
one body, one Lord, one
faith. Do you think that Protestantism has

1683
02:25:54.120 --> 02:25:58.879
one faith? Well, my argument
isn't you know I'm not arguing Protestant to

1684
02:26:00.559 --> 02:26:03.639
Well, you just said. You
just said they're all connected to That's what

1685
02:26:03.760 --> 02:26:09.079
you said. You just said all
of the groups are connecting. That is

1686
02:26:09.120 --> 02:26:15.559
what you said. You just said
they're all connected to the head. You

1687
02:26:15.719 --> 02:26:18.879
just said they're all connected to the
head. So you are arguing. I

1688
02:26:18.920 --> 02:26:20.879
said, no, no, no, no, no. I said the

1689
02:26:20.559 --> 02:26:26.159
church is that which is connected to
the head. I didn't say proms because

1690
02:26:26.239 --> 02:26:28.120
I can't speak on that. Who
is the So you don't know who the

1691
02:26:28.159 --> 02:26:31.719
church? So we don't know who
the church is. I'm sorry, So

1692
02:26:31.879 --> 02:26:35.399
we don't know who the church is. What I'm saying is the church could

1693
02:26:35.440 --> 02:26:39.159
be contained within some could be within
excuses. So you just said what I

1694
02:26:39.200 --> 02:26:43.719
said. You said, Well,
I mean, first of all, you

1695
02:26:43.760 --> 02:26:46.360
didn't allow me to finish what I
was saying. What I'm saying is is

1696
02:26:46.399 --> 02:26:52.600
that a believer who believes in Christ? So you're not this is again,

1697
02:26:52.760 --> 02:26:58.399
this is you did say what I
said. You said, so I'm not

1698
02:26:58.440 --> 02:27:03.920
going to rehearse the Acumanist doctrine of
the church that all of the different groups

1699
02:27:05.000 --> 02:27:09.680
have true believers. That's that's what
I'm arguing against. So you're just restating

1700
02:27:09.440 --> 02:27:15.719
the branch theory that the church exists
amongst a thousand different groups. I specifically

1701
02:27:15.799 --> 02:27:18.920
said, then how is there one
faith? And then you just restarted the

1702
02:27:18.959 --> 02:27:26.120
position Brandon again. Yes, serge, you hurt my feelings. So I

1703
02:27:26.280 --> 02:27:30.959
just wanted to ask you good pay
for my psychologist. Yes, in fact,

1704
02:27:31.639 --> 02:27:35.159
everybody should at times have their feelings
hurt. Okay, I just want

1705
02:27:35.200 --> 02:27:37.680
to say you weren't worried to me
at all. People need to stop getting

1706
02:27:37.680 --> 02:27:41.639
their feelings hurt on behalf of others
and maybe start taking tonkat a lead to

1707
02:27:41.680 --> 02:27:45.399
boost the tests. That's what I'm
talking about. Yes, get some of

1708
02:27:45.440 --> 02:27:48.440
that ton u cat and stop being
a tone policing. Soy man. Thank

1709
02:27:48.520 --> 02:27:58.399
you, Jay, Yeah, thank
you Dan. What's up Dan. I'm

1710
02:27:58.399 --> 02:28:01.840
gonna gonna try to squeeze in his
men as I can. We got to

1711
02:28:01.479 --> 02:28:05.760
do some things. Go ahead,
Dan, what's up? Hey Jay?

1712
02:28:07.520 --> 02:28:13.000
Yeah, So I just had a
question about Yeah, Orthodoxy, the Orthodox

1713
02:28:13.200 --> 02:28:18.879
Church. There's a bit of a
I guess that like a time period from

1714
02:28:18.920 --> 02:28:24.319
when you are you're an inquirer and
then you're cat of human and then you're

1715
02:28:24.559 --> 02:28:28.719
baptized and you're and you're a member
of the of the church. Has it

1716
02:28:28.840 --> 02:28:35.120
always been a long process? I've
been going to a parish for not very

1717
02:28:35.159 --> 02:28:39.000
long. Yeah, it's one to
three years. And and I I've made

1718
02:28:39.120 --> 02:28:43.559
my h one to three years typically
one to three years. Yeah, go

1719
02:28:43.639 --> 02:28:52.559
ahead, one two three years typically
really okay, wow, all right?

1720
02:28:52.680 --> 02:28:56.600
And I just that's interesting though.
And so right from the beginning it was

1721
02:28:56.680 --> 02:29:03.120
one two three years. There wasn't
there wasn't kind of like any mm hmmm,

1722
02:29:03.319 --> 02:29:09.360
not emergency, but there was no
like hurry, there was no rush.

