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Ap White dropped out of college three
times before finally going back and finishing his

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degree. And then he got what
every college graduate wants, a cushy,

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six figure a year job with benefits. But there was only one problem.

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He really didn't like the job,
so he chucked it all the way to

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go out and become a professional gambler. How did that work out for him

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now, a few years down the
road, does he regret the decision or

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does he think he made the right
choice. This is Life is a Gamble?

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Episode two. My guest ap White. Okay, well, welcome ap

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White to Life is a Gamble.
Hey, Richard, thanks for having me.

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Glad to be here. Yeah,
absolutely, So I want to start

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with you have this six figure your
job, and you decide to chuck it

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all away and go out and become
a professional gambler. So tell me how

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that happened. Sure, so,
Well, I was doing a piece Oncetime.

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I was about just about twenty one
years old, just started counting and

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stuff, and I just remember ever
since I was eighteen, you know,

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I dropped out of school like three
times, first because I got addicted to

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World War craft, and then every
time it was just it was so I

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couldn't pay attention to anything. Everything
was so boring. Eventually, I finished

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school with a supply chain management degree. And even then the only reason I

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got past that is because I had
a cool professor and he would let me

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write all of my papers about AP. I just kind of tied it into

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supply chain and he'd let me do
it and it was great. So wait,

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wait before you go on, when
you say AP, which stands for

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advantage play for those of our listeners, was this something more than just counting

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cards or was or was that specifically
what you were doing? So yeah,

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no, this was pretty early on. I kind of started figuring out slot

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machines on my own before I before
I learned about them online. Like I

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figured out like Golden Egypt and like
just some simple slot machines, and I

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thought that was really cool that you
could beat slot machines. This was probably

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back in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, and so no, I kind of

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I was talking about that to my
classmates, to my professor because I thought

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that was much more interesting. Agreed, So you were doing slot machines and

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you got interested in counting cards.
Yeah, well it was the opposite order.

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So I was counting cards, and
then when I would wong out,

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well actually at my table that I
would count in, I would it was

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across from a golden Egypt, and
I would just see people play it and

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I thought like, oh, that
looks like something's left behind. And sure

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enough, you know, I just
go up and I found it. And

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then I just walk around the casino
and look for machines like that. Okay,

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But then, so you have this
six figure a year job. Yeah,

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so I have this job in management. And you know, I've worked

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half a dozen jobs in my life
and I've just never been happy at all

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of them. And I always remember
thinking, ever since I was eighteen,

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the original plan was go to school, be a pharmacist, and then I'd

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be happy because that seemed like a
pretty quick way. Then I get the

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six figure job, and I just
hated it. I remember I was in

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a corporate zoom training and the proctor
of the class basically made us go around

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in a circle and like just made
us jerk off the company. We all

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had to go around and say great
things about it, and I just remember

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in that moment being so angry at
myself for allowing myself to be in that

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position. I just hated it.
And when that happened, I remembered to

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our ex Gambles Gambling with an Edge
interview when she talked about how she had

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a six figure dealing job and she
hated it too, and she was like,

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if I could just quit and just
make fifty thousand a year, I

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would just be so much happier doing
that. And I had the exact same

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thought. I was like, I
don't care if I have to go grind

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on the road and make fifty sixty
k a year, I would just be

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way happier doing that than working this
job. So I am a big proponent

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of quitting. You know, I
think life is too short to work at

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things where you're miserable. But still, this was an incredible risk, right,

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Okay, so yeah, let me
talk about some of the catalysts that

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really propelled me to quit the job. So I always wanted to quit,

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but I never really had the courage
to do it. And I talked to

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a lot of people in the discord
about it, and I'd always get mixed

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signals like, oh, you know, that's a tough spot because you have

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a really good job. I don't
know if I would do that and so

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I was always on the fence about
it. Then I had a classmate of

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mine get diagnosed with a really rare
type of cancer and die, and that

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kind of just made me realize like
my mortality, and I was like,

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well, I just don't want to
die being miserable. And I remember reading

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a study done on people in hospice
and like their number one regret in life,

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the most common regret life was like
not living a life true to yourself,

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something along those lines, and that
just really struck with me when my

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classmate died. And then the final
thing that really pushed me though, is

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one night I was in a discord
with a guy in the advantage plate community

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that I respect more than anybody,
and when I asked him what he thought

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I should do, he didn't hesitate. He didn't say that was a tough

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situation. You said, yeah,
quit, Life's too short to do something.

