You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
Episode number three seventy three The Way I see it. If you want
a rainbow, you got to put up with the rain dolly parton broadcasting from
a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on that
next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business
of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your
host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting
Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show
is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. Now. Unlike other script coverage services,
Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project you are and the goals
of the project you are, So we actually break it down by three categories,
micro budget, indie film, market, and studio film. There's no
reason to get coverage from a reader that's used to reading tempole movies when your
movie's gonna be done for one hundred thousand dollars and we wanted to focus on
that. At Bulletproof Script Coverage, our readers have worked with Marvel Studios,
CIA, WME, NBC, HBO, Disney, Scott Free, Warner Brothers,
The Blacklist, and many many more. So if you need your screenplay
or TV script covered by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot Com.
Now, Guys, today on the show, we have filmmaker Edson Oda
Now. Edson has directed and written an amazing new film called Nine Days,
which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival and is getting a lot of buzz for
possible Oscars this year. And I've had the pleasure of seeing that film and
I understand why people are talking about it in that way. Nine Days is
about a person who sits in judgment of new souls and they have to basically
go through a nine day process to get to be awarded life. And so
basically, newborn souls come in, there's a review process, and if you
don't pass the review, you don't go forward towards life. And it is
haunting and wonderful and heart wrenching, and the film just pulls every emotion that
you have when you're watching it. It was really interesting because the film was
part of the Sundance Screenwriting Lab and this is his first feature film with an
amazing cast. It looks like the MCU just kind of blew up in his
movie because he has a lot of NCU alumni in his film. But let's
just get into it because it's such a fascinating conversation on how he went from
commercial in Brazil to directing Nine Days. So, without any further ado,
please enjoy my conversation with Edson Oda. I like to welcome to the show.
That's an oda. How you doings in good good man? How's it
going? Thank you? Thank you doing well man. I'm so happy to
have you on the show man. Like I was telling you before we got
on, I had the pleasure of watching Nine Days and I absolutely loved it.
I think it's it's a film that we need in this world now,
just kind of starts that conversation, starts that conversation about a deeper conversation about
what we're doing. And I think the pandemic is really made us think about
our lives in general. But before we go down the rabbit hole on your
film, how did you get into business? Yeah, I was born and
raised in Brazil, and then I started working advertising, like straight out of
college, and then I worked in everyth that's for like ten years as a
copywriter. And then afterst that, I moved here to the West. I
went to film school, Grab film school, and uh yeah, and then
I just started writing stuff. And there's at some point it just rolled nine
days and got to the Sunder's Labs, and then from Sunden's Labs, I
got like I'm genius, some producers and then from then on it just like
started saying out and so like got finance. So that's pretty that's awesome.
So when you were in Brazil you were working in the commercial world. I
was, yeah, I was. I used to work in advertising agency.
Oh I got oh very much. So I've been a commercial director for twenty
years, so I yeah, but I've been a commercial director for over twenty
five years, between music videos and commercials and stuff. So I and before
that I was editing in editing commercials as well. So I'm very well aware
of the agency side of the agency side of the business. Now, you
know, coming from a commercial background and a music video background, how do
you how did that prepare you to jump into your first feature? Uh?
It prepared a lot actually, you know. And it was interesting because when
I migrate, you know, I said like, oh, yeah, not
gonna I'm just going to start from you know, uh, from beginning,
you know. But then I think as it was just when it was doing
prap and it was filming, I saw that it was it prepared quite a
bit actually, especially writing because it was a copywriter. And it was interesting
because in terms of uh, I think commercials are a very high concept,
you know, and you you always try to grab people's attention in like a
short span of time, and there's something that even like nine day, if
you pitched someone there, there's a kind of a element like, oh this
is this is weird, this is different. And I think even when it
was coming up with the concept that was trying to go uh with something that
sell kind of unique somehow, and it felt in the same time when you
in advertise, you always you're push to just like I have the best execution
to one single scene that's like thirty seconds, you know, so I think
every every single scene somehow I saw more or less like an you know,
a commercial in the way that I need, you know, tons of the
execution, just just I know one that I felt like, all this this
switch well to the story and what I want to achieved. So it was
it was very helpful to be honest. Yeah, I mean when you're writing.
