WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.080 The streets has now picked up our content. Coinbase distributes our contents, and 2 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:09.679 we would not have been able to grow this quickly if not for our decentralized 3 00:00:09.679 --> 00:00:15.039 community of supporters who have minted NFTs to help power everything that we're doing right 4 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:24.320 now. And this content is brought to you by v chain, which is 5 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:30.760 a leading enterprise grade Layer one public blockchain spearheading a digital revolution from a sustainable, 6 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:36.200 highly scalable smart contract platform. The v chain blockchain has many unique features, 7 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:40.880 which makes it an ideal choice for Web three applications. V chain is 8 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:46.840 working with many great enterprises such as PWCGVONCI, BMW, and Walmart China. 9 00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:53.320 Most recently, they partnered with the Boston Consulting Group to build a revolutionary decentralized 10 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:58.159 application ecosystem. I'm a big believer in this project. I have been since 11 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:02.399 twenty eighteen. I've been a VET token holder for years, and this blockchain 12 00:01:02.439 --> 00:01:07.560 is highly scalable, great with security and speed, and it has low energy 13 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:11.920 consumption. If you'd like to learn more about v chain, please visit vchain 14 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:15.079 dot org. Link will be in a description. Welcome to the Thinking Crypto 15 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:21.000 podcast. You're home for cryptocurrency news and interviews with me today is Zach Guzman, 16 00:01:21.079 --> 00:01:23.599 who's the founder of Trustless Media. Zach, great to have you on, 17 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:26.439 TONI thanks so much for having me on, man, I'm excited to 18 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:30.920 chat. Yeah. Look, it's an exciting day. Bigcoin is pumping, 19 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:34.519 it's over fifty seven thousand. You guys are doing great things, So lots 20 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:37.319 to talk about. But let's start with your background. You know, where 21 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:42.040 are you from and what's your professional background? Yeah, my background's in traditional 22 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:48.879 media. So basically my entire professional career has been bouncing around big media outlets, 23 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.599 whether it's CNBC, Yahoo, Finance, climbing the ranks of starting out 24 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:56.799 as a lowly intern and making it all the way to the comfy anchor seat. 25 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.519 So that's kind of my worldview is all through the traditional media lens and 26 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:05.079 have gotten to cover a lot of great stories, a lot of things in 27 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:08.560 financial media and eventually started to go down the rabbit hole as you've done in 28 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:14.319 crypto and just got sucked into the wild world of web three and now here 29 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:17.159 we are trying to build out a better way for media and creators to build 30 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:22.680 with their audiences. And I'm applying everything that I learned basically in the broken 31 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:27.199 media model of yesteryear to what could potentially be the future for creators now. 32 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:30.719 Yeah, absolutely, and that's why I wanted to have you on, because 33 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:35.039 you're bridging that gap between media and web three and I'm very curious as to 34 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:38.000 what you guys are building and all the great things that are laying ahead in 35 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:42.759 your roadmap. But before we go further, what was your first encounter of 36 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:46.439 bitcoin and what was your aha moment? Yeah, I was back in twenty 37 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:52.919 fourteen. I was graduating. My brother actually gifted me half a bitcoin as 38 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:57.759 a graduation presence, and he said, look, I'm going to give you 39 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:00.919 this, but you can't touch it for three years, and I basically forgot 40 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:04.360 about it because of that, and then sure enough in the Big Bowl run, 41 00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:07.400 I was like, wait a minute, that three hundred dollars gift is 42 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:10.840 worth thousands of dollars now. And you know, my brother has never let 43 00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:15.159 me forget that. But when it happened in twenty eighteen, it basically sparked, 44 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:17.520 you know, a huge curiosity on all right, I want to learn 45 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:22.199 more about bitcoin, and then opened my eyes to the rest of crypto and 46 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:25.280 then, as you know, the pump continued basically from there was just like 47 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:29.400 this, this is the future and I need to cover this. And at 48 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:31.800 CNBC tried to get a crypto show off the ground. It was too early 49 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:37.039 for them, didn't happen, got laughed out of the room basically, and 50 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:40.000 then you know, later on things died in crypto. My interest kind of 51 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:43.680 was like, Okay, that was fun. But then NFTs came back and 52 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:46.400 it unlocked a whole new world of you know, I looked at it through 53 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:50.560 the lens of bitcoin, go up number, go up investing, and then 54 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:54.080 the cultural unlock that came with NFTs basically blew my mind for an entirely new 55 00:03:54.120 --> 00:04:00.240 way to incentivize anything on the Internet. And it's been super exciting. See 56 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:04.840 the cultural piece now happen in this cycle. And that's that's kind of how 57 00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:09.120 I got in. Mostly how everyone else gets in is you saw what bitcoin 58 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:13.960 can unlock here with just digital money, and then from there what blockchains can 59 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:17.279 do for almost any industry blew my mind. That's amazing, and you and 60 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:21.399 your brother would be considered ogs. I mean twenty fourteen, right, So 61 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:25.879 I got to ask because your brother like a bitcoin millionaire or something like that. 62 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:29.000 No, because he and I are both very similar in that we get 63 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:31.199 distracted easily. So you know, we were there, and you know, 64 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:34.120 it's I think there are a lot of people that have that story right where 65 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:36.959 it's like, Okay, this is huge, and we saw the potential but 66 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:41.759 also kind of somewhat risk averse, and so you just, you know, 67 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:44.240 you put in what you can put in at the time. And like I 68 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:46.079 said, starting out as a lowly intern in the media world, it's not 69 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:49.920 like I had a lot to put into anything beyond a gift. So you 70 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:54.240 know, I beat myself up, as I think everybody does looking back hindsight 71 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:58.839 twenty twenty. But no, I don't think he is necessarily a bitcoin millionaire, 72 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:00.480 nor am I. But you know, applying a lot of those learnings 73 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:04.920 to the next quote unquote bitcoin or the next thing, right is kind of 74 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:08.480 what you know, you do a great job of. And I think when 75 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:11.399 a lot of content creators in this space try to do, which is what 76 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:15.240 are the lessons we learned, how do we help you prevent making those yourself? 