WEBVTT

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Hey, Hey, hope you're doing
well. This is a special edition.

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We haven't done a special edition on
Earth Ancients in a few months now.

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And I ran into Robert Shock,
Doctor Shock a few months ago, and

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I said, we want to get
you on here. And this is before

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we had doctor Karacooney, the Egyptologists
talking about repurposing, reusing coffins and funerary

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items during the Dynastic period. And
every time, you know, we were

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speaking, every time I was mentioning
a statuary to Kara, Robert's research came

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up. In my mind. I
thought, I got to get Robber on

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the show. Because the ultimate,
the ultimate repurposed Egyptian statue is the Great

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Sphinx. And it's funny because you're
gonna hear Robert's feeling on this topic.

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But if you go to Wikipedia,
if you go to Britannica Encyclopedia, if

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you do a search for the history
of the Sphinx, everybody will refer to

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the pharaoh Caffrey as the builder,
the one who had the limestone cut out

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of the enclosure and made into the
statue, which we now today recognize as

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a pharaoh on the body of a
lion. Now, what's strange about this

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is that if you go and I've
been to Egypt half a dozen times to

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see this sphinx, if you look
at it from an elevated position on the

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ground wherever you are, the head
does not fit the body. It's disproportionate.

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It's smaller than the body, you
know, right off the bat.

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And I'm a trained illustrator, so
I have to, you know, use

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my eyes and my to gauge things. When you look at the sphinx,

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the head not only is it disproportionate, it's it's completely alien to the rest

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of the body, meaning that whoever
the artists were, or artists most more

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than one artist, perhaps an architect
who created the head, they did not

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find they did not follow the contour
of the body. This is another issue

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that comes up, and perhaps the
most convincing is the head stone. The

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stone that's used to cut the head
is not the same stone that is on

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the body. And this is the
big issue that John Anthony West and Robert

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Shock brought out in the late nineteen
nineties when they published their work on the

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Great Sphinx. There's an amazing TV
series on the Sphinx that went viral for

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that time. Of the period.
Millions of people saw it, and it

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ultimately ultimately led to a debate with
Mark Lerner, an American egyptologist who at

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the time was considered one of the
great egyptologists of the world, and John

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Anthony West and Robert Shock. And
Lerner's famous words were, well, if

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this original body on the sphinx is
as old as you say it is,

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and you know, Shock, Robert
and John Anthony Us were saying, it's

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several thousand years older than Coffrey,
show me the potshards. Show me the

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potshards that identify this earlier people.
Well, at that time, no one

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had really done that kind of research. Robert Shock was looking at it from

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a geological point of view, the
weathering, and you know, this is

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the story goes that it was basically
kind of laughed at, and geological research

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wasn't accepted at that time. Later
he was able to validate, Robert Schuck

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was able to validate the weathering with
others who are geologists who actually saw it.

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And there's been a couple of geologists
who have actually gone out to the

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Giza Plateau to see the sphinx in
person and made the same comments. So

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this is a huge deal. And
I've come to and I mentioned this in

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the interview today. I think a
lot of alternative researchers like myself have come

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to the conclusion that if a person
is educated in a certain field, and

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in this case, archaeology, egyptology
and all the books that they study,

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under all the professors and everybody that
is providing them with data to get their

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PhD or credential, say there's no
evidence of a sophisticated people before, say,

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five thousand years ago, then that's
just the way that they think.

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That's what that's as far as they
can stretch. And Robert goes even further

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to say that egyptology is a social
science, it's not really a true science.

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And of course that's a bit of
a slap to the face of egyptologists

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and archaeologists, but that's basically it. You know, he's basically saying it

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flat out that these guys are not
studying science and they're not using scientific methods

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in their evaluations of these ancient relics. So today we're going to speak on

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We're going to open the show discussing
the reuse of the original sphinx the age,

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and he's coming up with some new
dates the age of the Great Sphinx.

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And then we move over to a
fascinating topic, which is repurposing buildings.

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And there's an article that I would
suggest you read this on Robert Schock's

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website. It's called a Hypothesis regarding
the Ancient and Intentional Burial of Egypt.

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And this is an article that his
wife Katie Ulysses and Robert penned about twenty

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four months ago, maybe a little
less than two years in which they were

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at Karnak in Egypt. Karnak is
a temple, a very famous temple,

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and they were looking at the entrance
and they had found some very early turn

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of the century images of when it
was first discovered and it was buried.

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It was fully buried, and Robert
went on to discover that some of the

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pillars were much older than had been
thought, and there's great evidence for it

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to be significantly older than the Old
Kingdom when it was thought to have been

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built, and that's typically around twenty
five hundred BC, roughly five thousand years

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ago. So this has been my
big issue is that I think not only

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the Great Pyramids and the Giza Plateau, but these templed karnak hathor even looks

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are are likely to have been repurposed
and reused over thousands and thousands of years.

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And we'll here today from Robert Shock
on his research and his collaboration with

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other scientists to discover that there is
evidence of an earlier people in the remains

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of these places, of these temples, and that he applauds the new generation

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of archaeologists and egyptologists because the old
school must die. The Zahie Haas is

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the Mark Lerners and these old old
thought leaders which are today's history books.

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And you know, zahie Owas is
traveling in the United States. It's really

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sad, and he's the one.
He's kind of the spokesman. And this

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is here's the guy who doesn't even
for many years didn't even know where go

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Beckley Teppy was. And he's the
spokesman for Egyptology. Well that's just the

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way it is. But here on
Earth ancients we have people like doctor Karakuni.

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And if you weren't blown away by
what she had to say about ancient

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Egypt, you should get her a
book that's coming out in August. We're

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gonna have Cara back, which he
probably early next year to talk about another

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book on repurposed items, repurpose artifacts. So this repurposing has been a shocker

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for me. I don't know if
it's made you aware of a real personality

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issue with these dynastic pharaohs to go
in to crips, into burials and pull

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out the gold, the death masks, the gems, and displacing the mummies,

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the bodies of various coffins and using
those coffins after repurposing them. So

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that's funny. So and I mentioned
that today on our show with Robert Shock,

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because he has known about this for
a long time. And what's really

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kind of a blower is he mentions
this. He mentions that John Anthony West

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not only was he aware of the
repurposing of the Sphinx, but he believed

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that many many temples were significantly older. And I remember talking to John and

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this is like nineteen ninety seven is
what I'm gonna say, maybe ninety six

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here in San Francisco, and we
were talking about the Great Age of the

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Giza Plateau at that time. Of
course he was talking about the Sphinx prior

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to his television program, but he
was very much aware of repurposing. In

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fact, his mentor Schwaler de Lubitch, who he based his book Serpent in

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the Sky, was also a believer
in mass repurposing. This is a real

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tell tale sign of great age,
and we see it in Mexico with the

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Maya. And I for a fact
know flat out that most of the major

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pyramids, and we're talking at Chichinita
Ushmo' I think even at Edzna and flat

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out at Tikal, the biggest in
the oldest sites were completely and repeatedly repurpose

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reused by different generations. So we
need to wake up to this because when

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we begin looking at this and thinking, okay, wait a minute, how

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old truly is this? Are we
dating these civilizations on the last versions or

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as an example, at Chichinitsa,
at the pyramid there at the El Castillo.

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What we see in the pyramids covering
is the last phase. There's three

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other phases inside the outer shell,
the outer stone shell, carving shells been

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is covering up three other phases.
Now, they they say they have dated

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in the second are the Yeah,
the second phase to a few thousand years

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before that. But I think they're
missing the point. And I think that

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you know, like I mentioned,
if you're only educated to go so far,

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We've got to get some other science
in there. We got to get

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some other science to look at the
possibilities that flat out. What the Mayas

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of Maya have been saying for generations
is that they come from a very old

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civilization. They came from a place
called Atlan, and their ancestors were the

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brilliant ones. They were the ones
who were looking at astronomy and they were

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looking at mathematics. I mean,
the Maya are brilliant, But the Maya

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that we are given today, the
portrayal Maya written about in National Geo and

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the Smithsonian are bloodthirsty warrior kings,
and those are just not the same people

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that built these complex cities and aligned
them to various constellations. Now, who

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in the hell is gonna align an
entire city with a constellation. Why would

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you do that? Well, we're
missing a whole science. We're missing a

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science of energetics, of gravity,
toleric fields, toleric energy. This is

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all a physics and a science that
was developed in the last epoch prior to

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nine thousand, five years ago.
Just have to deal with this backwards kind

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of forced historical notion that is based
on poor and faulty assumptions. So so

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today's program is Forgotten Civilization. And
my guest today is doctor Robert Shock.

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All right, we're launching our official
twenty twenty five tour to Easter Island with

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my friend and co host, doctor
Edwin Barnhard. We have ed with us

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right now and talk about some of
the creature comforts of this island, because

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when I think of Easter Island,
I think of you know, plant teens

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roughing it overnight in the sleeping bag. But that's not the case, is

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it. No, not at all. It is surprising. You'd think,

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you know, so remote, there
must be nothing there, but actually the

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town of Hangaroa is very well suited
for accommodating tourists. There are wonderful hotels.

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Our is this this little garden paradise
that's got high speed internet and a

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beautiful pool to swim. I'm in
and just a block away start these wonderful

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gourmet restaurants. You know, Chili
is the owner of Easter Island technically,

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and those guys are really just gourmet
foody people, and it's rubbed off on

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Easter Island. There are wonderful steak
and lobster restaurants, but even when you

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go in a little sandwich shop,
they really take pride in how they make

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it. Yeah, a funny thing
happened. I tried to get them to

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give me some box lunches last time
I was there, and they said,

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no, that's uncivilized. Come back
to town and have a nice meal.

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So we did. So it's you
know, it's a wonderful town. And

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spread within the town are actually standing
moi from the ancient times. There's one

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overlooking their their soccer field right at
the edge of the water, and it's

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just so amazing. They're you know, they're their moms and dads are in

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the audience, but so are the
ancestors in that particular soccer field. It's

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the revenue. We people are lovely, wonderful, a common people, and

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people are going to be surprised about
just how comfortable we are turning the week

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amazing March fifteenth through the twenty third. For more information, go to Earthancients

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00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:15.320
dot com, forward slash tours and
register as soon as you can. All

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right ed, We'll look forward to
hearing more from you later. Thanks Cliff.

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The question that we've had continually is
just how old Egypt is. We've

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had doctor Karacunion recently talking about the
odd repurposing of ancient relics, funerary items,

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and as shocking as it is,
we've just discovered that the King tut

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death mask was not made for Tuton
Common it was made for one of his

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relatives, and this is becoming more
and more of a problem. Unfortunately,

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you're not hearing about this in the
general sense of the information. In other

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words, it's not being published widely, although there are books about it.

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And today we are inviting back doctor
Robert Schock, who's a regular with us

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here in Earth Ancients, to talk
about an article he wrote on the subject,

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but we want to start with the
Sphinx itself. So hey, Robert,

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welcome back to Earth Ancient. It's
great to see, Thank you,

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thank you. It's a pleasure to
be here. I want to start.

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And this is something that I didn't
realize until I was reading some of your

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early work, that the Sphinx it
was repurposed by Caffrey. And yet when

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I look at the Britannica and other
Wikipedia and other resources, it's never presented

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it that way. All the literature
says that Caffrey was the original architect,

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the mind behind this amazing structure.
And yet anyway you look at it,

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this addition, this repurposing, isn't
part of the original work. Talk a

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little bit about that. Yeah,
it's very interesting. And I first got

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involved in this through John Anthony West
back in the late nineteen eighties, so

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I've been doing this for a long
time. I first went to Egypt in

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nineteen ninety to study just this very
issue, and that is what we could

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now call the repurposing of what what
became the Sphinx, and the standard story,

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the traditional story that you're referring to, which is still in most of

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the major textbooks, and we'll call
it conventional status quo. Articles and literature

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and something like Wikipedia tends to be
pre status quo by their own admission.

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The conventional view is that the Sphinx
was ordered to be carved by Cofrey,

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also known as the Pharaoh, who
ordered the building of the second Pyramid.

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That can be questioned also, and
that the Sphinx, so let's focus on

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the Sphinx now, was carved by
Coffrey or at his orders. He didn't

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physically carved himself. As part of
his funerary present precinct with the Second Pyramid,

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et cetera. And the Sphinx,
sits just due east of the Second

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Pyramid, is traditionally considered part of
that complex, with the causeway that runs

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from actually south of the Sphinx up
to the Second Pyramid, and it's really

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all based on the location of it. To me, it's very much like

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saying that you have, in modern
terms, structure like the Colisseum in Rome,

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which we know goes back to the
first century AD, but you know,

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thousands of years from now, someone
excavates that and they excavate a twenty

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first century building next door to it, and they say, well, these

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all fit together. It's all in
the same area. They must all be

202
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the same day. So I'm being
a little bit facetious, but not really,

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because this is essentially what the Egyptologists
do, but they had more evidence

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that So when you look at the
Sphinx, it is a human face on

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a lion's body as we currently see
it, and many Egyptologists claimed Mark Laner

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is one of them who wrote articles
about this. They claim that if you

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look at the face of Kafra,
the pharaoh from circa twenty five hundred BC

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or BCE, fourth Dynasty, reputed
builder of the Second Pyramid, if you

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look at his face, and we
can look at his face, because there

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are several statues that reputely depict Cofreight, and you look at the face of

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the Sphinx, they say, oh, it's the same face, despite the

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fact that the sphinx has lost its
nose, despite the fact that the jaw

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line is very different, etc.
Etc. I when I first went to

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Egypt in nineteen ninety, one of
the observations I saw was, No,

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it doesn't look like the same face
to me. But what does it?