When you're writing, you ideally you're supposed to have a beginning, of
the middle, and end in every scene. Uh. And with commercial you
are trained to do that every thirty seconds. So it helps you with your
writing a lot. I'm sure. Now, how did nine Days come to
life? No pun intended. Yeah, no, it's it's it was a
burdatory than someone's like it was. It was such a you know I started
writing it. It was like two thousand and fifteen. Yes, it was,
so it was pretty quick actually, and then they were like this first
draft. I wanted to write this kind of like you know, uh,
micro budget movie because I felt like even if people don't you know, invest
money in it, h coorset case in there, just like I do a
Kickstar or something, and they just making myself. So I felt like,
yeah, I'm gonna write something that I can produce with like a interact with
like one hundred k or something like that. Sure, and they will It
took me like a I think one month or something after I figure out when
I want to write about one love to just for sure that all the thoughts
that I had, And then after that took me like three or four months
just to you know, bride the pages. And so it was more like
four months and two I had like a rough first draft, and then I
got to the Sunless Labs. And after the labs, it just started working
on that script for like a year and a half two years or something like
that. And then from then I just like start just like meeting producers and
and the and from from that all it was like it was something that was
just wasn't just me, it was some something, something took something took over
the project at that point. Yeah. Yeah, mostly was mean because it
was a would be the person just doing like most of the you know,
try to sell tragic and stupideh I give you money your stuff like that.
But it was and then people were just like be on my side. Yeah,
yeah, give money to something. Yeah, he's he's a good he's
a good film. It's okay, give him some money, give us money.
He's gonna do it. He's not gonna lose it all, It'll be
fine. It's always I always, I love I love talking to filmmakers about
getting the money for their projects, because I don't care who you are.
Everyone's got to hustle. Everyone's got to hustle to get there, to get
their financing. There's very few directors who don't hustle to get their finance,
especially for your first film. But when watching that film, but watching the
movie, I can see that it could have easily been done for one hundred
thousand dollars. You know, it was you know, control locations. I
mean, obviously not as grand a scale, but you could have push Come
to Shove made an independent version of that without question. We're talking so much
about the film, let's can you tell us to the audience what this film
is about. Yeah, this is such a weird we'll be to pitch,
but I practiced a lot. So this movie is about this interviewer. It
happens in this This is a distant reality. I don't call like you know,
it's a it's just a local fire. And then in the same vein
of movies like Eternal Sunshiny, Spotless Mine or Her, and and then there's
this like a reality which is kind of a pre life reality. As a
call, it's a before life reality. And there's like this interviewer whose name
is will in interview souls to choose one soul for the privilege of being born.
And the process, you know, takes like nine days to be concluded.
And during these nine days you just get you know, talk to the
souls, knowing them better. We'll be right back after a word from our
sponsor and now back to the show. And then by the end of the
processes just pick one. Two people aren't to me where we all uh at
now? So what is your definition of a soul? That's what's an interesting
question. You know. I think it's it's everything that's not uh created through
the environment, you know. I think it's it's things that are innately there
are you know, part of us before we interacted to one another. But
somehow they tell how the interactions, you know, or or how the environment
will shape us just kind of you know, I think scientifically would be or
DNA. But it's interesting, but it's not the DNA because as you can
see, you know, there's so many frames variables. Yeah, there's veryble
but on a but on a spiritual level, what do you think your definition
of a so is if if if I may ask, I think I think
it would be more like the DNA of your personality. It would be the
Danna of your of you was not nothing related to your body as a being,
as a being, as a being, Yeah, as a being?
Is it being? Because I love first of all, I love the casting,
and I loved the variety of ages, the ages, the the the
the colors. It was like a rainbow. Its fantastic to watch. But
I love that, you know, some of the souls that came in for
the interviews were older, some were younger, uh, and they were all
different personalities. And I found it so interesting that the concept that you know,
a freshly arguably a freshly born soul, which is what I took from
the film that is as a freshly born soul comes in and goes, Okay,
I'm here, I'm going to interview. But if I don't make it,
I just go back into the mix and then hopefully I'll get born against
some other time and maybe another opportunity. But I just love that they all
came in with some with attitude, Some were very pleasing, some wanted to
please, others were very stand off it. It was it was a really
interesting character study. I think it was almost so almost a sociology experience.
Would you agree, yeah, a hundred percent. You know, it was
interesting before I chose to become like advertiser, was like in between like psychology
and sociology. And then I felt like I always want to somehow understanding of
society or even give something back to society or do something for them. But
then but at the same time, I felt like it was I had this
kind of selfish desire of creating, you know, and just like I have
the fun of creating that. At the time, it was just you know,
when with advertising and that, and then later in my life it we
just felt like, yeah, it was so interesting to do something. There
was more like a connecting connected to war people. You know, how I
steal about the environment around us, and it's almost like a sociological study.
And nine Days is more or less like that. It's like how what happens
is or something and why we are the way they are? You know.
It's it's not it's not about like I feel trying to just answer anything,
but it's more about like just raising the questions and like it started discussion which
for me, it was just very very interesting. Yeah. No, the
film definitely starts questions, and it started it asks questions and definitely will start
discussions. I have to ask you, how was it to workshop this at
the Sundance Writer's Lab. Well, the right, Yeah, it was even
broke up a little bit. Yeah, so yeah, how was it?
