WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:08.839 You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting 2 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:14.839 podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, 3 00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:18.920 Episode number three sixty two. Don't work on your job, work on 4 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:25.800 yourself. Make yourself much more valuable to the marketplace. Jim Rohan broadcasting from 5 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:29.600 a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on that 6 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:35.039 next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business 7 00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:39.520 of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your 8 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:45.079 host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting 9 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:49.439 Podcast. I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is 10 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:56.320 sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. Now. Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof 11 00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:00.200 Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project you are and the goals of 12 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:03.799 the project you are, So we actually break it down by three categories, 13 00:01:03.879 --> 00:01:07.879 micro budget, indie film, market and studio film. There's no reason to 14 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:11.640 get coverage from a reader that's used to reading tempole movies when your movie is 15 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:15.040 going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars, and we wanted to focus 16 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:19.120 on that. At Bulletproof Script Coverage, our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, 17 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:25.359 CIA, WME, NBC, HBO, Disney, Scott Free, Warner 18 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:27.480 Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. So if you need your 19 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:36.159 screenplay or TV script covered by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot 20 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:41.680 com. Now, I know a lot of you have watched Disney Plus's show 21 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:46.599 The Mandalorian, which is a Star Wars the first Star Wars television series, 22 00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:49.239 and it was one of the biggest shows. I am a tremendous fan, 23 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.120 as many of you already know, But what I was really interested in was 24 00:01:53.359 --> 00:02:01.159 the virtual production techniques and technologies that they use and implemented to make a giant, 25 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:07.480 very big budget looking show on a budget. Now, mind you, 26 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:10.879 on a budget is relative in the Star Wars universe. But let's just say 27 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:16.000 that they were able to put together hours and hours of content for a less 28 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:23.199 budget than you would have to spend on a standard Star Wars movie. Now, 29 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:25.080 I was like, this is all great and again, you know, 30 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:30.919 just like when the t Rex showed up in Jurassic Park in nineteen ninety three. 31 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:35.080 That's really great, but how is that going to help us as independent 32 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:40.879 filmmakers. Well, today's guest is someone who is going to help you get 33 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:47.080 access to this insane technology on a budget. Now, today we are speaking 34 00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:54.039 to Renee Armador from aar Wall and ar Wall is one of the industry leaders 35 00:02:54.400 --> 00:03:00.680 in this virtual production technology. And when I saw their newest product, my 36 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:07.400 mouth dropped to the floor. They have created the ar Wall Home Studio, 37 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:12.759 which allows you, as an independent creator, as an independent filmmaker, to 38 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:19.960 use same or similar technologies to what they used on the Mandalorian at a very 39 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:25.000 very affordable price. We're talking less than the cost of a red camera. 40 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:30.560 Now, Renee and I get into all of the technology, how independent filmmakers 41 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:35.680 can use it, what it would do for your production value, How do 42 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:38.520 you get those amazing backgrounds that you're going to be able to move left and 43 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:44.599 right? I mean, is it's just an insane, insane world that we're 44 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:49.800 walking into. We are that much closer to literally just shooting on a holid 45 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:53.960 deck from Star Trek, which is basically an entire room that looks and it 46 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:59.120 feels almost like a real room, but it's all holographic. We are very 47 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:02.120 We're just getting closer and closer to eventually being able to shoot on the Holid 48 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:06.319 deck, and this technology is that next step forward. So, without any 49 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:13.840 further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Renee Almador. I'd like to welcome 50 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:15.839 to the show, Renee Amador. How are you doing, Renee? I'm 51 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:18.639 doing just fine. Thanks for having me, Alex oh brother man, thank 52 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:21.680 you for being on the show. Man, I truly appreciate I am. 53 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:24.600 I have to say before we get started, man, I am such a 54 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:30.759 fan of what you guys are doing today are It's it's mind blowing, absolutely 55 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:33.639 mind blowing. But we're going to get into all of that in this episode. 56 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:38.800 But before we start, I have to tell the story because we were 57 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:43.360 talking about it before we got on. Yes, and please tell, please 58 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:47.160 tell the audience how we know each other. Yeah, So, I mean 59 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:51.040 I think you reached out because we had some big press recently. We came 60 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:58.279 out with some big announcement recently, and just this morning, I was thinking, 61 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:00.199 Alex for our is such a familiar name. It's the type of name 62 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:03.759 you don't forget, right, So I was thinking, this sounds so familiar. 63 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:09.920 I went back to my personal email from like you know, over ten 64 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:14.560 years ago, and went and looked and put your name in and found I've 65 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:19.000 been on your newsletter since about two thousand and seven with a Nigma factory. 66 00:05:19.160 --> 00:05:25.399 And I think it was originally because you were kicking butt on the DVX one 67 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:29.120 hundred A and then the HVX two hundred and you were one of the few 68 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:32.120 people that was doing visual effects intensive stuff on those cameras, so we we 69 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:36.560 wanted to use those same cameras, so we were following you to see what 70 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:40.920 you were up to, what your workflows were, And then you came up 71 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:44.120 with a bunch of like workshops too, and I think I actually might have 72 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:47.600 purchased them. But I think the original way that I that I heard about 73 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:51.920 you is we we had a we had a couple of films go to Dragon 74 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:57.720 Calm two thousand and seven. Your your shorts were there as well. So 75 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:00.439 once I saw those, and I think we were at actually in contention against 76 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:03.279 each other, it was like you won first price, I won second price. 77 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:08.600 Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, So that's how I first learned it. 78 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:11.160 I was like, the hell, this guy, you know, why, 79 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:14.040 why why did you get first place. What the hell's going on here? 80 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:18.240 I got to watch these things exactly. That's hilarious. That's I have 81 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:25.319 an email here, first email from your newsletter June two thousand and seven. 82 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:30.040 What a blast from the past. I was when you told me this story. 83 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:32.120 I was absolutely floored because I, first of all, I can't believe 84 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:35.519 you have email from two thousand and seven, So that alone, there's issues 85 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:41.480 that you need to work out. But but that and then you read the 86 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:44.920 email was about my second film, Sin and I'll you know, hey, 87 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:46.519 guys, I want to let you know about a new film. It is 88 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:51.959 so funny how that little short film I did in two thousand and five people 89 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:57.240 still talk to me about it and still reach it like when I and it 90 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:00.120 happens more often than you would think, Like I the last thing I thought 91 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:03.079 of when when I rang in to do our interview today as we were going 92 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:05.920 to go, hey, dude, I like I remember broken, Like I 93 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:13.639 just didn't. It's hilarious. That's amazing. Yeah, it's pretty pretty amazing, 94 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:17.639 man, But thank you for sharing that insane say good stand. Just 95 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:21.240 to be clear, I'm a fan, and that's awesome. Here you know, 96 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:26.920 I'm here just to interview you. Basically, I'll come on your podcast 97 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:30.439 or anytime you like the ar podcast, anytime you want. So, how 98 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:35.279 did you get into the film business in the first place. Yeah, so 99 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:41.160 I think originally my dad, my dad wanted to be a filmmaker way back 100 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:46.079 in the seventies and ended up going into computer engineering instead. So he was 101 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:50.639 one of the top software engineers for the defense industry for about forty years. 102 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:57.959 But through that entire period, from even a young age, that spirit of 103 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:01.759 filmmaking was still inside him, and he definitely, you know, imbued my 104 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:09.160 entire upbringing, my my my media culture with that love of cinema. So, 105 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:11.639 you know, I grew up, you know, before the age of 106 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:18.519 ten watching Ballini and Kirasawa and all these intense films, just really just thinking 107 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:20.240 like, Okay, this is just this is culture, this is what art 108 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:26.199 is, not really knowing that, like it's pretty unusual to get that type 109 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:31.200 of education as a young child in cinema. So at about the age of 110 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:37.559 ten, I you know, made a pretty determined statement to my family, 111 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:41.360 like I am going to be a filmmaker. I'm going to be a director, 112 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:45.600 you know, screenwriter and make these projects do some TV do some film, 113 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:50.639 you know, just do what I can and and really I think it 114 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:56.440 was a couple of films that did that for me. Obviously, I think 115 00:08:56.519 --> 00:09:00.639 like science fiction films were pretty big for me Star Wars. But then there's 116 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:03.799 one particular which peopull my laugh at, which is in the David Lynch movie. 117 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:11.120 I happen to own that because my dad was a pretty big David Lynch 118 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:13.320 fan, and I don't think i'd seen any of the other films. It's 119 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:18.000 the first film i'd seen of his. And when I just in the first 120 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:22.639 ten minutes of that film, you see the set design and the production design 121 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:28.000 that they brought to that project, and you just think somebody's job is to 122 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:33.720 get paid to make those sets, and just to think how much fun and 123 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:39.559 how much amazing creativity goes into that type of collaboration. I thought that that's 124 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:43.480 something I have to be involved with, because you know, as a kid, 125 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:46.480 you look out into the rest of the world and you're like, who 126 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:52.519 else is approaching that level of creativity and that level of storytelling and imagination. 