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I am Dampa Valley, your second
favorite co host of the Hardwin Knocks podcast.

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Have a great episode for you today. It is loaded. We are

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first going to talk with Bach Reports
Grant Hughes about the playoffs, just some

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stray thoughts on the Celtics heat series
to date. We go really in dept

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on Lakers Nuggets in advance of their
Game four, which hopefully you'll be listening

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to this beforehand, but if you're
listening to it afterwards. We did discuss

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some evergreen content such as Anthony Davis
and whether he's underrated, because it seems

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like the discussion sort of shifted in
that direction following his game winner in Game

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two. We also talk about Lebron's
comments about his receiving only sixteen first place

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votes in the final MVP tally.
We also talked about the news out of

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the Clippers locker room. I guess
you could call it that Paul George gave

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this, you know, sort of
ata boys speech after the Game seven loss

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and let's run it back, Let's
come back and win. And it was

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met with per the athletics, Sham
Sharania, a bunch of eye rolling,

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and so we get into what's going
on with the Clippers and their search for

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a playmaker. After that, I
bring in Salmon Ali. He is a

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fellow Blue Wire podcaster. He hosts
the Red Nation Hoops podcast and he also

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covers the Houston Rockets for ESPN ninety
seven point five in Houston. We talk

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you guessed Houston Rockets. Just get
into their future, their long term outlook,

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trades that they could make, the
season ending the way it did,

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their head coaching search. It's a
fun discussion. It's a long pod.

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We're running almost two hours, but
we cover a lot of content as always,

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though before we get started, I
have to shout out our sponsors this

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week. We are excited to have
Indeed and bet Online back. As always,

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without them, this podcast would not
be possible. I will not keep

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you waiting any longer. Let's get
into talking with first Bleacher Reports Grant Hues

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and then ESPN ninety seven point five's
Salmon Ali. Grant, welcome back for

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what I think we've got to be
in the teens with your appearance for a

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Hardwood ox. So thank you for
coming back on how are you doing?

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I'm doing good? And like I
said before, before we started taping or

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taping, does anybody tape anything?
Recording whatever? I'm stoked because in my

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day to day life, I just
don't get the opportunity to talk about the

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NBA on a level that we can
discuss it on like my wife for instance,

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or just general acquaintances are not interested
in, like what should Mason Plumbly

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have done instead of running into Lebron
on the last on ADS game winner?

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Like what are your thoughts? What
are his three options? Like that kind

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of thing. So we don't need
to talk about that specifically, But always

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glad to do it, Always glad
to be here. Let's try to get

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to the twenties someday. Yeah,
right, we're gonna get there. Rest

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of short because I'll be pestering you
enough. But you know, you know

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you mentioned the playoffs. Let's start
with some stray playoff thoughts before we get

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into some news topics. I'll let
you which series do you want to tackle?

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Nuggets, Nuggets, Lakers or Heat
Celtics? What have you been?

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What excuse me, what have your
impressions been for either of them so far?

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Well so, And this was kind
of surprising to me as it was

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developing. But I've been I don't
know about you, but I've been so

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much more interested in the east side
of the bracket than the west, which

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like that's I don't know when,
if ever, that has really been the

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case, at least in the last
what you know, ten ten years or

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so. But like the Toronto Boston
series was just for me, like as

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good as things got, I love
or I thought, and then and then

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and then Boston Miami, I just
have so I'll I had this thought the

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other day. So there's a San
Francisco Giants broadcaster who's done their games forever,

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Mike Cruco, and like when there
will be a play that, for

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example, the picture throws like just
a dart, like low and away,

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the batter gets the bat on,
it rips it up the line. The

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third base or well, I guess
first baseman whoever makes an incredible play on

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like diving makes an incredible throw and
gets him out by like half a step,

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and he'll say, that's the big
leagues right there, And it's just

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like his way of saying like,
that's about as good as this sport can

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look, just top to bottom.
And I've had that thought several times in

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Boston Miami, which feels weird because
it's a defensive series, but just watching

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the talent, watching the strategy,
watching the adjustments and the counter adjustments,

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the level of competitiveness, it's just
like it's the big leagues. And I

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think that has been the most enjoyable
part of all this for me, because

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the playoffs are always more intense and
just better played. But but this series,

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this Boston Miami series, to me, I've just found myself just kind

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of reveling in like the level hold
that the basketball is being played at.

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And I think it's only going to
continue because you know, the stakes just

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get higher with every game and these
two teams are just so good. Yeah,

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this is a series that I don't
I feel like I've said this a

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lot more during the postseason than I
normally do. I don't have like a

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great feel for it, and it
was I think part of it is because

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I didn't expect the heat to be
here. And the other thing was you

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watch the first two games and you're
like, oh, Miami's like going into

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zone. So I often kind of
broke Boston's offense, and then all of

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a sudden, like Boston is,
you know, not just their office didn't

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just perform well in Game three,
but like they really put pressure on the

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basket. They got to the free
throw line, and now it's like,

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okay, well now what is Miami
going to do? And so it looked

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like I wouldn't say that the Heat
were going to run away with it,

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but you have like one impression.
But then Boston comes back and then they're

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even like a lineup that they just
barely trotted out in the regular season.

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Gordon Hayward's back, and then they
run out the Smalls like that all small

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lineup where it was just you know, i'll call it five and kemba Walker

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basically. So I'm very interested to
see what people might be listening to this

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before Game four, after Game four
or whatever. But the rest of this

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series, this just feels like something
that's the extent of might feel for it.

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I feel like we're in for seven
games because I don't know that either

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of these two teams is gonna punch
far enough above the other teams wait for

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a long enough time to delay it
that long and it's like you said,

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it's been a defensive series. But
I'm also a part of me is wondering,

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like, you know, did Boston
almost kind of crack the code in

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Game three? And like they missed
a lot of they didn't take a lot

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of three pointers in Game three.
I actually think twenty six attempts was their

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fewest of the postseason. But they
also didn't shoot too well on them either.

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It was sub thirty five percent.
And You're like, you know,

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Jason Tatum's not going to go two
of seven from downtown forever and they're gonna

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be nice where just Marcus mart gets
scorching. And so I'm wondering if their

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offense actually has like another gear against
this Miami team too. Yeah. No,

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I've had this thought about Boston several
times, specifically that really I guess

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just going back to the Toronto series
because the first round was kind of whatever,

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but it felt I have thought several
times, like, man, Boston,

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if they could just knock down some
of these open threes, they'd be

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up fourteen instead of six or whatever
it is. And honestly, you know,

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it was the boxing one against Toronto
that yielded all those corner threes that

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you know, it seemed like Marcus
Smart would hit a bunch in the first

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quarter and then the team would go
cold. The quality of the shots they

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got have gotten has been consistently really
good against very good defenses, and so

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I do think there is like another
level to the Celtics offense, particularly sort

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of having correctly adjusted to the heat
zone, which to me this has been

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There's another like overarching theme of these
playoffs is that it's felt like this is

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a so the question is like who
can solve who? And clearly and that

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started for me with the Bucks.
The concern going in is that they are

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solvable. They have been solved in
the past. They got solved last year.

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Miami solved the Bucks not a complicated
problem. I think we all kind

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as we all sort of suspected solved. And then you see in this series,

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like you said, that zone looked
like I had the thought of like,

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wow, Boston is never going to
score against this. There's just no

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way they can't do it, Like
they just looked totally hopeless, and then

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like just obviously that's not the case. Because you saw that one play,

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I forget who was actually doing the
passing but it was just a cut from

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the wing, and I think smart
found maybe Jalen Brown cutting in It's like,

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oh yeah, you can just cut
against the zone that works, or

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oh yeah you can sort of just
pull Bam out of bio, away from

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the bucket and now you get layups
again. There's just all these The tactical

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stuff is really fascinating, but also
sort of the narrative I think is really

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fun because you've got the heat,
you know, the heat culture is so

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buzzy, and you love that like
this, they're not underdogs, but I

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wrote I underrated them, and I
think you probably did too, and they

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just look like they could win a
title maybe. And then Boston, I

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think is you know, looked like
they should have just rush the raptors.

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Oh Giannaobi hits that shot, and
now they're in a series. These young

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guys get validated and a pressure cooker
again. And I just love the young

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players, the angles, the narratives. I don't know, maybe I was

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just starved by the months off during
the pandemic and then the bubble stuff,

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but I just I just keep coming
back to how how good this has been

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from from really every perspective. Yeah, the thing that I keep coming back

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to me with Miami is like,
yes, I underrated them, but there's

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also like that trade in the middle
of the season really seemed to swing their

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year. And I don't know if
it necessarily happened in the moment, but

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like Jay crowd is just the perfect
example to me, is he ended up

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being essentially the primary defender against Janis
for those what like two and a half

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games that he actually played or whatever. Spend a ton of time on Chris

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Middleton even in this series, Like
you just have someone now that you're gonna

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put on Kemba Walker or Jalen Brown, Like that's all of a sudden,

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you just have that guy. And
so it's so like that helped them so

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much just for their defensive optionality.
I think because a lot of the lineups

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that Jimmy Butler, bam Ada Bio
were carrying, they were basically probably surrounded

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by suboptimal defenders at all three spots, I would say, and so it

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just didn't seem tenable. And to
have him and then Igodala forever many minutes

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that he can actually give you going
going night tonight just turns out to be

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absolutely huge for them, and it
actually just I'm more fascinated by and I

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don't need to get away from the
actual basketball with it. But like how

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this sort of just impacts what happens
now with them because everyone's like, oh,

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they're gonna sign Victor Oladipo in free
agency in twenty twenty one, where

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they're gonna go after Ghannas in twenty
twenty one, and it's like, can

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they even afford to sit on cap
space for that long when their team is

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this good now, and particularly when
you have free agents and Crowder and Dragic

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to entering the open market, maybe
you can get them for really just one

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year inflated deals. But like this, this isn't about the heat like wedging

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open a title window now all of
a sudden, it's about, oh,

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they're in this window and they could
like they are two wins away from the

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NBA Finals and we're recording this,
and that's just like something I've struggled to

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apple with just just in the present, but then also just looking at their

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future as well. Yeah, well
they were the team that was most sort

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of telegraphing their twenty twenty one names. I thought, you know, and

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Janis or whoever, the good class
but Yannis is obviously the top of that

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list for everybody, and maybe that'll, you know, what might solve a

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lot of their a lot of the
uncertainty. Is he just, yeah,

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just signs a supermax. And now
maybe maybe I have time to hear my

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quick theory on that. I would
love to hear your theory on that.

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If I'm be honest and I want
to stay in Milwaukee, I'm still not

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signing the supermax because two of the
teams that want him the most or in

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the East, in Toronto in Miami, So why not screw with them?

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And if they're gonna, you know, remain and lurched while he remains unsigned,

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the money's gonna be there for Yannis
either way. Like it's not the

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only thing that he actually gains by
the laying it is salary cap clarities.

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Maybe he knows whether he should sign
actually a shorter deal, but he could

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have and I don't want to name
an injury. I don't want him to

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get one, but he could have
the most devis dating injury possible and they're

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still going to max him out anyway, and so the money isn't in jeopardy

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there. So if I'm honest,
I'm totally doing that because you need to

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mess with the competition in the conference. In my mind, so I think

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I haven't thought of the if he's
if he knows he's committed to Milwaukee,

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he ought to do, you know, he ought to leave those other teams

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kind of hanging out there because it
could be a negative for them. But

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but I agree, and I think
that's that's smart. And if I were

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him and I felt that way,
I would do that too. But the

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main thing, like the Kevin Durant
example is the most obvious one, right,

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Like I think you know torn Achilles, that's that's the injury that you

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don't have to name because that's one
that is just sort of on the very

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short list of oh, this is
a career ender and signs a max deal,

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uh right away, so you're signing
tray whatever, Like it didn't hurt

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him. He's older than your Honest, he has not won back to back

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m vps. I don't not comparing
the two like who's better or this is

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not a goat conversation, but like, yeah, so honest has just the

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money is going to be their full
stop. So I think if I'm him,

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I don't want to sign that Supermax
at all. The only reason you

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sign the Supermax, I think is
to not have to face a full year

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of the same questions again. And
like, I don't know what that's worth,

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but that's worth That's got to be
worth something because it's a huge distraction.

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It's a it's just a whole thing, and it's just got to be

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mind theming to have to deal with
that. But other than that, like

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I just don't know why you why
if you're him, you you lock into

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something because like what if I don't
know, what if Chris Middleton gets hurt

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this year or like what they're in
twenty one? What if something else happens,

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then you're you're stuck on a team
that really has no way to change.

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That's that's a whole whole other set
of factors to consider. Yeah,

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I mean you want to keep pressure
on the organization too, to not be

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complacent just because he still has leverage
even if he's under contract for four or

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five years. But the threat of
three agency also means a bunch of I

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00:14:54,600 --> 00:15:00,360
did not mean to drag it into
a free agency discussion that even those sports

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00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,440
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Offer is valid through September thirtieth, which

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is my birthday. So you know, it's it is there? Do you

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00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,279
have anything else just the heat Celtics
is there's been just anything you know that

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you're gonna watch moving forward, specifically
from from a player. So maybe that

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00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,559
can shift the tenor of the series. What is it going to take for

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00:16:14,919 --> 00:16:17,919
you know, because Boston is still
kind of on the ropes? Here are

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00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,080
are you looking at? You know? How are do they need another you

253
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:22,639
know, three point debt nation from
Marcus Smart and one of these games?

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00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:26,360
Just what are you still watching for
in Celtics feed a couple of things.

255
00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:30,200
I have a question for you too. But the first thing is I had

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the thought during I guess it was
game three maybe game two where I think

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last time we talked, I was
kind of I was like less, I

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was very high on Jayson Tatum,
but I don't think I was as high

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00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:45,000
as you were. And I and
I'm ready to admit that you're right.

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But I've had the thoughts several times
during this series of like I want to

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00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:52,919
buy all of the Jayson Tatum stock, as in, there is a there

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00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:57,200
is a realistic scenario in three years
where he's the best player in the sport.

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00:16:57,399 --> 00:17:00,759
Like I just I don't feel that
way all the time, but I

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00:17:00,799 --> 00:17:03,720
think he had. There was a
play on the right block where he basically

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00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:08,200
did a dream shake where he sort
of had not not the like David Robinson,

266
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,400
you know, up and under,
up and under three times thing,

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00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,240
but where he doesn't really establish a
pivot foot like a la Juan used to

268
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,960
do, and did this just filthy
fake one wave baseline spin where even like

269
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:22,200
right up to the moment he made
the move, you didn't know what pivot

270
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,359
foot he was using, which is
a vintage a La Juan thing, And

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00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,599
I'm just like, okay, that's
cash me out right, like I want

272
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,000
every piece of Tatum stock. So
I think one way the Celtics turn.

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00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:34,920
You know, I don't know if
turn it arounds the right way, but

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00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,799
you know, take Game four and
you know, sort of grab ahold of

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the series again is if you just
get a Tatum game where the attention is

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00:17:44,759 --> 00:17:48,359
still too strongly on kemball walker Jalen
Brown's playing well enough to command a lot

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00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,039
of attention, and Tatum gets you
at forty. I don't know if the

278
00:17:52,039 --> 00:17:56,119
Heat are capable of letting someone do
that, but I think that's that's a

279
00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,279
that's your like you know, talk
radio, we need a big Tatum game

280
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,240
to do this, like very surface
level take, but I do feel like

281
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,720
he can do that, and I
feel like that's possible. The thing I

282
00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:11,240
want to ask you was going back
to really starting in the Toronto series,

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00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:15,759
it seemed like Kemba Walker is a
huge priority for every opposing defense, Like

284
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you know, Toronto played the box
and one seemingly to just avoid getting its

285
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,119
biggs involved in pick and roll and
pick and pop with Walker, and then

286
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,640
the Heat have really put a lot
of emphasis on keeping Walker out of pick

287
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,519
and roll and just kind of focusing
on him, which seems weird to me

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00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,839
because you know, Tatum is obviously
the best offensive player on the team,

289
00:18:36,079 --> 00:18:40,440
but there must just be something about
what Walker can do that has these opposing

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00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,759
coaches, good coaches, extra concerned. Have you noticed that? What's your

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00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:48,200
theory on that, Like, is
it surprising to you that Walker has been

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00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,200
such a point of emphasis and he
hasn't played well as a result? I

293
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:52,759
think, But but it seems like
a weird thing to me. I wondering

294
00:18:52,759 --> 00:18:56,240
if you noticed that. Yeah,
so I guess I didn't give as much

295
00:18:56,279 --> 00:18:59,599
thought as you, but it is, you know, looking back when Toronto

296
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,839
ran up and one against Walker at
some point too, I believe, and

297
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,160
so yeah, I know they did, and so giving that focus to Kemba,

298
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,480
I guess it is bizarre with Tatum, but I guess it isn't Walker

299
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,440
if you end up switching a pick
and roll more of a mismatch than Jayson

300
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,119
Tatum is technically like he's just quicker. I don't know if you're gonna you're

301
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:18,880
not gonna trust him as the same
type of finisher around the rim, but

302
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,279
he is going to be the better
passer anyway. And so it's more about

303
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:29,400
kind of taking those extra elements out
or is it just you're confident more confident

304
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,960
that hey, we can remove him
from the equation. He's just he's smaller,

305
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,680
and so if we're gonna be able
to neutralize him, like Tatum can

306
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,400
do whatever. And we've seen variants
in his game where maybe he's not going

307
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,920
to go all the way to the
basket, or maybe he's not always going

308
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,720
to make the less obvious pass,
which he's done he's done a great job

309
00:19:45,759 --> 00:19:48,720
of for most of the playoffs,
and he's averaging five point seven assist per

310
00:19:48,759 --> 00:19:52,240
game in this series. That's I
don't even that might just be total crap

311
00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:56,240
thinking, I honestly have no idea, but that's that's like one or two

312
00:19:56,319 --> 00:19:59,519
theories I could float out would be
those. Yeah, it's it's felt like

313
00:19:59,599 --> 00:20:03,440
it's like, at least the Toronto
bit, it felt like a challenge to

314
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,480
Tatum to be to be a playmaker, which I think he's less comfortable doing

315
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,799
than just getting buckets. And that
would be the difference where if you're saying

316
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:12,720
he's going to be the best player
in the world in the next three years,

317
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:15,559
you know, when you look at
the other players in contention for that,

318
00:20:15,599 --> 00:20:19,000
they'll obviously be maybe Janice will probably
still be in that discussion at that

319
00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:22,920
time. But if you're looking specifically
at let's say Luca don Chich, it's

320
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,119
because he's the primary engine of the
offense as a passer, and because Tatum's

321
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,640
never going to be at that level
even if he is, you know,

322
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,079
a peak passer to like the best
of whatever you think he can be,

323
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,799
Like if he's averaging, you know, what does he need to average four

324
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,119
or five si per game to be
like peak where it's you know, his

325
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,440
his offense if it's still efficient and
what he does on defense, like that's

326
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,680
going to make up the difference,
because I think really why James Harden is

327
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,000
just so good relative to a lot
of other players is, yes, there's

328
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,480
the scoring, but he separates himself
so much as a passer that you can

329
00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:56,200
there are players that you could just
you could throw their defensive cases just entirely

330
00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,480
out the window because they're never even
going to come close to sniffing value that

331
00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:03,519
Hardened adds alone as just a playmaker. Yeah, I think that's right.

332
00:21:03,559 --> 00:21:07,720
You would never challenge a guy like
like Harden or Luca. Obviously it's totally

333
00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:11,920
different because you just can't get the
ball out of Luca Lucas hands really anyway.

334
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,559
But you would never challenge those guys
to sort of beat you in a

335
00:21:15,559 --> 00:21:18,359
four on four or a four on
three by you know, hard trapping kembo

336
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,119
or doing a bunch of weird you
know that that's like, And I think

337
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,960
it probably does speak to Tatum has
you know, you know, things to

338
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,920
iron out. But I thought he
handled that stuff pretty well. But I'm

339
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,960
just I'm kind of just waiting for
him to really have one of those games

340
00:21:34,079 --> 00:21:37,039
in this series, and again,
the heat may just not let that happen.

