WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:04.879 Hey everybody, this is Less Striving. Yes, yes I know aka Survivor 2 00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:30.480 Man, and you're listening to Brian on Sasquatch Honist. Be there and welcome 3 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:34.399 back to Sasquatch Ods. Thank you so much for being with us for the 4 00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:37.520 show. It is Friday. I hope you have great week. We have 5 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:40.280 an amazing guest lined up for you. But as always, I want to 6 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:43.799 start by fighting game. If you've had an account here and you'll let's be 7 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:46.240 on the show, shoot me an email. You can get me a Brian 8 00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:50.119 at Paranormalworldproductions dot com. Get head over to the website, check it out, 9 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:54.679 become a member there and help support the show. I got to sit 10 00:00:54.759 --> 00:01:00.520 down and talk to Matt Knapp from the Bigfoot Crossroads podcast, and Matt is 11 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.439 not just a podcast. He has been a researcher and been into bigfoot for 12 00:01:03.879 --> 00:01:08.719 several decades and he's had some really cool experiences, including a couple of sightings 13 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:12.200 of these things. So we get into that and all things bigfoot. I 14 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:17.079 think you're really going to enjoy this conversation. If you don't already listen to 15 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:19.560 Bigfoot Crossroads, check out the link right here in the show notes and go 16 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:23.159 over and listen to Matt show. I think you'll really enjoy it. As 17 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:27.120 you're listening to this right now. I am actually in Ohio for the Ohio 18 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:30.840 Bigfoot Conference. I'm going to be out there hanging out with Cliff Barrickman and 19 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:34.920 signing books on Saturday. So if you're in the area and you want to 20 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:38.120 come by and see us, you don't need a ticket to get into the 21 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:41.400 vendor area, so you can come by and see me. Cliff, Doug 22 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:44.760 Kichek's going to be there, Matt Pruitt's going to be there, Darby Orcut's 23 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:48.519 going to be there. Doctor Jeff Meldram will be there as well as Adam 24 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:52.560 Davies. We have sold quite a few autographed copies of my new book, 25 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:56.280 Sasquatch Unleashed The Truth behind the Legend. You can get those by going to 26 00:01:56.280 --> 00:02:00.359 Paranormalworldproductions dot Com checking out the store right there at the top of the page. 27 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:04.439 Cliff Berckman actually wrote the forward for my book. So Cliff is going 28 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:07.000 to be signing some of those books out there in Ohio with me. So 29 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:09.159 that's going to be a unique opportunity to get both of our signatures on the 30 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:13.680 book at the same time and meet us. Of course, I will be 31 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:16.159 bringing back some of those copies that Cliff's going to sign while I'm out there, 32 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:20.240 and we will be offering those on the website as well. But enough 33 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:22.680 of that. I know you guys are ready to get into it. Matt's 34 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:24.319 on the line, He's ready to go. All that's left for you to 35 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:47.800 do is sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. Welcome our guest 36 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:52.159 to the show. It is Matt from Bigfoot Crossroads. Welcome to the show. 37 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:54.120 Man. Thanks Brian, thanks a lot for having me on. Man, 38 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:58.400 I am glad to have you. We have ran in the same circle 39 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:01.680 for years now. I was actually on the show with you over on Calling 40 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:06.000 All Beings, if I remember correctly, some months back. But this is 41 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:09.080 the first time you and I have officially got together. Let's talk about Sasquatch. 42 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:14.319 What got you interested in it? To begin with? Man Crazy, 43 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:19.759 I actually grew up in what I consider a haunted house. There was a 44 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:23.360 paranormal activity going on before I was ever born. Just being a product of 45 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:30.639 the eighties, the only resources I had growing up for finding information about some 46 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:34.400 of the things I was experiencing were books in the library and at the bookstore 47 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:38.520 and stuff. Back then, they would put a lot of those subjects together. 48 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:42.400 Bigfoot was one of those subjects that you would find in like the paranormal 49 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:47.080 section. I was introduced to Bigfoot that way. And I remember there was 50 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:52.159 what we call here in Oklahoma garage cell. Other people call them rumge cells 51 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:58.120 or yard cells. I found a little paperback book called Bigfoot and NeSSI and 52 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:00.400 half the book was about Bigfoot and the other was about the lock Mess Monster. 53 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:04.039 I picked that up a quarter, I think, and it actually had 54 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:09.479 some of the more famous stories of Bigfoot en counters like Albert Osman and stuff 55 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:14.080 like that. Eight Canyon was in there. I think all those stories just 56 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:18.439 like really captured my imagination. Fast forward to nineteen ninety eight. I get 57 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:23.000 a computer for the first time, and I'm doing an Internet search, and 58 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:26.959 on just one night, I type in Bigfoot and my mind was blown. 59 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:30.199 There was all this information. At least I thought it was a lot of 60 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:33.480 information at the time. Looking back, it was like maybe two or three 61 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:39.800 websites. I found out that people were actually actively going out and looking for 62 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:43.560 this thing. I couldn't believe that it's not just random occurrence, as people 63 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:46.800 go out researching looking for them, trying to track them down, and it 64 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:51.879 led me to, of course, the BFRO website, and at that time 65 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:56.680 you could actually apply to join the BFRO and go on outings with them. 66 00:04:56.680 --> 00:05:00.680 So I did. I remember, I was actually at a friend's house staying 67 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:04.399 the night over there whenever I filled out the application. So the next day 68 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:09.759 I came home and I had a message on my answering machine that tells you 69 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:14.399 how old I am. It was from Matt Moneymaker of the BFRO, wanting 70 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:17.480 to talk to me about my application. My name's Matt. His last name 71 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:21.240 was Moneymaker. So whenever I heard it, I just thought, oh, 72 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:24.879 man, this is just like a scam. No, his last name is 73 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:28.959 really Moneymaker. So I just erased the message and blew it off. And 74 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:31.759 then a little while later, after doing a little bit more digging on the 75 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:35.199 internet, I realized, No, that's really his name, He's really the 76 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:40.600 head of the BFRO. So I got his email address, contacted him, 77 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:46.519 and I joined the BFRO. At that time, that amounted to a hillebeins. 