This is pod Populi Podcast for the People, The Great Love Debate. It's
the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debate.
Hi again, everyone's Brian Howie. Welcome to a Great Love Debate,
the world's number one Dating in a Relationship podcast. It's twenty and fifteen.
I am here in the very fancy studios of pod Populi Podcast for the People.
I'm at the one in Palm Beach Gardens, which I'm rarely in,
but it's very nice if you have the means on Beach Gardens. It's a
place debate. This episode. As I drop, it will be the four
hundredth episode of the Great Love Debate. And it's like, oh, I
should do commemorative thing or whatever. I might get to that four hundred's not
really a fancy number. Five hundreds of fancy number, two fifties of fancy
number, four hundreds, a round number. But I don't know if I
but we are going to do an episode coming up where I kind of look
back the things we were right about, the things we were wrong about,
and the things we want to look at a little closer. That's coming up.
But people ask me all the time, who listens to the Great Love
Debate? Who goes to the Great Love Debate? And our demo is really
sort of all over the place. I mean, we have people in their
eighties literally who write us and listen to the show. We have a lot
of people in their twenties who say, you don't know what's going on with
us. We did a couple episodes devoted to that. But ground zero for
this show and this content and the subject matter of love, sex, dating
relationships is women in their thirties. And I've said on this podcast before,
I think that there's some of the best group of women collectively of any group
of women. They're a little more grown up, they're a little bit know
what they want, they're a little bit more motivated to take life seriously,
and they're and they're really on the cusp of finding out who they are,
which they will get to in the forties, but in their thirties they're really
starting to have that conversation with themselves. So I wanted to dive into that
group. So if you're a fifty two year old man and you're listening to
this, listen up, because you're probably still gonna want to date a thirty
six year old and if you're a twenty four year old girl, woman,
whatever you want to be called, and you're listening to this, this is
the ghost of Christmas future. So I brought it two people who really do
dive into this demographic and this time in life. They are the hosts of
the very fun thirty End podcast, and the thirty end means a whole lot
of things. Brittany and am how are you? Oh my gosh, we're
great. Wouldn't intro I'm sorry, but I feel like four hundred episodes and
yeah, I did us. Yeah, the women in their thirty I did
for the four hundred. I think. I'm really I'm really passionate about it
because a lot of the stuff I get. The women who get the most
mad at me for the subject matter on this show are the women in between,
say, thirty five and forty. That really is sort of target where
the questions need You shouldn't only you could be mad at me. But I
raise a lot of questions that a lot of people are afraid to raise.
So let's go back a little bit. Sure, let's go back to when
you were born thirty something years ago. Is there something you guys are both
in your thirties, hence the name of the shower. That would be false
advertising. Is there something unique or something radically different about being in your thirties
as opposed to in your twenties? Yes, oh yeah, all the above.
Where do you even start about the difference. Well, let's start ramble
on. I've done four hundred shows. I'm tired, so feel free to
carry it. Do you want to banter? Sure? I mean because when
a woman turns goes from twenty nine to thirties, she's all panicked whatever,
and then at thirties she's like, oh, it's basically the same thing,
right, that changes a little bit as the ball gets rolling. Well,
I think you hit the nail on the head when Brian, when you were
talking about, you know, the demographic of women in their twenties kind of
looking to us like the ghost of Christmas, you know, future, and
then the women in their forties they know who they truly are. But I
think that in your thirties really is when you kind of get to look to
the future and take what you've learned in the past and put it all together.
In your twenties, I feel like it's almost like survival mode. You're
almost you're just figuring things out. You're you're just like coming out of like
we talked about college or wherever you're coming from, and you're just kind of
going into adulthood but not an adult yet still still a teenager and just kind
of figuring it all out. Like you know, you get your own apartment
maybe or you have a roommate, and you know, you're still like out
there dating, you know, And then we talked about that, like in
the dating scene was pretty much going out to bars or like going out with
friends and going out drinking, and that was how you ate it and you
met. Yeah, it was so easy to go out with people, you
went home with people exactly exactly, but when you drank four to five times
a week, maybe six or seven, I don't know, but the day.
But was also like the reason why it wasn't just for the fun.
The reason why we're doing all of that is because I feel like, especially
for us in our twenties, especially that was late twenties, when you start
hitting like twenty seven, twenty eight, twenty nine, that's the first time
that I think I really started to feel that societal like pressure and just family
pressure and friend pressure to like hit a certain milestone, get married, find
the guy, do all of these things. And that pressure, I feel
like is wild. When you're in your twenties, You're totally right. This
societal and familial and personal pressure. It comes with getting into your thirties where
you have to think about are you going to do this? Are you going
to do this? Where I mean you're constantly doing that. We travel great
love to make the live show all over the places, you guys know,
when we still do shows in the South, when we go to places like
Charlotte and Nashville and Atlanta. If you get to thirty and you get divorced,
the marriage failed. If you get to thirty and you never got married,
you failed. That is still the perception in a big part of the
country that a lot of women. Yeah, there's still a lot of that,
like what is you know, what is wrong with you? Whatever?
And then when you get into the thirty thirty five, thirty six, thirty
seven, even if you are in a relationship, even if you're then you're
thinking about like is it time to have kids? Or what am I doing?
Or am I putting my career ahead of it? There are a lot
of question that is no picnic for the women being in that age, especially
because the sweet spot for a man, the greatest time to be a man
is like thirty six to forty eight. Sure the pool of possibilities that that
grew passed pick Fune's pretty much anywhere twenty one to fifty five. Yeah,
the world is a zoyster. So to try and get somebody quote unquote your
age to get in the same headspace as you, guys, it's a real
tough bulls out a hit. Do you want to know what the magic part
is? Though? So the magic part about when you are a woman and
you do actually get into your thirties and you feel all of that pressure and
you are still single, something magic happens. I think when you hit maybe
like thirty three, thirty four, thirty five, you stop giving a shit
the same way that you did. Like that is what and that I think,
Brady, you can jump off this. But that comes from having so
much more life experience and seeing other people's social media reels of their relationship and
they everyone looks so happily married and all this stuff, and you know,
oh my god, we talk about that where like the grass isn't always greener
on the other side, and you only see everyone's highlight reel and it's so
funny because I just had going back. I just said, a girl reach
out to me on Instagram twenty seven years old and she wants to come on
to the podcast. And she said, you know, I just feel like
I'm relating with a lot of women in their late twenties because I don't have
it all figured out yet and feel like I should. I'm like, girl,
I'm thirty six and I don't have it figured out. And she was
like, oh my god, like didn't know, you know, I was
thirty six, and I'm like, but I remember when I was twenty seven.