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What does my opinion matter? Because
I'm just dumb geologists with a PhD in

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00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:08.240
geology and physics, geology and geophysics, and you know the Egyptologists, you

218
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know, who are you to judge
faces? So actually we did have when

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00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:18.759
I say we, John Anthony West, and I did have uh forensic expert

220
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:22.240
who is now deceased, but he
was the Police Department in New York City,

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00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:30.319
Frank Domingo. He he handalyzed the
face of the sphinx and the faces

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00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:33.160
of Copper that are known and came
to the conclusion all the faces of Kaffer

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are the same person. The Sphinx
is a totally different face, different persons,

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so that blew that out of the
water. The second piece of evidence

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that they use, then I'll get
to my evidence for older Sphinx. The

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second piece of evidence that they used, besides just a general round plan of

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the Giza plateau and that sits near
the second pyramid, the second was the

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so called stella between the pause of
the Great Sphinx, and that's the Tutmosis,

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the fourth Dream Stella, as it's
known, it dates from about fourteen

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00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:14.599
hundred BCE, so good millennium and
more about eleven hundred years earlier than Kafra,

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And on the register on the stella, it's said at one point in

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the nineteenth century when it was first
excavated, there was a partial cartouche that

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said Kach and the people interpreted this
as Kafra. That cartouche partial cartouche has

234
00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:38.400
simply has since been lost, so
we don't even have it anymore. We

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only have records of drawings of it
that were made in the nineteenth century,

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and it's unclear exactly what it said. The Egyptologists since then, in many

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cases have claimed that this said that
Kaufra had the sphinx carved just as they

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thought it should be the case,
but the actual inscription did not indicate that

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00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:07.839
unequivocally. In fact, one possibility
is that not Coffer at all that was

240
00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:14.480
being referred to. Another possibility,
which I put a lot of value in,

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is that, yes, it was
the name Kaffra, but what it

242
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:23.279
was saying is that Kafa restored and
repurposed and reused this statue, just as

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00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:30.200
Totmoses the fourth was saying on the
stella, he had done. He dug

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00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:33.240
it out of the sand because they
had been buried up to its neck and

245
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:37.400
sand, and he dug it out
and restored it. And I believe what

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00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:41.599
he was saying on the stella,
and what we have remains fits this corroboration

247
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:49.680
says is that one thousand plus years
earlier, his predecessor Kaffer had found this

248
00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:55.720
ancient statue and dug it out of
the sand and restored it. So let's

249
00:24:55.759 --> 00:25:00.279
look at the restorations. When you
look at the sphinx. One of the

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00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:08.799
first observations I made was that the
sphinx is eroded by water water coming down

251
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:15.160
from above. It's not nile flooding. It's not rising, you know,

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Nile levels. Some people suggest that, oh, you're right about the water,

253
00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:22.559
but no, it's from the Nile. No, this is precipitation,

254
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:30.079
rain from above and rain runoff.
Because we have vertical fissures that are very

255
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:34.920
diagnostic, we have what I call
round and rolling erosion, weathering erosion.

256
00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:41.920
When I present this first to my
geological colleagues back in nineteen ninety one,

257
00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:45.720
they basically said to me, Oh, that's nice. This is geology.

258
00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:52.079
It's pretty simple. Why didn't anyone
ever talk about this before? I mean

259
00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:56.160
they were almost I was almost insulted
because they were saying, well, this

260
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:00.559
is such simple stuff. You're here
at this annual talking about something that's so

261
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:07.279
simplistic. And yes, I'm talking
about something so simplistic because it has such

262
00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:12.880
ramfications. It has such bearing because
it goes. It means that the sphinx

263
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has to go back to pre Saharic
period. It's limestone, right, Robert,

264
00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:26.039
it's limestone. It's eosine limestone,
enclosure, the whole enclosure, the

265
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:30.200
whole enclosure. Most of the rocks
on the plateau are sene limestones. You

266
00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.640
get some mycene rooms. Let me
just stop you real quickly. Does that

267
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:37.400
include the Sphinx Temple? Is that
the same that includes the Sphinx Temple?

268
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:41.799
Yes? Okay, so all those
mygolithics are okay, good, Yes,

269
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:47.079
with the newmulities with sea urchins in
it, et cetera. Uh, there's

270
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:49.960
some coral shoals, uh if you
know. So, Yeah, it's all

271
00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:56.839
limestone. And what I want to
point out is that we have rain weathering.

272
00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:00.279
It has to go back to pre
Saherte. We know that it's been

273
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:06.480
hyper error. Yeah, you have
rain sometimes on the plateau. I've been

274
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:11.200
there where it's rained. That's not
the point to get a meter or more

275
00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:17.160
of weather in deep erosion. Those
fissures et cetera in a limestone what we

276
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:23.640
could call charstic situation cast is the
way limestone erodes people can think of limestone

277
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:27.640
caves, et cetera. In fact
that it's a plateau is riddled with natural

278
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:33.680
caves underneath, any of which have
been extended. But that's part of the

279
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:40.279
limestone karst features, which goes back
to a pre Sahara bi magic period.

280
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:44.559
And the boord body as I call
it, of the Sphingx goes back to

281
00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:48.480
this pre Sahara climatic period. Well, let me stop you right there.

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One of the things that John Athany
West told me in an a lecture and

283
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:57.720
also in an interview, and he
was not as critical as you were.

284
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:02.880
He was thinking twenty plus thousand years
ago. Yeah, I know where that's

285
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:06.279
coming from. Okay, but what
do you what are you are? You're

286
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:10.720
more concerned? What are you saying
now now today, twenty twenty five?

287
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:15.079
Today? Now today? Okay?
So let me just continue a little bit.

288
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Has to go back to pre Sahara
times initially, and I'll come to

289
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:26.359
now today. Initially, I said, as a geologist, given the amount

290
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:29.519
of weathering erosion that we see on
the surface, it has to be at

291
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:34.319
least five thousand My initial date was
five to seven thousand BCE. Throw that

292
00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:38.200
out now. To get to the
bottom line, I think it's before the

293
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:42.720
end of the last I SAG about
ten thousand BCE. And I say this

294
00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:48.240
for two reasons. One because it
fits well basically, one reason it fits

295
00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:52.640
all the data better. But some
of the data that it fits better now

296
00:28:52.880 --> 00:29:00.079
is when you look at the subsurface
weathering, not erosion, but weathering mineralogical

297
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:06.079
changes. Basically, because we've found
we looked at that seismically. So we

298
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:10.880
use seismic techniques to look at the
subsurface and you can see the depth of

299
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:17.680
weathering down from the surface once the
bedrock was exposed, so the floor of

300
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:21.599
the sphinx enclosure. And I hope
I'm making sense. So you have the

301
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:25.440
sphinx enclosure, you had all this
rock up here, you carve that out

302
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:30.000
to free up the body of the
sphinx, and then once you have the

303
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:34.759
level there, you keep weathering down. There's mineralogical changes that occur, and

304
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:41.720
so the deeper that is, the
longer it's been since the rock. And

305
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:47.319
you can do a comparative. You
can do a comparison of the weathering and

306
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:49.240
come up with that date of ten
thousand, right, And you can do

307
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:53.680
a comparison of the weathering, come
up with the date and the best model

308
00:29:55.039 --> 00:30:00.920
is are the best quantification of it. I'm convinced it's about ten thousand for

309
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:06.319
that initial carving out of the body. And we did this using as a

310
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:11.160
control known Old Kingdom structures and when
they were carved out, So we have

311
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:17.319
structures that are twenty five hundred BCE. Without doubt. We've got hieroglyphic inscriptions

312
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:23.000
on them, and they are not
weathered subsurface weathering to the same extent as

313
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:26.359
the sphinx. In fact, we're
talking half or less for those. So

314
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:33.480
what you have is the core body
of this great statue I'm convinced goes back

315
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:38.160
to about ten thousand BCE. And
when you compare weathering types on the plateau,

316
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:44.279
you have the rain precipitation weathering for
the core body of the sphinx.

317
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:51.160
Everywhere else for the dynastic known dynastic
tombs and structure, you have wind weathering,

318
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:56.079
which looks very very different. In
wind weathering, you get a very

319
00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:00.880
distinct profile where you've got flat surfaces, desert varnish on it. But then

320
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:06.240
the softer layers we'll just call them
softer layers. And limestone is like a

321
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:10.799
layer cake, so it's all these
different layers, and the softer layers get

322
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:15.240
picked out by the sand and grains
and the wind, and so you get

323
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:19.480
these wind tunnel effects which are very
very prominent on the plateau. They are

324
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:27.480
exactly the same limestone as the sphinx
enclosure. Zaiha was at one point asked

325
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:37.480
some geologists from Cairo University to disprove
me by stating that the wind weathering was

326
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:41.519
a different limestone than the sphinx enclosure
and the body of the sphinx, and

327
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.039
that's why they look different, not
because the sphinx was older. They came

328
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:51.079
back and said, no, Shock
is right, they're exactly They're exactly the

329
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:57.319
same limestone layers, and there is
a difference in the weather and those They

330
00:31:57.319 --> 00:32:01.200
were never heard from again, of
course. I mean, it just went

331
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:07.119
back to other academic studies that happened
to them. Let me ask you real

332
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:12.279
cleuarly stop you for a moment.
Let's talk about repurposing. Yeah, so

333
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:17.160
I want to get any do we
have any idea what the original sculpture had

334
00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:22.799
was absolutely absolutely How don't we know
that? That? So the repurposing.

335
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:30.920
So you had this huge you had
this huge structure. Some people call it

336
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:37.680
the greatest, you know, monumental
sculpture on Earth. Going back, its

337
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:44.200
origins go back to about ten thousand
BCE, the Dynastic Egyptians starting about three

338
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:49.160
thousand uh BCE. So I'm just
thinking in terms of unification of Egypt,

339
00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:57.720
earliest Dynastic Egypt, uh they inherited
this monumental structure, which was deeply eroded

340
00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:01.000
by that time because it was seven
thousand years old. I'm just giving approxate

341
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:06.440
numbers. And what they did.
They did two things. One they tried

342
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:08.640
to repair the body as best they
could. And when you look at the

343
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:13.119
body of the sphinx now, you'll
see it has all kinds of repair blocks

344
00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:16.680
on it. Some go back to
old Kingdom times. According to Zai Hawas,

345
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:21.799
he told me that specifically and has
published that that some of those repaired

346
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:24.920
blocks go back to virtually the time
that they claimed the sphinx was card which

347
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:32.599
makes no sense. How did or
more within a century or so. That's

348
00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:38.359
actually something we'll talk about this later, but that's something we talk about in

349
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:43.839
the children's book that my wife just
wrote. Uh, so you know,

350
00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:51.039
even the young people should learn about
this. But this this body was deeply

351
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:54.240
eroded, so they repaired it.
But the head, the head of the

352
00:33:54.319 --> 00:34:00.559
sphinx. When I first went to
Egypt back in nineteen ninety one, initial

353
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:05.240
observation, literally within the first ten
minutes of beyond the plateau and looking at

354
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:08.280
the sphinx is there's something wrong with
the head. The head is too small

355
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:15.159
for the disproportionate it's disproportionately small.
And what I am one hundred percent convinced

356
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:20.840
of is that they had a very, very a road it head. And

357
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:24.280
what do you do with a road
it head? It was really impractical apparently

358
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:29.480
for them, or they didn't desire
to try to repair the head and cobble

359
00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:32.159
pieces all on the head to put
it back together or to repair it.

360
00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:37.280
They just carved it down. They
took the road a head and carved it,

361
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:40.760
recarved it so it's too small for
the body, and they carved it

362
00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:46.360
into a human head. People can
argue whether it's male or female. Most

363
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:50.639
people think of it as male.
Actually, the sphinx has always looked a

364
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:58.880
little female to me. Females or
androgynous is that the right word? But

365
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.760
what was it a originally? People
ask? We now know it was a

366
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:07.880
lioness, a female lion, and
the hell, how can you tell?

367
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:14.920
Can't tael directly from it? It
turns out that the Egyptologists And I want

368
00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:17.920
to point out that there is a
link to an article about this on my

369
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:23.480
website. My website is Robert Shock
scchoch dot com. I'm sure you'll have

370
00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:27.239
links to it that type of thing. Now, I only point that out

371
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.760
so people can learn and read more
about this, and I talk about in

372
00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:36.039
my book Forgotten Civilization also this second
edition. But how do we know that?

373
00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:40.320
Not from direct observation of the sphinx. From direct observation of the sphinx,

374
00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:45.400
I can tell you it's not the
original head. It's a dynastic head.

375
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:50.119
It's a recarving. Egyptologist said to
me many times, Oh, you're

376
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:52.039
crazy, this is a dynastic head. I said, sure, it's a

377
00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:57.360
dynastic head, but it's not the
original head. That's where you the Egyptologists

378
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:02.440
are wrong. It turns out the
Egyptologists were perplexed that for a thousand or

379
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:07.440
more years there was no mention of
the sphinx in any of the higher gifts

380
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:14.639
are the Egyptological legure, Well,
it wasn't a sphinx at the time.

381
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:19.199
It turns out it was a lioness. And we now have records and this

382
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:24.679
was first discovered by my colleague Manu
Safesday, and he and I and Robert

383
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:31.840
Bouvall wrote an article about it that
in the Fourth Dynasty and earlier dynasties going

384
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:39.039
back to we've document at least about
thirty one hundred BCE, there were what's

385
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:45.719
the word you would use, a
visiers and you know, high officials in

386
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:52.679
the court who carried inscriptions saying that
they were in charge of the archives under

387
00:36:52.760 --> 00:37:00.800
the lioness me Heat, who is
a guardian goddess, if you would.

388
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:06.840
That goes back to before dynastic times, before the unification of Egypt, and

389
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:15.719
they talked about a guardian goddess on
the Giza Plateau guarding an archive underneath her

390
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:20.559
basically and even having a key to
it. And there were, like I

391
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:23.960
said, people in the king's court, very high officials who were in charge

392
00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:30.840
of the scribes and the archives that
had to go with mehit this lioness.

393
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:37.239
And there's hieroglyphic inscriptions showing the lioness, which is what became the sphinx after

394
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:43.039
the head was recarved, even with
a stylized key coming out of her back

395
00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:46.719
showing that she's guardian archives. Now
it gets even more interesting because back in

396
00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:53.199
the early nineties with Thomas de Becki, the geophysicists who I worked with to

397
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:59.480
do the geophysics, we discovered a
chamber under the left paw of the Sphinx,

398
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:06.280
which I'm absolutely convinced is that archive
that me Heat the statue is guarding.

