WEBVTT

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This episode may contain content of a
graphic nature, including descriptions of physical and

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sexual violence against adults, children,
and animals. Listener discretion is advised.

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Hi everyone, I'm Talia and I'm
Tanya, and together we are Crimes and

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Consequences, a true crime podcast.
Hi Tanya, Hi Talia, how are

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you doing this week? I'm doing
fantastic. Sweet, I hope everybody else

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is doing fantastic. And thank you
guys all for tuning in to us.

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This is a story. It's a
serial killer, which I love. Yes,

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I read so much about him over
the years. I read an entire

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like three page book. I recognize
this serial killer for years and he's one

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of the worst. And now I'm
gonna tell y'all about I'm gonna share it

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with all of us. Yeah,
but before I do, I hit the

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subscriber follow button on whatever you app
you're listening to, because that really helps

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us. Forgive me. I got
some allergies going, so there's always something

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I went on. I know I
have bad allergies, so I'm a little

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nasily, but you're ready. Yeah, Okay, this is about Gary Heidnick.

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Do you know all about it?
You know that you don't know I

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am in for a tree, right, you know it's so horrible. It's

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so horrible. Let me give you
a little background, Okay. Gary Heidnick

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was born November twenty second, nineteen
forty three in East Lake, and that's

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a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio.
His parents Michael and Ellen. They were

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abusive parents, and he had a
really hard childhood. He was the oldest

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of two children, so it was
only him and he had a younger brother

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named Terry. Basically, Terry and
Gary were all each other had growing up.

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Both Michael and Ellen the parents.
They were known to be violent and

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they eventually divorced. When they did, Gary and Terry went to live with

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their mother, and she remarried.
It didn't take her long after the divorce

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to find somebody else. They lived
with her for four years, so they

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were young, okay when this happened. When the children were old enough to

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go to school, they ended up
moving in with their father, who was

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also remarried. The two boys were
basically raised by their father and their stepmother.

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Their father was really emotionally abusive as
well as physically. Michael would beat

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his children every chance he got,
and Gary suffered from urinary incontinence, so

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he often wet the bed, which
caused a beating. I'm sure check mark

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serial killer check he wet the bed. When this happened, his dad would

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force him to hang the wet sheets
out of the window of his own room

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so the neighbors could see, just
to embarrass him. One time Gary was

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forced to hold up the wet,
urn soaked sheets by his ankles from the

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window. What I did, like
hold them there. Michael would even go

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as far as painting a bulls eye
on the backside of his son's pants,

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and then he would kick the bulls
eye when he was at home like target

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practice. Yeah, that's so sick. And sometimes he would make Gary ware

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the wet pants to school if he
had soaked them earlier. Needless to say,

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Terry and Gary were scared shitless of
their father, and they were scared

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to even pick up things around the
house because God forbid, if they ever

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dropped anything, especially something that maybe
it was like a glass, he would

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just kick the living shit out of
them, massively abusive. Any reason would

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set him off, exactly. One
time, Gary fell out of a tree

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when he was extremely young, so
his head was shaped a little bit odd

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and the injury seemed to affect his
brain. He had an IQ of one

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hundred and forty eight. Oh wow. Yeah, he was extremely intelligent and

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he did well in school. But
there's just something off with Gary. He

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didn't have a lot of friends.
He refused to interact with people, and

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he couldn't make eye contacts. Even
if someone spoke to him, he couldn't

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look him in the eye. And
you know, often now it's a sign

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of autism or something, but we're
talking about in the nineteen fifties, he

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wasn't friendly and this was believed to
be resolved of just the abuse he suffered

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at home. At the age of
fourteen, Gary developed a fascination with a

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military and asked his father if he
could go to military school. Wow,

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who asked Gary? Yeah, he
was enrolled in the private, all male

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Stoughton Military Academy and that's located in
Virginia, the school closing in nineteen seventy

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six due to mismanagement issues, but
just so you know, it was successful

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for about one hundred years. Gary
studied there for two years but ended up

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leaving before he graduated. He ended
up going back to a public school and

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then he trapped out at the age
of eighteen, he joined the United States

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Army and he would serve for a
little over a year. He was an

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excellent student while there, according to
one droll sergeant, so after completing his

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training, Gary applied for a few
jobs that included the military police force and

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jobs with specialist roles, but he
was rejected. In nineteen sixty two,

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Gary was transferred to San Antonio,
Texas so he could be trained as a

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physician or a medic. Really so
he's very intelligent, but socially somewhat awkward.

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He excelled at this and then he
was later transferred to a military hospital

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in West Germany. He obtained his
certification after only being there for a few

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weeks. Prior to that, he
got a ged because he had to get

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a GED before he could get the
certification. Shortly after he got a certification,

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that's when Gary showed some signs that
maybe all wasn't right in his head.

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He reported himself in August of nineteen
sixty two, stating that he was

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experiencing disneyness, blurred vision, severe
headaches, vomiting. The doctors evaluated him

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and diagnosed him with a flu,
but the doctors also thought something's not right

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with Gary neurologically. He was prescribed
antipsychotics and that was to treat what they

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believed was schizophrenia because he was hallucinating. Oh no. Later that same year,

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Gary was transferred to a military hospital
in Philadelphia, and this is where

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he was officially diagnosed with schizo personality
disorder. After his diagnosis, Gary wasn't

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able to serve in the military.
You can, you know, you know

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you can't, but he was given
a full pension for his mental incapacity.

