WEBVTT

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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. Yeah, we're back.

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It's been a while. I'm your
host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am

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joined by Martin Totally cool dude,
Willis. Oh, I was ready to

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laugh at something corny, but that
was corny. Oh, it was totally

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cool dude. That's pretty corny.
Well, but you are so touched you

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overlooked the course. That's right.
Yeah, no, that's good. We

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remove the tear from my eye.
Yeah. So that Super Bowl is really

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awesome, hun, I actually watched
it online, did you. Yeah,

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I loved it because I'm a Broncos
fan. I'm from Denver. It would

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be Yeah, the first incarnation of
this show, which was UFO Think Tank

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was it was all started back in
Denver and that's where I got involved with

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Moufine and everything. So this show
is actually a Denver Bronco show by extension.

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So well, I lived out in
that area, you know, the

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Boulder Longmond area, and I know
how people are such dedicated fans. A

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good friend of mine out there had
an orange Ford pickup truck. He bought

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it purpose, had it ordered,
you know, purposely. You know,

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they are total Bronco fans out there. Yeah, but it's a fun time.

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I mean the John Elway era,
people were just crazy about Elway,

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always like a god in Denver.
And of course he's managing the team,

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which is so exciting. And now
and then with Manning. You know who

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doesn't love Manning and his storybook ending
to his career because he's most likely going

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to retire. He has to retire
now, yeah, right? Who would

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not want to retire after that?
Yeah? I mean it's his storybook ending.

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If he comes back, it's going
to be like that weird last chapter,

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you know, where he's going to
struggle. He's older. I mean,

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it would just be kind of strange. So he's got to kind of,

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I think, retire at this point, which is fine because that he

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goes off, you know, with
a bang and how awesome. Do you

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think anybody's like unplugged their iPod because
we're talking sports. I don't think so,

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because we're not going to be talking
sports long. We're done. People.

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If you're getting upset, I think
that they're nice enough to be like,

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well, you know, they're Denver
people. We can let them have

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their moment and hopefully they're answer for
a show. And this is going to

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be a great one, because I
haven't had one for a couple of weeks.

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We've been so busy with the UFO
Congress, and each week I've been

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trying to fit a show in and
thinking I can, and then it doesn't

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work out. But I got to
tell you, guys, we were so

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busy with the conference and you know, with the conference, and I think

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it shows we are just so hyper
sensitive about every little minute thing. We

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want everything to go flawless, not
just for the attendees, definitely for the

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attendees, but also for the speakers. And I think that's really important.

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I mean, I think some people
often at these conferences, they're just wanting

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it to happen. I mean,
they're just wanting it to and so and

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I can under understand that. So
people are really overwhelmed, and then it

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gets difficult for them to see it
from the perspective of the attendees or the

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speakers. But you know, luckily, since we've been doing it for so

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long, what we are very hyper
sensitive about is that the attendees have a

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seamless experience, and so do the
speakers. That is I think really important

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that the speakers because it can be
scary for a speaker. Many people don't

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know this where, especially like Stanton
or Travis Walton, who do a lot

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of conferences, both of whom are
going to have tables at the UFO Congress.

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You know, it's scary to go
to this place and you're not sure

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if they're going to come up with
the finances that they say they're going to

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come up with. And I've had
it happen to me. We've all had

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it happen to us where they don't
and you're left, you know, stuck

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with that, you know, a
bill or something like that. So yeah,

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Travis is told me about that happened
exactly, So it's happened. And

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some well known, you know,
people who have put on conferences in the

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past, people who you know are
well known at this point in the field,

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have done that, have stuck people
with, you know, having to

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pay their own way when they promised
them they would. So it can be

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really difficult. So I want I
always I know they're nervous if they haven't

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dealt with us before, or and
so, and some of these are professionals.

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We try to get professionals who haven't
dealt with this field before, so

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we want to We're really hyper sensitive
that everything goes off seamless, and so

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that's one of the things that just
keeps us so busy. We make sure

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we're contacting people and arranging things.
So yeah, but this year is going

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very well. Well. People don't
realize how many moving parts there are,

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just something like putting on any type
of conference and all they see is the

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finished product. But I know what
goes into these type of things because I've

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been involved with it, and takes
so much planning, even up to a

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year ahead, and and lots of
work on every single little tiny detail,

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and I overlook one detail and it's
the week the week linked right, and

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and then it can be devastating.
Although a lot of errors. When there

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is an error, it's usually devastating
for us. But luckily, you know,

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not many people even notice it happened, so this is always nice.

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But still, plus with the conference
being so long, it's so many speakers.