77 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:17.639 And you know, how can we apply those learnings to the next project 78 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:21.759 and figure out kind of where this industry in space is moving to Really capitalize 79 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:27.319 on the next big opportunity. Yeah, absolutely, So tell us about trust 80 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:30.000 this media. What do you guys, what's your vision and what what are 81 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:33.439 you trying to achieve? Yeah, so trust Us is born out of what 82 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:38.759 I think has become increasingly clear if you listen to Elon Musk, or if 83 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:43.319 you just listen to any of the news headlines around media layoffs, and you 84 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:47.759 know the model being broken. Basically, we started trust lists with the idea 85 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:55.639 of applying web three two media. It was how can this technology be used 86 00:05:55.639 --> 00:06:00.399 to help leverage a creator's shared passion with their fans. We started in the 87 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:03.079 crypto space to trust is Media's first show is Coinage. It's community owned. 88 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:06.040 The whole idea and the whole model is what can you do if you let 89 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:12.720 your fans co own something with you from idea to creation and then beyond. 90 00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:15.480 So with Coinage, it's a crypto media outlet that lets our NFT holders both 91 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:19.639 own Coinage and also influence what we cover the guests we have on the show. 92 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:24.279 And now we just announced this but can also stake with Coinage. Now 93 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:28.560 we're partnering to run our own validators, which again is just really trying to 94 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:31.519 break down the wall between a content creator I EME and the fans we've been 95 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:36.120 able to attract by just publishing stories in Crypto, and we've done I think 96 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:40.240 a pretty good job of winning awards with the content we've put out, mostly 97 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:44.600 focused on video, and now trust this is building an entirely separate show that 98 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:46.800 has nothing to do with Crypto that's actually in the food space called Bestischever. 99 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:50.560 But we'll apply the same model, which will let those creators which are huge 100 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:56.120 names, you know, some of them are Top Chef Season whatever finalists, 101 00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:00.680 and we'll basically let their fans who love food would co own that brand with 102 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:05.199 them. And so it's again a whole new model for media. We've been 103 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:09.360 able to attract big media names like the co founder of Netflix is one of 104 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:13.480 our backers as well, and I think that's really cool and cool signal to 105 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:15.879 see, Okay, this might be something here. What can you do when 106 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:19.639 on this new era of the Internet if you break down that wall and realign 107 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:25.439 incentives, can something actually grow quicker and avoid this idea of having to go 108 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:29.319 down the traditional studio model, where you know, if the big exacs don't 109 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:31.759 agree with your idea, it's never going to get green lid. Absolutely, 110 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:38.439 I love it because to your point, we're seeing a change a power what 111 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:42.439 do you call a paradigm shift is what I'm trying to say. With media 112 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:46.920 and how people consume content and the advent of networks, and now you have 113 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:53.439 blockchain networks where people can participate and become owners. And now you guys are 114 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:57.240 taking it to media, you know, outside of a social platform, outside 115 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:00.920 of holding a token. But I can have a say, I can have 116 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:05.519 a voice, I can have equity, so to speak. Tell us about 117 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:11.160 the logistics of the getting the NFT, which block chains it's on, and 118 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:13.720 how the ideas I can Let's say I'm an NFT holder, how can I 119 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:18.120 send ideas to you guys. Yeah, I think that that's been you know, 120 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:20.639 and I don't take credit for any of this. Really, it's like 121 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:24.279 the idea of web three media started even when I was still back at Yahoo. 122 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:26.279 Right, there are a bunch of experiments. Constitution Dow was kind of 123 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:28.759 the first thing that blew my mind in terms of people on the Internet coming 124 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:33.080 together to put their funds together and do something crazy. When they were trying 125 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:37.639 to buy one of the last replicas of the or the Constitution or whatever it 126 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.759 was, and it's just like, you know, crazy things can happen when 127 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:46.279 people come together to put their you know, energy efforts, money and time 128 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:50.639 into something. And you know what Dow's unlock is community ownership. And so 129 00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:54.559 with Coinage, that was kind of the idea is, you know, I 130 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.399 have relationships in the space, I know some people. I knew Joe Kwan 131 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:01.879 from Tara. That's how we kind of put out our first episode, which 132 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:07.000 did two million views in that episode. But the idea is what could we 133 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:11.440 do if we had a decentralized community of you know, co owners who wanted 134 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:16.559 to also use their network effects. And again, the NFTs constitute membership in 135 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:20.720 co owning Coinage, so there's a vested interest in like making the show better 136 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:26.279 and bringing better guests on and chasing these stories, which again has been really 137 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:31.120 cool because when we launched, these memberships were basically free to unlock our content, 138 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:33.159 and now they're up one hundred and eighty five percent as we've been able 139 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:37.639 to put out more content, get better guests, drive the network effects of 140 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:41.840 all of this. You know, the streets has now picked up our content. 