It's the Lockdown Podcast Network, Your team every Day. Damian Parson here,
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just spent an entire episode with joegob Berry talking about a bunch of free agents
that maybe the Bengals should be looking to move on from or it could be
looking to move on from, and is that an opportunity to then change their
philosophy about their personnel packages. We'll get into that and more in today's episode.
You are Locked On Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast, part of
the Locked On podcast network, Your team every Day. Well not Bengals fans,
and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals Podcast. I'm your host,
Jake, Let's go. He's your host, James Rapine. Today,
be are once again joined by Djogobarri as we continue our early off season topic
series. Today talking about an opportunity perhaps to change the way the Bengals run
things, especially on the offensive side of the ball, but there are opportunities
on defense as well. We'll also look at positional spending and the outlook there
what clues that gives us about the Bengals upcoming off season. Today's episode sponsored
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Again, that's j asee Com and Joe for the second time this week.
I'm gonna refer to a tweet that I made during the wild Card Games,
coach tweeting Max Descano. Max said, referring to the Browns Texans game at
the time, both teams are getting into a ton of thirteen personnel for the
purposes not running the ball, but throwing the ball, specifically two tight ends
like Brevin Jordan for example, and I said tired best wide receiver trio in
the league at the time, referring to the Cincinnati Bengals inspired best a tight
end trio in the league. A potential opportunity this season. With t Higgins
and Tyler Boyce free agency, there for a significant personnel shift on offense.
What are your high level thoughts hearing this for the first time. I think
it's correct. Number one. I think that it's part of the ebbs and
flows of offense versus defense in the NFL when we three wide receivers became a
thing and very popularized, he struggled to get enough corners to get out there
and cover them. And then now everyone seems a heavy good nickel or slot
corner or the good teams do at least, and taking him off the field
is key. So you go with heavier tight ends or heavier offensive packages to
get Mike Hilton off the field. I go directly Texans versus Browns. The
Browns have three very good corners that they want to play man coverage with,
and with a single high safety, get one of those corners off the field.
How put out, their extra tight ends go heavy, right, So
if they want that corner to still stay on the field and play the run,
he better be Mike Hilton playing the run. And even Mike Hilton's five
to eight point eight on his best days, like it's still an issue.
Even if he's a good run defender, So it's the ebbs and flows.
Now you're going to see teams going heavy, and I think we saw it
all year. We talked about this all season with teams that ran the ball,
reuse play action, use their tight ends, more condensed formations. They
found ways to create explosive plays at a higher rate. And we're looking at
the Bengals, Well, you have the three best receivers in the league.
You should be able to do this at the same level that these other teams
do. When you're more stagnant, when you're the same personnel grouping previous years
ninety percent of the time this year, I think it was seventy eight percent.
They were eleven personnel but was injured. So when you are stagnant,
though, it's easier to defend and it's easier to be more predictable. And
I think that has plagued the Bengals a little bit. So yeah, I
think we're leading into that they have an opportunity and to be different. Is
that path tight end only? Do you see other ways to do that?
We talked about running back on yesterday's episode, about having three different guys that
can do a little bit of everything versus mixing. Is this type of back
and he's going to be on the field for these plays. Travion Williams is
a pass block or Chase Brown is kind of our explosive guy that we throw
screens to. Is it just tight end and if so, what should fans
be looking for at tight end or what could the Bengals be looking for at
tight end this offseason? No, I do think it's all the positions,
even wide receiver, and we talked. We mentioned getting faster and having a
speed slot. I think having Charlie Jones run a four to three running clear
out routes is much better than Tyler Boyd running a four to six running clear
out routes. Right, you can do different things off of that, so
running back as well. The committee approach having guys that can do more so
you're not as predictable. Again, we want to limit how predictable you are
on offense. So if they get to the point where they have three different
guys that can do different things, that helps the offensive line as well.
Can you be a more physical run team up fright at the point of attack?
