1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:15,359 Made a decision. Face Sunny sune on, I had a vision, Nach, 2 00:00:15,759 --> 00:00:20,800 what's up everybody. Welcome to our very special Thursday episode with special guests. 3 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:27,679 And our special guest today is an old friend of ours, Matt Fondelier. 4 00:00:28,039 --> 00:00:36,479 I was gonna say, Matt the Porson, punish your kiss you. 5 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,560 Matt, I know you. I have to say I miss you personally because 6 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,600 you know, you worked you know, I mean, he was Adam's assistant 7 00:00:45,719 --> 00:00:49,039 and I leaned on Matt for a lot of things, and you being gone 8 00:00:49,079 --> 00:00:52,759 as like a whole it was took a long time for me to recover. 9 00:00:53,439 --> 00:00:58,000 But uh, yeah, I miss you and I miss face at the studio, 10 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,079 and you know, yeah, it's been quite quite a change. I 11 00:01:03,119 --> 00:01:06,200 will say, it's hard to believe it's been almost two years. This April 12 00:01:06,239 --> 00:01:10,120 will be two full years. Oh wow, kind of time kind of flies, 13 00:01:10,159 --> 00:01:14,799 you know. Wow. Obviously I look back on my experiences with the 14 00:01:14,799 --> 00:01:19,120 whole Corolla crew very fondly, and uh it's it was a little weird starting 15 00:01:19,159 --> 00:01:22,159 over in Austin, but I have to say, like my wife and I 16 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,439 absolutely love it out here and it's just been like it was a big change, 17 00:01:26,439 --> 00:01:27,920 but it was a great change. I'm really happy that I did it. 18 00:01:29,079 --> 00:01:32,120 Well. We're going to get into some really good, juicy stuff about 19 00:01:32,159 --> 00:01:34,840 what Matt's working on, because he was working on a lot of things that 20 00:01:34,359 --> 00:01:40,719 sound very interesting to Stephanie and I. But just briefly, like, how 21 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,200 is Austin. I'm curious, like, is it great? Is it? 22 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,400 It's wonderful? I mean, have you either of you guys ever been here? 23 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,519 Now? But I really want to go. Okay, so Austin, 24 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,560 you know, the downtown area is a big college town, and it's the 25 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:00,480 very hip lots of bars and restaurants and you know, busy night life. 26 00:02:00,519 --> 00:02:02,879 That's not necessarily what my wife and I are into, like going out to 27 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:07,519 bars and restaurants. We're not really hitting the clubs or anything. But it's 28 00:02:07,599 --> 00:02:12,840 nice to have that kind of downtown area. And we're about fifteen minutes south 29 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,919 of downtown. And when you go north of downtown, it's a lot more 30 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,759 built out, lots of buildings and construction zones. But in South Austin that's 31 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,159 where they have like the Keep Austin Weird. It's very much like like Silver 32 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:30,960 Lake or Echo Park and just lots of you know, art community, very 33 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:35,159 dog friendly, big beautiful trees everywhere. You know, most of the bars 34 00:02:35,199 --> 00:02:39,680 and restaurants are just on these multi acre you know, beautiful picnic areas you 35 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,879 can bring the dogs and let them run around. And you know, our 36 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,599 property that we're we're still renting, but we moved to a place that's on 37 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:52,479 a half acre with a creek in the back. And it's cheaper than what 38 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,000 I had out there. You know, gas is like two fifty out here. 39 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,840 Yeah, so it's you know, just the general cost of living as 40 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:04,599 a lot lower. But like the personality of the city is very reminiscent of 41 00:03:05,039 --> 00:03:07,400 kind of what I left when I lived in like in Pasadena or Atwater Village. 42 00:03:07,439 --> 00:03:12,680 Like, it doesn't really feel like to what I thought texts this was 43 00:03:12,719 --> 00:03:15,639 going to feel like. But it's astin you know. Okay, wow, 44 00:03:15,719 --> 00:03:20,199 that sounds great. I'm very happy, so very happy. Well let's get 45 00:03:20,199 --> 00:03:23,800 into like what we were talking about before we went on air, about the 46 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:28,400 shows that you're producing that you're doing. Yeah, can you choose to like 47 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,080 how you when you first got there, were you were you going to produce 48 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:37,240 podcasts? Like what were you looking to do? I mean I just assumed 49 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:42,520 that I would continue producing podcasts just because I did that for Adam for what 50 00:03:42,719 --> 00:03:46,439 ended up being twelve years. Wow, and I just there's a few podcasts 51 00:03:46,479 --> 00:03:50,199 networks out here, and I just sort of felt like like I'm fucking hot 52 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,960 shit, like he isn't going to want to hire me, and that was 53 00:03:53,199 --> 00:03:58,599 not the reality. You know, just really had a hard time finding anything, 54 00:03:58,639 --> 00:04:03,759 to be totally honest competitive podcasting market, you know, I I think 55 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:08,759 that it is certainly if you're in my position where you just are like an 56 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:14,240 organized person who has good interpersonal relationships like that is apparently not as hard to 57 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,120 find as I thought. But you know, I call and can attest to 58 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,879 this too. Like we have we have a certain set of knowledge of you 59 00:04:20,879 --> 00:04:25,000 know, engineering and editing, and that kind of comes in handy. But 60 00:04:25,439 --> 00:04:29,959 my experience has been people want to know if you're like a video editor, 61 00:04:30,399 --> 00:04:32,839 and I you know, I did a little bit of video editing in high 62 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,839 school and college, but I'm basically an audio guy, and so it's been 63 00:04:36,879 --> 00:04:40,519 a bit of a learning curve for me to how to learn how to do 64 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,839 video content. Even I'm sure your Guys show has a video component to it, 65 00:04:44,959 --> 00:04:46,800 So I think that was sort of the skill that I was lacking in 66 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:51,160 a little bit. But I have been schmoozing quite a bit over the last 67 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,680 year. I didn't tell you guys this off air, but I got a 68 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:01,160 gig actually just wrapped working as a story producer on a documentary about this stand 69 00:05:01,199 --> 00:05:04,600 up comedian named Matt Rife who's been in the headlines Lady. Yeah, yes 70 00:05:04,639 --> 00:05:10,480 he is. So this production company out here, I've been trying to work 71 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,839 for them for like a year, and the guy who runs this company finally 72 00:05:14,879 --> 00:05:18,120 got this project with a comedian and asked if I wanted to come on board 73 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:23,439 and basically help them figure out the story that was within all of the footage 74 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,720 that they captured, and that to me ended up being like a dream job. 75 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,560 I loved every minute of it. And it's really close to what I 76 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,639 do for the true crime stuff, which is kind of just becoming an expert 77 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:40,399 on a particular story and just consuming as much material as I can and then 78 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,040 trying to like tell that story, right If that makes sense, Yeah, 79 00:05:44,079 --> 00:05:47,279 that makes sense. Is it a map Rife puff piece? You know, 80 00:05:47,439 --> 00:05:50,319 it probably would be a little bit, just because he's on top of the 81 00:05:50,319 --> 00:05:54,800 world right now and he has a sold out world tour for the next several 82 00:05:54,879 --> 00:05:59,439 years. So the whole idea would be kind of following him as he's you 83 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,800 know, on him, rise going to be included, I think, so 84 00:06:02,959 --> 00:06:06,079 yeah, we definitely we were incorporating that because it's all, you know, 85 00:06:06,319 --> 00:06:14,959 real reactions to what's happening too, so it's a documentary on him. Yeah, 86 00:06:15,079 --> 00:06:17,800 yeah, and to kind of circle back to what you were saying. 