WEBVTT

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At the post. So don't touch
that side us a funny. Don't touch

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down side bunny branches. So test
my sadun don just t dust us try

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n guy spot time type dust or
snow days tis very body guys back snap

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got time start a start try g
dscus type a sky track din start type

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stop side to the black starts nail
shin up and we are alive and continuing.

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We're getting down to the points.
Oh whoa, whoa, whoa.

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Hold on, there we go,
there we go. Okay, little technical

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glitch right at the beginning. The
o'celly effect is live. That's why you

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hear stuff like that. Okay.
It is March to twenty sixth, twenty

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fifteen. Okay, so you know, look the new intro. I'm happy

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with it. I wanted to make
sure that Jefferson Morley wasn't a liar when

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he said I had a spooky kind
of intro. So there you go.

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Anyway, tonight we're doing something that
I've been wanting to do for a very

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long time. Okay, we all
know if you've listened to my show that

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JFK is one of those areas of
interest for me. The assassination the intrigue

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that surrounded the situation, exactly what
caused it, exactly what happened to our

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country as a result of November twenty
second, nineteen sixty three. Of course,

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that has to do with the adventures
of going into the Vietnam War,

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et cetera, et cetera, and
all of the other divinations that did occur

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afterwards. And we can argue about
that, and we can discuss it,

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and we can say that maybe Kennedy
was the last actual president we had.

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We could say all those kinds of
things. But here's what the problem is.

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Not only does the mainstream media and
the apologists for the Warrant Commission like

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to perpetrate their fictions upon us,
but there are those who are more conspiracy

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minded who seem to be perpetrating all
sorts of wonderful fairy tales on us.

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Now, this isn't an attack on
any particular person or any particular set of

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people. This is an attack on
the nonsense, the absolute garbage, which

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has been absolutely counterproductive to the work
that you know, a fool like myself

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spends half of his lifetime sinking money, effort, time, energy, heartache,

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aggravation and health. That was just
reading Bugliosi's book. And that laugh

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right there comes from a return guest, Carmine Sabastano. How are you I'm

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doing okay? Uh see, it's
not all about the vowels though. Don't

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worry, because we also have a
couple of other people on with us tonight,

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and I'm really happy. This is
the first time they've been on.

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And that's Trish Fleming and Zach.
You know what's funny about Zach is I

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actually don't know how to pronounce his
last name. I've only ever read it,

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I've never said it. And I
realized that when I was going to

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air. So I'd like it if
you guys introduced yourselves. Go ahead and

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on mute. Hey, how you
doing. There's Trish, Tris Fleming and

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yes, where's Zach Ahi, it's
Zach, It's Jendro Kedro thank you.

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Yeah, yeah, just as it
looks well. You know, it's a

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surprise, because sometimes you look at
somebody's name and it's not you know,

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the jay is silent, that he
is actually an a you don't know.

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You know, they're not a problem, not a problem. They're nice to

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hear from you, Chuck, good
to be here, absolutely see. This

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goes to show you that I don't
script a damn thing on this show.

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I never do that because it's good. It fresh. Listen, I believe

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in the organic conversation. And I
know it sounds like I'm in a jovial

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mood, but really I am irritated
beyond belief and have been dying to do

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this show. Okay, well,
we're happy to be part of it,

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Chuck oh Man. And I'm so
glad that I have allies here to do

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this with, because otherwise, you
know, it's just Chuck screaming about you

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know, certain people. Yeah,
and the nonsense that they push, and

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it's just well, you know,
they disagree with Chuck, so therefore no,

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no, no, no, they
just stop it with reality. Yeah.

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Anyway, I'd like you to go
ahead and speak your mind about why

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it is we're doing this and everything. I know we're starting off a little

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slow, but I wanted to lay
the groundwork so we make sense of this.

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No, that sounds great. I
actually would like to start with a

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definition of myth for everyone. Perfect. A myth is a traditional or legendary

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story concerning an event with or without
the terminal basis of fact or natural explanation

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can't say it any better than that, and this is the area we're going

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to cover, and they can.
People are free to disagree. We're not

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saying these are definitive. We are
saying we've looked at a lot of evidence

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and none of these things stand up. So we believe that they are a

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waste of our time and our community's
time. Now people can pursue them as

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much as they like, but until
they get some evidence, they don't mean

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anything exactly. And I don't know
Zach Ortrish, either one of you if

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you want to add to what it
is that is, it's like the motive

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behind why you wanted to be involved
in this show speak for yourselves. I'd

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like I'd like to divide in the
research community to stop. I mean,

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you know, there's there's so much
left and right going on that at the

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end of the day, we're all
just spinning our tires. No one's going

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to solve this by themselves. We
need to work together. There has to

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be some sort of mutual understanding and
mutual respect amongst the researchers. And it

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can't be loan that are against conspiracy
theorists anymore. It's more about solid research

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versus myth makers. Yep, m
h yeah, yeah, I would totally

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agree with that. I think that, you know, go ahead, Carmine,

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Oh, I'm sorry, Zach No, no, no, I talk

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enough you you I'll go after well. I think that it's important. I

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have a historian background, and I
think it's important. One of the main

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things I learned is that when you're
first starting research, as you continue down

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that path, is that you have
to eliminate things that are you know,

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stumbling blocks, things that don't add
up, because all it's doing is is

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preventing you from getting to the truth. And that goes with any topic,

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but something that involves so much mystery
and intrigue, you have to be especially

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careful and try to you know,
I don't want to use the word garbage,

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but you have to toss out what
isn't as useful as the other bits.

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You have to or you're going to
be sitting there forever spinning your wheels.

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See there you go, and I'll
tell you something. I'm going to

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dedicate my portion of this little show
to a very seldom heard name in the

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research community, which is doctor Roger
Remington. Okay, because this is the

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guy who I have had many conversations
with over the years who has kept me

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in check regarding a lot of this
about trying to rely on tangible things as

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opposed to the theoretical, as opposed
to the fanciful. He's basically a warrant

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commission deconstruction is for the most part. Okay, But he's also a historian,

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you know, retired professor from Aquinas
College. I don't know if you

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guys have ever even heard of him? What four books out on the assassination?

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Uh? The best, the best
known one is probably Biting the Elephant.

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Okay, Well, that's why I
like your show, Chuck It.

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I'll help you find some new stuff. I'll look him up, definitely look

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him up. Self published and actually
is working on his final book on the

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case, so a new, a
new volume will come out from him shortly.

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And believe it, when this guy
says something, he backs it up

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not only with documentation, but with
actual you know, attempting to and speaking

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to and going to the sources as
best he can and things like that,

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you know, actual research. A
man after my own heart. You got

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it, you got it, and
I mean and the guy doesn't make a

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statement without you know, having not
one reference for it, but probably four

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for each statement. Fancy that facts
who knew, facts that are verified and

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reverified. A strange world, isn't
it. I know, I don't understand

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why we even have to discuss this. Oh, but unfortunately it is because

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especially in the electronic age. And
and see, this went on before the

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Internet. Okay. I know you
guys might not realize this, but this

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kind of stuff was going on long
before the Internet. And I don't know

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where you want to start exactly.
I know that Carmine and I kind of

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came up with a bullet point list
of places to start with, the like

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we picked the worst stuff we could
think of. Okay, And but here's

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the thing. Just I have an
ex discussion with Zach and I've had no

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discussion with Trish. I'd like you
guys to pick something. I guarantee you

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it's on this list. Well,
let's see. I mean, you could

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start with something. In my mind, I mean, the things like Badgeman

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and you know, the umbrella man
and what he meant at the scene and

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things like that. I mean,
where do you go with that in the

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long term of it. There's no
fact to really support any of that,

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And people kind of like to build
their stories around this. All of a

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sudden, Badgemen went from a shadow
to becoming the assassin. And I mean

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that would seem to be somewhat mythological. I would think, you know,

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based upon the fact there's no evidence
of anything to back that up. Please

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take the pictures out first. I
argue about those so much. Okay,

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let's begin there. The first statement
I want to make is that primarily the

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original mistakes made on this stuff were
made in a time when the technology was

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not there to verify a lot of
things. You would end up with blurs.

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You'd end up with reprints of things
that created greater shadows. You know,

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you'd end up with all sorts of
interesting anomalies and photographs. Okay.

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And some people seized upon them because
they were looking, they were digging,

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they were going through piles of you
know, needles, looking for the needle,

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all right, and I understand that, right. But as we evolved,

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Okay, as we went from the
sixties to the seventies and so on

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and so forth, I lost my
taste for this kind of stuff. Because

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what happened is every time, you
know, you went and did a scientific

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analysis to see if it was even
physically feasibly possible for half of these things

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to exist. Doesn't work. Yep, they're guessing. They're doing their best

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guests off of most of the time
a copy or at best something they took

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from a site that never had an
original in the first place. That's like

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when you said you have the Fox
originals. Those are solid, Those are

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from a source that can be authenticated. They mean something, they're evidence.

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But when I hear people say,
well I have this picture and if there's

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fifteen shots, I just want to
kill myself, It's like, now,

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it doesn't It doesn't prove any of
that. You're just going on about nothing

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and wasting everyone's time. See.
I had that terrible experience on a show

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which I'm not going to name here, but on a show with somebody who

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was discussing Doorway Man with me.
For the listeners who don't know, there

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was an associated press photographer there,
okay, whose name is Altkins. Therefore

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his photographs have been named thereafter the
Alkins photographs. In Altkins six, if

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memory serves me correctly, there is
a portion of the photograph which is position

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just above the limousine on the print
where the doorway of the school book depository

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can be seen. For many years, people argued that Oswald was in the

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doorway at the time of the shooting
because the limousine is in such a position

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that there is no way if Oswald
was in that doorway, which seems logical.

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If Oswald was in the doorway,
he could not have fired to shots

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from the sixth floor. That's fine
and dandy. The problem is the evidence.

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The evidence doesn't work, none of
it. None of it, I

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mean absolutely none of it. Now, I was on a show and somebody

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was presenting me with an internet photograph
taken from the John McAdams website. Okay,

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I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. Now there are Let me say

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this for our friends on hopefully what
will not long be the other side,

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and those who use evidence will join
us. I think everybody has something to

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contribute, but people need to be
more honest about the politics. There's a

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lot of politics in this that have
absolutely nothing to do with the case,

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and Professor McAdams is one of the
people who spins those politics. Now,

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I respect some of his work,
but I do not respect the way that

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he plays around with people. No, absolutely, and I would say the

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same thing. As a matter of
fact, he's probably one of the least

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nasty guys that I've had to deal
with from that side. Now that's a

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strange statement, right, the one
you have. Yeah, but he's probably

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one of the least nasty guys from
that side. Okay, again, I

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don't want personal discussions. But meanwhile, this is a reproduction of a reproduction

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of a reproduction on mcadam's website.
Okay, fine, I yank out of

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a folder while I'm sitting there talking
to this individual on his radio show,

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my copy of the one that I
got from the Chicago Tribune archives. Okay,

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secondary source beats tertiary source. That's
what I thought. And I examined

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it under magnification and can't find the
same anomalies that he sees. And then

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he corrects me about you know,
I use the word distortion because he says,

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well, notice this year, this
person's face is coming out of a

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wall. And I looked at it
and I said, well, that's a

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distortion in the photograph. And then
I was corrected by being told that distortions

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are only characterized as things like barrel
distortion, pincushion distortion, and I'm like,

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no, if you understand optics at
all, there is all sorts of

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distortions that can occur in the image. Pincushion and barrel distortion are two types

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of distortion. They are not exclusively
the only types of distortion that can occur

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in a photograph. That's the wrong
person to argue with it here. Well,

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you know, I thought so.
But again, you know, I'm

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one of these guys who obviously just
has this crazy agenda about looking at something

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as close to the primary source as
possible. You know, I know,

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we're mad man madman evidence. Who
could think, well, anyway, the

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photographic evidence, well, you know
it's yeah, good, Oh, I'm

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sorry, this is Zach. It's
really vital to understand. With my background,

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I worked with a lot of archives
and I've tried to focus mostly on

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photographs, and it's really important that
you have as close to the original source

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material as possible, and if possible, you could, you know, do

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a high resolution scan off of the
original negative. And what you know,

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what people don't quite understand sometimes,
and you know, is that the more

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like you're saying, the further you
get from the original, the more deluded

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the quality gets. And you don't
know what you're looking at anymore. Now,

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speaking of photographic evidence where you don't
know what you're looking at, just

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really quickly. There's been a lot
of mistakes and a lot of shadows that

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people have turned into people in a
lot of different photographs. And I mean

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in depository windows, on the grassy, no, everywhere. There's a huge

210
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amount of them. But let's talk
about one of the most famous misdirections in

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photographic evidence where you have a delusion
of the image. Okay, and that

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would be, Hey, the limo
driver shot him. Yep, uh,

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okay, anybody, I'll throw it
out there, any one of you,

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go right ahead. Cooper, this
is the the Bill Cooper synopsis where he

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or synopsis, excuse me, the
Bill Cooper hypothesis. I was being nice,

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But this is the Bill Cooper hypothesis
where he says that he knows for

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sure that the limo driver shot him
in the face, and then goes on

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to tell us that it was with
a certain kind of gun and that was

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poison and all this other stuff.
Okay. The problem here is that not

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only does he say that, but
he says it's backed up by documents that

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he saw while he was working with
the Pacific Fleet somewhere, which has nothing

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to do with the Secret Service in
the nineteen seventies. So it was verified

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by that wrong, there's no reason
for that documentation to have passed over his

224
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desk, even if he was in
such a position to see such classified documents.

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Okay, so that's the end of
that story. But the real problem

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here is that there was a misrepresented
it zu Bruder film, which anybody want

227
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to talk about the condition of that
film. I think that Zach's the expert.

228
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I'm willing to weigh in once they
do. Well, what version are

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00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:06.559
we talking about? What would generally
be called the Cooper version of this Zabruter

230
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:11.759
film? Oh? Yes, you
know, I've tried to attract that down.

231
00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:15.799
I might have some friends that have, you know, a lot of

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faith in Bill Cooper. He's got
quite a reputation among conspiratorial minded people.

233
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And does it it appears in his
film? Isn't it something like There Rides

234
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:30.240
a Dark Horse or something like that. Well, actually, I'll tell you

235
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what the history is without a problem, because sad say, somewhere around nineteen

236
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ninety, and I do believe it
might have been more like nineteen eighty nine.

237
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When I first got involved in the
case, I used to do something

238
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called videotape trading, where I would
trade videotapes of all sorts of rare things

239
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with other people through the mail.
I know it sounds like a really crazy

240
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arcade idea, but believe me,
it used to happen. Work we thankfully

241
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do not have to do anymore.
Right. But the thing is that I

242
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:08.400
actually received one of the Bill Cooper
productions during that time, which means that

243
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I got probably the second or third
version that he put out from him.

244
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Okay, wow, So what that
was called was Assassin Unmasked. Originally that

245
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was the graphic that he put on
it with. I figured it out later

246
00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:27.599
was a gold Star VCR that you
could actually insert graphics into videotapes with if

247
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you used it properly. Okay,
anyway, this is what he used,

248
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:38.559
and he had a very very like
I don't know how many generations removed from

249
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a broadcast of the Zubruder film that
he utilized in his presentation. So what

250
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:51.640
happens to a videotape when you keep
recording it onto another videotape A copy of

251
00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:56.240
a copy of it grades and the
image begins to blur, the colors begin

252
00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.039
to melt into one another. A
lot of odd things happen, and this

253
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film, again is not exactly the
highest quality to begin with. Yeah,

254
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:10.279
okay, but the problem is,
of course, technology being what it was

255
00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:12.559
in the late eighties. This is
what he presented as. And if you

256
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:15.920
look at this thing, and you
know, at a glance, at an

257
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undeducated glance, you could almost believe
that there is a gun in the film.

258
00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:23.240
Okay. The problem is if you
look at a clear version of the

259
00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:26.519
film, you know there's no gun. You know exactly what that shiny thing

260
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:32.240
is. You know why it seems
as though, you know, the hand

261
00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:36.000
goes one way when it doesn't actually
go anywhere, and everything else, if

262
00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:38.119
you look at a clear copy of
it, if you look at even a

263
00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:44.079
remotely clear copy of the Suppruter film, you won't see this. It's not

264
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:48.240
there. Yeah, And I think
that's the unfortunate case of a lot of

265
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these things, is that people want
to believe there's something there, but without

266
00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:57.400
evidence of it, it doesn't matter. We're just arguing endlessly about things we

267
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:03.000
cannot prove, So why are we
add about them? No? I hear

268
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:04.440
you, and I want to hear
from Trisha on some of this stuff too,

269
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So please get involved, Trish,
because I'm I appreciate that, thank

270
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you, because I'll talk way too
much yourself under the bus, buddy,

271
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It's okay. I think it's important
to follow the history of whose hands actually

272
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touched everything. For example, Uh, and this is just my opinion,

273
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but Robert Groden was the first one
who brought it out obviously a Good Night

274
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America. And I don't know if
people are familiar with his technique called rodentscoping,

275
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but it seems that every film that
came out at some point went through

276
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his hands one other. And I
think it's important because again, your information

277
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is only as credible as your source, and if the source is in question,

278
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then you have to question everything.
So again I think with all the

279
00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:56.799
photos, whether it be the MARIANN. Mormon photo, the Zapruder film,

280
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the nixt film, et cetera,
I think it's a extremely important to follow

281
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:04.799
where the original film went in the
history and who made copies and what generation

282
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that goes ampfold with dickta Belt for
example, I mean Gary Mack brought it

283
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:17.599
at during the HSCA committee and you
know later on Steve Barbara later disputed it

284
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:21.960
with acoustics findings, and I think
that it's very important to follow the history

285
00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:26.480
of the physical film itself. Yeah, and Trish raises a good point about

286
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:30.359
the Groden scoping, which is basically
like an animation technique, and when they

287
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:36.240
aired it on Goodnight America, he
basically interspersed it with different clips and he

288
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:38.680
wasn't explaining where it came from and
what he did, and people were trying

289
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:41.079
to you know, oh, is
this really what we're seeing here? And

290
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then you know, in reality,
no, that wasn't it. It was

291
00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:47.319
he you know, it was altered. And I not the point, you

292
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know, point blame, but that
happened. I mean even to the point

293
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where he had taken quite a few
films and basically spliced them together, so

294
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you have a moment by moment from
the time he turns off me Street onto

295
00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:06.400
Houston Street, there's different films that
he is spliced, which to a certain

296
00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:10.839
degree, again is modifying it to
make it as a one solid running film.

