1 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,320 Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of My JavaScript Story. This week 2 00:00:12,359 --> 00:00:15,080 we're talking to Dean Radcliffe. Dean, do you want to say hello? 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:20,199 Hello? Yeah, I'm usually recording from home. I don't remember if we 4 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,640 recorded with you from home, but kind of weird times. And no, 5 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,079 i was in an ISO booth at the office and now I'm in the ISO 6 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,560 booth that is my basement office down here. Yeah, a lot of people 7 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,960 working from home these days. Do you want to just give us a brief 8 00:00:37,039 --> 00:00:42,920 rundown of who you are and what you're known for? Yeah, known for 9 00:00:43,119 --> 00:00:47,359 I'm still working on that farm. I'm a software developer. I like to 10 00:00:47,399 --> 00:00:53,200 say, I've been doing web development since the table tag was the new hotness. 11 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:59,759 And so i work at G two in Chicago, and I'm in a 12 00:00:59,759 --> 00:01:04,840 little suburb just north of Chicago called Evanston. Okay, And uh yeah, 13 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:11,000 So I've been a dot net developer, a Ruby developer, and a full 14 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:19,560 stack JS developer and instructor, boot camp instructor, and so yeah, I've 15 00:01:19,599 --> 00:01:23,760 kind of had like those those different stages of my career. And now we're 16 00:01:23,799 --> 00:01:30,799 working on you know, front end interactivity is like my my specialty right now. 17 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,640 When I'm building a new product. G two I is the company that 18 00:01:34,719 --> 00:01:37,840 I call to help me find a developer who can build it. G two 19 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,719 I is a hiring platform run by engineers that matches you with React, React 20 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,560 Native, graph, QL and mobile developers that you can trust. Whether you 21 00:01:45,599 --> 00:01:49,239 are a new company building your first product or an established company that wants additional 22 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,799 engineering help, G two I has the talent you need to accomplish your goals. 23 00:01:53,239 --> 00:01:56,280 Go to G two I dot co to learn more about what G two 24 00:01:56,319 --> 00:01:59,359 I has to offer. In my experience, G two I has linked me 25 00:01:59,439 --> 00:02:01,680 up with experiencest engineers that can fit my budget, and the G two I 26 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,159 staff are friendly and easy to work with. They know how product development works 27 00:02:06,439 --> 00:02:08,360 and can help you find the perfect engineer for your stack. Go to G 28 00:02:08,439 --> 00:02:15,240 two i dot co to learn more about G two I. Nice and G 29 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:23,000 two is the company that you could go and like compare tech tools. Yeah, 30 00:02:23,039 --> 00:02:27,120 it's the YELP for software. There you go, Yeah, very cool. 31 00:02:27,199 --> 00:02:31,039 Well, this show is a show where we actually explore your code journey. 32 00:02:31,159 --> 00:02:36,000 So we'll start out with, yeah, how you got into programming, 33 00:02:36,039 --> 00:02:38,520 and we'll just kind of work our way through dot net and Ruby and JavaScript 34 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:45,840 and kind of see where how you got where you are now? So let's 35 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,759 go ahead and just yeah, roll back to the very beginning. How did 36 00:02:47,759 --> 00:02:54,960 you get into programming? Programming was a thing where I wanted to play video 37 00:02:55,039 --> 00:03:01,960 games. I had a Natari twenty six hundred was my first console unit. 38 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:09,639 I loved it. I wanted to do more. And then I got a 39 00:03:09,719 --> 00:03:20,759 Calico Atom, which was a It used cassette tapes to store data as opposed 40 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:25,080 to like a floppy disk or a hard drive, and it lets you write 41 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:31,159 basic So I liked like the visual arts too, and there was one and 42 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:38,879 my mom was aid, she's alive, but she did knitting, and so 43 00:03:38,919 --> 00:03:45,159 I liked patterns and visual patterns, and I tried drawing, and then I 44 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:51,560 learned that I could write commands in a computer a language and it would draw 45 00:03:51,639 --> 00:03:59,080 for me. Oh nice. Yeah. I was also only child of a 46 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,000 single mom. So one of the things that would happen is she would like 47 00:04:02,039 --> 00:04:05,719 take me to a store where there'd be an array of computers, right, 48 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:11,080 and she would know that she could leave me there and I wouldn't leave. 49 00:04:12,599 --> 00:04:18,040 She could go do some aisles of shopping and come back and I'd be like, 50 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:23,480 Mom, look, it's my name going Dan D D Dean, you 51 00:04:23,519 --> 00:04:26,879 know, like in text in the terminole, you know, or doing some 52 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,079 sort of thing like where I could I could figure out in a few minutes. 53 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:35,120 So it just came from a love of of figuring out how to make 54 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,639 stuff move. How old were you, I'd say, like ten or eleven? 55 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:46,040 Nice? Yeah, So I guess I'm wondering, then, when did 56 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,360 you know that you were going to do this for a living. Let's see, 57 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:56,759 certainly not when I went to college, because I would like the thought 58 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:02,040 of engineering. I like the thought of civil engineering because I thought, you 59 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,680 know, maybe there's some sort of a way to like contribute to society. 60 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:16,920 But I also had a real love of the Spanish language and Latino LATINX culture, 61 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:26,000 and so I knew that I wanted to study abroad in Spain in college, 62 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:31,399 and the College of Engineering did not have enough room in the schedule for 63 00:05:31,439 --> 00:05:35,920 me to pull off a study abroad semester. Right, so I did, 64 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,839 oh, you know, did the easy thing, just math in computer science. 