87 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,000 So that that came like within the last few months, but pretty much for 88 00:06:21,079 --> 00:06:26,720 the last year, I just leaned on my creative writing. I did a 89 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:31,639 lot of sword and Scale episodes, and I ended up through connection that we 90 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,240 all know and love, Gary Smith. Through him, got put in touch 91 00:06:35,399 --> 00:06:40,680 with a couple of defense attorneys that were looking to start their own podcast, 92 00:06:41,199 --> 00:06:46,959 and I kind of became their producer. So the last year I've been you 93 00:06:46,959 --> 00:06:50,120 know, producing the true crime shows, producing the Lawyer Show, Me and 94 00:06:50,199 --> 00:06:55,360 Kaylin and Gary and Chris and Dawson. We also do a water cooler two 95 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,519 to three times a week, and then this this other follow doc project has 96 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,720 just been It's been a lot. But happy for you, Matt. I'm 97 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,759 so happy. Yeah, you're so busy, busy, busy, yeah, 98 00:07:06,959 --> 00:07:14,279 but so tell us about the true crime podcast The Lawyer One, Yes, 99 00:07:14,879 --> 00:07:18,680 The Lawyer one Yeah. Okay, so, uh, this wonderful attorney on 100 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:24,279 the West Coast. Her name is Sarah Azari. She is a criminal defense 101 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:30,240 attorney. Uh, and she started following, like everybody, the Alec Murda 102 00:07:30,519 --> 00:07:34,199 case, which sort of gripped the nation, and she reached out to one 103 00:07:34,199 --> 00:07:40,399 of the attorneys who represents Alec, and he lives in South Carolina and I'm 104 00:07:40,399 --> 00:07:44,360 here in Austin, and basically they're on multiple coasts and I just produced the 105 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,600 show remotely. And the show is called The Presumption, and it's all about, 106 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,680 you know, the presumption of innocence. And we now live in a 107 00:07:51,759 --> 00:07:57,199 world where as soon as you read the headlines, you're already starting to make 108 00:07:57,279 --> 00:08:01,879 up your mind about whether or not this person is give And their argument is 109 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,759 that oftentimes, by the time the trial starts, everybody is in the assumption 110 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,040 of guilt, not the presumption of innocence. And so it is a legal 111 00:08:11,079 --> 00:08:16,680 analysis podcast. They interview other defense attorneys, people that are kind of involved 112 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:22,439 in the sort of peripheries of criminal prosecution. We did an episode about light 113 00:08:22,519 --> 00:08:28,120 detectors with an expert about cell phone towers, DNA and they look at it 114 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:33,960 from a defense point of view, trying to kind of pick apart what the 115 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,240 public convention. You know, what you would think is the reality about, 116 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,879 say a lie detector, and how you can beat a lot detector, and 117 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:46,080 what's the reality of being able to do that right into Yeah, Oh, 118 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,639 I thought for sure beating a light detector would be possible. Like I heard 119 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,879 you just literally you just squeeze your butt, you know how you can pass 120 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:54,960 the test. Oh, I've heard that, but I found out that they 121 00:08:56,039 --> 00:09:03,200 actually have a butt pad censor that you sit on. It will measure that 122 00:09:03,799 --> 00:09:07,720 I've never heard. Okay, but I have a friend, Okay, an 123 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:18,519 actual friend who decided to be a cop after years of maybe living a different 124 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,000 kind of life, decided to be a cop. Had to had to and 125 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,759 did pass the light detector test and had to. Yeah, and he said 126 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:31,200 he just like slowed his breathing. He you like, mind over matter and 127 00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:35,200 he passed the light And so what I mean, as far as I could 128 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,279 tell, mind over matter would be the only way to do it, because 129 00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:43,200 the way that this guy described it is that these tests are measuring the like 130 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,279 this is my this is my version of what he said, But they're measuring 131 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,679 like the synaps is going off in your brain before you've even said the word. 132 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,080 So you know, if I say the word horse, you just think 133 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,879 of a horse in your head. And it kind of works like that. 134 00:09:56,039 --> 00:10:01,799 So even if you think that you're saying it, if you've already thought it, 135 00:10:01,799 --> 00:10:05,080 it's too late. Oh and the whole idea of taking your time and 136 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,080 slowly responding, slowly, slow in your breathing, it doesn't work like that. 137 00:10:09,159 --> 00:10:13,639 There's timers. You have to answer in a sad amount of time. 138 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:18,919 So the people have passed light detector tests and then been proven guilty like by 139 00:10:18,039 --> 00:10:22,960 DNA. So I mean that's why they're not, uh, you know, 140 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,879 admissible, and yeah, thank you for the word admissible. Why aren't they 141 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:31,559 admissible? And co? None of this isn't exact science. That's the problem. 142 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,480 It's it's all. It's all crazy now. Genetic genealogy. Yeah, 143 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:41,600 they'll be able to find you out from your distant relatives. Stupid different relatives 144 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,559 that went on fucking twenty three and me like they understand there is a murderer 145 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,759 in the family that needs to remain anonymous. My god, right, have 146 00:10:50,919 --> 00:10:56,440 some decency? What else about like that's that's been interesting that. Uh, 147 00:10:56,879 --> 00:11:03,279 I'm sure you've gotten some like DNA stuff or how do they fight the DNA 148 00:11:03,399 --> 00:11:07,399 these defense attorneys, these damn defenses, you know. Again, I think 149 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:13,559 it's really about just proving, like trying to prove that it's not an exact 150 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,360 science and trying to think, you know, just because they have something called 151 00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:20,039 I think it's called contact DNA or touch DNA. There's a big case happening 152 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,720 right now about Brian Coburger. I don't know if you guys have heard of 153 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,559 that. Yes, yeah, the Idaho guy. And there's you know, 154 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:33,639 like a knife sheaf. The knife holder was found under the person's body and 155 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:41,039 it contained DNA from Ryang right on the on then, but one could argue 156 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,679 that you could like have that rubbed up against their clothing or they touched something 157 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,600 that somebody else touched before then, and there's just ways to transfer it that 158 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,799 it doesn't one hundred percent mean that it was yours. And that's sort of 159 00:11:54,000 --> 00:12:00,120 at least my observations. They're trying to create a reasonable doubt does to just 160 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,919 you know, let you know that it's not one hundred percent. If it's 161 00:12:03,919 --> 00:12:07,080 not one hundred percent, maybe you should go the other way from your decision, 162 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,840 right, But usually not, because usually there's a whole bunch of things 163 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,639 that line up right that they try to go I was listening to, of 164 00:12:15,639 --> 00:12:18,799 course, like a dateline or something. It was the defense attorneys were trying 165 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:24,440 to argue the cell phone tower evidence and saying, well, it's not an 166 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,399 exact science, and you know, trying to get somebody to admit that just 167 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:33,080 because the cell phone tower doesn't mean that you were necessarily there. But of 168 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,840 course in the case, there were several cell phone towers for several places. 