341
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,839
But you know, talk about a
narrative that could really get gone is

342
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:47,559
like this is the Tatum Arrival tour, just following up his regular season arrival

343
00:21:47,559 --> 00:21:49,079
of Now, oh yeah he can, he can. He can carry a

344
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,920
very good team to the finals,
like, you know, against a very

345
00:21:55,039 --> 00:21:56,880
very good defense. I think I
think I'd like to see that. I

346
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,440
don't just as a fan, but
I don't know how realistic that is against

347
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,799
this good of a defense. This
is like a good series someone's gonna overturn,

348
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,119
like a preconceived notion where it's you
know, Tatum was on the rise,

349
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,359
but people were wondering and even you
who you weren't even trying hot Tay

350
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:12,839
is he a top ten player yet? Like is he a best player on

351
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,119
a contender material? And then there's
also there's been that same stuff with Jimmy

352
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,079
Butler, I think predominantly because he's
been on so many different teams, which

353
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,359
was definitely an unfair stance if you
just look at the track record of all

354
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,519
the Crumby front offices that he left, like yeah, you know what,

355
00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:29,720
he might grate on some people,
but it's not like he was in these

356
00:22:29,759 --> 00:22:33,440
great situations either. But one of
those two was going to the finals and

357
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,240
they're going to be the best player
on their team when they yet, Yeah,

358
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,240
no, it's amazing. I think
too that well, the preconceived notion

359
00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:45,920
that's going to get flipped is I
came into this series thinking, you know,

360
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,680
the heat, they were ready,
they were better prepared for a Bucks

361
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,640
team that you just you know,
I was just not that it didn't it

362
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,680
didn't elevate the heat to me to
some higher level that they that they just

363
00:22:57,759 --> 00:23:03,599
kind of cracked Milwaukee just because I
was so foreseeable and I thought that Boston,

364
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,599
you know, they can do so
many different things you can't. You

365
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,119
know, they don't play one way, they have all these you know that

366
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,640
Brad Stevens is a mad genius like
all that stuff. I just I thought

367
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,720
Boston was gonna not have a hard
time in this series, to be honest,

368
00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:19,200
and really, yeah I really did. I just well part of that

369
00:23:19,279 --> 00:23:23,039
was because I regarded the Raptors so
highly. I really, I just I

370
00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:26,759
have so much We didn't talk about
this, I don't think, but I

371
00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:29,440
have so much respect for the Raptors, even though they should have been down

372
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,200
three zero, and maybe because they
should have been down three oh and still

373
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,559
pushed that thing to the brink with
just that Game six was I mean,

374
00:23:37,599 --> 00:23:41,720
like a chef's kiss for the entire
game. And I just I love the

375
00:23:41,799 --> 00:23:47,400
Raptors so much that I thought Boston
beating that team really meant a lot,

376
00:23:47,839 --> 00:23:52,640
and I thought that that Miami beating
Milwaukee meant quite a bit less. And

377
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,799
I think maybe I just sort of
was too high on one and too low

378
00:23:55,839 --> 00:23:57,640
on the other. And it turns
out these teams are both actually pretty evenly

379
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:02,559
matched. That's probably a fair that's
probably a fair stance to land on it.

380
00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:06,200
I mean, look, Milwaukee was
Jannie was injured and the coach wasn't

381
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,799
playing his players enough. The coach
I called him the coaches that have Mike,

382
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,000
like, I don't know who he
is because he's still the coach in

383
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,680
your surprise. So I think a
lot of people are playing that. But

384
00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:19,559
I saw a lot of Celtics in
five predictions. I don't know. I

385
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,519
didn't have to put a game number
on it, but I really everyone I

386
00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:25,519
talked to I was like, they're
gonna win the series. I thought Miami

387
00:24:25,559 --> 00:24:29,599
would get win game one because Boston
played had all of it's starting five played

388
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,400
like ninety total minutes over the previous
two games. But I thought that even

389
00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:36,559
with Miami winning Game one, that
Boston win the series. Still alive,

390
00:24:36,599 --> 00:24:38,839
but the series has not progressed quite
how I thought it would. You want

391
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,720
to talk West, I took Celtics
in seven in this one, and then

392
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,480
I took out of I don't know
what it was, stubbornness, but I

393
00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:48,680
started to get not a lot of
credit. But I picked the Nuggets to

394
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,400
win the title in the beginning of
the season. I flip flop waffled on

395
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,599
that so much. I even picked
the Clippers to win the series against the

396
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,559
Nuggets. I don't think I deserve
credit for naming them as a title pick,

397
00:25:00,599 --> 00:25:03,480
but I went with Nuggets and seven
in this series because one I was

398
00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:07,559
impressed. I thought that their death
would end up being a lot more reliable

399
00:25:07,559 --> 00:25:11,400
than LA's. Probably a flawed thinking
of that is that Lebron and ad actually

400
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,279
haven't really had a play that much
during these playoffs, so that, you

401
00:25:14,319 --> 00:25:18,599
know, worrying about depth is probably
stupid. Still, I feel like there

402
00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:21,720
are I have a question ask you
about Anthony Davis eventually, but I think

403
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,400
in the context of the series,
I'm assuming you picked the Lakers or you're

404
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:27,680
probably in the camp of the Lakers
are definitely going to win this series.

405
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,000
Do you see anything though, that's
like encouraging for Denver and not just oh,

406
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:36,400
they almost won Game two that they
can hang on going forward. And

407
00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:38,759
what specifically is it like, is
it you know they're they're going to shoot

408
00:25:38,799 --> 00:25:42,519
better than twenty one percent on wide
open threes during the rest of the series.

409
00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:45,680
Is it's something like that or do
you kind of just think that this

410
00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:49,640
is Fay to complete lebron senses,
it's his best chance to win a title,

411
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,559
probably with the Lakers, given that
Golden State will be back next year

412
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:56,400
and all the up and coming teams, YadA, YadA, YadA. Well,

413
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:02,039
I think the answer, I mean, there's certainly undeniable, much bigger

414
00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:07,640
picture reasons to be really encouraged by
Denver. You know, that's obvious that

415
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,240
the resiliency they've shown, the experience
that they're getting from playing in all these

416
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:17,200
elimination games. Murray kind of I
think Murray has quietly just become the guy

417
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,559
that we kind of thought he was
gonna be, you know, in the

418
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:22,880
last couple of years. Anytime he
had a big game, I felt like

419
00:26:22,079 --> 00:26:25,759
there was always this call to sort
of be like, Okay, Murray's the

420
00:26:25,799 --> 00:26:29,240
next guy, and I definitely have
said that. I'm sure I wrote something

421
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,000
about that when he had a big
playoff game in the last postseason. But

422
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:36,440
I think that's, you know,
in yok it's just being you know,

423
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,880
not the guy that you can play
off the floor with pick and rolls anymore,

424
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,160
and their chemistry together all that stuff, Porter Jr. Looking like a

425
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,039
really good third option, that type
of thing, but sort of more micro

426
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:53,319
than Macro. I do really think
that Denver should be encouraged by the fact

427
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:59,920
that you can just throw the ball
to Yokich in the post against and all

428
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,599
world defender, and if he doesn't
score over him like he did for what

429
00:27:03,079 --> 00:27:07,880
we thought was going to be the
game winner, he's going to find the

430
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,799
guy that needs to get a shot. And so when your offense can kind

431
00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:15,119
of be simplified to that extent,
it's very hard for even a good defense,

432
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:21,440
and the Lakers are one of those
to kind of shut down your offense

433
00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:26,160
for an extended stretch just because Yokich
is always going to do the right thing.

434
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,680
And maybe that's not the right word. Maybe it's Yokich is always going

435
00:27:29,759 --> 00:27:33,519
to prevent you from taking away all
of his options because he can score,

436
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,519
and he's gonna find the passing lane
that nobody else can see. And because

437
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,559
the Nuggets all know he's going to
do that, they never sat running around

438
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:47,440
and finding those cutting areas and good
spots to sort of set up shop for

439
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,519
a kickout. So I think the
Lakers strength is still their defense. But

440
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,559
when the Nuggets know they have someone
that can just kind of manufacture consistently good

441
00:27:56,599 --> 00:28:00,359
looks, I think you can always
be encouraged by that. But yeah,

442
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,880
I do think to get to your
other point, you know, I picked

443
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,720
the Lakers. I just thought that, you know, Denver's more than a

444
00:28:07,839 --> 00:28:11,559
nice story, but you don't you're
still, you know, to come back

445
00:28:11,599 --> 00:28:15,440
from a three one deficit. You're
down three one twice, and you know

446
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,160
there's a realistic possibility that they don't
even get out of that Utah series if

447
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,960
that crazy Conley shot goes down.
So I think it's not it's still cliche

448
00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:27,079
to be like, oh, the
magic ran out or whatever, but the

449
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,720
Lakers are a different animal. The
Nuggets just can't. They're not quite there,

450
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,480
is all I'm saying. And they've
had an incredible run and they may

451
00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:37,039
get there, but it just felt
like, you know, this was about

452
00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:40,599
as far as we could realistically expect
them to get the finals. To me,

453
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,599
to feel like a realistic possibility.
Yeah, And there's like there's still

454
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,160
something it feels like missing from Denver's
wing rotation, even when you're accounting for

455
00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:52,440
like Michael Porter Junior's learning curve,
which on some nights it doesn't even feel

456
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,640
like it exists, Like you just
make good rotations on defense or where he'll

457
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,720
be shooting the hell out of the
ball, but like when you're playing PJ

458
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,000
doj and crunch Time, PJ Dozer
and crunch Time. Excuse me, I

459
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:10,279
can't talk tonight, it's like there's
something like he really did make some good

460
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:12,319
defensive plays, but he was one
of five at the foul line, Like

461
00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:17,119
you're if you're in that position,
like that's not an optimal position to be

462
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,839
in, Like it's you know what, you know what they need, sorry

463
00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:22,039
to jump in, but like they
need they need good Gary Harris all the

464
00:29:22,079 --> 00:29:26,400
time. That's that's who that guy
needs to be and they get him sometimes.

465
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,480
And that's when the Nuggets I think
looked really kind of special. But

466
00:29:30,519 --> 00:29:33,680
they don't. Yeah it like to
your point, and Dozer was in over

467
00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:37,799
Harris, and Harris has kind of
been a non entity so far. That's

468
00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:40,440
what they need, is that other
wing that can kind of do sort of

469
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,400
everything and defend, and they just
don't have it. The thing I wanted

470
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:45,599
to ask you, though, is
like, so Anthony Davis and look,

471
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,359
maybe that's something else. By the
way that the Nuggets can kind of hang

472
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,880
their their hat on is that Anthony
Davis is three or seven from deep in

473
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,279
this series. He's hit like some, especially in Game two, hit a

474
00:29:56,279 --> 00:30:00,640
bunch of difficult jumpers like you probably
on most nights would count on those not

475
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,400
going down. But it does seem
that like this is now being turned into

476
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,319
like Anthony Davis is like find of
finally writing his legacy and like, oh

477
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,200
he's he's so good, Like he's
even been underrated to this point. I

478
00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:15,279
kept seeing tweets that Anthony Davis is
better than Janis and Nicole Yokich being retweeted

479
00:30:15,279 --> 00:30:19,559
into my feed, and I'm just
like, I'm not even trying to knock

480
00:30:19,599 --> 00:30:22,960
against this isn't knocking stage, But
was he underrated to begin with? Like

481
00:30:23,079 --> 00:30:27,359
wasn't this someone who was just consistently
in the top five to seven at worst

482
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:32,359
top ten discussion. Oh yeah,
no, I've had this. I have

483
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,000
the exact same thought. It's I
mean, you can get to that point

484
00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:40,000
very often in like the whole concept
of an underrated players, like well,

485
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:44,200
if we're asking if he's underrated,
this is he just by definition no longer

486
00:30:44,319 --> 00:30:48,519
underrated because we're all sort of agreeing
that that was the wrong chance. But

487
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,559
like, but especially for him is
it's it's almost you can almost tie it

488
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,480
to Lebron being pissed about the MVP
a little bit in that, like,

489
00:30:56,519 --> 00:31:00,599
yeah, man, I like nobody's
gonna say that you're not the best player

490
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,160
in the world, like to your
favor. He just I don't know,

491
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:08,039
it's it's sort of a it's an
argument that no one's really making. But

492
00:31:08,079 --> 00:31:12,160
I will say that probably like ten
or fifteen minutes before he hit the game

493
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,480
winner in real time, I did
have the thought of, man, Anthony

494
00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:19,359
Davis is really good, like great, but I actually don't think he can

495
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,359
be your best player, or at
least he can be your guy if if

496
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,119
if Lebron's not there, if it's
put someone else that's close to Lebron and

497
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:33,119
Davis then is clearly the leader of
the team, the best player. Like,

498
00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:37,079
maybe I'm setting myself up for failure
because he'll just prove me wrong in

499
00:31:37,119 --> 00:31:40,400
a year or two when he's the
best player on the Lakers team that wins

500
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:45,079
it all. But like he's just
look, he's really great. Uh,

501
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,839
he is a top five to seven
guy. But I don't think that's the

502
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,799
same thing as saying he can be
he can do what Lebron does or you

503
00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:57,160
know what Steph Curry did, or
you know the very like very very rarefied

504
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,559
air of the guy that he is
the best player and most important player on

505
00:32:00,599 --> 00:32:05,200
a title team that I don't want
to knock him either, because then he

506
00:32:05,319 --> 00:32:09,039
hit the game winner surely after I
had that thought. But I have to

507
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:14,559
cop to actually thinking that. It's
a thought that's crossed my mind too really

508
00:32:14,599 --> 00:32:16,359
frequently. And I think, look, here, you might call him a

509
00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:21,960
top five player, but if you'll
ask someone, who are you starting a

510
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,000
team you want to win this season? Like throw a future out of the

511
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:25,799
equation, who do you want to
build your team around? I don't know

512
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,960
that he's going to be one of
the first or seven guys that you name

513
00:32:29,079 --> 00:32:32,440
because playmaking is so important. That's
not something he's gonna do. And then

514
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,079
look, he has like he can
put the ball on the floor, he

515
00:32:36,119 --> 00:32:38,640
can take those those fadeaways, he
can take those step backs, but he's

516
00:32:38,839 --> 00:32:43,000
historically not hit those at a high
clip. He's even not been like a

517
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,759
good set three point shooter. And
so I think that's an easy way to

518
00:32:45,759 --> 00:32:49,440
talk yourself out of him. What
I do keep coming back to is I

519
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,640
almost feel like we then undervalue and
this isn't you. I think. I

520
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,279
think it's even me when I have
the initial thought, but it's people who

521
00:32:54,319 --> 00:32:59,039
think that he's overrated. I feel
like they're undervaluing what he actually does because

522
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:02,880
it's so tough to maybe sometimes quantify
or maybe you take it for granted.

523
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,079
And so the two things I would
point to is one, there's his defense.

524
00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:08,200
And so a lot of people pointed
out that the Lakers were better,

525
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,759
We're about dead even defensively with him
off the court this season, and like,

526
00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:14,960
there are so many things that go
into that, like the lineups that

527
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,519
you're facing, but also a lot
of his non Lebron minutes are coming with

528
00:33:17,599 --> 00:33:22,440
Rondo and Kuzma, who's been okay
defensively for like pretty quietly like two seasons

529
00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:27,440
now, but like those lineups are
tough to carry, and even if kcp's

530
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,960
and they're like, you're still dealing
with a lot of then at that point

531
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,920
like overmatched, just defensive assignments,
and so you're trying to cover up for

532
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,680
a whole bunch or you have to
cover up for a whole bunch. And

533
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,960
then the other thing for me is
like his offense. Yes, there are

534
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:45,160
those times where he devates, but
he can score thirty forty points just completely

535
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,119
within the flow of the offense.
And I don't think that you should take

536
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,559
it can be taken for granted,
because I don't know that you realize it.

537
00:33:51,559 --> 00:33:54,000
It's like there's there are these players
where you're watching him and you don't

538
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,079
even realize that they just hung twenty
five. And I sometimes feel like if

539
00:33:58,119 --> 00:34:00,640
he's not always putting the ball on
the floor, he's one of those players.

540
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,640
And so to get out in transition, to just be willing to run

541
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,519
the floor, to be able to
score off all those passes, like there's

542
00:34:07,559 --> 00:34:10,920
just such a convenience in that.
But it's this high end convenience that very

543
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,320
few players have. And then the
last thing I'll point out too, is

544
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,320
just he creates all sorts of mismatches
at his position, and just the defensive

545
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,760
questions you have to ask yourself whether
you're running small, whether you're running big,

546
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,119
And it's like the case with the
Nuggets, is you know they're not

547
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,039
Paul millsapp has spent the most time
guarding him in this series. But and

548
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:34,519
these numbers aren't perfect, but in
the time that NICOLEA. Yoki just spent

549
00:34:34,559 --> 00:34:37,159
guarding him, and he's been,
by possession and minutes, the second most

550
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:42,880
frequent defender on Anthony Davis, the
Lakers as a team are averaging one point

551
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,519
seven eight points per possession on the
possessions that Yoka's guards Anthony Davis. And

552
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:51,960
he just creates all sorts of those
matchup issues that yes, Yokis might be

553
00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:55,280
an extreme, but like name another
big you're mostly not gonna want them on

554
00:34:55,320 --> 00:35:00,599
Anthony Davis. Yeah, it's it
made me think of something, and I

555
00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:07,079
think it's it's an oversimplification, but
it sort of explains both how there's this

556
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:14,719
idea that he's underrated and are sort
of half confident feeling that he isn't quite

557
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,440
like the guy you'd pick to start
a franchise with and I think it's just

558
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,960
because he's not a guy that you
know, gets his own that that often

559
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:28,800
in the in the sort of traditional
obvious way of of a Kauai or even

560
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,400
like a Don Chich or you know, Jannis or all these it's it's it's

561
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:37,840
just a I think we, I
don't know, overvalue, but we definitely

562
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:44,480
extremely highly value the guy that is
going to create a shot for himself or

563
00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:47,159
someone else. And Davis, like
you said, he can get you thirty

564
00:35:47,159 --> 00:35:51,320
garbage points and they still count the
same. But I don't feel like it

565
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,239
seems the same when you're trying to
evaluate a player and say, you know,

566
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,159
is he absolutely the best of the
best? I think we just we

567
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,639
put such an emphasis on that on
as feel set that he doesn't. Really

568
00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:07,199
that's not his absolute strongest attribute,
all right, it's not necessarily necessarily supposed

569
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:08,599
to be. But I think what
I don't know if we overvalue it or

570
00:36:08,639 --> 00:36:12,079
not. It's a good point by
you, But the most important shot in

571
00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:15,519
basketball I think right now is like
the off the dribble three. Like you

572
00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:17,119
can get more granular with it,
like is it the step back? Is

573
00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:20,840
it the escape dribble? Three.
Is it just the regular pull up three,

574
00:36:21,079 --> 00:36:22,760
But that feels like it's become the
most important shot, and that's not

575
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:28,719
Anthony Davis's game. And even look
like in the playoffs he's been absolutely dominating.

576
00:36:29,639 --> 00:36:31,800
More than fifty eight percent of his
buckets have come off assist. And

577
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,440
in the regular season, I think
it was right it was even high or

578
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,519
sixty three point two percent of his
baskets has come off assist and that's not

579
00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:40,920
like, actually not that high when
you just look relative to his position.

580
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,320
Most of those guys, if they're
gonna be regular like traditional fours, or

581
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,320
if you're just gonna play the five, you're normally just not creating your own

582
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:52,360
shot. It's Yokich and maybe Karl
Anthony Towns at this point and Joel Embi,

583
00:36:52,599 --> 00:36:54,000
like you could start, you could
probably count the players on one hand

584
00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:59,320
or at least definitely less than both
of your hands. So it's like a

585
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,519
it's like a it's not a criticism
against him, but it's also like kind

586
00:37:01,559 --> 00:37:06,480
of a fact of life. Like
that does feel like the from scratch creators

587
00:37:06,559 --> 00:37:09,280
are the most important building box right
now. And then here's something to think

588
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,559
about and maybe we could we could
wrap the Davis thing on this, but

589
00:37:13,639 --> 00:37:16,599
you just keep making me think of
things I think, apologize, No,

590
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:22,280
no, this is why we have
to have these conversations. Otherwise my half

591
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,639
formed uh thoughts don't get aired.
Think think of it this way. It

592
00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:30,159
occurs to me that Davis might be
if you're an opposing coach in a playoff

593
00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:35,440
series and your whole your whole deal
is, well, how do we take

594
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,440
away what player X does best and
just use the Walker example, It's like,

595
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,440
well, we can't let him get
downhill in the pick and roll.

596
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:45,280
We're go and trap him. Right, There's ways to scheme. So I

597
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,960
think Davis might be one of the
most difficult guys to prevent from doing what

598
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,199
he wants to do and to or
put it another way, to scheme against

599
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,440
because like we've we've said it already, he's just gonna get a bunch of

600
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,400
points in the flow. So like, okay, let's let's set our white

601
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,480
board up in the locker room for
Anthony Davis and say like, here's the

602
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,639
three things we gotta we gotta do. We gotta be more athletic than him

603
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:13,360
so he can't get on the offensive
boards. Not possible. We gotta be

604
00:38:14,039 --> 00:38:16,800
I don't know, more skilled to
so we can stay in front of him

605
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:21,280
as he's kind of running around screens
and like a six ten guys trying to

606
00:38:21,559 --> 00:38:23,679
can't do that, so you just
go down the list and he's not schemable,

607
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:29,559
So I mean can consider the value
in that as like an opposing coach,

608
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:30,199
you just sort of throw up your
hands and say like, well,

609
00:38:30,199 --> 00:38:35,000
I hope we box him out or
I hope we can drag him away from

610
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,679
the basket. And he's not quick
enough to recover to help on drives,

611
00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:42,079
which he is and he always like
there's just so that aspect of it is,

612
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:45,239
maybe we're thinking about this wrong,
because what you want in a playoff

613
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,280
series is a guy that can't be
prevented from doing the stuff he's good at

614
00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:52,239
and and so far nobody has topped
Davis from doing the stuff he's good at.

615
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,159
Yeah, that's a that's a great
point too. I do find it

616
00:38:54,199 --> 00:38:58,599
weird though that I just didn't think
that it has Anthony Davis been underrated was

617
00:38:58,639 --> 00:39:01,239
going to become a topic during by
offs, Like I didn't see that coming.

618
00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:06,039
We gotta talk about something. I
guess the weight is finally over.

619
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629
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:49,559
experts. A few more things I
want to ask you. We'll stick with

630
00:39:49,559 --> 00:39:52,880
the Lakers for this one. So
I'm assuming you saw Lebron's comments on his

631
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:57,039
receiving only sixteen I say only,
but I mean sixteen first place MVP votes

632
00:39:57,079 --> 00:40:00,599
really isn't nothing. So you saw
those comments? Right? Yeah? Sure?