297
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:14.359
And again you have to take that
into account. He may not have

298
00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:18.119
manipulated in the sense where he's actually
changed things on the film, but at

299
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:22.160
the end of the day, you're
not viewing the original film, and I

300
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think that that's really important that the
actual physical film needs to be followed,

301
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:30.480
not only with just the pictures,
but who had their hands on it.

302
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.200
I mean, you know, the
more you dig into how many copies were

303
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:38.200
made, who got copies of any
of the films, it's really quite astonishing

304
00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:41.400
to realize that, you know,
it could have been tampered with with multiple

305
00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:47.559
different sources. And just the fact
that the Zebruder film has been spliced is

306
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:52.200
evidenced that it was modified some way. And again I'm not saying that anything

307
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:56.440
in regards to the actual headshot and
making his head go backwards versus forward,

308
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:00.440
et cetera. I'm saying that at
the end of the day, basically,

309
00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:03.960
because there is splices on it,
somewhere along the line, it was tampered

310
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:07.200
with, right And that, you
know, that could be one of the

311
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.640
bigger myths itself, is that,
you know, people believing that the Zapprouver

312
00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:15.680
film is a legit, you know, historical record of what took place,

313
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:19.880
and like Tris said, the fact
that even if one or two frames were

314
00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:25.279
removed, someone had a motive to
do so, and it is it's not

315
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:30.359
accurate anymore. I totally agree.
I think that this also goes into other

316
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.079
evidence as well, with the chain
of custody. How trist said, you

317
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:36.599
have to keep track. If the
chain of custody is broken, the evidence

318
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:38.680
is no good. You have to
then verify it with other evidence. And

319
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:44.720
so it was still verifiable. No, absolutely, Yes, that's exactly it.

320
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And the whole thing about exactly what
Groden did. We discussed that with

321
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cale Nick Jackson on this show actually
because she said, for the first time

322
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:57.000
anybody realized that, you know,
part of what Goroden was presenting that night

323
00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:02.799
on Good Night America was actually a
part of her grandfather's film. She said,

324
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:06.920
I didn't think anybody else saw it. I knew it right away.

325
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:11.680
That's exactly it. And he didn't
even make that clear as he was presenting

326
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:15.480
it. No, he said.
And again, just how he got access

327
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:21.920
to all these films is also very
unruly. I mean, there's no fear

328
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:26.880
cut indication of how Groden got these
films. Well, yeah, that's well,

329
00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:32.720
the Supruder film itself, there's kind
of a decent trail of of how

330
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:36.279
you can figure out how he got
his hands on that mechanics copy and all

331
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:41.200
of that, that's reasonable, but
when you get into the rest of the

332
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:48.640
nexus of Groden's collection, there's another
story. Wow exactly. Okay, Well,

333
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:52.240
I think that since you guys brought
up Groden so they can't blame me

334
00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:57.839
one of my problems with him.
He seems like a lovely fellow when I

335
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:03.160
met him in Daily Plaza. Seemed
pleasant. But he was one of the

336
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:07.359
attendees at what I like to call
the Judith Barry Baker Grave Party, where

337
00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:11.960
they all went to Oswald's grave and
basically threw a party and took pictures.

338
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:15.279
I have a problem with that.
I don't care about anyone in this case

339
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.279
personally, I don't know them.
I wasn't alive when they were. But

340
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:25.799
have a little respect. Don't go
to someone's grave and take pictures and make

341
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:29.079
an event out of it. How
about take your story, your myth,

342
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:32.279
as I like to call it,
and present it somewhere else where a dead

343
00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:37.799
body isn't buried. I don't know
who could argue with that. You know,

344
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:42.279
I didn't understand that when I heard
about it. I have not understood

345
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:47.160
a lot of the exploitation of a
lot of people that have since passed on

346
00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:52.440
and have had their words twisted around. Yeah, but that's I think part

347
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:53.839
of our deal. I think,
you know, people be like, what

348
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:57.240
drives you, Carmine, Well,
one of the things is all the dead

349
00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:03.599
people that so many people can plume
that the dead people deserve some respect from

350
00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:07.960
both sides. I didn't agree with
Jim Garrison, but he doesn't deserve to

351
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:11.319
be treated like scum. And I'm
tired of people doing it. I'm tired

352
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:15.039
of people treating people on the other
side like scum too. We're either going

353
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:19.200
to solve this together or we're going
to argue forever about nothing. And I

354
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:23.240
take this time to say to everybody
who is interested in the truth about nine

355
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:27.440
to eleven, you need to take
a lesson from this, because although the

356
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:33.039
technology is improved, believe me,
the same thing can happen there. You

357
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:37.279
know, if you legitimately believe that
a new investigation is required, take the

358
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:44.240
lessons from the JFK research community and
understand you can be held off for half

359
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:49.799
a century and on into perpetuity.
Okay by stuff like this. Well then

360
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:55.279
well, another thing that you know
you're hitting on, and this goes right

361
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:57.920
in with nine to eleven two,
is that these are people, and Carmen

362
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:03.920
hinted at this is that these are
people's memories. This isn't just some fantasy

363
00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:07.559
story that's a detective story that we
can sit and, you know, nitpick

364
00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:12.119
about for our own entertainment. There's
people's feelings, memories, family members involved

365
00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:17.279
in this, and you need to
be treated with respect. You're right.

366
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:19.400
I totally agree with all of you, and I hope that it starts to

367
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:22.680
carry across the community because I'm tired
of people, you know what. I

368
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:26.839
love the joke, as I'm sure
some of the people who debate me now,

369
00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:33.200
but I'll joke about subjects. I
don't joke about people. I don't

370
00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:37.000
go after people directly, though they
do love to come for me. Well,

371
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:44.039
and you know what, while we're
another, go ahead, don't go

372
00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:47.160
ahead. Sorry about that. Oh
it's okay. I was just gonna say,

373
00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:52.599
beyond the you're good, beyond the
memories of the beyond the memories of

374
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.160
the deceased, we have to take
into account the legacy of the people that

375
00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:59.440
are still with us and how they
were affected. I mean, one of

376
00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.279
the things of sat Trician Eye a
lot was the way that sometimes Marina Oswald

377
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:07.000
is being portrayed, and the way
that the memories of her and Lee Oswald

378
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.079
are being scattered about. I mean, you see, you know, fifty

379
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:15.319
year old rumors of their love life
being bandied about like it's just some sort

380
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:18.519
of barbershop gossip. And I mean
I find that offensive. I mean,

381
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:23.160
the Marina is still with us,
and obviously and her children and they that's

382
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.160
her, that's right, that's their
fami and their father, and I mean,

383
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.319
goodness, it's just seems to,
you know, get quite ugly at

384
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:34.039
times. I just think a lot
of this A lot of people don't understand

385
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:37.640
that, you know, fifty years
have passed, and people that are completely

386
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:42.720
innocent, for example, Marina's children, Marina Lee's children, this impacts them

387
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:48.960
daily, I mean, you know, and to have not only their fathers

388
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:52.640
smeared, but their mother being smeared
has to be difficult. And at the

389
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:56.519
end of the day, we need
to respect the fact that, you know,

390
00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:00.960
whether Lee was innocent or guilty,
his children are innocent bystanders in this

391
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:07.000
as grandchildren. And I think that
it comes down to just respecting the children.

392
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:10.960
I mean, again, they weren't
around when a lot of this was

393
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:12.440
happening, and if they were they
don't remember it, and I think it's

394
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:15.079
very important and I think that people
lose sight of that. Like Zach was

395
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:18.640
saying, these are real people,
a real situation. It's not just some

396
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.839
sort of movie that we're following.
And you know, it needs to be

397
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:27.319
recognized as traumatic event for a lot
of people, whether they were witnesses to

398
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:34.440
the actual assassination or you know,
indirectly involved with it. People need to

399
00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:41.480
respect that there are people that are
still attached to the memory of these people

400
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:48.079
that are being trashed and it's that
was personally. What alarms me is how

401
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:55.799
petty and how insignificant that these conversations
have become knocking everybody. And I'm not

402
00:31:55.880 --> 00:31:57.839
saying that I agree with everything Marina
says, and she's a saint by any

403
00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:00.960
means. What I'm saying is,
at the end of the day, whether

404
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:06.440
you respect what she had to say
in her testimony or not, at the

405
00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:09.079
end of the day, her children
deserve that respect. Yeah, And it's

406
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:14.119
one thing I think to discuss it
in Facebook or informs that I don't have

407
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:19.400
a problem with people criticizing, but
criticized with some evidence. Don't just criticize

408
00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:24.000
the criticize otherwise is waste this one's
time. Well, exactly. And Marina

409
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:29.319
is one of those people though that
I view regardless of what everybody else thinks

410
00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:32.400
of her. I view her as
an absolute victim because you know, look

411
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:37.240
at what she was faced with.
You know, immediately the government turned on

412
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:38.519
her. The whole country was going
to turn on her. You know,

413
00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:42.839
she's the wife of the assassin.
She's the COMMI wife of the assassin,

414
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:47.400
first of all. Then ever after
she's being chased down by people that are

415
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:52.359
trying to you know, elicit all
sorts of details from her that were really

416
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:57.000
inappropriate, and most of the time
she had no knowledge of. You know,

417
00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:00.000
she's continuously called on the confet for
things. And though she's remarried,

418
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:05.319
she's forever Marina Oswald, you know, and pretty much, I mean,

419
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:08.799
her children don't even have a public
life for the most part. Based on

420
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:13.880
this whole thing, exactly it,
Yeah, I think this might lead us

421
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:16.440
perfectly into somebody else you and I
wanted to put on the list, Chuck,

422
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:20.680
Well, go right ahead, Carmine, because I know where you're going.

423
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:28.440
If I may start, then Judith
very Baker, she to me,

424
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:32.839
represents one of the largest feasible myth
makers in our community, someone who has

425
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:45.240
wasted fifteen years of everyone's time.
Go ahead, Zach and Trish, because

426
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:51.799
good well, you know, I
really don't want to make this a personal

427
00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:55.200
attack on Judith, But in my
opinion, I think that if you're going

428
00:33:55.359 --> 00:34:00.000
to a plain a story such as
she has, again, not only is

429
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:04.279
evidence required, but on the same
token, of course, people are gonna

430
00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:06.920
pick it apart. I mean,
people are gonna analyze what she says,

431
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:10.639
They're going to look for new clues
based off her statements. And I really

432
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:17.719
do feel that sometimes the attitude from
her and the people that believe her and

433
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:23.400
are basing their belief solely on faith
that she's telling the truth, really do

434
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:28.639
end up making more of a divide
in the community than really what's necessary.

435
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:32.400
I mean, you know, it's
really a line drawn in the sand that

436
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:36.559
either you're with us or against us. If you know, for myself,

437
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:40.119
I've said this many times. You
can believe in a conspiracy and Lee's innocent

438
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:45.000
without believing her story. And that's
personally how I feel. I don't believe

439
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:50.559
Judy Baker at all. I really
don't. I really find that her story

440
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:54.519
is very well fabricated and woven in
to historic facts, but at the end

441
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:58.400
of the day, she doesn't have
anything to back it up other than some

442
00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:04.000
wts and she worked with all world. I think that people need to really

443
00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:07.440
analyze everything, and that's not just
with her story. That's with a lot

444
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:13.800
of researchers. You know, we're
still discussing the same stuff that was brought

445
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:17.039
up twenty five years ago. You
know, there's got to be more information

446
00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:21.519
out there, and I think that
people need to really kind of dig in

447
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:25.800
their heels and start analyzing everything from
square one. And I'm even talking about

448
00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:30.519
the Warm Commission, the HSCA,
and everything else that has been officially documented.

449
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:36.400
People need to go through every statement
with a fine toothcomb, and they

450
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.280
have to be unbiased about it.
If you go in with the attitude that

451
00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:43.480
Lee's innocent, of course you're not
going to notice anything else. Same versus

452
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:46.360
if you go in it holdheartedly that
Lee's guilty. You have to go into

453
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:52.039
each piece of evidence and statements and
look at it with unbiased eyes. And

454
00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:55.679
you have to follow both sides as
far as they take you. Yeah,

455
00:35:55.880 --> 00:36:00.960
and you have to go to the
primary evidence. Don't go to books.

456
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:05.360
Books are actually want to check out
people's opinions on the evidence. But books

457
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:09.480
are not definitive. Books are secondary
sources, right, And I've said several

458
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:13.159
times that what I usually do with
the book is I read through at once

459
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:17.039
to see, you know, if
it even seems remotely possible that anything is

460
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:20.679
valuable in it, I go through
it a second time and begin to break

461
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:24.280
down exactly there's citations where they come
from. You know. This is why

462
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:29.440
I'm not a fan of Lamar Waldron. But anyway, yeah, I don't

463
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:31.639
mean to. Sorry, I deviated
from the topic. Now let me let

464
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:36.400
me just do it quick. Greatest
hits the reasons why I do not believe

465
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:39.679
Judith Baker. She has no primary
evidence, her name never appears in any

466
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:44.320
single file she has ever been able
to present since the first time I asked

467
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:49.679
her months ago till now. She
claimed that she made anthrax on the education

468
00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:52.199
for him. Anyone can go there
and check it. And I suggest that

469
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:57.760
you read my article, Trisha's article, Matthew Solfell's article. There's quite a

470
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:02.360
few articles about her and why her
story another work now the anthrax thing.

471
00:37:04.119 --> 00:37:07.960
She needed training that she didn't have
time for her Once again, timeline problems

472
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:12.559
like the Commission, because she said
she was nineteen and she was doing these

473
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.599
things. It takes years. She
was a lab assistant at best. She

474
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:21.840
never made a cancer bio weapon because
there's no evidence of it. There's no

475
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:27.079
evidence that the technology even existed at
the time. So when I hear her

476
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:30.400
repeat it over and over, you
can repeat something so much as you like,

477
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:34.719
just like the Commission did, it
doesn't make it true. That is

478
00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:37.119
part of the problem. But every
time you begin to break down even the

479
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:42.320
smallest thing in one of her you
know, in one of her stories,

480
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:46.400
it seems to me it falls apart. Based on the context. A really

481
00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:51.719
great thing that Zach and Trisch did
recently, I wonder if you guys would

482
00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:54.679
like kind of give people the idea
of that article you guys just put out.

483
00:37:55.840 --> 00:38:00.880
Reverend Jim. Reverend Jim, Yes, because I pointed to the very

484
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:06.519
same I pointed to the very same
situation in an article years ago. Okay,

485
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:13.519
But my whole thing was the the
ridiculousness of misprinting the word new I'm

486
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:15.800
sorry, that's not something that a
dyslexic would do. Who hails from New

487
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:22.440
Orleans? Okay, find me anybody
who is knowledgeable on the on the subject

488
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.079
of dyslexia, and tell me that
they're going to get a subject who does

489
00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:30.480
that as a grown male. Go
ahead and find one, Okay, but

490
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:34.280
okay, we'll leave that alone.
You guys came up with something though that

491
00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:42.800
I thought was just wow. So
please tell everybody. Well, when we

492
00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:49.559
started into this again, we were
more interested in We started looking up Lillian

493
00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:54.159
Morett's testimony and what jumped out at
us was this lettering job that Lee had

494
00:38:54.639 --> 00:39:00.239
basically not received. He had been
practicing his lettering and Missus Morett had stated

495
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:05.840
that her six year old neighbor's daughter
could do a better job at lettering.

