He co founded the club and co designed the golf course with Alister Mackenzie.
His intention had always been to have just a very informal golf tournament where his
friends that were pros could come and gather and play a little golf have a
good time. Cliff Roberts saw it a little differently. He saw this as
being able to become the event though it is now so he was the one,
in fact that really pushed for the word Masters to be attached to it.
Bub hated that term Masters for a couple of reasons. One was he
thought it was extremely pretentious, and then he also thought that a tournament that
was being held to the Deep South in the nineteen thirties, Masters might not
be the best title for it. But by nineteen sixty, when Palmer had
won it the second time, Bub said, I think Masters might be an
apt description now because by then everybody who was anybody had to win the Masters
to be considered a really great player. And that's true now too. Hey
Cray, this is Karen Healy from Nakes County to their Ireland. I'm a
member and play a beautiful Nake golf field found in eighteen ninety six. This
is Golf Smarter number eight eight nine, The Masters, Augustin National and the
legacy of legendary Bobby Jones with his grandson, doctor Bob Jones the Fourth.
This is golf Smart, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf mines
to help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host,
Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf Smarter Podcast. Bob. Oh,
it's great to be with you again. Fred. It's so nice to
look forward to April because not only do we have the Masters coming up,
but we have a conversation with Bobby Jones' grandson, doctor Bob Jones the Fourth.
So glad to have you back. So great to talk to you again.
Oh, it's great to be with you as well. I can't believe
we missed. We missed a meeting at the PGA show this year, so
I'm glad at least we get to Eyeball this way. Yeah. I'm sorry
you couldn't come. I would have loved to meet you there. It was
completely overwhelming for me. There was so much going on. It's you know,
I think it's the kind of thing that you got to do it multiple
years, is you get comfortable and know the people and going once it's like
deer in the headlights. It really is. And I mean, can you
believe how big a showroom floor that actually is. I mean it's like twenty
thousand steps a day just to go through the whole thing. Oh easy.
I spent many years working at the NFL experience at the super Bowl, where
they take over a convention center or a parking lot of a stadium. Major
League Baseball would take over a convention center, so I worked on those for
years. So I'm quite familiar with a million square feet of space and what
it can mean and to your feet, Oh, very definitely. Oh so
this is um, let's talk about Bobby Jones. I love hearing stories.
I love hearing family stories. Right now, you're in your den, and
I can see there's a lot of Bobby Jones's memorabilia behind you. So we're
gonna have to share this video with the audience. Oh yeah, So please
let's take a quick tour of what you're seeing, what's behind you, because
there's some things that look a little different than just photographs. Some of them
are Yes, should I pick up the iPad or just leave it and just
show you from here? Just leave it and turn around in point if you
like, but please give a full explanation, knowing that it's a audio audience
most of the time. Sorry, they need full explanations, so audio audience.
Okay, Well you know audience, as you can see, no the
I've got a portrait on the very top over my right shoulder of my grandfather.
It is a rep of the famous portrait that was done by golf artist
Thomas Stevens, and later on President Eisenhower would use that portrait as the model
for one that he did. Both this one and the Eisenhower portrait of course
a very seriously part of the Augustin at Well. The Stevens portrait is now
at the USGA, but it was commissioned by Augusta National. Below that,
I have a wonderful print of the eighteenth green of the wingfoot West Course in
Mamaroneck, New York, and that is significant to my grandfather from the nineteen
twenty nine US Open. My grandfather had had a collapse of almost measurable immeasurable
proportions and he needed to make a twelve foot put on that green and in
order to force a playoff with al Spinosa, and he made that put.
Had he not made that put, there are many people who think, and
I'm one of them, that it's quite likely that he never would have even
won the Rand Slam. Now there's something behind me that looks like a big
egg beater. Um, it's red and white. Yeah, yeah, I'm
like what because it doesn't. It looks like a punching bag. Actually,
but it has the stick of a flagstick for in a hole. Yes it
does, and that's exactly what it is. It's it's it is a replica
of the flagstick from Marion Golf Club. And Marion is, of course where
my grandfather played in his first national championship in the nineteen sixteen United States Amateur
and also where he closed out the Grand Slam UH in nineteen thirty. And
so we use those at Bobby Jones Golf Course here in Atlanta on special occasions.