Yeah? How was it to workshop the film in other script at the at
the screen at the Sundance Writers Lab, which is you know, it was
amazing, Yeah, it was. It was just amazing. It was just
I think since you know, when when I got to uh I got here
in the West, I think I didn't know so much about the Sundance Labs.
But then when I got to know, I just felt like this,
this is this kind of white dream. You know, we want to to
being board and you know, selected to to just workshop the script with like
the amazing ventors and they give you feedback and something interesting. It's not just
about the feedback and how you know, you meet them and they give you
like notes, but it's more about the environment, you know, It's more
about It's interesting because like like my movie, you know, the whole process
is very almost like spiritual. It's it's like a bunch of people who are
there, you know, isolated, and the rule number one is just like,
let's not here listen to the industry. Now we're here, we want
to do something that's human, you know, something that makes the difference,
something that you know it's you or you you you know, and let's just
forget what other people you know are saying. Just find the reason for why
you're telling your stories and why it's important. And then we after finish this,
we just go and and start just like you know, pitching it.
So it was interesting because the whole place, the who arm and process so
much about learning how to be vulnerable, learn learning how to be personal,
learning out to you know, their own stories, but not just by you
know, telling story for the sake of telling stories, because it has how
so to do with how can we help you with the craft in order to
you to tell the story. So it was it was just like a perfect
environment for me, like a personal but also very technical too. It's like
going to Tibet with a monk. It sounds like it's like it's your yours.
You're completely walled off from the rest of the world. It's a whole
bunch of other monks. They're teaching you how to meditate in the in the
craft of storytelling, like you know, I don't know if you watch like
Cobra Kai, of course it's of course, I mean it's more like the
Nyagy do you know when and Hollywood is more like a later you came just
after you go to Yago do you can go to you know, Cobraka and
see like, oh, this is the script that I brought from Yang Doors.
Just such a that's such an amazing analogy of Biaggy Do versus Cobra Kit.
It's and I think, like we I'm doing advertising for the Cobra but
I'm sinking now that the new season we got to learn that both of them
need each other, which at the end of the day is true because Hollywood
does need the independent story, and the independent story needs the infrastructure of Hollywood.
Because all of our great at all of our great directors and writers,
they all they all start somewhere, you know, they all start with their
independent films, generally speaking, before they don't just generally come out the gate
with one hundred million dollars, striking first tracking hard. Wow, we're going
right, We're going deep down the cover type's let's go back to nine days.
That's so funny, all right, Still, can you to explain if
you can tell us to kind of take a step by step. So you
you're done at the at the Sundance Lab, you finish the script, you
meet a few producers, and then you basically just go out into the world
and just start looking for financing and money to try to put this project together.
Yeah, how long did that? What was that project? Like?
What was that process? Like it how long did it take you to do?
Oh? Yeah, it was so it was interesting. Right after the
so the sundst laps, I just went back to you know, went to
my desk and then just start writing writing, right, So yeah, okay,
now we're ready to just go out to my managers, and you know,
my team just like started saying out to producers and Sundance as well.
It's interesting because I was done with Sundance, but sunlsces never you know,
done with you. They they always warn you. So and then like for
for the next like months that we just started saying script and just start carrying
like producers. So I think during one year I started just like working with
producer for one year but it's more client you know, find investors and people
who would be interested. At the same time, it's just hard for you,
as you know, a first time director to get like money because the
way they want to do it, they want to do like, you know,
more of with more resources. And and when I when I wanted to
do when it wroll, okay, I do like under K, but they
wanted to do with war more than und K. So so when you started
like asking investors, we were very interested, but as well, but they
were also like, you know, yeah, we like his vision and all
this stuff, but who would play you know, this character? Always that
Yeah, that was the time when we just started going introducing the script two
actors and having meetings and uh, you know from I think that it was
like during one year and and then a couple of months later just having conversations
the cast and we have like a amazing cast. Directors were ready like in
the beginning of the process of us kid gallery and uh and and and and
and just uh and just oh my god, I we have to readit which
went what part our our cat cast? Directors? Yeah, directors, and
we just like we just we just started just staying all this could to everyone,
and and and then the actors were so you know, uh receptive to
the script. And and from that we just you know, uh when when
people say that, yeah, once you know, play this this role and
everything, we we we just like went back to the arrestlers and the like,
yeah, we just go out you know, oh yes, yeah.