496
00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:08.159
So we started looking into that a
little bit, and then we ended up

497
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:13.800
looking into the Warren Commission and finding
that two individuals were interviewed at a place

498
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:17.639
called the Ad Shop, and that
was located on South Rampart. When we

499
00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:22.639
started doing a little bit more digging
and pulling up newspapers, we actually found

500
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:25.559
the ad for the lettering job that
Lee had applied for, and it was

501
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:31.480
for a large advertising company, which
was very interesting. So, just on

502
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:37.760
a fluke, we were reading through
jud Barry Baker's book and she had mentioned

503
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:40.880
it eighteen times that they had been
doing some lettering and some painting at this

504
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.960
shop. So we started looking into
the shop a little bit more in the

505
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:51.079
area and the history of the area, and basically it just came back that

506
00:39:51.159 --> 00:39:58.119
it wasn't possible. It just wasn't
possible. The segregation and the tension in

507
00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:01.760
that time, especially with the Freedom
Writers that were doing their bus tour from

508
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:08.440
Washington to New Orleans. That was
a good indication of the tension that was

509
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:15.239
building up in that time period.
And when we started looking into Reverend James,

510
00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:19.840
who she refers to his Reverend Jim, and again James is his last

511
00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:22.559
name, so I don't know why
she was short and his last name as

512
00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:25.639
Jim. But aside from that,
we discovered that he was in fact a

513
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:30.000
black man. So we started researching
white people working for blacks back then,

514
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:37.000
and that came directly into the Jim
Crow laws of that time and the segregation

515
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.239
and how you know, for example, a black child could not play in

516
00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:45.920
a baseball diamond within two block radius
of the white community, so that started

517
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:49.599
setting off Bell. So again we
did as much research as we could,

518
00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:52.039
trying to find pictures of this location. Unfortunately, we were never able to

519
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:55.679
find an actual picture of this shop, but we were able to find some

520
00:40:55.880 --> 00:41:00.280
history dating back to the nineteen hundreds
and the Jewish community and a lot of

521
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:05.159
stores that were run there. And
then once we started realizing how rough of

522
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:08.559
the neighborhood this was, and how
how to put this slightly, how two

523
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:14.480
white individuals would stick out like a
sore thumb in this neighborhood. And again

524
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:17.559
they would literally be breaking the law
by working for a black man. And

525
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:22.679
again they needed separate bathrooms, they
needed separate eating areas for the white employees,

526
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:27.280
if this was possible. And to
be honest, we couldn't find one

527
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:31.559
example of white people working for the
colors. Back then. There was a

528
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:37.159
lot of information about how employers would
have to sign off and take responsibility for

529
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:40.000
black employees and that sort of thing, but we couldn't find one example of

530
00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:45.159
Caucasian people working for colors during that
time period. Right, and Judith neglected

531
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:50.480
to mention in her books she and
you know, to her credit, seemed

532
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:53.920
to be you know, foreard minded
about civil rights. But no, not

533
00:41:54.079 --> 00:42:00.280
at a single time did she mention
that, you know, the gem was

534
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:02.920
an African American and and you know, I think that would be a very

535
00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:09.039
significant thing for her to mention.
And and like the way that the laws

536
00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:15.199
were worded is basically that they would
have had to have provided these expensive accommodations.

537
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:22.199
And from all historic references, Reverend
James's place was quite a small place

538
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:29.159
and and we can't determine how this
would have ever taken place well, right,

539
00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:31.599
And and just just to clarify really
quickly, Uh, the fact that

540
00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:36.960
you guys are using the term colored
is because that was contemporaneous with the time.

541
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:39.960
Yeah, it's in the documents.
Yeah, I mean that's exactly what

542
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:45.280
they cite. There was you know, white and colored. This was the

543
00:42:46.119 --> 00:42:51.679
definitions of the separation. That's the
root of what was going on. So

544
00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:57.320
this is why you gots using that
term. We want to ourselves some attacks.

545
00:42:57.519 --> 00:42:59.880
Yes, That's another thing I'd like
to discuss too, is that,

546
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:05.480
yes, all of us have received
threats. All of us and I'm talking

547
00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:08.239
right now, have received you know, people swearing at us. That goes

548
00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:10.519
to the other box for me now, because I started a block list that

549
00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:16.559
I'm more than happy to pass out
to anyone listening. Yeah, because that's

550
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:21.360
the way I think that this is
my opinion, and everyone can disagree with

551
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:23.800
me all they like. But the
only way, it seems in some cases

552
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:28.960
that we are going to raise the
conversation above these people who do not wish

553
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:31.280
to talk about evidence is to get
rid of them, to put them in

554
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:35.480
a part of Facebook where they can
rent by themselves, away from the rest

555
00:43:35.480 --> 00:43:38.880
of us who use evidence, and
not just Facebook, car Mine. I

556
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:44.599
mean, you know there are the
various forums, all right, there are

557
00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:49.280
the various areas where they comment,
they go after you on I mean YouTube.

558
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:52.079
Believe me. I had a history
of these people on YouTube that you

559
00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:58.320
would not believe. Back when YouTube
had a you know, like an email

560
00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:04.440
type system. Man, I could
not go three hours. Yeah no,

561
00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:07.519
and we're not I just want to
state that everyone listening to we are not

562
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:12.400
Judith Baker. We are not saying, oh we're part victims. Please,

563
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.559
no, we'll fight you, but
bring the evidence, pal, because we're

564
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:19.920
not just gonna sit there and argue
with you about poetry. Well yeah,

565
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:22.000
there you go, and you know, and and and the ignorant arguments and

566
00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:27.960
attacking people personally and all this other
stuff, you know, for whatever ails

567
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:30.960
them. I mean, look,
I don't talk about people that have nervous

568
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:34.440
conditions which you could only do,
uh, you know, things like that.

569
00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:37.199
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, we're not saying we're well,

570
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:40.000
yeah, we're not saying I'm sorry. And please press that time in after.

571
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:44.679
I promise I'll make this quick because
me and Chuck will go forever because

572
00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:47.960
we like to talk to each other. But but you know, the bottom

573
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:52.599
line is is you're here to do
research and you're here to do evidence,

574
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:55.079
and you're here to progress this case
or you're in the way. Those are

575
00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:59.960
the only two types of people here, right, And just really quickly,

576
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:01.960
the phone callers, please hold off
until I ask for you, because I've

577
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:06.239
already had to dismiss a couple and
I'm sorry about that. But I'm not

578
00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:08.000
quite ready for you because we got
a few more things on the list that

579
00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:10.440
I want to make sure we hit. I'mbody in a movie on Baker.

580
00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:13.920
Whenever you are, I just hope
the community is ready to as well.

581
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:17.000
No, that's just a taste of
what's wrong. Okay. There are a

582
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:24.719
myriad of circumstances, Problems with the
historical context of what she's saying, difficulty

583
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:28.760
believing, a whole lot of other
things. You know, take note of

584
00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:34.599
interviews where she's completely upset by homosexuals. But meanwhile, whether people realize it

585
00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:37.199
or not, there are some people
who have been outed in the case,

586
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:40.000
and there are still people to this
day that it is not public knowledge we're

587
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:45.039
homosexuals that she claims to be surrounded
by. Yeah, okay, that's an

588
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:49.639
oddity that I don't think anybody brings
up. And I have a little theory

589
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:53.000
about that, but it's only a
theory because Oswald seems to move in circles

590
00:45:53.079 --> 00:46:00.360
where there are closeted homosexuals. Yeah, but anyway, well, we love

591
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:02.960
this thing new with the reality of
his movements though, And I mean to

592
00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:08.000
tell you that that's an international thing. Okay, So yeah, go back

593
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:13.320
and look at that. Anybody who's
researching Oswalt, please and see if you

594
00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:17.000
can explain it, because I have
an explanation, but I don't feel confident

595
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:21.840
enough to really settle it out in
public yet. Do you mind if I

596
00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:28.119
I plug Rob Clark real quick?
Oh no, absolutely, the Lone Gunman,

597
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:30.320
Yes, sir, if you get
a chance, everyone, please listen

598
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:36.400
to Rob Clark's I Believe I Was
Episode fifty one, The Evidence and Documents

599
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:42.400
episode we talk about another thing.
Judith, apparently being such a supposed close

600
00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:46.079
friend of David Theory, forgot to
mention which is a document I found that

601
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:54.639
shows that he was running feasibly a
child sex cult called Omnipotent. So this

602
00:46:54.800 --> 00:47:00.559
is not the person in her latest
book that she presents. Is not a

603
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:05.079
good person. He's not jovial,
he's not nice. He was a lunatic.

604
00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:10.320
He was a madman who had militaristic
dreams and was trying to use boy

605
00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:17.000
scouts for his sexual desires. Well, and see, now, I don't

606
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:20.880
know that I can even go that
far because I haven't seen all this stuff,

607
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:22.000
to be honest with you, No, I'll show you. I'll show

608
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.960
you everything. And even here's the
thing, it's a matter of how many

609
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:30.280
of these documents, because there's that
one I found one where he tried to

610
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:32.519
go into a hospital to convince a
young boy not to testify against him.

611
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:37.599
Now, how many times does the
evidence have to indicate something until this woman

612
00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:44.280
realizes she's wrong? Right? Well, like, like we've all said,

613
00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:45.960
though, we don't want to spend
the whole time. Oh yeah, I

614
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:50.920
mean you know we could. I
mean, you know, look if we

615
00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:53.800
do four two and three, Hey, we'll do it again. I can

616
00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:59.360
doing the documents, I promise.
I see devoting an episode to this and

617
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:04.079
spending some special time on how it
is you derive five hundred pages after knowing

618
00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:07.639
somebody for a summer. But yeah, well someone said Judas is kind of

619
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:10.159
like a slow train wreck, and
I said, well, there's plenty of

620
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:15.079
room on the train for all the
mythmakers. Absolutely true. Let's move on

621
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:19.079
to a couple of other myths,
if that's okay with you, guys,

622
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:25.159
Trisian Zach. Sure, And I'm
sorry it's three months of repressed owner.

623
00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.519
And I understand because, as I
told you, I tried warning people about

624
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:37.480
this years ago, that this was
going to become a bigger problem, and

625
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:40.119
they did not take me seriously.
They really did not, because you know,

626
00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:44.280
after all, I'm not the most
highly educated guy who studied this,

627
00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:46.239
so I don't really know what I'm
talking about. Nobody's ever going to take

628
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:51.599
that seriously. It's just another one
of those you know, things that Nigel

629
00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:54.360
Turner did and don't worry about it. And you know what, that's another

630
00:48:54.440 --> 00:49:00.440
myth in my opinion, because I'm
proud to work with people who bring evidence.

631
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:06.199
I don't care about titles. I
don't care about their education. If

632
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:09.800
there I'll take a reasonable man over
an educated fool every day of the week.

633
00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:15.039
Amen to that, brother. So
let's move on to a couple of

634
00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:19.360
other things, okay, that are
constantly bandied about, especially in alternative media.

635
00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:22.800
And I don't know who wants to
jump on this one. I'm hoping

636
00:49:22.840 --> 00:49:25.079
that either Trisi or Zach grab this
first, because I know this will be

637
00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:29.039
fun for you, Carmine, but
i'd like to hear from them. Yes,

638
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:30.760
I'm sorry, I promise, I
want to talk again to they're done.

639
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:39.880
George H. W. Bush in
Daley Plaza. Well, yeah,

640
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:45.360
that's that's always been an interesting one. And this gets back once again to

641
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:52.599
uh trying to identify people in less
than christine photographs or images that are not

642
00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:57.559
quite clear right. And there's been, you know, a picture taken of

643
00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:02.159
showing a guy, you know,
it's not exactly quite certain who this gentleman

644
00:50:02.440 --> 00:50:06.840
is, and then people say,
well, look at this hairline, look

645
00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:09.360
at this posture. This has to
be George Bush, I mean, and

646
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:14.440
that's quite responsible. I mean,
and you know, people have gone so

647
00:50:14.599 --> 00:50:17.679
far as to try to statistically prove
that, you know, Bush was there

648
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:22.079
and he had this has to be
Bush. And I'm not naming names as

649
00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:24.639
a certain gentleman who loves the statistics
that I've talked to you about this several

650
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:30.719
times. But I mean, you
what and but it gets back to what

651
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:35.320
would it prove if he was there? I mean, he's not holding a

652
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:37.800
rifle. I mean, and what
what what? What is it going to

653
00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:47.639
solve there? I just dropped the
comparison photo because I put that in the

654
00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:52.039
chat room for you guys listening,
and in the chat room, Uh so

655
00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:54.800
you can see from another angle the
figure that is alleged to be George H.

656
00:50:55.000 --> 00:51:00.960
W. Bush and the same figure
from another angle. Just I'd like

657
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:06.480
to go ahead. I'd like to
make a point. Good, I'd like

658
00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:07.480
to make a point. I'd like
to make a point here. And in

659
00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:12.440
some of the archival work I've done, I am. Part of the job

660
00:51:12.519 --> 00:51:16.800
that I had to do was identify
individuals in photographs. And sometimes you'll get

661
00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:22.000
photographs of people that from families and
some family member later on down the road

662
00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:25.039
will write a name on the back
of the picture. These are people that

663
00:51:25.159 --> 00:51:29.119
they knew, and they'll write a
name on the back of the picture,

664
00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:32.800
and you can prove that it wasn't
even the proper person that they're identifying,

665
00:51:32.840 --> 00:51:37.760
that they that they were misidentifying somebody
that they knew face to face in a

666
00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:44.239
photograph. So how is it that
people are so certain that they know who

667
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:47.760
an individual isn't a photograph that a
they've never met and be it's they don't

668
00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:52.320
even have access to the original photograph
to begin with. I mean, it's

669
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:55.280
absolutely it's it's a waste of time, right, But I mean, like

670
00:51:55.360 --> 00:52:00.599
I said, one of the really
great methods is to cross reference. If

671
00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:04.800
you have a multitude of photographs you
know, of a body of people from

672
00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:08.440
particularly different angles, which we do
have and nexus of photographs here in Dealey

673
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:14.119
Plaza, you can compare one figure
to another and sort of begin to play

674
00:52:14.239 --> 00:52:16.480
match game with them and you can
see them from different angles. I mean,

675
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:20.639
much like that whole you know,
Jack Ruby is in front of the

676
00:52:20.679 --> 00:52:25.519
book depository thing that was incorrect as
well. You know, It's just exactly

677
00:52:28.199 --> 00:52:30.800
is this should ultimate if you if
you're going to go that route, it

678
00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:36.559
should be ultimately left to a like
forensic experts or be experts in anatomy,

679
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:40.880
people that understand exactly what they're looking
at lay people trying to identify people based

680
00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:45.199
on, you know, a hairline
or something like that. That's it's you

681
00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:50.559
don't it's it's beyond the scope of
what a lay person should be able to

682
00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:54.239
accomplish. I think a big part
of it, too, is hypothetically,

683
00:52:54.480 --> 00:53:00.199
if George Bush was involved with this
assassination in any form of way, do

684
00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:04.079
you really think that he would put
himself in that position to be photographed?

685
00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:07.280
Do you really think that he would
be on site? I mean to me,

686
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:10.480
that doesn't make sense. He was
attempting to run a Senate campaign at

687
00:53:10.519 --> 00:53:14.599
the time, would he put himself
out there? Yeah, you guys are

688
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:22.400
totally right. I waited. You
guys are totally right, because that's my

689
00:53:22.519 --> 00:53:27.840
contention with everybody that ever says they
see someone there. If you want to

690
00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:30.360
plot the go off, you don't
show up at the crime scene. Only

691
00:53:30.440 --> 00:53:35.960
a moron shows up at the crime
scene. Yeah, and the you know,

692
00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:39.400
the over the years, I believe
I saw a graph one time compiled

693
00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:45.519
by somebody who decided to figure this
out. They they alleged something like I

694
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:51.599
don't know, five hundred historical figures
have been accused to have been at Dealey

695
00:53:51.639 --> 00:53:54.480
Plaza. In one way or another
through somebody's work over the years, and

696
00:53:54.960 --> 00:54:00.440
I imagine that they didn't actually get
to all of the literature. Okay,

697
00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:04.400
so if I may quote the Commission, which I am loathed to do,

698
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:07.800
but when they get it right,
they get it right. Credit where credits

699
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:13.280
do go ahead, there is still
another category of speculation and rumor that complicated

700
00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:16.400
and broadened the work of the Commission. Numerous people claim to have seen Oswald

701
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:21.639
or Ruby at various times and places
in the United States are abroad. Others

702
00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:25.000
insisted that during those days the following
the assassination, they had to detected significant

703
00:54:25.039 --> 00:54:30.480
actions on television that were witnessed by
no one else. Well, right,

704
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:34.960
I mean, including people that swore
up and down that they actually saw the

705
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:39.559
assassination broadcast live that day. That
was actually an assertion for many years,

706
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:45.559
and there is no way that that
happened. It did not happen. Yeah,

707
00:54:45.559 --> 00:54:50.280
but they still go on and hopefully
this will help the movement to start

708
00:54:50.760 --> 00:54:55.440
the stoppage of that. Well again, I know we could treat these subjects

709
00:54:55.519 --> 00:55:00.079
to long discussions, but I'm trying
to jump around so that we can and

710
00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:07.880
actually get to some of these phone
calls next James Files if you don't mind,

711
00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:14.880
oh Files, you guys the Grassy
Knolls. For those who don't know

712
00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:21.440
Sutton, mister Sutton is the Ji
Jim Sutton, who is you know,

713
00:55:21.760 --> 00:55:27.320
prisoner at Juliet I think still right
anyway, been interviewed a few times,

714
00:55:28.679 --> 00:55:35.480
has confessed to being the shooter on
the Grassy Knoll. Go ahead, trash

715
00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:38.039
Well, I have a couple of
things I'd like to bring up about Badgeman.

716
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:45.559
First and foremost, it has been
documented that Gary Mack and Jack White

717
00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:50.199
weren't actually the ones that first found
the badgeman. It was actually Ruth Carter

718
00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:53.400
Stapleton, who was Jimmy Carter's sister. Correct. She was the first one

719
00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:59.760
who actually pointed out that there was
an individual in the Mary Anne Mormon photo.