65 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,279 Yeah, that's the diploma right there, you know, there you go. 66 00:05:45,959 --> 00:05:50,319 Because there was a way to do math in computer science and go to 67 00:05:50,399 --> 00:05:56,879 Spain. And when I was in Spain spring semester of nineteen ninety six. 68 00:05:56,959 --> 00:06:05,279 I had an internship at a company called uh siber Mundi and uh Cybermundi dot 69 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,720 e S, which no longer exists, but you can go through the wayback 70 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:15,879 machine and find it was a little scrappy web development firm that was doing uh 71 00:06:16,639 --> 00:06:24,439 uh, what do you call it? Live streaming of concerts and football, 72 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:30,759 which is soccer games and you know, kind of some brochure wear. Uh 73 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,160 have you heard that term? For like just a few pages, like a 74 00:06:33,519 --> 00:06:38,160 site that's like what you would use WIS for, but in the old days 75 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:43,279 there was no WIS. So yeah, So basically, like I got to 76 00:06:43,399 --> 00:06:50,720 actually work on web projects while living in Spain and out till four am and 77 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,639 uh taking ci esta, you know, with my coworkers, and like it 78 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,319 was great. So I was kind of hooked once I got into like an 79 00:07:00,399 --> 00:07:05,160 actual team, you know, production environment, I was. I was pretty 80 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:12,439 hooked, and I almost didn't finish my college degree actually because I heard that 81 00:07:12,439 --> 00:07:18,560 that was the cool thing to do. I worked for Bill Gates and I 82 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:26,240 had gotten a job in web development as a part time job my senior year, 83 00:07:26,439 --> 00:07:30,560 and I was leaning into that, so much. I started to drop 84 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,920 some of my coursework, but I went back. I was on the five 85 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:42,240 year plan, right and and then I yeah, so so then yeah, 86 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,639 I was I was like math and computer science was like, there's probably a 87 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:51,279 job I can get out of this. But really I didn't even need my 88 00:07:51,399 --> 00:07:57,399 degree to have gotten that job, because I was hired because of my internship, 89 00:07:57,439 --> 00:08:01,279 not because of my degree. Yep, makes sense. So you go 90 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,800 out, you get the internship, you're building stuff for the web. You 91 00:08:05,879 --> 00:08:09,360 mentioned you worked for Bill Gates. No, No, I was just inspired 92 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,399 states like, well, if if you can drop off, drop out of 93 00:08:15,399 --> 00:08:18,319 college and become a billionaire, that sounds like something I want to do. 94 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:24,319 Yeah, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Yeah yeah, so yeah, so 95 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,920 you get through college, how did you wind up in dot net? Uh? 96 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:33,200 So? There was a lot a lot of Microsoft web development in the 97 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:39,919 beginning days. Actually the shop that I was in was Java initially, but 98 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:46,000 but Microsoft had a really big presence, and you know, I don't know, 99 00:08:46,039 --> 00:08:50,080 they just they just they seemed you know, basically, they weren't boot 100 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:56,919 camps right right at that at that time, and there was less open source 101 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,960 going on. It wasn't just like there was PHP I had worked in PHP, 102 00:09:03,159 --> 00:09:05,080 but I don't know. It's like, if you wanted to level up, 103 00:09:05,759 --> 00:09:11,399 you needed like a course of study kind of right, and Microsoft had 104 00:09:11,399 --> 00:09:18,759 that in spades. And there's also this kind of a notion of a career 105 00:09:18,799 --> 00:09:24,159 path, Like I always felt like I enjoyed explaining things tutoring. I did 106 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:31,000 math tutoring in college and stuff, and Microsoft had a career path that included 107 00:09:31,639 --> 00:09:37,200 the Microsoft Certified Trainer credential, and I did that. I became a Microsoft 108 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,799 Certified Trainer over several years, and so I felt like I was progressing each 109 00:09:41,879 --> 00:09:48,519 certification test I took. Now I know how all this sounds now to boot 110 00:09:48,519 --> 00:09:54,639 campgrads, computer science major certifications. I know how that all sounds right now. 111 00:09:54,799 --> 00:10:01,799 But it was legit, the most legit way to level up and get 112 00:10:01,879 --> 00:10:07,600 visibility promotions. There were companies that I worked at who were like, we 113 00:10:07,639 --> 00:10:11,879 want to have this many Microsoft certified people on our staff so we can get 114 00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:18,200 discounts to the server software. And so they had programs like that. So 115 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,639 yeah, when I was doing it at the university, I have computer engineering 116 00:10:22,639 --> 00:10:26,600 degree and so yeah, we started off with Java. You mentioned Java, 117 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,480 but yeah, it was the same deal, right, I was a part 118 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,000 time student, but if I went and got my certification, I pretty much 119 00:10:33,039 --> 00:10:41,840 had a guaranteed job, right yeah. And you know with systems engineering and 120 00:10:41,919 --> 00:10:48,159 those certifications, the MCSE Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer was such like the big credential. 121 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,320 Oh yeah, time, Like, what is the equivalent body of knowledge 122 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,360 of that these days? Do you have any idea, like is it like 123 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:01,240 DevOps but like something more specific? I don't know. I mean back in 124 00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:05,279 the day it was the MCSE, or you could go get the RHC, 125 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,919 which was the Red Hat Certified Engineer, you get your CCNA, which was 126 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:16,080 the Cisco Certified Network Administrator. Those were the ones that they were talking about 127 00:11:16,159 --> 00:11:22,279 back then. I don't know if they really have that level of certification now, 128 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,240 and especially where a lot more of it has moved to open source systems 129 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:33,440 like Kubernetes and you know, cloud Foundry and things like that. I don't 130 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,840 know that they're really certifications that are in any way official on those. But 131 00:11:39,519 --> 00:11:46,600 you can certify on like AWS, right they have an AWS certification or I 132 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,679 wouldn't be shocked if Microsoft has an Azure certification because at their conferences they have 133 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:58,240 free you can go take the cert test for free oh at build and ignite. 