141 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:46.200 Coinbase distributes our content, and we would not have been able to grow 142 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:50.759 this quickly if not for our decentralized community of supporters who have minted NFTs to 143 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:56.519 help power everything that we're doing right now. And so again I don't take 144 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:58.919 a lot of credit for this. I really do think that, you know, 145 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:01.720 it's corny. I interviewed Pitbull when I was still at CNBC and he's 146 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:03.840 like, you know, money can make you happy, you just got to 147 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:07.799 give it away. And I feel like there are creators out there who have 148 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:11.080 been pioneering this in the last wave of innovation on the Internet. When Instagram 149 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:15.600 first started, was just really like all I care about is putting out good 150 00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:18.639 content, honestly, Tony, Like you, you put out great content, 151 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:20.480 and I don't know how you're monetizing or whatever the model is, but it's 152 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:26.960 like people who really want to deliver value to their fans, to their followers. 153 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:30.399 In this era of Web three, there are a lot of new ways 154 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:33.159 to start to unlock those network effects and value there that you know have not 155 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:37.480 been possible, and we're just trying to explore kind of one way. Yeah, 156 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:43.200 absolutely, I love it. So as far as the NFTs are those 157 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:46.840 issued on one blockchain, you are are there on other blockchains and how can 158 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:50.320 folks access those? Yeah, so if you go to Coinage John Media right 159 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:54.639 now, we built this on Ether in twenty twenty two, right so at 160 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.240 the time Layer twos were just getting started, we didn't know which ones were 161 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:00.799 going to be the ones that were going to still be around owns. As 162 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:03.399 Tara showed, a blockchain can implode and then what are you going to do 163 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:07.320 there? I suffered through that as a lot of our you know, community 164 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:13.360 members did as well. But as we expand you know, the way that 165 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:16.639 Coinage is set up is we're a Colorado cooperative, so it's not too dissimilar 166 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.919 from kind of Riis camping store. You go there, you shop, you're 167 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:22.399 a member, and at the end of the year, you can unlock what's 168 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:26.240 called a patronage dividend, which is really a way for that company, for 169 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:31.360 that co op to distribute dividends back to their members. And it's been really 170 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:37.080 cool because there's a bunch of different quote unquote doos And we just spent a 171 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:39.840 year working with lawyers to say, how can we do this legally in the 172 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.799 US, How can we like issue NFTs on a blockchain? So it's all 173 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:50.480 on eth maintenet for Coinage and let them legitimately unlock the upside here as we 174 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:54.799 grow an audience. And so you know, we haven't announced anything obviously, 175 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:58.080 it takes a little bit of time for a media company, again historically not 176 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.200 the most lucrative business to be in, but for a media company to grow 177 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.799 to the size of becoming profitable. But what we've been able to do at 178 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:09.360 Coinage, like we are actually pacing to get that done and to allow our 179 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:13.840 NFT holders to start to unlock dividends if they're active in our dow co op. 180 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:16.639 So that's the model. They're on the main net again everyone can see 181 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:22.000 on Open Sea or mint right now honestly at Coinage dot Media to unlock the 182 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:26.039 ownership in what we're building at Coinage. But it's been exciting because, as 183 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:28.120 I said, to see a rise of one hundred and eighty five percent in 184 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:33.039 our NFTs as they trade to unlock our content is not something I would have 185 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:37.799 expected necessarily. You know, NFTs in general are kind of pressured or have 186 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.799 been until maybe now, and you know, it's it's out of my control, 187 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:43.879 and I think it's a really cool way to start to see, all 188 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:46.240 right, what does the market think about the content we're putting out. What 189 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:50.440 does the market think about where coinage could go? And as I said, 190 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:54.679 to have kind of you know, John wu from Avalanche as one of our 191 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:56.799 first holders and a bunch of other Web three founders and the co founder of 192 00:12:56.840 --> 00:13:03.159 Netflix to be the ones that were there to first has been pretty humbly honestly. 193 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:07.279 Yeah, that's amazing. Congrats on that. Now you mentioned you know 194 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:11.600 this staking, you announced a partnership with DAIC to enable steaking. Tell us 195 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:16.240 how that works and because is it the NFTs that are involved in mistaking or 196 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.159 different chokings. Yeah, so I think this is actually again one of those 197 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:26.559 things that's really cool in the network effects that happened here because they're an Austrian 198 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:28.440 validator company, so no different than you know, you could stake with coinbase 199 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:33.840 or Cracking or any of these big companies right and start to unlock rewards. 200 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:37.240 Normally those rewards would go to Cracking or Coinbase and you would take some rewards 201 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:43.720 as well as the individual staking with them and Dyke in Austria are are kind 202 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:46.799 of you know again another staking option. They have three hundred and fifty million 203 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:48.919 dollars in assets. Already staked with them, but I had never heard of 204 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:52.360 them before. The only reason I heard about him was because one of our 205 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.440 NFT holders was actually a content creator Donku, and he partnered with them to 206 00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:00.799 launch that community validator set, and he got out of the game and he's 207 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:03.120 like, look, I'm basically retiring. If Coinage wants this, I think 208 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:07.080 you guys are a really good content creator. They're looking for someone else to 209 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:09.840 step in, and it just made a lot of sense. And again, 210 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:13.720 it unlocks the network effects because perhaps you watch our content, perhaps you want 211 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:18.080 to support our channel, you can go and stake with them. Again, 212 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:22.240 their commissions are right in line with everybody else, but those taking rewards would 213 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.600 go back to the DOW, which can help support our content. So it's 214 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:31.720 another kind of sustainable way again to support the creators, you know, outside 215 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:35.120 of just paying for memberships or you know, like a Patreon. You can 216 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:39.200 actually stake these assets. And it's been exciting because today is day one. 217 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:43.240 We just announced that. I'm telling you