I mean after that cast I would invest to. I mean, it was
a heck of a cast that you got put together there. I mean,
it's an actor's dream. This, this script is an actor's dream. All
the parts, even the small parts, have so much meat in them that
most actors would love to play that part. And then and I forgot his
name, but the will who plays the lead. We'll be right back for
a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show us. Yes,
he's he's gonna get He better get a nomination for Best Actor. I
mean he he was a tour de force performance. I was just I was,
I was enchanted, enthralled with him. He just he has such a
presence. Generally he's a very large man. From Black Panther and from US
he's a very large man. But his presence because he wasn't I mean,
he was a little bit there was. There were moments where he showed his
physicality in the movie, but he was normally just very quiet, very gentle,
and he still just had such presence. And when you start mixing in
all these other actors, I mean, what was it like for you as
a first time filmmaker, for that first time filmmaker, the first time feature
filmmaker, to have a cast like this. What did you feel like going
on the set for the first day or the table read the first day,
Like what are the nerves? What are like? How did you approach this
process? Yeah? No, it was amazing. Just not not remember then,
just yeah, both both guests rects with Jessica Kelly and Kid Gallery.
They did an amazing job. They did an amazing ever did yeah, they
did it ready job. So yeah, it was it was. It was
an amazing process. Just like you know, she's stayed one we we're just
talking to It was fair surreal because it was my first teacher and just having
this you know, uh a miss actors with you and and I remember like
being having all those you know, actors and the table read and like they
just reading their lines and adding like so much, you know, to to
to the work. They put in the page. And it was interesting because
I think the beginning there's so much like a collaborative process, and for me
it was like, okay, I wrote those those lines and those stages.
But it was interesting that every oh, you know, person in the team,
they just like brought like different you know interpretations for who who the characters
were, you know. And even for example, Wisdom, he didn't want
to play the character was with the depressive guy, you know, like who
is always like one saying no, and so he was always trying to find,
you know, what's what's the what's the happiness behind well, what's what's
what's going on in and not in a way that he's just like this one
old person, but just try and find more of his humanity. And and
like some other characters, like the souls, had like deep discussions in a
way like how so how they're gonna you know, interact with how they're gonna
and they're gonna like interact with the world surrounding them. And then because since
they're all souls, one couldn't just like you know, look at water and
say like, oh my god, this is water I never tasted before.
And the other ones just be like bless a bold water. It's like,
oh, cool water. But they they would need you with some kind of
you know saying uh, you know thing kind of energy towards things around it.
So we have like deep discussions about how would they you know, act,
and everyone had like reading great ideas in a way because it was pretty
much like experimental work if you think of it. People who don't have any
even backgrounds or beast and when we have just find what, you know,
how they would react to the world else, you know, outside What was
the hardest day on set for you where you were just like, oh my,
because we all have it like we're on set, there's that day,
there's that something that happens. We're just like, how are we going to
make it through this? There's always something, So what was the hard day
for you? I think was we hadn't we didn't have a lot of days
to shoot, so it was like we had twenty three days to shoot everything
like the pace photography and I remember especially like the less Wishes, the bicycle
and all stuff so beautiful. It doesn't it's just one page in script or
have bit, but kind of they take like that a day. But we
we we we didn't have a lot of days. So I remember we we
just shot like the bicycle, you know, the beach thing. Everyone said,
yoh, this is great. It's amazing that the bicycle as well.
But and then I had this conversation when the producers uh as like producers and
was you know, doing all the gadeling, saying we're not going to finish
this, you know, and we're behind, We're behind, we can't make
it happen. And it was interesting because we wouldn't because later we got some
more Dave, but it was kind of tough to just like we were we
were filming something that really felt really special, but we kind of and I
got it, we can't we can't make it, you know. And uh
and it was a day that everything kind of went really uh didn't go right,
you know, and the projection and all stuff. It was just like
a different, very difficult, you know, thing to handle. So it
was kind of a I always had this feeling like, oh, we're doing
some thing special here, but I'm not going to be able to finish.
Oh yeah, and that day was the representation of that fear. Yeah listen,
I mean, I mean, I'm sure Francis for Gopola felt the same
way through Apocalypse. Now, Uh, I mean, I mean that's I
mean, look two and a half years in the jungle. I mean,
but we all always I think, I don't I don't know that. It
doesn't matter what what level you are as and as a filmmaker, there are
those days that you want to have your vision put up there, but the
realities of filmmaking it's not easy. And when I saw those scenes with the
second you said, well, the scenes with with the wishes, I was
like, oh, yeah, I looked at those scenes and like, those
don't look easy to shoot. There's a lot of stuff going on, the
projection, the light, the water. There was a yeah, it didn't
seem easy, but yeah, that was Those are so beautifully shot too.
Oh and the music, the music, the music was wonderful. How did
you how did you find the sound for this film? Yeah? Always being
like a huge fan of Antonio Antonio Pinto. I don't know if you're familiar
with his work, but he you work on the Central Station, Seat of
God. He working all those you know, amazing prosil and you know and
movies and and I remember his friend of you know, he was working with
a friend of mine and then got introduced to him and it was amazing.
