All right, welcome back. And the book is School World Order. Let
me get this where I'm not getting some glare on its School World Order.
The author is John Klasik, and he I think when I think Jason Barker,
we're telling me about this and actually buying this book and sending it to
me. So thank you, Jason, appreciate it. I'll let me tell
you just a little bit about John, and then we'll let him tell you
about his book. He has an mb an m A in English and has
taught college rhetoric and research argumentation for over a decade. His literary scholarship concentrates
on the history of global eugenics and Aldus Huxley's dystopic novel Brave New World.
He's the author of this book here, School World Order, the technocratic globalization
of corporatized education. And he's a contributor to Unlimited, Hangout New Politics,
the Center for Research on Mobilization. Activists post him many other publications, and
he is also holds a black belt in classical Taekwondo, certified kickboxing instructor under
the Mutai Boxing Association. So be nice to him because and pronounce his name
correctly. I think I do have your name correctly, John Kaisek, Is
that correct? Okay, thank you for joining us, and let's talk a
little bit about this because there's it's a very long list of adjectives there,
technocratic, globalization, corporatized education, but those are all very significant, and
so tell us how you see this folding out. I see your work.
By the way, let me just say this and you actively acknowledge this is
really kind of an extension of what Charlotte does would be began talking about,
but you're bringing it up to date and fleshing it out with the current situation
as well as a lot of the organizations that are behind this. But it
really is global thing. It really is part of the global technocracy as well,
isn't it. Yeah? Definitely, Yeah, it definitely is an extension
of Charlotte's work. One of the most significant things that she did was leak
something called Project Best that was Basic Education Skills through Technology, and effectively,
it was a plan to corporate tize the education system through public private partnerships with
big technology corporations that would implement scnary and operating conditioning to condition students for workforce
training. And I have recently in the last couple of years. I guess
it was after the book. Anyways, recently after the book, wrote a
piece on a package of files that she gave me on something called UNESCO Study
eleven, which was actually sort of the international version of Project Best, or
another way to say that is that Project Best was sort of our domestic version
of this UNESCO project. And so that sort of gives you an overview of
sort of the technocratic, the globalist, and the corporate angle. So the
book basically goes through the evolution of the privatization of big government schooling and then
sort of looks at how that is going to be facilitated through these ed tech
partnerships. And then I sort of go through a series of different technologies that
are being implemented, and those are adaptive learning course where socioemotional biofeedback, wearables,
and then eventually bring computer interfaces that will hook up to social credit algorithms.
There's a lot of stuff there, but you know, basically, you
talk about school world order, and if we understand what the new world order
is, I would say, let's see if you agree with this. This
really when we're talking about global governance, it is a fascist merger of government
and these multinational corporations of technocracy. It's a key part of it. And
so what you do in terms of talking about school world order, you show
how this is being used as a seminal way to establish that new world order.
Getting the kids at an early age. The public private partnerships that are
talking about that is a real concern. Every time we see that. You
know, you understand what is happening with that, a Courson, and you
know, whether we're looking at the green agenda or that we're looking at the
pharmaceutical agenda, there's always these public private partnerships. It's always a merger of
governments and corporations for global governance. And that's what is really happening with the
way these the schools are being redesigned these educational programs. Talk to us a
little bit about what was going on with Betsy Divace, because you talk a
great deal about Trump's education secretary, the corporation that she had before she became
an education secretary, her vision of that, and how she's moving along this
public private partnership and this you know, their vision of what they want to
do with kids. Basically, Yeah, so there's three significant things to play
out as far as divaces corporatization agenda, and so one would be her connection
to a company called K twelve, Inc. Which was the first virtual charter
school that was ever established. It's one of the largest, it might be
the largest in the United States at this point. Was actually created by Secretary
of Education Bill Bennett, who took over the took the torch from THH.
Bell. THH. Bell was the guy that set up Project Best, so
he basically carried on the tenants of Project Best and eventually developed this virtual charter
school out of that. Out of that agenda, Betsy Divos was involved in
the funding of K twelve Inc. Early on. She was also heavily involved
in something called alex SO. That's the American Legislative Exchange Counsel, And what
they do is basically create boiler plate legislative temp plates to hand out to various
state and federal representatives, and then they take that draft and they make their
own bills based on it. And so one of the things that came out
of ALEC was something called the Virtual Public Schools Act, and Divos was on.
She also helped fund ALEC with some of her charter school nonprofits so one
is like the American Federation for Children. And then the third thing that's significant
to note about the boss was that she was invested. I think she was
on the board of trustees or the board of directors of a company called Neurocore
Neuralcore Traffics in EEG wearables. So these are some of the biofeedback wearables.
It's basically a halo or a headband the kids can wear and a data the
egs while they're doing work, and then it takes various algorithms and sort of
tracks. They're personalized learning based on those headbands. That's one of the things
in your book that I thought was very interesting and I had not thought about
this before, and that is how important it is for then we get all
kinds of information about kids. The data mining is so important, and we
see this happening now as we move into artificial intelligence. Everybody is is manic
about sweeping up as much information as they can everywhere, and so that's especially
true of our kids. You know, they have to train their artificial intelligence.