It was so much different. But I still felt that pressure of,
you know, not knowing what I'm doing, where I'm going with my career
relationship, Like just felt so different. Confidence was on a different level,
and coming back even at between thirty and thirty three. I was talking to
Lauren the other day and when I was thirty, she was like, oh,
but you know you were you were so much more mature then or something.
I forgot where we were talking about, and I was like, Lauren,
that was five years ago, because we were talking about someone who's twenty
eight, and you know, we have different maturity levels. She sees things
differently, and I was like, Lauren, my mindset now versus even when
I was thirty three, Like I remember. And you can take like a
twenty six year old right for a perspective, and you can ask a twenty
six year old, why don't you remember what you were like when you were
sixteen, ten years ago? And it is whole and they're horrified, it's
ridiculous. You're like, I was a baby. I didn't know any I
was throwing corn at people's houses, like I was on toilet papering. I
was just learning how to drive right. Mentally, emotionally, I would say
that I feel the same when I'm looking back as a thirty six year old
looking back at my twenty six year old self. But the worst part was
that I thought I had it all figured out. I felt all of those
pressures, and I let all those pressures really guide where I was going in
my life career, for relationship, for family, for friendships, all of
those things that you accumulate kind of in college, and you don't if you
haven't learned those lessons yet, if you have kudos to you, like you're
an amazing twenty six year old. I didn't. Looking back. It's a
joke that I felt like I was expected to make such huge life decisions at
twenty six years old, because the person I am at thirty six, I
trust myself so much more now. In your twenties as a woman, you're
in this sort of blur of bridesmaid's nous and all the people around you.
Yeah, and it's terrible. So in your thirties weddings no matter what decade,
Jesus, that's expensive too, or I s I gave. I didn't
know you had other friends. Sorry, who are the eighteen people? Hate
to break it? I mean I went to eighteen weddings Made of Honor three
times, and I was in probably eight or nine weddings. How many of
those marriages are still together? Oh? Good question. I would say all
of them except my own. That's a different podcast. We already said.
And I'm like, but you bring up like things figure out every decade.
You figure out a little more, but you never figure it all out,
which is I think is part of the fun. So you look back on
very few people that I know, when they get in their thirties or their
forties or the fifties. If they had a chance to wave one and go
back and do it again, they're more likely to be horrified, like,
oh my god. No. From that, there's a certain confidence, you
know. I don't know. If you look at you. Guys are super
fit, so it may not apply to you. But if you look back
at like the twenty four year old version of yourself, there's a confidence probably
missing that makes you more attractive and makes you more appealing to I think date,
I would think, right, it depending on the quality of the man.
Yeah, some men really just you know, they want the deer at
the end of you know, the dough that has the broken leg at the
end of the tribe of the girls who are walking. Never heard that.
I'm sorry? What what? What? David's side is that its movie,
it's a dating site. It's like, you know, when guys and girls
are like drunk at the bar. Sometimes there are specific types of guys that
look for the drunkest girl, the girl who with the equivalent of like the
broken leg and right who it's an easy kill. It's like the easy fit
in the veil. Sometimes sometimes that person's forty seven. It's true, It's
true. So I think I think it depends on the person, but I
would say a higher quality man, yes, if you tried to date I
would say, just speaking for myself, if you tried to date me,
a high quality man trying to date me at twenty four, twenty five,
twenty six would be very turned off by my extreme lack of self awareness and
nance. I think it's easier to date somebody who knows who she is and
knows what she wants, as long as she communicates that information to us.
The challenge for the men is we have no idea who you are, what
you want or everything. And you're like, I'm thirty six, I shouldn't
have to train you, Yeah, but you should have to train us.
You have no fucking idea. I mean, I think communication is always going
to be something that so important no matter what age you are. But I
think the confidence level you're right, The confidence level in a post college setting,
I do agree for women is very, very different for a lot of
people. It was for me. I was a very low self esteem,
low confidence person and made choices just based on what was happening in my life
and where I was supposed to go. What about you, Brett, do
you feel the same way. Yeah, same thing. I mean, I
didn't really have full confidence in myself because I was still trying to figure out
what I was doing in my career at that time. Like what defined me
or what I thought to find me was my career and the person that I
was with. So like, I know when we spoke on our podcast,
like I always the person I wanted to date. Obviously I like them,
but I always wanted to be with that cute, popular guy like that's what
yeah, and I said, they are the worst. Well, I am
single, but honestly, that's what at the time, And that's a maturity,
Like I was looking for just the guy that was cute and popular in
this and that, and I didn't know what I was doing with my career.
I was so focused on being in a relationship that it kind of and
I lacked the self confidence. But now I have the self confidence. And
I'm going to disagree and say that that scares a lot of guys because a
lot of guys want, oh you know, that scares them, I think
you like personally, I mean intimidation, yeah, Like, and I feel
like I do intimidate some guys, and I don't know if that's a good
thing or a bad thing, that's because you could beat them up. Maybe
you might. But but what was was there a moment, an incident,
a day that that flipped that you got confident or that you realized that that
was important? What changed that? What was the fork in the road that
you found that? UM? I think when I had like some really bad
breakups and I realized that I was putting so much focus into that other person,
and like when they didn't want me, I was like, oh my
god, Like what am I doing wrong? What's wrong with me? Am
I not pretty enough? Am I not funny enough? And it was always
what's wrong with me? And then at one point I was just like,
you know, it really started affect my mental health. And I was like,
okay, you know this is what I needed to stop because I got
sick, and um, I started working out. I focused on like my
mental health, my physical health, and I really I started reading a lot
like self help, I guess whatever, and started focusing on my own personal
growth and I kind of like stopped with the dating, and I think I
was lost. And I know that sounds very I guess cliche, but I
think a lot of people um, do feel lost, like you feel like
you have to have it all figured out, And the truth is you don't
have to have it all figured out. None of us really have it all
figured out. And if you do, going back to your point like there's
there's no I mean, if we had it all figured out yet, we
wouldn't we wouldn't know what to do like that sport. It'd be bored.