And Whitney Krause, who runs Bobby Jones links the company to manage that
had these, and he said, you know, you really need to have
one of these in your home. So now I don't. Oh, yes,
that's awesome. Now that's amazing. Over my left shoulder, you can't
see it, but that's Okay, if your audio you can't see it anyway,
but even if your video you can't see it. But there is a
replica of Calamity Jane that was given to me by Jack Nicholas in nineteen seventy
six for the first Memorial Tournament. So let's talk about Calamity Jana. I
was reading about Calamity Jane. Whom who what is Calamity Jane. Well,
Calamity Jane was a was an entertainer in the old Wild West days. But
my grandfather went up to play a round of golf in Long Island and Jimmy
Maiden, whose brothers, Stewart Maiden was one of my If my grandfather had
a teacher, would have been Stewart Maiden. Jimmy saw that Bub was trying
to put with this very heavy mallet headed putter, and of course was just
hitting the ball way too hard. And so he found had this blade putter
called that had Calamity Jane stamped on the back of it, and he said,
Bobby really ought to try this putter. Now, the story is that
somebody had had Calamity Jane before and had gotten so frustrated they threw it into
the neighboring graveyard to Nassau Country Club. And I don't know if that's true
or not, but you know, Fred, it's like the Italians say,
if it isn't true, it should be Anyway, Love got that and he
used Calamity Jane for many, many years until the face became concave and then
he had Jay Victor East. He had Jay Victor East to make a Calamity
Jane too, and that's what he actually used. I believe it would be
in nineteen twenty eight, twenty nine and thirty. So that's Calamity Jane's history.
Awesome, and Calamity Jane one is at Augusta National and Calamity Jane two
is at the United States Golf Association. Very good, very good. So
are these stories that are passed along, you know, through the family or
is this as a historian what you've studied and you've you've put to memory and
gotten deep into the elements of the intricacies of these stories. A little bit
of both. Actually, my dad told me a lot of stories. You
know. My grandfather didn't so much because he just wasn't one to really talk
about stuff. My dad told me a lot of them, and then over
the years, over the years, I've just kind of researched and picked it
up. And I've got some friends Sid Matthew down in Tallahassee, who is
a who is probably one of the leading Bob Jones scholars in the world,
and Catherine Lewis here in Atlanta, and others, and overtime, you know,
I've just sort of collected them. I used to get really nervous about
saying stories that Sid had told me, and I said, you know,
Syd, you ought to be telling these. I mean, you tell the
story better than I do. And he looked at me and he said,
he calls me laddie. We call each other laddie. And he said,
Laddie, let me just tell you. He said, you and I can
tell the exact same story. And he said, and it really doesn't matter.
But if you're telling the story, well then it means something. And
I thought about it and I thought, you know, there's probably some truth
to what he says. So I then have basically just collected them and I
trot them out periodically. And one of the nice things fred is I've realized
is that they might be true, they might not who's going to tell right,
No, but we actually actually though seriously, I do try to make
sure that they are accurate, because there's so much mythology that has grown up
around my grandfather that I think that the true stories are actually I think the
true stories are actually better, much better. Yeah. So yeah, so
I try to do that. Well, it takes me back to the very
first question I asked you when you were on a couple of years ago,
and that is what's it like to be golf Royalty? And you you were
like, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's
like no, no, when you tell the story, it carries weight,
it's probably yeah, and that's and that is probably true. However, you
know, given what happens to royal families, I'm still going to resist that.
Well, I don't know if they're going to be doing a five season,
five season series on on you and your family. No, I don't
you hope not, Mater. There's not enough material for that, So there
you go. No, yeah, yeah, awesome. All right, listen,
we're going to continue with our tour of your tribute to Bobby Jones,
but we're gonna take a break and we'll be back right after this. Bob,
let's get back to these photographs because there's stuff over your left shoulder that
I definitely want to hear more about. I appreciate that you're explaining it,
so we all get right there with you no problem. When you come down
to the second row, there are three rows of photos there. Well,
one is a print, but underneath the top one, of course, is
the Jack Nicholas Calamity Jane that he gave me in nineteen seventy six. But
then you come down one and one of the things that you will see,
which would be on the right hand so I had to turn around him look
on the right hand side, is actually a print that was taken of my
grandfather when he was complete eating his final full shot into the eleventh green at
Marion in nineteen thirty. That was the last full shot that he hit in
competition. And then there's a photograph in the middle that has a little silver
thing that looks like a scorecard because in fact it is, and the photo
is of the very moment that Gene Holman's is conceding the put to my grandfather
to win the Grand Slam. And in that photograph there are people thronging that
eleventh green who are moving in very quickly and United States Marines that are going
into guarding. And underneath it is the actual scorecard of the final round with
Holman's. The cute little thing about it is both Holman's and my grandfather double
bogeyed the Well. I was going to say the easy tenth hole at Marion.