78 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:48.399 It didn't go on on eighty outings. I didn't have access to any 79 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:53.480 of the private side message forums or anything like that. But I was a 80 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:58.040 member and about once a month or so. I think they still do this, 81 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.920 where they'll put like their upcoming outings on their homepage. Back then, 82 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:05.399 they had the option where you could click the button to try and join the 83 00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:11.560 outing before it took place, if you were a researcher and lo and behold 84 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:15.079 they were coming to Oklahoma. So clicked the button, fuilled out the form, 85 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:18.439 Hey I want to go with you guys, I'm in Oklahoma. I'd 86 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:23.720 love to go. Got a message back. Eventually. It took several tries, 87 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:27.680 but basically they said that I didn't have anything to offer. They were 88 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:31.240 going to be using some high end camera equipment and stuff. During the application 89 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:35.319 process, they asked you to list what equipment you have and resources and stuff, 90 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:38.759 and I didn't have anything. I was just a kid in my early 91 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:42.680 twenties, so I had put that I had like a camcorder, like an 92 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:46.439 audio recorder, but that's like nothing. So I got turned down for the 93 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:49.639 outing. So at that point I started looking into other resources and I found 94 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:55.240 a group that was actually based out of Oklahoma and did things in this region 95 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:59.839 and ended up joining them. They were called the Monkey Chasers, which was 96 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:03.040 a great name in hindsight, but at the time I didn't care. And 97 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:09.120 yeah, went on my first outing with them, met up with everybody. 98 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:13.800 I think it was November of two thousand and one, was whenever I first 99 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:17.600 met everybody for the first time. Quite the origin story man. Everybody has 100 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:21.240 a BFRO story, I think in some shape form or fashion. Yeah, 101 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:25.240 they're like the Kevin Bacon of the Bigfoot world or something. Yeah, there's 102 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:30.920 six degrees of separation between the BFRO and everybody who's into Bigfoot and moneymaker. 103 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.040 I tell you, I hung out with him in the Smokies this past year 104 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:36.759 up in the Smoky Mountain Bigfoot Conference. He, Cliff and Renee were there 105 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:40.319 and I got to hang out with all of them. He's one of those 106 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:45.560 gregarious personalities. He is larger than life. He is what he is. 107 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:47.240 He rubs a lot of people the wrong way, for sure. But just 108 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:51.160 recently I had a guy on the show. I aired his story I think 109 00:07:51.319 --> 00:07:56.079 last week. He had reported it to the BFRO in his area over in 110 00:07:56.120 --> 00:08:01.000 Louisiana years ago. This happened back in twenty eighteen, I think, and 111 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:03.879 he had found a couple of other people that subsequently had sightings in that area 112 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.879 that had also reported it to the BFRO, they'd gotten no response. As 113 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:11.480 soon as I aired his episode, he went over. I guess he posted 114 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:15.240 the episode or something in their Facebook group. I think he said. Within 115 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:18.680 a matter of an hour or so, he gets an email or a phone 116 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:22.120 call from Matt Moneymaker apologizing for the fact that his stuff wasn't on there, 117 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:26.319 going to have an investigator follow up with him. Just the fact that he 118 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:28.680 took the time to do that. I had to give him props where props 119 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:33.639 are due. At least he's reaching out and having conversations with people. So 120 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:37.039 whatever you think about Moneymaker and the BFRO, I think they serve a purpose 121 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:39.960 for sure. And I know quite a few BFRO investigators that I've had on 122 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:43.360 the show. Laurie Wade comes to mind. Laurie's a great researcher. She 123 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:48.279 takes a lot of people out and has some really cool experiences and things on 124 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:52.039 her outings for the BFRO. But I think the problem is, and I 125 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:56.000 know the problem is they're understaff. There's not enough people, there's not enough 126 00:08:56.039 --> 00:09:01.679 investigators to handle the influx of reports. So it is important. Hopefully this 127 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:05.879 was back you said late nineties when you were having this kind of experience. 128 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:09.720 Hopefully things have changed in twenty twenty four and maybe if people are into that 129 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:11.600 sort of thing, they can go over to the BFRO website, become an 130 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:15.639 investigator and help with some of the backlog and clearing some of the shit up 131 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:18.200 because people are seeing sasquatch and it's not getting put on the bfr A website 132 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:22.679 because there's just simply not enough people to go through it. I understand that 133 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:26.440 because we do interviews with people all the time. The backlog here is months 134 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:31.200 and months that we're scheduling out to do these interviews. It's an interesting dichotomy, 135 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:37.240 and it's interesting just in general to see the amount of reports. This 136 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.200 is one of the things I wrote about in my book Shameless book plug Sasquatch 137 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:45.039 Unleash. The truth behind the legend is out for everybody. If you want 138 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:46.240 to copy of that, you can pick up a copy. But that's one 139 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:50.279 of the things I talk about in the book is shows like yours, Matt, 140 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:56.840 shows like mine, other podcasts that feature bigfoot sasquatch encounters play a role 141 00:09:56.159 --> 00:10:01.519 in the increase in my opinion of said encounters, and I think it's twofold. 142 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:07.039 I think it's almost like defining Bigfoot expedition, bigfoot sort of syndrome. 143 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:11.320 You bring it into people's houses and in their ears, and in their cars, 144 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:15.440 at work and wherever, and it brings it to them in a way 145 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:18.799 where it makes it more normal to talk about. So let me ask you, 146 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:22.840 at least my opinion is I think we have played a part these shows 147 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:28.120 played apart obviously the television shows have in the increased amount of citing reports versus 148 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:31.360 what you might have gotten back in the say, seventies, eighties, and 149 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:35.799 nineties. Have you seen that in your last twenty plus years of being in 150 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:39.200 the bigfoot community in the zeitgeist, have you seen that and do you think 151 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:43.759 that plays a part in it as far as podcast and television. Oh? 152 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:48.960 Absolutely. I'm one of those people that sometimes Moneymaker rubs the wrong way because 153 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:52.840 before I was a podcaster, I was a researcher. I was going out 154 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:56.320 in the field all the time. I was putting boots on the ground, 155 00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:01.639 as they say, And so the researcher side of me still every now and 156 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:05.000 then has a little bit of conflict with some of the things that other researchers 157 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:09.480 say, or the conclusions they reach. It's just natural for human beings to 158 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:16.679 be that way. But Matt Moneymaker is arguably the most influential person in the 159 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:22.080 bigfoot world ever. He's probably introduced more people to the subject than anybody else 160 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:28.320 on the planet through the BFRO and through the television series Finding Bigfoot, which 161 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:31.879 I'm sure this happens to you as well. I get quite a few guests 162 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:37.519 on the show where their introduction to the subject was Finding Bigfoot. That show 163 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:45.720 made the online bigfoot community grow by tenfold easily. It spread the word of 164 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:48.919 bigfoot, and since that, you have a double edged sword, because you 165 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:56.600 do have just a huge influx of reports coming in nowadays. But obviously I 166 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:01.120 would say a lot, if not most of those reports are going to be 167 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:07.480 misidentifications. People just lying for whatever reason, or maybe they are a Bigfoot, 168 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:11.519 but for whatever reason, it's something that happened in nineteen eighty five