first, Tony, And again, 218 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.200 I don't think I would have even seen that opportunity if it weren't for one 219 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.600 of our members saying I have aligned interests with Coinage, and this is a 220 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:54.480 deal that I think makes a lot of sense. It's amazing. What are 221 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:58.960 your thoughts and then I'm going to get a bit maybe out of our conversation 222 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:03.879 for a bit, but it's something that fascinates me. What do you also 223 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:15.240 think about web monetization for content with micro transactions from different blockchains. So, 224 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:18.360 for example, maybe I have a wallet that has Ethereum or Solana, I 225 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:24.240 go to your go to Coinage's website looking at an interview maybe with John Wu 226 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:30.399 and as I'm on there, my wallet automatically tips you or I can choose 227 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:33.639 to tip you, and it will be a micro transaction very fast, it 228 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:35.720 goes to your wallet because I'm on there. What do you think about that 229 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:39.639 as well? In the future of Web three and media, Yeah, I 230 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:45.639 think it's been really tricky because there are a lot of different ways to attack 231 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:50.600 this problem right of rewarding creators, and I think even traditional Web two companies. 232 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:52.120 I mean, it's no secret that Elon Musk has really leaned into that 233 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:56.879 to kind of challenge the other big content platforms to say, Okay, we 234 00:15:56.919 --> 00:16:03.039 want to reward creators somehow. And so it's a huge problem right among the 235 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:07.000 competition, and I think for Web three solutions, it's not easy to choose 236 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:11.320 which one's easiest, right, And you know, I think the automation is 237 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:15.679 great, but self sovereignty around how wallets work and everything else has enabled you 238 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:19.000 know, interesting models and ourselves included, right, Like, It's not like 239 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.559 we kind of lean too hard, honestly, maybe into Web three. We 240 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.320 didn't collect any information from anyone when we first launched, and that again was 241 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:29.679 a call of do we want to be Web three or Web two? Do 242 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:33.039 we want to like steal all this information from the users who are our first 243 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.840 users? And we said no, And you know, we live with that 244 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:41.679 choice. But I think that there's a lot of different roads to go for 245 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.720 us. Honestly. You know, we're taking the parts that work for Web 246 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:48.919 three and the parts that I think work for Web two. Sometimes a lot 247 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:53.200 of the stuff is too complicated for an average media consumer. So you know, 248 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.799 we're taking parts that work for coinage and applying it outside of the crypto 249 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:00.039 field now with best as sever And I think think a lot of the simplicity 250 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.000 there is where the industry is going. Right. You don't even know that 251 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:07.559 you have a wallet, You don't even know that, you know, you 252 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:10.319 need to use crypto to pay for these things, and so for us, 253 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:14.720 we're kind of abstracting that away with the help of Privy and other partners. 254 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:18.480 But I think it's a constant question that honestly changes day by day. I 255 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.640 don't know if anyone knows the real answer to how hard do we want to 256 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:23.039 lean into web three and how much of this can be out of me? 257 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:27.119 Yeah, you're absolutely right, and there's a lot of ideas out there. 258 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:32.880 And to your point, the consumer has to get educated. The technology has 259 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:36.519 to be a point where there's less friction, where it's easy for maybe my 260 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:41.160 mom and dad to set it up and they go to their favorite websites and 261 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:44.119 it happens automatically. Right. They don't have to think about it. They 262 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:48.279 don't have to worry about a wallet address and doing this and that and private 263 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:51.240 keys. It has to be very simple, and I think we'll get there, 264 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:55.559 but right now we're still in the building phase and we'll see which technology 265 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:59.000 wins. Yeah, and I mean, like again, i think it's been 266 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:02.440 really cool to see other ways that some other people have been tackling this. 267 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:03.920 You know, collectibles are so huge, right, so there's a lot of 268 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:10.079 creators who are putting episodes and everything on chain, letting people collect them. 269 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:14.799 To me, I've always kind of been confused by that because I don't know, 270 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:17.680 I've never collected any like form of media outside of art and you know 271 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:19.920 what pfps are all about. But for us, I think we're a little 272 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.200 bit old school in the way of, Okay, what needs to be on 273 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:26.680 chain? What can live off chain? Can we set up like a dow 274 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:30.000 co op, which is you know again, ARII has been around for like 275 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.680 one hundreds of years. The idea of a cooperative in the US has been 276 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:37.680 around for centuries. Can we like build something that honestly allows us to do 277 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:41.920 this legally and pay dividends to to our community members and like, it's not 278 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:45.559 that revolutionary, but putting memberships on chain to allow people to trade these if 279 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:49.319 they want is a bit revolutionary in what we've set up. So it's just 280 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:52.680 been you know, kind of cool an accountants telling us, like, Okay, 281 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:57.519 all you're really doing is up converting the cooperative into the twenty first century. 