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According to some reports, Gary was
extremely unhappy working in a hospital in Germany,

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so he pretended to have mental illness
so that he could get honorably discharged

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for medical reasons. Because so he
can get a pension because he's super I

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mean a hundred and forty eight.
That's no joke. So I'm as smart

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as you and me kidding, No, yeah, babe. His pension was

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set at one hundred percent so he
could receive full benefits after it was discharged.

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To play a devil's advocate. One
of Gary's friends was there when Gary

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was initially diagnosed and he said that
the mental breakdown was one hundred percent legitimate.

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In nineteen sixty four. After being
just ar from the military, Gary

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began studying at the University of Pennsylvania, which is a very good school,

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very good school. He did lead
the university. Shortly after, he enrolled

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to pursue a nursing job at the
Veterans Administration in Coatesville, Pennsylvania. So

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he's working in a healthcare center.
Basically, it was a doctor's office for

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veterans and their families. Gary didn't
last very long there because he was fired

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for poor contact and poor attendance.
He was really rude to and he would

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show up, you know, when
he felt like it, and sometimes he

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wasn't even scheduled, and he'd be
like, Hey, I'm here to work

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and they're like, no, Gary, you're not scheduled. Andy, but

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I don't want to work and they'd
be like, no, Gary's time to

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go home. That's weird. I
mean, I'm paraphrasing. How basically that's

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how it went. About three years
later, he began a nursing job at

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the Elwyn Institute, and that's a
nonprofit organization located in Delaware count in Pennsylvania.

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This organization provided care for adults and
children who suffered from intellectual and developmental

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disabilities. Gary ended up spending a
lot of time in psychiatric hospitals because he

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attempted suicide on more than one occasion. Remember I told you about his brother

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Terry. Yes, Terry also suffered
from the same thing. After their mother,

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Ellen was diagnosed with bone cancer.
And I told you Ellen was an

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alcoholic and for years she just drank
and drank. She ended up committing suicide

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on Mother's Day, oh, nineteen
seventy one, by drinking mercuric chloride.

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What it's one of the chemicals used
in embalming. Oh my god, what

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the hell? Like, how do
you? How do you? I don't

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know. It sounds like it would
be I don't know. It just sounds

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like that would be just rolled up
to a funeral home, was like,

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Hey, can I have someone I
don't know? I don't know. Gary

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was seven at the time that happened. And Terry would later tell the Philadelphia

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Inquirer and this is an eighty seven
about his own suicide attempts, and what

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stuck out the most is a comment
he made about both Gary and him having

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schizophrenia. According to Terry, they
both suffered from schizophrenia, both attempted suicides.

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They didn't own a happy childhood.
So he thinks the diagnosis is correct

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and he has it too. Yeah, and he has it two. Wow,

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at the age of twenty eight.
Are you ready for this? Yeah?

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Gary from his own church. Oh
no, yes. It was in

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October of nineteen seventy one. It
was the United Church of the Ministries of

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God. He had taken a trip
to California and this is where he discovered

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his religious awakening. There he was
known as Brother Bishop and at the time,

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Brother Bishop had a congregation of five
followers five one being his brother Terry

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and one being his girlfriend. At
the game. Under the church's name,

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Gary opened a bank account and then
he got something with Merrill Lynch and put

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fifteen hundred in the account to start. Later the account would surpass five hundred

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thousand dollars. That's about five point
five million dollars today. The amount of

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funds in this account really relates and
demonstrates Gary's ability to manipulate personally and his

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skills in the stock market. Damn, because he would invest the money.

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Someone in his congregation said that he
had a Cadillac and rules Royce and that

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he would drive around in a camper
and sleep on the streets of southwest Philly,

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but that can't be completely verified.
In nineteen seventy six, Gary was

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arrested in charge with carrying an unlicensed
firearm. It was a pistol, and

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he was charged with aggravated assault.
He shot a person who was offering a

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rental property to Gary. He wanted
to go look his property. There's this

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guy's like, yeah, you know, here's the property. And Gary got

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upset and took this pistol shot at
the guy, raised his face. He

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didn't end up serving any time for
this, though this is nineteen seventy six.

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I mean, shit happens. What
the landlord, potential landlord? I

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don't know what shit happened. Gary
still had a tough time interacting with normal

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human beings when he was younger,
as I said, but he met a

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woman named Gail Linkow and he was
dating her. Eventually they would have a

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son together, Gary Jr. Unlucky
kid, I know. Unfortunately their son

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would be putting a foster home due
to the instability of Gail and Gary.

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Gary was working at a mental institution
because I told you he he's got his

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own congregation going. But his big
thing is to work with mentally challenged people,

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and he had a resume to support
his ability to work there. While

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he was at one another mental institution, he met another woman and her name

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was Aunt Janette Davidson, and they
began a relationship. She was another patient.