127 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:58.600 It's not really something that you see out in the world. We'll be right 128 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:07.320 back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. So 129 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:16.240 film for me was that moment where I realized dream and imagination and reality and 130 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:20.440 career could all come together into one package and really create something special. So 131 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:26.720 that that's how I really got started. And then just just kind of thinking 132 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:31.440 of that mentality, uh at a very young age. And then I made 133 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:35.919 my first project obviously uh for us for a high you know, trying to 134 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:41.480 uh get rid of doing homework. That it was awesome. We make a 135 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:45.519 video. We made a video. I think my first video was called Darren 136 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:48.559 Gatto. It had to be in Spanish because it was for Spanish class and 137 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.080 it was just it was basically kind of like a lost highway ripoff, like 138 00:10:54.120 --> 00:11:00.960 some weird surreal thing where people or you know, in ark lighting, looking 139 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:03.600 intense, that type of thing. And that was a lot of fun. 140 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:07.039 And one of the things that happened when I was making it is literally everyone 141 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:11.159 said to me, hey, you've done this before, Like I can tell 142 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:13.279 that you've done this before, and I would be like, never done it 143 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:18.559 before. Just watched every single behind the scenes, you know, DVD thing 144 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:20.480 that I could get my hands on. So that's how I got started. 145 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:24.960 And then in senior year of high school, I made a very popular video 146 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:31.000 called Real Ultimate Power the official Ninja movie, which was based on their website 147 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.600 called Reultimate Power dot net, which is very popular at the time, and 148 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:37.360 that got over three million views that video. This was in two thousand and 149 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:41.559 two in high school, so I personally set up the how'd you get the 150 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:46.720 views? Where were those views? Because YouTube wasn't even around yet, you're 151 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:50.000 correct. So there's two things. One is it's an adaptation of a website 152 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:56.440 into a video, which is something that hadn't really been done before. And 153 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:58.759 in fact, we found out that the only other projects who have done it 154 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:03.720 at the time with something called Undercover Brother, which I think you may remember 155 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:07.559 that was actually a website to begin with. So we were in this. 156 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:11.279 We were part of this little wave in the beginning of viral content where basically 157 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:18.159 we're adapting websites into videos. So we got linked on the front page of 158 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.320 that website and that's where a lotibility viewership came from. However, there's a 159 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:28.200 there's another component of it, which is that I was very active in four 160 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:31.879 chan in something awful dot com forms which were kind of the precursor to like 161 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:37.320 Reddit and like meme groups and that type of stuff and actually into something awful 162 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:45.279 form groups with B B YOB and F y A D. I can't say 163 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:48.679 what those mean on air, you know, there are acronyms. People who 164 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.440 know something off of will know these. I was a regular on these and 165 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.759 being able to put the content out, you know, I would be making 166 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:01.039 memes shareables. This was ten years before you know, people even knew what 167 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:03.679 a meme or shrifber was. I'll be making them for the film, for 168 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:07.600 my art, putting them on the website, being like, look at how 169 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:11.120 ridiculous this is, putting a link to the video, and that's how we 170 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:13.960 made it have That's what we reached millions of views, and that was such 171 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:20.440 a new strategy at that time. And what was funny is ten years later 172 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:24.360 I was doing exactly that for Fox, which is so weird. I was 173 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:30.080 doing exactly that for Fox actually for American Idol, for one of the top 174 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:33.960 media brands in the world. I was doing that meme and Shareble's creation with 175 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:37.720 so going full circle. But that's really how I got started. I'm doing 176 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:41.679 my own distribution, setting up the web, posting myself and then back when 177 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:46.159 you had to think about that type of stuff, and then that project was 178 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:52.639 extremely absurdist. It was very similar. I would say it was inspired kind 179 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:56.360 of like by the Christopher Guest movies, Waiting for Guffman, that type of 180 00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:01.240 stuff. I'm a really big fan of Christopher Guest, just the whole that 181 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:07.080 insane, improv energy where anything can happen, and that sensation of awkwardness. 182 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:11.559 I kind of see him almost as the spiritual successor to Felini in the way 183 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:16.879 that he casts off oddball characters that look odd and just give you a certain 184 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.919 feeling, and then they go off and do something that's highly unusual or just 185 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:28.799 highly tense, and it gives you such an intense narrative feeling in those moments. 186 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:33.840 I really enjoy that type of stuff. So if you know that about 187 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:37.320 me, a lot will make sense about my films because they tend to have 188 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:43.519 an observice, really irreverent and kind of a screwball sensibility to them. Well 189 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:48.080 that's that's awesome. And I did the same meme situation in two thousand and 190 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:50.519 four, two thousand and five when I they did my short films. It 191 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:52.720 was, I mean, that was such the wah wah west Man. It 192 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:56.360 was such the wah wah West back then, and it's hard for people to 193 00:14:56.440 --> 00:15:00.799 understand that. You know, you couldn't just put your film up like you 194 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:03.960 literally couldn't. There was no YouTube, and even YouTube sucked in two thousand 195 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:11.320 and five, like the quality was atrocious. It's the technology just wasn't there, 196 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:13.360 let alone to stream. You know, you know what I did with 197 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:18.039 send that second film your email? I actually I actually wanted to sell it 198 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.240 on iTunes, but couldn't because there was no technology to get it up on 199 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:28.919 iTunes. So what I did was I would sell the download of an iTunes 200 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:31.440 file, the m m V four file or whatever the iTunes format is. 201 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:35.919 I would sell it on my on my website and then they would click the 202 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:37.639 dollar ninety nine to rent it, and then they would double click on it 203 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:43.440 it would open up in the iTunes app back then, Yes, I mean, 204 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:46.440 I mean I think you know, remembering back at that time and how 205 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:52.480 this how difficult distribution was online. That's a genius smooth I used this. 206 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:56.360 This is really going to dated. I used something called real player. Oh 207 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:58.240 I remember, of course. Yeah, the web, the web, the 208 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:03.039 the flat it was flash based, right or close, I'm not sure. 209 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:04.559 If it was flash based, but I know you were a player or yeah, 210 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:08.080 something like that. Yeah, it was JavaScript, possibly flash or you 211 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:18.320 know, shockwave or whatever the hell they have dream exactly So yeah, I 212 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.039 mean you would have to build the actual infrastructure of distribution at that time, 213 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:26.200 and it was such a pain in the butt. And when YouTube came along, 214 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:30.879 really the original people might not realize it's the original pitch that YouTube had 215 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:37.919 wasn't even as a video destination. It was as a pitch to video creators. 216 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:41.879 Hey, we'll make it super easy for you to get your video online. 217 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:44.240 Then you can embed it wherever you want. You know, you're there 218 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:47.600 everywhere. It wasn't meant to be a destination site. It was only later 219 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:52.360 when people started linking directly to the YouTube page instead of their own website with 220 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.600 the video embedded, that it started to become a video destination site. And 221 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:59.399 that was very interesting to see happen in real time. No, it's it's 222 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:02.600 in crazy. And I also, by the way I have I think and 223 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:06.960 I want someone to tell me differently, but I think I have the first 224 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:12.559 filmmaking tutorials up on YouTube. I wouldn't be surprised because it was five Yeah, 225 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:18.039 I think I bought them, and I remember it being I remember it 226 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:22.640 being unusual, like I hadn't heard like I'm trying to think, like it 227 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:26.119 was almost it almost felt infomercially, you know, like you know, like, 228 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:30.000 oh, you know, learn how to meditate or something. You know, 229 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:32.599 you would see that kind of stuff on TV, but you didn't. 230 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:36.279 You know, it's not like now where you know masterclass and you know how 231 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:38.880 to cook and learn how to fist or that, or it wasn't a common 232 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:41.880 thing. And the fact that you were doing something on media creation was pretty 233 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:48.079 unusual because at that point it had just become viable to do, to do 234 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:52.480 like fully digital media, and then you were you had realized, oh man, 235 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.359 I like I can you know, do screen caps, and I can 236 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:57.799 do all sorts of stuff, and so you were showing the entire process in 237 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:00.880 an interesting way. Then I don't think I had been done before, Like 238 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:03.759 where did you learn how to do that? Because I don't think there's like 239 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.440 a post guy. I was a post guy, dude, I was. 240 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:12.400 I was editing since ninety six, so I just kind of understood the post 241 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:17.640 production aspect of things. And then I have a marketing head and that's how 242 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:19.960 it kind of all combined that with everything else I've done in my life. 243 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:22.440 It kind of came up and started doing it. I always just figured out 244 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:26.720 like and even then I still didn't get it because I left YouTube. I 245 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.680 should have stayed. I should have stayed, and it's kept making. If 246 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:33.640 I would have made tutorials, just kept making tutorial videos, I would own 247 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:40.880 own the filmmaking tutorial space. But I but I'm not. I'm not a 248 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:45.680 teacher. I don't I'm a filmmaker. Spielberg didn't do tutorial videos. Why 249 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:48.079 should I? And that was the ego Spipe speaking. But who knew? 250 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:52.680 No one, yes, one, No one knew, No one knew exactly. 251 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:56.759 But so so we're here to talk about your company that you've co founded 252 00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:03.279 ar Wall first of all, which is, if I'm correct about it's a 253 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.920 company that deals with augmented reality and versions of that. Can you explain to 254 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:12.559 people what augmented reality is? Absolutely? So we call ourselves an ar XR 255 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:18.960 company, which basically means augmented reality and what they call extended reality or some 256 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:25.480 people call it mixed reality. And basically what this means is we're combining live 257 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:30.160 action elements in real time with CG elements, and it's different from traditional visual 258 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:36.839 effects, which is entirely a time shifted process where you shoot and then you 259 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:42.680 do the compositing at a later point. So we're not we're not in that 260 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:48.720 game. We're in the game of capturing it on set live, whether it's 261 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.160 a live stream, a live broadcast, or live to tape type of scenario. 