and 169 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:15.840 they're just now reporting it because they watched Finding Bigfoot or they learned about the 170 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:22.759 BFRO. But you still do have that small percentage at least of ongoing sidings 171 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:26.679 that are happening. People are still submitting them to the BFRO, and they're 172 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.399 still getting posted on a regular basis. Without being directly involved with the BFRO, 173 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:35.320 I can't tell you exactly what their backlog is. I know at one 174 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:39.519 time it was like a couple of years, I think, but they are 175 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:46.559 consistently still putting out regular siding reports. I know, just not too long 176 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:50.919 ago. I did my one hundredth episode and I pulled a couple of reports 177 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:56.240 off the BFRO that happened in the past couple months. So in that I 178 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:03.320 said, they are doing tremendous amount of work or Bigfoot and just the education 179 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.960 to the general public, which I think is extremely important. Yeah, I 180 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:09.559 definitely agree, man, and I've said it so many times. I'm friends 181 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.519 with Cliff. Cliff wrote the forward to my new book, and Cliff was 182 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:18.919 obviously on finding Bigfoot. I enjoy Renee, I even like Matt, but 183 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:22.840 I say it's a double edged sword because it did so much to bring Bigfoot 184 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:28.120 into the homes of so many and make it more palatable to talk about. 185 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:33.320 But I think it did a real disservice in a lot of other ways in 186 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:35.279 some of the tactics they use, some of the things they did for television 187 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:39.559 that probably aren't the best research. I think it's great in many ways, 188 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.320 very much like these podcasts. That's one of the things we deal in. 189 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:46.919 It's all about encounter stories. Over here on Sasquatch Odyssey. People enjoy hearing 190 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:50.639 those. They're entertaining, but I don't know how much it pushes the ball 191 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:56.399 down the field for researchers. You can get a lot of information from these 192 00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:58.519 sightings. I think it's a lot of data that has collected because I've done 193 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:03.200 that just my show. I'm four hundred plus episodes into this podcast, and 194 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:07.559 I can go back and listen to those first twenty twenty five thirty shows that 195 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:13.879 I did years ago and compare what's happening now versus then, and there's a 196 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.120 lot of similarities in the stories. I heard somebody talking about it. It 197 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:22.759 might have actually been you on another podcast, to be quite honest with you, 198 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:26.360 who is talking about some of the things that come up in the nomenclature 199 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:31.200 and how people will pick up on They'll hear something on your show, or 200 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:33.480 they'll hear something on my show, and they have an encounter of their own, 201 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:37.720 and somehow something they've heard somebody else say about their encounter, it gets 202 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:43.279 merged and maybe this one phrase and how somebody says something about their encounter gets 203 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:46.720 woven into the fabric of their own story, and then that gets passed on 204 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:50.559 and then somebody hears you know what I'm talking about, it's that oh yeah, 205 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:54.440 yeah, one hundred percent. But that's just that's the thing. That's 206 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.320 what I consider the folklore of the subject, and I try to keep that 207 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.840 separate from the research side of the subject as much as possible. I think 208 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.320 if you ask any researcher, they're going to tell you that at the heart, 209 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.960 eyewitness reports are the most important thing, but at the same time, 210 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:15.799 they're not anything you can depend on. And you know that better than anyone. 211 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.799 Being a former police officer, you end up having to look at the 212 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.720 evidence and let the evidence lead you. A lot of times with these stories 213 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:28.679 that come out on the podcast and even on the television shows, you do 214 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:33.279 notice if you spend enough time listening to witnesses tell their stories, you do 215 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:39.480 notice repeated phrases, repeated scenarios and situations. I've talked to a lot of 216 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:46.440 guests on my own show that we're guests on other podcasts or listen to bigfoot 217 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:50.960 podcasts and then had an encounter and now they want to share their encounter, 218 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:56.879 so the researcher side of me hardly ever comes out on the podcast. I 219 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:03.600 keep my opinions for the most part to myself and provide the platform for the 220 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:07.480 witness to share their story, regardless of what it is. And most of 221 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.159 the time I'm trying not to hear their story before we actually start recording. 222 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:15.879 I want to give them my full undivided attention. I don't want to lead 223 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.559 them with questioning, and I want to have an honest reaction to what they're 224 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:25.320 saying. That wasn't something that used to happen before Bigfoot podcast took off back 225 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:29.759 in the day. Whenever I first got involved in Bigfoot podcasting, this is 226 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:34.159 back in two thousand and fourish, I think all the shows were researchers. 227 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:40.519 There wasn't any platforms for witnesses to come on and just share their stories. 228 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:44.320 So you were hearing a lot of opinion and a lot of conjecture and theories 229 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:48.879 as to what the different factions of researchers thought, and every once in a 230 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:52.759 while you'd get a story from their perspective of whenever if we went out on 231 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:56.200 an outing and something happened and we came back and did a show about it. 232 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:02.559 But this whole just neutral platform of letting witnesses share their stories, just 233 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:07.759 like they're doing sighting reports. That wasn't a thing, and now that is 234 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.359 the thing. Bigfoot stories lead the charge in the world of bigfoot on the 235 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.039 internet at least, and like you said, and have found out that's what 236 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.920 people want to hear. They want to hear the stories. Damn it, 237 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.359 Matt, you stole my secret, sauce Man. I thought I was the 238 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:23.559 only one that didn't like to hear the stories. I say that all the 239 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:27.160 time on the show when I'm talking to people right before we do the interview. 