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So he's taking advantage of these women. Yeah, Anne, Jeanette suffered

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from diminished mental capacity. She was
illiterate. Her IQ was forty eight forty

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eight. He's definitely taking advantage of
her. She had a sister there named

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Alberta, and Alberta was a patient
too. Gary seemed to like an Jeanette,

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and the two of them ended up
having a daughter together on March sixteenth

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of nineteen seventy eight, and they
named her Maxine. Just like Gary Jr.

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Maxine would get put into the foster
care system because mom's a patient in

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the mental hospital and dad is fucking
nuts. H just be honest, like

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seriously, Gary, Like you're having
sex with the patients at a Montel hospital

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and he's still a church leader.
Oh no, but this isn't the entire

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ship show. He's brother bishop.
Yes, you're right. Gary was really

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desperate to start his own family,
even though he had two kids seriously.

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Yes, he really wanted to have
kids, he just didn't make the best

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choices. No, that's putting it
nicely. In nineteen seventy eight, Gary

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signed Alberta out of the mental hospital
for a one day pass. Oh,

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she thought she was just being taken
out for the day. It's one day

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passed, but no, Gary took
her to his home and he made her

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a prisoner and his basement. While
in prison in basement, he raped her

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and he satomizer. It took ten
days for the police to find Alberta.

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And remember that's the sister of man
Jeanette's to find her. She was shackled

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to pipes what in the basement?
She was terrified, covered in her own

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blood. Immediately taken to the hospital
and after I mean she'd been raped and

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sadomized for ten days straight, she
contracted ganaria. What Gary gave her ganaria.

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He was arrested and charged with kidnapping, rape, false imprisonment, interfering

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with the cousty of someone who's been
committed, unlawful restraint, and involuntary deviant

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sexual intercourse. The case didn't go
to trial until November, and he was

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found guilty. Do you know what
they did. They put him on probation.

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No, they didn't put him behind
bars. Okay. Gary was given

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three years in I think it's called
a Taska Darrow, which is a quote

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unquote prison for the mentally ill.
He was originally sentenced for three to seven

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years, but that was overturned on
an appeal, and after three years he

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was released and he was under supervision
of a state sanctioned mental program. So

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they're supposed to watch Gary. Yeah, while Gary was serving his time.

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During this time, Anne Jeanette somehow
vanished and she was never seen or heard

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from again, and it's believed Gary
had something to do with that. In

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nineteen eighty four, Gary bought a
rowhouse, kind of a cheap house in

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a so nice area where they're all
kind of very close together rouse in Philadelphia,

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Pennsylvania. This house, Tanya,
Oh my god, this house would

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turn into one of the most notorious
And when I say this, I mean

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horror shows of the most evil things
that could happen to a human being in

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Pennsylvania. And when I say,
I say, I swear to God,

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I mean it. What happens there
is so fucking bad. Tanya. Oh

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no, let's start out slowly,
Okay, from his home. He ran

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a church. Oh god, he's
still got his church. Got his church.

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It's kind of like a cult.
And he would advertise the church to

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any neighbors who would give his creeps
the time of day. The neighbors.

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Some of the neighbors went along with
it because the church expanded and it wasn't

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no longer five followers. There are
many more that joined to listen to Brother

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Bishop, Brother Bishop. And then
Gary gets married. What Gary used a

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matrimonial service to correspond with the woman
who lived in the Philippines, So it

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was like it was like a match
service to get married, like a male

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order. Brad. Yes, okay, that's what I'm trying to say,

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yea, even though it's not very
nice. Her name was Betty, Oh

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Betty, poor Batty. She just
wanted a better life, I know.

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The two wrote letters back and forth, and then Gary proposed a Botty.

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She arrived on some family visa probably
nine one thirty or fiance visa, because

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I've done them. Yes, Betty
arrived in Philadelphia in September of nineteen eighty

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five, and they tied the knot
on October third. Yes, Gary was

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not what you would consider to be
a good husband. Stop really yeah,

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00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.839
I mean Betty, like you said, she was coming to America. She

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thought she was meeting the man of
her dreams and hoping for a better life.

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But what she got was the exact
opposite. The marriage went down the

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00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:38.720
tubes rapidly. Betty found him in
bed having sex with multiple women. She

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was upset. Eventually he made her
watch what and he forced her to have

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sex with these women as well because
she was abused every day. She was

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abused during her short marriage Gary,
Betty said she was raped multiple times by

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him and beaten. In nineteen eighty
six, Gary was arrested for assault,

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indecent assault, spousal rape, an
involuntary deviant sexual intercourse. So good for

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Batty. I mean, this is
eighty six. I know that's what I

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00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:15.839
was thinking too, Pennsylvania. I
know, with all these charges, you

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would think that maybe because he is
you know this history, he writes,

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put away, maybe in a prison. But no, Batty dropped the charges.

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Oh Batty, Well, she didn't
show up for the preliminary hearing and

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Gary was free to walk away.
Oh. I mean he not only beaten

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rape Betty, but he would deprive
her of food. It's just fucking sick.