282 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:02.519 And that's kind of cool to hear too, because not everything needs to 283 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:06.960 be the old way of startups and in the air of web three as we've 284 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:11.079 seen, like rewarding your earliest users is something that does accelerate the network effects 285 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:17.640 and does accelerate growing something way quicker and honestly, I think supports the idea 286 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:22.079 of success. So it's been exciting to see it work out thus far and 287 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:26.359 to hit this kind of I don't know, this kind of leg of oh 288 00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:29.160 wow, this is actually maybe working here. A year in I did not 289 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:33.759 think that it would happen. Well, you know, congrats again and I 290 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:37.640 love it and I think it's the future. And since we're talking about media 291 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:45.519 and blockchains, recently we saw Fox Business I believe it was corporation. They 292 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:49.839 partnered with Polygon to set up a platform where they're going to put their content 293 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:56.680 on the blockchain to help avoid AI deep fakes and the rise of de fakes 294 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:02.079 in different mediums and different media types. What do you think about that and 295 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:04.839 are you guys looking at anything along those lines. Yeah, I think it's 296 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.720 I mean, it's a huge problem that honestly hasn't really I mean everyone's been 297 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.319 talking about it for years in terms of deep pis are going to destroy the 298 00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:15.680 Internet, and I think this year we've seen the acceleration so much, whether 299 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.240 it was you know, kind of what happened with Taylor Swift or almost any 300 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:22.319 celebrity, and now as the election approaches, anything that could happen there is 301 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:27.559 definitely a real risk and I think, you know, blockchains are perfectly suited 302 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:32.319 for that, for verification and for you know, showing where something comes from. 303 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:36.440 I think that Polygon and Fox initiative is really cool, and I know 304 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:41.000 some of the people working on that team, and I think it is a 305 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:45.640 unique way to kind of see AI and crypto like converge, and I think 306 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.960 we saw a lot of people rotate out of crypto being cool and into AI, 307 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:52.599 and now I think these are just kind of like a symbiotic circle of 308 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:56.680 okay, how does one augment and help the other? And that's a perfect 309 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.000 example, and I think it's necessary and needed for I think, you know, 310 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.559 I don't know if it's so high on our list of items that we 311 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:10.720 necessarily need to solve right now, but I do think that risk vector is 312 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:14.920 growing like pretty quickly in terms of like something fake gets out on the internet. 313 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:18.039 It's not too crazy to think about it, like some really like bad 314 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:22.240 outcomes that could happen from it, So I'm excited to see that because I 315 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:26.319 think that that's just one of like the top use cases for how blockchains and 316 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.319 AI kind of work together for sure. Now, let's talk about your ROADBAP 317 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:34.640 a bit. And you know, do you anticipate as trust us media grows 318 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:40.160 and coinage grows and your new show the best best dish ever I believe it 319 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:44.799 is? Yeah? Yeah, are you planning to bring other creators under your 320 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:48.480 fold? You know, maybe offer this service, like here's a white label 321 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:52.960 package, how to launch this for your community and things along those lines. 322 00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:56.160 Yeah. I mean, if you think about the creator economy, it's one 323 00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:00.319 of the fastest growing pieces of the Internet. Right. And traditionally, you 324 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.640 know, again the model has been grow an audience as large as possible, 325 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:10.880 sell ads against that audience and make a worse product or endanger the trust you've 326 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:12.799 built with your audience, right, because then someone's like, I don't know 327 00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:15.680 if they really like this thing or if they're just getting paid to say they 328 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:18.680 like this thing. And it's the same problem that web two media suffered from, 329 00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:22.759 Right, it's the same thing that kind of has led this huper or 330 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.880 hyper radicalized right and hyper radicalize left in the news space, and then no 331 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:33.880 one really knows who to trust, and I think influencers are dangerously set up 332 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.720 to do the same thing. And again, unless you change the model, 333 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:42.480 and we've seen attempts. Patreons obviously a huge company out there. Instagram has 334 00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:45.839 been trying to help creators for years. I just think that you know, 335 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:49.839 Web three again unlock some of these network effects. Speculation is not a bad 336 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.200 thing to say, Okay, I think this creator is great, they're going 337 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:56.799 to blow up. I want a piece like That's kind of what our models 338 00:22:56.839 --> 00:23:02.119 set up to augment and build around. And yeah, to your question, 339 00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:04.480 I mean Coinage was the proof of concept. It's working great. It's also 340 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:11.720 you know, very squarely focused on the crypto news niche and Bestish ever is 341 00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:14.599 going to apply that same model to that niche. And we're excited to work 342 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:18.680 with creators who again have you know, more than a million followers and are 343 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:22.319 squarely focused on the New York City food scene. But yeah, beyond it, 344 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:27.880 I mean, like I said, Netflix kind of started somewhere right, 345 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:32.240 and they didn't start as a streaming platform. They started selling DVDs in the 346 00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:34.279 mail. And to have the co founder of Netflix as one of our backers 347 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:38.920 kind of say the same thing is you attack the problem. And I think 348 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:42.920 that the problem of trust and the problem of community in the Web two era 349 00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:48.920 of media has not really been solved. And streaming as well as a bit 350 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:52.640 of a bit of a problem in the way that Okay, we're all paying 351 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.519 for like eight different packages now and they're all kind of still competing to figure 352 00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:00.680 out what's the what's the piece of content that's going to drive this, and 353 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.440 I feel like, again it's setting up for a very different outcome. You 354 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.920 don't need to chase an audience that big, But what can you do when 355 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:12.319 you realign incentives to let a creator produce content that their existing community really loves 356 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:17.240 and wants to see, and how can they influence it? You know, 357 00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:19.920 mister Beast is a perfect example. Like he's blown up and then he was 358 00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:25.559 talking about ipoing and it's like he had given so much money away to his 359 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:29.599 subscribers along the way, But he probably could have even grown quicker if he 360 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:33.319 had from the very onset figured out a way to give that value back to 361 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:37.079 his earliest subscribers. And so, I don't know, Reddit's another good example 362 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:40.920 of them trying to do this as the IPO. But I just feel like 363 00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:45.640 if you do it from the very beginning, it helps everyone. So that's 364 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:48.640 kind of the model as we see it. Yeah, and you know, 365 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.079 as you're saying now, I was thinking about NFTs going to the next level 366 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.920 where it's unlocking utility. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the 367 00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.079 collectible market, the artwork and so forth. But we know a lot of 368 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:03.039 it's very frothy, right, the whole artwork and this guy's popping up. 369 00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:10.759 But I think the true value of NFTs comes with the utility in addition to 370 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.400 digital ownership, where you have a voice, you can participate it, unlock 371 00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:18.920 special perks, events, benefits and so forth. And you know, as 372 00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:25.000 we were talking about mister Bees, could he have done something with NFTs where 373 00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:29.119 the NFT holders maybe get to go on the show and watch how these things 374 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:33.200 are made and get a tour and it puts them in some sort of raffle 375 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:36.079 to be able to win money or whatever it may be. Right, just 376 00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:40.839 unlocking a ton of benefits and would they be more engaged and you know, 377 00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:45.559 promote the mister Be's brand even more possibly? Yeah? Yeah, Well, 378 00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:48.559 I mean you just touched on a really important piece of that too, which 379 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.920 is not just the engagement, which we've seen again in this model, our 380 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:55.920 engagements like up ten x over the old model, at least comparing you know, 381 00:25:56.079 --> 00:26:00.319 engagement for competitors in our niche. But it's the other piece, the 382 00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.839 IP piece that you touched on there too that like, again, pfps are 383 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:07.640 kind of interesting in the way that you know, Pudge Penguin and some of 384 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:11.960 these other projects have been set up to kind of tokenize your own Penguin or 385 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:15.880 your own PfP in a collection, but it's also somewhat dilutive, right, 386 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.599 And we saw that with board apes. Is like how many people and their 387 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:22.039 mom were trying to pitch board ape shows when that craze was going on, 388 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:25.559 and each one kind of diluted away from the other one, right, And 389 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:29.359 so like, you know, that's not necessarily the best way to build around 390 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:33.759 IP. Whereas you know in our model again, everything is owned by the 391 00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:37.599 DOO and the case of coinage, everything is owned by the coinage dow co 392 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.400 op. And so what does that look like if we can do one thing 393 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:44.799 over here and one thing over there, but everyone else is kind of sharing 394 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:48.599 in the upside via the DOO and their NFT which unlocks dividends. So it's 395 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:53.920 a different way of looking at kind of controlling IP, maximizing the value that 396 00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:57.400 you can get from a creative idea and co ownership. But you're right, 397 00:26:57.400 --> 00:27:02.240 putting it on chain is something that enables all of this. And I'm not 398 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:03.759 saying one solution is better than the other, but I am saying that, 399 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:07.240 you know, it is a technology that you can apply and start to unlock 400 00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:11.480 some of those network effects, whether you want to go one route versus the 401 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:14.799 other, and at the very least being in the arena. It's cool to 402 00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.680 see now as a builder versus just kind of covering it as a journalist, 403 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:22.799 like what these decisions and trade offs look like on a day to day basis. 404 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:26.279 Yeah. Absolutely. Let's talk about the crypto market at large. With 405 00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:30.799 the limited time we have left here, what are your thoughts on bitcoin ripping 406 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:36.119 man? Today, it's over fifty seven thousand, the ETFs are seeing record 407 00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:40.160 inflows. The market looks great. Obviously, we're still early in the bull 408 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:44.440 market cycle. Most are anticipating we still got to go into twenty twenty five. 409 00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:47.359 But what are your thoughts and outlook on the market. Yeah, I 410 00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:49.720 mean I've obviously been watching a lot of the interviews you've been doing on your 411 00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:53.279 channel, and I feel like everyone's saying the same thing right now, which 412 00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:56.680 is kind of scary, right, and the idea of oh, look it's 413 00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.240 up, only it's applying demand. It's very easy to understand. You know, 414 00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:02.160 it's no big deal. We're already like way beyond where anyone thought this 415 00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:03.960 would be. And that is all true. But at the same time, 416 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:07.039 you know, I've seen that before where everyone gets on one side of the 417 00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:11.200 trade. So it makes me nervous. And you know, obviously, if 418 00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:14.400 you've covered crypto as long as we have, Tony, like you've seen these 419 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:18.519 cycles before, so you know when it's upcycling up, only sometimes it really 420 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.000 is and you don't fight the trend. The trend is your friend. And 421 00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:25.960 so like, I don't know looking at how quickly this has gone beyond Like 422 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.160 a simple example is like how quickly Blackrock would have been able to displace micro 423 00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:34.920 Strategy as one of the largest kind of public holders of bitcoin publicly traded. 424 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:38.920 And you know a lot of people were like, oh, it's gonna take 425 00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:42.119 like two years. BlackRock's like probably gonna do it in a couple of months, 426 00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:45.400 like they're gonna jump past Michael Saylor like that quickly. And it's just 427 00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:51.279 one example of showing like how far off these predictions were. And so if 428 00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:55.880 you consider that, it's not difficult to extrapolate and get to you know, 429 00:28:55.920 --> 00:29:00.039 where we go from here. And I'm in the camp of truly people do 430 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.240 not understand the mismatch. So as as worried as I am, I would 431 00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:07.519 say, you know, I agree with the price targets that we're seeing around 432 00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.119 like one sixteen up there for bitcoin this year, I would be in that 433 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.680 camp. Yeah, And I put out a newsletter yesterday with a thesis around 434 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:19.400 that because of the macro factors, but the ETF buying as well, the 435 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:26.079 macro factors being presidential election year has performed well in the past. While the 436 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:29.480 FED is saying, hey, we're going to cut rates, I don't think 437 00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:32.839 they're going to do it before the election because that might show some sort of 438 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.599 bias and put a ton of volatility in the markets. I don't think Biden 439 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:38.599 wants that, and I'm not supporting Biden or anybody. I'm just saying it. 440 00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:44.000 You know, any president would not want that, And I think when 441 00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:48.279 they do decide to cut. We've seen historically the markets pull back because there's 442 00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:53.559 usually a problem when they start to cut, something is breaking, and it 443 00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:59.240 could the markets be like, Okay, let's let's get our party going this 444 00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:03.000 year before they make that cut, and then you know, it's a pullback. 