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So yeah, so that's that's kept
me busy. And this is really

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just a long apology for why I
haven't had a show in the last couple

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of weeks, because people are always
like, when are you gonna have a

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show, When are you gonna have
a show, So but I think they're

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used to this time of year,
us being on and off with our YouTube

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videos and with our radio podcasts.
Yeah. The only thing that could ever

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be the fly in the ointment that
I could see out there is if you

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had bad weather elsewhere in the country
and speakers couldn't get out there. That's

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the only thing I can imagine.
Can you know, from what I've witnessed

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as smooth as can be? Well, that happened every year, that happened.

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Actually, yeah, February is not
the best time of year. Actually,

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yeah, elsewhere in the country.
So like Tom Reid had to last

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year, he got snowed out and
h but almost every year someone has to

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come maybe on the next plane or
come in a little late because of weather.

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So yeah, so we'll see,
that'll probably happen, and usually we

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have to rearrange this schedule a little
bit. So it's very possible, if

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not probable, that'll happen. However, the weather here is remarkable, So

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all of a sudden, it was
really chilly a couple of weeks ago.

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However, we've got all week long
the highs like in the lower eighties.

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Yeah, I saw the weather report. I can't wait it was incredible.

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I got up this morning and went
to the car and it was like,

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you know, I had a jacket
on. I didn't need the jacket.

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There's this slow breeze that just feels
good, and it's just the weather's perfect

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right now. So I hope it's
supposed to stay this way. So it's

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gonna be wonderful. People will even
be able to get into the pool.

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Definitely the hot tub. Wow.
So yeah, So it's it's turning out.

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It's everything's looking pretty good so far, right, So I guess let

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me tell people why the Today's Show
is so cool too because of our guests.

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So this is a great guest and
I'm so happy we were able to

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hook this up. There are a
little bit of technical difficulties with the with

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the scent with U. He was
in another country. He's in Spain,

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and so the internet was kind of
sketchy in the interview, but really it

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sounds fine. I mean I was
able to hear him just fine. Uh.

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There's a couple of times where he
kind of just fades out and in

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real quick, but no big deal. Really, I don't think anything's lost,

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and I think people can understand when
but the level you can still hear

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him just fine. But this,
this is Chris Aback. Now, Chris,

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the reason why the timing is so
great is that we're going to have

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Jacques Valet at the UFO Congress this
year. And Chris co wrote the book

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Wonders in the Sky was Jacques.
So that's Jacques's latest book. Have you

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read that one? I have not, No, I plan on picking up

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and I hope I can get a
signed copy from Jacques himself out there.

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Get a copy now, OK,
go to the bookstore because I'm not sure

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that anybody's going to be selling his
book at the conference, and I'll bring

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a copy and have him sign it. Yeah, exactly. And so if

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you are planning on coming, bring
copies of the Jacques Valet books because I'm

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not sure everybody's going to have them. And at the beginning of the show,

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Chris says his name really cool.
He says that like Jacques, Jacque

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is VALI probably the right way.
Yeah, probably the right way, which

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sounds great, sounds much better than
the way most of us say it.

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But anyway, over time he started
just saying it like me. But it's

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cool, yeah, because Chris wrote
this book and this book is really cool

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because the subtitle is Unexplained Aerial Objects
from Antiquity to modern times. So it

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goes into you know, UFO sidings
that way into the past, and it

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shows that there were similar sightings hundreds, if not thousands of years ago,

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then there are now. And that's
what Chris and I talk about on this

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show is not only sightings but also
like paranormal experiences and even alien contact kind

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of experiences and beliefs about where these
things come from are similar to what was

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recorded hundreds, if not thousands of
years ago. So, you know,

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some of our common beliefs about some
of the things that we think are you

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know, more contemporary that are more
inventions of the modern time, are not

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necessarily they actually have you know,
stem from stories that are ancient. All

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that stuff fascinates me, Yeah,
very fascinating. He also has a book

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called OO Parts. It's in Spanish, it's not in English, but he

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hopes to get it in English and
OOPArts if you are. I forget what

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the acronym is, but it's an
early ancient Aliens acronym for objects that seem

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or items that seem like they're out
of place, like they're too advanced or

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something, and so we talk about
some ancient alien type of stuff as well.

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So he's just fascinating, a great
thinker, great researcher, and I

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think this is some really important historical
and sociological type of stuff when it comes

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to this field. Awesome. All
it'll be a great interview to listen to.

