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You're listening to KFI AM six forty
on demand. Welcome back to the Doctor

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Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six
forty. Were live everywhere on the iHeartRadio

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app. I am loving this show
so far because it is filled with such

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inspirational people who have so many inspirational
stories to tell about how they are worthy

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of love and how they found love. And I have a very very special

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guest, and you're gonna have to
forgive me Skyler, because I am going

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to fan girl for a moment on
the air. Skyler Baylor is an internationally

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known inspirational speaker, author, an
advocate for trans inclusion, radical body acceptance,

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and mental health awareness. In fact, Skyler Baylor is the first transgender

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athlete to compete in any sport on
an NCAA Division One men's team. I'm

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gonna throw out the H word because
you're too shy, Scarler Skyler Harvard and

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uh. Basically, he has made
history and is now devoting his life to

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helping everybody else understand trans people.
His new book out now simply called He

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She They How We talk about gender
and Why it matters, is out right

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now and this year. Because I
follow you very closely on Instagram Skyler,

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he fell in love and married a
beautiful bride. Welcome to the show,

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Skyler Baylor. Thank you so much
for having me, Doctor Wendy. I'm

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excited to be here. So let
us start with a little bit about the

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struggles that trans people might have in
general about finding love. I've talked to

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a number of trans people and it's, you know, pretty clinically proven that

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when someone affirms their gender, their
sexual orientation doesn't necessarily change, and this

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can cause all kinds of confusion.
Do you want to expand on that for

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me? Yeah? Sure, I
mean I think that a lot of people

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assume that everybody beneath the LGBTQ plus
umbrella has the same identity, right,

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And the reality is that there's both
gender diversity and sexuality diversity, and just

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because somebody is trans doesn't also mean
that they are gay, and they can

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be There are trans people that come
in all different types of sexualities, right,

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So there are gay trans people,
but it doesn't mean that that,

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you know, one sexuality has to
be also queer if one is trans,

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and people often conflate those two things. So when I came out as trans,

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a lot of people would sort of
reduce my identity, either thinking oh,

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well, aren't you just a butch
lesbian, Skylar, or they would

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assume that I was somehow still queer, somehow still gay. Now I do

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identify as queer as well, but
that's not necessarily because of my transness.

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So I don't know if they answered
your question hopefully did Yeah? I mean,

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I think the great example that people
might be able to identify with is

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Kitlyn Jenner. Caitlyn Jenner, you
know, affirmed her identity and dates women

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as she did when she was Bruce
Jenner for the first part of her life,

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right, so her sexual orientation didn't
necessarily change. So the other I

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would say, challenge and please correct
me, Skyler, because it's your job

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to educate all of us if I
use the wrong language anywhere, because we're

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all getting up to speed together as
a culture. Sure, but one of

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the other challenges is basic anatomy,
and I teach my students that it is

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nobody's business what the anatomy is unless
they's somebody's lover and it's time to talk

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about it. Right, But do
trans people in your experience have nervousness challenges,

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worried, shame, about having that
conversation with a potential date. Well,

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you know, I think we should
back up a little bit and actually

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speak about the stereotype, stigma,
belief systems, assumptions that people have about

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not only just trans people, but
relationships in general. I think people have

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this expectation that, you know,
a they should know what's you know,

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under somebody's pants if they're trans,
and they should be able to have access

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to that conversation as early as they
want to have that conversation, when in

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reality, you know, I think
we all have to discover what another person's

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body is like if we choose to
date them, and we should all have

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an open mind while doing so,
and we should always have conversations about what

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physical intimacy looks like no matter who
we are or what our body makeup is.