You have to understand that easy is a relative term when it comes to
Marion, and uh, and they both double bogied it, and my grandfather's
circled both sixes and rode above it. Ha ha. And so that's uh,
that is there. Then, Uh, let me ask you before you
move on, let me ask you you you just said that was it match
play? He said it was the eleventh was the last full shot that he
took? Correct? Yes, the match the Amateur back then and now for
that matter, was the Amateur was a match play tournament. They only played
it, I think for maybe a decade starting in the nineteen sixties through the
early seventies as stroke play and then went back to h to match play.
Uh. Now, when you move all the way to the left, what
you will see is a photograph of my grandfather Ben Hogan and Jean Sarahzin that
was shot in New York. At the time, they were the only three
men to have won the Devil, which is both the Open Championships in the
same calendar year. So that's a cool photo. Underneath that, back to
my far right, is a very unusual photo and if you look underneath,
it's a photo of my grandfather teeing off in front of the clubhouse of the
Royal and Ancient Saint Andrews. And underneath it it says Bobby John's nineteen thirty
six. And in nineteen thirty six he had returned to Scotland. He had
returned to Scotland. I believe he was on his way back to the US
after the Olympics in Berlin, or he was on his way to the Olympics
in Berlin, and he said, I can't be this close to Saint Andrews
and not play a round of golf, And so Robert Woodruff signed him up
to play, just signed it up as our Woodruff R. Jones, United
States. And when they got there, there was like a couple of hundred
people at the tea and by the time he hit the seventh hole, the
entire city had shut down and thousands were following him and he hadn't played in
months, but he hadn't played in months, but he was able to shoot
seventy two that day. But it was such an emotional experience he was never
able to really talk about it. There's a photo in the middle of a
gentleman with a pipe who actually would be my great grandfather, my grandfather's dad,
Robert Permidis Jones. And then all the way on the left there is
a collage of photos from Highlands Country Club in Highlands, North Carolina, where
my grandfather was a member, where I'm a member, where he hit the
first ball in nineteen twenty eight. And at the bottom of it is a
canceled stamp uh from from when when the post office dedicated one to him in
nineteen eighty one. So that's my back wall. That's a good wall.
Good wall. Thank you. Now I want to go back and pick up
some of the details here. Um he won. Uh he only played uh
from what nineteen twenty three to nineteen thirty. Uh? No, he only
won from nineteen twenty three to nineteen thirty. Oh, I see only one.
Oh that's right, because nineteen sixteen he won the amateur championship. No,
no, all right, Okay, nineteen sixteen. Yes you are that
by Fred. This is why I'm there. We go, thank you.
Here's here's what he did. In nineteen sixteen, he won the the inaugural
Georgia State Amateur Capitol City Club here in Atlanta, and then went to play
in his first National Amateur, which was at Marion. He then went through
seven years what we were called the seven lean years, where he could make
runner up, or he could make the finals, or he could do really
well, but he just couldn't win. And then he finally broke through in
nineteen twenty three and over the next Over the next eight years, he won
thirteen major titles, became the first person to win the double both Opens in
the same year, became and became the only man in history to win the
Grand Slam, which was all four majors in a single year. You know,
it's very fascinating to me. I mean it's like, even to this
day, we have four major championships because that's how many he won. I
mean, that's how dominant he really was. I mean, even to this
very day, nobody I think has influenced the game of golf to the same
degree that Bobby Jones has. I mean, he is still the benchmark by
which everybody's measured, right absolutely, and so the when he won those majors
was he was amateur status. Was never turned prow he never turned professional.
You know, there's some really interesting things like when he in his United States
Open titles, he you know, he won four of them. The only
people to win four have been him, Nicholas Hogan, and Willie Anderson.
And then but here's the interesting part. He won four of them, he
finished second in four of them, and two of those he lost in a
playoff. And he never finished out of the top ten. From nineteen twenty
when he played in his first Open until nineteen thirty when he played in his
last, he never finished out of the top ten except for once, and
that was in a tie for eleventh. Nobody ever beat him twice in match
play, which is mind boggling to me. And in singles, in singles
play in the Walker Cup, he never ever lost a match in singles play
in the Walker's Cup. I think he tied one in the foursome's play,
but never, never, never in the singles. Incredible record, incredible record.