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Yeah, it's gonna be fun.
So he's born in London, but

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now he lives in Spain, so
yeah, this will be a lot of

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fun. I had a lot of
fun. And I should say his latest

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book is returned to Magonia. And
some people may recognize that name because one

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of Jacques Vallet's books is called A
Sport to Magonia. Oh yeah, so

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Chris's book is returned to Magonia.
And I asked Chris because I never knew

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this, I guess, uh,
I don't remember. I didn't remember at

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least what what is Magonia? Where's
that come from? Suing? He explains

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that to us too, right,
Yeah, so there we go. So

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that's going to be a lot of
fun. Before but before we get to

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the interview, let's talk about UFOs
in the news. What you got for

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me? All right? Well,
I am a big fan of objects that

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drop other objects or expel other type
of objects, not necessarily motherships and all

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that stuff, you know. I
mean you could speculate, but okay,

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So back a while back in Spokane, Spokane Valley, this is in Washington.

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It was a really great witnessing and
videotaping of this object. And it

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was the second time the witness had
seen this object, and it was a

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glowing sphere. And this happened on
January twenty six, twenty fourteen, so

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you know, every year ago.
This is a Moufon report written by Roger

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marsh And so this thing traveled toward
the house northbound, it stopped and changed

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direction to the east, and then
it just hovered there and eventually it expelled

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this object that was actually larger than
itself. It became small and the object

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that it dropped kind of faded out. And it's a great video of it,

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and you can hear the excitement of
the witnesses talking and filming with a

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couple of words. You may have
to closure years too, but anyway,

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I think it's a great sighting and
I'm kind of interested to hear if we

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know, if someone like say Mark
D'Antonio or someone ever took a look at

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this. What do you know about
that, Alejandro. I don't know if

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D'Antonio did. But the investigator on
this case was James Clarkson, who incidentally

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was one of the UFO one of
the speakers at last year's UFO Congress.

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He's a great researcher, great guy. I'm a big fan of James,

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and he had some interesting things to
say. He did say he got assistance

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from William Puckett, who was a
guy who does some science. I can't

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remember his background. It has to
do with aerospace or something like that,

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but I know he's, you know, a well respected person in like that

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scientific community and everything. So,
but he's retired from Noah, I guess

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so the but yeah, he had
gotten some information and about some anomalous radar

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returns in the area. They also
looked at weather, so which was calm

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at the time. Yeah, so
there was an intensive, a pretty extensive

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investigation of this. Because at first
I saw the video, I thought it

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looked similar to other videos I've seen, and I thought, you know,

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is this a hoax? Is this
one of these older videos? But you

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know, you're looking at the investigation, which is pretty thorough. It seems

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pretty fascinating. Yep, I would
call it unexplainable for sure. The video,

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I mean is pretty interesting when you
see this blinking thing and something dropping

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out of it. Yeap, yes, And I don't think there's any way,

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you know, Unfortunately the video is
only filmed while the thing is stationary,

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so you you know, you only
have to take the witness, so

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you can only take the witness.
This account for the try to did the

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zigzagging apparently, but but it's it's
just sitting there. But I don't think

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there's any type of like flair or
I don't think a Chinese land would drop

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something like that. I just I
don't know. I don't know it's interesting.

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Yeah, yeah, I don't think
so either. I mean, nothing

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that I know of. So of
course Mark always comes up with something,

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so you know, I haven't seen
he's in the Open mind UFO forum.

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We have an open mind gufoe news
right Facebook forum, and he's usually making

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comments, and I haven't seen if
he's commented on this story yet. Of

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course it was only posted on Friday, but I noticed he was in there

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commenting about other things this weekend,
so I haven't had a chance to really

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look through the comments for the weekend, but I got to check that out.

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But he got an email. I
got an email this weekend. Someone

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said to me that marked' antonio does
he think anything is f UFO. That's

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that someone. Yeah, No,
and he doesn't. Well, I don't

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think so. I don't know.
He does believe, of course in UFOs.

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In fact, he thinks he's seen
some very strange stuff. I mean

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he thinks possibly he's even had alien
encounters. And yeah, he's experienced lots

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of strange stuff. So he believes, you know, that there's something going

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on. It's just that the vast
majority of not all, of the videos

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and pictures he sees, he thinks
there could be answers for what those are.

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But the point is too, you
know, from a perspective. And

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I learned this from Bruce mcabee way
back when, because that was my Mark

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D'Antonio. And I get frustrated with
him when I was an investigator because I'm

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like, hey, you know,
what's going on with this or that?