240 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:30.240 I've actually had people get pissed off at me before not doing a pre 241 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:34.799 call or a pre interview before the interview to get their story. I want 242 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:37.000 to hear it, cold turkey. I want to hear it for the first 243 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:40.799 time when I have them on. Like you, I did a little research 244 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:42.519 on you and I wanted to listen to some of the things you had talked 245 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:45.160 about. Now, if I've had somebody on that does a lot of podcasts, 246 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:48.599 I will go and make sure that I don't try to cover the same 247 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:52.759 things that you've said a thousand times. But if it's just Joe Shmoe or 248 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:56.960 Jane whoever who's had a big Foot encounter, I don't want to hear it 249 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:00.400 before you tell me on the show for the first time, because, very 250 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:03.640 much like you, I want to give you undivided attention. I want to 251 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:07.759 be taking notes, which I do during every interview, and I want to 252 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:10.720 hear it for the first time when you're telling me, so I can react 253 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:12.680 to it the same way that the audience is going to But more importantly, 254 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:17.119 I don't come in with any preconceived notions. I don't come in thinking your 255 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:19.799 story is complete bullshit. Now a lot of times I get surprised because I 256 00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:23.920 don't do these interviews before. Yeah yeah, you find yourself waiting and writing 257 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:27.480 out into the middle of the swamp before you know it exactly, And fortunately 258 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:30.920 most of them aren't live. I had the sex with the Sasquatch guy on 259 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:34.599 last year, who claimed to have sex with a female Sasquatch on a camping 260 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:38.440 trip. That was interesting. And then I had Tyler Bounds on a couple 261 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:41.240 of weeks ago, who worked on finding Bigfoot for about five years. I 262 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:45.799 had no idea who Tyler was and he starts telling these stories about going out 263 00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:48.440 with Cliff and Matt and Renee and doing their thing in the field, and 264 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:52.640 how he feels like he probably hit a big foot in the car where he 265 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:56.599 was going out and doing camera work at two o'clock in the morning, and 266 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:59.720 just all these crazy stories. And I had no idea. He starts telling 267 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:02.720 the story, and it's completely a surprise. As it unraveled, he said, 268 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:04.400 I think the exact statement was, I don't know how much research you've 269 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:07.680 done on me, or how much vetting. And I thought, oh shit, 270 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:10.279 here it comes. He the other shoe is going to drop. What's 271 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:11.720 he going to say? And then he says, Hey, I just worked 272 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:18.160 on finding bigfoot for five years. But you get those hopefully pleasant surprises most 273 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:19.400 of the time. Let's talk a little bit about the research. We've been 274 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:22.799 all over the place, so let's get into the research. You get out 275 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:25.759 into the woods in two thousand and one. How long did it take you 276 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:29.519 when you got out into the woods to have your first experience with these things? 277 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:33.400 Oh? Man, I completely shot myself in the foot within a year. 278 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:37.400 I'll just leave that one hanging for a second. Within a year. 279 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:41.640 It sounds so bizarre whenever I say it was September of two thousand and two, 280 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:47.759 whenever I had a sighting, and that's not supposed to happen. And 281 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:53.559 as a researcher who caming like I had something to prove because I was at 282 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:57.039 the time, like I said, in my early twenties and considered very young 283 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:02.839 for the bigfoot world. All my peers were much older than I was. 284 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:07.559 Unless they're listening than they weren't that much older. So to go out there 285 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:11.720 and just man, have a sighting, whenever I'm following the stories of all 286 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:17.599 these legends who have been in the field for decades and found a couple tracks 287 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:19.839 and never had a sight in I'm just like, what's going on? Which 288 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:26.079 played hell on my mind for a while, not just the initial incident, 289 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:29.599 trying to wrap my head around act, Oh my god, I just saw 290 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:33.920 a freaking bigfoot. But what could it have been? Are these people messing 291 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.680 with me? Was I set up? And trying to unravel the situation? 292 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:42.000 Because I was in a parking lot in Oklahoma. Granted the parking lot was 293 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.359 in the middle of the National Force, but I was in a parking lot. 294 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:47.799 I was in a place where I'm not out in the middle of the 295 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:52.839 woods in the Pacific Northwest, so I came back. I actually filed a 296 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.839 report on the big Foot and Counter's website, which was ran by a woman 297 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.759 named Bobby Short. She's no longer with us, but she was amendous asset 298 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:03.160 to the bigfoot world. The group I was with at the time, the 299 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:07.799 Monkey Chasers, I don't even think we had a website yet. We didn't 300 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:11.920 have a sighting report database or anything like that. So the leader of the 301 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:14.880 group just told me to send it there, so I did. And then 302 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:19.960 it was like I was reluctant to share the story with other researchers because I 303 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:26.559 knew how witnesses got treated by researchers. From my own perspective, I don't 304 00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:30.839 expect anybody to believe anything I was saying, or still to this day, 305 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:34.920 I don't expect anybody to believe me, because as a researcher, that was 306 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:38.559 the train of thought. You don't just believe a story, you believe the 307 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:42.640 evidence, you do the investigation. You got to see it with your own 308 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:45.319 two eyes, and that's how I was. The problem was I was seeing 309 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:52.240 it with my own two eyes. Actually, it wasn't even a real research 310 00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:56.559 outing. It was more of a social gathering. It was a barbecue, 311 00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.200 like a camp out, weekend barbecue. We chose this location. It was 312 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:06.359 down in sulf For Oklahoma Chickasaw National Recreation Area. It's got a history of 313 00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:11.440 Bigfoot reports sidings from tourists every year. We knew some locals that lived down 314 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.519 there that were involved in bigfoot, which, as a researcher, another red 315 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:19.519 flag. Yeah, we went down there. They took us to some of 316 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:23.079 the better known hot spots in the area, and this was just one of 317 00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:26.960 them that we happened to be at. The parking lot was a U shape 318 00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:30.640 where you could drive in on this forest road and go into the parking lot. 319 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:34.160 It was actually the parking lot of a nature center where you could pick 320 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:37.440 up pamphlets and stuff, and they had a few of the local wildlife on 321 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:42.680 display. There was quite a few of us, probably about ten people there. 322 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:47.480 Everybody was spread out. There's this guy named Robert, who is the 323 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:49.359 leader of the group, who's standing off to the side of me by the 324 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:55.960 tree line, and he's got a Gen three night vision scope, a monocular 325 00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:00.440 scope that he's looking through. It was actually a hunting rifle scope that had 326 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:04.440 been fashioned for bigfoot research because you had to kit bash everything back then. 327 00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:07.200 He just called me over and he was like, hey, take a look 328 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:11.039 at this and see if you can see what I'm seeing. So I look 329 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:15.799 through the night vision scope and I can see his finger pointing in this general 330 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:22.599 area, and I see these two eyes eye shine very bright, maybe about 331 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:26.039 thirty yards away at an angle from me, but just inside the tree line, 332 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:30.200 not too far. So I'm letting my eyes focus on it and everything 333 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:34.720 to try and see what it is it's got. Forard facing eyes, I 334 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:40.119 can tell that seems to be looking right at us. That's when I noticed 335 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:44.519 that those eyes were part of a face. I say face because that's what 336 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:47.359 it was. It was a face. It wasn't a head, it was 337 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:53.200 a face. This thing was hiding behind the tree branches, so the top 338 00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:56.359 of its head was cut off by a branch in the bottom of its like 339 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:00.240 right below its mouth. I couldn't see the chin, and I can see 340 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.440 the top of the head, but I could see everything in between completely clearly. 