1723
02:29:09.479 --> 02:29:13.399
There was no we do that.
We're the opposite that we repent and

1724
02:29:13.680 --> 02:29:16.360
we don't want to rush people.
No, we do not want to rush

1725
02:29:16.440 --> 02:29:22.280
to convert people. Because it is
a lot of mistakes. It's not wise

1726
02:29:22.360 --> 02:29:26.920
to do this in a in a
rushed way. So okay, yeah,

1727
02:29:26.959 --> 02:29:28.879
good questions though, not trying to
be rude. I just want to get

1728
02:29:28.920 --> 02:29:33.719
through some of the other people.
But yeah, when I was evangelical,

1729
02:29:33.000 --> 02:29:35.600
I thought, oh, you just
gotta convert people quick. No, no,

1730
02:29:35.840 --> 02:29:46.319
it's not it's not how it works. Danny, what's up, Gotta?

1731
02:29:46.360 --> 02:29:56.040
I'm mute? Brow are you?
What's up? Dolls? Quick?

1732
02:29:56.120 --> 02:30:03.399
Things here? I'm really concern of
all what whatever you you guys are expanding

1733
02:30:03.559 --> 02:30:11.280
there against all their brothers and sisters
in the in the church. What I

1734
02:30:11.399 --> 02:30:18.040
think I think we are really you
know, one church and you know who's

1735
02:30:18.079 --> 02:30:24.280
wait wait who wait about? Who
are you doing about? Who? Can

1736
02:30:24.319 --> 02:30:26.600
you hear me? We? Who? Who are you talking about? I

1737
02:30:26.680 --> 02:30:33.559
mean I think you're you're are part
of a team or or you're alone here?

1738
02:30:33.799 --> 02:30:39.000
What is your is your channel?
You're allowing your channel? Sorry?

1739
02:30:39.040 --> 02:30:41.360
Man, I just not understand what
you're saying. I'm gonna move on to

1740
02:30:41.840 --> 02:30:54.920
Dominique. What's that due? Dominique? You sir? What's up? Okay?

1741
02:30:54.000 --> 02:30:58.959
So I just had a question.
I just really need advice about So

1742
02:30:58.959 --> 02:31:01.440
okay, that's going on in macas. Okay, I don't. I don't

1743
02:31:01.479 --> 02:31:03.959
do that. Don't give a current
parish advice. Sorry, we're moving on.

1744
02:31:05.120 --> 02:31:16.600
Let's go to Michael. What's up, Michael? Do I believe in

1745
02:31:16.639 --> 02:31:18.760
the Trinity? Come on, man? Obviously? What are you guys talking

1746
02:31:18.760 --> 02:31:24.159
about? Michael? Are you there? Man? Hello? Yeah, what's

1747
02:31:24.239 --> 02:31:35.280
up? Man? What's up?
Doll oh? Oh, dear me,

1748
02:31:35.479 --> 02:31:46.760
Yeah, I hear you, dude. It's your dollar. I Dennis five

1749
02:31:46.840 --> 02:31:52.120
dollars, so, thank you,
thank you, Dannis Cedric Cedric Cedric Cedrick

1750
02:31:52.520 --> 02:31:54.600
five dollars. I'm a new member. I love your archives. Hey,

1751
02:31:54.639 --> 02:31:56.760
thank you. Yeah, I remember
you. Guys can subscribe to the website

1752
02:31:56.799 --> 02:31:58.639
to support my work. Also get
access to the last eight years or so

1753
02:31:58.799 --> 02:32:05.559
of archives of deep analysis, hundreds
of lectures and talks on all kinds of

1754
02:32:05.639 --> 02:32:11.399
stuff. So avail yourselves of that
educational resource by dipping into that right there.

1755
02:32:11.360 --> 02:32:16.559
And let's see what else we got
here. John Vanderschweet five dollars.

1756
02:32:16.680 --> 02:32:20.719
I can use the legos to explain
the Trinity. No, now, that

1757
02:32:20.959 --> 02:32:24.399
was the lego example was for the
hypostatic union, not the Trinity. Davon

1758
02:32:24.479 --> 02:32:28.639
Martin twenty dollars. Thank you for
pointing me to the true Church. We

1759
02:32:28.760 --> 02:32:31.000
were kind of humans at they were
the dog Church and we love you videos.

1760
02:32:31.040 --> 02:32:33.639
Hey, thank you Davon space Monkey
twelve seventy three. Thank you,

1761
02:32:33.799 --> 02:32:39.719
thank you space Monkey. Be John
ninety eight, ten dollars. Can you

1762
02:32:39.760 --> 02:32:50.000
explain, Daniel twelve nine to ten? I mean, is that archangel Michael?

1763
02:32:50.959 --> 02:32:54.879
I'm not sure what I'll talk my
head, Daniel twelve nine to tens.