720
00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:05.000
The first story that went around was, of course Rosciale White, his

721
00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:07.639
son came forward saying that everything was
in his diary, it was all documented,

722
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:12.679
so on and so forth, and
then through analysis of the ink used

723
00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:16.480
in the diary, it was then
established that his wife, Missus White,

724
00:56:16.679 --> 00:56:22.000
was actually the one who wrote up
that diary. Once that story basically became

725
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:25.639
dead in the water, then all
of a sudden, Files comes into it,

726
00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:30.320
and for myself, I find that
very intriguing, especially considering Beverly Oliver

727
00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:36.159
had stated that she did in fact
see Rosciale White that day. So again,

728
00:56:36.280 --> 00:56:40.840
the story evolves once something is knocked
down, and I think that's really

729
00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:45.679
important. And I think eventually,
in my opinion, I think the James

730
00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:47.519
file will be another one of the
Roscallle White stories. Well, it will

731
00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:52.119
eventually just fade out because again it
comes down to evidence and proof, and

732
00:56:52.239 --> 00:56:58.239
I think that there's just too much
pointing. And again this is just my

733
00:56:58.360 --> 00:57:02.039
opinion that the didn't come from the
Grassy Ole. I do believe something happened

734
00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:05.840
there, whether it was a diversion
or something to get people to run up

735
00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:08.960
there, I do holdheartedly believe that. But if you look at I believe

736
00:57:08.960 --> 00:57:15.440
it's called the KGB Secret Files of
the Kennedy Assassination, Robert Groden and amongst

737
00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:17.119
others, and I'm sorry I can't
recall who all was involved with it at

738
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:22.719
this point, but they actually blocked
off the plaza and did a laser test

739
00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:28.039
of it. And when you see
how Robert Groden tries to match up the

740
00:57:28.159 --> 00:57:31.360
headshot with the grassy Old, it's
impossible the bullet could not have done a

741
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:37.400
U turn in JFK's head. And
by all accounts, it appears that the

742
00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:42.360
shot either came from the front or
from the back. And again, when

743
00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:46.159
you take into an account Custer's testimony, and again Custer's obviously one of those

744
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:50.519
people that either you believe them or
you don't, it seems to make a

745
00:57:50.559 --> 00:57:55.199
lot more sense given the information that
he stated in his testimony. So again,

746
00:57:55.239 --> 00:58:00.239
I do believe, holdheartedly something happened
on the grass that got people's attention

747
00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:04.039
and got them running that way.
And again, in my opinion, I

748
00:58:04.199 --> 00:58:07.760
believe it was a diversion. But
if you actually look at how the bullet

749
00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:10.480
entered the head from the right side
and then exited the right side as well,

750
00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:15.039
I mean that that's you know,
physically impossible, right, And for

751
00:58:15.239 --> 00:58:19.679
trajectory information, I would say,
you know, take a look at somebody

752
00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:23.559
like Sherry Feaster, who's also been
a guest on this show, exactly exactly,

753
00:58:24.199 --> 00:58:32.559
an actual crime scene investigator, Yes, an actual exa definitely hands down

754
00:58:35.239 --> 00:58:38.320
right, And as far as the
final sorry, as far as the files

755
00:58:38.360 --> 00:58:40.320
thing goes, though, I just
want to say one thing about that.

756
00:58:40.719 --> 00:58:46.480
The Roscoe White timing is a lot
longer than you guys probably think. You

757
00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:50.920
guys think of the Ricky White thing
as the first time the Roscoe White thing

758
00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:54.719
came out, But no, that
was introduced earlier. That was introduced earlier,

759
00:58:54.880 --> 00:59:01.400
and it all, it all actually
came from the fact that that Roscoe

760
00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:07.679
White's widow turned over one of the
backyard photographs to the House Select Committee at

761
00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:13.800
one point. Yes, and she
had she had a copy that nobody else

762
00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:20.360
had. Right now, that's easily
explainable, believe it or not without adding

763
00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:25.039
Roscolle White to the conspiracy. Uh. The fact, the fact of the

764
00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:30.039
matter is is that pieces of evidence
seemed to disappear from the police station in

765
00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:34.800
Dallas, and if Roscoe White was
a cop and being around there, that

766
00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:37.880
would make perfect sense. A lot
of evidence was being taken as souvenirs,

767
00:59:38.119 --> 00:59:43.159
right, thank you exactly. My
reasoning which is, you know, which

768
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:47.840
I knew from actually speaking to Dallas
police officers. But okay, but where

769
00:59:47.880 --> 00:59:52.400
would they know, Well, they
wouldn't know much. They were just you

770
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:59.760
know the Yeah, I know,
I know. But anyway, the Jimmy

771
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:02.960
final story, the problem is that
it doesn't line up with the existing evidence.

772
01:00:04.039 --> 01:00:08.239
It doesn't line up with reason.
You can't find the figure that Files

773
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:12.960
would be in any of the photographic
evidence, and it falls apart. On

774
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:15.239
the face of it. Bob Vernon
is the guy who actually sold it to

775
01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:20.760
Whim dank Bar, and Wim does
this thing with it, and that's the

776
01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:23.360
world according to Whim. I don't
want to say, well, and that's

777
01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:29.079
fine if the same category to me, I'm sorry, I'm sorry Files and

778
01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:31.360
Baker fall into the same category for
me. Yeah they did it. Well,

779
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:35.000
no, they are, as far
as I'm concerned, they're the same

780
01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:40.239
thing. They both go back to
dank Bar. You know. That's That's

781
01:00:40.280 --> 01:00:44.119
the issue, is that not only
do we have these myth makers, we

782
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:51.320
have people funding them, which is
a whole other interesting issue. But anyway,

783
01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:54.119
let's continue to tackle this stuff because, believe it or not, we're

784
01:00:54.199 --> 01:00:57.800
through the first hour. Guys,
I know we could go all day,

785
01:00:57.880 --> 01:01:01.679
I'm sure, so get onto.
This is one of my favorites. By

786
01:01:01.719 --> 01:01:07.800
the way, LBJ is the mastermind
of the assassination. Ooh, now,

787
01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:14.800
this is a long drawn out mythology. Okay, why do I say that?

788
01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:19.960
Well, it's kind of logical considering
in the nineteen sixties. If you

789
01:01:20.079 --> 01:01:22.199
think to yourself, Well, you
know, he became president. He you

790
01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:25.239
know, if you're talking about nineteen
sixty six, nineteen sixty seven, you

791
01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:29.480
might think to yourself that LBJ might
have something to do with it. First

792
01:01:29.480 --> 01:01:31.440
of all, it was public knowledge
that the guy had all sorts of corruption

793
01:01:31.599 --> 01:01:37.119
charges around him. Okay, it
was the whole Bobby Baker scandal, not

794
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:42.480
something that was discovered, you know, by bar McClellan. Okay, The

795
01:01:42.599 --> 01:01:46.360
fact is that the Bobby Baker scandal. If you listen to broadcasts of local

796
01:01:46.519 --> 01:01:51.440
radio in Dallas and Fort Worth that
day, you can hear the headlines about

797
01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:55.960
the Bobby Baker scandal while JFK is
visiting Dallas. Okay, if you don't

798
01:01:57.000 --> 01:02:01.159
believe me, I'll send you the
file. Moving on, Yes, he's

799
01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:07.119
assassinated Kennedy in the state where Johnson's
from. So it's not a it's not

800
01:02:07.239 --> 01:02:12.719
a horrendous thing to imagine that LBJ
could be involved. He benefited because he

801
01:02:12.760 --> 01:02:17.519
became president. He obviously had control
of certain things in that state. I

802
01:02:17.599 --> 01:02:21.320
mean, after all, John Connolly
is directly relatable to him. The other

803
01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:24.000
guy was wounded in the car.
Okay, a whole lot of other people

804
01:02:24.079 --> 01:02:28.599
that are involved in the motorcade,
the choice of buildings, all these kinds

805
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:32.559
of things. It makes kind of
sense. But there's a problem, well

806
01:02:32.679 --> 01:02:37.119
a problem, that's funny. There's
a lot of problems here. And I

807
01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:42.280
have given people the context and Carmine, if you want to start, go

808
01:02:42.320 --> 01:02:44.719
ahead, but I want to make
sure you hear from Zach and Trish on

809
01:02:44.840 --> 01:02:47.440
this too. I'll get you.
I'll let them go first if they wish.

810
01:02:47.559 --> 01:02:51.320
I want to be more. They
are the people I would like to

811
01:02:51.400 --> 01:02:54.519
be, the stars. They are
the new guests. Oh no, no,

812
01:02:54.599 --> 01:03:00.800
no, no, you're gonna want
to thank you guys. Well,

813
01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:02.880
this is a special place in my
heart because it relates to a guy.

814
01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:07.079
I'm sure that everyone in the Garrison
group wanted me to give a shout out

815
01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:15.639
to Dave Sharp. Dave is an
interesting fellow who has constantly shadowed most of

816
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:21.239
our forums trying to push the LBJ
myth and I tried to explain it to

817
01:03:21.360 --> 01:03:23.760
Dave, but he wouldn't listen.
So hopefully if he's listening now to listen

818
01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:30.360
this time. It is highly improbable
that Lyndon Baines Johnson was part of the

819
01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:34.519
conspiracy. He was part of the
cover up. I will give everyone that

820
01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:37.320
he was totally part of the cover
up. He didn't want any of this

821
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:43.719
to escalate into something he couldn't control, So that I think is fairly established

822
01:03:43.760 --> 01:03:46.559
by evidence and most reasonable people can
accept. Lyndon Johnson, like all the

823
01:03:46.639 --> 01:03:52.280
other politicians, didn't want this to
turn into something else. However, he

824
01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:55.800
likely had no part in the assassination. Now what you said, you said.

825
01:03:55.800 --> 01:03:59.360
People say, well, it was
in Texas. Yeah it was,

826
01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:03.639
which would obviously link back to him. So why would he do it where

827
01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:09.079
it would link back to him.
That's a big problem, isn't it.

828
01:04:09.679 --> 01:04:13.280
Yeah, you know, And here's
the thing. I am willing to accept

829
01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:16.519
the idea. And I'm gonna let
you know, Trician and Zach get on

830
01:04:16.639 --> 01:04:19.519
this, But I'm willing to accept
the idea that somebody tapped him on the

831
01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:25.360
shoulder and said you're going to be
president soon. I'm willing to accept that.

832
01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:29.519
I'm willing to accept that he might
have even had some foreknowledge, although

833
01:04:29.800 --> 01:04:32.639
he wasn't ducking at the time and
all that other nonsense. But that aside,

834
01:04:33.840 --> 01:04:36.599
I'm willing to accept that possibility.
I'm willing to accept that a completely

835
01:04:36.679 --> 01:04:42.000
corrupt politician got swept up in something, tried to control the investigation, especially

836
01:04:42.079 --> 01:04:47.880
through his personal relationship with or Hoover. Okay, so Hoover again, who

837
01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:53.039
you know, basically framed and let
go anybody he wanted to, and controlled

838
01:04:53.320 --> 01:04:58.840
loads of dirty information on people from
the inception of his office with the FBI.

839
01:04:59.360 --> 01:05:02.679
But okay, okay, I'll accept
all of that, But him planning

840
01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:08.320
it hell of a reward to only
have one shadow presidency of his own,

841
01:05:09.320 --> 01:05:14.440
to wind up a broken man and
to have his legacy destroyed exactly. Okay.

842
01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:17.920
And how about the shooting gallery.
Why wouldn't he be there if there

843
01:05:18.039 --> 01:05:24.039
was a miss, anyone could be
hit. Yeah, and I'm sorry.

844
01:05:24.079 --> 01:05:29.400
I absolutely believed the phone call where
he's talking to Hoover and he says,

845
01:05:29.480 --> 01:05:31.599
you know, were any of those
bullets intended for me? That sounded like

846
01:05:31.639 --> 01:05:35.639
an honest question, especially considering there
was no way in helly had any idea

847
01:05:35.679 --> 01:05:39.519
that anybody in the public would ever
get to hear that tape that was for

848
01:05:39.639 --> 01:05:43.519
his private use. Yeah, whenever
I hear people talk about the tapes and

849
01:05:43.599 --> 01:05:46.039
the things that he could have said, he wouldn't have been using as many

850
01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:49.159
racial epithephs if he thought that these
tapes were going to be listened to,

851
01:05:51.119 --> 01:05:59.119
much like Nixon. Yeah, I'd
like I'd like to bring up I'd like

852
01:05:59.159 --> 01:06:02.760
to bring up interesting anecdote that relates
to this, and it's the story of

853
01:06:02.840 --> 01:06:09.320
Godfrey McHugh who is in the Air
Force and he was originally supposed to ride

854
01:06:09.360 --> 01:06:14.639
in the presidential limo and got moved
incidentally, but after the assassination, Godfrey

855
01:06:14.719 --> 01:06:19.000
McHugh wanted to track down Johnson and
get permission to take off, and they

856
01:06:19.079 --> 01:06:24.639
couldn't find him. And they found
Johnson evidently in the bathroom of Air Force

857
01:06:24.719 --> 01:06:29.320
one, crying and telling McHugh,
look out, this is a conspiracy.

858
01:06:29.880 --> 01:06:32.800
And you know why if he was
the mastermind of it, would he be

859
01:06:32.960 --> 01:06:38.880
crying and telling one of his generals
that this was a conspiracy. Yeah,

860
01:06:38.960 --> 01:06:42.320
Johnson had doubts two for years.
I have documents that I'm more than happy

861
01:06:42.360 --> 01:06:45.559
to share with you guys and those
who are interested. Where Walter Jenkins,

862
01:06:45.639 --> 01:06:49.280
his personal assistant, told Hoover that
Johnson was having a moment of doubt where

863
01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:54.519
he said he knew that CIA were
somehow involved. I mean, this isn't

864
01:06:54.920 --> 01:06:59.400
Johnson was not the villain that so
many have wasted time trying to portray he

865
01:06:59.559 --> 01:07:01.679
was a villain. He wasn't a
good man, But that doesn't mean he

866
01:07:01.800 --> 01:07:05.360
was the leader of the assassination.
Oh yeah. Let me let me be

867
01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:10.920
very clear. I'm not saying that
this guy was innocent in any way,

868
01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:15.559
shape or form. What I'm saying
is he's not the planner. He's not

869
01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:23.559
the architect of what happened here.
Smart enough, all all all of the

870
01:07:24.079 --> 01:07:27.920
all of the you know, all
of the like you're saying the recording saying

871
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:30.320
that he thought when the bolts was, you know, wondering if one of

872
01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:32.800
them was meant for him, and
him being upset about this seems to me

873
01:07:33.079 --> 01:07:38.239
to indicate that he knew that something
was going on, but he in no

874
01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:41.880
way was the one that planned it. And I also think by him being

875
01:07:41.960 --> 01:07:45.239
in the parade, I think that
he was close enough to hear the shots,

876
01:07:45.960 --> 01:07:48.360
you know, and that that's a
very powerful thought if you think about

877
01:07:48.400 --> 01:07:53.719
it. He just witnessed the man
above him being murdered, and I think

878
01:07:53.760 --> 01:07:57.400
it's very powerful that he knew that
potentially that could happen to him too.

879
01:07:57.480 --> 01:08:00.360
And again I like to use the
expression he heard the shots, he knew

880
01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:04.000
what potentially could have happened to him, and I think that's really important.

881
01:08:04.039 --> 01:08:08.639
And at that point, he was
expendable in the sense that he was easy

882
01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:13.199
to maneuver the way that they wanted
him to. But isn't that the case

883
01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:17.520
with all these guys post Kennedy and
I believe that also, believe it or

884
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:23.640
not, Nixon was removed for the
same reason that he wasn't cooperating. I

885
01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:27.920
agree, Yeah, fascination is not
their only tool, right absolutely, you

886
01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:31.479
know, and they had already decapitated, they already fed them. You got

887
01:08:31.560 --> 01:08:35.520
it, you got it. I
I am so glad to be on the

888
01:08:35.560 --> 01:08:39.279
air with you. Guys. You
have no idea. I'm gonna tell you

889
01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:43.680
what now, I'm going to open
those phone lines. I'm going to open

890
01:08:43.720 --> 01:08:45.000
those phone lines, though, and
I don't know what we're going to get.

891
01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:49.199
But I invite anybody who wants to
call in now to ask about any

892
01:08:49.239 --> 01:08:54.439
of the subjects we covered or anything
else related to the case. And you

893
01:08:54.520 --> 01:08:57.600
know what, if I've got any
sort of clue, or any of my

894
01:08:57.680 --> 01:09:00.920
guests have any sort of clue,
will be more than have be to give

895
01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:05.039
you our ideas about what's what okay, And let's not forget that. You

896
01:09:05.079 --> 01:09:08.600
know, there are the major myths
and there are also the minor myths.