One of the statistics to flesh out a little more of what you said
in thirty one championships that he played in he was first or second more than
fifty percent of the time something like that. Yes, something like that.
I mean, it's just just just a staggering statistic. All all the while
that he was attending Georgia Tech and going to Harvard studying law and getting married
and starting a family. I mean, it's made. And after he won
finished the Grand Slam in nineteen thirty, Yes, it was just so he
was on top of the world. He's won the Grand Slam, He's won
all these majors, and he retires he does That's exactly correct, very young
age. He would have been twenty eight years old, because he had no
desire at his athletic prime. Yes, he actually had no desire to turn
pro. Now once somebody said to him, wow, didn't you think about
it so well, I thought about it, but I just never really wanted
to do it. I wanted to be I wanted to be a lawyer.
And so that's what he did. And somebody made the comment to Walter Hagen
once, well, you know, Bobby didn't want to turn pro because there
just wasn't any money in it at the time. And Hagen said, well,
if he had turned pro, there would have been oh so sure,
because there was so much attention on him. Oh. Absolutely, But that
was also part of one of the reasons why he wanted to go away from
it. He wanted to us to get back to playing golf with his buddies
and not have the pressure of tournament golf. Yeah, two very different piecets.
I believe that's exactly what he said. Ooh, I've just made that
up. All right, We're gonna take another time out and then we're inching
up to you know, he won the last one in nineteen thirty. We're
not that far from twenty thirty, and there's some plans for that, So
we're going to talk about it when we come back after this. So,
as I was alluding to, twenty thirty is not that far in the big
scheme of things. But preparations are already being made for the hundredth anniversary,
the Bobby Jones Centennial, And I know that the Jones family has been working
with the USGA and the RNA. Can we go into some details on that,
Yes, we can. We are in very preliminary conversations with them.
But one of the things that we are thinking of doing that we are going
to do as a family is we are going to enter into a series of
commercial events, a series of commercial events to celebrate all of the centennial victories
that he had, both starting in twenty twenty three and leading all the way
up to twenty thirty. These will be what we are looking to do is
to sell corporate sponsorships to corporations that we feel embody the name and values of
my grandfather, the values of him at least, and this will also give
us the chance to tell the Bobby Jones story to an entirely new generation.
You know, one of the things that we've discovered as a family over the
years is that you have to do this commercially. Given the way things are
in this day and age. You have to do it commercially to get the
story out, and to get the story out so that young people will start
getting interested in, Hey, who was this guy? Because one of the
things that we've learned is that the Bobby Jones story is tremendously compelling and incredibly
inspirational, and in the classic sense of the word, it's very heroic in
almost every possible way. And so we feel that the centennial celebration will be
a way to get the story told. And it is our intention to devote
twenty percent of what we net, which is a pretty substant we hope to
be a substantial number. We want to devote twenty percent of what wet net
to go to finding to go to support organizations and foundations, including our Bobby
Jones Kring Surringomlia Foundation, so that we can help find a cure for the
disease that took his life. It's you know, research is an expensive proposition,
and so we want to make sure that we want to make sure that
we are doing something that can move the needle in research on syringomilia. So
that's what we're gonna that's our plan between now and now in twenty thirty.
We're still at the somewhat preliminary stages, but hopefully I'll have more details to
tell you when we meet by this time next year. Yeah, of course,
it's interesting because here you have, you know, a name that people
do recognize today. You know, there's some names you've even mentioned in our
conversation so far that I'm like, I don't know who that is? Then
who who may be major major winners, you know, I'm not I'm not
a golf historian, but I try to learn as much as I can.
But there's still names that I don't know that may had significant impact and shot
an incredible score, had an incredible match, whatever it is. But a
name a hundred years later, like Bobby Jones, that still resonates with golfers
at every level is really remarkable. I think that. And I think that
happens, as I said, because the word that describes above the best is
heroic. And when I use that term, And I'm also working on a
book, finally work again, working on this book. I've been I've been
putting it off for decades, but I'm realizing I'm not getting any younger.
But one of the things that I think is important to understand is what a
hero really is. We think a hero is just like, oh, a
guy that does great things, but that's not exactly what a hero is.