Yeah, we'd be bored. So for anyone leaving it, you're not leading
an interesting or challenging enough life if you have it all figured exactly exactly so
for anyone if you think everyone, if you look at people well, especially
on like Instagram, and you're like they have it all together, they have
it all figured out. No, No, you stopped looking for confident,
satisfaction, validation in a relationship and said, I'm going to hit the pause
button on the boys and get myself together, get my place where I want
to be. I stopped looking for validation from other people, and I started
focusing on myself and what like what made me happy and that ultimately it was
the game changer, and I just slowly built my confidence up since then and
now, like m M says, it grows so much that there was a
certain point between I would say thirty two to now where you just don't give
a fuck, and you either like me or you don't. You either agree
with me, your value in having that your arsenal. It's not giving a
fuck. Yeah, they're not giving up, although sometimes I do think it
can swing pretty hard in the other direction where you almost like put those walls
off because you don't want anyone to get in because you've learned all those lessons
and you've healed some of the those things, and then the thought of somebody
coming in and kind of messing it all up again makes people a little scared,
justifiably. So Yeah, it's also hard to put out there that you
don't give a fuck. On some levels, that's attractive, but on some
levels people are like, I want you to give a fuck about me,
and yeah, it's dangerous, Like will they ever give a fuck? I
did a whole episode a few back about about caring and how that is really
underrated attribute people that care and not enough people care about enough things now and
trying to balance that with not caring about a lot of the things that don't
matter or that don't bring value to your life. That's always a hard sort
of balance, I would say for me similar to her story, but mine
came on the heels like post divorce, because I was married. I married
somebody who super nice guy, looked great on paper, but we just didn't
click. We didn't click from the relationship beginning, and it took me an
extra like three four years to just even get the confidence to get out of
the relationship. And there, especially when you're the when there's nothing actually wrong,
like nobody's doing anything to each other, there's no you just know you're
with the wrong person. It is you know it's going to be happily ever
after. It is so hard to hurt that person and you're hurting a lot
of other people too. But after that experience, I was so excited to
get out in date because I was immediate post divorce and I was like,
heck, yeah, like I'm a free I'm bad bitches, you know.
But I hadn't learned any of those internal lessons or the emotional lessons about like
why I didn't haven't I didn't want to take the time to reflect because it
was such a painful experience that I didn't I wasn't ready to do that all
I wanted to do was find that person still or weren't mature enough to do
that to understand why totally. So I jumped into like relationship after I just
wanted to give that I had bottled that love up for so long in like
kind of that you know, wrong relationship that I was so excited to get
out there and date that I was painting these red flags white. I didn't
know what I was doing. I was choosing wrong partners, making excuses for
them. And after I think it was like the second or third failed relationship
post divorce, I just had this like straw that broke the camel's back aha
moment where I was like, holy shit, this whole time, I keep
looking at the guys for all these red flags that they have right, like,
well he wasn't the right person because of X, Y Z reason and
we just didn't click and blah blah blah. And I was like, Uh,
the only consistent constant in all of these bad relationships is this person right
here? It me Yeah, so I have the red flags. And so
I did the same thing she did. I went into this period of like
isolation and self discovery. I really started reading a lot of books, started
listening to a lot more podcasts, and this actually was, like, I
mean, it sounds shitty to say, but it was like a magical moment
because it was like, really during the height of the pandemic that all of
this was happening, and I kind of had the time and the energy to
sit and really explore myself and get to know myself and trust myself again.
Well, a little bit too pressures off. You've never been married, right,
you don't have to deal with that question, how come you're still single
or whatever? Because you're like that is almost disagree you shouldn't so much worse,
well, being is harder to date is a divorced person now that it's
harder to date as a divorced person. But I think that if you think
that going out there being like, oh, yeah, I'm divorced makes you
almost like more relatable or people are more understanding of it personal pressure, Like
I did it a lot of people like I want to, but they've been
married either. But they look at you and they're like, oh my god,
but what happened? But he was such a nice guy and you're such
a beautiful girl. And then it gets worse because they're like one of you
must have done something wrong. Yeah. They want a better story. They
want a better story, and the story that you give them is like we
just weren't in love and I was not going to like keep Yeah, I
don't. I don't ask why did it end? I wanted to ask,
when did you know it wasn't going to be fifty years? And you're like
six months in? Yeah, and I hear that all. I hear that
more than any other. I was also a very verbal about six years.
Yeah, you were verbal too, my partner. You said, listen,
I don't know if this feels right, absolutely good for you, and I
was, and they tried to convince you otherwise. Yep, give it time.
I had a lot of people around me that I trusted very much,
um you know, friends, family members, things like that, who saw
the goodness in him and they were like, this is this is the first
like appropriate person that you dated? Because I was dating, you know,
I had like filled relationships and I was dating people who weren't like quote unquote
from their perspective marriage material. That's a point of your twenties. Sure,
yeah, I go through all the inappropriate people. You know, they they
were supportive, they wanted me to be happy, but they also wanted me
to be realistic about the fact that this partner was coming to the table as
like a very like secure person who had a great job, who who was
a really nice person, and who loved me very much. And anytime I
would express like, but I don't love this person, I was the vibe
was always like, but what's wrong with you that you don't because we all
do? And you think tomorrow I'll be the day I wake up and I
will feel this thing. Or did you just be like initially I did,
but I knew everybody, everybody always you have this voice deep down? You
do you have this intuition? You have this You were probably blaming it on
yourself in therapy for a year and I asked the same question every week,
and I would sit there and I would say, what is wrong with me?