897
01:09:09.239 --> 01:09:13.560
Okay, the whole Well, there
were fake Secret Service agents everywhere that was

898
01:09:13.640 --> 01:09:16.600
bandied about for many many years.
The sewer shot from X files, the

899
01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:23.000
sewer shot, which is an impossibility. And let me just back up with

900
01:09:23.079 --> 01:09:26.600
a little bit of evidence on the
fake Secret Service agents and how so many

901
01:09:26.640 --> 01:09:31.239
witnesses saw them. Okay, the
first thing is there is a Secret Service

902
01:09:31.279 --> 01:09:36.880
agent named Lem Johns. If you
could just turn down your radio, there

903
01:09:36.920 --> 01:09:40.039
we go. Yeah, oh,
thank you man. Hold on, just

904
01:09:40.119 --> 01:09:44.159
a second secret Service agent, Lem
John's. Take a look at his testimony

905
01:09:44.760 --> 01:09:47.640
and just imagine for a moment that
he's not lying. It is very easy

906
01:09:47.680 --> 01:09:51.600
to see how a secret Service agent
running around with his credentials open at that

907
01:09:51.840 --> 01:09:56.720
time could be spotted by various people
in the crowd who are frozen, some

908
01:09:56.880 --> 01:10:00.800
of which have thrown themselves on the
ground. So there ends a whole lot

909
01:10:00.880 --> 01:10:05.119
of that speculation, maybe not all
of it, but let's try and trace

910
01:10:05.239 --> 01:10:10.119
these things back to the evidence.
Okay, So I have one caller on,

911
01:10:10.199 --> 01:10:13.640
I have another one coming in.
Uh Charles, first though, how

912
01:10:13.720 --> 01:10:16.640
you doing, man, I'm doing
good. How are you guys doing doing

913
01:10:16.680 --> 01:10:24.119
all right? I'm doing good,
folks, for finally talking face to face

914
01:10:24.159 --> 01:10:28.039
after messaging back and forth with the
last god knows how long, and you

915
01:10:28.119 --> 01:10:31.359
are live on the air, so
no doubt, please go ahead and contribute

916
01:10:31.399 --> 01:10:34.640
to the conversation. All right,
Well, basically, I've been listening since

917
01:10:34.680 --> 01:10:38.880
you just after you guys started about
an hour ago or whatnot, and you

918
01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:43.920
guys have been knocking them off all
my next getting sore from nodding from what

919
01:10:44.039 --> 01:10:50.520
you guys keep saying, because one
after another after another is like bang on.

920
01:10:50.840 --> 01:10:56.319
I mean, you've got doorway man, You've got LBJ did it?

921
01:10:56.479 --> 01:11:02.600
You've got uh bring up JVB.
And the one that really bugs me the

922
01:11:02.720 --> 01:11:08.159
most because I run, as a
lot of you may know a JFK site

923
01:11:08.319 --> 01:11:14.199
is the limo driver that just bugs
me to no end because if we get

924
01:11:14.279 --> 01:11:19.039
it constantly, and it just bugs
me because it's so easy to disprove.

925
01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:24.439
But you get these stubborn people on
there, and this is true with all

926
01:11:24.520 --> 01:11:28.079
of the subjects. You get these
stubborn people on there, and they don't

927
01:11:28.079 --> 01:11:31.000
want to admit that they're wrong,
even when you can show straight up that

928
01:11:31.079 --> 01:11:36.680
they're wrong. It just nos sense. Yeah, they personalize it unfortunately.

929
01:11:38.199 --> 01:11:41.680
Yeah, why do people get so
personal over this? I mean, it's

930
01:11:41.760 --> 01:11:45.800
one thing to have a disagreement.
You can disagree with someone and still be

931
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:49.920
respectful towards them, But so many
people make it so personal that you disagree

932
01:11:50.079 --> 01:11:56.239
all the sudden, insulting them what
for? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

933
01:11:57.000 --> 01:12:00.159
that's right. Bugs me when people
do that, and I'm I mean,

934
01:12:00.279 --> 01:12:02.000
I'm not one to do that.
You guys have dealt with me long enough

935
01:12:02.039 --> 01:12:04.960
to know that, But there's so
many people out there that do. And

936
01:12:05.039 --> 01:12:10.319
it just even like I'll even say, if there are people that I discussed

937
01:12:10.359 --> 01:12:14.199
and I think you guys know them, two guys like you know Fred James,

938
01:12:14.279 --> 01:12:16.920
Steve Rowe and so on, most
of these people are alone. Gunman

939
01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:20.000
Oswald did it on their own stuff, and I completely disagree with that.

940
01:12:20.680 --> 01:12:25.199
But there's no reason why even though
we disagree with them, we can't talk

941
01:12:25.239 --> 01:12:30.239
to them in a respectful manner.
Yeah, there's an other parble that are

942
01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:34.279
the same opinion where you can't you
know, and just really quickly. Of

943
01:12:34.359 --> 01:12:39.119
course, David von Pine has an
excellent video collection. O. Yes he

944
01:12:39.239 --> 01:12:42.720
does. Anyway, he doesn't like
to debate much with me. But yeah,

945
01:12:42.760 --> 01:12:45.399
he's got a real nice sponge of
videos. Yes, that's true.

946
01:12:45.560 --> 01:12:48.000
True. Okay, two things.
First of all, unknown caller, I

947
01:12:48.119 --> 01:12:51.479
can't accept you because if I do, it will knock us off the network.

948
01:12:51.560 --> 01:12:54.800
Okay, so you're gonna have to
unblock your number if you want to

949
01:12:54.800 --> 01:13:00.680
get in. Next thing is I
wonder who they're from. But I wanted

950
01:13:00.720 --> 01:13:04.359
to make that announcement. Plus,
we also have another call around six seven.

951
01:13:05.359 --> 01:13:09.680
How you doing, I'm great,
I'm great. I just want to

952
01:13:09.680 --> 01:13:12.800
say, nice show. I want
to shout out to my three favorite researchers

953
01:13:12.840 --> 01:13:15.319
out there, which is the hit
Man. Nice, hey hit Man.

954
01:13:15.319 --> 01:13:19.960
How you doing, Hey, gug, Thanks for the shout out. I

955
01:13:20.079 --> 01:13:25.159
appreciate that. I just wanted to
touch based on something Karma said earlier.

956
01:13:26.680 --> 01:13:30.119
When you really start digging into what
authors are writing and you start looking at

957
01:13:30.119 --> 01:13:35.640
the primary sources, very often you're
going to find they're just listing someone else's

958
01:13:35.680 --> 01:13:41.359
sources and they've never looked at the
actual documents, and that leads to a

959
01:13:41.479 --> 01:13:48.680
continued mythology that is really frustrating.
When you're you've got people citing other people's

960
01:13:48.760 --> 01:13:53.680
books and you when you as a
researcher start digging and you find the actual

961
01:13:53.760 --> 01:13:58.560
document that people are quoting, and
it said nothing even remotely close to what

962
01:13:58.680 --> 01:14:01.720
they're using it for. So,
Carmine, would you like to cite an

963
01:14:01.760 --> 01:14:08.039
example of this, Oh, the
documents? Oh yeah, I think I

964
01:14:08.119 --> 01:14:12.640
might be able to think the one. Yeah. Mark Lane has a document

965
01:14:12.720 --> 01:14:16.279
that everyone loves the site, but
no one really looks at the exact document.

966
01:14:16.319 --> 01:14:20.119
They just cite his movie or they
cite his books. Now, the

967
01:14:20.279 --> 01:14:26.640
document does say the word Mauser,
as Lane contends. However, if you

968
01:14:26.800 --> 01:14:30.199
read the whole document, the only
thing that sounds like Mauser is that word

969
01:14:30.279 --> 01:14:33.960
Mauser. Everything else goes with the
Karkano and it's from two days later,

970
01:14:34.039 --> 01:14:39.439
before they even knew what street Kennedy
was hit on. So they made a

971
01:14:39.520 --> 01:14:44.079
mistake like they made so many other
times. Instead, Lane sup that and

972
01:14:44.279 --> 01:14:46.920
forever has bandied it as there was
a Mauser, there wasn't. I also

973
01:14:47.039 --> 01:14:51.680
have a document of Roger Craig's original
interview with Mark Lane. Guess what they

974
01:14:51.760 --> 01:15:00.399
don't mention a Mauser. One other
document, Misrepresentation, which is one of

975
01:15:00.479 --> 01:15:03.000
my favorites, which is out there
and is part of the mythology in the

976
01:15:03.039 --> 01:15:14.960
alternative media is Executive Order number one
one one one zero. Now, anybody

977
01:15:15.039 --> 01:15:21.159
want to tackle that really quickly?
The Federal Reserve thing, Yeah, I

978
01:15:21.319 --> 01:15:26.720
leave that open to you, guys. I've done it enough. Play somebody

979
01:15:26.760 --> 01:15:32.640
else. I've heard this one so
many times. The whole JFK was going

980
01:15:32.720 --> 01:15:39.039
to end the FED. Well,
first of all, let's examine what it

981
01:15:39.199 --> 01:15:45.560
is they show for proof, which
is the United States note okay, which

982
01:15:45.319 --> 01:15:51.119
existed long before Kennedy took any sort
of office, which existed post Kennedy,

983
01:15:51.600 --> 01:15:55.199
all the way up to nineteen seventy
one, when there was a change in

984
01:15:55.279 --> 01:15:59.039
the monetary policy in this country because
Nixon finally took us the rest of the

985
01:15:59.079 --> 01:16:04.520
way off the gold stand. Hello. Okay, but read the executive order

986
01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:11.960
for a moment. What does it
actually do? Anybody know? No,

987
01:16:12.319 --> 01:16:17.079
I, after I saw the claims, I just sort of you got this

988
01:16:17.159 --> 01:16:24.600
one trip. No, You're doing
a great job. Okay. It's actually

989
01:16:24.760 --> 01:16:30.119
an augmentation of a previous executive order. Okay, And it looks like Hitman

990
01:16:30.159 --> 01:16:33.239
dropped off the call. You know, you can call back in if you

991
01:16:33.279 --> 01:16:35.279
want, Man, I have no
problem as long as you can, you

992
01:16:35.359 --> 01:16:39.039
know, kind of not not make
a whole lot of noise. You're good,

993
01:16:39.319 --> 01:16:44.159
so you can hang out. But
here's the thing. It actually is

994
01:16:44.199 --> 01:16:48.960
an augmentation of a previous executive order, and what it does in reality is

995
01:16:49.079 --> 01:16:57.279
turn over the presidential privilege of deciding
how many of these notes are issued to

996
01:16:57.399 --> 01:17:03.479
the Secretary of Treasury. That's what
it actually does. And once again,

997
01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:09.760
unknown caller, I cannot accept you. You will have to unblock your number

998
01:17:09.800 --> 01:17:12.760
in order to call in. I'm
sorry, that's just the way things work.

999
01:17:12.880 --> 01:17:15.439
It's not my rule, it's just
the way things work. Can I

1000
01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:26.239
make a quick joke? Sorry,
Judith exactly, thank you. You know

1001
01:17:26.399 --> 01:17:36.199
she has to go back. Okay, yeah, So please, first of

1002
01:17:36.199 --> 01:17:39.760
all, read the document, and
you know what, don't believe me.

1003
01:17:40.359 --> 01:17:43.520
Don't believe me if you want to
read a similar analysis of this, and

1004
01:17:43.640 --> 01:17:48.319
this should have been dispelled many many
years ago. If people accept the the

1005
01:17:48.720 --> 01:17:56.199
UH, if people accept the authority
of somebody like you know, G.

1006
01:17:56.399 --> 01:18:00.840
Edward Griffin on the subject of the
Federal Reserve, go ahead and enter G.

1007
01:18:01.039 --> 01:18:05.439
Edward Griffin and the JFK myth into
a search engine. Just go ahead

1008
01:18:05.439 --> 01:18:09.159
and do that. See what you
come up with. You'll find that he

1009
01:18:09.239 --> 01:18:14.279
printed an article in two thousand and
one explaining this away once and for all.

1010
01:18:14.800 --> 01:18:17.119
Now, maybe you don't believe the
whole Jackal Island thing, but I

1011
01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:21.880
do. And I'm going to tell
you right now, if you understand the

1012
01:18:21.920 --> 01:18:26.600
way that this guy did his research
on that, and you also read the

1013
01:18:26.680 --> 01:18:30.760
documents, I can't argue with g
Edward Griffin. So go ahead and look

1014
01:18:30.760 --> 01:18:36.840
at that if you like. Anyway, Sorry, go right ahead, guys,

1015
01:18:36.880 --> 01:18:41.119
but do read the executive order.
It is possible to get a copy

1016
01:18:41.199 --> 01:18:46.359
of it. So what's next?
I leave the floor open. We didn't

1017
01:18:46.359 --> 01:18:51.079
really get too many suggestions from Zach
and Trish. I mean, what didn't

1018
01:18:51.119 --> 01:18:58.520
we cover, guys that you really
want to get to. One thing I'd

1019
01:18:58.600 --> 01:19:03.399
like to mention is Dennis Morsett and
his work with the Babushka Lady. I

1020
01:19:03.479 --> 01:19:09.880
think that he's uncovered quite a few
interesting topics regarding that, and I really

1021
01:19:09.920 --> 01:19:12.399
do hope at some point you do
get him on your show to take a

1022
01:19:12.520 --> 01:19:17.520
listen to. He's uncovered quite a
few different things, including information regarding the

1023
01:19:17.600 --> 01:19:20.239
camera, which of course Zach had
a part of helping him with. And

1024
01:19:20.319 --> 01:19:24.840
I think that that's a very important
topic. And I don't want to step

1025
01:19:24.880 --> 01:19:27.800
on any toes by any means by
bringing him up, but I do hope

1026
01:19:27.840 --> 01:19:31.079
that at some point you do consider
bringing him along. Yeah. I think

1027
01:19:31.119 --> 01:19:34.119
that all of us agree that,
like we said, the lines need to

1028
01:19:34.159 --> 01:19:39.920
be redrawn. They shouldn't be pro
an anti conspiracy because that infers a bias.

1029
01:19:40.439 --> 01:19:43.640
They should be pro and anti evidence. And I'll tell you what,

1030
01:19:43.840 --> 01:19:48.079
if you look back at at Richard
Sprague's work, and I'm not talking about

1031
01:19:48.159 --> 01:19:53.560
Richard Sprague, who actually was you
know, removed as the as the chief

1032
01:19:53.600 --> 01:19:56.520
counsel for the House Select Committee,
I'm not talking about that Richard Sprague.

1033
01:19:56.720 --> 01:20:00.640
I'm talking about the other one,
Okay, the guy who did photo analysis.

1034
01:20:00.079 --> 01:20:02.560
If you take a look back at
him trying to track down who the

1035
01:20:02.600 --> 01:20:09.199
Bebushka lady was, that sounds a
hell of a lot more plausible than Beverly

1036
01:20:09.399 --> 01:20:13.199
Oliver. I'm sorry. I told
Brett Holland the same thing on this show

1037
01:20:13.359 --> 01:20:15.880
that you know, although I agree
that he had some very good sources in

1038
01:20:15.960 --> 01:20:19.600
his book, one of the ones
that I would have absolutely advised him against

1039
01:20:19.680 --> 01:20:26.680
using was Beverly Oliver because I simply
don't buy her story. It's that simple,

1040
01:20:27.039 --> 01:20:30.239
you know, and gee, there's
there's reasons for this. But you

1041
01:20:30.319 --> 01:20:33.479
know, I'm wondering if anybody doesn't
know. By the way, just I

1042
01:20:33.520 --> 01:20:36.239
always got to rewind this because you
know, I forget you know, I'm

1043
01:20:36.279 --> 01:20:41.079
speaking to people that understand all this
stuff like I do. And once again,

1044
01:20:42.279 --> 01:20:48.960
blocked number caller. Do you think
I'm kidding that this is? Like

1045
01:20:49.399 --> 01:20:56.159
we learn learned five or six of
these now blocked numbers cannot be accepted.

1046
01:20:57.199 --> 01:21:00.640
Okay, if you allow your number
on, I can bring you into the

1047
01:21:00.720 --> 01:21:04.439
show. Otherwise it doesn't work.
I wonder why they're not letting the number.

1048
01:21:04.479 --> 01:21:06.640
And it's not like they don't have
anything honest to say, do they?

1049
01:21:09.279 --> 01:21:15.359
I don't know because I didn't speak
to them anyway. See, see

1050
01:21:15.560 --> 01:21:18.560
there you go. I had to
put you back into the I hope.

1051
01:21:19.520 --> 01:21:23.119
I'm sorry, Chuck, please go
on. I just wanted to respond real

1052
01:21:23.199 --> 01:21:26.520
quick. Well, okay, the
bat Bushkae lady. Just a quick explanation.

1053
01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:30.880
There is a woman who is easily
seen in the Ubruder film and also

1054
01:21:30.960 --> 01:21:33.399
the next film, the you know, the alleged copies that we have now

1055
01:21:33.439 --> 01:21:38.520
at this point in time, that
is wearing a scarf over her head and

1056
01:21:38.640 --> 01:21:43.840
a coat and all of that,
and she's standing in the vicinity of well,

1057
01:21:43.920 --> 01:21:46.840
let's see, now, let's think
about this, Charles brem Mary Mormon.

1058
01:21:47.119 --> 01:21:50.399
She's on that side of the road, okay, opposite from the grassy

1059
01:21:50.439 --> 01:21:56.359
knoll, and she seems to be
holding something up to her face. And

1060
01:21:56.920 --> 01:22:00.800
for many, many years now,
people have accepted that this is a lady

1061
01:22:00.880 --> 01:22:05.880
named Beverly Oliver. I have reviewed
her accounts of things, I have reviewed

1062
01:22:06.319 --> 01:22:13.720
the photographic evidence. I simply do
not believe her. Now. Could I

1063
01:22:13.840 --> 01:22:16.279
be wrong. It's a possibility,
but that is where I stand on the

1064
01:22:16.359 --> 01:22:19.479
subject. But just so everybody knows, this is who we're talking about.