1764
02:32:54.959 --> 02:33:05.479
Let's see. Let's get over here. Although I heard it, did

1765
02:33:05.559 --> 02:33:09.000
not understand. I said, my
Lord, what shall be the end of

1766
02:33:09.040 --> 02:33:11.120
these things? Go your way?
The words are closed up and sealed till

1767
02:33:11.200 --> 02:33:15.479
the end of time. Many will
be purified and made white, redefined.

1768
02:33:15.920 --> 02:33:20.559
The wicked will do wickedly. Another
wicked will understanding why it will understand.

1769
02:33:20.639 --> 02:33:24.440
From that time the daily sacrifice would
be taken away. The abomination of desolation

1770
02:33:24.479 --> 02:33:26.840
said up, there'll be one two
hundred ninety days less as he waits.

1771
02:33:26.959 --> 02:33:33.719
Yeah, So the immediate context of
this is the abomination of desolation under Antiochus

1772
02:33:33.799 --> 02:33:39.639
epifanis then this is referred to as
another desolation. When Jesus refers to the

1773
02:33:39.639 --> 02:33:43.120
abomination of desolation, which takes place
in seventy eight in the destruction of the

1774
02:33:43.159 --> 02:33:46.399
Temple, which is what Luke twenty
one, Matthew twenty four is about.

1775
02:33:46.079 --> 02:33:52.040
And all of the not so swift
people under the Bryson Gray debate who didn't

1776
02:33:52.079 --> 02:33:54.200
understand what I was talking about when
I said Heaven Earth passed away. They

1777
02:33:54.319 --> 02:33:58.600
thought I was all talking about the
actual literal heavens and Earth passing away,

1778
02:34:00.120 --> 02:34:03.920
talking about this text, which is
what about, which is what Matthew twenty

1779
02:34:03.920 --> 02:34:07.239
four and Luke twenty one is about, which is what happened in seventy eight

1780
02:34:07.760 --> 02:34:11.879
Heavens and Earth are symbolized by the
Temple, which is which is an image

1781
02:34:11.879 --> 02:34:15.760
of heaven and Earth. When the
Temple was destroyed, that is a symbol

1782
02:34:15.879 --> 02:34:18.120
of the heavens and the Earth being
rolled up and destroyed like a scroll,

1783
02:34:18.200 --> 02:34:22.079
like a garment, like a etcetera, etcetera. It was what he was

1784
02:34:22.159 --> 02:34:26.639
once talking about that happened in seventy
eight d. That is a type a

1785
02:34:26.760 --> 02:34:31.879
cycle pattern for the end of the
world. This is why this text is

1786
02:34:31.920 --> 02:34:46.239
talking about the daily sacrifice being a
being taken away the immediate context, the

1787
02:34:46.479 --> 02:34:50.239
typological mirrored context. That's what I've
been arguing for years that people don't listen

1788
02:34:50.319 --> 02:34:54.319
they don't. They're not interested in
actually understanding what's being said. They don't

1789
02:34:54.319 --> 02:34:58.639
want to take the time to learn
this stuff. They just want to say

1790
02:34:58.760 --> 02:35:03.000
dumb crap all the time. I
believe that the consistent way to interpret these

1791
02:35:03.079 --> 02:35:07.639
passages, whether it's the Abomination of
Desolation or whether it's the Book of Revelation,

1792
02:35:07.719 --> 02:35:13.399
et cetera, is to understand these
things as having an immediate context and

1793
02:35:13.639 --> 02:35:18.920
a future mirrored fulfillment. That's the
only way that I think is consistent.

1794
02:35:20.399 --> 02:35:22.479
Now, maybe I'm wrong, I
could be wrong. I don't mind.

1795
02:35:22.719 --> 02:35:24.879
But people don't even know what I'm
talking about. Right when I mentioned this

1796
02:35:24.959 --> 02:35:31.120
stuff, They're completely lost. But
to answer your question, I believe that

1797
02:35:31.399 --> 02:35:39.680
the immediate context that is being told
to Daniel is a reference to Antiochus Epiphanies

1798
02:35:39.920 --> 02:35:45.959
what's in Maccabee's. Don't be dumb
and think I'm saying that this book is

1799
02:35:46.319 --> 02:35:48.440
written by mat I'm not saying that. Listen to what I'm saying. Daniel's

1800
02:35:48.520 --> 02:35:54.719
prophecy immediate context here, as we
see in Daniel eight and nine and ten

1801
02:35:54.760 --> 02:36:01.799
and eleven are also about Antiochus Epiphanes. That's what the book of Maccabe's about.

