WEBVTT 1 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:28.000 Hello there, everybody, and welcome back to the disc Connected. I am 2 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:32.960 here with a very special guest for me, and that is the esteemed Sam 3 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:36.880 Degan. Sam, how are you good? How are you doing well? 4 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:40.600 I have always admired your work, and I don't want to lay it on 5 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:44.039 too thick or anything right now, but there are so many people out there 6 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:49.039 that just the name Sam Degan being associated with a piece of physical media of 7 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:52.520 any sort lately is almost a reason to pick it up by itself. So 8 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:57.280 first of all, from the community, a humble thank you, and for 9 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:00.799 me personally, thank you for agreeing to come onto the show. I mean 10 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:04.680 a huge thank you for me for all the support. It's very appreciated. 11 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:10.840 For those that don't know Sam has been involved in it seems like almost everything 12 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:15.280 at this point, from appearing on basically every label from eighty eight Films to 13 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:19.280 Vinegar Syndrome and Arrow and even some of the more obscure ones. You've done 14 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:23.799 quite a lot for something like Second Run and breaking into some of the other 15 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:26.959 more interesting titles lately, and I appreciate you for that. But you also 16 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:30.799 are a writer. You've put out is it just three books so far on 17 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:37.280 your own yeah. So I did a book on gen Rolin with spectacular optical 18 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:41.120 as an editor, and I co wrote a big chunk of the book. 19 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:46.599 But then I have done two solo books. One is on Fritzlan's film m 20 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:51.799 and the other is called The Legacy of World War Two and European Art House 21 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:57.560 Cinema, which came out last year. Maybe COVID time is blended or crazy. 22 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:04.480 The other big thing is Sam is always present on Twitch of the Death 23 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:09.120 Nerve, which is a podcast and which has led to a very robust Patreon, 24 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:14.479 and I just the amount of content that gets pushed out there is astonishing. 25 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:16.879 I don't know how you do it. I don't either, because I 26 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:23.639 do also have a day job, and it's there are definitely days like today 27 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:28.439 where I just it's like I'm excited and I'm actually right now in the middle 28 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:31.719 of researching something for the next book I'm working on. So it's like I'm 29 00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:37.319 excited, but I'm tired. Oh yeah, this weather can't help with that 30 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:40.560 at all. No, it is. It is miserable out there, and 31 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:44.520 we just past the fourth of July and I think we got up to ninety 32 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:47.280 eight here. But I hear out by you in some places got to like 33 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:54.319 one oh five even Yeah, we I think it's like it gets around that 34 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:59.840 temperature here, but it's also just so humid, Like that's the real problem. 35 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:06.080 Step outside feels like you're in a gross shower. Yes, uh so 36 00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:10.199 the big thing obviously, I talk about physical media constantly, and obviously with 37 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:15.599 what's behind you and what you contribute the bulk of your life to, you 38 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:17.759 seem to appreciate it as well. So had you originally get into physical media 39 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:23.439 and appreciating it, Well, I guess it started from a pretty early age. 40 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:28.240 I mean, you know, I've loved weird movies since I was a 41 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:32.319 kid, and pretty much the only way I could watch them was either by 42 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:38.159 finding some weird shit on TV at two in the morning or going to a 43 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:42.879 video store and running them. And later, when I, you know, 44 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:46.840 had an allowance, I could buy tapes, which I wish I still had 45 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:51.159 those, but same But as you could see, I, you know, 46 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:54.439 have replaced it with plenty of things, and there are still tapes around the 47 00:03:54.439 --> 00:03:59.840 house. I've only got a handful left. But man, I really want 48 00:03:59.879 --> 00:04:01.879 to try to keep at least one piece from each of the physical media like 49 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:08.599 eras, just to be able to show the evolution and it is exciting to 50 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:12.280 see you talk about things like that. And I'm curious, how did you 51 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:15.120 originally I mean, you said you liked weird movies from when you were young. 52 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:16.879 Is there a couple that really set that off when you were younger? 53 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:27.240 Definitely Vincent Price. I'm not sure what the first Vincent Price movie I saw 54 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:32.040 was always watching Over Me from Behind? Ah, yeah, it probably was 55 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:38.360 also on Haunted Hill, but oh nice. I know that there were those 56 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:43.360 like, you know, those great blocks of programming in October where the whole 57 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:47.279 month you could find horror movies on TV, and that I think is how 58 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:50.639 I was introduced to him. But then it just sort of turned into trying 59 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:57.560 to find every Vincent Price movie I could, and classic universal horror as well, 60 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:01.000 and right just sort of went out of con roll from there. So 61 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:05.199 on the contributing side, how did you originally get into contributing to some of 62 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:13.439 these physical media releases? So? I think my first contribution was for Mondo 63 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:19.120 Maccabre's release of Symptoms. I did an essay for it, and this is 64 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:28.639 probably six years ago, maybe six or seven years ago, and at that 65 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:38.240 point I had been on this crazy project where I had this blog where I 66 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:42.319 started this like monthly challenge for myself to see if I could write a review 67 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:46.160 every day, which is basically how I trained myself to be a writer. 68 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:49.079 Like I went to school. I have a degree in English literature, so 69 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:56.680 it's like I have formal training. But when you're trying to be really prolific 70 00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:02.040 making yourself write every day seen crazy. But it helped so much. And 71 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:06.600 I think even though it was really a project that I started just for myself, 72 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:13.879 it sort of got my name out there and I pitched them at one 73 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:16.920 point blindly and said, hey, if you ever need essays, you know, 74 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:20.720 I'm this dumb idiot who has a blog, and they were like, 75 00:06:20.839 --> 00:06:25.519 you know who you are. She's like what. So then they hired me 76 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:30.360 to do Symptoms. And around that time, I also had just started the 77 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:36.040 Daughters of Darkness podcat podcast with Kat Ellinger, and so she and I kind 78 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:42.120 of got into commentaries and things like essays or right around the same time. 79 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:46.800 Right, and both of you seemingly, I mean, you use the word 80 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:48.920 prolific, and that is to a point, it's kind of understating it, 81 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:54.480 especially when you have a true daytime job. And I mean, if you 82 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:58.199 just look at like Keino Lobert, do you know how many commentaries you've done 83 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:03.439 for Keno? Offhand? I don't, but when I first started, so 84 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:09.319 my Patreon is a little over a year old. And part of why I 85 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:14.160 started it is because people kept writing me saying like, you don't have a 86 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:17.160 website. Is there a list? Is there somewhere I can go to find 87 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:20.600 all of your work? And I was like, okay, well I'll start 88 00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:28.160 this. Probably no one is gonna be interested. And I think I've published 89 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:30.800 maybe two or three versions of the list now. It is very long. 90 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:38.759 It's kind of embarrassing. But I have this problem where when people ask me 91 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:41.199 like, oh, tell me some things that you've done, I'm like, 92 