169 00:12:37,879 --> 00:12:41,559 It was like the place where the murder happened, and then the place where 170 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,960 he buried the body, and the where he something happened with a dog, 171 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,519 And it was like, so, okay, maybe if it was just if 172 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,240 it all relied on one cell tower, but then when you're talking about three, 173 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,080 that would be the biggest coincidence. Yeah, But the defense always tries 174 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:01,440 to go, well, that there's a coincidence happen, Yeah, yep, 175 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,559 exactly, And then the defense world they go, that's a bad fact. 176 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,279 They just call that a bad fact. I don't even quite get what that's 177 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:11,559 supposed to mean. But that sounds pretty bad to me, that's for sure. 178 00:13:11,639 --> 00:13:15,360 Do you ever just that stuff? No, I don't know, because 179 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,840 honestly, like I can, and I believe in the mission of the show, 180 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:24,559 which is to ultimately kind of preserve the justice system and if you are 181 00:13:24,919 --> 00:13:28,080 convicted or if you are accused of a crime, like you would want a 182 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,279 fair trial. Yeah, it is kind of crazy. I mean, it's 183 00:13:31,279 --> 00:13:35,600 obviously harder and harder to find like an impartial jury, people who've never heard 184 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,879 any of the facts of the case. It's really hard to do that these 185 00:13:39,919 --> 00:13:43,600 days, especially with the Internet and things like that. But it's it's kind 186 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:48,440 of bullshit if six people have already made up their mind before they've even looked 187 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,919 at the paperwork of the king, right right, That's that's the part to 188 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,360 me that I can get behind and understand. Like again, I write a 189 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:01,440 ton of stories about horrible people who do the worst thing is imaginable, and 190 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:07,159 they deserve to fucking rotten Hell sorry, yeah you can cuss. Yeah, 191 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:13,080 I produced the show, the show, I know, so like, I 192 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:18,000 am in no way like a pro defendant kind of person, But I do 193 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,480 think that a lot of times we make a lot of assumptions and it's not 194 00:14:22,759 --> 00:14:26,919 fair. If it's in the matter of the courts now it shouldn't that should 195 00:14:26,919 --> 00:14:28,159 not come into play. Do you ever think though, and I mean this 196 00:14:28,279 --> 00:14:31,559 is the most obvious question ever, but do you ever think some of these 197 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:37,279 criminals that it's pretty much proven, like let's just say they admit to it, 198 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,360 you know, and it's just a heinous crime, and it's not just 199 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:46,200 a uh, a false confession, but it's like something that you know, 200 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,039 they actually really knew the facts of the case or whatever, and then there's 201 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,200 DNA or whatever. Do you ever feel like and it's let's just say it's 202 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:58,080 a horrible crime against murdering children or babies, you know, and then you 203 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,440 get the defense that's like really trying kind of poke holes and trying to find 204 00:15:01,559 --> 00:15:05,600 any way to defend this person. Do you ever just feel like, how 205 00:15:05,679 --> 00:15:09,879 does that person sleep at night knowing that there's a chance they could get somebody 206 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:11,639 out that will for sure go do something, you know what I mean, 207 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,759 like a serial killer, Like somebody has to defend that person. Yeah, 208 00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:18,200 and when it's really obvious that they did it, but they still have to 209 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,440 mount a defense. Do you ever feel like, God, that's got to 210 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,279 be the hardest job ever. I mean, it's definitely a very difficult job, 211 00:15:26,399 --> 00:15:31,519 and they get a horrible reputation for that reason. I mean, even 212 00:15:31,639 --> 00:15:35,600 my dad is an attorney. He started as a defense attorney and he over 213 00:15:35,679 --> 00:15:39,960 time became a plaintiffs attorney because he had a really hard time, like looking 214 00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:43,759 at himself in the mirror when he was a defense attorney. Yeah, just 215 00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:46,039 feeling like he's screwed. He screwed over people who, you know, who 216 00:15:46,159 --> 00:15:50,720 didn't need to have to happen to them. And so I can definitely see 217 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:56,039 that side of it. But again, and what you're talking about where it's 218 00:15:56,039 --> 00:16:00,720 like the person has obviously done it and they they're just putting every buddy through 219 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,279 this making them read it. That is the worst of the worst. But 220 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,399 I would say that the core of the defense attorney's job is a little bit 221 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,039 on the other side of the scale, which is more like sort of a 222 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:15,720 disenfranchised person who you know, they've had a really hard time in life and 223 00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:18,840 maybe they did do something terrible, but like they deserve a chance to try 224 00:16:18,879 --> 00:16:22,320 to get out, you know, even if it's even if it was something 225 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,000 terrible, like you know, I don't know, it's kind of hard to 226 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,600 put into words. That's yeah, I guess part of what's fascinating about the 227 00:16:29,679 --> 00:16:32,519 whole topic in general. While we all like these crimes, tool yeah, 228 00:16:32,679 --> 00:16:34,320 is a little bit of a gray area. Sometimes. Let's take a quick 229 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,120 break and then we'll come back and see if you have any specific cases to 230 00:16:38,159 --> 00:16:44,879 tell us about. All Right, we're back, boy, so much to 231 00:16:45,399 --> 00:16:48,039 talk about. I love this stuff. Were there any cases that they covered 232 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,200 that you were like thought one way, but then hearing the defense attorney's talk, 233 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:57,240 you were like, oh, maybe I was wrong. I have to 234 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:02,559 get back to that one. Well, let me ask you about, like 235 00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:06,160 can we I want to ask you about I'm fascinating. I don't let me 236 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,799 be clear, I do not know anything other than what everybody else who just 237 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:14,480 watches TV and watches the docu series and things like that. Now I have 238 00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:18,759 zero insider information, even though this guy is a host of the show. 239 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:22,200 But it's not like, yeah, I'm getting a deep dive or learning anything 240 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,079 at all. Right, But we were talking about like Alex Murdoch, for 241 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:32,359 instance. You know his trial was in like the hometown of every Like, 242 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,279 how do you get a fair let's say, mate, Like like obviously he 243 00:17:36,319 --> 00:17:40,200 did do it? You know, Bubba, you know, uh, it's 244 00:17:40,319 --> 00:17:45,039 chicken, you know. But like let's say that didn't have Let's say he 245 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,240 could have been innocent, Like, but yet he looked really guilty. Like, 246 00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:52,480 how do you how come they had the trial there? And that I 247 00:17:52,519 --> 00:17:56,599 thought he wondered that. I don't know if you're aware of that this is 248 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,839 still ongoing there a trial even though it's ended. There is a whole thing 249 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:06,160 happening right now about tampering with the jury and was it a fair trial? 