Antonio is pretty much like the representation of genius. You know, he's very
cool guy. We just feels like he's just you know, concerned about the
of the year and just all of a sudden, you just come with something
that you know, it's amazing. It was working with them during a pre
production and most of the songs decomposed before we started photography because he needing the
songs before we shooting the girl playing the violin, which thought like before I
started past photography, and it was and first it was just like, yeah,
let's just camp something like stamp, you know, you compose and then
later you just composed something you know, worl elaborate for the rest of the
movie. But the solos were so good that they were just kept kept those
songs and started just composing, you know, songs based on that that that
main song. It was just like you know, having skype meanings like the
same way we're having out. It was just like, yeah, let me
play something to you, you know, and it was just like getting your
his instrument or something and just like yeah, and then he say said,
yeah, I don't know about that it would just like play something else and
it was just like, oh, yeah, that's exactly. So it was.
It was just like an amazing work and verse. No, I love
the aesthetic of what you did with the film, the production design, with
the vintage everything being vintage, which was such a lovely touch. It wasn't
super sci fi or or anything like that. It was all vintage and all
those vintage TVs representing souls lives. But I have to ask you, how
the hell did you shoot all of all that footage for all the souls that
are constantly like how did you shoot? Was that during production or was that
after production? Production? Yeah, pre production almost everything was kind of name
here because it was I was planning, you know, all the the shoot
and all the stuff and doing everything prep and then later the day it would
just like the picture locking, you know, the the stuff, and we
would shoot like during nine days, like the main thing that would go on
to TVs. And then after that we were just like started like the heavy
pro production for print photography, but it would still be adding picture locking the
stuff that would go on the TV during like Prince photography. So it was
it was crazy, and we shot in Utah most of the stuff. But
also we just firm them out, like like shining in Brazil in La So
most of the stuff that you saw, they were all yeah, it was
all practical onset too. Most of them were practical on set. But then
there's some you know, Taylor, some TVs were not like the hero TVs.
It's called that. They then they were like, uh, comped great,
yeah they were comped in afterwards. No, it was it was beautiful.
I just loved the analog aspect of everything that Will was riding constantly in
the filing cabinet and all that stuff. It was what made by the way,
what made you come up with that idea of vintage as opposed to the
Because something like this you could easily have gone sci fi much more sci fi
esque. So what made you do the whole vintage vibe? I think that
there's so much about the word and the ceiling that I want people to have
is it was more so much connected to, you know, the nostalgic feeling
past, and then it's it's hard for me like what represents my past and
where presents like my you know, my you know, we'll be right back
after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show, uh
years ago, it would be like the eighties. You know, there was
one white child that happened happened, So I knew that would need something like
that, and I knew it wouldn't have to be like technological like you know
X marchin or you know, So that's one way. It would be nice
to have like this kind of very and then this texture of like wood in
this structure of like glass and not like you know, iPads or iPods or
anything like that. And then it created this kind of cost of that.
I imagine that Will got in prisoned during the time period when he died,
so like he wouldn't see anything in this house as kind of a goal that
comes after, so he wouldn't be leading in this eighties. You know,
a lot of time period for the recipe in existence. It's like stuck into
it. Will Will Will ever become alive again? I don't know, I
don't Yeah, I wish you know that's the sequel. There'll be ten days
now. So okay, so you've you've made this beautiful film. Yeah,
you you put it all together, have great cast grapes, and then you
send it out to the festivals and you get the phone call that every filmmaker,
independent filmmaker wants to get, which is the call from Sundance. What
was that phone call like for you? It was amazing, you know,
and it was such a we're we're so working such a time, very short,
you know, amount of time with schedule because we we shot in September.
We finished shooting September, and we just had to edit and finish everything
like a cut to sentence to get into the you know, to screen in
the festival like January. So it was like very very rush. And remember
there's so much in terms of pressure and stuff. Yeah it comes from the
last but it's not you know, not that some films you know, from
the laps day screen Sundance best way. And I remember it was just so
stressed, like how I M I knna make it or not. It was
just in the gym. And that you know, someone who actually was someone
who went to USC with me, who called me to give me the good
news and yeah, yeah she she started working a sundance and stuff. And
it was even job when I started working sundances, like yeah, maybe one
day you just gonna give me a call or that my film was accept or
do the Q and A and everything just let me know and give me the
call, and it just like started Yela and screaming. It is like,
God, don't believe it. And it's interesting because during the festival she was
one of the uh the the organizers who didn't like K and A, which
was very cool. So it was almost like yeah, so it was very
very very very special. Man. It was it was just like my connection
with Sundance our uh it was my dream you know, uh becoming Alumli and
then a dream going to the Fast Winding and and now we you know,
they're they're always so supportive, they love the movie, you know, and
I really still like they're they're kind of my family. So it was it
was great just to there like this very you know, day face and just
being screening with other people some very where and where did did you screen at
the Echoes? Screened at the Echoes? What was what was that? It
was? It was terrible, like it was I just couldn't, you know,
my stomach not doing well and there was none of my actors watched the
movie before the screen so and everyone want to stole pump. There is so
much hype and people all, this is gonna be great. It's gonna be
I don't know, and no one watched it, so we didn't know what
would be the reaction is such a different movie, right, so we don't
know. And it was interesting. I remember remember going to the basketball and
super nervous, and and then I met Tony Hill there and just said,
yeah, don't don't don't let don't let what happens you know out there they
find who you are, you know, and that that was very nice.