1802
02:36:01.799 --> 02:36:07.840
Go Rebaccabees. That's not the only
fulfillment. The Bible constantly refers to

1803
02:36:09.079 --> 02:36:16.959
cycles of fulfillments, what I call
a mirrored sense, where this is also

1804
02:36:16.040 --> 02:36:22.440
fulfilled in seventy eighty. That's why
Jesus uses the terminology from Daniel. The

1805
02:36:22.600 --> 02:36:28.319
terminology is not only about the end
end end of the world. And if

1806
02:36:28.319 --> 02:36:31.239
you knew the Fathers, you would
know that, especially almost all the Eastern

1807
02:36:31.319 --> 02:36:37.079
Fathers, they also teach pretorism.
Go learn what the words mean. Not

1808
02:36:37.280 --> 02:36:41.079
you to the super chat guy some
about the low i Q. Bryson audience,

1809
02:36:41.120 --> 02:36:50.879
who had no idea what I was
talking about. It's Maccabee's also seventy

1810
02:36:50.920 --> 02:36:56.079
eighty. And at the end of
the world. How exactly this shakes out.

1811
02:36:56.120 --> 02:36:58.559
At the end of the world,
I don't know. There could be

1812
02:36:58.600 --> 02:37:03.639
a new temple, maybe it's spiritually
speaking, the church apostetizing. There's various

1813
02:37:03.680 --> 02:37:07.360
options there. But I do think
that my understanding, my reading of this

1814
02:37:09.159 --> 02:37:13.719
harmonizes this mirrored view and all of
the texts that cover this topic. So

1815
02:37:15.000 --> 02:37:16.319
anyway, but I've done many videos, and you can go watch those old

1816
02:37:16.360 --> 02:37:20.799
videos I've done that, Go watch
my Antichrist video, and go watch my

1817
02:37:20.879 --> 02:37:24.600
Beast System video Temple hat Girl twenty
dollars. Many a Cumanist clerics take place

1818
02:37:24.799 --> 02:37:31.120
in an agenda that is spiously malicious. Why not be an executive at Chase

1819
02:37:31.239 --> 02:37:35.399
Bank? Why do they want to
hurt other people? Well, I think

1820
02:37:35.399 --> 02:37:39.000
a lot of people, you know, when they go into clerical life or

1821
02:37:39.040 --> 02:37:43.239
whatever, they may start out sincere
and you know, they don't know how

1822
02:37:43.280 --> 02:37:46.760
the world's really run. So by
the time they are raised to being ecomunical

1823
02:37:46.840 --> 02:37:50.360
patriarch and then they find out the
hard way how the world really runs,

1824
02:37:50.520 --> 02:37:56.360
with intelligence operations and compromise and you
know the kind of stuff that is in

1825
02:37:56.559 --> 02:38:03.799
my publishers famous books Whitney Webbs two
books on blackmail and get those from Trying

1826
02:38:03.920 --> 02:38:07.120
Day. You know, people don't
know that this is how the world works,

1827
02:38:07.159 --> 02:38:11.360
so they go into this. By
the time they're I don't know,

1828
02:38:11.520 --> 02:38:13.719
fifty sixty seventy, they get compromise
and they find out a hard way how

1829
02:38:13.719 --> 02:38:20.760
it works. So that's so maybe
not everybody is maliciously trying to undermine the

1830
02:38:20.879 --> 02:38:24.239
church. They just you know,
find out the hard way, and then

1831
02:38:24.360 --> 02:38:28.120
some people are malicious. Mozo's Balls
fifteen dollars. Can you discuss the World

1832
02:38:28.120 --> 02:38:35.360
Council Churches, I Oral Orthodoxy and
the genuine Orthodox. I've done many talks.

1833
02:38:35.520 --> 02:38:39.680
Go watch David's videos on the true
Orthodox. Neil five dollars. Visit

1834
02:38:39.760 --> 02:38:45.319
a ro Corps church for the first
time east of nash Vegas. I sent

1835
02:38:45.520 --> 02:38:50.879
questions and the priest said that you're
a great guy. Well that's great to

1836
02:38:50.920 --> 02:38:54.200
hear. I appreciate that. Willie
Wonka three dollars. What's your favorite candy?

1837
02:38:54.440 --> 02:38:58.680
I'm not really eat candy, so
to addict three dollars, but if

1838
02:38:58.719 --> 02:39:01.520
I did eat candy, it would
be the Willy Wonka candy where he throws

1839
02:39:01.639 --> 02:39:07.360
boots into the candy solo attic three
dollars. What are the two books next

1840
02:39:07.479 --> 02:39:13.200
to the Blue Books next to the
Vatican Two? These are the Tanner and

1841
02:39:13.280 --> 02:39:20.319
Alberigo Official like the most scholarly Roman
Catholic production of all the decrees of the

1842
02:39:20.360 --> 02:39:31.680
Ecumenical Councils. So if you wanted
to in an academic setting site the Ecumenical

1843
02:39:31.760 --> 02:39:37.200
Councils from a Roman Catholic perspective,
you would want to site Tanner and Albertigo

1844
02:39:39.639 --> 02:39:46.360
and really nice books. I got
these maybe ten years ago, and they

1845
02:39:46.399 --> 02:39:56.079
were pretty expensive, So that's what
this is. Yeah, these would be