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You hate Richard for that advice.
I am eternally grateful to you,

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because that really was the Next day
after I heard that from you, I

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went and told my boss I was
planning on quitting. Oh wow, I

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had no idea when I asked you
to come on here, I had no

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idea that that was the case.
But you know, I have to tell

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you. I was a blackjack dealer
and I had joined a team and started

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counting cards and I was making more
money playing than I was dealing. But

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I was afraid to quit the job
because I had two houses and two mortgages.

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And I was talking to a pit
boss, a guy we used to

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call him Glenn Greyhound Gordon because he's
at the dogs, and I was talking

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to him about it, and he
was like, are you out of your

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mind? Quit the job. He
was like, you know, if if

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if everything goes to hell in a
handbasket, you can always get another job.

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And I was like, you know
what, You're right, and I

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went and quit the job. So
well that that's great. So okay,

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So now, first of all,
how old are you at this point when

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I quit? Yeah, I'm twenty
five years old. And did you have

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a wife or a girlfriend or I
had a girlfriend at the time, but

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it was a long distance relationship,
so everything was just over FaceTime. Okay,

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So so kind of her opinion of
it, probably wasn't that crucial for

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you, right, uh No,
But she wasn't exactly supportive. Nobody in

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my life was actually supportive of it. None of my friends, none of

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my family. I was actually just
recently at a party for my family and

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one of my aunts told me,
Wow, well you proved us all wrong

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because we all thought you were gonna
be homeless. Okay, so what happens

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now? You go out and did
you have a team or anything, or

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you're just a solo player? What
happened? I didn't have it. When

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I really decided I was going to
commit to it, I went to RX

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Gamble's whole card class in Vegas,
and that was really the first time I

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made any sort of a network.
I met some big names in the community.

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And actually a funny story too,
is when I got there, a

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guy knew me. I did not
know him, but I get there,

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he looks at me and he goes, hey, you're my full legal name,

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and my mouth just dropped. I
said, I thought maybe I was

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like famous somehow, and I'm like, how do you know that? He

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goes, we played together on a
double decked table and high limit and you

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were playing raided and I saw your
name and that was like a year ago.

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I've been backed off for a year
from that place. So I thought

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this guy was a creep, but
he turned he's like one of my really

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good friends. Now. Wow,
So when you first went out playing,

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you were playing raided. I was
part of the reason for this place is

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they had really good I was using
a small spread and they part of the

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ev was coming from a really good
free play. Ah okay, And so

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now how long ago was this,
by the way, that you quit the

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job? Just about a little over
a year. Oh, it's only been

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a year. And so how is
the first year gone? Good? I'm

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gonna be crossing the six figure mark
for this year, so halfway through the

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year I'll be closing in on six
figures soon. Wow. So doing better

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than the job that you left I
am. Yeah, that's great. So

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you had an incident that came up
at the Palms? Yeah? Should we

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name the casino? Is that all
right? Yeah? Yeah, it's I

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guess it's part of the story,
so we can name the casino. So

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it was at the Palms, and
it actually came about because I was This

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is all thanks to gambling with an
edge. Gambling with an Edge has just

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been the biggest influence on my life. It's been like all the gambling education

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I've had. So again, thank
you to you and Bob Dancer, if

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you're listening, thank you anyways.
But I was listening and I'm going to

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RX Gamble's Whole Card Class because I
heard about it in Gambling in an Edge.