399
00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:09.599
So it really puts it all together, and then I hate to get

400
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:13.679
into Edgar Casey and that type of
thing. By my eyes, Well,

401
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:16.440
I want to talk a little more
about the stone that was used for repurposing,

402
00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:22.880
because the Sphinx temple was resurfaced with
the same stone. It looks like

403
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:28.760
that was the adopted the new head, the repurposed head. No no,

404
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:30.480
no, no, no, no
different stone work. Yeah, yeah,

405
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:34.719
let me clarify that, and let
me just finish what I was saying about

406
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:38.000
Agar Casey. It got me a
lot of academic trouble because we found hamber

407
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:44.000
under the left pole of the Sphinx, which the hieroglyphic inscriptions refer to,

408
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:51.320
and these inscriptions refer to it before
the Sphinx was even supposedly in existence according

409
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:58.239
to standard modern egyptologists. So they're
talking about the Sphinx or what became the

410
00:38:58.280 --> 00:39:04.559
Sphinx in ancient Egypt before twenty five
hundred BCE. That makes sense, which

411
00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:07.039
in the case, you know the
statue was there and that it had an

412
00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:12.559
archive. She was guardian. She
the mehte who became the Sphinx, was

413
00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:16.960
guardian archive. Edgar Casey, the
American psychic, happened to predict that there

414
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:22.840
was this ancient archive in or near
around the pause of the Sphinx, which

415
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:25.559
we found a chamber. And that
was a terrible embarrassment at the time for

416
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:31.280
me because I wasn't there to,
you know, validate some psychic. But

417
00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:36.679
he no, but he said,
was I mean, this is just real.

418
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:39.440
I've ever heard you speak, well, rarely speak on Edgar Casey,

419
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:43.599
but yeah, well I might well, I figured I might as well mention

420
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:51.440
it because some of your some of
your some of your listeners put that together.

421
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:54.280
So I run about. But I
actually did not. I want to

422
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:59.960
make it clear. I did not
know that Edgar Casey predicted a chamber.

423
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:04.880
Oh, I think when we found
it, I didn't have no clue whatsoever.

424
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:08.360
I really knew nothing about Edgar Casey
other that I knew the name.

425
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:13.400
I'm not totally you know, ill
informed. I knew that there was an

426
00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:17.559
American psychic named Edgar Casey, and
I didn't learn that he had predicted a

427
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:22.000
chamber, which he called the Hall
of Records of Atlantis. Uh. I

428
00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:25.960
didn't know that until one of his
sons, who's now deceased, called me

429
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:31.239
on the phone. Because Edgar Casey
died long before me. One of his

430
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:36.199
sons literally called me on the phone
at my office at Boston University and said,

431
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:39.719
I found the chamber that his father
had predicted. Oh wasn't as wonderful

432
00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:45.360
I had could. I had confirmed
his predictions. And all I could think

433
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:49.280
is, oh, my god,
this this is the last thing I need

434
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:53.760
is academic to be confirming some psychics
predictions. Let me stop you real quickly.

435
00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:58.639
Why were you not allowed to talk
about Wait that the repair blocks?

436
00:40:58.840 --> 00:41:04.239
Yeah, okay. So something that's
very important to me as a geologist is

437
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:08.199
when they carved this sphinx, the
body of the Sphinx, they had to

438
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:14.960
carve out huge blocks. We're talking
not just tens well, we're talking tens

439
00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:20.679
of tons, but in some cases
fifty tons or more limestone blocks to remove

440
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:23.960
it from what's noos as Sphinx enclosure. And they put them in front and

441
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:30.320
slightly to the south to build what's
known colloquially by the Egyptologists as the Sphinx

442
00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:35.400
Temple and the Valley Temple. I
say colloquially because we don't know what the

443
00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:40.599
ancient Egyptians were really calling it them. And so you've got these huge temples.

444
00:41:40.599 --> 00:41:45.360
They're very ruinous now made out of
these limestone blocks, and the Sphinx's

445
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:51.719
head itself looks sort of reddish,
but that's because it has more dolomite,

446
00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:55.679
and it's more dolomitic limestone that it's
a higher level. Also, the Sphinx's

447
00:41:55.719 --> 00:42:01.280
face was painted red at various times. Yes, yeah, it was painted,

448
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:05.039
you know, in the New Kingdom
times, et cetera. Apparently it

449
00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:08.800
was painted with all kinds of gaudy
colors, etc. I don't mean that

450
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:14.840
disrespectfully, but I think you know
this, but a lot of people don't

451
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:20.039
realize that in ancient times, whether
it's Greece or Egypt or Rome, etc.

452
00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:25.119
What we think of his beautiful white
statues and marbles and whatnot, they

453
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:30.360
were typically painted. They were painted
very brightly, very gaily. You see

454
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:37.719
this still in some of the Egyptian
temples where the paints have survived. But

455
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:40.639
going back to the Sphinx, so
the head is the original head. It's

456
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:46.159
not resurfaced in the sense of having
any repairs to it other than modern repairs.

457
00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:52.559
There's modern cement on it underneath the
headdress. That's all cemented in in

458
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:58.519
modern times. If you look at
photographs from the nineteenth century, you'll see

459
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:04.719
the distinction. But the temples,
the temples known as the Sphinx Temple and

460
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:09.679
Valley Temple where the limestone is contemporaneous
with the carving of the body of the

461
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:15.599
Sphinx. So by my analysis,
they go back to they have their origins

462
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:17.599
back at the end of the last
I say, circle ten thousand BCE.

463
00:43:19.719 --> 00:43:25.559
They were repaired, repurposed, refurbished
by the Egyptians, the dynastic Egyptians in

464
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:32.719
Old Kingdom times with Aswan granite.
So you can see this wonderful sort of

465
00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:39.320
rose colored red Aswan granite that is
repairing these temples. Now that those repairs

466
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:45.280
themselves are quite rudinous at this point, but they were repairing the temples.

467
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:50.800
And one of the strongest pieces of
evidence that convinced me personally going into this

468
00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:55.239
thirty plus years ago was when you
look at those temples, you can as

469
00:43:55.280 --> 00:44:00.760
a geologist, I could see that
the temple surfaces, the walls of the

470
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:06.400
temple had been weathered by rain.
They had been weathered back, and you

471
00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:10.239
saw the features on a smaller scale
on the weather temple walls, and then

472
00:44:10.360 --> 00:44:20.119
they were refurbished with this Aswan granite
Veneer and literally the Aswan Grand was beautifully

473
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:23.559
cut for the surface that shows,
but the backsides that were up against the

474
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:29.960
weathered limestone. In some cases they
took the trouble to cut the back to

475
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:34.480
fit the weathering. It would have
been so much easier to just skim down

476
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:39.280
cut off the softer limestone weathered surface, because you're talking walls that are meter

477
00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:44.599
or more thick, so there was
no structural reason to keep the weathered surface.

478
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:47.400
But what I think they were looking
at was for them a very sacred

479
00:44:47.639 --> 00:44:52.880
holy temple site, whatever you want
to call it, and they were trying

480
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:58.960
to keep as much of it as
possible even as they restored it and refurbished

481
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:04.599
it. America, the same type
of concept might be if you have a

482
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:08.800
home that belonged to Benjamin Franklin or
George Washington or whatnot. You don't just

483
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:15.039
you know, strip away all the
original woodwork, or just take a sand

484
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:21.119
blaster or you know whatever, you
know, sander and sand down all the

485
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:24.480
floors and walls to make them nice
and smooth. You keep as much original

486
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:28.440
as you can. And I think
that's what they were doing, even though

487
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:34.000
it took a lot more energy.
So to me, That's another very important

488
00:45:34.039 --> 00:45:39.000
aspect of the evidence. That we're
talking about a much much older structure when

489
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:45.119
it comes to the Sphinx enclosure,
the Sphinx itself, the temples that are

490
00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:53.639
associated with it, a much older
structure that was being reused repurposed by later

491
00:45:54.159 --> 00:46:00.719
Egyptians. And I say later Egyptians, because who were those earls people.

492
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:04.480
As far as I'm concerned, they
were Egyptians of some form there in Egypt.

493
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:09.679
Robert, let me ask you do
the Egyptology. Does the Egyptology community

494
00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:20.840
see this updated wall in the Sphinx
temple and comment about the earlier UH damage

495
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:25.760
and the age of the earlier surface. Some of them are now finally doing

496
00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:30.079
that. What I found is that
initially everyone wanted to deny. When I

497
00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:36.199
say everyone, the Egyptologists universally went
to deny everything I was saying. They

498
00:46:36.199 --> 00:46:39.599
tried to wave their hands and you
know, make the evidence go away.

499
00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:45.840
I mean, it was sort of
crazy what I've been through when I look

500
00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:49.760
at in hindsight. But now they're
starting to acknowledge it. For instance,

501
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:53.960
some Egyptologists are acknowledging that the head
is a recarving. Their acknowledging just what

502
00:46:54.039 --> 00:47:00.639
we were talking about that the U
the Veneers, I'll call it veneers,

503
00:47:00.679 --> 00:47:05.119
which you know, they're huge meter
or more thick blocks in some cases.

504
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:09.400
But the granite is a later addition. Some of them are trying to backpedal

505
00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:13.000
a little bit and say, well, okay, it's a later edition,

506
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:17.159
but it's New Kingdom versus Old Kingdom. Yet other Egyptologists have told me bluntly,

507
00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:22.000
where you can still see some inscriptions
on the so called Valley Temple,

508
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:27.400
the classic Old Kingdom inscriptions. I
mean, you know, it's it's starting

509
00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:36.599
to you know, it gets a
little bit calm hus should I say it's

510
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:43.480
not parsimonious. I'm using that in
a scientific sense. It's not parsimonious.

511
00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:46.760
The whole concept of Ockham's razor,
etc. Evidence says one thing, and

512
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:52.639
you're trying to keep your story straight
and keep the story you've always had by

513
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:57.440
trying to manipulate that evidence in saying, well, it looks Old Kingdom,

514
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:02.239
but it's really New Kingdom, because
that's what fits what voice believed. Yeah,

515
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:07.679
we're going to take a short commercial
break to allow our sponsors to identify

516
00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:12.679
themselves, and we will return shortly
with my guest today, doctor Robert Schock

517
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:21.320
talking about the reuse, the repurposing
of temples, artifacts, even the Great

518
00:48:21.360 --> 00:49:12.239
Sphinx in dynastic Egypt. We'll be
right back. My guess today is doctor

519
00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:16.440
Robert Shock, famous for his redating
of the Great Sphinx of the Giza Plateau

520
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:22.239
in Egypt, but he's also recognized
the fact that a lot of temples,

521
00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:29.880
a lot of statuary is also repurposed, and we're discussing this today in our

522
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:38.800
program. Do you think the issue
is that because of their education, they

523
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:45.760
cannot perceive of a civilization earlier than
the Old Kingdom? Oh? I think

524
00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:52.599
that's absolutely the case. I went
through classic academia, I mean college at

525
00:49:52.599 --> 00:50:00.400
George Washington University, graduate school,
culminating a PhD at Yale University. I

526
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:04.440
know what everyone was taught because I
was taught the same thing. I was

527
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:10.320
taught very very bluntly as an undergraduate
that the earliest civilizations go back to about

528
00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:15.639
three thousand to four thousand BCE period. End of story. Before that,

529
00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:22.920
people were hunters and gathers. They
were just rooting around and scrambling to even

530
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:28.360
stay alive. They didn't build monumental
structures, they didn't do any of this

531
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:32.719
crazy stuff, and no, I
was told I remember being told when I

532
00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:38.519
took archaeology classes, you only dig
down so far if you're interested in ancient

533
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:43.639
civilization, because if you're going further
than that, once you hit certain levels,

534
00:50:44.199 --> 00:50:45.800
you know, from the fourth millennium, forget it. There's nothing more

535
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:51.320
to see if you're interested in ancient
civilization. If you're starting to be interested

536
00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:54.960
in primitive you know, it's troubling. You can go talking about it's very

537
00:50:55.000 --> 00:51:00.280
troubling. It's troubling. And you
know, when I was first taught talking

538
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:01.760
about this, I want to get
this in now that you made me think

539
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:06.320
of it. When I was first
talking about this, I was asked in

540
00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:10.559
the early nineteen nineties, if you're
right that there was some true civilization and

541
00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:16.920
monumental structures and all this going back
to ten thousand BCE or even seven thousand

542
00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:22.719
BCE, where is there any other
evidence in the world of having that same

543
00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:29.079
level of sophistication. And honestly,
there was none in the nineteen early nineteen

544
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:31.880
nineties when I first got involved with
this. We now have sites like the

545
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:38.679
Beckley Tepe in southeastern Turkey that also
goes back to approximately ten thousand BCE and

546
00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:43.239
even earlier, back to then the
last Ice Age. And no it's not

547
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:51.280
the Great Sphinx, but I contend
it's equally sophisticated with megalithic structures beautifully carved

548
00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:58.280
shows the same should we say,
level of sophistication and civilization going back to

549
00:51:58.360 --> 00:52:04.760
that early period. So yeah,
we have to rethink what and how does

550
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:08.039
this do we have? Does somebody
have to find a book that says we

551
00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:12.480
go further back? Do we have
to find artifacts? I mean, what

552
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:15.239
do you predict is going to have
to be the change. It's not gonna

553
00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:17.800
be soon. It's not gonna happen
soon. No, no, we have

554
00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:24.480
to wait for the older people to
die off. And they say die off.

555
00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:29.599
I'm talking academically, of course,
you know basically have to die off.

556
00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:35.800
They just have. Okay, said
I interrupted you. I want you

557
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:39.599
to finish this thought. When you
were drilling at the front of the Sphinx

558
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:44.840
paw and you found I think you
also use ground penetrating radar. No,

559
00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:46.360
no, no, no, we
did not trail. We did not use

560
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:52.000
ground panetraying radar. We use seismic
techniques. So what we did, which

561
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:58.280
is actually penetrates further than ground penetrating
radar, et cetera. At least,

562
00:52:58.599 --> 00:53:00.920
No, there's I want to go
back and do more geophysics if I could

563
00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:06.000
ever get permission. But what we
did at the time, which I was

564
00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:08.360
referring to, so let me just
focus on that now, is we used

565
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:16.400
a sledgehammer on a steel plate,
which the UND waves yeah, energy into

566
00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:23.960
into the ground, and it penetrates
down, reflects off of different layers,

567
00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:30.039
reflects differently from cavities versus non cavities, et cetera, and then from that

568
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:34.920
data coming back, it's very similar
to GPR, but it's using a different

569
00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:40.800
you know, it's using sound essentially
energy waves instead of radar, and then

570
00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:45.880
we were able to model what's underneath
the surface. It's the same type of

571
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:53.159
techniques that's used, uh for instance, for geophysical prospecting for oil fields,

572
00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:57.400
that type of thing, except the
difference is, if you really want to

573
00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:00.679
penetrate far into the ground, you
don't use a sledgehammer and a steel plate.