A hero is somebody that basically wrestles with their inner the inner devils, or
their darker sides, or to put it in young terms, their shadow,
and comes out somehow on top. And he did that. You know,
he had this volcanic temper that he had to overcome. In order to win
championships, and then he won those championships, and then later, just maybe
fifteen twenty years later, all of a sudden, he's faced with an adversary
that no one could have ever imagined, and that was that horrible disease syringomayelia.
And he dealt with it so well that even the great golf writer Herbert
Warren Wind ended up saying about him was that in youth he stood up with
grace and dignity to just about the best that life has to offer, which
isn't easy. And then in later life he stood up with equal grace and
dignity to just about the worst. So I think I think that that quality
that he had was such that I mean, if he had not had that
quality to him, we would just be talking about him like he was just
some guy that did these great things. I know, who was he?
Again? But because he did this with grace and dignity, because he embodied
the amateur ideal, because he was dedicated to living a life not just as
an athlete and yet conquering the athletic world, I think that's what makes the
story so powerful and so compelling, and that's why we remember Bobby Jones and
twenty twenty three, just as we did in you know, when he died
in nineteen seventy one, maybe even more so. How much of it is,
you know, your heroic view of him, is how you knew him?
Or was it more about what you heard about him from your father and
what you've read both. You know, it's very funny. When I knew
him, he was I remember him when he was on two canes, and
then he went from there to a walker, and then he went from there
to a wheelchair, and finally, by the time I was fourteen, he
went to a bed. And yet for most of that time, insofar as
he could, he would be he would have his valet dressing in the morning,
who also was his chauffee, drive him down to work, and he
went to work up until just a few weeks prior to his death in nineteen
seventy one. And when he would come home, he would be changed into
pajama pants and a T shirt, and he would sit and you know,
he would watch television, and he would engage in conversation with people that were
there, and and I suppose, I'd suppose the greatest thing I could say
to him is I get asked by people sometimes what was your grandfather like?
And as well, you know how they say he was, you know,
in terms of his grace, swan, his kindness when he was when he
would meet people, and they said, yeah, so that's how he was
at home too. Now, don't get me wrong. He could be a
tough guy. He was not. I mean, this is a man that
won thirteen major championships in a very short period of time. He was not
a week or a soft man. But he did, I think, represent
a lot of what was genuinely good and virtuous in people. So but you
also mentioned that he had quite a temper, was very much and did you
ever see that or was that gone by the time that you arrived. I'm
sure it was still there, but I never saw it. But you have
to understand my relationship with my grandparents was a little bit different in this sense.
For example, one time, my grandmother used to have dinner for us
at the dining room table. Every night it was served. We had to
dress up for it and everything. And one time I was down. I
must have been about six or seven at the time, and I was acting
like a total stinker, which I mean, I'm still capable of doing right.
My father corrected me at the dining room table. My grandmother sent him
to bed without his supper. So there were I was able to get away
with stuff that probably not many other people would. So the great grandchildren can
get away with a lot grandchildren children don't. Children don't grandchildren do. So
was his relationship with his father, who was Robert Jones or Bob Jones Colonel
Bob Yeah, yeah, No, his father was Robert Permedus Jones, So
Robert tire Jones, the original was his grandfather, Okay, so he So
it's confusing, However, the fourth because Robert tire Jones, then Robert P.
Then Robert tire Jones Junior, which was my grandfather, Robert tire Jones,
the third was my father, and that I became the fourth. So
it's the tire Jones that makes it the fourth as opposed to the Robert Jones.
But actually is the fifth? Correct, That's right, Oh, that's
confusing. Yes, we liked himself and did the Was the temper there in
the previous generations from him from his father and grandfather? Were they his son
on him? His father temper? Yeah, his father, Robert permedis Jones,
or Colonel Bob as he was called. He was. He was notorious
with his temper There was a story told the late Charlie Yates used to say
that he was playing golf once with Colonel Bob and my grandfather, and then
also Charlie was paired with Pierce Harris, who was a minister here in Atlanta,
who was actually a very fine player himself, And at the end of
the round, at the end of the round, my grandfather had shot like
sixty six on East Blake. My great grandfather had shot maybe eighty and which
was pretty good but never factored into a hole. But at the end of
the round, Pierce Harris turned to Charlie and said, in one of these
whispers that was designed to be heard by everybody, he pointed to my grandfather
and my great grandfather, and he pointed to my grandfather's at Charlie, never
in my life have I seen such a combination of proficiency, And then pointed
to my grandfather great grandfather and said and profanity. So my great grandfather had
quite a temperament. Also his motor and most notorious moment came in the city
Ametur one year where he his friends came up to him and said, now,
Colonel Bobby, you're going to go out and play against this this fellow,
and you're going to need to really watch your language because he's a Baptist
preacher. And so so my great grandfather gets on the first tea and he
hits one pretty deep in the right rough and he hits as soon as he
a thing's like why are that? Niker pulls it back and he gets and
finally on the sixth hole, he just lets just this string of profanity go
because he just is so furious at this point. And he turns and there's
his opponent and he's staring him down. I mean he's just lying. His
mouth is just wide open. And my great grandfather, Colonel Bob turns to
the guy and he says, I'm sorry, preacher, I am so sorry.
