Bengals, Vikings, backup quarterbacks, fringe playoff teams. Let's get into it.
You are Locked On Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast, part of
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fans, It's time for another crossover here on the Locked On podcast. Ever,
how Jake, let's go from Locked On Bengals. He's Luke Brown from
Locked On Vikings for this week's Prize Picks crossover Vikings Bengals. Like I mentioned,
backup quarterbacks, fringe playoff teams. We're gonna get into the biggest stories,
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let's get into some big stories back up quarterbacks, changing quarterbacks and Minnesota.
I'll let you start. What's a big story for the Minnesota Vikings. Yeah,
so, Hi, Cincinnati. Things are a lot different than when we
looked at this matchup two months ago and since we met last year too.
It's dark. The Vikings are starting Nick Mullins, and that's the fourth starting
quarterback the Vikings have had this year. They had Kirk Cousins get hurt in
Week eight, Jaren Hall started the next game, got concussed, immediately lost
his job to Joshua Dobbs, who just lost his job to Mullins last week.
And now officially they're moving forward with Mullins. So we don't really know
a lot about Mullen. We haven't seen him play for the Vikings a lot.
I mean we've we've seen a lot of Mullins over over you know,
in San Francisco and Vegas and stuff, but he's fairly new to us as
Vikings fans. He's a little bit more stable. I think if you got
Dobbs, I'd be telling you a man like you can really get this guy
to mess up and throw stupid interceptions, or he'll he'll you know, be
in the grasp of a sack and we'll just wing the ball out andet.
He's he threw two interceptions to nose tackles in his brief stint as a Viking,
Like he'll do that kind of stuff. Nick Mullens has some of that.
Like he's not the safest guy. This is not like I've been saying.
You know, we had Sean Mannion as a backup for a few years.
This isn't Sean Mannion where nothing will happen. Uh, He'll still get
outside the pocket if he can, if he if there's an opportunity to and
and maybe scramble. He's fast ish, but not that fast. But what's
important is that the rhythm is proper with him. He's on time, he's
in, he's delivering the ball where it is supposed to be. Not a
crazy arm, not a lot of talent as compared to guys that are on
purpose starters in this league. You know, he's not this dude just dripping
with these crazy deep balls or something like that. But like he can throw
a corner route, like he can hit that throw And ideally we live in
a world where this game came down to something else and he just played a
little bit of point guard. Are you expecting then this like heavy play action
screen game, running game kind of approach from the Vikings, because that's what
the Bengals have seen as a change of pace for their offense with Jake Browning.
Interesting, No, I don't think so. Mullins has been trained in
the kirk Cousins offense, so he'll do what kirk Cousins did, which there's
some of the movement stuff and play action stuff, but like they are Kevin
O'Connell as opposed to the Koubias who were here, or even like McVeigh and
Shanahan themselves, Zach Taylor a lot more interested in the dropback game, just
straight dropbacks, you know, five routes, five wide, attacking you know,
middlefield safeties and attacking half safeties and trying to sort of whiteboard his way
through those games with just drop back stuff rather than the rollouts. They're kind
of our version of quick game where instead of running like slat flat, will
run a little keeper slide and check it down to the tight end for three
yards. And that's kind of our like, you know, easy, get
into rhythm kind of play. But it very much serves only that purpose.
They don't really use it so much as a shot play anymore because defenses are
just too keyed into that. Instead, their shot plays are you know,
drop back maybe play action, but not like rollout play action and you know,
go balls down the sideline or deepost to Jordan Datison, that kind of
stuff. And of course we'll talk about the return of Justin Jefferson, but
I do find that interesting and it is that's really interesting, Yeah, something
that well, I mean, just leaning on a backup to just continue to
live in the drop back world. To any watching what has happened when they
asked Jake Browning to do that in Cincinnati against Pittsburgh a few weeks ago and
it was just a disaster. And then this total transformation against Givens schematically very
different teams and the Indianapolis Colts and Jacksonville Jaguars on defense, the Bengals started
to live in this under center play action, no more empty, We're going
to run the ball arguably more, although if you look only at more neutral
gamescript situations, it's actually the same run pass split, which is on the
interesting athletic pointed out, but a lot more play action screen stuff from the
Bengals a lot less. We're going to ask to true past that kind of
pass protection, straight drop back game from them, less quick game that you
do a lot with Joe Burrow where they go empty five guys in the Burrow
wants to live. It is a lot harder. So that's why I'm surprised
to hear you say that that's how they want to live with Nick Mollins.