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People forget that there is also biological
diversity within biological sex for people who

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are not trans. Right, you
don't know what you're working with until you're

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working with it, And I think
we have to really take a step back

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to remember that. You know,
first of all, trans people are not

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this category of complete otherness that has
to be dissected like some sort of science

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experiment, and really the most important
conversation is about consent, about open about

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curiosity, and about humanity. So
well said, I want to remind you

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and tell the general public that biological
diversity, it's estimated, is what intersects

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people are about one percent or one
in one hundred who actually have anatomical features,

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either internal structures or external structures that
may have pieces of a number of

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genders. So you're right, and
as we know, even what we call

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typical genital anatomy, when you meet
it under the covers for the first time,

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there's still a diversity and a range
that people meet. And so you're

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right. Yeah, and that two
percent, it's actually more close to two

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percent, at least in the research
that I've read. And I think people

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need to understand how significant two percent
of population is because a lot of people

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think, okay, two percent,
that's like nobody, that's only you know,

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two out of one hundred or one
out of one hundred, like the

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number you cited. But the reality
is that that's the same frequency of green

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eyed people, the same frequency of
red haired people, the same amount of

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people in the world that are Russian. And so these are actually massive amounts

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of the population and again, like
you noted, it's not just within this

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category that would be referred to as
intersects, as people who don't have you

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know, genetics or anatomy or biological
characteristics that meet these little neat boxes of

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male and female. But there's diversity
within people who are within these supposed categories,

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right. Not everybody looks exactly the
same. Not everybody's body parts are

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exactly the same, even if they
are, you know, within these neat

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little categories supposedly right of male and
female. I do want to add also

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indirect answer to your question about trans
people and our nervousness, I had said,

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let's back up and look at sort
of the environment that we're living in.

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I think that environment does have an
impact on trans people, and a

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lot of trans people are not only
you know, believing that they might not

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be worthy of love, but also
told And it's a devastating amount of trans

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people that have talked to me and
said, hey, you know, the

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first thing my mom or my dad
or somebody said to me when I came

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out was that, you know,
I'm I. You know, how am

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I going to find love? How
am I ever going to get married?

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How is anybody ever going to love
you, And it's a it's a horrible

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statement that people tell trans people these
things, that we're not worthy of love,

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or that you know, or even
that the focus of our lives should

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be about finding love, because maybe
that's also not the sole focus of somebody's

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life. But in any case,
my point is that I think this amount

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of systemic transphobia, or a system
right called cis sexism but against systemic transphobia

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that works reinforces this idea not only
within non trans people, but also for

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trans people that there's something about our
transness that makes us less lovable, that

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makes us not good enough. And
I think that's a deeply disturbing, deeply

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unkind belief that we have to learn
to unpack and and and actually doesn't isn't

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rooted in trans people, but rather
those who perpetuate transphobia so largely non trans

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people, and heartbreaking when I hear
it, Scottli, We're going to go

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to break and when we come back, I want to talk about your love

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story because it was beautiful to us
to bloom online and I want to hear

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it through your voice. You're listening
to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show. This

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is my special called Worthy of Love. My guest, Skyler Baylor, is

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an internationally known speaker, author,
and advocate for trans inclusion. You're listening

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to KFI AM six forty on demand. Welcome back to this very special episode

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of the Doctor Wendy Wall Show Worthy
of Love. My guest, Skyler Baylor

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is the author of the new book
He She They How we talk about gender

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and why it matters? Okay,
Skyler, As I said, I followed

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you on social media and I do
encourage everybody who wants to know more about

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this subject to follow Skyler Baylor.
I think your instagram is called Pink Mantray.

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Yes, that's correct, because you're
on the swim team. I get

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it, Pink Mantray. So Skyler, tell me about your you know,

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your dating odyssey, if it will. What was it like and how did

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you find love? How how did
it all happen? Yeah, you know,

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I've dated throughout my transition. I
dated before my transition, and I

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don't know how to wrap it up
in a couple of sentences, but I

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think I was always trying to be
as true to myself and find somebody who

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was aligned with with my with me
and my life and my identities, and

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I stumbled, I think a lot
through college, trying to balance a lot

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of different responsibilities and a lot of
different learnings that I was undergoing, especially

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in therapy and kind of learning about
I don't know what the best way to

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put it is, but I suppose
my own history like unpacking my own trauma

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and packing my own parts, trying
to figure out how to best fit that

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not only with myself, but in
the presence of others, and whether that

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be my close friends or romantic partners. I think it was all a journey

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and it still is. And I
think you know in your question the odyssey

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to find love, that that always
to me sounds like there's an end point.