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And he had explanations and I'm like, but the witness said this. But

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then I began to get it,
which was that they're looking from a perspective

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with the video alone, can I
prove it was anything unusual? So they'll

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come up with just like we do
we're taught to do when you investigate UFOs,

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they'll come up with, you know, this could be a street lamp

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for instance. I have to then
prove that it's not that. And if

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I can't prove that it's not something
mundane, then unfortunately this you know,

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the video is is not necessarily debunked, but it's not that extraordinary because I

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can't prove it's something extraordinary. So
it's a high bar they have, and

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rightly so I understand that, m
hm, because if you're going to take

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it to a sess shastack, let's
say he's going to say that's a street

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lamp, Well, no it's not. How can you prove that it's not,

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Well, the witness said this.
How do you know the witness was

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telling the truth? Well, and
of course then all you have is anecdotal.

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It's not evident. So I mean, and we need that extraordinary stuff

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to really standby when you know,
if we're going to take these two higher

238
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level right yep, I agree,
yeah, but this one though, I

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don't know what could do this right, so it's in that gray box as

240
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they say, yeah, I have
a feeling. He might say a drone

241
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could do it, but we'll see. Well, yeah, it would have

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to have some type of strange lighting
to do that, and then to be

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able to fade out and down to
a little it would have to be very

244
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controlled. I would say, yeah. Yeah, So it doesn't look like

245
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Mark has commented, So I'm gonna
put in here this one is weird a

246
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Mark, and then we'll see if
he's see if the fish will bite.

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Yeah. So hopefully everybody is in
our open mind GUFO News forum because we

248
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got lots of great conversation going on
in there. So another thing I want

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to talk about, really we don't
have I haven't been able to write any

250
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stories. Roger Marsh has posted a
couple others, but this, this video

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you just mentioned really is the best
story from the week. But the other

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story I want to talk about is, of course the some sad news,

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not totally shocking news for many of
us who knew that he was kind of

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in hospice care already, but unfortunately
doctor edgar Mitchell passed away this week well

255
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on Thursday night. Yes, very
sad and I spoke with someone that knew

256
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him, I think it was last
summer, and they said he was in

257
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poor health, so, yeah,
too bad. He's a great loss,

258
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great man. Yeah. Some others
who had been in contact with him,

259
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like James Fox, were posting some
updates and they said, you know,

260
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he had he was pretty sick.
He was what I think eighty five when

261
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he passed. So yeah, one
of the few people to actually walk on

262
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the moon, right, How extraordinary
is that. And I'm sure a lot

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of people know this, although I've
never had him on the show, but

264
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I'm sure we've talked about him.
I'm sure in the news quite a bit

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because he's made a lot of news
because he believed. Now he said he

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had no direct knowledge, he hadn't
seen aliens on the Moon or anywhere he

267
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had gone or UFOs. However,
he had spoken with other astronauts and he

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was from Roswell, New Mexico,
and he says he spoke with several people

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in New Mexico in Roswell who told
him about you know, what had happened

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back in nineteen forty seven. And
he says these are trusted people who he

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believes, so he believed there was
a UFO that crashed. There are an

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alien spacecraft that crashed there in Roswell
in forty seven near Roswell. He believed

273
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all those stories. He believed that
aliens were contacting or flying around here.

274
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I reposted a post of somebody and
you have to be careful with these alleged

275
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quotes, so I can't say for
sure this is a real quote. Probably

276
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is, though, but it was. We all know that UFOs are real.

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All we need to ask is where
do they come from? And what

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do they want? And that is
a quote question credited to Edgar Mitchell.

279
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So yeah, that keeps me going. Actually that same comment, And yeah,

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you know, I had a number
of conversations with Alan Bean, who

281
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was the fourth person to step on
the moon, about walking on the Moon

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and what people are calling it a
hoax and all that, and he says

283
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he doesn't try to change anyone's mind. But also he was involved in the

284
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nineteen seventy three Skylab UFO picture.
I'm not sure Skylab three back in nineteen

285
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seventy three, incredible pictures that they
took. He has absolutely no interest in

286
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talking about you. And so that
was really good that Edgar actually took and

287
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risked his reputation or whatever and actually
would talk about it. So what did

288
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he think was in the picture?
Are you talking about Alan Bean? Yeah,

289
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Alan wouldn't really discuss it with me. He said, he didn't talk

290
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about it. HM. So I
think he just he just wants to forget

291
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about it. And I talked.
I talked to him briefly last year about

292
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it, and I had him actually
on He's a very good artist, and

293
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I had him on my other my
antique and art podcast, and so that's

294
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how I got to know him.
Wow. Interesting has nothing to do with

295
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it. So there's only twelve people
to walk on the moon. Of those

296
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twelve people, two of them were
very into UFOs and paranormal phenomena, one

297
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being of course Mitchell, who we
talked about. The other being Harrison Schmidt,

298
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and he was really into and participated
in the cattle mutilation stuff. I

299
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had no idea. Yeah, And
actually in my talk where or my video