250 00:18:06,599 --> 00:18:08,160 Right? And that was one of the big arguments, is like, how 251 00:18:08,559 --> 00:18:15,160 how do you find twelve people who don't know this story, especially when it's 252 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,880 in the hometown and involves one of the most influential figures of that town. 253 00:18:19,079 --> 00:18:22,000 Right of course everybody knows about it. And also there's been a lot of 254 00:18:22,079 --> 00:18:26,759 documentaries about it. How do you find someone who doesn't have Netflix? So 255 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,640 what is the deal with that? If that's what the defense is kind of 256 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,400 arguing, right, they're like that it's it's bullshit. And in this particular 257 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,119 case, the like the head of the jury, like the clerk of the 258 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,240 court, who you know, you could say, it's almost like a den 259 00:18:41,279 --> 00:18:45,119 mother to the juriors like trying to brings them in and out, and apparently, 260 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,279 according to like documents that were filed, she was essentially she made up 261 00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:52,200 her mind that he did it, and was kind of the whole time just 262 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,119 being like, all right, people, we all know that he did it. 263 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,559 Let's just get up and get home. And you know, whether or 264 00:18:57,559 --> 00:19:02,400 not people believe this woman, they still heard what she had to say, 265 00:19:02,519 --> 00:19:06,960 right, and that's all. It's all influencing the decision that's being made. 266 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,559 Right, they're arguing for like a retrial basically, but again, the same 267 00:19:11,559 --> 00:19:15,400 thing is gonna pop up, like how do you retry this case when even 268 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,480 more people now know this case? I didn't know the story basically, you 269 00:19:18,519 --> 00:19:23,720 know. Yeah, wow, I feel responsible because I've personally like discussed it 270 00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:30,880 with quite a few people. Yeah, but you know, Calen also had 271 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:36,079 me prepare some some of the true crime stories that I've worked on. Yeah, 272 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,240 tell you guys a little bit about you know, And actually I will 273 00:19:40,279 --> 00:19:45,160 say that this first one that I'll tease a little bit is the season premiere 274 00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:48,559 of this year's Sort and Scale show. So if you have Sword and Scale 275 00:19:48,599 --> 00:19:52,759 plus, the episode just came out on Sunday and if you are on the 276 00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:56,920 main feed, it comes out this Sunday. And this was the story that 277 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,680 I found to be pretty interesting, which is to say that, you know, 278 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,279 when people get old, we just expect that old people are gonna die 279 00:20:07,319 --> 00:20:12,440 one day, and especially if it happens in like a retirement community, somebody 280 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:18,000 coming home with their groceries and then being found on the floor of their kitchen 281 00:20:18,079 --> 00:20:22,720 with no visible injuries to them and some groceries that are just sitting on the 282 00:20:22,759 --> 00:20:27,279 countertop, everybody just assumes that that old woman had a heart attack or died 283 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:33,680 like any other kind of senior citizen would go. And this story that I 284 00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:37,240 dove into deals with that exact opening, except that the children noticed in the 285 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:45,000 days that followed that jewelry was missing from their mom slash grandmother's apartment, including 286 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,599 her wedding ring. And over the course of a couple months, a couple 287 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:55,000 other elderly women were found dead and again assumed to be of natural causes. 288 00:20:55,359 --> 00:21:00,200 And it wasn't until another woman was attacked by a guy pretending to be like 289 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:06,160 a compassionate care worker, tried to smother her with a pillow. Oh my 290 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:12,680 god, survived, and essentially they tried to catch up to this mysterious man. 291 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,559 And as these story unfolds, you find out that he has been doing 292 00:21:18,599 --> 00:21:23,119 this for a very long time. Whoa a lot of elderly women who were 293 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:29,920 all killed by this guy. Wow, that's diabolical, like really really creepy 294 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,359 stuff. I mean, I got a hand it to him. It's pretty 295 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,480 smart, Like I'm not like taking sides here like that, taking it out, 296 00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:40,680 you know, like no, but it makes sense, like elder like, 297 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,440 you know, don't attack the young, vibrant mom that's at home alone 298 00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:47,160 going for a jog, you know, because then you're it's gonna catch up 299 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,279 to you. Go for the elderly that do it. The old ticker's got 300 00:21:51,279 --> 00:21:56,000 to go sometime. Well. They actually have like footage from the Walmart parking 301 00:21:56,039 --> 00:22:00,440 lot and this dude would just star his car and just park his car with 302 00:22:00,519 --> 00:22:06,759 a view of the handicap spots and he'd like follow them in and like, 303 00:22:06,799 --> 00:22:08,240 oh man, let me help you with the car. Oh let me help 304 00:22:08,279 --> 00:22:12,279 you. And you could just watch this guy just in the background just silently 305 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:17,160 following these women all over Walmart. It really makes you think, like that 306 00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:21,279 that could be me. You know. It's terrified. But he didn't try 307 00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:26,559 to kill them at Walmart. He would follow follow them other home, wow, 308 00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:30,720 and then and then try to smother them with a pillow. So to 309 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:36,359 people's house, to their house, or to like retirement retire nursing homes, 310 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,960 so nursing home. So there's a whole other layer to the story of people 311 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:47,559 who work in these retirement communities that see this guy loitering around and they don't 312 00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:51,160 do anything about it because they just aren't thinking that he's really a danger. 