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Don't think that there is. So, yes, I'm married and I

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have a lovely wife, and I
think a really important relationship with my wife,

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and we're never done, you know. I think we're always and this

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is one of my favorite parts about
our relationship. We're always iterating and figuring

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out how we can be more of
ourselves and then better for each other.

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And so I don't feel like,
you know, our love story is this

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is this sort of like, Okay, I looked for love, I found

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love and here I am. I've
got it. It's more of a I'm

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always in pursuit of alignment and that
continues in my relationship with my wife.

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You know, I always say most
Hollywood romantic comedies and the movie at the

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beginning of the story, right like, they find each other and they finally

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get together, and now the actual
work of love and the real story happens.

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So I'm glad you understand that that
we are two people in when they're

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in partnership, are constantly evolving and
constantly challenging each other, growing together sometimes,

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growing apart sometimes and finding ways to
continue to be in relationship to be

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with each other. May I ask
you about what it was like at the

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beginning. You mentioned that you dated
before your transition and during your transition.

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What was the internal work for you
and was it really about educating potential mates.

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Did you find that most people were
very open minded because of the environment

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you were in. What was that
like for you? You know, I

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think it depended on the person and
dependent on the moment. I think the

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primary difference perhaps between me and some
of my teammates, for example, who

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were none of which were trans as
well, was like you know, party

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culture, hookup culture something that I
really didn't participate in, whereas many of

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my teammates did participate in that.
And you know, it's hard to say

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how much of that is solely my
trans identity and how much of that just

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didn't align with me. Most of
my friends would call me a serial monogamist,

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and I've always always in a not
always, but whenever I was in

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any kind of relationship, it was
usually a committed relationship for you know,

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a longer period of time relative to
my peers, and so I think,

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you know, I didn't tend towards
hookup culture, and part of that was

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my trans identity. I was nervous
about having a conversation about my body and

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about my anatomy, and didn't know
how or when to have that conversation at

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a party or or you know,
in places that would lend itself to a

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to a hookup of kinds. And
I think I just didn't feel aligned with

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with that type of interaction. I'm
a very relational person, and I'm a

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very serious person in many ways.
In fact, I've been accused for most

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of my life of being quote too
serious, and I used to take that

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as an insult. And I no
longer do, because I this is just

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how I am, And if I
don't joke enough for you, then that's

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okay. We're just not in alignment. So I think, you know,

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I learned a lot about the kinds
of people I wanted to be around.

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I learned a lot about myself through
some of these stumbling relationships. I learned

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a lot about self worth as well. I think, you know, it

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was easy for me, especially early
in my transition, to accept relationships,

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be it romantic or platonic, relationships
that were not sufficient, that did not

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meet enough alignment criteria, if you
will, but that I was grateful enough

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to just have at all, because
I felt so unlovable in many ways,

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and I was fearful that if I
didn't accept the sort of bare minimum or

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even below honestly from my peers or
from certain romantic partners, that I would

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never you know, find better.
And so often I think I accepted subpar

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interactions from folks. And I don't
really blame others, and I don't really

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blame myself either. I think it
was a process for me to go through.

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I think it was very painful.
There were certain relationships I wish I

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had left sooner, and at the
same time, I learned so much about

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how to care for myself. I
think throughout those those interactions and I'm grateful

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for where I am today and that's
a product of where I was then.

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Well, Skyler, I will tell
you that your story sounds typical for all

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humans that as we grow up,
we learn what works for us and what

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doesn't, and we all look back
and say, why did I date that

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person right as we were learning as
we were growing up. I am so

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happy for you. I am so
proud of you that you have this book

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out. I hope it is a
number one bestseller everywhere. A reminder the

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book is called He She They how
we talk about gender and why it matters.

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If you're looking for it, just
follow Skyler on all his social media.

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It is pink Manta Ray because he
is an amazing swimmer from the Harvard

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swim team. And now, are
you full time working in this area to

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just continue to educate people? Yeah, I'm a full time advocate, educator,

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and author. This is my work
all day, every day. I

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would say that my work has exp
and in its intersectionality and it's and and

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sort of my striving for intersectional liberation, which really means collective liberation. I

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think oftentimes when we talk about trans
people, or people of color, or

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or you know, any marginalized group, we often think of that group in

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a silo alone. But the reality
is, for example, with trans related

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conversations, everybody has a gender,
and therefore everybody has been limited by gender,

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not just trans people. And I
think we can all understand that when

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we liberate even any marginalized group we
don't share an identity with, we can

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liberate everybody. So I'm much more
in a fight for collective liberation these days.