300
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that I go over the whole Richard
Dody UFO disinformation thing. Harrison Schmidt knew

301
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Paul Benowitz who was a UFO guy, and Harrison Schmidt came and to ask

302
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Doty, what's going on with this? This Paul Benowitz stuff, because Paul

303
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Benowitz was saying, hey, you
know, the military is looking into my

304
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UFOs and so yeah, Harrison Schmidt
kind of followed the field. So two

305
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of them. Some people say that
buzz Aldrin or Neil Armstrong were into UFOs

306
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or stuff like that, but they're
not. At least if they were at

307
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some point, they currently they say
they're not. So of course Neil Armstrong

308
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:03.000
is no longer around, but buzz
Aldrin is alive, and he does say

309
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he's not into that topic at all. He does make weird statements once in

310
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a while, like well we should
investigate these tall spears on planets or stuff

311
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like that. So maybe personally he
does believe, but he just doesn't want

312
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to say that per you know,
publicly, But publicly he's made it very

313
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clear that on several occasions he's,
i think, even on Coast to Coast

314
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and some other stuff, that he's
not into and doesn't believe in that sort

315
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of thing. But it wasn't he
on Larry King? Yeah, yeah,

316
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during the they're debating about UFOs.
Yeah, and it was really frustrating because

317
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he kept going into these long things
and there's like, hey, get to

318
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Chase. Yeah, and he was
saying, Okay, yeah, there,

319
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it wasn't a UFO. I saw
even though I was talking about it being

320
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a UFO. It was this part
of the rocket. And so I think

321
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Larry King was very frustrated with them. I think he was because he had

322
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kind of want and made comments prior
to that interview that seemed like he was

323
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did think he saw UFO. So
that's why Larry King wanted to figure out

324
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what the heck he was talking about. And then he was hemming and hawing

325
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around the topic and finally said no, and he wanted to be very clear,

326
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No, I did not see anything
strange. But yeah, he's he's

327
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kind of weird about the topic.
Yeah, I can understand what the pressure.

328
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Yeah. So yeah, so I
unfortunately I never even got to meet

329
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doctor Edgar Mitchell. Mitchell, he's
a busy guy, I know, and

330
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:41.240
he in the last few years he
hasn't been able to travel, so most

331
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:48.680
of the appearances he's made were via
skype because you know, his health had

332
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:53.119
been failing. So but of course
lots of our friends have met and interviewed

333
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:59.319
doctor Mitchell, and he was well
loved and he'll definitely be missed. I

334
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:02.279
mean, I think that this is
some pretty big news for the UFO community.

335
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:07.119
Yes, yeah, all right,
well I think that's all the news

336
00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:12.799
for now. Otherwise, you know, the UFO Congress starts. We're gonna

337
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:18.880
be moot halling stuff in a week, right wow, So yeah, we're

338
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:22.000
gonna get rolling. And then a
week from tomorrow is the movies, and

339
00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:26.640
I guess I should reiterate the film
Festival. We show all of the entries

340
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:33.319
on Tuesday beginning at nine am,
and anyone can come and watch those.

341
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:37.920
That's at the Weekapop conference center.
You know where the conference is. So

342
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.559
if you want to come watch those, come up, you know, come

343
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:47.559
on down and anybody. If you're
gonna see all the films in one particular

344
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:52.599
category, then you can also be
a judge, so wow. JK.

345
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:55.720
Scott, who runs it, will
be there and she'll be organizing that.

346
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:59.480
So yeah, come and judge if
you have the time. And some great

347
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:03.480
entries this year. And then the
top three in each category are showing on

348
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:07.920
Thursday and Friday night. They're only
shown once again, they're not all shown

349
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.440
on Thursday and Friday night. We
show the three from the two categories,

350
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.839
so that six films spread throughout Thursday
and Friday night, so even if you

351
00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:18.559
can't make it Tuesday, you'll be
able to see at least the top ones

352
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:23.640
on Thursday and Friday. So that's
always a lot of fun. I can't

353
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:27.640
wait. Yeah, so it'll be
cool. So I guess we'll see you

354
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:32.680
there, buddy. You bet I
will be rolling out there soon. All

355
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:37.119
right, Well, thanks so much
for joining us for the news. Wen

356
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:41.759
as always, let's go ahead and
talk to Chris. I am very excited

357
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:45.319
to welcome to the show. Chris. Allback, and you're in Spain right

358
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:51.119
now, right either, Yeah,
i am. I'm in a small town

359
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:57.119
called Montrill, which is on the
southern coast of Spain. And yeah,

360
00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:02.720
it's nice here. It's a good
weather all year round. Well that's exciting.