Yeah, because that's what Nick Mullins said. I think that's more of an
O'Connell thing. This is fascinating because these two coaches have the same dad.
They're both of the off of mcveighs staff. Yeah, and so when you
get a different backup quarterback, But that might just be a difference. I
mean, that's that's what Jake Browning did a lot at Washington too, right,
So like that's just his skill set. Mullins has been in these Shanahan
systems a lot, and he's so far shown an ability to like read these
things out and get the ball moving. I don't think he throws that well
on the run, So that might be the difference is you know, getting
him out and moving him out into the flats and moving the pocket and stuff
might not be better for him. He might be better at hit the thing
at the top of your drop and you're just not going to see like a
wow, Josh Allen kind of you know, layer it in over to like
he'll be a little bit safer with it. But right now, because the
other headline of the Vikings is that the defense is playing out of its skull,
we just kind of want like no turnovers, like just don't do anything
crazy. We'll take our you know, go score eighteen points and we'll be
fine, Like we'll kick a field goals. We'll try to win this like
back in the day when Mike Zimmer was winning games sixteen to ten. And
that might be the way that this team kind of lives down the stretch here
is by trying to really like collapse the game and lean on the defense more.
And I was talking to a mutual friend, a guy that we both
know, Mike's Antagonta yesterday about this and saying like, hey, look,
the Bengals can get to twenty in these games on the stretch against the Vikings
Steelers, not so much as Chiefs maybe, but Brown's like against these backup
quarterbacks with good defenses, getting to twenty. I think it's going to be
tough, and we'll talk about this defense because I think that's one of the
matchups and stories is incredibly intriguing to me this week from a Bengals perspective,
going from Gus Bradley to Brian Flores, you could not get more different in
terms of the style of defenses that Jake Browning at quarterback and Zach Taylor on
the offensive side of the ball going to prepare for and see this week.
But you talk about taking care of the ball. It does not appear to
be one of Nick Mullen's strengths. Just looking at the PFF day to hear
Luke for what it's worth, they've got him. The last time he played
a lot was twenty twenty, so it's been a while. But he is
a career turnover worthy play rate at four and a half percent thirty three turnover
worthy plays just two and a half percent for big time throws seven. That's
nothing. That's where we four and a half for breakfast. I'm not kidding.
Like the other two guys are so much more. Jaren Hall, who
did this a ton at BYU and Josh Dobbs who just threw four in a
game a couple of weeks. Agobout that number. Great, that's that's the
best we got, is what I'll say about that number. But turnovers have
been the story of the Vikings this whole year. They've fumbled, they've thrown
interceptions. They've had games where they turn it over three times in the first
half and have to dig themselves out of a hole. And sometimes they do,
sometimes they don't, and that's kind of where it is. But if
they can get through a game without turning the ball over, then they stand
a much better chance at success. The Bengals one of the top teams in
the NFL at turning over opposing offenses, and we'll see how that comes up
as a factor this week, because I really want to focus on these defenses.