262 00:19:53.839 --> 00:20:00.839 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to 263 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:07.400 the show where you want to give the impression of a live broadcast. But 264 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:11.000 the whole point is you walk away from set with the final shot, with 265 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:15.599 the final pixel. And that's a fundamental shift in the way that people have 266 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:19.480 been conceiving of virtual production, because I think when it comes to film and 267 00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:23.920 TV, prior to us coming out to the scene, most people's heads were 268 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:29.039 at pre visualization, which means, you know, you hire the third floor 269 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:33.079 we worked who has worked on Star Wars and Avengers films, one of our 270 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:38.480 one of our sister companies that that we love working with, and so you 271 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:45.599 you have a temporary composite which isn't even meant to be like a full uh 272 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:49.839 like fully one tracked a composite. It's meant to be reminiscent and just to 273 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:53.480 give the the filmmakers on set like an idea of what it's going to be 274 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:57.960 like. So that's not final pixel and that's where real time graphics have been 275 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.839 relegated and film and TV for quite some time, about ten years. When 276 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:08.599 we came on the scene in twenty sixteen, there was no solution that was 277 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:15.519 fast enough to do like the window illusion and camera tracking the way that we 278 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:22.599 did. There was some stuff for experientials. Unreal had something called the R 279 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:30.279 Cluster, and then Barco had developed something for industrial use that used goggles with 280 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:34.279 like big ping pong balls on them, that type of thing, but nobody 281 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:41.920 had looked at how do you combine those experiential and industrial tools that were being 282 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:49.440 developed for commercial purposes into the media industry so that you could actually get the 283 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:55.440 CG in a realistic way, sutured behind the live action actors and sets. 284 00:21:55.640 --> 00:22:00.279 So we saw that as our original challenge and we actually accomplish that in twenty 285 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:07.599 seventeen and immediately signed a Netflix and NBC Universal project called Knife Flyers, which 286 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:12.359 was our first project. And to describe what we're up to here, basically, 287 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:17.160 what's happening is if you think of traditional rear projection, you have a 288 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:19.960 giant screen. It's giving the sensation that the actor of the sets are in 289 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:25.640 a location in which they're not actually so, in space or moving or in 290 00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:30.759 a forest or whatever the case may be. The problem with rear projection is 291 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:34.119 as you move, as you transpose the camera move the position of the camera, 292 00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:41.359 you begin to see the static rigidity of the too V plate behind the 293 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.759 actor and set where the rear projection screen is. And that's because obviously the 294 00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:51.559 illusion of parallax is broken, right and this and the SKU is not correct, 295 00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:55.759 the perspective is not correct. So what we realized was with the new 296 00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:00.200 real time, like the new advancements in immersive in VR and AR and that 297 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.119 type of stuff that were happening in twenty sixteen, there would be an opportunity 298 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:08.680 now to actually track the camera's position as it moved and update the vantage point 299 00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:15.079 onto the rear projection plate so that in under forty one milliseconds, the time 300 00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:18.119 that it takes for a shutter to open and close, we can actually update 301 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:25.200 the background dynamically so that it always looks like you're looking into a deep window 302 00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:30.480 illusion like a deep environment on that stream. So it's basically a way to 303 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:37.640 combine traditional rear projection technology with new immersive tracking technology. And that's that's what 304 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:41.440 our vision is. So I can only imagine what someone like Stanley Kubrick would 305 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.279 do with this if he was alive today, because he was one of the 306 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:49.440 I mean a rear projection been around forever, but I think Stanley was one 307 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:53.880 of the first to really take it to a whole other I still remember two 308 00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:57.599 thousand and one. Yeah, it's flawless. I mean you can't even tell 309 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:03.559 that it's real projection exactly. And actually that was our thesis statement when we 310 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:08.599 were going out and getting initial clients and getting financing and everything like that, 311 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:14.119 is we would show Wizard of Oz. Actually, and if you the Wizard 312 00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:21.039 of Oz tornado sequence, everybody can this picture the spatial reality of that tornado. 313 00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:23.839 And then to sit down with an investor and tell them, look everything 314 00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:29.480 here is rear projection, and look how real that looks. And we can 315 00:24:29.559 --> 00:24:36.000 come back to this perfection in compositing and this is a proven technique for one 316 00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:40.039 hundred years, that this is something that we can do in a successful way. 317 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:42.880 And that's really how we got the ball rolling, because I think that 318 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:48.279 was key to our company's success. We didn't come in and say we're the 319 00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:51.240 new kids on the block and we've got the new stuff and these are the 320 00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:55.160 toys. No, we did at the opposite. We said, we have 321 00:24:55.279 --> 00:25:03.160 such amazing reverence for the traditional cinematic methods and between basically between nineteen ninety and 322 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:10.359 now is an aberration where everything's green and we need to get right. That's 323 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.359 kind of the way that we were pitching it to be serious, like between 324 00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:17.920 nineteen ninety two and twenty twenty, everything was green for like thirty years, 325 00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:22.559 and it was really uh it was blue, then green, Yeah, exactly, 326 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.200 it's flu and then green and that, and we're going to look back 327 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:27.960 at this moment in history and be like, what the hell were they thinking. 328 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:33.640 That's what they were doing before these types of real time backdrops came on 329 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:37.519 the scene and they started shooting actual photons again, right, not not making 330 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:44.480 fake virtual photons to bounce around everywhere. So just kind of thinking about the 331 00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:48.000 from a historical perspective, from a legacy perspective, what would be the next 332 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:52.279 technology that comes around. And that's how really that we thought of it. 333 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.680 And I think that we've been acknowledged in this space as people who you know, 334 00:25:56.799 --> 00:26:00.000 didn't try and come in and you know, and muscle our way in 335 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:04.960 with some new tech, but really have reverence and respect for traditional cinemat and 336 00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:10.279 I think that's that's what we're all about. So the first time I really 337 00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:15.119 you know, when AR came into my viewpoint, i'd heard about it, 338 00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:18.920 but again because of early like even in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, seventeen, 339 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.079 it was still very early on, and the technology has grown so fast. 340 00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:26.519 I mean it's insane how quickly the processing power is. It's just you 341 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:30.640 know, grown that now you're able to do things like we're doing currently. 342 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:36.880 But the first time I really kind of came into the zeitgeist was Mandalorian. 343 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:41.599 Mandalorian has really put it on the map, and really, would you agree, 344 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:42.799 like when when you saw Mandalorian, it was like, oh well, 345 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.000 yes, yeah, So, I mean definitely we were having conversations and you 346 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.559 know, technically we did the first one if with night Flyers about a year 347 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:57.079 prior to Mandalorian coming out. It's when we so we were doing our work. 348 00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:04.079 But absolutely we we had such a big splash with this led backdrop stuff 349 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:10.039 that when people saw Mandalorian and they saw what was happening, Uh, they 350 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.119 got so excited. I mean, we just had an insane rush of interest 351 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:18.279 from everyone in the industry. Most people honestly thought that we had done it 352 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.640 because they didn't realize that a second team was capable of doing it, which 353 00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:25.440 is good for us because we got a lot of calls and everything like that. 354 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.880 But that was massive, and it really puts this type of real time 355 00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:33.920 technology on the map because you have, you know, a guy like Jon 356 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.400 Favreau backing this, talking about ingusting about it, everything like that, and 357 00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.839 it makes the that makes the sailing process a little bit easier, and it 358 00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:48.039 gets us further along on most on most projects than prior. So it helped 359 00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:52.519 a lot. It really made people see like, you know what, I 360 00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:53.960 don't need to do a camera test, you know, to see if it's 361 00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:56.920 viable anymore. I don't need to see any more footage like I know it's 362 00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.160 I know it's viable, and now it's need to make sure that I'm working 363 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:04.359 with the right team. So, because we're one of the longest serving teams 364 00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:10.680 in this space doing these LED backdrops, we've benefited a lot from the Mandalorians, 365 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:14.279 big surgeon interest in the industry. Yeah, I mean when I saw 366 00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:18.400 some of the behind the scenes also of what was it, Nine Flyers, 367 00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:21.160 I saw some stuff that you were doing the night Flyers and some of the 368 00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:26.279 you know, just just sitting there watching a camera guy move the camera and 369 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.640 then the background move with it. You know, your mouth drops, You're 370 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:36.079 just like what. But there's also another big benefit to that is the lighting. 371 00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:40.039 You're getting real time lighting, which you don't get in the green screen, 372 00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:45.200 and that is something that you just can't replicate in post, you know, 373 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:48.160 and being a post guy, it's difficult. It's not difficult, it's 374 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:53.440 nearly impossible to do it really well. Where now you have reflections, you 375 00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:57.559 have lighting, like if there's a sun out, the sun is hitting you. 376 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:02.880 If there's night little you know, night lights hitting you, nightlights or 377 00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:06.880 hitting you. And here's the thing, here's what's funny. You wouldn't know 378 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:11.920 exactly you wouldn't exactly know those benefits unless you'd actually have to go through the 379 00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:17.640 green screen compositing process personally and go, oh, wait, this doesn't work, 380 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:21.200 Like this thing that should work doesn't isn't working. Like I need to 381 00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:25.960 recreate this entire lighting scheme and lighting conditions or change it, you know, 382 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:30.160 and fake it or something like that, and really until you until you run 383 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.759 up to, you know, what I would call like the dead end of 384 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.119 what green screen is capable of. There's a certain point which you can't go 385 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.559 any further, you know, without really just you know, faking everything. 386 00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:45.559 It's at that point that you realize, gosh, there's got to be a 387 00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:49.240 better way. And you know, myself working as a visual effects compositor for 388 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:55.400 quite some time. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 389 00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:04.599 and now back to the show. I think, I think thinking it's just 390 00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:07.920 what I'm going to be doing when I'm sixty five, you know, Like, 391 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:12.279 am I going to be sitting here king out green and suppression? Yeah, 392 00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:17.079 painting out noise, and like, is this is this what I'm going 393 00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:22.160 to be doing, And just just having so much respect for those artists who 394 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:26.519 in you know, in my opinion, these these artists who do high level 395 00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.119 feature film and TV work and do this screen screen compositing. These are Da 396 00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:34.160 Vinci level artists that like we as a culture have basically said, like, 397 00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:38.799 you know what, just just remove the rock from the background. Okay, 398 00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:44.599 right, like basic, it's like having It's like having Leonardo Vincu. You're 399 00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:47.559 like, look, I know that you can do the sisting chapel, but 400 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:51.440 just I need that rock killed out that that the wire over there. I 401 00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:53.920 needed to get rid of that wire. Yeah, exactly, like can you 402 00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:59.759 get You're absolutely right, absolutely, that's exactly how it feels, and and 403 00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.400 and like and you'll be you'll be hanging around with these visual effects and positors 404 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.519 and you know, they'll all be like painters, you know, on their 405 00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:11.640 free time and like the amazing work and stuff, and you're going, gosh, 406 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:15.519 okay, is that what we're asking these people to do? And really 407 00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:21.319 just just thinking something is going to come along and it's going to be able 408 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:23.799 to do this in an automated way, and what does that what does that 409 00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:29.480 look like? In realizing that actually has to happen on set while the camera 410 00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.640 is rolling. If we can get them, if we can get a robotic 411 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:37.400 compositor, you know, to to you know, use the wrong term basically, 412 00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:44.079 but we make an automated compositor that actually composits the shot before this shutter 413 00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:49.000 opens and closes while you're shooting, then ultimately that's going to be the right 414 00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:53.359 moment and in order to complete the composite before it goes into the camera's lens. 415 00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:57.000 So that's really how you know, back up that entire process all the 416 00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:00.640 way on TOO set, all the way on too set, and even actually 417 00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:06.240 before the the frame is exposed. That's that's how we came up with this. 418 00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:09.440 And and and uh, that's was the original conception just for like from 419 00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:14.920 a really basic standpoint, thinking of it that way. So are so we 420 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:19.160 see the technologies there and and now you know you use these these giant led 421 00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:24.920 uh backdrops and and how how I mean, what's like do you use projectors? 422 00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:29.000 Do you actually use monitors to do a combination of do is there like 423 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:31.880 stitching of giant eighty or one hundred and fifty inch monitors? How are you 424 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:37.559 doing it? Sure? So it's a technology that was that most people will 425 00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:43.720 be familiar with for concerts. So you imagine, you know, the big 426 00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:47.960 Beyonce concerts. She's got those amazing LED screens behind her that are coordinated in 427 00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:52.000 motion, you know, motion design, motion graphics with this with the tracks 428 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:57.240 and songs and her performance and everything. So it's it's literally those same companies 429 00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:00.359 that are deploying the screens. You know, there's a lot of great LED 430 00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:07.920 rental companies out there that we work with, and the difference is that the 431 00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:12.000 density, the pixel density of the screens is much tighter when you're looking for 432 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.920 film and TVs because you want to avoid pixelation and mora and those types of 433 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:19.720 issues that go along with it. So let's say you know, at a 434 00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:23.640 concert, you might have a pitch that's like five point six millimeter, which 435 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:30.440 is describes the distance between the LED diodes, but on film and TV, 436 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:34.799 you might be increasing that by eight times, so eight times more pixels in 437 00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:37.599 the same like square, Inche that type of thing. So what you end 438 00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:44.119 up with is basically kind of like the difference between SD and HD way back 439 00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:47.799 in the day, where you'll be looking from the same distance, but you'll 440 00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:55.039 just see it being much smoother. Really the illusion of curves and everything is 441 00:33:55.119 --> 00:34:00.400 maintained, and so like what we've basically been looking at right now is about 442 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:06.279 one point five millimeter pitch. For these LEDs, they are built up like 443 00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:10.719 legos, so you know, you build them one one row, and then 444 00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:14.800 you build this next row, and then you build a next row until it's 445 00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:20.320 up to the size that you need. So genuinely, the most common size 446 00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:23.519 that we're working at is about twenty four by ten feet or twenty four by 447 00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:29.599 twelve feet for a screen, and then the largest that we've done for a 448 00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:35.199 commercial production is about forty five feet by sixteen feet, and that was fires. 449 00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:38.119 That's the whole side. That's the whole side of a sound stage, 450 00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:44.360 like an entire side of a sound stage is filled with a virtual world. 451 00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:46.800 And then that way you have the flexibility to put the sets and put the 452 00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:51.199 actors kind of anywhere in the stage and know that you're going to have that 453 00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:54.280 amazing backdrop do you have you did you do a ceiling as well, because 454 00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:59.280 I remember in Mandalorian they actually have that. It's like a dome almost, 455 00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:05.519 So we didn't. We didn't do a ceiling with led panels. However, 456 00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:10.039 there was a full production lighting grid up there where they were able to coordinate 457 00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:14.760 with the action on the screen to make sure that there's you know, the 458 00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:20.159 lighting, lightings coordinated and that was done by hands I think now, because 459 00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:24.480 that was way back in was twenty seventeen, something like that, way back, 460 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:30.679 way back way back seventeen. Free trust me, I wish I was 461 00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:37.079 back in twenty seventeen. We're in twenty twenty currently. Oh my gosh. 462 00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:40.639 So I think if we were to do it now, it would be there's 463 00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:45.679 be some automation, there'd be some DMX controlled lighting that would coordinate with the 464 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:49.599 with the system, and we might be doing some interesting stuff with that very 465 00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:53.280 soon. And so that's that's generally the screen sizes that we're working at. 466 00:35:53.559 --> 00:36:00.679 We have worked with rear projection as well, Barco and Christy some amazing projectors 467 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:05.360 that I think would be suitable, perfectly suitable for film and TV. So 468 00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:07.840 it just requires, you know, to be frank like a better DP. 469 00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:12.039 You have to just be a DP that knows how to use real projection. 470 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:16.119 But you can get some really amazing looks. And one of the benefits is 471 00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:22.440 it's it doesn't have the mare and pixelation the way that you perceive on LED 472 00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:24.719 screens, so it can be really good for some scenarios. So and that 473 00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:30.599 would be and then you could actually get a much larger screen with a projector 474 00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:35.000 as opposed to LEDs easier or not. Oh yeah, So for people that 475 00:36:35.079 --> 00:36:38.239 want to get into these types of virtual backdrops and virtual production using LED or 476 00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:45.760 reprojection. Reprojection can be a good first step. You can play around on 477 00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:50.719 reprojection without too much cost. But I also recommend just playing around on a 478 00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:53.920 TV because that can be you can get some really large TVs and get some 479 00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:59.159 shots that look really good and just start learning about the technology. So we 480 00:36:59.239 --> 00:37:02.320 actually sell we do sell a product specifically for that. It's called AIRFX Home 481 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:07.599 Studio. It's made for creators that were stuck at home, so basically for 482 00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:13.039 myself, And actually we originally conceived of the product because I would have to 483 00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:16.119 do the demos here at home at my home on my TV, and a 484 00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:20.199 lot of filmmakers were like, you know, it's great to have a big 485 00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:23.400 led setup. Can I get that the exact thing that you are showing me 486 00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:27.679 right now in your TV? That would be amazing just to learn. So 487 00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:30.559 we did come out with a product specifically for that. If people are interested 488 00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:35.119 in the cost of that is I mean you're saying right now, the price 489 00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:37.840 is around ten grand if I saw your website correctly, right, yeah, 490 00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:42.639 nine five hundred is what we're asking for. AIRFX Home Studio that comes with 491 00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:46.079 the workstation itself as well as all the tracking you additionally get technical support, 492 00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:52.239 knowledge based video tutorials, and you know, get to our expertise to support 493 00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:58.280 your projects. It also comes with a launch scene pack about one hundred backdrops. 494 00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:01.079 It's really everything that somebody need to get started in this space, and 495 00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:06.199 that's going to connect perfectly to your TV and your existing camera. So let's 496 00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:09.079 talk about the backdrops, because that's the one thing that this all sounds fantastic, 497 00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:15.320 but unless you're a guy or a gal who knows how to render out 498 00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:17.000 real time, like, how is the backdrop? How is the creation of 499 00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:21.079 the backdrops work? How can you create customs? Can you go out and 500 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:23.079 shoot footage and put it on there? Does that work? How is it? 501 00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:28.320 How explain that process? Like the actual creation of the backdrop? Sure, 502 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:30.760 it's definitely the part of the process that still needs work. Like this 503 00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:35.920 is not a perfect method the way that it's been done right now, and 504 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.760 basically the way that that method is is you build up the actual geometry of 505 00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:45.039 the scene either in MAYA or three studio max Blend or whatever the case may 506 00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:47.800 be. Then you bring it into unreal engine and at that point you need 507 00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:55.360 to apply real time materials and shaders and that type of stuff. Lighting, 508 00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:00.920 specific types of lighting materials and shaders to the elements, and then at that 509 00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:06.280 point you're ready to shoot and you can use the backdrop. So it's it's 510 00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.920 it's taken visual effects folks a little bit to figure out. Okay, this 511 00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:16.800 is how I moved from my traditional post methodology to pushing everything into pre into 512 00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:21.239 a real time engine, which is a un real engine is what we're currently 513 00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:25.920 working on, which is one of the top real time graphics engines in existence. 