You know, that was something that I think got care for the rest of
my career. It's like you he was, yeah, because short him like
we did something special, We did something that was and what they say is
just like you know, can control whatever and just go there and and but
luckily you know that people we had like an standing ovation for like at all
how many minutes people are just crying. People just came to talk to us,
and and it was it was it was very special. I'm not going
to give the ending away, but I teared up. I teared up when
I watched it. I was just like because I didn't see it coming.
I didn't see it coming until maybe until probably probably about four or five minutes
before it happened, was like, wait a minute, could that? I'm
like, oh my god, that's still then, So I didn't catch it
right away. So that's always something fun because I've seen so many movies in
my life. It's hard to get one past the goalie in many ways with
plots, and that was a really nice touch. But oh yeah, I
definitely tear it up after I watched it. It was it was great.
The one thing I love about the whole story and the concept is that we
as human beings are always defining our happiness by the goals that we set,
Like, you know, we're going to get married. I'll be happy when
I'm married. I'll be happy when I get that job. I'll be happy
when I get the sun dance, I'll be happy when I and and your
story is like, well, the goal is just to get here, which
is which is an interesting way of looking at it because so many of us
are born into this world and we think that another in anyways, your film
says you won, You're here, Now what are you going to do with
it? Is the question? Yeah, yeah, no, ndred percent isn't
you see? Because it comes from the you know, the genesis of this
work or less coming from like going through like some hard times and and and
and feeling like it you know this this I'm kind of hating what I'm going
through. But what if? What if this is something just by being here,
something that's a privilege, you know, And then it'd be so much
about like the uh trying to aim at some goals and say like when when
this happens, I will you know? And for really it was the same
because I remember being advertising and working advertising was just like when I when I
win the Gold Liar, I will, you know? And I remember like
exactly the feeling of winning it and then remember like being on the stage and
saying yeah great and people like, oh congratulations, and when it stept out
and just when I when I went back home, I just felt like what
does it means? Meaning thing or something? And it wasn't And I think
it was one of the moments that I felt like, yeah, maybe I
shouldn't do something else, which was interesting. Yeah, there's so many times
that we put so much emphasis on a goal, and when you get that
goal, there's depression afterwards because you've worked all your life. So people like
I want the Oscar, I want the Oscar, And I've spoken to people
who won the Oscar who's just like, after the Oscar, I'm like,
I was depressed, like where do you? Where do you when you get
to the top of the mountain? Where do you go? Because if your
goal of life is to get to the top of the mountain, but the
goal of life should be enjoying the ride up to the top of the mountain
and also walking back down and going back up to another mountain and all that
kind of stuff. So that's a that's a really yeah, And I'm glad
that you had that experience because if I just had the goal in line,
look, I got it. Hell, what do I do? What do
I do now? I'm not eighty five, so my life is not over
yet. What do I do now? And it's crazy they didn't have to
sell this, you know. I went back to Brazil and it'saw like what
do I do now? Because it was pretty much like, this is my
I want to make my first feature. Then I made my first feature,
you know, and now then we'll go to theaters and all this stuff.
And then I say, yeah, and what's what's the what's the point now?
What's theirs? So what's the next? Yeah, what's next when you
when you put all the energy in in like goals, because then if they
you know, happen or don't happen, it's just like so much about about
it. If it's very interesting that you brought up about the maybe we read
achieved the goal, right exactly. We're just so caught up in in this
physical reality that we don't understand that we're like, it's a pleasure, it's
an honor just to be here. It's kind of like, I'm honored just
to be nominated. I mean, it's it's nice to win, but I'm
honored just to be nominated, you know. So no one says that like
I'm not I'm not to be alive, Yeah, exactly, but most people.