134 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:03,120 So yeah, you know, for the particular clouds, I can see 135 00:12:03,159 --> 00:12:09,639 that that's kind of probably the closest thing at this point. Yeah yeah, 136 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,399 well yeah, I mean different, different industry trends come and go. But 137 00:12:15,159 --> 00:12:18,799 you know, for for all the haters of certifications out there, it was 138 00:12:18,799 --> 00:12:24,879 certainly useful at a time. I don't really include, not highly visibly anyway, 139 00:12:24,799 --> 00:12:28,679 these certifications on my resume anymore, but I think they're there in a 140 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:33,639 little call out somewhere, you know that that people are probably not reading. 141 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,799 But but you know, I'll tell you what I enjoyed about it was that 142 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:43,840 it was like a course of study and solving the problems that your employers and 143 00:12:43,919 --> 00:12:50,679 clients throw at you. I just felt very boxed in by those problems specific 144 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:56,639 huh. And if you just want to kind of develop your your Bob Ross 145 00:12:56,639 --> 00:13:01,919 painting palette of all the colors that you can use, you know you're going 146 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,279 to have to self study somewhere. And so I appreciated having a systemic way 147 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:13,960 of self study. Yeah. Well even today, I mean you have plural 148 00:13:13,039 --> 00:13:16,559 site or you know, some of the other course systems out there, right, 149 00:13:18,039 --> 00:13:20,799 and they'll walk you through step by step how to do stuff. You 150 00:13:20,879 --> 00:13:24,480 to me has courses like that. True, true, there's a lot of 151 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:30,240 that. One interesting thing that I found has almost gone away is the assessment 152 00:13:30,399 --> 00:13:35,639 component. So you can watch it, you can see it, you can 153 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:41,120 follow along, and I know wrote memory is like, you know, a 154 00:13:41,519 --> 00:13:46,679 frowned upon phrase, but you know, it's kind of useful when something is 155 00:13:46,759 --> 00:13:50,360 right up there in you're nogging, and so like, I don't look at 156 00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:56,960 tests as a way to to shame people or you know, make people feel 157 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:03,080 like you know, they they don't know it all. But like I find 158 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,480 that, you know, the preparation for a test and the taking of the 159 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,919 test and getting a thing wrong. I don't like to get things wrong. 160 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,320 So when I do a practice test and I get some things wrong, I 161 00:14:13,399 --> 00:14:18,519 like actually go and study that stuff and I remember because you know. So 162 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,919 it's like I kind of think that some of the follow along while I code 163 00:14:22,159 --> 00:14:26,679 kind of course where this is the assessment component. So I actually have like 164 00:14:26,039 --> 00:14:31,279 written real time assessment tools. Like when I was a teacher, I was 165 00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:33,799 like, so, guys, I've been talking at you for months. You've 166 00:14:33,799 --> 00:14:37,360 been building projects. I've seen your projects. I know you know some stuff, 167 00:14:39,039 --> 00:14:43,200 but other than what you actually included in your project, What do you 168 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:48,159 remember from this course? Just so I know, and also if you didn't 169 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,840 remember it, here's a print out with the links to all the references so 170 00:14:52,879 --> 00:14:54,399 that you can go reference it. I just want to send you away with 171 00:14:54,559 --> 00:15:00,240 more than just your projects, which is probably, in all fairness, you're 172 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:01,720 going to get the job. But I also want you to be able to 173 00:15:01,799 --> 00:15:07,720 answer some of those interview questions that are a little more knowledge oriented and less 174 00:15:07,759 --> 00:15:13,600 practice oriented. Yeah that makes sense well, and to a certain degree, 175 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:18,120 if you understand the patterns and you can explain them. You know, that's 176 00:15:18,159 --> 00:15:20,600 not something I mean, you'll see it in their code, but it's different. 177 00:15:20,679 --> 00:15:24,159 You can actually, yeah, break it down and explain it to somebody 178 00:15:24,159 --> 00:15:26,440 else. Yeah. I mean I still copy and paste from stack overflow, 179 00:15:26,519 --> 00:15:31,080 but I like to know a little bit more about what I just pasted in 180 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,879 and why it worked. Yeah, that makes sense. You said you then 181 00:15:35,919 --> 00:15:41,519 transitioned into Ruby. So what was that move like? So this is this 182 00:15:41,559 --> 00:15:48,480 is actually a fun story. There was Oh god, this is a really 183 00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:54,759 fun story. So I was in my last like full time Microsoft dot net 184 00:15:54,799 --> 00:15:58,279 position. I didn't I didn't know what was going to be my last, 185 00:15:58,679 --> 00:16:06,440 but the call to teaching, uh was, uh was was calling me again, 186 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,840 and I don't know, a wanderlust was entering my bones at this time. 187 00:16:11,919 --> 00:16:18,080 And I got a call. You know, I actually put in my 188 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,279 two weeks notice at this Microsoft shop. You know what did it for me? 189 00:16:21,639 --> 00:16:27,559 Share Point? I was done. I'd had enough of SharePoint. I 190 00:16:27,639 --> 00:16:37,320 just could not bear that's funny to code share Point anymore. And uh so 191 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:41,759 I gave my two weeks notice. And you know, it's kind of awkward, 192 00:16:41,799 --> 00:16:48,120 your final two weeks. You're like you're a lame duck. And I 193 00:16:48,159 --> 00:16:52,159 was trying to wrap things up and trying to kind of teach my coworkers on 194 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:59,200 my my stuff. And then I got a call U saying that there was 195 00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:03,759 a contract dot net position in a shop that was dot net and Ruby, 196 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,680 and I said, how soon do they want me? They said, how 197 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:17,640 soon can you start? I said to my boss two weeks? Do you 198 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,599 really do you need me here? Or can I pick up an opportunity? 