633
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:02,719
What do you make of the whole
thing? Because where I'm gonna land

634
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,880
on it? And I'd rather you
get more nuanced than I will. And

635
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,320
I'll corsrespond to you. He's like, right, because the thing that stood

636
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,800
out to me is he said,
I don't know how much we are really

637
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,880
watching the game of basketball or we're
just in narration mode. And so I

638
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:22,280
tend to agree with him that narrative
does play a huge part. But he's

639
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:27,320
also someone in this case who benefits
from it because there were the few people

640
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,719
it wasn't a lot, who were
talking about, you know, leading the

641
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,360
Lakers through this pandemic, and then
Kobe's death like that needed to booby him

642
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,519
up. And one he's not the
only person leading his team through a pandemic,

643
00:40:36,559 --> 00:40:38,920
and everyone's living through the pandemic.
To the Kobe stuff, it makes

644
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,079
me cringe whenever it's brought up,
like where every thing the Lakers do is

645
00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:45,440
like, oh was this for Kobe? That stuff makes me uncomfortable to begin

646
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,000
with. And then also even though
oh, look at what he's doing in

647
00:40:49,039 --> 00:40:52,199
his age thirty five campaign, like
well, why does that get evaluated differently

648
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:57,199
in the MVP this course just because
he's older, So he does benefit from

649
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,760
some of it. But I do
think what he really touched on is that

650
00:41:00,519 --> 00:41:02,679
I would be in favor of them
probably shrinking the voting process. I think

651
00:41:02,679 --> 00:41:06,960
media are absolutely if you're gonna do
it, the media are probably the best

652
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,679
people to do it, just because
we've seen how seriously the players fake the

653
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,119
All Star voting and hint, hint, it's not very serious at all.

654
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,320
And then the other thing is that
there probably needs to be whether it's a

655
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,920
separation of awards where you have a
best player and then a Most Valuable Player,

656
00:41:21,159 --> 00:41:23,960
or just a specific set of criteria
because everyone's judging it differently, where

657
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,519
with Lebron it's you know, maybe
the narrative matters, or they're looking at

658
00:41:28,559 --> 00:41:30,599
Will look how bad the Lakers were
on the court without him, and it's

659
00:41:30,599 --> 00:41:35,880
like, okay, well, Jana
statistically elevated his team by just as much,

660
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,159
if not more. The promise is
that they were just still good without

661
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,760
him. Do we penalize him because
he brought a good team to great and

662
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,440
Lebron brought what would be a so
so to crappy team to like really good

663
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:51,800
bordering on great. And there it's
such a confusing topic to discuss, but

664
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,679
I do think, you know,
he's kind of the first player that I

665
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:58,119
feel like is really hit on it
where it's like he's like pointing out like

666
00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:00,440
Marc Gasol when he Defensive Player of
the Year in two has team, but

667
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,719
he was in all defensive second team, So that stuff. You know,

668
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,079
the voting process, I actually do
think that there's like an issue with it,

669
00:42:07,119 --> 00:42:10,360
and the ambiguity I think does stand
out more than anything else. And

670
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,800
the last thing I would say is
I still think the right player won the

671
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,800
regular season award because it is a
regular season award. Yeah, I think.

672
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:22,960
So let's before I kind of give
you my two cents, do you

673
00:42:23,039 --> 00:42:30,360
think that if let's say that we
held the voting today and and and the

674
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:36,519
Lakers are up to Oho, Jannis
is at home. We all saw his

675
00:42:36,599 --> 00:42:39,480
Bucks get beat the way they did. We you know, the injury kind

676
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:44,679
of complicates things for him, But
you have to, let's say you had

677
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:49,519
to consider the last six eight weeks
or whatever it's been. Probably, yeah,

678
00:42:49,679 --> 00:42:52,440
does does Yanna still win the award? And like, you still consider

679
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,280
his regular season numbers, You can
still consider the bucksh record, but you

680
00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:00,719
also consider what happened post bubble.
Do you think he's still wins? I

681
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,320
do, because I do think that
arguing look at the larger sample size will

682
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,280
eventually went out, but it's probably
closer. But I still think that he

683
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:12,039
would end up winning the award.
I think I agree, And I think

684
00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:16,960
what that tells us is that we're
actually seeing the parameters or the criteria for

685
00:43:17,039 --> 00:43:22,840
the award reaching more of a consensus. And that is to say that as

686
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:28,199
resistant as I think a lot of
like you know, bigger media personalities are

687
00:43:28,679 --> 00:43:31,880
and the basketball community at large,
are towards analytics and just numbers and looking

688
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,000
at the stats and all that stuff. I think what we're seeing and the

689
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:39,079
Honest's Award proves it is that,
like that's the safest way to vote,

690
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:45,559
because if you did so, say
you voted for Lebron or someone else,

691
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,679
you would get shouted down by everyone
saying, look at the book's record,

692
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,800
look at Yannest's stats, look at
look at his his BPM, his whatever,

693
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:58,760
catch all you want. We are
in truly historic territory. If that's

694
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,280
not value, I don't know what
it is like, and that's a really

695
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,159
like I don't like, I'm with
you. I think he probably should have

696
00:44:04,159 --> 00:44:08,639
won MVP. So I think what
that tells us is that, like Lebron

697
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:13,280
saying, we're caught up in narrative
I think I think if anyone benefits from

698
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,960
narrative, it's probably him for a
lot of the reasons you said, a

699
00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:20,119
lot of the sort of you know, additional factors beyond his play on the

700
00:44:20,119 --> 00:44:24,239
court that would have made his candidacy
more compelling than Janie's. But I think

701
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,320
what it shows us is that,
like people are just looking at the numbers

702
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:34,159
more than more than anything else,
because they're compelled. They're a very good

703
00:44:34,199 --> 00:44:37,079
way to base a good thing to
base your decisions on. It's a good

704
00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:40,280
way to make sure you're being rational
and not caught up in narrative. And

705
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,719
I think, to me, as
much as anything, Jannis was just the

706
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:49,880
obvious pick, but only if you're
focusing on the numbers. Because that's why

707
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,559
I asked the question about if we're
talking about if we considered these last few

708
00:44:52,679 --> 00:44:58,079
weeks, because you could not conclude
that Yannis was the best player in the

709
00:44:58,599 --> 00:45:01,000
in the league based on that.
You might think it was Nick Joki,

710
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,639
you might think it was Lebron,
you might you know, you could pick

711
00:45:04,639 --> 00:45:07,000
a bunch of Jimmy, but whatever
Junior, for a minute, it could

712
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:12,519
be could I mean, you know, Trey Burke had a hot run there

713
00:45:12,519 --> 00:45:15,199
for a minute. It made me
really think twice, like, yeah,

714
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:19,639
so I think that's kind of that's
my take on it. I just seems

715
00:45:19,639 --> 00:45:22,480
like the numbers are sort of starting
to win, and I don't think that's

716
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,360
good or bad. I think the
MVP is always going to be controversial.

717
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:29,400
But but that was sort of my
takeaway from from you honest, and I

718
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,519
think Lebron kind of got it wrong, even though like, if again,

719
00:45:32,519 --> 00:45:36,519
if we voted today, I probably
vote for him. Yeah, I think

720
00:45:36,519 --> 00:45:38,000
he got it wrong in this context, but I also like think that he

721
00:45:38,119 --> 00:45:44,800
touched on like actual issues with it
the yeah, but it's like the I

722
00:45:45,559 --> 00:45:47,519
don't know how you necessarily outline more
specific right to year. I actually think

723
00:45:47,559 --> 00:45:51,760
there probably was a case to be
made for Lebron, but the way that

724
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,480
some people framed it is I think
what you know incites the outrage that being

725
00:45:55,559 --> 00:45:59,760
said, I think they're you know, one of the things that we should

726
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,760
stop overreacting to is that one of
the best players in the world, or

727
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,840
these professional athletes who need to have
a ton of confidence to be at the

728
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,840
level they're at, thinking that they're
the best and that they should have won

729
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,800
stuff, because that's just going to
happen, whether you think whether they have

730
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:15,239
a valid point or not. And
then the other thing is that we don't

731
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,840
have to react to outrage to everything, because not everything needs to be in

732
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,360
sports. When we're talking about the
actual sport itself, the stuff happening on

733
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:23,800
the court, there doesn't need to
be this consensus. Now, do I

734
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:29,400
understand when people get angry about the
egregious stuff? Yes, And that's where

735
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,599
I might be in favor of voting, seeing like the number of votes shrink

736
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,519
for you know, the all NBA
teams or the all defense teams and stuff.

737
00:46:36,519 --> 00:46:38,920
The notion that Maria Taylor doesn't deserve
a vote is that shit crazy?

738
00:46:39,199 --> 00:46:44,400
But looking at others who maybe don't
cover the sport consistently, and I'm not

739
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,960
I'm not trying to single anyone out, but it's like, does if you're

740
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,760
only covering the NBA, Like if
you're just a general sports person, like,

741
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,280
why do you need to vote on
the NBA stuff? Certainly I would

742
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,239
even consider like if you're affiliated with
a certain team or your beat is to

743
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,840
cover one team, like how important
is it for them to have a vote

744
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:06,199
on these league wide topics or awards? And I'm not trying to diminish the

745
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,599
work that anyone does either, because
there are a team like Beat writers who

746
00:47:08,639 --> 00:47:12,760
take it very seriously. And I'm
not trying to call anyone app who doesn't,

747
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,000
you know, agree with the consensus
or agree with my thoughts or people

748
00:47:16,039 --> 00:47:21,119
who I respect thoughts, but if
you know, there's like a disconnect if

749
00:47:21,159 --> 00:47:24,719
someone's voting Lukadantis for all defense,
like there's just a there's a disconnect somewhere,

750
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,000
and like I'm not even just trying
to be mean there, So I

751
00:47:28,039 --> 00:47:30,199
don't necessarily know what the solution is
or but maybe being more selective with who

752
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:34,480
has votes would be a great place
to start. Yeah, I think that's

753
00:47:34,599 --> 00:47:38,119
right. I think it's just it's
just a it's really hard to sort of

754
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:44,679
hit the middle of the Venn diagram
of really follows the league incredibly closely and

755
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:49,800
does not have a bias because they
follow one team closer than every other team,

756
00:47:50,039 --> 00:47:52,400
right, you know, Like that's
a that's a thin slice in there,

757
00:47:53,079 --> 00:47:58,800
and I just I think maybe like
this is maybe the best we're gonna

758
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,400
do, and we're just gonna have
to live with it, because I don't

759
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:06,760
know how how you're gonna sort of
parse that any anymore. Finally, and

760
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,440
that's like, yeah, there's no
even on like this stuff, on the

761
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,800
stuff that matters where there shouldn't be
two sides, Like I get it,

762
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,960
but like there's no such thing as
like a non outrageous debate at this point,

763
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,519
like everyone shamed for it's actually like
regular opinions. I'm talking specifically about

764
00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:23,480
the things that are happening on the
court. So yeah, I don't.

765
00:48:23,519 --> 00:48:25,639
I think I'm with you. Probably
can't fix it, but maybe if you

766
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:29,480
were more selective again with who has
votes, that might do some of it.

767
00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:31,519
But I also see where you're coming
from too. Yeah, well,

768
00:48:31,559 --> 00:48:36,559
I always think back to I think
it was someone voted for Carmelo for MVP,

769
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,360
and I do remember the person's name. I'm not going to call him

770
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,920
out, but it was the only
vote he got, Like I forget however

771
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,920
many years ago it wasn't it was
it was Hurtine. I think, Yeah,

772
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,920
it was recent enough where it was
like Carmelo is still pretty good,

773
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,280
but that's ridiculous. You know.
It was the Knicks. Yeah, it

774
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,840
was that nixt fifty four win season
whatever, the benefit from one being on

775
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,320
the Knicks and they were just better
than you expected them to be like,

776
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,880
that's a like a narrative boom out. It wasn't even the Knicks guy though,

777
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,320
didn't make any sense. Oh yeah, anyway, you mentioned Paul George,

778
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:08,440
is that one real quick topic we
want to hit. Did you see

779
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,159
it? I was gonna say stuff
time for that or you want me to

780
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,559
to get you out of here?
Yeah, no, let's let's do that,

781
00:49:14,639 --> 00:49:17,960
because well, what are your thoughts? I think I'll just say that

782
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:25,400
it's it's real weird to me when
the specifics of eye rolling gets gets leaked

783
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,239
and we're talking about shams. Trania's
report that Paul George, you know,

784
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:34,840
tried to not rally the troops because
the series is over, but sort of

785
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,159
say like the word I think preaching
was even used, which feels like a

786
00:49:37,199 --> 00:49:39,920
lot of editorializing to me. He
was like you saying, let's run it

787
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,039
back and win the chip and it's
like, you know, maybe you should

788
00:49:43,079 --> 00:49:46,239
have given a similar speech like after
game six. Well right, yeah,

789
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,440
I mean like I missed, Yeah, there's not a game eight, Paul.

790
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:57,159
But I feel like I feel like
it's always fascinating to me to start

791
00:49:57,199 --> 00:50:00,360
to think about, like why why
did this come out? Who who who

792
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:06,519
decided to let it out? Uh? And and what's what what agendas are

793
00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:12,840
at work? Right? Because clearly
someone in the room decided that this needs

794
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,840
to be in the public. Uh, and it's gonna be bad for Paul

795
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:21,519
George and let's do it anyway.
So that I mean as much as anything,

796
00:50:21,639 --> 00:50:24,639
you we hear whispered about the chemistry
and that was a subject of it

797
00:50:24,679 --> 00:50:29,719
too. But it's like, if
that's happening, that's rough. That that

798
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:35,559
tells me that whether the eye rolling
happened or not, or whether Paul George

799
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:39,400
was quote unquote preaching, there is
like a real problem in in sort of

800
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:45,119
the dynamics of that team. Uh. And I feel like maybe Paul George,

801
00:50:45,199 --> 00:50:47,119
you know, I also like I
kind of think that, yeah,

802
00:50:47,159 --> 00:50:52,559
Paul George has just generally not performed
well in the playoffs and that's his reputation

803
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:57,159
and it was solidified and there were
I think, you know, to be

804
00:50:57,199 --> 00:51:00,519
fair to him, maybe injury he
did he said they been struggling with mental

805
00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:06,920
health in the bubble. Totally understandable, but but it so I think there's

806
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,440
validity to what came out, but
like that's a damning thing for the Clippers

807
00:51:10,599 --> 00:51:14,480
if the goal going forward is to
sort of keep a lot of these guys

808
00:51:14,519 --> 00:51:17,719
around, because I don't know if
you have sort of the lack of respect

809
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,840
for your teammates, if that's like
a salvageable thing. Yeah, I don't

810
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,599
even know who has the incentive to
leak it out. I know people sent

811
00:51:25,679 --> 00:51:31,559
the screenshot of sham Shania interviewing Lou
Williams and Montras Harrow way back. I

812
00:51:31,559 --> 00:51:36,239
don't know that you got one and
two. I mean, look, Carol's

813
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:37,840
going to be a free agent and
definitely probably lost money in the bubble.

814
00:51:38,199 --> 00:51:40,840
He wasn't with them the start,
dealing with the death of his grandma,

815
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,440
so all that stuff factors into it. But then also just this is a

816
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,840
cap for free agency landscape. Paul
George isn't going anywhere. I think there

817
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,320
are people that like spun this as
like, oh, like Paul George for

818
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,760
Bradley Beal, and like that's not
that's not a thing. I think it's

819
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:58,159
just more a sign of like there
needs to actually be measurable change in this

820
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,000
locker room next season. Like,
I don't know, you have the talent

821
00:52:00,039 --> 00:52:04,440
to win it all, but I'm
not sure if there's like that the synergy,

822
00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:06,760
like the chemical synergy is there.
And I'm not you know, I'm

823
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,480
not trying to overweight intangibles here,
but if the first thing that happens a

824
00:52:09,519 --> 00:52:13,599
couple of days after the season is
that you have like Sham's getting a you

825
00:52:13,599 --> 00:52:15,960
know, a second by second breakdown, Like there was eye rolling. Someone

826
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:21,320
twiddled their tombs three thumbs three times. Another person was picking his nose with

827
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:25,559
his left left left pointer finger,
like getting so specific that quickly it seems

828
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:29,920
like something's off. And they said
they're going to target a playmaker via trade.

829
00:52:30,039 --> 00:52:32,079
I don't think they can offer a
first round pick because their first available

830
00:52:32,119 --> 00:52:36,320
first round pick is in twenty twenty
eight, and so it's a seven years

831
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,679
out rule, and so I don't
know how that would work. I don't

832
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,960
think you can then, but it
would be imagine getting your hands on a

833
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:46,239
twenty twenty eight first round pick what
like. So it's sort of like,

834
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:50,480
yeah, everybody thought Daryl Morey was
gonna ditch Houston, and maybe that's not

835
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,880
gonna happen. So he was like, screw it. I don't care what

836
00:52:52,039 --> 00:52:55,440
happens with these twenty twenty six picks. It's like a stand Eric Gordon.

837
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,639
I'm not gonna be here. Absolutely. This is like the reverse of that

838
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:05,920
is like what GM has has confidence
enough in his job security to like acquire

839
00:53:06,159 --> 00:53:10,000
a twenty twenty eight pick, but
there's not gonna be there. So I

840
00:53:10,039 --> 00:53:14,239
think you're you're better at this stuff
than I am, or probably think about

841
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,000
it more. But to me,
like if the Clippers are talking about changing

842
00:53:17,119 --> 00:53:22,599
their options, feel like subtraction and
like nothing else because they're just Yeah,

843
00:53:22,679 --> 00:53:25,079
Harold's a free agent. I think
Jamichael Green is going back into free agency.

844
00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:28,760
You can correct me if and when
I get these wrong. He's a

845
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:34,119
player option, which I'm for five
million. That's like less than the minimlies.

846
00:53:34,199 --> 00:53:36,519
I think you should opt out.
But this this market is just so

847
00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:39,400
weird, right, who knows what's
happening, But like they don't have a

848
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:43,400
good if they sign and trade,
they'll hardcap themselves, Like I just what

849
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,599
are their avenues to where does this
playmaker come from? And like it's just

850
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:51,079
it's really difficult for me to see
an impact guy getting there unless you trade

851
00:53:51,079 --> 00:53:53,079
Paul George, And I also don't
think that's going to happen. Yeah,

852
00:53:53,079 --> 00:53:55,760
I think I'm totally with you.
The one thing they have going for them

853
00:53:55,840 --> 00:54:00,280
is that if they're willing to kind
of like bust up their depth a little

854
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,800
bit, they can combine like some
interesting salaries where it's you know, Lou

855
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:07,559
Williams is a usable player, Zoo
Box is an extremely useful player. Patrick

856
00:54:07,599 --> 00:54:12,639
Beverley, I'm still like three in
d ish, whatever you want to call

857
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,639
him. There you have Rodny mcgruders
as filler salary. You have Landry Shammitt.

858
00:54:17,559 --> 00:54:21,960
I just don't know what that like
get you. Like, I don't

859
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:23,880
know if if you gave Shammitt like
as part of the deal, if this

860
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:29,360
was Beverly Williams, zoobots and shamm
It, like, is that getting you

861
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:32,280
Drew Holiday? Oh? Man?
I don't I think you need a third

862
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:36,000
team that would send the Pelicans at
least another first round pick, like,

863
00:54:36,039 --> 00:54:37,519
and I don't know what player.
You know you could talk, You could

864
00:54:37,559 --> 00:54:42,239
talk yourselves into any one of those
players being good from New Orleans. But

865
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,280
if you're trading Drew Holiday, you
don't necessarily need any of those players.

866
00:54:45,559 --> 00:54:52,440
The other one that I've been a
proponent of, and it's like it's so

867
00:54:52,519 --> 00:54:55,519
wild and it's so out there,
but and it would be mostly on Oklahoma

868
00:54:55,559 --> 00:55:00,360
City wanting to just like save pure
money, Like you can get to Chris

869
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:05,480
Paul with the Clipper salaries, Like
if you just went Beverly Williams, Zubots

870
00:55:05,519 --> 00:55:08,280
and Magruder, you can bring back
Chris Paul. There's no way those two

871
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:12,559
teams are trading again. There's like, there's no how is that, There's

872
00:55:12,639 --> 00:55:15,719
no way. I can't I can't
even was it future considerations or maybe a

873
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:20,960
part of that deal where now Oklahoma
City does Yeah, this is slid although

874
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,880
I'm not sure that I could like
imagine Chris Paul in a locker room with

875
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:28,920
Paul George, Like there's if you
insofar as you could have three polar opposite

876
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:30,440
players, Paul George, Chris Paul, and Kwhi Leonard would be hit.

877
00:55:31,519 --> 00:55:34,880
Hey, you know what, Kawhi. It made me think of this,

878
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,079
like so Paul George seems to be
getting the flat, getting most of the

879
00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:45,199
flack to the extent that there's any
flack being distributed or catching flack whatever.

880
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:50,000
How come we're not maybe this is
out there? How come nobody's kind of

881
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,320
saying like maybe Kauhai is not that
great a leader, Like I'm not saying

882
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,519
I think that, but it does
seem like you maybe want to start at

883
00:55:57,559 --> 00:56:00,840
the top if your team falls apart
and it's Ken Street sucks, and it

884
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,239
don't feel like anybody really did that, maybe because Kawhi is just sort of

885
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,320
already demonstrated. You know, I
got two titles with two different teams,

886
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:14,239
IM Finals, MVP to all that
stuff, like he's unassailable. But you

887
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:19,159
know that Toronto team, there's like
seven really great leaders on last year's Raptors

888
00:56:20,079 --> 00:56:23,800
and it's not like Kauai was ever
like the guy on a Spurs title team.