I just couldn't take it anymore. And the guy looked a himson,
what did you call me? And Colonel said, well, I called you
reference. I mean, you're a preacher unching and the guys, no,
I thought you were a preacher. There are buddies that each played a trick
on him and told him that the each each told them each that the other
was a Baptist preacher. Well after that, for the rest of the round
they were throwing clubs and cursing and had a great time. It was just
they had so the temper. The temper does run down through the family.
So there we go. I hope it didn't get to you. It did,
it did. The thing that finally cured me, The thing that finally
cured me was one I realized, true, really and truly, that nobody
cared, and that I realized that I just wasn't having any fun. And
we don't work golf. We play golf, and too many people work golf.
So that's how I ended up losing, losing my tendency towards temper.
That's amazing. Let's find out what's it happened on Golf Smarter Mulligans this week
in This time Out This Week on Golf Smarter Mulligans is number six of nine
in our Tony Manzoni series for twenty twenty three to help you launch your new
golf season. In this episode, we address the most common question Tony received
about the difference between his single pivot swing and stack and tilt. I can
honestly tell you that when my article came out and Golf Illustrated. I got
a lot of emails from people that bought their book and bought their tapes and
said, I can't do this. It hurts my back. But when I
tried your method, I could hit the ball. Now does that mean I'm
right, No, It just means that some people think that my method is
easier. I do know one thing. Ben O Hooligan rotated through the golf
ball. He didn't tilt. He was what we call posted straight up and
down. When he hit a golf ball, he did not tilt back.
His chest was left with the target and he was always in perfect balance.
That's Golf Smarter Mulligan's episode two hundred five, the six of nine featuring our
friend and mentor Tony Manzoni checked the show notes to learn how to get Tony's
book, The Lost Fundamental One Simple Move, Better Golf Forever, and gain
access to his video of the same name. Please subscribe for free or a
sister podcast that revisits the best of the Golf Smarter podcast called Golf Smarter Mulligan's
being released every Friday from wherever you're listening right now. One of the things
that Bobby Jones did that you just will not see in the twenty first century
sports is He spent a tremendous amount of time and traveled with a newspaperman Obi
Keeler. Yes he did. Yes, Oh, he most definitely did o
Buz who actually he was a newswriter first and then became a sportswriter. He
probably wrote one of them gripping accounts of the sync of the Titanic in nineteen
twelve. But then when he was in Atlanta, he covered probably one of
the darkest chapters, one of the darkest chapters in the history of Atlanta,
which was the murder of a little girl named Mary Fagan and which led to
the ultimately to the lynching of Leo Frank, which was just one of the
darkest chapters in the history of our city. At any rate, Keeler.
Keeler was one of those men that had almost like this classical sense of justice
combined with a ribbeled sense of humor, which I'll tell you about in a
second. But when it came time for my grandfather to start playing, you
have to remember my grandfather was only fourteen years old when he started playing in
national championships, and so Keeler would accompany him to all these tournaments, and
in many ways he ended up being not just a sportswriter but also almost a
sports psychologist to my grandfather Bob. When he was having a hard time before
winning the nineteen twenty three US Open to start the eight strong hardcore years that
he played, Obe was the one who came up to him and he said,
Bob, you are the best golfer in the world. And when you
get that through your head and you really believe it, you're not going to
just win one tournament, but you're going to win a bunch of them.
And that turned out to be exactly true. Keeler also, though I don't
want to just make him out to be just this, you know, this
very sage kind of individual, he also had quite a sense of humor.
In fact, one night when Keeler had been spending the evening in the company
of a woman who was not his wife. The next morning they came downstairs
and she said to me, said, oh, Bie, you said you
were going to write a poem about me, And he said, by golly,
madam, I certainly did. And he sat down and felt it out
something on the typewriter that went my typewriter's most ambitious to ensure your lasting fame.