Can you also be more athletic and do more things and get out on
these screens, get out to the wide zone, I get to these reach
blocks that you need to hit to seal off the edge. So yeah,
it's all of these things that they've struggled with are areas where they have almost
neglected in the draft. You know, define the athletic offensive lineman, to
find the correct running back to pair with Joe Mixon, and maybe now supplant
Joe Mixon, to find a high level tight end talent tight end, and
to get more speed on offense. All of these things are still needs,
but now more of a need maybe in a sense city there's an opportunity as
well with the changes that are inevitable. You have starting positions up on offense,
and we're going to talk about defense too. I don't think this is
strictly on the offensive side of the ball, but I wonder how much of
that personnel approach is a product of the guys that the Bengals prioritized drafting.
Zach Taylor inherited a team with Tyler Boyd and nothing a wide receiver. They
draft Joe Burrow and T Higgins that could be the core. But then Joe
Burrow gets hurt and you're picking at the top of the draft. Again,
you have the opportunity to get a very special talent in Jamar Chase, and
so you're like, Okay, Jamar Chase connection with Joe Burrow, really high
level player. Well, I guess we're going to do that too. And
now you've got three wide receivers and then you build your team around that while
you have those guys. But I wonder how much of it is we have
those guys, so that's how we're going to go, versus that's what they
want to do, really do, because we know, I think the last
couple of years they wanted a tight end in the draft. They didn't want
to tight end in the draft enough to spend an extra asset to move up
and get one or to reach according to what they felt their draft board was
on a tight end. They didn't force it. But I wonder how much
of it is a product of the kind of natural way the team came together
versus a preference from this coaching stuff. Yeah, because you have to do
both, right. If you if you somehow found a fourth receiver that you
drafted in the sixth round, let's say let's say Yoshi was Puka Nakua as
a rookie right, well, and now I've got to try and have more
four ride receiver sets because he's that good that I let's get this guy in
the field. So that is coaching. You use your best players to their
strengths and make your team as good as possible. They've done that. They've
done exactly that on offense given what they've had, given the dearth of tailent.
I mean, they made Cijozama into a highly paid tight end. Hayden
Nurse got the same thing a year later. They have found a way to
say, hey, this is our personnel grouping, this is how will be
best suited on offense. Let's do it. Let's play to that strength.
I and this goes to the conversation of tight end because I think people say,
well, they won't use the tight end, or they don't use the
tight end. They threw one hundred and fifteen balls to the worst tight end
group in the league heading into last year, and they may still be.
I mean, there's no one on the roster right now, so technically they
are the worst tight end group in league. But if that was a Sam
Laporter or whoever, if they would have drafted, if it is Brock Bauers
at eighteen. You don't think they'll use him. You don't think quickly he
would be the number three option. You don't think in a year when they
lose Tea he would be the number two option and the whole offense will look
completely different and it'd be combo routes between Brock Bauers and Jamar Chase. It
would or else you're an inept coaching staff, and I don't think they are.
I think they use their players to the correct way they should be used.
Let's discuss that more on the coaches' potential changes, what could happen,
how willing they are to change as we roll on. Coming up next,
the next segment of Lockdown Bengals is brought to you by our sponsor Better Help.
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All right, Joe, let's stick with the coaching element here because I
think it's a big one, and I think that there are people that just
assume that this is how it's going to be, and Joe Burrow is going
to run empty and Zach Taylor is going to want three receivers on the field
all the time and not value tight end because they haven't drafted one since Drew
Sample. And that's it. It doesn't feel like you feel that way.
Why well, number one, they did draft Drew Sample in round two,
right, nobody told them to do that. They did that had their own
That was their own valuation of why they've never drafted a tight end early.
See right, that's probably what it is. And then by the way,
Drew Sample is a good player, just throwing that out there. Not a
second round player, but he ends he's a good player. He's fun.
That's part of a larger and different discussion of once you get past that second
round pick, that first four year contract, All right, what is he
and what does he do? Well, let's stop trying to make him do
other things and let him be who Drew sanm Piloe's was and he was this
year and it was his best year. So again that's the team using players
to their strengths. Right, talk about Tanner Hudson. Hudson only lined up
in line twenty six percent of the time. Last year he was in the
slot, he was out wide. They used him like a big slot receiver,
again to his strengths. So I do believe if the right players are
in there, they would adjust, adjust a little bit. I do think
this really caught flame, though, this whole idea when Browning got in inserted
right, and that first week it was here is Browning into the Joe Burrow
offense, and then for the next month it was, oh, this is
different, Oh here's some screens finally, Like I've clearly called them plenty of
times the worst screen team in the league for the last three years, and
all of a sudden, they're getting explosives at a crazy rate, and they're
throwing screens at a high rate, and then they're a lot more play action
under center, all of these things that people clamored for the whole time with
Joe Burrow, because I mean, that's how they've had a highly successful offense
with Joe Burrow, running from empty and doing what they do with Burrow with
three wide receiver sets. But then when it doesn't work for a couple of
weeks, we demand change. But there is some middle ground there they do
need to merge both of these. Get Burrow a little more easier throws and
targets and explosive plays where he doesn't have to carry the team and you can
just dump it off the chase Brown and he rips it for fifty yards.