1065
01:22:19.600 --> 01:22:24.720
And Beverly Oliver used to make a
very big deal out of when she was

1066
01:22:24.760 --> 01:22:28.640
on the Heraldo Show or whatever,
which did remind me just now that we

1067
01:22:28.760 --> 01:22:34.520
did not touch on Madeline Duncan Brown. But anyway, we that before before

1068
01:22:34.520 --> 01:22:41.119
the party time, because the assassination
party is important, isn't it. Okay,

1069
01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:47.560
but hang up on the call here, like the only people in the

1070
01:22:47.640 --> 01:22:51.880
world that weren't active party, because
at one point or another everyone seemed to

1071
01:22:51.960 --> 01:22:58.159
be there. Yeah, absolutely,
even people who were documented as being an

1072
01:22:58.239 --> 01:23:04.000
ass h for for instance, jadg
ro Hoover. Yeah, yeah, too

1073
01:23:04.079 --> 01:23:11.399
many people saw. Yeah, I'm
sorry. I don't want to cut anybody

1074
01:23:11.439 --> 01:23:14.520
off. I was just gonna say
too many people saw an executive action and

1075
01:23:14.640 --> 01:23:19.920
then made that happen in their mind. Yep. I mean it's not that

1076
01:23:20.000 --> 01:23:24.640
it isn't feasible that a meeting occurred
with some people at some point. But

1077
01:23:24.720 --> 01:23:30.560
once again, Johnson had no I
think they're trying to call again. No,

1078
01:23:30.600 --> 01:23:33.000
that's just a little bit of noise
coming off with Charles there real quick.

1079
01:23:33.000 --> 01:23:38.640
I don't know what about that.
My phone slipt on me. But

1080
01:23:39.039 --> 01:23:45.399
but Johnson likely wasn't there. Hoover
likely wasn't there because Hoover wasn't dumb enough

1081
01:23:45.479 --> 01:23:47.760
to go to that meeting. I
mean it's people don't understand. That's an

1082
01:23:47.760 --> 01:23:51.800
implication, and then that's where it
begins. This has to be a small,

1083
01:23:53.119 --> 01:23:57.720
compartmentalized operation. This can't have tons
of people knowing about it. Otherwise

1084
01:23:57.720 --> 01:24:01.720
someone's gonna talk, right. No, nobody's gonna have parties where they invite

1085
01:24:01.800 --> 01:24:09.039
you know, mistresses and random people
uh to appear and actually see for their

1086
01:24:09.079 --> 01:24:12.000
own you know, see with their
own eyes the meetings that occurred. This

1087
01:24:12.119 --> 01:24:16.039
is Oh, you want to know
the best part is it's supposed to be

1088
01:24:16.159 --> 01:24:21.119
at Clint Murchison's house. Funny enough, there are documents showing that Clinton Murchardson

1089
01:24:21.239 --> 01:24:26.760
sold that house in nineteen sixty two. Now I decided, let's throw a

1090
01:24:26.840 --> 01:24:32.439
shindig at my old house. You're
exactly that's right, You're exactly correct,

1091
01:24:32.520 --> 01:24:39.039
Charles. That is one of the
major major issues with this. Another thing

1092
01:24:39.159 --> 01:24:43.960
too, is it's third party too. In a court of law, they

1093
01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:49.000
wouldn't accept hearsay. And in the
documentary they have a maid that is discussing

1094
01:24:49.239 --> 01:24:54.000
what the limo driver had said that
apparently drove Hoover to and from the airport,

1095
01:24:54.079 --> 01:24:57.560
so on so forth. What another
major holder in a court of law,

1096
01:24:57.680 --> 01:25:00.239
that wouldn't be accepted. And I
think that's it's very important to remember

1097
01:25:00.279 --> 01:25:03.600
as well. If it's not accepted
in court, it shouldn't be accepted in

1098
01:25:03.640 --> 01:25:08.399
the court of public opinion either.
Yeah. No, I totally agree with

1099
01:25:08.439 --> 01:25:11.000
that. I get an argument for
people all the time telling me this isn't

1100
01:25:11.000 --> 01:25:13.680
a court. No. But see
a lot of people always talk about how

1101
01:25:13.680 --> 01:25:15.880
they want to reopen the case.
Well, let me tell you a little

1102
01:25:15.960 --> 01:25:18.760
thing. If you want to reopen
the case. You need evidence. You

1103
01:25:18.840 --> 01:25:24.359
can't just guess, right, right, And you know what, I didn't

1104
01:25:24.359 --> 01:25:26.920
even bother. I don't even remember
giving out the phone number, by the

1105
01:25:26.960 --> 01:25:30.800
way, that's the funny part too, uh seven one eight seven one seven

1106
01:25:30.039 --> 01:25:35.680
eight two nine six seven one eight
seven one seven eight two nine six And

1107
01:25:35.960 --> 01:25:40.840
you can't block your number, which, okay, I think it's safe to

1108
01:25:40.920 --> 01:25:45.800
say that we're not paranoid anymore.
No, no, absolutely not. But

1109
01:25:45.920 --> 01:25:51.279
anyway, thanks guys, I appreciate
the house. Well, you know,

1110
01:25:51.720 --> 01:26:00.399
listen, you gotta have a little
bit of fun with this because after a

1111
01:26:00.439 --> 01:26:04.760
while, man, it'll it'll make
you really crazy. Yeah, it's laugh

1112
01:26:04.840 --> 01:26:10.159
a cry and like the laugh,
yeah, exactly, And and you know,

1113
01:26:10.279 --> 01:26:12.760
and the sad thing is that,
you know, again, like I

1114
01:26:12.760 --> 01:26:15.720
said at the top of the show, we take this seriously for our own

1115
01:26:15.800 --> 01:26:19.840
reasons. And you know, it's
not about solving the great crime mystery for

1116
01:26:19.920 --> 01:26:24.560
a lot of people. It's not
about correcting history for a lot of people.

1117
01:26:24.920 --> 01:26:29.199
It's not about you know, it's
all sorts of different motives. But

1118
01:26:29.279 --> 01:26:34.199
here's the thing. If we can
all agree to deal with the realities what

1119
01:26:34.479 --> 01:26:42.439
exists, what's left of the evidence
anyway, okay, and the best documentation

1120
01:26:42.600 --> 01:26:45.000
we can get our hands on,
the best testimony we can get our hands

1121
01:26:45.039 --> 01:26:50.000
on from first hand accounts. You
know, this might become a whole lot

1122
01:26:50.439 --> 01:26:55.560
more simple to deal with, and
it wouldn't have to be something that requires

1123
01:26:55.680 --> 01:27:00.119
a thousand volumes, okay or better. At this point in the literature of

1124
01:27:00.319 --> 01:27:04.439
all sorts of mainstream published books,
which of course we didn't touch on the

1125
01:27:04.479 --> 01:27:10.479
biggest mythology of all, which is
sort of a oh a composite of the

1126
01:27:10.720 --> 01:27:18.319
O'Reilly's posners and uh, Dusty all
of the other Warren Commissioner defenders that have

1127
01:27:18.439 --> 01:27:23.319
been out there, you know,
starting with David Bellin of course, uh,

1128
01:27:23.600 --> 01:27:26.119
moving on well beyond that, of
course. I don't know if you

1129
01:27:26.159 --> 01:27:30.800
guys ever read David Bellin's book about
this. No, no, okay,

1130
01:27:30.920 --> 01:27:36.319
Well, when when you have time
and you feel as though you want to

1131
01:27:36.399 --> 01:27:44.920
lose a few IQ points go writing
it's not I think I lost enough read?

1132
01:27:45.079 --> 01:27:51.800
Yeah, how about Juda's book?
I want my money back. I

1133
01:27:51.880 --> 01:27:55.880
didn't pay for it, so I
got to get I got an autograph copy

1134
01:27:56.000 --> 01:28:00.439
given to me for free. Who
didn't want it anymore? We don't why

1135
01:28:00.520 --> 01:28:04.199
they didn't want it. If we're
lucky as the mistate into obscurity, that'll

1136
01:28:04.239 --> 01:28:08.680
be a rare collector's item. Yeah, no, I'm hoping so. And

1137
01:28:08.760 --> 01:28:12.199
I told you the story Carmine off
the Air about how I got hold of

1138
01:28:12.319 --> 01:28:20.199
my U my Boogliosi book. Right, good one. This is a good

1139
01:28:20.239 --> 01:28:26.520
one, okay, two thousand pages, all right, two thousand pages from

1140
01:28:26.600 --> 01:28:30.159
Boogliosi. And I won't even get
into all the allegations about whether he did

1141
01:28:30.199 --> 01:28:32.319
his own work or anything else.
Nope, I don't need to do that.

1142
01:28:33.479 --> 01:28:35.880
But let me tell you this.
A fifty dollars book is sitting in

1143
01:28:35.960 --> 01:28:42.439
a bookstore discounted on top of discounted, and it became two dollars and fifty

1144
01:28:42.479 --> 01:28:47.279
eight cents. So I decided it
was tiled by the book slash Steed Ram.

1145
01:28:48.920 --> 01:28:53.000
And this was not long after its
release, Ladies and gentlemen, This

1146
01:28:53.079 --> 01:28:59.279
book stop, this doorstop of a
book failed almost right away despite all its

1147
01:28:59.319 --> 01:29:02.560
pre orders. But anyway back to
it, and they released their you know,

1148
01:29:02.640 --> 01:29:04.800
a smaller version of it, you
know later, the four Days of

1149
01:29:04.880 --> 01:29:09.960
November deal. But I got mine, and I decided to go back to

1150
01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:14.119
the rack and buy the other four
that were sitting there because it was two

1151
01:29:14.159 --> 01:29:16.279
dollars and fifty eight cents with tax, by the way, which is seven

1152
01:29:16.319 --> 01:29:20.439
percent in New Jersey. So I'm
not sure exactly the math right this moment,

1153
01:29:20.520 --> 01:29:25.560
but you can do it in your
head. So I walk away with

1154
01:29:25.760 --> 01:29:30.880
this cumbersome stack of books. I
went outside to the nearest dumpster. I

1155
01:29:30.039 --> 01:29:38.439
tore out CD rahm and and an
illustration section of one book, threw four

1156
01:29:38.520 --> 01:29:42.560
of them into the dumpster, and
walked away with my one copy and proceeded

1157
01:29:42.560 --> 01:29:46.960
to torture myself for the next oh
at least a month trying to get through

1158
01:29:47.279 --> 01:29:54.920
this boring thing. Thank you,
Vince Bugliosi. I would really like my

1159
01:29:55.039 --> 01:29:59.680
two dollars and fifty eight cents at
any time now, sir, But I

1160
01:29:59.720 --> 01:30:02.600
would more, you know, since
you have such great uh uh, you

1161
01:30:02.680 --> 01:30:08.119
know, analysis about the universe and
the nature of God in your later books.

1162
01:30:08.399 --> 01:30:11.800
I would really like that portion of
my life returned to me, if

1163
01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:16.880
you can, so I can relive
it without your book. Interest interests would

1164
01:30:16.880 --> 01:30:23.640
be nice, but I'm not demanding
interest anyway. So many guys, I

1165
01:30:23.760 --> 01:30:25.680
just felt like I needed to say
that, because I don't know if I

1166
01:30:25.760 --> 01:30:28.279
ever said that on the air.
But I told Carmind that story and he

1167
01:30:28.319 --> 01:30:30.039
said, you got to you gotta
remember to tell people that. Yep,

1168
01:30:33.600 --> 01:30:39.279
I learned an absolute lesson because the
author of Helter Skelter, or the alleged

1169
01:30:39.359 --> 01:30:45.840
co author of Helter Skelter and Methology, also provides us with an overwhelming,

1170
01:30:46.359 --> 01:30:54.399
boring volume of crap. In the
JFK case, so something too. It

1171
01:30:57.720 --> 01:31:00.960
case closed. Yes, if you
want to do a little bit of damage

1172
01:31:00.960 --> 01:31:05.359
to your frontal lobe, find next
kill kill, killing Kennedy, killing Jesus,

1173
01:31:05.520 --> 01:31:09.439
killing Patton. I think now,
well, yeah, my thing with

1174
01:31:09.560 --> 01:31:14.920
Posner and O'Reilly I think is fairly
well known. With O'Reilly, it's another

1175
01:31:15.000 --> 01:31:17.079
myth maker. And he finally got
caught, which is awesome. And I

1176
01:31:17.239 --> 01:31:23.439
credit the family, I credit Jefferson
Morley, I credit everyone that came out

1177
01:31:23.479 --> 01:31:27.039
against him. People argue with me
about why I liked an article where Hugh

1178
01:31:27.720 --> 01:31:30.000
Ainsworth came out against him, because
he's pro commissioned. I don't care.

1179
01:31:30.640 --> 01:31:35.000
It's the truth. Either you want
the truth or you don't. See that's

1180
01:31:35.039 --> 01:31:38.359
the thing. If the truth is
the truth, that's the end of it.

1181
01:31:38.840 --> 01:31:42.600
And even even with a guy like
McAdams, who has been extremely you

1182
01:31:42.640 --> 01:31:45.239
know, divisive over the years.
I'm sorry. When he's right, he's

1183
01:31:45.319 --> 01:31:48.520
right. Yeah, we're all right. Sometimes we're all wrong sometimes, and

1184
01:31:48.520 --> 01:31:55.159
people need to start realizing that.
Yeah. Absolutely, Okay, So again

1185
01:31:55.439 --> 01:32:03.079
seven nine six and blocked caller,
I cannot take your call. I'm sorry.

1186
01:32:03.760 --> 01:32:08.359
I think we have fans. Is
that seven? I think that's seven?

1187
01:32:08.479 --> 01:32:13.560
It opens now, all right?
Got a government persistence eight for persistence

1188
01:32:13.920 --> 01:32:16.560
for evidence. There you go,
and we're actually an hour and a half

1189
01:32:16.680 --> 01:32:20.600
deep here, so man, oh
man, I'm now just gonna throw it

1190
01:32:20.720 --> 01:32:24.680
open and shut my mouth as best
I can. I'm sorry, guys.

1191
01:32:24.760 --> 01:32:27.640
I know I talk a lot and
I kind of pushed the subjects along,

1192
01:32:27.680 --> 01:32:30.479
but I wanted to make sure we
covered a lot of ground. You're great,

1193
01:32:30.560 --> 01:32:32.840
suck, don't worry about it,
Okay. So if you guys feel

1194
01:32:32.840 --> 01:32:36.239
as though something was left out,
especially you know, because you and I

1195
01:32:36.439 --> 01:32:41.439
kind of dictated the topics a lot
here, Carmine, I'd love to hear

1196
01:32:41.520 --> 01:32:45.039
from Zach and Trish about whatever it
is that they think we left out.

1197
01:32:47.720 --> 01:32:50.399
Okay. Well, one of the
things that it pops into my mind,

1198
01:32:51.359 --> 01:32:57.119
maybe we touched upon it briefly earlier
is door Man, and you know,

1199
01:32:57.760 --> 01:33:00.560
haul peoples tend to think that this
is it's going to be or did,

1200
01:33:00.680 --> 01:33:04.399
and some people still do. I
mean, we have a whole Oswald Is

1201
01:33:04.479 --> 01:33:11.079
Innocent committee that tends to think that
this is the piece of evidence that's going

1202
01:33:11.199 --> 01:33:14.520
to solve this or did solve it
in their minds, but in reality,

1203
01:33:15.680 --> 01:33:17.800
it's really just nothing more than that. As we were talking about before,

1204
01:33:17.840 --> 01:33:23.600
it's just you're staring at blobs.
I mean, I Trician I put out

1205
01:33:23.760 --> 01:33:31.319
an essay about, you know,
our analysis of Judith Baker's Doorman pixation analysis,

1206
01:33:31.720 --> 01:33:36.079
which in reality was really and I
you know, don't mean to criticize

1207
01:33:36.119 --> 01:33:40.119
her particularly, but I guess this
is a criticism. It was a really

1208
01:33:40.239 --> 01:33:45.119
poorly thought out study. It was
extremely juvenile, almost I hate to say.

1209
01:33:45.720 --> 01:33:47.960
She backed it up with pretty much
nothing, and she said this was

1210
01:33:48.039 --> 01:33:53.359
the most important piece of evidence that
she's found to date. And this is

1211
01:33:53.520 --> 01:33:56.000
just a tip of the iceberg.
With this movement. I call it a

1212
01:33:56.079 --> 01:34:01.520
movement because it is they've basically taken
this extremely You refer to Elpkins, it

1213
01:34:01.640 --> 01:34:06.800
was that photograph, and it's they
take the blobs of what you can barely

1214
01:34:06.960 --> 01:34:11.520
make out an image of a face
and and and a body, and they're

1215
01:34:11.600 --> 01:34:15.439
and they're turning it into Oswald and
using it as the touchstone, the Rosetta

1216
01:34:15.520 --> 01:34:18.399
stone for the entire case. I
can't begin to say all you're responsible,

1217
01:34:18.479 --> 01:34:24.239
that is m yeah, yeah no, And and she's not allowed. Other

1218
01:34:24.319 --> 01:34:28.560
people do it too, black dog
man, hole man, prayer man,

1219
01:34:28.880 --> 01:34:31.199
blah man. They make up new
names, They come up with a myth

1220
01:34:31.319 --> 01:34:35.159
and they try to sell it.
What what is the name for that day?