199 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:26,759 He said, go ahead, pick up an opportunity. I went stopped at 200 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:33,400 Sears, Yes, Sears, the good old days. I'm like a dinosaur. 201 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,440 Sears is aren't around anymore. You're not that much older than I am. 202 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,440 No, no, I know, no weird dinosaurs, dude, but 203 00:17:44,839 --> 00:17:52,400 uh uh. And I bought a pre wrapped shirt and tie and a pants 204 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:59,240 and then went to the contract that afternoon. Oh wow, in those clothes. 205 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,519 That's funny, only to find out that they didn't require that at all. 206 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,640 I mean, they were a Ruby shop in the early days of Ruby. 207 00:18:08,319 --> 00:18:12,079 They just had this one client that was on dot net. So anyway, 208 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,759 there I was a dot net developer outnumbered by all these Ruby devs, 209 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,640 and I was like, what is this Ruby thing you are on? And 210 00:18:23,559 --> 00:18:27,519 would you like to see how good I am at subversion? And they're like, 211 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:36,559 you haven't heard of get subversion? Man? That brings back memories. 212 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,839 Yeah, and so this is a really neat environment where I had a lot 213 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:47,559 of people who were just a different breed of software developer, different skill set, 214 00:18:48,079 --> 00:18:56,440 you know, weren't necessarily the college educated, formally certified type, were 215 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:03,200 really great at building great web products. And so I kind of I said, 216 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:08,039 I had a crush on Ruby at that time. And yeah, so 217 00:19:08,079 --> 00:19:17,240 that's that's what got me into that. I built an app for me to 218 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:23,559 learn Ruby. It's a real time player to player chess game. No, 219 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,960 AI just like a board and you can move pieces and I can move pieces, 220 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:30,759 and I see your moves and you see my moves. So I've kind 221 00:19:30,759 --> 00:19:37,599 of always been into real time because I don't like stuff that needs refreshing stuff. 222 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:45,240 Yeah, yeah, yeah No. Trello is a nice real time ticket 223 00:19:45,319 --> 00:19:52,880 updating system at Lassie and Jira, I struggle with all the time. They 224 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,599 know it. I have nice conversations with them on Twitter. I send them 225 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,559 support, you know, tickets, and you know we're working on it. 226 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,759 I'm not just a hater. Anyway. I loved real time and I built 227 00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:08,200 like a chess learning app, and my pitch was kind of can I join 228 00:20:10,079 --> 00:20:15,119 the rails team, the Ruby rails team? And then I feel like I 229 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:21,319 was close to doing that, but things happened at the company. They let 230 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:26,920 the dot net client go, they let me go, and I was onto 231 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:32,240 the next thing. That's funny because my first development job I was a Ruby 232 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,720 guy at a dot net shop, and when the Ruby client went away, 233 00:20:34,759 --> 00:20:41,559 they let me go. Oh really yeah nice. So anyway, so actually 234 00:20:41,599 --> 00:20:44,920 I want to try something with you. I just I just tried this in 235 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,119 an earlier meeting it's the virtual fist bump, which like we're kind of like 236 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,119 obliged to do. Can we can we see like how that goes here? 237 00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:57,279 Yeah? Okay, all right, I went pretty well. Yeah, okay 238 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,519 with the measure of the virtual l bow bump on my last call, just 239 00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:06,960 to be funny, nice, Nice. Have you thought about learning to do 240 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:10,759 native iOS development? Are you using Swift at work? Or maybe you've considered 241 00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:14,160 writing applications for mac os. We have a podcast that covers all of that 242 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,200 called I Freaks. We have a new panel and a lot of exciting things 243 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:22,000 to talk about, So come check us out at ifreakshow dot com. Yeah. 244 00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:26,400 So Ruby in a dot net shop dot net in a Ruby shop? 245 00:21:26,079 --> 00:21:32,880 Yeah, interesting. It was an interesting kind of crossover time. So where 246 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,400 did you wind up at then with Ruby? And how did you wind up 247 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:42,839 transitioning to JavaScript? Okay? So Ruby was man, it was fascinating. 248 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:48,680 It was a lot a lot of learning in retrospect. I was kind of 249 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,759 early in the ruby anrails you know, adoption. How far back were you? 250 00:21:55,519 --> 00:22:00,519 So? I think there had been three or May before rails cops. 251 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,720 Okay, yeah, so I'm not sure exactly on that map. Yeah, 252 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,480 that's what we're talking what twenty ten? Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe I 253 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,400 think it was a little before that actually, because I actually two thousand and 254 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:21,759 eleven, I ended the three year jobs to two thousand and eight, So 255 00:22:21,839 --> 00:22:25,079 yeah, maybe it's around two thousand and six or seven. I was like 256 00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:29,839 when I was doing some Ruby stuff, and you know, I think I've 257 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,000 always I'm talking to you, Charles, and you're a developer, and I 258 00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:40,599 know that our audiences developers, so I'm over emphasizing the development part of my 259 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,519 life. But like the truth is, like, although I'm very passionate about 260 00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:51,200 development, like I've also been very passionate about like drumming and like music and 261 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:56,200 stuff. So I think when my Ruby phase hit, I was kind of 262 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,200 just I was very interested at first, and then I was kind of coasting 263 00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:08,759 for a long time. And then there were some really awesome JavaScript developers in 264 00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:14,160 the company that I was doing, Rubiat, and I had kind of overlooked 265 00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:18,279 JavaScript. It was easy to overlook before two thousand and seven. Man, 266 00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:25,039 it was easy because there wasn't even the jQuery type of stuff, like you 267 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:30,839 were like manually dealing with cross browser stuff, and like back end was like 268 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:37,440 a place of control and consistency, and I liked that. But I saw 269 00:23:37,559 --> 00:23:41,480 like stuff in JavaScript that yet again blew my mind that I didn't think was 270 00:23:41,519 --> 00:23:45,000 possible. I've been working inside of these class oriented languages, and when I 271 00:23:45,039 --> 00:23:49,000 saw like a function inside of function inside of function, I was like, 272 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:56,079 why would you do that? It's classes, there's classes, and they have 273 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,759 methods, and methods don't have methods. What are you all thing? Yeah, 274 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:06,000 And it was such a challenge to my worldview that like I eventually just 275 00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:08,799 had to find out, you know, what was going on. And I 276 00:24:08,839 --> 00:24:18,160 had my chess learning project that had used the knockout JavaScript framework, you know, 277 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,880 which is kind of written by some got net folk, and so I 278 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,880 don't know, it's just it's like it was like, maybe it's time to 279 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:33,279 look at JavaScript again. And then like a turning point for me was when 280 00:24:33,759 --> 00:24:40,519 so I now kind of left dot net. I was focusing on Ruby with 281 00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:45,640 a little bit of JavaScript, and then this company that I was at around 282 00:24:45,799 --> 00:24:51,519 two thousand and nine twenty ten had said, we think our clients need a 283 00:24:51,599 --> 00:24:56,000 Microsoft Excel ad in, so your options for implementing that are dot net, 284 00:24:56,799 --> 00:25:03,799 and I okay about starting it in dot net, but I wanted to like 285 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:11,759 reuse styles from the main app so that had the same look and feel, 286 00:25:11,559 --> 00:25:17,960 and I just said, why don't we use a dot net shell and then 287 00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:23,039 do like a browser control and ACTIVECTS control, you know, on the form 288 00:25:23,079 --> 00:25:26,319 so that when they go to the AD and they they're in a web app. 289 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,640 It was just hosted inside of Excel, right and with some dot Net 290 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:37,759 bindings to talk to Excel, and it worked really fabulously. The team grew, 291 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,000 the clients were happy, the number of clients grew, and I'm like, 292 00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:47,319 you know, JavaScript, you can really kick butt with JavaScript. And 293 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,359 there was a lot that I didn't have to re implement because also, you 294 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,480 know, from two thousand and seven to two thousand and ten, you know, 295 00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:59,279 you're seeing a lot more open source and a lot more like jQuery plugins 296 00:25:59,519 --> 00:26:03,640 and tools. So it's like, why would I turn my back on that 297 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:11,200 tool kit and all and that community if I could just use that stuff inside 298 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:18,359 of a Microsoft Excel environment. And so it worked. It worked pretty well, 299 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,319 and so that kind of convinced me that JavaScript was was the thing I 300 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:29,160 was good at, and that front ends and dealing with all of the timing 301 00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:36,440 concerns and event driven nature of them that just proved to be super super interesting, 302 00:26:37,319 --> 00:26:42,039 and Ruby you don't have this idea of like multiple things going on at 303 00:26:42,079 --> 00:26:45,759 the same time in the same way. Generally, I know, people put 304 00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:51,920 threads. You know, your rails apps don't typically use threads, no, 305 00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:57,480 and you know they instead they use infrastructure. They use reddish sidekill, they 306 00:26:57,559 --> 00:27:03,079 use these outer band things and all those things that you need infrastructure to accomplish. 307 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,880 On the Ruby side, you can do win JavaScript like just like straight 308 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,519 up, like as far as like offlining something, you know, yeah, 309 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:17,640 getting a callback later, you know, having concurrency. It looks like you 310 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,759 want to challenge that point a little bit, Go right ahead, like, 311 00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:23,519 let's let's talk about it. You're reading me pretty well. No, it's 312 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,960 it's interesting because I remember having this conversation, especially when Node started taking off, 313 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:37,759 and effectively it wound up being mostly due to the evented model in JavaScript 314 00:27:37,799 --> 00:27:41,960 as opposed to I mean, people were talking about how it had non blocking 315 00:27:42,039 --> 00:27:48,759 io, which Ruby also has. People would bring up a bunch of different 316 00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:53,319 things related to that, but yeah, essentially it was just the way that 317 00:27:53,880 --> 00:28:02,920 Node handled threads and handled callbacks and hand you know, basically slotting in the 318 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,680 different tasks. But you know, people would people misunderstood I think a lot 319 00:28:07,759 --> 00:28:15,039 of times that the multi threadedness of especially no JS, it was still processor 320 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,839 bound and so it was you know, it had some of those same things. 