889
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:29,679
So I do wonder if maybe you
know, obviously he's quiet. Obviously

890
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:34,320
his leadership style, to the extent
he has one, is unconventional. I

891
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,079
do think maybe he's getting off a
little light. Have you had that thought

892
00:56:37,159 --> 00:56:39,360
or am I off base? No? I haven't really had a thought,

893
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:43,360
But I also don't think you're off
base. Maybe it's just more so like

894
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,800
you you know what Kawhi Leonard is
now, and like like you said,

895
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:50,320
he is, there is that level
of unassailability because he has the two finals

896
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:52,800
MVPs. And also when you have
someone who plays I know it's not necessarily

897
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:57,159
during the regular season, but plays
so hard at both ends when it matters

898
00:56:57,199 --> 00:57:00,320
most, like they're probably exempt from
more criticism than like someone who's only going

899
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,960
to be super valuable on one end, like a James Harden. You know,

900
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:07,000
like we're not gonna destroy Kawhi Leonard
when he goes like six of nineteen

901
00:57:07,039 --> 00:57:13,000
from the floor or something like that. That being said, you mentioned like

902
00:57:13,039 --> 00:57:15,440
Toronto with him having the great leaders
and when you go to the Clippers locker

903
00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:19,159
room, if that's not Paul George
where it doesn't seem like his voice is

904
00:57:19,199 --> 00:57:22,639
respected, then who is it?
Because it does need to be someone amongst

905
00:57:22,679 --> 00:57:27,519
the players, and it does feel
like it would probably be Tres Beverley and

906
00:57:27,599 --> 00:57:30,760
lou Will. You Lou Will.
And it also feels like a lot of

907
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:35,159
what those guys might like runs counter
to everything that might get like Paul George

908
00:57:35,159 --> 00:57:37,320
and Kawhi Leonard going, whereas those
seems like guys that want to go eighty

909
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,239
two and zero and that would be
their leadership style. And I think that

910
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:45,400
I'm not even trying to you know, hashtag load management because Kawai really didn't

911
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:46,559
miss that many games to load management
this year. I think it was like

912
00:57:46,599 --> 00:57:50,639
sub fifteen, like he had natural
injury at one point, and I think

913
00:57:50,639 --> 00:57:53,039
it was sub fifteen that he missed
to just like scheduled maintenance, and one

914
00:57:53,039 --> 00:57:57,000
of those I think it was the
final game of the bubble. So I'm

915
00:57:57,039 --> 00:58:00,000
just saying that he's not going to
approach like he's going to play the law

916
00:58:00,199 --> 00:58:04,239
game more than these players who have
probably been underdogs now for most of their

917
00:58:04,239 --> 00:58:07,239
career, where Kawai was also born
into this basketball wise, this system,

918
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:12,159
this culture in San Antonio where he
hasn't had a worry necessarily about leading to

919
00:58:12,199 --> 00:58:15,280
that degree either, and they always
took the long view. And then you

920
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,400
go to Toronto where they really did
take the long view even though they only

921
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:21,119
had him for a year, because
they were resting him on the second and

922
00:58:21,199 --> 00:58:23,639
of back to backs and they were
giving him scheduled maintenance. And now you're

923
00:58:23,639 --> 00:58:30,920
going into Clippers land where there's not
necessarily someone who's like players who are I

924
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:32,960
guess okay with that if you're looking
at Harold Beverly and Low Williams, because

925
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,719
there was the report at the beginning
of the season that some of the Clippers

926
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:38,960
were rubbed the wrong way with how
the stars were being treated, and you're

927
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:43,039
not going to have like, you
know, Paul George isn't Kyle Lowry,

928
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,039
where it's Kyle Lowry seems like he
would want to go eighty two and ol

929
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:50,440
but understands the long game, and
whereas Beverly and lou William harrold As.

930
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,840
I keep saying, this is even
a shot against them, but it feels

931
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,159
like they would play or want to
approach every game like it's a do or

932
00:58:55,239 --> 00:58:59,559
die situation, and I just don't
see and this is not a shot of

933
00:58:59,639 --> 00:59:05,800
Kawai see him being as emotionally invested
that consistently or just in every game.

934
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,599
Yeah, No, I think I
was kind of not whatever falls a little

935
00:59:09,639 --> 00:59:14,000
short of being Devil's advocate, because
I think I do send a fall towards

936
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,079
the Kauhi. You can't you sort
of the way that he plays, you

937
00:59:17,199 --> 00:59:21,360
really you can't help but fall in
line, because there's never going to be

938
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:22,920
a point where you can say to
him after a loss, like you really

939
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,440
could have done more, you know, like that just doesn't He's like one

940
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:30,519
of the few players were lead by
example probably really well, yes, it's

941
00:59:30,519 --> 00:59:34,920
didn't really like yeah exactly, so
I think you know the reason he's probably

942
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,880
not getting a lot of Heat is
because you know he's done it already,

943
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,960
and when you watch him play,
even if he's having a rough game,

944
00:59:42,119 --> 00:59:45,480
there's really not going to be a
question of is he sort of cut out

945
00:59:45,519 --> 00:59:49,039
for this? I think that's like
beyond question at this point. But I

946
00:59:49,039 --> 00:59:51,559
don't know. I think I do
at the same time, think, you

947
00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:54,599
know, the playoffs. I guess
maybe this could be like a closing thought

948
00:59:55,239 --> 01:00:00,280
like that. More than ever this
year, the player the playoffs have minded

949
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,719
me that, like the regular season
is its own thing, and this was

950
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,239
a super weird regular season, which
makes it even more complicated. But so

951
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:13,159
much of what seems to matter during
you know, eighty two games or however

952
01:00:13,199 --> 01:00:19,280
many we played this year just is
not meaningless, but matters so much less

953
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:23,159
in the playoffs. It's just everything
changes. And I do think that what

954
01:00:23,159 --> 01:00:27,159
we've seen, look at the team, look at the seeds that are playing.

955
01:00:27,199 --> 01:00:30,079
Yeah, the Lakers are the one
seed, but you know you've got

956
01:00:30,119 --> 01:00:32,199
the what, the three, and
the five in the East, and to

957
01:00:32,239 --> 01:00:37,320
me, those are clearly the two
best teams, just I mean top to

958
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,840
bottom, and I don't think anybody
maybe the Celtics, but certainly not the

959
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:45,320
Heat. And it's just it's really
I don't know. It's gonna make me.

960
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:49,440
I think, I hope maybe I
get this feeling every playoffs, But

961
01:00:49,559 --> 01:00:52,760
I really think it's going to change
the way I think about and talk about

962
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,599
and write about teams during the next
regular season, because there's always going to

963
01:00:55,679 --> 01:01:00,119
be in the back of my mind, like the question of, well,

964
01:01:00,119 --> 01:01:02,199
how much does this really matter when
the games count? You know, the

965
01:01:02,239 --> 01:01:06,159
balls would be especially for a team
that's like kind of entrenched in that where

966
01:01:06,159 --> 01:01:08,280
it's like the buck Yeah, big
time, a big time, and like,

967
01:01:08,639 --> 01:01:10,239
I think you could flip it and
say, like, well, the

968
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:15,000
Warriors aren't looking so great. You
know, they're on pace for fifty one

969
01:01:15,039 --> 01:01:19,039
wins or forty seven wins or something, but you know, Draymond looks,

970
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,000
you know, like he's super washed
now instead of sword of washed or maybe

971
01:01:22,039 --> 01:01:25,400
not trying. Like I just think, I think, I'm I'm gonna have

972
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:29,440
to check myself and be like,
but here's what we know. When you

973
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,880
get in a playoff series, X, Y and Z happens and these guys

974
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:35,599
can you know. So I really
do think it's going to change the way

975
01:01:35,639 --> 01:01:39,320
I think about the regular season,
even more so than it used to.

976
01:01:40,159 --> 01:01:44,559
That's I never really thought of it
like that, and that's probably a good

977
01:01:44,599 --> 01:01:45,880
way to look at it. Any
great closing thought all of them. I

978
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,679
guess the last thing is like,
I don't know how to view these playoffs

979
01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:52,480
because the circumstances are so impressed dead
where it's like if they had played straight

980
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,239
through, is it any different for
the Bucks or the Clippers. I think

981
01:01:55,239 --> 01:01:59,719
you could probably make the argument that
maybe for the Clippers it is. But

982
01:02:00,239 --> 01:02:01,960
I think you're right that it's become
more clear than ever, and even based

983
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:07,119
on some of the decisions that teams
have made that the playoffs they are their

984
01:02:07,159 --> 01:02:09,400
own separate thing and you're going to
make wholesale decisions off that small sample size

985
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:13,239
because it matters so much. Yeah, I agree. Well, I think

986
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:15,840
you know, Bob Myers, there's
that clip from Sloan a year or two

987
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:21,840
ago maybe where he just talked about
how maybe I'm just been in He incepted

988
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:27,079
me and now I'm just preparenting Bob
Meyers because it was so so astute.

989
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,119
But he's just like, yeah,
you know, we just look for guys

990
01:02:30,159 --> 01:02:34,639
that perform well in the playoffs because
that's what we care about. And if

991
01:02:34,679 --> 01:02:36,840
you can perform well on the playoffs, you damn sure are going to be

992
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:39,559
a good regular season player. But
the reverse, clearly, I think,

993
01:02:39,639 --> 01:02:43,800
is not always going to be true. Grant, thank you so much for

994
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:46,039
letting me keep you fifteen minutes longer
than I promised that I would keep you.

995
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,800
It's always a pleasure to talk hoops
with you, guys. If you're

996
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,679
not following Grant on Twitter, please
remedy that immediately. When he tweets.

997
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:57,800
It's not often, but it's it
is often fire when he is tweeting at

998
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,000
GT Underscore, Hughes spelled exactly as
it sounds, covers the NBA for Bleacher

999
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:06,719
Report. I will sure enough be
pesturing him again in the near future.

1000
01:03:07,079 --> 01:03:08,480
Thank you so much, Grant,
and I'll talk to you soon. Yes,

1001
01:03:08,519 --> 01:03:13,039
sir, thank you, Hello Solomon, thank you so much for coming

1002
01:03:13,079 --> 01:03:16,719
on the podcast today as a fellow
Blue Wire podcaster. It's shameful that it

1003
01:03:16,719 --> 01:03:21,639
took me this long to get you
on a Hardwood Knox episode, but thank

1004
01:03:21,679 --> 01:03:25,039
you for your time in advance.
How are you doing today, Yeah,

1005
01:03:25,079 --> 01:03:28,639
I'm happy to be here too,
and listen like it's not like this is

1006
01:03:28,639 --> 01:03:31,000
the first time we're talking or communicating, so don't don't even worry about that.

1007
01:03:31,039 --> 01:03:34,639
You were on my podcast, I
mean just a couple of months ago.

1008
01:03:35,239 --> 01:03:39,519
So I'm pretty excited, Like I'm
this is this offseason for the Rockets.

1009
01:03:39,519 --> 01:03:44,039
This is going to be really really
interesting in terms of the direction they

1010
01:03:44,119 --> 01:03:49,119
choose to go from several different perspectives. Yeah, there are so many questions

1011
01:03:49,119 --> 01:03:52,039
with this team, and I think
probably the it's probably best to begin with

1012
01:03:53,119 --> 01:03:58,199
the immediate fallout from them losing in
five games of the Lakers, was Mike

1013
01:03:58,239 --> 01:04:01,800
D'Antoni just informs them that he is
going to leave and explore other opportunities.

1014
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,320
Since been linked to the Pacers and
the Sixers. I mean, he was

1015
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:09,039
linked to those teams before he even
left the Rockets. And so my first

1016
01:04:09,119 --> 01:04:14,079
question to you would be how surprised
were you buy the news or if the

1017
01:04:14,079 --> 01:04:17,880
news wasn't surprising, like, how
about the immediacy with which this decision came,

1018
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:21,280
because well, they've just been rubblings
for a while and we're talking about

1019
01:04:21,599 --> 01:04:25,199
you know, probably you know,
you're more you're way more plugged in.

1020
01:04:25,239 --> 01:04:29,519
So it might have even been before
last summer when the like extension talks or

1021
01:04:29,559 --> 01:04:32,039
non extension talks started or whatever.
Happened there. They're just been like those

1022
01:04:32,079 --> 01:04:35,639
sort of murmurings that something was going
to happen, and so I'm just curious

1023
01:04:35,679 --> 01:04:41,559
as to what your impression was about
obviously the outcome of him leaving, but

1024
01:04:41,639 --> 01:04:45,760
just the way that it also unfolded. So I was definitely in the minority

1025
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:49,280
and that I didn't dismiss the idea
that Mike D'Antoni would return next season,

1026
01:04:49,519 --> 01:04:53,920
and that's from you know, what
I thought of what they were going to

1027
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,079
do, and also like from what
I've heard, like, I just thought

1028
01:04:57,119 --> 01:05:00,159
the Rockets were going to can really
think about bring him back, and I

1029
01:05:00,199 --> 01:05:05,280
thought I remember hearing Darryl Mori say
that he would make bringing Mike D'Antoni back

1030
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:11,519
a priority. Of course, general
managers lie all the time, but I

1031
01:05:11,599 --> 01:05:15,599
really did believe that they would explore
the possibility to bring him back. And

1032
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:18,440
the way the Lakers series played out
was just shocking. I mean, I

1033
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:24,280
expected it to be a six or
seven game series, but LA just pummeled

1034
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:29,480
Houston, and it's kind of the
loss that makes both signed, both sides

1035
01:05:29,519 --> 01:05:34,199
of the negotiation kind of reevaluate things. And I just got the vibe and

1036
01:05:34,239 --> 01:05:36,800
the postgame presser like, yeah,
this is a dude who was kind of

1037
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:41,960
figured out what direction he wants to
go in, and the presser was very

1038
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,039
reflective about his time at Houston.
He was very grateful to the organization,

1039
01:05:45,679 --> 01:05:48,559
and when I asked him about what
the team needed to do moving forward to

1040
01:05:48,599 --> 01:05:51,719
improve, which is like a normal
question ask to a coach, he gets

1041
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:58,039
eliminated, like he dodged it.
And I kind of thought, based on

1042
01:05:58,119 --> 01:06:01,039
how this series ended up that press
conference and how much bad blood there seemed

1043
01:06:01,079 --> 01:06:05,559
to be between Mike d'antoni's agent,
Warren Legarry, and the Rockets, that

1044
01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:12,280
D'Antoni was considering other options. And
what I didn't expect was for him to

1045
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,199
make his decision so quickly, like
he had his mind made up by the

1046
01:06:15,559 --> 01:06:20,079
afternoon the next day. That was
shocking, But listen, if he's gonna

1047
01:06:20,119 --> 01:06:23,599
leave either way, this was actually
the right way to do it. It

1048
01:06:23,679 --> 01:06:27,239
was classy for him to put out
a statement thinking the organization and the city

1049
01:06:27,239 --> 01:06:30,320
of Houston. The breakup was clean
and it gives Houston a head start in

1050
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:34,280
their coaching search. They no longer
have to worry about whether or not they

1051
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:39,960
can convince D'Antoni to return and they
can chase some of these highly sought after

1052
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,280
coaches on the market. I think
D'Antoni did that on purpose, actually as

1053
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,960
a favor to Houston, and he
gets an early start the interview process because

1054
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:51,360
some of these teams are interested in
D'Antoni. And listen, like, after

1055
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:56,400
his time in Houston, d'antoni's stock
is way up. There are going to

1056
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,559
be a lot of teams interested in
the services. Remember, this is the

1057
01:06:59,599 --> 01:07:02,639
guy who's basically shunned out of league
after his stints in LA in New York,

1058
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:06,119
and he had to become an assistant
with the Sixers, which is kind

1059
01:07:06,119 --> 01:07:10,800
of crazy for a guy with his
resume. When the Rockets hired him,

1060
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:14,559
they were mocked. I suspect the
next team that hires him will be rightfully

1061
01:07:14,599 --> 01:07:16,719
celebrated, because this is a guy's
a Hall of Fame coach, and I'm

1062
01:07:16,719 --> 01:07:21,159
happy he's finally getting that respect.
Yeah. Yeah. The one thing I'll

1063
01:07:21,159 --> 01:07:26,159
say is I thought them leaning into
Microball might have just suggested that not only

1064
01:07:26,239 --> 01:07:29,679
was he more priority for them,
but maybe they were just closer on the

1065
01:07:29,719 --> 01:07:33,039
same page. And I think also
the weirdness comes from, like you just

1066
01:07:33,079 --> 01:07:38,639
don't see the coach team relationship typically
end in this manner like we're always just

1067
01:07:38,719 --> 01:07:43,280
used to. There's either the mutual
parting spin or for the most part,

1068
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:45,280
they just end up getting fired.
Like you never just see coaches leave in

1069
01:07:45,639 --> 01:07:49,599
what's effectively free agency. And so
that was just kind of disarming a little

1070
01:07:49,639 --> 01:07:53,599
bit. And I will say it'll
be objectively hilarious if he goes from coaching

1071
01:07:53,599 --> 01:07:56,360
a team that has like a six
five six sixth center to then go into

1072
01:07:56,360 --> 01:08:00,920
the sixers, where you know their
point guard is like six six six,

1073
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,440
right, the smallest the smallest player
in their starting line up plus season,

1074
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:05,960
which Josh Richardson who is six six
I believe, So that would be objectively

1075
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:09,679
hysterical, and it would have to
be a completely different style. I guess

1076
01:08:09,679 --> 01:08:13,400
he has some familiarity there from being
an assistant, but that would just be

1077
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:16,439
absolutely funny for me looking at it
from the Rockets perspective though, And I

1078
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:20,560
know these are sort of loaded questions, but are there any coaching candidates that

1079
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:25,119
are available that still stand out to
you that might be interesting fits for this

1080
01:08:25,159 --> 01:08:28,279
team or names that you've just heard
bandied about that we should expect to take

1081
01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:31,279
most seriously as they begin their search
yeah, So there's gonna be a lot

1082
01:08:31,319 --> 01:08:36,000
of games linked to the Rocket search, and I suspect that they're going to

1083
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:41,279
do a long interview process. But
I think the guys that go to the

1084
01:08:41,319 --> 01:08:44,239
top of the list are going to
be guys with some head coaching experience because

1085
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:46,800
listen, like Harden's thirty one years
old, they don't they don't have time

1086
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:50,800
to wait for a young head coach
to learn on the fly. So I

1087
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:55,359
think they're gonna look for someone with
some head coaching experience. And I think

1088
01:08:56,079 --> 01:09:00,279
I think you really look at that
former player of coaches, because I think

1089
01:09:00,279 --> 01:09:03,920
those guys can relate to James Harden
in a way that D'Antoni was able to

1090
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:10,560
successfully do, because like D'Antoni developed
a really strong wish to which was hardened,

1091
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:15,000
and like that's probably the most undercovered
part about the Rockets in d'antoni's relationship,

1092
01:09:15,079 --> 01:09:19,399
Like those guys were tight, and
like there were points in press conferences

1093
01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:26,119
where James would defend D'Antoni. Like
those guys developed a strong, strong relationship,

1094
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:29,600
and I think the next coach is
going to be looking to do that.

1095
01:09:30,079 --> 01:09:31,960
And I think I think you look
at guys like Tylu, like tylu

1096
01:09:32,039 --> 01:09:38,239
fits the guy fits the profile of
a coach the Rockets would like to bring

1097
01:09:38,319 --> 01:09:41,880
in, because first of all,
he's a former player, he's coach superstars,

1098
01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:45,880
he knows how to deal with egos. He's a really good offensive coach.

