WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.759 Hey, guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to you today 2 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:06.759 about a way that you can help support the podcast. If you're not already, 3 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:10.640 we would really appreciate it if you guys went and reviewed us on Apple 4 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:15.199 or Spotify. Those reviews really help people find the podcast and help it get 5 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:18.640 recognized, and you know, if you've been enjoying the show, we really 6 00:00:18.679 --> 00:00:23.760 appreciate your support. Another thing that you can do to support the channel is 7 00:00:23.879 --> 00:00:28.719 to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that started just five 8 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:32.640 dollars a month, and when you sign up, you get access to all 9 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:36.399 of our episodes add free. That's the big bonus for that. I mean, 10 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:41.560 we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers, but this is 11 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:47.479 the biggest and best way that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if 12 00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:51.119 you'd like to, and we really appreciate that. So go and check us 13 00:00:51.119 --> 00:01:00.600 out at patreon dot com. Slash the Teamhouse, Special Operations, COBT A 14 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:10.719 SB and I The Team House with Your Hopes. Jack Murphy and David Park. 15 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:18.519 Hey guys, welcome to episode two hundred and sixty three of the Team 16 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:22.200 House. I'm Jack Murphy. Here with Dave Park and our guest on tonight's 17 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:27.040 show is Phil Campion. Phil is a former SAS operator and now he runs 18 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:30.680 Forces Radio. Has a big project going on there that we'll talk about. 19 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:34.959 He's done like seventy episodes so far. You guys will want to check it 20 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:38.239 out. But Phil, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us 21 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:42.840 this evening. Fans reven pleasure to be absolutely man. And I was saying, 22 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:46.560 it's you know, you and I worked previously, so I mean, 23 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:49.480 it's great to reconnect with you. And the last time we saw each other 24 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:53.159 in person was actually when we were both coming out of Syria. We had 25 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:57.760 had a beer and Kurdistan. So but as you said, it feels like 26 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:00.319 it was a lifetime ago. It does, but you know what, bringing 27 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:05.519 it up again now makes it feel like it was yesterday in a strange way. 28 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:08.639 You know, I just just go back and have another couple of pints. 29 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:15.520 Yeah, Phil, I'll stir it off the you know asking you you 30 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:19.159 know, the question we asked most of our guests is about sort of what 31 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:23.080 their upbringing was like and how that kind of took them towards military service. 32 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:24.319 I was wonder if you could tell us. You know how you grew up 33 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:29.560 and what that that journey was like for you. Okay, So I was 34 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:32.719 I was born in London. The rumor, the rumor goes that the doctor 35 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:38.360 slapped me mother, like do you know what I mean? Let's I got 36 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:42.479 adopted straight from birth. So I went to a family that had been vetted 37 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:45.840 supposedly to bring me up. But that family failed as well, and they 38 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:51.080 were quite violent and the and the my adopted father was extremely violent. I 39 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:54.280 mean he was. He would literally punch my head in As as young as 40 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:58.240 I can remember, I can remember violence, and I can remember being hurt 41 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:01.560 and punched. And you know, so I learned some really sort of like 42 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:06.159 early on in life. I learned some quite harsh lessons. And I always 43 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:07.360 say to people now, one of the lessons I learned very early in life 44 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:12.199 was that if you can stay calm whilst whilst all this stuff's going on around 45 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:14.199 you. And I say this because he used to sit on top of my 46 00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:16.479 chest and beat me, and if I thrashed and if I sort of like 47 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:20.759 fought back, he'd hit me even more. But if I went limp and 48 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:23.120 I remained calm, it was almost like he lost interest and he would stop 49 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:28.479 hitting me. And that that is actually we'll probably talk about a couple of 50 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:30.280 instants later on in my life. Well that has actually had to come into 51 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:32.400 play where I thought, right, hang, I'll calm down. Right now, 52 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:34.960 I can think, now, i can see, now, I can 53 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:38.039 hear. Now I'm in control. And the other thing I learned from that 54 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:40.800 was it was a tiny wind because it was like I was controlling the situation 55 00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:44.919 against this great, big man, and I was thinking to myself, well, 56 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:46.560 you know, it's not the greatest win in the world, but it 57 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:50.800 is a win. And so one of the things I've tried to bring with 58 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.240 me throughout my whole life is to always look for a positive wed as a 59 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:55.960 negative. And if you can do that, your life will be a lot 60 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:59.840 happier. So, yeah, going back to where we were, my childhood 61 00:03:59.879 --> 00:04:04.680 was pretty horrific. My adopted parents split up. My behavior at school was 62 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:10.800 atrocious, and that's probably not impacted too much by my parents. I was 63 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:13.080 just a naughty kid. I was a naughty kid. I couldn't concentrate. 64 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:15.439 I didn't like the school subjects. I didn't like being in school. I 65 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:21.199 would much rather be out playing soccer or climbing trees or fighting with somebody. 66 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:29.800 So my behavior was appalling. So eventually, eventually I ended up in a 67 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:35.920 children's home about the age of twelve years old, where they controlled my schooling 68 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:39.839 and they controlled this, that and the other. But it was there that 69 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:44.600 I got exposed to predatory pedophiles. And it took me a long time in 70 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:47.040 my life to talk about that, and I held it in for years and 71 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:49.480 years and years. It all came out a few years ago when I was 72 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:54.480 deciding to write another book. Anyway, I was, you know, I 73 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:59.639 was groomed by these people to the point that it became very uncomfortable. And 74 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:04.199 when I think back at it now, when I joined the army, and 75 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:09.000 I did join the Army almost from the children's home as soon as I could, 76 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:12.759 I had I couldn't join at sixteen because I had some violent crime which 77 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:15.160 which stopped me from joining. But as soon as I was eighteen, I 78 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:17.279 joined up and it was actually the first time of my life I actually felt 79 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:20.160 safe. Wow, And that it's a bit strange, but you know, 80 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:25.519 when I went through that camp gate, I realized that nobody, especially not 81 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:29.480 these these adults who've been sort of like wrecking my life on the outside. 82 00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:30.680 They can't they can get me being on the camp, you know. I 83 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:33.399 mean they didn't have an ID card, they couldn't. They couldn't come on 84 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:36.360 that camp. And I did actually feel safe. I felt safe once I 85 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:40.480 joined the well as I joined the forces. So yeah, but yeah, 86 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:44.360 the question was about my childhood, Yeah it was. It wasn't a great 87 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:50.199 childhood. I've drawn so many positive lessons from being a child that I think 88 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:56.160 it probably gave me the foundation to deal with with a lot of the stuff 89 00:05:56.199 --> 00:06:00.000 that I've dealt with in my life since, you know, dealing with hardship 90 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:03.639 to me as a child has teed me up to be able to deal with 91 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:08.680 hardship as an adult. As it were, it sounds like the British military 92 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:14.279 was absolutely a much needed escape for you from a really terrible upbringing. Yeah. 93 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:15.319 Absolutely, And I think it would have been that or it would have 94 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:18.680 been prison, because yeah, the road I was going down, I was 95 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:20.839 going to be violent, I was going to be loud, I was going 96 00:06:20.839 --> 00:06:25.759 to be poorly behaved, and the army sort of like put a put a 97 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:29.319 cocoon around that as well. The Army is sort of like they didn't completely 98 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:31.399 stop my behavior because I still far quite a bit of trouble when I was 99 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:34.839 in the army, but it kept on the straight and now long enough that 100 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:41.879 I didn't get a serious criminal record for violent violent crime. Did you when 101 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:45.240 when did you start thinking about the military, And did you go to the 102 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:48.839 military because you wanted to be in the military because you thought the military, 103 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:51.279 you know, it would be cool? Or did you go to the military 104 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:57.480 only because it was like a way out? No? Right, So I 105 00:06:57.519 --> 00:06:59.839 went on one of the one of the schools I went to, we had 106 00:06:59.879 --> 00:07:01.920 like an army cadet thing going on at CCF. They call it a Good 107 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:05.480 Wilds Cadet Force. And I had a little bit of exposure to the military 108 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:10.560 there. And anyway, when I left the children's on I left early and 109 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:14.199 it was to be part of this scheme called the YTF, which YTS, 110 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:16.800 which was the Youth Training Scheme. It was a government thing whereby you had 111 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:21.240 to you had to work for your for your dole money basically so you could 112 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:25.319 join this thing. And I got a job as a skiing instructor. Ridiculous, 113 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:28.279 it was like unheard of. I've got a job as a skiing instructor 114 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:32.079 on a dry slope and as a maintenance man on the skis and teaching skiing. 115 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:36.040 So I was there for two years and I thought, no, no, 116 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:39.279 I've definitely got a job. And at the end of it I went 117 00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:41.800 in to see the boss and he was an ex admiral from the Navy, 118 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:44.439 and he looked at me and he said, we really posh man, and 119 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:47.600 he's a yeah and they speak his own body or plans in life campion, 120 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:51.240 and I said, well are we working here? When I said this is 121 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:54.439 this is I've got a nice joint. No no, no, no, 122 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:57.079 no, no no, you won't be staying here. You've got no qualifications 123 00:07:57.199 --> 00:08:01.720 or not what we're looking for years. But now it's time you need to 124 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:03.160 go and find something on your own feet. And I was I looked at 125 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:07.519 him as if to say, Jesus, I didn't expect that coming, and 126 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:09.759 he looked at me and it really hard, and he went, have you 127 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:13.000 ever thought about joining the army? Well, I've just fought right there, 128 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:15.879 that's where I'm going. I'll think about it right now. And I went, 129 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:18.040 yes, yes, of course I have, I said, and looking 130 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:20.360 back on it, when I've been in the CCF, that had been the 131 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:24.839 only time I'd ever been happy in school, and that was because it was 132 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.759 you know, once you had that green uniform on, you were all the 133 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:30.199 same. And I thought, no, no, I enjoyed that. So 134 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.279 I said to him yes, and he literally he picked the phone straight up 135 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:35.399 and phoned the careers office and was like, I've got a young man here. 136 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:37.679 He'll be coming down this afternoon. You need to test him and then 137 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:46.799 get him out from nder my feet as because I can cheers boss. Oh 138 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:48.399 yeah, that was it. That literally I went to the Queer's office. 139 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:52.879 There was a big old Guards bloke behind the thing and he's like, at 140 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:56.720 first I'd only ever heard of really the parachute regiment and this big guards when 141 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:00.200 he said, like, Sonny, he says, what do you want to 142 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:03.440 joining army? Said, yes, what do you want to do? I 143 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:05.720 said, I want to be a paratrooper? Said you want to be a 144 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:07.519 guards when he said you want to you want to drill and salute the queen 145 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:11.960 and I don't I want to do that. Anyway, they did all the 146 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:13.480 tests on me, and it's at the end of those tests they say what 147 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:18.879 you're what you're sort of like clever enough to be basically and mine set infantry, 148 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:26.360 infantry, infantry, infantry, and that was it. It was then 149 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:28.039 I said to them, I asked them, I said, what's the quickest 150 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:31.039 I can be in? And they said, well, if you join your 151 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:33.840 county regiment, which was the Royal Hampshire Regiment. He said, if you 152 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.519 join them, he said, we can literally have you at the traps and 153 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:41.320 through the door in about six weeks time. I was like, right now 154 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:43.679 side the parachute regiment, I'm going there. Do you know what I mean? 155 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.720 I'll have that, I'll have some of that. So I literally six 156 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:50.000 weeks later, I've done all the tests. I've been up to a place 157 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:52.039 called Sutton Coalfield. I'd have my teeth pulled, I'd be I'd have me 158 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:54.879 nuts in someone's hand, and they've done the coffin tickle and you know all 159 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:58.840 the medical stuff. And before you knew, I was on the bus and 160 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:01.159 I was I was going off from training, you know what I mean? 161 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:05.440 And I was tough to pieces with it. Did are you are you tall? 162 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:09.759 I'm asking because he mentioned the Queen's Guarden and I wonder if there's there's 163 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:11.759 a hate thing. Oh no, no, no, no, I'm sort 164 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:13.399 of I don't know five ft ten in the fact, but I suppose, 165 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:18.120 you know, I mean, I think he just he was a guardsman and 166 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:20.639 couldn't see anybody else be anything but a guardsman. He was barking. He 167 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:24.039 was like, oh gods mean, no, no, no, I don't 168 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:28.360 want to be that. Yeah, okay, I don't stand outside the Queen's 169 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:30.840 house. That's not fun for me. You know, it doesn't seem fun 170 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:33.039 at all. Yeah. I mean a lot of prestige, Yeah, a 171 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:37.440 lot of pre It's it's sort of like being an honor guard. Yeah, 172 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.399 yeah, I mean to be fair, right, and I'm not going to 173 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:45.600 knock the guards. But together guards do have an infantry side to their life. 174 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:48.399 You know, they have a parachute. They have a parachute patoon as 175 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:52.600 well, so they do some tremendous soldiering. But my only image of guardsmen 176 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:56.200 at that time was them in their red tunics with their great big hats on, 177 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:00.679 stood outside of the park castle with people looking. And I thought, 178 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:01.679 no, no, that's not a bit of me. That's not you know, 179 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:03.840 I want to be running around. I want to be poking people like 180 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:07.759 you. I do not want to be stood outside like that. I want 181 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:09.960 to be in the field, covered in the shooting at things and rolling about 182 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:13.759 and maybe having a fight with someone like that's what I wanted. Yeah, 183 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:16.559 so tell us about you know, your inducked into into the military and the 184 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.879 infantry life. So yeah, I went. I went to I went to 185 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.840 Depot Litchfield, which had like I think there was eight different infantry battalions. 186 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.720 That was the adult training station for them. I started basic training and I 187 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:33.600 loved it everything to do with it, whether's square bashing, the making your 188 00:11:33.639 --> 00:11:37.799 bed, I just loved it. I just loved being pitching in getting involved. 189 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:41.519 And I'll say this to young people now. I was fit then because 190 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:43.799 I just spent two years skiing and I was, you know, I was 191 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:46.360 I don't know what you're measuring over there, but I was. I was 192 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:50.080 light, do you know what I mean. I was sort of like eighty 193 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:52.240 kilos wet through like do you know what I mean? And that was light 194 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:54.279 then for me, do you know what I mean? So I was absolutely 195 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:56.360 I loved it, and I was fit as a butcher's dog as well, 196 00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:58.559 do you know what I mean? I could run all day. So you 197 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:01.000 know, you'd get some lads there when they said, right, we're going 198 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:05.159 out to do some fitness today. They'd be dreading it. I'd absolutely love 199 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:07.000 it. I'd be right, Yeah, come on, let's go get your 200 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:07.919 kids on. Give me a log if you like. I don't care. 201 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:11.559 I loved it. So yeah, training was put And the other thing was 202 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:16.600 I was learning something every day and something that I enjoyed and could see the 203 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:18.799 value of. Do you know what I mean? When they were teaching me 204 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:20.240 about weapons, I thought, well, if I need my weapon one day, 205 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:24.759 I better learn this lesson. So I implied myself. Whereas you know, 206 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:26.919 in school, as you taught me about maths, I'd be like, 207 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:28.279 where the bloody hell am I going to use this rubbish? You know what 208 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:31.200 I mean? I don't need to know that multiplication and now am I going 209 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:35.399 to use that? But here I could actually see I'm going to pick this 210 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:37.480 weapon up. I'm going to learn how to use I'm gonna learn how to 211 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:39.320 trip it down, I'm going to learn how to clean it, and I'm 212 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:41.639 gonna learn everything I can. I'm going to be the best I can with 213 00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:43.720 that weapon because one day it might save my life. Yeah, you know 214 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:46.159 what I mean? There was purpose for what I was doing. Do you 215 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:48.799 know what I mean, and I enjoyed it. And I remember, even 216 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.360 in the early days, I remember someone saying to me, if you find 217 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.519 a job that you enjoy, you'll never ever go to work. And if 218 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:56.639 this for me wasn't work. I enjoyed it. It was fun. I 219 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:00.320 loved it. You know, we were doing we were doing calls up all 220 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:05.480 the time, and I loved it. So it took about six months, 221 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:07.679 I suppose, before you were trained and we'll get off going to get sent 222 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:13.320 and deployed out to your battalion as it was. And in that time, 223 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:16.240 you've done everything you needed to do. Your fitness was up. You know, 224 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.799 all your shooting tests have been passed, You've been on a few exercises, 225 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:26.799 and I remember, I've got best improved recruit because you haven't passed out 226 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:28.639 parade at the end, and I've got best improved recruit. And I remember 227 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:31.039 it was only about a year ago. Somebody turned around and me and they 228 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:33.679 said, you do know, the best improved recroup means you was an absolute 229 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:41.480 idiot when you turned out. I love it. I love that, Phil 230 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:45.200 Well, I want want to continue, but I got to do it. 231 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:48.360 Ad read real quick. Yeah, this is an important issue too. All 232 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:52.759 right, So real talk, fifty two percent of men over forty experienced some 233 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:58.360 form of ED. That's a rectile dysfunction folks between the edges of forty and 234 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:03.759 seventy. But it's always been a taboo topic. Thankfully, Hymns is changing 235 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:09.679 that by providing affordable access to ED treatment all online. So you know you're 236 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:11.799 confident in the office, at the dinner table, and even on the dance 237 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:16.480 floor, but can you keep it going when you get back to the bedroom. 238 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.879 With HYMS, you can get access to medications to ensure your erectile dysfunction 239 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:24.720 gets treated, so you can keep confidence going all day and all night. 