But I cannot love this person the way that they love me? And
finally she looked at me and she was like, the real question is what
is wrong with you that you feel like you have to Yeah? And my
whole I was like, what, but you have to figure this out.
You don't right, might not love them right? And you had that you
had pressure, and I wasn't always direct pressure, but I will say there
were a couple people who kind of said things to me who I trusted and
I was in a very low state of confidence, and who would say things
like, why can't you just move to the suburbs and just pop out a
couple of kids and just be normal Emily, Yeah, yeah, that sounds
awful effect, But if you knew me, I didn't value the fact that
I was special and that I did like something different, and I couldn't.
I didn't have the confidence to own that and say to all these people,
you can go and live your lives the best that you can leave me alone
to live mine. And if you don't like who I'm dating, that's on
you, not me. I'm the one that has to wake up next to
them every day. Yeah. Pressure is a tough thing. Um, we
have pressure to pay for this fancy bomb beach garden studio here, So I
got to take a quick break. Well, I'm here with Brittain m and
they are from thirty end and we're going to dive a little bit deeper into
thirty and a whole bunch of stuff right after this, and we are back
the best so you consider yourself to be in your mid thirties. Oh yeah,
okay, not late thirties. No, stop it in early thirties to
those people who are listening in their twenties, and the people in their forties
and fifties are gonna be like, oh silly girls. Still, what's the
best thing about being in your mid thirties? The confidence? Confidence, period,
self awareness? Yep, just that sounds self respect that you have for
yourself. I feel like can get easily lost in your twenties, and I
feel like in your thirties as the first that's the first time that I ever
felt comfortable with who I am as a person, confident in who I am
as a person, and like actually wanted to focus on what my purpose was
on this planet. You have time to reflect. Like, the twenties is
all about learning and like going through and kind of like figuring those things out.
And then once you hit thirty, you're still kind of figuring it out.
But then I don't know, something happens where you're just like you really
stop and you look back and you're just like, if you're not learning,
first of all, you need to take what you've gone through, and you
need to learn from it. You need to reflect the things that have gone
wrong, why they've gone wrong, and really invest time in yourself. And
I feel like a lot of people don't do that, and that's where you
kind of feel lost. And like I talk a lot to a lot of
women that do feel like that. They feel lost. They spend so much
time caring for other people, whether it be their husband, their kids,
etc. Etc. And they don't know what they want to do. They
don't know who they are, they don't know what they want to be.
And you know that's not everyone. Like really, I want to say cares
about that? Maybe, but it is important you want to you know there
you know, I don't want to say their validation, but like their kids
are what make them happy and bring them joy, and like that's what their
purpose is. You go from a husband wife to mom and dad because the
house of my wife isn't that fun once you become mom and dad? Yeah?
Unfortunately or fortunately, which is why I ask a lot of women I
ask this question. This is when I get to trouble. But I do
ask this question. And I'm not saying you guys are the ones who have
to answer it, but I ask this women would you rather be fifty years
love of your life, never been so happy? No kids? Would you
rather have ten years? So so marriage, two kids, option a dink
option, a double income, no kids? Well wait yeah, Now a
lot of women are like, I don't I shouldn't have to choose, right,
you should have both whatever. So you have to almost when you get
in your thirties, you have decide, am I gonna go for the love
or because I don't trust I'm gonna get that? Do I want the kids
because I will be happy with that? And that is the fork in the
road that I get in trouble all the time. Well, you know,
so and so I had kids at forty seven. Realistically, you have to
look at the numbers and the odds and all that. You get into your
late thirties, and then you have to decide when do I pull the parachute
on this and this guy's finally he'll be a good dad and we'll have two
kids and I'll worry about the marriage later, or if it's like I'm just
going to hold out for the love I believe I deserve and whatever happens happens,
and maybe we have kids and maybe we don't. That is the biggest
challenge for most women in their thirties, and they don't like to talk about
it. Yeah, but I mean it's scared you feel like I mean,
I mean for me, like once once, I mean I forgot for a
while that I was thirty six, and I was like, yeah, I'm
thirty five, and it's like, oh shit, like I'm on the other
and you're like, I'm in good shape, and so it's no big deal.
But yeah, but it's it's you know, next year, it's thirty
seven, then it's thirty eight, and it's like it's scary because the time
is not stopping. So if you do want kids, like I kind of
feel the pressure that you know that we're at that point right now, right,
and so you have to decide that kind of musical chairs thing, like
when do I grab the seat and then if or if you want lots of
kids, like there's differentes or and if you're dating a guy who's thirty nine
and he wants lots of kids, he's got to do that math to all
the time, and the women get mad and they look at the exceptions and
oh, I could freeze my eggs and all that. You still have to
be realistic about it, sure, or if you find someone that you really
like and they don't want kids and they don't want kids, or she might
want kids, or you know, we've had that. It happens too and
everybody has the right to change their mind. And everybody, you know a
lot of women at twenty eight like, oh my god, I don't have
kids, and they're defined by being their mom mom the same thing. So
that's the choice that when you get to thirty five to forty two, which
road do I want to go down here? And I'm not saying you can't
go down both roads, so don't send me letters here, but you kind
of have to bend, like, listen, I just want to fall in
love with this person. And however it works out, because you can get
married and not be able to conceive, he might not. There's a hundred
different ways. You can't just think life's going to present itself in a bow.
But you have to make choices on who you're dating. Some people are
like, I don't want to date somebody with kids because they might not want
to have kids as badly, and all these decisions that you don't necessarily have
to make it twenty three, which is true, But I will say that
for my only question, my only issue with the fork is that I don't
know that it's that extreme of a choice of do I settle for a less
appropriate, like less in love, less good partner in order just to use
that person to have kids, or do I find the love of my life
and live happy for the next fifty years without the ability to have kids.