1846
02:39:56.239 --> 02:40:01.760
kind of normative in Roman Catholic academia
circles. So that's what those two blue

1847
02:40:01.760 --> 02:40:07.360
books are. R. L.
Stein goose Bumps, which goose Bumps scary

1848
02:40:07.440 --> 02:40:13.520
the most? All the ones by
Stephan King or else Stein. Have you

1849
02:40:13.600 --> 02:40:18.920
heard of Stephen King? You might
check out his stuff sometimes. Chase Haggard,

1850
02:40:18.959 --> 02:40:22.040
I've never heard of this guy.
Three dollars. What about the latest

1851
02:40:22.520 --> 02:40:28.680
push by ben Cabe of Theoria against
Father Trenim and to promote Lofton. Yeah,

1852
02:40:28.680 --> 02:40:31.879
I thought that was funny. So
for those that don't know, avoid

1853
02:40:33.040 --> 02:40:37.200
Theoria, avoid ben Cabe. He
put out a short pushing the idea of

1854
02:40:37.559 --> 02:40:43.079
a Pacatastasius in an origin as sense, as if that this is a possible

1855
02:40:43.760 --> 02:40:48.639
reading in the Orthodox view, when
this has been condemned explicitly by Saint Sophronius

1856
02:40:48.760 --> 02:40:54.559
in his confession at the sixth Council. Read the Confession of Patriarch Sophronius accepted

1857
02:40:54.600 --> 02:40:58.399
by the sixth Council. There's a
four page condemnation of the entire system of

1858
02:40:58.479 --> 02:41:05.799
origin, and so that is accepted
at the sixth Council. And the mere

1859
02:41:05.920 --> 02:41:11.719
fact that Ben Cabe pushes Michael Lofton
against Josiah Trenam should tell you everything,

1860
02:41:13.280 --> 02:41:15.239
guys, if you would hit like
and share, thank you so much a

1861
02:41:15.280 --> 02:41:18.360
lot of fun today. Is there
anybody else on here? We got a

1862
02:41:18.399 --> 02:41:24.360
couple more haters? Haters? Jorgan
Jrgan Are you a hater? Before I

1863
02:41:24.440 --> 02:41:31.360
close it out? What's up?
Jorgan? You're actually this is a sort

1864
02:41:31.399 --> 02:41:33.840
of sock com But I used to
be a Muslim way back in the day,

1865
02:41:35.840 --> 02:41:39.120
and your videos we're actually instrumental in
helping me reshortsodoxy. Oh wow,

1866
02:41:39.840 --> 02:41:45.360
that's cool. So it's it's not
more so a debate. But I did

1867
02:41:45.479 --> 02:41:50.319
have some questions about Islam because you've
mentioned it oftentimes and I've kind of seen

1868
02:41:50.440 --> 02:41:54.440
Will saying the Koran too that I've
seen a lot of many key and influence

1869
02:41:54.959 --> 02:42:00.479
in the Koran that makes sense.
So I was seeing if if there's any

1870
02:42:00.520 --> 02:42:03.680
other resources that I can look into, twelve more into this because there's a

1871
02:42:03.760 --> 02:42:07.040
lot of weird there. Relies on
a lot of nastic texts, and you

1872
02:42:07.079 --> 02:42:13.239
were talking about the was it that
Pikachu Pikachu today who were talking about the

1873
02:42:13.280 --> 02:42:16.639
gnostic texts to that? Well,
hold on, I don't I don't hold

1874
02:42:16.680 --> 02:42:20.399
on off the top of my head. I don't know about specifically Gnostic texts.

1875
02:42:20.559 --> 02:42:28.079
So there are some pseudopographa and uh, you know, apocryphal texts like

1876
02:42:28.680 --> 02:42:35.280
Cave of Treasures, Adam and Eve
text. The Life of Abraham, I

1877
02:42:35.399 --> 02:42:41.440
think is one of seven sleeper story
proto Evangelium of James. But there are

1878
02:42:41.559 --> 02:42:46.280
probably others that I'm not aware of. So it could be that there's specific

1879
02:42:46.280 --> 02:42:50.639
stories from Nastic texts, but I
don't know about that. And that's just

1880
02:42:50.040 --> 02:42:52.680
that's just because I don't know.
I don't know everything about old you know,

1881
02:42:52.760 --> 02:42:56.879
Islamic studies. Yeah, because I've
been doing It's like I've been doing

1882
02:42:56.920 --> 02:43:03.959
it well to to starry Orthodoxy.
I spent about a year probably studying from

1883
02:43:03.000 --> 02:43:07.360
the Orthodox study Bible, and I've
been trying to study the Koran from like

1884
02:43:07.399 --> 02:43:15.319
an Orthodox perspective too. They site
the story from I think it's a constable

1885
02:43:15.399 --> 02:43:18.840
Thomasy and phisical gospel of Thomas of
Christ breathing life into a clay bird.

