You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. Welcome back to the Doctor
Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty. Were live everywhere on the iHeartRadio
app. I am loving this show so far because it is filled with such
inspirational people who have so many inspirational stories to tell about how they are worthy
of love and how they found love. And I have a very very special
guest, and you're gonna have to forgive me Skyler, because I am going
to fan girl for a moment on the air. Skyler Baylor is an internationally
known inspirational speaker, author, an advocate for trans inclusion, radical body acceptance,
and mental health awareness. In fact, Skyler Baylor is the first transgender
athlete to compete in any sport on an NCAA Division One men's team. I'm
gonna throw out the H word because you're too shy, Scarler Skyler Harvard and
uh. Basically, he has made history and is now devoting his life to
helping everybody else understand trans people. His new book out now simply called He
She They How We talk about gender and Why it matters, is out right
now and this year. Because I follow you very closely on Instagram Skyler,
he fell in love and married a beautiful bride. Welcome to the show,
Skyler Baylor. Thank you so much for having me, Doctor Wendy. I'm
excited to be here. So let us start with a little bit about the
struggles that trans people might have in general about finding love. I've talked to
a number of trans people and it's, you know, pretty clinically proven that
when someone affirms their gender, their sexual orientation doesn't necessarily change, and this
can cause all kinds of confusion. Do you want to expand on that for
me? Yeah? Sure, I mean I think that a lot of people
assume that everybody beneath the LGBTQ plus umbrella has the same identity, right,
And the reality is that there's both gender diversity and sexuality diversity, and just
because somebody is trans doesn't also mean that they are gay, and they can
be There are trans people that come in all different types of sexualities, right,
So there are gay trans people, but it doesn't mean that that,
you know, one sexuality has to be also queer if one is trans,
and people often conflate those two things. So when I came out as trans,
a lot of people would sort of reduce my identity, either thinking oh,
well, aren't you just a butch lesbian, Skylar, or they would
assume that I was somehow still queer, somehow still gay. Now I do
identify as queer as well, but that's not necessarily because of my transness.
So I don't know if they answered your question hopefully did Yeah? I mean,
I think the great example that people might be able to identify with is
Kitlyn Jenner. Caitlyn Jenner, you know, affirmed her identity and dates women
as she did when she was Bruce Jenner for the first part of her life,
right, so her sexual orientation didn't necessarily change. So the other I
would say, challenge and please correct me, Skyler, because it's your job
to educate all of us if I use the wrong language anywhere, because we're
all getting up to speed together as a culture. Sure, but one of
the other challenges is basic anatomy, and I teach my students that it is
nobody's business what the anatomy is unless they's somebody's lover and it's time to talk
about it. Right, But do trans people in your experience have nervousness challenges,
worried, shame, about having that conversation with a potential date. Well,
you know, I think we should back up a little bit and actually
speak about the stereotype, stigma, belief systems, assumptions that people have about
not only just trans people, but relationships in general. I think people have
this expectation that, you know, a they should know what's you know,
under somebody's pants if they're trans, and they should be able to have access
to that conversation as early as they want to have that conversation, when in
reality, you know, I think we all have to discover what another person's
body is like if we choose to date them, and we should all have
an open mind while doing so, and we should always have conversations about what
physical intimacy looks like no matter who we are or what our body makeup is.
People forget that there is also biological diversity within biological sex for people who
are not trans. Right, you don't know what you're working with until you're
working with it, And I think we have to really take a step back
to remember that. You know, first of all, trans people are not
this category of complete otherness that has to be dissected like some sort of science
experiment, and really the most important conversation is about consent, about open about
curiosity, and about humanity. So well said, I want to remind you
and tell the general public that biological diversity, it's estimated, is what intersects
people are about one percent or one in one hundred who actually have anatomical features,
either internal structures or external structures that may have pieces of a number of
genders. So you're right, and as we know, even what we call
typical genital anatomy, when you meet it under the covers for the first time,
there's still a diversity and a range that people meet. And so you're
right. Yeah, and that two percent, it's actually more close to two
percent, at least in the research that I've read. And I think people
need to understand how significant two percent of population is because a lot of people
think, okay, two percent, that's like nobody, that's only you know,
two out of one hundred or one out of one hundred, like the
number you cited. But the reality is that that's the same frequency of green
eyed people, the same frequency of red haired people, the same amount of
people in the world that are Russian. And so these are actually massive amounts
of the population and again, like you noted, it's not just within this
category that would be referred to as intersects, as people who don't have you
know, genetics or anatomy or biological characteristics that meet these little neat boxes of
male and female. But there's diversity within people who are within these supposed categories,
right. Not everybody looks exactly the same. Not everybody's body parts are
exactly the same, even if they are, you know, within these neat
little categories supposedly right of male and female. I do want to add also
indirect answer to your question about trans people and our nervousness, I had said,
let's back up and look at sort of the environment that we're living in.