1099
01:09:45,039 --> 01:09:47,880
And I don't think Tyler got enough
credit for what he did in Cleveland,

1100
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:53,039
Like the Cavs were consistently a top
five offense every single year he was

1101
01:09:53,079 --> 01:09:56,359
there, And that's not just Lebron, right, Like tylu is a really

1102
01:09:56,359 --> 01:09:59,720
creative, out of time out coach, Like he was really good with the

1103
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:04,199
clip board, and for some reason, I suspect that's just Lebron right,

1104
01:10:04,239 --> 01:10:08,800
Like when when Lebron's on your team, you just tend to get less credit

1105
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:12,319
for everything you do. And that's
not just coaches, that's players. I

1106
01:10:12,319 --> 01:10:15,159
mean, look, you look at
a guy like Chris Bosh, You look

1107
01:10:15,199 --> 01:10:19,039
at I mean Eric Spoelstra went when
he was the head coach for those heat

1108
01:10:19,079 --> 01:10:26,159
teams, and it's just it's just
a Lebron effect that goes from top down

1109
01:10:26,199 --> 01:10:30,000
the organization. But Tyludd does deserve
credit for their offense. Their offense is

1110
01:10:30,039 --> 01:10:34,159
really good, and I think you
look at guys who the Rocket have interviewed

1111
01:10:34,199 --> 01:10:39,479
before and had strong interest in,
like Steven Silas, like associate head coach

1112
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,840
of the Dallas Mavericks, the guy
I think the Rockets will take an very

1113
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:46,159
strong look at. He was a
finalist for the job in twenty sixteen when

1114
01:10:46,159 --> 01:10:54,039
they hired Mike and the Rockets were
actually considering making Silas the lead assistant to

1115
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:59,239
Mike D'Antoni and they ended up going
with jeffiz Delic instead. But that's a

1116
01:10:59,279 --> 01:11:01,359
guy I think the Packets will taking
a look at. Chris Finch is a

1117
01:11:01,359 --> 01:11:05,880
guy the Rockets discovered about him.
Yeah, he's a guy who the Rockets

1118
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:10,920
discovered in Germany and they brought him
into through their G League system. Very

1119
01:11:11,079 --> 01:11:13,960
very much a Nick Nurse type of
higher if they chat, they choose to

1120
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:18,560
go in that direction because they brought
him up and he was an assistant coach

1121
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:24,680
on Kevin McHale's staff, so he
knows James Harden and they have a relationship

1122
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:30,680
already established. He's been an associate
head coach for three different teams already,

1123
01:11:30,319 --> 01:11:35,680
three good teams already, and he's
regarded as like an offensive savant type,

1124
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:42,159
like he's really really smart and a
lot of people around the league talk about

1125
01:11:42,199 --> 01:11:45,439
him as the next head coach that
just hasn't got his job yet, right,

1126
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:48,039
Like he just hasn't got his foot
in the door. But I very

1127
01:11:48,119 --> 01:11:51,079
much suspect that that's going to change
in the next couple of years. And

1128
01:11:51,159 --> 01:11:55,239
he makes a lot of sense in
that regard, right if they if they

1129
01:11:55,239 --> 01:11:58,880
weren't going to go in a former
player kind of direction, those are the

1130
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:02,840
assistants I would take a hard look
at. Also as far as the former

1131
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:09,720
player perspective, Sam Cassell for the
Clippers, that's a you know, I

1132
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:13,880
mean he was on the Rockets during
their Clutch City days and he won two

1133
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:16,520
championships with the team. They have
a relationship with him. He has put

1134
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,760
in his due. He's been an
assistant coach for like twelve years and now,

1135
01:12:20,119 --> 01:12:25,119
So it make a lot of sense
in terms of the relationship these organizations

1136
01:12:25,159 --> 01:12:29,680
have with each other. The fact
that he's a former player and you know

1137
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:30,640
the amount of time he's put in, so you know, those are the

1138
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:34,680
kind of names I would say makes
sense to the top. I think the

1139
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:41,000
Rockets will also take a strong look
at Jeff Van Gundi and that that that

1140
01:12:41,119 --> 01:12:43,279
to me, is the most interesting
one, right, Like, I think

1141
01:12:44,079 --> 01:12:46,319
I think people regard Jeff as someone
who may be out of touch with the

1142
01:12:46,319 --> 01:12:49,800
modern NBA, right, And I
just don't think that's true. And I

1143
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:54,840
think Jeff is a guy who watches
a ton of basketball even to this day.

1144
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:56,560
I mean when he was a coach, I was he was on another

1145
01:12:56,640 --> 01:13:00,159
level, right, Like, I'm
not sure people remember how neurotic Jeff us,

1146
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:05,319
Like this guy lived in the film
room and watched a ton of basketball.

1147
01:13:05,359 --> 01:13:09,880
And I think you look at the
rosters he was handed, right,

1148
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,560
Like he had a roster with Patrick
hu and he had a roster with y'all,

1149
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:15,319
ming like these are rosters that can't
play modern NBA offense. So I

1150
01:13:15,359 --> 01:13:18,720
don't I think it's unfair to regard
him as out of touch. And if

1151
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:23,760
you look at the defenses that Jeff
coach, he never coached a team outside

1152
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:28,399
of the top six and defense.
That's insane. That's that's a ridiculous Like

1153
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:31,319
that's nine seasons not one of those
teams outside the top six and defense.

1154
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:36,119
So from a defensive perspective, the
Rockets could certainly use a voice like Jeff.

1155
01:13:36,159 --> 01:13:39,159
I mean, this is a team
that's the middle of the pack,

1156
01:13:39,239 --> 01:13:42,640
defensively the past two years. I
think one of the big reasons they haven't

1157
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:46,000
been able to break through the conference
finals again is the fact that their defense

1158
01:13:46,079 --> 01:13:50,279
isn't strong. So yeah, Jack
is a guy that you just consistently here

1159
01:13:50,359 --> 01:13:55,199
attacked this organization every time it was
an opening. And I think you look

1160
01:13:55,279 --> 01:13:59,680
back at two thousand and seven when
the Rock has decided to part ways with

1161
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:01,960
Jeff. I think, listen,
MORI was just two weeks from the job,

1162
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:05,760
Like he had to make a decision
very quickly. He was promoted on

1163
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:10,279
May first, three out and seven, had to fire Jeff May fourteenth,

1164
01:14:10,359 --> 01:14:13,560
two thousand and seven. Right,
That's that's a very quick turnaround for a

1165
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:16,279
young general manager. And I think
he thinks back at that time, and

1166
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:18,840
you know, I'm not sure if
he regrets it, but I think he

1167
01:14:19,399 --> 01:14:25,199
regrets he never got the time to
talk with Jeff and really break break bread

1168
01:14:25,239 --> 01:14:28,079
with him. I mean, these
guys have a close relationship now, Like

1169
01:14:28,119 --> 01:14:30,800
these guys play tennis together. I
think like they're really close, and they're

1170
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:34,560
both Houston natives, like Jeff lives
in Houston, so that it would make

1171
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:39,399
a lot of sense to go with
Jeff and I you know, I'm not

1172
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:42,000
sure what kind of relationship him and
James have. I think that's gonna be

1173
01:14:42,079 --> 01:14:45,439
pretty key. Like if if Jeff
were to get the job, he would

1174
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:48,000
have to reach out to James pretty
quickly like D'Antoni did. Like D'Antoni first

1175
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:50,680
thing he did when he got the
job was called James Harden, and I

1176
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:55,039
think that went a long way with
him, and I think Jeff would have

1177
01:14:55,039 --> 01:14:59,239
to do something similar. Yeah,
I think the relationship between Hard and D'Antoni

1178
01:14:59,279 --> 01:15:00,600
was one that was always on or
played. And even like you know,

1179
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:06,680
James Harden doesn't really give at least
i'll say great group interviews or the TV

1180
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:11,520
interviews, but even he gave D'Antoni
an endorsement after the Game five loss,

1181
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,079
and so I thought that just went
like it was. I don't want to

1182
01:15:14,119 --> 01:15:15,359
say it was swept under the rug, but like we only look for when

1183
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:20,479
players don't give strong enough endorsements of
head coaches when we ask if they they

1184
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:23,640
want them back, like if they
give the answer of well, I'm not

1185
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:26,920
in charge of contracts and this and
that, and Harden seemed pretty definitive and

1186
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:31,079
that he wanted D'Antoni back. You
mentioned a lot of interesting names there,

1187
01:15:31,159 --> 01:15:34,319
and so one I agree with you
on the point that I think Jeff and

1188
01:15:34,319 --> 01:15:39,479
Gunny's probably more interesting than most people
give credit. He's just he's different when

1189
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:42,520
he's sort of outside the ESPN broadcast, if you hear him talking on a

1190
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,399
podcast or even at times during the
broadcast where it's like he doesn't seem like

1191
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:48,479
there were just moments where it comes
across it feels like he hates the modern

1192
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:51,800
day MBA, and so it'd be
it would be I would laugh if he

1193
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:56,600
ends up coaching a team that's leaning
all the way into microball, assuming they're

1194
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:59,279
going to stay that route. But
he also like he noticed his stuff,

1195
01:15:59,319 --> 01:16:02,239
and like you don't you know,
you don't take over, You don't take

1196
01:16:02,239 --> 01:16:05,479
the reins of a team as a
head coach if you're not prepared to,

1197
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:10,760
like especially now, and especially in
a dal Moore's The Joys, where he's

1198
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:14,239
going to outline the style that he
wants to play specifically and then just try

1199
01:16:14,279 --> 01:16:16,279
and completely run counter too. And
so I don't think he necessarily be a

1200
01:16:16,399 --> 01:16:20,399
terrible choice. It would be interesting
to see them go with a defense first

1201
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:27,720
head coach, because it's is their
offensive ecosystem just so you know default because

1202
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,279
it has James Harden and that's really
all it needs. I would say this,

1203
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:35,279
so if they do decide to go
with a defensive first head coach like

1204
01:16:35,359 --> 01:16:39,359
Jeff Van Gundy, I would look
strongly at who their assistant is going to

1205
01:16:39,399 --> 01:16:42,479
be, and I would look at
Brett Gunnings, who's already on their coaching

1206
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:45,359
staff right now. That's a guy
who's going to be a lead assistant in

1207
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:47,359
the next couple of years and then
a head coach like he's on that kind

1208
01:16:47,399 --> 01:16:51,199
of a track. He's extremely intelligent. He's been with three Rockets head coaches

1209
01:16:51,239 --> 01:16:56,039
already, including Jeff Van Gundi,
like he was on Jeff n Gundi staff

1210
01:16:56,039 --> 01:16:58,960
and he's still on the staff today, so that gives you a kind of

1211
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:03,159
insight in terms of how long he's
been with the organization. So I would

1212
01:17:03,199 --> 01:17:06,159
say you look at a guy like
Brett Gunnings to be the lead assistant there

1213
01:17:06,159 --> 01:17:11,439
because he designed a lot of the
offense under D'Antoni. So if Jeff is

1214
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:14,800
going to be the head coach,
I would I would look I would look

1215
01:17:15,359 --> 01:17:17,840
at who that leads it's going to
be as someone who kind of leaves the

1216
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:25,359
offense while Jeff leads the defense.
And my last question on just that this

1217
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:28,680
topic would be, do you think
that they won't hesitate to go in the

1218
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:31,159
direction of what would be a first
time head coach, even if it's someone

1219
01:17:31,279 --> 01:17:35,760
like Chris Finch that they have pre
existing ties too. Yeah, that's gonna

1220
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:39,880
be interesting. So, like,
I just you know, this is just

1221
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:43,000
a gut thing. I think they
want. They want someone with head coaching

1222
01:17:43,039 --> 01:17:49,199
experience to just considering their former public
statements and considering hardened age and that they

1223
01:17:49,279 --> 01:17:51,159
don't want to, you know,
mess around here. They don't want to

1224
01:17:51,359 --> 01:17:55,119
hire someone who's unproven only to find
out he's not ready for the job.

1225
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:58,439
But if they do go with an
assistant, they're gonna go with someone with

1226
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:02,279
a lot of coaching experience. Adrian
Griffin is a guy who's been coaching for

1227
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:06,920
you know, several decades now,
right like that that's an assistant coach that

1228
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:11,199
might get it. I mean,
he was definitely on the Rockets interview list

1229
01:18:11,279 --> 01:18:15,359
in twenty sixteen, so that's definitely
someone. Steven Silas, son of Paul

1230
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:18,680
Silas, right like, it's been
in the league for twenty one years.

1231
01:18:19,119 --> 01:18:23,000
So if they go with an assistant, that that assistant's gonna have a ton

1232
01:18:23,079 --> 01:18:27,199
of experience, and I think if
they if they don't go, if they

1233
01:18:27,199 --> 01:18:29,119
don't go with that kind of a
route, I think they're gonna just gonna

1234
01:18:29,119 --> 01:18:32,840
go with a former player. So
either it's a former player uh turned head

1235
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:38,640
coach, or they're gonna go with
someone with a ton of assistant coaching experience.

1236
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:42,279
I would say, if you were
to narrow it down, I the

1237
01:18:42,399 --> 01:18:45,479
most interesting names of me and I
honestly don't think they'll end up going with

1238
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:47,159
him would be would be Sam Cassell
there. And so if they were going

1239
01:18:47,199 --> 01:18:51,880
to go like with a first time
guy, I kind of hope it's Sam

1240
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:55,760
Cassell. But their head coaching spot's
gonna be fascinating to watch. And I

1241
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:59,319
do agree with your point that it
feels like, yeah, MDA made this

1242
01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:01,640
decision, like for both his and
the team's sake, Like now he should

1243
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:04,960
have his pick or at least have
a chance to interview for teams that before

1244
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:09,479
the vacancies fell up, and then
it gives the Rockets a head start on

1245
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:13,000
and good for him, man,
Like he gets out and he has the

1246
01:19:13,159 --> 01:19:16,680
most leverage now right like now,
like he's not the guy who got fired,

1247
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:19,359
or he's not the guy who waited
around for the Rockets, he's the

1248
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:24,560
guy who left early. And now
every team in the NBA with the head

1249
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:28,720
coach opening is at least taking a
look at D'Antoni, which is, you

1250
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:31,359
know, good for him, good
good, good for him. So the

1251
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:36,279
the actual basketball stuff, looking at
the players, a lot of people are

1252
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:43,800
spinning the second round loss as gloom
and doom, and I'm just as as

1253
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:46,359
sort of a harbinger that the Rockets
need to do something substantial or that they're

1254
01:19:46,399 --> 01:19:53,199
missing this huge piece. Is that
nova reaction given the circumstances where not only

1255
01:19:53,399 --> 01:19:57,920
were you you know, Russell Westbrook's
dealing with the clod injury, but also

1256
01:19:58,079 --> 01:20:01,920
just looking at the season and Jen
where it's just this unprecedented environment. You're

1257
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:06,199
inside the bubble. Everyone's been away
from their their normal way of life for

1258
01:20:06,239 --> 01:20:11,359
so long. The season is dragged
on for approximately forever, and so I'm

1259
01:20:11,399 --> 01:20:13,840
wondering, if you know, is
there amount of leeway that needs to be

1260
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:16,000
given, or do you when you
look at what happened with this team,

1261
01:20:16,119 --> 01:20:18,479
who, by the way, it
was also missing Daniel House towards the end

1262
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:21,319
of that series as well, Or
do you look at this team and still

1263
01:20:21,399 --> 01:20:24,560
say that, you know what,
No, something's off with the way that

1264
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:28,279
it felt like they I don't want
to belittle professional players efort, but it

1265
01:20:28,359 --> 01:20:30,960
just felt like they rolled over towards
the end of that series. You look

1266
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:31,880
at this team and say, you
know what, there does need to be

1267
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:36,720
a substantive change made. And I'm
not talking blow it up Trey James Harden

1268
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:40,920
because that's just not going to happen
because of how good Harden is and he

1269
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:44,920
doesn't necessarily see him unhappy in Houston
right now. But you know, looking

1270
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:48,720
basically at everything else, is this
a sign that they need to make at

1271
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:55,479
least a semi major move this offseason. No, you're not wrong about their

1272
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:58,760
effort in that series. I mean
there is there is a game where the

1273
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:01,279
Lakers at fifty two rebounds in the
Rockets at twenty six, right, Like,

1274
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:06,319
that's that That's just ridiculous, And
I language experts were having a field

1275
01:21:06,399 --> 01:21:10,600
day. Didn't. Oh, yeah, for sure, and they should.

1276
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:15,520
I mean, the Rockets looked miserable
and uh, it looked like the Lakers

1277
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:16,920
figured them out. As soon as
they went with a D at center.

1278
01:21:17,399 --> 01:21:21,840
They completely figured out the Rockets and
they were closing out on their shooters extremely

1279
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:26,520
quick, like the Rockets were attempting
fifty three's a game in the series before

1280
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:30,199
in that series, they're attempting like
thirty right like they the Lakers knocked off

1281
01:21:30,279 --> 01:21:35,560
like twenty attempts from from their three
point attempts, which is ridiculous. And

1282
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:40,920
Uh, as far as like a
major change, yeah, I mean it's

1283
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:44,079
totally in question, like not out
of the question that they would try to

1284
01:21:44,119 --> 01:21:47,840
do that. The problem here is
so Westbrook's contract is going to be difficult

1285
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:50,640
to move, right, Like,
if that's the kind of the understatement of

1286
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:55,319
the year, if that's the kind
of change you're implying, Like, listen,

1287
01:21:55,359 --> 01:21:58,439
they don't have any draft picks,
and I don't know what you do

1288
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,800
with that contract, right, Like, I think you're stuck. Like Westbrook

1289
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:05,439
is going to be back next season. And as far as James Harden,

1290
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:10,039
you just he's thirty one years old
and he's a top seven player in his

1291
01:22:10,159 --> 01:22:12,920
prime. You don't you don't trade
those players. We have them in your

1292
01:22:13,039 --> 01:22:18,039
organization because listen, to rebuild is
going to be solely dictated at finding another

1293
01:22:18,159 --> 01:22:21,319
James Harden, So you already have
that person in hand, there's no point

1294
01:22:21,439 --> 01:22:27,079
in trying to go get that guy, and the roster is already very good.

1295
01:22:27,199 --> 01:22:29,560
I mean they may they may not
be good enough to win a championship,

1296
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:31,760
but they're already very good, so
you know, deciding to tear it

1297
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:35,720
down doesn't make a whole lot of
sense to me. I think you look

1298
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:41,960
at guys like Eric Gordon and Robert
Covington. Those are guys with contracts substantive

1299
01:22:42,079 --> 01:22:45,199
enough for major trades if they decide
to go in that direction. They don't

1300
01:22:45,199 --> 01:22:48,800
have draft picks, of course,
so I don't know how they managed to

1301
01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:51,520
pull that off. I think they'll
definitely explore the trade market. I think

1302
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:57,439
you look at the draft, like
the Rockets almost traded for Brandon Clark at

1303
01:22:57,479 --> 01:23:00,600
the draft last year, right,
They almost traded Clint Capella for the pick

1304
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:03,800
that ended up becoming Brandon Clark,
and that's a deal that didn't end up

1305
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:08,199
happening. So if you look at
when the draft comes around, that's definitely

1306
01:23:08,239 --> 01:23:11,079
gonna be a time where I would
watch the Rockets as a team that may

1307
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:14,880
try to move up or try to
get a pick and you know, maybe

1308
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:18,720
use that pick as fodder for another
trade. That's definitely something you have to

1309
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:21,159
be. You have to keep in
mind with the team with no draft picks,

1310
01:23:24,039 --> 01:23:26,560
and you know, I think the
coaching change is going to be a

1311
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:30,479
big part of that culture reset that
we're talking about right, Like the next

1312
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,159
head coach has to emphasize defense in
a way that they're not accustomed to.