But the liquor we had was vicious and I cannot recall your name,
and that was Obeque. He was an interesting, interesting man. I had
never had the opportunity to meet him. Oh that's great. Oh that's a
phenomenal story. And Bobby also received an accolade that is just set aside for
those very special moments in the world. And he received a ticker tape parade.
He received two. He received two of them, wow, okay,
and one of them in nineteen twenty six when he came back to the States
after winning the British Open at Royal Litham and Saint Anne's, and then the
other one in nineteen thirty after he won both the British Amateur and the British
so he was only halfway through the Grand Slam at that point. But yes,
he won them, he won the both of them. In fact,
Mayor Jimmy Walker said at that point, he said, you know, when
when he was presenting the key to the City to bub he said, you
know, it could not be foreseen or foreknown that today would bring two great
polls together, namely that the world's greatest golfer should be introduced by the world's
worst golfer. And then he handed my grandfather the key to the City of
New York. So years later, when he was flying up to New York
for some business with Arthur Howell, one of his law partners, they actually
they were. They flew into Kennedy Airport back then it was called Idlewild,
and the plane stopped before it got to the gate, and they opened the
door and brought upstairs, and there were three New York City police cars that
pulled up alongside to give my grandfather, a mister Howell, a ride down
to the Waldorf Astoria. And Arthur just couldn't believe it. He's like,
I just can't believe this is all here for you. And bub just looked
at him. Well, Arthur, that key to the city's got to be
worth something, don't you think. And that's so yeah, So that's right.
He's he's the only one that has had two ticker tape parades and a
police escort. Oh wow, now here we are in April, the Masters.
It's really the opening of the golf season. I'm truly playing for a
while, trying to get out of winter, and it just announces it announces
spring more than anything else. But Augusta National and the Masters really is part
of your family legacy. It is. It very definitely is, and you
know, it's very funny. I mean, of course there are a fewer
each year, but you know, every year when I go back, it's
really fun because I get to see a lot of people that I've known for
most of my life. But the numbers, the number were, you know,
I'm starting to get to the age where that number is starting to get
smaller and smaller each year, which in many ways makes me treasure it even
more. And it's always enjoyable to meet people there who are there for the
first time and are seeing the place for the first time and talking to them
about what the experience is like. You know, as I'm getting older,
I'm finding it more and more important to share, to share, not just
you know, to share, to share legacy in a lot of different ways,
but particularly in that you know, I realized, I realized about twenty
twenty five years ago that if I didn't tell the stories, then that was
leaving my grandfather's legacy to be dictated by people who might not have ever owning
or who might not have the best interest at heart, and so that's become
very important to me. But it's also important when I'm at someplace like Augusta
to meet people. When I meet people, to also find out their experience
and to share some things that have been important to me over the years as
well. And of course, you know, it's always fun to see some
of the changes, Like you know, number five now has got a tea
that's somewhere back I think in Columbia County, which is the next county over
from Augusta. And then they moved thirteen tea back I believe about fifty or
sixty yards for this year. I'll be interested to see that. And yet,
you know, for all the changes that occur at Augusta, and by
the way, even since nineteen thirty five the constant at Augusta has been changed,
it's still fun to see how that golf course still stands up and is
such a firm test to the best players in the world. And I always
enjoy I always enjoy watching them play it. And I'm very grateful that the
club allows me and my family to be very cheer absolutely so, how did
the nineteen was a nineteen thirty four was the first Masters as it was augusta
national. And how did that come to be and what influence did he have?
Well, he co founded the club and co designed the golf course with
Alister mackenzie. His intention had always been to have just a very informal golf
tournament where his friends that were pros could come and gather and you know,
just kick it around a little bit and play a little golf, have a
good time. Cliff Roberts saw it a little differently. He saw this as
being able to become the event thought it is now and so he was the
one, in fact that really pushed for the word Masters to be attached to
it. Bubb hated that term Masters for a couple of reasons. One was
he thought it was extremely pretentious, and then he also thought that a tournament
that was being held in the Deep South in nineteen thirty four in the nineteen
thirties, Masters might not be the best title for it. But by nineteen
sixty, when Palmer had won it the second time, Bub said, I
think Masters might be an apt description now because by then anybody who was everybody
who was anybody in golf, you had to win the Masters to be considered
a really great player. And that's true now too. You really do how
woke of him in nineteen thirties to think to be that considerate of using the
word. I mean, like we're not only we can't even say anymore.