I think that it could be a bit of a defensive struggle. Although
Bengals fans are coming in thinking, man, they've scored thirty and two straight
games, I think that that is going to be tougher this week. So
we'll talk about that Vikings defense and what I think is one of the biggest
matchups of the game, which is Flores against Taylor. Hopefully staying on the
sidelines unlike when Flores was in Miami, and we'll get into those matchups coming
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of the most fascinating matchups to me in this game is Brian Flores and that
I think you've called it's arranged, at least I've referenced to you calling it's
arranged. Probably that sounds like something I would say. I do believe that
it is deranged, yes, And the style of defense that is blitz heavy
that his disguise have where last week the Bengals picked apart August Bradley defense is
sending four and playing single high almost the entire game. That disparate approach,
that juxtaposition. I'm fascinated to see how the Bengals deal with it, because
they've been very good this year. Attacking teams would like to send their defensive
ends flying upfield in the screen game with Designer Runs talked about that a lot
on yesterday's episode of Lockdown Bengals, but we also saw Jake Browning look like
a deer in headlights against the Pittsburgh Steelers, a better defense like the Vikings,
but also stylistically very different, super different. Yeah, so, okay,
the Flores. You haven't seen anything like the Flora's defense, and you
won't for the rest of the year either. It's about sixty percent Belichick and
Pat and Ardozy Pittsburgh Panthers, which Flores got from his year with the Steelers
last year. They share a practice field, so we like watched some tape
and like took some ideas from them. But basically the question of it is,
and this is a question I always have for people in these crossovers,
what is your favorite blitz counter? What's Zach Taylor's favorite blitz counter? When
when he's got when you when you see eight guys on the line of scrimmage,
everybody's coming quarterback, do they check into something? Is there a hot
read? Is it just we're gonna call a lot of screens and hope that
we can punish that. What's the move? We've seen that answer change,
of course without Joe Burrow, But I think it isn't one thing. They
will be hot at times. They will try to call screens at the right
time at times and try to push the right button. But the other thing
that they've always got in their pocket, and this is something that I think
is fascinating hearing you ask that question. Is I'm just gonna throw it up
to Jamar Chaser T Higgins on a go ball if there's nobody back help,
that's three step drop and just peeve it. Okay, there are a few
options, I think, And the other one is that occasionally they'll go max
protect and try to pick it up, but with a backup quarterback. Or
I've been scolded for a guy who was a backup quarterback and is now starting
his third game. Uh, semantics, he's a backup. Yeah, well
he didn't. See's not on purpose, you know. Uh those answers a
little bit from when Joe Burrow is a quarterback, got it. So the
the go routes really interesting. We haven't seen that. We've seen a lot
of people trying for the screens and the quick stuff. You know, let's
just hit like a dart rpo or let's hit like you know something that's one
step in throw or three steps in throw. Slants and stuff like that.
The slants don't work as well because they changed a lot of the stuff they
were doing on the back end into like some some zone looks that would pick
off a slant right like they're dropping Yeah, windows, Yeah exactly. So
part of like a really key thing is when they are in they call their
uh max pressure formation. That look that usually only see on third downs is
their Bengal package, and the blitz rules out of that are based on how
the offensive line slides their protection. Someone drops out, someone will come,
and so you'll have kind of depending on what the offense does, determines how
many people come and blitz, and the idea is that you always have one
more than is protecting. So if you do want to do max protect,
we're sending eight people if you have seven blockers, right, or if you
have eight blockers, we're sending nine for that. Like that's going to be
how those things work. And then people will drop out based on the protection
slide so that those like quick windows are still taken. And then you'll have
corners playing really far off eyes on the quarterback one two, I snapped to
the receiver and then you're probably breaking on something because usually guys will throw like
little hitches against that, so it's one two break or one two eyes to
the receiver and then you play Manda Man from there. But what could be
interesting is if Jake Browning wants to just take that under center three steps,
row something up to Jamar Chase, and you're attacking a matchup that is really
interesting and probably one of the biggest ones, which is Jamar Chase versus I
would guess Byron Murphy, but they might play sides and let Jamar Chase go
up against a Caleb Evans who's a bigger corner and has been playing lights out
by the way, That would be an interesting matchup to test, but it's
dangerous because if you check into that, if Jake Browning says, oh,
they're coming, I'm throwing this go ball pre snap, it might be a
max cover look where we only rush three and now you've got safeties lurking over
the top that are gonna pick the heck out of that thing. So you
have to be really really careful about how you do that. Nobody has really
figured out a good consistent answer to the Flores defense yet now that it has
really hit its stride and they've kind of worked out the kinks over the first
half of the season. But I kind of said on my show yesterday,
Zach Taylor's turned to try to figure this out. Now he's a pretty good
offensive mind. And then Ben Johnson gets a couple of cracks and Matt Lafleur
gets a crack. So somebody, somebody's going to figure something out here and
we'll see what can consistently work. I do think that it is a challenge
just because the answers they've had the last couple of weeks, maybe they aren't
there the same way. How are they the vikings against you know, those
designer runs like crack, toss, wam trap, those sorts of things.