1313
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:39,479
Because listen, man, like if
you were to pin down one reason why

1314
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:43,279
they haven't broke through the last two
years, like to the conference finals,

1315
01:23:43,319 --> 01:23:46,119
it's their defense. Their defense has
not been good enough. They're they're fifteenth

1316
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:50,600
this year, seventeenth the year before. Yes, they turned it onto a

1317
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:53,960
level we didn't expect in the layoffs, but I don't think you can you

1318
01:23:54,039 --> 01:23:57,840
can break bad habits like that.
I think those habits are built in in

1319
01:23:57,960 --> 01:24:00,319
training, camping, and largely you
are what you are by the time the

1320
01:24:00,399 --> 01:24:03,800
postseason comes around. So you know, I think a lot of their defense

1321
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:06,640
and listen, I'll admit I was
wrong here, like a lot of their

1322
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:11,239
defensive smoking mirrors. Like I thought
their defense will legit it was, it

1323
01:24:11,359 --> 01:24:15,399
wasn't. And I think their next
head coach has to emphasize that. As

1324
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:18,279
far as from a roster perspective,
they're gonna need to use their non tax

1325
01:24:18,359 --> 01:24:25,079
pyramid level exception like Tilman, for
Tita is a guy who for the most

1326
01:24:25,159 --> 01:24:30,479
part, most NBA fans know who
he is, and that's because he has

1327
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:33,000
not paid the luxury tax yet.
And this is a year where it listen,

1328
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:35,520
it's put up or shut up,
you know, like you bought the

1329
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:41,520
team four years ago or no,
three years ago, and you you largely

1330
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:46,840
walked into a contendership position. And
what contenders do when they're at the point

1331
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:51,439
where the Rockets are is pay the
luxury tax. And I think if you

1332
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:56,479
look at what the Rockets could do
this summer, I think the most significant

1333
01:24:56,520 --> 01:25:00,199
move they could do to improve their
roster is used that non tax payamid level

1334
01:25:00,239 --> 01:25:03,600
exception to get a real player like
they did in twenty seventeen when they signed

1335
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:08,960
PJ. Tucker. Right to sign
that kind of a player, uh to

1336
01:25:09,119 --> 01:25:12,760
a multi year deal. And if
if, if it's a good enough player

1337
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:16,319
that's that's flexible enough and malleable enough
defensively you can really fit into your your

1338
01:25:16,359 --> 01:25:20,640
scheme, your scheme of microball,
and your idea of switching everything. And

1339
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:25,800
I think you look at the kind
of players I'm talking about I'm really thinking

1340
01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:30,279
of a a five that can space
the floor and switch on defense, which

1341
01:25:30,319 --> 01:25:33,600
is extremely hard to find, right. Uh. And you know, like

1342
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:39,680
you're really talking about limited pool players
like maybe Jamichael Green, maybe you know,

1343
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:43,560
Serge Ibaka, those type of players, and you know, ja,

1344
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:45,760
Michael Green's not even a five,
right, He's just he's would just would

1345
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:49,600
be one in this system. So
those are the kind of players I think

1346
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:55,720
the Rockets should search for with their
non Tex pyramid level exception. And it's

1347
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:58,359
gonna be tough. Those players are
gonna be highly, highly sought after,

1348
01:25:59,600 --> 01:26:02,720
and I think I think they have
a legit chance at you know, some

1349
01:26:03,319 --> 01:26:08,399
good bargain basement deals. But I
don't think you're going to find a bargain

1350
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:11,560
basement deal that's going to make up
of what this roster is lacking. Yeah,

1351
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:14,199
there's the free agency market's really tough
to read. I mean, like,

1352
01:26:14,239 --> 01:26:16,239
look, you mentioned to Michael Green, who's like a siren song for

1353
01:26:16,359 --> 01:26:19,479
me, and he has a player
option for five million dollars that I'm not

1354
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:24,239
even sure if he should decline,
Like I'm assuming he'd get more than the

1355
01:26:24,279 --> 01:26:26,800
mini mL E, but like,
I don't know, just because this is

1356
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:30,039
such a cat poor market right now, and I would think that that means

1357
01:26:30,079 --> 01:26:32,159
you should be able to maybe you
know, you'll get a bigger bang for

1358
01:26:32,199 --> 01:26:35,159
your buck if you're using the Nontax
perramid level like the Rockets. But then

1359
01:26:35,279 --> 01:26:39,399
also that's roughly the money that two
thirds, if not more, of the

1360
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:43,600
league is going to be working with
as well, and so that makes it

1361
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:47,720
really confusion to really confusing to iron
out targets. But you know, so

1362
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:50,720
you delved into like two of the
next topics that I was going to talk

1363
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:56,119
to you about. And so if
one I guess before we're asking you about,

1364
01:26:56,159 --> 01:26:58,800
like a certain player or anything,
is do you expect them, like

1365
01:26:58,920 --> 01:27:00,039
per the report, no matter who
who the head coach is, like to

1366
01:27:00,159 --> 01:27:04,760
really stick with this Microball model.
Oh yeah, and listen, I mean

1367
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:10,800
you sent me your rundown before the
podcast, and that last question was gonna

1368
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:14,720
be a I was gonna tackle this
right, Like the biggest misconception about their

1369
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:19,199
team is that Microball's experiment. Like
I've still talked to other media people who

1370
01:27:19,279 --> 01:27:23,000
believe the Rockets are going are you
gonna stop playing this way? And they

1371
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:28,479
because they got eliminated and Mike Tony
walked away like yeah, like like it

1372
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:31,319
or not, Like they're bringing this
brand of basketball pack. Like they might

1373
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:35,119
make some tweaks the roster better accommodated. They might get bigger, bigger,

1374
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:41,039
but bigger does not mean like a
seven foot center. Bigger. It means

1375
01:27:41,119 --> 01:27:44,640
like a six to eight six and
nine foot forward, right, uh,

1376
01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:48,640
which which would be bigger technically because
they're that small, right, And that's

1377
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:51,399
what I would look to. I
don't think they're gonna get, uh,

1378
01:27:51,640 --> 01:27:56,960
you know, someone like I don't
know, I can't even think of a

1379
01:27:57,039 --> 01:28:00,319
center. I'm the free agent marketplace
right now. But I don't think they're

1380
01:28:00,319 --> 01:28:02,199
gonna they're gonna look for a traditional
center. I think they're gonna go for

1381
01:28:02,319 --> 01:28:08,880
someone who is malleable defensively fits into
this scheme. And you look at the

1382
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:13,039
way Russ likes to play. I
mean, he needs a space floor more

1383
01:28:13,079 --> 01:28:16,680
than anybody on this team. Like
the Rockets really took off when or Russ

1384
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:21,039
really took off with the Rockets when
he had four shooters around him to really

1385
01:28:21,119 --> 01:28:26,680
operate and do his damage. Yeah. So I mean, like even in

1386
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:29,640
I think names that will probably everyone
will say that they just need a big

1387
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:30,880
and like, look, that's not
going to be their style, which I

1388
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:35,199
think is fine because I think this
style is disruptive and you probably need to

1389
01:28:35,359 --> 01:28:41,840
deepen the archetype of player that you
want to make this work. But I

1390
01:28:42,119 --> 01:28:44,760
do feel like it can work,
and it did. There were some interesting

1391
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:48,840
results for the Rockets this year,
and they made some teams visibly uncomfortable at

1392
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:50,880
times. I we just even look
at the Oklahoma City Series. I don't

1393
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:54,680
win seven games, but like there
were just moments where it was like,

1394
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:57,600
well, why is Billy Donovan still
Steven Adams on the floor. Yeah,

1395
01:28:57,680 --> 01:29:00,279
but Billy Donovan did not do a
good job in that series. And it's

1396
01:29:00,359 --> 01:29:02,960
like you're making me get on my
high horse right now because I had strong

1397
01:29:03,039 --> 01:29:06,600
opinions of that series. But that
was not a well coach series. I

1398
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:11,039
know it when seven, but I'm
gonna pull out the process over results card

1399
01:29:11,079 --> 01:29:14,880
here like that that that that that
was not a well coacht series. Like

1400
01:29:15,239 --> 01:29:18,039
like the way that series went,
the thundershould have won, Like there were

1401
01:29:18,239 --> 01:29:23,399
there were advantages that they could have
exploited and beat the Rockets, and I'm

1402
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:28,960
really disappointed that they didn't go with
a their best lineups and be they didn't

1403
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:34,840
downsize at all. Oh against the
Rockets, you have to so for something

1404
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:39,319
like the Rockets, like let's say
it's a I probably wouldn't give him the

1405
01:29:39,319 --> 01:29:42,000
philimly, but like it does a
Paul Millsap. Is that like a type

1406
01:29:42,039 --> 01:29:45,119
of player that they would be interesting
and trying to use it like their their

1407
01:29:45,159 --> 01:29:48,640
four or five spot. Yeah,
that's interesting. So Paul Millstop is definitely

1408
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:54,399
someone that would kind of fit this
kind of a system. But you know,

1409
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:57,960
like Paul Millstop's not probably not going
to start for the Rockets if you

1410
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:01,920
were to like, so that's what's
most interesting to me. So like if

1411
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:04,359
you look at Paul mill Stap at
this stage in his career, like what

1412
01:30:04,479 --> 01:30:08,199
does he want? What does Paul
mill Stapp want? Because if he wants

1413
01:30:08,239 --> 01:30:11,279
to start, I can tell you
right now, Denver is not starting him

1414
01:30:11,319 --> 01:30:14,680
next year. They got they got
a nice player and Jeremy Grant that fits

1415
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:17,640
much better with what they want to
do. And I think, I think

1416
01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:20,640
if you're Paul mill Stapp, you
really have to reevaluate some things in terms

1417
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:24,960
of what kind of role you have
with your current team, what kind of

1418
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:29,680
money do you want moving forward?
And can you can you you know,

1419
01:30:30,439 --> 01:30:34,119
take a step back in both of
those regards, because that's kind of the

1420
01:30:34,359 --> 01:30:39,000
bet the ideal path for Paul Millsap
moving forward in terms of if he wants

1421
01:30:39,039 --> 01:30:44,399
to maximize his championship winning window.
A player that this is just it's not

1422
01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:46,319
even suggested target because they can't get
him. I guesses that'll get more than

1423
01:30:46,479 --> 01:30:49,439
m mL. You know, probably
get it from his incoment team. But

1424
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:53,319
Jay Crowder is a player where you
look at and it's like, how is

1425
01:30:53,319 --> 01:30:59,039
he not played for the Rockets already? Yeah, that's interesting because Jay Crowder

1426
01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:04,199
was a guy who just looked not
as good like two years ago, right

1427
01:31:04,279 --> 01:31:10,000
Like, this is a guy who
value completely fell off a cliff until he

1428
01:31:10,079 --> 01:31:14,880
got to Miami, and Miami really
revitalized him from a from a player perspective.

1429
01:31:15,079 --> 01:31:17,039
And I don't know, I kind
of like where he's at, Like

1430
01:31:17,399 --> 01:31:20,079
if I were Jay Crowder, I
tried to get back to Miami, and

1431
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:25,079
I like, yeah, the Rockets
could definitely use a player like that.

1432
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:29,840
But I don't know if if Jay
Crowder would want to leave his current situation.

1433
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:31,319
I mean, listen, like the
Heat might make the finals, Like

1434
01:31:31,359 --> 01:31:38,199
we're we're in uncharted territories right now, Like we have a legitimate chance to

1435
01:31:38,319 --> 01:31:43,399
see a Nugget Heat finals. Like
that's a Q are making. The NBA

1436
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:45,960
office is shake right now. Adam
Silver's gonna make a call if it looks

1437
01:31:45,960 --> 01:31:50,239
like we're getting Nuggets. Yeah,
I mean it is. It is crazy.

1438
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:56,119
Full props to both of those teams
for having the postseason they're having,

1439
01:31:56,319 --> 01:32:00,640
but yeah, I mean if the
if the Heat make a legitimate pushed to

1440
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:03,239
the finals, Like, I don't
know why Jay Crowder would want to leave

1441
01:32:03,279 --> 01:32:06,600
that situation. You know, I
think the only scenarraw that I could see

1442
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:10,039
it because I absolutely agree with you. Just he's been shooting, like he's

1443
01:32:10,079 --> 01:32:13,239
had good shooting seasons before, but
since he's been to Miami, he's been

1444
01:32:13,359 --> 01:32:16,359
just lights out. And then look
even for their part, like to acquire

1445
01:32:16,439 --> 01:32:20,039
someone who was one of your primary
Yannis defenders at the trade deadline, it's

1446
01:32:20,079 --> 01:32:23,920
like someone who was so important to
the way that you defended Jannis through those

1447
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:29,239
you know, let's say two plus
games and against Milwaukee is a pretty big

1448
01:32:29,359 --> 01:32:32,920
deal. But I think the pathway
would be, let's say Jannis doesn't look

1449
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:35,399
like he's going to sign his Supermax, not saying he's demanding a trade,

1450
01:32:35,399 --> 01:32:39,079
but if he's stilln't play for twenty
twenty one, maybe Miami really wants to

1451
01:32:39,079 --> 01:32:43,960
conserve cap space, at which point
would Jay Crowder and even Dragic would fall

1452
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:46,520
into this discussion of are they willing
to come back on bloated one year deals

1453
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:49,720
or someone like Crowder who is on
the wrong side of thirty unless you're giving

1454
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:53,199
him, you know, twenty five
or thirty million dollars to come back,

1455
01:32:53,479 --> 01:32:56,159
or is he gonna want maybe if
you threw a four year offer at him

1456
01:32:56,520 --> 01:33:00,199
to leave. But the kind of
curveball you already mentioned this is they might

1457
01:33:00,279 --> 01:33:02,119
make the finals, and so that
just up ends, you know, everything,

1458
01:33:02,239 --> 01:33:04,039
like that sort of a situation where
it's like, well, you bring

1459
01:33:04,119 --> 01:33:08,159
everyone back and you figure it out
later if you need to get Honestly,

1460
01:33:08,239 --> 01:33:12,079
so, he would be certainly out
of play the in my mind if he

1461
01:33:12,159 --> 01:33:15,720
becomes in play that that would absolutely
shock me. One of the other names

1462
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:18,479
I'd written down, and I'm not
sure that he's like he's a touch and

1463
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:21,479
gohot shooter. But they also did
bring in Jeff Green, but like a

1464
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:27,159
mo Harkless seems like he would fit
perfectly on defense with Houston. That's the

1465
01:33:27,279 --> 01:33:30,119
kind of player I think I would
look more at more than a Jake Crowder

1466
01:33:30,239 --> 01:33:34,039
right like Mo Harkless definitely fits more
what the Rockets want to do, and

1467
01:33:34,319 --> 01:33:39,640
like he like his situation is not
enviable, right like, I think the

1468
01:33:39,760 --> 01:33:43,159
Rockets have a chance to really pry
him. And if you really look at

1469
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:45,199
what the Rockets would try to spend
for a player like that, I think

1470
01:33:45,359 --> 01:33:49,880
you're looking at not you probably not
the full tax non tax perramid, little

1471
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:53,560
exception. I don't think mohrk has
worked that, but I think you're probably

1472
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:57,920
looking at Listen, if they decide
to dodge the luxury taxis here, I

1473
01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:01,720
mean you're looking at something gonna be
very angry if that affits right. You're

1474
01:34:01,760 --> 01:34:05,600
looking at their taxpayers in the mid
level exception. As far as his price

1475
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:09,560
tag, I don't. I don't
think I was just kidding there. I

1476
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:12,720
don't think they can. I don't
think they can talk Dodd's luxury tax,

1477
01:34:13,359 --> 01:34:16,279
given their right up against it right
now. So you know, I think

1478
01:34:16,319 --> 01:34:18,319
I think they might as well go
for it and use all of it.

1479
01:34:18,359 --> 01:34:21,319
But I don't think. I don't
think they would use all of their their

1480
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:27,439
their non taxpayer mid level exception on
mohark was I don't think that is necessarily

1481
01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:29,319
the best use of your funds.
I think you'd use some of it.

1482
01:34:29,399 --> 01:34:30,840
I don't think you'd use all of
it, No, for sure, And

1483
01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:34,199
you know the heat the Knicks could
always overpay him for one year because who

1484
01:34:34,239 --> 01:34:36,199
the hell knows what they're doing at
this point. But yeah, I have

1485
01:34:36,319 --> 01:34:40,720
the rockets within and I just could
be off. But if you're you know,

1486
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:44,479
guaranteeing your salaries and if Austin Rivers
picks up his player option, which

1487
01:34:44,479 --> 01:34:45,359
I'll ask you about in a second, like that, I have them within

1488
01:34:45,439 --> 01:34:49,720
two million dollars with the tax before
adding anybody that's with one minimum cap charge

1489
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:53,600
based on their their roster stuff.
So they absolutely, if they're going to

1490
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:57,960
use their MLA, unless they're going
to end up shedding salary somewhere, they're

1491
01:34:57,960 --> 01:35:01,720
absolutely going to go into the tax. And maybe that builds Fatiitas some goodwill

1492
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:04,159
because he said it for the past
three years that they would pay the tax,

1493
01:35:04,199 --> 01:35:08,760
but it's kind of yet to do
it. But they absolutely, I

1494
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:12,079
mean they have to, like that's
the only meaningful tool you have to improve

1495
01:35:12,119 --> 01:35:15,439
your team, which this was the
only other way, and you kind of

1496
01:35:15,479 --> 01:35:18,680
touched on this to do it would
be in my mind is can you find

1497
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:25,199
someone to take on the Eric Gordon
deal which suddenly just does not like that

1498
01:35:25,479 --> 01:35:29,000
looks terrible, like that might be
that extension. I think it's, you

1499
01:35:29,079 --> 01:35:32,439
know, the last year's fully non
guaranteed, one of the most interesting like

1500
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:35,640
non guarantees by the way that I
remember in a contract and reason memory.

1501
01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:40,039
But he has three years and fifty
four point seven million left. And I

1502
01:35:40,159 --> 01:35:43,039
know some people might say, well, you could like attach Dropper Covington to

1503
01:35:43,119 --> 01:35:46,720
him, but I look at Covington
and Tucker as indispensable to this Houston roster

1504
01:35:46,920 --> 01:35:49,920
more so than even a Russell Westbrook
would be, just because of how they

1505
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:53,560
want to play and what you're going
to need them to do on defense.

1506
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:58,199
And so could you see I know
Daryl Morey's ultra aggressive, but and unless

1507
01:35:58,239 --> 01:36:01,680
I'm reading I'm unless I'm reading their
pick commitments wrong, because it's so bizarre

1508
01:36:01,760 --> 01:36:06,079
they're twenty twenty two first rounders should
be in play since twenty twenty one's a

1509
01:36:06,159 --> 01:36:10,560
swap, and then they don't owe
one until twenty twenty four. Could you

1510
01:36:10,640 --> 01:36:15,039
see them trying to go out there
and like offer a Eric Gordon, Daniel

1511
01:36:15,119 --> 01:36:17,159
House, you know, twenty twenty
two first rounder package, just to see

1512
01:36:17,279 --> 01:36:23,079
like what might stick for such an
offer. I mean that's the kind of

1513
01:36:23,159 --> 01:36:25,720
deal you do when you're trying to
rebuild, right Like, That's that's the

1514
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:29,399
kind of deal you do when you're
trying to just shed cap. And I

1515
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:31,800
don't know if the rockets are you
know, I mean they're not going in

1516
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:35,479
that direction. I think you're kind
of if you can't move Eric Gordon for

1517
01:36:35,560 --> 01:36:41,239
some value, you're probably gonna have
to bring them back. And I agree

1518
01:36:41,239 --> 01:36:44,840
with you. Robert Cummington is pretty
indispensable. I think they they made that

1519
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:48,279
Clink Capella trade with the long term
implications, right uh. And I think

1520
01:36:49,239 --> 01:36:53,479
if you if you can't find value, like if you can't find legitimate like

1521
01:36:53,600 --> 01:36:57,720
compensation for Robert now Robert coming for
Eric Gordon, that gives you something that

1522
01:36:57,760 --> 01:37:01,520
can improve their your roster, or
that can help you make trades that help

1523
01:37:01,560 --> 01:37:04,359
you improve your roster, I don't
think they do it. So I think

1524
01:37:04,399 --> 01:37:08,960
what you're really looking at is the
most likely scenario for Houston this summer is

1525
01:37:09,439 --> 01:37:13,239
they really spend it into the luxury
tax this year by using their their mid

1526
01:37:13,359 --> 01:37:16,680
level exception. Uh, they use
every tool available for them on the trade

1527
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:20,039
market. Uh, at least they
try to. Uh. And they and

1528
01:37:20,119 --> 01:37:23,439
they bring in a you coach,
right, And I think I think that's

1529
01:37:23,479 --> 01:37:26,520
probably what you're looking at for It's
it's boring, right, like it's it's

1530
01:37:26,600 --> 01:37:30,119
it's not it's not exciting. But
I think that's probably the most likely scenario

1531
01:37:30,199 --> 01:37:33,199
for the rockets. Well, that
was I was actually I wasn't even talking

1532
01:37:33,239 --> 01:37:36,279
about trying to dump his money,
but it was like, is that you

1533
01:37:36,319 --> 01:37:39,640
know, would to see see what
kind of value you can get, Like

1534
01:37:39,880 --> 01:37:43,199
let's look at a rebuilding team like
Chicago, where if they have a chance

1535
01:37:43,239 --> 01:37:45,640
to get a first round pick in
twenty twenty two, and they can talk

1536
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:47,920
themselves in there saying well, if
their protections aren't too heavy, like who

1537
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:50,800
technically knows where the rockets will be
at that point? And so if you

1538
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:54,920
can turn a Gordon and there need
to be filler there, I don't.

1539
01:37:54,920 --> 01:37:58,600
I don't think Gordon house alone work. There might need to be another small

1540
01:37:58,640 --> 01:38:00,479
contract, but you can guarantee is
Clemens and or if you can get an

1541
01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:03,640
auto porter for that package. Like
is that I meant, is that like

1542
01:38:03,720 --> 01:38:06,840
a type of deal that they would
consider. I know people have mentioned there's

1543
01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:12,079
framework where you can get Al Horford, but I don't think he's He has

1544
01:38:12,119 --> 01:38:15,000
some switch on defense still, but
I don't really think that he kind of

1545
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:18,600
look in the truest, the most
literal sense of the term, he doesn't

1546
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:21,239
fit micro ball. But even like
looking at if you want to forget about

1547
01:38:21,279 --> 01:38:25,279
his size and look at his play
style, just really don't think that he

1548
01:38:25,359 --> 01:38:27,600
fits that mode. And so I'm
wondering if, like a, you'll think

1549
01:38:27,600 --> 01:38:30,640
getting Auto Porter Junior in exchange for
you know, they're dangling that twenty two

1550
01:38:30,640 --> 01:38:33,760
first, then they're just using Eric
Gordon's money as an anchor. If that's

1551
01:38:33,800 --> 01:38:39,560
the type of framework that they might
consider at this juncture. Yeah, that's

1552
01:38:39,600 --> 01:38:44,439
interesting auto Porter huh. So,
I mean, I guess the question you

1553
01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:47,199
ask is, like who fits better
for this specific Rockets team, right,

1554
01:38:47,239 --> 01:38:51,199
the idealized version of Eric Gordon or
the idealized version of auto Porter, Right,

1555
01:38:51,199 --> 01:38:55,239
because both of those guys haven't played
up to their idealized versions in the

1556
01:38:55,319 --> 01:38:59,319
past couple of years, right,
And I don't know, honestly, those

1557
01:38:59,359 --> 01:39:03,159
guys are both at their peaks pretty
good players and fit they both fit into

1558
01:39:03,199 --> 01:39:06,880
this this framework. I think,
I think if you could find a way

1559
01:39:06,960 --> 01:39:12,119
to pry Auto Porter, I think, yeah, that's definitely a deal that

1560
01:39:12,239 --> 01:39:16,239
you'd consider, right, I don't
see, see where would you pay?