They need massive amounts of data. The more data they can get,
the better their AI is going to be. And so they're trying to grab
the stuff from our kids. And it's not just looking at their test score
results or their essays and anything, but your point's actually looking at their egs
or whatever. They're looking at the brain waves that they've got. It's absolutely
amazing how manic they are about following all this, and very sinister. I
would say, as well, yeah it basically, you know, the way
I looked at it was that you know, they tout this stuff as it's
going to personalize learning for the children, but actually is whatever the children might
be learning from these technologies, the AI is learning more and it's learning faster,
which leads me to conclude the basic premise or the actual the primary goal
is the data mining to develop the AI. It's not the use of the
technology to develop the children. And you know, interestingly enough so the bio
feedback wearables and the learning course where the biofeedback wariables are basically data mining the
students emotional or feeling algorithms. The adaptive learning course where is data mining what
they call their cognitive behavioral Basically, they're thinking algorithms and it's all based on
opera and conditioning stimulus response loops, which you can basically just convert to from
stimulus response to input output and you take that feedback loop and that's basically what
feeds the artificial intelligence. So for people who don't know about what I mean
by stimulus response, it's basically it's the basis of all behavioral psychology. It
was started by Wilhelm Winz. He came up with the first laboratory psychology department
in Leipzig, Germany, and basically his theory was that all of human consciousness,
all of learning, is actually just neurological reflexes to environmental stimuli. So
you know, the classic example would be like Pavlov's dog, and so you
know, you can associate natural responses to natural stimuli. You can condition artificial
responses to artificial stimuli by by putting the two together, right, So associating
the food and the dog, right, the food is the natural stimulati dog
salivates. If you associate the artificial stimuli being the belt, you can associate
that with the salivation. You can condition the dog to salivate. So basically
you move down the line over you know, several decades you get to people
like el Forndyke and eventually BF Skinner and basically he takes this idea of stimulus
response, adds a series of rewards and punishments and puts them in four quadrants
positive and negative, and then converts those stimuli to what do they call learning
stimuli. So he had these analog teaching machines and he basically you know,
so the learning stimuli would be, you know, the the question and multiple
choice matching something like that. The response is how the student performs on that.
So the analog of machines would have a little wheel running of the old
view masters. So it'd be like an analog box to have like a disc
with the different learning stimuli, a different question, answer, short answer,
etc. And then there'd be two slots when where you read that and when
we describe the answer, and as you went forward, it would give you
an automated feedback. And then eventually they would also program some of these to
distribute chocolate to have the reinforcement mechanism. So you just take that concept and
you digitize it and replace the gears and wheels in the paper and pencil with
clicks on a mouse and clicks on a keyboard. Maybe you gamify it,
make it some video games in there, some some other multimedia to make it
more interactive. But the idea is basically the same that we're What they're data
mining is the feedback loop between how the student responds to whatever prompts they have
in the curriculum. And I think one of the things about it, you
know BF Skinner his book Beyond Freedom and Dignity. When I saw that,
and again that's always been a big part of educational curriculum. Karen had that
issues getting our master's de Great Education. It's like, what is that?
And I started reading this is horrific because his idea is that we are all
simply animals and he can manipulate us very quickly. And his training mechanism has
been very effective for training animals, you know, pigeons or dolphins or whatever,
dogs, cats, you know, his operant conditioning, you associate the
clicker chaining training if you've ever seen that, that is very effective. But
they treat us like animals, and he says, you don't have that.
You know, you're there's nothing special about you. It's antithetical to everything that
we believe religiously, everything that our society is based on, the Bill of
Rights and all the rest of this stuff. We don't have intrinsic rights.
We're no different from the animals, and they treat us as animals. And
that's a very telling thing that that's become so central to their point of view.
That's how they see us. And then also the fact that they feel
entitled then to manipulate us for their purposes. And that's what we're seeing with
these corporations and these people. You pull in all the different relationships between people
like Betsy of Us and uh, you know the where they're having meetings and
they've got Bill Gates and and Tim Cook and Betsy DeVos and um uh,
Peter Thiel, all these people who are essentially looking at how they can make
money off of us and also how they can control that's really kind of the
public private partnership, isn't it control for government and money for these corporations.
And they see us as their their slaves to manipulate, don't they. Yeah,
And they basically see us as the term they use as human capital.
And so one of these terms it's often used as human capital management. So
not only are you the are you the workforce drone, but you're you're also
and not only are you the consumer of the products that you produce. But
you are yourself the product, right, you are the you are the reservoir
of data that they're using to basically create this artificial intelligence that will be used
to basically dictate your life through social credit systems that will basically permit a restricted
access to the public square. Commercial service is everything from healthcare, transportation,
housing, education, jobs, may even have you know, China they have
blacklists for you know, so you can't even gather in public and things if
you have you know, a wrong think in some of your social media speech
and whatnot. But you know, as you know, it basically is the
repudiation of anything regarding our notion of a soul or consciousness. Right. And
so for Skinner, you know, basically in that book beyond Freeman Diemity,
what it indicates is that for him, you know, the very notion of
morality, of consciousness, of free will like these are all basically antiquarian sort
of superstitions, uh that have gone by the wayside, and that you can't
actually say that someone is wrong or bad or immoral. You can only say
that the environment that he or she is responding to was not organized properly.
Right. In other words, whatever in all actions this person might exhibit,
is it's not. It has nothing to do with the nature of their own
soul or consciousness. It has everything to do with the stimuli that they're responding
to. And you know, once you reduce human consciousness uh to basically algorithms
to basically stimulus response inputs and outputs, uh, you know, we're left
in a situation, as you sort of alluded to, in which the very
notion of any form of democratic uh self governance is also antiquarian. Because if
there's nothing, if there is no consciousness, right, there is no agency,
then you have no you have there's no justification for you to uh oppose
or to resist any the larger social credit system. Right. If the social
credit system, if we can come up with the data that will make you
behave in the proper manner, it doesn't matter what you might you know in
your in your illusionary conscious to robot, because that's all just ephemeral. It's
like in Homogaeus that's uh you Harari's book where he goes deep into transhumanism,
he equates consciousness basically. The analogy he uses is to the roar an engine
makes as it's flying through the air. Right, The roar that an engine
makes when a plane is flying is entirely secondary. Right, It doesn't actually
propel the vehicle through the sky. Right, It's just it's a secondary effect.
And so for him, right, the inner monologue that you have inside
your head, right, the thing that you recognize as yourself, your consciousness,
your soul, that that's just the roar of an engine makes. It's
right, it's it's it's not actually it's secondary. It's just it's it's the
sounds you hear when all those chemicals bounce around in your head. Wow.
Yeah, But that's the key thing that you mentioned right at the very beginning
of that, the fact that they're going to divorce any morality, any responsibility
for people's actions. And we see that pervasive throughout our society. Well,
you know we can't when the liberals the way they view crime, for example,
Right, we're not going to punish this person. We'll send them in,
we'll rehabilitate them with some manipulation. Of course that never works, but
we're not going to hold them morally culpable for anything. They were just the
product of their environment. Right. You hear that over and over again.