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And then I'm listening to an episode
with Anthony Curtis and he's describing how

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the Palms just reopened and they have
this double dock game with amazing rules,

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and I plugged it into Wizard of
Outs and it was like one tenth of

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a percent disadvantage. He was wrong
about one thing. There was no surrender

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on it, so it was really
like a point two six but still great

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game. And I needed a home
base in Vegas because I didn't have comp

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rooms anywhere yet. So I was
like, okay, well, when I

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go to this class, i'll go
build up some comp rooms on this double

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deck and it'll be great. So
I go there and immediately this pit bop

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starts flirting with me pretty heavily,
and at first I'm just thinking, I

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don't think anything of it. I'm
like, you know, she's just being

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nice, she's just being a pit
boss. That's her job. But then

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after a few hours of playoff host
comes over and he introduces himself to me.

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He's just like, you know,
if there's anything you need, let

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me know. And I'm like,
okay, cool, and I'm spreading mind

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you one to two and this isn't
in high limit, so it's one hundred

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to two hundred. I'm just trying
to keep a really really small spread to

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get some cops. Later in the
trip, I go to the host and

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the Palms has a suite with a
movie theater in an I'm like, that

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is so cool. So I go
up to him and I'm like, you

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know, I know I don't qualify
for this, but what kind of action

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do you need to see to get
something like that? And he goes,

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you need about a theoretical of seven
thousand a day, and he goes you

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should be there, and then I'm
like okay, great. So oh and

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then he came back later when I
was only betting black, and the same

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pit boss he was flirting with me
goes, oh, you were betting different

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colors earlier, and the only other
color on the table or like the purple

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and the whatever the thousand dollars chips
were orange, I think, so I

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was like, wow, she must
have rated me super Maybe she wrote it

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down as a thousand instead of a
honey, that's the only thing I can

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think of. But even then,
a thousand bucks a hand on that game

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for a couple hours, I still
don't think that would warrant a seven thousand

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dollars theoretical No, yeah, yeah. So I go home after the class

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and I start getting mail from the
Palms. Pretty soon I'm getting like two

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thousand dollars two or three times a
month in promo chips, and then they're

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sending me just random stuff like a
thousand Hoar Macy's gift card, a thousand

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dollars Southwest gift card. I'm like, great, let me go back,

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and I text the host and I
say, hey, can you set me

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up in this suite with the movie
theater And he goes, yeah, no

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issue. So yeah, So I
tell some friends. I'm like, hey,

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I'm gonna have this giant sweep flying
to Vegas, will have a good

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time. So I go back and
I'm the same plan, just gonna keep

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a small spread and get these promo
chips and hopefully get them again in the

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future and have a good trip.
So I show back up to the Palms

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and I I go there and I
check into my suite and they say,

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oh, your sweet's not ready yet, but we're gonna put you up in

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this other theme suite. It's giant. It's great. I'm like cool.

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I get up there and it's like
Barbie themed. Everything's pink, the chairs,

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the couches, the rugs. It
was really weird, but it was

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huge, two thousand score feet.
I have a private butler service, so

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it's great. So I go down. I'm spreading my one to two and

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my host comes up to me and
I'm like, hey, do you think

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I could have a you know,
a comp to the steakhouse? And he

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goes, yeah, no issue,
whatever you want. So I look at

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the menu and there's a way Goo
steak. I've never had Waygoo before.

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I'm like, let me try.
That says it's one hundred dollars on the

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menu. I call I text my
butler. I'm like, hey, I

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want this Waygoo steak in a bottle
of wine. The wine was like one

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hundred bucks too. He's text me
a separate menu and he goes, Vince,

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which Way Goo would you like?
And I'm just a dump kid.