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Of course, trans identity is a
centerpiece for me, but but I

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think we have to always remember and
this is something I want listeners to also

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think about. Oftentimes, when I
talk to people from marginalized backgrounds, they'll

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put the onus or the pain or
the stigma on their identity. And people

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will say, well, it's because
i'm trans that people don't love me,

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or it's because i'm trans that I
have to navigate the situation differently. It's

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because I'm trans that dating is hard, And I always like to remind people

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that language we use is really important. It's not because I'm trans that things

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are hard. It's because of transphobia
that things are hard. Right. The

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systems of oppression are the reasons that
we struggle and the reasons that we hurt.

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It's not because of our beautiful,
magnificent identities that the world wants to

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marginalize. So well said, Thank
you so much, such a pleasure to

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meet you, Skyler Baylor. Thanks
for being here, Thank you for having

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me. When we come back,
another group that has sometimes challenges in the

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dating world are those who are not
neurotypical, those that naturally miss some social

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cues. When we come back,
we're going to meet a dating coach who

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used to be a special ed teacher
in high school, and then she learned

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that mostly her students wanted to know
how to date, so she became a

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wingwoman, if you will, for
young people dating with autism. You're listening

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to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on
KFI AM six forty. Were live everywhere

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the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to
KFI AM six forty on demand. Welcome

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back to the Doctor Wendywall Show KFI
AM six forty. We're live everywhere on

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00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:15.519
the iHeartRadio app. I am thrilled
to introduce my next guest on are Worthy

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of Love Special Mandy Staylor is a
special education teacher. I've known many special

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education teachers in my life because I
have a daughter who's not neurotypical. But

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she saw a need after seeing so
many I'm sure teenage boys and girls ask

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questions about dating, she saw a
need for a dating coach for people who

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are neurodiverse. So, armed with
an MBA, a teaching degree, and

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experience as a companion for a people
who are neurodiverse, and the fact that

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she'd spent a lot of her adult
life in the dating arena. Although she

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did finally meet her husband on Match
dot Com, she knows that courtship isn't

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easy. I would like to welcome
Mandy Staler. Welcome Mandy. Thank you,

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Wendy. So tell me about how
you got into coaching, specifically people

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who are a neurodivergent. Well,
as you mentioned, I started off,

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you know, in high school and
teaching students through twenty one and then I

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feel like we sent move into the
world right And there's so many things that

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I think people need more support in
that transition, and dating is one of

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them. I know that I spent
ten years of dating online between a few

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questionably stable relationships, and it's so
hard. And I think I'm socially capable,

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right, and so I think I
had some tools. I kind of

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knew some of those rules that are
always kind of unclear, and I just

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think if I had a really hard
time, lots of other people, you

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know, could be having that hard
time. I was fortunate to have some

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of my friends kind of my online
accountability buddies, and so it really just

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kind of came together. Also,
I've heard a lot of clients say that

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they were actually turned away for disclosing
their neurodiversions. And I think that it's

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just sometimes other coaches or a number
of people who provide, you know,

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one on one support, they just
feel they're unequipped. I don't think they're

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unequipped. I just think they haven't
learned that yet. Yes, exactly,

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And so I don't know. It
was just kind of something I started.

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So your company is called Dating with
Autism. How do you work with clients?

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Well, Uh, it's certainly changes
person to person, because honestly,

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some people just want me to go
along with them and they're online dating.

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They want me to look at their
profile, the messages they're sending, things

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like that somebody wants uh, sometimes
people want to date somebody really specific.