341 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:07.720 The scope that I was looking through had a small about magnification to it. 342 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.359 I'm not sure how much, but it wouldn't have been very much, 343 00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:15.680 so I could see this thing pretty clearly. I looked at it for probably 344 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:19.400 a good thirty seconds. The eyes were almond shape, set very deeply into 345 00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:26.000 the face. The brow ridge was very heavy, not what I had seen 346 00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.680 depicted as a browridge, if that makes any sense. The center part of 347 00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:33.519 the brow ridge between the eyes was actually the thickest, most protruding part. 348 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.960 Then it tapered around on the sides of the head. The forehead completely covered 349 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:42.279 in hair, but shorter hair, and it was growing backwards up over the 350 00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:48.039 head, and it had this afroish, old, long chainy wolf man appearance 351 00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:51.440 to it. That was the first thing that popped in my head as a 352 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:56.000 comparison to what this thing looked like. The nose was very similar to ours. 353 00:24:56.279 --> 00:25:00.880 The bridge of it, it looked scooped. It was much thinner than 354 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:04.920 I would expect, because keep in mind everything I've seen bigfoot wise, you 355 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:10.400 had Patty Harry and the Henderson's, the older movies, Legend of Boggy Creek, 356 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:14.839 things like that. Then you had a few artists nothing like it is 357 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:19.200 today, that had done depictions and tried to do like eyewitness sketches and everything. 358 00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:22.039 And this didn't look like any of those. The cheek bones were set 359 00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:29.279 really high and very prominent. The jaw was wide and muscular. The flare 360 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.480 of the jawline actually was wider than like the temple area next to the eyes. 361 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:40.920 The lips sat right underneath the nose, which The nose was wide flat, 362 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:44.279 like you hear people describing it, didn't have a nose tip on it 363 00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:48.839 like we do. The nostrils were slightly upturned, but not so much as 364 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:52.920 like a gorilla or anything like that, but almost like in between a human 365 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:57.599 and a gorilla, that sort of angle. The top lip was a little 366 00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:02.240 bit thinner than the bottom lip. The hair on the face was the same 367 00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:04.920 pattern as a male human has if you just let your facial hair grow out. 368 00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:08.759 The most distinct thing about it was the jaw itself. It looked like 369 00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:14.559 it had an underbite. The bottom lip was sitting out farther than the top 370 00:26:14.599 --> 00:26:17.759 lip. This thing was just staring at me. I couldn't see any ears. 371 00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:19.079 I couldn't tell you what color of the hair was because it was just 372 00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:22.680 green. I was looking through night vision. I took the night vision scope 373 00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:26.599 down and I'm looking at Robert, and I was like, is that a 374 00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:30.279 face? And I put the night vision scope back up to look at it 375 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:34.160 some more. I don't remember what his response was because I was just completely 376 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:38.319 hyper focused on this situation. The thing was just gone. There was no 377 00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:41.680 noise of it leaving nothing, There was no movement. It was just gone. 378 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:47.759 I could see clearly the exact space where it had been, and now 379 00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:53.200 that bottom limb was a little bit closer to that top limp. So I 380 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:56.759 think, I don't know, it's just a guess, but I think it 381 00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:00.359 was like holding that bottom limb down and kieking the between the limbs at us, 382 00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:04.000 and then whenever I looked away, just for that brief second, that 383 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:07.400 gave it an opportunity to haul ass. And that's what it did. How 384 00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.160 it moved without making any noise. How these things move without making any noise, 385 00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:15.680 I have no idea that's what happened. That's one of the things that 386 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:21.000 kills me about people's encounters with these things is the fact that they are so 387 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:26.319 huge in most cases, and yet you hear that over and over again. 388 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.880 It just moved off. I heard nothing, There was no movement. Versus 389 00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:33.759 some of the experiences that I've had people come on and share, including my 390 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:34.960 own when I was a kid, I think I was bluff charged by one 391 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:41.880 of these things. That's all I heard was loud crashing and huffing and grunting, 392 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:45.799 just all of the things. Right. So it's weird that people have 393 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:49.880 similar experiences, but they can be very different in that these things can disappear, 394 00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:52.359 it seems, at will. We're not getting into the wu here. 395 00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:57.480 Folks by disappear, go into blend into the surroundings and disappear, just like 396 00:27:57.640 --> 00:28:02.599 a trained Armed Force RUS operator can go out and disappear. You can be 397 00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:07.319 standing right next to these people that are trained in camouflage and those tactics and 398 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:10.079 they could be standing two feet from me and you'd never know they were there 399 00:28:10.279 --> 00:28:14.319 unless they wanted you to know. So obviously that's quite a way to start 400 00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:18.079 off a year or so into your field research having this fighting like that. 401 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:21.759 How did you top that? Man? What was the next experience that you 402 00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:25.759 had? With these thoughts? Stay tuned for more sasquatch out to see. 403 00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:32.920 We'll be right back after these messages. Do I even want to say it? 404 00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:38.119 The next experience, oh boy, happened about thirty minutes later and about 405 00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:44.119 fifty yards from where that one was there was a trail right by the road 406 00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:48.559 at the entrance to the parking lot. This one is definitely a holatif, 407 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:52.640 but I'll go ahead and tell the story. There's again a group of us. 408 00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:59.640 There's myself and maybe two other individuals that are up by this trailhead. 409 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:06.359 We had smelled a skunky type smell. Being from Oklahoma, that meant nothing 410 00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:10.720 to me. I grew up smelling skunks all the time, but it's of 411 00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:15.880 note due to the situation. So on this trail, we're all standing there. 412 00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:19.599 Then they wandered off, and something's catching my attention on this trail, 413 00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:25.200 and I'm looking down the trail but about I don't know how far, and 414 00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:29.880 probably fifty feet or so. It was just blacked out. Now it's nighttime 415 00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:34.079 and there's a really bright moon out and I can see like the light coming 416 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:40.359 through the limbs of the trees and everything, but I can't see as far 417 00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:42.720 down this trail as I should be able to. And that's what I was 418 00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:45.359 staring at, because it looked like something was standing there on the trail. 