574
00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:06.079
You set off explosion. Did you
choose that technique better, Robert,

575
00:54:06.519 --> 00:54:12.199
Did you choose that technique too?
Okay, that was the best and I

576
00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:16.000
actually was joking, But if the
joke had taken. I wo've done it.

577
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:21.039
There's guards all around us. This
is just illustrating the techniques. There's

578
00:54:21.079 --> 00:54:24.719
guards all around us when we're doing
it. We were using a hammer,

579
00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:30.199
a steel hammer, yeah, a
sledgehammer, a steel plate. What would

580
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:36.320
be another great energy source? Just
shoot bullets into the ground as an energy

581
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:39.599
source, you know you could,
it'd be like little explosions, because I

582
00:54:39.639 --> 00:54:43.599
was just mentioning when you do it
for you know, when you want to

583
00:54:43.639 --> 00:54:49.079
go really deep like oil prospecting,
you set off, you know, explosions

584
00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:52.119
on explosions on the surface as an
energy source. It's just we're using for

585
00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:57.639
your energy source. Okay, the
better the energy source that helps you refine

586
00:54:57.679 --> 00:55:00.000
the data, etcetera. Of course
they didn't want so, so the audious,

587
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:07.559
the obvious question after finding this room, why were you not allowed to

588
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:12.960
continue? And actually, uh,
because we've had a civil engineer on this

589
00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:17.039
program that is aware of this room
and of tunnel systems in the Giza Plateau

590
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:23.800
through ground penetrating radar. My question
to you is, Zahi Hawas was the

591
00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:29.400
head of the Supreme Antiquities Department at
that time. Why wouldn't they let you

592
00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:31.719
go in there and go let's see
what we find. Let's see what we

593
00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:36.480
do. Actually, he hey,
we're going so far back. He was

594
00:55:36.519 --> 00:55:39.159
not actually ahead of it right at
that time, he was on the plateau,

595
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:44.440
there were people above him, et
cetera. But that's another long story.

596
00:55:44.840 --> 00:55:52.800
But an answer to your question,
doing non invasive geophysical studies is very

597
00:55:52.840 --> 00:56:00.239
different than invasive geophysical, invasive,
any types of studies, So we not

598
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:04.800
have permission. I understood where they
were coming from, and I still understand

599
00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:08.360
that, not that I always agree
with them, but it's very different to

600
00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:15.599
do invasive studies. Even drilling for
a little you know, little pinholes type

601
00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:22.639
camera whatever they call it, you
that's invasive because if you've got a sealed

602
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:24.880
chamber, let's just say, we
don't know, but if you've got a

603
00:56:24.920 --> 00:56:29.760
totally sealed chamber and then you drill
into it, all of a sudden you've

604
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:36.239
unsealed it, you could let contamination
in that type of thing. So do

605
00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:39.199
I think something should be done?
Would I like to pursue things further?

606
00:56:39.400 --> 00:56:44.599
Yes? But do I understand why
they didn't just snap their fingers and say,

607
00:56:44.599 --> 00:56:49.480
oh, let's go drill into it. Understand that also, and what

608
00:56:49.559 --> 00:56:54.000
I'd like to do if anyone's listening
out there is I would like to gather

609
00:56:54.159 --> 00:56:58.960
the funds. I'm being one hundred
percent serious now. Gather the funds,

610
00:56:59.199 --> 00:57:02.679
gather the expertise, which is all
doable. It's really just money. And

611
00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:08.840
we're talking unfortunately a lot of money
for the equipment for making the arrangements.

612
00:57:08.960 --> 00:57:15.000
I know in Egypt, and I'm
a one hundred percent agreement with this.

613
00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:19.239
You want to bring in Egyptian folk. When I say Egyptian folk, I

614
00:57:19.239 --> 00:57:23.599
mean Egyptian professor is Egyptian graduate students
so they can learn techniques, et cetera.

615
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:29.159
You want to bring in expertise from
outside the country. You want to

616
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:32.159
bring in equipment. And what I
would love to do is to do more

617
00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:37.719
in non invasive, non invasive where
it doesn't damage anything, there's no risk

618
00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:45.480
of any damage. To further define
exactly where the chambers are, where the

619
00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:50.840
tunnel system is. There's actually a
collapse tunnel based on our analysis, running

620
00:57:50.960 --> 00:57:54.840
essentially the length of the body of
the Sphinx that goes then into the plateau

621
00:57:55.000 --> 00:58:00.000
to the west of the Sphinx towards
the second pyramid. But you can do

622
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:06.199
a lot more. I could do
a lot more non invasively first, and

623
00:58:06.280 --> 00:58:10.719
then one could have make some better
decisions as to what to do invasively.

624
00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:16.559
For instance, you could maybe drew
into it with a very small drill where

625
00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:22.800
you keep it how do I want
to say it, You always keep it

626
00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:28.800
so that nothing is escaping, nothing
is entering. It's kind of like an

627
00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:30.920
air lock. Yeah, like airlock. That's why I wanted to say,

628
00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:36.079
like an airlock, that type of
thing, and take all the proper precautions,

629
00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:38.159
just like you do when you're going
up into space. And you know,

630
00:58:38.280 --> 00:58:43.400
maybe we find that the whole thing's
already been contaminated and flooded with sewer

631
00:58:43.440 --> 00:58:47.039
water, which is a really distinct
possibility. But I wouldn't want to go

632
00:58:47.119 --> 00:58:52.119
in there and damage it if that
has not been the case. I rather

633
00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:57.039
air on the side of caution.
I think it needs to be done properly.

634
00:58:57.079 --> 00:59:05.840
But then there's a whole politics of
each and politics religious issues involved on

635
00:59:05.960 --> 00:59:08.199
all sides, et cetera. And
I mean that's a whole different thing again,

636
00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:16.079
both scientific, egyptological and should we
say geopolitical and religious issues involved.

637
00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:21.719
So it's a very complex situation.
And again I don't want to make light

638
00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:27.840
of any of it. I understand
that all the different sides of the spectrum

639
00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:32.480
have their own should we say,
concerns and agendas, et cetera. It's

640
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:38.519
it's a difficult situation. It's very
different than going out west. And I

641
00:59:38.559 --> 00:59:42.679
mean this seriously, just to use
this crude analogy, you go out west

642
00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:47.039
to someone's private land, and I'm
appealing I'm trained as a geologist, geophysicists,

643
00:59:47.400 --> 00:59:53.280
paleontologist. You go out to someone's
private land, which I've done before,

644
00:59:54.159 --> 00:59:59.599
you know, and you prospect for
fossils and you see a fossil sticking

645
00:59:59.639 --> 01:00:04.920
out of of out of the ground, and you realize that this is probably

646
01:00:05.239 --> 01:00:07.960
part of a tar Rhinosaurus rex or
something like that, and you just go

647
01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:14.760
to the landowners say do I have
permission to excavate this for you? And

648
01:00:14.800 --> 01:00:19.079
they say, yeah, that sounds
great, And it's not that type of

649
01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:22.000
situation. Yeah, it's a lot
more complex. I agree. I want

650
01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:30.599
to continue on with our theme of
repurposing, and do you feel comfortable stating

651
01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:37.480
not only the sphinx being repurposed,
but would you say, in your experience

652
01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:45.440
as a researcher of ancient antiquity that
the Egyptians regularly were repurposing items. Have

653
01:00:45.519 --> 01:00:49.840
you found other examples? Yes,
yes, I want to talk about this

654
01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:52.679
article in a minute that you and
Katie wrote, but I want to before

655
01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:58.800
we begin that, I want you
to give us another example, because I've

656
01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:01.840
been there half a dozen times and
I've seen it in temples, but we

657
01:01:01.880 --> 01:01:05.079
want to take it. I want
to see, I want to hear from

658
01:01:05.079 --> 01:01:09.079
you on other specific you find it. I think on a regular I hate

659
01:01:09.079 --> 01:01:13.280
to say it this way, regular
basis in Egypt, that all kinds of

660
01:01:13.320 --> 01:01:17.119
things have been repurposed. So I'll
just give you a couple of examples.

661
01:01:17.400 --> 01:01:24.320
At Sakkara, there's the step pyramid, the Zoso or Jojer pyramid of Sakara,

662
01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:31.400
that some people claim as the earliest
you know, stone structure whatever on

663
01:01:31.519 --> 01:01:36.199
Earth, which is, in my
opinion, not quite true, because the

664
01:01:36.280 --> 01:01:42.280
Sphinx Temple and the Valley Temple are
much older. But anyway, it's certainly

665
01:01:42.280 --> 01:01:46.000
a magnificent old structure. But where
I'm going with this is that underneath it

666
01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:52.599
there's this a whole series of tunnels
and whatnot and store rooms and every it

667
01:01:52.719 --> 01:02:00.079
sure looks like they were storing away
all kinds of earlier artifacts that go well

668
01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:06.880
into pre dynastic or uh, you
know, earlier than dynastic times, because

669
01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:14.199
there's even earlier than what the Egyptologists
called classically pre dynastic and beautifully made vases

670
01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:17.039
and balls and whatnot. And you
can see some of these in the museum,

671
01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:22.360
the various Grand Egyptian Museum, I
guess some of them will be in

672
01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:25.599
and the old I'll call it the
Old Cairo Museum. But my point is

673
01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:30.000
that in some of these cases,
some of the ones I've seen, you'll

674
01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:37.360
see on them inscriptions and hieroglyphs which
are so should we say crude relative to

675
01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:43.079
the finesse and delicacy of the actual
bulls. And I suspect that these are

676
01:02:43.159 --> 01:02:51.639
later inscriptions on earlier structures. Or
you go to at Scara again the Serapium

677
01:02:51.960 --> 01:02:57.719
where you have the incredible oh yeah
boxes which are so beautifully carved, and

678
01:02:57.800 --> 01:03:00.559
then you see some of the inscriptions
on the just a few, and it

679
01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:06.280
almost looks like they took a nail
or something and just scratched this inscription on.

680
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:13.000
It is totally incomparable with the design
and the finesse I'll use that term,

681
01:03:13.039 --> 01:03:17.039
and the beauty and artistry of the
actual structure. You go to the

682
01:03:17.480 --> 01:03:21.320
I don't know if they're still on
display now, but in the Old Cairo

683
01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:28.960
Museum, the pink building, the
Classic Egyptian Museum caught my attention certainly because

684
01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:32.599
I am into sphinxes, studying the
great sphinx, a series of sphinx is

685
01:03:32.639 --> 01:03:37.599
there so smaller sphinxes, but still
you know, eight ten feet six feet

686
01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:43.599
long or whatnot. And you'll see
in some cases where one pharaoh carved his

687
01:03:43.719 --> 01:03:46.800
cartusius and you can see the other
pharaoh carved his cartousian top of it or

688
01:03:46.880 --> 01:03:51.119
next to it, and another one
on top of that, etc. Etc.

689
01:03:52.519 --> 01:03:57.320
You go to Karnak, the temple, the Great Temple of Karnak,

690
01:03:57.400 --> 01:04:01.800
and you can see how Ramesses the
second it carved his cartouches into older structures.

691
01:04:01.840 --> 01:04:08.079
You can see that they're not stylistically
the same, they're more deeply sunk

692
01:04:08.159 --> 01:04:13.480
in because of course they had to
remove the old cartouche. So you see

693
01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:16.920
this all over the place. You
were mentioning before the work now that is

694
01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:23.960
being done where eighteenth dynasty, for
instance, coffins and masks and whatnot were

695
01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:27.519
being reused. In the twenty first
dynasty, of course, you had the

696
01:04:27.960 --> 01:04:32.280
so called intermediate period in between when
sort of things collapse. Sometimes people refer

697
01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:40.639
to that as the Bronze Age catastrophe
or collapse, very different than the catastrophe

698
01:04:40.639 --> 01:04:44.840
at the end of the last Ice
Age minor compared to the to the last

699
01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:48.679
Ice Age, but where you had
reuse and reuse again Teuton Common, I

700
01:04:48.679 --> 01:04:53.000
think that's pretty well understood now.
A lot of the stuff that was found

701
01:04:53.079 --> 01:04:59.079
in Teuton Common's tomb was actually being
repurposed and reused from other people. Some

702
01:04:59.119 --> 01:05:01.239
people argue, well, because he
died so early, they didn't have mine

703
01:05:01.360 --> 01:05:08.719
to to get out. Now,
what that's the thinking is that he died

704
01:05:09.039 --> 01:05:14.599
so suddenly they had to use another
relatives. But you know, I don't

705
01:05:14.599 --> 01:05:19.239
think this is totally you know,
surprising, should we say? But what

706
01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:24.880
is surprising, and this is where
Katie and I are coming from, is

707
01:05:24.920 --> 01:05:29.199
that Katie first observed this, and
this ties in with the article that you

708
01:05:29.960 --> 01:05:33.239
saw on my website, and that
people can give us the title again a

709
01:05:33.400 --> 01:05:42.239
hypothesis regarding the ancient and intentional bearing
of Egypt. Yes, so where we're

710
01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:47.639
coming from, where we're coming from
with intentional bearing bearer. I can't talk

711
01:05:47.679 --> 01:05:55.400
now burying or burial of Egypt.
Is that when you look at a Beckley

712
01:05:55.440 --> 01:06:00.239
tech band mentioned Qebecley Teche before,
which is very important to me because as

713
01:06:00.280 --> 01:06:06.119
it was another good piece of corroborating
evidence that we have very ancient, sophisticated

714
01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:14.079
society culture. I contend true civilization
ten thousand BCE to put it in round

715
01:06:14.199 --> 01:06:18.000
numbers. When you look at that
site and other sites associate with it,

716
01:06:18.239 --> 01:06:24.119
for instance Carhan Teppi. These are
all in southeastern Turkey near the Syrian border.