That would be great and benefit everyone, And I think they did see a
little bit of light at the end of the tunnel. I think Joe Burrow
even said it and his postseason press conference saying like we did find a way
to get some explosives, and he mentioned that and how how beneficial it was
his offense. I think he sees it as well. You mentioned early in
the season you were on the more critical side of the Bengals coaching staff for
not being more prepared for the limited Joe Burrow. That being said, I
personally fully believe that the offense we saw with Jake Browning would have been very
similar, with the key difference being less empty, because brown and clearly not
comfortable and empty the way Joe Burrows comfortable and empty. Would have been the
offense they would have run with Joe Burrow if not for that injury this year,
they only got a few healthy games with him. You go back and
look at those healthy games, it's kind of hard to tell what it would
have been for the remainder of the season because they are such a week to
week offense. I mean, you even saw that with Browning. You saw
them make changes in the kinds of running plays they called, the kinds of
screens they called, the kind of passing concepts they called. They tried to
take advantage of weaknesses that they think will work. That's why some weeks they've
run a lot of early toss plays and they don't work. So do you
think that? Do you buy? I guess when Zach Taylor says how the
offense we ran with Jake wasn't two different so different than the offense we ran
with Joe, that's been overstated. Do you believe it? I actually went
back and looked at some of my episodes and tweets from August down to camp,
and that's what our expectations were, right, and that you're not wrong.
And I was like, yeah, look at all the play action they're
doing with Burrow. Now, Burrow was hurt then, but I went and
looked at even before he was hurt, you know, and then mini camps
and stuff, and like every clip we got was play action or some type
of RPO him under center much more, and it was like, yeah,
I do think this was it. And clearly, when he had the calf
issue, they could not have him drop back from under center. It just
was not an option. They went ninety nine point nine percent of their snaps
from shotgun for that very reason, which means your playbook is now cut in
half or you're trying to piece parts of it together to get it to work,
you know, try and get the same concept we would have run from
under center play action, but now we're going to do it from shotgun and
see if it works. And you know, they had mixed results overall,
so I do believe they were on the right track this. This has never
been a team. I get some of these comments on Twitter a lot,
and you guys probably do as well, from fans that say, well,
Zach stubborn and he won't do this and he won't change this, and it
seems the exact opposite from my vantage point. I think they do whatever works,
and they don't care where they get the idea from. They don't care
where they get the concept from. They steal stuff from around the league all
the time. And they try and implement it as best as they possibly can.