240 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:30.039 So if you want to have better sex but a rectile dysfunction is getting in 241 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:33.960 the way. If you are, you're not alone. Millions of men deal 242 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:37.519 with the hardships of our ED. But with HYMNS, there's a simpler, 243 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:41.080 affordable way to get treatment for ED, so you can get your groove back 244 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:46.919 in the bedroom at a cost that you desire. Now, you can start 245 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:52.799 your free online visit today at hyms dot com slash teamhouse. That's hims dot 246 00:14:52.919 --> 00:15:00.279 com slash teamhouse for your personalized ED treatment options. Hyms dot com slash team 247 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:05.120 house, and I have to note prescriptions require an online call consultation with a 248 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:11.120 healthcare provider who will determine if appropriate restrictions apply. See website for details and 249 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:16.600 important safety information. Subscription required price ferries based on product and subscription plan. 250 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:24.679 That's it. Go check them out, appreciate it felt If you're gonna jump 251 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:31.120 back in after that, amazing live read to your own story. Okay, 252 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:37.600 a little bit of a boner just thinking about it, right, yeah, 253 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:41.799 yeah, right, yeah, So jumping in, where were we were? 254 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:46.840 You graduate? You're passing out ceremony best improved recruit of the first improved the 255 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:48.480 crew. I've told you what that means now. And I went to my 256 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:52.759 unit and they were based in Tidworth, which is in the south of England. 257 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:56.440 It wasn't too far from where you know, family and friends were. 258 00:15:56.519 --> 00:15:58.919 If I had family and friends, what didn't But most people in that you 259 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:02.919 and it did have family from around. It was a Royal Hampshire regiment, 260 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:06.279 so it was a county regiment and we were based sort of on the border 261 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:08.480 of Hampshire as it were, So most lads there came from portsmand Fall, 262 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:12.559 Southampton and had family down that way and it was in those days there wasn't 263 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:15.600 loads going on, but they'd just come back from a tour of Northern Ireland, 264 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:21.480 so they'd just done six months in a place called South Armah, and 265 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:23.440 so it was a funny time to join because they were all sort of like 266 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:26.720 they'd all been bashing through the fields and they had a couple of small incidents 267 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.840 against the IRA, so they'd all sort of like cut their teeth on their 268 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.200 first major operation. And then I turn up and it's like, oh, 269 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:36.399 yeah, he'll do that, he'll do that, he'll do that. You 270 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:37.320 know, it was like, yeah, it was. It was a rumbling 271 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:41.720 experience because you go from sort of being the top of the pile. You 272 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:44.559 know, when you pass out from the depot, your platoon is the best 273 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:47.320 platoon and then you know, and then all of a sudden bumped you at 274 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:48.480 the bottom of the part again, and it's quite wake up cool. And 275 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:55.759 I remember the first ever operation I did was an operation the fiber Goade went 276 00:16:55.799 --> 00:17:00.759 on strike and we got called up to man these old fire engines and go 277 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:04.279 down the whales and these fire engines and these fire engines were horrendous. They 278 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:08.920 were like they would muster about ten fifteen miles an hour, and that was 279 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:11.400 downhill. Do you know what I mean, empty You know what I mean, 280 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:14.839 stick stick, ten blokes on it, fill it up with water to 281 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:17.559 do about five miles an hour, and that was it at bust. So 282 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.640 we went down there and I remember we didn't get called out at all. 283 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:23.319 We didn't get We just saw like that every time we went to get called 284 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:26.119 out, the fire would go to miraculously beat us there and put the fire 285 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:30.160 out. So this one time we got called out and it was to a 286 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:34.640 horse that was on the mudflats in this little bay that they had, and 287 00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:37.119 there was someone the phone up, so there's a horse in the mudflag can 288 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:41.240 we get? Can we get down there and get this horse? So we 289 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:42.759 all jump on the back of this fire engine. As two of us go 290 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:45.759 down there, we got overtaken by push bikes on the way down there, 291 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:51.400 like it was completely embarrassing. And we got there and I think all you 292 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:53.920 can see after this horse was its two nostrils that were still poking out the 293 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.759 water, but they were still moving slightly, and there's all these people going 294 00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:59.759 go and get the horse, and we're like, what we supposed to do 295 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:02.720 with that? You know, we dragged the rope out, but by the 296 00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:06.720 time we got the rope to the horse it had gone. It was there's 297 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:08.240 no horse there anymore. But it's completely gone under. So we're like, 298 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:12.920 right, we'll sack that. We went back to the old We went back 299 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:15.039 to the firrns and we're like that right, there's no horse, lads, 300 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.480 right, let's go. So we went back to finging. Anyway, I 301 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.920 tell you that story, not because you know it's any other reason. About 302 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:27.720 a month later we had this We had this parade through the streets of Winchester 303 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:30.960 and it was called a freedom parade and you get handled the freedom of the 304 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:36.079 town of Winchester. And Princess Diana was coming to this parade. All right, 305 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:41.039 So we've done this parade in uh in Hampshire. We've marched up and 306 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:42.240 down, and afterwards she said, look, I'd like to meet some of 307 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:45.039 the soldiers. So we've all been asked into the town hall and we stood 308 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:48.680 there and you're supposed to be at there, and the CEO brings her around 309 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:52.839 and if she stops you have to talk to her. So she stops by 310 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:56.319 me and oh, yeah, i'm private camp and hello, marm how are 311 00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:00.960 you. Oh, tell us about your firefighting experience down in down in Wales, 312 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.880 She says, So I'll recount the story of the horse. I mean, 313 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:07.079 you can see the CEO stood behind him. He's boiling, his heads 314 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:11.079 gone red. The r s M stood there, he's steaming off as well. 315 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:17.720 They're living that. I've told her this story is. But anyway, 316 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:19.839 when I get back to camp, okay, I'll get CAMPO get up here. 317 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.400 So I get called in and I have to go to the guard and 318 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:26.920 yeah, I got, I got. But the CEO says to me, 319 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:29.079 he says, why did you tell her that story? I said, well, 320 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:33.200 what story? That said? The only story I had to stand there 321 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:34.440 and lives and a woman that was great. Yeah, we put out fire 322 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.759 as their front center. I said, well we didn't. I said, 323 00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:38.880 we didn't do anything of the thought. I said, we went to rescue 324 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:41.400 a horse. We didn't even get that right. Yeah, And I didn't 325 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:45.119 like it, but there you go. That was that horse's name? Was 326 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:52.680 it? That horse's name wasn't Arttacks by any chance, was it? Yeah? 327 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.559 Read yeah, So that was it. So that was my first ever 328 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.160 operation in the army. That was all like, that was my and I 329 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.039 came back and I actually felt quite shuffed about that because at least I've been 330 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.839 out the door on something like right. And then it was about six months 331 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:08.519 later, I think we got deployed over to Northern Ireland for the first time 332 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:12.799 and I did a two year tour of Londonderry. So yeah, that was 333 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:17.440 where I really now you had to switch on. This wasn't you know. 334 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:22.119 This wasn't rolling about the hoses and putting fires out. This was this was 335 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:23.839 this was proper. This was like, you know, there was people over 336 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:27.599 there wanted you dead and were prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to try and 337 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:30.799 help you get there, like you know what I mean. So yeah, 338 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.200 that was That was my first real operational experience with Northern Island. Well, 339 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.039 well, can you tell us what year that was and sort of like what 340 00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:41.839 this situation was like, you know, politically or from your point of view 341 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.400 militarily, Okay, so listen, I'm gonna be honest with you, right. 342 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.720 I never massively it was nineteen eighty nine. By the way, I 343 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:53.640 never massively got into the politics of it, purely because I thought you needed 344 00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:57.640 to take a balance perspective from both sides to understand what was going on. 345 00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:02.240 So I read loads of books before I went out. There are loads of 346 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:06.559 books on both sides of how this fing had manifested itself and why there was 347 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:08.720 so much trouble out there, And in a nutshell, the thing had been 348 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.160 going on for years and years and years. You know. The English had 349 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:14.720 been over to Ireland. They've been you know, they've done some They've done 350 00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:15.960 some poor things down in the South. I'm going to tell you right. 351 00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:25.680 So it wasn't all as it might seem. So basically I understood when I 352 00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:30.319 went out there on both sides of the of the of the argument, how 353 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:32.359 things worked. Like do you know what I mean? Now, I'm not 354 00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.640 ever going to condone terrorism, because it's wrong and it is wrong, But 355 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:38.160 there was terrorists on both sides of the wire over there, and both of 356 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:41.839 them, from my perspective, would be treated with the same contempt. I 357 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:44.680 had no time for either of them, Like do you know what I mean, 358 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:45.880 There's there's no there's no beating around the bush for that, do you 359 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:48.759 know what I mean? But the same reason that you know the same thing, 360 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:52.880 if you supported either of these terrorist groups, well then I'm afraid I 361 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:55.680 lump you in on the same category, do you know what I mean? 362 00:21:55.759 --> 00:22:00.839 So if you it's basically Protestant or nationalist. You know, if you if 363 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:04.559 you decided that you were going to back a Protestant terrorist organization, well I 364 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:07.799 don't want to know about you, the same as I don't want to know 365 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:11.920 about anybody who wants to back a Catholic organization terrorist organization either, do you 366 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:15.240 know what I mean? So? Yeah, I pretty I had a balance, 367 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.920 a pretty balanced understanding of what was going on out there, to the 368 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.680 point that I actually openly have said before that if I had been a young 369 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:25.640 man growing up on some of these estate so I might have leaned one way 370 00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:26.319 or the other, do you know what I mean? I can't say that 371 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:30.559 I wouldn't have got involved in terrorism myself, because you know, when you 372 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:34.759 get pressed into a corner sometimes it is the only way. So, you 373 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:38.279 know, as wrong as it is, I've never got everything right in my 374 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:40.920 life, do you know what I mean? And I think if you'd have 375 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:42.640 come into my house in a state where I lived as a kid, and 376 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:45.720 you'd have you know, you'd have been sort of like an unwanted presence, 377 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.599 and you know, there'd have been enough peer group pressure from the rest of 378 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.000 the councilor state to get involved. I would have got involved, you know 379 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:53.799 what I mean, because that's that's almost a natural thing to do, isn't 380 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:57.200 it. So yeah, I probably didn't think the way is a lot of 381 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:02.480 soldiers do. Which was you know, obviously you know one sided. You 382 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:03.119 know, we're this side, you all that side? No, no, 383 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:07.599 no, no, no, no no. I tried to pick out every 384 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:11.160 level of the argument, and like I said, I have no time for 385 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:15.680 anybody who wants to try and settle arguments or scores by using means of terrorism. 386 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.039 I've got no time for it, do you know what I mean? 387 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:19.920 You can all have the red carpet treatment for me as far as I'm concerned, 388 00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:22.799 you know what I mean. And I'm better off. This planet's better 389 00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:23.880 off without you, to be honest, you know what I mean. Yeah, 390 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:30.640 And what was your you know, personal experience like over there patrolling or 391 00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:36.160 doing essentially counterinsurgency work, right, Yeah, So we spent a lot of 392 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:37.440 time, a lot of time in the first couple of years I was there. 393 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:41.880 I was a in an normal rifle company, and we spent a lot 394 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:47.200 of time patrolling, reacting to incidents. There wasn't loads and loads of incidents. 395 00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:48.039 I mean, in the time I was there, in two years, 396 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:55.000 I probably got blown up once and it was in the vicinity of a shooting 397 00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:56.119 maybe twice, do you know what I mean? But I never actually got 398 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:00.279 shot at. So you know, it's not like you're back in the Afghanistans 399 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:03.240 where it's kinetic, it's full on, it's fighting all the time. I 400 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:08.000 mean, the IRA once said a very a very true thing to say. 401 00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:11.440 They said, you know, the British soldiers have got to be have got 402 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:12.559 to be lucky all the time. We've only got to be lucky once, 403 00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:15.240 do you know what I mean? And that was very true, you know 404 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.559 that was I think it was Martin McGinnis said that, and it was true. 405 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.319 You know, you had to you had to pound those streets, you 406 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:25.880 had to patrol them, you know, for long periods of time, all 407 00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:29.160 around the clock, every day of the year, and you had to you 408 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:30.039 had to mind what you did, you know what I mean, Because if 409 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:33.839 you set patterns, if you presented yourself as a target, or if somebody 410 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:36.720 thought they could take you on, they would take you on, do you 411 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:37.880 know what I mean. So you had to you had to, you had 412 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.119 to write, you had to ride it the whole time you were there, 413 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.039 do you know what I mean? So I'm probably sure and you would never 414 00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:48.240 notice figures on this for a fact, But you know, the way that 415 00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:51.680 we did things and and the and the way that we switched on probably saved 416 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:52.880 our lives more than we will ever understand, you know what I mean. 417 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:56.640 So, I mean two years is a pretty long pump too. I mean, 418 00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:00.839 so by the time you're out of there at ninety rotations, so you 419 00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:03.799 did I mean you did six six I think you did something like six weeks 420 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:07.839 on guard, which was absolutely monotonous. It was brain crushing. It was 421 00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:11.559 like you were in those towers, you were looking out, you were doing 422 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:15.000 rotations of four on, four off. So you do about six weeks of 423 00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:17.720 that, and then you do what was called a water side tour, which 424 00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:22.359 was like a patrolling tour but of a of a softer area, and then 425 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:23.720 you'd go into a city tour for six weeks, so they were sort of 426 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:26.119 like sitting and then you have you'd have about four or five weeks off, 427 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.359 so they were sort of like six week cycles. And the reason you only 428 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:33.640 got four or five weeks off because either end of that time off you did 429 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:36.160 a bit of train into top ups in case there was skill fade and all 430 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:37.720 that sort of stuff. So it was, yeah, it was. It 431 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:40.960 was full on. It was two years, and that two years went by 432 00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:41.880 boom, you know what I mean, It was gone. It was it 433 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.119 was quick, and like I say, you spent a lot of time having 434 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:51.160 to switch on when you know they did. They were difficult times. And 435 00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:53.799 I'd say when when something did happen, you could end up on the ground 436 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:57.440 for you know, forty eight hours without coming in, you know, and 437 00:25:57.559 --> 00:26:00.319 that would be that would be tough. You know. I used to be 438 00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:00.960 absolutely hanging out out there, do you know what I mean? It was 439 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:03.680 it was our work. And at the same time, I mean, you 440 00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:07.559 are cutting your teeth. You're getting a lot of experience as a soldier, 441 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:15.319 presumably making what corporal and then sergeant No, right, so Jesus got I 442 00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:18.240 probably made lance corporal body. End of that fact, I don't even think 443 00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:22.279 I made lance corporal body under that tour. I probably onto my carda to 444 00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:25.920 get the lance corporal, but didn't get my lance corbold. I don't think 445 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:29.160 by the end of that tour Now I wasn't getting promoted anytime soon, because 446 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:30.640 every time they gave me more than five minutes off, I wouldn't had a 447 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:33.960 fight in the pubb or something like that. I was an absolute nightmare. 448 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:37.440 I couldn't keep myself out of trouble for more than five minutes. I mean, 449 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:40.720 I did twenty one days in the Nick over there for a fight, 450 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:44.039 I'd add in a bar in Auburn Island itself. Do you know what I 451 00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:47.039 mean? I've got twenty one days being a good friend of mine, Hammy, 452 00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:51.160 who's actually he's actually involved with this with me. Now he's keeping friends. 453 00:26:51.319 --> 00:26:53.119 You'll never amount to nothing. They said, that's what I said, 454 00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:59.000 you know, oh yeah, yeah, we got twenty one days. And 455 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.279 I remember they locked it up with twenty one days. But locking locking up 456 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:04.240 in the military Nick, they tried to make an example of us, so 457 00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:07.640 they gave us. They gave us like loads of fitness to do. We'd 458 00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.640 pull this fire cart around the camp and we were always on display being beasted 459 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:11.920 like. I mean, I loved that. I was like, yeah, 460 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:15.359 I'm fine, I'm happy with that. I mean, I was fit as 461 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.440 a butcher's doglan. I really was proper fit so none of that bothered me 462 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:19.039 whatsoever. Do you know what I mean, I'll say, right, yeah, 463 00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:22.200 just just keep it coming fellas, do you know what I mean? 464 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:25.920 I'm all right with that. Twenty one days in Nick, I'll come out. 465 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:26.799 I'll come out even fit them. What I went in, I thought 466 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:32.119 it was great. So what was what was the next step for you after 467 00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:36.519 Northern Ireland back to the UK? I literally in the time I was in 468 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:40.920 so you did you did the odd exercise overseas? I mean we did Kenya. 