717
01:06:24.920 --> 01:06:30.079
Those people at that time built these
incredible sites, but there was a

718
01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:35.559
catastrophe at the end of the Last
I Sage ninety seven hundred BCE, and

719
01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:40.920
we can see from the stratigraphy,
from the geology, and I've looked at

720
01:06:40.960 --> 01:06:45.079
this very carefully, and other people
have looked at it carefully, although there's

721
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:48.639
some in the popular press who have
contended is not correct, or historians who

722
01:06:48.679 --> 01:06:53.960
contend it's not correct, But frankly, they're not geologists. They're not trained

723
01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:59.920
to look for these things. They're
not just covered over by wind and dust

724
01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:04.320
and debris like a lot of archaeological
a lot of archaeological sites are. They

725
01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:10.719
were covered over intentionally, they were
buried intentionally, I believe to preserve the

726
01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:15.599
sites at kebecley Tepe, that's the
classic place some of the pillars in the

727
01:07:15.800 --> 01:07:26.840
circle's rings. Qebecley Tepe has rings
of Megolithic beautifully carved stone monuments. What

728
01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:30.199
do we want pillars, We'll call
them pillars serve like Stonehenge, except gebecley

729
01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:35.679
Tepe. They're beautifully carved. Some
of them fell over during the tumultuous times

730
01:07:35.719 --> 01:07:40.440
at the end of the last Ice
Age, which another story again that was

731
01:07:40.480 --> 01:07:44.320
caused by a solar outburst from our
son. I talk about this all in

732
01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:49.440
Forgotten Civilization and have radicals on my
website. But there was a catastrophe at

733
01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:55.599
that time. These people were struggling
to survive. They were struggling, I

734
01:07:55.639 --> 01:08:00.039
believe, to preserve something of their
heritage, of their minds, and they

735
01:08:00.199 --> 01:08:05.880
ended up erecting pillars again really quick
and crudely, putting these rough sort of

736
01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:11.159
walls between them to hold them up
and to try and settle things down.

737
01:08:11.239 --> 01:08:16.039
And then they intentionally buried these sites
completely. And we find this in southeastern

738
01:08:16.159 --> 01:08:24.640
Turkey going through Egypt on our some
of our more recent trips to Egypt,

739
01:08:24.720 --> 01:08:30.079
Katie and myself Katie who has a
background very different than mine. I'm a

740
01:08:30.119 --> 01:08:33.760
scientist, I'm a geologist, you
physicist. She has an art and dance

741
01:08:33.880 --> 01:08:40.640
background and visual arts, et cetera. She noticed that so many sites in

742
01:08:40.760 --> 01:08:45.840
Egypt also look like they were intentionally
buried, but in Egypt mud brick,

743
01:08:45.920 --> 01:08:50.760
that they had mud brick. Let's
talk about that for a minute, because

744
01:08:50.800 --> 01:08:58.319
in the article Katie shows a very
early picture of Karnak. We're massive stones

745
01:08:59.039 --> 01:09:02.000
and yeah, and what was the
purpose of doing that? Well, I

746
01:09:02.039 --> 01:09:06.159
think what you're doing is you're protecting
the sites. You're trying to keep something

747
01:09:06.520 --> 01:09:13.880
to survive, especially if you have
calamitous times that are caused by natural events

748
01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:17.199
like a solar outburst. The ancient
Egyptians themselves, i want to point out,

749
01:09:17.439 --> 01:09:23.119
talked about zep Tepi, what they
called zep Tepe, which was a

750
01:09:23.159 --> 01:09:27.520
time long before their time. So
they're talking about this five thousand years ago,

751
01:09:28.239 --> 01:09:31.439
and they're talking about time thousands of
years earlier, which other people might

752
01:09:31.479 --> 01:09:36.359
translate as quote atlantis, that type
of thing. And supposedly, according to

753
01:09:36.399 --> 01:09:43.600
Plato, the Atlanti's legend comes from
Egypt, when there was an advanced civilization,

754
01:09:43.840 --> 01:09:45.399
there were temples, there was all
kinds. You know, everything you

755
01:09:45.479 --> 01:09:51.159
associate it with that, and that
it was destroyed by natural catastrophes. And

756
01:09:51.199 --> 01:09:58.199
that's what we have, I think
very strong evidence of Gebecley Tepe and other

757
01:09:58.279 --> 01:10:02.239
sites in Turkey, and I think
we're now finding evidence of the same type

758
01:10:02.239 --> 01:10:05.479
of thing in Egypt, which is
not to and I want to be clear,

759
01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:11.119
not to deny the deny. I
can't talk, not to deny the

760
01:10:11.279 --> 01:10:16.720
dynastic Egyptians of their their share of
things. But they were reusing things,

761
01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:24.720
they were inheriting from an earlier civilization. They were refurbishing, they were repurposing,

762
01:10:24.800 --> 01:10:31.520
they were reappropriating, very similar to
what we're talking about earlier in this

763
01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:35.600
conversation with the origins of the Sphinx. The origins of a lot of these

764
01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:42.720
things we are hypothesizing based on the
evidence, go back to a much earlier

765
01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:45.520
period. So you see this at
Karnak, you see this with the Sphinx,

766
01:10:45.800 --> 01:10:50.560
you see this in this syrion at
abby Does in particular. That's why

767
01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:55.880
the earliest sites for me, for
me, why the earliest sites where I

768
01:10:55.960 --> 01:11:00.720
was looking at this even before I
knew Katie was uh, you know,

769
01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:03.560
before Katie and I started talking about
this. You see this at Edfu or

770
01:11:04.039 --> 01:11:09.840
and Asna, you see it at
Komombo, you see it at Dendra uh

771
01:11:10.239 --> 01:11:15.640
half or yeah temp. So what
would be the awara? Is a really

772
01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:18.520
I want to talk about Hawara in
a minute, so hold that thought.

773
01:11:18.600 --> 01:11:26.600
But when we look at an ancient
temple like Karnak or Half or at Dendera

774
01:11:26.760 --> 01:11:36.159
that's had numerous cycles of civilization and
then uh and then damage through either geological

775
01:11:36.439 --> 01:11:43.439
or cosmic events, how do we
tell what is the earliest phase? Is

776
01:11:43.479 --> 01:11:47.720
there any way from a geological point
of view? Can we tested because in

777
01:11:47.760 --> 01:11:54.359
this uh? I mean, is
the ground of such a shape or or

778
01:11:56.680 --> 01:12:00.800
construction that we can tell that this
is the earliest Or is it just because

779
01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:03.680
of the megalithic builders? No,
not just because of the megalithic builders.

780
01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:08.239
You have to really look at all
the evidence together. A lot of it

781
01:12:08.319 --> 01:12:14.119
ties in with stratigraphy. Stratigraphy is
basically looking at layers of rock and debris,

782
01:12:14.199 --> 01:12:17.920
whether it's cultural debris or natural debris, et cetera, how it's built

783
01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:27.239
up ac crude. But maybe illustrate
example would be my own office where you

784
01:12:27.279 --> 01:12:30.119
know, I get papers and books
and letters and I put them a stack.

785
01:12:30.439 --> 01:12:33.600
Well, no, the most recent
stuff is on the top, the

786
01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:36.760
older stuff is on the bottom,
and you can start to sort that out

787
01:12:36.800 --> 01:12:42.399
and you can correlate that together.
And then of course we have various techniques

788
01:12:42.840 --> 01:12:48.560
for direct dating, whether it's different
radio isotopes, are luminescent stating that type

789
01:12:48.560 --> 01:12:56.199
of thing. We look at stylistic
differences. We can look at weathering.

790
01:12:56.319 --> 01:13:00.039
So in some cases, what you'll
get and we see this some sites where

791
01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:09.119
you'll get structures or or portions of
buildings which are deeply weathered in a road,

792
01:13:09.520 --> 01:13:13.760
yet right next to them seems like
a continuation of the building. But

793
01:13:13.800 --> 01:13:16.439
that's because they were refurbishing it.
They were reusing it again. Actually,

794
01:13:16.479 --> 01:13:20.000
we talked about something like that for
the Sphinx Temple and the Valley Temple.

795
01:13:20.560 --> 01:13:26.119
Ye. So there's lots of different
techniques that you can use to sore it

796
01:13:26.159 --> 01:13:30.640
out. But is it as simple
as saying all the big blocks are old

797
01:13:30.720 --> 01:13:35.640
and the younger blocks are smaller.
No, not necessarily that that's at my

798
01:13:35.760 --> 01:13:41.359
point. That's okay, that's that's
naive. But the other thing that you

799
01:13:41.439 --> 01:13:44.840
can tie in, and this gets
very important, and this gets to the

800
01:13:44.880 --> 01:13:49.600
plateau and specifically is that at the
end of the last ice Age, when

801
01:13:49.600 --> 01:13:56.159
we start going back to that early
period, there were these catastrophes. These

802
01:13:56.840 --> 01:14:02.039
were initiated, I'm convinced by solar
outburst. What's known as plasma. Plasma

803
01:14:02.119 --> 01:14:10.640
is electrically charged particles what's the sun
primarily hydrogen, but when you have it

804
01:14:10.680 --> 01:14:15.960
at high temperatures, it breaks up
into protons and electrons, both of which

805
01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:19.520
are electrically charged. Protons are positive, electrons are negative, so you got

806
01:14:19.520 --> 01:14:25.359
the protons electrons. The Sun way
it undergoes outbursts like what's know as a

807
01:14:25.439 --> 01:14:30.560
chronal mass ejection or solar particle event. Not to get into a bunch of

808
01:14:30.920 --> 01:14:34.720
solar physics and astrophysics here, but
stars do this on a periodic basis,

809
01:14:34.760 --> 01:14:39.800
including our Sun, which is a
star. And when you have that happen,

810
01:14:40.199 --> 01:14:44.960
you can have essentially what would look
like if you experienced it, and

811
01:14:45.039 --> 01:14:50.039
we've not experienced this in modern times, huge lightning bolts hitting in some cases

812
01:14:51.079 --> 01:14:56.039
down to ground level on the surface
of the Earth, so you get things

813
01:14:56.119 --> 01:15:02.119
like vitrification, which is essentially where
the raw has been raised on the surface

814
01:15:02.239 --> 01:15:08.880
because of this lightning. Think of
electrical particles hitting the rock it melts the

815
01:15:08.920 --> 01:15:13.000
surface of the rocks, in some
cases just the first top few millimeters,

816
01:15:13.119 --> 01:15:17.840
or they can penetrate much further depending
on the intensity. And it melts,

817
01:15:17.840 --> 01:15:23.359
it it recongeals, it forms a
natural glass. This is vitrication, and

818
01:15:23.439 --> 01:15:29.119
it doesn't look like pretty glass in
most cases. It looks like scoria or

819
01:15:29.880 --> 01:15:35.319
you know what you might get from
a blast furnace or from refining ores heating

820
01:15:35.439 --> 01:15:40.880
up to high temperature. But it's
actually pretty diagnostic, and so in some

821
01:15:40.960 --> 01:15:46.439
cases you can find rocks and structures
at a site that have been subject to

822
01:15:46.479 --> 01:15:49.319
this, which gives you a big
clue right away. It goes back to

823
01:15:49.359 --> 01:15:55.640
this very early period and we have
evidence of this right on the Giza Plateau

824
01:15:56.199 --> 01:16:01.760
where we have evidence of vitrication.
We have ever evidence of where those Lichtenberg

825
01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:10.880
patterns where when the electrical discharge or
plasma discharge hits the surface, it goes

826
01:16:10.920 --> 01:16:16.319
out dendritic branching pattern. It looks
like Frankly, this is something Katie first

827
01:16:16.399 --> 01:16:23.079
noticed. It looks like the pyramids
themselves are set on top of the centers

828
01:16:23.159 --> 01:16:29.159
or the foci of Lichtenberg patterns.
It may be that the Giza plateau itself

829
01:16:29.239 --> 01:16:32.720
is considered quote sacred or was considered
quote sacred, because the Sun, which

830
01:16:32.800 --> 01:16:40.720
was a deity of God effectively or
the God during different periods, hit the

831
01:16:40.760 --> 01:16:45.119
plateau, I mean literally touched down
there. So this is another thing that

832
01:16:45.159 --> 01:16:47.800
you want to look for. So
on the Giza plateau, I found areas

833
01:16:47.840 --> 01:16:56.079
where you have scoria, and you
have these various evidences of this early period,

834
01:16:56.680 --> 01:17:00.920
and then you have other structures built
over it or round it, etc.

835
01:17:00.239 --> 01:17:03.600
So again you can start getting back
to the dating issue that you were

836
01:17:03.640 --> 01:17:11.840
talking about. Interestingly too, the
ancient Egyptians, they talked about the Sphinx

837
01:17:11.840 --> 01:17:15.640
itself having been hit by lightning in
a thunderbolt. This is right at the

838
01:17:15.840 --> 01:17:21.479
inventory stella that. Yes, people
say it's a late period inscription, which

839
01:17:21.520 --> 01:17:26.439
it is, but it purports to
go back to the time of at least

840
01:17:26.479 --> 01:17:31.880
Cufu, builder of supposed builder of
the Great Pyramid, supposedly before the Sphinx

841
01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:39.319
was even thought about, and he
was looking at the thunderbolt that had hit

842
01:17:39.439 --> 01:17:44.319
the sphinx what they call the sphinx, or we call the Sphinx now.