361
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:06.559
Spain looks beautiful. I've never been
there, but it's definitely one of

362
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:11.519
the places I want to visit one
day. Well, you're welcome to pay

363
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:15.400
me a visit whenever you want.
Great, I'll show you around. Well,

364
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:18.599
it's going to be a goal then
to take you up on that,

365
00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:22.839
because you know this is actually I'm
excited to talk to you because you've worked

366
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:26.440
with you know, one of the
greats, and of course the books.

367
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:36.160
At least you know your book with
Jacques, the latest one, The Wonders

368
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:38.359
in the Sky, was excellent.
It's one of my favorite books ever.

369
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:44.960
But and I've been intending to talk
to you ever since I got to interview

370
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:47.759
Jacques, and I was so happy
to do that for that book. And

371
00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:52.480
of course now I'm really excited for
the chance to meet him. In a

372
00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:56.599
few weeks. He's going to be
speaking at our big UFO conference that we

373
00:29:56.680 --> 00:30:03.039
do. Surprisingly, were you aware
of that? Actually, yeah, he

374
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:07.960
did mention it to me. He
doesn't do a lot of conferences. I

375
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:15.039
had a conference myself in Madrid in
May and he came to that, which

376
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:19.240
I was very I was very grateful
that he did, because it's hard to

377
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:26.000
get good, you know, you
pologists from the States to come to Spain.

378
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.400
It's mainly a question of money,
timing. I mean, it's not

379
00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:34.559
that easy to bring people across from
such you know, far away places.

380
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:41.319
But fortunately Jack's spends a front,
so you know, it wasn't too far

381
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:45.440
for him on this occasion. And
yeah, he gave us a great talk,

382
00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:48.920
and I'm hoping that I can I
can do another conference like that.

383
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:56.920
In a year or so. Great. That's exciting. And I understand what

384
00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:00.440
you mean because we used to have
more international speakers as well well for our

385
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.480
conference, but it gets so expensive, the five people back and forth,

386
00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:08.240
and it makes it really difficult.
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's

387
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:12.240
just yeah. I mean some people
think that, you know, there's a

388
00:31:12.279 --> 00:31:19.240
lot of money and publishing books,
and there isn't. It's mainly a work

389
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:25.240
of you know, it's it's it's
hobbyies really and you can't. You can't

390
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:27.960
make a lot of money from publishing
books and magazine articles and so on.

391
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:36.039
So there are no funds really to
support this kind of venture. So it's

392
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:41.640
a question of luck and the generosity
of organizations if they can bring speakers over

393
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:47.000
from other countries. So I do
want to ask, we will definitely get

394
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:52.279
into your background and the books that
you've written, but out of curiosity now

395
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:55.119
that we're talking about Jacques, and
of course this is Jacques Vallet. For

396
00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:57.799
the listeners, I'm sure they know
because I've of course been gushing about and

397
00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:02.119
excited about him coming to the conference. However, I do want to ask,

398
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:07.680
how did you first meet him and
begin to work with him? Well,

399
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:14.440
well, when I arrived in Spain
in the year nineteen ninety one,

400
00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:17.480
which was really a massive adventure,
and I didn't know where I was going

401
00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:21.359
or what I was going to do. I just had a few books with

402
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:28.480
me and one was here, I
believe it was Passport to Mcgonia, and

403
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:36.759
I realized that I wanted to spend
a lot of time on researching a historical

404
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:40.519
UFO cases. And the best person
to do that with, or at least

405
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:47.200
contact about that kind of thing,
what was Jacq Sali. But in the

406
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:52.440
early nineties there was no way that
I could possibly find his address or anything.

407
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:58.000
I was totally isolated in a small
Spanish town. And this was before

408
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:00.720
internet arrived. I mean, even
if it existed elsewhere in the world,

409
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:06.880
it certainly wasn't in cafes in Extremadura
in Spain. But in the year nineteen

410
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:12.720
ninety seven, I finally got my
hands on a computer and I discovered the

411
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:16.319
Internet, or what was the internet
in nineteen ninety seven. It was a

412
00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:21.400
lot more limited than it is now. And I sent my first ever email

413
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:27.359
and it was to Jacks Fera and
because I just found his email on some

414
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:34.119
random web page, and he replied
and about three years later, when I

415
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:42.880
moved to Madrid. There I had
better internet access. I sort of reinitiated

416
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:45.359
our correspondence and I invited him to
the group that I was forming at the

417
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:50.039
time. He said, yeah,
I want to be a part of that.