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:44.079 I don't know, I don't know what my name is. I have to 93 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:49.079 look at the list. It's way too long. I believe the last version 94 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:53.519 is almost exactly a year ago now, was July of last year, and 95 00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:58.959 I've got that linked in the description below. And for the number of titles 96 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:03.240 that you've posted on, I mean, it is astonishing that you're able to 97 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:07.519 keep a straight thought like you just said, is it is beyond prolific and 98 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:13.920 literally just hearing the name Sam Degan on a commentary, I always say on 99 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:18.240 this channel that that alone is a reason to buy the release. And I'm 100 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:24.839 curious, because the commentaries are so well thought out, can you share even 101 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.079 a hint of what your process is, because they appear to be so well 102 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:33.159 researched that it genuinely sounds like film school sometimes, Well, thank you, 103 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:39.759 I really appreciate that, And I do think having academic training helped because I 104 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:46.679 approach doing commentaries the way I like Basically, I set them up like I'm 105 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:54.759 giving a lecture, and I usually watched the movie and note down like key 106 00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:00.279 scenes that I want to talk about. I'm not a big fan of of 107 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:05.120 the commentary style where you're just like constantly telling people what's on screen a great 108 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:11.039 so I usually it's like, if if something important is happening that I know 109 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:16.480 I want to discuss, Like if at the hour mark, you know, 110 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:22.799 Peter Cushing cuts Christopher Lee's head off, which you know spoilers that never happens, 111 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:24.639 but if it did, it's something I would want to talk about in 112 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:30.720 a commentary. But generally I just try to frame it the way I would 113 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:33.679 a lecture, So, like, what are the major points I want to 114 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:39.919 cover, like the people involved, the time period, like what other films 115 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:43.600 does this relate to? How is it different? And so I mean they 116 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:52.840 are basically like little mini film classes. They are. And when you're when 117 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:56.440 you're constructing these, are there a handful of sources that you go to or 118 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:00.279 do you genuinely just have all of the stored in your brain because at this 119 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:07.360 point it can't be that second one now. So it's so I try to 120 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:15.399 like balance it because doing commentaries is a lot of work. And there are 121 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:20.120 some films that I could talk about just like off the cuff because it's a 122 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:24.120 subgenre that I know really well, or maybe it's a director I know super 123 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:30.080 well. And in that case, usually I'll just make notes reminding myself of 124 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:33.639 like names that I have to bring up and dates and things like that. 125 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:37.840 But there are times where I'll take commentaries where I have to do more research 126 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:43.919 because otherwise it's not fun for me. It's like, if I'm not getting 127 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:50.600 to constantly I'm addicted to doing research. I think it's the problem. A 128 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:52.759 lot of good read excuse me, a lot of good writers are that the 129 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:58.159 same way. So it shows and I just appreciate that approach because really with 130 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:03.639 commentaries, there is that fine line between two scholarly and also entertaining, and 131 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:07.080 that perfect balance in the middle. There's a handful of people that get there. 132 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:09.720 You get there, and kat Ellinger can get there, and you know 133 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:13.840 that Nathaniel Thompson does really well, and there's a handful of others. But 134 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:20.080 I appreciate that voice that can come in there and make me feel entertained just 135 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:24.120 by listening to things that I'm learning, and I, yeah, it is 136 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:28.600 a wonderful gift on some of these disks. Yeah, I think it's a 137 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:33.759 difficult balance to strike because, like, my brain does tend towards the academic 138 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:41.320 right. But I also like the reason I wound up not and I've been 139 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:46.080 to grad school like four times. I love grad school. It's very expensive, 140 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:56.399 but I also find academia to be not a very creatively productive place. 141 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:05.080 It is exclusionary. And you know, the way I feel about cinema and 142 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:09.519 film knowledge is like everybody and art in general is everyone should be able to 143 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:13.240 access it. And there are definitely certain things where you know, watching a 144 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:18.879 film or looking at a painting, your appreciation of it might be enriched if 145 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:22.039 you understand some of the background, which is where commentaries come in. But 146 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:28.000 it's like when it's too dry and academic and you're throwing out jargon that people 147 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.759 might not have any context for, it's like you're trying to turn them off, 148 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:37.399 right, which is why I think I enjoy being able to like let 149 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:46.559 my enthusiasm come out sometimes, which sometimes it's difficult to repress. I will 150 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:50.399 say the liner notes that you have contributed to as well, and even there's 151 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:54.399 been some video essays as well that you've done. That really they give that 152 00:12:54.440 --> 00:13:01.440 extra context. But my favorite thing is when they it's hard to explain. 153 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:03.639 It's like they start building a bridge and make me want to go do my 154 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:11.039 own research because they're just that taste into either a certain genre or era of 155 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:13.320 film, and you go, damn, I just want to know more. 156 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.279 All she did was make me excited. That's great to hear because that's usually 157 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:24.679 how I like. I have chronic lifelong insomnia, and there are nights where 158 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:28.320 like I could have gone to sleep early, but instead I went down some 159 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:37.039 like link clicking rabbit hole trying to just you know, read more articles what 160 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:41.120 I feel like my life is turned into because just glimpsing of me. I've 161 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:43.279 got two special needs kids, so I'm at home a lot and caring for 162 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:46.240 them, and I'll be, you know, one of them falling asleep or 163 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:50.679 something, and I'll put on a commentary and I'll open a tab on something 164 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:52.480 that I need to read later, and then five days later, I've got 165 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.200 like seventeen links that I just go through and read for hours at a time. 166 00:13:56.840 --> 00:14:03.759 In a way, I appreciate that so much with the process. One 167 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.399 of the things that I try to do on here is sort of bring positivity 168 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:11.960 and quell some of the entitlement in the hobby. And there are a lot 169 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:15.440 of people that are this cost you much, or it didn't get to me 170 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:20.399 fast enough, or why am I seeking out this movie for the fourth time, 171 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:24.679 And just to sort of dive into why this is so important, could 172 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:28.919 you share perhaps how long some of these take, Like if you're doing all 173 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:31.120 the research for some of these commentaries. A lot of people think that you 174 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:33.919 just go in and record and it's two hours and you're done and you got 175 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.799 a paycheck, so why should you be worried about it? But there's a 176 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:41.480 real story behind it. Yeah, it's not like that at all. I 177 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:46.600 mean, there probably are some movies like it hasn't been announced, so I 178 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:52.879 can't say what it is. But I recently did like a dream commentary on 179 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:56.639 a movie that I have watched obsessively for like twenty years now, so I 180 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:01.240 know everything about this movie. And basically that's what I did. I just 181 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:05.679 like hit record and just talked and was like, okay, well now we're 182 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:09.559 done. It's almost never like that though, right. Sometimes it's easier when 183 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:13.960 you're recording with another person that you're familiar with, because you're basically having a 184 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:20.000 discussion with them. But I prefer to do solo commentaries because they're just easier 185 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.840 to prepare for, right. And I mean, so you watch the movie 186 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:30.679 once or twice, and presumably it's a movie you've already seen a few times, 187 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:37.480 and then it's I don't know, five or six hours to make notes, 188 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:43.639 Like I make one page of notes for every ten minutes of runtime, 189 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:48.879 and that takes a long time. And if it's something that's more obscure, 190 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:58.360 like I recently did two commentaries for Keino's Miklos Young show box Set and Hungarian 191 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:03.399 Cinema. Thing that not a lot of people are familiar with is a niche. 192 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:11.360 It's an academic specialty. And years ago Kat and I did an episode 193 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:17.200 on one of his films and we wound up going down this rabbit hole and 194 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:22.480 watching like twenty films in a week and a half. And so sometimes that's 195 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:29.399 what happens. It's like you spend the whole week doing research because the thing 196 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.200 that you want to talk about is so obscure, and there's very little information 197 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:37.480 online or in libraries, and so it's like you just have to pull from 198 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:41.960 whatever sources you can. And it's like the more obscure it is, the 199 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:45.559 more work it takes, for sure. And obviously I'm not going to ask 200 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.679 you to dive into figures here, but a lot of people are under the 201 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:55.399 assumption that people doing this are loaded now because commentaries make good money, and 202 00:16:55.879 --> 00:17:00.720 that's not true. Some of the people I've spoken to behind, you know, 203 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.960 off camera, they'll share at least a little bit of what they got 204 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:10.119 paid getting into it. And it is astonishing how how much this art takes 205 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:15.319 and really can't give. And it's hard because to keep these releases at you 206 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:19.920 know, somewhere between twenty five and fifty dollars per release, Otherwise they'd have 207 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:26.680 to charge almost twice that to pay these people even a living wage. Yeah, 208 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:33.559 So I will say there are a couple, maybe like three or four 209 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:41.079 regular film commentary people who probably can make a living from it because they charge 210 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:47.039 high rates and companies will pay them. They will not pay me that. 211 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:52.799 So I was thinking about this recently because people ask me all the time, 212 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:57.160 like why do you still have a day job, And the reality is like, 213 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:06.559 we live in an awful society where health insurance is extremely expensive, and 214 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:10.960 you know, the cost of living has shot up, and so it's like 215 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:17.279 a lot of I actually wrote about this recently in my Patreon and people seem 216 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:22.519 very surprised. But a lot of the people I know who do film commentaries 217 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:26.440 full time either have a spouse who supports them, or they're getting some sort 218 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:32.519 of financial support from family, and it's like, we don't make much money 219 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:37.759 at all. I would say the average price for a commentary is three to 220 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:45.720 five hundred dollars and the work. Certainly, there are companies I work with. 221 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.960 I love working with them, but they don't pay that much and so 222 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:56.279 it's like do I just cut them off entirely and not have the opportunity to 223 00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:00.279 speak about certain films that I love or do. I just sort of accept 224 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:07.079 making less money for certain films. So it's like the inconsistency of how often 225 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:12.119 people give you projects where like unlike a day job, where it's like you 226 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:17.960 have generally a consistent amount of work that you know is coming in, and 227 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:22.759 whether it comes in or not, you're getting a paycheck. And this is 228 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:26.519 just so different. And that's one of the other biggest things is this is 229 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:30.240 a part of an industry that has been told it's dying for fifteen or sixteen 230 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:33.119 years now, so there's always that question mark at the end of next year, 231 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:38.079 who knows. Yeah, But at the same time, you know, 232 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:47.759 I always think about a company like Vinegar Syndrome, who has grown so exponentially 233 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.000 in the last five years. It's like, now they are able to distribute 234 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:57.799 for all these sub labels, and so they're getting all these incredible releases out 235 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:03.200 and facilitating that in a way that likely a lot of these small labels wouldn't 236 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.079 be able to afford to do on their own. And so it's like, 237 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:11.480 obviously it's not dying, right, And I, yeah, I'm a firm 238 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:15.480 believer that it's not. I honestly still think that we are in probably either 239 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:19.240 the golden era or maybe trickling down from over the last couple of years. 240 00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:23.640 I almost feel like the pandemic really led to a real golden period because we 241 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:29.720 got some dream titles that people were able to release and more people were buying 242 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:33.680 them. Print runs even doubled for some of these labels. So it's an 243 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:38.359 astonishing time. Yeah, people were trapped at home with nothing to do but 244 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:45.960 watch movies, and they got those stimulus checks and that, and then they 245 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:51.160 got tired of streaming, so they turned to vinegar syndrome. So one of 246 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:53.759 the ways that we can support people doing this is supporting their other ventures. 247 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:59.319 And one of your other ventures is these books. What can you tell me 248 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:07.400 about this newest book. So years ago I started writing a book with the 249 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:11.599 vague idea that I wanted to talk about World War two and cult cinema. 250 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:18.680 And this covered everything from like sci fi and horror movies made during the war 251 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:26.200 years to movies later on after the war that dealt with that time period and 252 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:30.960 the subject matter, and it just became so insane and so sprawling that I 253 00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:37.359 realized, Okay, this is just like if I am ever actually going to 254 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:40.559 have a book that I can put out in the world, I need to 255 00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:45.279 find a focused topic. So I probably still have a whole second book that 256 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:51.440 could be published after this, but this one focuses on films made from nineteen 257 00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:56.799 forty five to about nineteen eighty five, and they're all films that were made 258 00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:02.640 in countries who actively purchased painted in the war. So for example, I 259 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:07.240 don't really talk about US cinema. I don't talk about a cinema because it 260 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.440 just the scope would be too broad. It's like those are separate books on 261 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:18.319 their own, of course, and I try to move loosely chronologically from Italian 262 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:26.720 neorealism through to things like Come and See and some of the like the rare 263 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:32.839 Soviet protest films that came out in the eighties. That is, I mean, 264 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:37.640 obviously a very broad topic, but it leads to so many other feelings, 265 00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:41.640 at least in myself when I'm looking at something like this, because of 266 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:48.279 whether you look at as inspiring or terrifying or whatever, that there is so 267 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.519 much art that can come out of these tragic times and depressing times and hard 268 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.319 times, and that has happened time and time again, and not even just 269 00:22:56.359 --> 00:23:00.480 in film. But I mean even for you know, the history of mankind, 270 00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:04.960 there are so many movements that have happened. Yeah, people turn pain 271 00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:08.960 and suffering into art, and I think when they don't, then it just 272 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:15.640 turns into more suffering. Right, And a lot of what you seem to 273 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.480 deal with and highlight and even talk about in a lot of your commentaries seems 274 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:25.160 to center around this idea of protest cinema. So can you share what that 275 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.480 would mean to you if you were explaining it to somebody who's never thought of 276 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:34.359 that? So basically what that means to me. And I didn't really go 277 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:37.799 in this direction on purpose. I just sort of realized one day, like, 278 00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:41.680 oh, I seem to be writing about all of these films that have 279 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:48.920 kind of shared political themes or shared goals. And so a lot of the 280 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:53.640 movies in my World War two book fit under this umbrella as well, where 281 00:23:53.680 --> 00:24:02.759 they're basically movies that are made in protest of some sort of political or governmental 282 00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:10.519 oppression. And I think sometimes they kick back against things like war and genocide 283 00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:15.839 and public traumas. But also, you know, a lot of the films 284 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:19.200 that I wrote about in the World War two book, the reason I wanted 285 00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:27.319 to write about the legacy of the war is because war is so often used 286 00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:33.640 as a propaganda tool in media. Oh yeah, so the movies I like, 287 00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:37.519 even if you watch the Hollywood movies that came out in the forties, 288 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:42.480 they're just it's like so hard to find a movie that doesn't just reek of 289 00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:47.960 propaganda. I mean, even Casablanca, which I love, it's a propaganda 290 00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:56.240 film. And so these movies are generally looking at the ways in which politicians 291 00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:02.839 and governments and whole communities use the sort of wartime myth making for their own 292 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:08.480 ends. Like people like Jean Pierre Melville would talk about how like with a 293 00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:14.480 film like Army of Shadows, he's basically saying not every person in France was 294 00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:18.559 in the resistance, even though that's what people want you to believe in the 295 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:22.839 sixties and seventies, and really it was terrible. And so I think I 296 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:33.480 tend to gravitate towards those kinds of films that either overtly or sort of more 297 00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:37.920 subtly have that message that something just isn't right and it needs to be addressed, 298 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:44.839 and that theme I mean continues through like I said, every art form. 299 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:49.759 There are multiple eras of punk music that have come out through certain levels 300 00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:56.319 of uprising and literal oppression, and it's not just war. And that leads 301 00:25:56.359 --> 00:26:02.119 to today that there is still a lot of protests ininema being made, and 302 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:06.960 in recent times the US has been hit with a lot of things that there's 303 00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:11.400 reason a protest. I mean, there's still discrimination across the board, and 304 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:15.839 that is not just based on things like race, but now we are finding 305 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:21.519 this gender gap where women are feeling like they are second class citizens because the 306 00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:26.720 Supreme Court has turned over something that has been in place for more than what 307 00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:30.880 forty years, forty five years and I think close to fifty. Yeah, 308 00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:36.200 people are now losing rights that their grandmother fought for. And it's depressing. 309 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.039 Yeah, I don't even know if depressing is the word for it. It 310 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:48.960 just And that's something that I found really interesting about a lot of these post 311 00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:55.240 war films that were ostensibly about World War Two. It's like, really, 312 00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:59.960 they're about something else. Really, they're about what's going on in your current 313 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:07.359 time and using this much more dramatic historical event as this sort of parallel to 314 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:14.240 that. And it just it's also the sort of time where I tend to 315 00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:21.920 associate that kind of protest cinema with really daring transgressive directors, like in my 316 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.839 book, I write a lot about Pasolini. He pretty much inspired the whole 317 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:32.920 thing with his film Solo, among others, but also like Reiner Erner Fassbender 318 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:41.119 and Lena Vertmueller and just so many people who are exploring the boundaries of mainstream 319 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:48.400 cinema but also sexuality and politics and gender roles and things like that. And 320 00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:55.680 I just don't know that we're going to get the same quality of protest films 321 00:27:55.720 --> 00:28:02.880 today because I think you just don't have the same kind of freedom to be 322 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:10.440 tasteless that you did in the seventies and to be offensive is better and for 323 00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:15.319 worse. Is there an example of a fairly modern protest cinema that you would 324 00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:23.240 point people towards to really dive into the genre. This is a difficult question 325 00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:30.000 to answer. Yeah, I feel like, off the top of my head, 326 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:36.920 one of the only people whose films have consistently excited me and I don't 327 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:41.160 even know if you could call it protest cinema, but definitely transgressive cinema is 328 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:48.960 somebody like Peter Strickland, the English filmmaker, and his films I think, 329 00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:55.680 do something interesting where they're not quite settled into a genre. Like he made 330 00:28:55.680 --> 00:29:00.160 this movie called Abarian Sound Studio that's like kind of a horror film but not 331 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:06.240 totally. And Duke of Burgundy, which is influenced by Jess Franco movies, 332 00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:14.400 but it's not euro cult. It's just like clearly thinking about those sorts of 333 00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:19.000 films in their humming in the background. But right, honestly, I don't 334 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:25.240 know. I find a lot of contemporary cinema to be pretty disappointing, and 335 00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:30.839 usually if I enjoy it, it's in kind of a mindless way, which 336 00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:36.119 I know kisses people off. I get that, and it's all I mean 337 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.839 to be blunt, it's all watered down. I mean, even if there 338 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:45.720 is an original voice that they are seeking to portray, it really gets lost, 339 00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:49.319 especially if it's associated with the studio, because they seemingly have final say 340 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:53.279 and they don't want something like that going to you know, four thousand screens 341 00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:57.759 across the US. Oh totally. And this is something that we talked about 342 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:02.400 pretty recently on tw to the Death Nerve. Is this idea that you know, 343 00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:07.720 people, I think Americans in particular are always sort of fed this line 344 00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:14.039 about you know, China is evil, don't go to It's like it's the 345 00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:18.759 new replacement for the Cold War rhetoric. It's like, here's this obvious villain. 346 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:22.079 You don't want to go there because we have freedom and they don't. 347 00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:30.680 But like, yes, certainly China represses people and doesn't allow certain films or 348 00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:40.079 political protests to happen, but like we don't hear either. We just swipe 349 00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:45.240 things under the rug in much more covert ways. And it all has to 350 00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:48.720 do with money. So it's like, would I rather be living in a 351 00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:51.960 country that says, in a blunt way, you can't do this and you 352 00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:56.559 can't make this film or a country that says you can do whatever you want, 353 00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:03.960 except that you actually can, and the rules seem to change based on 354 00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:10.599 who's involved. And so it's like, if you're white and middle class or 355 00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.599 affluent in some way, you could probably get away with more things. But 356 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:18.160 even then, to your point, it's like the stuff coming out in Hollywood 357 00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:25.079 is so watered down. It's like we're so far away from some of those 358 00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:30.240 new Hollywood films of the seventies and even into the eighties where they felt like 359 00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:33.240 daring, an edgy even in the early nineties. It's like, we're so 360 00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:40.480 far from that. I agree, Is there, you know, as as 361 00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:45.000 a person that's living in society today that is female, that is not an 362 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:48.680 oligarch or anything like that? Is there? How do you know? Is 363 00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:56.960 there a protest cinema revolution that you could point to that you hope is uprising? 364 00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:00.319 Because there's I mean to be super there's not a lot of hope for 365 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:07.599 a lot of people right now. No, there's really not. And it's 366 00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:14.680 funny because I this hasn't been announced yet, so I'm going to try to 367 00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:16.960 find a way to talk about it without like talking about it, which is 368 00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:24.400 a little a little bit challenging. But my next project that should be out 369 00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:31.240 hopefully sometime next year, has to do with representations of political violence and cinema, 370 00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:39.599 and so the research I'm doing right now is all about the Japanese New 371 00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:47.359 Wave and the sort of associated filmmakers, and it's fascinating to me the way 372 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:58.640 that people like Nikisa Oshima and Shoai Imamura and even Koji Wakamatsu, who is 373 00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:02.960 like far to the stream, which I'll explain what I mean by that in 374 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:10.359 a second, they're all basically leftists some more active than others at this very 375 00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:16.160 frustrating time when you know, Japan was doing all sorts of awful things to 376 00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:22.000 its citizens, like people were getting super sick because of all these unregulated chemicals 377 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:28.680 in the water, and we're basically letting the US trample all over them. 378 00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:34.599 And so there's this like wild protest movement that I think felt frustrating for a 379 00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:39.160 lot of people. So the films in the late sixties and early seventies do 380 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:45.079 this interesting thing where they are these amazing protest movies, but a lot of 381 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:52.400 them are also movies that are critical of left wing movements and are sort of 382 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:55.240 they're not afraid to say, here's where you're doing it wrong, and here's 383 00:33:55.279 --> 00:34:01.240 where you're getting caught up in bullshit. And it feels strangely hopeful to me. 384 00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:12.199 I I'm not sure why, but it's like I think too often movements 385 00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:16.639 get like this whole idea of cancel culture that frustrates people. It's like it 386 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:22.679 comes from a good place, which is people shouldn't be allowed to say whatever 387 00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:29.400 racist, sexist bullshit they want on the internet or in person with no consequences, 388 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:32.559 and that idea of entitlement, like well, this is America. It's 389 00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:36.800 a free country. I can say whatever horrible thing to you I want. 390 00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:42.039 It's like, technically you can, but there should be consequences for that, 391 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:51.639 even social consequences. And so I just I think people get so narrowly focused 392 00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:54.480 on either you're doing the thing or you're not doing the thing, and if 393 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:58.920 you're not doing everything we want you to do, then you're against us. 394 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.960 And then it just cuts out so much nuance. And I think nuance is 395 00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:12.079 where hope lives. Nuance is what allows people to lead the kind of diversified, 396 00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:20.400 free lives of their choosing right. And so to see these different filmmakers 397 00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:25.039 kind of exploring nuance and not being afraid to argue with each other and argue 398 00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:29.840 with their own movements, to me, that feels like a really healthy thing. 399 00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:34.400 And it's like if some old Japanese dudes can do it in the late 400 00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:39.599 sixties, surely some people can do it now. I wholeheartedly agree. And 401 00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:44.719 that was such a beautiful way to explain the nuance because I mean, especially 402 00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:49.400 with cancel culture, this is the time for that where everybody is saying, 403 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.480 you know, it's time to boycott X, and if you don't and boycott 404 00:35:52.519 --> 00:35:57.679 it one hundred percent across the board, you're also a bad person. Not 405 00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:01.679 reality, every single thing that we all buy from and support, there's a 406 00:36:01.719 --> 00:36:08.199 piece of shit behind it somewhere. Yeah. Period, It is nearly impossible 407 00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:13.440 to find a company that is, you know, morally true through and through. 408 00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:19.039 And this nuance that can allow somebody to call out something that seemingly aligns 409 00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:22.840 with their beliefs on their own bullshit, that's where the genuine side of things 410 00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:30.960 can really shine. Yeah, And it just I think placing blame is this 411 00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:36.159 thing that makes people feel better. And so it's like, rather than actually 412 00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:40.920 trying to figure out who, who or what is the cause of some sort 413 00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:45.960 of misfortune or suffering or what have you, it's way easier to just like 414 00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:52.000 point your finger and say, you know, I was reading I read some 415 00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:53.920 headline and was like, no, I can't go down this rabbit hole. 416 00:36:53.960 --> 00:37:02.320 But I saw some headline today that this musician who was popular like twenty years 417 00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:13.960 ago was trying to blame trans women for women's rights being taken away. And 418 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:20.320 it was like like, basically she was saying that now that we can't just 419 00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:23.119 say women, we have to say people with uteruses or people who can give 420 00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:29.760 birth that somehow has has stripped away my ability to be a woman. It's 421 00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:35.679 like, it just means that being a woman isn't this like narrow nineteen fifties 422 00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:39.639 box where you can't get a job, you can't have your own bank account, 423 00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:46.519 you can't buy property. It's like pointing the finger at some person that 424 00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:53.199 you don't understand or some sort of group that you're afraid of for whatever reason. 425 00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:57.320 I don't know why. That seems to be such a human impulse, 426 00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:00.639 but it's like, this is not helpful, this is just making things worse. 427 00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:07.840 Also, it's so illogical. Yes most of the time, as always 428 00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:09.960 about to say, it's astonishing to me that it's not bringing about a shared 429 00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:15.880 celebration like others around you are just trying to be treated as good as you 430 00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:20.039 are. That's something that we should celebrate. And I think if you ask 431 00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:24.719 people flat out like, well, maybe this is too optimistic of me, 432 00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:30.639 But I assume if you ask most people flat out like does everyone deserve to 433 00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:37.159 live life the way they want and have the same sort of basic rights, 434 00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:40.480 I have to think that most people would say yes, unless they have some 435 00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:46.599 like real extreme conservative views. But for some reason. It's like there's a 436 00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:53.920 disconnect and people forget that core thing and they try to like twist and turn 437 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:58.800 it into like, well, it's this person's fault that I can't get an 438 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:01.599 abortion. It's like, no, I think we all know whose fault it 439 00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:06.800 is, and it's not all women. I also feel like some of these 440 00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:10.199 people are thinking that because they're getting equal rights, they're viewing it as this 441 00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:15.400 person having more rights than them, which doesn't make any sense. Yes, 442 00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:23.760 yeah, I definitely read some kind of reactionary thought like that in the nineties, 443 00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:30.559 where it was along the lines of like women having equal rights, especially 444 00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:32.519 in terms of equal pay, and it was like, well, if they 445 00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:36.960 start paying women equally, then they're going to pay me less. And it's 446 00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:39.840 like that, how did your brain? How did your brain make that leap. 447 00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:46.360 It's not like it's anyone's saying, well, in order for me to 448 00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:51.679 be paid equally, it's not that you set some sort of company policy. 449 00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:54.280 It's that I want you to take money out of Joe's paycheck and give it 450 00:39:54.320 --> 00:40:00.239 to me, exactly. And that's that's where this entitlement that we're seeing today 451 00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:04.400 and the employment culture is so astonishing to me as well, because you know, 452 00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:07.760 just because they're offering starting positions at McDonald's for sixteen dollars an hour and 453 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:12.480 you're only making nineteen, that doesn't mean that you're supposed to be mad at 454 00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.199 the guy at McDonald's, be mad at your employer. They should be paying 455 00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:19.440 you more. But this is capitalism. This is how it works and how 456 00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:25.360 it functions is instead of people clearly looking at the source of their suffering, 457 00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:34.840 they view other working class people as competition exactly. It's like, no, 458 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:40.360 I don't understand why so many people are willing to punch below them when in 459 00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:45.559 all reality, if you're looking for help, those people aren't gonna be able 460 00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:47.199 to do anything for you because they're treated worse than you. You should be 461 00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:53.880 punching up. Yeah, but punching below you is safe and easy, and 462 00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:59.480 do this dopamine. Why do you think people become cops right? Punching below 463 00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:06.800 you is absolutely on that note. This is a great time to go back 464 00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:09.679 to protest cinema. And I'm curious, what are a handful that you would 465 00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:15.519 recommend for people now, not just contemporary, just something that can strike emotion 466 00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:22.679 and have somebody really grab onto a movement. I would say, definitely, 467 00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:30.400 Battle of Algiers is a good one, the Patakorvo film. There are so 468 00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:39.119 many Pasolini films that fit under this. Definitely something so Something that I think 469 00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:45.400 is one of his more underrated films. Like if you're a Pasolini film you 470 00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:50.119 probably already will have seen this. But Teorema, which is usually translated as 471 00:41:50.280 --> 00:42:00.760 theorem, is this like wild anti capitalist protest allegory about this really hot guy 472 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:13.480 who infiltrates this like bourgeois factory owner businessman's family and proceeds to seduce everyone in 473 00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:20.360 the household, from the husband to the wife, to his two adult children 474 00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:25.159 to the maid, and he makes them sort of radically rethink their lives, 475 00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:31.199 which has different outcomes for each of the characters. But it's like it's that 476 00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:37.880 sort of thing that it's just like, yes, there are plenty of protest 477 00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:45.400 cinema movies where it's literally about a protest, Like there are some goodar films 478 00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:50.280 that you could watch like that, and those I think are great too, 479 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:57.719 But the films that really excite me are the ones that do it in more 480 00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:01.960 subtle ways where you sort of get yet like holed into the film before you 481 00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:08.079 really realize what's happening. Like, I don't think political messaging is as effective 482 00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:12.360 when you're just beaten over the head with it. It's like you want someone 483 00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:19.800 to tell you a good story. Definitely, a lot of Fastbenders films are 484 00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:25.559 like this. Certainly, I would say I don't even know where to start 485 00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:32.119 with Fastbender. He made like forty five films, they're all masterpieces. I 486 00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:37.719 would say Fox and his Friends is a great one to start with because it 487 00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:45.199 also has all these themes about class and how money makes people terrible, and 488 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:50.800 even if you love someone and have a relationship with them, that doesn't mean 489 00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:54.960 that class isn't still gonna win out in the end, or class ideology. 490 00:43:55.960 --> 00:44:00.000 Definitely, all kinds of history. Yeah, all kinds of his stuff just 491 00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:02.480 came out through Arrow, and that is seemingly the best way to get most 492 00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:07.159 of those right now. Yeah, Criterion put out a bunch, but I 493 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:14.880 think those two Arrow sets are so far the biggest collections. Ye, So 494 00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:20.679 are there any that not that those are, you know, not great? 495 00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:24.480 Are there any that are more geared towards women and what we seem to be 496 00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:29.719 fighting as a culture in society in America right now? With the news OFO 497 00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:31.480 V. Wade just a couple of weeks ago. Because obviously a lot of 498 00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:35.719 people will go to the easy answer of black Christmas. It was so progressive 499 00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:38.920 of talking about abortion before others would. Is there anything that you would point 500 00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:45.760 to? I mean, Rough Cut Cinema just made a great dirty dancing shirt, 501 00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:51.239 which people are gonna think I'm crazy. I wish I could pick up 502 00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:54.760 my camera. It won't it probably won't pick up. I have a tie 503 00:44:54.840 --> 00:45:00.800 movie poster for dirty Dancing in this like Dark Corner in the Far other Remove 504 00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:07.039 My House. But it's a movie that I think you would never think of 505 00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:10.639 as a protest movie. It has obvious class themes, but it's another one 506 00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:17.320 that brings up this issue of abortion. And there are some great more obvious 507 00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:28.559 ones like Born in Flames. Weirdly, also, these might not all specifically 508 00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:36.280 be abortion themed. But most people know Paul Verhoven from his Hollywood movies like 509 00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:43.079 Showgirls, for example, which I think is extremely feminist. But a lot 510 00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:52.000 of Verhoven's early Dutch films are really interesting and like super relevant for right now. 511 00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:58.679 A lot of them are films about headstrong women who just don't fit in 512 00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:01.599 with society, or they're about sex workers who want to live by their own 513 00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:07.920 terms, and they're incredibly well written, well acted, super sensitive. Like 514 00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:16.199 it's clear that he was making feminist cinema from an early age, and that 515 00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:21.239 I think whenever I tell people to check out those early movies, they're always 516 00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:25.639 like, we're hoven, like Starship Troopers and like, yes, that one, 517 00:46:27.639 --> 00:46:31.360 which is also a protest movie, a very good one and seems to 518 00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:35.559 be wreaking a propaganda But when you really look into it, the subtlety is 519 00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:39.159 there, and it's so much of that subtlety is so important for things that 520 00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:44.280 bring out empathy when people if they win in the movie, knowing that they 521 00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:47.119 wouldn't give that empathy, but when you're invested in it and it's oh shit, 522 00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:51.719 I'm sixty four minutes into this and suddenly I really care what happens to 523 00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:55.880 this character. Yeah, that's where we find that humanity. Yeah, And 524 00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:02.360 I do think there are a lot of filmmakers who through the use of like 525 00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:08.000 more transgressive themes, like andre Juwabski is another great one, the Polish director 526 00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:14.000 who wound up working in France for most of his career. Most people know 527 00:47:14.199 --> 00:47:19.639 Possession, which he made, but he made many other incredible films that just 528 00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:24.920 look at how awful society is and how difficult of a time women have just 529 00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:31.599 trying to live, which still true, unfortunately. Well, happy to be 530 00:47:31.639 --> 00:47:38.679 here. Well, speaking of happiness, let's branch out to one more really 531 00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:44.320 quick happy topic, and that is I put out the beacon to people on 532 00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:45.800 my Patreon that I was going to have you on and they could ask some 533 00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:50.920 questions, and I got some interesting ones for you, and I knew at 534 00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:54.440 least one or two of my patrons are also patrons of yours, so some 535 00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:59.639 that we got. One says I've only ever heard you talk about movies that 536 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:02.840 are at at least thirty years old. Are there filmmakers who started working like 537 00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:07.480 in the mid nineties or later that you are really associated with or a fan 538 00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:13.320 of somebody that you find true value in. Definitely Peter Strickland, who I 539 00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:22.320 mentioned. I'm trying to think I like a lot of Ben Wheatley's films that 540 00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:28.639 they've worked together before. I think Ben Wheatley has actually produced some of Peter 541 00:48:28.679 --> 00:48:34.320 Strickland's films. Trying to think of other recent filmmakers. I am a little 542 00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:37.159 sleep deprived, and this is these sorts of questions I almost never get, 543 00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:43.239 so I don't have I don't have like an obvious answer. I mean, 544 00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:46.440 I saw Crimes of the Future and I'm kind of obsessed with it. So 545 00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:51.519 I feel like, even though David Cronenberg was not born thirty years ago, 546 00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:57.039 he just made a movie and I was shocked that I loved it. This 547 00:48:57.079 --> 00:49:01.360 is a thing that really frustrates me, Like I wish there were younger filmmakers 548 00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:08.679 whose work I was excited about. And some of it is it's difficult for 549 00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:15.679 me to find the time to see new movies that are harder to seek out, 550 00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:19.559 like where I might have to actually make it to an in person screening 551 00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:24.920 just with my work schedule, Like so much of what I watch revolves around 552 00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:31.079 either what I'm being hired to talk about or something for book research. And 553 00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:37.719 so it's like when I have a day off watching a new movie that very 554 00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:42.960 well might make me angry, it's usually not a gamble I want to take. 555 00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:49.079 I feel like there have to be more people though, like Brandon Cronenberg, 556 00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:53.199 I like his movies nice. As soon as we get off this call, 557 00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:55.639 I'm going to think of things and be like, god, damn it. 558 00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:00.400 Well, one thing I would say about that subject, which we don't 559 00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:04.599 really hear a lot of people talking about, is that now, with the 560 00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:08.159 proliferation of cell phone cameras that can shoot in four K, we have this 561 00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:14.960 odd like switch of power where everybody can shoot a movie in four K theoretically 562 00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:20.119 with you know, just sitting at home. However, because of the bias 563 00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:25.199 in the system, everything is still leaning towards the studio films for mostly established 564 00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:29.960 directors or people that are in the system for some other reasons. So now 565 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:35.159 it is easier to shoot a film theoretically, but I almost feel like nowadays 566 00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:39.760 it's much more difficult to break through. Yeah, and I think some of 567 00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:46.559 it is like people who are probably making interesting films that I would like are 568 00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:52.400 being distributed through small companies and I'm just not seeing the titles or like maybe 569 00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:57.639 I'll hear about them later. Like there's this movie that came out a couple 570 00:50:57.679 --> 00:51:05.079 of years ago that I wound up introducing at the Brooklyn Horror Film Festival called 571 00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:10.800 Blue My Mind. It's a Swiss film that it's a coming of age horror 572 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:15.039 movie about a girl who turns into a mermaid, but in a really grotesque 573 00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:20.119 body horror way. And I liked that, but until they said, hey, 574 00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:22.559 will you introduce this? I was like, I don't even know what 575 00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:27.079 the fuck that is? Right, Yeah, So it's like they're out there. 576 00:51:27.159 --> 00:51:30.159 There's also another movie from around that time called The Falling that I really 577 00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:36.840 liked, which it has some picnic it hanging rock vibes. So it's like 578 00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:40.840 people are trying to make these more interesting movies. Knife plus Heart I loved 579 00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:46.239 so good. Hey, I told you they would come out eventually. They 580 00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:51.639 don't get the big distribution exactly. And I will use that as a sort 581 00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:54.880 of bat signal moment to say, when you get an opportunity, please take 582 00:51:54.920 --> 00:51:59.239 the moment to not only support these labels. I mean, shout Factory gets 583 00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:01.039 a lot of money. I don't need that, but if you have the 584 00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:06.880 opportunity things like INDIEGGO, young filmmakers that are doing something and trying to fundraise 585 00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:09.639 to support even a short film, it goes a long wait because a lot 586 00:52:09.679 --> 00:52:14.559 of these people that you love nowadays, they started as filmmakers that were doing 587 00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:17.880 short films and could barely cobble together a couple thousand dollars from friends and family, 588 00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:22.559 and you might be supporting the next Fastbender or the next Ben Wheatley or 589 00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:27.840 somebody like that. Yeah, please, people, I need to see the 590 00:52:27.880 --> 00:52:31.599 next Deathbed, which is a movie that I genuinely love, but like, 591 00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:35.719 nobody's gonna make it if they can't, if they can't get the funding to 592 00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:38.440 buy a four K phone. Well, I would be remiss right now to 593 00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:44.960 not shout out another young filmmaker named Michael Keaneho's another YouTuber who has a film 594 00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:47.159 that he's trying to fundraise for right now, and his tagline is literally feed 595 00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:51.760 the bed and he's going to have a giant bed shaped vagina, I think 596 00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:55.159 is how it's gonna be, and it sounds incredible, So please please go 597 00:52:55.199 --> 00:53:00.599 seek him out. Next question is you post some one ully in depth articles 598 00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:05.280 on your Patreon. Is there ever a plan to maybe collect all of them 599 00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:09.760 and release it as a book. H So, this is an interesting question 600 00:53:10.719 --> 00:53:19.119 that I have thought about. It's so I would actually probably have to talk 601 00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:27.159 to someone with law experience, like an entertainment lawyer or a publishing lawyer. 602 00:53:27.400 --> 00:53:34.480 But sometimes I post things on my Patreon that are for a book that's going 603 00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:37.519 to come out, Like a couple days ago, I posted an essay on 604 00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:44.480 men Behind the Sun, which is for a book that I'm working on about 605 00:53:44.679 --> 00:53:52.199 extreme Hong Kong cinema, and it's honestly become a really good barometer for me 606 00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:57.599 to sort of like balloon test, like what do people think about And it's 607 00:53:57.639 --> 00:53:59.920 not even a full chapter, it's just like a section of a chapter. 608 00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:01.960 It's like what do people think about this? And people seem to love it, 609 00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:08.360 which, like I ultimately write because I enjoy writing, so it's like 610 00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:13.079 I'm writing the fucking book anyway. But it's like if I hear that people 611 00:54:13.119 --> 00:54:16.519 are happy about it, it's like, Okay, I sort of have an 612 00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:22.840 idea of here's what I did in this chapter. I can do similar things 613 00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:28.440 in other later chapters. But there are all these older essays that I've written 614 00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:34.800 that just like a lot of them I wrote for Diabolique, which you don't 615 00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:39.199 make any money through them. So like, theoretically, I guess I could 616 00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:44.320 collect things and publish them as a book. It I didn't know that people 617 00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:46.639 would really have interest in that, but I guess if someone's asking you, 618 00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:52.679 maybe they do. Absolutely. I mean I pre order that absolutely just to 619 00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:54.559 be able to have it all together. It would be wonderful. I would 620 00:54:54.599 --> 00:55:01.280 have to figure out how to pack, like what theme. That's a good 621 00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:07.360 point, Yeah, and that's that's the hard thing is And that leads into 622 00:55:07.360 --> 00:55:10.280 the next question, beautifully, is you you have this knowledge for everything, 623 00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:15.159 but it seems like throughout a lot of these releases, you're you're simply tied 624 00:55:15.199 --> 00:55:19.480 to like euro cult stuff, And I'm curious how you know You're you're diving 625 00:55:19.480 --> 00:55:22.800 deep into euro cult after eurocult after euro cult, and then suddenly they announced 626 00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:27.719 Nine Lives of a Wet Pussy and Sam Degan is doing a commentary on there. 627 00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:30.679 How how do those you know, beyond genres compared to what your normal 628 00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:36.119 titles? How do those come about for you? I mean, I really 629 00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:39.920 hate being pigeonholed in euro cult and I love a lot of euro cult movies. 630 00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:44.960 But there are two reasons I hate it. The first is I just 631 00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:49.840 don't like being pigeonholed. It's only ever researching and talking about one thing is 632 00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:57.840 boring, and boredom is like the ultimate evil for me. Absolutely. The 633 00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:06.719 other reason is like not to you know, say anything too off color. 634 00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:14.000 But I think among these sort of cult movie label releases, the euro cult 635 00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:20.000 titles are in really high demand. And so a lot of film critics are 636 00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:23.880 really territorial about it, and so there's just like a lot of drama and 637 00:56:23.960 --> 00:56:28.119 cattiness, and like, at the end of the day, I just want 638 00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:30.039 to do research and write and talk about movies. I don't want to deal 639 00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:36.719 with people's bullshit. So it's like I would rather not do euro cult movies 640 00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:40.119 and not be involved in it. So it's but it's sort of It's also 641 00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:45.239 like once I make it clear to people, and not always, but definitely 642 00:56:45.320 --> 00:56:50.559 sometimes, when I make it clear to people that I, you know, 643 00:56:51.079 --> 00:56:57.559 can do commentaries about hardcore films or about Hong Kong cinema, it's like those 644 00:56:57.599 --> 00:57:00.239 opportunities have started to show up, which is great. I mean, Vinegar 645 00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:05.880 Syndrome, they're my favorite company to work with. They've always treated me really 646 00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:10.960 well. They usually if I say, you know, I want to do 647 00:57:12.079 --> 00:57:15.239 something, or if they ask me, hey, we need a commentary for 648 00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:19.960 this, it's like they're you know, I think they're open to me doing 649 00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:23.559 different things than euro cult. And part of the reason why I've really enjoyed 650 00:57:23.599 --> 00:57:28.920 working with eighty eight Films is because they were the first people to offer me 651 00:57:29.559 --> 00:57:34.639 a Hong Kong commentary on the Shaw Brothers Come Drink with Me, which is 652 00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:39.920 like the first sixties Wouja film. And I wrote them back, this is 653 00:57:39.960 --> 00:57:43.920 a couple of years ago, and I wrote them back. I was like 654 00:57:44.039 --> 00:57:46.960 this, like I grew up watching these movies. I love them, but 655 00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:52.719 like this is not my established area of expertise, Like are you sure, 656 00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:54.760 And they were like, yeah, go for it. And now now I'm 657 00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:59.840 writing a book on Hong Kong movies. So sometimes I think having people show 658 00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:06.320 in you it it like helps you have more confidence in yourself. That's very 659 00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:13.360 true, which is a really like reading Rainbow answer, But I mean to 660 00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.400 a point, it kind of ties into a lot of the stuff that we 661 00:58:15.400 --> 00:58:21.079 were talking about too, with the oppression and if you are so hopeless in 662 00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:24.320 so many of these situations and you get that opportunity, it can literally change 663 00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:30.119 your life, just one simple opportunity. Yeah, And I think a lot 664 00:58:30.159 --> 00:58:40.199 of it is about connection and community and people supporting your work or offering you 665 00:58:40.280 --> 00:58:46.360 opportunities or listening to your podcast or you're watching your YouTube show. It's like 666 00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:52.119 it. I think a lot of the time it costs people nothing to support 667 00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:57.199 each other, to show enthusiasm for what makes someone else excited, But it 668 00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:06.400 means so much more than this sort of awful capitalists like individualistic, like I 669 00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:10.039 just have to get ahead of everyone. It's like, do you well there's 670 00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:15.679 nothing up there? Yeah, that's that's the biggest thing. And a lot 671 00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:19.159 of times nowadays, the biggest thing that you can do is just share so 672 00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:22.960 that more people can get eyes on it. And it literally takes ten seconds 673 00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:25.840 and not a dime from you. So if you can share some of Sam's 674 00:59:25.840 --> 00:59:29.800 work, if you can share you know, excitement about a release, if 675 00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:32.679 you can do something to you know, somebody is interested in World War two, 676 00:59:32.719 --> 00:59:36.519 bring up the book that she wrote. It's not that hard just to 677 00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:43.719 share good art. Thank you. Yeah. I think in starting my Patreon, 678 00:59:44.239 --> 00:59:49.880 I have definitely seen that side of people come out so much more. 679 00:59:49.960 --> 00:59:55.400 We started a discord where people are super enthusiastic. And even so, I 680 00:59:55.440 --> 01:00:02.639 primarily a couple of years ago, used Facebook as my most frequent form of 681 01:00:02.679 --> 01:00:08.480 social media and it just was so toxic right that I left and went on 682 01:00:08.559 --> 01:00:13.159 Instagram. And so far, all I've seen is just like people sharing each 683 01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:17.719 other's stuff. And maybe it's just because I'm following movie nerds and not not 684 01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:24.360 any like diet or gym culture people. But uh, well, I will 685 01:00:24.440 --> 01:00:30.320 leave with one last really cliche easy question here is, I'm sure there's a 686 01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:34.360 handful of amazing Grail titles that you would love to do a commentary or a 687 01:00:34.360 --> 01:00:37.800 liner essay for other than the one that you said that hasn't been announced yet. 688 01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:39.519 Is there anything out there that you would just love to put in the 689 01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:45.280 ether that hopefully someday you can do some work up any single Fastbender film. 690 01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:50.599 I've watched them all, I've written about all of them for my old blog. 691 01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:53.559 I wrote a big, huge chapter on his work for my World War 692 01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:58.480 two book. But I've never gotten to do anything with an official Fastbender release, 693 01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:04.519 And so that's my like, like, yes, there are probably two 694 01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:08.679 dozen things that I could list off, but that's like the one reeal And 695 01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:12.639 so many of his films don't not even just don't have a release, but 696 01:01:12.679 --> 01:01:15.840 they don't have a good release, they don't have anything on recent formats. 697 01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:20.400 There's so much out there that still could be done. Yeah. He he 698 01:01:20.559 --> 01:01:30.599 made this totally crazy Western movie called Whitey that I am obsessed with. And 699 01:01:30.679 --> 01:01:34.199 so it's like, if I had to pick one, knowing that it hasn't. 700 01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:37.920 I don't think it's had a proper release yet. Like, come on, 701 01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:43.440 world, people want a fastbender Whitey, a fastbender Western called Whitey on 702 01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:46.559 Blu Ray. I would agree with that, and it sounds like something that 703 01:01:46.599 --> 01:01:52.639 a lot of people would buy into almost immediately. Uh So that's that's pretty 704 01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:54.159 much it. Sam, Thank you so much for your time. I know 705 01:01:54.239 --> 01:01:58.440 that you are extremely busy in doing something like this, take a lot of 706 01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:02.239 time and prep and uh negotiating, sleep and sweat and everything for so I 707 01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:07.639 appreciate you. Everybody. All of sam links for the Sam's links for Patreon 708 01:02:07.719 --> 01:02:12.800 for the book, for anything else that I can find is below. Is 709 01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:15.800 there is Instagram You're preferred, everybody should follow you theirs or somewhere else that 710 01:02:15.800 --> 01:02:21.880 you would recommend. That's the easiest, got it well as usual. Thank 711 01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:24.639 you everybody for watching and tune in next time. Thanks for everything. Have 712 01:02:24.679 --> 01:02:30.039 a good night. You me