Oh, this is the master your bedroom, no primary bedroom, right,
I can't call it a master by because he's referring to master in Slafe.
Don't do that, right, But it's now the primary bedroom. But I
doubt that the primary golf tournament. I don't think that. I don't think
that Bub would have ever been classified as woke. But it's what he did
have was he did have a very sharp and exquisite sense of fairness that was
important to him. So it's good. Yeah, we're now his grandfather.
We're probably talking the early eighteen hundreds, mid eighteen hundreds. Well know,
he was in Canton, about thirty five miles north and but that was the
he was part of the South, the Confederacy. Oh absolutely absolutely. In
fact, his his father, William Green Jones, and his brothers, his
younger his older brothers actually served in the in the Confederate Army. So yoh
yeah, oh very definitely. I mean remember by the time my grandfather played
in his first tournament, we weren't even we were just like, what fifty
years from the end of the Civil War. Yeah, yeah, so it
was still very fresh in people's memories, right right. I mean like you
and I were born just a decade after World War Two, but it seemed
like, oh, that's ancient history. As you're growing up, and now
as we get to this place in our lives, thinking of ten years before
you were born, it's like, oh, my gosh, that's yesterday.
It is. It absolutely is. And so I mean that that just tells
you something about the environment in which my grand father was raised. So absolutely,
Um, please tell me about the family Foundation, and yes, promote
promote where we can learn more about the centennial. Absolutely, to learn more
about the centennial and about my grandfather in general, you can go to Bobby
Jones dot org, Bobby Jones dot org. The foundation that we support is
Bobby Jones c s F CSF Bobby Jones CSF dot org. And if you
are on Facebook, you can keep up with us on a Facebook page called
Bobby Jones Legendary Golfer And there, you know, every day we'll put up
a new photo or several times a week we'll put up a new photo,
or maybe there's an article that gets published that's interesting and we'll post that.
So that's um, that's how to keep up with us, and you can
fire you discovering new photos. Uh strangely enough, yes, wow, yeah,
and I saw one that was taken of him at Pinehurst the other day
that I'd never seen before in my life. And yeah, people just come
up with them, and anybody that wants to follow me can always just follow
me on my web page, which is dr that's DAS and Delta RS and
Romeo Robert T. Jones dot com. Dr Robert T. Jones dot com.
Excellent, Well, Bob again, it is such a joy to have
you on the show to help kick off spring and get the masters week going
to hear great, incredible, heartfelt stories that can only come from family.
True. Well, thank you, Thank you, Fred. It's always a
pleasure to visit with you, and one of these days we will do it
in person. Bring him my recorder with me. Please stay healthy, my
friend, you too, my friend. Take care of so. During this
conversation that we mentioned that Bobby Jones had won thirteen majors between nineteen twenty three
and nineteen thirty, but that number is based on the majors of the nineteen
twenties, which are different from the majors of the twenty twenties. In addition
to the US Open, which he won four times and winning the Open Championship
three times, he also won the US Amateur Championship five times and the British
Amateur Championship completing his nineteen thirty Grand Slam. Both amateur championships were considered majors
in the nineteen twenties, and again when he retired after wrapping up the Grand
Slam, he was still an amateur and only twenty eight years old. For
historical perspective, Walter Hagen, who won eleven majors between nineteen fourteen to nineteen
twenty nine, is third on the all time list behind Nicholas and Tiger,
is considered the father of professional golf by bringing publicity, prestige, big prize
money, and lucrative endorsements to the game. Last week, I mentioned that
I was considering experimenting with having two guests on the show at once, each
who've been featured on the podcast before I brought it up, and am still
curious as to your feedback on who you'd like to hear, because after this
interview with Doctor Bob Jones the fourth I mentioned the story of my encounter in
Japan last October with the Zen Buddhist monk who had read Zen Golf by Doctor
Joe. Parent Doctor Bob said that he loved that book and the work of
Doctor Joe. I asked him if he'd like an introduction, which he was
incredibly receptive and excited about. Almost immediately they had a successful email exchange and
both reported back to me with their thanks. So I propose that the three
of us record an episode together which they were both enthusiastically open. So stay
tuned for a future episode feature a couple of PhDs who are part of history
and have made history in golf. I want to thank Kiran Healy of Nas
County Courthouse outside of Dublin, Ireland for opening up today's episode as a Golf
Smarter ambassador. Kiran chose to receive Tony Manzoni's video of the Last Fundamental and
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