Well, where does that come from. That comes from this pervasive idea BF
Skinner and others of behavioral stuff. But it's also the aspect that we've seen
for the longest time that you know, we know that social media is set
up to observe us. They can make money by observing us. They can
get you know, they can tap into the to the hive mind, which
is what you know Elon Musk is really interested in, I think with Twitter,
you know, knowing what the hive mind is all about, but they
can they can market that, they can make money off of it. And
so we've known for the longest time that hey, you are the product when
it comes to free stuff free social media because they're watching and monitoring that.
But you're now becoming the product in a different way. And of course just
just by collecting all that information that gives them the power to control and to
manipulate us, especially with the ability of government to force us. That's a
concerning thing. But now it's going into another area as they move this into
you AI and grabbing that information with it. Let's talk a little bit about
the charter school thing, because I've talked in the past with Mark Hall,
who's done excellent documentary called Killing d looking at what was the worst case scenario
in a sense of corruption raps, and that is the photological movement and how
much money they were getting out of the charter school stuff. But but talk
a little bit about charter schools as part of the bigger picture of this global
technocracy and this kind of fascist control of our kids from a very early age.
So I see the evolution of the American education system in three broad phases.
So first to just be the compulsory education phase, starting with Horace Mann
in the mid eighteen yards, and there we go through sort of a federalization
phase. It sort of starts actually with like the foundation funding, so your
General Education Board that was created by the Rocket fillers, and then your Carnegie
Institution Carnegie Center for the Advanced me and a Teaching Forward foundation, and then
moving into the development of first the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare
and then eventually the Department of Education. But the third phase is then this
corporatization phase, so you basically force everybody to have to go to a state
school. Then you bloat the budget with federal dollars. And then as we've
seen recently, right when we hit these budget crisis. What happens is this
is this is actually how I started writing the book because during the time when
the governor in Illinois was guy named Bruce Rounder is a big charter school proponent.
There's actually a round charter school. It's named after him. It's in
the Noble Network of Charter Schools in Chicago. And basically what was happening was
the federal they wouldn't pass the budget, which meant they couldn't get state funds,
which meant you couldn't get federal funds. And come to find out,
one of my departments, the adult education department that I was teaching some ged
and at the time was actually ninety percent funded by the federal government. So
that meant that the whole department shutdown. So I broke this article corporatization of
education, and Charlotte saw it, and that was how I got to meet
her and all that. But basically, right they use after blowing getting you
sort of dependent on that federal budget, they sort of pull out the rug
and go, oh, here's the solution. It's these corporate charter schools,
these public private partnerships. And you know the thing about it is and you're
seeing this push right now, right like that, you see it especially as
a sort of an election thing where the Republicans are right pushing a lot of
schools choice stuff is sort of the antidote to all the craziness that's going on
with the wokeness schools right now. But what you have to understand is that
you know the charter schools, what they do is that it's still a government
school because they're subsidized by federal dollars. Right, and once you put the
federal strings attached, right, you're that's right, Yeah, you're we're frozen
there. Okay, Sorry, it froze for a second, but we're back.
Go ahead. Sorry, it's even worse at than just having the government
school because yeah, I saw something FROs Where did I cut at? Uh?
Yeah, it froze, but I think we got you go ahead,
continue with where you were. We didn't lose too much of it. You
were talking about the federal dollars and how they if they control the money,
they control the purse strings, they control what's happening. Yeah, so that's
freezing up again on us. Okay, right, and it's even schools because
are we gonna need to Yeah, let's uh, okay, cut. So
what do I think I think we need to We want to try to reestablish
connection. Yeah, let's try to re establish connection and uh, John,
and we're going to uh, we're gonna cut it, and then we're gonna
recall you. Maybe we'll get something is a little bit better. I don't
know why it's freezing like that. I think it's okay. Should wait Travis
as he thinks you're okay, he thinks you're okay. All right, let's
just go ahead and continue. We're talking about how if they're going to get
the private funds, of course the government is going to control it. They're
going to first bribe people and then they will blackmail you once you get used
to their money. Right, that's what always happens. They go ahead,
right, and it's worse than just the big government school because with the government
school, at least you have an elected school board, right, regardless of
how poorer or whoever might be in charge, you still have access to go
and vote the people out right. With the corporate charter school there that that
doesn't exist, right, they have a corporate board. There is no voting
anybody out right, you're basically stock with it, and so you know,
once if they can convert a large portion of the schooling system to this public
private system, basically what you'll have is the removal of any civil recourse,
any democratic resource to any elected school board or otherwise. The other thing that
should be noted is that the Democrats, the left has have pushed charter schools
just as much. So it's not a right wing thing. It's not a
conservative thing, not just for the reasons that I just laid out. But
you have something. I mean, the Obama administration was one of the biggest
pushers of charter schools. Arnie Duncan, who is the Secretary of Education and
received massive funding from the Bill and Mullindy Gates Foundation. He basically he kicked
off all of the charter school privatization in Chicago before he came to be the
Secretary of Education. And then you have somebody like Kevin Shavis. Kevin Shavish
he belongs to the American Federation for Children, which is that charter school nonprofit
that Betsy new Boss is part of as well. And he was also connected
to I believe it was Jeff Bush's Digital Learning Council and the Digital Learning Council
was what came up with these ten elements for Quality Digital Learning that ALEC adopted
for the Work for Public Schools Act. So what you see here as just
that Democrats Republicans have both pushed it, but they've actually been involved in some
of the same foundations and other institutions to promote this. So I mean,
it's it's not a left right thing. It's it's it's it's just a dialectical
thing. Yeah. Yeah, when you look at these these key things that
they're pushing at us, you see the uniparty in the same way that you
see the public private partnership, you see the Democrat Republican partnership as well jumping
in on this because again it's the massive amount of money that's there. Now,
one of the things that you mentioned I thought is interesting. One of
the things that's driving this with the Republican base, of course, is what
we see in terms of the wokeness in the schools. Well, we got
to have more control of the schools, and they think that they're going to
get that with a charter school. But yeah, talk about this because one
of the things that the corporations have been selling is this whole idea of competence,
and so how does this competence thing play off against the woke stuff that
is out there. Well, so, competency based education is an extension of
something called outcomes based education, okay, and outcomes based education DOVETAILS was something
that was called PPBS Planning, Programming and Budgeting Systems. It actually was developed
by the RAND Corporation, was first used by the military, and then it
was sort of outsourced as a way to plan all the various federal agencies.