321 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,119 I don't know if they've solved that since then. I still I use 322 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,519 note and I just don't pay attention to that, but m yeah, yeah, 323 00:28:25,559 --> 00:28:30,559 I mean it's definitely a luxury on the front end to not have to 324 00:28:32,319 --> 00:28:37,960 be as concerned about starving other connections, right, And it's also nice, 325 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,640 yes, I agree in JavaScript that yeah you can you can say okay, 326 00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:45,039 do this later, or do this when this come back, or do this 327 00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:49,000 you know, under those circumstances. And yeah, Ruby doesn't have really a 328 00:28:49,119 --> 00:28:52,640 strong native way to do that. Yeah. Now, I did work with 329 00:28:53,640 --> 00:29:00,519 some folks at test double uh huh, and they had the Ruby concurrency library, 330 00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:06,039 right, and Jerry D'Antonio was maintaining it's very cool. I mean, 331 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:11,160 futures these kinds of abstractions over threads. I think that's really promising on the 332 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:17,839 Ruby side, and think it shows that like you can work with abstractions that 333 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,160 are at a higher level than threads, and those abstractions look actually very similar 334 00:29:22,359 --> 00:29:27,319 in Ruby and JavaScript, yeah, which to me is a sign that they're 335 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,799 a more robust building block than like rolling your own threads a lot of the 336 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,160 time, it's never yeah, a blanket rule. So well, and they're 337 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,160 working on adding features to the Ruby language itself to allow better concurrency across process 338 00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:44,960 you know, multi core processors and all kinds of stuff. So yeah, 339 00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:48,599 it's definitely an interesting world. But yeah, it's it's there's a multi fronted 340 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:53,160 battle, right yep. Well, and ultimately it's just down to what tool 341 00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:56,960 is going to get you the job done and save you the most time, 342 00:29:57,079 --> 00:30:02,759 money, effort, resources, is infrastructure, you know, whatever you're measuring. 343 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,519 Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I mean, I know, like 344 00:30:06,599 --> 00:30:11,759 I kind of frame my career mostly in like the technologies yeah, that I've 345 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:18,960 kind of gone through and how they've motivated that. Maybe to round it out, 346 00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:22,799 like do you have any other like direction I should you know, maybe 347 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:29,480 talk about what would people want to know about a twenty three year developing a 348 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,039 dinosaur or twenty one or whatever. I don't know, stop coming. Yeah, 349 00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:34,319 it's funny to think about that, you know, it's like, wow, 350 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:40,680 it's been that long. But I guess kind of one of the things 351 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,480 that I look for in a lot of these is just you know, is 352 00:30:42,519 --> 00:30:48,480 there an overarching theme or lesson that you've noticed, you know, over the 353 00:30:48,519 --> 00:30:52,880 course of your career, right, something that has come up frequently, or 354 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,920 something that you've learned, you know, moving from one technology to the next, 355 00:30:56,319 --> 00:31:00,559 or you know, working with different people and companies on different projects. 356 00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:07,000 You know, I think, yeah, I think I want to talk a 357 00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:14,599 little bit about something that I heard. Uh, there was a motivational speech 358 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,160 by by somebody, well I know who it is, but I'm not trying 359 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,960 to like promote the person, but rather like the idea, you know, 360 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,799 which was that once a person's back was to the wall and they had like 361 00:31:32,359 --> 00:31:36,599 no fallback plan, once they were all in on a thing, that's when 362 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,000 they found the clarity to tackle the challenges in front of them. Right. 363 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:51,079 And I can definitely say that as a junior developer, and even long after 364 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,359 I've been given the title senior, which we have a little bit of title 365 00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:00,559 inflation in this field. Let's let's let's be honest, because I think I'm 366 00:32:00,599 --> 00:32:07,759 still trying to grow into the senior or the architect. Oh gosh, but 367 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:15,880 there's a lot that I took for granted that was going on around me, 368 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:22,279 and it was a sense that I had kind of gotten soft, like I 369 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:29,279 didn't have my back to the wall anymore. And I don't know why I 370 00:32:29,359 --> 00:32:31,799 felt that or how it came on, but it was. That was when 371 00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:39,680 I decided, just in like twenty fourteen or twenty fifteen, to both be 372 00:32:39,839 --> 00:32:45,480 involved in the community and say that it isn't just my job. It's like, 373 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:51,960 am I part of this fabric of this very interesting growing community and take 374 00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:58,559 some responsibility on for like I ran a meetup for over twelve months, so 375 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,519 taking on more response stability that my job didn't force me to. And then 376 00:33:01,559 --> 00:33:10,279 also I left my job and became a consultant Denius Solutions Incorporated. Yes that's 377 00:33:10,319 --> 00:33:15,200 my GitHub alias as well, and so I had to sing for my supper 378 00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:20,960 and I had to really find out what it took to make clients happy and 379 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:29,400 and not be such a technologically minded person but be also like a relationship and 380 00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:34,160 service oriented person. And I'm you know, definitely that's like a growth path 381 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,279 for me. And I don't think it has anything to do with what age 382 00:33:38,359 --> 00:33:42,319 you are or when you start that I happen to work on a team