514 00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:30.519 It's they're definitely the leaders in this space. And then this was this 515 00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:34.840 was also kind of pioneered in the video game space, absolutely, and that's 516 00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:38.440 that's I think. I think when filmmakers start to look at this real time 517 00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:43.960 space and realize they're kind of dipping their toes in the same waters as video 518 00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:50.119 game people, they they can sometimes get intimidated because it's a different world, 519 00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:54.840 it's a different culture and everything like that. We'll be right back after a 520 00:39:54.880 --> 00:40:05.199 word from our sponsor and now back to the show. But I think once 521 00:40:05.239 --> 00:40:08.599 they realize this key point, it starts to become a lot easier for them. 522 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:14.480 In the video game world, this is built off of a world of 523 00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:21.599 you know, indie makers and people who were coming out of the culture of 524 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:29.079 technology and independent technology. So these people believe in sharing quite a bit. 525 00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:32.960 So whenever, for example, whenever a video game company finishes a major project 526 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:36.920 and you know, it has success or a dozen or whatever, and they're 527 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:40.440 basically done with those assets, they tend to then take every single one of 528 00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:45.320 the assets that they made and liquidate it onto a marketplace for you, so 529 00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:49.960 you can go and buy every single thing from the video game, or you 530 00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:53.400 can buy the select you know, most in demand things from that video game. 531 00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:58.719 So, as a filmmaker, when you come to Unreal Engine and you 532 00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:00.920 go to the Unreal Assets Store, and you go to Turbo Squid and all 533 00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:06.079 these other places where you can begin to get these acids, what you realize 534 00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:10.039 is, I'm you know, you're sitting on a legacy of twenty plus years 535 00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:15.920 of acid creation, where video game creators have just been making making, making 536 00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:19.519 put in on the marketplace, make make make put on the marketplace and that's 537 00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:23.400 been happening thousands of artists for decades. So you'll you'll be able to go 538 00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:28.159 and get you know, your you know, your Lamborghini, your you know 539 00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:30.800 your forests, that type of your t Rex. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 540 00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:35.079 So so a lot of the time what we're doing with a client when 541 00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:38.199 we're when we're when we're you know, doing a location scout, which is 542 00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:44.159 like a virtual location scout. We'll actually go through the unreal acid store and 543 00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:45.079 do like what do you want and they'll be like, Okay, I want 544 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:49.280 an alley. Okay, Ali, we type it in, we get you 545 00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:52.079 know, fifteen different alleys, and then we're doing basically going through the screenshots 546 00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:55.320 going does this feel right? Does that feel right? And that's actually how 547 00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:59.719 we're we're doing it in the moment, and then when we actually is that 548 00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:06.039 crazy? And then when we actually need to like lock this specific shot like 549 00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:07.760 on a you know, this is shot as a shot b that type of 550 00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:13.239 thing, what we'll end up doing is literally on a zoom chat like this, 551 00:42:13.480 --> 00:42:15.760 I'll be going flying through the location and they'll say, you know what, 552 00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:19.039 that looks pretty good, Like I like that tree right there, that 553 00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:22.480 type of thing. Okay, So then I'll bookmarkt into our system and then 554 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:25.920 when they show up on set, that's exactly what they saw on that zoom 555 00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:30.280 called. That's genuitally how we're doing uh, these locations scots. Now in 556 00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:34.840 the middle there. Of course, we have amazing technical artists who are you 557 00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:37.639 know, making everything look for the real as much as possible, getting the 558 00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:40.199 animation done, getting the scripted events done, effects and that type of stuff. 559 00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:44.719 So are you are you bringing in the location when you're bringing in these 560 00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:46.960 files? Are you just bringing elements in and you're putting it all together, 561 00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:51.199 or are you building like are you getting a full blown alley with the garbage 562 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.679 cans with the lighting schemes? Like what are you what are you getting exactly? 563 00:42:54.679 --> 00:43:00.920 You're getting everything? Like either we're either we're building off of one specific 564 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:05.000 existing stock asset which is royalty free. By the way, these are all 565 00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:07.360 royalty free. You can use them. You know, you could go and 566 00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:09.719 you could make a Disney film with them, and technically the artists couldn't say 567 00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:15.239 anything. It's kind of a weird reality that we live in. So they 568 00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:22.159 come with everything genuinely inside them, or you can populate them with all sorts 569 00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:25.079 of whatever props you want. So there's full flexibility here to create the world 570 00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:28.599 that you want to be created. Yeah, I mean I was. I 571 00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:31.440 was doing a show for Legendary, a TV show, and I we were 572 00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:35.880 doing so many insane visual effects, Like we did one hundred and fifty visual 573 00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:38.480 effects a week for a full blown show. It was insane and the only 574 00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:42.559 way we could do it was we went to Turbo Squid and I'm like, 575 00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:45.360 okay, we need a dune worm. Okay, great, let's get in 576 00:43:45.400 --> 00:43:47.679 and we just and we'd go and find them and they were all pre built, 577 00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:51.119 and then my vfxs of artists can go because if they would have to 578 00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:55.280 create those elements, we never make it. And they're cheap, they're not 579 00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:59.119 they're not super I mean, I'm sure an alley or something a little bit 580 00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:01.440 more detailed, defensive, but relatively speaking, a lot cheaper than having to 581 00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:05.800 create it yourself. Yeah. I mean, if you're guys sending like a 582 00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:08.599 table and chair or something, you're probably spending like what less than thirty bucks 583 00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:14.280 maybe something like that for like a really really nice one. Yeah. So 584 00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:20.119 it's a it's a really interesting world once you get into into fully digital environments. 585 00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:23.320 And I think it's the same kind of thing that happens when people jumped 586 00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:30.519 from physical sets to green screen. What's happening now is that process of uh, 587 00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:34.639 you're ending up with more finalized assets now, whereas before you know you'd 588 00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:37.440 have to you know, you'd have to fit it into the world of your 589 00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:40.480 film. Now you can go you can find pretty much anything of any style, 590 00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:45.199 you know, change it up a little bit, change the color or 591 00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:47.360 something like that, and you have an asset ready to go for your project. 592 00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:54.079 So it's it's really it's a really odd time in media right now because 593 00:44:54.760 --> 00:45:01.000 labor and creativity and artistry have been massive are getting massive undervalued because you know, 594 00:45:01.159 --> 00:45:06.079 all this stuff is out there for free. But at the same time, 595 00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:09.880 as a creator, as a filmmaker, it's almost like never been a 596 00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:15.920 better time because you've got all this royalty free assets, you've got the actual 597 00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:21.719 capability to utilize those assets in your project with this with our technology and similar 598 00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:25.480 technology. So you're like, it's it's it's a really interesting time. And 599 00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:30.639 what we're seeing from from filmmakers is actually we're getting this sentence a lot. 600 00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:36.599 Wow. I've always had this concept that I would never have been able to 601 00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:38.679 do, and now I'm going to do it. And so we're working on 602 00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:43.559 a couple of projects right now where these are projects where the artists, the 603 00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:45.559 director, you know, they wanted to do this five years ago, but 604 00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:50.400 it was not it's not a budgetary reality. And now we're able to lower 605 00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:53.960 that budgetary threshold for them so that that vision that they have is actually achievable. 606 00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:59.639 And as a filmmaker, you know, when I'm moving the needle on 607 00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:00.800 like it's it's great. You know, it's great to make some money and 608 00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:05.559 you know that's awesome, right, But when I'm moving the needle on, 609 00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:10.039 what can what is actually getting greenland? That's that's amazing. And two, 610 00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:15.440 the created vision that is actually getting executed upon that project dreamline. I mean 611 00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:20.320 to be able to affect that in a meaningful way. It's very satisfying and 612 00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:22.880 to me, that's what that's what I'm working for. So that was the 613 00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:28.719 other thing I want to talk about. The budgetary benefits of this is massive 614 00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:32.519 because a show like Mandalorian could not be made without this technology. It's just 615 00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:37.440 be too expensive. It It'd be like making a half of a Star Wars 616 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:42.480 film every episode which you got it, it's like it's impossible. Wouldn't wouldn't 617 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:46.480 have happened, Like Mandalorian playing plane plainly wouldn't have happened. And a lot 618 00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:51.400 of people might not realize that there was an actual live action Star Wars film. 619 00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:54.679 Star Wars a series that was attempted not not to like maybe, oh 620 00:46:54.679 --> 00:47:00.480 they had like seventy they had seventy episodes written. I remember like Luke Lucas 621 00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:02.800 had like seventy episodes written of that was he was going to do it, 622 00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:07.639 but he just was going to could figure it out. They couldn't figure out 623 00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:10.079 because at that point they were using green screen and so that just the compositing 624 00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:15.519 and tracking and getting everything working with the beautiful animation that they you know, 625 00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:20.199 were interested in getting it just wouldn't have happened, or you know, frankly, 626 00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:23.320 it didn't happen. And I think that they've been pushing the live action 627 00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:29.880 Star Wars series concept until they saw this technology was successible. And I like 628 00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:32.639 to say that we were part of actually pushing them over that edge. You 629 00:47:32.679 --> 00:47:37.079 know, we did a showcase at Disney for about two days where we showed 630 00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:40.559 everyone the pability of this technology and really push it over the edge. And 631 00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:45.320 and you know, we've been definitely causing some trouble, like when we come 632 00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:50.599 out here, and just to be clear, not everyone as a fan of 633 00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:53.400 what we're doing. You can imagine whose lunch we're eating when we're coming out 634 00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:57.960 and saying, you never have to hire a compositor again. You never have 635 00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:01.679 to hire a rotor guy again, know that type of thing. So so 636 00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:06.639 yeah, I mean we got all sorts of pushback from the visual effects folks 637 00:48:06.639 --> 00:48:10.159 that you know, many different studios, But I think when you actually see, 638 00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:15.199 wait a second, we're not actually taking money out of someone's pocket. 