469 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.079 That was quite good fun. We did Denmark, but we didn't really 470 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:47.799 do anything other than if you weren't in Northern Ireland, you were getting ready 471 00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:49.079 to go to Northern Ireland. It was really was like that, you know, 472 00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:52.400 it's you know, in the first ten years I was in the military, 473 00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:57.400 I spent five of them in Northern Ireland, at least probably six, 474 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:02.680 So it was like it was just it was Northern Ireland all the time. 475 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:07.759 And I say, you did the odd overseas exercise Kenya, Kenya springs to 476 00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:10.000 mind. That was I mean that it was fun, but you only did 477 00:28:10.119 --> 00:28:11.319 you only did six or eight weeks out there, do you know what I 478 00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:15.680 mean? It was Yeah, it was, it was, It wasn't. 479 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:18.640 It probably wasn't the best time to be there because because of this Northern Ireland 480 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:21.640 thing going on all the time. Do you know what I mean? If 481 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:23.079 you were lucky, you might get to Bosniar, you might get you know, 482 00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:26.720 later on in sort of like that. Ten years I was in the 483 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:32.200 Green Army, but it wasn't. It wasn't the Iraq and Afghanistan era. 484 00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:34.200 And even now, I mean, they're running around all over the world, 485 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:36.799 aren't they, do you know what I mean? But it's yeah, it 486 00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:38.680 wasn't that when I was in it was it was Northern Ireland, or it 487 00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:41.440 was Northern Ireland, really, do you know what I mean? And that 488 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:45.160 was one of the reasons I decided to go Special Forces, because you know, 489 00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:49.079 in my time Golf War one, you know, I was in Northern 490 00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:52.319 Ireland. During Golf War one, I sat watching all these all these all 491 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.920 these people going to war, and I sat, I sat in Northern Ireland 492 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.599 with me with me fun uppy obvious. Do you know what I mean? 493 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:00.880 I'm not. I don't want to I want to go to war, you 494 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.680 know. And then I read all the books that came out after Gold War 495 00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:08.200 One, you know Andy mcnoun's Bravo to zero, Chris Ryan's the one that 496 00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:11.359 got away, And I'm thinking out, I mean, these people are doing 497 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:15.440 some proper work here, yeah, And I'm still you know, I did 498 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.799 some decent jobs in Norburne Island. I did a couple of long aired jobs 499 00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:21.400 over there where we used to hide in bushes and take photos and all that 500 00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:23.960 sort of stuff. But it still wasn't the Special Forces. It wasn't. 501 00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:27.319 It wasn't you know, doing what these other guys were doing, which was 502 00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:30.400 you know, actually getting involved, getting your hands done. And I wuldn't 503 00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:33.960 getting out and putting a few people flat pack and a few people like do 504 00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:37.880 you know what I mean? So go ahead. So I just I wanted 505 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:44.759 to ask because nineteen eighty nine, like it's it's late. It's laid into 506 00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:48.559 the troubles, right, It's it's been going on for decades now. And 507 00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:55.160 you know, so you had like the IRA and the what UVF and uyah 508 00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:57.319 and who and all of them, But then you also had like these loyal 509 00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:03.000 to loyalist groups. It's a UVF loyalist, so you've got the okay, 510 00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:07.000 yeah, depends. There was loads and them on the other side as well, 511 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:08.920 do you know what I mean? Yeah, and then you also had 512 00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:15.119 like the like anarchists, like you know, just people coming in to stir 513 00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.599 shit up. I guess how like what was your rule? What was when 514 00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:22.480 you went over there? You know? I think that the image, at 515 00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:26.559 least in American minds, if we're not really well read on that on that 516 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:27.920 era, it's like, Okay, you're going over there to stop the ra 517 00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:33.160 but are you are you basically trying to keep peace amongst them all? Was? 518 00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.200 It was very much a peacekeeping thing. There was no you weren't going 519 00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:38.640 over there to go after the IRA. You were going over there to keep 520 00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:44.680 two communities at bay and from each other's throats basically. And don't forget when 521 00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:47.400 they first went out there, when they very very first went out there there 522 00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:51.799 what was called the honeymoon period, where the Catholic community absolutely way welcomed the 523 00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:55.720 troops because you know, they were keeping they were keeping the other side at 524 00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:57.319 babe, you know, and they were actually sort of like, right, 525 00:30:57.559 --> 00:31:00.240 let something's going to get done. Well, nothing did get done, and 526 00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:03.519 things turned sour and it came the other way. So, yeah, it 527 00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.799 was very much a peacekeeping thing. It was very much, you know, 528 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:11.480 patrolling the streets, trying to avoid normal folks from getting sucked into something that 529 00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:12.640 they didn't want to be sucked into it. I'll tell you for now. 530 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:17.119 You know, if you walked around those estates, you would probably find you 531 00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:19.079 know, say, for instance, some of the women might might spit at 532 00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:22.680 you or you know, call you a name or something like that. But 533 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.839 they would have to do that because if they were seen doing anything else once 534 00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:27.880 you weren't there, somebody'd be pulling her air, setting her on fire, 535 00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:32.079 beating her up, do you know what I mean? So that you knew, 536 00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:33.839 you knew what the score was deep down, you knew who the gumbags 537 00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:37.759 were, you knew where they lived. You just weren't allowed to do anything 538 00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:40.319 about them unless you caught the red hand. And that was always a difficult 539 00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:42.119 bit for us, catching the red handed. But you know, when they 540 00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:48.519 went back I did chuckle because when they went back to all these historical cases 541 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:51.279 and they've tried to do people who've shot people and all that sort of stuff, 542 00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:52.200 and they said, well, you know, we're going to arrest all 543 00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:56.200 these people for historical crimes. In essence, you could arrest me for attempted 544 00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:02.079 murder because I did try me hard this I just never got nobody. So 545 00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:07.880 Phil, tell us about uh, you know, you mentioned how special Forces 546 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:12.880 came into your mind. Talk to us about like when you made that decision 547 00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:16.119 to go to selection and how that all came about. Okay, so right, 548 00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:19.359 it is a bit of a story. Is everything is with me? 549 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:22.960 So I've seen the Special Forces. They had company on a trip we did 550 00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:25.839 to Kenya, so they've been to the jungle with us and they ran there, 551 00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:29.200 the two of them there ran a small school and that was when I 552 00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:31.920 first saw them cutting about different weapons, different gear, and I thought, 553 00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:35.720 yeah, that's a that's a bit of meter is. And then we saw 554 00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:37.839 them in Northern Ireland. So the job I was doing was called cop close 555 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:42.720 Observation batoons and they were trained by used to have a couple of sas guys 556 00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:45.839 on the course training you to do that. And they were really good guys 557 00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:46.680 and you can see they knew what they were doing and they you know, 558 00:32:46.759 --> 00:32:50.960 they they had all the gear, they had long hair, they just you 559 00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:52.599 know, they just reeked of being professional. And you looked at them and 560 00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:54.160 you thought, I want to be like that, do you know? What 561 00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:59.480 I mean. Anyway, I did Peak Company. I've done my command of 562 00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:01.279 course, and I did PEA Company, which is the Parachute Regiment's course. 563 00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:07.839 And I went behind my commanding officers back and I asked the brigade commander if 564 00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:10.119 I could join Free Para, who were based in Dover. Now that's sort 565 00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:15.960 of like unheard of, you don't I'm supposed to ask my platoon sergeant Loans, 566 00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:17.680 do you know what I mean? And I've gone completely above everybody in 567 00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:21.799 my unit and gone to the brigade commander, a guy called Johnny Holmes, 568 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:24.400 Brigadier Johnny Holmes. Well. I picked up the phone to Johnny when I 569 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:27.559 was on duty one day and I said, Johnny, can I go to 570 00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:29.519 the Well? I didn't say, Johnny. I said, Sir, it's 571 00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:32.440 Lance Corporal Champion here from the from the second Battalion, the Princess of Wales's 572 00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:36.640 Royal Regiment, and I'd like to join the Parachute Regiment. And he's sort 573 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:40.039 of like he got he said what I went. He went, last corporal, 574 00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:43.000 last corps. Who was it the Champion? I don't want to do 575 00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:45.599 Yes, yes, yes, yes, I can sort that out with and 576 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:50.319 he hung up and about two seconds later, as I'm walking back to the 577 00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:54.039 guard room, I can hear Campion, Champion, Champion, Kere Campion. 578 00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:59.119 I've got it's the RSM. He's the brigade Commander's got off the phone to 579 00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:00.480 me. He must have gone, I'm cheeky. Its just thhrowed me up. 580 00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:05.079 I funded up last he stuck it down at the door on Ara. 581 00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:08.800 Sam Campion's causing trouble with the brigade commander. I'm in the ship now, 582 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:13.440 I'm proper in the ship. I'll get come back. They are as Sam 583 00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:15.920 yelling at me. The Adjudant's yelling at me, and they go, right, 584 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:17.639 you've got to go in and see the CEO, and I'll go in 585 00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:21.039 to see the commanding office. And he starts yelling at me, and I 586 00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:23.760 just I did something I've never done before. I just lost it a little 587 00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:27.840 bit with rank and I told him to f off. I was like, 588 00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:30.239 no, not having an f off. I'm doing I'm doing that. That's 589 00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:32.440 what I want to do. And he stood there and he looked at me 590 00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:37.559 and he went Lance, Corporal Camps, you have just reached your ceiling. 591 00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:42.599 In an afternoon, you'll be going no further in your career here, so 592 00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:45.119 I suggest you go somewhere else. Anyway, At this point there was a 593 00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:50.119 guy called Major Henry Egan, and Major hen Reagan was the regiment's to ic. 594 00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:52.679 He's screaming campion, getting here, getting in. Now I knew he 595 00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:55.840 was a half decent blokey dump pea company, had his wings, nice geezer, 596 00:34:57.920 --> 00:34:59.800 and I get see and he shuts the door behind me and he goes. 597 00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:02.360 He goes camp he and he goes, you've really messed up. At 598 00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:05.639 this time he goes. He goes, You've probably got two options. I 599 00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:08.119 said, what today, then, sir, he says, well, he 600 00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:10.440 says, civilian, civilian street. He said you could get out, he 601 00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:14.840 said, because you're not going to get any grace around here anymore. He 602 00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:16.880 said you could try a special Forces selection, he said, And I think 603 00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:20.880 you'd be suited to special Forces selection. He says, yeah, fit. 604 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.079 You know you obviously like you know, you're not scared of a bit of 605 00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:25.719 work. He says, I ever go at that. Come out of there 606 00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:30.880 all right, went down, spoke to my platoon sergeant, put my paperwork 607 00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:32.599 in. Can I do special Forces selection? He sort of like laughed at 608 00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:35.800 me, because no one had ever seen me in that light before really, 609 00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:39.199 So he's gone yet, all right or whatever, put the paperworking, and 610 00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:43.119 that's gone to the boss. That's gone to the co CEO said no, 611 00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.559 I'm not letting him go. I'm like, why not? He said, 612 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.239 what I wanted to do. I wanted to do two years in Northern Ireland. 613 00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:53.400 There's one of my cop platoon commands for patrol commanders, so we went 614 00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:59.440 to Northern Ireland. Sure enough, I was a cop patrol commander. Halfway 615 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:04.079 through that there was a ceasefire and I got the message from the commanding officer, 616 00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:06.920 if you can get yourself ready, you can go on the next selection. 617 00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:08.360 And that was when I got let go, and I did. I 618 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:12.760 did get on the next selection, like you know, so yeah, but 619 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:15.400 it was People always choke. People always say to me, what was the 620 00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:19.360 hardest part of selection? And it's very tongue in cheek, but I always 621 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:22.079 say getting on it was the hardest part. I mean, because once I 622 00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:22.840 was on it again, I loved it. Like you know what I mean, 623 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.320 It's extremely hard. It's a tough course and I'm sure we'll talk about 624 00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:30.119 it in a minute, but actually getting on it took me nearly two years 625 00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:35.519 deciding I wanted to go. I got messed about all over the place people 626 00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:37.239 you know, this, that and the other, and before I know, 627 00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:39.519 you know, it took a long time getting on it. Why was there 628 00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:45.519 a specific reason you called your brigade commander instead of going like up your chain 629 00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:46.960 of command, Like did you think they would turn you down? Or did 630 00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:52.800 you just kind of huh? Right? So I knew that Johnny Holmes loved 631 00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:55.280 the parachute Regiment because we were in the Airborne Brigade and we weren't an airborne 632 00:36:55.280 --> 00:37:00.480 battalion. So bearing in mind, I just met him on a course he'd 633 00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:01.920 come to see as he knew who I was, I thought, I'll try 634 00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:06.239 me luck. I thought he loves the parachute Regiment that much. If he 635 00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:08.679 thinks I'm sort of like one of the transfer across, he might just go 636 00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.079 for it, you know what I mean? How wrong could I have been? 637 00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:15.719 Like he must have just looked down his photos if to go. I 638 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:23.159 can't believe this lunatic you know in the American military would say a good initiative, 639 00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:27.400 poor judgment, right right, absolutely, yeah, yah yah, yeah, 640 00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:29.559 So yeah, there's been plenty of that in my life. I can 641 00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:31.800 tell you that, you know, right, right, So so you get 642 00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:35.719 that, you get the selection. You said you actually kind of enjoyed it 643 00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:38.519 like it was soldiering stuff. Yeah, well I'll say that. So the 644 00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:44.760 first four weeks of selection is known as the hills phase, and that is 645 00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:49.320 extremely arduous. It's on the hills. Every day, your pack gets progressively 646 00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:52.159 larger, the distances get longer, and before you know it, you're on 647 00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:55.760 what's called test week, and it's a it's a tough week. And by 648 00:37:55.840 --> 00:38:00.960 then you've probably got no skin left on your heels, you'll have ownails missing, 649 00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:04.599 You'll you have lost a bit of weight. You'll be feeling it by 650 00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:07.079 the end, you know what I mean. So it's a tough That first 651 00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:09.280 four weeks is tough, and they don't care if you fail. They they 652 00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.800 in fact, they actually encourage you to fail, do you know what I 653 00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:15.480 mean? They don't want That's called aptitude, and it's aptitude to see if 654 00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:19.440 you're good enough to go to the jungle and if you've got the sort of 655 00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:22.119 material that will keep you going in the jungle. Do you know what I 656 00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:25.000 mean? Because it's going to get tougher in the jungle and so aptitude is 657 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:29.400 designed. They don't even know your name by the end of aptitude. Really, 658 00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:31.000 they just want to They just want to know how many how many bonds 659 00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:35.239 they've got on the coach going to the airport to take to brune That's it. 660 00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:36.960 They're not interested in other than that, you know what I mean, 661 00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:43.679 They really don't care. So I obviously you made it through that portion. 662 00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:47.039 And then you guys go under your jungle fares. That's right. Yet, 663 00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:51.320 so you got you move on. You go back to Hereford for a couple 664 00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:53.079 of weeks, which is to learn a few bits and pieces, so you've 665 00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:57.360 not got to learn it all under the canopy. It's also to give your 666 00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:00.880 body a chance to recuperate a little bit from the hills. So you know, 667 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:04.360 I spent any spare time I had, I've spent stuff in pizzas into 668 00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:06.079 my face and eating, do you know what I mean, Because I'd lost 669 00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:08.960 so much weight, I was emaciated. So yeah, I just basically ate 670 00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:12.719 and monched and trained again. And like I say, by the end of 671 00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:17.239 up two weeks we deployed over the Bruneye and then you sort of like you 672 00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:22.159 have another couple of weeks there where you're climatize to the heat because it's proper 673 00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:24.559 hot over in Brunei. And then you go under the canopy and then you 674 00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:29.800 start your jungle training proper and it's about six weeks. It's probably split into 675 00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:32.320 two phases, the first phases where you learn all the stuff, the second 676 00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:37.519 phases where they test that you've taken it in. So it's I always say 677 00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:40.960 about it, it's monkey, see, monkey do, and if monkey stops 678 00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:44.360 doing, monkey goes home. And that's it. That's what selection is. 679 00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:47.280 Do you know what I mean. It's tough, it's hard. The jungle 680 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:52.119 is an environment where it rains relentlessly two or three times a day. You're 681 00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:54.800 gonna get wet, You're gonna get sticky, you're gonna get tired. If 682 00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:58.199 you fought the hills in Wales were bad, but the hills in the jungle 683 00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:00.800 are ten times worse. They're steeper, they're longer, they're harder. You've 684 00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:07.239 got a canopy that restricts your sight, your movement. You've got creepy crawlies 685 00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:10.679 that want your dead. You've got bushes and sticky out things out of the 686 00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:15.239 floor that want your dead. The staff probably want your dead. In truth, 687 00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:16.719 as well, you know what I mean. So everything wants to dead 688 00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:21.159 to the jungle. You've got the sword of damacles which hangs over your head 689 00:40:21.159 --> 00:40:23.320 for the whole time. You can be sacked at any point and you don't 690 00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:27.000 know when people are watching it. So you you you'll get found out in 691 00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:29.800 the jungle if you if you try and bluffet, if you try and sort 692 00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:31.400 of like cut corners, if you do something you shouldn't be doing, you 693 00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:35.280 will get caught in the jungle and you will get found out and you will 694 00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:37.440 get sent off the course. So with that in mind, you are under 695 00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:40.960 the You are under the hammer from the time you go in there to the 696 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:45.559 time you get out. There's no relentless. It's relentless. It's it's it's 697 00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:50.960 it's slog, it's hard work, it's graph But on the plus side of 698 00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:53.840 things, you're now using proper gear. You now got all the tools to 699 00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:58.039 do the job. You're being taught cool stuff, you be doing cool things. 700 00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:00.320 You're doing what you're set out to do in your military career. You're 701 00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:05.519 learning everything you need to know to become one of these people that you've seen 702 00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:07.960 kicking around and you think, right, I want to be like these people, 703 00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:09.679 do you know what I mean? And that's that's a real factor in 704 00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:13.119 it for me, because you know, you can think yourself, if I 705 00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:15.440 failed this course, I'm going back to where I was. If I passed 706 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:16.440 this course, I'm going to be one of them, you know what I 707 00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:19.960 mean? And I wanted to be one of them. And so you know 708 00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:24.360 the fact that I also enjoyed what I was doing over over wrote the It's 709 00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:30.000 sort of like canceled out the hardship. Yeah, you're worrying how to do 710 00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:34.599 special operations? Yeah, so you know, Yes, it's hard, and 711 00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:36.880 it's going to get harder when you get out of there and do it for 712 00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:37.960 real because you know there's going to be an enemy on top of that. 713 00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:39.920 It is going to want your dad properly, do you know what I mean? 714 00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:45.360 So you know, I just I just thoroughly enjoyed the jungle. You 715 00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:46.960 know, we learned, We learned everything we needed to know, We were 716 00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:52.599 shown everything properly, We rehearsed everything, we practiced everything. The final exercise 717 00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:54.519 was tough. It was it was hard, it was it was unrelenting, 718 00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:58.719 but it was brilliant, it really was. And I remember when I finished 719 00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:01.679 finally finished in the jungle. You know, we got picked up on a 720 00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:07.559 on a little sort of belheuey helicopter, sat on the skids. The low 721 00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:10.519 master passed me a can of beer and he's and I remember sitting there thinking, 722 00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:15.719 well, I've done me best. It's hard a pass will fail from 723 00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:16.920 now, but you know, at least I've made it this far. I 724 00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:19.880 was. I was really proper tough for myself, like, do you know 725 00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:22.880 what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I mean it is a big accomplishment. 