1886
02:43:20.079 --> 02:43:22.360
Oh that okay, okay, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, okay,

1887
02:43:22.399 --> 02:43:26.559
there you go. Hold on now, No, no, rid Von

1888
02:43:26.680 --> 02:43:33.280
showed that that's from the the Infancy
Gospels and that might that might be a

1889
02:43:33.399 --> 02:43:37.200
Gnostic text. Yeah, exactly,
Okay, good point, that's your story.

1890
02:43:37.440 --> 02:43:43.200
I actually seeing Ridvan's video too.
But he Karan also talks about how

1891
02:43:43.479 --> 02:43:48.120
Solomon ordered the demons to build the
Temple of Yes. That that's I brought

1892
02:43:48.159 --> 02:43:52.559
that up in the ki get you
debate. I think, yeah, I

1893
02:43:52.639 --> 02:43:54.040
think you brushed it off too,
and it was it was kind of hilarious

1894
02:43:54.079 --> 02:43:58.319
that he just brushes that off.
It's like it's completely preserved. Right.

1895
02:43:58.840 --> 02:44:09.000
Well, so that is mentioned I
think by uh uh Josepha's, but I'm

1896
02:44:09.040 --> 02:44:15.280
not sure where that story comes from
because Josephas mentions the pretty sure I'm going

1897
02:44:15.280 --> 02:44:16.520
from her. I haven't looked at
Joseph's a long time, but I'm pretty

1898
02:44:16.520 --> 02:44:22.440
sure that there's the story that Solomon
has a magical ring. I can't remember.

1899
02:44:22.520 --> 02:44:26.399
I can't remember if Josepha's mentions angels
or gen but I think he does.

1900
02:44:28.200 --> 02:44:33.120
So this is like an older,
you know, Jewish tale. It

1901
02:44:33.319 --> 02:44:35.840
is it is, it is.
It's uh because I was trying to read

1902
02:44:35.920 --> 02:44:39.079
It's like, where did the Koran
get this? Because the Koran I read

1903
02:44:39.200 --> 02:44:45.440
is like the one of the official
English translations that the Souadias used before they

1904
02:44:46.319 --> 02:44:50.360
use this one. It's uh,
forget forget that. The author is I'll

1905
02:44:50.360 --> 02:44:58.239
treat it in a comment maybe later, but he's he's the Muslim commentator compiling

1906
02:44:58.319 --> 02:45:03.600
that Korans tights it from the Apocalypse
of Abraham. Okay, that makes sense.

1907
02:45:05.639 --> 02:45:09.120
That might have been the source of
just I don't know the day,

1908
02:45:09.239 --> 02:45:11.399
but I did find this in Josepha's
and it surprised me that it was in

1909
02:45:11.440 --> 02:45:16.360
there. And by the way,
this is the story that in the Renaissance,

1910
02:45:16.520 --> 02:45:20.280
a bunch of the Renaissance occultists they
crib that. They crib that story

1911
02:45:22.079 --> 02:45:28.360
and that became the basis for Solomonic
Keys of Solomon magic in the Renaissance.

1912
02:45:31.319 --> 02:45:35.360
There's a lot of where Chrome kind
of relies on magic. Two, there's

1913
02:45:35.440 --> 02:45:43.440
a specific instance where they talk about
it's like in Islamic angelology, is angels

1914
02:45:43.520 --> 02:45:46.840
do not have their own free will, they're completely bound by God. And

1915
02:45:46.879 --> 02:45:52.319
then the crime will tell stories how
fault and angels introduced magic and sorcery to

1916
02:45:52.879 --> 02:46:00.479
ancient Arab kingdom kingdoms. And I
noticed that they always reference to cities Harut

1917
02:46:00.600 --> 02:46:05.520
and Marut to an Arabic and they
kind of seem like Haruvtaz and Emeritag,

1918
02:46:05.600 --> 02:46:13.319
which are two angels and zoroastrianison.
Interesting. Yeah, I didn't I didn't

1919
02:46:13.319 --> 02:46:20.559
know that. Yeah, it's okay, it's still kind of see similarities between

1920
02:46:20.719 --> 02:46:24.799
Mani and Mohammad. Yeah, and
interesting. Are there any texts which goes

1921
02:46:24.840 --> 02:46:31.559
deeper into this. I don't doubt
that there are similarities there, but I

1922
02:46:31.600 --> 02:46:33.639
don't know enough to know if there's
I mean, what the what the source

1923
02:46:33.799 --> 02:46:39.479
the academic source would be defined that
kind of stuff. I'll tell you who

1924
02:46:39.559 --> 02:46:43.479
who you should ask? Ask either
Rid Vaughan, Sam Shumun or Lewis and