313 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,599 They're thinking, Oh, how nice, Gladys has a visitor. She hasn't 314 00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,359 had many visitors. That's all right, So that's that's that's the newest and 315 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,680 Scale. I have a question. So when you're looking for these stories, 316 00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:07,880 you gotta you you want to find the stories that have good audio, Like 317 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,759 have that have the audio from the interrogation? Is that always like you look 318 00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:15,799 for or video, So it's not just a story, it's got the you 319 00:23:15,799 --> 00:23:21,440 can hear the interrogation. That's sort of the hook of Sword and Scale is 320 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,400 that, you know, we fill out the Freedom of Information Act requests and 321 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:30,319 we actually track and get the audio from the stories themselves. But there is 322 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:36,920 another variation of the show that recently came out called Sword and Scale Nightmares, 323 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:41,160 and rather than being hour long episodes with all of the audio, they're half 324 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:47,039 hour episodes and it's just narration. It's just a story. So what that 325 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:52,400 means is that now I can do cases that don't have incredible audio okay, 326 00:23:52,519 --> 00:23:57,200 crazy stories from really any point in time, which is a good transition for 327 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:03,720 another story that I like. Yes please as we're delighted episode great skill, 328 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:10,200 dream come true? What are you doing next Monday? This is so old 329 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:14,680 old school for us. Yes, okay, go Matt, go okay. 330 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,680 So this is on the Sword and Scale Nightmares feed. This is one of 331 00:24:18,079 --> 00:24:19,839 it's weird to say my favorite episodees because it's such a fucked up story, 332 00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:23,680 but it's a good one. Yeah, yes episode here and said that we 333 00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:26,119 you know Matt does these all the time, and on the water cooler we 334 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,359 always he's always like kind of talking about his cases and he gets so excited, 335 00:24:30,039 --> 00:24:33,720 like horrible, horrific nightmare cases and his face gets all giddy. We 336 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,359 always make fun of him for like Jesus man, calm down, there's I 337 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:42,359 know I remember, like I remember specifically talking to you at the warehouse like 338 00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:45,640 years ago and I'm like, I need something to listen to, and You're 339 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,599 like, do you like true crime? And I was like yes, I 340 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,759 was like done and done. And that's what started me on the true Crime 341 00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:56,319 like podcast because there's so many other good ones. Okay, so go ahead, 342 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,680 go ahead, I was gonna say, speaking of of the show that 343 00:25:00,759 --> 00:25:03,000 we do with Kalin, you know, he has a pond Pond clean business, 344 00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:08,480 but there have been casualties, and he therefore has his own segment called 345 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:15,559 Sword in Scales some really nasty fish murders you don't even want to bike. 346 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,680 I think there's been one or two fc old Patreon episodes where I've been the 347 00:25:19,759 --> 00:25:29,000 various investigations that have gone on in my poor Sword and Scale nightmares story. 348 00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:33,200 It's called going for a Spin. And this is going back to the seventies, 349 00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:37,920 all right, nineteen seventy six, that's my ali. Yes, sorry, 350 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,440 Well, as the country was celebrating its bi centennial, a bunch of 351 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:49,359 people got together and made a thousands of mile long bicycle path and it was 352 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:56,079 called Bike Centennial seventy six. It was a very successful event, people riding 353 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,440 on their bikes from Oregon to Boston or something on the office. Remember that 354 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,119 where was the bike? How did the bike trail go? Was? From 355 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,720 what state to It starts and start in Oregon. I honestly can't remember which 356 00:26:07,759 --> 00:26:11,079 one it goes to because the people in the story don't get very far. 357 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:17,079 Okay, oh, but essentially nineteen seventy six, big successful year. There 358 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:23,039 was a guidebook. And in nineteen seventy seven, these two college sorority sisters, 359 00:26:23,319 --> 00:26:25,960 I don't know what they were in a sorority together, but these two 360 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,640 friends from college, they decide, with limited experience, that they are going 361 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,480 to take this bicycle trip together. It's months long camping, you know, 362 00:26:34,519 --> 00:26:37,119 but you're getting to see nature. You go through ten different states, and 363 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,480 it was just sort of like this romantic idea to just have the open road 364 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,799 ahead of you. So these two like nineteen year old girls, they're on 365 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,319 this path, starting in Oregon. They're going to go east and they meet 366 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:55,200 up with this married couple who are clearly like much more experienced bikers than they 367 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,519 are. And after about a week it's obvious that the two girls are holding 368 00:26:59,559 --> 00:27:02,880 this couple. So the married couple says, listen, we're just gonna We're 369 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,400 just gonna go separate ways. They go twenty miles, and the two girls 370 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,200 have their little guidebook and they see that about fifteen miles, which is a 371 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:17,160 lot easier for them to do, there is an overnight park called Climb Falls 372 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,559 State Park, and they take the track to climb Fall State Park. And 373 00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:25,119 when they get there, they find out that it's for day use only. 374 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,279 You're not supposed to spend the night there. Their guidebook was rocked on. 375 00:27:30,279 --> 00:27:33,920 But now it's too late and it's getting dark, yeah, and so the 376 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,839 two of them decide to set up a tent and stay the night by this 377 00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:44,240 river. And in the middle of the night, a truck comes burning into 378 00:27:44,279 --> 00:27:48,880 their tent, pins down one of the two girls. She while she's pinned 379 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:55,640 under this truck, here's her friend and this like thumping, nasty, gashing 380 00:27:55,759 --> 00:28:00,319 sound. And the woman who's pinned under the truck suddenly feels relieved. The 381 00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:03,759 truck has moved away from her. And then she hears the footsteps of a 382 00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:07,880 guy approaching and he stands over her with an axe in his hands, and 383 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,839 she cannot remember his face. All she can remember was that he was a 384 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:17,960 handsome cowboy and she begs for her his begs for her life, and he 385 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,400 walks away, and let's wow. She goes up to her friend, who's 386 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,519 been struck in the head several times with an axe, but miraculously, another 387 00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:33,640 car has come into the over the day park campsite and manages to get the 388 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:38,480 two of them to a hospital. The woman who was struck in the head 389 00:28:40,279 --> 00:28:44,839 makes it through, but she has no memory of what happened, and the 390 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,359 woman who was pinned by the car, who begged for her life, she 391 00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:52,680 remembers everything except for who did it, what this guy actually looked like, 392 