I don't know that it's always that extreme. A little bit it's on the
mind, but I will say that just anecdotally, I would say that we
know plenty of people that chose Option B where they looked at the partner that
they were with, they didn't see a lot of the values that they normally
would have had on their checklist that were important, not like dumb things,
you know, like for them, you know, we talk about height or
like what not, like physical traits, but just like partnership characteristics. They
really wanted the kids really, really badly, and so they made those exceptions.
And I will tell you that five years in when those kids are starting
to grow up a little bit and you start to see the cracks in the
marriage and things like that, no parent, mother or father I've ever heard
say like I regret having kids. I love their kids, right, It's
a different type of love than They can't imagine their lives without it, but
they are able to realistically say, if I could go back and make a
decision about the type of partner I was picking, maybe I would have chosen
a little bit differently. It's amazing people can be in divorce court, hating
each other for years, yet happy with the DNA that they combine to make
these children. It's very rare that you'd be like, oh my god,
I wish I had kids, and I would say that, which is,
you know, interesting, It's weird, And I think that it also depends
on the type of women that you're talking to. There are women that I've
known my entire life that they feel like their mission, their purpose, internal
core to who they are as a person. Their purpose was to be a
mom. Right, Those are the women that I do think, more often
than not choose that second option or do they choose the third option? Be
the mom and then circle back, you know, on your own, which
is no picnic anyway, have the kid or kids and then come back to
rather than use the guy for this sort of nebulas that you're kind of stuck
semi connected to this person for fifty years. I want to be a mom.
You take care of that, and then in your forties go back and
start dating again. I mean, in the modern world, that's always an
option women that are I think it depends on where your priorities are. Like
For me, what, I love to be a mom, absolutely, but
I have learned enough in my own relationships and seeing and watching other people's.
You know, relationships with and marriages with kids crumble and fall in the most
epic effing fashion you've ever seen. The toll that a divorce when you have
children takes on everybody involved is it's really hard and it's so common, but
it's really hard on those parents too, because they love those kids so much,
but the partnership is just so broken, and they want the kids to
have the family unit. Nothing. They want the kids to have the family
unit. But you make it's almost like if you go into it knowing that
that partner isn't the right partner for you, you're kind of knowing that that
you're setting it. Yeah, that's almost the likelihood that you're picking. And
so to me, I would rather for whatever, whether you want, God,
universe however, things are going to shake out, I would rather at
least give myself the best chance possible, or give those kids the best chance
possible if if I can have them with the best partner. And I use
that word partner. I know it's like a really popular word to use instead
of like a husband. You know, we don't say like husband does much
anymore? Right, Like the language has Yeah, it has. But I
say partner because when I look around and I see the successful marriages, they
are truly partners. I mean there's not one person that's carrying ninety percent of
the load and then the other person's carrying ten percent. It's a true partnership.
They are working together. They are a team. That's where I see
it work, not just in the relationship, but for the kids also.
So I'd rather give myself the best chance possible. If I fought so hard
to get here for the happiness, Yeah, why would I give it up
to live with somebody and create a life and create children on this planet with
somebody that I'm not crazy about it? And that is the unfair advantage that
the man has, like it or not, that he can dick around,
for lack of a better term, totally. Yeah, till he's fifty one.
Before I've been like, yeah, I'm going to have some kids now,
you know. And there's plenty of women who will be like, Okay,
I will date that guy and have kids with him. But it's almost
like women have to face the scarcity mindset, whereas men don't necessarily have to
do that. Um, but I just I would rather choose my own personal
internal happiness because you could, I mean, you could get struck by lightning,
so like, you know, you could get hit by a bus.
Yeah, every day, every day, every single day. So why would
you give up? You know? And who's if you choose option B?
Who's to say you couldn't have chosen Option A and had the most wonderful,
beautiful life in the world, and then option B is riddled with pain.
You can't live your life with regret. I guess there's choices you can make.
Now. Are most of your social circle married women with kids or do
you? Are you not in that? Yeah? Minor and married with kids?
Yeah, And is it easy for you to look at them be like,
oh my god, that's terrible parenting. Not terrible parenting, the like
I would fix that in five secondly think you can. But I feel like
it's different when you have the kids. Not at all. I'm like,
I don't know how you do it. Like I hang out with them for
a little bit and then I'm like, okay, I gotta go, like
exhausted after an hour. It's just me and We're on two different I don't
I'm not really in a um rush to have kids, And I think it
comes down to like what you want, Like you said a lot of I'm
not giving up the abs yet. No, I have anxiety about those girls
that are pregnant in the gym, like, yeah, I worked too hard
to give now. It's just not something that I'm like, and I know,
like I do feel a certain stress because I know, you know,
we are getting older. But like a lot of women in right now in
our at our age are like, okay, I really really like want to
have kids, and like feel like a really like dire pressure that they need
to go out and they need to find this person and will kind of give
that person, um, I guess a little bit of lead if they don't
like check all their boxes or what have you, and they'll kind of settle.
But like I don't feel like that at all. I do feel somewhat
pressure, but um, I just I'm kind of at the mindset. If
it happens, it happens, and if not, Like so, most of
the guys that most of the women in your demo are going to date or
in their thirties and forties, what advice would you give those men to deal
with thirty something women that they might have been different from twenty something women other
than the fact that you are a little more independent and headstrong, not necessarily
a bad way, but you know, in this group of boys, this
group of guys in your twenties, your advoice is probably like just sober up
a tad but thirties and forties to deal with this unique equipment that is the
thirty something women, what what advice do you give the thirty and forty something
guys that they would help better understand you, because that's the biggest challenges They
have no fucking idea what you're thinking? To learn how to communicate? I
feel like a lot of guys do not know how to communicate and be clearer
about what it is communicator calling the communicator black yea, what does that mean?
We all this whole show is about confidence of communication. At the end
of the day, what is that. We can't even compliment you anymore.