418
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:52.680
And then I went to visit him
in Portugal. He came to do

419
00:33:52.759 --> 00:34:00.359
a conference on something to do with
cosmology, and I took a train to

420
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:07.640
to a Porto to go and visit
him, and I was with him and

421
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:14.079
his wife, now suddenly has died, Janine, and we spent a few

422
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:17.440
days together and it was great.
You know. I was like talking to

423
00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:21.840
him about my future projects with books, and I said, why don't we

424
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:28.679
write a book together? And he
said to me no, but I didn't

425
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:34.719
care. I went back doing them. I went to to Spain and about

426
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:39.119
a year later I was I was
wandering around the supermarket buying cheese and he

427
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:43.880
called me and he said, I've
changed my mind. Let's write something together.

428
00:34:44.119 --> 00:34:46.360
So that's basically it. He was
the first guy I ever wrote an

429
00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:51.039
email to, and then I went
to visit him in put How cool,

430
00:34:51.159 --> 00:34:57.599
what a great story your first email
it? You know, I don't know

431
00:34:57.639 --> 00:35:00.960
whom, Yeah, you know,
it's it's nicely, that's really funny.

432
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:06.079
I don't know who my first email
was to. That's really now you have

433
00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:10.360
me wondering who that might have been
to. Might have been my mom or

434
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:16.880
it very likely could have been UFO
related or something. But so the organization

435
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:21.719
you said you created that you invited
him to join. Which sort of organization

436
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:24.760
was that? Yeah, in the
year two thousand and three. In April

437
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:31.320
two thousand and three, I founded
a group of UFO experts, writers,

438
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:38.079
researchers, and so on to try
to bring together all of the material published

439
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:45.320
in centuries past. So we're talking
about the early nineties, the nineteenth century,

440
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:50.320
the early twentieth century, and the
centuries before that, anything published which

441
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:58.800
might give us a clue as to
UFO phenomena observed in historical times. And

442
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:02.320
the groups called my Go Exchange.
It's been going on for like thirteen years

443
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:12.239
now, and we've collected about thirty
thousand different objects documents, thirty thousand items

444
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:20.119
which includes cuttings and manuscripts and pages
from diaries and images and so published over

445
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:25.400
the last three or four hundred years, which seem to show that the UFO

446
00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:32.440
phenomenon has been going on for this
long's it's it's something which has never really

447
00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:37.519
gone away. So yeah, we've
we've collected all this information together and by

448
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:45.800
analyzing it, by doing statistical analyses
and by researching the individual cases, at

449
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:50.119
least we can prove that people have
believed in practically the same things for at

450
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:55.480
least three hundred years. So and
the term goone Yet, like, what

451
00:36:55.480 --> 00:37:02.039
does that mean to you? What
is its important? Well, Magonia itself

452
00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:12.119
originally referred to a place, an
unknown place, somewhere outside France. It

453
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:15.199
could have been in the sky,
or it could have been another dimension,

454
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:19.480
or it could have been an enemy
country. Nobody really knows where it was.

455
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:29.000
But one thousand and five hundred years
ago, the French, the superstitious

456
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:35.320
farmers, that kind of people,
believed that ships were coming from this mysterious

457
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:42.280
kingdom of Magonia. They were coming
through the sky and stealing the crops.

458
00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:50.920
And it was connected with traditions about
spirits involved with thunderstorms and so on.

459
00:37:51.239 --> 00:38:00.360
But it was a term which Jacques
Valet took to describe these historical accounts of

460
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:07.039
UFOs and encounters, so he used
it for the title of his book Passport

461
00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:14.239
to Magonia. So when I started
my group, I called it Mcgonia Exchange.

462
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:19.960
Exchange, of course means that all
the members had to send whatever material

463
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.440
they had at home, which most
of us as researchers have boxes and boxes

464
00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:31.119
of documents and photocopies and clippings just
rotting away in the attic. And because

465
00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:37.480
nowadays it's so easy to scan or
just take a photo of the documents that

466
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:40.559
you have, then they could send
it to the group and then we could

467
00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:45.519
share it among all of us.
And that's why it's called Macgonia Exchange.

468
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:52.199
And of course my latest book with
Martin Schoff is called Return to Magonia,

469
00:38:52.480 --> 00:39:00.280
which again is sort of in honor
of Jacks Valet's original or seminal study,

470
00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:12.880
Passport to Magonia. And now's your
first book, OOPArt, Well, that

471
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:17.519
that's a book which I published in
Spanish last September. I wouldn't say it

472
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:21.679
was my first book, but it
was a book which I published in Spanish

473
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:30.159
with a historian from the Complutensa Diversity
called Sanchez Ordo. And what we do

474
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:36.280
in that book is together as many
upats or stories about upas, which of

475
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:40.280
course are out of place artifacts,
that is, objects which seemed to be

476
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:46.159
too advanced for the time period that
they correspond with, like finding a nail

477
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:52.400
or a hammer in a lump of
rock or coal. To bring all those

478
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:58.039
stories together, analyze them and see
which of those could could be proved true

479
00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:05.960
and which of them should be rejected
as fakes or misunderstandings and so on.