00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:59,799 and a like five foot six child molester kind of guy who's in prison admits 393 00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:03,279 of the crime, but it is not the guy that she remembers. She 394 00:29:03,319 --> 00:29:11,480 remembers like a handsome cowboy. Now, this case is never prosecuted, cold 395 00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:15,799 case, no suspects, no clues, nothing. This woman, by the 396 00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:19,400 way, imagine your memory of somebody who just like tried to murder your friend 397 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:26,400 and you is that he's handsome? Yeah, I mean he wasn't half bad 398 00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:33,640 looking, you know. Okay? Sorry. Fifteen years go by and this 399 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,200 woman has been battling some like psychological issues, as you can imagine, and 400 00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:42,039 she decides that she's going to go back to Oregon. And solve the case 401 00:29:42,079 --> 00:29:47,759 herself, and she wrote an incredible memoir where she basically does just that, 402 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,680 and I essentially adapted her book into the episode of This Sword and Skill mas. 403 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,839 Yow. That's great. So they found the guy. It's I want 404 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,079 to kind of tease it a little so that I don't give away necessarily everything, 405 00:30:02,079 --> 00:30:07,680 but I will say that it's it is a somewhat satisfying ending in that 406 00:30:07,759 --> 00:30:10,799 it kind of goes back to what we're all talking about, which is it 407 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,240 really does seem like that's the guy. That they did find the guy, 408 00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:19,680 but there's also parts of the whole case that you just kind of never know. 409 00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:26,160 But it's truly like a real life, you know, campfire axe, 410 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,920 murderer in the woods kind of ghost story, but it's a real story, 411 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,039 and he's doing an incrediblory of like survival of this one woman too. I'm 412 00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:36,039 gonna ask you, you guys a question, why do you think it is 413 00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:40,079 like this is just never the other way around? There are never like, 414 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,240 oh, a guy decides to like go on a hike by himself and just 415 00:30:44,279 --> 00:30:48,000 gets murdered by some random woman with an AX, Like it just doesn't it's 416 00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:52,920 always women alone like what is that bloodthirst that men have to go and like 417 00:30:53,079 --> 00:30:57,559 rape and murder women the second they're alone, Like it's crazy to me that 418 00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:03,400 there are so many bad men that women can't be in a stairwell alone, 419 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,880 Like if you're just walking down the street atlone alone at night, like your 420 00:31:07,839 --> 00:31:14,200 game for gott to learn some guy and murder you. But like it scares 421 00:31:14,279 --> 00:31:18,240 me that you can't think about going. I mean that no woman would ever 422 00:31:18,359 --> 00:31:23,880 go camping by herself or with a girlfriend somewhere remote by themselves because for fear 423 00:31:25,839 --> 00:31:29,359 not of like being killed by a bear, but of some guy going, 424 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,880 oh, good women alone, let me rape and kill them, Like why 425 00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:37,319 is that? I don't know. And actually there was another point of the 426 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,680 story early on when the two girls before they went on this on the bike 427 00:31:41,759 --> 00:31:45,359 ride, they're just like practicing doing a bike ride somewhere else, and they 428 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,079 had set up their tent and at the campsite there was like a creepy dude 429 00:31:49,079 --> 00:31:53,240 who is just kind of just making like dick jokes and being a little bit 430 00:31:53,359 --> 00:31:59,519 like too uncomfortably flirty with them, And one of the girls had this idea 431 00:31:59,599 --> 00:32:04,359 that we should turn the tent around so that you would think the opening of 432 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,240 the tent would be facing the river or facing the rest of the campers, 433 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,319 but we're gonna put the opening on the other side. And sure enough, 434 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:16,319 that night, while they're falling asleep, they saw handprints on the side of 435 00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:21,119 their tent where the zipper would normally be of this dude trying to get into 436 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,519 their tent. Oh my god, these girls have bad luck at camp site. 437 00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:29,160 Yeah, it's not bad luck, it's bad men. It's crazy. 438 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,960 No, but I think I mean, obviously like a size and strength thing, 439 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,079 it's you know, it's fucked up. It's really fucked up. Just 440 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,720 sad crime stories of crazy women, but not like that, not in the 441 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:45,720 same way did the women all like every episode of Snapped or whatever. Women 442 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:52,039 kill their husbands, they kill uh you know, their their lovers, their 443 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:58,039 rival for their lover, the other woman. They kill family members, they 444 00:32:58,119 --> 00:33:02,640 kill their you know, brother. I mean, they're abusive uncle. But 445 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,920 women are not. There's there aren't sexual crimes. They're just random trying to 446 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:13,039 attack a guy and have sex with them. Yeah. Well, let's take 447 00:33:13,079 --> 00:33:15,720 a quick let's take a break, and let's get back to some other stories 448 00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:22,319 on that note. All right, we're back this is the best time ever. 449 00:33:22,559 --> 00:33:24,119 I know, I know, Matt, do you have one mark? 450 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,240 Well, just really quickly, I wanted to ask Matt, like, where 451 00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:30,279 did you find that you said she wrote a book? Are you like, 452 00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:32,119 do you is that just research? Oh, here's a true crime book. 453 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,759 Did you read the book? Did you then look into like if that story 454 00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:38,880 had been told, Like, how exactly does that develop into an episode? 455 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:45,480 Yeah? Great question. I generally am looking for I start with just a 456 00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:50,559 kernel of an idea, and then I want to see if there is a 457 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,400 story that's kind of like that. So, for example, this is a 458 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,319 story I remember when I was a kid. This is a quick side note. 459 00:33:57,359 --> 00:33:59,960 When I was a little kid, my family and I went to Yosemi 460 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,799 and when we got there, I went to the hotel. I turned on 461 00:34:02,839 --> 00:34:08,239 the TV and there was a news flash about an axe murderer that just murdered 462 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:14,840 a scientist living in Yosemite. And that night, my dad, not really 463 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,679 knowing or giving a shit, was like, let's take a walk around the 464 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,760 campgro walk around the hotel at nighttime, and I was like having a fucking 465 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,199 heart attack. So that has always stayed with me. Now that story has 466 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,400 been covered, I ended up finding. I was going to cover it, 467 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:35,599 and then I saw that there's like a Hulu docu series that's about that case. 468 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:42,519 But when I was typing in Axe Murderer Campsite, I stumbled across this 469 00:34:42,599 --> 00:34:45,840 other story and I just saw like a little headline about what's called the Kleine 470 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,960 Falls axe attack, and I was like, oh, that sounds kind of 471 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,000 interesting, and so from there I had like Wikipedia, Google search that and 472 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,960 then eventually found all this woman wrote a book about it, and then it 473 00:34:58,079 --> 00:35:00,960 just kind of goes from there. Some of the sword and scale ones where 474 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:06,239 you need the audio. I'm honestly just looking at YouTube for cases that are 475 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,320 online that have audio. That's really like a good study point. But if 476 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:15,039 you put in your Google search, I'm just kidding, there's an FBI right 477 00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:19,760 now. Search is insane, It really is. I mean it just depends. 