843
01:17:44.399 --> 01:17:50.800
So the Egyptians themselves seem to have
acknowledged that this happened. We're going to

844
01:17:50.840 --> 01:17:57.239
take a brief commercial break to allow
our sponsors to identify themselves, and we

845
01:17:57.319 --> 01:18:02.960
will return shortly with my guest today, doctor Robert Schock, talking about repurposing

846
01:18:03.720 --> 01:18:48.199
ancient Egypt. Robert Shock is the
author of Forgotten Civilization, the Revised an

847
01:18:48.199 --> 01:18:55.359
expanded edition, and also an authority
on the Sphinx, which resides on the

848
01:18:55.680 --> 01:19:00.840
Giza Plateau in Egypt, and we
are talking about repurposing that only the Sphinx,

849
01:19:00.359 --> 01:19:05.199
but buildings, temples, artifacts,
and likely a lot of objects that

850
01:19:05.239 --> 01:19:14.760
we're not familiar with that we'll discover
in the near future. I've heard rumors

851
01:19:14.880 --> 01:19:19.600
that at like half of our temple, that main temple sits on an earlier

852
01:19:19.640 --> 01:19:27.159
temple. Absolutely, but they won't
do ground penetrating radar for some strange reason

853
01:19:27.239 --> 01:19:31.279
to identify that because it'll throw the
whole historical notion out the window. Yes,

854
01:19:31.319 --> 01:19:35.920
exactly. So this is part of
the problem, is throwing out historical

855
01:19:36.079 --> 01:19:43.039
notions when you have a vested interest, your whole career is built on something,

856
01:19:43.159 --> 01:19:48.399
or your whole facade, I should
say the time, more than just

857
01:19:48.479 --> 01:19:55.880
one person. When you've got a
whole department built on a certain historical narrative.

858
01:19:57.039 --> 01:20:01.399
It's pretty hard to throw that all
out with no matter compelling the evidence

859
01:20:01.479 --> 01:20:05.960
may be. And so that's not
a scientific issue in my opinion. That's

860
01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:12.279
more political, social, cultural.
But it's so damning because Robert I was

861
01:20:12.359 --> 01:20:15.600
just there and a few months ago
we were at the Serrapiam and I spoke

862
01:20:15.640 --> 01:20:21.199
to the local archaeologists and I said, why haven't you guys used lightdar Well

863
01:20:21.359 --> 01:20:26.880
his answer was, what we don't
want to use that? That was it.

864
01:20:27.399 --> 01:20:30.920
Yeah, because they might find something
that they don't want to acknowledge that

865
01:20:31.359 --> 01:20:36.840
will upset their local apple cart or
international apple cart, as it might be.

866
01:20:38.399 --> 01:20:42.960
I mean, no, no,
there's a lot of political social I

867
01:20:43.039 --> 01:20:47.159
mean think about if you've built your
career saying one thing or whatnot, do

868
01:20:47.199 --> 01:20:51.079
you want to have to take it
all back at the end or I would

869
01:20:51.159 --> 01:20:57.439
think they would want to welcome new
discoveries that maybe change the narrative. I

870
01:20:58.000 --> 01:21:02.920
was very naive back in my younger
days. I thought when I first talked

871
01:21:02.920 --> 01:21:10.600
about the sphinxes origins going back thousands
of years earlier, I really and I

872
01:21:10.640 --> 01:21:14.800
mean this sincerely, and I evely
thought that the egypt told you to say,

873
01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:17.760
oh, this is wonderful. You're
opening up so much more history for

874
01:21:17.920 --> 01:21:23.119
us, because I never was denying
to this day, I'm not denying the

875
01:21:23.199 --> 01:21:28.680
dynastic Egyptians and everything they accomplish,
more or less. I'm just saying they

876
01:21:28.760 --> 01:21:35.199
built on incredible heritage. You know
another cliche they they built on I don't

877
01:21:35.239 --> 01:21:39.479
know, stood on the shoulders of
giants or whatever. I think it was

878
01:21:39.720 --> 01:21:45.119
came from Newton. But you know, I always thought would open up a

879
01:21:45.279 --> 01:21:50.399
new avenues of research, and I
still content contend contend that that. I

880
01:21:50.439 --> 01:21:58.039
still contend that is the case.
It's not destroying anything. It's not stealing

881
01:21:58.159 --> 01:22:05.680
Egypt from the Egyptians I've been accused
of by certain people. No, it's

882
01:22:05.840 --> 01:22:11.800
just adding to the glory of Egypt
in this case, or the glory of

883
01:22:11.880 --> 01:22:16.359
humanity, or how far back humanity. Are you suggesting, Robert that your

884
01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:24.840
revelations will call them, are not
revelations in that they're channeled or I just

885
01:22:24.880 --> 01:22:29.680
came out. No, No,
there's scientific evidence. Yeah, scientific scientific

886
01:22:30.159 --> 01:22:38.039
research is not welcomed, not always, not always. I mean, you

887
01:22:38.079 --> 01:22:43.960
know, some people think I'm going
to hell for what. Oh boy,

888
01:22:44.359 --> 01:22:47.000
let's conclude our talk here. I
want to finish up with a place that

889
01:22:47.079 --> 01:22:56.760
you actually include in this article,
Hawara, and this is the place that

890
01:22:56.920 --> 01:23:02.399
Herodotus claim was had an underground yeah
labyrinth. Yeah, talk a little bit

891
01:23:02.439 --> 01:23:12.239
about what you discovered. And also
this phenomenon known as the mud brick additions.

892
01:23:13.920 --> 01:23:16.600
Yeah, Well, when you look
at Howara, it's really interesting.

893
01:23:16.680 --> 01:23:24.399
You go there and there's a so
called mud brick pyramid of Hoara, which

894
01:23:24.439 --> 01:23:28.119
you know, I've had the privilege
of studying and climbing to the top of

895
01:23:28.239 --> 01:23:30.600
which you know, I was with
a Egyptologist who allowed me to do that.

896
01:23:30.840 --> 01:23:34.520
You know. Normal, Wow,
normally they don't do that. One

897
01:23:34.560 --> 01:23:39.640
doesn't do that because actually it's a
fairly unstable structure. But what you have

898
01:23:39.880 --> 01:23:45.239
are all kinds of megalithic ruins there. It seems that it's really mud brick

899
01:23:45.439 --> 01:23:50.600
covering over a much older structure I
suspect. And then you have outside of

900
01:23:50.640 --> 01:23:56.600
the pyramid itself what now looks like
it's a huge expanse, a huge ground.

901
01:23:56.640 --> 01:23:59.600
Just tried to describe it. It
looks like it's served like an egg

902
01:23:59.680 --> 01:24:04.159
cart because there's all these depressions and
whatnot. And I haven't done it,

903
01:24:04.199 --> 01:24:09.399
but others have done. Some GPR
there ground pantran radar, and yeah,

904
01:24:09.399 --> 01:24:14.119
there's structures underneath. And this matches
as you mentioned what the Greeks and the

905
01:24:14.239 --> 01:24:20.039
Romans talked about, that there's a
huge labyrinth there potentially multi stories that contained

906
01:24:20.119 --> 01:24:27.039
all kinds of information from extremely ancient
times. I suspect this goes back to

907
01:24:27.039 --> 01:24:31.560
what the ancient Egyptians called Zeptepe again
to use the A word, what other

908
01:24:31.600 --> 01:24:36.000
people referred to as Atlantis, what
I, in a technical sense, referred

909
01:24:36.000 --> 01:24:43.720
to as the Urian RN. That
is an earlier cycle of civilization, one

910
01:24:43.760 --> 01:24:47.880
that existed before our cycle of civilization, which I date our cycle of civilization

911
01:24:48.520 --> 01:24:53.840
to the last five thousand or so
years. But there was this earlier cycle

912
01:24:53.880 --> 01:24:59.279
of civilization that ended at the end
of the Last Ice Age ninety seven hundred

913
01:24:59.399 --> 01:25:04.800
BC approximately, and the ancient Egyptians, ancient people actually around the world,

914
01:25:04.840 --> 01:25:11.119
when you start looking at traditions,
talk about these earlier cycles, whether you're

915
01:25:11.119 --> 01:25:15.840
talking about the Yuga cycle or the
Maya, talking about you know, early

916
01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:20.239
what they called suns or cycles of
civilization, each of which ended in catastrophe.

917
01:25:20.600 --> 01:25:25.720
And this has always been dismissed classically
by academics. As you know,

918
01:25:25.760 --> 01:25:30.479
a bunch of nonsense, just mythology
that doesn't have any real basis. But

919
01:25:30.600 --> 01:25:34.680
I think that we may have the
mother load in Egypt actually of evidence,

920
01:25:34.720 --> 01:25:39.439
if we would just explore it and
acknowledge it for what it is. That

921
01:25:39.640 --> 01:25:45.720
yes, there was certainly an earlier
cycle of civilization which were separated from by

922
01:25:46.760 --> 01:25:51.600
what Katie and I call the solar
induced dark Age. We were short solar

923
01:25:51.600 --> 01:25:57.199
induced dark Age because you had this
catastrophe at the end of the last Ice

924
01:25:57.279 --> 01:26:03.199
Age wiped out civilization or civilations at
that time. We went into basically a

925
01:26:03.279 --> 01:26:08.680
dark age. Humanity went into a
dark age for about six thousand years before

926
01:26:08.800 --> 01:26:15.840
civilization re arose about five maybe six
at the most thousand years ago. And

927
01:26:15.920 --> 01:26:19.960
getting back to the sociology and politics, et cetera of it, lots of

928
01:26:20.119 --> 01:26:25.239
people around the world, and I've
found this even with should we say just

929
01:26:25.319 --> 01:26:29.399
popular I don't know what I want
to call non academics who I talked to.

930
01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:33.560
They don't like the concept that we
aren't the best and greatest thing that's

931
01:26:33.640 --> 01:26:39.960
ever been on Earth. They don't
like the concept. They just instinctually react

932
01:26:40.000 --> 01:26:44.439
against it. That, oh,
people twelve thousand years ago could have been

933
01:26:44.520 --> 01:26:50.640
quite sophisticated. Also, they are
serving doctrinated and what we'll call one way

934
01:26:51.800 --> 01:26:57.399
progression that if it's older, it's
not as good as us. If it's

935
01:26:57.439 --> 01:27:00.560
even older, it's even worse.
You know, it's even more primitive,

936
01:27:00.640 --> 01:27:04.199
et cetera, et cetera, et
cetera. John Anthony West who got me

937
01:27:04.279 --> 01:27:10.279
started all this, and of course
he's now passed away, the late John

938
01:27:10.319 --> 01:27:15.520
Anthony West, he used to call
the Church of Progress. Yeah, I

939
01:27:15.560 --> 01:27:19.920
mean he picked his terms carefully there, because he basically was saying, it's

940
01:27:19.960 --> 01:27:24.600
like a religion. It is a
religion for some people, or our doctrine.

941
01:27:24.920 --> 01:27:30.359
That's not to be questioned, that
humanity has only progressed from primitive,

942
01:27:30.960 --> 01:27:38.359
ugly, brutish old them to wonderful, sophisticated, technological us, and that

943
01:27:38.439 --> 01:27:44.319
there's nothing the way around it that
we haven't ever gone back, we haven't

944
01:27:44.399 --> 01:27:48.760
ever devolved. It's always been a
one way to use the term evolution for

945
01:27:48.920 --> 01:27:54.359
better and better and bigger and bigger
and more and more technology or whatever.

946
01:27:54.640 --> 01:27:59.159
And honestly, yeah, I was
in doctrinated that way, but when you

947
01:27:59.199 --> 01:28:01.640
look at the real and so I
don't think that holds up. It's not

948
01:28:01.680 --> 01:28:10.920
to say that the ancient people twelve
thousand years ago had iPhones and communication satellites

949
01:28:10.960 --> 01:28:14.840
and whatnot. Maybe they were too
smart to put their eggs in such a

950
01:28:14.840 --> 01:28:19.159
basket, you know, But that
doesn't mean there were a bunch of primitives

951
01:28:19.199 --> 01:28:26.199
either, And they were brought down
by a catastrophe and the sun, the

952
01:28:26.239 --> 01:28:31.159
sun of solar outbursts, and the
scary thing is and I'm not I hate

953
01:28:32.039 --> 01:28:36.199
to have to say what I'm doing, gloom, dooming. I don't like

954
01:28:36.319 --> 01:28:44.159
dooming, gloom. But realistically,
we have a society now that is we'll

955
01:28:44.159 --> 01:28:50.199
call it technologically sophisticated, based on
the technology that's electricity and electronics, which

956
01:28:50.239 --> 01:28:59.039
is incredibly vulnerable, more vulnerable,
I think more. You know, we're

957
01:28:59.079 --> 01:29:05.199
in worst shape in terms of a
major catastrophe than people were twelve years ago

958
01:29:05.239 --> 01:29:11.079
and it decimated them. I mean, we're we're really every day we're making

959
01:29:11.159 --> 01:29:15.279
our our society more and more fragile, if you would, when it comes

960
01:29:15.319 --> 01:29:20.359
to some kind of natural catastrophe,
especially from the sun. What look at

961
01:29:20.359 --> 01:29:28.520
what happens when you know, one
one ship gets stuck in harbor and all

962
01:29:28.560 --> 01:29:34.239
the supply chains get held up,
and uh, you know, we have

963
01:29:34.279 --> 01:29:39.199
a little solar outburst, and I
say a little astrophysically, it could knock

964
01:29:39.239 --> 01:29:45.760
out transformers and communication satellites and physical
systems, and we've been in really bad

965
01:29:45.840 --> 01:29:49.760
shape. And uh, you know
we see that COVID. You know,

966
01:29:49.800 --> 01:29:54.439
of course we all went through COVID, but look at when bylines went down

967
01:29:54.479 --> 01:30:01.399
through COVID. We have just put
ourselves in this situation as a collective civilization

968
01:30:01.640 --> 01:30:11.720
globally where you know, the consequences
will be catastrophic even from a fairly minor

969
01:30:12.399 --> 01:30:17.439
solar outburst or other issue. What
what is the effect on human biology?

970
01:30:17.800 --> 01:30:21.359
Does it? Did it wipe out
the is your belief that it wiped out

971
01:30:21.920 --> 01:30:28.279
the humanity on the planet. Oh, during a major solar outburst, for

972
01:30:28.319 --> 01:30:33.520
instance, what happens is because you
have very high radiation levels on the surface

973
01:30:33.600 --> 01:30:39.720
of Earth, you wipe probably wipe
out the ozone layer, et cetera.