But the thing is that right now as we're speaking, certain there's there's
people right now as we speaking leaving this earth, and as we're speaking,
new souls are coming in. So I promise you that people who are leaving
many wish that they continue to have the honor of living. So it should
be something that people, you know, hopefully take away from this film that
this isn't it really is an honor just to be nominated until it's time and
until the security escorts you out. Now you know you've ridden this amazing movie
about the soul's journey. Why do you think we are here? As you
know? Why do you I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, because
after this movie, I would love to hear what you think. I have
no idea, you know, it's just yeah, it's interesting. I don't
know. Sometimes I sometimes I know, I'm pretty sure you know right as
a meaning you know, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show, because I'm pretty much like a half of
we and Emma. You know, at some moments, I feel like,
yeah, some moments, I just feel like, yeah, this doesn't make
any sense, and I think it's just for me. It's just like this,
and I think it's gonna be for the rest of my life. Like
there's many or that meaning, there's many or that meaning there's some purpose or
not purpose. So it's hard for me. Just it's interesting because people come
to me and say, like, oh, you wrote that movie about you
know, enjoying the war and stuff, and then there's this day. It
was just someone was telling me like, oh, lot, how the sunset
is amazing. That's not right. It's it's not and it's not the it's
not the Avengers about it, not joking. Yeah, but it's interesting because
so there's some moments that I feel like, yeah, there's there's that,
there is pressure, that's kind of energy, and there is like many and
that, and there there's some some always that just feel very you know,
sitting you know, both things things, but that but that is that's the
upside, that's the up and debt. But but isn't that the up and
down of life? Though? I Mean there's days that you like, you're
on top of the world, and other days you're like, oh god,
I forgot to pay that bill now my car got repossessed or something, and
you're just like and the thing you do is that you're being very optimistic because
usually really worth Oh I'm being very kind. Yeah yeah, it could be
yeah, it could be like a million different things that could happen. It
is, but that is this crazy thing that we call life. Now,
I'd love to have I'd love to ask this one question of you. What
do you think your soul's purposes on this on this journey, what you think
you're here to do for you know, for your not only for yourself,
but for other people, because this film is for other people, no question
about it, not only just for yourself. I think. I remember,
but there's a moment in my life I felt like very you know, lonely
in a way that it was like I think there's no isolating in a way
that I was. I felt like it was all by myself, you know,
there's no one would and it felt terrible. It was in a way
that I felt like this, it's so disconnected from everyone and everything, you
know. And I remember I came up with this and there's a writing I
started thing and it was interesting because especially after writing nine days, I put
a lot of those feelings on the page and how isolated felt, how desperate
it felt, how you know, out of hope I felt. And then
now people who felt the same coming to me and telling like, oh,
I felt the same way. You know, Oh, is this is something
that I also win true, you know, and and and and somehow it's
like so powerful, like I I by showing that, you know, it
felt that way, it can make people not feel alone, you know,
because it kind of shared the same feeling. So it was it was interesting
that I think if I can do anything, you know, look that your
is so much about uh putting it out and uh and letting people like me
know that they're not alone, and and that way, I'm also going to
figure figure out that I'm not alone tohoot. So I think that's that's something
that that there wants to do. That's that's a great, great answer,
because there's so many souls or people in this world to feel alone, whether
it be in their professional lives and their personal lives. And I think that's
what that's the magic of movies when you watch a character going through something and
you go, oh, I'm out alone. And that's the brilliance of what
we do as filmmakers. And I think you definitely nailed it with nine Days,
my friend. That would I ask you. I appreciate it, And
I'm gonna ask you a few questions. Ask all my guests, what advice
would you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today. Don't try
to break into business, I think, just don't think of danger. I
think the same thing that we were we're discussing here about the goal and trying
just that. I think it would just tell the story you want to tell
in something that's not there, you want to see me and then things will
happen in the consequence, you know. And just you know, keep keep
doing stuff and and and also don't put your your you know, hopes and
other people. So maybe if you write something it's very personally, just writ
in a way that you can do yourself, so you don't don't let your
dreams in the hands with other people. Just okay, so you know one
does it? Just do my things right. And so so writing writing a
script that could be done for one hundred thousand dollars or could be done for
ten million, Yeah, that's the idea, because if you'll be waiting for
ten years for that ten million if it doesn't work. Yeah, And it
just name dropping that there actually was an advice that a Quinting trying tune give
to me. I mention him because they won a competition like a wileble.
It was before coming to West twenty twelve. I did like a short and
then I had changes to sit with him for like thirty minutes and then yeah,
it was amazing. And then I asked him for advice and he said
like, yeah, it's pretty much like it was telling me to do the
same that he did with reserve for dogs, because he would make reserve dogs
with like I think, forty thousand dollars. Yeah, and you could have
it, you decrid it. Yeah. So the same way I wrote million
days, I couldn't make nine days with like one hundred k or something,
you know. And I think there came now is the new version of forty
thousand dollars, but with all the inflation and stuff. But then I was
lucky like him, you know, to find people invest. But if even
if you know, I didn't find people choosing on invest in my dream,
I would say, Okay, screw it up. I just gotta make them
move anyway. So I think that was that was a great advice that I
just passed for I'm trying to look cool, but I have to admit it's
not It's not bad advice to pass forward from a from a little from a
little known director like Winter. Yeah. Now, what is the lesson that
took you the longest to learn, whether in the film industry or in life.