419 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:49.599 But whatever it was, it would have to be massive. Absolutely, It's 420 00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:53.960 like taking up the entire space of the trail and I'm staring and staring, 421 00:29:55.039 --> 00:30:03.160 and it looks, like I said, it looks like big giant foot very 422 00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:10.319 slowly raises up and slowly withdraws into the shadow. I can just barely make 423 00:30:10.359 --> 00:30:14.000 it out as the moonlight is going through and hitting the ground, and it's 424 00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:18.119 like the light's getting caught on the foot as it moves, and I'm like, 425 00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:23.839 what is that again? Appears to be the silhouette of large shoulders and 426 00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:29.960 a head pull back into the shadow just a little bit, and it's moving 427 00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:33.880 so slow, and I'm thinking my eyes have got to be playing tricks on 428 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:37.799 me. I'm just shook up because of what I just saw. You can 429 00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:42.680 hear a car coming from towards the entrance to the area, and it's coming 430 00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:48.559 down this road, and this road eventually curves and comes around to where the 431 00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:52.839 entrance to the parking lot is. So I'm waiting for that car because I 432 00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.160 know that car's headlights is going to just light this trail up as it comes 433 00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:00.480 around that bend. So I'm waiting the car's coming. I can see the 434 00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:04.200 headlights sweeping through the trees. It's just about to get to where the angle 435 00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:07.960 will hit the trail and all of a sudden, there's this huge crash, 436 00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:12.880 brush breaking, and I'm still looking down the trail, but now as the 437 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:15.880 lights go down the trail, I can clearly see down the trail, just 438 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:19.200 as far as the trail goes until it curves off into the woods and you 439 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:23.440 can't see it anymore. I don't hear anything else. It sounded like something 440 00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:27.839 running off into the woods and then just stopping after a short ways. But 441 00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:30.519 now, like I said, I can clearly see down the trail. So 442 00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:34.400 was that a Bigfoot? I don't know. I think it might have been. 443 00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:41.200 I ended up spending the majority of my research years in this park, 444 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:47.039 in that section of woods. That's where all my research was done, so 445 00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:49.759 I came to learn things about it. This park is a special place. 446 00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:53.440 Everybody knows about it. Now if you're in bigfoot research, you've probably heard 447 00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.920 of this park. You may have been there. It's a location where you 448 00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:01.559 have, like I said, TODs every year, so you have a lot 449 00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:06.680 of people and it's just on the outskirts of a town. But it's almost 450 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:10.359 like the bigfoot over the years got used to being around people, so they're 451 00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:15.039 not as skittish or they don't really care about being hidden as much they raid 452 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:22.119 trash cans and stuff there. What seemed like absolutely crazy. I'm going nuts, 453 00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:24.839 something's going on here. Seven years later, I'm like, yeah, 454 00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:28.400 that's pretty normal for this park, So it's not that big of a deal. 455 00:32:28.839 --> 00:32:30.680 But I had a friend with me at the time, and we went 456 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:36.160 back to that location later on that night. I had him walk down that 457 00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:39.359 trail where I saw this silhouette and I was looking at him through the night 458 00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:44.440 vision and I'm like guiding him because the part where I saw what it looked 459 00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:47.559 like pulling its head back into the darkness, there was a branch of a 460 00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:52.640 tree limb hanging across the trail right there, and its head was just underneath 461 00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:57.920 that limb. So I had my friend go and stand underneath that limb. 462 00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:01.640 And he's a short guy. He's five foot four, he'll like to say 463 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:06.559 five foot six, but whenever he was staying in that spot, that tree 464 00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:12.200 limb was at least two of him. So this thing would have had to 465 00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:19.079 have been around nine feet tall and probably about three to four feet wide at 466 00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:23.640 the shoulders, which you hear stories about them being that size, but I 467 00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:29.119 don't think people really realize how big that is. That's absolutely massive. So 468 00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:31.599 I don't know if it's what I saw. I'm pretty sure it's what I 469 00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:36.119 saw. I guess it'll just be one of those things that'll just plague me 470 00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:38.880 for the rest of my life. But yeah, that was the second incident, 471 00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:43.160 and it happened the same night, just shortly after the first one. 472 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:46.559 Wow. So let me ask you, this man that's starting off with a 473 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:53.079 bang. Like I said, how do you think your sightings that early into 474 00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:57.720 research affected the rest of the research that you did, Because, as you 475 00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:01.519 said, there's people who have researched these things for six decades. Peter Burne 476 00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:05.240 comes to mind. Peter was on the show last year before he passed away. 477 00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:07.440 I think I was probably the last person to interview Peter, and we 478 00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:10.760 talked about that. He was out there for six decades and I don't even 479 00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:15.320 think he found his own footprint ever, and he certainly never saw one of 480 00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:17.559 these things. It never even really came close to it. But how do 481 00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.119 you think you seeing one that early into your research affected the way that you 482 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:27.679 researched the subject and went about your business moving forward from that point on? 483 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:30.679 Obviously, that was one of the first conundrums, one of the first pieces 484 00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:34.519 of the puzzle is Okay, how did this happen to me? Why did 485 00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:37.079 it happen? How is it possible that I could just go out here and 486 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:43.440 see what that's crazy? That doesn't happen. Ultimately, the conclusion that I 487 00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:46.760 reached, which like I said, I spent the majority of my research years 488 00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:52.079 in that park after those sightings. That's why, like I said, I 489 00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:54.599 was in an area where I felt they were used to people. So you 490 00:34:54.679 --> 00:35:00.360 get away with a lot more. You get more activity going around you than 491 00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:05.880 say, if you go out to a place where you might go to a 492 00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:08.599 public hunting area or something like that, deep in the wilderness where they never 493 00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:15.159 come across people. The other factor was in Oklahoma, the woods are not 494 00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:21.079 that big. We have a lot more forest here than people realize. But 495 00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:23.960 the haystack I always use this analogy, my needle in a haystack. The 496 00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:30.079 haystacks here are much smaller than other places. I think that's an extremely large 497 00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:34.800 benefit. I think if you're out in an expanse of forests that's tens of 498 00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:37.960 thousands of acres like you have in the Pacific Northwest, with these rugged mountains 499 00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:44.920 and impossible train your odds of running into a bigfoot. Come on, you're 500 00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:50.480 wasting your sign in my opinion, in Oklahoma. And it's not just Oklahoma, 501 00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:53.000 in a lot of southern states as a matter of fact, you have 502 00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:57.079 