1561
01:39:16,359 --> 01:39:19,880
Where would you play him? Though? Okay, So like I suspect that

1562
01:39:20,039 --> 01:39:24,760
Eric Gordon was going to start next
year, right if if if you if

1563
01:39:24,800 --> 01:39:28,479
you get out a Porter, right, you're bringing You're bringing in James Hard

1564
01:39:28,520 --> 01:39:31,399
and Russ PJ. Tucker. Those
are those three are starting for sure,

1565
01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:35,600
right, And I suspect Robert Cummington's
gonna start there. So you think you

1566
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:40,840
think you think Auto Porters become it's
a fifth start in that situation that would

1567
01:39:40,840 --> 01:39:45,039
be my guests in large part because
I mean in theory you're looking at that

1568
01:39:45,199 --> 01:39:48,359
trade wol technically cost you like two
would be starters also in Eric Gordon and

1569
01:39:48,479 --> 01:39:53,279
Daniel House like two candidates at least. And so I think Roco can at

1570
01:39:53,319 --> 01:39:57,159
least Porter is probably better going up
against the just I'm not saying the better

1571
01:39:57,239 --> 01:40:00,760
defender overall, but he's probably best
suited to go up against the the bigger

1572
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:02,800
wings maybe who aren't as quick and
you know, defend more fours and then

1573
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:06,600
you can trust Roe code to kind
of go against the smaller players because he's,

1574
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:11,840
like I mean in Houston, he's
he basically gives you five position range

1575
01:40:11,880 --> 01:40:14,520
on defense. But I think he's
always given you kind of four position range

1576
01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:16,439
on defense. So I think that
actually would make it rather easy to fit

1577
01:40:16,840 --> 01:40:19,800
in auto porter alongside both he and
PJ. Tucker. But I could be

1578
01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:27,520
wrong there. Yeah, it's it's
definitely something like he makes a lot of

1579
01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:30,880
sense, right, Uh. I
guess the question you have to ask yourself

1580
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:32,399
if if you're the Rockets in that
situation is like, do you want to

1581
01:40:32,920 --> 01:40:35,640
do you want to give a both
air Cort and Indanuel House? Like,

1582
01:40:35,680 --> 01:40:40,000
because those are two players that you
know fit in your into your your system

1583
01:40:40,079 --> 01:40:44,439
next year US and you're trading for
one and that that one player can be

1584
01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:47,079
more effective than both of those two
players. But how much more effective that

1585
01:40:47,119 --> 01:40:50,520
can you make up for what you're
losing in Daniel House on the open market?

1586
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:54,560
I'm not sure? You know,
Like maybe maybe you can, and

1587
01:40:54,600 --> 01:40:59,720
then you can maybe you can use
that that that mid level exception to make

1588
01:40:59,800 --> 01:41:02,159
up what you're losing in that in
that case and you know, perhaps even

1589
01:41:02,199 --> 01:41:06,760
get better. Yeah, that's it. I think that's the kind of trade

1590
01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:10,239
the Rocket to do at the end
of the rops. He's as opposed to

1591
01:41:10,239 --> 01:41:12,600
the beginning of their ropsas And if
that makes sense, if they can figure

1592
01:41:12,640 --> 01:41:15,319
out what their roster looks like and
then they make that trade, I think

1593
01:41:15,319 --> 01:41:17,760
it makes more stense in that situation. It almost has to be too,

1594
01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:23,039
because I don't even know. I
am not like, I can't looking at

1595
01:41:23,119 --> 01:41:25,000
Eric Gordon's extension. I'm just not
sold on it. So I don't know

1596
01:41:25,039 --> 01:41:28,439
how much it costs to basically eat, you know, the final two years,

1597
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:30,680
because you know, he's cheaper than
out of Porter or substantially this year.

1598
01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:32,800
And I think that's how you talk
yourself in and giving up the first

1599
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:35,720
end house is because then you're you
know, this isn't about shedding money.

1600
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:39,880
But Otto Porter Junior also comes off
the books next year, and so if

1601
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:43,279
you need to move on like it
gives you a little bit more flexibility there.

1602
01:41:43,399 --> 01:41:45,079
But that it feels like that's the
type of swing that this team would

1603
01:41:45,119 --> 01:41:47,520
make. I'm not even saying it's
exact it's that exact one, but I

1604
01:41:47,560 --> 01:41:51,920
feel like Morey is all about optimizing
the window around James Harden. So he

1605
01:41:53,079 --> 01:41:55,479
might take. You know, people
look at Eric Wardons say, well,

1606
01:41:55,520 --> 01:41:58,520
you can't move him, but like
I feel like Darrow Morey could maybe find

1607
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:00,359
a way to take that. I'll
call him medium size swing because you're not

1608
01:42:00,399 --> 01:42:05,000
going to turn him into this immense
value in return. But that does feel

1609
01:42:05,039 --> 01:42:08,720
like the type of at least the
nature of it. So I'm not even

1610
01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:11,039
trying to pat myself in the back
here, but that seems like the like

1611
01:42:11,399 --> 01:42:15,319
the type of deal that the Rockets
would consider at some point over the offseason

1612
01:42:15,399 --> 01:42:17,239
once they figure out, well,
how much does it kind of cost for

1613
01:42:17,359 --> 01:42:21,680
another team to to take on the
final two years of Eric Gordon's deal.

1614
01:42:23,279 --> 01:42:25,960
Yeah, and it makes sense.
That is definitely the type of deals you

1615
01:42:26,039 --> 01:42:30,600
have to explore if Houston. And
what what you mentioned about Auto Porter's contract

1616
01:42:30,680 --> 01:42:33,279
coming off the books is interesting to
me because for the Rockets, PGA Tucker's

1617
01:42:33,439 --> 01:42:36,560
contract comes off the books next year, right, So you're looking at a

1618
01:42:36,640 --> 01:42:41,000
situation if you make that trade where
you get Auto Porter and PJA Tucker off

1619
01:42:41,079 --> 01:42:44,760
your books next year. Uh,
it's not I haven't even done the math

1620
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:47,920
yet, Like you're bringing this trade
to me, Uh, completely out of

1621
01:42:47,920 --> 01:42:51,359
the blue. Sorry, Like it
came to me after I had I DMed

1622
01:42:51,399 --> 01:42:54,479
you, and I was like,
that's like, because I've been trying to

1623
01:42:54,520 --> 01:42:58,399
find like Eric Gordon trades like in
Fury, and not many have stood out.

1624
01:42:59,319 --> 01:43:02,399
No you, that is like I
was definitely looking at the Al Horford

1625
01:43:02,479 --> 01:43:06,880
type of trades like for Houston,
but this one makes a lot more sense

1626
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:10,840
logically for what they want to do
next year. So I'm gonna have to

1627
01:43:10,880 --> 01:43:12,880
I'm gonna have to sleep on this. I'm gonna have to think about this,

1628
01:43:13,239 --> 01:43:16,119
Uh, do some mats after this
podcast is over. But yeah,

1629
01:43:16,399 --> 01:43:19,720
that is interesting. I will say
if in that scenario, and they could

1630
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:23,520
obviously add players, I'm with the
year deals, but if you were dealing

1631
01:43:24,039 --> 01:43:29,920
House and Gordon and getting back Porter, you only have three guaranteed players on

1632
01:43:30,000 --> 01:43:32,960
the books for the twenty two season, and that's Russell Westbrook, James Harden,

1633
01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:36,000
and Robert Covington, and so you
have no cap space because those three

1634
01:43:36,039 --> 01:43:41,520
players are costing you over one hundred
million dollars. But like, that's still

1635
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:44,680
plenty of flexibility under whatever the tax
ends up being, and maybe you could

1636
01:43:44,720 --> 01:43:47,479
do other stuff. So food for
thought. I did want to ask you

1637
01:43:47,520 --> 01:43:51,520
about the like current players who they
you know, they have to kind of

1638
01:43:53,279 --> 01:43:56,600
make calls on their future. I'll
say, so you have Austin Rivers has

1639
01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:59,199
a player option. I don't know
whether you have a feel if you think

1640
01:43:59,239 --> 01:44:00,960
he's going to ex or sizes that
because it's two point four million dollars,

1641
01:44:01,399 --> 01:44:06,760
Ben McLamore two point three non guaranteed
salary. And then the one of the

1642
01:44:06,800 --> 01:44:10,199
players who there's Jeff Green who wass
a free agent, they don't have his

1643
01:44:10,239 --> 01:44:13,600
bird rights, and then David Nuaba, who they kind of picked up late

1644
01:44:13,680 --> 01:44:15,079
in the season knowing he wasn't going
to play. They got that club option.

1645
01:44:15,119 --> 01:44:17,439
I know he's coming back from an
achilles injury, but he's always just

1646
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:21,880
been like a I like the deal
they signed him too. That was smart

1647
01:44:21,960 --> 01:44:26,720
because look, he's someone who's defended
positions one through four for a few years

1648
01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:30,079
now, and like specifically during his
time in Cleveland, like he was hitting

1649
01:44:30,119 --> 01:44:32,079
his catch and shoot threes, and
so like those are the looks that Houston

1650
01:44:32,119 --> 01:44:35,079
would ask him to take. They're
not going to have him do anything else

1651
01:44:35,239 --> 01:44:39,880
on offense basically, and so if
you can count on his positional range still

1652
01:44:40,399 --> 01:44:43,720
because he is he's on the shorter
side I think he's six four, but

1653
01:44:43,800 --> 01:44:47,000
he's defended four is like consistently,
like not spot duty, but consistently,

1654
01:44:47,039 --> 01:44:50,640
And so that gives you just a
ton of optionality defensively. So unless his

1655
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:57,079
Achilles recovery is going terribly, my
guests would be for this specific situation,

1656
01:44:57,119 --> 01:45:00,680
I would think that they pick up
his team option. Oh yeah, for

1657
01:45:00,760 --> 01:45:03,039
sure. They signed that contract with
the idea of picking up his team option

1658
01:45:03,159 --> 01:45:08,520
one. And you know, like
he gives you You're right, he gives

1659
01:45:08,520 --> 01:45:14,479
you so many, so much optionality
defensively, And I think it was smart

1660
01:45:14,520 --> 01:45:16,039
of Houston to sign this deal because
first of all, you don't need him

1661
01:45:16,039 --> 01:45:18,520
this year, so I mean,
and you you can afford to sign him

1662
01:45:18,560 --> 01:45:24,199
for whatever two year deal you want. And I think, I think what

1663
01:45:24,399 --> 01:45:27,640
he gives you defensively, it's kind
of similar to like what Luke Imba Mute

1664
01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:30,079
gave you, Like this is the
that Luke Imba Mute type of signing that

1665
01:45:30,199 --> 01:45:33,840
they signed. What was it in
two hundred years ago? Now? Yeah,

1666
01:45:34,119 --> 01:45:38,319
yeah, yeah, that's so.
Yeah, it's it's a very similar

1667
01:45:38,399 --> 01:45:42,039
kind of deal because it's a bargain
basement deal. It doesn't cost you much

1668
01:45:42,159 --> 01:45:45,960
and and you know, He's a
guy who's proven himself at his peak ability

1669
01:45:45,039 --> 01:45:48,680
to be a really good defender.
So let's talk about those three players you

1670
01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:53,359
mentioned. I think from a money
perspective and a basketball perspective, they can

1671
01:45:53,399 --> 01:45:56,279
only afford to bring like two of
those player three players back next season.

1672
01:45:57,680 --> 01:46:01,000
Let's start with the money. There's
a strong possibility that Austin Rivers opts out

1673
01:46:01,039 --> 01:46:05,039
of his player option to seek a
bigger, bigger role and more money elsewhere.

1674
01:46:05,640 --> 01:46:10,119
He turned down more money to return
to the team last summer, but

1675
01:46:10,239 --> 01:46:13,680
he might not do that again.
I think he negotiated his contract last summer

1676
01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:17,760
with that intentionality. As far as
Jeff Green's concerned, look, there is

1677
01:46:17,800 --> 01:46:23,079
a possibility that it dumps. A
dump team saw Jeff Green performing the playoffs

1678
01:46:23,520 --> 01:46:26,560
and is willing to overpay him.
We know that happens every year. It

1679
01:46:26,600 --> 01:46:30,000
could very well happen with Green.
I know the Rockets would like to bring

1680
01:46:30,039 --> 01:46:31,520
them back, but if they can't
sign him back to a bargain contract,

1681
01:46:31,560 --> 01:46:36,560
I don't think they resign him at
all. And from a basketball perspective,

1682
01:46:36,640 --> 01:46:43,680
they need to rethink their roster from
a stronger defensive identity, because I think

1683
01:46:44,000 --> 01:46:45,800
in that case they can afford to
bring two of these guys back. Like

1684
01:46:45,960 --> 01:46:49,840
Ben McLamore is a nice player to
have, but he couldn't find playing time

1685
01:46:49,880 --> 01:46:54,520
in the playoffs. Jeff Green is
fine defensively in moments, but you don't

1686
01:46:54,520 --> 01:46:57,800
want to depend on him. And
as far as Austin Rivers concerned, the

1687
01:46:57,920 --> 01:47:01,840
way that Houston has necess hesitated it's
bigger players, I don't know if he

1688
01:47:01,960 --> 01:47:04,439
really fits into what they want to
do moving forward. I think he fit

1689
01:47:04,680 --> 01:47:08,680
in that Chris Paul, Clint Capella, James Harden framework. I don't think

1690
01:47:08,720 --> 01:47:13,119
he fits into Russell Westbrook, James
Harden, Robert Comden framework of this team.

1691
01:47:13,199 --> 01:47:15,479
Right Like those are two different teams. I think I think people need

1692
01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:18,199
to shift the way they think of
those teams. Uh as soon as they

1693
01:47:18,279 --> 01:47:23,680
made that Clint Capella trade, they
were way past that old era of basketball.

1694
01:47:23,720 --> 01:47:26,760
They were not. They no longer
ran pick and rolls, They no

1695
01:47:26,960 --> 01:47:32,239
longer they no longer needed heavy guard
play because they had enough guard play.

1696
01:47:32,720 --> 01:47:36,680
And I think if you look at
what the Rockets want in their roster next

1697
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:40,520
season, I think they would like
more sides than what Austin Rivers giving them.

1698
01:47:41,439 --> 01:47:44,520
He was also someone who struggled in
Houston's packed guard rotation. So I

1699
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:46,119
think they keep I think I think
they keep two of those guys. I

1700
01:47:46,159 --> 01:47:48,199
don't know. I don't know wish
too at the moment, but that's my

1701
01:47:48,319 --> 01:47:53,600
theory. I guess if you move
Eric Gordon Austin, Rivers becomes more of

1702
01:47:53,760 --> 01:47:56,520
just like a no brainer fit there. But there's still the he would be

1703
01:47:56,600 --> 01:47:58,640
the one that I would be worried
about cost the most. I mean,

1704
01:47:58,720 --> 01:48:02,279
look, they could just keep guarantee
Ben Maclamore's two point three million dollars salary,

1705
01:48:02,319 --> 01:48:05,399
and so maybe that's just the move
they make because that's still relatively cheap

1706
01:48:05,439 --> 01:48:09,199
and like not unmovable. If you
need to go that rout, if you're

1707
01:48:09,239 --> 01:48:12,279
hard up for roster spots, obviously, then that's something to consider. But

1708
01:48:12,439 --> 01:48:15,960
Rivers with the player option, he
did shoot over thirty six percent on pull

1709
01:48:15,079 --> 01:48:18,000
up threes this year, Like I
could see ah, I don't see him

1710
01:48:18,000 --> 01:48:20,960
getting like a huge money deal,
but if you have to tap into your

1711
01:48:21,479 --> 01:48:25,159
mid level exception to keep him,
I don't necessarily know if that's going to

1712
01:48:25,319 --> 01:48:28,000
interest the Rockets at all. And
there could be a team like Philly I

1713
01:48:28,039 --> 01:48:31,439
think could really just use him because
he's someone who's okay doing anything off the

1714
01:48:31,520 --> 01:48:36,520
dribble in the half court. It
might be a mutual parting because yeah,

1715
01:48:36,840 --> 01:48:41,880
you're right, more teams can use
Austin Rivers and the Rockets can use him,

1716
01:48:41,920 --> 01:48:44,840
right, especially if they bring Eric
Gordon back, because then you're talking

1717
01:48:44,880 --> 01:48:48,479
about bringing back that packed guard rotation
where Austin Rivers just gets lost in the

1718
01:48:48,520 --> 01:48:54,479
weeds a little bit. And I
think Ben McLamore is definitely the kind of

1719
01:48:54,520 --> 01:48:58,119
player for that for that option.
I mean, it's it's so dirt cheap

1720
01:48:58,359 --> 01:49:00,239
that it almost doesn't matter if you
can't don't you can't play him in certain

1721
01:49:00,279 --> 01:49:03,600
matchups, Like it's just why not, Like it's just a roster spot at

1722
01:49:03,640 --> 01:49:09,800
that point, and it's not like
you know you're gonna you're finding like eight

1723
01:49:09,880 --> 01:49:13,520
players this offseason. You can't you
can't fit in back Ben McLamore to your

1724
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:15,319
framework. So I think it makes
sense to bring him back. And Jeff

1725
01:49:15,359 --> 01:49:20,199
Green, I think if teams don't
overpay him, I think I think he's

1726
01:49:20,279 --> 01:49:26,279
a fine player to bring back for
a cheap deal. He's not like he's

1727
01:49:26,439 --> 01:49:29,159
I'd probably just say veterans minimum,
Like I'm not even good. I'm not

1728
01:49:29,239 --> 01:49:32,119
even using like yeah, like if
they can fidelap like, that's too much

1729
01:49:32,199 --> 01:49:36,880
money for me. So, since
we already talked about what was the most

1730
01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:41,680
undercovered aspect of this team, is
there anything that I left out you want

1731
01:49:41,720 --> 01:49:44,079
to talk about? We really it's
funny we didn't touch on my card and

1732
01:49:44,159 --> 01:49:46,479
Westbrook that much because I just feel
like it should just be known that they'll

1733
01:49:46,479 --> 01:49:50,159
still be there. I guess.
I guess my own question would be that

1734
01:49:50,239 --> 01:49:55,199
without the Russell Westbrook trade has been
relitigated to no end? Do you think

1735
01:49:55,279 --> 01:50:00,279
Houston still gets to this uh microball
model if they ever make that deal,

1736
01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:03,720
Like, do they get to the
point where they feel like moving Clint Cappela

1737
01:50:03,880 --> 01:50:06,880
is in the sessam and go down
this route? And have you given any

1738
01:50:06,920 --> 01:50:11,079
thoughts too? Would they have looked
a lot better if Chris Paul is the

1739
01:50:11,119 --> 01:50:15,439
point guard in this situation instead of
Russell Westbrook. Yeah, what a great

1740
01:50:15,520 --> 01:50:18,760
question. So I don't know if
they still choose to go this role.

1741
01:50:18,840 --> 01:50:23,039
I suspect that they bring Clint Cappela
back, right, Like, I think

1742
01:50:23,359 --> 01:50:26,199
they made this trade with Russell Westbrook
in mine. In fact, that was

1743
01:50:26,760 --> 01:50:30,039
their main talking points after they made
the trade right, they talked about having

1744
01:50:30,359 --> 01:50:34,039
a space floor on Westbrook, and
I think I think if they had Chris

1745
01:50:34,159 --> 01:50:38,479
Paul, they probably play more more
traditional and have Clint Cappella back, and

1746
01:50:38,560 --> 01:50:42,239
they're they're better at playing more traditional
if they if they have Chris Paul,

1747
01:50:42,359 --> 01:50:45,439
right, I think Westbrook forces them
to think out of the box. Westbrook

1748
01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:49,039
force's most teams to think out of
the box. He's just such a weird

1749
01:50:49,159 --> 01:50:55,039
and different player. Yeah. I
mean, it's definitely one of those things

1750
01:50:55,119 --> 01:51:00,520
where I think, if you're a
Rockets fan, you need to stop relitigating

1751
01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:03,079
that trade because it's unhealthy. Like
it's it happened, It's it's over,

1752
01:51:03,399 --> 01:51:06,800
Like Westbrook's on your team. He's
going to be there for the next three

1753
01:51:06,880 --> 01:51:11,720
years. I don't see any point
like there's nothing material that can come out

1754
01:51:11,760 --> 01:51:15,439
of just thinking about what could be
with Chris Paul. Like that's done.

1755
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:18,720
Yeah, Like listen, Like the
time to talk about that trade was when

1756
01:51:18,760 --> 01:51:23,600
it happened. Now, like like
what are you gonna do like like Chris

1757
01:51:23,680 --> 01:51:27,000
Paul, Yeah, Like he's he's
a better player, for sure. I

1758
01:51:27,119 --> 01:51:29,399
thought that at the time they made
the trade, and I still think that

1759
01:51:29,520 --> 01:51:32,119
now that was the That's the problem
with the relitigations is like, this wasn't

1760
01:51:32,239 --> 01:51:35,399
something that was up in the air
at the moment. I think at the

1761
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:43,199
time, the consensus was that this
was not predominantly a basketball driven move.

1762
01:51:44,399 --> 01:51:47,600
Yeah, for sure. I think
if you look at the way their playoffs

1763
01:51:47,760 --> 01:51:54,119
ended in twenty nineteen, there was
definitely something that happened. And you know,

1764
01:51:54,239 --> 01:51:59,800
nobody's been able to properly ascertain what
exactly happened between Chris Paul and James,

1765
01:52:00,239 --> 01:52:02,800
but they were cool up until Game
six of that Warrior series, and

1766
01:52:02,840 --> 01:52:06,760
then during Game six and then afterwards
in the locker room, there's something happened,

1767
01:52:06,920 --> 01:52:12,199
some sort of verbal arc altercation between
the two players, and then they

1768
01:52:12,319 --> 01:52:17,319
came out in separate press conferences,
right, So you can definitely make the

1769
01:52:17,399 --> 01:52:21,880
logical conclusion that that was not a
basketball decision. That was definitely something that

1770
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:27,319
they made knowing that these two players
can't be together for the next season.