We can pass they're like, oh, you look so pretty? What do
I look like? Bad? Every other day? We can't even go we
either, we can't say that I made the joke and it's not even a
joke on our signature lines rather than pronouns. Give me your preferred compliments,
like if you want to be like pretty, hot, cute, beautiful,
put that in there, and then we take them all right, But a
lot of guys, it can only go wrong, so we can't even So
you were around in a point in a point in life when we were like,
oh my god, you're so hot, and that was fine, you
liked it. Nobody can say that anymore. You're like, oh, you're
still set time and place. Like if some guy just watched to me and
I'm working out in the gym and he takes his headphones on, he interrupts
one of my sets, and I'm like, hey, what's up, and
he's like, you are hot, I would be like, I'm gonna choke
old that's I'd be like, I'm gonna play shooting his shot. What do
you want to wait for? Him to see you with your no learn how
to shoot your shot? You want him to wait outside the gym. That's
his worst. No, yeah, that's right, him out like I have
one shot. The words do you? The words start up of conversation like
you're doing a good job. You do that trying? Yeah? Yeah yeah,
do you need a spot? And you're like, see that's what I'm
saying. He has no idea when to say it, how to say it,
who to say too. So I'm looking for a little you say,
communicate better the fund does that do you have in terms of like anything and
whether in a relationship asking you out first age asking what can the boys do
better? That you're like, if they just did this, turn the dial
up twenty percent better on this, everything would be better. So it's so
different now because we have social media, right, and I get all the
time and I'm gonna say creeps. But they go into the DMS and I
got one the other day and I was just telling are and I was like,
this drives me absolutely crazy, and I don't know why it does,
but it annoys me. They're like they'll say something like about fitness and I'll
like like their comment and they'll be like, it'd be a great, you
know, topic to talk over a date. Literally, I've never had a
conversation before with them, and it's only the second message that they've sent to
me. Why does that make me so angry? I'm like, you don't
know me. You're basically only judging by obviously how I look, And I
think it annoys me because really judging them by how they look, I know
you you opposed so much more content than just what You're not going to know
them until you have a date. So well that's what he said, because
he goes, he don't right, because a lot of women will be like,
he messaged me seven times and he didn't ask me out. So the
men here this too, like what would you like me to do? You
don't want me to cook to you and tell you're hot, you don't want
me to do sliding your dms twice and say let's have a date Man's Land.
So they're back to video games and pouring these guys and he goes,
well, that's what a date is, and I was like, I don't
do that. I just said I don't do that. I don't like he
didn't even try to get to know me first. And he did. He
said, let's go on a date, which is the very definition of trying
to get to know you. That's what he's said, right, I just
tell what, do you get to know you by? What? Just like
asking me questions? He wants to do that face to face. You gotta
get out a little in the real world. That's she doesn't want to.
I think I'm not there. Yeah, we used to be able to just
walk up to you and ask you the exact same question. Now you want
this sort of artificial barrier between you to answer these questions on the problem.
You're definitely the problem. We're both saying the same thing. I know,
but that's what I'm saying, Like you want them to communicate better. He's
trying to communicate to you face to face, and you're like, whoa,
back off, stay on the device. Yeah, I live in an amaze
amouse, Mace. I hope I have balls up, for sure. But
I think that I kind of agree with Brian. I just I just think
that you're I'm sorry, I think that you're a little charred. Your perspective
of anybody that reaches out is your immediately skeptical of them, for sure,
And that's only because starting almost line that I've said in my life here on
this show Day one is the women look for red flags and the men look
for green lights. And that's because I've been in so many shitty relationships,
I think, And that's not fair to them. No, you got to
get rid of that baggage, yeah, or or been like you can have
a little bit of guard up, but give him the chance to prove you.
If he had said something really funny, I feel like maybe you would
have funniness gets me, that I would have entertay to me. I'm like
that I would have entertained you. I think if he had said something funny,
I think you would have responded back. But also you're getting you're talking
about how to split some carbs. Like See, that's why the women are
like if the funny gets me, they don't know what you think is funny,
because that's subjective too. It sure is. There's no perfect pill,
like there's no magic pill. There's no right answer for every guy and every
girl. But I would say for her, like somebody who's a good communicator
in sense of humor, like and by good communicator that is also though kind
of the equivalent of like a on two punch, like there was no lead
up, There was no like, you know, trying to get to know
her in any former fashion, like how's your day going? Like hey,
like I'm this, he's there. It's a random social media so like that's
a completely well what did we used to be? The random person in the
bar? So much harder, we're all much more difficult. Actually, the
rejection is a lot easier to handle on a woman's end, not in person.
I know that then, which is why it's become way too easy to
just nope, nope, nope, nope, because it's hard to do that,
which means that that guy had an extra beat or five seconds or sixty
seconds where you had to sort of hear him out and he misses that.
But again, the women and guys in the same way. They want to
just sit there and be pen pals forever and hope you'll send him all.
But that was also back in the day when girls would give fake numbers,
Like you would go up to a girl to a bar, you would hit
on her in a bar, and she would seem, you know, kind
of into it, and give you the wrong numbers. They call that number
and if you're doing the wrong number and your phone doesn't ring in your life.
I know I'm talking about this idea. Back in the day, you
used to go out with a guy just because he had a pen and a
napkin at two o'clock in the morning. Not only did he write your phone
up, he also used to have to pick you up. He used to
be like, you're gonna pick me up, here's my address. You would
give that guy a shot. You wouldn't have six friends on speed dial.
You wouldn't be like, I'm only going to do things that that take fifteen
minutes to get out. You would commit to the date to find out if
you liked somebody. We don't do that anymore because you watch too much date
Line and Lifetime movies and you think everyone and you're and you've brought line,
and you've brought a lot of the twenties. Most likely yeah, everybody's an
asshole or didn't work out, and so statistically you look at all that you
only need the last one to work out. You know, you only need
the next one to work out, which could be like you gotta key,
I feel like see I'm the opposite. I used to give so like the
people who didn't deserve a chance, didn't do it. I would give like
everybody a chance, Like I when you talk about when you talk about the
difference between dating in your twenties and thirties, my like, you know,
looking back and being really honest with myself, my only criteria was like if
you liked me, I was like, okay, cool, because I was.