I think that environment does have an impact on trans people, and a
lot of trans people are not only you know, believing that they might not
be worthy of love, but also told And it's a devastating amount of trans
people that have talked to me and said, hey, you know, the
first thing my mom or my dad or somebody said to me when I came
out was that, you know, I'm I. You know, how am
I going to find love? How am I ever going to get married?
How is anybody ever going to love you, And it's a it's a horrible
statement that people tell trans people these things, that we're not worthy of love,
or that you know, or even that the focus of our lives should
be about finding love, because maybe that's also not the sole focus of somebody's
life. But in any case, my point is that I think this amount
of systemic transphobia, or a system right called cis sexism but against systemic transphobia
that works reinforces this idea not only within non trans people, but also for
trans people that there's something about our transness that makes us less lovable, that
makes us not good enough. And I think that's a deeply disturbing, deeply
unkind belief that we have to learn to unpack and and and actually doesn't isn't
rooted in trans people, but rather those who perpetuate transphobia so largely non trans
people, and heartbreaking when I hear it, Scottli, We're going to go
to break and when we come back, I want to talk about your love
story because it was beautiful to us to bloom online and I want to hear
it through your voice. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show. This
is my special called Worthy of Love. My guest, Skyler Baylor, is
an internationally known speaker, author, and advocate for trans inclusion. You're listening
to KFI AM six forty on demand. Welcome back to this very special episode
of the Doctor Wendy Wall Show Worthy of Love. My guest, Skyler Baylor
is the author of the new book He She They How we talk about gender
and why it matters? Okay, Skyler, As I said, I followed
you on social media and I do encourage everybody who wants to know more about
this subject to follow Skyler Baylor. I think your instagram is called Pink Mantray.
Yes, that's correct, because you're on the swim team. I get
it, Pink Mantray. So Skyler, tell me about your you know,
your dating odyssey, if it will. What was it like and how did
you find love? How how did it all happen? Yeah, you know,
I've dated throughout my transition. I dated before my transition, and I
don't know how to wrap it up in a couple of sentences, but I
think I was always trying to be as true to myself and find somebody who
was aligned with with my with me and my life and my identities, and
I stumbled, I think a lot through college, trying to balance a lot
of different responsibilities and a lot of different learnings that I was undergoing, especially
in therapy and kind of learning about I don't know what the best way to
put it is, but I suppose my own history like unpacking my own trauma
and packing my own parts, trying to figure out how to best fit that
not only with myself, but in the presence of others, and whether that
be my close friends or romantic partners. I think it was all a journey
and it still is. And I think you know in your question the odyssey
to find love, that that always to me sounds like there's an end point.
Don't think that there is. So, yes, I'm married and I
have a lovely wife, and I think a really important relationship with my wife,
and we're never done, you know. I think we're always and this
is one of my favorite parts about our relationship. We're always iterating and figuring
out how we can be more of ourselves and then better for each other.
And so I don't feel like, you know, our love story is this
is this sort of like, Okay, I looked for love, I found
love and here I am. I've got it. It's more of a I'm
always in pursuit of alignment and that continues in my relationship with my wife.
You know, I always say most Hollywood romantic comedies and the movie at the
beginning of the story, right like, they find each other and they finally
get together, and now the actual work of love and the real story happens.
So I'm glad you understand that that we are two people in when they're
in partnership, are constantly evolving and constantly challenging each other, growing together sometimes,
growing apart sometimes and finding ways to continue to be in relationship to be
with each other. May I ask you about what it was like at the
beginning. You mentioned that you dated before your transition and during your transition.
What was the internal work for you and was it really about educating potential mates.