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And you know how like they have
enhancements on steaks like you can add a

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crust or a sauce for an additional
charge. I thought that's what he sent

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me because it was very blurry,
and I thought it so it said like

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a forty two Cowboy Ribby or something
forty two Cowboy raby, and I thought

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00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,320
it said fifty euros. I thought
it was a little e for euros,

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and then fifty. I don't know
why it would be in euros. I'm

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just dumb. So I'm like,
that one, please. The butler brings

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it up in the wine to my
room. They like throw a bib over

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00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,240
me and like make up my table
and stuff, and I sign a receipt

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for two hundred some odd dollars.
I'm like, all right, that sounds

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right. Eat my steak, go
to bed, and while I'm laying in

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bed, the butler text me,
can I come clean up your room?

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So he comes in while I'm in
bed, and he's like he does everything

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for me, but tuck me in. Basically, it was great. And

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the next morning I go on my
TV and you can look at your room

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charges, and I look at my
room charges and it's twelve hundred dollars and

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I'm like, what did I charge? I didn't do anything. All I

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had was the wine in the steak, and the wine didn't get me that

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drunk. So I look again at
the menu that the butler sent me,

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and I zoom in real horror,
and I'm like, oh, that's not

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fifty euros, that's eight hundred and
fifty dollars. So now I've got this

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twelve hundred dollar room charge and I'm
really scared that they're not going to cop

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it. So I go back downstairs
and I start spreading my one to two

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to get some more play, and
about five minutes of playing the phone rings,

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I'm the only one in high limit
and they say, sorry, surveillance

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is backing you off for suspicion of
card counting. Like, really, you're

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going to back a guy off on
full RFB for suspicion of card counting.

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You couldn't figure it out first anyway, So they backed me off. I'm

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like, shit, that sucks.
Go upstairs about checkout time, and my

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00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,200
host texts me. He goes,
hey, sorry, VH one, the

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TV station is coming to filming your
room. I have to move you in

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a different room. I said,
okay, that's fine, whatever, and

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then I'm on the strip later that
day and I get another text from my

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00:14:48,759 --> 00:14:52,480
host and he goes, hey,
White, I heard about your back off

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00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:56,000
today. Unfortunately, I have to
cancel your room. So I lost my

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giant movie theater suite. Never got
to check into it. I had to

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text my friends and tell them to
cancel because I didn't have a big room

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big enough to accommodate us anymore.
But luckily he did still camp all my

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room charges, which was about fourteen
hundred bucks at the end of the trip.

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Oh well that's good. Yeah.
Oh and the two hundred dollars receipt

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that I signed for that was the
fee for the butlers to bring it up

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to my room. Wow. Yeah, I know. Wow, that's bizarre.

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You know I regarding them rating you
with that bizarre rating. I remember

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staying at the MGM one time and
I would come down on Sunday morning.

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I got in on Friday, and
I came down on Sunday morning to collect

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my airfare because they would reimburse my
airfare. And I go up to the

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desk and the girl brings up my
account and she says, wow, don't

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you ever sleep? And I said, what do you mean? And she

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says, well, you got in
on Friday and it says you played thirty

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three hours. I said, well, you know, I can sleep when

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i've been Now how they got thirty
three hours, I have no idea,

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00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,399
but maybe something was a two and
it looked like a twenty when they input

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00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:21,360
it into something. But yeah,
well, anyway, that's an incredible story.

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So what about the girlfriend's situation.
Are you still single? Have you

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00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:30,799
found that to be a big problem
trying to tell somebody what you do for

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00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,639
a living. So me and the
long term girlfriend broke up shortly after me

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going full time, and I didn't
meet another girl at a wedding, and

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we weren't really dating per se.
But I would take her on all these

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00:16:44,559 --> 00:16:48,279
trips with me, and she was
basically an extra players card for me.

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But we would hang out all the
time, and she was really interested in

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the job and it was great.
I could put her on machines and stuff

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00:16:55,559 --> 00:17:00,159
like that. But I really found
that it was costing me more than it

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00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,119
was worth to be with her because
and I didn't just see her as a

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00:17:03,119 --> 00:17:06,519
moneymaking opportunity. By the way,
I did like this girl. We had

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a really good chemistry. But when
I brought her along on these trips.