1221
01:34:35.199 --> 01:34:41.600
I always forget go go ahead,
no, go ahead, sorry,

1222
01:34:43.159 --> 01:34:47.000
no, go ahead, go right
ahead. I'm okay. You you just

1223
01:34:47.720 --> 01:34:53.399
you keep you you. You have
to almost wonder what sort of psychological mechanism

1224
01:34:53.920 --> 01:34:58.520
comes into play that allows people to
do with this and then carry this torch

1225
01:34:58.720 --> 01:35:01.319
until then end of their lives.
Almost, I mean goodness, you can

1226
01:35:01.439 --> 01:35:05.640
present evidence that says that you know, well, I think you're wrong here,

1227
01:35:05.720 --> 01:35:09.680
and they just don't want to hear
it. What it almost borders on

1228
01:35:09.800 --> 01:35:12.359
some sort of I don't want to
say, you know, mental illness.

1229
01:35:12.439 --> 01:35:15.880
Almost. Actually, religion is what
I like to use. It's like religion

1230
01:35:16.079 --> 01:35:21.239
they've convinced themselves. You're putting faith
into it. You're putting that right,

1231
01:35:21.319 --> 01:35:26.840
Trista, You're putting faith into something
that's really what it is. I'm myself,

1232
01:35:26.880 --> 01:35:30.560
I'm a faithful person. I'm a
religious man, but I definitely see

1233
01:35:30.640 --> 01:35:34.840
comparisons in the way that you know, there there is no quote unquote evidence,

1234
01:35:35.359 --> 01:35:39.520
you know, hard empirical evidence that
God exists. It's faith. But

1235
01:35:39.640 --> 01:35:44.119
once again, there's no hard empirical
evidence that Oswald was Doorman. But yet

1236
01:35:44.159 --> 01:35:48.000
people still just stick to their guns
and no matter what, and even Oswald

1237
01:35:48.079 --> 01:35:51.319
stated that he wasn't in the doorway. So again going with you know,

1238
01:35:51.479 --> 01:35:55.960
Oswald spoke the truth all the way
through his interrogation and people need to believe

1239
01:35:56.000 --> 01:35:58.760
him, but they don't believe him
on this. He's wrong, he didn't

1240
01:35:58.800 --> 01:36:02.159
know where he was. You know, it seems silly to me. You

1241
01:36:02.199 --> 01:36:06.600
know, it's cherry picking the information
that fits the story. Yep, no

1242
01:36:06.760 --> 01:36:12.880
consistency, absolutely, And uh okay, So we got a question from the

1243
01:36:13.000 --> 01:36:19.239
chat rooms regarding the Don Adams from
an office building with a high powered rifle.

1244
01:36:20.039 --> 01:36:25.960
Uh scenario, what was militier?
Yeah, the whole militier thing.

1245
01:36:26.199 --> 01:36:29.319
Yep. I'll go or one of
you guys can go, whatever you want.

1246
01:36:29.359 --> 01:36:31.119
I'm sure we all know this one. And then after that we have

1247
01:36:31.159 --> 01:36:38.359
another caller, So you want me
to go, are you guys? Okay?

1248
01:36:38.560 --> 01:36:41.279
Miltier, in my opinion, is
a possibility. I think that there

1249
01:36:41.319 --> 01:36:45.560
are some credible researchers out there looking
into the nationalist movement angle. I think

1250
01:36:45.600 --> 01:36:47.800
that they could have been part of
it. But once again, like the

1251
01:36:47.920 --> 01:36:51.800
mafia, they were not in control. It had to be a rogue agent

1252
01:36:53.239 --> 01:36:57.239
or it had to be somebody with
the CIA tactics of the Guatemala documents through

1253
01:36:57.319 --> 01:37:02.079
fifty four to set this up properly. Right. Uh five four oh area

1254
01:37:02.199 --> 01:37:09.079
code. You're on. I'm getting
to schmutz the out of the the chat

1255
01:37:09.159 --> 01:37:11.680
room. Oh well, hold on
a second. I was trying to get

1256
01:37:11.680 --> 01:37:15.359
to the five four oh caller.
Hold on a second. Uh five four

1257
01:37:15.399 --> 01:37:18.640
oh, you're on? How you
doing shows? All right? How you

1258
01:37:18.720 --> 01:37:28.399
doing good? Your boys a part
to the loneom and tie can shut up?

1259
01:37:29.600 --> 01:37:30.920
Hey, I just wanted to call
and tell you all what a great

1260
01:37:31.039 --> 01:37:34.560
job you're doing, and I am
thoroughly enjoying the show and it is much

1261
01:37:35.159 --> 01:37:40.199
needed and much overdue. That's great, man, I'm glad to hear from

1262
01:37:40.239 --> 01:37:46.720
you. Yes, thank you much
talk. H I'm gonna go eat dinner.

1263
01:37:46.760 --> 01:37:50.439
You'll have a great night and I'll
still be listening. Thank you,

1264
01:37:50.880 --> 01:38:02.399
Rob the four oh two area code. You're Ron all right, Yes you

1265
01:38:02.479 --> 01:38:10.039
are. Hey, guys, I
really appreciate this show. This is Fred

1266
01:38:10.159 --> 01:38:17.479
James. Actually wow, yes you
did. You were one of the good

1267
01:38:17.520 --> 01:38:28.279
ones. I thought I thought there
was something that something. Derogats were negative,

1268
01:38:28.319 --> 01:38:35.760
but on this on the thread for
the one, I think it was

1269
01:38:35.840 --> 01:38:40.039
actually mean. I think it was
actually mean. This is Charles Fred.

1270
01:38:40.319 --> 01:38:43.760
I think they was actually mean that
brought up your name, and what I

1271
01:38:43.920 --> 01:38:47.399
was just saying was basically that you
know that you seem to be pretty,

1272
01:38:48.239 --> 01:38:55.079
you know, pretty much into the
Osbald was a lone shooter opinion, and

1273
01:38:55.239 --> 01:38:58.239
I just brought up that there's guys
like you, and the other guy brought

1274
01:38:58.279 --> 01:39:02.359
up was like Steve Rowe who have
these beliefs, but yet you still speak

1275
01:39:02.880 --> 01:39:08.159
to everybody in a respectful manner and
you don't take shots of people just because

1276
01:39:08.199 --> 01:39:14.239
they have different opinions of you.
And that's kind of funny because there's a

1277
01:39:14.439 --> 01:39:17.920
caller that couldn't get in m M. I heard the suggestion that maybe that

1278
01:39:17.960 --> 01:39:26.079
could have been Judith Baker, but
that was actually Steve Rowe we're communicating with

1279
01:39:26.239 --> 01:39:28.720
each other and talking about the show. I mean, you guys are doing

1280
01:39:28.760 --> 01:39:31.840
a good job. Trician Zach are
some of my most favorite researchers ever.

1281
01:39:32.720 --> 01:39:42.640
The on Judith Baker, the pix
of the Generation, the analysis that she

1282
01:39:42.800 --> 01:39:50.399
did, I mean, it just
totally shows it doesn't give her any credibility

1283
01:39:50.640 --> 01:39:57.800
whatsoever because it's just one more points
in these points to just add over and

1284
01:39:57.960 --> 01:40:00.960
over and over again. It just
keeps adding up. And if he keeps

1285
01:40:00.960 --> 01:40:04.439
a bunking the person in different areas
of her, you know, to let

1286
01:40:04.760 --> 01:40:12.279
allegations she's making, how can you
how can you be considered by anybody to

1287
01:40:12.399 --> 01:40:15.439
be credible when you have so many
things that just continues to get knocked down.

1288
01:40:15.800 --> 01:40:17.760
So I don't, you know,
it's just one of those things.

1289
01:40:17.760 --> 01:40:23.600
And I just wanted to show my
appreciation for, uh, the work they've

1290
01:40:23.640 --> 01:40:30.279
done on that and Carline are the
premium that you put on evidence. I

1291
01:40:30.319 --> 01:40:33.359
mean it's just like very strong everywhere
that you put it, and I really

1292
01:40:33.439 --> 01:40:36.560
appreciate that. It keeps me on
my toes. I mean, you you

1293
01:40:36.640 --> 01:40:42.439
guys have seen me in the threads
debating things. I'm kind of nervous.

1294
01:40:42.520 --> 01:40:45.399
So just you're doing great. I
don't worry about it now, Fred kind

1295
01:40:45.399 --> 01:40:48.319
of like, take take it.
Take a breath for a second. Man,

1296
01:40:48.399 --> 01:40:51.319
I want to say something. You're
you're a guy who believes Oswald did

1297
01:40:51.359 --> 01:40:57.960
it. Yeah, actually, uh
a twenty two year journey. I actually

1298
01:40:58.039 --> 01:41:01.520
did think that there's room for a
conspira seat until a little over a year

1299
01:41:01.600 --> 01:41:06.600
ago. I made a little bit
of a transition. In my opinion.

1300
01:41:06.760 --> 01:41:11.399
If there was a conspiracy, it
would have to involve Oswald as a shooter.

1301
01:41:12.039 --> 01:41:15.840
Okay, well, then the conspirators
who would have been involved would be

1302
01:41:15.960 --> 01:41:20.079
unknown at this point. In my
opinion, that's the only way I think.

1303
01:41:20.159 --> 01:41:24.439
I think that's wholly reasonable. Fred, I don't. I don't think

1304
01:41:24.520 --> 01:41:29.199
that we can attribute innocence to Oswald
utterly. That's that's a bias. So

1305
01:41:29.359 --> 01:41:32.079
that's why I think we can get
along is because he has he's a pass.

1306
01:41:32.439 --> 01:41:35.359
That means some sort of connection somewhere. Now, whether he was set

1307
01:41:35.399 --> 01:41:39.359
up early or whether he was part
of the engineering of the plot, I

1308
01:41:39.399 --> 01:41:43.680
think is the question that remains.
Yes, I think that's possible, but

1309
01:41:43.840 --> 01:41:46.920
right now I don't think it's probable. It's it's a possibility in my mind,

1310
01:41:47.000 --> 01:41:49.840
but I just don't think that's what
happened. But that's not why I

1311
01:41:49.960 --> 01:41:55.359
called you to talk about that.
But I just wanted to make one comment

1312
01:41:55.479 --> 01:42:02.880
though about the the Bushy Lady.
Okay, I actually a conference last November,

1313
01:42:03.960 --> 01:42:10.680
and I saw the shoes barely purports
to be the shoes she wore on

1314
01:42:10.840 --> 01:42:15.000
that day. Those are not the
shoes of the bubusk Lady. The shoes

1315
01:42:15.039 --> 01:42:19.600
that you can see clearly in the
the skags and allan photographs. Mm hmm.

1316
01:42:20.199 --> 01:42:25.199
The shoes that she says that are
those, those are clearly not the

1317
01:42:25.239 --> 01:42:29.439
same shoes. Well, you know, you know what happens, Fred in

1318
01:42:29.960 --> 01:42:35.000
the fringe end of this stuff is
obviously the photographs and the films of the

1319
01:42:35.039 --> 01:42:40.560
Bubushku lady wearing those other shoes have
all been drawn in. You know.

1320
01:42:41.000 --> 01:42:45.159
This is the and and believe me, I'm saying this sarcastically. This is

1321
01:42:45.279 --> 01:42:49.159
not my viewpoint, okay, but
this is gonna not exactly what you're saying

1322
01:42:49.479 --> 01:42:54.359
to be saying. This is the
nonsense that will be generated when you present

1323
01:42:54.439 --> 01:42:59.479
them with the contradiction. And here
it is, you know, And I

1324
01:42:59.600 --> 01:43:01.720
just want to SA say really quickly, and I you know, I apologize

1325
01:43:01.880 --> 01:43:03.680
because it is my show. So
I want to say this to you.

1326
01:43:03.760 --> 01:43:09.119
I'm really happy that somebody that thinks
Oswald did it called in. I really

1327
01:43:09.239 --> 01:43:13.399
am, because I'll tell you what, I would believe that a whole lot

1328
01:43:13.520 --> 01:43:18.279
faster than I would ever buy a
tenth of what's in that Me and Lee

1329
01:43:18.359 --> 01:43:25.119
book. Okay I would. I
would gladly accept that a whole lot faster

1330
01:43:25.239 --> 01:43:28.399
than that. And in fact,
I'll tell you a funny thing too.

1331
01:43:28.439 --> 01:43:30.760
And I know I've never said this
anywhere, but the realistic way that I

1332
01:43:30.880 --> 01:43:38.920
started this journey was to disprove conspiracy
theory. I really felt as though it

1333
01:43:39.079 --> 01:43:41.880
was very strange what happened, because
when I was nine years old, I

1334
01:43:41.920 --> 01:43:45.000
thought it was very weird that a
guy was killed while in the custody of

1335
01:43:45.039 --> 01:43:49.439
the police. Okay, that shook
me. But then I thought the kookie

1336
01:43:49.479 --> 01:43:56.199
conspiracy theories are ridiculous, all of
them. Problem is, then we have

1337
01:43:57.199 --> 01:44:00.079
we have common ground there. Yeah, and that's the one thing that needs

1338
01:44:00.119 --> 01:44:03.159
to be pointed out. That's somewhere
where we can come together. And the

1339
01:44:03.239 --> 01:44:09.199
funny thing also is actually, up
until about a year ago, is.

1340
01:44:09.520 --> 01:44:14.199
It was people like Zachtory and Trish
and some other friends that I consider them.

1341
01:44:14.319 --> 01:44:16.479
I really do consider them friends of
mine now and now Kimi, who

1342
01:44:16.560 --> 01:44:23.319
I've gotten to know over the past
several months, actually people who make me

1343
01:44:23.479 --> 01:44:29.079
look at the case from an everydentuary
point of view. That's actually what caused

1344
01:44:29.159 --> 01:44:33.119
my transition. The only room I
leave for a conspiracyal is as I previously

1345
01:44:33.199 --> 01:44:40.239
described, But actually it's these people
who are you know, who I considered

1346
01:44:40.760 --> 01:44:44.359
some of the greatest researchers, who
have shown me that the way to look

1347
01:44:44.399 --> 01:44:49.880
at this is through the eyes,
through the scope of evidence. That's what

1348
01:44:50.039 --> 01:44:55.119
made me the way I am now. I mean, I'm just giving you

1349
01:44:55.119 --> 01:44:57.560
a little bit history about myself.
That's not the reason why I called.

1350
01:44:57.640 --> 01:45:02.439
Just wanted to point out the thing
about the Bush collect But I didn't make

1351
01:45:02.439 --> 01:45:09.600
a transition. I was conspiracy theorists
since the early nineties until last year.

1352
01:45:09.960 --> 01:45:15.760
But because of this show and it
shows like in the research that's going on

1353
01:45:15.560 --> 01:45:19.039
that I can totally agree with,
it makes me want to call in and

1354
01:45:19.319 --> 01:45:23.840
talk to you guys. It makes
me want to chat on the sides because

1355
01:45:23.880 --> 01:45:26.720
we have common ground, We have
a place where you know where we all

1356
01:45:26.840 --> 01:45:31.159
agree that there's some ridiculous things slowed
around out there, and to me,

1357
01:45:31.600 --> 01:45:39.079
it is disrespectful to the history to
have such things out there trying to cause

1358
01:45:39.159 --> 01:45:44.319
division and trying to distort some things
that we can come together and know as

1359
01:45:44.399 --> 01:45:48.239
fact. Some people are just trying
to distort them and in my opinion,

1360
01:45:48.359 --> 01:45:51.439
those things need to be pointed out. That's why this show is very important,

1361
01:45:53.399 --> 01:45:57.319
and people need to look into these
things on their own, do their

1362
01:45:57.359 --> 01:46:00.920
own research and find out for themselves. I mean made trips to Dallas,

1363
01:46:01.000 --> 01:46:04.640
I've talked to Eugene Boon in person. I've done things. I mean,

1364
01:46:04.680 --> 01:46:09.000
I look at things, I measured
things, I go and delie positive and

1365
01:46:09.079 --> 01:46:12.159
do things on my own so I
can find out for myself. I want

1366
01:46:12.199 --> 01:46:16.239
to be. I don't want to
just rely on someone's words or someone's book

1367
01:46:16.359 --> 01:46:20.359
or someone else's research without checking some
of the things out for myself. And

1368
01:46:20.560 --> 01:46:25.920
you know, that's that's my transition. I just a little bit of a

1369
01:46:26.920 --> 01:46:30.640
something I just wanted to put out
there and and realistically that's how I started

1370
01:46:30.720 --> 01:46:34.079
out. That that's exactly how I
started out. Is let me start to

1371
01:46:34.279 --> 01:46:39.119
verify because I happened to be in
proximity to somebody who had been there,

1372
01:46:39.479 --> 01:46:41.439
so I see, and they mentioned
in a book I happen to know that

1373
01:46:41.479 --> 01:46:44.399
they're in a particular city, and
I would just pick up a phone book.