All of that stuff gets so much easier because of the fronts that they use
that they will do, Like I wonder what front they'll live in, because
usually they'll base out of either four three or three four and then they'll kind
of adjust from there and it depends. It's a game plan thing. So
against those I'm going to guess that they would want even spacing, but that's
super a guess. And then they'll usually either shift into like tilt fronts that
are like six' one six guys on the line of scrimmage, or they'll
have a five man front and then bring down another person is like an overhang
defender that's a six person, So they want six on the line of scrimmage.
Which makes it a lot much we've seen against the McVeigh tree running attacks.
So going back to like the Patriots a few years ago, right right,
that's the Belichick part. That's the stuff that Flora still has from his
days in New England, and it breaks up all those double teams in like
zone and stuff like that, but against those kind of designed tricky trapwham kind
of family of things. It also puts guys in every gap, and it
means it makes it really hard to protect the puller. Like if your guard
pulls to either do trap or power or whatever it is, it's really hard
for that tackle to or that center whoever it is, to collapse that gap
because there is somebody in every single gap. So like he's got his own
thing to do and now he's pinned down by somebody else. Just having that
those extra guys on the line of scrimmage helps quite a bit. And the
disadvantage is that you throw over the top of it a ton, but it's
really hard to do that if we're also sending seven all the time. Yeah,
I think that that is is the chess game, and what the Bengals
will have to figure out is the pre snap postnap diagnosis or just putting Jake
Browning in a position where he has answers something with Joe Burrow that I feel
more confident about, right because he's so good at processing post snap and so
good at seeing the entire field and figuring out where he needs to go and
win at a very very high rate of efficiency and accuracy. And then with
Jake Browning, we haven't seen him have to make those diagnoses nearly as often.
So that's why we just spent eight minutes talking about that particular schematic chess
match, because I think that that is such a crux of this game.
I also do want to talk about justin Jefferson's return and some of the players
in this game as well. I've in Paid Junior, maybe one that you
didn't expect me to want to bring up, but a guy that a lot
of Bengals fans know in are oh yes, sure because of this tea if
it's a player of the week pa or is that the game of his life?
Well, and two weeks removed from Jake Browning being the AFC Offensive Player
of the Week, so we got some undrafted oh yeah, award winners in
this Tommy DeVito was NFC Offensive Player of the Week this week too. Really,
yeah, we need to enjoy this NFL season. Oh, we'll continue
with a couple more comments on some of the key players and matchups in this
game before we wrap up this week's crossover coming up next. Today's episode of
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before we get into one needs to go right for when and if you
like the two predictions, we can get your predictions. We got to talk
about my biggest matchup for an entire segment, so I just wanted to open
the floor up to you to sharing up any other matchups or players that you're
highlighting are interested in talking about this week. So I'm really excited to see
what the Vikings can do with Jefferson. Haven't really seen Jefferson since he got
hurt in Week five against the Chiefs. We saw him for less than a
quarter against the Raiders and then he got hurt again. That did knock him
out of the game, but he's already announced that it's not going to knock
him out for anymore. He's going to play through it. He got an
internal bruise in that game and had to go to the hospital to get that
checked out, so kind of gnarly, but I guess it heals up pretty
quick, so he's good to go. But then my question is what is
the Bengals move for superstar got to know where he is at all times kind
of receivers. Yeah, that will be the question this week. The Bengals
once again without Cam Taylor Brett who's on injured reserve, so it'll be a
mix of Genobe Aboose of DJ Turner there. I don't think there will be
a shadow necessarily for those situations when they're not bracketing or clouding justin Jefferson something.