445 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:06.440 I don't know. That's just my thesis, but you know, we'll 446 00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:08.000 see what happens. Yeah, I mean the forward looking piece of this, 447 00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:12.039 look, the crypto market's been very good at getting ahead of the stock market 448 00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:15.960 and where this is going to go. And I think if you're an investor, 449 00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:18.200 whether you're a crypto investor or traditional investor, that's exciting to see kind 450 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.559 of the lead happening there in crypto and there's so much to be you know, 451 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.400 excited about, whether it's Bitcoin and that adoption or the ETHTF and whether 452 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:30.359 or not that's coming this year, and everything else that's being built. Like 453 00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:34.160 a little bit farther down the line. I do think that this cycle hopefully 454 00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:37.480 does get away from just pure speculation and more into okay, this is a 455 00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:41.920 rational reason as to why we are arriving at these price predictions, and that's 456 00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:44.319 the way that I think you look through it and That's the way I look 457 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.319 through it, and like it's at least exciting that we are here talking about 458 00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:51.680 that rather than just, hey, this thing is on an upward triangle trajectory. 459 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:55.720 I don't touch technicals here because of some of this stuff, but I 460 00:30:55.759 --> 00:31:00.200 think that we are getting fundamentally into some really really exciting times for crypto for 461 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.599 sure. Now, the other big thing that everyone's watching is will we see 462 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:06.680 crypto regulations is here? It is an election year, so it's going to 463 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.799 be tough, but there are two bills in the House and two in the 464 00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:12.920 Senate. Patrick McHenry has been trying to make this happen. You know, 465 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:18.240 are you anticipating regulations get pass this year? Yeah? I think the stable 466 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:22.559 coin piece is huge. I've interviewed Patrick mcchenry before. That guy is great. 467 00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:25.640 He understands this and he understands the importance, and so using the time 468 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:27.240 that he still has there, I'd be optimistic that he would get it done. 469 00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:32.359 And he has worked with Maxine Waters on it for literally years, and 470 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:34.000 you know the updates that we saw out of DC, it was I was 471 00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:37.920 optimistic because I had thought no, because it'd be a lame duck, you 472 00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:40.920 know, session, we won't get much done, but it seems like that's 473 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:44.640 kind of turning now. And you know, you know, just as everyone 474 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:48.480 else does, Like stable coins matter in so much in crypto because it's just 475 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:51.559 kind of how the money flows in, and if the money flows in, 476 00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:56.279 usually that does drive number go up, and so it would be a huge 477 00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:00.960 unlock that again the biggest pumps, the biggest market movers, And this isn't 478 00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:05.039 just crypto, it's always when the expectations are so far away from that thing 479 00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:07.400 happening. And to say that there's potentially a stable coin bill in twenty twenty 480 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:12.599 four, I wouldn't have believed you last year. So I think it's huge 481 00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:14.920 and I think it would be a pretty big unlock. So I'm in the 482 00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:17.160 camp of yes, I hope it happens. But again with politics certainly this 483 00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:21.880 year, I wouldn't want to predict anything in that camp. For sure. 484 00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:25.000 It's going to be a very interesting year. Now, I got some wrap 485 00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:29.240 up questions for you. First, if you could create your own metaverse, 486 00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:35.240 what would the theme be. We've built so in one of our Coinage episodes. 487 00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:37.119 Actually this is kind of fun. We built my shitty New York City 488 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:40.480 apartments in the Metaverse. We put it into centraland it was like an amalgamation 489 00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:45.279 of all the terrible places I've lived with, like you know, the leaks 490 00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:47.359 and the cockroaches and the mice. And we put it into Central Land. 491 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:50.519 And then the architect was like, you know, just Central. It's not 492 00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:53.079 built for like something that's this bad. You know, it's supposed to look 493 00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:55.960 good. And we bought a plot of land that was going to be close 494 00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.559 to Snoop Dogg's place in the metaverse, and the now owns that. We 495 00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:05.039 haven't sold it yet. We put out an episode around it, but I 496 00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:08.839 think you know that would be That was my twisted version of my metaverse is 497 00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:13.799 can we actually create something so bad as New York City apartments in something so 498 00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.240 good as the metaverse has been promised to be? You had to get you 499 00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:20.759 put up one of those shoe box or closet apartment. That's terrible. Man, 500 00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:22.559 it's terrible, and it reminds me every time about how bad it was. 501 00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:25.319 It was literally a six foot by nine foot like room that I had, 502 00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:30.599 So not good. Oh man, all right, rapid fire questions, 503 00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:34.759 favorite food, Yeah, it's a great question for best of schever too. 504 00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:37.559 I love I'm a steak guy. I'm a meat guy. I started a 505 00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:42.920 little meat TikTok randomly in the pandemic. I think everybody is obsessed with meats 506 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.400 if you get to be a guy who's old enough and bored enough. So 507 00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:50.279 I was just smoking meats. But huge steak