where 383 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,200 I kind of find everyone on the team to already be in that mindset and 384 00:33:46,559 --> 00:33:53,319 that's really awesome, but to take on responsibilities that you that you don't have 385 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:59,160 to And remember, it's not just about the technology. But I personally do 386 00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:04,000 believe that there's a lot that is about the technology. There are answers, 387 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:10,440 ye as we're seeing right now. Technology answers certain problems, and the difference 388 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:15,599 between a good use of technology and a bad one can leave a lot of 389 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:21,920 problems on the floor in my opinion, So I do care about the technology, 390 00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:29,000 and my growth path for me personally has also been to like care as 391 00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:37,239 much or more about the people. Yep. Yeah, it's interesting. When 392 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,840 I got into programming it and into technology, you know, and got my 393 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,719 first tech jobs, yeah, I was so focused on the technology, and 394 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,679 what I figured out is that, especially as things have gone on and gotten 395 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:54,440 more complicated, the ultimate hack is people, you know. So if you 396 00:34:54,519 --> 00:34:58,239 can work well with people, if you can communicate well with people, if 397 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,239 you you know, you get along well with people, that that's going to 398 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,800 be the thing that drives you forward. Yeah, you have to have tech 399 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,360 skills, but those other things are really what's going to make things successful. 400 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,480 Yeah. There's an architect that I work with who has said that he's thinking 401 00:35:16,559 --> 00:35:23,159 of becoming a teacher because he feels that he's kind of topped out on the 402 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:30,559 tech skills right that he can that he can have and and so he and 403 00:35:30,679 --> 00:35:34,760 he's like, I'm gonna, yeah, potentially just move to people. He 404 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,159 wants to teach people tech. And that's also the thing that I was, 405 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,239 you know, I was like, why not I have my tech and teach 406 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:46,079 it too, right? Absolutely, So I know that you have a little 407 00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:50,519 bit of a time constraint. Before we wrap up, we usually do picks 408 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,679 up. Yeah, do you have some things you want to shout out about 409 00:35:54,679 --> 00:36:00,199 for picks? Uh? Can you go for still? Think of a thing 410 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:05,400 or two? Yeah? Absolutely, So I need to figure out when this 411 00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:10,440 is going to go out. But because of the whole coronavirus self quarantine kind 412 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,320 of situation that we're in, I've seen a whole bunch of conferences cancel and 413 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:21,119 a whole bunch of meetups canceled. So I am putting together online conferences and 414 00:36:21,199 --> 00:36:25,000 online meetups so that we can you know, virtual fisbump right and not get 415 00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:30,760 each other sick. Right, Yeah, so you can go find it dev 416 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:37,519 chat dot tv Slash meetups and dev chat dot tv Slash conferences and you'll be 417 00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:40,519 able to see those. Currently, I just have the JavaScript conference up. 418 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:47,360 I'm talking to some folks about actually having them sponsor or React Native conference because 419 00:36:47,519 --> 00:36:52,800 chain react got canceled. And then I'm I've got a couple of others like 420 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,119 rails cop got canceled, and so I'm working on putting one together for that, 421 00:36:57,559 --> 00:37:00,599 and then just pulling some others together. I think I'm all so kind 422 00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:04,519 of leaning towards some that I don't know if they're going to have conferences canceled. 423 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,440 But I'm also looking at DevOps dev scops, which is security focused, 424 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:14,920 agile development. I think I already mentioned soft skills have a soft Skill summit, 425 00:37:15,519 --> 00:37:20,119 and yeah, just put some stuff out there, because you know, 426 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,199 I've heard rumors that there's a medication out there that went through a trial that 427 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:29,079 looks like it'll help people. You know, it cures coronavirus. But I 428 00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:30,639 don't know how long it's going to take to get out there. I don't 429 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:35,280 know if after so many trials we're going to find that it's you know, 430 00:37:36,079 --> 00:37:39,280 only so effective for only so many kinds of people or what, and so 431 00:37:40,199 --> 00:37:44,159 I just want to make sure there's stuff out there. The online meetups, 432 00:37:44,199 --> 00:37:45,199 I'm just going to do one a month or two a month, sorry, 433 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,159 for each community. And what I'm doing is I'm doing one in the morning 434 00:37:49,199 --> 00:37:52,000 mountain time and one in the evening mountain time. And what that does is 435 00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:53,679 it opens things up so that if you're in Asia, you can get up 436 00:37:54,039 --> 00:37:58,199 a little bit early in the morning and join the afternoon US time one, 437 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,039 or if you're in Asia the one I'm doing in the morning, or not 438 00:38:01,159 --> 00:38:07,239 Asia, Europe, sorry, Europe, Israel, Africa, those kinds of 439 00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:10,000 time zones, it'll wind up being in the afternoon or evening for you. 440 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,880 And that way, yeah, we can kind of do that. So I'm 441 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,360 gonna be reaching out to folks and seeing if I can get people to come 442 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:20,199 and just do a twenty minute presentation, get a couple of those in there, 443 00:38:20,559 --> 00:38:25,360 and then just find a way to facilitate some interaction some chit chat there. 