639 00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:19.719 What we're doing is we're green lighting a project that would have never happen, 640 00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:24.000 right, getting the getting the cost of those shots that are appropriate for our 641 00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:29.519 technology way way down. And you know, for those shots where visual effects 642 00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:31.880 is still a perfect fit, post visual effects is still a perfect fit. 643 00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:37.159 You know, they can continue to have those those those shots, and there's 644 00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:40.840 many shots in which our technology will never be suitable, you know, flying 645 00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:45.480 an X Wing down the trench and having those beautiful exterior shots of the X 646 00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:47.880 Wing and that type of stuff. You know, there's no way that we're 647 00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:51.760 going to be relevant to that because there's no you know, the live action 648 00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:55.039 component of that is so minor, so like there's always going to be a 649 00:48:55.079 --> 00:49:00.599 place for visual effects, And the fact is they should be working on those 650 00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:04.800 amazing trench run sequences. They should not be working as separating you know, 651 00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:09.639 actresses blonde hair from green, and that they should be more for the like 652 00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:15.079 if you try to do this with Avengers Endgame, the Final the Final Battle. 653 00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:16.960 You know, I was trying to think about when I saw this technology 654 00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:20.199 and like, Okay, how could have this been played out? Because I 655 00:49:20.199 --> 00:49:23.280 saw the behind the scenes of the Avengers Endgame and it's just massive green. 656 00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:27.960 It's just massive, massive, massive amounts of green. But I'm like, 657 00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:31.599 how could have this worked in that environment? And maybe you would have They 658 00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:37.000 could have probably dropped millions of dollars off of it if they would have structured 659 00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:45.199 certain shots within uh some sort of ar dome of some sort. But but 660 00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:49.039 but this is those giant, massive shots when you've got fifty people running. 661 00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:52.159 Maybe you could maybe you couldn't. There's still gonna be some cg comping in 662 00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:58.079 there, but there might be a lot of a lot of time and money 663 00:49:58.119 --> 00:50:07.000 saved. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back 664 00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:12.000 to the show. Yeah, absolutely, So, we actually did a case 665 00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:16.320 study on Night Fliers. We went and got comparison pricing for what if these 666 00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:21.639 shots had been achieved through traditional green screen visual effects, and what we found 667 00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:25.199 was pretty startling. We were looking at anywhere from a sixty two to seventy 668 00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:34.079 three percent reduction of budget for those shots, so meaning wow, so we 669 00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:40.199 were cutting somewhere around four hundred grand off of an episode budget just by being 670 00:50:40.280 --> 00:50:47.360 there and accomplishing these effects on set, versus them having to capture a green 671 00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:52.960 then send it out to a house to work on for two months, come 672 00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:59.320 back just to give them the flaring and the beautiful play of light that they're 673 00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:04.519 getting read out of the box with our technology. This is physical photons coming 674 00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:07.000 out of the screen, hitting the actor's face, hitting the set, you 675 00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:12.880 know, the and eventually bouncing into the lens as opposed to having to replicate 676 00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:16.440 that artificially. I mean, it's just for those filmmakers, those dps and 677 00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:21.559 directors that are looking for that look, it's just a much better choice for 678 00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:27.480 them. So that's what we've been seeing be successful. But it's also to 679 00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:30.960 be clear, this is a budgetary concern as well. Producers are liking this 680 00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:36.920 technology because it's saving them company moves, it's saving them post reduction time. 681 00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:42.079 They're you know, potentially simplifying their post production down. So if you're post 682 00:51:42.079 --> 00:51:45.760 supervisor you know, maybe you're working two months instead of four months. It's 683 00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:49.480 that's the reality that we're bringing to the table with its technology. You know, 684 00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:53.000 it's great to it's great to talk about, you know, bringing dreams, 685 00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:58.159 you know, to fruition and that type of stuff. But if the 686 00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:01.519 dollars and cents that don't make sense, then it's never going to happen. 687 00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:06.760 So at every moment of our of our company, we've always been, you 688 00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:09.920 know, mindful of the fact that we're independent filmmakers and we're budget conscious. 689 00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:15.519 I know, filmmakers like yourself who are working filmmakers, your budget conscious as 690 00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:19.639 well. And it goes all the way up and down the ladder. Nobody 691 00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:22.639 is looking to spend more than they have to. So if we can create 692 00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:27.960 that narrative that you know, this is an opportunity for you instead of having 693 00:52:27.960 --> 00:52:30.320 to go chase that tax incentive, which is basically what producers are doing, 694 00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:34.639 like you're just okay, we're gonna you know, save mindy, go chase 695 00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:37.320 that tax incentive, go to bulk area, you know, or wherever we 696 00:52:37.719 --> 00:52:40.679 have to go. Instead of doing that, you know, cut seventy percent 697 00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:45.360 of your effects budget using this technology, and it's going to be suitable for 698 00:52:45.559 --> 00:52:47.760 you know, ninety percent plus of the shots that you need. And that's 699 00:52:47.800 --> 00:52:52.119 basically the narrative that that we've been pitching with that case study that's actually available 700 00:52:52.119 --> 00:52:54.599 on our website. People are interested in going and taking a look, just 701 00:52:54.599 --> 00:53:00.079 look for night Fiers case study on the homepage and then hopefully you'll see there 702 00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:07.079 like just how disruptive this technology is going to be. And here's the thing. 703 00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:13.519 Is so disruptive that I think without the pandemic occurring, we still would 704 00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:16.719 be having we still would be struggling to get adoption now that the pandemic occurred. 705 00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:21.960 I you know, I've I've done demos for over four hundred filmmakers and 706 00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:25.400 executives in the past, you know, six months. It's virtual demos like 707 00:53:25.599 --> 00:53:30.400 me and me in my living room in front of my TV. And just 708 00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:35.840 beginning to see those those that interests trickle in for quarter one of twenty twenty 709 00:53:35.880 --> 00:53:38.400 one. Yeah, it's it's going to be an exciting time for virtual production 710 00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:44.079 in general. Now, now do you believe because of you know, this 711 00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:47.360 is a larger conversation, but I think you guys are definitely an ingredient in 712 00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:55.320 it because because the theatrical experience and the theatrical component of the distribution pipeline is 713 00:53:55.320 --> 00:53:59.679 pretty much gone right now as we're currently recording this. I'm sure it will 714 00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:01.719 come back in one way, shape or form in the future. But I 715 00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:07.199 just read an article yesterday that Disney is completely doing a reorganization and they're completely 716 00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:13.760 focusing on streaming. So that means that Marvel Movies and all these big tentpole 717 00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:16.079 movies are going to start going straight to streaming because they're just like, this 718 00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:21.119 is the future. Theatrical is not where it's at. I'm sure it still 719 00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:22.920 have a component of it, of course, but it's not what it was, 720 00:54:23.239 --> 00:54:28.679 and it's I don't think it's going to go back to pre COVID levels 721 00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:31.920 anytime in the near future. Studios are going to the studios are not going 722 00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:37.360 to be able to spend three hundred to five hundred million dollars on ten poles 723 00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:44.000 anymore because the return on the investment isn't as much there because the theatrical international 724 00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:47.280 theatrical components aren't nearly as big as you know. Before you an Avengers will 725 00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:52.360 make two billion you know where, I don't know could it make that streaming, 726 00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:55.679 don't I don't. I don't know, you know what, I pay 727 00:54:55.719 --> 00:55:01.920 thirty bucks opening day to see the Endgame probably, and I believe there's probably 728 00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:07.719 at least forty or fifty million people in the world that probably would And that's 729 00:55:07.719 --> 00:55:13.400 a pretty good that's one point five billion dollars. Yeah, I think it's 730 00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:17.320 it's it's it's such a weird time because actually, what's happening is now the 731 00:55:17.559 --> 00:55:24.320 the the established streamers Amazon, Netflix, these guys are actually having conversations with 732 00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:29.360 the theater owners to see, like, could we fill this gap that the 733 00:55:29.480 --> 00:55:34.440 major studios are no longer filling because they're just not generating and releasing the content. 734 00:55:34.480 --> 00:55:37.440 They just, you know, basically, the metrics don't make sense. 735 00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:42.320 Right. They made these projects for a pre COVID world, and they have 736 00:55:42.400 --> 00:55:45.840 to release it in a post COVID world, right, and it's just that 737 00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:52.320 those those metrics are just never going to line up. So what and what's 738 00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:55.239 happening with the streamers is they were kind of thinking more of the of those 739 00:55:55.280 --> 00:56:00.679 metrics making sense for them. The business model that they have just fits a 740 00:56:00.679 --> 00:56:04.119 little bit better, and they have the flexibility to go out and do quote 741 00:56:04.199 --> 00:56:08.800 unquote a minor theatrical release just to drum up some some publicity for the project. 742 00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:15.599 So I think the way that it's trickling down to effects vendors and technology 743 00:56:15.679 --> 00:56:20.519 vendors working in entertainment like us is, you know, one the number of 744 00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:25.400 people that are looking for a budget conscious solution has fid like we're getting hair 745 00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:29.960 amount, you know, looking for a budget consciot solution. Disney looking for 746 00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:34.000 a budget conscious solution. And that's just not where you were before. In 747 00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:37.000 fact, it was the opposite. If you went above a certain level in 748 00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:43.880 quote unquote you know, industry notoriety, industry status, you basically don't play 749 00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:47.239 with anyone below a certain level, right just because you're trying to keep that 750 00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:52.000 you know, that quality high, you're trying to keep the entire you know, 751 00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:58.880 social stratum high. So like so it's it's it's definitely changed. And 752 00:56:58.920 --> 00:57:02.360 the other thing that's changed is you have a lot of people who are smart, 753 00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:07.199 who have been poised and waiting for a moment like this and who are 754 00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:13.679 now attacking. And they're now you know, they see the established players all 755 00:57:14.239 --> 00:57:19.119 you know, tripping and falling and stumbling, and they're going, wait a 756 00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:22.760 second, this is my opportunity to have a conversation with that studio executive, 757 00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:27.599 to have a conversation with that filmmaker, to have a conversation with that talent 758 00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:31.519 agent that I wouldn't have been able to have prior. And a lot of 759 00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:37.280 the people who are being successful now are people who have experienced in effects, 760 00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:44.159 in virtual production and then also in working at smaller budgets, so they're willing 761 00:57:44.199 --> 00:57:47.000 to have a conversation with us, you know, on behalf of these major 762 00:57:47.079 --> 00:57:52.679 studios in a way that we wouldn't necessarily have had before. And that's been 763 00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:55.480 super interesting because you know, these are major filmmakers who want to have these 764 00:57:55.519 --> 00:58:00.880 conversations, who are looking to become the virtual production at this studio, and 765 00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:05.960 that's an exciting thing to be hearing from filmmakers. So with your with your 766 00:58:06.199 --> 00:58:13.360 ARFX home studio product, can't independent filmmakers use this technology in their projects. 