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I just found myself having to entertain
her more than anything, and it was

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just it was taking too much away
from my work. I really do like

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00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,400
to work. I really do like
to do advantage play things. And so

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she was really interested in the work
too, She really liked it, but

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I just it just wasn't working out. We were getting in a lot of

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00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:33,400
arguments, and that one ended probably
man. We broke up in Vegas basically

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about three months ago, and since
then, you know, I just don't

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have the time really to go out
and date. My whole life, I'm

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00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:45,759
either in a casino or I'm in
my room, like reading or something,

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So I don't really go out and
pursue that, I guess, but I'm

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getting to that age or I should
probably start. How many hours a week

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or a month do you are you
out plying between the driving and plane Probably,

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00:18:02,279 --> 00:18:06,000
I guess probably at least eighty eighty
a month, Oh no a week,

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00:18:06,279 --> 00:18:10,960
eighty hours a week, yeah,
Oh yeah. I'm just when I'm

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local or like towards my home casino, I just live in that hotel five

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00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,440
days a week and I work out
in the gym, I go to the

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00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,759
casino, and I sleep for you
know, six seven hours and that's all

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00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:29,480
I do. Wow. Wow,
Yeah, it would be uh, it'd

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00:18:29,519 --> 00:18:33,319
be an adjustment for me for sure. Wow. Well, anyway, I

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00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,599
want to thank you for doing this. You know, in this case,

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00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,160
life was a gamble that seems to
be paying off. So far, so

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00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,119
good. One more question, what
are your long term plans or do you

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00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,839
have any sure? So well,
I don't have any long term plans as

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00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,640
far as what I want to be
doing for work, But AP or any

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00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,599
job really for that matter, has
never really been like I've never wanted to

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00:18:52,599 --> 00:18:56,839
do something for a lifetime. My
goal has always been to live under my

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00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:02,359
means and invest everything I can and
then retire early and then just pursue whatever

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00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,200
I want to pursue. I could
see that being AP for a while.

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00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,640
But yeah, no long term plans
as to what I want to do.

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00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,279
And I do want to say one
more thing too. Even if you know,

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00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:17,160
AP didn't work out for me,
if all my opportunities dried out tomorrow,

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00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,519
I would still be thankful for doing
what I did, and do you,

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00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,359
Richard, and I wouldn't regret it. Even if this was a bust

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00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,839
and I'm broken a year, I'd
still be happy. Then I took this

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00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,039
risk. I took this gamble.
Wow. Well that's that's great and that

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00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,160
sounds like a perfect place to end. So thank you for doing this awesome.

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Thank you, Richard. Well that
was ap white and now just a

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00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:53,400
couple of announcements I need to make. I want to remind people to please

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00:19:53,480 --> 00:20:00,839
if you are getting this show on
the old Gambling with an Edge stream in

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00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:06,680
your podcast app, switch it over
to the news stream. Under life is

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00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:11,839
a gamble. Also, if you
liked the show, the best thing you

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00:20:11,839 --> 00:20:15,480
could do to help me out is
to write a review and tell a friend

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00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:19,920
somebody else that you think might like
the show as well. Now, stealing

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00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,240
something that we used to do on
Gambling with an Edge, I'm going to

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00:20:23,599 --> 00:20:29,720
give you a recommended this week,
and this week my recommended is a show

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00:20:29,759 --> 00:20:34,759
called The Bear. I recommended this
show back on Gambling with an Edge when

308
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:41,599
it came out and I watched its
first season, and season two just came

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00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:47,799
out and I binged all ten episodes
in two days. So it is a

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00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,480
fantastic show. I really really enjoyed
it, and I think you might too.

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00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,880
So okay, that's it for episode
number two. Hit me up let

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00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,519
me know what you think. You
can reach me at RWM on Twitter.

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00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:08,400
You can send me email at Life
is a Gamble Pod at gmail dot com

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00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,400
and I will see you next time. Bye,