I didn't. I've always said, right, I only feel breaker is
that you don't like me exactly, which is such like a you know,
that's such a tough mentality when you look back and I, you know,
I'm trying to be a little kinder to myself about the person that I was
back then. But now I still have that like open heartedness and I'm still
like a little bit more open. I'm just a little bit more discerning about
who I led into my physical space. I may entertaine. I you know,
I'm not the immediate shut down like block if somebody says something to me
online or anything like that. For the most part, um it depends I
sent you those screenshots. You want to know what he said. He was
like, maybe we can both make money off each other and try to send
like a like a dick pick situation. See, that's that's the problem.
So I get I get a message from a guy on social media? Yeah,
um, and I don't I'm private. And a guy sent a message
and he was like, hey, I didn't answer because I didn't know who
I like, couldn't he I couldn't figure out who he was. Two days
later, he sends me another message and he's like, so, what's up.
And I was like, I'm sorry. Do we know each other?
And he said no, but I'm sure we should, like we I definitely
want to. So I click his profile. I look through. He's married.
Oh, and I'm like, what the fuck is that is? Like
i mean waved time of a lighthouse And I'm sitting there and I'm like what
is this? And I'm and I was like, um, no, thanks,
not interested. And he's like, but why not? We can make
so much money with like a dick emoji or whatever, like basically propositioning me
to do some type of like only fans or right. So I immediately blocked,
deleted, you know, stuff like that mildly flattering, so for unfortunate
thank you for all I know it was her yeah oh yeah, or it
was a fake profile or whatever. So for all those The unfortunate part for
me is they are going up against a stream of people that act like that.
Yeah, so when you want to talk about putting up, oh,
I agree. The thing though, that is the bigger barrier to that when
you get in your thirties and your forties is your life is much more fulfilled
without him. You don't need him. You have your friends, and your
job, and your self esteem and your your activities. You have a little
bit more money than you used to blah blah blah that that you don't need
him. And so for him, the bull's eye he's got to hit to
get into your world. It's like shooting at a twelve foot basket versus a
ten foot basket, because he has to figure out a way to enhance your
day to day, which is much harder to enhance. Guys love competition.
Let the games begin. Most guys do, they really do. They love
competition as long as you're open to the competition. I think one of the
problems, I mean for me, is finding the time because we're not getting
any younger, and he still feel that pressure. Like I feel like a
lot of the time that and this is just me. I don't and this
sounds bad, but I don't want to quote unquote waste my time. Like
I feel like, as soon as I get to that date, if I
know that we are not going to connect, I do not want to spend
an hour and a half, two hours there, two years exactly right.
That's it's like if we meet, you know, cut your whatever date,
the coffee date. You like the coffee date over the oh, I hate
that too. You like the drinks date. I just I did ice cream,
ice cream. She loves ice cream. Yeah, but that's kind of
how I feel like. I'm at a point right now where I feel like
I would be wasting my time. Like you hear people who go out on
ninety nine dates and then they find that one. I'm like, I go
on bumble and I'm like, I don't have the time. I feel like
it's just wasted energy. That's the other challenge. Though you don't want to
in your thirties, forties, whatever. You don't want to waste two three,
four years on betting on the wrong horse. Sure, but you also
have to give enough time to work through that ick. That sort of thing
it could which could happen date one, it could happen six months in where
if you just got through that storm, everything would be great. We're not
willing to do that any because the first sign like, oh this doesn't feel
perfect. Next, yeah, it's I don't even know what perfect is though
exactly so. And I think that it depends it. I hate to say
it. It really does depend on how much work you've done on yourself.
If you've done enough work on yourself, you kind of know you're not per
I know it. I am not showing up to a deal. But we
have standards we have we have I mean for I mean, I'll speak for
me, but my my standard. Do you try to what? But our
standards are a lot higher now, like the things that minus one person that'll
probably be on our thirty end. He's like, yeah, um, but
they're they're set higher now. So and I don't know if that's you want
someone who's the cherry on top, you want some I you want someone who's
a little more settled either in who they are, what they wanted out of
life in their career, if you can answer the questions honestly about whether or
not you even want to have kids. I would say for women in their
thirties, although it's not always at the forefront of our mind. That's a
that's not true, that's a myth. It's not always at the front of
our mind because we are so like loving of our lives more I would say,
in your thirties or more confident, and we have a so we have
so much fun. I mean, we really do in our thirties, like
just as different kind of fun than in your twenties. But we love to
have fun. We love all of that. It's not always about I need
to reproduce, I need to have a kid. I need to have a
kid. You know. It's not always that focused. But that actually gives
me anxiety for britt Taylor Swift's back out there in her thirties single again,
I mean, you know, I mean it's the best always. Jennifer Aniston
never got married to the to the right person, like and I'm not saying
that that's like in something we should look up to and look for, but
she was the most beautiful woman in the world for twenty years. She's no
picnic. Potentially, I would imagine that what goes on behind closed doors between
all of those people, there's always a reason for it, you know,
and you don't know what's but never that being said, I think the thing
that you probably can tell the guys what I think you guys are looking for.
You guys are the collective a part you want someone who has either done
the work yeah, or is doing the work at the very least knows that
he has work to do. Any of them. As men in our twenties
and thirties, we are so used to not showing any weakness, any vulnerability,
any that we think we have to never reveal any of our shit that
when we do, you guys are actually relieved because you're like, oh,
I know there's something there, save me the trouble of finding it, and
tell me what it is you have been working on to be better. I
think that goes a long way totally, and I'll support somebody going through that
process as a lot. Like we had an episode that we were talking about
like dating and like what's your what's your non negotiables? My number one non
negotiable was somebody who is committed to working on themselves, because that work never
ends. The therapy is a plus. It can be therapy absolutely if you
don't have. In this day and age, it's so accessible. There's no
way that you don't have shit that you're dealing with from your childhood or a
breakup or a girl that broke your heart when you were in high school or
you know. We talked about this last time that we were in the studio,
about how men are suffering from like a severe lack of real friendships with
other men, those things like they can't process. The girls rally around her
and you'll take her for a weekend, like fuck him, he's an asshole.