Uh, it's still a lesson I haven't learned yet. I think it's
too uh, leaving more in the moment. The same way that Emma leaves
in the moment and just enjoy the ride in the way that you know.
I think Nine Days the movie to remind me of that as well, because
there's a part of me that, yes, can you can enjoy the moment,
but there's someone so many you know, it's moments there's hard to you
know, be past into practicing and I feel like that's the happiness is pretty
much that, you know. I think that three is just being able to
just they accept things as they come and and being you know, good with
what's life's giving you, and not always they can do that. I think
I'm getting better, but that's something that I'm still learning. I've learned.
I've learned so where you're talking about it is almost becoming a spiritual master,
because that's what spiritual like yogis do that like whatever comes to them, they
just kind of like life is good and that's what we all try to get
to. Not even nothing is good, but they just accept it. Yeah,
there's an acceptance life sucks sometimes, but it's just like they're accepted.
Yeah, a lot of a lot of times life sucks. I think that's
Uh, don't use that as your marketing for the film. Sometimes life just
sucks, but sometimes it's just amazing, and I think the combination is right
and it's yeah, and it wouldn't be amazing if it didn't suck before.
So it's almost like, yeah, so you need I mean, if you,
if you, if you were, if you just kept hitting home runs
all the time, it would be boring. And all them movies are like
that. You know, someone is like struggling and stuff and then nets to
see and oh cool, it's great, but you need the struggle. But
you need the struggle you need or else it is. It's a horrible story.
If yeah, if if if Luke knew the force at the beginning?
What's the Boy as bad as? Yeah? Chris? And what are three
of your favorite films of all time? Oh? My god? It was
writing a list right now, So I have to put the Matrix on my
top three as well, Sir. I love I love this movie. I
love City Lights, Charlie Chopling movie. I love that movie too. He's
so good man. The other one, I'm I want to put it like
a yeah, I have seven s and I have a can put the earrings
of his hore But yeah, I'm so American man. I'm putting all this
I had to match the Future. There's nothing wrong with that. We're not
talking about movies that influenced me as a director, but more as movies that
you know, reflect my childhood. I think those movies are movies there.
Yeah, I have to put it's a bit. Back to the Future is
one of the most perfect films of all time. I know, I just
wanted to, you know, sound a little more art. No, don't
I know that people are like I don't know, Citizen Kane and Seventh Samurai
really like I had a friend of who every time I would tell my movies
and back to you for though, you would just kind of, you know,
be a little more like snobby. He would be snobbybby. Yeah.
And then of course I love, you know, love the Seventh Seal and
love you know, No, I mean, look, I love Seventh Samurai,
I love High Low and love I love a lot of Kubrick's you know
films. But you know, but if Back to the Futures on, yeah,
I'm watching it, you know, if the Matrix on, I'm watching
to I think more than plenty of time, you like to second one of
the best. When I was a kid I loved their video facts. Oh
my god, the future of the field. Oh god, yeah, yeah,
we can geek out. We can geek out about that. And uh
and and when is the movie coming out? And where can people see it?
So yeah, it's already no, actually it's out in the late in
New York. But now it's coming out to a nationwide uh this Friday,
this Friday, Yeah, Friday. Yeah, we'll watching. That's awesome.
Listen. I congratulations on the film. Uh. And I wish you nothing
but continued success on your journey, my friend, You're you're doing good work
here. Uh and and and I really do help, I really do hope
it. It not only entertains people, but makes people think a little bit
about being just honored to be nominated. Yeah, why you're not even nominated?
Well, if you're not ever nominated, then you go out and what
happens to the souls? Happens to the souls? You know, I'm not
gonna ruin it, but that's when. That's why is when you're not nominated.
That's true, My friend, thank you so much for being on the
show. I guess I'll last man. I appreciate it. I want to
thank Edson for coming on the show and sharing his journey with us. I
really appreciate it. I implore everybody to go out and watch Nine Days cinematically.
It is stunning. It is beautifully shot, beautifully acted, beautifully written,
and really does the job of what a good movie is meant to do,
which is pull on your emotions and make you feel something. So if
you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, including
how to watch Nine Days, head over to the show notes act Bulletproof Screenwriting
dot TV Forward slash three seventy three. Thank you so much for listening,
guys, As always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to
you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.