726 00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:24.880 And and see how you like feel proud of yourself after getting that far. 727 00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:30.360 And so what was the next phase after jungle training? Okay, so 728 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:34.199 you go back, you do a bit of heavy weapons training. You learn 729 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:36.920 some of the bigger weapons, you know, the fifty cows, and probably 730 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:38.480 some of the gear that you haven't touched before. Have a look at some 731 00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:40.719 of the vehicles and that that you might be using. Do a bit of 732 00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:46.360 training on those. That's really another sort of like to recoup your body a 733 00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:49.360 bit, because by the time you come out of the jungle again, like 734 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:52.679 when you came out of the trees, I had thorns coming out of my 735 00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:54.320 hands for weeks afterwards, you know what I mean? It starts off with 736 00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:58.000 a little pimple, then you squeeze and then sort of like a half inch 737 00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:00.719 fawn comes out of your finger and your ass. It's just horrendous in it, 738 00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:04.000 do you know what I mean? So there was a bit of recovery 739 00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:08.559 time there. We then you don't go on your seer training. Now, 740 00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:13.280 the seer training I can't really talk too much about because that's obviously one of 741 00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:15.639 the things that is, you know, you could potentially be giving stuff away 742 00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:19.840 on. But the seer training I really enjoyed that. You started off he 743 00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:22.840 did some survival training, so you had all sorts of stuff going on, 744 00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:27.360 learning about the principles of survival, fire, water, shelter, all that 745 00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:30.599 sort of stuff, all the good stuff, navigation, all the bits and 746 00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:34.519 pieces. I really enjoyed that. And then you had a few people came 747 00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:37.760 in. We had some fighter pilot, John Nickel came in. He'd been 748 00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:40.639 behind enemy lines and taken down when his when his when his airframe came out 749 00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:45.679 of sky. So he talked to us about conduct after capture and all that 750 00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:49.079 sort of stuff. So we had some really cool visitors in. Uh we 751 00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:52.400 met them, we spoke to them, and then you get taken from there 752 00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:57.239 and you basically you end up you end up going on the run and you 753 00:43:57.320 --> 00:44:00.920 know, you get captured eventually and you get in harrogated for thirty six hours 754 00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:04.559 something like that, and then that's you know, you come to the end 755 00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:07.159 of that phase, and again it's a parce will fail at the end of 756 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:08.679 that. So, yeah, I can't go into the pacifics of that. 757 00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:12.840 But yeah, again it's tough. It's tough, and a lot of guys 758 00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:17.559 psychologically gave up on that point. They just had enough. Just I'm not 759 00:44:17.639 --> 00:44:20.159 doing this anymore, do you know what I mean? I remember two or 760 00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:22.599 three guys just sat there going, no, I've had enough. I can't 761 00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:25.199 do this. And my attitude was the whole time I was there, I 762 00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:29.079 thought to myselves, Yeah, this is tough, but it's not real. 763 00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:31.119 It's not real. You might be interrogating, you might be doing all sorts 764 00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:32.599 of stuff to me, but at the end of the day, you're not 765 00:44:32.599 --> 00:44:36.239 going to make me pregnant and you're not going to kill me. So actually, 766 00:44:36.440 --> 00:44:38.840 with those two things out of the equosure, I don't care, you 767 00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:44.400 know what I mean, I can take the rest. I've seen it. 768 00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:45.599 I've had it in the kid zones. Mate, don't worry about that, 769 00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:47.679 you know what I mean. I don't care. There's nothing you can do 770 00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:50.960 to me. You can have me naked. I don't care, do you 771 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:54.599 know what I mean? Crack on, do your worst. And so what 772 00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:59.079 comes after after Syra? Do you start doing like the counter terrorism portion? 773 00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:00.760 No? You do you you do your jumps course, so if you haven't 774 00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:05.239 done you, I was already jumped trained on the round parachutes. And then 775 00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:07.079 you do a thing called a twenty two foot steerable, which is another round 776 00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:09.400 parachute. I'll tell you a story about that in a second. And then 777 00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:13.159 you do your squares. You do your squares, so you don't do hayho, 778 00:45:13.239 --> 00:45:15.480 but you do that. You do the hop and pop squares, you 779 00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:16.639 do the ones that open as you come out of the static lines. Ye. 780 00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:22.079 So, but I remember, so you got you got a week off 781 00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:24.000 if you've done your if you've done your round parachute, so I obviously took 782 00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:28.760 that week off. You've got an extra weekend off if you'd done the twenty 783 00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:30.800 two foot steerables. Now I thought to myself, well, look it's a 784 00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:34.719 round shoot. How difference can it be? So when they come around. 785 00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:37.639 I went, yeah, I've done the twenty two foot steerable. On the 786 00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:40.840 Monday morning, they says, right, go down to go down to the 787 00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:46.000 Brise Norton and your shoots were on the floor. These twenty two foot steerable 788 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:49.119 shoots were on the floor and we were gonna do what we're gonna do a 789 00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:51.679 water jump. We were jumping in the water off Brown to the island and 790 00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:53.360 I remember getting down there thinking, oh, I didn't think it was gonna 791 00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:55.320 get tested on this, like you know what I mean, and think it 792 00:45:55.360 --> 00:45:59.000 can't be that hard. So I've got down I've seen the shoot on the 793 00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:00.440 floor and I'm like, what is that? It was totally different than anything 794 00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:04.400 I've ever seen before the class that went on. So I'm thinking of myself, 795 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:05.960 how am I going to get away with this because it's going to be 796 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:07.199 so obvious. I've never jumped this before and they're going to realize I just 797 00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:12.199 took the weekend off and so I'm looking at this thing and I think the 798 00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:16.119 brains my brain went, I'll tell you what lie. So I've looked at 799 00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:19.199 the loading and I've got mate, I said at the weekend, I said 800 00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:22.239 my shoulder, I said you wouldn't do me a favorite we put that shoot 801 00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:23.760 on, would you? Oh? Of course I will son, he says, 802 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:27.119 So he picks he puts it on for me. So now that's that's 803 00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:28.920 part of the battle done. I put at least I've got it on. 804 00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:31.400 So that's at least I've got it on. I'm there, I'm in the 805 00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:35.119 line. I ends up number two in the stack, so I think, 806 00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:37.239 well, I've got one bloke in front of me. I'll just watch what 807 00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:40.199 he does and then i'll pubb you what he does. I picked myself right. 808 00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:44.679 So as he gets into the sky, I'm expecting the side doors to 809 00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:49.440 open because we're on rounds. The back door comes down, so I'm thinking 810 00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:52.119 I've never jumped out the back. We've got no clue what is going on. 811 00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:54.679 So I think, right, I can't say anything to anybody. All 812 00:46:54.760 --> 00:46:58.360 my mates know what I've done. All the blokes stood around me, going, 813 00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:00.679 you twat, now you've been caught out. Yeah. They're laughing at 814 00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:01.199 me, and they go, you're idiot. You know what I mean. 815 00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:05.119 I'm going, Oh, I'm going I don't know what to do. I'm 816 00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:07.280 looking at me making to go, tell me, what have I got to 817 00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:12.360 do, and he's looking at me and go, mate, you want the 818 00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:15.920 red light guns on? Shuffled out at the back of the plane, and 819 00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:17.280 I think, right, I've got one guy in front of me to see 820 00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:20.719 what he does, and I'm just going to copy what he does. So 821 00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:24.360 he jumps out in his lovely sort of like position and I try to emulate 822 00:47:24.440 --> 00:47:29.280 it. But I really pushed myself into Instead of sort of up flopping into 823 00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:31.880 the slip stream, I pushed myself into it. I end up spinning around. 824 00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:35.880 I go all over the place. When I look up in the sky, 825 00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:38.920 right, I feel my parachute tug a little bit right, and I 826 00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:43.079 look up and it's got a hole in it, right, And I'm like 827 00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:45.519 no, no, So I start screaming on thats got hold of it. 828 00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:49.400 We don't only jump from four hundermeters because it was a wet drop and they 829 00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:52.480 don't give you a reserve. And I'm looking I'm screaming now. I didn't 830 00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:55.480 realize that these twenty two steerables have all the holes in him, because that's 831 00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:58.559 how you steer the bloody things? Does that mean? Right? Right? 832 00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:02.119 Screaming at the shoot, thinking I'm going to die, the guys are waiting 833 00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:06.159 for us in boats at the bottom of his parachute jump instructures, thinking there's 834 00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:10.880 one that lied. I hit the water. I managed to slow it down. 835 00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:13.920 So you're supposed to turn them in the wind, but I don't know 836 00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:16.280 how to do that obviously. So I've hit the water doing a tremendous speed. 837 00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:20.519 I've bound, I've come through my shoe. I've landed in the middle 838 00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:22.239 of my shoot. The thing's sinking. I've got my knife out. I'm 839 00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:24.360 cutting it to ribbons to get out of it. Like you know what I 840 00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:30.639 mean? What imeem. It's like looking at at me and goes you haven't 841 00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:36.599 got a clue what you're doing. I went, I I went. I 842 00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:38.920 just didn't listen properly. I'm sorry. I didn't listen properly, and I 843 00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:45.440 got away with it. Yeah, I've got a way of it. You're 844 00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:49.920 a fucking wild man, Phil. So he done the squares. Of course, 845 00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:52.360 after that time, done past parachuting, put the bed from it. 846 00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:57.880 Then you did two weeks counter terrorism where you put all the black gear on, 847 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:02.400 dangle off ropes, underhad helicopters, jumped through windows ki. Yeah, 848 00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:05.760 all that sort of stuff, all the gear, all the club all the 849 00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:08.199 stuff you've seen on the Iranian embassy. You know this is now Now you're 850 00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:12.920 in dreamtown, like now you go after that, you get bad. So 851 00:49:13.239 --> 00:49:17.039 I remember you no big ceremony. There was what probably ten of us left 852 00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:21.360 at the end of it from three hundred and fifty odd and were in the 853 00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:25.239 regimental theater and the CEO comes in, and I remember he gave us this 854 00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:30.360 speech about going. Some of you have only just passed this by the skin 855 00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:31.760 of your teeth, so don't think that you're any good here, and don't 856 00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:37.559 fix yourself. That's me, That's definitely mean, that's definitely me. He's 857 00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:40.960 going anyway, he says, And he walked past us. He literally at 858 00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:45.360 our berries in a pile in his hand and he literally like through it you 859 00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:49.679 flicked at you like a frisbee and walked out, And I remember thinking to 860 00:49:49.719 --> 00:49:54.840 himself, Yeah, that was worth it. They don't have a ceremony where 861 00:49:54.880 --> 00:50:00.760 you guys doned the brat and everything and no, no, he tells you. 862 00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:06.239 He tells you how close to failure you've been, and gives you a 863 00:50:06.280 --> 00:50:08.920 massive speech about your nothing around here until you've cut your teeth properly, and 864 00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:14.119 how he goes and it's like you you are full on back down to earth 865 00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:16.400 with an absolute splash. Right. I remember I hadn't had time, we 866 00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:19.559 had none of us had shaped our berries, so I didn't want to put 867 00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:21.440 it on the head because it looked like a helipad, like you know what 868 00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:23.079 I mean, And so we sort of like sloped off back to the block. 869 00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:25.280 I actually ran back over and put my mom on the head because it 870 00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:29.960 looks so poor. So I literally I ran a fuck behind the block and 871 00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:31.599 ran down the back of the block and went into the block through the backway 872 00:50:31.639 --> 00:50:35.920 so I didn't have to get seen by anybodyho about me bury on and then 873 00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:37.880 obviously went and shaped it up before we had done its parade. But yeah, 874 00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:44.599 yeah, it was a completely no ceremony, literally, not even a 875 00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:47.599 well done, not even a well done you know. I think they gave 876 00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:50.800 you the five minute thing. You had to sign a thing to say that 877 00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:53.440 you were now going to subscribe to the Regimental Association charity and all that sort 878 00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:58.559 of stuff and buy your raffle tickets every year, and then you literally you 879 00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:00.480 literally were sort of told yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're lucky. 880 00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:04.679 You're lucky to still be here. Right now, cracking on you idiots, 881 00:51:04.719 --> 00:51:06.280 you know what I mean, You've got you've got to go and start 882 00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:08.079 earning and living now. I mean, that was it, and that was 883 00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:10.280 it, And I went to the squadron at a time where we were going 884 00:51:10.280 --> 00:51:15.559 straight onto the counter terrorism team, so I literally sort of like went straight 885 00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:20.400 into Black Kit and they were just starting their training for the handover. So 886 00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:22.440 I went straight to the squadron and we were training to take over the counter 887 00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:27.400 terrorism team. And that's like that that that mission kind of like rotates between 888 00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:30.199 the squadrons, right. Yeah, I'm not sure what they do now, 889 00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:32.559 because obviously things have changed there, especially with the amount of work that's been 890 00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:36.199 going on on all the stuff that they do now, which of course I'm 891 00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:38.320 not privy to, but in those days, you were you were like a 892 00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:44.360 standby squadron, a counter terrorism squadron, and a training and reserve type squadron 893 00:51:44.400 --> 00:51:49.360 thing was, and that you'll rotated around these things. I kind of yeah, 894 00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:52.960 you're rotated round and so you all got a fair sort of like shout 895 00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:54.519 to each one. So you spent sort of like six months to a year 896 00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:58.840 on each one, and the handovers were all overlapped, so that you could 897 00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:00.239 get your training and then all that. So yeah, it was you were 898 00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:04.320 always busy. And if you weren't, if you weren't on an operation, 899 00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:07.960 or if you weren't training, you were sent away to do various courses. 900 00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:10.440 You know, your bodyguarding course. I've got spent sent to Spain to learn 901 00:52:10.519 --> 00:52:15.079 Spanish, and yeah, it's just yeah, it's just one thing after another 902 00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:16.079 there. So you were extremely busy, do you know what I mean. 903 00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:20.360 And we were in and out of Bosniar all the time. You know, 904 00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:22.360 it was a few bits and pieces beginning to start elsewhere in the world. 905 00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:25.440 So yeah, we were quite busy. And you know, yeah, so 906 00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:29.679 you know, Sierra Leone was going on, and you know, obviously I've 907 00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:32.920 spoke openly about doing a large ostage rescue job there, which was probably the 908 00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:36.960 pinnacle of what I did at the time I was in Hereford. So yeah, 909 00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:39.079 it was. It was an interesting time to be there. Not probably 910 00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:43.239 as kinetic as what guys had it for the for the years after I left, 911 00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:45.159 but certainly, you know, we got our hands dirty and we went 912 00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:49.519 out the door plenty enough to well I'll ask you about all of that for 913 00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:52.920 sure, Phil, But what was it like as a as a young buck. 914 00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:54.400 You know, this is before you were a big Phil. You were 915 00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:59.159 a like skinny Phil. Back back in those days, there was nothing big 916 00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:04.360 about me, appartly showing up showing up at your squadron meeting, your you 917 00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:07.400 know, team sergeant or troop sergeant. I mean, what what was that? 918 00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:10.960 What was that experience? Like? I remember I went to what you 919 00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:15.559 call the interest room and there were loads of guys and they just looked they 920 00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:17.440 all looked older to me, and I was like, wow, this is 921 00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:21.119 like there's like there's like old men here, you know what I mean. 922 00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:24.079 I'm like, this is and I remember my troops I won't say his name 923 00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:28.360 because he probably wouldn't thank me for it. When my troops South sergeant had 924 00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:30.599 basically been in the golf Gulf War one, he'd done a little bit, 925 00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:35.400 and he's just sort of like, right, what's your name? Blah blah 926 00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:37.079 blah. We went back, we sat down, he read us sort of 927 00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:38.840 like not the Riot Act, but he said, you know, this is 928 00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:42.920 what's expected of your you know, expected to pray at all times. You 929 00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:45.000 know you've got to do this, You've got to do that, you know, 930 00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:47.320 make sure you read your orders, make sure you carry your page when 931 00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:52.559 you're on a page, all that sort of stuff, and then it was 932 00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:54.440 very much just fitting in with the course timing. So we were straight onto 933 00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:57.639 a course and you know, the rest of the lads were good. There 934 00:53:57.719 --> 00:53:59.840 was a couple of sort of like older lads there. I remember there's one 935 00:53:59.880 --> 00:54:01.400 in particularly going. I won't say his name, but he was a bit 936 00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:04.840 older and he looked down on the young lads, do you know what I 937 00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:07.360 mean. So you had to you had to you almost have to prove yourself 938 00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:09.400 a little bit to him, let alone haven't passed selection. So there was 939 00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:15.400 a little bit of that, but not too much. Most most guys in 940 00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:19.360 the squadron, it was very relaxed. It was very handshaky, very you 941 00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:21.960 know, welcome to the squadron. Let's get on with this, Let's get 942 00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:23.800 it done, you know what I mean. Because to be fair, you've 943 00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:28.199 put a lot of effort into selection, so you know, you've earned your 944 00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:30.639 right to be there. You've now got the you know, just got to 945 00:54:30.679 --> 00:54:31.039 fit in and get on with it, like you know what I mean, 946 00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:36.519 did you uh, you know, did you go back to your old unit 947 00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:42.519 after you passed selection to dancing ye or something. Yeah, I did a 948 00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:45.280 I ran a jungle school or a bush school for them in Botswana, which 949 00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:49.719 was quite funny. That's another story altogether. But the very first time I 950 00:54:49.800 --> 00:54:52.880 went back I found out because I had to go back to get my kit. 951 00:54:52.519 --> 00:54:54.079 They had a load of kit of mine and I had to give them 952 00:54:54.079 --> 00:54:58.239 a load of kit of theirs back and all that sort of stuff. And 953 00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:00.159 I remember there was a guy there was a sart made. It was an 954 00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:05.159 absolute bully and he had been running a sweepstake on what they had a failed 955 00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:07.440 selection? Do you know what I mean? Anybody hadn't failed selection. I 956 00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:10.840 was going back and I had to go and see him, and I remember 957 00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:15.320 walking in to see him when he sort of stood up and went well done, 958 00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:16.679 and I was like, well done for what? And I didn't call 959 00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:19.679 him sir. And he went to say, you can call me sir if 960 00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:21.480 you like, and I was like, look at him as if to go, 961 00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:23.039 no, I'm not going to call you sir either, So is your 962 00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:27.159 move? So he got the right hump. He went, oh your gears 963 00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:30.000 over there, I want cheers, mate, and I walked off and deliberately 964 00:55:30.039 --> 00:55:32.400 being rude to him because I hated him, right, so I went over 965 00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:35.000 and got me again. And I shouldn't have done it, really was. 966 00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:37.199 It was against the ethos. Really it was a bit. It was a 967 00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:39.679 bit a bit much, but I didn't like the bloke, he didn't like 968 00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:42.320 me, and I thought, I'm going to put it over you. So 969 00:55:42.440 --> 00:55:45.440 anyway, I remember, I remember walking out of his office and there was 970 00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:47.440 a there was a female clerk in the office and she laughed, and I 971 00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:52.079 remember he absolutely tore a strip off of her so where he couldn't have a 972 00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:54.320 go at me, he had to go. And I actually found her later 973 00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:58.840 on and I apologized to her because she basically got the wroth of of me 974 00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:00.280 being a twap to that oak, you know, I mean, so yeah, 975 00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:04.760 but uh yeah, I mean, my my genuine friends were really tough 976 00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:08.800 for me. And actually the commanding officer wrote me a handwritten note letter sent 977 00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:12.920 to my house saying, you know, we might not have always seen eye 978 00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:15.880 to eye, but he respected what I'd done. And you know, actually 979 00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:17.440 he