WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.759 A PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add free access to these shows 2 00:00:03.799 --> 00:00:06.919 and a ton of other VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also 3 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:11.960 gain access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous week to 4 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:16.000 week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, 5 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:20.280 along with streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from the 6 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:24.960 nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, 7 00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:29.000 and also our podcast library dating back to the year two thousand and three. 8 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:34.200 There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes 9 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:38.799 with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now approaching twenty years of podcasting, go 10 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:42.479 vip and dive into our post pay per view roundtables, our coverage of some 11 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:47.240 of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews, and special 12 00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:52.920 format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. Pwtorch dot com slash go vip. 13 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:55.840 We have a streamline sign up for me and you can pay with PayPal 14 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.359 or directly with your credit card or debit card. In one or two minutes 15 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:02.320 from right now, you can be a VIP member and diving into our library. 16 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:18.359 PW torch dot com, slash go VIP now, PW Torch and Spreaker 17 00:01:18.439 --> 00:01:22.879 bring you the Wide Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview 18 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:32.400 Classic, where Wade Keller interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers ten years ago. 19 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:36.159 This week I interviewed Bob Holly, Hardcore Bob Holly for about two and a 20 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:40.599 half hours. We had live callers, we had email questions. Fascinating show 21 00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:44.280 covering a wider ray of topics, including how stiff is Rob Van Dam, 22 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:47.599 How would Bob react to a change in the pay per view bonus payoff structure 23 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:52.719 during WWE's transition to w Network, How would he improve tough enough? Did 24 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:57.480 he face Southern stereotypes in WWE? His thoughts on the current TNA, the 25 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:00.680 top rope headbut dangers, the move that Harley Ray warrened wrestlers not to use. 26 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:04.239 Chris VNOI used it. I might have contributed to some of his health 27 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:07.680 issues, and Brian Danielson has used it despite you know Bobby's warning signs. 28 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:10.879 That's not a good idea. What did Bob Holly think about it over is 29 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:15.319 it overplayed? Or is it a serious concern? And much more. This 30 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:21.599 originally live streamed on May ninth, twenty fourteen, and it is today's Wad 31 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:30.039 Keller Progressing Podcast Interview Classic for Sunday, May twelfth, twenty twenty four Welcome 32 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:32.879 to the p W Torch Live Cast. I am Wade Keller, editor and 33 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:39.400 publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter since nineteen eighty seven and also pwtorch dot 34 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:44.800 com since nineteen ninety nine, the PW Torch apps on iPhone, Android and 35 00:02:44.919 --> 00:02:49.199 Samsung's martvs since two thousand and eight, and also host of this to PW 36 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:53.719 Torch Livecast, which is on every day at PW torch livecast dot com. 37 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:58.159 We've been on the air since the end of two thousand and nine and we 38 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:01.520 have been doing Interview Fry for feels like, Hey, it's about three and 39 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:06.439 a half years now, and it is Friday, May eighth, or excuse 40 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:08.599 me, Friday, May nine, twenty fourteen, and because it's Friday, 41 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:13.439 that means it is Interview Friday. And I am very pleased to introduce a 42 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:17.599 returning guest, one of our favorite repeat guests on the program Hardcore Bob Holly, 43 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:21.319 Bob, welcome back to the show. Hey, thank you, Wade, 44 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.560 thank you for having me. I love being on your show. You 45 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:25.840 know, you guys put on a great show, and I just I'm I'm 46 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:29.719 really glad you guys always asked me to come back on because I really enjoyed, 47 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:32.439 you know, being on your show. You're very kind and we would 48 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:35.919 have you on anyway, but we get requests to have you back on, 49 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:38.280 and it helps give us a nudge to go. How long has it been. 50 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:40.120 It's been a couple of months. Let's give Bob a call because you're 51 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:44.479 popular guest, so that is fantastic. I do want to note that the 52 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:46.960 PW Torch Live cast is brought to you every day by Audible, a language 53 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:52.439 all kinds of good stuff that's Audibletrial dot Com, Flash Pro Wrestling Torch. 54 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:55.199 Bob, what is we're talking about the vikings off air before I went on 55 00:03:55.240 --> 00:04:00.240 the air giving our opinions on the quarterback situation with the Viking straft of the 56 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:02.479 second round. I don't follow college football super closely, so I don't know 57 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:05.039 a lot about who he drafted, and I've been so busy today. I 58 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:08.960 haven't had a chance to read up on him, but I am interested in 59 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:12.199 you and I were saying, what would be nice not to be like the 60 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:16.279 Packers in any other way except one way, have a franchise quarterback who's around 61 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:20.519 for ten or fifteen years. Yes, Yes, And hopefully this guy that 62 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:25.199 they picked up, you know, he comes from Louisville, and I'm hoping 63 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:29.560 he's the guy because that, you know, like we said earlier, that's 64 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:31.519 to me, that's what the Vikings have been lacking, is a good quarterback. 65 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:35.040 You know, They've they've had great running backs, they've had great receivers. 66 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:39.920 You know, they got a good line, and the Vikings have always 67 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:42.560 been hit and missed that. You know, they'll make the playoffs one year, 68 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:46.920 than the next few years they'll they'll flounder and then they might make it 69 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:51.600 again or whatever. But I really believe that, you know, the quarterback 70 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:56.000 is the key position that they need. And I'm hoping this guy is the 71 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:58.399 guy. I can't remember his name right off the top of my head, 72 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:01.319 but I hope he's the one because he didn't you say he went in the 73 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.399 second round, wasn't it. Yeah? Yeah, second round? Yeah, 74 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:09.360 So that's that's pretty good, I would say, you know that bad. 75 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:14.560 Absolutely, I'm hoping, you know, they get they get a decent quarterback 76 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:17.160 where they can stay in contention year after year for a few years. Because 77 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:21.600 see, for the people up in Minnesota that don't know that, I've been 78 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:27.560 a Vikings fan, you know, for ever since I guess I could understand 79 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:30.839 football, ever since fourth grade when I knew what football was. You know, 80 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:35.199 I've followed the Vikings all of my life. I'm a huge, huge 81 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:39.720 and if you go on my Twitter page of course at the Bob Holly, 82 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:44.360 You'll see I have an authentic Vikings jersey that I bought and that thing wasn't 83 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:46.360 cheap. But that just shows you I am. You know, I'm a 84 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:51.160 huge Vikings fan. Very cool, very cool, I am too. I 85 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:55.480 was a season ticket older during that fifteen and one season, and for a 86 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:58.439 few years before that, I wasn't just a fair weather fan. And for 87 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:01.560 a few years afterwards, I don't know, Jason Paul and I had season 88 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:05.319 tickets for I guess seven years. I could be off by year either way, 89 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:09.560 but those are a lot of fun times. And that Metrodome is gone. 90 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:12.439 I know you'll be in town here next month, Bob, because you'll 91 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:15.000 be working in an indie show up I think in Duluth, and you'll be 92 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:20.800 a yeah, go ahead, is it June seventh? June seventh, yep, 93 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:24.079 yeah, talk about that for a minute, then I'll talk about the 94 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:28.600 dome. What's the indie date coming up? Ju June seventh and Duluth, 95 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:32.279 Minnesota. It's heavy on wrestling. David Tabit runs it, and this is 96 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.399 the first time me being you know, wrestling for them, so and I'm 97 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:39.240 looking forward to it. I'm wrestling a guy named Luke Hawks, I guess, 98 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:43.399 and I guess he's been going on Twitter running his mouth about me, 99 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:46.160 saying he's gonna whip my ass. And you know a bunch of people have 100 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:48.600 said that and they've they've tried and failed. So this is just another one 101 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:53.079 of those cases where I guess he's probably gonna fail. So but anyway, 102 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:56.839 you know, I'm really looking forward to it. David saying he's a really 103 00:06:56.839 --> 00:06:59.720 good guy from whatever. From what I understand, I've never worked for him 104 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:02.120 before, but I'm really looking forward to it. And I hope everybody you 105 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:08.079 know comes out and supports the show excellent. So that's into luthon June seventh, 106 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:13.079 Heavy on Wrestling is the Just search that in Google and you'll find Uh, 107 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:15.120 I'm sure you'll find the match listing in more details on that. As 108 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.199 that date approaches, when you come to town, Bob, you're gonna notice 109 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:21.319 there is no Metrodome anymore. It's a big pilot rubble. Yes, it's 110 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:25.319 gone. And you know. And that's another thing too. I meant to 111 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:29.600 tell you everybody is I've never been to a Vikings game and we're gonna We're 112 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:33.079 trying to work it out this summer where we're gonna go to a Vikings game 113 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:36.959 and hopefully I can because I've never been. I've never been. Well, 114 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:40.600 it'd be fun to go to the University of Minnesota campus to see a game 115 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:44.040 this year. Then that'll be an A chance to go see an outdoor football 116 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:46.720 game will be cool. Yeah, yeah, and uh, hopefully it's very 117 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:51.360 cool. I hate weather. I do want to note we have a new 118 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:56.959 sponsor on the show. This show is now sponsored by Nature Box ordered. 119 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:01.879 We're about to go to a commercial break. Whyless into commercial breaks when you 120 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:05.480 can go vi ip and experience our shows with the ads and plugs removed. 121 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:09.480 PW torch dot com slash go VP. That's PW Torch dot com slash go 122 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:15.360 VIP for full details, or go to Patreon Patreon dot com slash PW Torch. 123 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:18.160 VIP ratestart as low as four dollars in ninety nine cents to remove the 124 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:22.199 ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts at nine dollars in ninety 125 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:26.360 nine cents to treat yourself to a streamlined, AD and plug free listening experience 126 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:35.039 with a VIP or Patreon membership dot com slash Pro Wrestling Torch. We're gonna 127 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:39.679 be taking phone calls for hardcore. Bob Holly, a long time veteran of 128 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:45.320 the WWF and WWE. You were there for the transition and name. I 129 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:50.480 had a s PW Torch article go up earlier on the website that asked, 130 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:54.480 you know, who's the longest tenured wrestler in WWF, and you know, 131 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.279 besides the Undertaker, because obviously Undertakers the longest in terms of not having gone 132 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:03.240 somewhere else and left or retire and made a comeback just incredible. Who's on 133 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:07.159 the all star panel mentioned? Steve Lombardi might qualify just because he's always you 134 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:11.919 know, he's been working for him and makes these cameos. Kine obviously is 135 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:13.639 right there with Undertaker. I don't know if you count Steve Lombardi. I 136 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:18.840 think it's kind of stretching it, but Glenn Jacobs Kane is there. But 137 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:22.039 Bob, I mean you you're one of the longer tenured guys too. How 138 00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:24.799 many straight years did you work there? I believe it was like fifteen, 139 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:30.000 almost sixteen. Yeah, Shan Michaels has been there a long time too now, 140 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:31.440 but he left and came back, So I don't know if that. 141 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:35.120 You know, I think you got to beat according to our criteria because we're 142 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:39.919 talking about uninterrupted years. Oh okay, okay, yeah, yeah, well 143 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:43.720 yeah then uh yeah, I was close to almost sixteen years. I do 144 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.440 believe, if I'm not mistaken. So yeah, I think if you're if 145 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:48.799 you're out for more than a couple of years, then that breaks the streak. 146 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:50.639 If you're out for you know, nine months with a knee injury or 147 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:54.240 something, I think you're still with the company. Michael. I mean he 148 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:56.759 had a clean break and really did retire and you know, with all the 149 00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:01.279 back issues and came back. But yeah, you definitely have tons of experience. 150 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:05.000 You put out a fantastic book last year, and that's the reason we 151 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:09.399 had you on the show the first time we have recommended. It's so highly 152 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:11.440 on the show. But we have new listeners all the time. We're growing 153 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:15.519 all the time, and I really do want to plug Bob Holly's book. 154 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:18.799 Bob talk about it a little bit, tell people where they can order it, 155 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.360 and I'll talk about it afterwards too, But give it a good plug 156 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:26.600 because it is. It is absolutely highly recommended if you're fascinated with hearing a 157 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:28.840 story from a rent. Here I go into a plug and I was going 158 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:31.720 to throw to you if you're interested in hearing, if you're interested in hearing 159 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.559 a wrestler, tell it like it is, who is behind the scenes for 160 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:39.960 as long as Bob Holly was, and to do so without the cloud of 161 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:43.679 worry that, oh, this is going to be filtered through Vince McMahon's desk 162 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:46.039 before WWE publishes it. Then it's not that Bob went out and just was, 163 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:48.639 you know, like it was. It's not like some old tom Zinc 164 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:52.120 blog online where it's just paring them apart, or some old Ultimate Orior blog 165 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:56.679 or just pearing Vince apart. But it isn't. It isn't. You can 166 00:10:56.679 --> 00:10:58.759 tell it's not filtered with the thought of ooh, I better check myself. 167 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:03.720 You know what, Evince think it's a really fair balanced, hard hitting, 168 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:09.039 honest book and it covers so much territory and you'll learn so much about the 169 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:11.919 brawl for all and what it's like to just what it's like to be in 170 00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:16.759 the locker room. So many cool insights from Bob Holly. I'm appreciative that 171 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:20.279 he wrote the book, and I'm so proud to plug it with no endorsement 172 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:24.879 deal or anything like that, just recommending it highly. Bob, tell people 173 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.720 about where they can find it online and or you know it's probably in bookstores 174 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:31.200 too. Well. I number one, I appreciate your endorsement way because that 175 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.559 that means a lot to me. You know that means a lot. And 176 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:37.559 I know you wouldn't just say that just to just to make me happy, 177 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:43.320 but no. I you know Ross Williams, who co authored the book with 178 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.600 me, He's the one. He's he's the magic behind the book. You 179 00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:48.000 know, I just told my story, but he put it down in my 180 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:52.919 words to make it where when you were reading it, it sounded like I 181 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:58.240 was telling you the stories and and you know, like like Wade said that, 182 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:01.600 you know, when I wrote this book, you know, we did 183 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:05.279 talk about, you know, hey, maybe getting WWE to endorse the book 184 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.000 or you know, help us out here. But then I got to think, 185 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:11.480 and well, they're going to cut a lot of stuff out. And 186 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:15.519 I didn't want that because it's it's just a raw book to where it's my 187 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:20.519 feelings how I felt at the time of everything that went on through my tenure 188 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:26.840 at WWE. And you know, and and I think I was pretty fair 189 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:31.159 in my book because you know, take Triple H for example, He's not 190 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:37.080 a favorite person of mine, yet I talk about my dislikes about him, 191 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:41.159 but I also put him over at the same time. So I'm you know, 192 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:43.759 I'm not just burying somebody to you know, I don't bury somebody to 193 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:48.679 bury him. You know. I talk about the good points and the bad 194 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.080 points about the people in there, and you know, and I just don't 195 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:54.000 get on somebody and just and rip them apart. I don't do that, 196 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:58.559 right. And you know, I give my personal feelings on you know, 197 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:03.480 certain guys, you know, how I felt they were and how they were 198 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:07.320 perceived in the locker room and and things like that, and you know, 199 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:09.720 and I just I didn't cut any corners, and you know, I just 200 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:13.879 I wanted to be you know, I wanted it to be where when you 201 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:18.559 read my book, you weren't wondering, Okay, there's no gray area. 202 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.720 You know, it's black and white. And then that's just the way it 203 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.679 is, you know, and that's and that's how I am in real life. 204 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:28.960 And you addressed you dressed. I think all are certainly most of the 205 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:33.679 top controversies that you were involved in behind the scenes, because during your years 206 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:35.639 there, I mean, I had written stories about controversies that you're involved in, 207 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:39.039 and you know, we tried to cover all sides of the argument, 208 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:41.559 but you know, it wasn't a time where you were speaking on record and 209 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:46.879 giving your side of things. This book put a lot of perspective on a 210 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:50.360 lot of things that that you had a reputation for. And Bruce Mitchell, 211 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.279 senior columnists for The Torch, who was not easily swayed or isn't going to 212 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:56.080 buy into a line of bs. He's going to see through it. And 213 00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:58.120 he came away from your book going, you know, I looked at some 214 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:01.000 things differently than I did at the time that we were covering it in the 215 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.399 newsletter. And I love when that happens in a book, when we can 216 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:07.720 see another side of a story and add light to it and shed light on 217 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:11.799 it. And your book did that. And see that's another reason too why 218 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:16.480 I wanted to write it, because there was so many stories out there about 219 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:18.639 me, how I am and this and that, and you know, and 220 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:24.360 how I treat people and things like that. You know, the question that 221 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:26.759 I'd like to ask people, you know, when people say, oh, 222 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:30.879 you know, Bob Holly was a bully. He beat people up for no 223 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:37.759 reason, and he hurt people. Name one guy other than Matt Capitelli that 224 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:41.600 I gave a bloody nose or a bloody lip, or knocked their teeth out 225 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:45.639 or put them out of work. The whole time I was with WWE, 226 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:52.240 all fifteen almost sixteen years, not one person missed one day of work because 227 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:54.360 of me. You know, that whole Matt Capitelly situation, that was a 228 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.200 different situation because you know, and I talk about that in my book too, 229 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.799 because he was like a fish out of water. He wouldn't sit still. 230 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:05.519 And I happened to catch him. But other than that, you know, 231 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:07.919 people got to stop and think, you know, when they hear stories 232 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:11.240 about me, Oh, Bob Holly did this to this guy and did this. 233 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:15.039 If that was the case, do you think Vince McMahon would have kept 234 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:16.840 me for as long as he did? No, he wouldn't. If I 235 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.240 was that bad in the locker room and treated people poorly in the locker room 236 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.879 and bully people around, do you think McMahon would have kept me, No, 237 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:26.720 he wouldn't have, you know. So it opens up a lot of 238 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:33.519 eyes to you know, the rumors out there that swirled about me for all 239 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:35.799 these years, and it makes you stop and think, you know, hey, 240 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.879 you know, he does have a point, you know. So we 241 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:43.320 are going to talk a lot about current events that today's show too, but 242 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.559 we welcome callers calling about anything Bob has kept keeps up on wrestling today, 243 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.080 and we'd love to talk to him about Undertaker Street coming to an end, 244 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:56.279 Daniel Brian becoming world champion, lots of you know, the seam punk situation 245 00:15:56.519 --> 00:15:58.720 is walking away from wrestling see them punk. By the way, it's probably 246 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:04.000 one who's texting him go wild and that it would be me. So if 247 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:07.399 he's wondering who that is. He's in town. He's been in town since 248 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:08.960 Tuesday, at least as far as I know. He was in town Tuesday. 