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I will say one person actually just
wanted to find a roommate and they just

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couldn't find anybody else to hang out
with them. I think relationships are you

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know, the basis of relationships are
pretty similar. Yeah, and so perspective

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ticket really is individualized. I'll say
them right now, as they've been a

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dating coach for quite some time,
it's actually harder and harder for me to

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find enough time for all of these
one on one clients. So I do

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really focus on kind of my small
group relationships classes. I use a curriculum

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out of UCLA actually coach you called
peers, and that's been helpful. But

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overall, it's just really important to
everybody as themselves. And because I don't

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want to change anyone, masking is
a pretty important topic. People sometimes feel

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that need to change themselves in order
to fit into our neurotypical world. And

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I don't want anybody to change who
they are, so really just making sure

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that it's their goals for whatever they
want to do, as long as they

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remain authentic to themselves. That's what's
important to me. Tell me about your

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greatest success story. Has anyone found
love? Actually, yeah, so I've

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got a few people who have found
love, But I do want to say

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that as excited as I am when
people have love success, I'm really stoked

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when people find success for themselves.
I know a man in South Carolina and

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he just loved He just loved himself
after everything. And I think what we

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really had worked on is unlocking his
confidence and that you know, he's it's

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okay that he's different. I didn't
want to change him, and I don't.

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He didn't change himself. He just
kind of felt a way to be

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himself and he's really happy. And
he's had a few first dates and none

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of them have actually panned out.
They will because he's fantastic. Mandy.

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What advice do you give to parents
of teenagers who might be neurodivergent? Great

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question. So I think first and
foremost that the neurodiverse community is more than

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twice as likely to be a member
of the lg BTQ plus community. And

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I think that that's really important because
parents sometimes can inadvertently make suggestions to find

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a girlfriend or a boyfriend, and
they don't necessarily know how much more likely

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this is. And I also just
think that it is important because sometimes members

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of the neurodiverse community don't see as
much of that representation in our everyday life

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as they should, and it can
make people a lot more confused when there's

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already enough confusing things about the dating
world as it is. And before we

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go, what is the number one
dating tip that you have for all of

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us, including people who are neurodivergent? Great question. Be yourself and know

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that whoever you have made your choice
of a person to be with dating is

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a choice for them too. If
it's not the right person for you,

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just move on. There are so
many people out there and somebody is not

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giving you what you need back,
go and find somebody who will. Everybody

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is worthy and deserving them love.
Mandy Staylor. What's your website for people

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to go and find out more about
you? And with Autism dot com?

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Dating with Autism dot Com. Mandy
Staylor, thank you so much for joining

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us. You're listening to the Doctor
Wendywallh Show on KFI AM six forty.

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We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to KFI AM six forty

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00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:21.759
on demand AFI AM six forty.
You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you.

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This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. We are in the home stretch of

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my special called Worthy of Love.
Before I introduce my next guest, who

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prefers to remain anonymous, I want
to tell you some sobering statistics about America.

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Here in this country, we incarcerate
more people than anywhere else in the

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world. According to the Department of
Justice, one in twenty Americans will experience

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incarceration at some point in their lifetime. An overwhelming amount of men versus women

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experience incarceration therefore, one or about
nine percent, according to the Department of

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Justice. So ladies, think of
it that way. Almost one in ten

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men that you meet on a dating
app or in the real world have experienced

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prison life, and these men are
highly stigmatized. Now I should also say

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the overwhelming amount of convictions are non
violent therefore, financial crimes, drugs,

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weed. I mean, I think
about the people who serve time for marijuana,

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and now it's legal mostly everywhere,
and yet they're out there in the

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mating marketplace, and women need to
give them a chance. And so I

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have a very brave guest who has
joined me today. Thank you for being

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here. You're welcome. So I
got to get this off the tub,

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like are you a hatchet murder or
something like? Did you anything really bad?

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No? No, no. It
was a financial crime driven by entitlement

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and arrogance and it poor judgment,
poor judgment on judgment. Did you know

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you were breaking the law? I
didn't, but let's just say that the

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00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:14.480
entitlement went too far. I had
a business partner that was high profile and

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00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:18.240
it just became quite a mess.
So how much prison time did you serve?

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I did one calendar year in prison. How old were you? I

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00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:26.400
was fifty seven? Wow. Wow, and you were a divorced man at

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00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:33.359
that time. Yes. Tell me
about the hardest part of experiencing incarceration.