1771
01:52:27,640 --> 01:52:31,920
So I think all that the five
stages of teaming with Chris Paul and Hard

1772
01:52:32,000 --> 01:52:35,079
just went through it a little bit
more quickly than everybody else where. It

1773
01:52:35,119 --> 01:52:39,119
feels like he grades on his own
teammates. And someone pointed this out that

1774
01:52:39,199 --> 01:52:42,760
maybe this was the best way for
him to leave Oklahoma City after one year

1775
01:52:42,840 --> 01:52:45,359
because we're just all assuming he gets
traded, is that there's still the good

1776
01:52:45,439 --> 01:52:47,600
vibes and like the young players still
like him, because the next couple of

1777
01:52:47,640 --> 01:52:53,319
stages just include like them getting angry
at him because he's too grading. Yeah,

1778
01:52:53,359 --> 01:52:56,199
so I have a question, So
where does Chris Paul go from here?

1779
01:52:56,279 --> 01:52:59,600
Right like? Because I think the
logical conclusion is he goes to a

1780
01:52:59,680 --> 01:53:02,479
content ender like like the Bucks,
right, But I don't know if the

1781
01:53:02,560 --> 01:53:05,960
Bucks necessarily want to do that,
right Like, So I think they're you

1782
01:53:06,039 --> 01:53:09,800
know, like as bad as they
looked in the playoffs in the second round,

1783
01:53:09,880 --> 01:53:13,479
right Like, I think they're still
better off with Chris Middleton moving forward

1784
01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:17,479
for the long term. But you
still look at what they're lacking in their

1785
01:53:17,520 --> 01:53:20,960
guard rotation, like they really miss
Malcolm Brockden, right like the Bucks,

1786
01:53:21,760 --> 01:53:30,720
Like they completely missed the ship with
with Brockden Bletsoe calculation. But again,

1787
01:53:30,279 --> 01:53:33,399
very much, you can't relitigate this
if you're if you're a Bucks fan,

1788
01:53:33,439 --> 01:53:36,720
you can this happened, it's over, Like you don't have Malcolm Brockden anymore.

1789
01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:40,399
Eric letzos on your basketball team.
So what do you do moving forward?

1790
01:53:40,479 --> 01:53:44,159
You try and and and go for
a player like Chris Pau Because Chris

1791
01:53:44,239 --> 01:53:46,159
Paul, I still think has at
least one or two more good years left

1792
01:53:46,239 --> 01:53:51,880
in him, and his contract expires
after twenty twenty two or twenty twenty one.

1793
01:53:53,000 --> 01:53:56,560
What does it When does this contract
expire twenty twenty two? Chris Paul's

1794
01:53:56,880 --> 01:54:00,399
yeah, heyer option for the twenty
one twenty two season, and so it

1795
01:54:00,479 --> 01:54:02,800
expires in twenty two. He's not
going to turn down. I think it's

1796
01:54:02,840 --> 01:54:05,640
like, what is it, forty
eight million dollars, It's it's something that's

1797
01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:09,720
absolutely nuts. It is forty four
point two million. He's not turning that

1798
01:54:09,800 --> 01:54:13,359
money down. So it's not crazy
to have him for a two year rental,

1799
01:54:13,560 --> 01:54:15,279
right, if you're not giving up
too much, like Chris Paul is

1800
01:54:15,359 --> 01:54:20,199
better for your team for the next
two years, and you can, you

1801
01:54:20,279 --> 01:54:24,000
know, you can shed his contract
down for after those two years and then

1802
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:26,840
you can figure out what you want
to do from there. But you know,

1803
01:54:26,920 --> 01:54:29,560
I don't I don't know, Like, did you think the Bucks explore

1804
01:54:29,600 --> 01:54:31,159
that kind of a rental or do
you think do you think there's another team

1805
01:54:31,199 --> 01:54:34,840
out there that would really suit Chris
Paul there. I think there are actually

1806
01:54:34,840 --> 01:54:36,960
plenty of teams that could probably talk
to themselves into it. I don't know

1807
01:54:38,000 --> 01:54:41,720
if the Bucks will because they're kind
of in the like Tillman for It's for

1808
01:54:41,800 --> 01:54:44,680
Gas situation where it's like they said
they've paid the tax, but like,

1809
01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:47,800
let's let's see it first. And
there was a report from the Athletic that

1810
01:54:48,119 --> 01:54:50,439
they're not interested in Paul, and
I get the price point. What I

1811
01:54:50,479 --> 01:54:55,039
think people are under selling here for
the Bucks is that. And I would

1812
01:54:55,079 --> 01:54:58,199
even have cause for pause with this. Everyone thinks it's so easy just to

1813
01:54:58,279 --> 01:55:01,800
match the salaries for Chris Paul,
Maake Milwaukee isn't gonna want to give up

1814
01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:05,680
bletso Lopez and George Hill in that
deal. That's three major rotation players for

1815
01:55:05,760 --> 01:55:09,039
one. I don't care if Chris
Paul's in his prime. That's a lot

1816
01:55:09,079 --> 01:55:12,680
to give up. And so the
permutations that work best for them is built

1817
01:55:12,680 --> 01:55:15,039
around Eric Bletsoe and then like the
poop poo platter of salary filler, where

1818
01:55:15,039 --> 01:55:19,720
you have Erson Elisova, Robin Lopez, DJ Wilson, you're probably willing and

1819
01:55:19,800 --> 01:55:24,000
have to give up Dante DiVincenzo in
that scenario, and the key there to

1820
01:55:24,079 --> 01:55:27,159
me would be, well, why
would the thunder want that trade? It's

1821
01:55:27,239 --> 01:55:30,600
can you find a third party to
take on Eric bletso like maybe Atlanta would

1822
01:55:30,640 --> 01:55:33,600
take him into their cap space or
something, because then you're offering a ton

1823
01:55:33,680 --> 01:55:38,279
more immediate savings to Oklahoma City,
And that's the route you go if they

1824
01:55:38,319 --> 01:55:41,600
can't do something like that, Like
if that's gonna cost you, I'm not

1825
01:55:41,640 --> 01:55:44,359
saying Chris Paul isn't worth it in
a vacuum, but like Brook, Lopez

1826
01:55:44,439 --> 01:55:47,199
was all defense this year. George
Hill led the NBA essentially in three point

1827
01:55:47,279 --> 01:55:50,600
shooting percentage. Like, those are
two huge pieces to leave, and they're

1828
01:55:50,600 --> 01:55:55,239
also two of the Bucks's most important
shooters. Lopez didn't shoot it too well

1829
01:55:55,279 --> 01:55:57,960
for most the regular season, but
his volume matters, and so to remove

1830
01:55:58,039 --> 01:56:00,680
them from the rotation, I know
center value is kind of easier to approximate

1831
01:56:01,560 --> 01:56:05,520
on the free agent market, but
I think that you need to go for

1832
01:56:05,560 --> 01:56:08,479
the Bucks. They would need to
be able to get Chris Paul in that

1833
01:56:08,600 --> 01:56:12,720
type of scenario where they're only giving
up Bledsoe as opposed to Lopez, Hill

1834
01:56:13,239 --> 01:56:15,399
and Bledsoe. And look, I
don't know if teams, it's the money

1835
01:56:15,439 --> 01:56:18,399
that's going to concern teams the most. Chris Paul's two years and eighty five

1836
01:56:18,439 --> 01:56:23,840
point six million left on his deal. We're dealing in a you know,

1837
01:56:24,640 --> 01:56:27,720
a mid pandemic where all was about
say post pandemic world, but like where

1838
01:56:27,760 --> 01:56:30,079
we haven't had gate revenue for these
teams and forever there probably won't be Gate

1839
01:56:30,119 --> 01:56:33,359
revenue for most, if not all, of next season. Who's willing to

1840
01:56:33,680 --> 01:56:36,880
bite that bullet because I think Chris
Paul is worth it, and like you

1841
01:56:36,920 --> 01:56:41,840
know, you look at other teams. Miami probably doesn't come into play after

1842
01:56:41,960 --> 01:56:45,880
this season, unless again they know
that Janniss is outside the realm of possibility,

1843
01:56:45,880 --> 01:56:49,000
and even then they might just pivot
to an Oladipo type of situation.

1844
01:56:49,239 --> 01:56:54,439
I think, Look, people have
mentioned the Clippers might be a worthy if

1845
01:56:54,479 --> 01:56:58,439
they're willing to go. I think
it's Williams, Beverly, zoobots and McGruder

1846
01:56:58,920 --> 01:57:00,880
will get you Chris Paul back.
That's a team that I think should actually

1847
01:57:01,199 --> 01:57:05,880
consider something like that. We know
that's do they have to trade fall?

1848
01:57:06,079 --> 01:57:09,560
I'm sorry, what was that?
What picks do they have to trade for

1849
01:57:09,640 --> 01:57:12,239
Paul. I don't you would have
probably have to. They don't have picks

1850
01:57:12,319 --> 01:57:15,560
until twenty and twenty eight, and
so you have you you might have to

1851
01:57:15,560 --> 01:57:17,720
look at Landry Shammit, or you're
just hoping that you know, Oklahoma City

1852
01:57:17,800 --> 01:57:21,119
really likes like Zubots or Beverley.
You're probably getting a third team involved in

1853
01:57:21,600 --> 01:57:26,199
that scenario. I think the two
teams that arguably stand out the most though,

1854
01:57:26,239 --> 01:57:30,079
would be Philly and then Phoenix.
With Philly, it's can you sweeten

1855
01:57:30,159 --> 01:57:32,640
up a package that's going to include
I would guess Al Horford, but it

1856
01:57:32,720 --> 01:57:36,159
could be Tobias Harris. I'd think
that it's easier to move Horford just because

1857
01:57:36,199 --> 01:57:39,760
of the length of his deal,
But you know, can you sweeten that

1858
01:57:39,840 --> 01:57:42,359
up enough? And is it even
worth it for Chris Paul. I think

1859
01:57:42,399 --> 01:57:45,199
Phoenix provides the easiest fit. I
don't know if they'll go that route,

1860
01:57:45,239 --> 01:57:49,199
but you know, Ricky Rubio and
Kelly Ubrey and then I would give up

1861
01:57:49,279 --> 01:57:53,760
number ten for Chris Paul, like
I would absolutely do that if I was

1862
01:57:53,800 --> 01:57:57,279
them. Maybe you can get away
with just including Tied Jerome in there,

1863
01:57:57,359 --> 01:58:00,119
even if you had to do Tied
Jerome and number ten that's on that I

1864
01:58:00,159 --> 01:58:01,319
would consider, because Chris Paul is
that good, like you said, and

1865
01:58:01,399 --> 01:58:05,680
even if it's just a season of
a top fifteen player, that is ridiculously

1866
01:58:05,800 --> 01:58:09,880
hard to come by. And so
I do think there should be plenty of

1867
01:58:09,960 --> 01:58:12,640
teams willing to trade for him,
and the Bucks should be a top that

1868
01:58:12,800 --> 01:58:15,960
list. I just I think the
money is what's going to give teams pause,

1869
01:58:15,039 --> 01:58:18,000
and it's you know, I'll spend
billionaires money all day. I don't

1870
01:58:18,039 --> 01:58:21,720
care. That just wouldn't give me
reticence his price point, and it just

1871
01:58:21,800 --> 01:58:26,399
absolutely wouldn't. Yeah, I guess
the question you have to ask yourself if

1872
01:58:26,399 --> 01:58:30,399
you're Milwaukee is how quickly can you
replace brook Lope as value? Right?

1873
01:58:30,760 --> 01:58:34,039
I think you know you're already replacing
George Hill's value and that you're getting Chris

1874
01:58:34,119 --> 01:58:38,880
Paul, Right, you're getting someone
who George Hill and Bledsoe. I think

1875
01:58:38,920 --> 01:58:42,680
Chris Paul is more value than both
those two players combine. The tricky part

1876
01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:45,680
is how do you replace brook Lope
as value? And you know, another

1877
01:58:45,760 --> 01:58:49,359
question you have to ask yourself if
your Milwaukee is like how much how much

1878
01:58:49,479 --> 01:58:54,720
value does does brook Lopez provide you? In a postseason setting as compared to

1879
01:58:54,720 --> 01:58:57,800
your regular season setting, right,
because I think you're starting to find this

1880
01:58:57,920 --> 01:59:01,000
out in the playoffs, like switch
your teams seem to fare better in the

1881
01:59:01,039 --> 01:59:04,840
playoffs and Miami's you know, an
a one example of this, right like,

1882
01:59:05,039 --> 01:59:10,039
and you know draw, It's not
to say drop back defenses can't succeed.

1883
01:59:10,119 --> 01:59:12,279
I mean look at the Lakers,
right Like, it's not to say

1884
01:59:12,760 --> 01:59:17,479
those those type of defenses aren't effective, but I think Brook Lopez isn't as

1885
01:59:17,560 --> 01:59:20,800
valuable as as like the kind of
center you would like to have in the

1886
01:59:20,840 --> 01:59:25,239
postseason. So I don't know,
like that that's a tricky question if you're

1887
01:59:25,279 --> 01:59:29,319
Milwaukee. The Sixers are definitely interesting. I think they really miss Jimmy Butler.

1888
01:59:29,680 --> 01:59:32,199
Uh, I mean in the playoffs, like they need someone who just

1889
01:59:32,319 --> 01:59:38,760
takes control of the offense, especially
in fourth quarter situations. Yeah, that's

1890
01:59:39,239 --> 01:59:43,159
that that that makes a lot of
sense of the question is like how much

1891
01:59:43,199 --> 01:59:45,079
are you willing to give up?
Obviously, who are you willing to give

1892
01:59:45,159 --> 01:59:49,399
up? Phoenix is definitely interesting too, because you know pair and Chris Paul

1893
01:59:49,479 --> 01:59:53,800
next to Devin Booker. It just
makes a ton of basketball sense, Even

1894
01:59:53,840 --> 01:59:58,479
if that's a temporary fit like that
gets you, you know, probably to

1895
01:59:58,560 --> 02:00:01,239
the playoffs next year, right,
And my thinking here was like, look,

1896
02:00:01,319 --> 02:00:04,079
the eight no bubble vibes, Like
maybe there was a real but you're

1897
02:00:04,079 --> 02:00:08,520
like in this weird position where you're
not a guaranteed playoff team, and like

1898
02:00:08,640 --> 02:00:13,319
any sort of substantial move that eats
into your younger core like that could end

1899
02:00:13,399 --> 02:00:15,760
up setting you back. And so
if Chris Paul is someone that you can

1900
02:00:15,840 --> 02:00:17,359
get where you don't, we know
Booker is not going to be involved.

1901
02:00:17,399 --> 02:00:20,279
But like, if you're making a
big swing, theoretically you need to make

1902
02:00:20,399 --> 02:00:25,680
an eight and a Kale Bridges even
a Cameron Johnson available. And if you're

1903
02:00:25,680 --> 02:00:29,319
able to get Chris Paul without including
those three players, I think that's what

1904
02:00:29,399 --> 02:00:31,880
makes that so appealing to me,
is that you're getting that impact without really

1905
02:00:32,000 --> 02:00:36,800
mortgaging your future. Because how important
is Ricky Rubio and Kelly Bridge junior to

1906
02:00:36,800 --> 02:00:40,000
your future? You can argue the
number ten pick is you know, that's

1907
02:00:40,000 --> 02:00:43,279
something to give up, Like this
year's draft class, you're probably not going

1908
02:00:43,319 --> 02:00:46,399
to get more than a complimentary player
there anyway, And so I think at

1909
02:00:46,439 --> 02:00:49,840
this point it's it's fair to consolidate
but you need to do it within reason

1910
02:00:49,920 --> 02:00:53,920
because you don't know if you're that
sure fire playoff team. I think Chris

1911
02:00:54,000 --> 02:00:57,439
Paul gets you there. And again, aside from the actual financial cost,

1912
02:00:57,800 --> 02:01:01,640
I just don't think there's this huge
opportunity cost when you're looking at like the

1913
02:01:01,880 --> 02:01:05,319
the asset equity you'd give up in
a hypothetical Chris Paul trade. Now,

1914
02:01:05,319 --> 02:01:09,279
if you're just in love with Ricky
Rubio and Kelly Erbridge junior, it's different.

1915
02:01:09,319 --> 02:01:12,439
But Chris Paul's way better than Ricky
Rubio. And I think that Ubrey

1916
02:01:12,960 --> 02:01:15,239
has proved pretty good. He's good, but he's proved he proved replaceable to

1917
02:01:15,279 --> 02:01:18,479
me because you put Cameron Johnson in
that starting lineup and you hummed and then

1918
02:01:18,560 --> 02:01:21,680
Dario Sarich off the bench as more
of a shot creator. Just makes too

1919
02:01:21,760 --> 02:01:25,520
much sense, and so that kind
of leaves I won't say Ubrey and Lurch

1920
02:01:25,560 --> 02:01:28,319
he could still help this team,
but I don't think he's, you know,

1921
02:01:28,439 --> 02:01:30,000
irreplaceable, but by any means.
And look, you have to worry

1922
02:01:30,000 --> 02:01:32,560
about paying him in twenty twenty one
anyway, when he's going to be a

1923
02:01:32,600 --> 02:01:35,720
free agent. No, you're right, and you know this, This draft

1924
02:01:35,800 --> 02:01:39,319
is pretty weak too, so that
that ten pick is not going to be

1925
02:01:39,359 --> 02:01:43,640
pretty valuable for you. And I
think Chris Paul's value for the next two

1926
02:01:43,720 --> 02:01:46,039
years as far as growing with that
young core, I mean, I think

1927
02:01:46,520 --> 02:01:49,840
that's immensely valuable, especially for a
player that Devin book for, like Devin

1928
02:01:49,880 --> 02:01:54,880
Booker who hasn't tasted the playoffs yet. Having a player like Chris Paul buyer

1929
02:01:54,920 --> 02:01:58,640
side who's not only tasted it,
thrived in that kind of a situation is

1930
02:01:58,800 --> 02:02:01,079
really really healthy for you moving forward, even if you only have for two

1931
02:02:01,159 --> 02:02:04,199
years. I think it's the kind
of buy that makes a lot of sense.

1932
02:02:04,239 --> 02:02:09,119
It's kind of like, in a
different way, it's kind of like

1933
02:02:09,239 --> 02:02:15,600
the Jazz buying in on Joe Johnson
for right, Like it's obviously two different

1934
02:02:15,600 --> 02:02:17,840
situations, but it's like it's very
much like that, Like having that kind

1935
02:02:17,880 --> 02:02:21,760
of a closure in your in your
midst as you try to make your first

1936
02:02:21,800 --> 02:02:26,079
playoff appearance makes a lot of sense. Yeah, look, hey, look

1937
02:02:26,119 --> 02:02:29,359
you mentioned the Jazz. I think
the Mike Conley plus sweeteners for Chris Paul

1938
02:02:29,359 --> 02:02:31,520
trade is staring him, staring him
right in the face. Two One,

1939
02:02:31,760 --> 02:02:35,399
it's hysterical. How all my even
team oriented podcasts that this is at least

1940
02:02:35,399 --> 02:02:39,560
ten gentily related to Chris Paul because
it's it's the Rockets, but everything just

1941
02:02:39,640 --> 02:02:42,760
comes back to a Chris Paul trade
at this point. I absolutely love it.

1942
02:02:42,840 --> 02:02:45,159
But Salmon, I really thank you
for giving me so much of your

1943
02:02:45,600 --> 02:02:49,039
of your time. This was a
great discussion. The Rockets are clearly one

1944
02:02:49,079 --> 02:02:53,560
of the more fascinating teams to watch
during the off season, and just giving

1945
02:02:53,640 --> 02:02:57,079
that Darryl Morris in charge, even
though they seem so inflexible on their books,

1946
02:02:57,159 --> 02:03:00,560
you almost have to prepare yourself for
just anything happening, Like, no,

1947
02:03:00,640 --> 02:03:02,000
they're not going to acquire another star, but it just feels like,

1948
02:03:02,560 --> 02:03:05,600
look we saw Chris Paul flip for
Washall Westbrook last year, like anything is

1949
02:03:05,640 --> 02:03:09,600
possible with this team. So I
look forward to seeing what they do over

1950
02:03:09,680 --> 02:03:13,319
the offseason. And if you guys
are not following Salmon on Twitter, please

1951
02:03:13,479 --> 02:03:16,680
remedy that immediately. He can be
found at Salmon Ali NBA. That's at

1952
02:03:16,920 --> 02:03:24,600
SA L M n A l I
NBA does great work, fantastic podcaster,

1953
02:03:25,479 --> 02:03:29,159
does great covers for the Rockets over
at ESPN ninety seven point five and Broken

1954
02:03:29,279 --> 02:03:31,199
Record Style. Thanks again, so
much for coming on, Sam and I

1955
02:03:31,279 --> 02:03:41,039
really enjoyed this talk. For sure, I did too. Man for the

1956
02:03:41,119 --> 02:03:45,880
one standing Guard, for the Eaglelide, for the Knights in Shining Armor,

1957
02:03:45,359 --> 02:03:50,199
and for all those who support them. We are Granger, your experienced safety

1958
02:03:50,239 --> 02:03:56,840
partner offering supplies and solutions for every
industry committed to helping keep your facilities safe

1959
02:03:57,159 --> 02:04:00,520
and your people safer. Call click
Gray dot com, slash safety, or

1960
02:04:00,600 --> 02:04:04,119
just stop eye Granger for the ones
who get it done.