a lot of rural communities. You've got a lot of people that live out 503 00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:01.079 in the woods in these spaces where these things occupy and they get more use 504 00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:07.280 to humans. We have a large Native American community here. A lot of 505 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:12.760 those Native American communities around the state are well aware of these things and encounter 506 00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.880 them on an almost daily basis. Sometimes that's the situation that I immersed myself 507 00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:23.440 in. I was also approaching it from a strange perspective of I'm now a 508 00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:29.679 knower. I am working with the answer backwards. Now I don't have to 509 00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:32.079 try to figure out are these things really out there? I know they're out 510 00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:37.599 there, So now I can look at things and be like, Okay, 511 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.119 this might actually be from a bigfoot because I know they're there. Now. 512 00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:44.320 That didn't mean I was no longer skeptical. I would say I was more 513 00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:47.800 skeptical at that point, especially of my own findings of the evidence that I 514 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:52.840 had scrutinize myself more than anybody but I had that ace up my sleeve of 515 00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:59.360 knowing that they're out there, which ultimately to the conclusion that everything you find 516 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:04.719 that might be bigfoot related is either going to be ultimately either made by a 517 00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:08.079 bigfoot or made by a human. But a lot of the time, the 518 00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:12.400 odds the possibility is of it being due to a human, whether it be 519 00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:17.239 a track or a structure or a vocalization or whatever, the odds are actually 520 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:21.760 better that it's a bigfoot, which is a weird thing to say, but 521 00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:24.639 it's the truth that you find yourself in a lot of strange scenarios where you're 522 00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:29.119 just like, yeah, the only thing this could be if it's not a 523 00:37:29.159 --> 00:37:32.480 bigquot as a person, and what are the odds of a person being responsible 524 00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:37.400 for this? It just doesn't add up. But at the end of the 525 00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:40.760 day, you have that conundrum of if you don't see a bigfoot do it, 526 00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.880 then you don't know a bigfoot did it. But at some point you 527 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.719 have to just say, okay, even with that, just for the sake 528 00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:53.199 of research, let's say it is a bigfoot and let that lead you to 529 00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:57.320 your next step and see where it takes you. Yeah, it's weird to 530 00:37:57.320 --> 00:38:00.119 say but I got to that same point when I was up Radium this past 531 00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:05.960 year in October. It's so far out there, it's so remote, eighteen 532 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:12.480 miles deep into the woods. Okham's razor becomes different there because Ockham's razor really 533 00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:15.800 points you in the direction that most of the things that we were finding and 534 00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:22.960 I was seeing were probably bigfoot related. It was made by a bigfoot. 535 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:27.760 Those tracks, the footprints, the tree breaks, the weird structures, the 536 00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:30.880 things that again, it's one or two things. Either a person made it. 537 00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:35.960 Todd Standing made it, or he had somebody make it, or it 538 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:37.960 was a bigfoot. There's just really no two ways about it. So I 539 00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:42.400 really had to do some work in my brain, and I've talked a little 540 00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:44.559 bit about that on the show before. I had to get to the point 541 00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:47.800 where I was opening myself up to maybe having some sort of experience that wasn't 542 00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:52.880 faked, that wasn't me being hoaxed, because I was really going into that 543 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:55.559 situation thinking that was probably going to happen. But when it didn't, I 544 00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:00.280 really walked away from that going, you know what. Those experiences that I 545 00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:05.039 had, those vocalizations I heard, the things that I saw were probably more 546 00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:08.840 likely than not related to Bigfoot. Can't say it for cirt, can't say 547 00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:13.039 it definitively because I didn't see it, like you said, didn't see a 548 00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:15.280 bigfoot do it. So I can't say that definitively. But I walked away 549 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:20.039 feeling that's what I had experienced. Let me ask you this, This is 550 00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:22.800 something that happens to me. I mentioned I joked about the WU a little 551 00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:24.960 bit earlier, but I'm always curious for somebody who's been doing this. As 552 00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.480 long as you have wearing the two hats, I have to wear those hats. 553 00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:31.840 And it's a delicate balance because, like you said, you have your 554 00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:35.679 research, your hat that you're looking into this, you're finding your own answers, 555 00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:37.440 you're doing your thing, you have your opinions about things. But you 556 00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:43.159 also have the podcast or hat where you're interviewing people and giving them a place 557 00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:47.400 in a platform to share their stories. How do you handle and balance the 558 00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:53.840 WU, the high strangeness, weird shit that people experience sometimes in relation to 559 00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:59.519 Bigfoot, sometimes not. How do you balance that as a researcher number one, 560 00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:01.639 looking at into the subject and knowing that they're real, and then how 561 00:40:01.639 --> 00:40:07.480 do you balance that as a podcaster when you hear those strange tales from people 562 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:12.920 that claim to have these outlandish, high strangeness situations with bigfoot. Oh man, 563 00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:15.840 that's a great question. As a researcher, I haven't been a researcher 564 00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:21.760 in years. Eventually I reached the point where I've had a sighting. I 565 00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:24.440 know these things are out there. This is costing a lot of money, 566 00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:30.360 it takes a lot of time. I don't think people quite understand how much 567 00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:35.639 researchers actually put into it if you're anything beyond the hobbyist. And I was 568 00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:38.239 definitely beyond the point of a hobbyist. But there was nothing more I could 569 00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:40.880 accomplish, especially on my own. I didn't have the financial means and I 570 00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:44.719 didn't have the time, and so I hung it up. I had some 571 00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:47.440 health issues going on. I just reached the end of that journey, I 572 00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:53.400 felt. But at the time, whenever I was an active researcher and I 573 00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:59.719 heard somebody have some sort of paranormal or supernatural story or something like that, 574 00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:02.760 I didn't even entertain it. I didn't even give it a second thought, 575 00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:06.880 Like, this person's full of shit. They're lying. They didn't experience what 576 00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:09.239 they thought they experienced. This thing's an ape, some sort of primate. 577 00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:14.639 And that's just how I felt. Flesh and blood all the way. Everything 578 00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:21.480 I experienced in regards to Bigfoot, things that I attribute to Bigfoot were definitely 579 00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:25.559 the results of a flesh and blood creature. I never experienced anything paranormal. 