I don't know. I feel like with a healthy Burrow, the conversation
for the offense is completely different from a coaching standpoint. But on the other
hand, Brian Kalen's getting all these interviews again this year, and it's probably
because what they did with Jake Browning. Yeah, I think that's part of
it for sure. You go four and three down the stretch, you go
to Jacksonville, and you win, and you stay in the hunt. You
stay in the playoff race through week seventeen. Let's discuss the defense a little
bit though, because Leuen or Rumo, I think a lot of people thought
he would coming into the year this would be his last year and he would
get a head coaching job. As of the time we record this, it
doesn't sound like any teams are interested in interviewing him. Obviously, the defense
took a step back from a change standpoint. What changes could we see or
potentially see as far as philosophy go for this team, because obviously they're young
in the secondary and everybody's been focused on that element of things. Let's dive
into that topic coming up next this episode of Lockdown Bengals is sponsored by Jase
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there and you just hit a grand slam. So same question, Joe,
what changes could we see on defense? Well, I think we saw changes
this year that they didn't want to have. They they didn't expect and it's
because and we undersold probably the loss of the two veterans that safe probably well
right, well, because I was last episode in this episode just now,
I'm talking about the opportunity to get better, the opportunity to be different,
and the optunity to be more versatile. They had all of that with the
new safeties, didn't mean they were better, and in fact, they probably
limited them a little bit more than they would like to be. You remember
the good Anta Remo defenses in the playoff run defenses were extremely multiple and variable,
and they would show one thing pre snap and they you watch it on
tape, it'd be beautiful the way they'd rotate into another coverage and it just
Mahomes would just crap his pants looking at it like, oh no, and
now I've got to hold the ball and run around, and they couldn't do
that. They're very the data that I look at that shows how often they
change coveragees pre snap posting that this year dropped completely tanked, and it's because
I think of the safeties that typically is a complete reflection of how well the
safeties can pull that off, hold their water a little bit longer and not
show it pre snap, and then rotate rate at the right timing, communicate
it all between everyone. And instead what we saw was a vanilla defense that
had two blitz because they weren't confident in getting pressure with just one guy and
Trey Hendrickson, and then a lot of explosive plays on the back half,
largely from the safeties, but I do think the corners had their hand involved
in that too. We had some up and down play from chadov Luzia and
then DJ Turner down the stretch, but largely I think the biggest change will
be getting back to what they did do when these guys become a little bit
more seasons on the seasons on the back half, and then adding talent to
the defensive tackle room I think is desperately needed. I think it aired out
the linebackers in a lot of ways. I think it made them force them
to bring a safety into the box a little bit more because they were so
weak against the run, and that happens as it starts with your nose tackle
and defensive tackle rooms. And because it was such an issue. I mean,
every time there was a big run, you could almost like look and
squint your screen and be like, yeah, that's sixty eight and that's two
poems, Zach Carter. They're out there again, like how does this happen?
And then you know until you get the starters back out there, b
J Hill and DJ Reader and doing their thing. But yeah, I think
it's personnel first, and it's experienced second. From a personnel change perspective or
personal philosophy shifts, I don't I agree with you that. I don't think
the back half of the defense is what I'm thinking about there. And I
agree that they want to get back to what they're doing. And you would
hope that seasoning experience seeing things from the NFL speed, the NFL level for
Dax Hill and for Jordan Battle leads to goods center justic communication going forward.
But DJ Reader, Josh Tupo, free agency, the need to rebuild that
defensive tackle room. I wonder if they and I don't expect changes here,
but there is with that big shift with DJ Reader, an opportunity to look
at what they've got with some youth besides Trey Hendrickson. With the changes,
we're expecting a defensive tackle to kind of shift their approach to trench play.
Not necessarily something I anticipate, but do you think that there's something they would
be interested in there? I think there there's both sides, So I think
they would love to get another big nose tackle that can hold his own in
two gap and maybe take on two blockers and keep these linebackers free, because
I like Jermaine Pratt looks so much better when he's not touched by a center
or guard climbing up to the second level like it's night and day. They
want to look at previous years when he graded poorly on PFF, and I
look at the defensive tackles how they graded those years, and I'm like,
yeah, well that kind of coincides with each other, and I think it
could happen again. So I think they would like a big nose tackle,
But the big change would be getting back to an Ogunjobe penetrating style defensive tackle
that they can mix in there, and I think that's a huge thing.
Number one in terms of personnel and type of players they draft is big there
because they really haven't drafted that guy in so long. I mean, the
Marcus Hardison and the Zach Carter defensive ends in college that you're going to kick
inside and add fifteen pounds to just has not worked. So I think they
need to spread different waters there and swim in different waters and figure out if
that's the key to their issues. Yeah, I think defensive tackle is going.
It almost has to be a mix of veteran free agents along with and
it could be multiple along with drafting, and you leave that eighteenth eighteenth pick
open to it. But at the same time, you might not be able
to get one in the first couple of rounds. We know how the draft
can go, and so you need to be able to add to it in
free agency. Do you want to dive into positional spending, Jake? That
was on the outlook, so up to you. What do you think,
Jake, Yeah, let's spend a couple of minutes there just to talk about
where that suggests the Bengals are going to spend money. The Bengals are the
only team in the NFL in twenty twenty four to have a position group that
there are zero dollars allocated to the only team in the NFL to have any
position group. And there's five position groups that over the cap, ten position
groups that over the cap. Does the Bengals have zero dollars allocated to tight
end? Obviously they're going to spend money there. But Joe, when you
look at the positional spending trends, which is something I know you like to
do, what Job said at you is an opportunity to either change the way
they're spending money to spend more money. Well, one of the big takeaways
from the early offseason view of positional spending. Yeah, and that's how we
got to the point last year where it was, hey, they'll probably draft
a defensive end highly because they have a lot of money tied up there.