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I dude, I hate people.
Come on, I know this is

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only the beginning. Yeah, oh
yeah. She did eventually get pregnant because

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at some point after even though she
didn't show up for the preliminary hearing,

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she did file a child suport claim
against him, so that would make it

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Gary's third child. After his short
lived marriage to Betty, that's when he

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began kidnapping women and using them as
sex slaves. Oh crowd. He later

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on would blame the fact that Betty
had left him and you know, yeah,

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it made his blood boil, so
he had to make up for it

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somehow. He particularly targeted women of
color and sex workers. And I'm gonna

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00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:32.519
tell you about the first victim as
soon as we get back from them commercial

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break. The first of his victims
was a woman named Josephina Rivera. She

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was twenty five at the time she
disappeared. Gary kidnapped her on November twenty

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00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:52.079
fifth of nineteen eighty six. She
was a sex worker. He offered twenty

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00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:56.039
dollars to have sex with him,
and she agreed to go to his house.

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00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.960
He had already plans for what he
was going to do with her.

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00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:04.240
After they both got to his house, he hit her, he raped her,

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and then he chained her up in
the basement. The basement wasn't an

249
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ordinary basement, man. Gary dug
a hole in the basement floor, and

250
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:22.079
just so you know, he would
throw women in this hole to stay.

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00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:26.599
It was pretty deep. Oh yeah, it was a deep hole. Yeah,

252
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.480
it wasn't as deep as Silence of
the Lambs, but it was deep

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where they couldn't climb out. Yes, they could not climb out. Gary

254
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:41.440
put muffler clamps around Josephina's ankles and
put nuts on the clamps, you know,

255
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so she absolutely can't Yeah, to
ensure she couldn't get free. And

256
00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.720
then he would also use crazy glue
on them. He did not want her

257
00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.279
to be able to get free.
And when you're using in crazy glue,

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00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:56.720
you can't just undo the clamps easy
either. When Josephina was secured in the

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00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:02.559
hole, it's so bad. Gary
put plywood over the opening of the hole

260
00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:07.319
and he placed huge bags filled with
dirt on top of it. So she's

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00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:11.000
in pitch black, pitch black scar
Yeah, it's probably freezing in there too,

262
00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:14.920
Yeah, in the basement. Yeah, I mean, it's Philadelphia yeah,

263
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it's horrible. Where Josephina was chained
wasn't wasn't very big. Like I

264
00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:22.720
said, It's deep, but it
wasn't really all that big. She had

265
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:26.400
to bend herself like a pretzel to
fit in there. So again, it's

266
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:29.759
not like Silence of the Lambs,
where there was room and lots of room.

267
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.039
I mean, once he put the
boards on top, she had to

268
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.839
like bend down. When he wanted
to use an abuser, he would pull

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00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:41.039
her out of the hole by her
hair. He'd beat her with a stick

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and rape her, and then he
would throw her back in the hole.

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Every time she heard him approaching,
obviously, she would freak out. Josephina

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00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:52.279
was sure she was going to be
murdered and then no one would ever discover

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what happened to her body. After
two days in captivity, she came to

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00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:03.640
the realization of why she was actually
kidnapped. Josephina was told by Gary that

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00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.279
she was to produce lots of kids
from home. No. Yes, He

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00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:12.359
told her that he had kids already, but the state kept taking them away,

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00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:17.119
and he said to her quote,
well I got away now of having

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00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:19.160
kids, so nobody can take them
away, and you're just the start.

279
00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:25.920
You're gonna have my baby down there, but not just you. I want

280
00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:30.839
to get ten girls here so you
all can have my kids and he won't

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00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:34.880
want to have a baby, farmer, what's he gonna do with these tens?

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00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:38.119
These women are in holes? Like
I mean, this is is not

283
00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:45.519
well thought out thing. What the
hell? Josephina couldn't believe this was actually

284
00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:51.319
happening, and this was some plan
that he wanted and believed he could go

285
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:56.559
through and it would succeed. But
she was a bit relieved that he didn't

286
00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:59.559
want her, right at least he's
not going to kill her. He needed

287
00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:03.599
her a lot. Gary was trying
to enslave these ten women to create what

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00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:07.319
he thought was the perfect race.
All of his victims were black women,

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00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:12.839
and he strongly believed that the races
would eventually be mixed and then there would

290
00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:18.200
be only one race about a hundred
years in the future if he just mixed

291
00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:23.599
it all. He believed that white
people should absolutely mix with black people and

292
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:29.039
vice versa, and again, this
was a way to have the perfect human

293
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:33.559
being. He also thought that tall
people should procreate with short people, and

294
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:40.640
that short people should never procreate with
other short people because society needed to have

295
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:45.839
taller people. Gary is not well, this geneticist, So let's talk about

296
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:51.720
his next victim. On December third, he kidnapped Sandra Lindsay when she was

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00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:56.319
only twenty four years old. She
was mentally disabled. She was kidnapped on

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her way to a grocery store.
He ended up convincing her to come to

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his home, and then when she
got there, he chained her up,

300
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just like he did Josephina. While
the two women were together. And when

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00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.640
I say chained up, so there's
this hole in the basement, but there's

302
00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:19.279
also he's got other places to chain
them. And sometimes he would squeeze two

303
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:23.160
women in that toll that I already
said was small. Sometimes he would just

304
00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:27.599
chain them up. So these two
women were together and Gary would rape them,

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00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:33.160
and he would make each woman watch
the other woman be ripe, and

306
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:34.920
you know, it's really messed up. Is the reason why Sandra came to

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00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:40.680
Gary's home was because she was a
member of this church. Oh no,

308
00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:47.559
and I told her she was mentally
only a few weeks later, December twenty

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00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:51.319
second, he kidnapped another woman.
She was a nineteen year old single mother.

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Her name was Lisa Thomas. Lisa
was lured by Gary while she was

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00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.480
walking and it was really cold out. He offered her a ride. She

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00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:04.480
accepted it. He bought Lisa some
food because she was down and out in

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00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:08.519
her luck, and he drove her
back to his house and offered her come

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00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:11.240
to my house. We'll have a
glass of wine. And he seemed like

315
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:15.640
a really nice guy. And she
was having a hard time that glass of

316
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:21.000
wine. He slipped her some drugs
in it and made her unconscious, and

317
00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:23.440
then he raped her. And when
she woke up, she was chained up

318
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:30.799
in the basement next to Josephina and
Sandra. When she became conscious, Gary

319
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:33.839
came down and he offered them all
some sandwich as he made. Oh here

320
00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:41.119
made ladies some food. What a
nice man. On January one of nineteen

321
00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:45.839
eighty seven, this is like boom, boom boom, Deborah Dudley was kidnapped.

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00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:51.240
Deborah was feisty and Gary was taken
aback when she started defending herself.

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As she was brought to the basement, she would talk back. She would

324
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:59.359
also defend the other women in the
basement. Through the next few days,

325
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:03.200
so she was eating more and she
was putting the hole more than the other

326
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:07.599
women. Gary was often humiliated by
her because she did talk back, and

327
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.559
it really pissed him off. And
you like, don't want to piss a

328
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:18.519
crazy fucking psycho off, right,
He began making the captives eat dog food

329
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:23.279
instead of bringing them sandwiches and forcing
them to have sex with each other.

330
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:30.559
We gave Gary the idea to feed
his victims dog food was because every now

331
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:34.000
and then he would allow the women
to watch a little TV that he brought

332
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:37.720
down, and some were able to
watch it, others were putting what he

333
00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:41.640
called a time out. One time, while watching TV, one of them,

334
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.000
one of the captives I don't I
don't know which one, was watching

335
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:49.440
a dog food commercial. And keep
in mind, they're not fed very much,

336
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:52.279
and she said that looks good enough
to eat, because I mean,

337
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:56.960
they were pretty much always starving.
They were at his mercy. So that's

338
00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:00.759
when Gary decided, okay, dog
food is. Since thinks it's good enough

339
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:04.240
to eat, I'm gonna give her
dog food. Eventually, Debrah was murdered.

340
00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:10.119
He was sick of her defying him, so he put her in the

341
00:28:10.119 --> 00:28:15.519
pit, chained up, and he
filled a pit with water in front of

342
00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:23.000
the other girls. He forced Josephina
to stick a live wire yeah in the

343
00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:30.200
chains an electrocuted Debra to death.
The amount of torture these women went through

344
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:37.359
cannot be explained. They were naked, chained, beaten, rate for ste

345
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:41.400
have sex with each other, starved, and the pit was just, you

346
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:44.240
know, the worst thing. And
Debrah was putting that pit for a while.

347
00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:45.880
I mean when he put him in
a pit, we're not talking about

348
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:51.000
an hour. Sometimes it was days. And so yeah, he filled it

349
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:57.079
with water and then made the other
woman, Josephina, electrocute Debra. After

350
00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:03.039
Debra's death, Gary made some changes. He purchased a portable toilet and he

351
00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:07.160
allowed the women to use tampons.
He also began allowing them to Bathe really

352
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:10.559
not because he cared about them,
but he wanted them clean. They were

353
00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:15.640
getting I mean they it's getting getting
gainey. Yeah, and he wanted them

354
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:19.440
clean when he would rape them.
Now that he murdered Deborah, he had

355
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:25.119
to replace her, so he kidnapped
another victim, Jacqueline Askins, And this

356
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:30.519
is on January eighteenth, nineteen eighty
seven. Jacqueline was only eighteen years old

357
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.920
at the time of her kidnapping.
When she was kidnapped. There was a

358
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:38.440
single toilet down in the basement where
Gary kept his captives. There was no

359
00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:41.920
plumbing for the toilet. It's just
gross, and it's just gross. That's

360
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.119
why he ended up getting the portable
one. The women would whimper, of

361
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.480
course when they heard Gary comming,
because they knew someone was going to be

362
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:52.200
beaten and someone was going to be
raped, and they were tortured. They

363
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.039
were all tortured and want to tell
you about it because it's coming up.

364
00:29:56.240 --> 00:30:03.440
It's just it's so bad. He
didn't like how the women were now crying

365
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:07.759
and I mean they have PTSD and
they're they're in shock. Oh they want

366
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:11.680
He wanted them to be happy he
was coming. This is bad. Yeah.

367
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:15.200
He gouged out their ear drums with
a screwdriver what so that way they

368
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:22.880
couldn't hear him coming and start whimpering. Oh my god, it's bad,

369
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:30.759
it's bad, it's so bad.
There are many times when the women misbehaved

370
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:36.559
and they would be severely punished.
Sandra was caught trying to take the plywood

371
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:41.680
from over the covering of the pit. She's trying to escape. This made

372
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:47.000
him so angry. Tanya so angry
that he hung her by her wrists from

373
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:52.000
a beam. He hung her there
for a week? What a week?

374
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:56.079
A week? Oh, it must
have been so painful. Before this even

375
00:30:56.119 --> 00:31:00.160
happened, she was already sick.
She had some sort of infection and she

376
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:04.400
had a fever. I mean,
so she's weak. She was given only

377
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:11.759
pieces of bread to eat while hanging
each day. Eventually she was removed from

378
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:15.559
the beam. But that's because she
died. Oh no, yes, When

379
00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:19.119
he realized she was dead, he
took her lifeless body from the beam,

380
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:23.359
brought it upstairs and I can't this
is going to be this is real,

381
00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:30.000
gruesome, guys. He dismembered her
with a power saul. Then he boiled

382
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:34.960
her flesh. He put it in
a food processor, mix it up with

383
00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:38.119
dog food. Oh no, don't
tell me, please, don't stop.

384
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:44.559
He fed the food to his dogs. No, but remember he also fed

385
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:49.519
dog food to his captives. He
fed Sandra to the remaining victims as well,

386
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:56.920
And actually he did the same with
Deborah Sports. Both women had been

387
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:07.119
boiled and what a sec food processor
and fed to the other women. How

388
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:10.519
did I not know this story?
I don't know the survivors because there are

389
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:17.519
survivors later stated they'll never forget the
smell of boiling flash. And when he

390
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:25.119
fed Deborah and Sandra to the other
women mixed with that dog food, they

391
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:31.440
did know that what they were eating. But you can't judge them there starving.

392
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:35.240
They're starving and if he did,
if they didn't eat it, who

393
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.880
knows what he would have done to
them. They just watched a woman being

394
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:45.240
hanged for seven days until she died, So like judging is, it's not

395
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:50.480
okay. He cooked on one of
the women's ribs in the oven. He

396
00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:54.200
cooked that both of the heads on
the stove, and the smell was really

397
00:32:54.279 --> 00:33:00.559
bad, and the neighbors called the
police. I'm gonna so the police came

398
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:05.160
because that's how bad it is,
and the police knocked on his door.

399
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:09.880
They questioned Gary. He said that
he burned a roast and lost track,

400
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.480
just lost track of time, and
he burned a roast. The women,

401
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:19.680
as I said, they'd been starred
and they either had to eat or die

402
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:23.200
from starvation. That's how much he
didn't feed them. Wow, And that

403
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:30.240
was basically all they were given during
their captivity was some bread, dog food,

404
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:35.240
and dog food mixed with other victims. One of the survivors would later

405
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:39.480
say, quote, if it wasn't
for me eating her or eating dog food,

406
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:45.920
I wouldn't be here today. God, what a fucking choice. I

407
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:51.160
don't know. Oh my god.
And then like I said, if you

408
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:59.079
don't do it, it's bad.
That's really bad. On top of all

409
00:33:59.079 --> 00:34:05.880
the rape and torture, he made
Josephina beat the others while he watched.

410
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:10.159
But see, Josephina was I don't
know how to say it, but trying

411
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:14.960
to play a game. She was
trying to get on his good side with

412
00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:21.920
the hope that she could escape and
save everybody else. So she did what

413
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:27.320
she had to do in the hopes
of eventually her being able to get out

414
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:30.880
and save everybody. Not because she
really enjoyed it, that's my opinion.

415
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:36.480
I read a lot about it,
that's my opinion. So Josephina's made it

416
00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:40.000
beat the other girls, and he
would watch, and she started paying attention,

417
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:46.320
and she began to really figure out
how Gary worked. She was really

418
00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:53.159
good at judging what motivated him and
what didn't, and she was extremely motivated

419
00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:58.119
to get the hell out of this
hell hole and live. So she studied

420
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:02.119
him basically his everyday pad and Gary
had told her his dreams of one day

421
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:07.760
having ten children, and she dreamed
of escaping. But she didn't obviously tell

422
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:13.639
him that. She knew Gary wanted
a true connection with someone, even though

423
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:17.599
Gary's all shaved the fuck up,
so she played into it. He treated

424
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:23.599
obviously everybody horribly. But one of
the weaknesses she noticed in Gary is that

425
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:30.280
Gary really wanted the women to give
a fuck about him. He wanted them

426
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:35.679
to view him as a person.
Josephina thought that is why he got so

427
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:40.000
pissed off whenever the women would try
to escape like Sandra, or talk back

428
00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:46.679
to him or hurt his feelings.
It really that was like what triggered him.

429
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:50.960
He just wanted to be loved.
He just wanted to be loved to

430
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:57.320
Leaf. Yeah, how come they
didn't love him? Josephina was completely repulsed

431
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:01.159
by him, but she decided the
best way to survive was to try to

432
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:05.800
be his friend. She began to
do everything that he asked of her,

433
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:09.639
and as I said, this was
beating and torturing the other women. She

434
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:15.800
would always validate his feelings and make
him believe that she understood why he was

435
00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:21.480
doing what he did. This paid
off Josephina was allowed to go upstairs.

436
00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:24.679
Oh yes, she was granted more
privileges, and on one point she was

437
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:29.679
allowed to cook from Wow. The
two would watch movies together. Oh,

438
00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:34.039
this poor woman, But as soon
as the movie was done, she would

439
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:38.960
be sent back to the hole.
Really, so she's getting some punishment even

440
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:45.320
though she's getting to him like he
would punish her. Josephina could have escaped.

441
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:50.920
I mean, she was unchained and
allowed upstairs, but she thought,

442
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:55.159
if I take off running, he
will go and kill the other women before

443
00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:00.679
I have a chance to save them. She was really nice of her.

444
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:05.639
She knew that he would immediately go
down to the hole and kill the other

445
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:09.719
women without a second thought, and
to her, she just couldn't do it.

446
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:14.840
So she continued to play the game
and gain more and more of his

447
00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:17.360
trust, and it worked. She
played the game so well, in fact,

448
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:22.559
Tanya, that she was eventually able
to convince Gary to take her home

449
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:27.960
what to visit her family so she
could say her final goodbyes and just be

450
00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:31.280
with Gary and have all those babies. Wow. She told Gary that she

451
00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:36.320
was going to be with him forever. She just needed one last goodbye to

452
00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:43.280
her family and Gary being fucking stupid. Said okay, that's crazy, and

453
00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:45.639
he took her back to the city
close to where she lived, and he

454
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:51.719
parked at a gas station that was
in a couple blocks of her family's home.

455
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:55.159
The reason why he parked there,
that was Josephina's idea. She said

456
00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:00.440
she didn't want her family to be
able to identify his car, and she

457
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:04.400
didn't want him to get any trouble. Oh, that was smart because of

458
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:08.480
her disappearing and all that. So
he parked, She got out, and

459
00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:15.800
he told her she gets fifteen minutes. She nodded, okay and calmly walked

460
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:19.920
away. When she got out of
his sight, she went to the closest

461
00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:23.440
pay phone and dialed nine one one
Wow. She called the nine one one

462
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:30.679
operator and said that five other women
had been kidnapped and said to the dispatcher

463
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:35.599
that if Gary was able to get
away, the rest of the captives would

464
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:39.079
be murdered. On March twenty three, in nineteen eighty seven, Gary was

465
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:45.119
arrested while he was in the car
at the gas station waiting for Josephina to

466
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:50.440
come back the wild Wow. What
I didn't tell you is that earlier that

467
00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:54.920
day he'd kidnapped another woman that same
day, twenty four year old Agnes Adams.

468
00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:05.079
Luckily she was laid freed. Yeah, the police came and they ended

469
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:10.360
up freeing all the women that were
still left Brother Bishop's Church. They were

470
00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:15.880
pretty upset by all this. They
were so dementa Tanya, I mean,

471
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:22.119
it just shocked everyone. It is
horrific. He was in a rowhouse too.

472
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:24.920
How does this neighbors not know what's
going on? They were in the

473
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:31.239
basement, them, they were in
the basement. One person stated it was

474
00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:35.199
one of the most heineous crimes I've
ever heard of. It's a memory that

475
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:37.199
I'll never forget, and the thought
of it is still with me to this

476
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:43.000
day. I will never forget the
coverage of what the police found inside.

477
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:47.000
The police gat us search weren't and
when the agents entered, they discovered the

478
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:53.800
remains of two deceased women, parts
of their body in a freezer inside containers

479
00:39:53.840 --> 00:40:00.920
labeled dog food. Oh my god. On the stove, they discovered a

480
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:05.920
severed head still inside a pot.
Are you fucking kidding me? No.

481
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:09.679
They also found three women chained up
in very bad shape. They were naked,

482
00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:15.159
beaten, blooding, and malnourished.
But free. Yeah, you're gonna

483
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:20.280
hate this, Tanya. Okay.
Gary's trial began in June of nineteen eighty

484
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:23.719
eight, and you know what his
defense was. The women were already there

485
00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:29.960
when he moved into the house.
Shut the fuck up. What? Yes,

486
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:34.199
he had a lawyer. Yes,
they went with this. Yes.

487
00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:39.719
When Gary told his attorney about feeding
the dead victims to the girls, his

488
00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:44.840
attorney, his name was Charles Prudo
Junior, made a sick joke by asking,

489
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:49.519
quote, what seasoning did you use? Oh? No, that guy

490
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:52.079
really has no soul. What the
fuck is that? I don't know,

491
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:58.320
some public defender that couldn't get a
real chick defense public defenders. Yeah.

492
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:02.159
In the end, Gary ever admitted
to actually doing anything wrong, and they

493
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:07.559
did try the insanity defense, but
because Gary's IQ was so high, they

494
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:13.079
said he knew right from wrong,
even though he was schizophrenic, his mother

495
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:16.800
was not well, and his brother
was insane. Gary had an explanation for

496
00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:22.280
every evil thing he did, and
he remained completely calm during the process.

497
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:29.880
His attorney had suggested to him that
he not bathed for months and not from

498
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:34.599
his beard and let his mustache grow
out to really give the appearance that he

499
00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:37.880
was insane. In the end,
though, Gary was convicted of two counts

500
00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:43.360
of first green murder, five counts
of abduction, and four counts of aggravated

501
00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:46.719
assault. This was a Keppel murder
case, so he was sensed to death

502
00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:52.280
by lethal injection. His execution was
scheduled for April fifteenth, nineteen ninety seven,

503
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:57.360
but there was last minute an appeal
that was filed and it was regarding

504
00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:04.079
Gary's mental competence. On July sixth, nineteen ninety nine, Gary was executed

505
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:07.440
by a lethal injection and he was
the last person to be put to death

506
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:14.760
in the state of Pennsylvania. Wow. The DA never pressed charges on Josephina

507
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:19.440
for being involved with the murder of
Debra since she was the one that saved

508
00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:23.599
in the end, and to them, that was the sickest type of torture

509
00:42:23.679 --> 00:42:28.599
anybody could habitually be forced to kill
somebody else. It's just so sad.

510
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:32.920
When Gary was executed, the remaining
victims were invited to attend. Jacqueline did

511
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.440
attend, so did Sandra and Deborah's
family. Sandra's sister said quote, I

512
00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:40.599
went to the execution, but it
was too calm and serene for me.

513
00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:45.960
I'm thinking execution is something like turn
around and let me shoot you. Instead,

514
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:47.519
they just stuck a needle in his
arm. He never looked at us,

515
00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:52.800
never acknowledged us, never said he
was sorry. He didn't say anything.

516
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:54.840
He didn't even look at our direction. Do you want to know what

517
00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:59.159
the last meal was? Yeah,
you can read it, because we like

518
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:02.760
to know that prior to him dying
he had. His last meal is two

519
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:07.719
slices of cheese, pizza and some
coffee. That's it. Yeah, I

520
00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:12.639
guess he wasn't all that fucking hungry, Tanya. Crimes of what Gary did

521
00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:16.559
were so fucked up in Amena they
actually inspired Hollywood writers to think of the

522
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:22.920
role of Buffalo Bill in the movie
Silence of the Lamps. Yes, there

523
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:24.960
was a quote later from Jacqueline,
one of the survivors, when she was

524
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:30.079
interviewed, and in regards to Josephina, she said, quote, she killed

525
00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:32.480
Debbie and we all could have gotten
out of their live. There was a

526
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:37.079
lot of stuff she did that she
didn't have to. I just thought she

527
00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:39.559
took on her serial killer ideal too. She was the oldest, she was

528
00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:43.639
supposed to protect us, even though
she was in a bad situation. She

529
00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:47.280
was supposed to protect us. Quote. I don't think that's fair to Josephina.

530
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:51.760
I wasn't there. I don't know. I know she ended up seeing

531
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:54.840
what she did. I know.
I'm not blaming josephina I there are so

532
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:59.840
many more, Like when you read
three hundred pages of a book of the

533
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:05.920
constant torture an abused that these women
went through. It's seriously one of the

534
00:44:05.960 --> 00:44:12.079
worst cases. You can imagine a
pit an abasement, any like that being

535
00:44:12.199 --> 00:44:17.280
fed and humans broke their ear drums
with the fucking screwdriver. I don't Yeah,

536
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:22.519
it's bad, so bad. Oh, t Lea, this is just

537
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:27.800
messed up. Yeah, that is
the story of Gary Hyde. I'm glad

538
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:31.639
he's dead. Yeah, although I
know the family really didn't get any satisfaction

539
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:36.159
from it. But wow, thanks
for that to Leah. That was fucked.

540
00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:39.199
I appreciate you guys taking them time
to listen there. Like I said,

541
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:45.480
there was even more details that I
just laughed out because I think I

542
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:49.800
shared enough. But if you haven't
done so already, please hit the subscribe

543
00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:52.960
slash follow button on your favorite app. It seems so wrong to say that,

544
00:44:52.039 --> 00:45:00.360
I know, seems so wrong.
And you can also if you saying

545
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:05.079
the word enjoy, if you enjoy
listening to this. We have our Patreon,

546
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:07.320
Paige. You can go to it's
patreon dot com slash T and T

547
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:14.760
and those are the letters T and
T crimes and you can get one episode

548
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:19.960
every week that's exclusive for our paid
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549
00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:23.599
this ad free and you can get
the same on your Apple podcast by subscribing

550
00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:28.199
to us. You can also go
to our website, Crimes and Consequences dot

551
00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:34.400
com and listen. And we have
Facebook and Instagram at Hardcore True Crime.

552
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:37.559
Haven't been doing much on that lately
because we're busy, busy people. Yeah,

553
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:43.280
but we're gonna get to that Sunday, we will soon promise. Yeah,

554
00:45:43.480 --> 00:45:46.480
life's just got a lot going on
going on. I think this is

555
00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:52.000
everything you think. So yeah,
well, thank you everybody for honestly listening

556
00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:54.679
to this. I hope you guys
have a great Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,

557
00:45:54.719 --> 00:46:00.440
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, or
Sunday, whatever day it is exactling

558
00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:02.199
until our next episode. Just don't
kill each other. Bye,