And the way that they would plan was based on outcomes based pedagogy in terms
of the education institutions, right, And so what this means is that you
have some uh, some predetermined outcomes of two different categories. One would be
workforce development and the other one would be what I call the political and or
the civic development. And that's basically back in the day they called it values
clarification. Nowadays, you know, it's it's all the critical theory woke stuff.
It's basically the re education of the American populace, transitioning them from traditional
Christian values to you know, this this new basically post Marxist or cultural Marxist
ideology. And then the workforce development would have to do with the basic job
skills that they need. So the way that you train those outcuts. The
way you achieve those outcomes through the PPPs is by training the students too for
particular competencies. Okay, and they could be workforce competencies, but they also
have social emotional learning competencies and the social emotional there's something called casell C,
a se al I can't remember with the first two parts of the acronym A
collaborative collaborative for something social emotional learning, and you know, they have these
vague categories of like you know, uh, teamwork and uh, you know,
grit and self esteem and things like that. But basically you could you
can think of the social emotional stuff is what's driving a lot of the I
guess the look agenda. But the competency based stuff in terms of the workforce
would be uh more I guess promoted more by sort of the right of center.
And for those that don't know, actually the charter school movement was actually
created by the American Confederation of Teachers President Albert Shanker and the AFT. What
was different about the AFT from the NYA was that it was actually the N
is largely considered a union of professional associations. The AFT is considered a trade
union. And so the AFT was really big on partnering with the companies to
basically so that they could get on board with what the industries needed in terms
of training the students for those workforce competencies. And I actually stumbled on a
document where Shanker admits that he met with the Trilateral Commission at one point during
the eighties, and he also said there was the representatives of bankers and representatives
from IBM. So the competency based education is basically the development of the workforce
for job skills, but also some of that woke stuff. Yeah, it's
kind of interesting to me because you know, the left loves us woke stuff
and the right is buying into the competency thing. But what they don't realize
is that those are both all about, as you point out from the very
beginning, is about manipulating the kids. As you know, some you know,
animal devoid of any morality, devoid of any free agency and free will,
any of that kind of stuff. And so it's both of them are
really skinner esque in their manipulation. It's just what their immediate goals are focused
on, and the left buys into one of those and the right buys into
the other one. And yet the reality is is that even competence is not
really what our kids need, is it. I mean, there has to
be something there where they understand the bigger picture. And I'm thinking John back
to R. L. Dabney who was writing about the dangers of government involvement
and education, and he said, you can train people for certain things,
but that's not education. And if you start actually doing education, which in
his mind it was his view of education was completely antithetical to be f skinner.
His whole deal is he said, look, any kind of competency in
training, where you're training people to do stuff, that's all well and good.
That's fine, but you've got to you've got to have people who have
some kind of a moral foundation or religious foundation, and we don't want government
having anything to do with that. And it's gonna be real problematic if government
is involved in that. And and but you know the rest of the stuff
is, if you take that out, you know, what are you going
to wind up with. You're going to wind up with these automatons that have
you know, no moral basis whatsoever. And that's what we're really seeing and
both the woke and the competence stuff, isn't it. It's just the different
angles that people coming out at it with and what they want out of their
kids. And they all see the kids as a product to be manipulated,
don't they. Yeah. I mean, so so you plant out sort of
this this left wing version, this right wing version, this left wing version
sort of being the critical theory and the woke stuff basically a form of called
for Marxism. So that's basically you know, you're you're left your left,
this Heagallion ideology. And on the right, when you talk about the workforce
training, the public private partnerships between the government and these big businesses to facilitate
a planned economy, I mean that's the fascist anger or the right wing version
of Hegelianism. So both so what they both have in common, both philosophically
and history historically. The Hegelianism and you know, Hegold basically believed that it
was a collectivist philosophy. Uh. He basically had this theory that, um,
the history evolves through ideas, there's usually a dominant idea that he called
the thesis and there's you know, the these other ideas that sort of uh
that come in conflict with that uh, and those are the antithesis. And
then through that you come you come to a synthesis. And for him,
the synthesis was expressed in the state, right, so all the contradictions between
the thesis and the antithesis would eventually come together in the evolution of the state,
which he said was God marshing on earth. So UH in both is
basically what you have is uh, two pillars that have built what today is
called stakeholder capitalism, being pushed by the World Economic Format in the Great Reset
and was actually developed in the seventies by Cloud Schwab. And if and when
you look at what are the two tenants of your stakeholder capitalism? Will you
have your public private partnerships, right, but then you also have your your
d EI or diversity equity inclusion based on the different stakeholders and with a particular
emphasis on what they call community based stakeholders. Okay, And this actually leads
us into another This is sort of the left wing counterpart to the charter school
privatization, and that's something called community schools and the way that those privatized is
through something called wraparound services, and these wrap around services in the Every Student
Succeeds act. To be a full service community school, you have to have
these public private wrap around or sometimes they call them pipeline services, and that's
where the school plugs into healthcare, workforce training programs with the in demand industries
in the local areas. And then also like criminal justice so to programs to
prevent at risk youth from becoming delinquents. Um and so again, right,
you see these these sort of this left wing version, this right wing version,
but they both basically come together in the same projects at the end.
Yeah, it's kind of interesting. You're talking about the social emotional learning in
the SEL is what we typically see it abbreviated AS and uh, you know
that that is going in and starting to look at as you point out,
bringing the larger community aspect, the family and that type of thing. But
of course, you know, in their vision, there is no family.
There's just you know, God marching through society in the form of government.