Whatever. The men scattered, they're like, oh, I don't want
to be around him totally. And it may not even be a relationship.
It may be somebody who just rejected him at the gym or something that he's
carries this sadness or hatred or anger around with him and it manifests. It
might come out in marriage and they bleed all over everybody else at some point.
So commitment to working on yourself in some form or fashion, I would
say, is an in the list of non negotiables for both of us.
Yeah, I've dated a lot of guys that put on a front that they
have nothing wrong, that they were perfect, and like deep down inside,
like I knew that things that they were doing or saying to me was a
reflection of how they were feeling. And it's that goes back to like that
gas lighting and and then it comes out on to kids. So if you
choose to have kids with an unhealed or some or somebody who's not even aware
that they have some issues that they need to work on, even if it's
just with a friend. Like I'm not saying every guy has to go to
therapy, but like if you're going to pretend like you don't have ship going
yea, or at least be able to say, like, listen, I
tend to do this, or I wish I didn't do this, or I'm
sorry saying I'm sorry people. That's a huge value too. Yeah, but
that's what you meant by communication, like being able to actually like express yourself
and like being a good commune express your feeling. Can you don't get that
with yeah, I feel like to Yeah. All right, In the interest
of time, this is your first time on this podcast. We will have
you back again before you get to the forty end. Thing, I promise
we play something called worst date or first date, So you either have to
give us the absolute worst date you've ever been on or the greatest first date
you've ever went on? Your choice? Start with you, Brett. Oh
god, um, that was the last time you went on a date.
Well, this can go back twenty years. If you want the worst day
you've ever been on, worst date or am you can jump in if you
got one in the holster, that's a great I mean, it's such a
hard question when you've dated so many people. I'm just kidding. Try let
me go through the rolodex. Hold on, Um, this is pathetic because
you don't have a bad one, or you don't have a good one,
or either are either. I guess I haven't dated. I'm trying to like
really Yeah, next girlfriend of mine right now is writing her memoir. I
don't think I'm in the book, which is really insulting both ways, Like
I wasn't an asshole enough or I wasn't memorable. It's insulting two ways.
Oh god, what was the one I sent you in the parking lot the
other day? Was it the guy that lied about his height? No,
that wasn't even a date. Oh my god, because you laughed immediately and
I'm jumping this is deaf, So I wouldn't say it's the best state but
it was a really really good one for me. I went on a date
with a guy. He's a wonderful guy. It was it I suggested.
So I like to do activities for the most part, either it's a coffee
date or like I like to do some type of activity ax throwing exactly like
an axe throwing Europe. So we went to top Golf and when we got
there, it was like kind of awkward at first, you know, we
got a couple of drinks, were like playing a little bit, and he
kind of pulls me aside and he's like, so you recommended this date.
I thought you were going to be like good at Top Colf And I was
like, oh no, I am freaking horrible. The reason why I am
here is because I think it's really fun and I just wanted to keep trying
to hit valls of the driving range. But we ended up just like having
so much fun with the experience of just the two of us, and like
I just felt like I got to know him so well as a person and
like it at you know, he gave me a really nice kiss good night,
and I laughed, and I just remember feeling like on cloud nine when
I left, and I felt like he rolled with the punches a little bit
because I had kind of suggested that as the date and so he didn't really
have control over that, and he kind of let me do that part of
the date, like pick where we were going and what we were going to
do, and he we had so much fun. It was a fantastic to
do. And I like that doing something badly bowling, ice skating and karaoke.
If you do them terribly, they're fun, and if you do them
well, they're fun. Yeah. Just saying like I'm just gonna miss the
ball at top golf, that's probably better and less to better at icebreaker than
if you're just hitting three undred yard drives. Totally so, and it like
it also gave him not meat. I didn't do it that way to be
like this damsel in mistress, but he was pretty good and so it gave
him an opportunity exactly here's the show. Yeah, let me come behind you,
let me squeeze from behind you, let me show you how to know.
But it like it it allowed us to kind of be ourselves but also
just like explore, like doing this activity together and it was a freaking awesome
date. So you know who you're listening. I guess I'm realizing that I
need to come on more dates. Maybe we can just what about your worst
Yeah, I was in I was in a relationship from like like ten years.
I can give a story a really good worst dates. I'm excited.
Okay, okay, this is a good one. New Year's Eve, m
my sister, we had a big party up in Toronto and my boyfriend of
like five years came and we had been on and all for like five years,
and a bunch of my friends were there, and he ended up getting
mad at me. This is a very toxic relationship. He ended up getting
mad at me, saying that I was paying attention to my friends too much
and not enough time to him. He ended up leaving New Year's Day and
flying to downtown Toronto and spent the entire he left you, he left me?
Yeah, did you die with him again? Spending Yeah? Too much
time with my friends. So that's probably where I'm not dating right now.
Yeah. I was scarred. I was like, what did I do?
Your friends? Hot? Of course, everybody about your podcast and how they
can find it and anything else you want to do, so you can follow
us at thirty and on Instagram. But most importantly, if you want to
listen to us talk more about dating, relationships, life in your thirties,
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forget to follow Britt on Instagram at Britt dot h E y n E Brett
hin Um and yeah, that's how you can get to know us a little
better. Good, don't don't slide into your m Yeah, don't slide into
Britt's DM and say, don't just walk up to me at the gym while
she's doing crunches. This was good you guys. As far as us like,
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Your reviews mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem. Shoot us an email
Great Love Debate at gmail dot com. If you've got questions, thoughts,
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Great Love Debate dot com. Live tour schedule. We are going back for
a few more shows, not as many as we used to good Night's Comedy
Club in Raleigh, North Carolina. We've never done a show in Rawley,
We're going to do that, and finally, our first show in six years
in the Valley of the Sun in Phoenix will be at the Tempe Improv.
Tickets will be on sale at Great Low Debate dot com probably by the time
you listen to this, because as always at the Great Love Debate, we
never stopped making love. See you next time, the Great Love Debate.
It's the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate.