1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:06,599 You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio 2 00:00:06,759 --> 00:00:13,240 in the UK and around the world. Hello world, you're listening to Eleanor 3 00:00:13,279 --> 00:00:19,160 Wagner's Strange and Scary world here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network, where we're 4 00:00:19,199 --> 00:00:25,679 always creeping it real. I'm your host, Eleanor Wagner. Welcome all to 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,600 my paranormal Closet, where the stories in magic take place. Every area has 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,679 their own version of Bigfoot, and key Largo in Florida is no exception. 7 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:41,159 After an incident in nineteen seventy seven, Florida's Bigfoot was dubbed the skunk Ape, 8 00:00:41,719 --> 00:00:46,719 also known as swamp cabbage Man, swamp squatch, and the Florida Bigfoot. 9 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:52,759 The skunk Ape is a crypted ape like creature alleged by cryptozoologists to inhabit 10 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:58,600 forests and swamps in the southeastern United States. My guest penned book based on 11 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,799 the original incident. Please join me and welcoming historian, speaker and author Bradbert 12 00:01:03,799 --> 00:01:07,159 Telly. Hey, thank you so much for having me on. I'm so 13 00:01:07,239 --> 00:01:10,959 glad you'd be joining me today. You have quite the resume you have. 14 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:17,200 History columnists at the Key's Weekly expert on Indian Key and the legendary pirate Black 15 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:22,560 Caesar, and former curator at Islamada's Keys History and Discovery Center, all on 16 00:01:22,599 --> 00:01:26,640 your List, which includes writing about the Florida Key since two thousand and one. 17 00:01:26,599 --> 00:01:30,959 As I understand it, there are earlier reports of sightings going as far 18 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:36,359 back as the eighteen hundreds. In nineteen forty two, a man said that 19 00:01:36,439 --> 00:01:38,359 one of the creatures hitched a ride on a running board of his car for 20 00:01:38,439 --> 00:01:42,519 daily half a mile before jumping off and racing into the woods. And then 21 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:48,359 in nineteen fifty seven, three hunters said that one of the creatures invaded their 22 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,840 camp in the Big Cyprus National Preserve east of Naples in the southwestern corner of 23 00:01:52,879 --> 00:01:57,239 the state. So why is the nineteen seventy seven events so significant to sparking 24 00:01:57,319 --> 00:02:01,280 interest in the skunk Ape tale? Like why did you decide to write about 25 00:02:01,319 --> 00:02:05,879 it? And why write fictional stories on the skunk Ape biles when there are 26 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,159 so many people with true account encounters out there. Well, I am a 27 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:15,360 writer by trade, kind of walked backwards into the historian side of it. 28 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,879 After I wrote my first book, which was a historicaling guide to Florida back 29 00:02:19,879 --> 00:02:23,759 in two thousand and eight, the Skunk Gape. I've been doing a column 30 00:02:23,759 --> 00:02:28,800 in the local paper for over for about a decade now, and my former 31 00:02:29,199 --> 00:02:35,400 editor told me about this event from nineteen seventy seven, and so I went 32 00:02:35,439 --> 00:02:38,680 back and found it and wrote my own column about it years and years ago, 33 00:02:39,199 --> 00:02:42,479 and it just turned out to be one of my favorite stories. I've 34 00:02:42,479 --> 00:02:46,560 always been into the lockbest monster and UFOs and witches and ghosts and cryptids, 35 00:02:46,599 --> 00:02:51,280 so I've always been really intrigued by that, and so it was just a 36 00:02:51,319 --> 00:02:57,199 really fun, a fun story to write about. Okay, that that makes 37 00:02:57,199 --> 00:03:00,479 sense because I'm the same way. I love all sorts and stuff like that. 38 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,479 I grew up with in search of when I was a kid, and 39 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,439 they had a national choir all the time in New York, so I know 40 00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:10,000 what you're talking about. I live in Sussex County in New Jersey, and 41 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:15,719 we have a version of Bigfoot here called the Red Eye, and I've written 42 00:03:15,759 --> 00:03:20,080 about it in my books, but I've gotten true accounts from people that live 43 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,120 in the area, and I've gotten some that go back as far as the 44 00:03:23,479 --> 00:03:29,840 sixties even, which is kind of unique in that now even recently as close 45 00:03:29,879 --> 00:03:35,560 as twenty twenty therapy and sightings, which is so strange to me, but 46 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,479 I read that in January of seventy four, Richard Lee Smith said that he 47 00:03:38,879 --> 00:03:43,479 hit what he thought was a man, but it turned out to be a 48 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,319 seven or eight foot hairy creature that stood up and roared and charged his car. 49 00:03:47,159 --> 00:03:51,439 That's what made him change his mind about being an actual man. And 50 00:03:51,479 --> 00:03:54,319 then in your area as recent as two thousand, a woman sent in a 51 00:03:54,319 --> 00:04:00,479 photo that she suspected to be and she called it an escaped orangutary and specialists 52 00:04:00,479 --> 00:04:05,479 decided it was not an orangutang but possibly a skunk ape. Can you describe 53 00:04:05,599 --> 00:04:10,280 a skunk ape? Well, first, going back to that image, which 54 00:04:10,319 --> 00:04:15,080 I firmly believe is an orangutan orangutan. Okay, because the picture, I 55 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,959 mean, it looks and there were there was, there are in that area, 56 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:24,480 which is closer as the west coast of Florida primate enclosures, So it 57 00:04:24,519 --> 00:04:30,240 could very well be an escaped orangutan. And it does look very much, 58 00:04:30,319 --> 00:04:34,759 if not identical, to a picture of an orangutan. What Okay, Yeah, 59 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,600 so I you know, and um, but going back to your initial 60 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:46,160 question about why was the nineteen seventy seventy events so interesting. There was a 61 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:51,199 spate of sidings Broward County and date like Fort Lauderdale and the Palm Beaches and 62 00:04:51,399 --> 00:04:57,319 down to the Everglades in the in the mid mid seventies that really sparked. 63 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,040 There was a youth. Papers are filled with account from that area. And 64 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:08,120 as far as I know, this was the only account of a skunk cape 65 00:05:08,759 --> 00:05:13,959 in the Florida Keys. Yea, as far as I know. But you 66 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,560 know, my philosophy is it because you know, in history, there are 67 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:21,120 black bears down here, there are panthers down here, and if there's a 68 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:27,480 skunk cape or encrypted once, it's not going to be an arbitrary thing. 69 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,120 You know. If it happened once, it happened, it's happened before as 70 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:36,519 far as I'm concerned. Now, what is really unusual about the nineteen seventy 71 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:43,720 seventy event in Key Largo is that most people who describe skunk capes describe them 72 00:05:43,759 --> 00:05:50,639 as somewhat smaller than a traditional bigfoot. Bigfoot normally you know, eight nine 73 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,439 ten feet tall, hundreds of pounds, and the skunk cape is usually reported 74 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:01,000 as being smaller in stature. And what was interesting about the Key Lardner event 75 00:06:01,199 --> 00:06:06,639 was it was described between eight and nine feet tall. I mean it was 76 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,920 at one point it's behind the hedge and at the hedge of eight feet tall 77 00:06:11,959 --> 00:06:14,600 and it's you know, it's it's shoulders and head are still poking up. 78 00:06:15,439 --> 00:06:18,800 Ah okay, I don't you know some and a lot of a lot of 79 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:24,639 experts. David Sheey, for instance, who is the undisputed king of you 80 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:30,120 know, he's the king of skunk cape research in the Everglades. His family's 81 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,920 been in the Everglades for over one hundred years. He hasn't really a great 82 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,480 video of one out in the Everlades taken I think in the year two thousand 83 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:43,000 and He has spent you know, fifty years researching this creature and hunting for 84 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:48,199 it and looking for it. And he has tracks and typically he refers to 85 00:06:48,199 --> 00:06:55,199 the skunk capes as being three toed oh okay. And I don't know how 86 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,839 many toes this creature had in nineteen seventy seven. I know there were some 87 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:03,519 tracks take him that were fourteen or tracks that were copied plaster, you know, 88 00:07:03,639 --> 00:07:08,600 with plaster, and they were four fourteen to fifteen inches long, and 89 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:14,800 but there was that that history or that story is some somewhat diluted. There's 90 00:07:14,839 --> 00:07:18,639 not a lot of information about it besides the original newspaper story that came out 91 00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:25,240 in the in the seventies. And so that's kind of what made you want 92 00:07:25,279 --> 00:07:29,800 to focus on that particular incident to write your your book. Well, I 93 00:07:29,839 --> 00:07:33,319 had at the time I wrote the book, I was curating at the museum, 94 00:07:34,399 --> 00:07:39,839 and I thought it would be a great exhibit to do a crypted skunk 95 00:07:39,839 --> 00:07:43,160 cape exhibit at the museum, especially you don't bring the kids in, and 96 00:07:44,199 --> 00:07:48,160 my board of directors didn't think that at all. And so I decided, 97 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,600 well, all right, screw that. I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna 98 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:57,000 go on with with my stories and create this, create this, this story. 99 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,600 And I hadn't written any fiction. My book is historical fiction. It's 100 00:08:00,639 --> 00:08:05,720 based on that event. But I did make up forty nine of these of 101 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:11,199 the stories, but used bits and pieces of Florida Keys history too, kind 102 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:16,639 of um, you know, create this these stories. For instance, I 103 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:22,720 think there was you know, in the eighteen seventy four there was this really 104 00:08:22,079 --> 00:08:28,680 interesting newspaper account in the Chicago Valley Argus. It was dated August twenty ninth, 105 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:33,279 eighteen seventy four, and it's the first reported sighting of a ghost in 106 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:39,360 Key West. Oh really, but that ghost is described as hairy and as 107 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,879 large as a horse. H Okay, that to me sounds more like a 108 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:48,840 skunk gape or encrypted than than anything else. Sure, And so that's that 109 00:08:50,039 --> 00:08:52,799 is one of the files. I talked about that story in my book. 110 00:08:52,600 --> 00:09:00,200 And there's also this really great sculpture, sponge sculpture down in Key West, 111 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:05,960 and it is a it is a sculpture made of sponges and it stands about 112 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:11,000 eight feet tall and it's bulky and looks a lot like a skunk cape looks. 113 00:09:13,159 --> 00:09:15,639 So I took a lot of these events and kind of created my own 114 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:20,159 stories. And what's interesting is even though the book says historical fiction, and 115 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,720 I feel bad on one level because I have contributed to the passing along of 116 00:09:24,799 --> 00:09:31,399 bogus stories encrypted, because I've been you know, I've read through through magazine 117 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:37,960 articles and you know, coming across an events. One one was talking about 118 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:41,759 one of the earliest known events in eighteen twenty Key West and earliest own sidings 119 00:09:41,159 --> 00:09:45,320 in Florida. And I'm reading through it going, this sounds really familiar, 120 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,639 and someone had just plagiarized my story and like cutting pace in my but on 121 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:54,919 my accounts their story. And I'm like, and that sort of thing happens, 122 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:01,519 Yeah, that's unavoidable for sure. And then another time that had happened. 123 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,080 There was a group, a big Foot group doing a documentary on the 124 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:11,639 Skunk Cape and one of the people in the documentary had read my book and 125 00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:16,879 had left a great review on Amazon and knew that it was fiction and had 126 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:22,120 passed my stories onto the guy who was making the documentary and he took them 127 00:10:22,159 --> 00:10:28,240 as verbatim real and he did it. Yeah, and I got I got 128 00:10:28,279 --> 00:10:30,399 a message note, do you mind it for you some of your stories? 129 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:35,360 And I said absolutely not great, assuming that he understood what they were and 130 00:10:35,759 --> 00:10:39,360 didn't use the actual the actually event he did he didn't use, but he 131 00:10:39,399 --> 00:10:43,399 did take I think seven of the five or seven of the stories and read 132 00:10:43,399 --> 00:10:48,039 them verbatim and or had someone narrate them. And it was great. And 133 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,240 he after it came out, I you know, contacted, He contacted me, 134 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,639 asked I'd seen it. I said, you knew that my these are 135 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,039 fiction, right, and he said no, I didn't but he took it 136 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:01,480 really but he took it really well. Bid of Needs come on the next 137 00:11:01,759 --> 00:11:05,200 part two of their documentary, which never came out, but it took it 138 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:11,120 really well. That's bound to happen. I do think it's unavoidable because even 139 00:11:11,519 --> 00:11:18,440 as a paranormal investigator, we go on paranormal investigations and we are really big 140 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:24,200 on being honest about our findings and we take it very seriously. But I 141 00:11:24,279 --> 00:11:26,639 know that the paranormal shows on TV are all about entertainment. And I know 142 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:31,919 that firsthand because a director that I had worked with had said to me, 143 00:11:31,759 --> 00:11:37,200 it's about entertainment, and if we don't have anything happen, we're going to 144 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,519 have to make it happen. And so ultimately, most of these people that 145 00:11:39,639 --> 00:11:46,120 put out these shows, I think probably documentaries aside, but people who put 146 00:11:46,159 --> 00:11:48,559 these programs out are looking to entertain the public and any way they can do 147 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,799 it, they're going to do that. So the fact that he didn't know 148 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:56,039 I feel badly about but I don't think you should feel badly about it either, 149 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,399 because you're being honest about it and saying that the original story was a 150 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:05,679 legitimate story that happened. But I wanted to create this background for people of 151 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,000 what other people have encountered. But the stories that I'm telling them are fictional. 152 00:12:09,799 --> 00:12:13,559 And one of the reasons I did this book and did it in the 153 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:18,679 ways it's really three stories in one book. There are the subcave events, 154 00:12:18,279 --> 00:12:22,879 there is the historical context kind of behind the event, and then there's a 155 00:12:22,919 --> 00:12:28,559 third story where I have my two characters who come in and which is just 156 00:12:28,639 --> 00:12:31,399 total fiction. And that's you know, set in nineteen seventy seven in q 157 00:12:31,519 --> 00:12:33,840 West, and you know, they find these boxes of documents and they go 158 00:12:33,919 --> 00:12:39,639 on this expedition to prove to prove the events that they found. But one 159 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:46,639 as a historian, the history in the book is accurate. And one of 160 00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:50,879 the reasons I did this book was to tell Florida Key's history to a group 161 00:12:52,759 --> 00:12:58,799 or two people that might not might not otherwise engage in these topics and kind 162 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,720 of expose that because there's the history down on the Florida Keys. It's a 163 00:13:01,799 --> 00:13:05,360 mate is amazing, it's really interesting. It's a great place to come drink 164 00:13:05,399 --> 00:13:11,159 and go fishing and have a good time, but the history is tremendous and 165 00:13:11,399 --> 00:13:13,720 this was a way for me to share the history with the people. I 166 00:13:13,759 --> 00:13:18,279 do exactly the same thing, Brad. With my books. I do the 167 00:13:18,399 --> 00:13:22,960 history of the town and the location, and if I have more history on 168 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,440 the actual building that we're investigating, I like to tell him about that too, 169 00:13:26,519 --> 00:13:31,480 because it really gives the reader a feel for that place in the atmosphere, 170 00:13:31,639 --> 00:13:37,600 and it also teaches them the history absolutely. Like for instance, one 171 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,480 thing that people don't realize about the Florida Keys is that this was all farming 172 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,360 country in the eighteen hundreds. And you know, once upon a time, 173 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:54,559 pineapples were the primary industry and eighty five some large number of all the pineapples 174 00:13:54,559 --> 00:14:01,240 eaten in the US we're grown and shipped out of the key. So when 175 00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:05,440 I so when I was doing this book, I was taking these I was 176 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,559 going on the idea that if there's a skunk cape in the area, how 177 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:15,320 would they feed themselves? And if there are gardens and groves of pineapples, 178 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,279 pineapples would definitely be a food source. Are turtle eggs, All these things 179 00:14:20,279 --> 00:14:26,240 that naturally occur would be just as they are with panthers or with bears or 180 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,279 within the other you know species in the area, they would So a lot 181 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:35,519 of my stories connect to the crypto, the history and how, in my 182 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:41,639 interpretation, how that crypted would react with these circumstances that were down down here 183 00:14:41,679 --> 00:14:46,559 at the time. Do you personally believe in the existence of the Skunk Cape? 184 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:52,279 Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely, there have been before you get going. 185 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,440 I mean, as you stated earlier, six of the seven continents all have 186 00:14:56,559 --> 00:15:03,080 a story about a human encrypto like this being whatever, whatever the name is, 187 00:15:03,159 --> 00:15:09,000 Skunk Cape, sasquatch Yettie, a bottable snowman. Every continent but Antarctica 188 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,480 has these stories and they go back for the hundreds of years, and most 189 00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:18,960 of most of the indigenous people, their elders tell these stories about the hairy 190 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,639 man, you know. Yes, And and it's too I mean, you 191 00:15:22,679 --> 00:15:26,000 can't it's hard to get three people to stick to one lie, you know. 192 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,519 I can't imagine having, you know, a whole world trying to propagate 193 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,440 some piece of fiction and some you know thing when there's tracks, when there's 194 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:39,159 evidence, everything's short of an actual body. But it's there's just too much 195 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,919 evidence. There's it's it's it's come out for too long. So yes, 196 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:48,639 I am an absolute believer. So what do you think is the explanation as 197 00:15:48,679 --> 00:15:54,039 to how they've managed to evade capture an actual really, Well, a friend 198 00:15:54,039 --> 00:15:56,919 of mine got a great picture of one, and I know that people are 199 00:15:56,919 --> 00:16:02,159 going to argue that it's a but it's not. And I know that it's 200 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:07,399 not. But that's one in a million. I don't see too many pictures 201 00:16:07,399 --> 00:16:11,360 that I could actually say wow, that legitimately looks real. And I mean 202 00:16:11,399 --> 00:16:15,759 I've heard, I've heard the possibility of it being interdimensional, which could explain 203 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:22,159 them evading photographs, especially with modern technology. But what do you think, 204 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,320 Well, there's a couple and I address this in my own way in my 205 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:32,559 book, because I do the interdimensional portion of it, and there's also that 206 00:16:32,759 --> 00:16:37,399 that alien connection that some people talk about as well. But as far as 207 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,720 that's the skunk gape, like in the Everglades, it's such a dense and 208 00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:47,919 that this would go the same in Washington and Oregon and these you know, 209 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:55,720 and in these largely unpopulated areas. It is easy to be standing in the 210 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:02,120 Everglades with a partner and that partner take two or three steps into the woods, 211 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:07,359 into you know, into the hammock, and completely disappear. It's just 212 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:14,279 so thick, and so it's easy for for things to become lost. How 213 00:17:14,279 --> 00:17:17,359 many times do you are you walking and you almost stepped on a on a 214 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,880 water moccassin or a rattlesnake, because it blends it into the environment, you 215 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:26,319 know. Yeah, I think there are reasonable explanations. I feel strong with 216 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:33,680 that. They are intelligent creatures and I'm sure there is a graveyard somewhere and 217 00:17:33,759 --> 00:17:38,640 perhaps when someone in their clan or however you want to talk about it falls 218 00:17:40,079 --> 00:17:44,079 or you know, dies and they are carried away and disposed of. So 219 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,079 they they Yeah, exactly, like like any group of people would do the 220 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,960 same. I believe that exactly. I was just going to say that you 221 00:17:55,039 --> 00:17:57,319 picked at knock. Yeah, we were thinking on the same level there, 222 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,920 so yeah, I do agree to agree. Well, you were mentioning the 223 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,559 skunk Ape headquarters. Is that is that in how do you say, O, 224 00:18:07,279 --> 00:18:15,079 CHOPI or And it's considered a research center too. That's David Sey's place, 225 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,000 and he has considered the the foremost, as far as I'm concerned, 226 00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:22,440 the foremost expert in the skunk Gape, and that has been in his family 227 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:27,759 for for decades. I had heard something like that, Yeah, and uh, 228 00:18:27,799 --> 00:18:32,839 I mean he lives he's a gladesman. His family, his son's a 229 00:18:32,839 --> 00:18:37,119 gladesman. People who have grown up, grown up in this environment, and 230 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,119 they have been out in the Everlades and that's where they both. That's where 231 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,319 he grew up. That's where his children grew up. He has spent more 232 00:18:44,319 --> 00:18:48,440 hours searching for this creature and studying this creature than anybody on the planet. 233 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,839 And that's his home is right there, and that's where. It's a campground. 234 00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:57,880 It's also you know, something of a roadside attraction, but it's also 235 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:03,200 where he that's also his headquarters and where he bases his his you know, 236 00:19:03,839 --> 00:19:10,640 his investigations from Do you know anything about the Southernmost Skunk Ape Society Because I 237 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,839 heard something about that, but I didn't know really what it was. Yes, 238 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,119 I can tell you a little bit about that since I made it up. 239 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:22,160 Oh yeah, okay, that is. That is from my book, 240 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,839 and that is my two characters are Nick and Cliff in the book, and 241 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:34,160 they established this Southernmost Skunk Cape Society and that's kind of what they brand themselves. 242 00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:37,599 And I, you know, I made a logo. You can buy 243 00:19:37,599 --> 00:19:41,279 t shirts on Amazon. Um nice, here, here's something funny, all 244 00:19:41,319 --> 00:19:47,559 right, that's very clever. So I live on the Florida Keys and I'm 245 00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:51,240 walking my dog one day and unbeknownst to me that my neighbor of three houses 246 00:19:51,279 --> 00:19:56,400 down is a local fishing guide who's a big, big skunk cape guy, 247 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,079 and he had he before he knew who I was and that I was around 248 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,799 who wrote I was the one who wrote the book. He had the logo, 249 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,839 not the words, but the but the emblem tattooed on his back. 250 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:17,519 Oh yeah, so it doesn't say but it's a colorful. It's a colorful 251 00:20:17,559 --> 00:20:19,759 logo, you know, with a skunk cape walking on the beach with palm 252 00:20:19,759 --> 00:20:25,359 trees and it's red, yellow and turquoise. But I was we got talking 253 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,319 one day and it's like, but I think I had my shirt on. 254 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,759 I think I had a Skunk Cape Society shirt on, which I see when 255 00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:34,160 sometimes out in the wild, which is always always very funny. But that 256 00:20:34,279 --> 00:20:38,839 is uh, yeah, that's that was a a marketing fun things that I 257 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:44,559 did, and that probably was very exciting for him to see you were in 258 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,000 the T shirt. Yeah, Oh my gosh, that is really funny. 259 00:20:48,079 --> 00:20:52,759 Do you have any desire to write any other books about other cryptids? Or 260 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,400 was this year one and only and you're done with that. I've done several 261 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:02,000 stories about Florida based cryptids that have been published in magazines. It's not a 262 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,279 one off. I may go back and do something, you know, Skunky 263 00:21:04,319 --> 00:21:08,079 Files Part two. It's a book I self published. It was it was 264 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:14,160 pretty successful for being a self published book. David Shealey has been a great 265 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:21,000 supporter of the book. And I know some of the other cryptid professionals out 266 00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:26,039 out in the world who appear on these shows aren't a fan of my book 267 00:21:26,079 --> 00:21:29,839 and aren't a fan of what I did, and oh boy, they give 268 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,720 him grief for carrying my book. Oh boy, But it's a yeah, 269 00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:37,279 hey, if it's going to help raise funds for his research center, and 270 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,400 you are not hiding the fact that their fictional stories, I don't know what 271 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,319 the big deal is, you know what I mean. Like, it's not 272 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,359 as if you're trying to pull the wool over people's eyes. You're telling them 273 00:21:48,519 --> 00:21:52,599 it's a true story that it's based on. But I've made up these stories 274 00:21:52,599 --> 00:21:57,279 for entertainment purposes, and it's it's helping to raise funds I'm sure for his 275 00:21:57,319 --> 00:22:02,200 research center. By him carrying the book in his building, So I don't 276 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,720 know what's goin to raise, and it raises awareness about about the creature. 277 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,960 And sure, the first line on the back cover I think is, you 278 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,759 know, this is historical fiction. The first line inside of the book, 279 00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:18,079 this is historical fiction. People don't apparently read those. Yeah, because people 280 00:22:18,319 --> 00:22:22,759 love this book or hate this book. And most of the complaints or the 281 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,960 really bad reviews are people who buy it thinking it's real and then find out 282 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,640 that it's not and get mad and you know, sorry, I can't help 283 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,960 you. I've been very sorry. Yeah, I've been very upfront about this 284 00:22:36,039 --> 00:22:38,920 is you know right what it is, And like you said, bringing bringing 285 00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:42,440 awareness to the existence of the skunk Gate isn't that the most important thing? 286 00:22:42,799 --> 00:22:47,200 Absolutely? So why don't you tell us the name of the book? Oh? 287 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,039 Yeah, it is called the Florida Keys Skunk Gate Files, Okay, 288 00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:56,640 and it is set in nineteen seventy seven. It is all about It kind 289 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,359 of stems from my main character, Nick, who has has an uncle who 290 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,119 lives in who lives in Key West, who passes away and Nick has given 291 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:11,319 his house. So Nick is coming down on the righthound bus to to stay 292 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,079 at the house and it just so happens that the same week that he comes 293 00:23:15,079 --> 00:23:18,599 down in nine in July nineteen seventy seven is the time when the Skunk Cape 294 00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:22,319 event in Key Largo happens, and he reads the story in the paper. 295 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,599 And then when he gets to Key West. When he gets gets to Key 296 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:32,400 West, he finds two banker's boxes up in the attic filled with all these 297 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:37,160 events that his his uncle had been collected, all these cryptic events interesting. 298 00:23:37,599 --> 00:23:41,759 And so the story is that he and his he and a friend that he 299 00:23:41,839 --> 00:23:48,039 makes go through the events and they begin to re examine and kind of try 300 00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:51,920 to, you know, and reinvestigate, and then the men in Black get 301 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,000 involved and you know, their myterious disappearances. I love that. But it's 302 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,640 so it's so it's really three stories and one it's it's it's history book. 303 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,519 It's some really fun florid skunk Cape stories. And I put the skunk Cape 304 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:10,960 with Postilione, with John James Audubon, with Thomas Edison. I put him 305 00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:17,960 a lot with famous people and kind of telling alternative histories in a way. 306 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:23,440 And I also use I used the book to explain. For instance, in 307 00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:26,759 one story I talked about there's a small island called Indian Key. And on 308 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:32,680 Indian Key there is this this feature called the Mystery Feature. This is a 309 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,839 state park and the state park has labeled the Mystery Feature. And what it 310 00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:44,279 really was was when Henry Flagler was building because overseas railroad from Miami to Key 311 00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:48,920 West, fresh water was very difficult to find. And some of Henry Flagler's 312 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,960 men were on Indian Key trying to look for that. This part is true, 313 00:24:52,319 --> 00:24:59,960 trying to look for fresh water, and they had created this the excavation 314 00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:03,519 drilled down like I don't know, ninety feet or something looking for looking for 315 00:25:03,599 --> 00:25:08,480 fresh water. And that part is true. And the whole left in the 316 00:25:08,519 --> 00:25:14,359 ground as a result of that. Now, and this is kind of how 317 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,880 my stories go. In this story, as Henry Flagger's men, and I 318 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,440 tell all the story about fresh water and how difficult it is and what the 319 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,119 men were doing there and how deep they went down. How I changed the 320 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,079 narrative was that what the men discovered was as they drilled down, they came 321 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:37,119 upon a cave. And I placed several skunk cape caves throughout the Florida Keys, 322 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,920 and there are no key at caves. And this is an Asia of 323 00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:44,119 coral reef. There are no caves down here. As they drilled down and 324 00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:49,839 it opened up this cave. That night, they heard noises around the islands. 325 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,680 It's a very small eleven acre island. And they found after they when 326 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,559 they woke up, they found these large footprints. And so what they did 327 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,839 was they were scared and they blew up up the cave and to seal it. 328 00:26:03,599 --> 00:26:07,559 And that's what that's what the mystery feature is was this former Skunk Cape 329 00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:10,599 cave that has now been kind of now it's like a like a ten foot 330 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,680 deep depression that just sitting there. But I use but I use a lot 331 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:19,319 of I use a lot of legitimate sites and legitimate history and the Florida Keys 332 00:26:19,319 --> 00:26:22,759 and kind of altered them in that way. But going back, I love 333 00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:26,839 it. I'm really looking forward to reading it for sure. It's on my 334 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:32,279 wish list. So and and going back, like the portal thing, this 335 00:26:32,759 --> 00:26:37,440 the Skunk Cape caves which I put up and down the keys. There are 336 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,079 instances of the skunk capes going in never coming back out, and when the 337 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,000 people going looking for them, they can smell the essence that the smell, 338 00:26:45,319 --> 00:26:49,440 but they're gone. And these these skunk cape caves are portals where in my 339 00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:56,960 book the skun cakes can travel between the islands. Mhm. That almost sounds 340 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:02,400 similar to where I live in Sussex County. We have underground tunnels in the 341 00:27:02,759 --> 00:27:07,400 county and the surrounding counties and it's known that back in the day, families 342 00:27:07,559 --> 00:27:11,119 would go through the tunnels to get to the other side of town on very 343 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,240 hot days because it's so cool down there. And a lot of the entrances 344 00:27:15,319 --> 00:27:21,799 have been sealed up when buildings have been put in their places, and then 345 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,559 there have been accidents where people have died going into them, so they obviously 346 00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:30,000 want to keep them shut for those reasons, but it makes for a good 347 00:27:30,079 --> 00:27:36,960 story, Like you were talking, these caves for them to go in, 348 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,599 maybe get to another place or come out somewhere else on the island. So 349 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,880 that really does ring true for me in the county that I live in. 350 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,079 And also, like the cover of my book, if I had, I 351 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:53,319 also hired a hired someone to make these from original drawings kind of depicting some 352 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,559 of the stories, and the cover of the book is a skunk cape running 353 00:27:57,599 --> 00:28:02,599 down the seven Mile Bridge with a locomotive from the nineteen twenties, you know, 354 00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:06,440 deciding with the locomotive bearing down on him. And I took that because 355 00:28:06,519 --> 00:28:11,920 there was an actual story of one of the engineers who saw a panther on 356 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:17,240 the tracks and so and so the panther is running. I just kind of 357 00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:22,039 you know, it's yeah, because I because you know, once these bridges 358 00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:26,680 were built, that would be an obvious way for creatures to move back and 359 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,400 forth between islands. M hmm, well I had I had mentioned to you 360 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,640 that in nineteen forty two earlier, a man said that one of the creatures 361 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,680 hitched to ride on the running board of his car. So that actually was 362 00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:41,599 something that was said to have happened. So it's not too far off of 363 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,960 that story. The similarity. Yeah. And one, you know, one 364 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,079 of the things that kills me about because you look at a lot of these 365 00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:55,839 I belonged to a lot of crypted Bigfoot skunk Cape Facebook groups, you know, 366 00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,119 and and some of the nonsense that gets posted, the obvious nonsense that 367 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:08,160 gets posted, these pictures that have been completely foreign photoshops and and people you 368 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,440 know, and if you look at it and do I don't like thirty eight 369 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,200 seconds, with the research, you can find what the actual photograph was, 370 00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:19,880 and and you can just show people what it is and and it's it's really 371 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,000 remarkable that, you know, I know a lot of people have a hard 372 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:30,720 time being taken seriously because of their beliefs in this thing. And it doesn't 373 00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:33,920 help that there are so many people trying to pass off bogus stuff, you 374 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,559 know, when there when there are so many, so many legitimate stories and 375 00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:44,799 and things that are you know, and so many stories some some many legitimate 376 00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:48,680 stories and some many pictures that are actually perhaps legitimate, and to have these 377 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,400 people pass this stuff off and just clog up these sites and and create allos 378 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,079 antimosity going back and forth, and it's it's and then you know, don't 379 00:29:57,079 --> 00:30:02,000 give me a hard time because I said mind was fiction, right right? 380 00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:07,359 Well, how can listeners get a hold of you and find out more information 381 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,200 about you and your books because you've written others. Well, my Southernmost skun 382 00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:17,519 Cape Society does have a Twitter Twitter account, okay, and there is a 383 00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:19,400 Facebook page for the Southern Most Skunk Cape Society to you, but don't don't 384 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,839 do much of that. What I am is I'm really a Florida Keys historian, 385 00:30:23,119 --> 00:30:27,279 and I my Facebook group is called Florida Keys History with Brad Bertelly, 386 00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:33,440 and I do a history post every day on that. My website is Brad 387 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:41,920 Bertelly dot com and I do a lot of investigating on local legends. My 388 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,960 next book coming out next month, is largely based on a legendary pirate named 389 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:53,599 Black Caesar, who has been really enmeshed into local history because there are kernels 390 00:30:53,599 --> 00:30:59,359 of truth about his story that have been kind of placed. The pirate is 391 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,640 complete, Gus, it's a it's a complete legend. But that's one of 392 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,200 my that's one you know. What I like to do is look at these 393 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,519 legends, look at these myths and kind of debunked them by going back and 394 00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:11,799 looking at all the information and all you know, and kind of making sense 395 00:31:11,839 --> 00:31:17,839 of the kernels of truth and showing why they how they came about, and 396 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,880 why they aren't quite true. But every good story, every good lie, 397 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,680 or every good myth or legend has a kernel of truth that you know, 398 00:31:22,759 --> 00:31:26,839 kind of anchors. Sure. Well, the Keys, You're so lucky to 399 00:31:26,839 --> 00:31:30,319 live there. It's a beautiful place. We visited it and I want to 400 00:31:30,319 --> 00:31:33,519 go back again. It's just so lovely there. So I'm I'm jelly. 401 00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:37,880 Yeah, I have to hear twenty or two years now, and so and 402 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,880 I we're lucky enough to buy a house in the market crash my wife and 403 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,480 I. So we we love it here. I love. I love what 404 00:31:45,559 --> 00:31:48,880 I do. I'm a writer by you know, by trade. I love 405 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:57,359 exploring not just history but legends, and I love I love talking about the 406 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:04,720 Skunk Cape and Bigfoot and and those cryptids and sharing those stories and ill and 407 00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:08,640 looking at them a little more critically than than maybe some people do. But 408 00:32:09,079 --> 00:32:12,640 there is just you know, a lot, like you said, do I 409 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,039 believe in it? There can't be that much information out there. There can't 410 00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:21,279 be that many people saying it for hundreds of years on six different continents and 411 00:32:21,359 --> 00:32:27,119 not have some some validity to it to it. Yeah, well this was 412 00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:30,200 a really fun interview. Thank you so much for opening up your world to 413 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,160 me. I appreciate it. Oh, thank you for having me on. 414 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:37,839 I appreciate you having me on and giving me a chance to talk. Thank 415 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,440 you And to the listeners. If you like listening to this week's episode and 416 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,720 you're into all things paranormal, check out my other show, Eleanor Wagner's Creeping 417 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,759 It Real. Podcast out of the Coast to Coast Entertainment Network, which is 418 00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:52,759 available wherever you get your podcasts. And if any of you are interested in 419 00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:54,599 reading any of my books, you can find the links to them on my 420 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,640 website or eleanor Wagner dot com. I write about the history of the town 421 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,519 and local and the paranormal story and finish it all off with photos and evidence. 422 00:33:04,759 --> 00:33:07,119 Everybody loves a good ghost story, but there's nothing better than a true 423 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:13,559 ghost story, so check it out author eleanor wer dot Ghostly listeners. You 424 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,720 can follow me on my website, author eleanor Wagner dot com, where there 425 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:23,079 are links to my books and video updates and photographs. Thank you, paranormal 426 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:30,200 enthusiasts for tuning in today. I hope you'll come back again. Remember to 427 00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:35,680 tap into your own guests. Everyone has doubt and in the meantime, make 428 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:53,880 sure you're creeping it real video hang um d I dooda dood viny