U talk a little bit about what happened during the Trump administration with Betsy Devas
and some of the things that happened there is as I look at this lockdown
the more I look at it, reading your book and their emphasis, Devas's
emphasis on uh, you know, remote learning and monitoring the kids, all
of that is part of it. I thought, well, that, you
know, really played into kind of their vision of a more technological education.
As Charlotte Desser we had talked about, you know, the monitoring what the
kids are doing, feeding it to them through the computer. That was the
way everybody was being forced to operate and do school during the lockdown. Really
helped to advance that. I've talked many times about how it gave parents an
opportunity to see what was happening with the let's CRT stuff and the LGBT stuff
in their in their classrooms. But I think a lot of them didn't really
realize the bigger picture of how it was drawing the kids into this technological paradigm
of getting their education through the computer box. Did they? Yeah. One
of the things that was passed early on during the whole lockdown phase were some
new federal regulations on distance learning and believe the Federal Regulations FR. One eight
sixty three eight. And what they did was this is righting is I don't
want to say it's like April, so this is like a month or two
into into the lockdowns. Before before these new regulations, you had in order
to be accredited. For for a course to be accredited and transferable to other
institutions, you had to have a certain number of what we're known as Carnegie
units, okay, and Carnegie units are measured in terms of um classroom hours,
in other words, hours during which the student is in contact with the
human teacher right in which the student is gaining some form of instruction through interaction
with the instructor. And so with these federal or these new regulations did in
early April of I guess twenty twenty was they authorized the substitution of that that
human human human interactions student to teacher interaction with quote adaptive learning and quote artificial
intelligence. And then the term CBE or competency based education is used over one
hundred times in those federal regulations. So basically what they did was they said,
no, you don't have to have all that human interaction anymore. We
can we can accredit you if just based on the students using adaptive learning courseware,
which as I mentioned, is the modern digital version of the Skinner Box.
And what one thing I should also add about that is that the algorithms
they tell you, like on some of the company, the Adaptive Learning courseware
company, some of them are There's Clever, There's Newton. Both of those
are funded by Peter Field, by the way, who had a private meeting
with the boss at one point, wash you secretary, but then you had
other like Spart Smart Sparrow and then Bright's basically dream Box. And in dream
Box they specifically say not only that the algorithms they use are based on Skinner's
operating conditioning algorithms, but they're also based on the same algorithms that Netflix uses
for behavioral ad advertise. So so built into it is this right It sort
of it gets us back to we're data mining students not just to develop this
AI, but also to enhance our abilities to you know, turn the students
into human human capital resources. Yeah, it's just amazing how manipulated it all
is. And while we're talking about manipulation, you know, we talked a
little bit about BF Skinner define Skinner Box for our audience. Yeah, the
Skinner Box. Um, so it's a play on what was called the puzzle
box. Experiments that were created by E. L. Thorndyke. So you
know whereas um Woot was doing what was called basically associative or classical conditioning right,
just seeing if you could get certain responses in association with particular stimuli.
U el Thorndyke will come with these puzzle box experiments where he put the rat
in the maze right where the pigeon has to click the button or something like
that, right to see not just can you have this, have the animal
associate certain refle is a certain stimuli, but but can you can it be
performative or to use Skinner's term, this is why he uses it operate right.
In other words, could with the with the right schedule and the right
system of stimuli, could you condition the animal to perform operations or procedures right?
And that would be more readily transferable to conditioning a human being to right
perform particular workforce operations. So that term Skinner box was basically just what he
called the little animal the different experiments he did with his animals. But later
when he came up with his teaching machines, he literally said that the that
the teaching machine is my box, right, so for him that you could
use the skinner box both as a reference to the animal contraptions that condition the
animals, but also the early iterations of the teaching machines. And so in
a general sense, you know, what we're looking at are more sophisticated extended
versions of the skinner box. When you're talking about this computer instruction. Uh,
as they're using it, right. Yeah, And honestly, the entire
social credit system is just a giant skinner boxing you think about it, because
everything is basically conditioning you to write through rewards and punishments right through. Like
either you know, in China, if you have a really high social credit
score, you can get discounts on your hotels, or right, you can
you can jump to the front of the line at the doctor's office. Right,
Those would be the rewards. The punishments are like, uh, you
know, you're gonna have to pay extra if you want that beer this week,
or you're gonna have to pay extra, you know, to play this
video game, or you're not allowed in the store today because you're you're not
up to date on your vaccine or whatever it might be. So you know,
everywhere you go, every every institution, public or private right that you're
incentivized to basically gain access through these different digital rewards and punishments. It's interesting
that we see the same thing as being used over and over again. They've
got same mo for everything. You got to monitor everybody, use that to
manipe Waite and course people, but also to have complete, uh you know,
foresight as to everything that is happening. There's also a eugenics aspect to
this as well that you talked about in your book, talk about how they're
applying eugenics and education. Yeah, so it really comes out of the mental
hygiene branch of eugenics. So eugenics back in the day there was two there
was two branches, right, there was what was called race hygiene, and
then there was mental hygiene. And the race hygiene is most well known in
terms of Hitler's you know, attack on Jews and other ethnic populations that were
not airing. Right. And so basically also here in the United States would
say, you know, Margaret saying her intention to you know, board black
kids, you know, because she didn't like black kids, that type of
thing. Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent, And you know, and
it was the Rockefeller Foundation from here, right that funded the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute
for Anthropology, Human Heredity, and Eugenics. And then you had people like
Charles Avenport, who was pen pals with some of the people that were running
some of the Kaiser Villehulm institutes. One of them would have been Fritz Lens.