478 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,920 Like I said, like Ax Murderer Campsite, that would definitely be one 479 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,400 I wanted to do a story about, like an exorcism. I feel like 480 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:30,079 there's gotta be like murders that involve exorcism. There's a really famous one that 481 00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:35,760 they turn into a movie. But I found a truly horrifying story about a 482 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,239 priest who killed a baby because he was trying to perform an exorcism and it's 483 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,679 so messed up. But then my Google search becomes all about the details of 484 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:50,199 that case to try to find reliable news sources and contacts. Right wow, 485 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,280 So anyway, you know, and I don't know if that answers your question, 486 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,440 what's your algorithm? Like, like, what kind of videos are popping 487 00:35:54,519 --> 00:36:00,199 up on your all? Like true crime? Yes, in fact, they 488 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,119 recall on an episode of Water Cooler, I try to share some video on 489 00:36:02,159 --> 00:36:06,960 YouTube and you guys all saw like similar videos or videos I've been looking at 490 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,239 on the right hand side, and it was it was disturbing a lot of 491 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,719 uh yeah, like pedophile and stuff like that too. Like yeah, I 492 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,159 mean occasionally I've I have covered stories like that. I mean, to me, 493 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,639 I'm obviously we're looking for stories that are about the darkest parts of humanity, 494 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:29,960 but I my interests are more in the kind of slasher horror movie adjacent 495 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,639 kind of stories, right right. You know, some of the other writers 496 00:36:32,679 --> 00:36:38,159 can really really get into like the true horrors of you know, interpersonal relationships 497 00:36:38,159 --> 00:36:42,840 and things like that, which I've done some stories like that, but you're 498 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,119 too nice for that kind of stuff. You want to keep it more slasher, 499 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,840 more axe murdery. Yeah, I get it. I just I got 500 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,199 to compartmentalize a little bit. I become like a temporary expert. Like as 501 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,920 I've been retelling you these stories today, like I've got a bunch of notes 502 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,239 in front of me, like I had to go back can read what I 503 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:06,239 wrote, because once I've turned in an episode, I want that ship out 504 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,119 of my head. It's funny that you say that, because way back in 505 00:37:09,159 --> 00:37:13,760 the day, I remember filling in for you on like doing a sword and 506 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,599 scale covering some case, and you were like, you're out of town and 507 00:37:15,639 --> 00:37:17,760 something, Hey can you just you know, look up the details of this 508 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,400 and kind of, you know, host this episode. And I remember it 509 00:37:22,519 --> 00:37:25,320 was a case that they kind of made a horror movie about called Don't Breathe, 510 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,119 where like these teenagers break into this guy's house and they go into his 511 00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:31,519 basement and then he kills them. Yeah, the famous one. Yeah. 512 00:37:31,559 --> 00:37:36,440 And then I just remember it and there's literally audio of this guy like killing 513 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,360 these teenagers in his baby. I can remember to this day. It's so 514 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:46,800 horrible. It's just one one still gives me chills, like just thinking about 515 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:52,679 that one episode that's the Castle Defense or whatever. Mm hmm, that's right, 516 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,440 stand your ground, yes, so let me do Let me do one 517 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,679 more for you guys. Yes, and this is this is one that has 518 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,840 not come out yet. I've turned it in. It's probably gonna come out 519 00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:06,320 later in the summer or something. I don't know. There's a bunch of 520 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:12,480 great episodes, so I was trying to yeah, oh yeah, this the 521 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,159 show's been plotted out. He's got a lot of really he just real quick, 522 00:38:15,199 --> 00:38:19,440 how long does it take to cover to write it? To do one 523 00:38:19,519 --> 00:38:22,400 story? I mean, it takes me. It takes me a couple months 524 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:29,119 of work, you know, probably you know, forty to sixty hours of 525 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:35,440 research before I even start outlining. You know, I will say it used 526 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,159 to take me a little bit longer because I used to when I would help 527 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,360 build the episodes out, I would do a lot of like music and things 528 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,119 like that. But the process behind the scenes has changed a little bit. 529 00:38:45,159 --> 00:38:47,639 It's a little easier to kind of submit stories without having to do a bunch 530 00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:53,119 of post production work on them. But I would say I checked, I'm 531 00:38:53,159 --> 00:38:59,760 averaging about five stories a year, which is not prolific compared to some of 532 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,760 the other people who do this work. Does that include the nightmare ones too 533 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,400 though, Yeah, yeah, that includes those, and those are a little 534 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,039 bit shorter, not as much you know, research ahead of time. Some 535 00:39:09,079 --> 00:39:13,280 of the ones with like the big trials, I have to watch every second 536 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,079 of the trial to try to see what, to me is actually important to 537 00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:21,719 the story and how to really tell it anyway, Okay, share one more, 538 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,280 one more for you guys. My goal for this story was to do 539 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:31,360 what Jaws did for the ocean. I want to do that for ride sharing 540 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:37,480 service. Oh no, oh, go on, keep in mind we have 541 00:39:37,559 --> 00:39:46,480 teenagers that take well a little bit. So this is a story from actually 542 00:39:46,519 --> 00:39:52,880 just a couple of years ago, twenty nineteen in downtown Columbia, South Carolina, 543 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:59,480 really famous bar district called Five Points, sort of like I don't know, 544 00:39:59,559 --> 00:40:01,159 Sunset of Art herself. It's just like a lot of stuff happening down 545 00:40:01,199 --> 00:40:07,000 there. And this, uh, these college girls are celebrating the end of 546 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,960 their senior year, about to you know, have the greatest time of their 547 