We do that a lot, though I imagine there will be a lot
of that they haven't. I'm trying to make sure I'm not going to put
my foot in my mouth that they have haven't played a ton of star receivers
this year they did see Stefan Diggs and the Buffalo Bills, but I feel
like they haven't seen that superstar wide receiver a ton this year. And the
defense has been very prone to explosive place And so that's where Justin Jefferson and
even Jordan Addison, even TJ. Howkinson, where they've had issues with tight
ends. For sure, at times like those guys are a little bit intimidating.
But then I look at the Vikings offensive line and outside of Christian Derisa,
especially if O'Neil doesn't play, I think that there's some things there that
should just get Nick Mullen's uncomfortable office spot. That's how you want to try
to neutralize these weapons that are a little bit scarier that you have to scheme
up a solution for. If you're doing a rumo, who's gonna throw a
lot at you? He's not gonna be yeah, yeah, he likes his
his like exotic six man rushes. Right. You'll see well, I mean
when you're describing the yeah, five often corner slot corner stuff with Mike Hilton,
often some safety stuff with Jordan Battle and Dax Hill from time to time.
Occasionally you'll you'll see some. Yeah, I mean, when you're describing
the way Flora's likes to sound pressure, there's some of that in the Bengal
system as well, where they will read rush and drop out if guys stay
in, and that sort of thing with running backs and stuff. Yeah,
yeah, stuff like that. You'll see where where linebackers will show blitz and
then like bluff the blitz and back out that that sort of stuff. But
but I don't have a great answer for you as far as what they're doing
this year on a consistent basis to deal with that kind of receiver, just
because they have probably by design. Yeah. Yeah, Well, so the
Vikings offensive line has been lights out this year, which is weird. We
haven't had that in a decade. But they've been phenomenal. They're a little
banged up right now with Brian O'Neill, who's uh didn't practice on Tuesday or
Wednesday or estimated not to practice on Tuesday, but also didn't practice for you
all Wednesday, so I wouldn't expect him to go. He's got a sprained
ankle that would put in David Questenberry, who is Yeah, I'm gonna need
some help over there with some chips and stuff. But otherwise with Ed Ingram
who's improved quite a bit, Garrett Bradbury improved quite a bit, and Dalton
Reisner who they brought in in the middle of the season and Ezra Cleveland got
hurt. Riisner came in, the Vikings didn't skip a beat and they actually
traded Cleveland away they were so happy with him. I kind of have disagreed
with that move. But it's been a good unit in terms of just straight
up one on one pass pro and a lot of the pressure that they've suffered
in the last few weeks has been quarterbacks running into it, particularly Dobbs kind
of rushing into pressure, choosing the bad rush lanes, ruining his angles and
stuff like that. Yeah, but I don't put it on them as much
at least lately. But obviously, you know, you put in backups,
it all changes. Yeah, And that's that's what I'm looking at with O'Neil
potentially missing the game. Yah, yeah, look that. But then on
the other side, like the Bengals by far most explosive and destructive pass rusher
is Trey Hendrickson, who's going against a guy who's been fantastic and Christian Daris
on Hendrickson, Will he be up? Will be he on the uh the
whole time unless they make a dramatic change of plans to take advantage of a
potential backup on the other side. Trey Hendrickson lines up at right end,
and that's a sick matchup that will be must see TV. I think should
be because Darrisaw has been he was He was better last year than he has
been this year. I think, Uh, he's been a little less consistent
this year, but like just in one on one spots, he's still as
good as it gets. He anchors like crazy, like anything that's speed to
power on him, Like you can get into his chest and he's one hop
and he is down. Like the athleticism and flexibility of it. He's so
crazy. Uh. And he'll get in your head a little bit too on
the runs and you know, a little extra shove here and there. He's
kind of a mean, nasty the guy that plays so physically. I've been
saying since I scouted him at Virginia, like Darisaw takes the fun out of
football, Like it just looks miserable to play against him. Yeah, it'll
be an endurance thing as much as anything. You know, Trey Henderson is
going to be talking the entire game too. That's gonna be That's gonna be
so fun. Is known on the Bengals be one of the better trash because
which like I feel like they're great. Well, don't think about Trey Hendrickson.