There was a couple others that escaped me right now, but so so
the so the Hilarian eugenics project was actually an extension of the American corportization of
the British eugenics project. It started with really with Darwin and then ultimately his
cousin basically took that idea of natural selections that we can basically control evolution,
we can steer it through what you call positive eugenics. So that was like
inbreeding between the elites and the negative eugenics, which was to sort of call
the gene pool from the unfit, and that would be like sterilization, uthan
asia abortion, okay, And those would have been applied in terms of race
hygiene just based on your ethnic lineage. But let's say, you know,
let's say you you fit the ethnic profile to be acceptable to to you know,
Hitler or whoever. If your IQ was too low or you had some
other mental issue, right, well, you still needed to be sterilized or
otherwise segregated from society, and that was called the mental hygiene. And one
of the aspects of mental hygiene was based on the IQ tests, which were
developed the early Simon's ben A IQ tests, and so basically what they would
do is, you know, you had your meme was one hundred, and
then every ten points below that deviation from the average was considered either and these
were like scientific terms at the time. He had like moron, idiot,
imbecile, like these were categories that would render you to be either you know,
putting a home or sterilized, etc. So based on this theory,
what you get over time was well basically gets brought back with the Bell curve.
And Charles Murray wrote the Bell curve. And by the way, he
has attended builderberg meetings. Yeah, he's pushing a universal basic income now as
well. You know, he's one of these guys talking about losing ground and
how the welfare system had not worked. But now he's out there pushing universe
versal basic in comp I didn't know that he had attended the builder Bergs,
but that makes perfectly good sense. Yeah, and I noted that in the
book that you know, this libertarian guy is for a UBI, right.
And what's funny is one of the things they used to justify their data was
something called the flint effect. And the flint effect basically said this that.
So the question was, you know, after after we discovered the horrors of
the Holocaust, you know, eugenics became this four letter word, and they
changed a lot of a lot of The Eugenic Society has changed their name,
so the British Eugenic Society became the Gulf Institute recently changed its name again like
this year, last year, I can't remember what it is. UM.
The the American Eugenic Society is something like the Society for the Study of Social
Biology, Okay, but basically it went underground into something called crypto eugenics UM
and UM those would have been things like you know, basically, you know,
it was Friedrich Osborn, you know, the abortion was for him a
good use for um a crypto eugenics and sort of you know what we saw
in terms of the concerns of overpopulation over the over the decades that sort of
culminated in UM in uh, you know, the one child policy in China.
These were all these were also you know for people like Osborne, who
by the way, was a member of the American Eugenetics Society, that these
were these were also methods of crypto eugenics. Okay, But so so people
started to wonder or the question was was that IQ score based on genetics or
was it based on the environment. And so they started to do some studies
over time that showed that IQ scores had had risen over over the decades,
and they attributed a lot of a lot of that too, access to education
and things. But what what they also studied, Um, so somebody like
Jim Flynn, he would have looked at them and said, see this means
that uh to the and and none of these guys are just in one camp
or the other. It's sort of like, right, it's a ratio like
how much of it is genetic, how much of it is environment But for
Jim Flynn it's more environmental, Dadnport or Charles Murray, people like that,
Richard Lynn. Um, I'm trying to think of some of these other guys
that were part of the Pioneer Fund, which was basically this is basically this
white supremacists think tank, you had people like Felipe A. J. Rushton,
ARFM. Jensen, Um, Linda Godferdson, okay um. And basically
what people like that would have said is they look at the Flint effect and
say, okay, yeah, you're right. Look you can you can increase
people's IQ with environmental conditions, right, so access to education stuff. But
they said, look, the deviation stays the same, meaning, right,
Whites are still at one hundred average Black, brown people, right are going
progressively less. And then Askenazi, Jews and Asians are always a box.
So like so like, even though you can increase the the the IQ with
with education and other things, right, the deviation stays the same. So
somebody like Murray says, this means that we have to personalize education based on
a students genetic IQ. And so they so the burgeoning trend is called precision
education, and it's a play on precision medicine, which is a burgeoning field
that basically wants to treat all ailments it personalize them by treating them based on
your genetic code. And so one of the ways that they're building the data
to sort of um apply this to education is you know through companies like twenty
three and me where when you send your data, your your DNA in there
and you ask them, hey, what's what's my ethnic image? You can
also check this box and this box says something like can we use your data
your DNA for research? Well, if you say yes, right, they'll
try to find sequences in there that correlate with other other physiological or mental conditions.
And maybe it's allergies, maybe it's IQ. And they've got a whole
set of stuff on different different sequences that they think right correlate to IQ.
And I should mention that some of the that the correlations between these DNA sequences
and IQ is it's not much more than fifty per which isn't that high,
right, Like you when you're talking about feeling typic stuff like you know,
skin color, hair type, but it's like ninety percent right, I mean
like Mendel could could predict it, you know, just doing his his Punnett
squares with roses and peas and stuff. When it comes to IQ, you
can't, you can't do it like that. But they think you know that
it's for them there if it's you know, just like they do with pharmaceuticals.
If it's more than fifty percent. Uh you know what I mean?
That means that means it's ethicable, right, um. And so they want
to so they want to take that. And as a guy by the name
of Robert Plouman, he's actually signed in the Bell curve and he wants to
he wants to apply it through something called the Learning chip that would basically keep
a record of not just your genetic IQ, but perhaps other learning disabilities.
And then that would that would set you on the trajectory of what types of
adaptive learning course where or what types of wearables you'll need to get you to
the competencies and the outcomes that they had planned through the PPVs and everything else.
Wow, So they're gonna they're gonna look at that and they're going to
kind of send you down a track where very very much like a brave New
World did you talk about, you know, where maybe they're not manipulating people
in the hatcheries, but they're going to manipulate you as you go through the
school system to make you somebody who's going to be a janitor or somebody's going
to be a CEO. They put you on these different tracks based on how
they so called analyze your genetic makeup, which they currently don't know yet.
Talk a little bit more about these wearables, because that's one of the creepiest
things. Where are we with that? I haven't seen much of that in
terms of you know, Betsy Devace's um, what was their their neuron um
the company that she had, Neurocor Neurocor. Yeah, I haven't seen much
of that. What is the status of that? Is that really? Is
that still kind of experimental? Have they rolled that out anywhere? What kind
of devices are they are they working on? You know, I was busy,
busy, busy, but I thought last night and then this morning busy
he was like, I should have sent him you. I should have sent
you the there's a clip, okay, and anybody can check it and I'll
send it to you afterwards. You can play it on your next episode.
It's a if you go to if you go on YouTube and you just type
in brainco China WSJ for Wall Street Journal, you're gonna get a short little
documentary that shows you how in China how they're using a particular wearable called the
Focus one headband. It's developed by a company called Brainco. It was developed
by a team of Harvard academics in partnership with the Chinese State Over Electronics Corporation.
And in this and in this short documentary which we'll see is classrooms of
students with the halo on their head, and it's feeding that data into a
dashboard on the teacher's desk, and then the teacher is going to monitor that
and then you know, basically what's showing is are the students paying attention?
Are they frustrated, are they daydreaming? Are they enjoying the curriculum? All
these types of things, and if somebody's algorithms go funky, that the teacher,
I guess is supposed to interceed, right, and it's maybe help get
them back on track. It'll take that data and it'll send it to the
parents so the parents can punish you if you weren't following instructions as well.
And then it goes into the broader social credit database and they show they show
basically, I mean not just the classroom aspects, but they just show you
know, the broad and social credit infrastructure with all the surveillance grid technologies that
are basically all all tracking that data and that associating it with your your digital
idea or your biometric idea as you move through real space in virtual space.
But in the United States where we're at with wearables is actually there's a company
called heart Math. So so right now we've talked about the egs, the
headbands that data mind the brain lives, but there's also wearables that data mind
the heart rate. And one of the companies that does that is called heart
Math, and I wrote a body in my book they do. They have
two products. One is called m Wave your other one's called Inner Balance,
and it was largely piloted, as most of the stuff is, it's piloted
to help usually at first with people who have learning disabilities, so like this
was supposed to help students with like who have test anxiety. So we're supposed
to put the heart rate monitor on before you, you know, before you
get really worked up on the test. And they have like meditations like breathing
exercises that, by the way, are trademarked, so I guess you're not
allowed to use them outside of the premises or the purview of the product.
They even owned and control how you breathe, right, Yeah, And it's
funny because it's just like it's like it comes out of this new age company.
They have a for profit branch in a nonprofit branch, and they have
this multi level marketing sort of system where you know, basically you can be
a heart map coach, right, you can train people to use this trademarked
breathing technique. But you know what I mean, they're they're all into this,
you know, communitarian, collectivist, you know whatnot. But but yet
they trade a completing technique, right, technological device that it's going to data
mind you. But so the students use that to like kind of get calmed
down before they before they take the test. And just recently, I maybe
a month or two ago, I got an email from one of the colleges
where I teach, one of the community colleges where I teach, I'm gonna
ad jump. So I bounced around at different community colleges. Um, they're
using it at one of those schools now so um, so it's and I
think it was it was in partnership with the health and Wellness Center or something
like that. So it's not like in the classroom. But you know,
if you're having some stress, you know about studying or something. I guess
you can go to the health and wellness center and they'll look you up to
one of these things and you know, you'll do some meditation or whatever and
you'll you'll it'll give you one point. I can't think of anything more stressful
than even from an early age, like you're talking about the kids in China,
knowing that you know if you're it's going to know if you're paying attention
or not, and how good you're paying attention and watching everything that you're doing,
feeding it into essentially your permanent record, and this is going to set
you on a trajectory for what you'll be allowed to do in your life.
We're seeing this happening, John, with the Amazon drivers who have every bit
of movement that they're doing is being watched and analyzed and reported, and you
know that kind of pressure that's being put on people, and this is the
kind of you know, as you're talking about these different aspects and about the
eugenics aspects of this and everything makes me think of all the worst aspects of
all these dystopian films like not just um, you know, Brave New World,
but also things like Gattaca, you know, where they're gonna, you
know, put you on one track or the other based on their assessment of
your genetics and your capability. It's such a horrific thing. And yet,
you know, when you look it seems to me that's kind of where the
competency part mels with the the wokeness part. You know, where they're going
to categorize you and put you in a in a box based not on your
skin color or your chosen gender or this or that, but also now based
on how they have identified you with your genetics. You're not going to have
a chance to try to change at some point in your life, or have
a chance to to really buckle down and work on your merit, and you're
going to be pigeonholed by these people and they're going to control you for the
rest of your life. What a horrific model these people have. What do
we do to try to pull back against this? Of course, a big
part of it is your book School World Order pulling as people get here,
You've got a tremendous breadth and depth of understanding about the relationships and the history
of this stuff, and so that's what's really good about this book. But
other than educating ourselves about where these people want to go and the tactics that
they're going to use. What would you say the best way to defend against
this is so when I wrote it, you know, I'm a public educator,
I came out of public education, and when I wrote it, you
know, this was it was kind of prescient because it was published in over
twenty nineteen. It was only a few months until lockdowns came, and then
basically everything that I thought I had about ten years to warn people about was
basically thrust down our froth, right. I mean, we were just all
plugged into the computers twenty four hours a day. Right at the time,
you know, I was hoping that there might might be some way to try
to reform public education. So I had like a five point program in there.
The first one was to local control public control, right means locally elected
school boards, no public private partnerships. The other one was to ban the
behavioral educational psychology as a methodology for teaching. That doesn't just mean with technology
and data mining. It means, you know, the whole reward and punishment
system with gold stars and detentions and all that type of stuff. To the
extent that we use technology. This is the third premise. There should be
no data mining involved, certainly no biometric psychometric data mining. And then the
last two had to do with a return to the classical method, which is
grammar, logic rhetoric grounded in civics and history rather than social studies and critical
theory, with an emphasis on history of philosophy, um, and but then
grounded in metaphysics. Right. And you know, it's it's one of the
denser chapters because you know, I'm not quite saying, you know, God,
but I am right? Because right, truth is objective and morality is
objective. That means it's metaphysical. Right, It means it comes from right,
beyond our social conditions. Right, it comes from the universe, God,
nature, however you want to call it. Right. And so I
thought that, you know, if we could at least have a discussion of
metaphysics in a in an educational setting, which is totally gone right, all
philosophy, all postmodern philosophy, there is no discussion of metaphysics or ontology.
And that that's what gets us to this relativistic state where we can transmute the
human person through merging with technology or changing the categories of identity with all this
woke stuff, right. But you know, in the wake of the lockdowns
and the mandates, I've been promoting, you know, homeschooling one hundred percent,
homeschooling, pods, coops, finding people in your bhood, all these
other all these other premises still apply. It's just that rather than rather than
trying to reform from the inside, I say, we have to build uh,
an organic, a truly community based homeschooling system. And you know,
to do so, uh, you know, you'll you'll need to, you
know, hopefully find some people around you that are good at that. But
you know what I'm trying to do, like I'm trying to put some courses
together through Autonomy University that's Richard Groves Organization, and so sort of a basket
of these these different off you know, non accredited, non institutional approaches um
as as sort of a as sort of a broader basket. That's that would
be the back. I couldn't agree with you more. You're absolutely right.
It's moved too quickly, and it's gone too far, and it's too pervasive
in terms of governments and corporations and all the political parties are in on this
thing. The institutions have totally been taken over, and I really do think
we have to do this on a parallel manner. And you're absolutely right,
you know, one of the best ways that people can look at it if
it's a very rigorous way to go, but a classical education is really ideal.
And to get people to think about things as you're pointing out, you
know, when you know, picking out the metaphysical and going really with this
skin esque thing, focusing just on us as um you know, our animal
nature essentially, which is what they're trying to do to control us. We
have to pull back from that and look at the bigger picture and that really
truly is the anecdote and that has to be a part of our education,
critical thinking and all the rest of the stuff. But laying that foundation that
is there, getting kids to think about the bigger picture instead of just the
immediacy of what they're going to do. I think that is one of the
most important ways that they have purged God out of the schools. You know,
they focus on these things. Well, we can't have a silent prayer
even in schools anymore. That's that's just the tip of the Iceberg. That
is just a little superficial thing that really didn't matter. What is really mattering
is what you talked about the fact you can't even have these discussions and you
will never really have these discussions. One of the things R. L.
Dabney was saying is if you're going to pull this in into the government,
whose version of a reality, of metaphysical reality, of religion of spirituality,
whose version is going to be taught. That's why I agree with you.
It's got to be done in kind of a parallel way. It's got to
be parents who are in control. And there's a lot of people who are
looking for this now, and I think that's that's the key thing. So
you're putting together a curriculum as well. Yeah, So, I mean I've
I've tried to do some of it on my own. I have like a
really short video on introduction to the Trivium on my YouTube and my bit shoot.
One of the things that Richard Grove is going to help me out with
is is you know the time it takes to edit and everything like that.
So the first thing I'm going to do is just do a crash course in
the book. But eventually I want to do with he's on rhetoric. I
think he has some series on philosophy and on basic trivium stuff with some other
creators. And the thing I think that's important about developing these types of courses
is that another issue that's not that I didn't touch on the book, but
is always sort of I think I've always kind of known it intuitively, but
helped bring it to the forefront of my consciousness was a friend of mine who's
part of the Undercover Mothers, and she has told me that the private schools
are just as bad with a lot of this wolk stuff, and of course
they want the vouchers, which would just you know, would basically federalize them.
And so, but the reason why the private schools do that is because
of the national crediting agencies like the National Association of Independent Schools. So,
in other words, one of the concerns that you know, adults or parents
have when they bring your kids to a school or when they're thinking about making
the decision to move to homeschooling is like, how is my child going to
get a good job or be able to go to a good column, or
right are they going to be afforded the opportunities that they would be afforded from
an accredited school. Right. And so at the end of the day,
education is really it's not teaching you, right, it's not teaching you how
to think, it's teaching you what to think. But more importantly it's teaching
you. It's it's accrediting you, right for your giving you those competency certificates
that you can fit into the planned economy. So we have to actually also
break away from the accreditation system through this process of homeschooling and independent coursework.
And one more thing I want to add is that this doesn't mean so when
you take your kids out of the public school and your homeschool, you can
still go to that public school board meeting and you can still right, be
very careful and polite because you're you know, because they want to label you
a terrorist, which they've done to many people. But you're still paying taxes.
So just because your child isn't in that school doesn't mean you still have
every right to go in there and politely with rhetorical savvy right, explain you
know what reforms you would like. You can you can continue to run for
school board, so you know agree, So these two tracks. I think,
I think we need to work them both at the same time, Right,
both of our dollars get out and still put pressure on them through the
civic sphere. Yeah, Alex Newman has has put it. He says,
so your kids are in a burning building, first thing you get to do
is get them out, and then the second thing you do is work with
other people in the community to put out the fire so it doesn't burn down
the entire community. That's exactly what you're talking about. Get your kids out,
take care of your kids. But at the same time, you can
still engage the school institutions because it's going to have an effect on the entire
community. You're absolutely right. Yeah. And the other part of it I
just underscored as well, that whole thing about accreditation. If they can hold
that over you, you know, like the Wizard of Oz at the end
of the movie. You know you want to get that medal saying that you've
got a brain or courage or whatever. If they can hold that over you,
they've got you. If they're going to hold out this accreditation thing,
that means that they're then going to define the test and then the curriculum is
going to then teach to that test so that you can get those medals at
the end. What the end product that you want from your kid at the
very end is the ability to think and also to have a kid who doesn't
graduate with honors, but a kid who is honorable. And if you focus
on that and the real stuff, it'll everything will work out in the end.
John, is great talking to you. It's an amazing book. I
can't say enough good about this again. The book is Social World Order by
John Klizak. Right, is that the way I pronounced your ring correctly?
The technocratic globalization of corporatized education. Thank you so much. It's a fascinating
interview, fascinating book. I highly recommend it. We'll get you back on
sometime. Thank you. That's nice game. All right, that's up for
the broadcast, folks. Thank you, have a great weekend. Thanks for
listening. The common man they created common cored and dumbed down our children.
They created common past to track and control us, their commons project to make
sure the commoners own nothing, and the communist future. They see the common
man as simple, unsophisticated ordinary, but each of us has worth and dignity.
Created in the image of God, that is what we have in common.
That is what they want to take away. Their most powerful weapons are
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