249 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:14.000 I think he stuck around for tonight's game at the Xcel Energy Center in 250 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:17.159 Saint Paul. And I haven't only sent a couple of texts, but I 251 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:21.159 did text him a couple of times saying go wild. And he is a 252 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:23.679 huge, huge Blackhawks fan. We actually had a caller on the live cast 253 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:29.960 yesterday Bob say they saw CM Punk and AJ at the xcel Energy Center Tuesday 254 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.759 night leaving the game. He said, because Hempunk has a reputation for not 255 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:37.639 being all that approachable, he did not go up to him. But nevertheless, 256 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:41.600 Punk is a very much a Blackhawks fan. Was interviewed on their TV 257 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.279 broadcast, I think the National TV broadcast in one of the opening games of 258 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:48.960 the series, and so he might still be in town. And I am 259 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:52.279 very pleased that he got to see the Wild crush the Stanley Cup champion Blackhawks 260 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.000 on Tuesday night. But I think it was four to zero score shut him 261 00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.840 out. So that was fun. Yes, yes, but we welcome your 262 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.840 phone calls. That's what I was kind of in a long winding way getting 263 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.359 to when. Our phone number is six four six seven two one nine A 264 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:10.519 two eight. If you've got a question for hardcore Bob Holly, please call 265 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:12.640 us right now six four, six seven nine A two eight. We do 266 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:15.920 a phone calls. We'll take seven oh two, two one three, three, 267 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.160 two oh and six oh nine will be the first four callers that we 268 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:22.599 take on today's show. Plus we've got some email questions. If you can 269 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.799 call the show but you're listening to us live, you can email us at 270 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:30.920 PW Torchlive Cast at gmail dot com. That email address again is p W 271 00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:37.839 Torch live Cast at gmail dot com. If you missed last week's show. 272 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:41.720 Jim Ross was a first time guest on the live cast. I've interviewed him 273 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.319 many times over the years for many hours. And if you wondered as a 274 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:48.359 long time Torch reader or you're a VIP member and you've gone through the archives 275 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:52.839 going how did Wade get three and four hour interviews with Jim Ross back in 276 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:56.200 the nineties and in the early two thousands, and how did how did you 277 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:57.799 get Jim to talk so long? Well, you found out if you're a 278 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:02.359 VIP member, you got to hear four hours of Jim Ross's last Friday, 279 00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:07.680 and he is He was just a fantastic guest. The feedback on his appearance 280 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.200 has been fantastic. On my twitter feed, which is at v Wade Keller 281 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:15.799 th WA d E K E l l e R at the Wade Keller, 282 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:19.920 people have been raving about it. I've also gotten email emails from people just 283 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:25.880 saying how much they learned about today's WWE and his situation. It's absolutely worth 284 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:27.680 listening to. An hour and a half was on the Free Show, the 285 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:30.559 live cast, and then we did another two and a half hours after that. 286 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:34.440 I figured after ninety minutes we'd get fifteen minutes more with Jim, you 287 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:37.640 know, maybe a half hour, but we stuck around. He stuck around 288 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:41.400 and we did four hours. So if you're not a VIP member, we'll 289 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:42.880 tell you a little bit later in the show how to go VIP into the 290 00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:47.200 show. You know, many others check it out pw torch dot com flash 291 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:51.079 go vip. We have a new sponsor. I mentioned at the beginning. 292 00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:52.839 When I am done with this plug, we're going to write to phone calls. 293 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:56.720 But Nature Box. I am excited about this sponsor. Torch. That's 294 00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:03.400 naturebox dot com slash roll Wrestling Torch Bob. I was talking to Steve Austin 295 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.559 last week on the phone. We're talking about podcasting and prepping for guests and 296 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:11.839 stuff, and I said I was eating a just called it a trail mix. 297 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:12.880 When he called, He's like, oh, people still eat that stuff. 298 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:15.079 And I'm like, well, no, no, this is this isn't 299 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:18.880 like crap like you get at the at the gas station, and I like 300 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:22.440 describe the ingredients to him. He goes, oh, oh yeah, yeah, 301 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:26.839 that's good stuff. That's good stuff. I'm not Steve's not endorsing anything. 302 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:30.160 I'm just telling you he endorsed whole food ingredients. And it was just 303 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:33.319 funny because he happened to catch me. My mouth was full when he called 304 00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:36.400 him. Were like, Steve, I'm snacking on He's like, what's going 305 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:38.920 on. I'm like, I'm snatch snacking on a trail mix, so excuse 306 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:41.680 me, I can't talk and he's like, why in that crap? And 307 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.319 then I finally swallowed the snack and told him and he's like, all right, 308 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:49.799 that's cool anyway. But I'm excited about nature Box. We are going 309 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:52.599 to announce later on the show too. The winners and Bob, you're gonna 310 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.279 have a role in this. You don't know this yet, but you're gonna 311 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.240 have a role in who the five people are. Who at fifty dollars gift 312 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:06.079 certificates to Sherry's Berries, they will there were our sponsors the last two weeks 313 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:10.799 head into the Mother's Day. They sell giant, awesome chocolate covered strawberries. 314 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:15.240 Sherry's sherrys Berries are great. It's berries dot Com. Click on the microphone 315 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:19.119 in the upright corner and enter wrestling if you want to still try to get 316 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:23.119 in on that sale. But we've got five winners and you're going to decide 317 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.920 who they are. Oh pressure, yeah, pressure. So we'll get to 318 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:30.680 that. We'll get to that in a minute here. But let's let's do 319 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:34.759 this. Let's we've had a lot of time plugged your book and VIP and 320 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:38.519 nature box. Let's go to phone calls because we do have callers on hold, 321 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:41.440 and we'll definitely get to the things we talked about also later on. 322 00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:48.319 Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts, will come join me. 323 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.720 Alan fourrel Over in the Progress Paradise at Pede retorch VIP as we mask 324 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:56.720 on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and 325 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:03.240 shows from around the world, be it US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. 326 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:06.839 There's always a place for restlings past in the Paradise too, and we've 327 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:11.960 done fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious career 328 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:15.519 of Jusian Thunderlinger and our eye was there when shows where our guests will join 329 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:19.519 me to talk about a classic bout that they were in attendance for. We 330 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:25.200 love variety and you can expect lots of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed 331 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:30.839 PW Torch VIP subscription information and a list of all the VIP benefits is available 332 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:36.079 at pww torch vip info dot com. And yes, all VIP podcasts are 333 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:41.599 compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream 334 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:45.200 them directly from our ad free VIP mobile site. See you in the Paradise. 335 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:55.200 I'll start off with a VIP member. This is the VIP Express line 336 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:57.440 Eric code seven O two. This is Tony from Las Vegas. Tony, 337 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:02.880 thanks for holding what have you got for us today? Hey? Pleasure to 338 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:06.240 talk to you guys, and I mister Bob Polly, it's pleasure to talk 339 00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:11.640 to you, and I appreciate all your stackerfices and chasing your dream mom. 340 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:15.839 You know, I've watched basically your whole career in the w w E and 341 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:18.759 uh yeah, I got a lot of respect for you. Man. Well, 342 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:22.279 thank you very much. Man. That means a lot to me. 343 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:26.720 I really it really does. Thank you. I appreciate that. You know, 344 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:30.440 I'm just sitting on my couch. Thank you for going out and doing 345 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.079 it. You know, well, I couldn't do it without you. So 346 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:37.119 just always remember that you guys are the ones that keep us there. So 347 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:40.759 you're the ones that allow us to do it by you know, doing what 348 00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:44.519 you do. So it's it's because of you, not it's not because of 349 00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:48.960 what I do. So and I appreciate it. Thank you, Oh thank 350 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:53.720 you. Do you follow up with P and A often. I watched some 351 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.440 of it, you know here and there. You know it's it's I tried 352 00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:00.160 to watch some of it the other night and I I had to turn the 353 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.039 channel. You know, I'm sorry. I just you know, I'm being 354 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:07.200 honest, and uh, you know, they just I just don't think that 355 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:15.920 they're utilizing their talent like they would. You know, I agree, Tony, 356 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:18.640 Tony, Tony, I want to just jump in, go ahead and 357 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:21.640 ask your question. I'm not going to put you on hold because we've gott 358 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:22.920 a lot of wind feedback I think from the mic on your phone. So 359 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:25.839 I ask you a question, I'll put you on hold and we'll bounce back 360 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:29.839 to you after Bob answers, Yeah, I apologize. I'm in the middle 361 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:34.240 of my poor out right now out here in Vaga. So my questions do 362 00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:40.079 you think James Storm, it's looked correctly, uh, could be a viable 363 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:44.400 face of the company for TNA if they booked do strong hearing hair going out 364 00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:48.559 to bounce for glory, possibly crowning in this champion. Then uh, do 365 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:51.759 you think you can move the marker a little bit, maybe start running some 366 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:56.559 money for the company. And then my second question was when Cody Rhodes was 367 00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:02.000 first pat up with you in the WWE, Uh, you know, did 368 00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:07.519 you form any advice or odd teach him anything that you may see him exemplifying 369 00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:12.480 nowadays. Answer to the first question, I think James Storm, you know, 370 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:17.559 he could I think he could possibly carry the company because he's he's to 371 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:19.759 me, he's a great character. He's he can talk on the microphone, 372 00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:22.519 and that's the thing, that's the main thing. If you can talk on 373 00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:26.400 the microphone really good. Which that that was something that I was not very 374 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.599 good at, and I regret. That's the only one of my only regrets 375 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:33.440 is you know, I didn't get the opportunity to really talk as much as 376 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:36.880 I wanted to because that because I knew that's where it was at. And 377 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:41.000 I think, I really think James Storms, you know, could carry the 378 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:44.119 torch for that company if if it was done properly. I really do, 379 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:47.440 because he's a great talent and he's a great guy. When I met him, 380 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:49.039 I thought he was one of the nicest guys I ever talked to, 381 00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:55.480 you know. So, and to answer your second question, Cody came from 382 00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:59.799 a wrestling family, you know, and I and I always you know, 383 00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.160 Dusty came up to me and said, you know, help the kid out, 384 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:03.480 you know, give him advice or whatever. And I'm sitting there thinking, 385 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:08.519 you know, how can I give him advice when Dusty Rose is your 386 00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:11.640 father, he knows, you know, Dusty is the man here. And 387 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:15.000 you know, out of respect for Dusty, I I just I really didn't 388 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:18.240 want to, you know, step on his toes, even though he did 389 00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:21.440 tell me, hey, you know, give him advice, you know, 390 00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:23.200 and I helped him along here and there and stuff like that, But I 391 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:27.799 really I didn't. I didn't over abuse you know, my power as far 392 00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:32.559 as is helping him, if you understand what I'm saying, you know, 393 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:37.559 because Dusty, you know, Dusty watched him, you know, watched over 394 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.079 him pretty closely, and you know, and Dusty could correct everything that he 395 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:45.440 did. But I mean I helped him on the fly during certain situations and 396 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:52.599 things like that. So but hopefully that answered your question very good, Bob. 397 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.079 I want to note since Tony brought up TNA, which just got ratings 398 00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:57.960 in while you were talking, and they did a point eight three rating last 399 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:03.160 night for the lowest rating of the year, which was back on April seventeenth, 400 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:07.440 just not not good. They just keep dropping. It was barely over 401 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:11.680 a million viewers, and Spike is just gonna want better than that. And 402 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:14.039 the deal's coming up this fall, and there's a lot of concern, you 403 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.920 know, letting Christopher Daniels go. He's you know, he sounded surprised. 404 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:21.319 Jason poul and Chris Shore on dot net Weekly, which I was listening to 405 00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:23.480 earlier. Today, we're talking about, you know, wrestler getting little worried 406 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:27.799 in TNA and starting to ask around and looking for that that the soft place 407 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:32.119 to land if there's somewhere else to go. And you look at Dixie Carter 408 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.880 being a central figure, and you know, no offense to Dixie because I 409 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:41.200 would say this regardless of how good a performer she was in her role. 410 00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:45.680 And I want to leave that out of this because I want to say I 411 00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:52.160 am so over heel authority figures in wrestling and at my interest level in TNA 412 00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:56.960 since Dixie Carter became a central figure. First of all, I just think 413 00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:02.079 it's a little unbecoming for the actual leader of a company to put themselves on 414 00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:04.799 TV that much. Unless you're Vince McMahon and you're feuding with Steve Austin. 415 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:07.519 I think that makes so much money. That's the exception. But Bob, 416 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.559 Dixie Carter as an authority figure put out there the way she is, it 417 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:18.720 reeks of let's put the person running the company on TV out there to keep 418 00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:21.839 them interested and excited because they're a movie star. So maybe the family will 419 00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:23.480 keep finding money into the promotion. We've seen that so many times over the 420 00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:26.279 years. But even that aside, I just and I wrote about this in 421 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:30.079 this week's Progressing Torch newsletter, which is available for VIP members online in PDF 422 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:34.279 format and all text format. If you're a paper magazine newsletter type person you 423 00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:37.920 like to go to the mailbox and have something they're waiting for, you can 424 00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:41.000 be a print subscriber also, and will send the paper copy to you for 425 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:42.160 just seventy five cents a week. By the way, if you're a VIP 426 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:45.559 member, you can tack on a print subscription for just seventy five cents a 427 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.000 week three bucks a month. And I wrote about it in end notes, 428 00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:52.519 I'm just ready for hill authorities figures go away, not just because I'm tired 429 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:56.400 of them, Bob, but because I think it's bad for storytelling when you 430 00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:00.119 don't have this sense that somebody's looking out for a fair, even playing fields. 431 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:03.200 Because if you don't have that sense of an even playing field, then 432 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.480 it doesn't matter if field are breaking rules. And if it doesn't matter if 433 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:08.200 fields are breaking rules, then fans look at them and go, well, 434 00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:11.039 of course they should break rules, because nobody's gonna punish them for it, 435 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:15.200 and thus they're looked at. It's the smarter of the two, baby face 436 00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:18.000 or heel, who's smarter. The ones cheating are the ones who aren't when 437 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:21.519 you don't have a baby face authority figure to what actually enforce the rules. 438 00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:25.680 So the dumbasses, excuse my language, are the baby faces for not breaking 439 00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:29.480 rules because there's no ramification. So anyway, I got my little rant out 440 00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:30.279 of the way. What do you think of that, Bob? I just 441 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:36.039 you know, I don't know if they're trying to use MVP as somebody to 442 00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:40.039 kind of be like the equalizer to Dixie as far as the baby face rule. 443 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:44.720 Yep, you no, But I just I you know it see the 444 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:48.279 way Vince did it, Vinc because Vince knows the business. That's the thing. 445 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:52.079 Vince knows the business. I don't think Dixie knows the business enough to 446 00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:55.720 know how to get it over. You know, get that, get that, 447 00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:00.400 you know that he'll figure over properly. Yeah, And you know, 448 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:04.240 like I said, it's just my opinion from what I see. And you 449 00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:08.920 know, and don't forget Jeff Jarrett's got his deal coming up to Global Wrestling 450 00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:14.400 Federation. So he's Yes, he's going to be taking a lot of guys 451 00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:18.039 too, and that's gonna leave Dixie with nobody. And they're what they're trying. 452 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:22.240 I think what they're trying to do is to keep payroll down. Pay 453 00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:26.279 these guys that are green that don't nobody knows, because they'll just take whatever 454 00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:30.160 they can get just to be on the or they'll they'll they'll work for free, 455 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:32.720 g just to be on TV. You know, these new guys and 456 00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:37.640 stuff. And I just I really think tn A is you know, they 457 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:41.599 always say they're not in trouble, but I think they are. That's just 458 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:47.079 from me. That's from somebody on the outside trying to look in and and 459 00:29:47.079 --> 00:29:52.559 and see the writing on the wall. But and a lot of things they 460 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.960 do too is a carbon copy of WWE. Yes, it's amazing. I 461 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.319 wonder if that's meant to be a joke that we're supposed to be in on 462 00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:03.640 Like I watch that, and I mean especially with Eric Young, but so 463 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:10.480 many things, Bob, you wonder if that's like if I don't even understand 464 00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:12.400 like why they do they think it's a good idea or is it a practical 465 00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:17.880 practical joke on Dixie thinking she'll never she doesn't watch WWB, she'll never know 466 00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:21.160 that our booking is just a derivative of what ww's doing. Or do they 467 00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:25.559 think they can actually pop ratings by emulating the number one company? Yeah, 468 00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:27.640 I you know, it's it's just, you know, if they were gonna 469 00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:32.440 make Eric Young world champion, that's fine and all. And you know, 470 00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:37.319 I'm for whoever deserves to be in that position. Okay, somebody who's who 471 00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:40.920 has busted their ass for all the years, put in the work, put 472 00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:45.640 in the road worked and everything to be a world champion. I'm all for 473 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.119 that, you know. I'm you know, like shame as he came in 474 00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:52.240 in six months and he was world champion. I don't like that. I 475 00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:53.599 don't like that at all, and a lot of people don't like that. 476 00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:56.160 But that's that's not what we're talking about right here. I just had to 477 00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:00.640 throw that in there. But you know, at least till Daniel Bryan's not 478 00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:06.799 world champion anymore, and then make make Eric Young champion, because it just 479 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:10.240 looks like, hey, you know, wow, I got this great idea, 480 00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:14.680 Daniel Bryan's champion WWE. Let's make Eric Young r Champion, you know, 481 00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:18.599 and it's like, at least wait six months down the road if you 482 00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:22.000 can, you know what I'm saying. That's that's my opinion, you know, 483 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.039 because it just it looks too as it is. Everything they do it 484 00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:30.720 not everything, but a lot of stuff looks like it is a carbon copy. 485 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:34.119 And you gotta also understand a lot of their writers too, came from 486 00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:38.960 WWE also, So you know John de Burrick from long time, you know, 487 00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:42.920 guy in the production side at WWWE. Are you surprised John ended up 488 00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:47.400 as head of creative and TNA? Was that something that in your experience, 489 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.400 he was known to have a knack for or an interest in in WWE during 490 00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.480 his many, many many years there. Oh my god. I was just 491 00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:56.640 shocked that he wasn't with ww anymore. Yeah, yeah, I was, 492 00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:00.400 you know, I really because him and Kevin Done. Kevin Dunn is the 493 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:06.119 producer of Raw of actually the whole you know, he pretty much runs the 494 00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:09.880 whole show. Yeah, anybody knows what Kevin Done is. He's Minched, 495 00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:15.440 his right hand man behind the scenes, and John and Kevin were like best 496 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:20.160 buddies, you know, And I just it was it came as a total 497 00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:23.759 shock to me when I heard that he was with TNA, and I'm like, 498 00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:28.599 what happened, you know, and so I you know, and I 499 00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:32.440 never known him to be a writer or anything like that because his position with 500 00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:37.640 WWE for a long time was to sit you know, he would sit out 501 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:40.200 in the crowd and talk to the fans and say, what do you think 502 00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:45.559 about these guys out there in the ring? You know whoever, let's just 503 00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:49.440 say, you know, you had two guys out there in the ring. 504 00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:52.920 John's jobs, everybody understands, was to ask the fans their opinion of each 505 00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:57.799 guy that was out there, and then he'd give a detailed report of what 506 00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:01.119 everybody said at the end of the night too, and Kevin you know that 507 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:05.960 and that that was his job for a long time, and they tried to 508 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:08.039 make sure that he was never seen on TV, like when we did Tough 509 00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:14.359 Enough. When we were doing the Tough Enough shows, they really didn't want 510 00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:19.039 him to do those because he didn't want fans to know who he was. 511 00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:23.279 Oh wow, interesting, Yeah, because he was a plant out in the 512 00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:28.480 crowd just just to get everybody's opinion, you know, on on the talent, 513 00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:30.680 you know. And then that's how a lot of times, that's how 514 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:35.119 they would decide what they're gonna do, if they're gonna do some something with 515 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:39.119 somebody or whatever. But yeah, that was that was that was his job. 516 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:44.319 And they were really reluctant to let him do, you know, or 517 00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:49.039 actually be on on camera with tough enough because that that they didn't want people 518 00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:51.039 to know who it was, because then if you knew who he was, 519 00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:54.119 and it'd be you know, it'd be a celebrity instead of honestly answering exactly. 520 00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:57.640 Yeah, So you know, that was his job, and that's why 521 00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:01.039 I just hit total and it totally shocked me. And but I you know, 522 00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:06.480 I don't know what other role he took n WWE, you know, 523 00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:12.920 because I knew he worked in the production side on some things, but mostly 524 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.199 he was just out, you know, out in the crowd, just asking 525 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:16.519 people at TVs, hey, what do you think of this guy? And 526 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.079 you know this guy bit you know. And then, like I said, 527 00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:23.079 I was just in total shock when he went to TNA, And I, 528 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:27.320 you know, I had no idea he had writing capabilities, you know, 529 00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:30.039 because that that to me, that takes respectial mindset to be able to write 530 00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:37.480 write stories, you know, yeah, you know, and that well and 531 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:39.159 that's the thing. It's like, you know, a lot of people, 532 00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:46.320 a lot of people criticized the writing and stuff like that. But people have 533 00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:51.760 to understand that's not an easy job to do. It's really not. Because 534 00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:54.960 you've got you've got The way it's supposed to work is you're supposed to write 535 00:34:55.320 --> 00:35:00.559 six months ahead and work backwards worked. You know, let's just say it's 536 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:07.119 you're looking at take a target date of October, you start, you work 537 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:13.400 from October back to today. That's how you you're supposed to write a storyline, 538 00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:16.440 you know, And it's not easy. And you know, I know 539 00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:22.559 I've been critical of storylines stuff like that, and I quickly forget, Hey, 540 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:25.960 that's not an easy task, especially working prevents, you know. So 541 00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.880 but you know, because I know people are critical, you know, as 542 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:35.000 far as the storyline's going on in TNA and stuff like that. But it's 543 00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:38.480 just it's it's not an easy job. It's not. And that's that's what 544 00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:40.920 I look at a lot of times too. It's like, you know, 545 00:35:42.199 --> 00:35:45.559 cut these guys from Slack because you know, these are guys maybe that don't 546 00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:50.000 have writing experience and they're trying to get in the groove and stuff like that, 547 00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:52.159 and you know, TNA has survived for ten years, you know, 548 00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:57.519 so hope, you know, I don't want to see them fold because we 549 00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:00.800 need that competition. The boys need that competition, you know, as bad 550 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:04.599 as some of their shows can be, you know, I just I wish 551 00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:08.559 and I do hope that you know, something turns it around for them, 552 00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:12.920 you know, because now we're gonna have you know, Global Force with Jeff. 553 00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:15.760 We're gonna have you know, three companies and stuff, and that'd be 554 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:22.000 so great if all three companies can prosper, you know, wwri is that's 555 00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:24.159 you know, but the other two companies, that would that would make me 556 00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:28.920 happy to see that for the boys, because the boys are the ones who 557 00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:35.159 go out there kill themselves night after night, and they're not the ones, 558 00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:39.039 you know, it's it's almost a thankless job to them when their paychecks come 559 00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:44.519 in the mail a lot of times, you know. So you can support 560 00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:47.320 us on Patreon and get these shows with ads and plugs removed, The Weight 561 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:52.519 Killer Prossing podcast, Weight Keller Prossing post shows and the PW Torch daily cast 562 00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:57.239 throughout the week with ads and plugs removed, plus a few bonus VIP shows 563 00:36:57.519 --> 00:37:00.760 throughout the month for just four dollars and ninety nine on some month. Check 564 00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:06.360 it out patreon dot com slash PW torch v i P. That's Patreon dot 565 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:09.199 com slash PW torch vi IP and you can also upgrade to other tiers and 566 00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:19.320 receive even more benefits through Patreon. And I I really want to see both 567 00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:22.159 companies, especially T and A, do well, because in that way, 568 00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:28.119 you know everybody, everybody's happy that. I think the key is we want 569 00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:30.800 to see good wrestling do well. And I think what's frustrating is when you 570 00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:34.320 see some bad ideas that are repeated over and over again, and people like 571 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.079 Vince Russo and you don't have to comment on this spob if you don't want, 572 00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:43.679 but people who have a proven track record of not necessarily having good ideas 573 00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:49.559 they once had translate in modern day environments and modern current circumstances be given chances 574 00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:52.280 over and over again, and there's just some ideas that it's the time has 575 00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.400 passed and it's time for something new. The thing I give in Throuci credit 576 00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:59.079 for all the time is more often than I than I criticize them, because 577 00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:01.679 criticizing them is so we and everybody does it. And the thing I give 578 00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:07.000 him credit for is he was an impetus for change at the at the cusp 579 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:08.840 of the Attitude air on the Monday Night War in the Monday Night Wars. 580 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:13.760 He's the guy who Bill Watts, when he was working for WWE as an 581 00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:17.119 executive, brought into U and Bill was there a very short time. But 582 00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:22.000 he brought the magazine writer into the booking meetings and said, I want our 583 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.559 magazines to be currents who. We need our writer to be here so he 584 00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:27.119 knows what to publish and what notts publish, who to put on the cover, 585 00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:29.599 what not to say, what to say? And Vince Russo couldn't shut 586 00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:30.840 up. I mean, believe it or not, Vinceruzeo couldn't shut up at 587 00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:35.599 those meetings. And he's like and he completely start he started speaking out when 588 00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.199 all the yes men around Vince protecting their jobs, where Yespin' Yespin's this is 589 00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:40.639 great, this was great. That's a great idea. And they were stale. 590 00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:44.480 They were ideas that weren't working. And Russell was an impetus for change. 591 00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:45.880 He said, I have other ideas. This is ridiculous because Vince had 592 00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:49.239 nothing to loose. Well, he had something to lose his job, but 593 00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.599 he could help himself, and Vince McMahon respected that and he brought him in 594 00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:57.920 and granted Steve Austin a few weeks back, was on the show right after 595 00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:00.599 Wrestling. I fact, it's his only interview. I think he's done after 596 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:05.760 WrestleMania other than his own podcast that I know of, And he was reviewing 597 00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:07.400 Mania and somebody called an asked about Russo, and Austin said he liked me. 598 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:09.480 I had some good ideas, but he needed editing, you know, 599 00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:13.320 he needed to have somebody to throw out the bad ideas and keep the good 600 00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:16.280 ones. And I look at that, I'm like, why Vince Russo now, 601 00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:21.159 twenty years later, is the is the problem not the solution. We 602 00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:24.199 need somebody else to come in and shake things up. As Jim Ross talked 603 00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:28.599 about at length last week, by I think Bob going back to some of 604 00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:30.480 the fundamentals, and I want to get into it, but on the VIP 605 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:32.159 after show because I want to get to phone calls. But I'm marking this 606 00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:36.400 down for us to talk in the after show. Which is the babyface heel 607 00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:40.840 conundrum right now where WWE is swinging and missing when it comes to getting the 608 00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:45.719 reaction that they're looking for. Their heels are getting cheered and their baby faces 609 00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:47.440 are either not getting reactions or getting booed. And I got a few key 610 00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:50.440 points. I want to bring up some of them I wrote about in the 611 00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:52.519 newsletter this week with you, and I'm really curious your thoughts on it, 612 00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:57.960 so we'll we'll tackle that in a little bit. But next I actually want 613 00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:05.480 to Bob. Have you determine who are five winners are. I've narrowed it 614 00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:08.960 down to twenty of and what we did is ran a contest last week for 615 00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:15.239 Jim Ross favorite Jim Ross announcing moments or quotes, and people on Twitter did 616 00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:22.559 a hashtag included hashtag Sherry's Berries and put one of their favorite Jim Ross catchphrases 617 00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:25.800 or moments and I read some of them to Jim Ross last week and he 618 00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:30.760 reacted to them on the live cast. I have listed twenty of them in 619 00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:36.639 random order, and I want you to pick five numbers between one and twenty 620 00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:39.440 and they are going to be the ones who I then will name winners, 621 00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:43.559 and you can you can do fifteen to twenty or you can do one eight 622 00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:45.920 six. I'm poisoning the well here. But you can do it randomly or 623 00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:52.320 whatever. So go ahead, okay, shoot yep, so go ahead, 624 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:57.119 and you literally just give me five numbers between one and twenty. Oh okay, 625 00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:04.840 I'm sorry, my man. Seven, okay, fifteen, all right? 626 00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:14.280 Five, okay, that's three, let's go with. Let's go with 627 00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:21.880 three, all right, and nineteen all right. So these are our winners. 628 00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:23.840 I will be tweeting this also so the winners can get back to me. 629 00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:29.400 If you do not get back to me, then these this fifty dollars 630 00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:32.840 gifts crick for Sherry's Berry's which is good through for several months, will go 631 00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:39.320 to somebody else on this list. But number three, the winner is Joey 632 00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:45.440 splashwater on Twitter. So yeah, so his his one of the winners. 633 00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:52.079 And number five is Andy Tranberg, who goes by the handle at NDT tran 634 00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:59.039 twenty one. He's the second winner, and number seven is Sean Ryder who 635 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:05.079 goes by at R Y d E S. And number fifteen sliding down here 636 00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:08.639 is Big Dame DCM at Big Name d CM, you are the fourth winner. 637 00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:15.639 And number nineteen is John Bolan at JW b O l I N. 638 00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:17.280 I will be tweeting those out also, but you are the five winners. 639 00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:23.519 Congratulations of the fifty dollars gift certificates. You participated in our oh I guess 640 00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:28.239 our contest last week to name a popular Jim Ross catchphrase. We read him 641 00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:30.039 to Jim Ross on last week's show. He commented on him it was really 642 00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:32.920 fun to hear him talk about the origin of some of these phrases or remember 643 00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.199 the moments. And now hardcore Bob Holly has chosen which of you get a 644 00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:40.360 fifty dollars gift dificate to Sherry's Berry's. Don't forget. You can still sneak 645 00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:44.920 in and get that discount, say forty percent on a box of Scherries Berries. 646 00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:47.679 Go to berries dot com B E R R I E S dot com 647 00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:52.840 and click on the microphone in the upright corner and enter the code word wrestling 648 00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:58.920 and that gives you the discount our discount forty percent off box cherries. Berry's 649 00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:00.719 all right, let's go back to the full lines. Thanks for help up, 650 00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:05.079 that was really helpful. Well that's good. You know you've just ruined 651 00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:07.000 the day of fifteen other people. I know it, and I'm sitting here 652 00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:13.400 thinking these guys are gonna rip me as far they are I'm gonna get I'm 653 00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:16.840 gonna get tweets from these guys, and they're just gonna rip me to shreds. 654 00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:21.880 They won't know if they even made the top twenty, so I picked 655 00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:24.239 the top twenty. Right numbers is randomly next one. All right, well, 656 00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:27.039 let let's go back to the full line. We've got a VIP caller 657 00:43:27.079 --> 00:43:31.719 has been on whole patiently, Eric code four one two VIP member Leon from 658 00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:38.159 Pittsburgh. How's it going? Lean? Hey, how are you guys doing 659 00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:44.079 good? I'm proud to be a VIP member for over more excellent Caller of 660 00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:46.400 the Day, Color of the Day Land, Thank you, Hi. Thanks 661 00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:51.719 Uh. I'm first all. I've pyed three questions, but first I do 662 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:54.679 want to mention it to Harcoholly, you're my best friends, say wrestler, 663 00:43:54.719 --> 00:44:00.280 and my responsor, Oh, it's just Fay wrestler and needs to and he 664 00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:02.920 says halcohol and then I'm like, well why He's like wow, why else 665 00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:07.760 he's hardcore? Well tell him? I said, thank you very much. 666 00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:12.960 I appreciate that. Oh yeah, my first question. My first question is 667 00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:17.639 one of my favorite matches. I would say that I really did enjoy from 668 00:44:17.639 --> 00:44:22.480 your career place your match with Brock Lesner from the Poor Roy Rumble. I 669 00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:27.599 thought like, like the lead up to that match was like really good, 670 00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:32.840 Like you made like us banish really like into like the hype of the broken 671 00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:37.719 Egg, Like how much like you wanted your revenge and everything else. So 672 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:39.400 I just wanted to like, I don't know, like maybe a little back 673 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:45.840 on then how that match went and what do you feel about it? Well, 674 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:49.400 I was just I was you know, I was glad after being off 675 00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:52.920 for thirteen months. I was just glad to be back into a stone, 676 00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:57.000 come back into a storyline. And thank you for your question too, by 677 00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:00.719 the way, Leon, But I was just glad to come back and be 678 00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:05.440 in a storyline because so many times where I've been hurt and I've came back 679 00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:08.960 and then they had nothing for me. But and I was really glad it 680 00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:12.679 was with Broth, you know, because Brock is one of the top guys. 681 00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:15.199 So that was just it. I'd got a good rub off of him 682 00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:17.760 for that, you know, So you know, I just took it and 683 00:45:17.800 --> 00:45:22.559 ran with it, and it was fun because they wanted it to be you 684 00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:27.239 know, I got to be myself in a lot of the promos and the 685 00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:31.119 vignettes to where you know, it was almost believable that you know that we 686 00:45:31.159 --> 00:45:34.599 really were going to fight and stuff like that, and that's what made it 687 00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:38.280 fun. And I was just grateful to get to work with him, even 688 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:42.559 though you know, the match was only like eight minutes long, because and 689 00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:45.719 it was actually supposed to be like fifteen twenty minutes long, and they but 690 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:51.320 when we got to Gorilla, they cut it, you know, back down 691 00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:53.519 to like eight minutes. And I don't know what reason. They never gave 692 00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:57.760 me a reason, and they don't you know, really they didn't have to 693 00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:00.199 give me a reason. But you know, I was just glad to be 694 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:01.800 on the show because a lot of times, I don't know if you've read 695 00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:06.239 my book, Leon, but I talk about in my book that you know, 696 00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:08.599 I was just I was just happy to I was happy to be there, 697 00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:12.320 and I was you know, and if you're ever on the pay per 698 00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:15.280 views, you know that's always a good thing. And I was just always 699 00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:22.800 you know, you always want more. And I again, because I wasn't 700 00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:25.440 really involved in much throughout my career. I mean, during an attitude there 701 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:29.679 I was, but it got to that point in my career where you know, 702 00:46:30.039 --> 00:46:31.320 it kind of I was just kind of floating around. So I was 703 00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:36.239 very very happy to be in something with Brock like that, and then when 704 00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:37.679 it ended, I was just just kind of sucked it. You know, 705 00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:42.519 we didn't continue it or whatever, but you know it was it was good 706 00:46:42.519 --> 00:46:45.079 for me and I really enjoyed it. So and Bob you wrote a lot 707 00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:49.320 about it in your book too. And so if Leon's friend who is we 708 00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:52.599 should ask Leon this before he asked the next question, Leon, has your 709 00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:59.679 best friend read Bob Holly's book? I don't believe he bough I'm not even 710 00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:01.440 sure he knows about about that. Well, he'll be excited to know the 711 00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:05.599 hardcore truth is out there. Yeah, you can tell him about it, 712 00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:09.760 because hey, Leon, I talk about I talk about everything, and I 713 00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:15.440 don't sugarcoat anything. It's all about my personal feelings, how I feel about 714 00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:17.559 a lot of things, you know. And it's not one of these books 715 00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:22.719 where I just people are shreds. It's not one of those. It's a 716 00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:27.000 really good read. And you know, I recommend it to you. If 717 00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:30.559 I'm his favorite, recommend it to him. He should get it and he 718 00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:37.840 can get it at Amazon dot Com. In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into 719 00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:43.719 the developmental system and ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch Vip 720 00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:49.079 podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly look at this page 721 00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:53.679 in NXT's early history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks 722 00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:59.039 NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track NXT's 723 00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:02.719 rising talents and why they did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch Vip 724 00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:12.039 members. Oh, Leah, what's your what's your second question? Out of 725 00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:15.320 pree? All right, that's my second question is I guess it'll be uh 726 00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:21.039 to both of you guys. Me living in Pittsburgh, I got a chance 727 00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:24.280 to like run into h kard Angle at where I work at a hospital last 728 00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:29.599 year and I asked him a few questions and from what he told me was 729 00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:35.159 he is gonna head back to the d dB and hopefully be out one of 730 00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:40.440 these to WrestleManias. So my question is when do you think Kardanngle will actually 731 00:48:40.599 --> 00:48:44.800 be back in the dB. Do you think it'll be by invest Man thirty 732 00:48:44.840 --> 00:48:47.159 one? And the second part is uh, I think kard Angle is one 733 00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:52.880 of the stay of the few wrestlers from like the past that like I never 734 00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:57.440 really had like a really in depth like DVD documentary, like he had the 735 00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:00.840 Tardanngle to True via Chest which was selyk f. But it'd be nice to 736 00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:06.000 actually have like a tree disc or two disc blu Ray actually gets this real 737 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:09.280 life, long depth story of his career and like in depth matches. So 738 00:49:09.639 --> 00:49:12.920 what do you guys think about best? Well, thanks, I appreciate the 739 00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:15.400 call. Yeah, I'll stay first. Because he threw the angle thing at 740 00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:17.800 me a little bit, I will say, I'm surprised, Bob, And 741 00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:22.400 you don't have to take this angle if you don't want or endorse what I'm 742 00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:23.239 about to say. But what I heard from a lot of people in Kurt 743 00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:27.920 Angle jumped to TNA. And this was people in WWE who they were kind 744 00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:30.599 of protective of Kurt when when he was in the company, but as soon 745 00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:34.519 as he left. It was funny everybody said when Kurt was talking about, 746 00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:36.559 oh, we're going to get the ratings up to two point zero within three 747 00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:37.719 months, and my mouth guards are going to be the biggest thing, and 748 00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:42.599 they're like, oh God, when Kurt doesn't have pr people keeping him keeping 749 00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:46.119 a lid on what he says. He is going to say everything and anything, 750 00:49:46.280 --> 00:49:50.599 and your people are just going to learn after a while. Kurt likes 751 00:49:50.639 --> 00:49:53.719 to talk, and a lot of things that Kurt says don't always turn out 752 00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:59.400 to be true. And I think time has has proven that to be correct. 753 00:49:59.559 --> 00:50:00.719 And I say that only has a cautionary tale because when we get an 754 00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:04.760 anecdote about Kurt talking, you know, to somebody at a hospital about you 755 00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:07.440 know, wanting to go back to ww are planning to you know, sure, 756 00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:10.079 I'm sure, Bob, that that's something he thinks is something that will 757 00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:14.760 happen someday. I think it will too. But let's keep in mind Kurt 758 00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:17.440 said a lot of things over the years, and a lot of them get 759 00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:21.800 discredited pretty quickly because Kurt just kind of likes to talk. He's kind of 760 00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:24.119 likes to hype things up and be a promoter. But he's just not a 761 00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:28.639 source that I trust when I hear him say something where I go, WHOA, 762 00:50:28.679 --> 00:50:30.880 there's news. Kurt said that, because I learned pretty quickly once he's 763 00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:35.559 out at WWE that he says a lot and it doesn't always so anyway, 764 00:50:35.559 --> 00:50:37.719 that's that's my two cents. You your thought. I have to you know 765 00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:42.199 what, I agree with you, I really do, yeah, you know, 766 00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:46.000 and I do Wade because you know, look back when he said he 767 00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:51.159 that he he went to Dana White and was gonna fight in the UFC and 768 00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:54.519 he did the physical exam and passed the physical and all that, and and 769 00:50:54.639 --> 00:50:59.440 Dana came back and said that that never happened. He says, never happened, 770 00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:01.440 you know. And I know why Kurt does that. I don't know 771 00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:05.880 if he's just trying to you know, I love Kurt to death, don't 772 00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:08.159 get me wrong, But I don't know why people talk just to hear themselves. 773 00:51:08.239 --> 00:51:14.000 I really don't get that. You know, they they do it. 774 00:51:14.119 --> 00:51:17.239 They give you a lot of false hope, basically, a lot of information 775 00:51:17.320 --> 00:51:22.559 that's you know, it's just it's really hard to question why he says the 776 00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:28.760 things that he says. But you know, he has said some a lot, 777 00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:31.880 he has spoke out and he has you know. So it's the thing 778 00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:37.440 is, it's hard to say if WW would even have him back, you 779 00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:42.800 know. That's the thing. You know, has bag Ashn's record, Bob, 780 00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:45.519 you know, the the oh I know, you know, the getting 781 00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:50.960 pulled over in his car and being arrested and and all the neck injuries and 782 00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:54.519 all the pain pill issues, and he's just he's it's it's difficult from a 783 00:51:54.559 --> 00:52:00.880 public relations standpoint for WWE to balance Kurt Angle, who and I'll just say 784 00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:05.480 it has a lot of the history that a lot of guys who have died 785 00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:07.840 have and a lot of people who have who are openly speaking about how they're 786 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:12.880 lucky to be alive have in terms of having and you spoke about it, 787 00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:15.559 it's really tough when you've got neck injuries and your body's beat up, and 788 00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:20.280 Kourag's body is beat up to keep doing what you're doing to this forty ish 789 00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:23.639 age that he's done it to. It's difficult, and he's you know, 790 00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:28.039 it's you know, it's it's pretty well known and on record that he's had 791 00:52:28.039 --> 00:52:31.199 issues with that. And WWB doesn't want an Olympic gold medalist going to rehab 792 00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:36.599 or worse on their clock. So that's going to be something that could stop 793 00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:39.440 Angle from going back there. Is WWE just weighing the risks versus a reward. 794 00:52:39.800 --> 00:52:42.719 I think he'll end up back there, but I think it's going to 795 00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:45.800 be a couple of years after he leaves TNA, and you think he's gonna 796 00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:49.599 have to stay kind of quiet and stay out of trouble, and then they're 797 00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:52.960 going to feel him out first and make sure things are good, and then 798 00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:55.360 they'll kind of do it tentatively. I do agree Bob though, that I'd 799 00:52:55.400 --> 00:52:59.519 like to see a good a good documentary on him, and I would hope 800 00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:04.880 that we could get at uh some more just introspective truth out of angle instead 801 00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:07.199 of just tons of talking from Kurt on something like that, to really look 802 00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:09.960 back at the ups and downs he's had. Yeah, because he has a 803 00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:14.079 great story. There's a great story to be told his life, you know. 804 00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:17.519 I mean, how how many people win Olympic gold medal in wrestling? 805 00:53:17.559 --> 00:53:22.000 You know? Only a select few, you know, And that's he's got 806 00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:23.519 a great story, he really does. And you know, like I said, 807 00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:28.719 I love Kurt to death, but I agree on every point you made, 808 00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:32.239 Wade. And another thing too, is he's gonna have to pass a 809 00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:36.760 physical getting into WWE. Also again he's gonna have to go through that. 810 00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:42.679 And and I sit there and when I watch him, I sometimes wonder, 811 00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:46.880 how does he do it? Because number one, I haven't been wrestling full 812 00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:52.920 time since nine and I know how my body feels every single day now when 813 00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:58.159 I get up out of bed, and and I don't wrestle anymore. I 814 00:53:58.199 --> 00:54:02.239 wrestle maybe what five five times a year maybe at the most. And it's 815 00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:05.480 tough for me to get out of bed in the morning. I mean, 816 00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:07.639 I still get up early, and I still work out. I work out, 817 00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:12.159 you know, it takes me a while to get going, but I 818 00:54:12.199 --> 00:54:15.960 still work out like as hard as I ever have. And but I just 819 00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:19.239 when I look at him wrestling every you know, every night like that, 820 00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:22.239 or like he the schedule that he keeps now, I don't know how he 821 00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:24.519 does it. I really don't, because I know he's beat up just as 822 00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:29.960 bad as I am, yeah, if not more, because he's still wrestling. 823 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:35.159 So I just wonder what, you know, there's got to come a 824 00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:37.320 point where he needs to, you know, take he needs to back off 825 00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:40.360 a little bit here, you know, because he's going to be one of 826 00:54:40.360 --> 00:54:44.239 those guys. And I hope he doesn't because, like I said, I 827 00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:46.199 love Kurt to death, and you know, and I'm just saying this because 828 00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:50.159 this is how I feel. I hope He's not going to be one of 829 00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:53.880 those guys where when he's, you know, sixty years old and he's in 830 00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:59.320 a walker or in a wheelchair, and I hope that doesn't happen to him, 831 00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:01.679 because so many guys you see him later on in life and they can't 832 00:55:01.719 --> 00:55:05.519 walk and it's like wow, you know, and I don't want to see 833 00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:08.199 him like that. Yeah, there's people who have been on record, prominent 834 00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:12.599 names who have said he shouldn't be wrestling anymore. And it's it's wrong to 835 00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:16.239 pay Kurt to wrestle at this stage because you're enabling somebody who physically should not 836 00:55:16.280 --> 00:55:20.920 be doing what he's doing out there. I do not enjoy seeing Kurt Angle 837 00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:23.599 do top rope suplexus. I don't enjoy see Kurd Angle put himself out there 838 00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:27.800 physically. For all the reasons you talk about, Bob, he's doing damage 839 00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:32.440 to himself and you know with his history that there's a good chance. I 840 00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:37.760 don't mean to catch you off the way. Another thing too, another I 841 00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:42.039 should have mentioned this too, But another point is the reason a lot of 842 00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:46.480 these guys keep going is because they cannot step away from the limelight they feed 843 00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:51.440 off of. That's that's what keeps them going. You know, they don't 844 00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:53.400 know, they don't know how to turn it off. It is. Steve 845 00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:57.079 Austin talked about that with me about how it took him. I think he 846 00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:00.480 said three or four years to get over the end of his wrestling career because 847 00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:02.280 it's what he wanted to do for as long as he could remember, and 848 00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:07.679 what he had been doing since he was out of college. And and really, 849 00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:09.480 you know, I mean, it's to have to shift gears into something 850 00:56:09.480 --> 00:56:12.719 else. You know, Kevin Garnett's facing that, you know, not having 851 00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:14.599 a I don't know how he did last night, but I know the game 852 00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:16.039 before that, he didn't even I don't think he scored. And he was 853 00:56:16.039 --> 00:56:19.880 in Minnesota Timberwolf, and I saw him in his prime and he had a 854 00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:22.639 great run. I think it was in the Old three playoffs with with Spreewell 855 00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:24.920 and Cassel, and had Cassell that got injured, the Wolves would have made 856 00:56:24.920 --> 00:56:28.360 it to the finals and beat the Lakers. I think most people agree on 857 00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:31.360 that and want a championship with the Celtics. But he's put in a law 858 00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:36.440 a lot of years since age eighteen when he entered the league full NBA schedule. 859 00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:38.280 Ever since then very few injuries until he you know, until the last 860 00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:45.519 few years he's facing that. It doesn't stop for anybody, and that transition 861 00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:49.800 is difficult. Everybody talks about that who have been an athlete, and I 862 00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:52.000 mean even for you, you know, it's it's it had for as long 863 00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.800 as you were with WWS. It had to be an adjustment to and some 864 00:56:54.840 --> 00:56:58.679 people welcome it. They're just ready for a change of pace, but other 865 00:56:58.679 --> 00:57:01.280 people have a tough time adjusting out For you, you know what. To 866 00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:06.400 be perfectly honest, it was not that bad for me. And I'll tell 867 00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:09.599 you why, because I knew once I stepped beyond that curtain. When I 868 00:57:09.639 --> 00:57:14.920 went after I stepped off stage, I went back to being Bob Howard. 869 00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:19.719 I wasn't hardcore Holly anymore, you know. And I know people are gonna 870 00:57:19.719 --> 00:57:23.280 have a hard time believing this, but I've never thought my entire career that 871 00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:28.599 I was a big deal. I've never thought that. I've always remained pretty 872 00:57:28.679 --> 00:57:31.480 humble to where, you know, this is just this is my job, 873 00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:37.239 and this is what I got to do to survive. And I've always separated 874 00:57:37.679 --> 00:57:42.519 who hardcore Holly and Bob Howard was, you know, and that's a lot 875 00:57:42.519 --> 00:57:46.199 of people have a hard time separating themselves from their character, like kurt Is 876 00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:52.840 Kurt Angle, you know, there's but your character is turned up, the 877 00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:54.559 volumes turned way up on that character, and a lot of times a lot 878 00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:58.840 of people have a hard time turning that volume back down, you know, 879 00:57:59.159 --> 00:58:02.920 and they need that reassert insurance from the fans and stuff like that, and 880 00:58:02.920 --> 00:58:07.039 they can't live without it. You know. For me, I was able 881 00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:09.760 to step away from it because I've never in my mind thought I was a 882 00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:14.119 big deal. Not saying these guys think that they're a big deal. I'm 883 00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:19.239 not saying that whatsoever. But in order for me, it was for me 884 00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:22.159 that I never thought I was a big deal. And I think that's helped 885 00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:27.400 me because when I walked away. Yeah, it did work on me a 886 00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:30.039 little bit because I was so used to being gone all the time and traveling 887 00:58:30.119 --> 00:58:32.320 this and that. Then all of a sudden, life just came to a 888 00:58:32.440 --> 00:58:37.039 screeching halt. I had to find something to do. Yeah it, you 889 00:58:37.079 --> 00:58:42.480 know, to me, it was easy because my hobby is working. My 890 00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:45.719 hobbies are working on cars, dirt bikes, you know, being outdoors, 891 00:58:45.719 --> 00:58:47.199 being in the woods, living in the woods, and stuff like that, 892 00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:52.239 you know, And so that that was my outlet. And a lot of 893 00:58:52.280 --> 00:58:58.559 times these other guys, they don't have anything to fall back on, they 894 00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:01.000 don't have another trade. I could go if I wanted to go back to 895 00:59:01.039 --> 00:59:05.480 work. I could get a job tomorrow morning if I wanted to, because 896 00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:08.039 I'm a welder, a certified welder by trade, So it's easy for me 897 00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:13.280 to get another job. A lot of people in wrestling, that's all they 898 00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:16.719 know, so they feel like that's all they have. And if they were 899 00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:21.559 to quit, you know, they I don't think they would know what to 900 00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:24.119 do. I don't, you know. And that's just my opinion. I 901 00:59:24.119 --> 00:59:29.559 mean a lot of guys have retired and been fine, of course, you 902 00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:32.559 know, but then there's those few that keep hanging on and hanging on and 903 00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:36.280 it's like, like you said, they shouldn't be in there, and it's 904 00:59:36.280 --> 00:59:38.119 like, you know, find something else. He can find something else to 905 00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:42.239 do behind the camera. Bet Like I said, a lot of guys can't. 906 00:59:42.280 --> 00:59:45.440 They have to be in the spotlight for whatever reason. And I don't 907 00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:47.639 know what that reason is, you know. So and it was easy for 908 00:59:47.639 --> 00:59:52.039 me to step away because, like I said, I always separated who Bob 909 00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:57.320 Howard was and who Hardcore Holly was. I always separated that, you know, 910 00:59:57.320 --> 01:00:00.119 and I think that made it easy for me joining us. Hardcore Bob 911 01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:07.199 Holly is the guest on today's pwtorchlbcast. You can find this show at pwtorch 912 01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:14.719 dot com. Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or AW Dynamite in particular, 913 01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:16.159 send us an email if you've got thoughts on the show, or a 914 01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:21.760 topic you want us to address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at 915 01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:27.599 pwtorch dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's anything else 916 01:00:27.639 --> 01:00:30.639 going on in pro wrestling that you want us to address on our main podcast 917 01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:36.239 during our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. 918 01:00:36.280 --> 01:00:38.320 We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think of what we're 919 01:00:38.360 --> 01:00:42.840 saying, and let us know what you want us to talk about and ask 920 01:00:42.920 --> 01:00:50.840 us specific questions. Wadkeller Podcast at pw toorch dot com. Let's get a 921 01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:52.400 couple more full calls in before we move to the VIP after show. We'll 922 01:00:52.400 --> 01:00:57.599 see how many we can get in here and we'll begin in Minnesota. Go 923 01:00:57.800 --> 01:01:00.800 wild. This is Ericode three two or three two zero. Please state your 924 01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:06.800 name in the city or calling from. I am Carl from lack of Minnesota 925 01:01:06.840 --> 01:01:08.559 and I have VIP too. I just forgot the email today. Yeah, 926 01:01:08.559 --> 01:01:10.920 I just noticed that. I felt bad because we missed you on Tuesday, 927 01:01:12.079 --> 01:01:14.519 and I know you're on OLD for a while, and so I saw that. 928 01:01:14.599 --> 01:01:15.320 I thought, you know what, I think that's Carl. So I'm 929 01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:19.079 glad we went to you and I'm glad you hung on. Hey Carl, 930 01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:22.400 how are you today? Good? How about you? I'm doing well? 931 01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:27.519 Thank you, Thank you for calling in. Yeah, I had to call. 932 01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:29.679 I had a couple question a couple of good questions for you. I 933 01:01:29.719 --> 01:01:36.480 think we'll beside that. For some reason, I was watching an obscure pay 934 01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:40.079 per view on WW network. I was watching the Dismember too, Dismember something 935 01:01:40.159 --> 01:01:45.199 like that, the ECW Elimination Chamber match, and I was if you could 936 01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:47.559 uh kind of talk about that. I know it's kind of maybe a little 937 01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:51.280 touchy with what happened to Sabu. I don't know what happened, but I 938 01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:53.400 was wonder if you could speak on that at all. Yeah, you know, 939 01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:58.159 I don't know the exact details of what happened with him. I know 940 01:01:58.559 --> 01:02:01.960 when I got to the building, I wasn't supposed to be in, you 941 01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:06.679 know. On my way to the building, you know, I thought, 942 01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:08.119 well, I'm just going there just to be there as all, you know, 943 01:02:08.239 --> 01:02:12.840 like a lot of times I am. But I had no idea that 944 01:02:12.960 --> 01:02:16.440 Saboo got pulled from the show and they were going to put me in, 945 01:02:16.519 --> 01:02:21.079 which I'm very glad they did, you know, because I'll I'll take in 946 01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:24.119 a second. But I hated it for him. But on the other hand, 947 01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:29.039 I was happy for me, and uh, you know, I didn't 948 01:02:29.079 --> 01:02:31.199 know what I was getting into with one of those things until I got in 949 01:02:31.239 --> 01:02:37.159 there and realized that. You know, that's probably one of the roughest matches 950 01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:43.239 that I've been involved in, just simply because the it's all, I mean, 951 01:02:43.280 --> 01:02:46.119 it's completely steel. There's nothing soft about it except for the ring, 952 01:02:46.559 --> 01:02:50.400 and most of the lot of the bumps took place, you know, on 953 01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:52.519 the on the grating of the steel, you know, of the of the 954 01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:58.599 whole dome thing or whatever it's called. But yeah, that that was pretty 955 01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:00.400 rough. But I was glad to be in it, you know, I 956 01:03:00.440 --> 01:03:04.119 was thankful to be in it. As far as Sabu, I don't know 957 01:03:04.159 --> 01:03:07.440 the details of what happened or anything else like that because a lot of times 958 01:03:07.480 --> 01:03:09.760 they keep that, you know, under wraps, and that's just between Saboo 959 01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:14.840 and the company. And I mean a lot of you know, rumors come 960 01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:19.800 out where they speculate something has came up, and but I can't you know, 961 01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:22.800 I don't know for a fact, so I can't comment on that. 962 01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:25.920 I can point to Carl as a VIP member to the Torture news letter that 963 01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:29.880 corresponds to the date of that show, and you can read what we wrote 964 01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:32.079 at the time about that Sabo controversy. We certainly had a lot of information 965 01:03:32.199 --> 01:03:35.800 on that, so as a VIP member, you can see what we had 966 01:03:35.800 --> 01:03:38.159 to say if you haven't already by going to the archives. I had one 967 01:03:38.199 --> 01:03:43.800 more question, Yeah, Carl, Yeah, you worked with bubbaat Dudley, 968 01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:46.280 if I remember writing a lot, and I was wondering if I know Wade 969 01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:50.400 reports that WW doesn't want much to do with T and A guys, but 970 01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:53.159 do you think he would have a maybe a home back in WWE, because 971 01:03:53.199 --> 01:03:58.679 he's really come a long way since he's been with ww oh my gosh, 972 01:03:58.760 --> 01:04:01.880 Yes, I think you know what. I think he would make Uh he 973 01:04:01.880 --> 01:04:05.119 would fit right in with the top guys, I really do, you know. 974 01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:09.280 And I love Bubba to death. Me and him have got a really 975 01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:14.519 good relationship. And I broke his nose on purpose, well kind of you 976 01:04:14.559 --> 01:04:17.320 know, when we we were rolling around in the back in the trainer's room 977 01:04:17.320 --> 01:04:19.639 and he was one of the new guys there, and I jumped on his 978 01:04:19.760 --> 01:04:24.599 back and kind of give him across face because you know, we were just 979 01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:28.760 playing around and stuff like that. But uh, accidentally broke his nose and 980 01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:32.280 h he since to pay me. He's he has yet to pay me back 981 01:04:32.320 --> 01:04:35.639 and I'm still waiting on it. But anyway, no answer to answer to 982 01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:39.400 your question. I think he would do great because let me tell you something. 983 01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:43.239 He has some of the most entertaining promos. I love listening to the 984 01:04:43.320 --> 01:04:47.280 guy. I mean, he he's promos I've heard the last five years, 985 01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:49.360 Bob. I mean, I hate to go back further than that because it's 986 01:04:49.360 --> 01:04:53.480 whole new terrac you know, it's too big to judge, But really the 987 01:04:53.559 --> 01:04:57.960 last few years he has been one of the great heel promos. He knows 988 01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:00.559 how to study, heal promo he could do without his getting in the face 989 01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:03.800 of fans, you know, rings like that. I don't think he don't 990 01:05:03.800 --> 01:05:05.920 wanted to do that. Yeah, oh yeah, I'm glad you say that 991 01:05:05.960 --> 01:05:09.400 too. Yeah. I don't like that. He doesn't need to do that 992 01:05:09.480 --> 01:05:12.639 because his promos are so good. He tells a great story. And see, 993 01:05:12.679 --> 01:05:15.960 let me tell you something about the promos, you know, And that's 994 01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:17.840 something like I've talked about, you know, you and I have talked about 995 01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:24.199 it way that that's something I've never really been good at. And the thing 996 01:05:24.199 --> 01:05:29.119 with promos is some people have it and some people don't. Some people have 997 01:05:29.239 --> 01:05:33.480 to work on it to get better. Bubba was one of those guys that 998 01:05:33.920 --> 01:05:38.000 got the opportunity to work on it. He got better and better. Now 999 01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:40.280 to me, he's one of the best out there as far as cutting a 1000 01:05:40.280 --> 01:05:45.199 promo by far anybody. I mean, I think he can hang with some 1001 01:05:45.239 --> 01:05:47.400 of the best. I really really do. And he's a good actor. 1002 01:05:47.559 --> 01:05:51.039 Not everybody's a good actor in wrestling, And that's another thing. There's good 1003 01:05:51.079 --> 01:05:55.960 promos and then there's good actors who are also good promos. And Bully is 1004 01:05:56.000 --> 01:05:59.880 both. Bubba's both. Yes, the Brook Hogan storyline. I was can 1005 01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:03.920 evinced that that he was a good guy when I was watching that, Like, 1006 01:06:04.159 --> 01:06:05.960 yes, me, I'm watching and I see it, you know, 1007 01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:09.599 I see it for what it is. I know it's a storyline, but 1008 01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:12.079 you know, the way he talked about Brooke Hogan, I was like, 1009 01:06:12.559 --> 01:06:15.559 man, I you know, if I had a daughter and she wanted to 1010 01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:19.440 marry that guy, I'd be just absolutely And then he totally convinced me he 1011 01:06:19.519 --> 01:06:23.440 was just the biggest jerk in the world when he turned heel. He is 1012 01:06:23.639 --> 01:06:27.599 so believable and convincing in whatever role you put him in. He's not You 1013 01:06:27.599 --> 01:06:30.880 can't say that about everybody's real versatile in that way. Oh, I bought 1014 01:06:30.920 --> 01:06:32.679 into that whole thing with Brooke Hogan. I bought into it. You know. 1015 01:06:32.840 --> 01:06:34.880 Here you know and here you know, I'm one of the guys. 1016 01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:39.599 I know what goes on. You know, I know that the deal it's 1017 01:06:39.639 --> 01:06:44.119 a storyline, but it had me so hooked. I was almost to the 1018 01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:47.400 point of believing it. That's how good it was. I'm curiously you know, 1019 01:06:47.440 --> 01:06:50.000 And that's what you want. You want people to you know, because 1020 01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:54.400 the thing is, if you can make the boys believe something, then you've 1021 01:06:54.400 --> 01:06:58.599 made the fans believe something. Yeah, And and and that's a lot of 1022 01:06:58.639 --> 01:07:03.360 times when the boys cut a promo, you know, it's either you know, 1023 01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:09.079 you want to do the best job you can, obviously, and and 1024 01:07:09.559 --> 01:07:13.079 but the thing with the promos is, you know, like me, when 1025 01:07:13.119 --> 01:07:15.880 I was doing them, when I got to do them, start getting to 1026 01:07:15.880 --> 01:07:18.119 do them. A lot is with when I was with Crash, and they 1027 01:07:18.119 --> 01:07:21.320 gave me little kid bits at a time, which that's that's all I wanted, 1028 01:07:21.400 --> 01:07:26.239 because I wanted to get comfortable on the on the microphone, you know. 1029 01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:29.760 And and again that's something you either have it or you don't, or 1030 01:07:29.840 --> 01:07:31.960 you have to work on it to get better. And I've and I felt 1031 01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:35.599 like my promos were getting better as time went on, as time went on, 1032 01:07:36.280 --> 01:07:41.119 and and I really enjoyed doing them. And that's another thing. Bubba 1033 01:07:41.239 --> 01:07:44.559 enjoys doing them. When you enjoy doing them, boy, you can you 1034 01:07:44.599 --> 01:07:48.119 can just go on forever, you know. And that's another thing is you 1035 01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:51.760 have fun with them too. And that's what Bubba does. He has fun 1036 01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:56.880 with him, and you know, and then I started having fun with him, 1037 01:07:56.920 --> 01:08:00.199 and then I stopped doing them, you know, they stopped having do 1038 01:08:00.360 --> 01:08:04.079 him for whatever reason, because I wasn't in storylines anymore. But my point 1039 01:08:04.119 --> 01:08:08.440 being is the more you do them, the better you get. Bubba got 1040 01:08:08.440 --> 01:08:12.199 that opportunity to do him week after week after week, and now he is 1041 01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:16.720 one of the best. And and and I can say that you know that 1042 01:08:16.800 --> 01:08:20.279 he is truly one of the best. And I really believe that. And 1043 01:08:20.319 --> 01:08:23.920 I don't think he burned any bridges in WWWE did he, Bob, Do 1044 01:08:23.960 --> 01:08:27.840 you know about any he didn't? He didn't. Yeah, And I think 1045 01:08:27.880 --> 01:08:30.840 he would be a great addition to Monday Night Raw. I really really do. 1046 01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:33.840 I really do. I think he'd be interesting. I don't know how 1047 01:08:33.840 --> 01:08:36.600 he is producing matches about match psychology, and I don't know how he is 1048 01:08:36.640 --> 01:08:41.479 about booking. But what I'd like to see him do is bring and like 1049 01:08:41.520 --> 01:08:44.399 you say, some people have it and some don't. But if somebody has 1050 01:08:44.439 --> 01:08:47.039 it in them, I wonder if Bully Ray Bubba's not somebody who after his 1051 01:08:47.079 --> 01:08:50.640 wrestling days are over and he's he's forty two, he's he's he and I 1052 01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:56.199 are close to the same age. I think he would have a future being 1053 01:08:56.239 --> 01:08:59.119 a guy who could work with somebody who has it in him but needs to 1054 01:08:59.159 --> 01:09:03.000 get that next level of confidence. And I think what I'm not sure of, 1055 01:09:03.359 --> 01:09:05.760 and this would just be something you'd have to find out, is is 1056 01:09:05.800 --> 01:09:10.279 he somebody who can look at somebody, listen to a kind of promo and 1057 01:09:10.399 --> 01:09:14.359 figure out what it is that's missing that they have in them and bring it 1058 01:09:14.399 --> 01:09:15.560 out. Because some people are just good at what they do, but they 1059 01:09:15.560 --> 01:09:19.520 can't help others get there themselves. But he's somebody who's been He was Paul 1060 01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:24.560 Hayman's right hand man, and he's c W He's active behind the scenes as 1061 01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:27.600 a producer in TNA. I don't know if that's good or bad as far 1062 01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:30.800 as his resume goes with some of the overbooking, overbooked finishes that they do. 1063 01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:33.119 But I wonder if that wouldn't be something for him to try in WWE 1064 01:09:33.159 --> 01:09:39.840 long term. You know what, I think he can pick a part of 1065 01:09:39.880 --> 01:09:44.960 promo to help somebody. I really do, because he's he's I've seen him 1066 01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:47.600 help people before, and he's really good at helping people. He's not selfish 1067 01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:51.159 either. When it comes to putting a match together, he is. He 1068 01:09:51.319 --> 01:09:55.640 is one of the most selfless people you'd ever get in the ring with. 1069 01:09:56.039 --> 01:10:01.279 I know what's that Oh going no go ahead, jumped in Oh's and you 1070 01:10:01.319 --> 01:10:04.720 know, and I've worked with him several times and he he is the kind 1071 01:10:04.760 --> 01:10:08.800 of guy that he works for the match. He doesn't work for him, 1072 01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:12.760 He works for the match. He knows how to get himself over, and 1073 01:10:12.800 --> 01:10:15.720 he knows how to get the guy he's working with over. And that's what 1074 01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:18.119 makes him so good. You know. He to me right now, he's 1075 01:10:18.119 --> 01:10:21.920 got the total package of what it takes to be a number one guys. 1076 01:10:23.119 --> 01:10:27.359 I really do. And I think I think he needs. I think it 1077 01:10:27.399 --> 01:10:30.720 would be it would be beneficial to him to be in WWE again, I 1078 01:10:30.800 --> 01:10:33.760 really do. I would like to see him get one good run in WWE. 1079 01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:38.000 I love that line he works for the match. That is that is 1080 01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:41.319 That is such a good line. And there's so many, so many wrestlers, 1081 01:10:41.359 --> 01:10:45.840 young guys and veterans who would benefit from probably putting a lot of thought 1082 01:10:45.880 --> 01:10:48.800 into the value in working for the match instead of working for yourself. And 1083 01:10:48.880 --> 01:10:53.000 how a lot of guys, a lot of guys don't do that. They 1084 01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:57.039 think it's all about them. How what is a percentage breakdown of guys that 1085 01:10:57.079 --> 01:10:59.520 you work with or know about? I mean, do you think it's like 1086 01:10:59.560 --> 01:11:01.399 one third work for the match, one third work for themselves, and one 1087 01:11:01.439 --> 01:11:05.920 third don't work for the match with himself. Honestly, I couldn't tell you. 1088 01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:11.119 I couldn't tell you I've been you know, Chris Jericho, bless his 1089 01:11:11.159 --> 01:11:14.960 heart, he will like he is. He is one of the masters of 1090 01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:19.359 putting together a match. And I love going over a match with him because 1091 01:11:20.039 --> 01:11:24.960 you can sit he sits there and he articulates and you watch, just watch 1092 01:11:25.039 --> 01:11:30.439 him. He walks and talks and he's using his hands, thinking and he 1093 01:11:30.560 --> 01:11:33.640 just comes up with some good stuff and you know he's he works for the 1094 01:11:33.640 --> 01:11:36.800 match, But then he works for himself too in a sense, and you 1095 01:11:36.920 --> 01:11:40.600 have to stop the guy and say, Chris, wait a second, hold 1096 01:11:40.680 --> 01:11:44.319 on what am I doing? You know? Because everything he's going over it's 1097 01:11:44.399 --> 01:11:49.039 it's for for Chris. But and that's funny because I don't think he does 1098 01:11:49.039 --> 01:11:55.319 it on purpose. He just caught up in the moment of creating a great 1099 01:11:55.359 --> 01:11:59.640 story. But you know, I've I've had to stop him couple of times, 1100 01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:01.000 like Chris, well, wait a second, now, when do I 1101 01:12:01.039 --> 01:12:04.000 come into this equation? And He'll be like, oh, wait a minute, 1102 01:12:04.199 --> 01:12:05.880 Yeah, you're right, you know, and we'll just kind of start 1103 01:12:05.960 --> 01:12:11.520 laughing about it. But you know, Chris is really good about, you 1104 01:12:11.520 --> 01:12:14.960 know, getting caught up in the moment. And but you know, Chris 1105 01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:17.800 is one he's another guy that's for the match, who works for the match 1106 01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:23.560 and not just himself. You know, sometimes you're saying, yeah, he 1107 01:12:23.600 --> 01:12:26.000 does, he does, you know, and you have to just catch him 1108 01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:27.880 and say, well, wait, you know, put on the brakes. 1109 01:12:28.199 --> 01:12:31.000 Let's rethink this because I'm not doing anything, you know, and you know, 1110 01:12:31.079 --> 01:12:33.640 and then then he'll you know, and I don't think he does it 1111 01:12:33.680 --> 01:12:39.880 on purpose. I just think because he loves his craft that and he wants 1112 01:12:39.920 --> 01:12:43.199 it to be the best it can be. And you know, Chris is 1113 01:12:43.239 --> 01:12:47.520 really good, but I think sometimes he forgets there's another equation in this match. 1114 01:12:47.680 --> 01:12:50.880 And uh, but you know, he's you know, I'm not I'm 1115 01:12:50.880 --> 01:12:54.119 not knocking on. Don't think I'm knocking on him. I don't want people 1116 01:12:54.119 --> 01:12:56.680 think I'm knocking on. It's just funny how he does it, because you 1117 01:12:56.720 --> 01:12:59.239 know, Chris is one of the guys that's for the match. It's just 1118 01:12:59.279 --> 01:13:02.039 funny how when I'd go over matches with him and stuff and just watching him 1119 01:13:02.039 --> 01:13:05.840 because I would get caught up in the moment watching how how creative and how 1120 01:13:06.159 --> 01:13:11.279 how you know art? You know, it's an art to him, and 1121 01:13:11.319 --> 01:13:14.399 it's art to every It should be an art to everybody that that does it. 1122 01:13:14.560 --> 01:13:20.560 But it's just it's it's something to watch Chris Jericho go, you know, 1123 01:13:21.000 --> 01:13:26.039 in his mind, watch how he articulates everything. It's fascinating to me. 1124 01:13:26.439 --> 01:13:29.119 And that's why I brought it up to as another reae because it's really 1125 01:13:29.119 --> 01:13:32.760 fascinating because he's he's really good at what he does. But you know, 1126 01:13:32.880 --> 01:13:35.640 talking about you know, working for the match and everything, and I just 1127 01:13:35.640 --> 01:13:38.960 thought that was a kind of a funny story I wanted to bring up about 1128 01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:41.800 him. How you know you have to stop him and say, well wait, 1129 01:13:42.159 --> 01:13:46.960 you know, but anyway, yeah, a lot of guys some you 1130 01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:49.760 know, a lot of guys believe it or not, they don't get it, 1131 01:13:50.279 --> 01:13:54.960 you know, and you have to insert yourself because a lot of guys 1132 01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:57.439 too. That's another thing. When you're going over a match, a lot 1133 01:13:57.479 --> 01:14:01.359 of guys will just start calling everything and if you don't speak up, you're 1134 01:14:01.359 --> 01:14:04.760 gonna get left out. Yeah, you know, because a lot of guys 1135 01:14:04.800 --> 01:14:09.439 just think for themselves, and yeah, not always somebody standing there like, 1136 01:14:09.479 --> 01:14:12.520 you know, babysitting the match saying, oh, fifty to fifty or you 1137 01:14:12.520 --> 01:14:15.600 know, this has at least be sixty forty. You know, it's up 1138 01:14:15.640 --> 01:14:17.119 to the rest or sometimes to fight for their fight for their spots, and 1139 01:14:17.119 --> 01:14:19.920 fight for their time in the match to shine, right, because when the 1140 01:14:19.960 --> 01:14:23.199 agent comes to us and said, this is what we want, this is 1141 01:14:23.199 --> 01:14:25.479 what Vince wants, you guys, go put it together and let me know 1142 01:14:25.560 --> 01:14:28.520 later on what you're gonna do. So, you know, you guys get 1143 01:14:28.520 --> 01:14:32.239 together, you throw something together. Like if I'm going over, I've always 1144 01:14:32.279 --> 01:14:36.439 gave the guy more of the match. I've always done that because if I 1145 01:14:36.479 --> 01:14:41.000 don't make him, then who did I beat? And a lot of people 1146 01:14:41.039 --> 01:14:44.319 forget about that because they want to go out there and just beat the crap 1147 01:14:44.359 --> 01:14:46.000 out of somebody and beat him. It's all at the same time, and 1148 01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:49.000 it's like that doesn't do anything for you. You know, you've got to 1149 01:14:49.119 --> 01:14:54.319 make the guy before you beat him, because then you beat somebody. And 1150 01:14:54.399 --> 01:14:58.000 a lot of guys coming up they don't understand that psychology, you know. 1151 01:14:58.199 --> 01:15:00.880 They just think if you go out there and win that you're going to get 1152 01:15:00.920 --> 01:15:03.359 over, and it doesn't work like that at all. Just because you win 1153 01:15:03.479 --> 01:15:06.840 doesn't mean you're gonna get over at all. I believe that was about matches 1154 01:15:06.880 --> 01:15:11.640 on television too, and I think WWE's gotten into the business of presenting matches, 1155 01:15:11.640 --> 01:15:15.319 but I don't think they always do a good job promoting matches, hyping 1156 01:15:15.319 --> 01:15:18.960 matches ahead of time. I think when somebody wins a match or is competitive 1157 01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:23.640 and loses to somebody who's a big name, if that match got hyped ahead 1158 01:15:23.640 --> 01:15:26.520 of time as a big deal and the announcers treated it like it was there 1159 01:15:26.600 --> 01:15:29.520 was something at stake, and they announced it ahead of time. Like a 1160 01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:31.359 couple two mondays ago, they announced the usos are going to be defending the 1161 01:15:31.359 --> 01:15:34.039 tag titles, and they mentioned it at the start of the show, and 1162 01:15:34.079 --> 01:15:38.479 I applauded because when you say the tag team titles are going to be defended 1163 01:15:38.520 --> 01:15:41.800 and it's one of the top things you talk about, it makes the championship 1164 01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:45.920 seem important, the Tag Championship, and it makes the ustos seem like stars, 1165 01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:48.039 and it made the match feel more important than when it was just thrown 1166 01:15:48.079 --> 01:15:53.199 out there. So what you say within a match is absolutely true. But 1167 01:15:53.279 --> 01:15:56.680 I think it's if you step back too. It's up to the promoters to 1168 01:15:56.760 --> 01:16:00.560 make sure that TV shows are structured in a way that every match that happens, 1169 01:16:00.560 --> 01:16:02.319 when guys are going out there and putting their bodies on the line and 1170 01:16:02.399 --> 01:16:06.000 somebody's getting a win and somebody's doing a job for them, get the most 1171 01:16:06.039 --> 01:16:09.680 you can out of it by making that match team like a big deal. 1172 01:16:10.079 --> 01:16:14.520 Part of what undercuts that, Bob, is a lot of just jabbering about 1173 01:16:14.560 --> 01:16:18.000 things other than the match and snickering and the direction of announcing and the way 1174 01:16:18.039 --> 01:16:23.439 it is gone has been so disappointing over the last several years, but we're 1175 01:16:23.439 --> 01:16:27.800 getting more complaints about it now than ever. Bob. When you watch Rono, 1176 01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:30.079 do you kind of shake your head at the direction that they've chosen to 1177 01:16:30.119 --> 01:16:32.479 go in. And I'm not blaming the announcers. They're doing what they're what 1178 01:16:32.479 --> 01:16:40.359 they're produced to do. Right. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, 1179 01:16:40.840 --> 01:16:45.239 then join me Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. 1180 01:16:45.479 --> 01:16:47.159 Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis for Me and my 1181 01:16:47.199 --> 01:16:50.600 team and Pro Wrestling don Ned, along with other pro wrestling media members, 1182 01:16:50.920 --> 01:16:56.319 plus the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable names in the 1183 01:16:56.359 --> 01:17:00.319 pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and all your 1184 01:17:00.359 --> 01:17:04.239 favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at PW boom dot com. Once 1185 01:17:04.279 --> 01:17:13.279 again, that's pw boom dot com. Well, you know, and the 1186 01:17:13.319 --> 01:17:16.079 thing is, too announcers have the liberty to say what, you know, 1187 01:17:16.279 --> 01:17:20.720 a lot of things that they want to say too. But when they start 1188 01:17:20.760 --> 01:17:27.640 going off in another direction, the announcers the guys in the ring, they're 1189 01:17:27.680 --> 01:17:30.760 forgotten about. If the announcers don't care about the guys in the ring, 1190 01:17:31.159 --> 01:17:34.479 then the fans don't care about them. You know. Jim Ross is one 1191 01:17:34.520 --> 01:17:41.520 of the masters at making somebody look like the toughest bastards you know, in 1192 01:17:41.560 --> 01:17:45.359 the world. And he was the best at getting a guy over verbally in 1193 01:17:45.399 --> 01:17:50.359 the ring. You know, he was really good about that. But I 1194 01:17:50.399 --> 01:17:55.920 just don't like when you got two guys in the ring and you start talking 1195 01:17:55.960 --> 01:17:59.399 about somebody else. I don't like that. You should be focused on the 1196 01:17:59.399 --> 01:18:03.439 guys in the ring, saying you know, because I've always been taught if 1197 01:18:03.479 --> 01:18:05.600 you don't, if you're not talking about what's going on in the ring. 1198 01:18:05.720 --> 01:18:10.640 The fans don't care. Yeah, you know, they're you're teaching them. 1199 01:18:10.680 --> 01:18:14.960 It's not important exactly, you know. And and that's and that's bad for 1200 01:18:15.039 --> 01:18:17.680 that character, especially if they're trying if if they're trying to get these guys 1201 01:18:17.720 --> 01:18:20.800 over that that's the bad part, you know, And because it doesn't do 1202 01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:27.239 any good for anybody I had. Okay, there's been moments when when it, 1203 01:18:27.359 --> 01:18:30.079 fortunately the trend has died down a little bit. Uh, But when 1204 01:18:30.119 --> 01:18:32.960 the announcers would play into the crowd in the middle of a match, chanting 1205 01:18:33.119 --> 01:18:38.479 the names of the announcers, and the announcers would stand up and acknowledge the 1206 01:18:38.560 --> 01:18:42.640 crowd cheering them, Well, Randy Orton was bumping his ass off in the 1207 01:18:42.720 --> 01:18:45.560 ring or gold Dust? Was? I think it was Randy Orton against Goldust 1208 01:18:45.560 --> 01:18:48.439 when it happened, was I just thought, I honestly, I wish that 1209 01:18:48.479 --> 01:18:53.079 you were in the ring when that happened, because you're the guy who I 1210 01:18:53.079 --> 01:18:56.279 would have been thinking had the best chance to stop in the middle of the 1211 01:18:56.319 --> 01:19:00.279 match and walk the ring side and slap across the side of the head the 1212 01:19:00.319 --> 01:19:04.239 announcer who in the middle of your match was playing into the crowd chanting announce 1213 01:19:04.279 --> 01:19:06.800 their names instead of paying attention to what you're doing in the ring. And 1214 01:19:06.800 --> 01:19:10.960 I'm not saying you would have been unprofessional and done that, but I you 1215 01:19:11.039 --> 01:19:14.239 there would have been a chance in my heart that I thought you might have 1216 01:19:14.239 --> 01:19:15.960 done that, and I would have been telepathically rooting for you to do it, 1217 01:19:16.000 --> 01:19:19.239 to send a message. I think it's so disrespectful to guys in the 1218 01:19:19.319 --> 01:19:21.960 ring when the announcers did that, and I think somebody put a stop to 1219 01:19:23.000 --> 01:19:26.800 it. Yeah, you know, I'm surprised Randy didn't do something about it, 1220 01:19:26.840 --> 01:19:29.920 I really am. Yeah, that surprised me he didn't, because you 1221 01:19:29.920 --> 01:19:31.439 know, Randy will tell it like it is a lot of times. Oh 1222 01:19:31.520 --> 01:19:35.079 yeah, and you know that, you know, maybe he'd said something back, 1223 01:19:35.119 --> 01:19:40.119 you know, behind the curtain or whatever. But yeah, that's something 1224 01:19:40.159 --> 01:19:43.840 that I would have probably stopped right there and walked right over there and popped 1225 01:19:43.880 --> 01:19:46.640 him upside the head and say, you know, yeah, you know what. 1226 01:19:46.720 --> 01:19:48.960 I think we would have been cheering your cheering for you on that one, 1227 01:19:49.000 --> 01:19:53.159 and we would have all hoped it was during Michael Cole standing up, 1228 01:19:53.479 --> 01:19:57.640 not one of the other guys, because you know, well, it wouldn't 1229 01:19:57.680 --> 01:20:00.399 matter whoever it was. If it was JB, I'd still smacking. Good 1230 01:20:00.439 --> 01:20:03.399 for you, good for you, Yeah, believe me. All right, 1231 01:20:03.520 --> 01:20:05.359 let's I know your time for me to Bob, and I do want to 1232 01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:08.439 do a VPP after a show for paying customers. But I do have a 1233 01:20:08.520 --> 01:20:11.239 VIP member. Chris from Oklahoma just called up and I want to get him 1234 01:20:11.239 --> 01:20:14.880 in real quick with a question. So, Chris from Oklahoma, thank you 1235 01:20:14.920 --> 01:20:17.479 for calling from Ericote five at oh please confirm it you and what have you 1236 01:20:17.479 --> 01:20:21.840 got for Bob today? Yes, this is christ from Mklahoma, and thank 1237 01:20:21.880 --> 01:20:25.319 you for picking my call absolutely, thanks for calling it. Thanks for a 1238 01:20:25.399 --> 01:20:30.119 VIP membership. Yeah, how are you today, Chris? I'm doing really 1239 01:20:30.159 --> 01:20:33.920 really good. I have a question about Tess and what are your thoughts on 1240 01:20:34.039 --> 01:20:39.479 t enoughs and what they could do and what they differently than in past years 1241 01:20:39.520 --> 01:20:45.640 and stuff. Now. I think it's changed a lot. I liked, 1242 01:20:45.479 --> 01:20:49.840 you know, I liked the first concept of everybody living in a house together, 1243 01:20:50.560 --> 01:20:54.720 you know, being together twenty four to seven. I thought that whole 1244 01:20:54.800 --> 01:20:58.359 dynamic was really good for the show created a lot of you know, interest, 1245 01:20:58.359 --> 01:21:01.600 a lot of drama and stuff like that. Well, I guess they 1246 01:21:01.640 --> 01:21:05.239 did that on this last one too, didn't they wait, didn't they all 1247 01:21:05.279 --> 01:21:12.079 live together? Yeah? I didn't see the last one. Yeah, yeah, 1248 01:21:12.079 --> 01:21:15.840 that's right. Yeah, wait a minute, I did see some of 1249 01:21:15.840 --> 01:21:17.439 them. Yeah, you know, I like the way that they do it, 1250 01:21:17.840 --> 01:21:25.600 you know, it's it's I think what I would do differently is I 1251 01:21:25.600 --> 01:21:29.600 would, you know, have them all live in the house and maybe travel 1252 01:21:29.680 --> 01:21:33.680 together up and down the road doing shows here and there and seeing what it's 1253 01:21:33.880 --> 01:21:39.159 like traveling, you know, being new in the business, traveling in a 1254 01:21:39.239 --> 01:21:42.520 car. You know, you had you cram five or six people in a 1255 01:21:42.560 --> 01:21:45.439 car and drive for four hours, you know, and then you get back 1256 01:21:45.439 --> 01:21:48.479 home at two or three o'clock in the morning and then get your assup out 1257 01:21:48.520 --> 01:21:53.000 of bed and start training the next day. You know. I think that 1258 01:21:53.039 --> 01:21:57.279 would be a good concept, And that's I think that would add to the 1259 01:21:57.319 --> 01:22:00.399 show, so people could really see what what it's like, you know, 1260 01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:04.079 because today, you know, they just see everybody living in a nice house 1261 01:22:04.079 --> 01:22:08.479 and they get to train and stuff like that and see a little bit of 1262 01:22:08.520 --> 01:22:12.920 drama here and there, and it's kind of a glorified deal, you know, 1263 01:22:13.000 --> 01:22:18.399 and it's I just think that would add to the element of the interest 1264 01:22:18.560 --> 01:22:23.880 of the show is to see these guys just crammed in a small car together 1265 01:22:24.520 --> 01:22:28.399 going to a show wrestling in front of you know, ten, twenty thirty 1266 01:22:28.479 --> 01:22:30.720 people. I think that's part of the heat that the guys from Tough Enough 1267 01:22:30.760 --> 01:22:34.960 take is they just kind of get this red carpet treatment because WWE wants this 1268 01:22:35.039 --> 01:22:39.760 kind of glossy show. But I like the idea of and you'd probably have 1269 01:22:39.800 --> 01:22:42.960 to be a van with a cameraman as opposed to a car because you probably 1270 01:22:42.960 --> 01:22:45.520 want to film what's going on. But it doesn't have to be a glamorous 1271 01:22:45.560 --> 01:22:46.640 fan. It can be a beat up. It can be that van where 1272 01:22:46.680 --> 01:22:49.279 if you see it backstage, you know the windshield's going to be broken, 1273 01:22:49.279 --> 01:22:53.199 because there's always the oldest, cheapest car that gets beat up in those backstage 1274 01:22:53.239 --> 01:22:57.600 scenes, like the like the eighty six tourists on ROS this week. It 1275 01:22:57.640 --> 01:23:00.920 was probably a four tours or something. But still and and then like, 1276 01:23:01.159 --> 01:23:05.000 yeah, make them put the ring up before every indie show, make them 1277 01:23:05.119 --> 01:23:12.319 ticket down and put them all in the worst motel and you know, three 1278 01:23:12.399 --> 01:23:15.279 to a bed with night vision and you know they got it, and give 1279 01:23:15.319 --> 01:23:18.680 them a stipend of like three dollars, you know, like Steve Boston talks 1280 01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:21.880 about Tuna Fish out of the can on the road, like that's a more 1281 01:23:21.920 --> 01:23:26.199 interesting show. And yeah, that would take the feet off the guys. 1282 01:23:26.840 --> 01:23:29.920 Yeah, because that's what it's about. Yeah, you know. And then 1283 01:23:30.199 --> 01:23:33.000 you know, and like they've already somebody's already done the grocery shop and form 1284 01:23:33.039 --> 01:23:36.880 in this house and they've got everything they need have them you know, have 1285 01:23:38.039 --> 01:23:43.359 to go to the grocery store, you know, just the be more realistic, 1286 01:23:43.640 --> 01:23:45.920 like what would we have to do if we were on our own? 1287 01:23:45.439 --> 01:23:48.720 You know, I think that's how it should be. I think that would 1288 01:23:48.920 --> 01:23:53.640 I think that's that's a you know, recipes are a great show in my 1289 01:23:53.760 --> 01:23:57.439 eye. You know, maybe they can throw something out there. I would 1290 01:23:57.520 --> 01:24:00.720 love to do another tough Enough, I really would, you know. I'd 1291 01:24:00.760 --> 01:24:01.560 like to say, I don't know, oh Hunter will allow me to do 1292 01:24:01.640 --> 01:24:05.079 it, but you know I would love to you. You were great on 1293 01:24:05.119 --> 01:24:08.439 it, a Bob. I know we scheduled ninety minutes. Do you have 1294 01:24:08.439 --> 01:24:12.239 a few extra minutes for a VIP after show? Absolutely, I've got all 1295 01:24:12.279 --> 01:24:14.319 the time in the world for you, Wade. Okay, cool, Well, 1296 01:24:14.359 --> 01:24:16.239 then let's do this We've got two people have been on hold for a 1297 01:24:16.239 --> 01:24:18.720 long time, so let's squeeze in two more calls, but we'll make them 1298 01:24:18.800 --> 01:24:23.800 quick. We'll go to the VIP after show. I've got some hot topics 1299 01:24:23.800 --> 01:24:26.520 to talk to you about, including the Undertaker finished. I want to talk 1300 01:24:26.520 --> 01:24:28.960 to you a little bit more about heels and faces, what I wrote about 1301 01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:32.600 in this week's newsletter, and I want to talk to you about that that 1302 01:24:32.920 --> 01:24:38.520 back and forth I had with Jim Ross on Twitter about payoffs, absolutely, 1303 01:24:38.520 --> 01:24:42.520 because that's a big thing and if you talked about it last week in our 1304 01:24:42.520 --> 01:24:45.159 for our interview, I want to I want to push again if you're not 1305 01:24:45.279 --> 01:24:48.640 VIP, when you go VIP, I take it to the next level and 1306 01:24:48.680 --> 01:24:55.479 go VIP the place to go p w Torch dot com slash go v I 1307 01:24:55.600 --> 01:24:58.640 P Let's take two more calls, six O nine and eighty five six you've 1308 01:24:58.640 --> 01:25:00.239 been on a long time. Then gonna go to what I just talked about, 1309 01:25:00.239 --> 01:25:02.520 the VIP after show, and there's gonna be some good stuff on the 1310 01:25:02.520 --> 01:25:05.479 other side of the music for VIP members. Oh and by the way, 1311 01:25:05.680 --> 01:25:09.640 the VIP shows when we put them up are ad free, So I take 1312 01:25:09.680 --> 01:25:13.319 out this plug that you just heard in the sponsorship plugs earlier in the show. 1313 01:25:13.399 --> 01:25:15.800 VIP members here in ad free show. That is a new feature we 1314 01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:19.039 started this year and it's very popular. Your time is money, so for 1315 01:25:19.119 --> 01:25:23.880 ten bucks a month we pay you back with by editing out the ads. 1316 01:25:24.079 --> 01:25:26.760 All kinds of add free access to our website too, tons and tons of 1317 01:25:26.800 --> 01:25:30.119 benefits going VIP. Check out details at PW Torch dot com slash go VIP. 1318 01:25:30.600 --> 01:25:32.640 All right, eight five six, you're up next. You've been out 1319 01:25:32.640 --> 01:25:35.319 all the while. Thank you so much for holding tell us where you're calling 1320 01:25:35.359 --> 01:25:41.880 from and your name. Hey, this is VIP member Wilson Jersey will even 1321 01:25:41.960 --> 01:25:45.800 here from you. Hey, Bob, I was just calling on a small 1322 01:25:45.880 --> 01:25:47.760 question. I was just calling because I know you had JR. On last 1323 01:25:47.760 --> 01:25:50.760 Friday. I believe I was wondering. I guess you didn't get a chance 1324 01:25:50.800 --> 01:25:57.479 to ask if I know you always say why don't they like band Daniel Bryant 1325 01:25:57.520 --> 01:26:00.920 from doing the cock group head? But oh yeah, you know what I 1326 01:26:00.920 --> 01:26:03.079 mean. You know it's caused it so many injuries, and I just wanted 1327 01:26:03.159 --> 01:26:06.640 Bob's opinion. Smith. Oh really good question. Yeah, Bob, I 1328 01:26:06.680 --> 01:26:10.119 remember, I'll put context on this because I've been talking about this a lot, 1329 01:26:10.159 --> 01:26:13.079 and Will is aware of it. When Chris benwa was doing the top 1330 01:26:13.159 --> 01:26:16.000 rope head butt, Harley Race came out, what an authority on the diving 1331 01:26:16.039 --> 01:26:18.279 head butt. He did it for years, not off the top rope, 1332 01:26:18.520 --> 01:26:21.119 had next surgery and said he wishes he never did the whole the move, 1333 01:26:21.159 --> 01:26:25.079 and no one else should do it. It's hard. It's just jarring on 1334 01:26:25.119 --> 01:26:27.920 the neck the way it's hard to protect yourself with your arms by your side 1335 01:26:27.960 --> 01:26:30.000 doing that. And he said, ben washingon' do it. Ben Wah had 1336 01:26:30.079 --> 01:26:33.520 next surgery, took time off and came back and started doing it again. 1337 01:26:33.640 --> 01:26:39.800 And I have been outspoken against that, and now daniel'brian is doing it. 1338 01:26:40.199 --> 01:26:43.720 And for so many reasons, including the memory of Chris Benwall in the tragic, 1339 01:26:43.840 --> 01:26:45.640 tragic and sad way that his life and his wife and his kids life 1340 01:26:45.640 --> 01:26:47.960 came to an end. I just don't like it symbolically, but I think 1341 01:26:47.960 --> 01:26:55.119 it's bad for it shows a lack of acknowledging symbolically and real in real life 1342 01:26:55.560 --> 01:26:58.640 that of the thousands of moves Daniel Bryan is capable of, he doesn't need 1343 01:26:58.680 --> 01:27:00.800 to do that move, so I'm against the How did how do wrestlers deal 1344 01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:04.720 with that in terms of kind of choosing between the danger involved in a move 1345 01:27:04.920 --> 01:27:11.119 and all the others that you have to choose from. Well, for I 1346 01:27:11.479 --> 01:27:15.000 had no idea that it was a hot topic. I really didn't. And 1347 01:27:15.399 --> 01:27:18.479 I know when Ben Why used to do it when he did it to me, 1348 01:27:19.119 --> 01:27:24.880 like he actually hits you like you know, and not so much on 1349 01:27:24.920 --> 01:27:28.439 the head, but like I know, he his forehead caught me on the 1350 01:27:28.520 --> 01:27:30.560 jaw one night and I saw stars. I mean I was out of it 1351 01:27:30.640 --> 01:27:35.159 for a few minutes, and so I know he's it's it's there's a really 1352 01:27:35.960 --> 01:27:40.560 you know, it's really tight, and I can see how people would, 1353 01:27:40.640 --> 01:27:44.279 you know, have problems from it. And but I don't understand, you 1354 01:27:44.279 --> 01:27:47.399 know, because WWE was they were against the pile driver and they stopped letting 1355 01:27:47.399 --> 01:27:50.800 people do that, and you know, I it's hard for me to say 1356 01:27:50.840 --> 01:27:56.720 because I don't know why they're allowing him to do it. I don't understand 1357 01:27:56.760 --> 01:28:00.520 because most of the time they want you to do stuff that not only is 1358 01:28:00.600 --> 01:28:03.680 safe for your opponent but also safe for you, you know. And but 1359 01:28:03.760 --> 01:28:10.359 I don't understand why they're allowing him to do it now. I just it's 1360 01:28:10.439 --> 01:28:14.560 that's kind of hard for me to comment on because typically, you know, 1361 01:28:15.640 --> 01:28:17.720 if it's a move that's you know, bad for somebody, they're not going 1362 01:28:17.800 --> 01:28:21.640 to allow people to really do it anymore, knowing would you know about about 1363 01:28:21.720 --> 01:28:25.199 being in the ring and being on the receiving ende of the move but also 1364 01:28:25.279 --> 01:28:29.039 having neck problems? Is that a diving headbutt? Is that a move that 1365 01:28:29.079 --> 01:28:33.000 can be done safely or is there a certain amount of impact that's almost inevitable 1366 01:28:33.039 --> 01:28:36.640 with that move? It? You know, there's got to be a certain 1367 01:28:36.640 --> 01:28:42.880 amount of impact because especially like if a guy's got really long hair, you 1368 01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:45.239 know, like Daniel's hair is long, he could get it, probably get 1369 01:28:45.279 --> 01:28:48.640 away with not touching you. Yeah, but a guy that has short hair, 1370 01:28:48.800 --> 01:28:51.720 if he was to ever cut his hair, then he would probably have 1371 01:28:51.800 --> 01:28:57.960 to physically connect to make it look good, you know. So I just, 1372 01:28:58.359 --> 01:29:00.680 you know, that's that's a tough one. I just, you know, 1373 01:29:00.760 --> 01:29:05.319 because a lot of times, a lot of times when you do a 1374 01:29:05.359 --> 01:29:10.479 move, you try to get as close as possible without actually touching that person, 1375 01:29:11.079 --> 01:29:14.000 you know, And that's one of those moves where you've got you're coming 1376 01:29:14.079 --> 01:29:16.479 down from fifteen feet in the air, and that's kind of hard to, 1377 01:29:17.560 --> 01:29:28.039 you know, to not hit somebody. You don't have to wait for the 1378 01:29:28.039 --> 01:29:30.359 way Keller Progrestling post show to find out what I thought of Monday Night Raw 1379 01:29:30.359 --> 01:29:33.560 and SmackDown. Each week, you can check out my reports that are updated 1380 01:29:33.840 --> 01:29:40.119 live throughout Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell 1381 01:29:40.159 --> 01:29:43.520 you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show, and it'll also 1382 01:29:43.600 --> 01:29:47.880 analyze key segments and give my random thoughts quips on what I am watching as 1383 01:29:47.920 --> 01:29:53.039 it airs. So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night at pewtorch 1384 01:29:53.239 --> 01:29:57.159 dot com. That also applies to WWE pay per views. I cover those 1385 01:29:57.199 --> 01:30:00.199 live at pw torch dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings, 1386 01:30:00.319 --> 01:30:03.880 and of course you can find other TV reports from other contributors to pw torch 1387 01:30:03.960 --> 01:30:08.840 such as nxt Ro, oh, Impact Wrestling and more. Check it out 1388 01:30:08.920 --> 01:30:13.680 pw torch dot com your first stop for TV and pay per view written reports. 1389 01:30:25.039 --> 01:30:28.359 When a big part of a big part, it absolutely correct me if 1390 01:30:28.359 --> 01:30:30.479 I'm wrong, because I've never stepped in the ring and taken a bump and 1391 01:30:30.520 --> 01:30:33.079 I don't pretend that I have, and so I say this with all humility 1392 01:30:33.119 --> 01:30:38.560 and willingness to be corrected. But part of the goal when you take bumps, 1393 01:30:38.600 --> 01:30:41.119 any kind of execute a move or take a bump, is to hit 1394 01:30:41.159 --> 01:30:44.439 a large surface area. And that's why the hands slap the mat. And 1395 01:30:44.520 --> 01:30:46.960 I learned that in judo when I because I did take judo and jiu jitsu 1396 01:30:47.039 --> 01:30:50.319 classes and parate classes. And when you get thrown and I've taken bumps on 1397 01:30:50.319 --> 01:30:56.000 a judo matt, you you want to slap that mat and spread the impact 1398 01:30:56.319 --> 01:31:00.520 a diving head butt with your arms by your side, there's nothing else stopping 1399 01:31:00.560 --> 01:31:03.800 that. You any impact that happens, your body hits something because of gravity 1400 01:31:03.880 --> 01:31:08.800 and stops and it's not his flat back, it's not his arms, it's 1401 01:31:09.079 --> 01:31:11.399 his chest and neck in the head. And I just think that's got to 1402 01:31:11.439 --> 01:31:15.000 be really bad. Just that's got to be one of the worst moves where 1403 01:31:15.079 --> 01:31:17.680 you can't protect yourself. Yeah, that's that's something that's and see, that's 1404 01:31:17.680 --> 01:31:20.720 what puzzles me is why they're allowing him to do it, because that is 1405 01:31:20.760 --> 01:31:27.720 a move you really can't protect yourself either. Either person's not protected because you 1406 01:31:27.840 --> 01:31:30.439 have to connect on something like that, you know, because otherwise people aren't 1407 01:31:30.439 --> 01:31:35.600 gonna buy it, you know, And so that's just that's just it. 1408 01:31:35.600 --> 01:31:40.279 It puzzles me that they they're allowing him to continue to do that. So, 1409 01:31:40.359 --> 01:31:43.199 like I said, guy that you know, some guys, I think 1410 01:31:43.239 --> 01:31:45.720 I've seen some guys do the diving head but where they land on their arms, 1411 01:31:45.760 --> 01:31:49.760 you know, they use their elbows in their forearms to take the impact, 1412 01:31:50.520 --> 01:31:56.399 you know. And but still that's that's that's really really hard to protect 1413 01:31:56.479 --> 01:31:59.560 anybody doing. You know, I didn't like it a lot of times when 1414 01:31:59.600 --> 01:32:02.000 Chris would it to me. You know, it was just one of those 1415 01:32:02.000 --> 01:32:06.119 things. Back then, it was just you know, there wasn't much concern 1416 01:32:06.199 --> 01:32:10.960 for safety except for the pile driver. I mean there was, but it 1417 01:32:11.039 --> 01:32:15.000 was very physical, you know when you got up to the head yeah right, 1418 01:32:15.520 --> 01:32:19.319 yeah, you know. So yeah, because you didn't block a chair 1419 01:32:19.399 --> 01:32:23.920 shot, because that's one of the things you didn't do. And I and 1420 01:32:24.239 --> 01:32:27.159 that's something I've always regretted. It's like I should have blocked it. But 1421 01:32:27.279 --> 01:32:30.079 then again, you know, when you're in the heat of the moment, 1422 01:32:30.279 --> 01:32:33.159 you wanted to look good for TV too, you know. So but it's 1423 01:32:33.239 --> 01:32:39.119 it's a diving head butt of something that's just really hard to protect. And 1424 01:32:39.199 --> 01:32:41.720 like I said, when you know, back when I was working with Chris 1425 01:32:41.760 --> 01:32:45.159 and them, you know, you just took the blow, You just went 1426 01:32:45.239 --> 01:32:47.760 with it, and just whatever happened ended up happening. Luckily, you know, 1427 01:32:47.840 --> 01:32:50.079 not too many people got hurt from it. And like I said, 1428 01:32:50.119 --> 01:32:54.319 I ended up getting a mild concussion from it because you know, he did 1429 01:32:54.359 --> 01:32:57.159 catch me in the jaw. He head butted me in the jaw because I 1430 01:32:57.159 --> 01:32:59.560 think he was going for my shoulder and he got me in my jaw. 1431 01:32:59.680 --> 01:33:02.239 So I can see how if Daniel Bryant is to do it, you know, 1432 01:33:03.039 --> 01:33:06.439 on a regular basis, he's gonna miss and hurt somebody, or he's 1433 01:33:06.439 --> 01:33:11.000 gonna hurt himself or eventually take a toll on his neck, and he's gonna 1434 01:33:11.039 --> 01:33:14.439 have problems, you know. And the thing is when you're young like he 1435 01:33:14.560 --> 01:33:16.199 is now, and you're fresh in the business, because he's what, he's 1436 01:33:16.199 --> 01:33:19.479 been there, what two three years now? Dan, you know, yeah, 1437 01:33:19.560 --> 01:33:23.720 yeah, you don't feel anything when you're out there, you don't feel 1438 01:33:23.760 --> 01:33:26.640 anything. You know, he's gonna start feeling it later on. As he 1439 01:33:26.680 --> 01:33:30.760 continues to do it. But and he he's rustled a long time before WWE. 1440 01:33:30.760 --> 01:33:31.680 And that's the thing too, is that's what I worry about, is 1441 01:33:31.960 --> 01:33:36.319 he's you know, he's not Ray Mysterio. He's not Kevin Garnett well in 1442 01:33:36.399 --> 01:33:39.680 terms of the years he's put in and the mile that he has. He's 1443 01:33:39.720 --> 01:33:44.199 in his early thirties and and headed quickly to mid thirties, and I do 1444 01:33:44.279 --> 01:33:47.239 worry that there he needs to It's you know, Ray was really smart about 1445 01:33:47.279 --> 01:33:50.279 it when he got to WWF and or ww and they told him, you 1446 01:33:50.319 --> 01:33:53.960 only need to have three four signature moves here and pick the ones that has 1447 01:33:54.000 --> 01:33:56.720 the least impact on your body. And Ray was pretty good about that, 1448 01:33:56.760 --> 01:33:59.399 and he's made it, you know, to forty years old because of it. 1449 01:34:00.279 --> 01:34:02.039 I just want Daniel Bryant because he's so good at so many things. 1450 01:34:02.039 --> 01:34:05.199 He doesn't need to take that shortcut. One thing that's you know, you 1451 01:34:05.239 --> 01:34:10.760 mentioned Bob wanting to make it look real. The NHL a long time ago 1452 01:34:11.880 --> 01:34:15.640 banned helmets, and it's one of the biggest setbacks in the marketing of the 1453 01:34:15.760 --> 01:34:19.520 NHL was having players have to wear helmets because it made them anonymous, you 1454 01:34:19.520 --> 01:34:23.960 know, and you know in football it's a little bit different because the game 1455 01:34:24.000 --> 01:34:26.319 isn't just constant. You can show the face of the players. Everybody's got 1456 01:34:26.319 --> 01:34:29.880 different position, different sizes. It's tough in hockey without the helmets. And 1457 01:34:30.439 --> 01:34:34.159 when you look back at seventies and early eighties hockey, you know there's players 1458 01:34:34.159 --> 01:34:36.399 that you just know who they are because they didn't wear helmets. But the 1459 01:34:36.479 --> 01:34:41.760 NHL made a tough economic decision for the safety of players and said everyone's wearing 1460 01:34:41.800 --> 01:34:44.560 helmets. And it took wrestling a long time to get there. We put 1461 01:34:44.600 --> 01:34:46.840 up twenty years ago radio shows John every week, just about every week could 1462 01:34:46.840 --> 01:34:50.199 put up a show from John Arezzi's Progressing Spotlight in New York. Just last 1463 01:34:50.199 --> 01:34:54.199 week I picked up a couple boxes of them. I've got over one hundred 1464 01:34:54.199 --> 01:34:57.199 and fifty cassette tapes from the early nineties of his show, and it's going 1465 01:34:57.279 --> 01:35:00.640 to take us three years to put these all up, and it's fascinating every 1466 01:35:00.680 --> 01:35:03.520 week. I listened to them when I transmoved them from cassette to MP three, 1467 01:35:04.239 --> 01:35:06.880 and I was just listening to one yesterday, and I put one up 1468 01:35:06.920 --> 01:35:12.319 for VIP members and we had some indie reports. People call up from indie 1469 01:35:12.319 --> 01:35:15.399 shows in the Northeast from nineteen ninety four, and they're talking about it and 1470 01:35:15.439 --> 01:35:18.680 the way they talk about wrestling and the moves. It was so different then, 1471 01:35:19.000 --> 01:35:23.840 because twenty years ago we hadn't been numb. We weren't numbed to all 1472 01:35:23.920 --> 01:35:27.239 these big spots. Nobody had done these big spots before, and they were 1473 01:35:27.239 --> 01:35:31.159 being glamorized. And I listen now and I'm fascinated intellectually, but I cringe 1474 01:35:31.159 --> 01:35:35.159 emotionally a little bit at how all of us were somewhat naive to the long 1475 01:35:35.239 --> 01:35:42.439 term effects of the emerging hardcore era and wrestlers doing so much more, the 1476 01:35:42.479 --> 01:35:45.840 emergence of Mick Foley as Cactus Jack and what Eddie Gilbert was doing, and 1477 01:35:45.880 --> 01:35:50.000 then what Taboo speaking of him did. And I cringe now in retrospect at 1478 01:35:50.079 --> 01:35:55.199 that what we were embarking on in ninety three ninety four, and what wrestlers 1479 01:35:55.239 --> 01:35:58.319 put their bodies through, and how differently now we look at it than when 1480 01:35:58.359 --> 01:36:00.920 I listened to those twenty years ago radio shows. Yeah, yeah, it's 1481 01:36:00.960 --> 01:36:05.600 it's it's insanely different. It is. It's it's it's just different, you 1482 01:36:05.640 --> 01:36:11.479 know, It's just it's how it's you know, everything evolves, Everything evolves, 1483 01:36:11.680 --> 01:36:15.880 you know, and and if I could do something different, you know, 1484 01:36:16.039 --> 01:36:19.399 because it's like when you're wait, when you're in the moment, you're 1485 01:36:19.399 --> 01:36:27.239 adrenaline is just like going nuts, you know, and so you don't really 1486 01:36:27.520 --> 01:36:30.279 I mean, you feel it, but you really don't feel it. You 1487 01:36:30.279 --> 01:36:35.640 know, you feel it a little bit. But now I understand why I 1488 01:36:35.680 --> 01:36:40.680 shouldn't have done a lot of things I did because I'm feeling it today. 1489 01:36:39.760 --> 01:36:43.640 Yeah, and I and I think, you know, with the way wrestling 1490 01:36:43.800 --> 01:36:48.439 is, the guys are doing so much more now, high risk stuff that 1491 01:36:49.600 --> 01:36:54.880 if they don't slow down because it's they think that these moves is what is 1492 01:36:54.920 --> 01:36:57.560 what's going to get them over, and that's not what's going to get them 1493 01:36:57.560 --> 01:37:00.359 over. It's entertaining for the people. That's great, you know, but 1494 01:37:01.239 --> 01:37:03.479 they think that. You know, once you do it, you got to 1495 01:37:03.560 --> 01:37:06.640 keep doing it because that's what the people expect to see out of you. 1496 01:37:06.720 --> 01:37:10.920 And like the diving headbut with Daniel Bryant, people are gonna expect to see 1497 01:37:10.960 --> 01:37:15.159 that out of him, you know, because he does it. And you 1498 01:37:15.199 --> 01:37:18.079 know, I just I don't know, I'm for I'm I'm for the helmets 1499 01:37:18.119 --> 01:37:23.880 in the NHL. I really I don't watch hockey that much, but I 1500 01:37:23.920 --> 01:37:28.199 do remember I got on skates one time when when I was a young kid, 1501 01:37:28.199 --> 01:37:30.560 and I flipped back and hit my head and I wound up with a 1502 01:37:30.560 --> 01:37:35.119 concussion. And that ice is like concrete, you know, in those guys 1503 01:37:35.159 --> 01:37:39.760 even taking punches and shots and you know, elbows and sticks to the head 1504 01:37:39.760 --> 01:37:43.880 and stuff. To me, that is a wise choice to wear a helmet 1505 01:37:43.920 --> 01:37:46.359 in hockey, you know. And that's just that that's hard for me to 1506 01:37:46.399 --> 01:37:50.479 believe that people wouldn't want hockey players to wear helmets. It's just it's just 1507 01:37:50.520 --> 01:37:55.319 tough because you lose that that that personality that you can see in the NBA 1508 01:37:55.479 --> 01:38:01.079 so clearly where yeah, because you don't you you you identify with that player 1509 01:38:01.640 --> 01:38:05.720 without without his helmet on. But then it's almost like when he puts the 1510 01:38:05.720 --> 01:38:10.399 helmet on, you can't see who he is. Yeah, And it's you 1511 01:38:10.439 --> 01:38:13.039 know, it's tough, and it's tough in a game where there's line changes 1512 01:38:13.039 --> 01:38:15.920 all the time in a defense and there's I don't know, what is it, 1513 01:38:15.359 --> 01:38:20.119 four lines of forwards and three lines of defense. So that's twelve plus 1514 01:38:20.119 --> 01:38:23.520 six. So you got about eighteen players I think on the bench in an 1515 01:38:23.520 --> 01:38:25.439 a game, and they all, you know, all of them are playing 1516 01:38:25.439 --> 01:38:27.680 a lot of minutes. And when you don't get to see the hair and 1517 01:38:27.720 --> 01:38:30.439 the face and the facial hair and the personality that comes with that, it 1518 01:38:30.439 --> 01:38:34.359 does diminish the game. But my point with that is the NHL decades ago 1519 01:38:34.560 --> 01:38:38.680 made the tough call to say, we're gonna bite the bullet, We're gonna 1520 01:38:38.680 --> 01:38:42.159 take the hit. We need the players to be healthy. And you know, 1521 01:38:42.199 --> 01:38:44.920 whether it's a players organization or the owners or collect or the media, 1522 01:38:45.159 --> 01:38:47.840 all of them together just kind of put pressure and made it happen. Wrestling's 1523 01:38:47.840 --> 01:38:50.720 been a little bit slower to do that. WWE likes to pat themselves now 1524 01:38:50.760 --> 01:38:54.680 for their concussion policy and their wellness policy, and it's great, and I 1525 01:38:54.720 --> 01:38:57.319 applaud them for doing the right thing, but I think some of these things 1526 01:38:57.359 --> 01:39:01.399 took a little longer than they should have to become standard policy for the sake 1527 01:39:01.439 --> 01:39:03.520 of the safety of the restorers. I want to talk about a couple things 1528 01:39:03.520 --> 01:39:05.960 on this in the BP after show. Let's sneak in six oh nine here 1529 01:39:06.199 --> 01:39:10.000 before we wrap up the free part of the show. Six o nine. 1530 01:39:10.039 --> 01:39:13.720 Thanks for your patients and holding. Please state your name and where you're from. 1531 01:39:13.920 --> 01:39:15.359 Hey, what's going on? Wade is Lewis again from New Jersey. 1532 01:39:15.520 --> 01:39:19.159 He remember me, but I called it like a while ago. Yeah, 1533 01:39:19.199 --> 01:39:23.479 go ahead, yeah, all right, and I check it out. I 1534 01:39:23.520 --> 01:39:26.239 got three things, So Wade, did you just want to you know, 1535 01:39:26.479 --> 01:39:28.680 take a note? Yeah, yeah, hit us rapid fire and they'll put 1536 01:39:28.680 --> 01:39:31.000 you on hold the while that Bob answer rapid fire. All right quick. 1537 01:39:31.039 --> 01:39:33.880 They're kind of quick questions anyway, Yeah, all right. Now. The 1538 01:39:33.960 --> 01:39:40.399 first question invols the loss of the titles after I forgot what year it was, 1539 01:39:40.479 --> 01:39:45.399 but I think it was like ninety eighty seven or whatever when Bob and 1540 01:39:46.239 --> 01:39:50.439 ex Sean walt Man when pretty much they won the titles and they lost it 1541 01:39:50.560 --> 01:39:54.880 the next night to the you know, the smoking guns. So I just 1542 01:39:54.960 --> 01:39:59.600 want to know what was going on behind the scenes and why like that occurred. 1543 01:39:59.640 --> 01:40:03.479 But then the next two questions are I've always noticed over the years that 1544 01:40:04.159 --> 01:40:12.319 dins like Man has always booked Southerners like in just like goofy comedy angles or 1545 01:40:12.399 --> 01:40:17.000 sometimes just not book them appropriately and like just the reminders, you know, 1546 01:40:17.039 --> 01:40:24.560 the job squad gimmick, the midnight expressed the revision of that, you know, 1547 01:40:24.920 --> 01:40:29.000 you facing China, not the China's any bad because she was you know, 1548 01:40:29.159 --> 01:40:31.039 I mean I really enjoyed her, but you know, it almost seemed 1549 01:40:31.079 --> 01:40:34.520 like people like he was trying to embarrass the person putting them against her. 1550 01:40:34.680 --> 01:40:36.920 So I just want to know, with all those angles that you were put 1551 01:40:36.960 --> 01:40:41.680 in, did you ever like sense, like, you know, any prejudice 1552 01:40:41.720 --> 01:40:45.720 from nickmahon, like against Southerners. And the last question is just a simple 1553 01:40:45.720 --> 01:40:48.439 one. Was Rob van dam to you like really that stiff in the ring 1554 01:40:48.479 --> 01:40:51.760 with all his kicks and whatnot? And that's pretty much it, Bob cool, 1555 01:40:53.640 --> 01:40:58.840 appreciate it us. Glad we speak because those are some good topics. 1556 01:40:59.119 --> 01:41:03.479 Yeah they are. Rob. Yeah, Rob, he's pretty snug. He's 1557 01:41:03.960 --> 01:41:06.760 he's heavy too. Let me tell you something that's something. The guns heavy. 1558 01:41:08.039 --> 01:41:12.239 Yeah, and he when he kicks you, you know, I mean, 1559 01:41:12.840 --> 01:41:16.960 I always you know, I don't know if you know, this kind 1560 01:41:16.960 --> 01:41:19.439 of goes back to what we were talking to just a few minutes ago about 1561 01:41:19.600 --> 01:41:24.680 safety and you know, getting hit in the head and stuff like that. 1562 01:41:24.840 --> 01:41:30.640 And but I was I always wanted Rob to just you know, lay it 1563 01:41:30.720 --> 01:41:33.039 in there. Rob is always laid it in there regardless, I think, 1564 01:41:33.439 --> 01:41:36.079 you know, and anytime I worked with him, you know, he always 1565 01:41:36.159 --> 01:41:40.039 kicked me. When he kicked me, he kicked me, you know, 1566 01:41:40.239 --> 01:41:42.880 so in which I don't. I didn't mind that, you know, because 1567 01:41:42.920 --> 01:41:45.960 I I was the kind of guy that I wanted everything to be as realistic 1568 01:41:45.960 --> 01:41:53.239 as possible without being real if that makes sense, you know, in ring 1569 01:41:53.319 --> 01:41:58.720 time, Yeah and yeah, and so you know, I didn't mind getting 1570 01:41:59.079 --> 01:42:02.760 you know, nailed by at all and or anybody for that matter. But 1571 01:42:02.840 --> 01:42:08.439 as far as the you know, like the the loss of the titles ME 1572 01:42:08.479 --> 01:42:14.600 and xpoc to the Smoking Guns, I was I was new to the company 1573 01:42:14.640 --> 01:42:17.000 back then, and so I was just kind of going with the flow with 1574 01:42:17.039 --> 01:42:21.000 whatever, because I didn't know how the game was played back then as far 1575 01:42:21.039 --> 01:42:26.159 as politics and stuff like that, and you know, and I still didn't 1576 01:42:26.199 --> 01:42:30.079 know when I left, But you know, so I just kind of went 1577 01:42:30.119 --> 01:42:33.640 with the flow. And I don't I didn't know the reasoning why, you 1578 01:42:33.680 --> 01:42:36.640 know, they took the titles and gave them to us. I think it 1579 01:42:36.680 --> 01:42:41.479 was just for maybe thinking back, it was just a transition to get the 1580 01:42:41.479 --> 01:42:47.640 titles off of off of Tatanka and oh shit, whoever as partner with I 1581 01:42:47.720 --> 01:42:51.159 can't remember, but anyway to get them off, get them on us, 1582 01:42:51.159 --> 01:42:55.600 and then get them back on the Smoking Guns on Monday Night Raw, you 1583 01:42:55.600 --> 01:42:59.000 know, because I think that they were having a storyline. They were going 1584 01:42:59.039 --> 01:43:01.399 forward with the Smoking Gun with the titles, I think for a title run, 1585 01:43:01.600 --> 01:43:05.399 and I think that was the way to transition to get the titles. 1586 01:43:05.439 --> 01:43:08.880 Now, I'm not for sure, because I don't know what was going on, 1587 01:43:08.920 --> 01:43:11.319 like I said, because I was I was new to the company and 1588 01:43:11.359 --> 01:43:14.800 I was just you know, I was just trying to figure everything out, 1589 01:43:15.039 --> 01:43:18.920 and you know, so i'd really that's I don't know what their reasoning was 1590 01:43:18.920 --> 01:43:23.560 for that, but like the job squad, so I don't think, you 1591 01:43:23.600 --> 01:43:27.000 know, I don't think Vince was prejudiced against Southern nurse. You know. 1592 01:43:27.239 --> 01:43:30.880 I think what a lot of times writers would come up with ideas for certain 1593 01:43:30.920 --> 01:43:34.079 guys and say, hey, let's try this with this guy and see if 1594 01:43:34.119 --> 01:43:39.079 it works. Because I was in that transition to where I was just kind 1595 01:43:39.079 --> 01:43:43.640 of floating around and they didn't really have anything for me, you know, 1596 01:43:43.720 --> 01:43:46.479 so they were you know, al Snow came up with the idea of a 1597 01:43:46.560 --> 01:43:53.279 job squad and having me partake in that, and so that idea was thrown 1598 01:43:53.319 --> 01:43:56.520 out there and throw me in there, and I you know, and with 1599 01:43:56.600 --> 01:44:01.960 the whole Midnight Express thing with with Bart Gunn, I think that was something 1600 01:44:01.960 --> 01:44:06.680 that Jim Cornett wanted to give a try with and recreate the Midnight Express with 1601 01:44:08.000 --> 01:44:13.640 Midnight Express with Midnight Express, which could never be recreated with anybody else because 1602 01:44:13.680 --> 01:44:17.159 there's nobody as good as those two. You know, you cannot you cannot 1603 01:44:17.600 --> 01:44:20.760 copy the Midnight Express. And I just I felt like that was kind of 1604 01:44:20.800 --> 01:44:26.880 silly to do that, but I was just glad to be in in some 1605 01:44:26.960 --> 01:44:29.640 kind of storyline, you know, So I just kind of went with that, 1606 01:44:30.039 --> 01:44:32.199 you know. I was I was still trying to find something that fit 1607 01:44:32.359 --> 01:44:36.479 me because before I got into that hardcore Holly character, you know, like 1608 01:44:36.520 --> 01:44:40.399 I said, I was just searching for something that I could, you know, 1609 01:44:40.479 --> 01:44:44.399 that would work for me. And when Jim Cornett wanted me to be 1610 01:44:44.439 --> 01:44:46.439 part of the Midnight Express, I said yeah, because I knew number one, 1611 01:44:46.479 --> 01:44:50.279 it would get me on TV because they're they're doing something with Jim Cornett, 1612 01:44:50.920 --> 01:44:57.479 you know. And but I felt foolish trying to be the Midnight Express 1613 01:44:57.520 --> 01:45:01.239 because we clearly weren't by no means, you know. And it's funny because 1614 01:45:01.239 --> 01:45:04.800 I talked to Dennis and Bobby about that a few years back, and I 1615 01:45:04.960 --> 01:45:09.279 just, you know, and I apologize to them because I felt like it. 1616 01:45:10.479 --> 01:45:12.920 I didn't want them to feel like I was trying to disrespect them, 1617 01:45:12.960 --> 01:45:15.560 trying to be like them, because I wasn't by no means, Because I 1618 01:45:15.680 --> 01:45:17.319 was, I'd never be as good as those guys were, you know. 1619 01:45:17.520 --> 01:45:21.199 So, But as far as men's being prejudiced, I don't. I don't 1620 01:45:21.199 --> 01:45:26.279 think he's prejudiced at all. I think the man is clearly about making money 1621 01:45:26.640 --> 01:45:29.840 and whoever he can make money with, that's what he's going to do, 1622 01:45:30.319 --> 01:45:33.720 you know. So hopefully that answered your questions. Very good, awesome. 1623 01:45:40.039 --> 01:45:45.119 Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn some wrestling history, don't 1624 01:45:45.159 --> 01:45:48.359 miss the nineties Past Cast. Every Friday on the PW Torch Daly Cast feed, 1625 01:45:48.960 --> 01:45:54.199 Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by taking you 1626 01:45:54.239 --> 01:45:59.640 through the Torch issue from that very weak follow news from the WWF and WCW 1627 01:45:59.680 --> 01:46:02.920 and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as the Torch 1628 01:46:03.000 --> 01:46:08.520 reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties pass cast every Friday on the 1629 01:46:08.520 --> 01:46:23.800 PW Torch Daily Cast feed. We do want to note we've got an interview 1630 01:46:23.840 --> 01:46:28.479 with Christopher Daniels up on PW torch dot com with our collectible specialist. We 1631 01:46:28.520 --> 01:46:30.840 have specialists at PW torch dot com. We specialize in certain areas. Michael 1632 01:46:30.880 --> 01:46:35.439 Moore covers the ups and downs of wrestling collectibles, their values, how things 1633 01:46:35.520 --> 01:46:40.680 change when wrestlers are in the news, and it's a popular column that is 1634 01:46:40.720 --> 01:46:43.560 once a week on PW Torch. And he just put up an interview since 1635 01:46:43.600 --> 01:46:48.199 the show went on the air with Christopher Daniels talking about comic books and Daniel 1636 01:46:48.199 --> 01:46:51.800 Brian's interest in that. It is something I haven't had chance to rediot. 1637 01:46:51.880 --> 01:46:55.399 I just got a tweet saying that he had put it up and I'm looking 1638 01:46:55.399 --> 01:46:58.119 at it now, so check that out. He also talks about the TNA 1639 01:46:58.119 --> 01:47:00.000 locker room, what's next for him in more an exclusive and view for the 1640 01:47:00.039 --> 01:47:06.119 Collectibles column by Michael Moore, exclusively at pewtorch dot com. Bob, thank 1641 01:47:06.159 --> 01:47:09.960 you so much. We are appreciate you staying over time with us. We're 1642 01:47:09.960 --> 01:47:12.880 going to go to the VP after show now and hit on some most topics, 1643 01:47:12.920 --> 01:47:16.439 including Jim Ross and paydays. It's a big conversy now. Battista has 1644 01:47:16.479 --> 01:47:23.680 been in the news a lot of rumblings that he is unhappy. Jason Powell 1645 01:47:23.720 --> 01:47:28.079 reported at Pro Wrestling dot Net on his flagship show dot net Members for dot 1646 01:47:28.119 --> 01:47:30.680 Net Members, the dot Net Weekly Audio Show earlier this week that Big Show 1647 01:47:30.720 --> 01:47:34.439 is among the names he's heard is upset with the paydays. Randy Orton, 1648 01:47:34.560 --> 01:47:39.680 you mentioned Bob Holly, somebody who speaks up. I know Randy at times 1649 01:47:39.680 --> 01:47:43.960 has has been outspoken with management about being upset with things. I would think 1650 01:47:43.960 --> 01:47:45.560 he would be one of the people in line. As Jim Ross talked about 1651 01:47:45.600 --> 01:47:49.199 last week on this very show, it's going to be a delicate situation for 1652 01:47:49.439 --> 01:47:54.640 WWE and and Vincic Maann and Triple H when it comes to pay per views 1653 01:47:55.079 --> 01:48:00.000 being kind of they're winding down on those being a primary revenue source and revenue 1654 01:48:00.119 --> 01:48:02.680 up the network and it's a completely different pay model than They haven't cleared that 1655 01:48:02.720 --> 01:48:05.760 up, so we'll talk to you about that on the other side of the 1656 01:48:05.840 --> 01:48:11.560 music For VIP members again to sign up for VIP it's PW Torch dot com 1657 01:48:11.600 --> 01:48:15.960 slash Go VIP VPP members, we'll get to hear this complete interview. And 1658 01:48:15.000 --> 01:48:17.880 when you go VIP, we have just a link on the page. You 1659 01:48:17.920 --> 01:48:20.399 click on it on our drop menu and you get a listing of all the 1660 01:48:20.399 --> 01:48:25.760 interviews we've done that are available online. All the three and a half years 1661 01:48:25.560 --> 01:48:30.039 of Interview Friday with all the VIP after shows, and twenty six years in 1662 01:48:30.079 --> 01:48:32.279 our Torch Talk library, we've added a lot of interviews from over the years 1663 01:48:32.279 --> 01:48:38.359 in text format and audio format from doing the historic Torch Talk series over the 1664 01:48:38.399 --> 01:48:44.600 decades, the first and longest running insider interview series in the wrestling industry history, 1665 01:48:44.640 --> 01:48:46.600 and we've talked to some of the biggest names and they're all there for 1666 01:48:46.720 --> 01:48:49.760 VIP members, The Rock Hokog and Steve Austin, Scott Hall, Kevin ash 1667 01:48:49.840 --> 01:48:54.600 On and on and on. Check it out. Also thanks to our sponsor 1668 01:48:54.840 --> 01:48:57.920 naturebox dot Com. Now that the show is over, remember to go to 1669 01:48:58.000 --> 01:49:02.239 naturebox dot com in order rate tape. Naturebox dot com slash Pro Wrestling Torch 1670 01:49:02.520 --> 01:49:05.159 Bob thank you. Any last plugs you want to give to the free audience, 1671 01:49:05.600 --> 01:49:09.720 your Twitter and certainly your book and anything else. Yeah, you can 1672 01:49:09.760 --> 01:49:13.199 follow me at the Bob Holly on Twitter. That is me And on June 1673 01:49:13.239 --> 01:49:17.079 seventh, let everybody know I'm in Duluth, Minnesota, Heavy on Wrestling. 1674 01:49:17.159 --> 01:49:21.279 I will be there wrestling that night, so hopefully everybody can come out and 1675 01:49:21.319 --> 01:49:29.239 support Heavy On Wrestling and my book The Bob Holly Here. I'm sorry, 1676 01:49:29.359 --> 01:49:32.079 The Hardcore Truth, The Bob Holly Story. You can get it on Amazon 1677 01:49:32.119 --> 01:49:40.640 dot com. Booked a million, so and you know that's I thank everybody 1678 01:49:40.640 --> 01:49:44.199 for listening. Thank you, and show some love for our sponsor and our 1679 01:49:44.239 --> 01:49:47.520 show. It's Naturebox dot com Slash Pro Wrestling Torch. That's you get fifty 1680 01:49:47.560 --> 01:49:50.199 percent off your first box. On the other side of the music more of 1681 01:49:50.279 --> 01:49:55.159 Hardcore Bob Holly. Thank you everybody for joining us today, for listening, 1682 01:49:55.199 --> 01:49:59.760 and for making us the most successful show on block talk radio covering professional wrestling 1683 01:49:59.760 --> 01:50:02.319 more listeners. We are the show that has the most listeners every week of 1684 01:50:02.399 --> 01:50:08.359 any independent pro wrestling show out there not hosted by a former Mega superstar like 1685 01:50:08.399 --> 01:50:11.840 Steve Austin Jim Ross. Thank you for doing that for us. Keep spreading 1686 01:50:11.840 --> 01:50:15.119 the word and until next time. This is Wade Keller. Signing off, 1687 01:50:44.239 --> 01:50:46.800 thanks as always to Kids on Bridges for the official live cast theme song. 1688 01:50:47.279 --> 01:50:53.079 Do a search for Kids on Bridges online to learn about their new album coming 1689 01:50:53.079 --> 01:50:56.600 out. Current band out of the United Kingdom got some great songs. You 1690 01:50:56.600 --> 01:51:00.239 can look up their music videos, follow them on Facebook and Twitter and tell 1691 01:51:00.319 --> 01:51:03.079 them the Torch Fentha. Thanks to Kids on Bridges as always with their new 1692 01:51:03.119 --> 01:51:05.640 single out and a new album coming out. Will keep you up to date 1693 01:51:05.760 --> 01:51:09.439 on that. Thanks everybody for joining us. We're not to the vach you 1694 01:51:09.439 --> 01:51:11.520 after show portion of the program. I want to get into the Jim Ross 1695 01:51:11.520 --> 01:51:14.600 discussion. Tell me about that and I'll bounce back and forth with you on 1696 01:51:14.680 --> 01:51:16.840 this whole issue with pay per view payoffs and how they're going to work that 1697 01:51:16.920 --> 01:51:20.640 with the network because wrestlers are used to getting these bonuses and that helps get 1698 01:51:20.680 --> 01:51:26.279 them way past their downside guarantee. And from everything I understand, they still 1699 01:51:26.279 --> 01:51:30.279 haven't talked to wrestlers about how as pay per view numbers decline, how is 1700 01:51:30.279 --> 01:51:33.079 that going to be made up for with all this revenue coming in from ww 1701 01:51:33.079 --> 01:51:39.079 BE network. Yeah, I have a strong opinion about that. Yeah, 1702 01:51:39.319 --> 01:51:43.720 somebody asked Jim Ross on Twitter. I guess it was probably it's been about 1703 01:51:43.880 --> 01:51:49.119 two months or six weeks ago or something like that. Asked him about somebody 1704 01:51:49.159 --> 01:51:55.840 said, hey, Bob Holly said in his book that Steve Williams was paid 1705 01:51:55.880 --> 01:51:59.840 off to win the brawl for All, And Jim Ross said, that's not 1706 01:52:00.079 --> 01:52:05.600 true. He said he didn't get paid off. And so I sent Jim 1707 01:52:05.680 --> 01:52:09.920 Ross, you know, a message just saying, hey, this is what 1708 01:52:09.960 --> 01:52:13.800 I was told from Steve. And I don't know why he told me that, 1709 01:52:13.880 --> 01:52:15.399 and I just wanted to declare, you know, for people if they 1710 01:52:15.560 --> 01:52:19.279 had seen that conversation between Jim Ross and I. I just want to clarify, 1711 01:52:19.880 --> 01:52:24.520 you know, what I wrote in my book is what was told to 1712 01:52:24.600 --> 01:52:28.800 me from Steve, you know. And I'm just Williams, you mean, 1713 01:52:28.880 --> 01:52:31.439 not Stone called Steve Boson's real name, but doctor des Steve Williams right to 1714 01:52:31.479 --> 01:52:33.840 get that. But I want to be super clear. Yeah, yeah, 1715 01:52:33.880 --> 01:52:38.000 and so you know, and I just I just want everybody to understand, 1716 01:52:38.119 --> 01:52:41.560 you know, this is something that I did not make up that you know 1717 01:52:42.800 --> 01:52:46.199 obviously, Jim Ross. You know, I'm not sure if he was handling 1718 01:52:46.239 --> 01:52:50.079 payoffs at the time or not, but if anybody would know he would know. 1719 01:52:50.439 --> 01:52:56.359 But I was just informed from Steve Williams himself that he, you know, 1720 01:52:56.680 --> 01:53:00.279 was he was paid off before the brawl for all. And like I 1721 01:53:00.359 --> 01:53:03.039 told JR, I said, you know, I'm just going by what he 1722 01:53:03.079 --> 01:53:08.279 had told me. I did, you know, I had no idea, 1723 01:53:08.479 --> 01:53:12.760 you know, basically saying, you know, I don't know what the truth 1724 01:53:12.880 --> 01:53:15.800 is, basically, you know, because Jim is saying no, he wasn't, 1725 01:53:15.800 --> 01:53:17.439 and then Steve was saying yes he was. So you know, I 1726 01:53:17.840 --> 01:53:24.560 just wanted to clarify that I'm just going by what doctor desk told me, 1727 01:53:25.079 --> 01:53:27.720 you know. And I don't know if because he got knocked out he was 1728 01:53:27.800 --> 01:53:30.439 just kind of in lawa land or what at the time, you know. 1729 01:53:30.680 --> 01:53:33.000 So but I just wanted to, you know, clear that up that I 1730 01:53:33.119 --> 01:53:38.800 was just going by what I was told. I want to talk in a 1731 01:53:38.800 --> 01:53:43.479 general sense about the uh the situation was passed, and how how you would 1732 01:53:43.520 --> 01:53:46.800 handle it if you were there now as a as a veteran of ten plus 1733 01:53:46.840 --> 01:53:49.840 years, if this has happened while you were there, and all of a 1734 01:53:49.880 --> 01:53:54.520 sudden, the pay per view by rates are dropping like WrestleMania did about founder 1735 01:53:54.560 --> 01:53:58.880 thousand domestic buys down about a third from where they were. Obviously, where 1736 01:53:58.880 --> 01:54:01.399 did those two unre thousand buyes. They went to the network because two thirds 1737 01:54:01.439 --> 01:54:05.399 of million people bought the network for sixty dollars for six months. Most of 1738 01:54:05.439 --> 01:54:09.840 them got it because they got WrestleMania as part of that. Yet, that 1739 01:54:10.000 --> 01:54:13.079 sixty dollars is going to be spread out over six months, and it's going 1740 01:54:13.119 --> 01:54:15.479 to contribute to a lot of other it's going to take away from a lot 1741 01:54:15.520 --> 01:54:18.520 of other pay per view by rates, there's a lot more people watching WrestleMania 1742 01:54:18.560 --> 01:54:21.760 and these other pay per views. I'm sure Extreme Rules on Sunday did more 1743 01:54:21.760 --> 01:54:28.399 buys or more had more paid views than any secondary pay per view title has 1744 01:54:28.479 --> 01:54:32.279 had in years, because two thirds of a million people had access to it 1745 01:54:32.279 --> 01:54:35.399 as part of their ongoing subscription. But how are guys going to get paid 1746 01:54:35.399 --> 01:54:39.600 on that in the fact that they haven't been told yet? And as Jim 1747 01:54:39.680 --> 01:54:42.920 rossis, has there ever been a more meek and timid locker room than the 1748 01:54:42.960 --> 01:54:46.840 current one that as yet to my knowledge to demand answers for management or at 1749 01:54:46.920 --> 01:54:49.159 least be told, Hey, we're going to address it, but we need 1750 01:54:49.199 --> 01:54:55.279 to find this information out first. It strikes me as an example of how 1751 01:54:55.760 --> 01:54:58.960 there aren't a lot of choices and the wrestlers are just, you know, 1752 01:54:59.000 --> 01:55:02.239 growingly frustrated, and it just seems like there's not that leadership to get a 1753 01:55:02.279 --> 01:55:06.399 bunch of wrestlers together and go, hey, we want some answers. Yeah. 1754 01:55:08.199 --> 01:55:11.600 The thing is is they don't care. That's the bottom line. I 1755 01:55:11.640 --> 01:55:14.680 mean, they care to a sense, But where where else are you going 1756 01:55:14.760 --> 01:55:17.720 to go? You know, That's what that's their their mindset because when you 1757 01:55:17.760 --> 01:55:21.520 look back at the Monday Night Wars, the people had somewhere to go, 1758 01:55:21.800 --> 01:55:26.680 and that's when they were throwing big money out to keep you. There's there's 1759 01:55:27.359 --> 01:55:30.520 nowhere to go now, so you take what they're going to give you. 1760 01:55:30.600 --> 01:55:32.800 Basically if take it or leave it if you don't. You know, that's 1761 01:55:32.840 --> 01:55:35.520 to me, that's the added to that's the sense. I'm kidding. It's 1762 01:55:35.560 --> 01:55:39.600 like, you know what, because number one, Vince is gonna look after 1763 01:55:39.680 --> 01:55:44.439 Vince first, okay, look after Wall Street first. Actually sadly, yeah, 1764 01:55:44.479 --> 01:55:46.119 now yeah, you're right, you're yeah, yeah, thank you for 1765 01:55:46.359 --> 01:55:49.640 Yeah, you're right because of the public company. But you know, Vince 1766 01:55:49.720 --> 01:55:55.520 is gonna do what's best for He's going to look out for number one. 1767 01:55:55.439 --> 01:56:04.119 Yeah, and you know it's it's that's just if all checks were dropping, 1768 01:56:04.520 --> 01:56:09.680 if your pay Pervy bonuses were dropping, and wwe didn't address it for months 1769 01:56:09.720 --> 01:56:13.800 on end. I have to imagine at some point you would go, wait 1770 01:56:13.800 --> 01:56:15.840 a second, I put my body on the line for you every night. 1771 01:56:16.039 --> 01:56:20.319 There's a system in place. We signed our contracts and our downside under that 1772 01:56:20.359 --> 01:56:25.199 system being in place, that system has now changed. I think you owe 1773 01:56:25.239 --> 01:56:27.640 it to us to have a meeting and keep us up to date on what's 1774 01:56:27.680 --> 01:56:31.640 going on. And they have their quarterly conference calls with the Wall Street but 1775 01:56:31.720 --> 01:56:35.439 they see the wrestlers every day every week, and they don't even address this 1776 01:56:35.640 --> 01:56:39.640 major change in how the pay system's going to work. As Jim Ross said, 1777 01:56:39.680 --> 01:56:44.119 you want to have incentive still existing within the system, but you also 1778 01:56:44.159 --> 01:56:47.960 want wrestlers not disgruntled and feeling disrespected. And I kind of feel like until 1779 01:56:48.000 --> 01:56:50.039 we hear and maybe there was a meeting the last couple of weeks and no 1780 01:56:50.079 --> 01:56:55.039 one's leaked word of it, but I would think that that would have gotten 1781 01:56:55.039 --> 01:56:59.359 out pretty quickly they had they done it. I just think what Bobby the 1782 01:56:59.359 --> 01:57:00.760 locker Room said, you were part of, do you think by now somebody 1783 01:57:00.840 --> 01:57:03.319 or a group of guys would have spoken up and said, hey, you 1784 01:57:03.359 --> 01:57:06.720 know, not not in a confrontational way, but can we get an explanation 1785 01:57:06.840 --> 01:57:11.319 here? Yeah, season, The thing is with the boys. The boys 1786 01:57:11.399 --> 01:57:15.000 might you know, they might talk about being unhappy and hey, what what's 1787 01:57:15.039 --> 01:57:17.600 going on with the paychecks and the pay per views and stuff like that. 1788 01:57:17.920 --> 01:57:24.479 Yeah, you know, but they're not gonna most of them aren't going to 1789 01:57:24.520 --> 01:57:27.279 confront vins about it and say, hey, you know, what's going on? 1790 01:57:27.359 --> 01:57:30.000 We need to know something. You know, how is this gonna you 1791 01:57:30.039 --> 01:57:32.119 know that is how is this going to affect us long term as far as 1792 01:57:31.840 --> 01:57:38.119 our payoffs? You know? Because the thing is one they give you a 1793 01:57:38.159 --> 01:57:43.239 downside guarantee. All they're obligated to do is give you that guarantee and that's 1794 01:57:43.359 --> 01:57:47.199 it. They don't have to give you any more money. You know, 1795 01:57:47.720 --> 01:57:54.479 Like let's say, for instance, of my my downside one hundred thousand dollars. 1796 01:57:54.720 --> 01:57:58.319 Once I reach that one hundred thousand dollars, if I work another show 1797 01:57:58.399 --> 01:58:00.920 after that, they can pay me whatever they want. They can pay me 1798 01:58:00.960 --> 01:58:05.279 five or ten dollars. Yep, that's how it works. But they don't 1799 01:58:05.359 --> 01:58:10.600 you know, they don't. They wouldn't pay you five or ten dollars. 1800 01:58:10.640 --> 01:58:14.159 I'm just using that as a no example. But you know, once you 1801 01:58:14.279 --> 01:58:16.199 reach your downside, that's it. They're not obligated to pay you any more 1802 01:58:16.239 --> 01:58:20.279 than that you can work, you know, unless it's stated in your contract 1803 01:58:20.319 --> 01:58:24.640 that you work X amount of days, you get X amount of dollars. 1804 01:58:24.680 --> 01:58:27.439 Period. That's the way it is. Or you get bonuses or this, 1805 01:58:27.560 --> 01:58:30.279 that or the other. You know so, and a lot of times too, 1806 01:58:30.359 --> 01:58:35.079 on the contract you have a downside guarantee and you don't even think about 1807 01:58:35.119 --> 01:58:42.760 your royalty check as being part of that downside guarantee. See so, a 1808 01:58:42.800 --> 01:58:46.840 good example is when I wrestled Brock at Royal Rumble for the title. Like 1809 01:58:46.920 --> 01:58:49.399 I said, I only got five thousand dollars to that match. I don't 1810 01:58:49.399 --> 01:58:54.079 know what brought got. I'm sure it was way up there. But see 1811 01:58:54.119 --> 01:58:58.159 I that was going towards my downside guarantee. They were going to make sure 1812 01:58:58.479 --> 01:59:01.319 that I didn't exceed my down I guarantee for the year. You know, 1813 01:59:01.399 --> 01:59:06.000 that's why a lot of times your checks are what they are because they don't 1814 01:59:06.039 --> 01:59:13.279 want talent to exceed their downside, which I don't understand that because they're the 1815 01:59:13.319 --> 01:59:16.000 ones, like I said, they're the unsung heroes of the business that that 1816 01:59:17.119 --> 01:59:21.279 you know, they make. They're a big reason why the company makes a 1817 01:59:21.279 --> 01:59:25.319 lot of money, you know. And it's like the boys are the ones 1818 01:59:25.359 --> 01:59:28.680 putting their asses on the line, you know, They're the ones doing the 1819 01:59:28.880 --> 01:59:31.359 doing the legwork, doing the hard work, you know. And it's like 1820 01:59:31.479 --> 01:59:35.119 reward these guys. You know, they should be getting an extra zero on 1821 01:59:35.159 --> 01:59:41.560 their paycheck. They really should, you know, because that's a billion dollar 1822 01:59:41.600 --> 01:59:45.880 company and Vince is making money hand over fist, you know, and he 1823 01:59:45.199 --> 01:59:50.159 you know, I think the boys should get more because especially if the pay 1824 01:59:50.199 --> 01:59:55.279 per views, because you did rely on the pay per views for a big 1825 01:59:55.359 --> 02:00:00.399 chunk of your yearly uh your yearly check, you know, or you your 1826 02:00:00.840 --> 02:00:05.399 bonuses. You know, that was a huge bonus to get. And now 1827 02:00:05.840 --> 02:00:10.680 because of the network, the guys don't know what's going on. And it's 1828 02:00:10.680 --> 02:00:13.319 hard for me to comment on that because I don't know either, you know. 1829 02:00:13.720 --> 02:00:16.560 But if I was in that situation, yeah, I'd be wanting to 1830 02:00:16.600 --> 02:00:19.720 know too. It's like, hey, what's going on? But see again, 1831 02:00:19.920 --> 02:00:26.680 a lot of the guys don't want to rock the boat because they're afraid 1832 02:00:26.720 --> 02:00:30.359 that if they go complain or want to know something. You know, a 1833 02:00:30.359 --> 02:00:34.000 lot of times it works against you, and it really does, you know, 1834 02:00:34.000 --> 02:00:38.000 because they don't want to when it comes to money. They don't want 1835 02:00:38.039 --> 02:00:43.039 you bringing up money. They really don't, you know. And again the 1836 02:00:43.079 --> 02:00:45.640 whole thing with your downside guarantee. Once you reach that downside, they're not 1837 02:00:45.760 --> 02:00:51.920 obligated to pay you anymore. Yeah, And a lot of times they've got 1838 02:00:51.960 --> 02:00:58.600 it figured out to a t each individual talent, like they know what every 1839 02:00:58.600 --> 02:01:00.960 they know what each individual time talent, they know what their guarantee is for 1840 02:01:01.000 --> 02:01:05.000 the year, and they've got it figured out every week how much they're going 1841 02:01:05.039 --> 02:01:09.840 to give that person to where they don't exceed their guarantee a lot of times, 1842 02:01:10.319 --> 02:01:13.279 because a lot of times, the only time I ever exceeded my guarantee 1843 02:01:14.439 --> 02:01:16.359 was I think there was like two or three years, three years in the 1844 02:01:16.359 --> 02:01:24.119 attitude era where I exceeded my guarantee because money was so good. But you 1845 02:01:24.159 --> 02:01:27.880 know, and and but I don't know how it is now, what they 1846 02:01:27.920 --> 02:01:30.840 do, I'm sure it's still the same. They make sure guys just do 1847 02:01:30.960 --> 02:01:33.920 get that, you know, what their downside is, you know, and 1848 02:01:34.000 --> 02:01:39.479 I you know. And the thing is too with the WW network that benefits 1849 02:01:39.600 --> 02:01:44.399 Vince and the whole you know, Wall Street, that it doesn't. I 1850 02:01:44.439 --> 02:01:48.600 don't think it really does anything for the boys. But the only good thing 1851 02:01:48.640 --> 02:01:53.079 that it does to me, it does do is it gives you the history 1852 02:01:53.159 --> 02:01:57.920 of everybody that's that's worked for the company. You know, like a lot 1853 02:01:57.920 --> 02:02:00.520 of people growing up today they don't know who hard Where Holly is, you 1854 02:02:00.520 --> 02:02:03.640 know, so they can go back on the WW networks they could see who, 1855 02:02:03.960 --> 02:02:08.000 you know, who Hardcore Holly is now and they would know who that 1856 02:02:08.039 --> 02:02:13.199 person is, you know. So I mean that's good because it offers so 1857 02:02:13.399 --> 02:02:15.920 much. I think it's I think it's good for the for the fans, 1858 02:02:16.279 --> 02:02:20.960 but I think it's bad for the boys. Thanks for downloading today's show. 1859 02:02:21.000 --> 02:02:24.960 Take it to the next level with a VIP membership, get shows like this, 1860 02:02:25.279 --> 02:02:28.399 the Way Keller Prosing Podcast, Weight Keller Prosing Post Show, and the 1861 02:02:28.439 --> 02:02:33.079 PW Torch daily casts on our PW Torch VIP podcast feed with ads and plugs 1862 02:02:33.119 --> 02:02:38.359 removed from the shows for a streamlined listening experience, and also hear the VIP 1863 02:02:38.439 --> 02:02:41.960 exclusive shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin everything with Rich Fan 1864 02:02:42.239 --> 02:02:45.760 and the Fix with Todd Martin signature VIP series that you're missing out without a 1865 02:02:45.840 --> 02:02:48.800 VIP membership. So go vip here in twenty twenty two and enjoy all the 1866 02:02:48.840 --> 02:02:54.640 benefits, all the bonus content and the ad free listening experience. PW Torch 1867 02:02:54.680 --> 02:03:04.319 dot com slash Go VIP. I'm really curious when those Reclamania payoffs come in 1868 02:03:04.359 --> 02:03:08.119 and we're about halfway there, you know, it's about ninety days after the 1869 02:03:08.119 --> 02:03:12.159 event. I'm real curious what kind of reaction there is and if WWB. 1870 02:03:12.520 --> 02:03:15.079 You know, they've got this this tuggle war because they want to show profitability 1871 02:03:15.079 --> 02:03:18.159 to keep Wall Street happy and keep the stock price up, and then they 1872 02:03:18.159 --> 02:03:23.199 also have this battle to keep the locker room from rebelling or being disgretled and 1873 02:03:23.279 --> 02:03:25.920 not working hard. You know, Kevin, Ash and Scott all told me 1874 02:03:26.039 --> 02:03:30.319 flat out, and this is just one of the most underreported aspects of the 1875 02:03:30.319 --> 02:03:33.840 turning point in the Monday Night War. But the folkrum the turning point in 1876 02:03:33.880 --> 02:03:39.279 the Monday Night War was when Eric Bischoff fired XPOC. And it wasn't just 1877 02:03:39.359 --> 02:03:43.640 that when XPOC jumped that Oh wow, you know XBOC jumped. I mean, 1878 02:03:43.840 --> 02:03:45.479 even Sean, I'll tell you, hey, come on, let's be 1879 02:03:45.520 --> 02:03:48.159 realistic. He was valuable, but he wasn't enough just single handedly to change 1880 02:03:48.199 --> 02:03:53.199 the course of things. But he did give d X an injection of nWo 1881 02:03:53.279 --> 02:03:57.279 credibility. DX with Shawn Michaels went from being kind of zany and kind of 1882 02:03:57.279 --> 02:03:59.920 goofy to having more of an edge with the New Age out Laws and x 1883 02:04:00.159 --> 02:04:03.239 PAK in China and and Triple H. Course still as a leader. But 1884 02:04:03.520 --> 02:04:08.399 what happened was is when that happened, all the ratings and everything changed. 1885 02:04:08.439 --> 02:04:11.760 It was But what I found out in interviewing Holland Nash, and there's a 1886 02:04:11.800 --> 02:04:17.760 point to all this, is they both told me they stopped doing anything to 1887 02:04:17.840 --> 02:04:21.840 the letter of the law extra that they had to do because they felt that 1888 02:04:21.920 --> 02:04:29.199 their friend Sean Waltman was treated needlessly and excessively disrespectfully by Eric Bischoff in the 1889 02:04:29.239 --> 02:04:34.479 way that he was fired and discarded as frustration with Barry Bloom's negotiation tactics. 1890 02:04:34.520 --> 02:04:38.319 That's Eric's story. Hallan, Nash, and Waltman have all said they think 1891 02:04:38.319 --> 02:04:41.640 it had to do with Halla Nash creating trouble and it was Eric's way to 1892 02:04:41.640 --> 02:04:43.560 get back at him. It might have been a combination of those things. 1893 02:04:43.600 --> 02:04:45.960 They all might remember differently, But the point is is Hall and Nash had 1894 02:04:46.000 --> 02:04:49.119 power in that locker room, and they decided, and they've admitted to this, 1895 02:04:49.399 --> 02:04:54.279 that they were going to do only exactly what they contractually had to once 1896 02:04:54.520 --> 02:04:58.800 Eric treated their friend Sean Waltman that way, and it was a complete turning 1897 02:04:58.840 --> 02:05:02.479 point in when they stopped cooperating. That was a turning point in the locker 1898 02:05:02.560 --> 02:05:09.279 room doing anything to help the company succeed, and it reverberated throute and WW 1899 02:05:09.359 --> 02:05:12.840 fell apart afterwards. Then Holla Nash had the power in the smarts to really 1900 02:05:12.920 --> 02:05:15.600 affect things morale in the direction things. So my point is is when these 1901 02:05:15.600 --> 02:05:20.840 WrestleMania paydays come, WWE, if it looks like even with more people watching 1902 02:05:20.840 --> 02:05:25.399 than ever and so much of that network money coming in is because people sign 1903 02:05:25.479 --> 02:05:28.640 up for WrestleMania, not just for ten dollars. They committed to sixty dollars 1904 02:05:28.680 --> 02:05:31.720 when they signed up explicitly to get WrestleMania. The rest is just bonus. 1905 02:05:32.279 --> 02:05:38.720 So I wonder if those paychecks come in bob way below expectations or somewhat below 1906 02:05:38.760 --> 02:05:43.880 expectations, could WW end up paying a big price in terms of the wrestlers 1907 02:05:44.319 --> 02:05:47.439 kind of not feeling like they're part of the family and the company and working 1908 02:05:47.439 --> 02:05:54.000 hard for a mission or a purpose anymore, but kind of working against the 1909 02:05:54.039 --> 02:05:59.960 system as much as they can get away with. You know, it's fun 1910 02:06:00.199 --> 02:06:05.319 because like Hall and Nash, they were in the position where they could get 1911 02:06:05.359 --> 02:06:09.800 away with that, you know, because they were you know, they were 1912 02:06:09.840 --> 02:06:14.079 a draw, they were in the money. Yeah, exactly so, And 1913 02:06:14.159 --> 02:06:19.000 a lot of guys aren't in the position that they were in. So what 1914 02:06:19.039 --> 02:06:25.800 I'm trying to say is, if guys are gonna cut you know, cut 1915 02:06:25.840 --> 02:06:30.159 back and slow down and not put out like they're doing now, Vince is 1916 02:06:30.199 --> 02:06:34.800 the kind of person if you don't like it, I'll find somebody else to 1917 02:06:34.840 --> 02:06:40.680 take your spot. But he's going to take care of He's gonna take care 1918 02:06:40.680 --> 02:06:43.680 of John, he's gonna take care of Undertaker, he's gonna take care of 1919 02:06:43.720 --> 02:06:45.239 Brock, he's gonna take care of Hunter. Of course, he's going to 1920 02:06:45.279 --> 02:06:53.840 take care of that core group that you know runs the show. He's going 1921 02:06:53.920 --> 02:06:59.560 to take care of those guys. But as far as anybody else, I 1922 02:07:00.119 --> 02:07:02.920 really can see man saying if you don't like it, and if you're not 1923 02:07:02.960 --> 02:07:06.239 going to put out one hundred percent for me, I will find somebody else 1924 02:07:06.279 --> 02:07:10.600 to take your place. I really can see that. I do too. 1925 02:07:10.640 --> 02:07:15.720 I think it would almost have to be like not obvious to anybody, you 1926 02:07:15.760 --> 02:07:18.800 know. It would have to be something where you know, Vince couldn't pinpoint 1927 02:07:18.800 --> 02:07:21.760 that it was happening, but there would be this, you know, with 1928 02:07:21.880 --> 02:07:25.840 any one or two or three guys where clearly they just started dogging it or 1929 02:07:25.880 --> 02:07:28.279 showing up late. I don't mean that, but I sort of mean just 1930 02:07:28.880 --> 02:07:33.279 morale wise. I think even if he couldn't pinpoint exactly what was happening, 1931 02:07:33.800 --> 02:07:38.760 that there would just be this deflation of that sense that we're all in it 1932 02:07:38.800 --> 02:07:42.800 together and that we're just getting screwed over. And I don't know, it'd 1933 02:07:42.840 --> 02:07:45.840 be intangible things, Bob, that you know, on the big shows, 1934 02:07:45.880 --> 02:07:47.960 maybe some of the guys aren't having those three and a half to four and 1935 02:07:48.000 --> 02:07:51.399 a half star efforts, you know, and by that you can say a 1936 02:07:51.439 --> 02:07:54.920 star rating doesn't matter or not. But what I mean is those matches that 1937 02:07:54.960 --> 02:07:58.399 people remember that are epic, that get the crowd into it and you just 1938 02:07:58.439 --> 02:08:01.560 go these wrestlers gave it, they're all. We've seen wrestlers who haven't given 1939 02:08:01.560 --> 02:08:03.359 it. They're all. But you just thought, well, you know, 1940 02:08:03.840 --> 02:08:07.680 it just was an off night. I could see guys having more quote off 1941 02:08:07.800 --> 02:08:11.640 nights. In other words, they have too much pride. That's not gonna 1942 02:08:11.680 --> 02:08:16.199 happen. I'll tell you that right now. They have too much pride because 1943 02:08:16.520 --> 02:08:18.840 you know, despite how I felt a lot of times, I still went 1944 02:08:18.880 --> 02:08:22.960 out there and gave one hundred percent. You know, Not every night was, 1945 02:08:24.359 --> 02:08:26.119 you know, a five star matched. Not every night was, because 1946 02:08:26.119 --> 02:08:30.399 it depends on how you feel as far as your body wise, you know, 1947 02:08:31.000 --> 02:08:35.319 and how much resc you've had and stuff like that. But those guys 1948 02:08:35.760 --> 02:08:39.000 have too much pride. They will wrestle for free on TV, you know, 1949 02:08:39.039 --> 02:08:45.039 because guys are wanting to get to where John Cena is and it doesn't 1950 02:08:45.079 --> 02:08:48.600 matter if you pay them or not. They will. They will stick around 1951 02:08:48.720 --> 02:08:52.199 and bust their ass. I promise you they will. Vince can tell them, 1952 02:08:52.359 --> 02:08:56.000 guess what, You're not going to get any money from the WW network 1953 02:08:56.119 --> 02:09:00.000 because that's just the way it works. And they'll be like, oh, 1954 02:09:00.000 --> 02:09:03.800 okay, let's get back to work. Yeah, that's the way it's gonna 1955 02:09:03.840 --> 02:09:07.399 be. All right, Let's let me talk about another thing I jotted down 1956 02:09:07.399 --> 02:09:09.760 here, and that's baby faces and heels. We've seen Wade Barrett as a 1957 02:09:09.800 --> 02:09:13.800 heel getting huge pops. He's got cool music, he watched out, he's 1958 02:09:13.800 --> 02:09:18.920 got his shoulders back, his head up, cocky attitude, and he just 1959 02:09:18.960 --> 02:09:20.000 looks like he's there to have a good time and kick some masks. And 1960 02:09:20.039 --> 02:09:24.119 it's everything that I've liked about Wade Barrett that I've seen in him as a 1961 02:09:24.439 --> 02:09:28.039 potential top guy. And this bad news Barren thing is kind of catching on. 1962 02:09:28.119 --> 02:09:31.920 But the fans like it. But he's supposed to be a heel and 1963 02:09:31.960 --> 02:09:35.560 their cheer and form. Now this happens historically. George Shire, wrestling historian, 1964 02:09:35.920 --> 02:09:39.359 talked about this and asked people, you torch a article that we put 1965 02:09:39.399 --> 02:09:43.520 up last week where you know that happened with all Cogan. You know they 1966 02:09:43.520 --> 02:09:45.880 brought a w a Vernunny, brought him as a heel. The fans cheer 1967 02:09:45.960 --> 02:09:48.600 to me turned baby face. That happens. But what we're also seeing Bob 1968 02:09:48.840 --> 02:09:52.159 lately is a rebellion. I don't know if rebellion is a word, but 1969 02:09:52.199 --> 02:09:56.680 apathy towards a lot of babyfaces who deserve better, or rejection of them. 1970 02:09:56.960 --> 02:10:01.600 Alex Riley on the ww ME network, the lead it was on one of 1971 02:10:01.640 --> 02:10:05.640 the pregame shows, was fitting there with a straight face, no sense of 1972 02:10:05.760 --> 02:10:11.439 what he was saying wrong said to I think it was to Ryebeck, who 1973 02:10:11.560 --> 02:10:13.039 was on the panel or being interviewed on the panel. He says, well, 1974 02:10:13.039 --> 02:10:16.479 the number one goal if at WWE, Sports entertainer or superstar is to 1975 02:10:16.479 --> 02:10:20.720 get a crowd reaction. And I thought to myself, you know, that's 1976 02:10:20.760 --> 02:10:24.520 a good thing if you're Arn Anderson backstage with a guy to go, you 1977 02:10:24.560 --> 02:10:26.239 know, to you know, some young wrestler, you know, Damian Sando, 1978 02:10:26.319 --> 02:10:30.000 Hey, your number one jobs get a reaction. But you say that 1979 02:10:30.039 --> 02:10:33.039 on TV, on TV, the number one job of a wrestler is to 1980 02:10:33.159 --> 02:10:37.880 win matches, And I just I think that like that, there's something lost 1981 02:10:37.920 --> 02:10:41.800 in the way that wrestling is being presented. And Jim Ross and I talked 1982 02:10:41.800 --> 02:10:46.960 about this last week about the fundamentals. If heels are cheating to win, 1983 02:10:46.560 --> 02:10:50.520 but what matters is getting a reaction, the fans are going to cheer them. 1984 02:10:50.560 --> 02:10:54.199 If that's the culture that's passed on to the fans, and I just 1985 02:10:54.199 --> 02:10:56.960 want you to kind of comment on that. Did you see the kind of 1986 02:10:56.039 --> 02:11:00.960 a change in the industry from in Smoky Mount Wrestling all the way through to 1987 02:11:01.000 --> 02:11:05.199 your last months and years in WWE where you saw a younger wrestlers stop thinking 1988 02:11:05.239 --> 02:11:09.319 about their job as a heel was to get booed and their job as a 1989 02:11:09.359 --> 02:11:11.000 baby faces to get cheered, and to start to think, well, my 1990 02:11:11.079 --> 02:11:15.720 job is to get a this is awesome chant or a holy shit chant or 1991 02:11:15.920 --> 02:11:18.199 you know, as a heel, get a pop because that means I'm popular, 1992 02:11:18.279 --> 02:11:20.359 like the nWo. Did you see that change during your decades in wrestling? 1993 02:11:22.960 --> 02:11:26.079 You know? You know? Well, I mean yeah I did. 1994 02:11:26.479 --> 02:11:30.800 I did. I saw a lot of it change. And I think the 1995 02:11:30.880 --> 02:11:37.119 reason is is because it's not so much you're you're going out there you're thinking 1996 02:11:37.119 --> 02:11:41.560 I'm gonna get a pop. I think it's just your character being your character. 