Did you find that most people were very open minded because of the environment
you were in. What was that like for you? You know, I
think it depended on the person and dependent on the moment. I think the
primary difference perhaps between me and some of my teammates, for example, who
were none of which were trans as well, was like you know, party
culture, hookup culture something that I really didn't participate in, whereas many of
my teammates did participate in that. And you know, it's hard to say
how much of that is solely my trans identity and how much of that just
didn't align with me. Most of my friends would call me a serial monogamist,
and I've always always in a not always, but whenever I was in
any kind of relationship, it was usually a committed relationship for you know,
a longer period of time relative to my peers, and so I think,
you know, I didn't tend towards hookup culture, and part of that was
my trans identity. I was nervous about having a conversation about my body and
about my anatomy, and didn't know how or when to have that conversation at
a party or or you know, in places that would lend itself to a
to a hookup of kinds. And I think I just didn't feel aligned with
with that type of interaction. I'm a very relational person, and I'm a
very serious person in many ways. In fact, I've been accused for most
of my life of being quote too serious, and I used to take that
as an insult. And I no longer do, because I this is just
how I am, And if I don't joke enough for you, then that's
okay. We're just not in alignment. So I think, you know,
I learned a lot about the kinds of people I wanted to be around.
I learned a lot about myself through some of these stumbling relationships. I learned
a lot about self worth as well. I think, you know, it
was easy for me, especially early in my transition, to accept relationships,
be it romantic or platonic, relationships that were not sufficient, that did not
meet enough alignment criteria, if you will, but that I was grateful enough
to just have at all, because I felt so unlovable in many ways,
and I was fearful that if I didn't accept the sort of bare minimum or
even below honestly from my peers or from certain romantic partners, that I would
never you know, find better. And so often I think I accepted subpar
interactions from folks. And I don't really blame others, and I don't really
blame myself either. I think it was a process for me to go through.
I think it was very painful. There were certain relationships I wish I
had left sooner, and at the same time, I learned so much about
how to care for myself. I think throughout those those interactions and I'm grateful
for where I am today and that's a product of where I was then.
Well, Skyler, I will tell you that your story sounds typical for all
humans that as we grow up, we learn what works for us and what
doesn't, and we all look back and say, why did I date that
person right as we were learning as we were growing up. I am so
happy for you. I am so proud of you that you have this book
out. I hope it is a number one bestseller everywhere. A reminder the
book is called He She They how we talk about gender and why it matters.
If you're looking for it, just follow Skyler on all his social media.
It is pink Manta Ray because he is an amazing swimmer from the Harvard
swim team. And now, are you full time working in this area to
just continue to educate people? Yeah, I'm a full time advocate, educator,
and author. This is my work all day, every day. I
would say that my work has exp and in its intersectionality and it's and and
sort of my striving for intersectional liberation, which really means collective liberation. I
think oftentimes when we talk about trans people, or people of color, or
or you know, any marginalized group, we often think of that group in
a silo alone. But the reality is, for example, with trans related
conversations, everybody has a gender, and therefore everybody has been limited by gender,
not just trans people. And I think we can all understand that when
we liberate even any marginalized group we don't share an identity with, we can
liberate everybody. So I'm much more in a fight for collective liberation these days.
Of course, trans identity is a centerpiece for me, but but I
think we have to always remember and this is something I want listeners to also
think about. Oftentimes, when I talk to people from marginalized backgrounds, they'll
put the onus or the pain or the stigma on their identity. And people
will say, well, it's because i'm trans that people don't love me,
or it's because i'm trans that I have to navigate the situation differently. It's
because I'm trans that dating is hard, And I always like to remind people
that language we use is really important. It's not because I'm trans that things
are hard. It's because of transphobia that things are hard. Right. The
systems of oppression are the reasons that we struggle and the reasons that we hurt.
It's not because of our beautiful, magnificent identities that the world wants to
marginalize. So well said, Thank you so much, such a pleasure to
meet you, Skyler Baylor. Thanks for being here, Thank you for having
me. When we come back, another group that has sometimes challenges in the
dating world are those who are not neurotypical, those that naturally miss some social
cues. When we come back, we're going to meet a dating coach who
used to be a special ed teacher in high school, and then she learned
that mostly her students wanted to know how to date, so she became a
wingwoman, if you will, for young people dating with autism. You're listening
to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. Were live everywhere
the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. Welcome
back to the Doctor Wendywall Show KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on
the iHeartRadio app. I am thrilled to introduce my next guest on are Worthy
of Love Special Mandy Staylor is a special education teacher. I've known many special
education teachers in my life because I have a daughter who's not neurotypical. But
she saw a need after seeing so many I'm sure teenage boys and girls ask
questions about dating, she saw a need for a dating coach for people who
are neurodiverse. So, armed with an MBA, a teaching degree, and
experience as a companion for a people who are neurodiverse, and the fact that
she'd spent a lot of her adult life in the dating arena. Although she
did finally meet her husband on Match dot Com, she knows that courtship isn't
easy. I would like to welcome Mandy Staler. Welcome Mandy. Thank you,
Wendy. So tell me about how you got into coaching, specifically people
who are a neurodivergent. Well, as you mentioned, I started off,
you know, in high school and teaching students through twenty one and then I
feel like we sent move into the world right And there's so many things that
I think people need more support in that transition, and dating is one of
them. I know that I spent ten years of dating online between a few
questionably stable relationships, and it's so hard. And I think I'm socially capable,
right, and so I think I had some tools. I kind of
knew some of those rules that are always kind of unclear, and I just
think if I had a really hard time, lots of other people, you
know, could be having that hard time. I was fortunate to have some
of my friends kind of my online accountability buddies, and so it really just
kind of came together. Also, I've heard a lot of clients say that
they were actually turned away for disclosing their neurodiversions. And I think that it's
just sometimes other coaches or a number of people who provide, you know,
one on one support, they just feel they're unequipped. I don't think they're
unequipped. I just think they haven't learned that yet. Yes, exactly,
And so I don't know. It was just kind of something I started.
So your company is called Dating with Autism. How do you work with clients?
Well, Uh, it's certainly changes person to person, because honestly,
some people just want me to go along with them and they're online dating.
They want me to look at their profile, the messages they're sending, things
like that somebody wants uh, sometimes people want to date somebody really specific.
I will say one person actually just wanted to find a roommate and they just
couldn't find anybody else to hang out with them. I think relationships are you
know, the basis of relationships are pretty similar. Yeah, and so perspective
ticket really is individualized. I'll say them right now, as they've been a
dating coach for quite some time, it's actually harder and harder for me to
find enough time for all of these one on one clients. So I do
really focus on kind of my small group relationships classes. I use a curriculum
out of UCLA actually coach you called peers, and that's been helpful. But
overall, it's just really important to everybody as themselves. And because I don't
want to change anyone, masking is a pretty important topic. People sometimes feel
that need to change themselves in order to fit into our neurotypical world. And
I don't want anybody to change who they are, so really just making sure
that it's their goals for whatever they want to do, as long as they
remain authentic to themselves. That's what's important to me. Tell me about your
greatest success story. Has anyone found love? Actually, yeah, so I've
got a few people who have found love, But I do want to say
that as excited as I am when people have love success, I'm really stoked
when people find success for themselves. I know a man in South Carolina and
he just loved He just loved himself after everything. And I think what we
really had worked on is unlocking his confidence and that you know, he's it's
okay that he's different. I didn't want to change him, and I don't.
He didn't change himself. He just kind of felt a way to be
himself and he's really happy. And he's had a few first dates and none
of them have actually panned out. They will because he's fantastic. Mandy.
What advice do you give to parents of teenagers who might be neurodivergent? Great
question. So I think first and foremost that the neurodiverse community is more than
twice as likely to be a member of the lg BTQ plus community. And
I think that that's really important because parents sometimes can inadvertently make suggestions to find
a girlfriend or a boyfriend, and they don't necessarily know how much more likely
this is. And I also just think that it is important because sometimes members
of the neurodiverse community don't see as much of that representation in our everyday life
as they should, and it can make people a lot more confused when there's
already enough confusing things about the dating world as it is. And before we
go, what is the number one dating tip that you have for all of
us, including people who are neurodivergent? Great question. Be yourself and know
that whoever you have made your choice of a person to be with dating is
a choice for them too. If it's not the right person for you,
just move on. There are so many people out there and somebody is not
giving you what you need back, go and find somebody who will. Everybody
is worthy and deserving them love. Mandy Staylor. What's your website for people
to go and find out more about you? And with Autism dot com?
Dating with Autism dot Com. Mandy Staylor, thank you so much for joining
us. You're listening to the Doctor Wendywallh Show on KFI AM six forty.
We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to KFI AM six forty
on demand AFI AM six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you.
This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. We are in the home stretch of
my special called Worthy of Love. Before I introduce my next guest, who
prefers to remain anonymous, I want to tell you some sobering statistics about America.
Here in this country, we incarcerate more people than anywhere else in the
world. According to the Department of Justice, one in twenty Americans will experience
incarceration at some point in their lifetime. An overwhelming amount of men versus women
experience incarceration therefore, one or about nine percent, according to the Department of
Justice. So ladies, think of it that way. Almost one in ten
men that you meet on a dating app or in the real world have experienced
prison life, and these men are highly stigmatized. Now I should also say
the overwhelming amount of convictions are non violent therefore, financial crimes, drugs,
weed. I mean, I think about the people who serve time for marijuana,
and now it's legal mostly everywhere, and yet they're out there in the
mating marketplace, and women need to give them a chance. And so I
have a very brave guest who has joined me today. Thank you for being
here. You're welcome. So I got to get this off the tub,
like are you a hatchet murder or something like? Did you anything really bad?
No? No, no. It was a financial crime driven by entitlement
and arrogance and it poor judgment, poor judgment on judgment. Did you know
you were breaking the law? I didn't, but let's just say that the
entitlement went too far. I had a business partner that was high profile and
it just became quite a mess. So how much prison time did you serve?
I did one calendar year in prison. How old were you? I
was fifty seven? Wow. Wow, and you were a divorced man at
that time. Yes. Tell me about the hardest part of experiencing incarceration.
The hardest part has to be the shame, you know, the shame that
one feels, especially when it's public and in the press and your family feels
it. And I had two young, you know, young adult children who
had to go on the ride with me, as it were, and by
far the hardest thing was shame. And I'm sure that's a walk that you
experience every day. Yeah, it's you know, it comes up and occasionally
I'm out there and you know, meetings and in my life it comes up.
So how was your dating life? Did you date like as soon as
you got out of prison? No, no, no. I I had
taken advantage in prison of therapy and sort of spent a lot of time sort
of sort of just dealing with the shame and getting in touch with who I
was and thinking about authenticity. And when I get out of prison, I
took time to you know, reintegrate and get a job and you know,
get all that sort of an order, deal with my children. And then
I jumped on a dating app. And what was it like? Originally?
Initially like do you tell people like on the first text, the first phone
call? Like, what's the rule there? No, well, my therapist
has said that I needed to tell them on the first date. I did
tell them on some phone calls, and of course that didn't go very far.
They didn't show up the date. No, of course, not women,
you're so pecky. But then at the end of a date I would
tell them my circumstance and in most cases it ended you know, quite a
little rough, maybe badly. They would basically say what you know, it
was it ran the gamut. Sometimes they would say, you know, how
dare you? And you know it's like sometimes violating some kind of code,
and other cases they would just say, I can't handle it, and you
know this is not appropriate. And it was generally, you know, an
exit that I would try to do graciously, and I understood because you know,
even myself, when I thought of felons, I would have judgments.
So what advice would you give to people who've experienced incarceration? You know,
own up to who you are and what you did, if you know,
in prison, I met so many people who were in denial and making excuses,
and I think that that just that's not constructive to you know, becoming
a better person. And I really worked hard to you know, deal with
the shame and deal with my situation. And I really advise people to get
therapy and you know, really work hard to you know, grasp and accept
who you were. Now. The good news here this show is called Worthy
of Love for a reason. You found love. Tell me about the woman
you met. So I matched with a girl on bumble, a woman on
Bumble, and I was really excited and I got on the phone with her.
Your voice was really warm, and I could tell there was something special
there and it was COVID. So we ended up meeting outside for coffee,
and you know, usually in the date I talked about my circumstances at the
end of the day, and this one, the conversation ended up coming about
where we talked about at the beginning, and she was really empathetic and curious
and wanted to hear more. And it just felt like I could tell my
story in a different context. It sounded like you guys developed intimacy from the
very first date. Yeah, that's fair to say. So you're still together.
We are. We are. We're in almost three and a half years
and we lived together. So do you want to give a shout out to
the special woman? Like? Can we tell the world who she is?
I think we can. It's doctor Wendy Walsh. This is my Julio.
Everybody, this is the man I love so much, and I'm so grateful
that you have decided to be brave and tell your story and you are worthy
of love. Well, it's easy, it's easy standing by you. I
have one question though, that, Julio, will you marry me? Yes?
Oh my god, Oh my god, hard that laugh? Oh?
My god, oh my god, oh my god, my heart. I
love you, Julio, but that was a long pause, and that brings
a Dr Wendywall Show to a close. I'm shaking. We'll see you next
week. Thank you so much for listening to The Doctor Wendy Wall Show on
k f I A M six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app kf I
AM six forty on demand,