1925
02:46:43.600 --> 02:46:48.399
kai Orthoxhahaa. They would know interesting. Yeah. Yeah. By the way,

1926
02:46:48.920 --> 02:46:56.879
it looks like Apocalypse of Abraham is
just general scholar dated to be around

1927
02:46:56.600 --> 02:47:01.559
seventy eight D, so that would
probably be that's very likely then that that

1928
02:47:01.680 --> 02:47:07.600
might be what just see fist is
polling from. Yeah, because a lot

1929
02:47:07.639 --> 02:47:18.479
of a lot of youn Islamic sources
were If you see how apostates, well

1930
02:47:18.559 --> 02:47:22.200
not apostate, heretical sex or fin
chanities they migrated towards that era, you

1931
02:47:22.239 --> 02:47:28.639
would probably assume the Mama's a lot
of Mama's biblical knowledge came from heretical sex

1932
02:47:28.760 --> 02:47:31.280
around that time. Well, even
even John Damascus says that even John,

1933
02:47:33.079 --> 02:47:35.920
Yeah, even John Damascus says,
who was one of the first Christian apologists

1934
02:47:35.959 --> 02:47:41.079
writing about Islam, the Hagarenes,
even he even he says that it was

1935
02:47:41.360 --> 02:47:48.639
Aran and Nestorian theology that influenced Mohammad. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen a

1936
02:47:48.719 --> 02:47:54.360
lot of hits and so that it's
a lot. I don't know if you

1937
02:47:54.680 --> 02:47:58.200
passed him one. That one on
one point where the Koran literally gets a

1938
02:47:58.280 --> 02:48:01.319
trinity wrong. It says the trinity
is the father's married. Yeah, I

1939
02:48:01.360 --> 02:48:07.760
know that Kai made a video on
this, the Orthodox Jahada, that was

1940
02:48:07.760 --> 02:48:09.040
one of the first videos they put
up. It's really good. But yeah,

1941
02:48:09.040 --> 02:48:13.040
he covered it. I think I'm
watching that too. Yeah, it's

1942
02:48:13.319 --> 02:48:16.959
a lot, a lot of and
I found it really interesting because I've talked

1943
02:48:16.959 --> 02:48:20.000
to a lot of him on this
cholers too and trying to get trying to

1944
02:48:20.040 --> 02:48:24.239
get them pain down on this theology
too. They always do this kind of

1945
02:48:24.479 --> 02:48:30.079
sleight of hand where they'll just appeal
to academic scholars as will be of consensus,

1946
02:48:30.200 --> 02:48:33.000
like oh the academic sorrys did this, and the textual criticism, yeah,

1947
02:48:33.040 --> 02:48:37.200
you know why they do that,
because you know why they do that,

1948
02:48:37.559 --> 02:48:41.760
because they do not have a theological
basis of defending the Koran. Well

1949
02:48:41.920 --> 02:48:46.719
that, but they also don't know
what fallacies are. So I mean,

1950
02:48:46.760 --> 02:48:48.520
if you know, if you watch
the Hokiki debate, like I called out

1951
02:48:48.559 --> 02:48:50.719
three d of fallacies and he didn't
even know what I was talking about.

1952
02:48:50.760 --> 02:48:56.280
But there is for those in the
audience, there's the video that Kai made

1953
02:48:56.159 --> 02:49:00.799
like no, this is a new
one. Well, this is a newer

1954
02:49:00.879 --> 02:49:03.319
one, but it's good. It's
called the Chronic Trinity Muslims don't want you

1955
02:49:03.360 --> 02:49:07.600
to know about. There's another one. He made an old one here it

1956
02:49:07.719 --> 02:49:13.360
is the chronic Trinity is Allah,
Jesus and Mary. And here's that stream

1957
02:49:13.479 --> 02:49:16.079
for those that are interested. If
you want to see that, go ahead.

1958
02:49:16.399 --> 02:49:18.239
I gotta go pretty soon. Anything. I just want to leave us

1959
02:49:18.239 --> 02:49:24.600
with no no, that that's pretty
interesting. But I would say it's if

1960
02:49:24.040 --> 02:49:28.319
any Muslims do still wants who just
see it's like, oh you know,

1961
02:49:28.559 --> 02:49:33.360
maybe I'm talking on So I encourage
anyone to literally just read like any efficient

1962
02:49:33.399 --> 02:49:39.319
translation of the Koran, and they
will see how many inconsistencies comes up with

1963
02:49:39.440 --> 02:49:43.200
and they cannot answer basic questions.
Yeah, exactly, And I think that's

1964
02:49:43.440 --> 02:49:48.399
what I was really trying to convey
in the Kikachu debate, was the point

1965
02:49:48.479 --> 02:49:52.920
about, you know, the Kuran
relying on prior revelation and then telling you

1966
02:49:54.120 --> 02:49:56.399
that you can't. You can go
to that prior revelation, but when you

1967
02:49:56.520 --> 02:50:01.440
do, you only read it through
what the Ron says its prior revelation.