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The hardest part has to be the
shame, you know, the shame that

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one feels, especially when it's public
and in the press and your family feels

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00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:45.119
it. And I had two young, you know, young adult children who

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had to go on the ride with
me, as it were, and by

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far the hardest thing was shame.
And I'm sure that's a walk that you

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00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:57.920
experience every day. Yeah, it's
you know, it comes up and occasionally

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I'm out there and you know,
meetings and in my life it comes up.

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So how was your dating life?
Did you date like as soon as

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00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:08.440
you got out of prison? No, no, no. I I had

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taken advantage in prison of therapy and
sort of spent a lot of time sort

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of sort of just dealing with the
shame and getting in touch with who I

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was and thinking about authenticity. And
when I get out of prison, I

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took time to you know, reintegrate
and get a job and you know,

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get all that sort of an order, deal with my children. And then

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I jumped on a dating app.
And what was it like? Originally?

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00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:34.960
Initially like do you tell people like
on the first text, the first phone

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call? Like, what's the rule
there? No, well, my therapist

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has said that I needed to tell
them on the first date. I did

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tell them on some phone calls,
and of course that didn't go very far.

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They didn't show up the date.
No, of course, not women,

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00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:52.000
you're so pecky. But then at
the end of a date I would

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00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:55.640
tell them my circumstance and in most
cases it ended you know, quite a

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little rough, maybe badly. They
would basically say what you know, it

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00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:03.559
was it ran the gamut. Sometimes
they would say, you know, how

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00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:07.119
dare you? And you know it's
like sometimes violating some kind of code,

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00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:10.119
and other cases they would just say, I can't handle it, and you

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00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:12.839
know this is not appropriate. And
it was generally, you know, an

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00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:17.559
exit that I would try to do
graciously, and I understood because you know,

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even myself, when I thought of
felons, I would have judgments.

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So what advice would you give to
people who've experienced incarceration? You know,

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own up to who you are and
what you did, if you know,

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00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:33.599
in prison, I met so many
people who were in denial and making excuses,

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00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.559
and I think that that just that's
not constructive to you know, becoming

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a better person. And I really
worked hard to you know, deal with

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the shame and deal with my situation. And I really advise people to get

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00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:48.400
therapy and you know, really work
hard to you know, grasp and accept

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who you were. Now. The
good news here this show is called Worthy

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00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:55.559
of Love for a reason. You
found love. Tell me about the woman

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00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:57.640
you met. So I matched with
a girl on bumble, a woman on

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00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:02.279
Bumble, and I was really excited
and I got on the phone with her.

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00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:04.720
Your voice was really warm, and
I could tell there was something special

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00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:10.079
there and it was COVID. So
we ended up meeting outside for coffee,

379
00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:14.359
and you know, usually in the
date I talked about my circumstances at the

380
00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:17.799
end of the day, and this
one, the conversation ended up coming about

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00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:22.880
where we talked about at the beginning, and she was really empathetic and curious

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00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:25.759
and wanted to hear more. And
it just felt like I could tell my

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00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:30.079
story in a different context. It
sounded like you guys developed intimacy from the

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00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:36.160
very first date. Yeah, that's
fair to say. So you're still together.

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00:28:36.759 --> 00:28:38.039
We are. We are. We're
in almost three and a half years

386
00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:41.799
and we lived together. So do
you want to give a shout out to

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00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:44.960
the special woman? Like? Can
we tell the world who she is?

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00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:51.359
I think we can. It's doctor
Wendy Walsh. This is my Julio.

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00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:55.480
Everybody, this is the man I
love so much, and I'm so grateful

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00:28:55.880 --> 00:29:00.839
that you have decided to be brave
and tell your story and you are worthy

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00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.440
of love. Well, it's easy, it's easy standing by you. I

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00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:11.960
have one question though, that,
Julio, will you marry me? Yes?

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00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:19.640
Oh my god, Oh my god, hard that laugh? Oh?

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00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:26.680
My god, oh my god,
oh my god, my heart. I

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00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:33.119
love you, Julio, but that
was a long pause, and that brings

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00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:38.759
a Dr Wendywall Show to a close. I'm shaking. We'll see you next

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00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:41.920
week. Thank you so much for
listening to The Doctor Wendy Wall Show on

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00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:48.440
k f I A M six forty
live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app kf I

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00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:49.480
AM six forty on demand,