But they need to get better. And when you have those two as a
combination, well, the only way to really get better and without adding a
lot of money there is to spend a draft pick. So if you look
at that this year and heading into twenty twenty four, so some of these
numbers will change. Their twenty sixth in total offensive spending for twenty twenty four,
there seventeenth in total defensive spending. Makes you feel like they could spend
on the offensive side a little bit. But the tight end room, like
you said, thirty second, they could spend a lot there and they probably
should and have to just to get it above water. But the wide receiver
position before tagging Tea is twenty fifth. If they tag them, it should
put them around eleventh. So they're still not crazy high in spending, and
this is before other teams starts spending there. They could probably get another veteran
at that spot, and maybe that's a we talked about this is who's the
fourth receiver? Is it Trenton Irwin? Is it Yoshi? Is it?
Who's it going to be? Next season? They could go get a Josh
Reynolds or something like that and dangle Tea out there and see what happens if
you can get a trade before the before free agency, because let's think about
it, if you or before the draft, if you go out and don't
spend on a wide receiver and then you find a trade partner for Tea,
well, now you're almost forced to have to spend a premium pickout receiver,
even though I would expect it. You wouldn't want to be forced to do
that. It's one of the things we try to avoid doing. But looking
at the defensive end room sixth highest paid defensive endroom going into twenty twenty four,
they just are banking on the development of Miles Murphy and maybe this year
we can get Joseph Osaie off the milk carton and he can help out and
do something that would be awesome. And critically it bounce back from Sam Hubbard
because he's a big chunk of that edge spending and he was dealing with injury
this year and that showed up a little bit. He's another example you use
where cash versus cap. The cap number is higher than the cash, So
for like the Bengals, I don't think they'll even consider cutting him. I
know some people have thought about it, but it's I've thought about it,
yeah, right, it's Cincinnati's owns Sam Hubbard, and they use them for
a lot of other promotional and fun things in the area. I just don't
I don't think they'd consider it when the cash they're paying is just eight and
some change rather than the ten and a half cap hits. But at corner
they're twenty first. At safety their twenty second. I think they could add
a veteran if we're talking a guy that's a Nick Scott type signing three to
five million dollars at each position. I could see that in a lot of
ways. They can't really spend picks there because they spent so many picks at
both positions. They could use a little bit more veteran talent and money at
those spots. Yeah, I think that's that's the dilemma of do you add
a safety or do you try to get another DT right or another put that
money towards because I'm all about I think about defensive tackle similar to tight end,
where it's like man, there's just there's nothing, and I know you
have at least BJ Hill, but you also play multiple all the time,
and so I think it's it's interesting, and they have a cap space and
they do have certainly the assets and resources to go after it. I think
this is going to be an eventful offseason. We can all agree there,
I think no doubt, And part of what we'll guide the off season conversation
is reevaluating self scouting, what the Bengals have, how these young guys played
are their cornerstones besides Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase on this roster for the next
five years. We'll get into those topics with Joe as we update our evaluations
and tomorrow's episode. Until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the
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Podcast Network. Your team every day. Playoffs talk about playoffs. That's right.
The Cincinnati Reds are talk about playoffs in twenty twenty four, but they've
got to do some things to make that a reality. What's up? This
is jeffcar from the Lockdown Reds podcast, and I would love for you to
join me and my co host, Steven Offenbaker every day this offseason as we
look at the Cincinnati Reds, what they are spending, what they are doing,
who they're training to make the team a playoff team in twenty twenty four.
We've been looking at this year as the year that the window opens and
the way that they played in twenty twenty three has led me to believe that
that is still the case. However, things need to be done. We're
going to cover that on a daily basis. All the rumors, all of
the rumblings, all the grumblings about what the Reds can do to be a
playoff team in twenty twenty four. That's the Lockdown Reds podcast. We are
wherever you get your podcasts. Come join us every day