1374
01:46:44.439 --> 01:46:46.079
I know that's an old reference at
this point, but there used to

1375
01:46:46.119 --> 01:46:50.720
be phone books in every city file, yes, sir, and I remember

1376
01:46:50.760 --> 01:46:53.840
those days, yes, you know, And I would pick them up and

1377
01:46:53.880 --> 01:46:57.239
I would say, gee, you
know, I heard that a couple of

1378
01:46:57.279 --> 01:47:00.960
the guys that used to work at
Bethesda are now in Pittsburgh. Hmm,

1379
01:47:01.000 --> 01:47:04.239
guess what. Let me look them
up. And a lot of times their

1380
01:47:04.239 --> 01:47:06.600
phone numbers were listed. And I've
said this on the air before. Some

1381
01:47:06.640 --> 01:47:10.079
people just hang up on me because
who gives a crap, I was a

1382
01:47:10.159 --> 01:47:13.119
kid, whatever, But some of
them would talk to me and tell me,

1383
01:47:13.279 --> 01:47:15.159
well, you know, that's not
exactly what happened, or you know,

1384
01:47:15.319 --> 01:47:19.640
you got to understand this or that. And thus the journey began,

1385
01:47:20.119 --> 01:47:25.239
you know, actually comparing what what
people are saying, witnesses said as opposed

1386
01:47:25.279 --> 01:47:29.359
to what they have to say,
you know, big difference in a lot

1387
01:47:29.399 --> 01:47:33.520
of cases. And I see Fred's
call too, is important because it's showing

1388
01:47:33.600 --> 01:47:36.920
that both sides can agree on some
things, and I think that the most

1389
01:47:38.079 --> 01:47:43.159
research development, and the most progressive
research was done when both sides were able

1390
01:47:43.199 --> 01:47:46.239
to work together at times instead of
always being at each other's throats because they

1391
01:47:46.319 --> 01:47:51.600
disagreed. Oh right, I agree
with that. Yeah, you got to

1392
01:47:51.680 --> 01:47:56.319
realize too that you're not going to
agree on everything. It's just not going

1393
01:47:56.399 --> 01:47:59.319
to happen. That's the nature of
human human nature, I mean, and

1394
01:47:59.399 --> 01:48:04.159
that's the real meaning some people are
some people are Red SOX fans. That

1395
01:48:04.239 --> 01:48:10.239
doesn't mean that you can't, you
know, still get along and have constructive

1396
01:48:10.319 --> 01:48:14.520
discussions just because you're not, Oh
well this, If you don't disagree with

1397
01:48:14.640 --> 01:48:16.159
me, I don't want to talk
to you. That's not the way to

1398
01:48:16.239 --> 01:48:21.560
go about things. And all it
does is create bad feelings. I can

1399
01:48:21.680 --> 01:48:28.880
give ample examples of that with the
base I've had with Trish, with Carmen,

1400
01:48:29.359 --> 01:48:33.520
Carmine, and with Zachary where we
didn't agree, but we always can

1401
01:48:33.600 --> 01:48:39.960
come together and find something where we
do agree, and we the thing that

1402
01:48:40.079 --> 01:48:43.279
we all want for sure. We
want accurate history. We don't want people

1403
01:48:43.399 --> 01:48:47.920
making up things about this tragic event
that affected this the world from the point

1404
01:48:47.960 --> 01:48:51.399
that it happened. It affected not
just the United States, it affected affected

1405
01:48:51.439 --> 01:48:57.319
the whole world, and we take
it serious. We don't want distortion being

1406
01:48:57.399 --> 01:48:59.840
made. We want we want to
find the truth. We're all with the

1407
01:49:00.079 --> 01:49:03.439
the truth, and there's truths on
both sides where we can come together and

1408
01:49:03.560 --> 01:49:06.880
find them. Yep. One of
the one of the better examples of that

1409
01:49:08.520 --> 01:49:12.239
part of the two is sorry,
tris one of the better examples. I

1410
01:49:12.279 --> 01:49:18.239
was going to say A big part
of go ahead, tris. I was

1411
01:49:18.319 --> 01:49:21.880
going to say that was part of
the big downfall with the Garrison investigation was

1412
01:49:21.920 --> 01:49:26.199
he didn't have the resources of the
man power. And if you think about

1413
01:49:26.199 --> 01:49:30.880
it, the most powerful world leader
was assassinated. This is a world stage

1414
01:49:30.960 --> 01:49:34.960
thing. And if there's so many
people throughout the world that are investigating this

1415
01:49:35.119 --> 01:49:39.000
on their private time, they're not
getting paid to do it, et cetera,

1416
01:49:39.039 --> 01:49:42.600
et cetera. And if you know, everybody's heard different legends, different

1417
01:49:42.640 --> 01:49:45.239
stories, they have access to different
information depending on where they are. And

1418
01:49:45.479 --> 01:49:48.960
if we could bring that all together
and harness that and work together, I

1419
01:49:49.039 --> 01:49:53.560
think that we could move mountains together. Yeah, exactly, Well, And

1420
01:49:53.640 --> 01:49:56.000
I was going to say that one
of the best examples of that. To

1421
01:49:56.079 --> 01:50:00.239
be honest with you, and this
is often forgotten, is the universe still

1422
01:50:00.319 --> 01:50:05.000
agreement between people that absolutely believed that
Oswald is the guilty party and the only

1423
01:50:05.079 --> 01:50:10.079
guilty party, and those of us
on the other side of that issue.

1424
01:50:10.600 --> 01:50:15.239
Okay, who came together after the
Oliver Stone thing happened. Okay, and

1425
01:50:15.880 --> 01:50:19.600
the ARRB happened. Now, I
know it's a big, old but document

1426
01:50:19.720 --> 01:50:24.640
dump and it's a hell of a
daunting thing. And I can't even say

1427
01:50:24.680 --> 01:50:29.720
that I've been through all of it
myself, but wow. Yeah, that's

1428
01:50:29.800 --> 01:50:32.079
one point at which we all came
together and said, listen, if this

1429
01:50:32.239 --> 01:50:38.359
is the truth that he did this, then there's no reason to keep withholding

1430
01:50:38.439 --> 01:50:43.000
all of this stuff. Right,
Let's have the files. Let you prove

1431
01:50:43.680 --> 01:50:45.319
that Oswald did it. You know
what, if that's the way it comes

1432
01:50:45.359 --> 01:50:49.880
out, if there is absolute proof
and government hands that shows without any question,

1433
01:50:50.159 --> 01:50:54.840
or not without any question, but
just to a reasonable certainty that that's

1434
01:50:54.920 --> 01:51:00.359
the answer, I might accept it
if and verify it. Yeah, there

1435
01:51:00.479 --> 01:51:02.199
there's a There was a good point. I think it was Walt Brown,

1436
01:51:02.560 --> 01:51:06.279
researcher there, Walt Brown who came
out and he said, if it's such

1437
01:51:06.399 --> 01:51:11.439
cut and dry pace or cut and
dry case, and Oswald is the one

1438
01:51:11.520 --> 01:51:15.920
that did it. Why is there
even one piece of paper being withheld from

1439
01:51:15.960 --> 01:51:21.600
people? If I could in real
quick the castro plots among others. There

1440
01:51:21.640 --> 01:51:28.119
were lots of the legal operations woven
into the assassination and peripheral to it that

1441
01:51:28.239 --> 01:51:30.520
they don't want us to know about. But the bottom line is it's going

1442
01:51:30.600 --> 01:51:33.680
to come out, so holding off
on it just makes you look worse.

1443
01:51:34.159 --> 01:51:40.359
Right, right, and and all
the other position on aarb and and any

1444
01:51:40.439 --> 01:51:45.439
information that may potentially come out.
I want the truth. I can be

1445
01:51:45.520 --> 01:51:49.720
influenced back to the other direction if
the if I figured that the end has

1446
01:51:49.760 --> 01:51:54.840
gone that way, Yeah, if
there's a conspiracy, I mean it's clear

1447
01:51:54.880 --> 01:51:58.520
and plain to me, I'll go
back to the other ways. I'm the

1448
01:51:58.560 --> 01:52:02.199
way I am now because of what
I see it. So if there's no

1449
01:52:02.359 --> 01:52:05.680
you know, I don't have any
biases. I do have biases, and

1450
01:52:05.720 --> 01:52:11.319
I do have emotion about the whole
thing. I'm more emotional about the truth

1451
01:52:11.399 --> 01:52:15.000
now than anything else because after a
while, after a while, that's exactly

1452
01:52:15.039 --> 01:52:18.840
where it goes. Fred, is
that you know you don't any longer care

1453
01:52:18.960 --> 01:52:24.560
about being married to a theory.
Okay, you actually want to know what

1454
01:52:24.800 --> 01:52:29.920
happened. That's it, that's exactly. So let's get I started to find

1455
01:52:30.000 --> 01:52:33.560
things out like I never believed.
I thought was doorway man. But there

1456
01:52:33.600 --> 01:52:38.000
are some other things that I did
believe both. Oh, here's an example,

1457
01:52:39.600 --> 01:52:42.600
the parade roup being changed at the
last at the last minute, which

1458
01:52:42.640 --> 01:52:45.479
I do not believe happened. When
I found out that that was not true,

1459
01:52:46.159 --> 01:52:53.560
I mean I because I was such
a follower of Jim Garrison and other

1460
01:52:53.640 --> 01:52:56.840
things similar to that. When I
found out that those things weren't true,

1461
01:52:57.600 --> 01:53:02.520
it made me like really angry and
emotional. Well fin finding those things out,

1462
01:53:02.640 --> 01:53:06.640
I did not I want I want
it so passed to believe Oswalt was

1463
01:53:06.800 --> 01:53:12.479
completely innocent. Was set up.
I understand, I understand completely. And

1464
01:53:12.640 --> 01:53:15.920
Garrison did very well with what he
had, but he didn't have that much.

1465
01:53:16.479 --> 01:53:19.680
That's what the problem was. Amazingly
he got some of the things that

1466
01:53:19.760 --> 01:53:25.319
he did, but still it's not
a complete you know, we can't deify

1467
01:53:25.399 --> 01:53:27.920
the guy. It doesn't work that
way. Listen, we've got less than

1468
01:53:28.000 --> 01:53:31.640
five minutes left, and Schmutze from
the chat room added back in. So

1469
01:53:31.760 --> 01:53:34.680
I'm wondering, smutzy, what you
got to say, because somehow I don't

1470
01:53:34.680 --> 01:53:38.399
know I've lost you before. Yeah, no, you must have dropped me.

1471
01:53:38.439 --> 01:53:41.600
But that's either humor there. The
recently, what I wanted to just

1472
01:53:41.800 --> 01:53:45.600
throw out there is I remember years
ago I heard of a guy named Don

1473
01:53:45.640 --> 01:53:48.439
Adams. He was supposedly an FBI
man, and I think he wrote a

1474
01:53:48.520 --> 01:53:53.039
book I guess with his take.
I just wanted to know, throw it

1475
01:53:53.079 --> 01:53:56.279
out to the panel and ask them
what you no they thought about you know,

1476
01:53:56.439 --> 01:54:00.640
that particular account. There's also a
well on YouTube video with that guy

1477
01:54:00.720 --> 01:54:06.000
on it as well. I threw
a link to his I think books that

1478
01:54:06.479 --> 01:54:11.199
his website into the chat for anybody
who's interested. They could just scroll up.

1479
01:54:11.359 --> 01:54:15.960
But you know, yeah, I'll
be honest, I haven't seen that,

1480
01:54:16.119 --> 01:54:18.600
so I will definitely review it.
So thank you very much for adding

1481
01:54:18.640 --> 01:54:23.159
that, Smithy, I do appreciate
that, Chuck, you were telling me

1482
01:54:23.199 --> 01:54:27.760
a little bit about him. Well
all right, Well, the Don Adams

1483
01:54:27.840 --> 01:54:35.319
thing is largely based again on the
Milty Air story, and the problem with

1484
01:54:35.439 --> 01:54:42.119
that is that it doesn't really go
anywhere unfortunately, and there's a lot of

1485
01:54:42.359 --> 01:54:47.000
things that FBI agents retired FBI agents
have come out and said, and it's

1486
01:54:47.079 --> 01:54:54.319
really all over the mast. Don
Adams in some ways revisits a lot of

1487
01:54:54.479 --> 01:54:59.479
very old sort of ideas about the
assassination. Because this guy who was literally

1488
01:54:59.560 --> 01:55:06.680
involved in fundraising for extreme causes,
especially racial causes, literally taking money from

1489
01:55:06.720 --> 01:55:12.640
people at certain points to promote the
idea of the assassination of doctor Martin Luther

1490
01:55:12.760 --> 01:55:15.640
King, Okay, to try and
collect money for those that would want to

1491
01:55:15.640 --> 01:55:20.279
support his assassination. This guy's literally
guilty of that kind of stuff, and

1492
01:55:20.600 --> 01:55:26.399
Adams had a little bit of direct
knowledge about this particular individual. Now,

1493
01:55:26.520 --> 01:55:30.439
as for his involvement in the Kennedy
assassination, I think it's a little far

1494
01:55:30.560 --> 01:55:33.279
fetched because they've sort of tied it
to another one of these very blurry images

1495
01:55:33.800 --> 01:55:40.640
in Dally Plaza. It is,
however, remarkable that it seems as though

1496
01:55:40.680 --> 01:55:45.600
he had some advanced knowledge. But
then again, this type of advanced knowledge

1497
01:55:45.159 --> 01:55:49.199
was in a lot of different cities. This is again another reason why I

1498
01:55:49.279 --> 01:55:54.199
don't buy the whole it's a Dallas
plot and it's the oil men and all

1499
01:55:54.279 --> 01:56:00.159
this other stuff. I don't think
that Miltier was a player personally, but

1500
01:56:00.680 --> 01:56:03.319
he's definitely a figure worth researching because
the guy was involved in all sorts of

1501
01:56:03.720 --> 01:56:10.800
chicanery regarding uh racial politics and and
support of that kind of stuff at that

1502
01:56:11.119 --> 01:56:16.439
very Yeah. Now, I think
I think that Milkier Milkier largely was a

1503
01:56:16.640 --> 01:56:27.000
mid level leader in the racist movement. Yeah, he was a mid level

1504
01:56:27.079 --> 01:56:30.720
leader. He was. I'm not
saying that it isn't possible that he could

1505
01:56:30.720 --> 01:56:35.079
have heard wind of something somewhere,
but he had no direct knowledge in my

1506
01:56:35.239 --> 01:56:40.479
view. And I also think that
it was more of a response to Hoover

1507
01:56:40.680 --> 01:56:45.479
utilizing illegal methods to destroy the Klan. You got it, that he would

1508
01:56:45.520 --> 01:56:47.720
want to kill JFK, not any
of the reasons people try to attribute,

1509
01:56:48.239 --> 01:56:53.560
right, right, and look,
it's just the timing issue. Yeah,

1510
01:56:53.840 --> 01:56:57.600
absolutely, it isn't it. And
it's an interesting subject worthy of study all

1511
01:56:57.680 --> 01:57:01.439
on its own. Okay, uh
uh had what Stu x lare on and

1512
01:57:01.520 --> 01:57:06.840
we discussed this, you know,
regarding the MLK assassination and the different plots

1513
01:57:06.880 --> 01:57:12.279
that arose, and Miltier is tied
to that. Whenever you want to do

1514
01:57:12.439 --> 01:57:16.840
MLK or jfor RFK, you let
me know anytime I think we're going to

1515
01:57:16.920 --> 01:57:20.479
have to revisit this subject though,
because guys, we're just about out of

1516
01:57:20.560 --> 01:57:26.319
time. I want to thank first
of all Carmine Sabastano, who is you

1517
01:57:26.399 --> 01:57:30.159
know, a recurring guest here now, and also first time guests Trish Fleming

1518
01:57:30.640 --> 01:57:40.800
and Zachary Jandro right jendro see,
I knew, it's great. It's okay.

1519
01:57:40.840 --> 01:57:45.119
You should hear what people do to
my names. It's amazing. It

1520
01:57:45.319 --> 01:57:49.560
looks pretty simple to me, you
know. But anyway, so I want

1521
01:57:49.560 --> 01:57:53.640
to thank everybody who decided to tune
in, and of course all the people

1522
01:57:53.680 --> 01:57:56.760
that are going to catch this later
on down the line on YouTube or if

1523
01:57:56.760 --> 01:58:00.319
you've downloaded and shared it with your
friends or whatever else. The Ocelli effect

1524
01:58:00.439 --> 01:58:03.800
is just about done, and you
can find the archives at the at uc

1525
01:58:04.039 --> 01:58:10.319
y dot tv slash toe archives are
there, Links to the YouTube playlist are

1526
01:58:10.399 --> 01:58:15.279
there. Plus I will post this
show on the blind JFK Researcher channel on

1527
01:58:15.560 --> 01:58:20.279
YouTube. Uh for the I don't
know how many subscribers are over there now,

1528
01:58:20.359 --> 01:58:24.720
but I'm not very active, except
I do post these shows because I

1529
01:58:24.800 --> 01:58:29.319
think they're valuable and I think that
we did some serious damage to the mythology

1530
01:58:29.800 --> 01:58:34.960
tonight, although there is more to
go oh yeah, so schwitze Man,

1531
01:58:35.039 --> 01:58:41.680
thanks for calling in, and a
big thank you to Fresh Thanks, thanks,

1532
01:58:42.560 --> 01:58:45.760
thanks for putting up my nervousness.
Not a problem, brother, The

1533
01:58:45.880 --> 01:58:49.000
truth is the thing. Thank you, Charles. Also for calling in.

1534
01:58:49.199 --> 01:58:55.000
Dot Gun absolutely man. And you
know what, maybe we'll have to well

1535
01:58:55.039 --> 01:58:56.920
I don't know when we're gonna plan
it, but we're gonna have to do

1536
01:58:57.039 --> 01:59:15.720
this again. I think us bat
like us, don't comes down sideway stains,

1537
01:59:15.199 --> 01:59:23.119
come of g comes down side y
grant chust so does so does branchas

1538
01:59:23.239 --> 01:59:30.640
has telegrays does go past set.
The guy got t w n type n

1539
01:59:30.039 --> 01:59:36.760
y dost or snow dot n y
s n g L everybody does sound block

1540
01:59:36.840 --> 01:59:43.079
down or SnO side by side siding. The sky's got like a sky turned

1541
01:59:43.159 --> 01:59:44.359
t d scot