You got to get him on the interior because Bradbury's a hothead and Reisner
talks a little bit too. Darisaw is pretty quiet, he's pretty like head
down kind of terminator style. But the interior guys will will have a word
with you, so you gotta stunt him on the inside. You know,
see if you can't get guys to go a little bit too hard, draw
fifteen yard flag, that kind of deal. And interestingly, where I think
the stunts will come is going to be on the other side. Sam Hubbard
b J. Hill of combined for a pretty nasty game and twist and power
stuff. That'sruggle with it more right, So that would be the move,
right, that'll be interesting to watch. I think that the whole game plan
for the Bengals on defense is going to be trying to muddy the picture for
Nick Mullins, make him think and make him put the offensive line in a
bad spot because I'm not. After the way the Bengals defense stepped up in
the run game last week, I have a little bit more confidence in them
against a running game. This averaging like the Bengals three point nine yards per
carry does not look to me from the outside to be the most efficient running
game. To make Nick Mullens have to beat them, and yes, Justin
Jefferson can certainly do that. But I think that if they can make it
a Nick Mullins drop back and beat us kind of game, that's where the
Bengals are going to want to live on. Defense makes sense. This game
is on fan duel over under forty that feels high. Yeah, that's exactly
what I was going to say. Ever, retaking the over there like first
to twenty wins kind of game will be there for hours, maybe even seventeen.
Yeah, yeah, first to seventeen. I mean it's going to be.
Here's what I think this game comes down. Do you want to key
to the game? I say it every time. I sound like a broken
record. It's not an interesting answer, but it's the right one. It's
turnovers. Whoever turns the ball over or whoever protects the ball better. I
will say will win the game because you know, if the Bengals are going
to play a lot of aggressive defense, try to generate turnovers. The Vikings
have been turnover prone. If I'm walking away from the Vikings with the loss,
I'm probably going to foresee that I'm blaming that. But on the other
hand, if the Vikings can be safe, protect the ball and let their
defense do what it does, they get it really hard to beat. Yeah,
I think defensive struggle in this one. The defensive plays better wins.
But the X factor I'm going to throw out there is special teams always can
be boy a real wild card. The Bengals have not had great success punting
the ball this year, and they've gotten away with some stuff. Their punt
game has not been great. Let's say they've been pretty good in the kick
return game, which I know they're talking about changing kick return rules again.
But if they have opportunities there to get short fields like short feat olds and
turnovers are are things that you're looking at this week as far as points out
and justin Jefferson jamar Cha is getting loose and getting explosive touchdowns here there like
these are the ways that their points are I'm not imagining long, drawn out,
grindy drives. It's gonna come down to like specific moments rather than this
sort of sustained like the like there's a really good chance that like the overall
EPA or success rate of this game does not match the results of this game,
you know, because it'll come down to youah, that explosive or that
short field when it's it's hard to move the ball. Otherwise you need to
just kind of snap one big one off on in any phase. Or this
is a week but Brian Flora's defense gets figured out, I don't think,
Hey, maybe, but maybe. I mean, it's it's tough with a
backup, you know, you're just kind of trying to survive by that point.
But well, and and they're feeling good about themselves right now. They're
feeling great about their screen game. But I do think that the stylistic defenses,
differences on defense are going to be very difficult and some people it's going
to be fascinating to watch from more on this game, Locktown Vikings, Locktiwme,
Bengals will have you covered both before and after the game. You've got
one more shows this week, and then we've got postgame shows of course as
well here on the Lockdown Podcast network. So until then, thanks for listening
to this crossover and enjoy your weekend.