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:15,239 life. And this girl or named Samantha Josephson, Uh, she was out 548 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,920 partying with her French She wanted her boyfriend to come and visit, but he 549 00:40:20,559 --> 00:40:22,880 was going to be visiting the following weekend. It was a long distance relationship, 550 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,280 and so he's like, I'm not gonna be able to come out tonight, 551 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,760 but you know, you should go out and have a good time with 552 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,880 your friends. And she's got a lot on her mind, some personal things 553 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:37,880 with her family, and ultimately she decides she is going to go home for 554 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:44,400 the night, and so she calls her boyfriend as she's waiting for an Uber 555 00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:47,559 and she finally sees the car they's supposed to take her home. She gets 556 00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:51,679 into the car, she's hung up with her boyfriend by now, and uh 557 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,679 on security camera, the car drives away, and this is the last time 558 00:40:54,719 --> 00:41:00,719 that this girl has ever seen again, because it turns out it was not 559 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:07,360 an Uber driver. It was a guy kind of stalking the downtown area and 560 00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:15,920 saw a confused girl and he was so excited that his car literally jumps the 561 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,880 curb as it's creening into the parking spot in front of her. But she's 562 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,679 so distracted that she just gets into the car. And he had child safety 563 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:29,599 locks that prevented her from even rolling the windows down. And I don't want 564 00:41:29,639 --> 00:41:32,000 to say what happened to her, but it not good. Let's just say 565 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:38,639 that, and this guy is so guilty, so so guilty. But the 566 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:45,280 security footage only captured the car and you could not tell who was driving the 567 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,480 car. And so bringing this all full circle to the beginning of our conversation 568 00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:55,760 today, the defense in this particular case is fascinating as they try to explain 569 00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:05,239 how somebody dressed It's like, our guy wearing his clothing took his car and 570 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,199 committed this act and brought the car back to him, and there's no way 571 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,039 that it could be our guy. And like we were saying at the beginning, 572 00:42:12,199 --> 00:42:17,440 just somebody who's so obviously guilty, forcing everybody to relive this because they 573 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:22,760 are just claiming innocence in the face of complete absurdity. So anyway, it 574 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:29,400 is fascinating story case that started to say my name law that is correct, 575 00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:35,599 that is the very one exactly what's my name is what the family of the 576 00:42:35,679 --> 00:42:38,760 victim essentially said, like before you get into a car, you just need 577 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,719 to ask what's my name and they should be able to know your name otherwise 578 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,519 it's not your driver. And they're also responsible. You'll notice now that ride 579 00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:52,920 sharing services have big light up displays of the Uber logo or the lift logo, 580 00:42:53,079 --> 00:42:58,519 and that's another part of the legislation that this family unfortunately had to try 581 00:42:58,559 --> 00:43:02,440 to bring to light. Yeah. I remember that was a horrible story. 582 00:43:04,119 --> 00:43:07,519 Right. That guy's in jail, right, Yeah, he's in jail. 583 00:43:07,639 --> 00:43:10,880 Yeah, he is in jail. But if you are not familiar with it, 584 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,760 later the summer, it'll be a sword and skill. Wow, maybe 585 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,880 look careful with this ride shares. I'm so I'm so proud of you. 586 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:25,000 I'm like, you're doing the Lord's work. Thank you. Yes, researching 587 00:43:25,079 --> 00:43:30,039 serial killers is most certainly what the Lord intended, right, And how's the 588 00:43:30,119 --> 00:43:35,320 wife. She's doing great. You know she's been she's a production accountant on 589 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,199 The Bachelor, the Bachelorette. Oh she is. Yeah, she's been doing 590 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,199 that for a long time now, so she's doing real well. We got 591 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,360 a we got a puppy about a year ago. The dogs ten weeks old, 592 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:50,599 so now she's one years old. And that has been it's like a 593 00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:53,559 Collie cattle mix. We're not exactly sure. Yeah, but she's like thirty 594 00:43:53,559 --> 00:43:58,840 five forty pounds. Her name's Tiki, and uh yeah, we still have 595 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,119 taco. So we got Tiki talk and taco. That's so cute. Yeah. 596 00:44:02,199 --> 00:44:07,840 So we've just been, you know, taking her to dog training classes 597 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,800 and there's a really cool awf Leash dog park that we go to with her 598 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,079 all the time. And that's honestly been like a bulk of my days when 599 00:44:14,119 --> 00:44:17,000 I'm not writing or working, is just just trying to keep this little one 600 00:44:17,039 --> 00:44:22,440 year old ball of energy under control. So yeah, I'm so proud of 601 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:28,000 you and I'm so happy for you. Thank you for coming, yes please 602 00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:31,679 and like come again soon and we love talking to you. Yeah, when 603 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:36,239 does the episode? Like how what's the schedule of which show episode? They're 604 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,639 They're all just kind of random. So the presumption that show drops every Tuesday, 605 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,519 and I am on air for that show as well, if you like 606 00:44:43,559 --> 00:44:46,440 the Centema voice. Also, as mentioned, the water cooler, Me and 607 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:51,320 my Boys, my Pearl digital buds. We've been doing that for over a 608 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,920 decade at this point. That's twice a week, not necessarily the same days 609 00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,719 every week, but generally like Tuesday Thursday. We do moving and things like 610 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,440 that as well. People, and then lastly, yeah, sword and Scale 611 00:45:04,599 --> 00:45:07,639 and Sword and Scale nightmares those it's pretty periodical. They're like once every two 612 00:45:07,679 --> 00:45:12,199 weeks pretty much, unless you're a Premium member and then it's every week. 613 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,039 But like I said, there's a number of mine. I have about twenty 614 00:45:15,039 --> 00:45:17,920 five stories that are out there for people to check out. And how do 615 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,119 they know if it's your story? Does it say it in like the show 616 00:45:21,159 --> 00:45:23,960 discribed? Don't? Okay, there's just no way. But wait wait if 617 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,280 you if you follow Matt on Facebook, don't you post? Yeah? Follow 618 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,800 on Twitter, I've put out from time to time. People ask me and 619 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,760 I'll tweet out like episode numbers and things like that for people who want to 620 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:37,039 hear. So I'm also on Twitter for x rather okay, Matt fondlier. 621 00:45:37,639 --> 00:45:42,920 Oh Matt, thank you so much. I love you so much and see 622 00:45:43,039 --> 00:45:45,960 this is awesome. Please come again and give my love to the wife and 623 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:51,519 I absolutely will. All right, thanks many here, guys. All right, 624 00:45:51,559 --> 00:46:00,679 everybody, thanks for listening. All right, check out. Let it ain't go