444 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:31,480 So what we'll probably do is allow people to raise their hands. We'll 445 00:38:31,639 --> 00:38:35,599 actually invite them into the call, so it'll pop up a little thing and 446 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,880 it'll say can we use your video and microphone? And then They'll be part 447 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,159 of the conversation for five or ten minutes, so they can ask questions, 448 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,679 they can jump in on whatever conversation we're having, and then we'll just rotate 449 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,760 people through and that way people can get some of that interaction. Because I 450 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,400 feel like the community needs to be able to come together and I'm not seeing 451 00:38:53,400 --> 00:39:00,960 any other better options. So yeah, well that's being an entrepreneur starting something 452 00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:02,920 to fill a need. I you know that that. That's kind of my 453 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,400 my pick right now too, is is look around for for needs. Yeah, 454 00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:15,199 and use whatever skills you have, whatever compassion and heart you have to 455 00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:22,039 fill those needs. As bad as any one of us has it, there's 456 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:27,559 there's somebody who has it worse. Yeah, and uh yeah, I think 457 00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:31,840 about the healthcare workers and so I have seen Okay, so here's one. 458 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,559 I don't know how immediately actionable this is going to be, but I would 459 00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:45,159 say looking for opportunities like these, there is an uh open source, uh 460 00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:52,880 create a ventilator, uh hacked day, hacket day. I think it is. 461 00:39:54,480 --> 00:40:01,480 So the uh yeah, the idea of kind of crowdsourcing needs is pretty 462 00:40:01,519 --> 00:40:08,639 interesting. So and even in a simpler way, I'll say that there was 463 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:15,760 something on the news last night where some people just donated a bunch of meals 464 00:40:15,199 --> 00:40:22,440 to hospital workers. Hospital workers are if this is a war, they're like 465 00:40:22,679 --> 00:40:28,719 on the front line, and so yeah, just kind of like conveying your 466 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:35,800 your thoughts and prayers, but any actions you can towards towards the people who 467 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,679 are on the front line. Hackaday, you found it awesome. Yep. 468 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:44,039 Yeah, just on that note too. I mean I've seen Facebook groups pop 469 00:40:44,159 --> 00:40:46,199 up, at least in my area where people were saying, hey, if 470 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:51,679 you have extra medication this that you know that people might need, right, 471 00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:57,320 post it here. If you need you know, any you know, diapers, 472 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,159 whatever, right and you can't find them in this store, or you 473 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:05,800 can't go to the store because you're you know, you're at risk, post 474 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,519 it here, right. And I mean people have been dropping stuff off at 475 00:41:08,559 --> 00:41:12,239 other people's houses that they don't even know, Like they just leave it on 476 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,800 the porch. You know, I got you, It'll be there in twenty 477 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,039 minutes. It shows up in twenty minutes. And that kind of stuff is 478 00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:22,760 just awesome. And so whether it's calling your elderly neighbor and making sure that 479 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,440 they're okay and that they don't need anything that you can go to the store 480 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,840 for them if you're not at risk, or just anything like that. I 481 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,119 mean, there's so many people doing so many great things to just take care 482 00:41:34,159 --> 00:41:38,760 of each other and not really caring about all of the idiotic stuff or seemingly 483 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,280 idiotic stuff that we all argue and scream at each other about on Twitter. 484 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,760 It doesn't matter anymore, at least in these circumstances. It's just they have 485 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,639 a need, I can help, and we just take care of each other. 486 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:57,000 Yeah. Yeah, to the coronavirus, we all just look like a 487 00:41:57,039 --> 00:42:02,599 bunch of pink lungs. Yep. So people have been doing online music and 488 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:08,400 education stuff, so that's also a pick of mine, like a shout out 489 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:13,320 to all the people who are just doing what they do online for the benefit 490 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:19,480 of everybody else, teachers and artists and stuff like that. So I could 491 00:42:19,519 --> 00:42:24,599 play us out, Yeah, do it all right. This one is called 492 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,519 water Bound, but it kind of is more like home Bound at this point. 493 00:42:30,599 --> 00:42:32,039 There's no words. It's just a little ditty, So feel free to 494 00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:35,960 talk over it and you know, fade us out in the edit. Okay, 495 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:58,760 it's all good. I'm just gonna listen. What Okay, I'm like 496 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,079 all nervous or whatever. There's there's lyrics. Let me try that again, 497 00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:07,280 but the lyrics go water. I can't get home, water, get home. 498 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:13,559 Okay, I'm nervous. It's all good, all right, well, 499 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,559 thank you, thank you for coming and talking to me. And yeah, 500 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,239 I really love the thoughts that you're putting out there as far as just yeah, 501 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,920 what can we do you too? All right, well, we'll go 502 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:29,000 ahead and wrap this up, folks, and until next time. Max out 503 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,920 bandwidth for this segment is provided by cash live, the world's fastest CDN. 504 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,039 Deliver your content fast with cash Live. Visit c A, C H, 505 00:43:37,199 --> 00:43:39,400 E, F l Y dot com to learn more