was one of the ones that thought that I would pass if I went, 980 00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:20.920 and he didn't want to lose me. So I've got a really nice 981 00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:24.199 letter of the command and that was a stand up thing. Yeah, do 982 00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:27.599 you know what? Right, he left he left the military a lot a 983 00:56:27.679 --> 00:56:30.119 lot longer after me. He left as a major general or something. So 984 00:56:30.199 --> 00:56:32.320 he actually left as a general and I found out he was leaving, and 985 00:56:32.360 --> 00:56:36.679 I sent him a I sent him a handwritten letter back to basically say to 986 00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:38.440 him, you know, we might not have seen eye to eye, but 987 00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:42.400 actually, you know, i'd have been stood up with the rest of them 988 00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:44.400 and march at camp, do you know what I mean? And I'd have 989 00:56:44.440 --> 00:56:45.719 thrown a salute up because you actually weren't a bad boss, you know what 990 00:56:45.719 --> 00:56:49.920 I mean. So yeah, yeah, the thing was reciprocated. But yeah, 991 00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:52.920 he was stand up for doing that because he could have just been like 992 00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:57.559 the others and written yeah he didn't know. So yeah, that was nice. 993 00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:01.400 So so let's hear about like getting upper or in the unit. You 994 00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:06.079 said you were going back and forth to the Balkans. Yeah, so we 995 00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:07.880 did quite a few things over in the Balkans, and it was I mean, 996 00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:10.480 I can't go into the details and specifics of a lot of this again 997 00:57:10.519 --> 00:57:15.760 because a lot of it's not in the public domain, but basically we were 998 00:57:15.800 --> 00:57:21.760 going after they're looking, looking and arresting and that these persons wanted and dieted 999 00:57:21.800 --> 00:57:24.840 for piflicks. We used to call wanted and dieted for war crimes, so 1000 00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:28.840 war criminals. So that was a that was a job that I thought was 1001 00:57:28.840 --> 00:57:30.559 a really cool job like that, I mean, because we were going over 1002 00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:32.360 there. Guys were doing the surveillance, they were teeing these things up, 1003 00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:36.039 and we were literally going over there. Well you might you might spend a 1004 00:57:36.079 --> 00:57:37.239 few days under cover, like you know what I mean, but then you'd 1005 00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:42.440 break cover. You you snatch these people in an amazing array of different and 1006 00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:44.199 I wish I could tell you all the different ways we did it, but 1007 00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:47.360 we did some amazing stuff there. So we would grabbing these fellas and we 1008 00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:52.119 would take them to to to a drop off. The Americans had pick them 1009 00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:54.320 up and they'd be taken off to the Hague and you know, they stand 1010 00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:57.840 trial for for whatever it was they'd done. And some of these people have 1011 00:57:57.920 --> 00:58:00.119 done some heenus stuff, you know, they you know, they were guilty 1012 00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:04.159 of some really a trust some real atrosities. So we were ye know, 1013 00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:07.000 I was glad to be helping clean the place up load, you know what 1014 00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:09.000 I mean. I thought it was a really worthwhile good tasking, do you 1015 00:58:09.039 --> 00:58:12.000 know what I mean? So you know, they might not be in the 1016 00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:14.559 longest, they might not have always you know, a couple of them ended 1017 00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:16.440 up in guns fire as being shot and that sort of stuff. But nine 1018 00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:20.800 times out of ten we were at swift and we just have them out wherever 1019 00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:22.239 they were and gone before they even realized what was going on, like you 1020 00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:24.480 know what I mean. So, yeah, it was cool, it was 1021 00:58:24.559 --> 00:58:28.320 good, and it was good we had. What else did we have? 1022 00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:35.000 We had that I can talk about the stance that plane that came from Afghanistan 1023 00:58:35.079 --> 00:58:37.239 that time I was on that job. That was quite a funny job, 1024 00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:42.239 that was. Although it was resolved peacefully, it was you know, we 1025 00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:44.559 went we went through the whole thing with it, you know what I mean, 1026 00:58:44.800 --> 00:58:46.639 as if you know, for all intents and purposes, if they had 1027 00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:50.400 if it had gone noisey, we would have we would have actually you know, 1028 00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:52.800 got amongst that and absolutely beaaten them to pieces. Like you know, 1029 00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:57.599 I mean, well, what what was that incident? What happened? Right? 1030 00:58:57.719 --> 00:59:05.559 So basically asylum seekers jumped on a plane from Afghanistan hijacked it. There's 1031 00:59:05.599 --> 00:59:07.800 two of two of three of the sort of like main guys acted as the 1032 00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:12.840 hijackers. They flew it. I think they flew it to Russia. Originally 1033 00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:15.400 Russia didn't want it, so they flew it to Germany. Germany didn't want 1034 00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:16.599 it, so they fueled it up in the UK so we'll have it. 1035 00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:25.000 So it flew over to the UK, landed at Stanstad Airport and basically negotiations 1036 00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:29.559 went on to get to get their hostages out because you know, we believe 1037 00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:31.199 there was hostages on there. It turns out they're all asylum seekers. But 1038 00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:37.599 it sat on the pan for quite a few days. You know, we 1039 00:59:37.679 --> 00:59:38.880 went out, we did wrekis on it. We had to refuel it, 1040 00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:42.079 not refuel it, but we had to. We had to. We had 1041 00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:44.480 to put the food out for them and all that sort of stuff. Had 1042 00:59:44.519 --> 00:59:45.559 the snipers to play. It was a good little job, it was all 1043 00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:50.519 right. It was. It gave us a good insight into the counter terrorism 1044 00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:52.400 role for real, Like you know what I mean. It was like, 1045 00:59:52.519 --> 00:59:54.119 you know, you've done plenty of exercises, but this was now, this 1046 00:59:54.320 --> 00:59:58.639 was real. This was there was a plane, it had terrorists on it 1047 00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:00.599 and it had hostages in the BA. Do you know what I mean? 1048 01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:02.280 And it was that on our patch with us working it, do you know 1049 01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:05.320 what I mean? So yeah, but that sort of thing. It was 1050 01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:07.320 good like you and it was one of those deals where you know, like 1051 01:00:07.480 --> 01:00:12.800 Operation Nimrode like you were probably like jucked up, ready to go. Oh 1052 01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:15.480 mate, mate, I was. I was so I couldn't sleep. I 1053 01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:19.679 was wired up. This is on, And I had a really good job. 1054 01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:22.559 So I was going to be basically placing the charge over the front door, 1055 01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:24.440 and I've managed to wangle it to say, look, let me go 1056 01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:28.760 in at least second, so you've got because I was the method of entry 1057 01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:30.960 specialists on that job. So basically there was two of us there. There 1058 01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:35.320 was me and another lad, and we teed it up so that basically we 1059 01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:37.519 got into that plane proper early. So if the cockpit was like we could 1060 01:00:37.559 --> 01:00:40.400 we've been the ones that did the cockpit door as well. So yeah, 1061 01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:43.559 we were proper jacked up. I'm like, yeah, this is happening, 1062 01:00:43.639 --> 01:00:45.280 this is on, Like on Juan, I don't thinking to myself. I'd 1063 01:00:45.320 --> 01:00:47.840 even gone out and done one of the food drops and one of the terrorists 1064 01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:51.199 had come down the stairs and taken the food box off me. So I've 1065 01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:53.800 been face to face with a terrorist, you know, with a gun in 1066 01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:57.480 his hand for the first time in life, and I'm there face to face 1067 01:00:57.559 --> 01:00:59.800 giving him his food, and I'm looking at him in the eye, going 1068 01:01:00.239 --> 01:01:04.480 do it, well, have it, because I'm going to be on that 1069 01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:07.000 plane quicker than you can get down and aren't going to drop you like a 1070 01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:08.800 like a bad abbit's under you know what I mean. And we're coming on. 1071 01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:13.920 Yeah. It was a great little job, that was. And it's 1072 01:01:14.039 --> 01:01:16.679 just it never it never ended in the way that we'd planned. But you 1073 01:01:16.760 --> 01:01:19.960 know, they walked off and and you know, the the you know, 1074 01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:22.679 the the authorities will be happy that nobody got killed, but actually there was. 1075 01:01:22.760 --> 01:01:23.719 There was quite a few on there deserve to be killed as far as 1076 01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:29.199 I was concerned. Yeah, there is a negotiated end to that. Yeah, 1077 01:01:29.320 --> 01:01:31.920 it was a negotiated And they had a guy. This was funny. 1078 01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:36.199 So they saw what I did, a mock execution, and they threw this 1079 01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:38.719 guy off the back of the the steps used to come to the bottom of 1080 01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:44.239 stars and so they threw this keyser down the stairs and he hit the floor 1081 01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:46.760 and just sort of like the thing was, if he was dead, we 1082 01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:49.639 were going on and that was it. We were going on. So we 1083 01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:51.920 were stood too. They said this was happening, that was oppening. Boom, 1084 01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:54.079 next minute, doors open out. He comes. As we're mounting the 1085 01:01:54.119 --> 01:01:59.000 wagons to get ready to go. One of the snipers turned and said the 1086 01:01:59.039 --> 01:02:00.760 body on the thing sat up, so he wasn't dead. So they rushed 1087 01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:06.360 out a wagon. They picked up this guy, and their plan had always 1088 01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:08.280 been to get off the plane. They never thought that anybody was going to 1089 01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:12.760 come on that plane and do anything underwards them. They just thought they'd turn 1090 01:02:12.880 --> 01:02:14.920 up and eventually they got off the plane. So that was their plan. 1091 01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:19.239 And they literally they put this guy in the land in the police land rover. 1092 01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:22.800 They brought him background and the whole squadron were there. They had all 1093 01:02:22.840 --> 01:02:24.519 the vehicles lined up, all the ladders, all the guys were in black 1094 01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:28.559 kit, all gunned up, all ready to go. It's an impressive site, 1095 01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:30.679 it really is, you know what I mean. So he comes around 1096 01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:34.320 the corner of this little Afghan fella sat in the front of the vehicle and 1097 01:02:34.440 --> 01:02:37.960 he sees the squadron and thinks, geez, what is going on here. 1098 01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:39.519 He's like, oh my god, they're going to jump on there and kill 1099 01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:43.360 everybody. So he's screaming, can I have a phone? Phones up the 1100 01:02:43.360 --> 01:02:45.960 plane? You better get off there because he's going to kick your heads in 1101 01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:47.119 lunch, you know what I mean. And that was enough to get him 1102 01:02:47.159 --> 01:02:51.039 off. He phones up and says, look, there's a serious there's a 1103 01:02:51.239 --> 01:02:53.239 serious is around there, and they are coming on, do you know what 1104 01:02:53.239 --> 01:02:55.719 I mean? They're not bothered. And so next minute there's sort of like 1105 01:02:55.760 --> 01:02:59.159 a call and a bit of a kerfuffle and it's sort of like, can 1106 01:02:59.199 --> 01:03:02.360 we get off down? So the negotiators gave him a phone as like a 1107 01:03:02.440 --> 01:03:06.199 psychological tactic. Yeah, that's right, I got on phone him up, 1108 01:03:06.199 --> 01:03:08.480 tell him what you're just saying. And if he must have had his family 1109 01:03:08.519 --> 01:03:13.000 on that plane, and he's thinking, yeah, there's a lot of them. 1110 01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:15.000 It's not going to be a single body left at the time, this 1111 01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:23.320 lot. Any any I mean, any other like particular incidents that kind of 1112 01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:27.719 like I'll ask you about seatrale leone, but before that, I mean anything 1113 01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:31.760 that kind of like jumps out to your to mind. Not really not that, 1114 01:03:31.960 --> 01:03:37.000 not no, not no. Just like they say, the Bosnian stuff, 1115 01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:40.519 we can't really go too far deep into because there's nothing out there about 1116 01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:45.480 it, really, and the you know, the stance set stuff is I 1117 01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:47.239 only really talk about that because the TV covered it all. Anyway, do 1118 01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:51.400 you know what happened there? Really? Do you know what I mean? 1119 01:03:52.800 --> 01:03:55.519 There was a couple of funny little stories actually, so on that one in 1120 01:03:55.599 --> 01:04:00.639 particular, we had a we had we had a we had a guy and 1121 01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:02.440 he hadn't been all a batted onto anything, in particular for the for the 1122 01:04:02.519 --> 01:04:05.159 prelims when we're when we're all getting ready. So I was, I was 1123 01:04:05.239 --> 01:04:09.280 building charges, and I've been out on a couple of the food drops and 1124 01:04:09.320 --> 01:04:12.360 this guy hadn't done anything. So he's itching to do something. And I 1125 01:04:12.360 --> 01:04:15.840 remember I was sating outside the boss's office, and I hear the boss talking 1126 01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:18.440 about the fact that this plane's been on the pan for nearly six days. 1127 01:04:18.480 --> 01:04:23.400 It's been in the sky for free, and the ship tank needs needs empty. 1128 01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:25.880 And so I'm not, hang on, I listen to what's going on 1129 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:29.519 here. So they've said, well, look, they can't send anybody from 1130 01:04:29.679 --> 01:04:31.760 from the airlines out there because it's too dangerous. So they're gonna have to 1131 01:04:31.800 --> 01:04:34.760 train one of our guys up and he's gonna have to get on this like 1132 01:04:35.440 --> 01:04:39.559 this machine thing that is going to have to go out and suck, suck 1133 01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:45.639 the crap out of this. I suddenly thought about this lad, that they'll 1134 01:04:45.679 --> 01:04:46.599 have a job. So I'm like, all right, all right, there's 1135 01:04:46.599 --> 01:04:49.559 a job going. He comes running. Of course, he comes running. 1136 01:04:49.679 --> 01:04:53.480 He goes, right, good, Dan, you go, you're gonna learn 1137 01:04:53.519 --> 01:04:55.599 how to use He clicks straight away that he's going to be empty and the 1138 01:04:55.639 --> 01:04:58.159 ship out of this thing. He's not happy, but anyway, he learns 1139 01:04:58.199 --> 01:05:00.800 how to do it. He goes and practices on a out of other planes, 1140 01:05:00.119 --> 01:05:03.239 and then he drives the squadron stand too, so we can see him 1141 01:05:03.239 --> 01:05:06.079 on the television screens. All right, we're stood to in case it all 1142 01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:09.679 goes wrong, we've got to go and rescue him. The snipers are all 1143 01:05:09.679 --> 01:05:11.800 watching him, and he's proud. He's got a job now. So he's 1144 01:05:11.800 --> 01:05:15.079 going out there on his own with with the with the with the ship reaper, 1145 01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:17.719 right, and he's going to go and empty. He's going to complain, 1146 01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:21.599 right, So he drives that. He gets this bang and he's he's 1147 01:05:21.639 --> 01:05:25.400 looking about to make sure we're all watching him, and he couples his fing 1148 01:05:25.519 --> 01:05:29.559 up onto the bot with a plane and he steps back and he hits his 1149 01:05:29.679 --> 01:05:31.320 button and you see it going here the old pipes go boom, boom, 1150 01:05:31.400 --> 01:05:34.679 bom bomb like this, and then all of a sudden he put bomb and 1151 01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:43.119 half of it comes off and ship goes and he's covered from head to towing 1152 01:05:43.239 --> 01:05:45.360 ship. He comes back in, he looks like he looks like a melted 1153 01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:49.840 bar of chocolate when he comes in. And that's going to go do because 1154 01:05:49.840 --> 01:05:57.440 he stinks. He proper stink, anyway, I think, I mean, 1155 01:05:57.760 --> 01:05:59.760 I'm not sure what I think. They might have almost set him home, 1156 01:05:59.760 --> 01:06:01.760 because yeah, you have about a million jobs after that as well. Yeah, 1157 01:06:01.840 --> 01:06:05.519 yeah, I mean you must have had hepatitis A through z out the 1158 01:06:05.559 --> 01:06:08.639 whole suite, you know what I mean. I been engaged as well. 1159 01:06:12.199 --> 01:06:15.400 Yeah, you know that that brings to mind. So that was quite funny, 1160 01:06:15.400 --> 01:06:16.960 and I do know the fellow now he still smells a bit like that, 1161 01:06:17.320 --> 01:06:27.280 but he's all right. So tell us about when cil leone first comes 1162 01:06:27.360 --> 01:06:30.239 up on your units, you know, periphery, like this is something that 1163 01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:33.800 might be going down, and how that strust to come about for you. 1164 01:06:34.559 --> 01:06:39.320 Okay, So we were out in Africa on an exercise and it was we 1165 01:06:39.440 --> 01:06:41.800 were a phase in the exercise where we were doing a bit of a venture 1166 01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:45.880 training and it wasn't like your normal adventure training. It was like adventure training. 1167 01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:48.159 So I was a mountain trooper, which meant my insertion skills based around 1168 01:06:48.199 --> 01:06:51.159 the mountain. So we were going to go and climb Mount Kenya. We 1169 01:06:51.280 --> 01:06:54.639 were going to go and do the two points Batty and a Neli and we 1170 01:06:54.679 --> 01:06:56.599 were going to go and try and do them both. And we had a 1171 01:06:56.639 --> 01:07:00.719 bit of time and boat troop were down doing some stuff down in on and 1172 01:07:00.920 --> 01:07:04.679 then mobility troop were driving about in the desert and air troop were jumping out 1173 01:07:04.679 --> 01:07:08.519 of plane. So but it was all being done without any weapons. It 1174 01:07:08.639 --> 01:07:13.320 was all being done very sort of like just casually but just building your skills 1175 01:07:13.400 --> 01:07:17.519 up basically. So well, we were just about to deploy and every every 1176 01:07:17.679 --> 01:07:21.400 night at about six o'clock eighteen hundred you have to phone in and just do 1177 01:07:21.480 --> 01:07:25.679 a quick cons skin and just make sure. We phoned in and they said 1178 01:07:25.719 --> 01:07:28.880 what you need to get yourself back to camp. So we're like, oh 1179 01:07:29.159 --> 01:07:30.719 gosh, you just give us a clue what's going on because it was a 1180 01:07:30.800 --> 01:07:34.599 long way for us. It was even further for boat troop and so it's 1181 01:07:34.719 --> 01:07:36.880 just it was so anyway, they say, no, no, no, 1182 01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:40.840 look, there's a bit of a thing going on in West Africa. You're 1183 01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:42.559 going to have to come in. Trust us, you're gonna have to come 1184 01:07:42.599 --> 01:07:45.480 in. So we drove back in. It took us about eight hours I 1185 01:07:45.519 --> 01:07:48.519 think to get back and when we got there, we were greeted by the 1186 01:07:48.559 --> 01:07:51.280 start major who said, look, there is a there is the hossages had 1187 01:07:51.320 --> 01:07:55.280 been taken in West Africa. They give us a bit of a background on 1188 01:07:55.360 --> 01:07:57.599 it and said look and go and sit in your kit for now. And 1189 01:07:57.639 --> 01:08:00.400 I remember we were sitting on a kiting and boat Troop would drive back all 1190 01:08:00.440 --> 01:08:01.719 the way from Ambassad up to a place called the Nuki. It was a 1191 01:08:01.800 --> 01:08:05.199 long old drive. It was probably a sixteen hour drive. And at about 1192 01:08:05.239 --> 01:08:10.800 three o'clock in the morning, we all got woken up and told that basically 1193 01:08:11.480 --> 01:08:14.880 they've been involved in a road traffic accident and two of the guys were dead. 1194 01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:17.039 So they were dead. So we sawt like this thing had already cost 1195 01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:21.359 us two lives because two of ours we're on the side of the road and 1196 01:08:21.439 --> 01:08:27.039 we're like, h So now the focus for us really changed. Let's get 1197 01:08:27.079 --> 01:08:30.439 packed up, let's get these let's repatriate these bodies, Let's give them the 1198 01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:33.159 send off that they deserve. Let's get around the families, and let's make 1199 01:08:33.239 --> 01:08:36.439 sure that this one's sorted, you know, before we even start thinking about 1200 01:08:36.479 --> 01:08:40.039 anything in West Africa, because actually, right now, I don't give a 1201 01:08:40.039 --> 01:08:41.880 shit about West Africa, do you know what I mean? I couldn't care 1202 01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:45.680 less. It's about the two guys. So you know, we went back. 1203 01:08:45.840 --> 01:08:48.920 I remember the two bodies went back on British Airways flight. There were 1204 01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:51.960 six of us went on that flight with them, and we got back to 1205 01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:56.119 the UK. They obviously lifted off. They were taken to a morgue in 1206 01:08:56.199 --> 01:09:00.199 Hereford and the rest of the squadron flew back. Squadron, were you noted? 1207 01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:03.760 Back in the area. We had the funeral and at the funeral, 1208 01:09:04.479 --> 01:09:09.520 the start major said, right, no one's to drink this afternoon at the 1209 01:09:09.560 --> 01:09:14.399 funeral. And that's sas funerals are quite known for being quite heavy drinking affairs. 1210 01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:16.880 Guys used to really, you know, drink all afternoon, and you 1211 01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:21.199 know that that's the way they were. So to be asked not to drink 1212 01:09:21.319 --> 01:09:25.560 was a bit of a sort of like that's yeah, that's okay, whatever, 1213 01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:29.199 do you know what I mean, You've got to do what you're told. 1214 01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:31.520 So we went to the funeral, the family and all that sort of 1215 01:09:31.520 --> 01:09:34.279 stuff out there, and we have the funeral and we're in the we're in 1216 01:09:34.359 --> 01:09:40.239 the science mess afterwards, and nobody's drinking, and about six o'clock, about 1217 01:09:40.279 --> 01:09:43.359 tea time ish, incomes the R seven says, right, all serving the 1218 01:09:43.479 --> 01:09:46.840 all blades, all that's what they used to call us blades, all blades, 1219 01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:48.960 need to get into the ante room now, I need to give you 1220 01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:51.119 a quick breathe of what's going on. And we went into the ante room 1221 01:09:51.119 --> 01:09:54.199 and said, right, you are deploying. You are going to West Africa, 1222 01:09:54.560 --> 01:09:56.760 and if anyone's going to sort this out, if it does come to 1223 01:09:56.840 --> 01:09:58.760 that, then you're going to be the troops are going to use. So 1224 01:09:59.239 --> 01:10:01.960 actually we were quite glad about that because in our own minds, you know, 1225 01:10:02.079 --> 01:10:05.319 this had already cost us dearly in our squadron. So this this rightly 1226 01:10:05.359 --> 01:10:08.560 so was our squadron's job to go and sort this one out, you know 1227 01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:12.359 what I mean, Not not so much revenge, although at the time when 1228 01:10:12.399 --> 01:10:14.119 I was a young aad. I'm gonna be honest, I saw that as 1229 01:10:14.159 --> 01:10:16.359 revenge. I thought, right, if I get on a few of you 1230 01:10:16.439 --> 01:10:18.399 are certainly will do do you know what I mean, Because it's like you 1231 01:10:18.439 --> 01:10:21.039 want to make that loss mean something. Yeah, I want to, Yeah, 1232 01:10:21.119 --> 01:10:25.000 absolutely, you know I want to not even you know, one of 1233 01:10:25.039 --> 01:10:27.119 them was a really good friend of mine, and I wanted to avenge that 1234 01:10:27.239 --> 01:10:29.560 friend. Don't mean I really did. I genuinely did want to go in 1235 01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:30.439 there and avenge my friend, you know, I mean because I thought, 1236 01:10:30.479 --> 01:10:35.119 you know, that's an absolute waste of a good man for for for you 1237 01:10:35.399 --> 01:10:38.239 doing something that you shouldn't be doing, you know what I mean. So 1238 01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:40.960 I thought, right, that's this is this is ours, rightfully. So 1239 01:10:41.199 --> 01:10:45.439 so we went. We deployed down to Dakha. We sort of like grouped 1240 01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:48.399 in Dakar. Six of us went on the advanced party again. I was 1241 01:10:48.479 --> 01:10:51.920 lucky enough to be on that. So we went to Dakha. We then 1242 01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:57.399 deployed down at ser lyone and we were we were lifted onto the back of 1243 01:10:57.439 --> 01:10:59.520 it. So straight out of the plane, we went onto the back of 1244 01:10:59.560 --> 01:11:02.079 these rucks that reversed right up to the plane, so it didn't look look 1245 01:11:02.119 --> 01:11:05.600 more like a ration run than the troop deployment, because normally the troops would 1246 01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:09.800 get out and walked to the walk to the terminal, but we didn't. 1247 01:11:09.840 --> 01:11:13.119 We got straight onto the back of lorries which then drove out at the airport 1248 01:11:13.159 --> 01:11:15.840 a different gate and went down the walls. So they took us out of 1249 01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:18.960 camp and from there on him we were deployed and we started gaining information and 1250 01:11:19.079 --> 01:11:23.199 all that sort of stuff, and you know, it was intelligence led and 1251 01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:27.279 there was you know, there was some good intelligence coming out of the village 1252 01:11:27.399 --> 01:11:30.680 where they'd been taken to. There was proof of life's going on where one 1253 01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:34.840 of the guys managed to hand over a message. So we were