1997 02:11:43.199 --> 02:11:46.399 I really do. I don't think they purposely go out there and say 1998 02:11:46.600 --> 02:11:50.119 I'm gonna get a pop and get cheered. I really don't think they do 1999 02:11:50.239 --> 02:11:52.840 that, you know, because their job is to get heat. So but 2000 02:11:54.000 --> 02:11:56.479 I think on the other on the other the flip side of the coin, 2001 02:11:56.680 --> 02:12:01.800 is a lot of the heels coming up or and I have to admit, 2002 02:12:01.960 --> 02:12:05.600 I think that it's pretty damn cool gimmick, like the Wyats, you know, 2003 02:12:05.880 --> 02:12:09.319 I just I dig it. I like it, you know, And 2004 02:12:09.359 --> 02:12:15.680 I think that's what it is is it's just such a a you know, 2005 02:12:16.000 --> 02:12:22.800 a unique and cool gimmick, you know. And like Wade Barrett, I 2006 02:12:22.800 --> 02:12:24.680 don't think Wade Barrett's thinking I'm going to go out there and get a pop. 2007 02:12:24.880 --> 02:12:28.720 That's not what he His agenda is. His agenda is to go out 2008 02:12:28.720 --> 02:12:31.920 there and get over as a heel, you know, get people to hate 2009 02:12:31.960 --> 02:12:33.640 him. I know, he's not going out there thinking, Okay, how 2010 02:12:33.640 --> 02:12:37.960 can I get the people to cheer me? You know. And I think 2011 02:12:37.000 --> 02:12:43.439 it's a lot of it's accidental because you know, they're they're they're creating a 2012 02:12:43.560 --> 02:12:48.399 character that becomes so interesting and they do they do say some funny things, 2013 02:12:48.880 --> 02:12:54.720 you know, and the people start relating to what they do say. And 2014 02:12:54.800 --> 02:13:00.600 so I think that's how it's evolving to where people are starting to cheer for 2015 02:13:00.640 --> 02:13:03.960 the bad guy. It's not so much because they are cheating or anything like 2016 02:13:03.039 --> 02:13:07.760 that, or they're you know, being too edgy or anything. I think 2017 02:13:07.760 --> 02:13:11.399 it's because a lot of times it's their character and the things they say and 2018 02:13:11.439 --> 02:13:15.000 the things that they do, you know, are actually pretty damn cool, 2019 02:13:15.159 --> 02:13:18.039 you know, And like I said, like the Wyatt family, I mean, 2020 02:13:18.079 --> 02:13:20.800 how unique is that? I think? I like that gimmick. I 2021 02:13:20.800 --> 02:13:24.199 mean, and the promos are so good. How can you not cheer for 2022 02:13:24.279 --> 02:13:30.239 the guy? And it's almost like you have to cheer for him because his 2023 02:13:30.319 --> 02:13:33.680 promos are so good, you know, almost in a sense, you know, 2024 02:13:33.800 --> 02:13:39.079 you know, it's it's I must I'm out of I guess I'm out 2025 02:13:39.119 --> 02:13:43.920 of touch with it because I almost don't see you know, it's them. 2026 02:13:43.920 --> 02:13:50.079 They're doing their job basically, but it's it's almost it's it's almost backfiring on 2027 02:13:50.159 --> 02:13:54.840 them because they're they're actually getting over as a baby face when they're supposed to 2028 02:13:54.880 --> 02:13:58.760 be getting over as a heel. And that's that's the challenge, you know, 2029 02:13:58.920 --> 02:14:03.680 is I don't think wrestling works particularly well as a genre when fans aren't 2030 02:14:03.720 --> 02:14:11.119 paying money to see somebody who they have a reason to like and respect beat 2031 02:14:11.199 --> 02:14:16.039 somebody who they are given a reason to not like and not respect. And 2032 02:14:16.439 --> 02:14:20.279 it isn't. Oh, it's hard in this era because everybody it's about shades 2033 02:14:20.319 --> 02:14:22.800 of gray and rebellion and all that. Whatever it is that fans today, 2034 02:14:22.920 --> 02:14:28.479 your target audience likes. You need to tout those You need to tout those 2035 02:14:28.560 --> 02:14:33.159 traits in your wrestlers who are cast as babyfaces and the one, and there's 2036 02:14:33.239 --> 02:14:37.399 things we don't like. Nobody wants to be have their house broken into and 2037 02:14:37.439 --> 02:14:41.039 have someone and take your new television that you just bought and steal it from 2038 02:14:41.079 --> 02:14:46.039 you. And that's what announcers need to get over that heels are doing when 2039 02:14:46.079 --> 02:14:48.039 heels cheat to win, is they need to get back to that. And 2040 02:14:48.079 --> 02:14:50.720 Cornett was Jim Cornette was great about this and it was like, you know, 2041 02:14:50.720 --> 02:14:52.840 it's like, oh, it's old school. No, it's common sense 2042 02:14:52.880 --> 02:14:56.199 and timeless. You want your announced team to say, wait a second. 2043 02:14:56.199 --> 02:15:01.680 When a heel cheats, it's like stealing your wallet. It's like stealing your 2044 02:15:01.680 --> 02:15:05.159 cards, like breaking into your house and stealing something. When a heel cheats, 2045 02:15:05.199 --> 02:15:09.520 he's breaking the rules and he's getting a winning pay day by cheating. 2046 02:15:09.560 --> 02:15:13.720 That is stealing money from a babyface. And we nobody wants to encourage cheating 2047 02:15:13.720 --> 02:15:18.159 because you could be the next victim. That mentality is completely lost and I 2048 02:15:18.680 --> 02:15:22.039 it's frustrating for me as a view were because Bray Wyatt, if it's a 2049 02:15:22.079 --> 02:15:24.840 cool gimmick, should be a babyface, or he should augment the gimmick so 2050 02:15:24.960 --> 02:15:28.319 that there's even as cool as it is, there's things that that anger people 2051 02:15:28.319 --> 02:15:31.039 about the way he goes about winning. But and it's what I wrote about 2052 02:15:31.039 --> 02:15:33.479 the news art this week. It's kind of multi step, but part of 2053 02:15:33.560 --> 02:15:37.359 it is you need to have the announcers selling it, and you need to 2054 02:15:37.399 --> 02:15:41.960 have a babyface authority figure enforcing it, and that whole symbiotic relationship is missing 2055 02:15:43.039 --> 02:15:52.119 right now. Every Sunday night, catch Wrestling Night in America on PW Torchdailycast 2056 02:15:52.119 --> 02:15:56.079 dot Com, hosted by me PW Torch calumnist Greg Parks. Each week, 2057 02:15:56.119 --> 02:16:00.239 I'll welcome a co host from the Torch family to discuss the big shows pro 2058 02:16:00.279 --> 02:16:03.159 wrestling, taking your calls and emails. You can listen live most week's beginning 2059 02:16:03.159 --> 02:16:07.199 at eight pm Eastern On Sunday nights with a WWE or Impact pay per view, 2060 02:16:07.279 --> 02:16:09.760 we go on the air at the conclusion of that pay per view, 2061 02:16:09.880 --> 02:16:13.840 you can listen live, but of course the full show is available for download 2062 02:16:13.880 --> 02:16:18.479 on demand anytime shortly after it airs. Visit PW Torchdailycast dot com and click 2063 02:16:18.520 --> 02:16:22.079 the live stream link to find the next scheduled live show link. Search PW 2064 02:16:22.079 --> 02:16:26.439 torch and Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to subscribe Wrestling Night in America every 2065 02:16:26.520 --> 02:16:41.840 Sunday, PW Torchdailycast dot com. Yeah, and see, that's the point 2066 02:16:41.920 --> 02:16:46.479 that I was going to bring up is the announcers have to get that point 2067 02:16:46.479 --> 02:16:50.719 across. Hey, this isn't right, you know. They Like I said, 2068 02:16:50.719 --> 02:16:54.559 it takes everybody, you know, and the announcers are a vital part 2069 02:16:54.680 --> 02:17:01.079 of making sure that they get the fact that the heel is in the wrong, 2070 02:17:01.200 --> 02:17:05.639 that he's doing wrong. And I've seen too many times over where Bradshaw 2071 02:17:05.840 --> 02:17:09.159 laugh about something that Wade Barrett did or Bray Wyatt did or you know, 2072 02:17:09.319 --> 02:17:13.440 and they laugh about it and carry on about it like it's it's a funny 2073 02:17:13.479 --> 02:17:18.040 thing and it shouldn't be like that, you know. And another and another 2074 02:17:18.159 --> 02:17:22.319 reason too, is like it all depends on who you put that heel in 2075 02:17:22.360 --> 02:17:24.799 there with. You know, if you put that heel in there with somebody 2076 02:17:24.840 --> 02:17:30.559 that is supposed to be a babyface, and that's like a mid card or 2077 02:17:30.639 --> 02:17:33.079 lower of course, the people aren't gonna care about that baby face. They're 2078 02:17:33.120 --> 02:17:37.040 gonna care, you know. They they're gonna cheer the heel, you know, 2079 02:17:37.200 --> 02:17:41.200 especially when they've seen that baby face when he comes out and gets beat 2080 02:17:41.559 --> 02:17:46.680 week in and week out. You know. And but I and I you 2081 02:17:46.719 --> 02:17:52.040 know, it's it's a whole combination of things too. Is is the reason 2082 02:17:52.120 --> 02:17:58.280 why people are starting to you know, like the like the heels more now. 2083 02:17:58.799 --> 02:18:03.200 It's just a combination of things that are adding up to where and and 2084 02:18:03.239 --> 02:18:05.559 they're they're not stopping it. They need to. They need to stop it. 2085 02:18:05.600 --> 02:18:09.520 I think if they don't want those heels to be cheered, right, 2086 02:18:11.719 --> 02:18:16.440 you know. And the announcers, that's the announcers are a huge contributor to 2087 02:18:16.479 --> 02:18:22.559 that problem. I really believe that they are. I agree. I mean, 2088 02:18:22.600 --> 02:18:26.520 I don't have a problem with like Jesse Ventura was an effective heal announcer 2089 02:18:26.000 --> 02:18:31.280 because he was consistent. He had a constitution which was get away with whatever 2090 02:18:31.319 --> 02:18:35.319 you can. And to me, like gorillaan Soon was a good and Vincent 2091 02:18:35.360 --> 02:18:39.520 Mann were good at countering that. They were strong personalities and they would get 2092 02:18:39.520 --> 02:18:43.000 across that idea of hey wait a second, you know, they didn't take 2093 02:18:43.000 --> 02:18:45.680 exactly this, but hey, wait a second, Jessie, would you like 2094 02:18:45.760 --> 02:18:50.280 it if somebody distracted you and then that allows somebody to steal something from you 2095 02:18:50.319 --> 02:18:52.799 while you were distracted? You know, It's like, that's nobody. Nobody 2096 02:18:52.799 --> 02:18:58.360 wants that. People want. People want to earn what they have through an 2097 02:18:58.360 --> 02:19:01.360 honest living and then keep what they buy and what they have, not have 2098 02:19:01.440 --> 02:19:05.520 someone cheat to steal it from you. And that's just that is a core 2099 02:19:05.639 --> 02:19:09.360 value that every human being has, and wrestling's lost touch with tapping into that 2100 02:19:09.360 --> 02:19:11.559 because I think the as Steve Boston talks about on his podcast, the working 2101 02:19:11.639 --> 02:19:16.159 man out there should be cheering for the person who represents their values, and 2102 02:19:16.239 --> 02:19:20.719 wrestling has complete with WWE and DNA have lost that so much, and I 2103 02:19:20.719 --> 02:19:24.559 think it's one of the reasons it's harder to draw money in this industry. 2104 02:19:24.600 --> 02:19:30.079 They're making it needlessly harder because they aren't establishing that with the announced grew. 2105 02:19:30.239 --> 02:19:33.000 I'm fine with JBL being a heel as long as Michael Cold and Jerry Lawler 2106 02:19:33.040 --> 02:19:35.760 stand up to him and say, well, obvious, I'm fine with Taz 2107 02:19:35.840 --> 02:19:37.840 cheering for the heels consistently, as long as he's consistent as long as Mike 2108 02:19:37.840 --> 02:19:41.479 Tiney stands up. But we don't get that, And I think that's it's 2109 02:19:41.520 --> 02:19:45.000 not fair for the babyfaces who are trying to get sell merchandise and get babyface 2110 02:19:45.440 --> 02:19:50.120 cheers to have the announcing be so out of whack, right, I agree, 2111 02:19:50.719 --> 02:19:54.159 because you've got to have that. You've got to have that heel announcer 2112 02:19:54.239 --> 02:19:58.040 up there, because you it just creates a dynamic, you know, within 2113 02:19:58.120 --> 02:20:01.920 the announcers. But you also, like you said, you have to have 2114 02:20:01.959 --> 02:20:05.440 that baby face announcer. You know, you can't have that baby face announcer 2115 02:20:05.479 --> 02:20:11.120 agreeing with the heel and you know, and Michael Cole, I think he's 2116 02:20:11.159 --> 02:20:16.040 he's he agrees with you know, Lawler and and Bradshaw too much. Yes, 2117 02:20:18.079 --> 02:20:20.600 I agree, you know, he kind of plays along within and it 2118 02:20:20.799 --> 02:20:26.040 just it makes the baby makes the heel too cool almost yea. You know, 2119 02:20:26.719 --> 02:20:30.319 So you know, it's just the way everything's evolving. I guess. 2120 02:20:30.479 --> 02:20:33.639 I guess because you know it. It's almost like, Okay, this is 2121 02:20:33.760 --> 02:20:37.360 entertainment, so it doesn't matter anymore. It's getting to that point. As 2122 02:20:37.399 --> 02:20:41.319 long as the fans are entertained, that's all they care about. But to 2123 02:20:41.360 --> 02:20:46.360 me, What's what is more entertaining than watching a football game where there's a 2124 02:20:46.360 --> 02:20:50.399 home team and an away team. I mean, I'll watch Dallas against New 2125 02:20:50.479 --> 02:20:52.000 York, I guess, but I don't really care who wins. I don't 2126 02:20:52.040 --> 02:20:56.000 like either of the teams. You know. I'll watch Jacksonville against Denver, 2127 02:20:56.079 --> 02:20:58.600 and I guess I kind of like Denver better because I think their fans are 2128 02:20:58.600 --> 02:21:01.239 more detic, you know what. I can rationalize, but it's kind of 2129 02:21:01.520 --> 02:21:05.479 apathy. But if it's a really good game, I'll watch and I'm entertained. 2130 02:21:05.799 --> 02:21:09.559 But you know what's better than an entertaining football game between two teams where 2131 02:21:09.559 --> 02:21:13.559 I don't care who wins. A football game where the home team wins no 2132 02:21:13.600 --> 02:21:16.239 matter how boring it is, you know what I mean. Like, if 2133 02:21:16.280 --> 02:21:20.840 the Vikings win and it's a grinded out seven to three game against the Green 2134 02:21:20.879 --> 02:21:24.159 Bay Packers, I'm happy and I will pay money to see the rematch to 2135 02:21:24.159 --> 02:21:28.719 see my Vikings win again. And I think wrestling has fooled themselves into thinking 2136 02:21:28.760 --> 02:21:35.479 they're in the entertainment business. What they're in the business of is giving people 2137 02:21:35.719 --> 02:21:41.040 a victory that they are thirsting for and craving by having them invest in wanting 2138 02:21:41.040 --> 02:21:43.479 to see one guy win and another guy lose. And to me, there's 2139 02:21:43.559 --> 02:21:48.280 way more money in that than juggling. I don't go pay to see juggling, 2140 02:21:48.280 --> 02:21:52.760 as entertaining as it might be, because I don't care about who wins 2141 02:21:52.799 --> 02:21:56.959 in a juggling contest. I have no stake in it. And so that's 2142 02:21:56.040 --> 02:21:58.479 my thing. And I think they are so hung up on this quote sports 2143 02:21:58.559 --> 02:22:01.280 entertainment thing, they've lost sight of the fact that they should be in the 2144 02:22:01.319 --> 02:22:05.520 business of home team and away team babyfaces and heels right now. And see 2145 02:22:05.520 --> 02:22:09.079 another thing too, is is I think the baby face should be the one 2146 02:22:09.079 --> 02:22:13.719 that interacts with the crowd more so than the heel, like the heel, 2147 02:22:15.079 --> 02:22:20.440 because the heel is starting to become you know, the crowd is starting to 2148 02:22:20.479 --> 02:22:24.079 interact with the heel, and that shouldn't happen because that gives the fan at 2149 02:22:24.159 --> 02:22:26.840 tendency to like that guy, you know, And it's you got to draw 2150 02:22:26.879 --> 02:22:31.399 a fine line of interacting with the crowd and not if you know what I'm 2151 02:22:31.399 --> 02:22:35.520 saying, You're a fine line there, because you've got to maintain that. 2152 02:22:35.639 --> 02:22:39.399 Hey, just remember I'm the bad guy here. I'm the one that you 2153 02:22:39.440 --> 02:22:43.760 know, you shouldn't be cheering for me, you know, And I think 2154 02:22:45.280 --> 02:22:50.719 they lose sight of that simply because you know, we're told to interact with 2155 02:22:50.719 --> 02:22:54.120 the crowd. You know, That's that's what helps gets you over because people 2156 02:22:54.159 --> 02:22:58.559 want to connect with you. And the heel is connecting so well with that, 2157 02:22:58.719 --> 02:23:03.639 saying that fan is starting to like them. So you have to draw 2158 02:23:03.680 --> 02:23:09.559 a fine line of what how far is too far to go to interact with 2159 02:23:09.600 --> 02:23:11.879 that fan? You see what I'm saying. I do, And I think 2160 02:23:11.879 --> 02:23:15.159 that's really well put too. That is like the guy that's you know, 2161 02:23:15.159 --> 02:23:16.959 we talked about Bully Ray interacting with the crowd. And as much as it's 2162 02:23:18.000 --> 02:23:20.000 like, oh I'm just getting heat, I'm you know, no, the 2163 02:23:20.040 --> 02:23:24.559 crowd loves you because you're paying attention to them, right, You're validating them. 2164 02:23:24.639 --> 02:23:28.520 Yeah, yeah, because you And that's and I learned. It took 2165 02:23:28.559 --> 02:23:31.479 me a while to learn, Hey, you have to interact with the crowd 2166 02:23:31.520 --> 02:23:33.399 to get them to like you. It took me a long time to learn 2167 02:23:33.479 --> 02:23:39.280 that. And and that and that's what's going on is is you know, 2168 02:23:39.360 --> 02:23:43.200 and it's almost addicting too, because once you interact with that crowd and they 2169 02:23:43.280 --> 02:23:48.079 start and you start feeling the energy from them. It's very addicting, you 2170 02:23:48.120 --> 02:23:52.639 know, and you want more and it almost fuels the fire in that heel 2171 02:23:52.840 --> 02:23:58.440 to get over more as a heel slash babyface, you know. And then 2172 02:23:58.479 --> 02:24:03.520 you got to aw that fine line to where Okay, I've got I can 2173 02:24:03.559 --> 02:24:07.559 only go so far because because if you go too far, obviously they're gonna 2174 02:24:07.639 --> 02:24:11.520 like you, you know, and you don't want that, and they're losing 2175 02:24:11.600 --> 02:24:15.479 sight of that about you have time just for some rapid fire emails from two 2176 02:24:15.559 --> 02:24:18.520 or three people and then we can wrap up. Okay, okay, cool 2177 02:24:18.799 --> 02:24:22.559 uh BFP member Chris when you and Crash takes against Fabulous Move and May Young 2178 02:24:22.600 --> 02:24:24.479 in nineteen ninety nine on SmackDown, how did you decide who would take the 2179 02:24:24.520 --> 02:24:30.920 Bronco buster in the corner? From May Young? Just it's just whoever wanted 2180 02:24:30.920 --> 02:24:35.280 to take it. It didn't matter, you know, we just it wasn't 2181 02:24:35.280 --> 02:24:37.399 one of those things where no you take it, no I'm or I'm gonna 2182 02:24:37.399 --> 02:24:41.639 take it or whatever, you know, just if one person takes it one 2183 02:24:41.760 --> 02:24:46.079 night, next the person the next person takes it the next night. It 2184 02:24:46.239 --> 02:24:50.159 was never, you know, we never it was never one of those deals 2185 02:24:50.159 --> 02:24:52.799 but I'm not taking that, you know. It was never like that at 2186 02:24:52.840 --> 02:24:54.159 all. And it was never like I told, you know, hey, 2187 02:24:54.239 --> 02:24:56.840 Chris, you're gonna do this, You're gonna take this because I'm not doing 2188 02:24:58.040 --> 02:25:00.879 it. Was never like that. It was just one of those things that 2189 02:25:01.040 --> 02:25:03.200 were Okay, well you can do it to me, you know, and 2190 02:25:03.239 --> 02:25:07.600 it just it was there was never a deciding moment to where who was gonna 2191 02:25:07.639 --> 02:25:13.760 take it? You know, so all right, very good. He also 2192 02:25:13.760 --> 02:25:18.200 wants to know you hardcore holy were off camera when the Bronco Buster took place. 2193 02:25:18.559 --> 02:25:20.799 Were you able to keep a straight face, especially when May Young botched 2194 02:25:20.920 --> 02:25:24.719 the landing? I could never keep a straight face with those two women. 2195 02:25:24.920 --> 02:25:28.600 I never did. I never did, Yeah, because it was, you 2196 02:25:28.639 --> 02:25:33.079 know, it was just they were they were so fun to be around. 2197 02:25:33.120 --> 02:25:37.600 They made your job fun. You looked forward when you when you knew when 2198 02:25:37.600 --> 02:25:41.360 you found out you were working with him that night, you looked forward to 2199 02:25:41.399 --> 02:25:45.680 it because it was just it was it was almost like you could just go 2200 02:25:45.719 --> 02:25:48.559 out there and just relax and not worry about anything because no matter what happens 2201 02:25:48.639 --> 02:25:52.159 is going to be good and it's gonna be fun. You know, and 2202 02:25:52.360 --> 02:25:56.040 it was I was always it was always hard for me to keep a straight 2203 02:25:56.040 --> 02:26:00.920 face. It really was. Chris out of Oklao the City says, Papa 2204 02:26:01.000 --> 02:26:03.159 been a big fan of yours for a long while and wanted to ask about 2205 02:26:03.239 --> 02:26:05.559 this question regarding tough Enough. It seems that wwe had some great talents come 2206 02:26:05.559 --> 02:26:09.079 in, like maybe Jackie Gata and a few others for small successes, but 2207 02:26:09.360 --> 02:26:13.239 none of them ever lasted. Why do you think that is? And can 2208 02:26:13.879 --> 02:26:18.319 a new tough Enough do something differently to assure that the stars last? You 2209 02:26:18.360 --> 02:26:26.799 know, I just I really think it's it. It boils down to character 2210 02:26:26.840 --> 02:26:33.680 development, you know it? And how well? Because to me, a 2211 02:26:33.719 --> 02:26:39.639 lot of them they just didn't seem to get it, or they just I 2212 02:26:39.680 --> 02:26:43.719 thought they were okay, but a lot of them I just didn't think had 2213 02:26:43.760 --> 02:26:46.360 what it took. And I just think a lot of it was their character 2214 02:26:46.440 --> 02:26:50.920 development that was detrimental to them, because I don't think they felt comfortable with 2215 02:26:50.959 --> 02:26:54.239 what they were doing, a lot of them, I don't know. I 2216 02:26:54.559 --> 02:26:58.520 really can't say for sure why, you know, but I just think it 2217 02:26:58.719 --> 02:27:01.159 had something to do with character development maybe though, why they didn't you know, 2218 02:27:01.239 --> 02:27:05.280 pan out? Yeah, yeah, and is there anything that could be 2219 02:27:05.319 --> 02:27:09.200 done to have a better success rate in terms of those those guys mind something 2220 02:27:09.399 --> 02:27:11.600 works for you, you know, you got to come up with ideas, 2221 02:27:11.600 --> 02:27:16.600 like the whole Sparky Plug thing, you know, like I wasn't comfortable with 2222 02:27:16.680 --> 02:27:18.879 that, you know. And in their defense, as far as the tough 2223 02:27:20.000 --> 02:27:22.959 enough guys, you know, they're going to take what they're given because they 2224 02:27:22.959 --> 02:27:26.600 don't know to give ideas or anything like that because they're new, so they 2225 02:27:26.600 --> 02:27:31.680 don't know really anything. They aren't taught much at first, you know, 2226 02:27:31.840 --> 02:27:35.319 because when you're there, you're just havey. You're just glad to be there, 2227 02:27:35.360 --> 02:27:37.920 and you just keep your mouth shut and you do what you're told to 2228 02:27:37.920 --> 02:27:41.000 do, you know, because you don't want to create any ways. And 2229 02:27:41.040 --> 02:27:43.920 they I don't think that they had any idea. So hey, let's try 2230 02:27:43.959 --> 02:27:48.200 this with me and maybe in work or I would do better as this type 2231 02:27:48.200 --> 02:27:52.040 of character or you know, I don't think they felt like they had any 2232 02:27:52.079 --> 02:27:56.000 input. You know. It's like my Sparky Plug character. The first six 2233 02:27:56.079 --> 02:28:00.600 months I was there, I you know, I was happy to be there, 2234 02:28:00.639 --> 02:28:03.479 but I hated that character and I was scared to say anything about it 2235 02:28:03.479 --> 02:28:07.760 because I didn't want to lose my job. You know, I'm grateful for 2236 02:28:07.840 --> 02:28:09.840 getting a job there, and it just got to the point where I had 2237 02:28:09.879 --> 02:28:13.639 to say something and and blow and behold. Vince, you know, had 2238 02:28:13.680 --> 02:28:16.239 more respect for me coming to him and saying, hey, you know, 2239 02:28:16.280 --> 02:28:20.520 I'm uncomfortable being this guy. Can we do something about it? And I 2240 02:28:20.559 --> 02:28:24.680 think that the tough enough people that didn't make it, I think they just 2241 02:28:24.040 --> 02:28:26.959 they don't feel like they had a voice, you know, because they don't 2242 02:28:28.000 --> 02:28:31.239 know. And I think if they would have felt like they could have said 2243 02:28:31.239 --> 02:28:33.479 something to hey, let's tweak this and do this or whatever, I think 2244 02:28:33.479 --> 02:28:37.920 maybe they'd have had more success some of them. Bob, thank you so 2245 02:28:39.040 --> 02:28:41.639 much. We ran We're in two and a half hours, so we didn't 2246 02:28:41.719 --> 02:28:46.280 end there. But anything for you, man, that's fine. You know, 2247 02:28:46.600 --> 02:28:52.040 you're you're You're you're the best. You You're good at what you do. 2248 02:28:52.200 --> 02:28:56.399 I mean, you you don't stumble, you just go and like I'm 2249 02:28:56.399 --> 02:29:00.520 sitting here thinking I talk over my get tongue tied and things like that, 2250 02:29:00.559 --> 02:29:03.680 and it's like, you're very good at what you do. And I appreciate 2251 02:29:03.760 --> 02:29:07.479 you having me on your show. I really really do. I appreciate it 2252 02:29:07.000 --> 02:29:09.239 very much, Bob. You didn't have to say that, and I appreciate 2253 02:29:09.239 --> 02:29:13.319 it. I stumble plenty, but you make it easy for me not to 2254 02:29:13.360 --> 02:29:16.799 stumble. As a great guy good, I'm amazed. I'm amazed at how 2255 02:29:16.799 --> 02:29:20.280 good you are. I mean you are. I'm telling you, Wade, 2256 02:29:20.280 --> 02:29:22.760 I've been around a lot. I'm not kissing your ass or licking your ass 2257 02:29:22.799 --> 02:29:28.559 or just you know, I'm not because you are. You're good, and 2258 02:29:28.600 --> 02:29:31.000 it's you know, and it's an honor for me to be on your show 2259 02:29:31.079 --> 02:29:35.719 because you want me on your show, and you know, I just feel 2260 02:29:35.840 --> 02:29:39.760 very privileged to be on your show. And I get tongue tied and sometimes 2261 02:29:39.760 --> 02:29:41.079 I lose my train of thought and stuff like that, and I feel like 2262 02:29:41.120 --> 02:29:43.879 I just ramble on and I sit there and I listen to you, and 2263 02:29:43.879 --> 02:29:46.399 I'm like, how does this guy do it? He's so good. But 2264 02:29:46.719 --> 02:29:50.159 anyway, I'm just very honored to be on your show. Well, Bob, 2265 02:29:50.159 --> 02:29:52.680 thank you very much. We'll have you on again as long as you're 2266 02:29:52.719 --> 02:29:56.440 willing. You're a great guest and absolutely absolute pleasure. And the time just 2267 02:29:56.479 --> 02:29:58.520 flew by. You make it. You make it easy. Also, thank 2268 02:29:58.559 --> 02:30:01.959 you. Yep all right, thanks, thank you very much, Waye, 2269 02:30:01.959 --> 02:30:05.040 I appreciate him. Go Vikings go wild. Yes, yeah, all right, 2270 02:30:05.479 --> 02:30:07.840 all right, thank you sir, take care. Thanks vi ip mevers 2271 02:30:07.879 --> 02:30:15.680 your support and for joining us for another excellent vip O here on Interview Friday. 2272 02:30:22.799 --> 02:30:26.920 Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions or comments. That 2273 02:30:26.000 --> 02:30:33.040 email address is Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at 2274 02:30:33.040 --> 02:30:35.719 pw torch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You can follow 2275 02:30:35.799 --> 02:30:41.479 us on Twitter at pw Torch and follow me at the Wade Keller. That's 2276 02:30:41.559 --> 02:30:48.040 at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller. Searching for more great pro wrestling 2277 02:30:48.120 --> 02:30:52.440 talk, then join me Jason Powell host them the free weekly Pro Wrestling Boom 2278 02:30:52.479 --> 02:30:56.159 Podcast. Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from me and my 2279 02:30:56.200 --> 02:31:00.280 team at Pro Wrestling dot Man along with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, 2280 02:31:00.319 --> 02:31:03.319 the Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in the 2281 02:31:03.319 --> 02:31:07.319 pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and all your 2282 02:31:07.319 --> 02:31:13.239 favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at pw boom dot com. Once 2283 02:31:13.280 --> 02:31:18.760 again, that's pw boom dot com. Thanks for listening to our podcast. 2284 02:31:18.799 --> 02:31:22.040 Did you know we also have a website pwtorch dot com daily news updates, 2285 02:31:22.200 --> 02:31:28.000 editorials, and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown and my 2286 02:31:28.200 --> 02:31:31.799 live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW. Create a tab or bookmark 2287 02:31:31.840 --> 02:31:35.879 make it a daily stop. Visit us throughout the day every day to keep 2288 02:31:35.959 --> 02:31:41.840 up on breaking news and more. That's pwtorch dot com. Need an extra 2289 02:31:41.879 --> 02:31:46.840 dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts, will come join me Alan fourrel Over 2290 02:31:46.879 --> 02:31:50.879 in the Progress Paradise at pew torch VIP as we ask on the bright side 2291 02:31:50.920 --> 02:31:54.959 of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and shows from around the 2292 02:31:56.000 --> 02:32:01.159 world, be it US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a 2293 02:32:01.200 --> 02:32:05.079 place for rest ins past in the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical 2294 02:32:05.120 --> 02:32:09.239 shows such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious career of Jusian thunder 2295 02:32:09.360 --> 02:32:13.079 Lighter and Our Eye Was There When shows where our guests will join me to 2296 02:32:13.120 --> 02:32:18.440 talk about a classic bout that they were in attendance for. We love variety 2297 02:32:18.600 --> 02:32:22.200 and you can expect lots of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed PW tors 2298 02:32:22.319 --> 02:32:28.680 VIP subscription information and a list of all the VIP benefits is available at PW 2299 02:32:28.719 --> 02:32:33.079 Torch vip info dot com. And yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with 2300 02:32:33.200 --> 02:32:39.319 popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly 2301 02:32:39.360 --> 02:32:43.680 from our ad free VIP mobile site. See you in the Paradise. One 2302 02:32:43.680 --> 02:32:48.360 way that you can help us sustain our schedule of putting out podcasts throughout the 2303 02:32:48.399 --> 02:32:52.000 week is by giving us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go 2304 02:32:52.040 --> 02:32:54.639 to Apple Podcasts and look for our Weight Keller Prosing podcast and Weight Keller Prossing 2305 02:32:54.680 --> 02:32:58.920 Post show and give us a five star rating. We hope you think we've 2306 02:32:58.959 --> 02:33:03.760 earned that score with our fast turnaround times and our quantity and quality of wrestling 2307 02:33:03.760 --> 02:33:07.479 analysis throughout the week. So take a moment out for us and do us 2308 02:33:07.479 --> 02:33:09.799 favor and give us a five star rating and Apple Podcasts. That helps us 2309 02:33:09.840 --> 02:33:13.319 on search returns and helps us grow. And if you want, you can 2310 02:33:13.319 --> 02:33:16.360 add a few comments about what you like about the programs in the comments section. 2311 02:33:16.520 --> 02:33:24.360 Thank you so much. In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental 2312 02:33:24.399 --> 02:33:30.719 system and ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP podcast NXT 2313 02:33:31.000 --> 02:33:35.440 Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly look at this page in NXT's 2314 02:33:35.479 --> 02:33:41.200 early history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every 2315 02:33:41.239 --> 02:33:45.440 Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track NXT's rising talents 2316 02:33:45.479 --> 02:33:48.879 and why they did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members. 2317 02:33:50.040 --> 02:33:54.440 PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add free access to these shows and 2318 02:33:54.479 --> 02:33:56.719 a ton of other VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain 2319 02:33:56.760 --> 02:34:01.719 access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous week to week 2320 02:34:01.760 --> 02:34:05.600 coverage through our progressing Torch weekly newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, 2321 02:34:05.760 --> 02:34:11.239 along with streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from the nineteen 2322 02:34:11.319 --> 02:34:15.479 nineties, including some of my interviews with wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, 2323 02:34:15.680 --> 02:34:18.600 and also our podcast library dating back to the year two thousand and three. 2324 02:34:18.639 --> 02:34:24.840 There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes with 2325 02:34:24.879 --> 02:34:30.040 a PW Torch VIP membership. Now approaching twenty years of podcasting, Go VIP 2326 02:34:30.200 --> 02:34:33.360 and dive into our post pay per view roundtables are covered with some of your 2327 02:34:33.399 --> 02:34:39.079 favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews, and special format podcasts 2328 02:34:39.239 --> 02:34:43.520 that we've done throughout the years. PW torch dot com slash go VIP. 2329 02:34:43.959 --> 02:34:46.159 We have a streamline signup form and you can pay with PayPal or directly with 2330 02:34:46.200 --> 02:34:50.559 your credit card or debit card. In one or two minutes from right now, 2331 02:34:50.600 --> 02:34:52.719 you can be a VIP member and diving into our library. PW torch 2332 02:34:52.760 --> 02:34:54.360 dot com slash go vip