1968
02:50:01.799 --> 02:50:07.120
But that's a circle. So exactly, And just one last before I log

1969
02:50:07.280 --> 02:50:09.000
off now and I'll let you be. It's the one point I think you

1970
02:50:09.200 --> 02:50:15.799
and raise it yourself. It's changing
the Kebla from Jerusalem to Mecca. So

1971
02:50:16.120 --> 02:50:20.479
wait a second. In the Kuran's
supposed to be the de facto final revelation

1972
02:50:20.159 --> 02:50:26.639
to humanity, but there's celebradations to
it, so as I am I eternally

1973
02:50:26.760 --> 02:50:31.479
keeping the commandment to create a Jerusalem
or to Mecca. So there's what's a

1974
02:50:31.559 --> 02:50:35.239
distinction with that. I thought all
laws thoughts are eternal and supposed to before

1975
02:50:35.680 --> 02:50:41.719
all eternity. Yeah, I think
the speech of a law, the thoughts

1976
02:50:41.760 --> 02:50:45.079
of a law, those are good
arguments if you get into that. A

1977
02:50:45.159 --> 02:50:48.040
lot of them don't get that sophisticated, but if you can get into that

1978
02:50:48.239 --> 02:50:50.680
you can really pin them down.
Those are great points. Thank you for

1979
02:50:50.760 --> 02:50:52.120
that. I gotta go though.
We got one last super chat here from

1980
02:50:52.200 --> 02:50:56.200
Joseph the Slow, Jay, I
did your stuff. I want to give

1981
02:50:56.200 --> 02:51:01.079
a shout out or point this out. Gavin Ortland at a recent video denying

1982
02:51:01.239 --> 02:51:07.719
I guess episode succession erin Ais and
Ertolian live one hundred years after Jerome.

1983
02:51:09.159 --> 02:51:16.639
Wait, Gavin Ortland thinks that urinais
and Ertollian or a hundred years after Jerome.

1984
02:51:16.680 --> 02:51:20.520
So why has anybody listened to Gavin
Ortland. It's gets ridiculous now.

1985
02:51:20.559 --> 02:51:24.879
I don't know if he says that
that's what Joseph the Slow in his super

1986
02:51:24.000 --> 02:51:30.360
chat is saying that Ortland says,
which is laughable and shows that these I

1987
02:51:30.440 --> 02:51:33.040
mean that would be that should end
that dude as an apologist. If he

1988
02:51:33.120 --> 02:51:41.399
said that, I'm gonna read his
quote explicit. I don't follow Gavin Ortlands.

1989
02:51:41.399 --> 02:51:43.959
I don't know what he said,
but I want this out there.

1990
02:51:45.280 --> 02:51:52.479
In his recent video critiquing Epistolic succession, Gavin Ortland says Iranais and Tertulian are

1991
02:51:52.559 --> 02:51:58.840
one hundred years after Jerome, and
we're in a highly polemical context, and

1992
02:51:58.959 --> 02:52:01.760
this motivated them to you for absolute
succession. And well, I mean this

1993
02:52:01.879 --> 02:52:05.479
is just like I hope that is
true because that should end that dude.

1994
02:52:05.639 --> 02:52:11.159
AC five dollars, Jay, you
won't debate the godbody five percent Muslim at

1995
02:52:11.200 --> 02:52:15.360
my corner store, kick in the
knowledge, he's the hidden A mom,

1996
02:52:16.559 --> 02:52:18.200
Yeah, I won't. They always
say whenever after you debate the Muslim,

1997
02:52:18.200 --> 02:52:20.680
ever say yeah, but you won't
debate the real Muslim who's the hidden.

1998
02:52:22.040 --> 02:52:28.520
It's just a joke. He did
his jail house scholarship. He straight shook.

1999
02:52:30.520 --> 02:52:33.840
Thank you for that, Ac.
Thank you guys, Hopefully you enjoyed

2000
02:52:33.920 --> 02:52:35.600
today's show. People have said I
was being mean or not. I wasn't

2001
02:52:35.600 --> 02:52:43.319
being mean. As I explained,
the delay on Twitter spaces when people are

2002
02:52:43.360 --> 02:52:46.680
on cell phones is annoying because they
can't hear me talking to them and they

2003
02:52:46.760 --> 02:52:50.520
just keep talking and like thirty seconds
later they hear me talking. So I

2004
02:52:50.559 --> 02:52:54.639
wasn't being mean to anybody. But
in regard to the evangelical dude and the

2005
02:52:54.719 --> 02:52:58.959
Lutheran dude, I wasn't being mean. They literally said what I said.

2006
02:52:58.000 --> 02:52:58.520
They were saying