pretty at 1254 01:11:34.840 --> 01:11:39.039 our fingers on the pulse. We knew that we had we didn't have limitless 1255 01:11:39.079 --> 01:11:42.920 time on this because if they did get wind of a rescue attempt, you 1256 01:11:43.000 --> 01:11:45.479 know, a they might move somewhere else and then it's a search and rescuers 1257 01:11:45.479 --> 01:11:48.399 supposed to just a rescue, but worse than that, they might just they 1258 01:11:48.479 --> 01:11:54.239 might just decide to kill them who were who were the hostages? Like, 1259 01:11:54.319 --> 01:11:57.399 how did that? How did this scenario come about? Yeah, let's let's 1260 01:11:57.640 --> 01:12:00.880 let's yeah, let's ree wind slightly on this one, and so the hostages 1261 01:12:00.880 --> 01:12:02.680 were from a unit called the Royal Irish. They were out there on a 1262 01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:08.239 peacekeeping tour. And basically there was a road which used to run out of 1263 01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:11.600 Freetown and used to go round a big area. They used to call it 1264 01:12:11.680 --> 01:12:15.000 the Horseshoe. And there were some checkpoints on this road, and I think 1265 01:12:15.039 --> 01:12:17.359 the Jordanians were on there and the Nigerians had a checkpoint, and they were 1266 01:12:17.680 --> 01:12:23.479 different countries un on these checkpoints. And inside of this great, big, 1267 01:12:23.800 --> 01:12:30.479 vast area there were the remnants of a group called the West Side Boys, 1268 01:12:30.560 --> 01:12:36.000 who were the remnants of the rebel group that had taken over or opposed the 1269 01:12:36.079 --> 01:12:41.239 government. They then sort of like swapped sides and been trained by the English 1270 01:12:41.279 --> 01:12:45.199 to go by the British to go up against to go up against the remainder 1271 01:12:45.239 --> 01:12:46.640 of the rebels, but then some of them had crossed didn't know where to 1272 01:12:46.720 --> 01:12:49.279 go after that, so they sort of formed their own little group called the 1273 01:12:49.319 --> 01:12:54.039 West Side Boys. And they didn't want to answer to the government because they'd 1274 01:12:54.039 --> 01:12:56.920 probably done too much. And they couldn't answer to the rebels or go and 1275 01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:00.880 join them because they'd fought against them. So they were pretty much contained in 1276 01:13:00.960 --> 01:13:04.760 this one area and the deal wells really leave them alone and they'll leave you 1277 01:13:04.840 --> 01:13:08.840 alone. Really, that's what it was. That's how I read the situation 1278 01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:13.399 anyway. And monitoring the roads to make sure that these people didn't come out 1279 01:13:13.439 --> 01:13:15.960 and start causing trouble in the local villagers. There was various checkpoints that you 1280 01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:20.079 had to go through, and the Royal Irish's job was basically to just man 1281 01:13:20.640 --> 01:13:24.000 go and have a look at these checkpoints and make sure they were doing their 1282 01:13:24.079 --> 01:13:26.720 job properly. That's how I understood it. So I don't allow to say 1283 01:13:26.720 --> 01:13:29.159 I wasn't on the tour, but that's how I understood it. I might 1284 01:13:29.359 --> 01:13:33.359 I might have been slightly wrong, but that's how I understood it. This 1285 01:13:33.560 --> 01:13:39.239 one patrol decided, or the officer on this patrol decided that he would go 1286 01:13:39.439 --> 01:13:44.119 down towards this village called Macbenny, which was well withinside the Horseshoe, which 1287 01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:48.119 was known to be occupied by the West Side Boys. The wives and wherefores 1288 01:13:48.199 --> 01:13:53.560 of him doing that still to this day aren't really known why he did it, 1289 01:13:53.640 --> 01:13:57.319 but he did do it. He took the troops down a track and 1290 01:13:57.359 --> 01:14:00.800 as they drove down the track. They were obviously seen coming, and they 1291 01:14:00.880 --> 01:14:03.279 blocked the track off, and as they tried to turn around, they blocked 1292 01:14:03.359 --> 01:14:08.560 him in from the back as well, and then eleven of them plus there 1293 01:14:09.279 --> 01:14:13.199 their interpreter, a guy called Moosa, were all taking hostage there and then 1294 01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:15.119 literally taken off the trucks. There was a bit of a stand too. 1295 01:14:15.199 --> 01:14:19.800 The guys caught their weapons, and actually, to be fair, the young 1296 01:14:19.880 --> 01:14:25.359 lads on that patrol went straight to their weapons, and the officer on the 1297 01:14:25.399 --> 01:14:28.640 patrol who'd made the mistake by going down there, called them off and said, 1298 01:14:28.640 --> 01:14:31.039 no, no, no, drop your weapons. And I do believe, 1299 01:14:31.159 --> 01:14:33.840 as hard as that would have been for any soldier to drop his weapon, 1300 01:14:33.880 --> 01:14:39.039 that was probably, in the light of hindsight now the best thing he 1301 01:14:39.159 --> 01:14:42.640 did, because yeah, they would have probably taken a few with them, 1302 01:14:42.680 --> 01:14:45.960 but there was that many rebels down there. Everybody would have ended up there 1303 01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:48.000 and none of them would have come home at all. That I'm absolutely sure 1304 01:14:48.079 --> 01:14:51.720 of that, do you know what I mean? So, yeah, anyway, 1305 01:14:51.720 --> 01:14:55.279 they end up in the village, they go straight over there, and 1306 01:14:55.319 --> 01:14:58.600 then the rest of it is I was being deployed. Luckily there was two 1307 01:14:59.000 --> 01:15:01.960 There was two guys from the regiment actually in Sierra Leone doing something else, 1308 01:15:02.239 --> 01:15:05.079 and one of them just happened to be a hostage negotiator, I believe, 1309 01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:10.800 and he went to the negotiations team and started asking for proof of life and 1310 01:15:10.880 --> 01:15:14.520 for these people to start doing and throwing and sending negotiations up and running from 1311 01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:18.920 literally a few hours after they'd been taken. So what was that decision point 1312 01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:23.760 where they decided that negotiations are not going to work, We're going to have 1313 01:15:23.800 --> 01:15:28.520 to send the boys in to take care of this. I think the decision 1314 01:15:28.560 --> 01:15:31.279 for us to go was made pretty early on. The actual decision for us 1315 01:15:31.359 --> 01:15:36.560 to go live on this took a few days to get to that, you 1316 01:15:36.600 --> 01:15:41.800 know. I think the incident happened on the twenty fifth. They were taken 1317 01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:47.319 on the twenty fifth of the twenty fifth of what's before September. Sorry, 1318 01:15:47.359 --> 01:15:53.359 I don't even know what months, whatever it was before September. They were 1319 01:15:53.399 --> 01:15:57.039 taken on the tenth of September and was when the operation actually went in. 1320 01:15:57.239 --> 01:16:00.560 So you know, you're talking best part of two weeks for this thing to 1321 01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:03.239 pan out and actually get to that stage where it went noisy. So a 1322 01:16:03.359 --> 01:16:06.119 fair old time and in that time, you know, we did everything we 1323 01:16:06.199 --> 01:16:10.920 could. There was two observation teams were deployed to look at both sides of 1324 01:16:10.960 --> 01:16:14.560 the river. Parachute Regiment joined us for the first time because we realized there 1325 01:16:14.640 --> 01:16:16.199 was that many people there we were going to need back up if it all 1326 01:16:16.199 --> 01:16:18.920 went wrong on the other side of the river while we were fighting on the 1327 01:16:18.960 --> 01:16:23.199 other side. So yeah, there was a lot of decisions made and a 1328 01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:25.800 lot of stuff done for the first time which hadn't been done before. So 1329 01:16:25.920 --> 01:16:29.920 it was quite in terms of operation, it was quite a groundbreaking operation. 1330 01:16:30.319 --> 01:16:33.079 And you guys were you said you flew into the car and Senegal, but 1331 01:16:33.199 --> 01:16:36.680 then you were based out of Freetown when the op happened. No, we 1332 01:16:36.880 --> 01:16:43.640 we flew into Freetown into Lungi Airport. We then drove from Lungi Airport out 1333 01:16:43.680 --> 01:16:47.359 into a place called Waterloo. There was a chemical walk jungle like an fob 1334 01:16:47.600 --> 01:16:51.319 jungle type place. It was all a tented camp basically, right, right, 1335 01:16:53.119 --> 01:16:57.319 So tell us about like kind of like the planning for this operation and 1336 01:16:57.399 --> 01:17:01.520 get ready to like that that launch point. Right, So yeah, I 1337 01:17:01.600 --> 01:17:05.079 mean we did not we we acted on every last piece of intelligence we could 1338 01:17:05.079 --> 01:17:10.159 get our hands on. So you know, we obviously had some stage throughout 1339 01:17:10.199 --> 01:17:14.880 there. They let I think they let five of the soldiers go. They 1340 01:17:14.960 --> 01:17:20.680 got thoroughly debriefed. We had the observation teams went in. After about four 1341 01:17:20.760 --> 01:17:24.319 or five days there, the observation teams went in, so they were they 1342 01:17:24.359 --> 01:17:26.720 had eyes on the village. They could tell us things I build up of 1343 01:17:26.800 --> 01:17:30.039 troops, routines, all that sort of stuff we had permanently. We were 1344 01:17:30.079 --> 01:17:33.119 asking to see proof of life, so we would see the condition of people 1345 01:17:33.199 --> 01:17:36.720 coming in out. So every last thing we could get we got, you 1346 01:17:36.800 --> 01:17:41.199 know what I mean. We had the guys. The guys gave them a 1347 01:17:41.279 --> 01:17:44.600 sat phone you know that was obviously being used all the time to talk to 1348 01:17:44.680 --> 01:17:45.920 them. You know, they were asking for all sorts of crazy stuff, 1349 01:17:45.960 --> 01:17:49.760 helicopters and you know your normal West African will have twenty million and some rough 1350 01:17:49.800 --> 01:17:51.920 diamonds and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, 1351 01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:55.439 do you know what I mean? So you know, they were spinning 1352 01:17:55.520 --> 01:17:59.520 this game the whole time of keeping it going. But you know, ultimately 1353 01:18:00.079 --> 01:18:02.279 we were trying to make a plan to get in there and get this sorted. 1354 01:18:02.359 --> 01:18:04.960 Now that the free plans we came up with. We were asked for 1355 01:18:05.039 --> 01:18:10.079 free plans, and the first plan was to take boats all the way up 1356 01:18:10.119 --> 01:18:13.960 the river from Freetown up to the rock all Creek all the way up to 1357 01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:18.279 the village and do a dawn raid. Now, when they deployed the teams 1358 01:18:18.319 --> 01:18:23.399 that went up there to do the observation stuff, they had all sorts of 1359 01:18:23.479 --> 01:18:25.560 trouble with these things, and we just thought, right, we're now going 1360 01:18:25.640 --> 01:18:28.159 to try and take the best part of one hundred and fifty people up there 1361 01:18:28.199 --> 01:18:30.359 in boats. We'll get heard coming, and then again, you know, 1362 01:18:30.439 --> 01:18:33.359 they could possibly execute these people before we get there, and we just turn 1363 01:18:33.439 --> 01:18:35.479 up to a village with some dead bodies in it. That's no good. 1364 01:18:35.600 --> 01:18:40.279 So that was written off pretty early. We then decided that we might be 1365 01:18:40.359 --> 01:18:43.079 able to walk all the way, but it was dense jungle. You can't 1366 01:18:43.119 --> 01:18:45.119 walk in dense jungle at night. It's not going to happen, you know 1367 01:18:45.119 --> 01:18:47.039 what I mean. So it'd be day moves again. The chances are not 1368 01:18:47.119 --> 01:18:51.600 being seen or heard or something going wrong, and then the village known about 1369 01:18:51.640 --> 01:18:55.319 you again and you're turning up to a part of their bodies that wasn't on 1370 01:18:56.000 --> 01:18:59.199 And then somebody came up with this idea that we'd just take two helicopters and 1371 01:18:59.319 --> 01:19:01.560 we'd fly in someone you know, a team would rope into the building straight 1372 01:19:01.600 --> 01:19:04.000 away, the rest of us would get down and fight the rest of the 1373 01:19:04.079 --> 01:19:08.640 village. Worlders was going on, and it was like it was like, 1374 01:19:08.800 --> 01:19:11.439 right, okay, that is the only option we've got that is feasible, 1375 01:19:11.439 --> 01:19:15.319 and that would probably work if it works. And so that's where the nickname 1376 01:19:15.399 --> 01:19:18.319 came Operation Certain Death, because it was like, this is absolutely crazy. 1377 01:19:18.359 --> 01:19:21.439 We're going to take two of the largest helicopters in the world, We're gonna 1378 01:19:21.439 --> 01:19:26.319 fly them into an enemy stronghold which is out numbering ers, and we're gonna 1379 01:19:26.359 --> 01:19:28.960 we're gonna we're gonna rope down out of one, we're going to try and 1380 01:19:29.039 --> 01:19:31.399 land the other one, and we're going to fight out from the middle as 1381 01:19:31.399 --> 01:19:35.439 opposed from fighting from the outside in. So it was like if you would 1382 01:19:35.439 --> 01:19:40.199 have presented that plan on a promotion course, you'd have been sent home and 1383 01:19:40.279 --> 01:19:45.319 probably demoted rather than promoted like you was incredible. It was just like this 1384 01:19:45.520 --> 01:19:47.520 is mad, this is absolute madness. And I remember when we had the 1385 01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:50.840 final set of orders, I'm still thinking to myself, they ain't gonna let 1386 01:19:50.920 --> 01:19:54.439 us do that. How are they gonna let us do that? This is 1387 01:19:54.520 --> 01:19:57.920 like, this is crazy, This is like, this is madness. We're 1388 01:19:57.960 --> 01:19:59.920 gonna lose at least a helicopter here, do you know what I mean? 1389 01:20:00.199 --> 01:20:00.680 And it was like no, no, no, you are going, you 1390 01:20:00.760 --> 01:20:03.520 are going, you are going. And you know, those helicopters had to 1391 01:20:03.560 --> 01:20:06.359 return and pick up the parachute regiment and then deliver them on the other side 1392 01:20:06.399 --> 01:20:10.520 in case there was a follow up. I mean that in some respects, 1393 01:20:10.560 --> 01:20:13.800 if we'd have been beaten on the other side, they'd have got Mullard as 1394 01:20:13.840 --> 01:20:15.760 well, So you could have then lost four helicopters full of blokes, you 1395 01:20:15.800 --> 01:20:20.479 know what I mean. Insane. So we're thinking ourselves, well, let's 1396 01:20:20.520 --> 01:20:24.319 have the orders and let's see what it is. And I remember we had 1397 01:20:24.359 --> 01:20:29.319 the orders and some of the older blokes were a bit more experienced actually went 1398 01:20:29.359 --> 01:20:31.199 to bed, and I'm thinking myself, no, no, no, I'm 1399 01:20:31.239 --> 01:20:33.800 wide eyed on bushy tailed. I was in the cookhouse. I was eating 1400 01:20:33.920 --> 01:20:36.520 thinking right, you know, there was a breakfast at three o'clock in the 1401 01:20:36.560 --> 01:20:39.640 morning. I thought it'd be ashamed if I didn't fill myself up, do 1402 01:20:39.640 --> 01:20:43.720 you know what I mean? So I literally had a great big scoff full 1403 01:20:43.760 --> 01:20:45.239 English breakfast, bacon, sausages, the whole lot. You do, i't 1404 01:20:45.239 --> 01:20:47.279 mean. And then we're ready to get on the choppers and we fly out 1405 01:20:47.920 --> 01:20:54.039 over over Freetown and we fly out to sea because what we got to do 1406 01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:57.439 is make sure that the guys are on the ground are going to give us 1407 01:20:57.439 --> 01:21:01.239 the nod to say right, it's it's it's dark that dark enough that you're 1408 01:21:01.279 --> 01:21:03.399 not going to get seen coming in, but light enough that you can actually 1409 01:21:03.399 --> 01:21:05.920 do something when you get here. Because in those days, we didn't have 1410 01:21:05.960 --> 01:21:10.079 all these nods and all this stuff that they're wearing now, we didn't have 1411 01:21:10.159 --> 01:21:12.279 none of that. It was like, you know, you mark one eyeball 1412 01:21:12.319 --> 01:21:14.399 and that was it, you know what I mean. So you know, 1413 01:21:14.680 --> 01:21:15.800 make sure that when you did finally get there, you could you know, 1414 01:21:15.880 --> 01:21:18.720 it wasn't too light that they were shooting at the helicopters from the off, 1415 01:21:19.920 --> 01:21:23.720 and so it was it was very finely balanced. And I remember we went 1416 01:21:23.760 --> 01:21:28.439 into a holding pattern outside of Freetown and it was pretty crazy. It was 1417 01:21:28.520 --> 01:21:30.640 like a figure of eight type thing and we're going round and round and around, 1418 01:21:30.640 --> 01:21:32.600 and then the load. He starts yelling at people, we're off, 1419 01:21:32.640 --> 01:21:34.760 we're off, We've got, we got, we're going, We're going. 1420 01:21:34.840 --> 01:21:39.920 And then on the ear pieces comes zero OLF for eye of control stand while 1421 01:21:39.960 --> 01:21:42.680 we're off. I remember the helicopters dropped out of the sky. I've left 1422 01:21:42.720 --> 01:21:45.159 after breakfast up there. I waspect there's a sill a cup of sausages floating 1423 01:21:45.159 --> 01:21:48.680 about somewhere. We dropped out the sky. We went down, you know, 1424 01:21:48.840 --> 01:21:51.439 sort of like a few meters from the sea, and we literally went 1425 01:21:51.560 --> 01:21:56.840 tearing off up the creek towards target. And this was it we were I 1426 01:21:56.880 --> 01:21:59.479 remember yelling at me, mate, come on with geeing each other up. 1427 01:22:00.159 --> 01:22:02.319 And then I remember we get sort of like two minutes out, and we 1428 01:22:02.399 --> 01:22:05.840 get the two minutes from the loading two minutes, and then we get thirty 1429 01:22:05.880 --> 01:22:09.840 seconds and then the red light comes on and before you know it, as 1430 01:22:09.840 --> 01:22:13.880 we're turning the last corner, the mini guns are going. You can see 1431 01:22:13.960 --> 01:22:15.239 now out of the window the stuff going on already, and it's like, 1432 01:22:15.760 --> 01:22:19.039 as the back of the helicopter came down, we're straight out, we're straight 1433 01:22:19.079 --> 01:22:24.439 into it. There's rounds going everywhere. We're engaging from behind. We're we're 1434 01:22:24.439 --> 01:22:28.279 actually end up facing the wrong way. We have to do this bizarre move 1435 01:22:28.319 --> 01:22:30.880 where once we've dealt with what's behind us, we have to turn around and 1436 01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:34.159 end up fighting across the village. Meanwhile, the team, and I mean, 1437 01:22:34.199 --> 01:22:36.479 I'm not in the scheme of things. I'm probably number eight on the 1438 01:22:36.520 --> 01:22:40.079 wirecutters. I'm nothing, but I'm in one of the teams that's fighting in 1439 01:22:40.159 --> 01:22:42.880 the village. Other end of the village. You've got the teams coming down 1440 01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:45.800 the ropes. They were securing the hostages. They've they've got the hostages. 1441 01:22:45.199 --> 01:22:48.119 They're moving out, they're fanning out, they're fighting out. The whole thing 1442 01:22:48.239 --> 01:22:51.039 was going off like Chinese New Year. To be honest, it was. 1443 01:22:51.399 --> 01:22:55.439 It was exciting. It was a it was a full on job, like 1444 01:22:55.520 --> 01:22:58.319 you know what I mean. It sounds like you guys, you know, 1445 01:22:58.439 --> 01:23:02.800 accomplished security, you know, seizing the element of surprise, getting them them. 1446 01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:05.520 I think that's what it was, all right. So here's here's something 1447 01:23:05.560 --> 01:23:09.600 I'll tell you this. Right, So, the night before there was a 1448 01:23:09.680 --> 01:23:13.039 negotiation team went down there to speak to the West Side boys and they said, 1449 01:23:13.079 --> 01:23:15.239 look, can you come up and you know, is there anything you 1450 01:23:15.359 --> 01:23:17.079 really want, and they said, can we have two boat engines? So 1451 01:23:17.199 --> 01:23:19.880 we had two boat engines because of the older we've done the drop. So 1452 01:23:20.000 --> 01:23:28.000 he just give them the boat engines. We're getting back tomorrow. Did they 1453 01:23:28.079 --> 01:23:30.079 give these two boat engines? And then some brightness park come out with the 1454 01:23:30.119 --> 01:23:32.560 idea, I'll tell you what we'll do. We'll give them about fifty cases 1455 01:23:32.600 --> 01:23:35.359 of local beer as well. So we give them a load of beer as 1456 01:23:35.399 --> 01:23:38.000 if to say, look, thank you very much, you can have the 1457 01:23:38.039 --> 01:23:39.880 beer as well. We wish you know, we wish you no hard. 1458 01:23:41.000 --> 01:23:43.439 But they would have gone home, they would have drunk that beer and then 1459 01:23:43.520 --> 01:23:45.159 got bang on the old drugs and they'd have had a wild night. So 1460 01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:49.000 by the time we're coming there, they've all got hangover. Is that that's 1461 01:23:49.039 --> 01:23:51.560 all like getting a knock on the door to get out of bed and fight 1462 01:23:51.640 --> 01:23:56.000 and they're like, oh my god, oh god, hang too late. 1463 01:23:56.079 --> 01:24:00.399 Sorry that was pretty slick. Yeah, yeah, so that was it. 1464 01:24:00.520 --> 01:24:03.079 So that was you know that that paid a big part of the element of 1465 01:24:03.079 --> 01:24:06.239 surprise. And to be fair, those two teams that we had on the 1466 01:24:06.319 --> 01:24:11.439 ground, they were proper they'd been there for a long time hiding in the 1467 01:24:11.439 --> 01:24:13.760 bushes, you know what I mean, in an enemy camp, hiding in 1468 01:24:13.840 --> 01:24:15.680 the bushes, And they crawled onto the edge of that on the day and 1469 01:24:15.840 --> 01:24:18.279 as people were getting out of bed and the helicopters were coming, and they 1470 01:24:18.319 --> 01:24:21.119 were already smacking people all over the place, do you know what I mean? 1471 01:24:21.199 --> 01:24:28.520 So that's that's he won a conspicuous gallantry cross and he that as well. 1472 01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:30.520 Do you know he proper aren't that cross? So yeah, yeah, 1473 01:24:30.520 --> 01:24:33.800 there was some there was some proper soldiering going on there. I mean, 1474 01:24:35.239 --> 01:24:40.760 yeah, wow, man, So secured the hostages and from there, what 1475 01:24:40.920 --> 01:24:44.399 was it? What was the extraction like? So yeah, so we went 1476 01:24:44.399 --> 01:24:45.960 into like a reork and I was on the reorg. I was carrying a 1477 01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:48.640 little minimei, so I've got me bypond. So I ended up sorts like 1478 01:24:49.119 --> 01:24:53.159 they've said to me, right, you take from twelve through ten or whatever. 1479 01:24:53.239 --> 01:24:56.840 And I'm facing out in this direction, and I remember there's a few 1480 01:24:56.920 --> 01:24:59.760 things on fire and bits and pieces, and I thought myself, I'll have 1481 01:24:59.800 --> 01:25:01.000 a of tea now, do you know what I mean? The old start 1482 01:25:01.079 --> 01:25:03.039 major come around and he's kicked the back of my foot. He goes, 1483 01:25:03.279 --> 01:25:05.319 you can have a brew if you want. And I had this thing where 1484 01:25:05.319 --> 01:25:09.279 I was sort of like laid in the depression in the floor and I could 1485 01:25:09.319 --> 01:25:11.640 make it. I had the gun in my shoulder, hear, and I'm 1486 01:25:11.680 --> 01:25:13.520 holding on like that, and i can see in front of me, and 1487 01:25:13.600 --> 01:25:15.439 I'm sorting over the other end. I've got me. I've got me sort 1488 01:25:15.479 --> 01:25:17.680 of like vest On. I'll get me water bottle out, I'll get me 1489 01:25:17.760 --> 01:25:20.560 mug out, I'll get the I get the stove out, like the stove 1490 01:25:20.640 --> 01:25:23.520 with me, like I put the mug on it. Fill the mug, 1491 01:25:23.600 --> 01:25:26.720 put the water away, stick everything away. The water's boiling away nicely. 1492 01:25:26.880 --> 01:25:29.039 And then you know those sash as you get the free and ones. I've 1493 01:25:29.079 --> 01:25:30.319 tipped that in and I'm stirring it away, and before you know, I've 1494 01:25:30.319 --> 01:25:33.600 got a lovely cup of tea. So I put everything away, and I've 1495 01:25:33.640 --> 01:25:36.119 sat there with me a cup of tea beyond me gun and I'm drinking away. 1496 01:25:38.039 --> 01:25:41.560 And he may kicks my foot. He's taking he's taking sort of eleven 1497 01:25:41.640 --> 01:25:44.920 through nine because we're overlapping, and he's he's kicked me on the foot, 1498 01:25:45.960 --> 01:25:47.199 and I look around and I'm like, funck, if make your own tea 1499 01:25:47.279 --> 01:25:53.079 like, do you know what? And he's like no, no, no. 1500 01:25:53.199 --> 01:25:56.800 Then he starts he starts pointing his fun nown like that, frantically going 1501 01:25:56.840 --> 01:26:00.720 like that. So as I look up where we've gone completely silent in the 1502 01:26:00.800 --> 01:26:05.159 village while people are cutting around doing their bits and pieces, he's basically the 1503 01:26:05.319 --> 01:26:09.000 enemy have decided, what's left of the enemy have decided. Well they've gone, 1504 01:26:09.039 --> 01:26:12.760 so I don't they're coming back into the village. There's there's there's a 1505 01:26:12.840 --> 01:26:15.680 few of them coming up, you know what I mean. So on the 1506 01:26:15.760 --> 01:26:19.680 guys next to me lead, we've literally sort of like waited for them to 1507 01:26:19.760 --> 01:26:25.159 get within proper range that we're not going to miss, and we've opened up 1508 01:26:25.199 --> 01:26:27.479 on them, and we've given them, we've proper sent them back into the 1509 01:26:27.560 --> 01:26:30.840 village, like sent them back out into the bushes. You know, there's 1510 01:26:30.880 --> 01:26:32.960 there's a lot of gunfire going on now because everyone's seen what's going on, 1511 01:26:33.039 --> 01:26:38.920 and you know, there's a bit more exchanging. Anyway, I've done all 1512 01:26:38.960 --> 01:26:42.600 this left handed. I've not put me a cup of tea down once. 1513 01:26:43.399 --> 01:26:46.760 So I've actually been holding a cup of tea while I'm fighting, and I'm 1514 01:26:47.239 --> 01:26:49.800 about spilling me tea. And I was never going to say anything about this 1515 01:26:49.960 --> 01:26:54.640 at all. But they made a TV program on Channel five and one of 1516 01:26:54.640 --> 01:26:58.000 the lads Colin. I can say Colin's name because he was on that program. 1517 01:26:58.800 --> 01:27:01.119 Colin told them about Colin told the TV people about it. I was 1518 01:27:01.199 --> 01:27:04.319 never gonna say nothing because it was a bit sort of like I shouldn't have 1519 01:27:04.319 --> 01:27:06.760 been having a cup of tea anyway, to be honest, Although why not, 1520 01:27:06.880 --> 01:27:09.359 I don't know, because I knew we were there, do you know 1521 01:27:09.399 --> 01:27:11.920 what I mean? But yeah, to still carry on in the fight and 1522 01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:14.119 not drop any not spilling it, I was quite proud of that, to 1523 01:27:14.159 --> 01:27:15.840 be honest, but I shouldn't have been doing it. There you go. 1524 01:27:16.560 --> 01:27:23.520 Yeah, it's it's it's a true testament to the cultural difference differences between our 1525 01:27:23.680 --> 01:27:29.399 militaries because for for US forces, it would have just been a tin of 1526 01:27:29.479 --> 01:27:32.800 Copenhagen and a big fatty in the lip, you know, a couple of 1527 01:27:32.840 --> 01:27:35.800 tea. For me, I even had a little finger poker. It was 1528 01:27:35.920 --> 01:27:45.680 proper. It was one lump or two free in one sash age that would 1529 01:27:45.720 --> 01:27:49.680 have been one tho. So it's it's like the creamer, the cream and 1530 01:27:49.760 --> 01:27:53.479 the tea. They had a tea powder and that sugar in the same things. 1531 01:27:53.520 --> 01:27:55.960 It was. It tasted like tea. I'll tell you what, after 1532 01:27:56.000 --> 01:27:58.000 having a bit of a punch up, it was better than nothing. I'm 1533 01:27:58.000 --> 01:28:00.600 going to tell you that, you know what I mean, had some Do 1534 01:28:00.680 --> 01:28:02.960 you mind telling us a little bit and you know, speak to this to 1535 01:28:03.119 --> 01:28:09.760 your level of comfort obviously, but yeah, you're what kind of weapons systems 1536 01:28:09.800 --> 01:28:13.319 were you guys on and obviously like we all see the m P fives for 1537 01:28:13.439 --> 01:28:16.239 like the c QV or the old school for for more of these village clearing 1538 01:28:16.359 --> 01:28:23.399 ups or things like this. I did you guys in my day. The 1539 01:28:23.479 --> 01:28:27.319 guys I had a minim which was you know, it was a short it 1540 01:28:27.359 --> 01:28:30.000 was an airborne minim, so I had the folding stock and a short barrel. 1541 01:28:30.760 --> 01:28:32.720 So it was it was more than maneuverable in the village. The guys 1542 01:28:32.760 --> 01:28:35.880 at m faurs just m falls, just just just short w M fours with 1543 01:28:36.520 --> 01:28:40.680 normal bags on them. And you know some some would have the undersling to 1544 01:28:40.960 --> 01:28:45.760 freeze on them. You'd have you know, all manner of grenades, dune 1545 01:28:45.760 --> 01:28:47.600 grenades, smoke gredades, you know the full sweet there was sixty six is 1546 01:28:47.600 --> 01:28:53.640 you know, they'll pull out stick sixty sixes were being launched in there. 1547 01:28:53.840 --> 01:28:59.399 Yeah, we were. We went heavy handed because you know, we we 1548 01:28:59.640 --> 01:29:01.239 we knew we were likely to be outnumbered, but b you know, we 1549 01:29:01.319 --> 01:29:03.199 didn't know if this thing was going to go on for a while. We 1550 01:29:03.239 --> 01:29:06.239 could have ended up having the you know, clearing one village and then getting 1551 01:29:06.239 --> 01:29:09.039 attacked by another, do you know what I mean? So you could have 1552 01:29:09.159 --> 01:29:12.039 ended up fighting. So you know, I took a lot of ammunition on 1553 01:29:12.119 --> 01:29:16.079 that job. I took probably probably six bags of minime, a full complement 1554 01:29:16.199 --> 01:29:20.720 of magazines. I had my pistol with me, which had a full compliment 1555 01:29:20.760 --> 01:29:25.119 of magazines. I had a sixty six, I had a few good aides. 