974
01:30:40.239 --> 01:30:45.880
So the it's it's lethal enough.
And this is based on good calculations by

975
01:30:45.920 --> 01:30:51.279
physicists. I've known, uh that
you could have a situation where radiation levels

976
01:30:51.279 --> 01:30:56.880
were high enough on the surface of
the Earth from the isotopes that form in

977
01:30:56.880 --> 01:31:00.479
the atmosphere from wipe out the ozone
layer. And uv et cetera, et

978
01:31:00.520 --> 01:31:05.199
cetera, that large mammals could die
within a few days to a week.

979
01:31:05.640 --> 01:31:11.680
We humans are large mammals, and
so there's a good evidence I believe that.

980
01:31:11.800 --> 01:31:15.039
Yeah, populations died out in various
places. How do you escape this?

981
01:31:15.199 --> 01:31:18.960
It's very easy if you have access
to caves. You can go caves

982
01:31:19.159 --> 01:31:24.119
underground, and what we see at
the end of the last Ice Age,

983
01:31:24.119 --> 01:31:30.159
in fact, are people going underground
into caves, carving areas into rock and

984
01:31:30.199 --> 01:31:36.479
whatnot. Also megalithic structures basically rock
above you. So if you're in a

985
01:31:36.479 --> 01:31:42.359
cave or under a huge pyramid type
structure, I'm not saying they necessarily the

986
01:31:42.399 --> 01:31:47.359
pyramids themselves that will protect you from
the worst of the effects. And it

987
01:31:47.399 --> 01:31:49.479
comes and goes, so it's not
like you have to be in there for

988
01:31:49.600 --> 01:31:53.039
years. You can be in there
and you come out, you go back

989
01:31:53.079 --> 01:31:57.720
in et cetera, et cetera.
You have things like the Cappadocia. The

990
01:31:57.800 --> 01:32:02.600
underground cities of Cappadocia are Padokia,
however you like to pronounce it in Anatolia.

991
01:32:03.079 --> 01:32:10.880
And it's interesting that those seemed to
go back. Those seem to go

992
01:32:10.960 --> 01:32:15.359
back in my opinion to this very
early period. Were they expanded, were

993
01:32:15.399 --> 01:32:21.680
they reused, were they repurposed for
other uses later once they exist? It

994
01:32:23.000 --> 01:32:27.840
sure, but I think their origins
go back to that early period. It's

995
01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:32.039
even been suggested by Katie and myself
and now other people too that things like

996
01:32:32.079 --> 01:32:38.119
the Valley of the Kings and Queens
in their tunnel systems, maybe those were

997
01:32:38.159 --> 01:32:42.479
not originally just for tombs. Maybe
they were at all, They were used

998
01:32:42.479 --> 01:32:47.439
for other purposes and then they were
repurposed as tombs because they would be perfect

999
01:32:47.560 --> 01:32:53.760
for surviving major solar events. I
do want to point out some people talk

1000
01:32:53.800 --> 01:32:57.399
about comments at the end of the
last Ice Age. That's a totally different

1001
01:32:57.520 --> 01:33:01.880
subject, but the evidence for it
is not there. All the evidence that's

1002
01:33:01.920 --> 01:33:09.479
been used to support comets actually fits
a solar outburst much morecisely. And if

1003
01:33:09.520 --> 01:33:15.439
you're talking some of these caves and
structures where people survived, they're not going

1004
01:33:15.439 --> 01:33:21.560
to protect you from commentary bombardment.
They will protect you from radiation on the

1005
01:33:21.680 --> 01:33:27.039
surface. One last thing I just
want to mention about that there have been

1006
01:33:27.119 --> 01:33:34.239
studies linguistic studies of the origins of
the Indo European languages going back to the

1007
01:33:34.359 --> 01:33:39.880
end of the last Ice Age,
and turns out that these studies independent of

1008
01:33:39.920 --> 01:33:43.399
anything I've done. These were published
in Science, the journal Science, where

1009
01:33:43.439 --> 01:33:47.880
the top journals in the world,
trace the origins of the Indo European languages

1010
01:33:48.359 --> 01:33:55.239
back to a pocket in Anatolia,
the same area that apparently a pocket of

1011
01:33:55.279 --> 01:33:59.840
people survived there at the end of
the last Ice Age and then they spread

1012
01:33:59.880 --> 01:34:04.039
out again once you know, they
was over. So I think that's incredibly

1013
01:34:04.880 --> 01:34:12.960
solid, collaborating evidence from a totally
different field of study that this is what

1014
01:34:13.000 --> 01:34:16.920
was happening. So I think that
one of the lessons we really need to

1015
01:34:17.000 --> 01:34:25.680
take to heart is that now there's
so much in the ancient world. When

1016
01:34:25.720 --> 01:34:29.279
we talk about the ancient world as
the last five thousand years, you know,

1017
01:34:29.680 --> 01:34:34.760
let's say two thousand years to five
thousand years ago for classical antiquity,

1018
01:34:34.800 --> 01:34:40.760
if I could use that term,
so much at that time actually was being

1019
01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:45.039
reused and purposed from a much earlier
period. They were learning from, they

1020
01:34:45.039 --> 01:34:51.640
were physically reusing from etc earlier period. And it can be complex in some

1021
01:34:51.720 --> 01:34:58.920
cases to sort out, oh,
this structure looks Toolemaic, or this structure

1022
01:34:58.960 --> 01:35:01.279
looks New Kingdom. Sure, it
does because they were using it at that

1023
01:35:01.720 --> 01:35:05.720
time, but that doesn't mean that's
the origins of it. Yeah. And

1024
01:35:05.760 --> 01:35:12.720
this is the real problem I'm having
is that they, the academics that are

1025
01:35:12.760 --> 01:35:19.000
studying these historical uh, these historical
structures, are hard pressed to go beyond

1026
01:35:19.039 --> 01:35:23.800
a certain date. Yeah, exactly, exactly, even though they should know

1027
01:35:23.960 --> 01:35:28.880
better. Go to Karnak and you've
got Alexander the Great leaving his mark there

1028
01:35:28.880 --> 01:35:32.880
and no one thinks that he built
the whole thing. Yeah, but they

1029
01:35:32.880 --> 01:35:36.600
don't want to go back beyond a
certain period. I still think it's gonna

1030
01:35:36.600 --> 01:35:42.479
have to be a major discovery of
some kind, something that's like so astounding

1031
01:35:42.800 --> 01:35:48.439
that they can't help help me get
into. Help me get into the Yeah,

1032
01:35:48.520 --> 01:35:53.439
help me get into the No,
I'm serious, I'm serious. As

1033
01:35:53.520 --> 01:35:56.159
they said, well do it,
go fund me, Robert, Well,

1034
01:35:56.239 --> 01:35:58.680
no, you can't do that.
You can't do that. That's not going

1035
01:35:58.680 --> 01:36:01.039
to go over with a gypshow.
They don't want to be told what to

1036
01:36:01.119 --> 01:36:05.199
do just because of it has to
be financed through university. It has to

1037
01:36:05.199 --> 01:36:10.239
be financed through university. It has
to go through all the proper channels.

1038
01:36:10.279 --> 01:36:14.640
I have all those contacts et cetera. I just need someone to give me

1039
01:36:14.720 --> 01:36:16.960
ten million dollars. When I say
me, not me, No, I'm

1040
01:36:17.039 --> 01:36:20.319
being serious now, I'm not saying
me. I should not have said it

1041
01:36:20.359 --> 01:36:27.840
that way. To donate to Boston
University ten million dollars for this project,

1042
01:36:27.920 --> 01:36:30.680
and we could probably make progress because
you know, it would be not me,

1043
01:36:30.880 --> 01:36:34.319
it would be a university, which
is what's required, et cetera,

1044
01:36:34.399 --> 01:36:40.640
et cetera. I'm director of the
Institute for the Study of the Origins of

1045
01:36:40.680 --> 01:36:45.079
Civilization at Boston University. But we
are like many places. You know,

1046
01:36:45.119 --> 01:36:49.079
I need the funding. Put it
together. I'll be happy to support it.

1047
01:36:49.359 --> 01:36:54.560
You got to put all the groundworkkay. If you know some big donors

1048
01:36:54.640 --> 01:36:57.600
that type of yeah, yeah,
yeah, no, I'm serious, or

1049
01:36:57.640 --> 01:37:00.479
maybe someone listening to this. If
they walk contact you or contact me.

1050
01:37:00.520 --> 01:37:04.039
If they contact you, please pass
them on to me or contact me directly

1051
01:37:04.840 --> 01:37:09.880
through my website. That would be
greater through Boston University. I want to

1052
01:37:09.920 --> 01:37:14.920
mention just this side note because I
just stopped it. Cappadocia, for instance,

1053
01:37:15.159 --> 01:37:17.920
we were talking about the underground seas
of Cappadocia and some people will go

1054
01:37:18.039 --> 01:37:24.520
there and they're to use the colloquial
term. They're blown away by the churches

1055
01:37:24.560 --> 01:37:31.520
there, because there's beautiful Byzantine churches. They're beautifully decorated and whatnot. Okay,

1056
01:37:31.520 --> 01:37:35.720
so they're mere thousand years old or
whatever. Yeah, they're beautiful and

1057
01:37:35.760 --> 01:37:41.159
I love them. But when you
look at them, if you actually look

1058
01:37:41.199 --> 01:37:44.000
with a critical eye, and I've
shown this to people, you can see

1059
01:37:44.000 --> 01:37:47.600
where they were being reused older structures, and you can see the layers of

1060
01:37:47.640 --> 01:37:50.600
paint, you know, several layers
deep, and you can see where they

1061
01:37:50.880 --> 01:37:55.960
took an older structure and they were
carving and recarving re So again, you

1062
01:37:56.000 --> 01:37:59.920
know, people reuse things, and
you do that this day. Yeah,

1063
01:38:00.319 --> 01:38:04.720
amazing. Robert, always a pleasure, always in fraudt the program a plug.

1064
01:38:05.119 --> 01:38:08.239
Okay, we're gonna go through it. The first thing I want to

1065
01:38:08.279 --> 01:38:13.880
mention is that you're a keynote speaker
at Sea Pack I October eighteenth to the

1066
01:38:13.960 --> 01:38:18.600
nineteenth of this year. We're a
sponsor. Robert's talk is available on stream

1067
01:38:18.680 --> 01:38:24.279
media. We'll talk more about that
later. And I also wanted to mention,

1068
01:38:24.399 --> 01:38:27.680
but maybe you have it already there, could I mention that I also

1069
01:38:27.760 --> 01:38:32.399
I will also be speaking at the
Ancient Civilizations Conference, which is a Guya

1070
01:38:32.479 --> 01:38:40.119
production at Bold of Colorado. That
is the seventeenth and eighteenth of August.

1071
01:38:40.159 --> 01:38:45.960
So seventeenth of eighteenth, eighteenth August
Gaya, Boulder, Colorado. This is

1072
01:38:46.039 --> 01:38:51.720
all on my website under appearances seventeenth
and eighteenth of August Ancient Civilized I'm looking

1073
01:38:51.720 --> 01:38:58.520
at my notes Ancient Civilizations Conference in
Boulder, Colorado. Than Conference for Precession

1074
01:38:58.720 --> 01:39:04.840
Ancient Knowledge, which a seapack which
you're sponsoring October eighteenth and nineteenth. That's

1075
01:39:04.840 --> 01:39:11.680
the eighteenth and nineteenth of October in
Nevada City, California. I'm excy about

1076
01:39:11.680 --> 01:39:15.119
both of them, and I do
want to say that, you know,

1077
01:39:15.159 --> 01:39:19.680
people can come to both because I
always tailor different talks and you know things.

1078
01:39:21.039 --> 01:39:26.720
We also promote the fact that that
seapack has very good streaming media.

1079
01:39:27.119 --> 01:39:30.359
They can see you live for if
they can't make it out there. Okay,

1080
01:39:30.960 --> 01:39:34.520
let's see this new book that you
and Katie have written. Give us

1081
01:39:34.520 --> 01:39:41.760
the title. Okay, so it
was the the theme. Okay, can

1082
01:39:41.800 --> 01:39:45.079
you say that you can see it? Yeah, it's Audriana and the Ancient

1083
01:39:45.159 --> 01:39:50.640
Mysteries the Great Sphinx. It's the
first in a series of books aimed at

1084
01:39:50.960 --> 01:39:55.720
young children, young people. I
want to put that white children. But

1085
01:39:55.800 --> 01:40:00.880
it's not a baby book, as
Katie likes to say. It's written my

1086
01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:04.840
wife Catherine, You Lyssie, Katie. It's illustrate by our friend Lisa M.

1087
01:40:04.880 --> 01:40:10.520
Perkins, who is an artist and
a teacher. She teaches in California,

1088
01:40:10.800 --> 01:40:15.119
teaches art in California in the public
schools, so she knows what she's

1089
01:40:15.119 --> 01:40:19.880
doing with that. And I'm the
scientific consultant. And if you open it,

1090
01:40:19.880 --> 01:40:23.840
I think it's this is just random
perce. Well, read the title.

1091
01:40:23.880 --> 01:40:30.600
What's the title of the book.
The title is Audriana and the Ancient

1092
01:40:30.760 --> 01:40:36.279
Mysteries the Great Sphinx. So this
covers much of actually what we were talking

1093
01:40:36.319 --> 01:40:42.239
about when it comes to the Sphinx, but put in a way to introduce

1094
01:40:42.279 --> 01:40:46.000
it to the young reader. Actually
I'm not mentioned in the book by name,

1095
01:40:46.239 --> 01:40:50.840
except when you know about the creators
that type of thing. Because what

1096
01:40:50.880 --> 01:40:56.520
we want is young children, which
I think is good educationally to look at

1097
01:40:56.520 --> 01:41:00.239
things, but to question. So
Audrianna questions, why does the sphinx look

1098
01:41:00.319 --> 01:41:03.439
this way if it's supposed to be
only so old, et cetera, et

1099
01:41:03.479 --> 01:41:08.560
cetera. She learns all kinds of
things about. She learnses about how the

1100
01:41:08.600 --> 01:41:14.039
sphinx is aligned to the equinoxies,
she learns about water versus wind weathering.