guy, huge brisket guy. 508 00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:52.759 And I think with best of schev, it's gonna be cool to just kind 509 00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:54.880 of put all that on chain and let a community choose what the best dishes 510 00:33:54.880 --> 00:34:00.279 are. Because my opinions are mine, but there are much more qualified people 511 00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:02.480 who will be steering that whole thing, and we'll see what they say. 512 00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:07.599 But I'm not afraid to say I'm a meet guy in this era of veganism 513 00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:13.679 for sure. Favorite musician or band. I'm a huge block party guy. 514 00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:15.280 I don't know if that's because I'm a millennial and that's just kind of where 515 00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:20.239 I learned that, but I'm a huge block party guy. And surprisingly, 516 00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:22.280 you know, there's a lot of Web three musicians that have come up to 517 00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.159 I'd give Spoty Wi Fi a shout out. He came on the show and 518 00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:29.719 talked about how he's been able to sell NFTs. He's actually got some bangers, 519 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:35.480 so block party, spotty WiFi, those aren't bad options. Nice and 520 00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:40.039 favorite movie, dude, I'm an old classics guy. I'm gonna go with 521 00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:45.719 It's a wonderful life. Watch it every year on Christmas time. Good ideals, 522 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:47.920 community, What can we do? Where does real value come from? 523 00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:52.360 It's the connections we make, It's the network effects. It's not the dollars 524 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:55.360 in your account, especially not in the bear market. So those are the 525 00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:59.039 themes. I love that movie, dude. Yeah, it's great. I 526 00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:02.480 literally, like you said, every holiday, Christmas, alli Day and so 527 00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:07.960 forth, I'm watching that. It just resets your perspective on life sometimes because 528 00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:12.440 we get so focused on money and things. But like you said, dude, 529 00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:15.559 yeah, and it's also like it's the bank run. The bank run 530 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:19.960 like scene is legitimately like where I think Web three like that should be required 531 00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:22.719 watching for anyone Web three because it's like, okay, banks want you to 532 00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:28.000 panic and everything, and and you know classic Jimmy Stewart being like, look, 533 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:30.360 if we band together, we can we can do this. And I 534 00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:32.760 feel like, you know, man, dumb money, perfect example to point 535 00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:37.599 to you, like traditionally markets do not help the little guy and like if 536 00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:40.960 you can actually bring those network effects together to where you can bind together like 537 00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.320 it's Jimmy Stewart man, it's it's a wonderful life. It's dumb money. 538 00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.679 It's like in this era of the Internet, like community matters, and it 539 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:54.480 unlocks huge value that we couldn't have done before. Absolutely favorite book, dude. 540 00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:59.360 I'm embarrassed to say I don't really read that much, but I I, 541 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:01.360 oh, man, let's see. Actually, you know what, Mark 542 00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:06.599 Randolph's book That Will Never Work is honestly like one of the few that I've 543 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:09.719 read and enjoyed and said, this actually has a lot of learnings. It 544 00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:14.639 was all about why he created Netflix and like where it came from in the 545 00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:17.599 early days of building that out and everyone's saying that will never work, and 546 00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:21.320 he was able to overcome that. And now you know, as I said, 547 00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.719 he's one of our advisors, and I think it's it's a great business 548 00:36:23.719 --> 00:36:28.320 book for anyone who wants to learn anything about startups in a way that's not 549 00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:31.480 too preachy. So shout out to Mark for that one. You brought that 550 00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:36.159 up that you don't read too many books, and I find myself not reading 551 00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:38.559 as much now, But it's not that I'm not learning. I'm more listening 552 00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:45.760 to podcasts because it's almost like the audio visual version of a book because you're 553 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:49.280 hearing stories in depth. I don't know if you agree with that, but 554 00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:51.039 I don't think that. Yeah, I mean, this is what you and 555 00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:52.880 I do, So it's probably not too surprising that maybe we're not book guys 556 00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:58.760 because we spend our days in and days out working on good video and podcast 557 00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:00.719 content. So you know, I haven't authored a book. I wouldn't know 558 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:04.480 where to start, and I haven't read that many either because I'm too visual. 559 00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:08.880 And finally, when you're not working at Trust Trust us Media or Coinage, 560 00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:13.039 what are you doing for fun? Yeah? So I mean most of 561 00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:15.400 my times dedicated to working these days, to be honest with you, Tony, 562 00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:17.639 like I don't get to get out. I'm literally like chained to this 563 00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:21.840 desk most days, just working on Coinage and trust lists and Bestish ever and 564 00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:23.679 everything else that we're trying to do. But when I do get to escape 565 00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:30.639 normally, I think one of my favorite hobbies is just cooking, to be 566 00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:34.159 honest with you, and trying to grow my repertoire and can do a nice 567 00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:37.320 braze short rib could do maybe a little salmon, some chicken, but like 568 00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:40.119 you know, I think it's just a really good way to like, like 569 00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:43.920 you said, like there's so many distractions and so many things to kind of 570 00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:46.639 do in this world, specifically in crypto, and just kind of like unplug 571 00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:52.559 for a little bit and use your hands. It's just nice, nice Zach, 572 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:55.880 pleasure chatting with you. Excited for future updates around trust media and coinage 573 00:37:55.920 --> 00:38:00.159 and best dish ever, and I'd love to have you back on in the 574 00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:02.159 future as things progress. Thank you for joining me. Thank you Tony in 575 00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:05.880 again shout out to what you do here man, because there's not a lot 576 00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:08.239 of good places to go to learn anything about what this crazy world is in 577 00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:12.760 crypto, and honestly shout out to you for what you do. We need 578 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:15.400 to find more creators who are focused on the actual use cases and how to 579 00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:19.679 survive in this in this industry, man, So thank you for having me 580 00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:22.039 on and I would love to come back anytime. Awesome