1556 01:29:25.600 --> 01:29:27.319 You know. I didn't have no room for no warm kid. I 1557 01:29:27.359 --> 01:29:29.479 mean how I got the cup of tea and there was a miracle, you 1558 01:29:29.520 --> 01:29:30.840 know what I mean. So we went sort like we went. We went 1559 01:29:30.880 --> 01:29:34.520 ammunition heavy as opposed to because we knew if we did get stuck overnight, 1560 01:29:34.560 --> 01:29:38.279 they could always overfly and drop us a load of stuff if we needed it, 1561 01:29:38.399 --> 01:29:40.960 like you know what I mean. So the priority was to be on 1562 01:29:41.039 --> 01:29:43.520 the ground with enough ammunition to fight for as long as it took. Do 1563 01:29:43.520 --> 01:29:45.399 you know what I mean. So, yeah, that's what we did. 1564 01:29:45.119 --> 01:29:48.920 What kind of pistols for you, guysis and at that time the six the 1565 01:29:49.039 --> 01:29:54.920 six, Yeah, so I guess you prefer them to the glocks, to 1566 01:29:54.960 --> 01:29:56.960 be honest, but you know, they ran with the glocks in the end, 1567 01:29:57.199 --> 01:29:59.880 as the army ran with the blocks. I think I think they might 1568 01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:01.119 still he used the sig. I don't know. I'm not there anymore so, 1569 01:30:01.399 --> 01:30:04.079 but the sig was nice, A nice pistol to stig. It felt. 1570 01:30:04.399 --> 01:30:06.279 Yeah, it was easy to use, it was safe, it was 1571 01:30:06.479 --> 01:30:10.720 it was a great piece of kit. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. 1572 01:30:10.800 --> 01:30:15.000 Now did you guys you know, obviously you know this this is a large 1573 01:30:15.039 --> 01:30:18.279 operation for a small unit, and you know, I don't know, if 1574 01:30:18.319 --> 01:30:23.319 you're partnering with the pairs, did you guys also carry on occasion like squad 1575 01:30:23.359 --> 01:30:26.000 weapons or did you relay more on like the pairs? Yeah, yeah, 1576 01:30:26.079 --> 01:30:28.479 yeah, we took it. We took a mortar boast bass playing with his 1577 01:30:28.680 --> 01:30:30.159 so at the very end, I memb all of the last things we did. 1578 01:30:30.279 --> 01:30:33.079 We mortared like three sixty round the place, just to just to try 1579 01:30:33.079 --> 01:30:36.000 and to tell anybody else coming at the village. I mean that mortar guy 1580 01:30:36.079 --> 01:30:40.359 must have he must have killed more people than COVID because he just moreted everywhere 1581 01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:42.840 he went, you know what I mean. He was just what was out 1582 01:30:42.880 --> 01:30:45.359 for about an hour and I'm doing thing ding ding ding? How he was 1583 01:30:45.399 --> 01:30:47.640 going? He sent loads out. Yeah, so yeah, so we had 1584 01:30:47.920 --> 01:30:50.119 Yeah, we could call on anything. I mean we you know, if 1585 01:30:50.159 --> 01:30:54.159 you needed if you needed fifty cow, you get fifty cal. If you 1586 01:30:54.239 --> 01:30:57.399 needed a grenade frower, you'd get a grenade brow. If you needed you 1587 01:30:57.479 --> 01:30:59.800 know, something bigger, if you needed a javelin, if you needed a 1588 01:31:00.079 --> 01:31:01.479 land it was in my day, if you needed something big, you'd get 1589 01:31:01.520 --> 01:31:03.760 something big. It wasn't, you know. And if you need it, 1590 01:31:03.840 --> 01:31:06.079 if there was something out there that you wanted, you'd get trained up on 1591 01:31:06.159 --> 01:31:08.479 it. You go and get it, like you know what I mean. 1592 01:31:08.560 --> 01:31:11.159 So you know, if you needed a sam or or whatever, you know 1593 01:31:11.199 --> 01:31:14.000 what I mean, you get it. So it wasn't there was no restrictions 1594 01:31:14.039 --> 01:31:15.880 on that sort of stuff. If it warranted it, it would be got 1595 01:31:15.920 --> 01:31:17.720 and you'd use it and you learn how to use it. If you didn't 1596 01:31:17.720 --> 01:31:20.640 know how to use it, you know. In yeah, so Phil, 1597 01:31:20.720 --> 01:31:24.319 let's say here, what was the rest of your career, like in the 1598 01:31:24.479 --> 01:31:29.359 SAS and the army, right, So that was pretty much. That was 1599 01:31:29.439 --> 01:31:31.199 sort like me Swanton song remem The next thing I did after that was an 1600 01:31:31.239 --> 01:31:34.800 exercise somewhere where we did a whole diage and I just I fell out of 1601 01:31:34.800 --> 01:31:39.279 love with it a little bit because that was such an intense operation and at 1602 01:31:39.279 --> 01:31:43.720 that time, I mean that was two thousand obviously, you know, two 1603 01:31:43.760 --> 01:31:46.359 thousand and one. In September, things changed. But after that operation, 1604 01:31:46.520 --> 01:31:50.199 in particular, that was September, that was a year before the Twin Towers 1605 01:31:50.239 --> 01:31:56.800 fell. I just two things happened. A friend of mine, a friend 1606 01:31:56.840 --> 01:31:58.960 of mine, got killed, a very good friend of mine. He was 1607 01:31:59.000 --> 01:32:00.840 actually in the village with me. I he was killed in a way. 1608 01:32:00.920 --> 01:32:03.239 I don't know what to harp on about this because it might upset people that 1609 01:32:03.319 --> 01:32:06.279 still known, but you know, he was killed in a road traffic accident 1610 01:32:06.319 --> 01:32:11.079 and it was completely unnecessary, and it really really upset me. You know, 1611 01:32:11.239 --> 01:32:13.439 I can get I can deal with. You know, we lost Brad 1612 01:32:13.479 --> 01:32:15.439 in the village, you know, he died fighting. When they recovered his 1613 01:32:15.520 --> 01:32:18.880 weapon, there was an empty tour free smoking shell and half a magazine. 1614 01:32:18.920 --> 01:32:21.720 He went out doing the job. He went out through was fighting, he 1615 01:32:21.800 --> 01:32:26.560 was a worried The man was an absolute legend. You know, me have 1616 01:32:26.640 --> 01:32:30.600 a mate died in the center console of a car by someone who was driving 1617 01:32:30.640 --> 01:32:31.960 it too fast to shouldn't have been driving it, how he was driving it. 1618 01:32:32.079 --> 01:32:35.920 It just it really messed me up a little bit. It hurt me. 1619 01:32:36.159 --> 01:32:39.560 It hurt me, and I took to the drink and then, you 1620 01:32:39.640 --> 01:32:44.640 know, I probably punched a few too many people and got a few too 1621 01:32:44.680 --> 01:32:47.159 many rows, and I started falling out with the authorities a little bit on 1622 01:32:47.279 --> 01:32:49.840 camp, and you know, it got to the stage where a start major 1623 01:32:49.960 --> 01:32:53.800 you know, it wasn't going to stand up for me anymore. And he 1624 01:32:53.880 --> 01:32:55.840 offered me, you know, he said, look you can you can go 1625 01:32:56.000 --> 01:32:59.279 back to your unit, or you know, you can get out, or 1626 01:32:59.520 --> 01:33:01.159 he said there's not many options here for you at the moment. So I 1627 01:33:01.239 --> 01:33:03.560 said, well, I'll just get out, and I bit me bullet. 1628 01:33:03.560 --> 01:33:05.560 I said, look, I'll pay me way out. I'll get out this 1629 01:33:05.640 --> 01:33:09.359 week if I can, and I'll put my paperwork in And I paid me 1630 01:33:09.479 --> 01:33:11.840 money and I got out, and that that was me, really, And 1631 01:33:11.880 --> 01:33:15.640 I remember on my final interview, the seur at the time was away in 1632 01:33:15.720 --> 01:33:18.680 the two ic didn't know really the full picture of what was going on, 1633 01:33:18.760 --> 01:33:23.159 and he said, did I fancy going to the Reserve Battalion for the Reserve 1634 01:33:23.239 --> 01:33:27.840 Regiment for a call off period? And I just said no, point blank. 1635 01:33:27.840 --> 01:33:30.239 I didn't want to do that. I said no because at the time, 1636 01:33:30.359 --> 01:33:31.880 you know, you were you, you really were. And it sounds 1637 01:33:31.880 --> 01:33:34.239 a bit corny, and it's in that film who goes yeah, uresas or 1638 01:33:34.279 --> 01:33:36.239 nothing. That's all I wanted to be. And if I couldn't be that, 1639 01:33:36.319 --> 01:33:39.159 and I didn't want to be anything else, do you know what I 1640 01:33:39.199 --> 01:33:41.000 mean? And I didn't want to be a reservist. I didn't want to 1641 01:33:41.039 --> 01:33:43.600 do anything else. I just wanted to get out, and I got out. 1642 01:33:44.479 --> 01:33:46.800 I got out on the first of September two thousand and one, and 1643 01:33:46.880 --> 01:33:50.920 on the ninth I was driving down to where I was living and I heard 1644 01:33:50.960 --> 01:33:56.399 on the radio what happened, And I'm like, oh, jeesusitch, you 1645 01:33:56.439 --> 01:33:59.800 know what I mean? And I couldn't even go straight back in because I'd 1646 01:34:00.000 --> 01:34:01.439 made my way out. Those were the rms. I think you couldn't just 1647 01:34:01.520 --> 01:34:03.680 go straight back in. So I'm thinking to myself, right, what am 1648 01:34:03.720 --> 01:34:06.119 I going to do? Like you know what I mean? So you know, 1649 01:34:06.239 --> 01:34:09.680 my first port call was to make a few phone calls them before I 1650 01:34:09.720 --> 01:34:13.479 knew I was in Afghanistan myself anyway, working on the on the city contracting 1651 01:34:13.560 --> 01:34:16.239 circuit. So yeah, flash the bang time turn around time for me. 1652 01:34:16.520 --> 01:34:18.680 I run out of money. I run out of money, and I went 1653 01:34:18.760 --> 01:34:23.680 down to the I went down to the job center to get a loan. 1654 01:34:23.760 --> 01:34:25.520 I had no money coming in to toll. There was no work for me 1655 01:34:25.560 --> 01:34:28.359 in the UK, and I remember I had to fill a form out for 1656 01:34:28.399 --> 01:34:30.159 this money and I had to get a job interview. They had no job 1657 01:34:30.199 --> 01:34:31.640 interviews for me, and the only thing I was quit. Remember I hain't 1658 01:34:31.680 --> 01:34:34.720 no qualifications at school, none of the stuff I did in the military had 1659 01:34:34.760 --> 01:34:40.199 any qualifications that were relevant to cities. And they told me I had to 1660 01:34:40.199 --> 01:34:43.720 go for a job interviews as like a traffic marshal for schools, a lollipop 1661 01:34:43.800 --> 01:34:45.960 man, we called them. That was going to be my life. I'm 1662 01:34:46.039 --> 01:34:49.119 like, I can't have this, and so I'm going to be really sort 1663 01:34:49.119 --> 01:34:54.119 of like nine to eleven. Although it didn't do the world of favor, 1664 01:34:54.199 --> 01:34:57.279 actually at that time done me a massive favor because it meant that there was 1665 01:34:57.399 --> 01:35:00.399 somewhere I could go, go and find some work. And that's really awful. 1666 01:35:00.479 --> 01:35:02.439 It's at that bad, and I realized that. But you know, 1667 01:35:04.479 --> 01:35:08.760 when you're pushed against when your back's pushed against the wall, you've got to 1668 01:35:08.800 --> 01:35:10.399 earn your money where you can do, you know what I mean. So 1669 01:35:10.720 --> 01:35:13.840 you know, for me, it was a no brainer right to get out 1670 01:35:13.880 --> 01:35:15.600 there. And I actually wanted to go out there because you know, I 1671 01:35:15.720 --> 01:35:20.279 believed strongly I was sickened by what I saw in America. I wanted to 1672 01:35:20.279 --> 01:35:24.159 go and do something against it. I knew I couldn't probably join up straight 1673 01:35:24.199 --> 01:35:26.000 away again, so I thought, right, the best thing I can do 1674 01:35:26.079 --> 01:35:29.159 is get myself out there as a contractor and actually start trying to do some 1675 01:35:29.279 --> 01:35:31.199 good and aid the people that are in a fighting positions, you know what 1676 01:35:31.239 --> 01:35:34.079 I mean. So that my mind was made up. I was going and 1677 01:35:34.199 --> 01:35:41.159 that was it simple. Tell us about the contractors circuit then, what that 1678 01:35:41.359 --> 01:35:44.760 was like going back and forth to Afghanistan in those early years, Well, 1679 01:35:44.800 --> 01:35:47.199 when I first started it and it wasn't really an entity. There's been a 1680 01:35:47.279 --> 01:35:50.680 few sort of like mercenary type jobs in and out of Africa where guys had 1681 01:35:50.720 --> 01:35:56.560 gone and sort of tipped over Angola and places like that, and the circuit 1682 01:35:56.600 --> 01:36:00.159 as it was, you know, there was bodyguarding jobs. There was you 1683 01:36:00.239 --> 01:36:02.159 know, there was a few Arabs being looked after and a few Arabs families. 1684 01:36:02.159 --> 01:36:05.359 There was a big job in America, the Aga Khan used to get 1685 01:36:05.399 --> 01:36:09.319 looked after. You had, you know, various people being looked after. 1686 01:36:10.479 --> 01:36:14.039 But the circuits, as I knew it, and as you know, it 1687 01:36:15.840 --> 01:36:18.600 hadn't really taken off. We were sort of like pioneering. So I literally 1688 01:36:18.680 --> 01:36:26.319 turned up in Afghanistan on a training job and a CP job for a for 1689 01:36:26.399 --> 01:36:30.439 a European embassy, the European Commission's embassy who didn't have the capability of a 1690 01:36:30.520 --> 01:36:34.920 CP team and couldn't get one because everybody else was deployed. So it soon 1691 01:36:35.079 --> 01:36:39.880 became clear that there was going to be loads of work for people if they 1692 01:36:39.920 --> 01:36:43.239 could get out there. And so in the very early days, the money 1693 01:36:43.359 --> 01:36:47.000 was terrific. The jobs were secure because they wasn't the man power of the 1694 01:36:47.039 --> 01:36:50.000 field of jobs, and so in the very early days it was great. 1695 01:36:50.039 --> 01:36:54.159 We were in a massive coin we were traveling in and out, we were 1696 01:36:54.199 --> 01:36:56.960 doing heavy rotation. So we were doing sort of like we were doing, 1697 01:36:57.199 --> 01:36:59.520 you know, six to nine months on and then you know, a few 1698 01:36:59.560 --> 01:37:02.600 weeks off and then coming back in again. But you Americans are used to 1699 01:37:02.640 --> 01:37:06.199 that anyway. You know, you work long old shifts, didn't you. 1700 01:37:06.279 --> 01:37:10.680 But we were doing some long old shifts, and then it was great. 1701 01:37:10.720 --> 01:37:13.159 I finally enjoyed it. I was you know, I was making good money. 1702 01:37:13.479 --> 01:37:15.880 I was living like a rock star and leave because I had plenty of 1703 01:37:15.920 --> 01:37:17.000 money in my pocket, and I'd never had money in me pocket when I 1704 01:37:17.079 --> 01:37:19.920 was serving. I always owed this or owed that, or had spent it 1705 01:37:20.119 --> 01:37:24.520 or borrowed it. Though now I was earning. I was earning proper dollar 1706 01:37:24.520 --> 01:37:26.439 and I was going home and living like a rock star. I was like, 1707 01:37:26.560 --> 01:37:30.239 yeah, this is great, you know what I mean? Did it 1708 01:37:30.359 --> 01:37:33.239 that ever hit like sort of like a dead end for you where you start 1709 01:37:33.279 --> 01:37:36.920 feeling like I can't live this life anymore, because I mean I have talked 1710 01:37:36.960 --> 01:37:41.520 to a lot of guys that there's like a culture around contracting and it catches 1711 01:37:41.600 --> 01:37:45.079 up with guys, it does, Yeah, and it caught up with me 1712 01:37:45.279 --> 01:37:47.800 when I got too sort of like far into the rock star starts on light 1713 01:37:48.359 --> 01:37:51.720 the work was getting less, people were getting out of the military, the 1714 01:37:51.800 --> 01:37:55.640 prices were getting pushed down. You weren't earning the money you were in the 1715 01:37:55.720 --> 01:37:59.399 day. The jobs in some respects were getting more dangerous, which I didn't 1716 01:37:59.479 --> 01:38:01.840 mind, but you know, you just weren't making the money anymore. And 1717 01:38:01.920 --> 01:38:08.720 it was like you would come out and you know, I was still earning 1718 01:38:08.760 --> 01:38:11.960 good money, and I started drinking far too much, and you know, 1719 01:38:12.079 --> 01:38:15.039 I started I probably had a few mental health things going on and what have 1720 01:38:15.119 --> 01:38:18.119 you, and I medicated myself with beer and became a bit of a menace, 1721 01:38:18.199 --> 01:38:20.079 and I, you know, I got in a bit of trouble. 1722 01:38:20.119 --> 01:38:24.359 I ended up on an attempted nerder charge and actually reminded in a prison in 1723 01:38:24.399 --> 01:38:28.600 England. So yeah, I it did have an impact with me, and 1724 01:38:28.640 --> 01:38:30.760 it just it was it was it was a product of not knowing how to 1725 01:38:30.800 --> 01:38:35.199 handle that sort of money, living a lifestyle whereby you were permanently in the 1726 01:38:35.279 --> 01:38:38.880 glad to be a live club when you weren't in country, and but knowing 1727 01:38:38.920 --> 01:38:41.279 you had to go back, so you didn't really I didn't really give a 1728 01:38:41.319 --> 01:38:43.600 shit how about at home, because I was like, well, when I 1729 01:38:43.680 --> 01:38:45.600 go back, it might be my last trip anyway, because I'm taking some 1730 01:38:45.760 --> 01:38:49.560 insane risks. I remember. I remember someone asking me once i'd phoned up 1731 01:38:49.560 --> 01:38:51.640 where I phoned up my missus and said to her, look, I'm going 1732 01:38:51.720 --> 01:38:55.199 to be in such and such a town. And my mate went to me, 1733 01:38:55.319 --> 01:38:58.399 what you're telling your missus for? You know? And I said, 1734 01:38:58.479 --> 01:39:00.159 let mate, I'm telling my missus. She's the only one who cares. 1735 01:39:00.399 --> 01:39:02.439 I said, do you think anyone's going to care if you go missing? 1736 01:39:02.520 --> 01:39:05.000 I said, she's the only one who's going to put the shout out if 1737 01:39:05.039 --> 01:39:08.039 I go, if I if I don't come back tonight. You know what 1738 01:39:08.039 --> 01:39:10.399 I mean, that's the only one who cares. Because no one did. 1739 01:39:10.920 --> 01:39:14.479 Contractors, did they? They didn't you know you were out there. The 1740 01:39:14.560 --> 01:39:16.239 whole thing really was, Yeah, people viewed you as you're making the money, 1741 01:39:16.279 --> 01:39:18.920 you're taking the chance. If it goes wrong with that's your problem, 1742 01:39:18.960 --> 01:39:21.199 do you know what I mean. I don't have an issue with that. 1743 01:39:21.960 --> 01:39:25.600 I understood that, But I think there's plenty of those people that went out 1744 01:39:25.600 --> 01:39:27.640 there that didn't understand that, do you know what I'm saying? So it 1745 01:39:27.800 --> 01:39:30.920 was, yeah, it was like I say, I just I had a 1746 01:39:30.960 --> 01:39:34.079 few issues myself, and I you know, one of my issues actually, 1747 01:39:34.239 --> 01:39:38.520 if I think about it, was I desperately wanted to sign back up again 1748 01:39:38.600 --> 01:39:42.880 and you know, do the soldiering stuff onto line by now, and I 1749 01:39:43.039 --> 01:39:45.079 realized that, you know, this is what I was good for at the 1750 01:39:45.119 --> 01:39:45.840 moment, you know what I mean. So I just had to stick at 1751 01:39:45.880 --> 01:39:48.840 what I was doing. And you know, I did end up coming away 1752 01:39:48.880 --> 01:39:54.359 from Iraq in Afghanistan and going to places like Gaza and the West Bank, 1753 01:39:54.479 --> 01:39:57.399 and you know, I ended up in West Africa doing a load of stuff 1754 01:39:57.439 --> 01:40:00.239 there, and then of course the anti Pyrusy stuff kicked off, so I 1755 01:40:00.359 --> 01:40:03.079 did absolutely bundles of that as well. So yeah, it was, yeah, 1756 01:40:03.199 --> 01:40:08.039 it was you ended up just chasing the dollar, you know what I 1757 01:40:08.159 --> 01:40:12.880 mean. It was like it was. Some of it was fun, some 1758 01:40:13.000 --> 01:40:15.079 of it was good while it laughed at it, but some of it was 1759 01:40:15.119 --> 01:40:18.159 absolutely terrible. Some of it was just completely die. Working with people you 1760 01:40:18.199 --> 01:40:23.119 didn't really want to work with, taking what jobs, Which jobs did you 1761 01:40:23.239 --> 01:40:27.600 like, which did you not like? You know, I did. I 1762 01:40:27.720 --> 01:40:31.000 did some really good stuff in Gaza on a training team, uh, teaching 1763 01:40:31.199 --> 01:40:35.960 the Palestinian Guard and then subsequently moving you know when they when they got moved 1764 01:40:36.000 --> 01:40:40.479 on. We we we did a job in there looking after a power station. 1765 01:40:40.640 --> 01:40:43.159 That was that was really good. That was active, that was we 1766 01:40:43.239 --> 01:40:47.039 got a bit connectic a couple of times on that. I quite enjoyed West 1767 01:40:47.079 --> 01:40:49.720 Africa. I love doing the gold mines, you know, traveling up and 1768 01:40:49.840 --> 01:40:54.439 down, moving from site to site, moving people about, evacuating people, 1769 01:40:54.479 --> 01:41:00.680 all that sort of stuff. That was fun. Uh So there were some 1770 01:41:00.840 --> 01:41:03.119 good jobs to be had. The anti piracy could be could be all right, 1771 01:41:03.439 --> 01:41:06.800 you know, but again it was long hours at sea, you know. 1772 01:41:06.920 --> 01:41:10.199 Sometimes you could be three or four months at see. I never I 1773 01:41:10.319 --> 01:41:15.680 never saw a pirate from from started. I used to come back with a 1774 01:41:15.760 --> 01:41:18.359 lovely suntown, do you know what I mean, boots on, you know 1775 01:41:18.399 --> 01:41:20.880 what I mean. But other than that, I mean it was rubbish. 1776 01:41:21.880 --> 01:41:27.720 And so, you know, the jobs I didn't like were I ended up 1777 01:41:27.720 --> 01:41:31.439 on an oil rig once in a in Iraq, and I was like the 1778 01:41:31.520 --> 01:41:34.560 security guy for the oil rig. But then I have people from the oil 1779 01:41:34.640 --> 01:41:38.439 company who were also doing the same sort of thing as me, coming and 1780 01:41:38.560 --> 01:41:40.520 checking on me, and I'm like, well, why are you checking on 1781 01:41:40.600 --> 01:41:44.319 me? Yeah, It's just it was awful and it was long, boring 1782 01:41:44.439 --> 01:41:45.840 hours with the Yeah, I was there on my own. I was on 1783 01:41:45.920 --> 01:41:50.760 an Iraqi oil field on my own, on a rig with just the rakis. 1784 01:41:51.159 --> 01:41:55.079 You know, it was horrendous. I did some great jobs in Sadan. 1785 01:41:55.159 --> 01:41:57.199 I went down to south of Sadan. That was fun. That was 1786 01:41:57.239 --> 01:42:00.520 great again. You know, you're interacting with the locals. It was hearts 1787 01:42:00.600 --> 01:42:02.479 and minds. You were building up public confidence and all that sort of stuff. 1788 01:42:02.840 --> 01:42:06.520 Brilliant using all the skills I'd learned in SF employing them, you know, 1789 01:42:06.680 --> 01:42:10.920 loads of loads of scope for doing things my wage, you know what 1790 01:42:10.920 --> 01:42:13.720 I mean. Brilliant. But yeah, so I was lucky and I did 1791 01:42:13.800 --> 01:42:15.680 make some good money and I had a bit of fun as well, you 1792 01:42:15.680 --> 01:42:18.600 know what I mean. But like I say, eventually things at home started 1793 01:42:18.960 --> 01:42:21.399 being impacted by what I was doing, and then I did end up in 1794 01:42:21.479 --> 01:42:26.079 trouble. So you know it was going to happen one day, do you 1795 01:42:26.119 --> 01:42:29.199 know what I mean? So as it happened, it all, you know, 1796 01:42:29.359 --> 01:42:31.279 it got proved. There was nothing to be answered for. But to 1797 01:42:31.399 --> 01:42:34.159 be fair, I've done plenty wrong, you know I mean, so I'll 1798 01:42:34.159 --> 01:42:39.600 probably deserve my little stink remarks you know what I mean. I'm not going 1799 01:42:39.680 --> 01:42:43.560 to moan about it. What was like the transition process like for you, 1800 01:42:43.680 --> 01:42:45.960 because it sounds like you didn't you didn't really transition out of the military. 1801 01:42:46.000 --> 01:42:49.760 You pretty much jumped right into contracting. But then when that when you kind 1802 01:42:49.800 --> 01:42:54.079 of reached the end of your rope there, what was it like kind of 1803 01:42:54.159 --> 01:42:58.840 like becoming a proper civilian? Right Horrendously, I still don't class myself as 1804 01:42:58.880 --> 01:43:06.119 a proper civilion now. I just I'm a Metroan. I just I just 1805 01:43:08.399 --> 01:43:13.800 the first I got exposed to it really was in the media industry because when 1806 01:43:13.840 --> 01:43:16.720 I when I came out of when I came out of Winchester Prison, I 1807 01:43:16.920 --> 01:43:20.560 literally had nowhere to go. All my licenses have been revoked. So I 1808 01:43:20.600 --> 01:43:25.319 couldn't work on the security service circuit everybody knew, because it's only a small 1809 01:43:25.359 --> 01:43:29.640 circuit, you know, I couldn't get any work. I'd written my book 1810 01:43:29.680 --> 01:43:32.840 Born Fearless, it had done quite well, but I ended up in a 1811 01:43:32.880 --> 01:43:38.439 position where I was I know where to live, and so basically what I 1812 01:43:38.520 --> 01:43:41.439 done was I phoned a friend of mine, Tom. In fact, Tom 1813 01:43:41.560 --> 01:43:44.359 was on one of our podcasts of week. Tom Blakey. He lent me 1814 01:43:44.439 --> 01:43:47.800 a caravan. I took this caravan to London and I put it on a 1815 01:43:47.800 --> 01:43:50.640 building site and I used to be security for the building site. And during 1816 01:43:50.680 --> 01:43:54.600 the day I used to fill skips up and sweep the floor. And my 1817 01:43:54.880 --> 01:43:57.640 cousin used to pay me fifty pounds a day. I used to give twenty 1818 01:43:57.720 --> 01:44:00.960 five pounds of my missus and the other twenty five pan I used to use 1819 01:44:00.039 --> 01:44:02.640 to feed myself. And what I did was, I've got a couple of 1820 01:44:02.680 --> 01:44:06.199 copies of my book, and I went down to the local sort of like 1821 01:44:06.319 --> 01:44:10.479 thrift shop, the charity shop, the second hand shop, and I bought 1822 01:44:10.520 --> 01:44:13.560 myself a suit. And whenever I had a couple of hours spare, I 1823 01:44:13.680 --> 01:44:16.239 used to go into London and I would go walking around all these bars where 1824 01:44:16.239 --> 01:44:19.119 I knew that there was TV producers drinking and all that sort of stuff. 1825 01:44:19.119 --> 01:44:23.159 And as soon as I heard them say something about Iraq or Afghanistan, oh 1826 01:44:23.359 --> 01:44:27.600 oh, I've been there. Oh, And I've got a book what We're 1827 01:44:27.640 --> 01:44:29.600 looking forward? You know what I mean. And before I knew it, 1828 01:44:30.359 --> 01:44:32.520 we had those incidents in the UK, didn't we with the bombings on the 1829 01:44:32.560 --> 01:44:35.439 bridge and all that sort of stuff, and I became like the main voice 1830 01:44:35.520 --> 01:44:39.359 on Sky TV. I was on there all the time. You couldn't more 1831 01:44:39.399 --> 01:44:42.439 than k Burley, do you know what I mean? Every time something happened, 1832 01:44:42.479 --> 01:44:44.000 it was like Phil, get yourself on, tell it. I'll be 1833 01:44:44.039 --> 01:44:45.039 like. I was like, oh here I am again. I'd turn up 1834 01:44:45.079 --> 01:44:46.600 on scene. I'd be sort of like, right, give me that, 1835 01:44:46.680 --> 01:44:50.520 Mike, I'll tell you what's going on. In I was making a bit 1836 01:44:50.560 --> 01:44:55.439 of a name for myself, so you know, I was working with some 1837 01:44:55.600 --> 01:45:00.079 of the Sky News in particular. To be fair, there were some people 1838 01:45:00.159 --> 01:45:04.479 there who just were out for themselves. There was no team playing in them, 1839 01:45:04.720 --> 01:45:10.760 you know. And when I eventually left Sky it wasn't They behaved awfully 1840 01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:12.319 towards me, do you know what I mean? And bear in the mind, 1841 01:45:12.359 --> 01:45:14.479 you know, when I made that documentary in Syria, I took some 1842 01:45:14.600 --> 01:45:18.720 insane risks to get them some of the better. I remember you telling me 1843 01:45:18.880 --> 01:45:23.479 like they're sending me back in because they want to punch up for the documentary. 1844 01:45:24.439 --> 01:45:28.359 I went out of Cinder and I made sure they got everything they needed 1845 01:45:28.439 --> 01:45:30.039 and some do you know what I mean? And then they were pretty awful 1846 01:45:30.079 --> 01:45:33.479 the way they put me on a debating program, which was political. I 1847 01:45:33.520 --> 01:45:36.199 don't know nothing about policies. I just call a square a square, like, 1848 01:45:36.279 --> 01:45:39.880 do you know what I mean? So yeah, I didn't do any 1849 01:45:39.920 --> 01:45:43.079 favors, so I like. But it was the media world, and that 1850 01:45:43.239 --> 01:45:45.760 was the first time I've been surrounded by purely civilians. So everywhere I went, 1851 01:45:46.239 --> 01:45:49.279 you know, apart from that documentary actually where the cameraman was an ex 1852 01:45:49.399 --> 01:45:56.439 marine and the security guy was SBS great guys, everyone else was cilly and 1853 01:45:56.840 --> 01:46:00.279 not just sivy. They just were unreliable. Can pat you on the back, 1854 01:46:00.359 --> 01:46:04.279 but stick a knife in it at the same time, just and I 1855 01:46:04.399 --> 01:46:09.079 suddenly began to realize that, you know, no one's on your side out 1856 01:46:09.119 --> 01:46:11.720 there, no one actually cares, you know what I mean. And you 1857 01:46:11.960 --> 01:46:14.680 say the people you know used to be in the essays, they look at 1858 01:46:14.720 --> 01:46:16.720 you to go, yes, so what who cares? I don't don't you 1859 01:46:16.960 --> 01:46:19.239 understand, you know what I mean? They begin to understand, they don't 1860 01:46:19.359 --> 01:46:23.199 want to understand, you know what I mean. They understand their own life 1861 01:46:23.239 --> 01:46:25.520 and they do their own things, you know what I mean. That's not 1862 01:46:25.680 --> 01:46:28.079 everybody. That would be unfair of me to say that that's everybody. But 1863 01:46:28.159 --> 01:46:30.720 I saw a lot of it, and I suddenly realized I was in a 1864 01:46:30.760 --> 01:46:33.760 world where I'm going to have to do something about absolutely everything because nobody's ever 1865 01:46:33.800 --> 01:46:35.479 going to spoon feed me. They're not going to do it, do you 1866 01:46:35.479 --> 01:46:38.800 know what I mean, It's not going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. 