767 00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:19.320 If you have a two hundred three hundred thousand dollars movie budget and you know 768 00:58:19.400 --> 00:58:22.079 it's not a sci fi extravagance, it doesn't have to be. But if 769 00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:25.079 you have an action film or if you you know, just want to create 770 00:58:25.199 --> 00:58:30.000 a little bit more scope in the back in the backdrop of shots to give 771 00:58:30.039 --> 00:58:36.039 more production value to your to your as opposed to flying to Montana for the 772 00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:42.000 end for that sunset. You can have the Montana endless sunset for twelve hours 773 00:58:42.320 --> 00:58:45.199 like they did. You've got it. Yeah, so can they? You 774 00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:46.960 can they do it? And what does it take to get that to work 775 00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:51.960 for them? Yeah? So the way that we're pitching air Effects on studio 776 00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:57.280 is that this is the method to learn about this new virtual production technique. 777 00:58:57.679 --> 00:59:02.280 However, you know, creators being for creators and filmmakers being filmmakers. Immediately 778 00:59:02.360 --> 00:59:06.239 people are saying, you know what, I could hook this up to a 779 00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:09.960 rear projection system. I could hook this up to an LED system and actually 780 00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:15.119 be able to shoot some stuff and get some shots out of the box, 781 00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:23.000 like completely compositive and ready to go looking great, just with this air effects 782 00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:27.679 home studio box, you know, some lighting and my camera and everything like 783 00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:34.719 that. I think that's obviously what we want people to think, because at 784 00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:37.079 the end of the day, there is nothing special about, you know, 785 00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:42.199 going out to a TV that's for K resolution and going out to a rear 786 00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:46.000 projection system that's for K resolution. From the perspective of the actual system, 787 00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:50.960 there is no difference. It's just pushing out resolution, right, just pushing 788 00:59:50.960 --> 00:59:54.360 out pixels and doing that, you know, at a high frame rate that's 789 00:59:54.360 --> 01:00:00.280 going to be suitable for the camera, the production. We'll be right back 790 01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:08.480 after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. So from 791 01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:14.079 the perspective of the system, there is no difference. What we're saying basically 792 01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:19.679 is for AIRFX home studio, it's the it comes with backdrops which are preset 793 01:00:19.719 --> 01:00:22.400 for you, preset backdrops, stock environments, so that if you want that 794 01:00:22.519 --> 01:00:27.400 forest, that temple, that apartment, that office, whatever, that's going 795 01:00:27.480 --> 01:00:30.400 to go ahead and come in those scene pacts for you. But if you 796 01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:36.880 want custom content or you want to have deeper technical tech rehearsal tools than our 797 01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:40.000 AIRFX Professional system, this first system that we came out with, which is 798 01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:44.280 what we license out to major studios and that type of stuff, that's still 799 01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:47.800 going to be the better choice for those professionals. What the cost of those 800 01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:52.920 If you're interested in knowing about the cost of AIRFX Professional, you can reach 801 01:00:52.920 --> 01:00:59.280 out to us. It's actually we have different pricing depending on different types of 802 01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:01.280 you know, it's a sliding scale depending on the project. Everything like that. 803 01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:07.079 The other reason I mentioned that is because we do actually have bundle packages 804 01:01:07.480 --> 01:01:13.000 with stages located here in LA. So we have partnered with stages here in 805 01:01:13.119 --> 01:01:20.119 LA to have the LED screens or have suitable setups and you can actually get 806 01:01:20.679 --> 01:01:24.719 entire bundle packages by coming to us and using those stages. So that's what 807 01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:29.440 we've been working on during the pandemics. We've taking the opportunity to go, 808 01:01:29.599 --> 01:01:32.480 like, you know what, these stages are having issues getting people in. 809 01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:37.119 One way that we can attract those people is having a more COVID safe, 810 01:01:37.519 --> 01:01:40.760 you know, social distancing state solution. So that's what that's what we've done, 811 01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:45.199 and we're very hopeful that that people are going to find those valuable and 812 01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:50.159 attractive now. And finally, are we just getting closer and closer to the 813 01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:52.880 Star Trek's holidack. I mean essentially this is this is essentially where we're going. 814 01:01:54.039 --> 01:01:58.480 It's funny. It's funny you say that because one of the first things 815 01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:01.159 that happened when we got big of you heads coming in as a studio ahead 816 01:02:01.159 --> 01:02:04.199 and would say, you know, it's great that you can track the camera. 817 01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.000 That's awesome. When is it going to attract me when is it going 818 01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:09.079 to attract my head, you know, me as an individual, and I 819 01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:14.519 can actually get these illusions for you know, walking around a room. So 820 01:02:14.599 --> 01:02:17.960 we actually developed that, we built that, and we released it at CEES 821 01:02:19.480 --> 01:02:22.920 just earlier this year at the beginning of the year, prior to the pandemic, 822 01:02:22.360 --> 01:02:28.039 and we won Best ar Experience for that product. It's called Airwall Interactive, 823 01:02:28.199 --> 01:02:32.599 very creative names as you can see, and basically what it is is 824 01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:37.800 it uses depth cameras to establish the track of your head position, so it's 825 01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:43.000 tracking this point right in the bridge of your nose between your eyes, and 826 01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:45.119 then it's delivering the same wind to illusion that we're delivering to our camera, 827 01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:51.280 delivering it to you as an individual. So you walk into a room with 828 01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:53.679 you know, three walls of this experience, which is some of the conversations 829 01:02:53.719 --> 01:02:57.679 that we're having right now, and you'll, you know, you'll be in 830 01:02:57.719 --> 01:03:01.400 another world. And as you move this way, that way is the perspective 831 01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:07.000 is going to shift perfectly to your vantage point. And we're actually getting that 832 01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:10.960 down to the point where it's no longer perceivable. The delay is no longer 833 01:03:10.960 --> 01:03:15.760 perceivable by the human eye. So we're talking about something that feels stuck to 834 01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:20.159 your head, and you move around and it feels stuck to your head every 835 01:03:20.480 --> 01:03:23.440 little sentimeter that you move. The other interesting thing about that is since we 836 01:03:23.480 --> 01:03:27.800 can track your head, we can actually track your entire body, your hands, 837 01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:31.079 your eyes, everything, So we can create situations where based on your 838 01:03:31.159 --> 01:03:36.039 body position, your pose, or the actions that you take, the system 839 01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:39.639 can respond to you. So what am I talking about? Characters that look 840 01:03:39.719 --> 01:03:44.119 directly into your eyes? Because remember we know the position of your head, 841 01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:46.800 We look directly into your eyes, we talk to you, we respond to 842 01:03:46.880 --> 01:03:51.039 your voice, and then we actually respond to your gesture. So if you 843 01:03:51.159 --> 01:03:53.400 point and you know, say it's over there and point over there, the 844 01:03:53.400 --> 01:04:00.760 CG character can look at where you're pointing and react realistically using either a TATBOS 845 01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:03.840 system or AI or something like that. So that's the type of really crazy 846 01:04:03.880 --> 01:04:08.800 stuff that we're working in. And I'll be frank, I would love to 847 01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:13.800 say that, you know, we're definitely one of the companies that down the 848 01:04:13.840 --> 01:04:16.639 line, the patents that we filed, the work that we've been doing with 849 01:04:16.760 --> 01:04:21.440 brands and with venues, hopefully Wilson Day lead to a holiday type device. 850 01:04:21.920 --> 01:04:26.519 Not necessarily saying that we're going to be the company to doing because I still 851 01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:29.639 do think it's a little bit down the line. Maybe by the end of 852 01:04:29.679 --> 01:04:33.719 my life we may have something like as you have fifty years something maybe something 853 01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:39.400 like that, But I do definitely think that between now and then, we're 854 01:04:39.400 --> 01:04:44.519 going to have these very interesting experiences, Like from the perspective of somebody who 855 01:04:44.840 --> 01:04:47.440 you know, wasn't born with these type of technology being around, it is 856 01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:51.679 going to seem and feel like a holiday type of experience. And just to 857 01:04:51.719 --> 01:04:58.400 be clear, those are conversations we're having right now about let's deploy that first 858 01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:02.079 quarter of twenty twenty one, let's make that happen. And I think the 859 01:05:02.199 --> 01:05:06.920 pandemic also helps push that conversation along because people can't get out and they can't 860 01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:13.039 have these experiences, and particularly when you think about training and education, these 861 01:05:13.039 --> 01:05:16.840 are situations where you know you can't stop training people just because it's cumbersome and 862 01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:20.800 difficult, right, People still need to be trained up. So that's that's 863 01:05:20.840 --> 01:05:25.079 what we're seeing kind of the first interest coming from that from that space. 864 01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:29.519 So I know it's it's it's something that may seem distant in science fiction, 865 01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:33.679 but that those conversations are happening now, creating those immersive rooms that those conversations 866 01:05:33.719 --> 01:05:36.360 are happening. The funny thing is that as you're saying this, I'm like, 867 01:05:36.480 --> 01:05:41.320 in fifty years this will look like SD this will look like a silent 868 01:05:41.440 --> 01:05:47.519 movie technology comparatively to what the Holid deck is. But it's not that far, 869 01:05:47.719 --> 01:05:51.719 Like you know, we're not that far. It's a stone throw it's 870 01:05:51.760 --> 01:05:58.840 a big stone throw away, but it is still something that's not completely astronomical 871 01:05:58.880 --> 01:06:03.400 to in my life time to see a holid deck where where you're interacting with 872 01:06:04.039 --> 01:06:13.719 photoreal computer generated images that look literally as as crystal clear as a human being 873 01:06:13.800 --> 01:06:16.239 standing right next to you. Can you only imagine the kind of filmmaking that 874 01:06:16.320 --> 01:06:19.800 will be. Can you imagine where like kids will be in there in their 875 01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:27.559 garages with Holi decks shooting the next Avengers endgame will look like an indie film 876 01:06:28.519 --> 01:06:30.800 exactly, And like you can imagine a world where you put up the holid 877 01:06:30.800 --> 01:06:34.679 deck like wallpaper, right, you put up the stream like wallpaper, just 878 01:06:34.719 --> 01:06:38.639 like gaining it on, rolling it on, and that type of thing, 879 01:06:38.960 --> 01:06:41.639 and then it all self coordinates. You know, goes, okay, this 880 01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:44.920 is you know what position I am in the world and everything like that. 881 01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:47.440 Like it's not that it's not that difficult to imagine it. Like, I 882 01:06:47.440 --> 01:06:53.480 think the technology exists right now. What doesn't exist right now is the will 883 01:06:53.760 --> 01:06:59.039 and the actual use case that would demand that investment together. Right, That's 884 01:06:59.119 --> 01:07:02.960 that's what we're working and we're trying to find those partners. And it's folks 885 01:07:03.079 --> 01:07:10.079 in location based entertainment, it's folks in training and education. It's also folks 886 01:07:10.159 --> 01:07:15.519 in the defence industry. We're having some conversations imagine. So so there's all 887 01:07:15.559 --> 01:07:19.320 sorts of use cases for that, but you know, until we find that 888 01:07:19.440 --> 01:07:23.519 perfect one, it's it's it's not going to happen. So that that's what 889 01:07:23.639 --> 01:07:27.320 that's what our job is as a company and as a business right to talk 890 01:07:27.360 --> 01:07:31.039 to have conversations with these decision makers and go what is actually going to get 891 01:07:31.039 --> 01:07:35.000 the money to flow and what what are the requirements that we can hit that 892 01:07:35.079 --> 01:07:39.320 we can hit now they're going to get that money to flow and actually make 893 01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:44.599 investment happen. So that's that's really my work as a CEO is helping folks 894 01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:48.000 see that. I've been successful in doing that in filmmaking now with this technology 895 01:07:48.480 --> 01:07:53.519 with airwell interactive going out and filmmaking out of media out into the rest of 896 01:07:53.559 --> 01:07:58.440 the world. I'm having very interesting conversations where they're you know, they're aware 897 01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:01.280 of Mandalorian, They're aware of the work that's been happening, because this is 898 01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:08.639 something that broke out even just of the entertainment community. So we're having conversations 899 01:08:08.679 --> 01:08:13.559 where that amazing work that has been done in film and TV is actually moving 900 01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:17.079 the ball in other industries because they're like, you know what Jon Favreau did 901 01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:21.880 it, maybe that'll work for our thing too. It's a really weird time, 902 01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:27.119 and I think the pandemic has supercharged all of this. I mean, 903 01:08:27.159 --> 01:08:30.479 this is all something that would have happened eventually, Like we would have all 904 01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:34.720 eventually gone to more streaming than theatrical the writing was on the wall, all 905 01:08:34.800 --> 01:08:39.520 this technology, it would still be moving forward. I think it just sped 906 01:08:39.520 --> 01:08:44.640 it up probably a few years in time frame where it would have been. 907 01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:47.720 So it is, it is what it is in regards to what we're dealing 908 01:08:47.720 --> 01:08:54.000 with with the pandemic. But there is some benefits because people are like zoom 909 01:08:54.039 --> 01:08:57.239 like now everybody. I don't know, if you've been driving around La traffic's 910 01:08:57.239 --> 01:09:00.439 fantastic, like this is this is like it's but this is a wonderful place 911 01:09:00.439 --> 01:09:03.039 to live now, like all of a sudden, like I drove to Santa 912 01:09:03.079 --> 01:09:08.520 Monica last weekend. It took me thirty five minutes. Oh yeah, I 913 01:09:08.600 --> 01:09:11.760 live in the valley. That's an hour and a half normally. Exactly. 