580 00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:30.599 Again, referring back to how I got started in this whole thing. I 581 00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:34.280 grew up in a haunted house. Man. I was experiencing paranormal shit that 582 00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:37.719 I can't understand to this day whenever I was like five years old. So 583 00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:45.079 I felt for some reason that Okay, I'm out here. If there's anything 584 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:49.119 paranormal to this, I'm going to notice it. I'm going to pick up 585 00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:52.159 on it. It's going to happen to me. That's just the way it 586 00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:54.920 is. And nothing ever did. With that being said, and I will 587 00:41:54.920 --> 00:42:00.719 not throw anybody under the bus. I haven't ever revealed any but if you 588 00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:07.159 spend enough time in this community, it just happens. Researchers who are extremely 589 00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:13.559 in the flesh and blood camp and never stray from that. Around a campfire 590 00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:17.599 when everybody's talking getting loose lips, you hear these stories every now and then 591 00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:22.800 there was this one time that this happened. I don't know, I don't 592 00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:27.519 know what it was, but it never happened again. I've had people that 593 00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:32.320 I trusted very much say there was this one time where this voice popped in 594 00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:36.079 my head that said get out of here, and I listened to it and 595 00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:40.360 I did. I had one guy talk about seeing a video supposedly some sort 596 00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:46.880 of I think it was a night vision video of a UFO or something like 597 00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:51.320 these things coming out of orbs and things like this, and these are people 598 00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:54.480 that are just like flesh and Blood researchers. That's before I'm ever a podcaster. 599 00:42:55.199 --> 00:43:00.000 Then whenever I started podcasting again, the show was Flesh and Bloo. 600 00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:04.679 Never strayed from it. Still hear these stories. Well over the years, 601 00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:08.639 I decided, you keep hearing the stories, and even though I consider them 602 00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:15.079 a very small minimal amount, they're still out there. Usually whenever somebody comes 603 00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:17.599 to forward on the Internet or on a message board or whatever, they just 604 00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:22.920 get attacked and it gets shut down. I've experienced things that I can't explain. 605 00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:27.320 I know that there's things out there that our science doesn't understand. Yet 606 00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:30.639 we may never understand it. It may be beyond our abilities to understand. 607 00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:37.480 So I wanted to provide a platform for people to share their stories, regardless 608 00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:40.920 of their beliefs, regardless of what kind of experience it was. So that's 609 00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:45.280 what I started doing. I don't know if it burnt bridges in the process. 610 00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:46.639 I think it has. I think there's a few people that I used 611 00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:52.000 to be associated with that probably have said some things behind closed doors about me 612 00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:55.760 for going that route. But I wanted to give everybody a fair shake because 613 00:43:55.760 --> 00:44:00.719 I felt like over the years I had never given it up fair chance. 614 00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:05.639 I wasn't giving an open mind, and that little kid in me scared to 615 00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:08.400 death because the footsteps were coming down the hallway every night and there's nobody attached 616 00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:12.440 to them. It wasn't fair to him. A lot of things we can't 617 00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:15.159 explain that happened. So that's why I did. I started letting these people 618 00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:20.639 on, and a lot of times, honestly, somebody will come on and 619 00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:23.360 they'll share their story and they'll have some paranormal factor to it. Still to 620 00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:27.800 this damn, I don't know. I wasn't there because with the paranormal stuff, 621 00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:30.599 the only thing that you have to support it is being able to have 622 00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:35.079 other people witness it with you. A lot of times they don't have that, 623 00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:37.360 so there's really no way for them improve it. And a lot of 624 00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:42.719 times get from the context clues that this person is probably telling this story for 625 00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:46.000 other reasons, whatever it might be. But then every now and then that 626 00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:52.159 you run across someone who is still shaken by it, you can hear in 627 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:54.000 the tone of their voice, you can hear their eyes welling up with tears, 628 00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:57.480 you can that lump gets in their throat, and you can tell this 629 00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:00.320 person's telling the truth. So I don't know what to make of it. 630 00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.880 I don't know. Is Bigfoot responsible for these events? I don't know, 631 00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:08.679 But I don't believe that door should be closed on anybody. I definitely agree. 632 00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:12.079 Man, tell us about the show. Where can people find it? 633 00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:15.880 What can they expect when they tune into Bigfoot Crossroads. Yeah, the show 634 00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:21.880 available on every major podcast platform, So wherever you listen to Sasquatch ODYSSEYE you 635 00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:25.480 can find Bigfoot Crossroads. More than likely it's on YouTube. Then the simplest 636 00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:30.239 thing is Bigfoot Crossroads dot Com. You can find all the past episodes there. 637 00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:34.119 I like say, everything you need all in one place. I am 638 00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:37.840 primarily a witness based show. I have guests come on and share their stories. 639 00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:43.719 Over the past year or so, I've opened it up even more. 640 00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:47.199 I like to hear encounters about anything man, anything unexplained, not just Bigfoot. 641 00:45:47.239 --> 00:45:52.519 It can be dog man, UFOs, ghosts, anything, chewpcabra. 642 00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:54.480 If you've seen it cheep Ofcabra, send me an email. I'd love to 643 00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:59.159 hear about it. Also, I don't always have the person come on the 644 00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:02.519 air. There's still that inner researcher in me that just likes to hear the 645 00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:07.159 stories myself. So if people aren't comfortable with going on the air, they 646 00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:10.920 can still email me and share their story if they want. You're probably just 647 00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:15.559 going to hear witnesses talk about their story. Like I said, I don't 648 00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:17.639 like to listen to the stories beforehand if I can avoid it, or maybe 649 00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:22.559 just get a few notes. Whenever I call a guest and start recording, 650 00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:27.119 that's usually the first time that I've talked to them, first time I've heard 651 00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:30.400 their story, so I let that dictate how the show goes. I just 652 00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:36.320 let the conversation lead itself. Sometimes we end up going in a completely different 653 00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:40.440 direction than I ever expected. Sometimes they mention something that kind of gets my 654 00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:44.119 attention. We go down that path for a little while. I try to 655 00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:46.199 keep it different, I try to keep it fresh, and I try to 656 00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:50.960 put the spotlight on the guest itself and not myself as much as possible. 657 00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:53.880 It is an excellent show. Folks, go check out Bigfoot Crossroads. I 658 00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:57.239 will link to it in the show notes. Go show Matt some love, 659 00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:01.079 subscribe, download the show. Will not be disappointed. Matt, thanks so 660 00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:04.880 much for coming on the show. Man. I've had an absolute blast talking 661 00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:07.679 to you. Yeah, man, thanks for having me. Gonna have to 662 00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:10.920 get you to come over to my house sometime and share some of your stories. 663 00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:22.000 They say you don't gotta go home, but you can't stay. I 664 00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:54.559 don't want to be world out it. Joy this job, that chart everything, 665 00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:09.679 Joy for me. Joy stay right you come in right away. Side 666 00:48:10.440 --> 00:49:05.920 still states still still, stop stat side stay still pass to fist stay plays 667 00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:15.840 FSS as fast usedst inst