1867 01:46:39.560 --> 01:46:41.720 And they would tee you up to fail, do you know. They they 1868 01:46:41.800 --> 01:46:45.159 sort like they put me on a TV program which they almost put me across 1869 01:46:45.199 --> 01:46:47.159 as being being a bit of a bigot. And I'm not. I'm not 1870 01:46:47.239 --> 01:46:49.279 bigoted to talk, you know what I mean. In fact, I'm far 1871 01:46:49.399 --> 01:46:55.159 from that. I'm I like to think I'm very central and straight with what 1872 01:46:55.279 --> 01:46:57.520 I do, do you know what I mean? And they teed me up 1873 01:46:57.560 --> 01:47:00.119 as being sort like almost ultra right wing. I'm like, I'm not like 1874 01:47:00.199 --> 01:47:03.079 that, Like you're you're a caricature. Yeah, yeah, exactly, you 1875 01:47:03.159 --> 01:47:05.800 know, and that was, you know, I found that a bit upset, 1876 01:47:05.880 --> 01:47:09.279 and to be honest, and you know, it did follow me around 1877 01:47:09.319 --> 01:47:11.640 a little bit, you know. Luckily, you know, when I started 1878 01:47:11.680 --> 01:47:14.920 doing stuff with people like Bear Grills, who's a very good friend of mine, 1879 01:47:14.960 --> 01:47:16.279 you know what I mean, people saw through that and you know, 1880 01:47:16.840 --> 01:47:19.399 I started to get a lot more work in that, But there was a 1881 01:47:19.520 --> 01:47:24.039 stage where people were sort of like labeling with me, He's just a FuG, 1882 01:47:24.600 --> 01:47:27.840 right, I have been a FuG, but I'm not. You know, 1883 01:47:28.079 --> 01:47:30.760 that's not the way I am. You pay me to be a once, 1884 01:47:30.800 --> 01:47:35.000 don't forget that. And it was a different kind of fuck, right. 1885 01:47:35.119 --> 01:47:40.600 It was like it was a rabble rouser. Not I'd have a fight 1886 01:47:40.680 --> 01:47:42.279 in a pub, you know what I mean. And I've been, I've 1887 01:47:42.319 --> 01:47:45.520 been, you know, but I would not go and bully someone in the 1888 01:47:45.560 --> 01:47:47.239 pub. I won't go and pick on a fight with someone. If you 1889 01:47:47.279 --> 01:47:50.439 look at me funny in the pub and you come and and you come in 1890 01:47:50.479 --> 01:47:54.000 front of me wanting trouble, I'm more than happy to give it to you. 1891 01:47:54.079 --> 01:47:55.439 That's how I was in the days, you know what I mean. 1892 01:47:56.800 --> 01:47:59.319 Yeah, And that's happen, and I'm not particularly proud of that. It's 1893 01:47:59.399 --> 01:48:01.319 just the way I want do mean. I was highly strung, you know, 1894 01:48:01.800 --> 01:48:04.880 And that's the way things panned out sometimes, you know what I mean, 1895 01:48:04.920 --> 01:48:08.840 And I don't think. Yeah, there's probably loads of soldiers like that 1896 01:48:08.920 --> 01:48:11.119 that, loads of soldiers will be like that in the future as well. 1897 01:48:11.119 --> 01:48:13.840 Do you know what I mean, if you train somebody, if you repeatedly 1898 01:48:14.199 --> 01:48:16.039 put them you know, take some aggression and all the rest of it. 1899 01:48:16.399 --> 01:48:19.119 Eventually when they've had a drink and the chips are down, if you push 1900 01:48:19.199 --> 01:48:21.560 them in the wrong way, they're gonna push you back, and they're going 1901 01:48:21.640 --> 01:48:24.359 to push you back as odd as they want, you know what I mean. 1902 01:48:24.399 --> 01:48:28.399 And that's that's that's yeah. Yeah, you know it's interesting that you 1903 01:48:28.760 --> 01:48:31.600 you say, how they set you up and how is every better person for 1904 01:48:31.640 --> 01:48:38.920 themselves. Because we interviewed Tanto, Chris Peranto from Benghazi a while, you 1905 01:48:39.000 --> 01:48:42.119 know, a couple of years ago, and he talked about when he came 1906 01:48:42.159 --> 01:48:45.479 out, he was trying to speak as truth and like the right wing media 1907 01:48:45.560 --> 01:48:50.319 latched onto him and he thought he thought they were like doing him a favor, 1908 01:48:50.880 --> 01:48:55.439 but then they started they just they just started trying to use him. 1909 01:48:56.039 --> 01:48:59.199 You know. It's it's not like there's a left and right media. It's 1910 01:48:59.319 --> 01:49:01.000 just there. They're all trying to make money and they're going to use you 1911 01:49:01.079 --> 01:49:03.800 however they can, of course. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, so 1912 01:49:04.159 --> 01:49:06.960 you know people did from the right, they'd put clips of me up some 1913 01:49:08.079 --> 01:49:10.840 of the stuff that I said, and it probably might have fitted their agenda, 1914 01:49:10.880 --> 01:49:14.399 but it wasn't said derogatory against the others. It was said because I 1915 01:49:14.520 --> 01:49:16.920 see, I can't help saying what I mean. I probably said lots of 1916 01:49:17.000 --> 01:49:20.479 other things that people probably wouldn't expect me to say. You know, I 1917 01:49:20.520 --> 01:49:24.840 would stand up for people's rights, I'd stand up for people's religions, I 1918 01:49:24.880 --> 01:49:29.159 would stand up for the way people are. I don't anybody from being anything 1919 01:49:29.199 --> 01:49:30.600 other than a human being. And that's the way I am, you know 1920 01:49:30.640 --> 01:49:33.600 what I mean. So, and I think the military teaches you that, 1921 01:49:33.960 --> 01:49:36.119 you know, I don't look at I look at someone as a soldier. 1922 01:49:36.479 --> 01:49:39.560 I don't look at so I don't care if you're black, white, yellow, 1923 01:49:39.640 --> 01:49:42.359 pink, brown, green, if you what what what way you swing 1924 01:49:42.399 --> 01:49:45.560 in the bedroom, or what religion you are. I couldn't care. Rather 1925 01:49:45.600 --> 01:49:46.920 a good soldier, a bad soldier, or you're not a soldier, you 1926 01:49:46.960 --> 01:49:50.000 know what I mean. So that's you know, I've got no bias at 1927 01:49:50.039 --> 01:49:57.159 all against anybody, right, Yeah, So how did it? How did 1928 01:49:57.199 --> 01:50:00.439 you deal with that when when you started realizing you know, at first, 1929 01:50:00.479 --> 01:50:04.680 you think I'm you know, I'm a veter owned a first force veteran. 1930 01:50:04.880 --> 01:50:09.239 I have something to say, these people seem interested in it. Then as 1931 01:50:09.359 --> 01:50:12.560 time goes on, you realize that this is a very like you know, 1932 01:50:12.720 --> 01:50:16.479 dog eat dog world, Like how did you kind of remedy that in your 1933 01:50:16.520 --> 01:50:20.720 mind? Well, it's upsetting. It's upsetting at first you look at it 1934 01:50:20.720 --> 01:50:23.920 and you think you've used me. There, you've used me there. So 1935 01:50:24.119 --> 01:50:26.359 my rule of thumb now, as I do things, I want to do. 1936 01:50:27.039 --> 01:50:30.760 So I did things maybe that weren't even paid, but I wanted to 1937 01:50:30.840 --> 01:50:34.600 do. So, you know, I became the I became an ambassador for 1938 01:50:34.960 --> 01:50:40.119 various different things. I started doing stuff that promoted things in a good light. 1939 01:50:40.640 --> 01:50:44.840 I started doing things that you know, made me feel happy as opposed 1940 01:50:44.880 --> 01:50:46.880 to just chasing the dollar and going on your program because you want me to 1941 01:50:46.920 --> 01:50:49.479 say this, that or the other. And that's how this radio station was 1942 01:50:49.560 --> 01:50:53.479 born, you know, because you know, we were stopped with Scott and 1943 01:50:53.600 --> 01:50:57.560 Johnny and you know, we sat around the table and we decided we wanted 1944 01:50:57.560 --> 01:51:00.239 to do something ourselves. And you know, at the time, I don't 1945 01:51:00.239 --> 01:51:01.840 want to have me hand out and be asking everybody for work all the time. 1946 01:51:01.840 --> 01:51:03.960 I'll find my own work, Thank you very much. And you know 1947 01:51:04.039 --> 01:51:06.920 when it's when it's ours and we do what we we can say what we 1948 01:51:08.039 --> 01:51:09.960 want, do you know what I mean? And then you'll find out who 1949 01:51:10.000 --> 01:51:13.279 the real who the real fill is because you'll see the real feel because you're 1950 01:51:13.359 --> 01:51:16.079 I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna put myself on my own channel and and 1951 01:51:16.760 --> 01:51:19.560 and try and bend what I'm saying. Am I I'm gonna I'm gonna put 1952 01:51:19.560 --> 01:51:23.199 myself on my own channel as me and tell you what I want to say. 1953 01:51:23.199 --> 01:51:26.399 Do you know what I'm saying? So tell tell us about Force Radio, 1954 01:51:26.640 --> 01:51:29.000 like how that came about and what it is, what you guys are 1955 01:51:29.079 --> 01:51:32.960 doing so Force Radio. Yeah, so lockdown happens. Not a lot going 1956 01:51:33.000 --> 01:51:35.640 on, was there. And towards the end of Lockdown, I was an 1957 01:51:35.640 --> 01:51:39.760 ambassador for a T shirt company called Force Wear that do really well. That 1958 01:51:39.880 --> 01:51:42.920 they're they're really good. They do forces skewed t shirts. They've got a 1959 01:51:42.960 --> 01:51:45.319 great range, over five hundred designs. Check them out on forcewar dot com. 1960 01:51:45.439 --> 01:51:48.159 Right. So there there are a great bunch of you guys and they're 1961 01:51:48.199 --> 01:51:51.600 veteran owned and veteran run and they make some really cool stuff. And the 1962 01:51:51.640 --> 01:51:56.079 guy that run that a guy called Scott. You know, I've been I've 1963 01:51:56.119 --> 01:51:59.520 reached out to him and they made me an ambassador, and so I used 1964 01:51:59.520 --> 01:52:00.880 to do a had a fair few bits with them, and I used to 1965 01:52:00.920 --> 01:52:03.760 do a bit of a live feed and a few bits and pieces and some 1966 01:52:03.880 --> 01:52:08.000 advertising and where they're gear and all that sort of stuff. And we just 1967 01:52:08.079 --> 01:52:12.159 got talking me Johnny and Johnny's work works with them as well, works for 1968 01:52:12.199 --> 01:52:15.640 Scott's done a lot done, been with Scott for years. And I think 1969 01:52:15.720 --> 01:52:20.800 it was Scott was moaning about having his adverts turned off on Facebook, and 1970 01:52:20.960 --> 01:52:23.720 one of us, and I can't remember if it was Johnny on me, 1971 01:52:23.760 --> 01:52:25.920 he turned around and said something to the effect of, well, why don't 1972 01:52:25.920 --> 01:52:28.880 we make our own station and then we can advertise what the what the hell 1973 01:52:28.920 --> 01:52:31.399 we want when we want, and nobody can turn us off. And that 1974 01:52:31.680 --> 01:52:36.720 was Is that pretty fair? Johnny's looking at me pretty much how it was 1975 01:52:36.760 --> 01:52:40.560 born, do you know what I mean? And then after that, you 1976 01:52:40.600 --> 01:52:43.800 know, Scott being Scott and Johnny and Johnny and the like a couple of 1977 01:52:43.880 --> 01:52:45.800 rats up a drain pipe. They don't let anything go. And we didn't 1978 01:52:45.840 --> 01:52:49.520 know nothing about this industry whatsoever. So We're like thinking, it's either going 1979 01:52:49.560 --> 01:52:54.800 to be extremely difficult or it's going to be extremely hard. And we've worked 1980 01:52:54.840 --> 01:52:57.960 extremely hard and we've made it look extremely easy. And I think, you 1981 01:52:58.000 --> 01:53:00.520 know, we've done a great job of what we've done. And I don't, 1982 01:53:00.600 --> 01:53:02.079 you know, I don't like to blow our trumpet, but I think 1983 01:53:02.119 --> 01:53:05.239 we've done an absolutely outstanding job of what we've done. We've we've built something 1984 01:53:05.279 --> 01:53:09.760 worth having. Our radio station is superb, you know, we got we've 1985 01:53:09.760 --> 01:53:12.319 got lots of listening all over the world, funny enough, loads of listeners 1986 01:53:12.359 --> 01:53:17.960 in America. Force Radio. It's it's a thing of beauty. That's how 1987 01:53:17.960 --> 01:53:20.640 I describe it. A thing. What is it that you guys do? 1988 01:53:20.800 --> 01:53:25.000 I mean you said you're like seventy something episodes in I mean, what what? 1989 01:53:25.199 --> 01:53:28.439 What is? What is the mission? Once we set the radio station 1990 01:53:28.600 --> 01:53:33.039 up and the radio station plays plays over over three channels online daily. So 1991 01:53:33.159 --> 01:53:35.760 we've got a twenty four hour radio station, all right, So you can 1992 01:53:35.800 --> 01:53:40.840 listen to Force Radio twenty four hours a day online, okay. And we've 1993 01:53:40.880 --> 01:53:44.239 got three different stations on that. We've got a sort of generic music one, 1994 01:53:44.359 --> 01:53:46.560 we've got an anthems one, and we've got a dance music one, 1995 01:53:46.680 --> 01:53:49.640 so and they run concurrently together all the time. So that's twenty four to 1996 01:53:49.640 --> 01:53:53.399 seven Force Radio is running. And then we looked at it and thought, 1997 01:53:53.439 --> 01:53:55.000 right, we need to do a little bit more than this, because the 1998 01:53:55.079 --> 01:53:57.640 radio station isn't just going to be the only thing we could possibly get out 1999 01:53:57.640 --> 01:54:00.520 of this. So we decided we start podcasting. We came up with a 2000 01:54:00.600 --> 01:54:03.840 debrief podcast which is mine and I've interviewed loads of really cool people, Billy 2001 01:54:03.880 --> 01:54:08.399 Billingham, lots of SF guests we've had. We've just had Mandy who was 2002 01:54:08.439 --> 01:54:11.159 a was a fire pilot. Super What a story she has, do you 2003 01:54:11.199 --> 01:54:12.760 know what I mean? What a woman that woman is, you know what 2004 01:54:12.800 --> 01:54:15.439 I mean, she's really really great. So we've been we've been blessed, 2005 01:54:15.439 --> 01:54:17.720 We've had some really good and so now we're about sort of like we're just 2006 01:54:17.760 --> 01:54:23.039 about we're just about creating cool content, keeping the radio station going, and 2007 01:54:23.119 --> 01:54:26.279 who knows, if we could expand in and maybe doing other things, you 2008 01:54:26.359 --> 01:54:29.640 know, perhaps making a documentary one day or something like that, then let's 2009 01:54:29.680 --> 01:54:30.319 see where it goes, you know what I mean. But for now, 2010 01:54:30.640 --> 01:54:33.640 you know, we're gonna we're gonna try and build something that's absolutely worth having 2011 01:54:33.880 --> 01:54:39.319 a community based type radio station for people who are like minded and get on 2012 01:54:39.439 --> 01:54:41.600 with each other and all that sort of stuff, you know. Money. 2013 01:54:41.640 --> 01:54:45.560 So that's what we want. And uh that's a Force Radio dot for radio 2014 01:54:46.199 --> 01:54:55.119 Force Radio Live not live. Yeah. Yeah, that's fantastic. I mean, 2015 01:54:55.760 --> 01:55:00.279 like you're going all out, like not only with the podcast, but 2016 01:55:00.439 --> 01:55:04.039 you've got mute. I'm gonna have to I think if you met if you 2017 01:55:04.119 --> 01:55:08.560 met Scott, who met Johnny if and I've said, this is my first 2018 01:55:08.640 --> 01:55:11.000 book, so I'm going to paraphrase a little bit from my first book. 2019 01:55:11.000 --> 01:55:13.159 If you're going to be a bear beer grizzly Yeah, you know what I 2020 01:55:13.239 --> 01:55:15.840 mean. If you if somebody gives your backside to kick, make sure you 2021 01:55:15.880 --> 01:55:18.079 put your biggest boots on and kick it as hard as you can do. 2022 01:55:18.159 --> 01:55:21.319 I mean, so we are in the process of kicking the media backside. 2023 01:55:23.960 --> 01:55:27.600 Was that was that cannonball run or that if You're going to be a bear 2024 01:55:27.680 --> 01:55:30.880 beer grizzly bear. I'm not sure, but I did I paraphrase because I 2025 01:55:30.960 --> 01:55:34.640 used it in one of my books. Yeah, I don't know. It 2026 01:55:34.720 --> 01:55:38.479 might be kind I might have robbed it indvertently. From somebody else. Now 2027 01:55:38.479 --> 01:55:42.119 I'm trying to remember anyway, it doesn't matter. So on your just out 2028 01:55:42.159 --> 01:55:48.359 of curiosity, no no, no, no, now on your dance channel, 2029 01:55:48.399 --> 01:55:51.239 or we talked about ed M or we talked about disco, like what 2030 01:55:51.560 --> 01:55:57.159 kind of tunes are we going to hear? You can do you garage you? 2031 01:55:57.239 --> 01:56:00.119 Yeah, everything you describe that attle bit more, I'm in it. 2032 01:56:00.720 --> 01:56:02.600 Awesome if you want to, you want to, You want to have your 2033 01:56:02.640 --> 01:56:08.960 lights bouncing around the room and move your hands funny and yeah, be my 2034 01:56:09.039 --> 01:56:11.359 friend, that's where you need to be. And actually, we've got some 2035 01:56:11.560 --> 01:56:14.720 really cool DJs working for us. We've got a guy called Danny Rampling who 2036 01:56:14.800 --> 01:56:16.840 was an IB for DJ in the day. He is proper, he is 2037 01:56:17.199 --> 01:56:20.239 Google Danny Rampling. You will not be disappointed. And he's our Saturday night 2038 01:56:20.319 --> 01:56:24.640 act. We've got g Gettison who does put the show together for us on 2039 01:56:24.680 --> 01:56:27.680 a on a Friday night. He's up and coming. He's a Danny Rampling 2040 01:56:27.720 --> 01:56:30.920 in the making. We got a girl called so Dunk and amazing girl. 2041 01:56:30.000 --> 01:56:32.720 So we've got some We've got some really good talent. And again, you 2042 01:56:32.800 --> 01:56:38.000 know, we're recruiting from from a force's background where we can do. So, 2043 01:56:38.479 --> 01:56:43.399 you know, Danny was ten power Gee gettis what was he? He's 2044 01:56:43.439 --> 01:56:45.239 gonna kill me now if I get it wrong. But anyway, yeah, 2045 01:56:45.319 --> 01:56:48.800 ge getnis, all survey members, all our proud careers and all doing something 2046 01:56:48.880 --> 01:56:55.319 completely different doing it well. Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah. So check 2047 01:56:55.359 --> 01:56:58.760 out Force Radio dot live and uh there will be a link down in the 2048 01:56:58.840 --> 01:57:02.279 description. And also shout out to our friends at Casa Carabello Cigars. Check 2049 01:57:02.359 --> 01:57:10.439 them out at Cassocarabeo dot com. Awesome cigar company, Phil Any final thoughts, 2050 01:57:10.479 --> 01:57:13.680 anything else you want to get out there. We really appreciate you sharing 2051 01:57:13.720 --> 01:57:17.399 your story with us. Man, I've look, it's been real fun being 2052 01:57:17.479 --> 01:57:20.640 on the show that if you are watching this, give us a follow on 2053 01:57:20.760 --> 01:57:24.399 Instagram. Go on, you might just find it a bit of fun. 2054 01:57:24.439 --> 01:57:27.239 I'll try to be fairly relaxed on my social media channels, you know, 2055 01:57:27.279 --> 01:57:30.159 I mean to have a bit of fun, bit of motivation. Everything's positive 2056 01:57:30.199 --> 01:57:32.399 on my media channels. So say, give us a follow on here as 2057 01:57:32.399 --> 01:57:36.000 well, and hopefully maybe one day I'll get myself over to you or you'll 2058 01:57:36.000 --> 01:57:39.239 get yourself over to me. We you know, we can press some flesh 2059 01:57:39.600 --> 01:57:43.479 drink some beer and have another good laugh and put another episode together for someone 2060 01:57:44.640 --> 01:57:46.720 like a great time. Where can people find you on Instagram? What's the 2061 01:57:46.800 --> 01:57:55.880 instagram? Ham Instagram at big Field CAMPIONI okay, everything that big Field camping 2062 01:57:55.920 --> 01:57:58.560 with me. So if you if you google big Field Campion or at big 2063 01:57:58.640 --> 01:58:03.079 Field Camping on Instagram. Funnily enough, TikTok a Big Field Campion zero one 2064 01:58:03.159 --> 01:58:08.000 off in climb on there because someone there's there's about ten field campions on TikTok 2065 01:58:08.039 --> 01:58:10.399 and there's only one that's me, and I haven't managed to get better yet. 2066 01:58:10.439 --> 01:58:16.600 So yeah, all the TikTok challenges that they do, the dances and 2067 01:58:16.960 --> 01:58:20.439 dances and all that, I haven't done any I've done a few. I've 2068 01:58:20.600 --> 01:58:24.800 I've done a few of the press up challenges, and yeah we eat a 2069 01:58:24.840 --> 01:58:29.319 couple of chilis and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, okay, 2070 01:58:29.479 --> 01:58:34.279 there would be grand daughter sometimes. That's awesome. That's awesome. Uh No, 2071 01:58:34.439 --> 01:58:38.159 Phil, this has been a lot of fun. Man, I haven't 2072 01:58:38.239 --> 01:58:44.159 laughed this hard in a while. Next Friday, we're gonna have a retired 2073 01:58:44.239 --> 01:58:47.479 c I a officer on the show. Uh served in ground Branch. Uh 2074 01:58:47.800 --> 01:58:51.760 served as a chief of station in Europe, did a lot of really interesting 2075 01:58:51.760 --> 01:58:56.600 stuff. We're gonna have him in studio. I'm excited about that. Phil, 2076 01:58:56.760 --> 01:58:59.319 again, thank you so much for joining us tonight. It's great to 2077 01:58:59.359 --> 01:59:01.319 reconnect with you. You. Yeah, what pleasure, buddy, Phil. 2078 01:59:01.399 --> 01:59:04.560 Before we go, I know we mentioned them passing, but I just want 2079 01:59:04.600 --> 01:59:09.199 to say these out loud for people listening on the podcast. You have two 2080 01:59:09.239 --> 01:59:14.439 books out. One is Born Fearless, Commando param Yeah, Commando Para mercenary 2081 01:59:14.640 --> 01:59:16.720 sas Pirate Hunter and I forgot. Do we have questions for Phil? Oh? 2082 01:59:16.920 --> 01:59:20.680 We do? Uh? And then the second one is Big Phil Campion's 2083 01:59:20.760 --> 01:59:28.560 Real World says Survival Guide. So so guys check those out. Yeah, 2084 01:59:28.640 --> 01:59:33.640 your Survival Guide just came oh no, twenty fourteen and then twenty eleven. 2085 01:59:34.119 --> 01:59:38.000 Well, I wrote Who Dares Wins as well, which is another book, 2086 01:59:38.159 --> 01:59:40.520 is the second part to my life story. So oh, I see it. 2087 01:59:40.560 --> 01:59:44.520 I'm sorry about that. Yeah, Phil, we may have so much 2088 01:59:45.279 --> 01:59:49.800 questions for you if you got the more questions. Yeah, sorry about that. 2089 01:59:49.920 --> 01:59:54.560 Almost I almost forgot about it too. Yeah, that's right. That 2090 01:59:54.840 --> 01:59:57.359 was plugging me book. They'll finod me book if they won't have a look 2091 01:59:57.399 --> 02:00:12.239 for it, you know, uh, to publish a rich anyway, let 2092 02:00:12.239 --> 02:00:17.199 me get to the questions. Are these coming live now? Yeah, they've 2093 02:00:17.199 --> 02:00:21.039 been coming in during the discussion. We used to we used to sort of 2094 02:00:21.279 --> 02:00:26.560 ask him during the show as they would come up so that they could be 2095 02:00:26.960 --> 02:00:29.560 because a lot of times they were mastered to what the person was talking about. 2096 02:00:29.880 --> 02:00:32.239 But it is, but we just kept on interrupting people because that, 2097 02:00:32.399 --> 02:00:36.600 you know, to ask the questions. So now we we let you tell 2098 02:00:36.640 --> 02:00:41.359 your story and then we then we go to all the questions and people have 2099 02:00:41.479 --> 02:00:47.359 sent in, so we have three right now. Mcintirety three. Thank you 2100 02:00:47.520 --> 02:00:51.800 very much. Did you know or ever meet Cameron Spence? If so, 2101 02:00:51.960 --> 02:00:56.960 what was he like? No? It didn't No, No I don't know. 2102 02:00:57.720 --> 02:01:02.000 Yeah, Uh, thank you very much. If Phil has what if 2103 02:01:02.039 --> 02:01:06.800 Phil has one? What is his favorite operation? Uh? The s A 2104 02:01:06.920 --> 02:01:13.279 O. The says pulled off in World War two? Do you know what? 2105 02:01:13.439 --> 02:01:15.880 Probably my favorite story actually is not it's not even an operation. Is 2106 02:01:15.920 --> 02:01:20.359 when they were first setting up, they raided the they raided the Kiwis camp 2107 02:01:20.359 --> 02:01:26.239 and nicked the piano. And so that's a bit of me that that's a 2108 02:01:26.279 --> 02:01:29.319 bit of me. That's sort of like I'm setting up a Special Forces a 2109 02:01:29.399 --> 02:01:31.520 special Forces regiment, but I'm not doing anything until I've thought of my napiw 2110 02:01:31.520 --> 02:01:35.000 out with a piano and a few beers. It's a bit of me there. 2111 02:01:35.279 --> 02:01:39.680 But there was some tremendous operations and there's too many to sort of even 2112 02:01:39.800 --> 02:01:44.279 even think about going down, all of which were you know, tremendous guys 2113 02:01:44.600 --> 02:01:48.520 at that time doing doing extremely cool stuff. So yeah, I think the 2114 02:01:48.600 --> 02:01:53.760 piano story always sticks out for me, but the rest of them absolutely phenomenal, 2115 02:01:53.960 --> 02:01:58.159 phenomenal times I've been in the regiment, Scotchy, thank you very much. 2116 02:01:59.520 --> 02:02:03.279 What for did you take in Northern Ireland? And why? I don't 2117 02:02:03.319 --> 02:02:06.880 know? Okay, Yeah, So we would basically we would get tasked. 2118 02:02:06.920 --> 02:02:10.920 We wouldn't always know why we were taking the photographs. You might just get 2119 02:02:10.960 --> 02:02:13.680 a front door and get told we want to know everyone who's been in and 2120 02:02:13.720 --> 02:02:15.439 out of that door. You then go and find somewhere you could see that 2121 02:02:15.560 --> 02:02:18.680 front door from, whether it be a bush, a derelict, or somewhere 2122 02:02:18.720 --> 02:02:21.479 you could hide up, and you'd literally stay there, sometimes in excess of 2123 02:02:21.479 --> 02:02:26.880 three or four weeks, and take photographs of that said door and you wouldn't 2124 02:02:26.880 --> 02:02:30.000 even know why or who it was. Sometimes it was coming in and out 2125 02:02:30.000 --> 02:02:31.800 of there. You'd pass on up the chain and they'd do what they needed 2126 02:02:31.840 --> 02:02:33.319 to do and that would be it, Like you know what I mean. 2127 02:02:33.359 --> 02:02:35.600 So it could be a door, it could be it could be anything that 2128 02:02:35.680 --> 02:02:38.359 could you know, they could just ask you, you know, can you 2129 02:02:38.399 --> 02:02:40.920 go and take a photograph of you know, can you wait on this thing 2130 02:02:40.920 --> 02:02:43.399 and see if you see this car? We're looking for a car with this 2131 02:02:43.479 --> 02:02:46.680 rench plate? And it could be anything. Yeah, So you very often 2132 02:02:46.800 --> 02:02:49.840 didn't know. In fact, ninety nine percent a time I would not know 2133 02:02:50.119 --> 02:02:54.800 why or what it was or even sometimes who it was that I was taking 2134 02:02:54.840 --> 02:02:58.159 photographs off. And that's done just to keep it's a need to know basis. 2135 02:02:58.319 --> 02:03:00.119 Yeah, you know what I mean, And you just need to know 2136 02:03:00.159 --> 02:03:01.239 what you need to do. Then they do what they've got to do. 2137 02:03:01.399 --> 02:03:04.520 What what what you found out for them? You know, out of curiosity. 2138 02:03:05.039 --> 02:03:11.239 You did that while you were with the uh the is it the Hampshire? 2139 02:03:11.880 --> 02:03:14.640 Yeah, the Royal Regiment and the Princess as well as the Wroyal Regiments. 2140 02:03:14.640 --> 02:03:16.800 So yeah, they're both the both infanty units. And I did it 2141 02:03:16.840 --> 02:03:21.000 with both of them. So would I be wrong in saying that those are 2142 02:03:21.279 --> 02:03:27.840 classically sort of uh, conventional infantry units. Yes, yep, conventional infantry 2143 02:03:27.880 --> 02:03:32.239 units. But what it was s F isn't the hugest. It isn't the 2144 02:03:32.319 --> 02:03:36.720 hugest in the world. And you know, they didn't have enough guys right 2145 02:03:36.840 --> 02:03:41.399 with everything going on to do everything they needed to do, so they had 2146 02:03:41.479 --> 02:03:45.560 to farm some of it out. So they set up every battalion that went 2147 02:03:45.600 --> 02:03:48.079 to Northern Ireland had a copp platoon and those copp platoons would pick up some 2148 02:03:48.279 --> 02:03:51.000 of the stuff that special forces couldn't do, or didn't have time to do, 2149 02:03:51.159 --> 02:03:55.319 or needed done in a hurry. So then did they for that cup 2150 02:03:55.359 --> 02:03:58.600 platoon? Did they send you to like or did they teach you how to 2151 02:03:59.119 --> 02:04:02.720 you know, photograph like you Oh yeah, yeah, you did a photography 2152 02:04:02.800 --> 02:04:06.720 course and you had to do this thing called uprating, which basically meant that 2153 02:04:06.840 --> 02:04:11.760 you had to sort of trick the film the camera and it was all done 2154 02:04:11.800 --> 02:04:14.760 with that normal, normal film in my day, so it wasn't there was 2155 02:04:14.840 --> 02:04:17.239 no digital, so you had to learn how to uprate and stop the film 2156 02:04:17.279 --> 02:04:19.560 from getting grain in the eye. It was it was an absolute nightmare. 2157 02:04:19.560 --> 02:04:24.319 It really was you and you could go out and you could end up taking 2158 02:04:24.399 --> 02:04:26.840 photcasts for a week, come back in and the whole thing if you've got 2159 02:04:26.880 --> 02:04:30.119 this, if you got these numbers wrong or the or the settings wrong, 2160 02:04:30.640 --> 02:04:32.800 you could mess the whole thing up. Come back in and photos developed and 2161 02:04:32.880 --> 02:04:35.680 go right, we can't read any of that or see yea and no. 2162 02:04:36.359 --> 02:04:39.760 So yeah, there was a lot riding on it. It was really difficult 2163 02:04:39.800 --> 02:04:42.640 work. And then just towards the end of the time I was doing it, 2164 02:04:42.720 --> 02:04:45.399 you know, video cameras were coming out and it was getting a little 2165 02:04:45.399 --> 02:04:46.640 bit easier. But even then, you know, we were talking, we 2166 02:04:46.720 --> 02:04:49.800 were taking lenses in there sometimes that were as big as me. Right, 2167 02:04:49.960 --> 02:04:56.159 this lens celestron, it was absolutely huge. You were trying to hide this 2168 02:04:56.319 --> 02:04:59.279 thing in a bushlight, you know, give us. Yeah, it was 2169 02:04:59.359 --> 02:05:02.880 fun. Yeah, that's awesome. And that's why I was wondering, because 2170 02:05:02.920 --> 02:05:06.439 you know, you have this you know, conventional entestrea and you guys are 2171 02:05:06.479 --> 02:05:10.880 out there doing really a kind of wrecky sneak and peek, you know, 2172 02:05:11.319 --> 02:05:15.560 sneak and peak type stuff, and so yeah, it's good. It gives 2173 02:05:15.560 --> 02:05:17.199 you an insight, and it gives you. You know, if you're that 2174 02:05:17.279 --> 02:05:19.960 way in coin an infantry unit and you want to take it to the next 2175 02:05:20.079 --> 02:05:23.920 level, it gives you a great insight into what the other into what the 2176 02:05:24.000 --> 02:05:29.079 other guys are doing right right. Oh, Phil, thank you so much 2177 02:05:29.119 --> 02:05:31.640 for joining us. Man people out there, go check out Force Radio dot 2178 02:05:31.720 --> 02:05:36.199 Live. Really appreciate this interview. Thank you for sharing, you know, 2179 02:05:36.279 --> 02:05:41.399 your life story with us. Phil, And you know we're we'd love to 2180 02:05:41.439 --> 02:05:44.000 have you back on the show sometime. You want to show the next chapter. 2181 02:05:44.960 --> 02:05:46.560 Yeah, love to go, love to come over and see. Yeah, 2182 02:05:46.720 --> 02:05:51.239 okay, what's you want us know? Next time you're come up with 2183 02:05:51.920 --> 02:05:55.920 you can make our Christmas party this year. We'll we'll we'll make sure we 2184 02:05:56.039 --> 02:06:00.399 have Figgie pudding. But I mean I'm in, I'm in. Judge it 2185 02:06:00.479 --> 02:06:04.039 once to me. I'm telling you all right, guys, we'll see all 2186 02:06:04.079 --> 02:06:05.000 of you on Friday.