914 01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:15.560 Yeah, yeah, because everyone's working at home exactly. We're almost back to 915 01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:18.159 the clueless days where you know, I think the famous line and slu list 916 01:09:18.239 --> 01:09:23.840 is everywhere in la is twenty minutes and it's away. Yes, and we're 917 01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:27.600 almost there. We're getting under forty Yeah, they're forty minutes. We're going 918 01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:30.159 to get their sun ta. Yeah. I agree with you, so Ree, 919 01:09:30.199 --> 01:09:32.000 I appreciate you being on the show man. I want to ask you 920 01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:34.840 a few questions, ask all my guests, what advice would you give a 921 01:09:34.840 --> 01:09:39.960 filmmaker trying to break into the business today, besides obviously buying an ar wall 922 01:09:40.960 --> 01:09:44.279 FX studio home studio, Ian HAIRFX home studio. No, I think, 923 01:09:45.279 --> 01:09:47.960 I mean, I think my real answer probably tracks with that pretty well, 924 01:09:48.359 --> 01:09:55.000 which is, you know, I think anybody can see that the media entertainment 925 01:09:55.039 --> 01:10:00.720 industry is undergoing a transition, right now we'll be right back after a word 926 01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:09.119 from our sponsor, and now back to the show. And you don't want 927 01:10:09.159 --> 01:10:11.680 to be on the wrong side of that transition. You don't want to be 928 01:10:12.199 --> 01:10:15.600 of the mentality of you know, I'm going to need making half a billion 929 01:10:15.640 --> 01:10:19.119 dollar movies and we're going to be putting out in theaters and everybody. You 930 01:10:19.119 --> 01:10:24.920 know, we're going to put money in our ears and you know stream and 931 01:10:25.039 --> 01:10:27.960 you know that's that, And that's what filmmaking is going to be. I 932 01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:31.239 think it's shifted, and I think that a successful filmmaker now is somebody who 933 01:10:31.359 --> 01:10:36.920 understands their audience, who understands who's coming to their films, listens to those 934 01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:42.880 people, and doesn't listen to anybody else, Because that's that's the reality right 935 01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:45.039 now. In order to be a successful creator, you've got to be selective 936 01:10:45.079 --> 01:10:48.800 about who you're listening to. I think that's the big one right now. 937 01:10:49.720 --> 01:10:54.359 You know, a project that is that is successful, is going to work 938 01:10:54.399 --> 01:10:58.760 on Hulu, isn't necessarily going to be successful in work on Disney Plus. 939 01:10:59.119 --> 01:11:02.479 And that's just a reality that we live in right now, that these are 940 01:11:02.520 --> 01:11:09.800 sidled audiences happening. So I think the idea of mainstream filmmaking as a whole 941 01:11:10.560 --> 01:11:15.600 has fundamentally collapsed and changed. I don't think that when when you think of 942 01:11:15.640 --> 01:11:19.760 a mainstream film, we're probably thinking of that, you know, Avengers Endgame 943 01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:23.199 of that type of thing, and I think moving forward, it's going to 944 01:11:23.199 --> 01:11:26.640 be a different type of film that we're probably thinking about. And to be 945 01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:29.399 frank, it's probably not even going to be a film. It's probably going 946 01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:31.880 to be a TV show, a TV series, a limited series or something 947 01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:35.399 like that. Raised by Wolves, I think is a really good example. 948 01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:38.840 I don't know if you've been watching that, and I haven't seen any about 949 01:11:38.840 --> 01:11:41.479 it. It's on my list, you know what, Really Scott, that's 950 01:11:41.520 --> 01:11:45.119 a really good example because it's almost it's it's a post really Scott film, 951 01:11:45.279 --> 01:11:49.479 you know, it's it's pitched as a really Scott universe, but in reality, 952 01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:54.920 you know, it's a TV show, and really Scott's projects are films 953 01:11:55.279 --> 01:11:59.920 traditionally, So it's in my opinion, it's somebody who looked at the mob 954 01:12:00.199 --> 01:12:04.199 that really Scott had has mastered and has really you know, gone out of 955 01:12:04.239 --> 01:12:10.199 his way to nail and then taking that and transplanting that into this, you 956 01:12:10.239 --> 01:12:13.079 know, post transition world that we live in, and that's I think a 957 01:12:13.119 --> 01:12:17.079 good project for people to think about moving forward. How it takes traditional familiar 958 01:12:18.079 --> 01:12:24.359 symbology, story structure and just does it in a different way. And I 959 01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:27.680 think that's what successful filmmaking is going to be like in the future. And 960 01:12:27.720 --> 01:12:30.119 so technology is a big component of that. You know, virtual production. 961 01:12:30.239 --> 01:12:33.319 I don't think it's going to go away anytime soon. So in this in 962 01:12:33.359 --> 01:12:38.600 the same way that you know, you and I were, you know, 963 01:12:38.680 --> 01:12:44.600 I think saw success in moving into digital video as a as a as a 964 01:12:44.640 --> 01:12:48.560 creative a tool for us, as a crucial creative tool for us, and 965 01:12:49.119 --> 01:12:56.880 long linear editing as well. I think that same virtual production is going to 966 01:12:56.920 --> 01:13:00.520 be that same tool of empowerment for filmmakers were coming up right now. Like 967 01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:04.880 if you're if you graduate, if you just graduated for film school, and 968 01:13:05.199 --> 01:13:10.159 you want to get a job in Hollywood, go and make a project on 969 01:13:10.199 --> 01:13:14.760 a real engine, make a little one minute thing on an real engine, 970 01:13:15.680 --> 01:13:18.479 then email me, I will freaking hire you. Because there's so few people 971 01:13:18.840 --> 01:13:24.720 that have both filmmaking experience and in real engine experience. It's just not something 972 01:13:24.720 --> 01:13:27.039 that people are looking at right now. And I think that those for those 973 01:13:27.039 --> 01:13:30.600 who do it's going to be very successful. And what is the lesson that 974 01:13:30.600 --> 01:13:32.319 took you the longest to learn, whether in the film business or in life? 975 01:13:40.680 --> 01:13:44.960 This is this is something, This is something definitely something that took me 976 01:13:44.960 --> 01:13:48.600 a long time to learn. I was born and raised in Silicon Valley and 977 01:13:49.479 --> 01:13:53.920 we uh, you know, we're a bunch of tech heads in Silicon Valley 978 01:13:53.920 --> 01:13:57.359 where you know, we all think that we're smarter than everyone else. Basically 979 01:13:57.439 --> 01:14:00.479 is what is you know, the nice way to say it? And and 980 01:14:00.640 --> 01:14:05.399 I think coming out of that culture, coming to LA and really dealing with 981 01:14:05.439 --> 01:14:13.039 people in a wide spanded industries, you see just how empowering technology is to 982 01:14:13.079 --> 01:14:15.880 people, but also how intimidating it can be to people. So I think 983 01:14:15.920 --> 01:14:20.479 the what I what I The thing that took me the longest to learn is 984 01:14:21.319 --> 01:14:27.880 you have to be patient and you have to be forgiving for people's familiarity and 985 01:14:27.920 --> 01:14:34.119 knowledge with technology. And you if you can't be that person that takes a 986 01:14:34.319 --> 01:14:43.199 difficult technological process and task and makes that easy for someone to understand or use 987 01:14:43.319 --> 01:14:47.720 or analyze or whatever, that's a friend and a partner and the collaboratory that 988 01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:50.399 you're going to have for a long time. But if you're the type of 989 01:14:50.439 --> 01:14:55.279 person that goes they don't get the tech, screw them. You know, 990 01:14:55.319 --> 01:15:00.680 they're dumb, they're stupid, they're they're you know, old fam they don't 991 01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:04.319 get it. Then all of a sudden you become part of the problem because 992 01:15:04.359 --> 01:15:09.279 that person sees you as an obstacle or something. So that that's the thing 993 01:15:09.279 --> 01:15:12.920 that took me the longest to learn. Being good at technology and being a 994 01:15:13.000 --> 01:15:16.520 master at your tools is a way for you to bring people up. It's 995 01:15:16.520 --> 01:15:19.640 a way for you to bring people up. It's not a division between you 996 01:15:19.760 --> 01:15:24.439 and the other person. It's not we're over here, we know tech and 997 01:15:24.479 --> 01:15:28.279 we know everything and you guys don't. Because at the end of the day, 998 01:15:28.560 --> 01:15:30.680 no, the reason that that person hasn't learned the tech is because they've 999 01:15:30.680 --> 01:15:35.319 been busting their ass mastering some other part of the creative process, some other 1000 01:15:35.399 --> 01:15:40.479 part of the business process, and their masters at that. And you're master 1001 01:15:40.560 --> 01:15:44.039 at this and they're master at that, and together you can make some magic 1002 01:15:44.079 --> 01:15:47.239 and you can make something happen that never would have been possible before. That's 1003 01:15:47.239 --> 01:15:54.039 how I created this company, ar Well. This is a multidisciplinary multifaceted company. 1004 01:15:54.199 --> 01:15:57.520 Not everyone in the company is a full tech head. Some people are 1005 01:15:57.800 --> 01:16:00.800 more creative, some people they're artists, some people are their business people. 1006 01:16:01.640 --> 01:16:05.600 And being able to get all these people in the room talking to each other 1007 01:16:05.640 --> 01:16:10.239 respectfully and coming up with solutions that are going to be helpful to the entire 1008 01:16:10.279 --> 01:16:15.000 industry is so amazing. It's such an amazing experience to have. I wish 1009 01:16:15.079 --> 01:16:17.479 I would have done it at every prior company that I found it. I 1010 01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:23.000 founded three companies prior to this, and I definitely didn't think that way. 1011 01:16:23.640 --> 01:16:26.359 You know, I wanted it to be, you know, birds of a 1012 01:16:26.399 --> 01:16:30.199 feather all together, and it just doesn't work that way. You need people 1013 01:16:30.239 --> 01:16:33.079 who think differently for me, and I think that's the thing that took me 1014 01:16:33.079 --> 01:16:36.399 the longest to learn. And finally, what are three of your favorite films 1015 01:16:36.439 --> 01:16:43.000 of all time? Okay, three favorite films, So Vertigo and Shining. 1016 01:16:43.359 --> 01:16:48.319 The Shining are usually at the top. Vertigo for me is just it's the 1017 01:16:48.399 --> 01:16:57.039 quintessential film. Just the analysis of subjectivity and so just the delusion of trying 1018 01:16:57.039 --> 01:17:00.600 to recreate a moment from the past. I think that's exactly what's it's all 1019 01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:04.760 about. And then the Shining. It's just a terrifying film. It's it's 1020 01:17:04.760 --> 01:17:09.039 one of those it's one of those films that really got me because I I 1021 01:17:09.159 --> 01:17:11.960 for saw it. I was about the same age as Danny, So it's 1022 01:17:11.960 --> 01:17:15.760 just like just watching that movie. Like I said, my dad is really 1023 01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:18.760 into cinema and she was watching stuff I probably shouldn't have been watching at a 1024 01:17:18.760 --> 01:17:23.359 young age. But it's shining for sure. And then I guess for the 1025 01:17:23.399 --> 01:17:25.720 third one, I got to put Dune in there just because it did. 1026 01:17:25.920 --> 01:17:30.159 It did was the catalyst for for me going into film and just just surged 1027 01:17:30.199 --> 01:17:35.600 my imagination as a kid, just thinking about that universe and what was possible 1028 01:17:35.640 --> 01:17:42.640 in filmmaking. So I'm like obviously really looking forward to the Dune coming out, 1029 01:17:42.680 --> 01:17:46.279 which now apparently they're pushing it back. I did have a mini heart 1030 01:17:46.279 --> 01:17:50.560 attack when that got delayed a full year. But yeah, I'm really looking 1031 01:17:50.560 --> 01:17:54.520 forward. I'm really really looking forward to that project and that And that's a 1032 01:17:54.560 --> 01:17:58.319 perfect example. You said something so interesting earlier. Used to like this was 1033 01:17:58.319 --> 01:18:00.640 a movie made pre COVID, trying to release in post COVID, and the 1034 01:18:00.760 --> 01:18:04.239 numbers don't make sense. That's why James Bond is having such a difficult time. 1035 01:18:04.359 --> 01:18:09.720 That's why The Wonder Woman and Black Widow and all these movies that were 1036 01:18:09.720 --> 01:18:14.079 made prior. They just don't this this business model doesn't make sense, and 1037 01:18:14.119 --> 01:18:17.279 the studios have no idea what to do. So I get it. I 1038 01:18:17.319 --> 01:18:18.920 get that, an hold it, like, look, we'll just put it 1039 01:18:18.920 --> 01:18:23.479 on the shelf for a year and see what happens. I get it. 1040 01:18:23.479 --> 01:18:25.760 It sucks. I look, I want to see all these movies. It 1041 01:18:25.840 --> 01:18:28.800 sucks. I want it now. I wonder. No, don't you know 1042 01:18:28.880 --> 01:18:31.039 somebody you could get a little a quick screen or somewhere, don't you know 1043 01:18:31.079 --> 01:18:40.159 people? Yeah, I mean they probably got that underguard. You know, 1044 01:18:40.319 --> 01:18:43.159 no way anyone's going to get their hands on that if they did, could 1045 01:18:43.159 --> 01:18:47.920 you imagine, I mean just just like just like crumbling. Yeah. I 1046 01:18:47.880 --> 01:18:53.039 remember when Wolverine. The Wolverine got released early, like a week early. 1047 01:18:53.159 --> 01:18:57.560 Oh god, that's brutal. That was brutal. And where can people find 1048 01:18:57.600 --> 01:19:00.159 you and the good work you're doing over at aarwall. Yeah, So if 1049 01:19:00.199 --> 01:19:04.840 you're interested in reaching out to us, you can email us at hello at 1050 01:19:05.079 --> 01:19:11.359 arwall dot co, or you can go to our website that's arwall dot co 1051 01:19:12.319 --> 01:19:15.119 and on our website, you can find more information about the products that we 1052 01:19:15.159 --> 01:19:19.039 sell, as well as airfxom Studio, our newest product which was released during 1053 01:19:19.039 --> 01:19:24.520 the pandemic for Creators at Home. Renee Man, thank you so much. 1054 01:19:24.600 --> 01:19:28.119 This has been an epic conversation. I just wanted to keep asking you questions 1055 01:19:28.119 --> 01:19:30.520 and questions because I'm fascinated by this new technology and I do think it is 1056 01:19:30.600 --> 01:19:36.800 going to be the future is a very big component of the future of filmmaking, 1057 01:19:36.880 --> 01:19:41.720 especially post COVID, so I truly appreciate you coming on the show and 1058 01:19:41.760 --> 01:19:44.119 continue doing the good work you're doing. Over to Ao Walman, thank you 1059 01:19:44.119 --> 01:19:46.000 so much. Thank you so much for having me Alex, I really appreciate 1060 01:19:46.000 --> 01:19:50.560 it. I want to thank Renee for coming on the show and dropping those 1061 01:19:50.680 --> 01:19:56.439 virtual production knowledge bombs on the tribe today. Thank you again so much. 1062 01:19:56.479 --> 01:19:59.560 Guys. If you want to get access to anything we spoke about in this 1063 01:19:59.640 --> 01:20:06.159 episode, including links to Arwall Arwalls Home Studio and my recent article on virtual 1064 01:20:06.199 --> 01:20:12.279 production, just head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot TV Forward 1065 01:20:12.319 --> 01:20:15.359 Slash three sixty two. Thank you so much for listening, guys. As 1066 01:20:15.399 --> 01:20:17.880 always, keep on writing, no matter what I'll talk to you soon. 1067 01:20:18.359 --> 01:20:24.720 Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproofscreenwriting dot tv.