1101
01:41:14.880 --> 01:41:20.000
She ends up traveling to Egypt with
her grandfather to explore the mysteries for themselves.

1102
01:41:23.000 --> 01:41:25.680
And it's not I don't know if
you can see some of that there.

1103
01:41:25.760 --> 01:41:29.560
This is all text here, So
it's not like one of these baby

1104
01:41:29.560 --> 01:41:35.520
books that's just a few words,
really meant to educate one person we know

1105
01:41:36.279 --> 01:41:42.720
said, you know, it could
be used in AP classes for young readers,

1106
01:41:42.840 --> 01:41:47.199
that type of thing, advanced classes, events classes, And we've had

1107
01:41:47.239 --> 01:41:51.800
it. It's been it came out
last month, and we've gotten really good

1108
01:41:51.840 --> 01:41:57.920
comments from people about it. In
some cases they've really enjoyed reading it,

1109
01:41:58.279 --> 01:42:02.239
the adults reading it for themselves,
but also with their children, with the

1110
01:42:02.319 --> 01:42:06.079
children in their lives, whether it's
their grandchildren or their children, et cetera,

1111
01:42:06.399 --> 01:42:10.640
and be able to discuss these issues. To bring it up. And

1112
01:42:10.720 --> 01:42:13.960
I think this is a theme that
ties in with things that you and I

1113
01:42:14.000 --> 01:42:17.119
have been talking about, Well,
how do you get this message across?

1114
01:42:17.319 --> 01:42:21.520
How do you convince the public?
And in many ways, yeah, in

1115
01:42:21.560 --> 01:42:26.359
science you have to convince the next
generation. You have to get the next

1116
01:42:26.399 --> 01:42:30.520
generation thinking about these things. So
I do point out that the way Katie

1117
01:42:30.640 --> 01:42:35.880
handled this is not to be dogmatic
about anything, but really just raising issues,

1118
01:42:36.039 --> 01:42:44.079
raising questions. She raises Audriana little. Audriana raises questions, She questions

1119
01:42:44.079 --> 01:42:49.279
her teacher, why is such and
such you know the case? So really,

1120
01:42:49.800 --> 01:42:53.520
for me, it's more than anything
else to get people to think.

1121
01:42:53.560 --> 01:42:56.880
Okay, So very slowly, Robert
tell people how they can get the book

1122
01:42:56.880 --> 01:43:02.119
because it's not on Amazon now,
it's not an Amazon, not yet at

1123
01:43:02.199 --> 01:43:06.119
least, And the way they should
get the book is they should go to

1124
01:43:06.239 --> 01:43:14.600
my website, which is Robert Shuck
r O B E R T S cchoch

1125
01:43:14.920 --> 01:43:20.039
dot com. And on the home
page they will see a button if they

1126
01:43:20.079 --> 01:43:25.520
scroll down and look for it,
that will show the book they should link

1127
01:43:26.159 --> 01:43:30.239
or click on that. It will
take them to my publications page and to

1128
01:43:30.359 --> 01:43:34.239
where this book is listed. And
from there they can click on the link

1129
01:43:34.680 --> 01:43:40.359
and they will go to at the
moment, Porter Square Books where they can

1130
01:43:40.520 --> 01:43:45.960
order a copy. Porter Square Books
is a local bookstore in the Boston area.

1131
01:43:46.079 --> 01:43:50.600
It's actually in Cambridge, Massachusetts,
and they are handling at the moment

1132
01:43:51.479 --> 01:43:57.520
copies of the book, so someone
can order from them their big commercial bookstore.

1133
01:43:57.800 --> 01:44:02.359
So there's no problem with you know, them taking orders, as about

1134
01:44:02.840 --> 01:44:06.880
giving their credit card, that type
of thing, and that's the best way.

1135
01:44:06.960 --> 01:44:13.319
So that's for domestic the US.
We are working on international distribution at

1136
01:44:13.319 --> 01:44:17.920
the moment. Okay. And what
is it retailing for. It is retailing

1137
01:44:17.960 --> 01:44:24.079
at Porter Square Books for twenty one
to ninety five a copy, okay,

1138
01:44:23.800 --> 01:44:29.640
five, which, uh you know
it's it's full color throughout, beautifully illustrated

1139
01:44:29.800 --> 01:44:33.960
and illustrated. Yeah, and we
people have told us it's well worth it.

1140
01:44:34.680 --> 01:44:39.800
Yeah, you've gotten some good comments. We've got some very good comments.

1141
01:44:39.880 --> 01:44:42.760
Okay, congratulations to you and Katie
on this new book, because we

1142
01:44:42.880 --> 01:44:46.640
do You're right, we do need
the next generation to be thinking about our

1143
01:44:46.800 --> 01:44:53.520
past, to be more open to
new ideas, and this book kind of

1144
01:44:53.720 --> 01:44:58.399
leads the way with some great ideas
too. Yeah. It's a book I

1145
01:44:58.399 --> 01:45:01.560
would have loved when I was a
child, And I've had other adults tell

1146
01:45:01.640 --> 01:45:06.640
me that they would have loved to
have had a book like this when they

1147
01:45:06.680 --> 01:45:14.039
were children. Fantastic. I hated
reading those stupid books that I books to

1148
01:45:14.159 --> 01:45:18.880
read to learn to read exactly,
Robert, A pleasure is always, and

1149
01:45:19.800 --> 01:45:27.520
I'm looking forward to catching up looking
at your website and getting all the details.

1150
01:45:27.520 --> 01:45:30.359
But thanks for joining me. It
was a real pleasure. Oh it's

1151
01:45:30.359 --> 01:45:38.439
a pleasure always. Thank you very
much, really appreciate it. So what

1152
01:45:38.479 --> 01:45:42.800
are some of the takeaways from that
interview. One of the ones that came

1153
01:45:43.000 --> 01:45:50.039
for me is the fact that it
really does look like the various dynasties inherited

1154
01:45:50.079 --> 01:45:56.840
a lot of their technology, a
lot of their science and physics, and

1155
01:45:57.199 --> 01:46:03.520
they came upon the Great Pyramid and
were awestruck and later made it a tomb.

1156
01:46:04.720 --> 01:46:10.880
They had no clue how it worked. They likely gutted the interior.

1157
01:46:10.920 --> 01:46:13.880
If you've ever been to the Great
Pyramid, when you go in, there's

1158
01:46:14.119 --> 01:46:19.880
these what I call machine housings.
You know how a part of a machine

1159
01:46:19.920 --> 01:46:30.319
sits on a facet or a kind
of a support system that's a housing repositories

1160
01:46:30.359 --> 01:46:35.920
for devices. In other words,
they held probably resonators, They held all

1161
01:46:36.039 --> 01:46:42.239
kinds of technology that was later removed. And so when we go into the

1162
01:46:42.239 --> 01:46:47.600
Great Hall, the king or the
Queen's chamber, it's gutted. There's nothing

1163
01:46:47.640 --> 01:46:54.119
in there but raw stone and so
that was a machine. And Chris Dunn

1164
01:46:54.199 --> 01:47:00.520
is tuning into it in his latest
book. He's always kind of been fascinated

1165
01:47:00.560 --> 01:47:05.279
by one of many Robert Baval,
Robert Shock Hancock, of course, and

1166
01:47:05.680 --> 01:47:10.760
you know Manu Says Today has written
recently, we've had doctor Says to Day

1167
01:47:10.800 --> 01:47:15.000
on the program who has written about
the pyramid and his belief that, you

1168
01:47:15.039 --> 01:47:24.600
know, the Egyptologists have it wrong. But there's something to this repurposing and

1169
01:47:25.039 --> 01:47:30.600
it's shedding such a light on just
who these pharaohs were. It's almost like

1170
01:47:30.680 --> 01:47:35.199
there was a book, a reference
book left for them from the previous civilization

1171
01:47:35.359 --> 01:47:40.640
that died out. We just don't
know. We have so level, so

1172
01:47:40.720 --> 01:47:45.399
little evidence of this civilization, you
know, and that's the big problem.

1173
01:47:45.479 --> 01:47:49.520
This is Mark Larners like, you
know, where are the potshards from those

1174
01:47:49.560 --> 01:47:59.600
previous people? And it's going to
probably be the work of a technologist creating

1175
01:47:59.640 --> 01:48:10.399
some kind of device that scans and
can detect information imbued in the hieroglyphs imbued

1176
01:48:10.439 --> 01:48:17.479
in the buildings placed in a staces
kind of like waiting for the right tech

1177
01:48:17.560 --> 01:48:21.439
to come around to free it.
It kind of sounds kind of spacey,

1178
01:48:21.640 --> 01:48:25.680
kind of high tech. But I
think that's where we're going to be,

1179
01:48:26.079 --> 01:48:30.520
And it may not be in the
next few decades. It may have to

1180
01:48:30.600 --> 01:48:33.880
wait, but I feel like it's
coming around because you know, right now

1181
01:48:34.039 --> 01:48:38.479
the big finds in Egypt are you
know, and this is Hawaas and these

1182
01:48:38.479 --> 01:48:43.560
other national geo They expect us to
be happy and surprised that, you know,

1183
01:48:43.600 --> 01:48:46.920
the discovery of some coffins in Sakara, that's the latest. You know,

1184
01:48:47.479 --> 01:48:53.399
why don't they do some scanning and
show us the underground canals in the

1185
01:48:53.399 --> 01:48:57.359
Giza Plateau? Well, why were
they carved like that? You know,

1186
01:48:57.800 --> 01:49:01.960
it's really it's really dummy down.
All the latest research, all the latest

1187
01:49:02.880 --> 01:49:09.119
references, all the latest reveals of
Egypt are all kind of dummy down.

1188
01:49:09.960 --> 01:49:15.840
Coffins, some old artifacts, a
new crypt is found. You know,

1189
01:49:15.880 --> 01:49:20.760
they're all about finding coffins. Who
cares? Really, who cares? You

1190
01:49:20.800 --> 01:49:26.399
know, get your act together,
get some tech and scan the valleys,

1191
01:49:26.920 --> 01:49:31.760
scan the plateau. They're gonna be
blown away by what they find. There's

1192
01:49:32.079 --> 01:49:35.960
you know, remember we had William
Brown on the program and he's telling us

1193
01:49:36.000 --> 01:49:44.039
that he's seen the entrance way to
underground tunnel systems in the Giza, Plateau

1194
01:49:44.640 --> 01:49:48.720
Hawara. Robert Schock talked about that. It's funny because I didn't realize he

1195
01:49:48.760 --> 01:49:57.520
had been there and had done some
research. So there's a lot of evidence

1196
01:49:57.840 --> 01:50:04.760
for a sophisticated pre Dynastic. People
were just not allowed to see it.

1197
01:50:06.039 --> 01:50:09.600
The only way you see it is
if you go over there with your camera,

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find some people like Muhammed Imbrahem.
You know, the old, the

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01:50:14.399 --> 01:50:20.159
old story of the Dynastics being such
great rulers. It's really looking pretty sad.

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01:50:21.199 --> 01:50:26.760
It's looking like they just barely got
by. It's funny, you know.

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01:50:27.000 --> 01:50:30.680
And they built an army and conquered
the north and south of Cairo.

1202
01:50:31.239 --> 01:50:35.399
But that doesn't mean anything. It
doesn't mean a lot. They do have

1203
01:50:35.479 --> 01:50:41.479
a lot of years behind and the
New, the Old, the Middle and

1204
01:50:41.520 --> 01:50:47.319
the and the New Kingdom. That's
many thousands of years. So they developed.

1205
01:50:47.319 --> 01:50:51.920
But how did they develop? Did
they developed based on an earlier system

1206
01:50:51.960 --> 01:50:59.520
of civilization? This is a huge
question that I have now and when we

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01:50:59.520 --> 01:51:08.000
we we have these guests who are
talking about vast amounts of repurposing, well,

1208
01:51:08.239 --> 01:51:13.279
hell, they must have had some
keys to the door. They must

1209
01:51:13.359 --> 01:51:17.760
have had some literature, They must
have had some data in the form of

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01:51:17.840 --> 01:51:23.560
hieroglyphs that we're not capturing right now, where we don't have anymore. That

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01:51:23.920 --> 01:51:32.760
is the lead to allow them to
civilize, allow them to prosper. Flat

1212
01:51:32.800 --> 01:51:35.479
out, there's no way. If
you guys have ever been to the Giza

1213
01:51:35.479 --> 01:51:41.520
plateau and you walk among these pyramids, there's no way any Pharaoh's built that

1214
01:51:41.600 --> 01:51:46.319
thing. You know, blocks that
are two point five tons each come on,

1215
01:51:47.520 --> 01:51:50.000
raising them three hundred feet in the
air. There's no way. They

1216
01:51:51.439 --> 01:51:58.479
didn't have the tech, you know. And anytime Egyptologist tries to replicate that

1217
01:51:58.800 --> 01:52:03.680
building the pyramid mid Pyramids, they
fail miserably. They can't explain it,

1218
01:52:04.119 --> 01:52:11.199
but they do. They find a
they find an odd symbol or a cartouche

1219
01:52:11.319 --> 01:52:16.199
of Sun Pharaoh, and there you
go. That's the answer to the question.

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01:52:16.439 --> 01:52:20.439
So anyhow, always a blast to
have Robert Shock on the program.

1221
01:52:21.199 --> 01:52:26.439
And take a look at the Facebook
page. I am going to post the

1222
01:52:26.439 --> 01:52:31.720
information on this new book for kids, and actually it looked really really good.

1223
01:52:31.800 --> 01:52:38.439
I have he sent me, and
also his wife Katie sent me some

1224
01:52:38.600 --> 01:52:44.159
photographs and some information on this in
this new book that's just been released,

1225
01:52:45.600 --> 01:52:50.680
which is kind of cool. Okay, that's it for this program, and

1226
01:52:50.800 --> 01:52:56.079
I think my guest today, doctor
Robert Shock, coming to us from the

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01:52:56.119 --> 01:53:00.439
East coast of the United States.
As always, a team of Guilt tour

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01:53:00.399 --> 01:53:08.119
Mark Foster and everyone who makes this
thing happen. You guys rock all right,

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01:53:08.159 --> 01:53:10.880
take care of you well, and
we will talk to you next time.