480
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:08.840
So yeah, I'm hoping to publish
the same book one day, and in

481
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:14.199
English. So I think it's an
interesting topic. Yeah, it's kind of

482
00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:17.360
an ancient alien topic, which of
course is really popular, that's right,

483
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:22.519
Yeah, and still yes these days, ancient aliens. Yeah, it's it's

484
00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:28.400
it's something which I'm very interested in
because ancient aliens is a topic that's never

485
00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:35.199
really gone away. So getting into
the topics of the book, looking historical

486
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:44.239
into you know, people stories that
are similar to current UFO stories. What

487
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:51.639
are some of the trends that you've
seen. Well, the first thing is

488
00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:58.039
that people have, you know,
over the last two thousand years, people

489
00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:04.599
have reported very similar looking objects in
the sky. I don't really have any

490
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:09.119
particular belief about what they represent,
but it is true that many of them

491
00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:15.320
seem to be a little bit similar. For example, when I was working

492
00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:20.719
on returning to Magonia with Martin Schoff, we found a series of stories about

493
00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:24.800
the moon which opens up in the
middle of the sky, so it couldn't

494
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:32.599
there's been the moon obviously, and
entities came out of the sphere, the

495
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:38.199
white sphere, and would either dance
around the sky or descend to the Earth.

496
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:43.679
There are a lot of stories which
are very similar and which were told

497
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:50.679
over you know, several generations,
which seem to indicate, if not the

498
00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:57.480
presence of an anoomily in the sky, at least it shows how human imagination

499
00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:04.480
works very much according to the same
principles, no matter what century we happen

500
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:08.360
to be in. So that's you
know, that's one thing I found also

501
00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:19.199
in my own research into historical accounts
of abduction by strange entities, you can

502
00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:27.800
find very similar stories repeated throughout time, even involving babies, hybrids, all

503
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:34.159
this kind of thing, which is
very similar to what abductees are reporting today.

504
00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:38.239
Again, I don't want to say
whether this is I can't really say

505
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:44.199
whether this is true, whether it's
actually happening or it's just a part of

506
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:52.000
natural human imagenation, but it's certainly
worth worth looking at, because you know,

507
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:59.559
it's we're looking at the same stories
being told over a very long period,

508
00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:02.880
probably least one thousand years. In
fact, there was a seventeenth century

509
00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:09.159
mystic called Jane Lad who wrote not
only about her Ufo sightings, but also

510
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:16.039
about how she found herself transported to
a star in the sky or at some

511
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:27.480
other worldly place where she met angelic
beings who showed her children or who showed

512
00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:34.440
her different things about the universe.
There's are stories which seem to reoccur with

513
00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:42.119
every generation, which is fascinating,
especially because you know, I think a

514
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:45.639
lot of people have the feeling and
even a lot of researchers that a lot

515
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:51.280
of this is a new phenomena.
Well, when we think about how old

516
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:55.039
uphology might be or the belief in
extraterrestrial life might be. On the one

517
00:43:55.079 --> 00:44:00.440
hand, we have sightings that go
back to Sumerian time times, and we

518
00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:13.320
can find documents, very old documents
from medieval times, ancient Chinese documents thousands

519
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:15.800
of years old that describe things in
the sky that they didn't know how to

520
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:22.519
identify. But then on the other
hand, there's this belief, a corresponding

521
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:30.000
belief that the universe was populated by
intelligent beings, which is an idea that

522
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:37.519
originated in ancient Greece among a school
of philosophy. For example, the atomists

523
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:45.119
believe that the universe was teeming with
life very similar to our own. But

524
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:50.239
it's an idea that has continued throughout
the age years and especially since the medieval

525
00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:57.639
period, people have wondered whether other
planets are populated by intelligent beings like ourselves.

526
00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:04.960
So all of this it shows that
ufology has very deep roots. It

527
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.000
doesn't mean that UFOs are really here. It doesn't mean extraterrestrials really visit us.

528
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:13.519
I'm not going to express an opinion
about that at this stage, but

529
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:22.079
it does mean that at least the
idea of extraterrestrial visits has been continuous throughout

530
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:27.400
history well. And I find this
fascinating too, because I'm very into the

531
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:34.880
historical and sociological aspects as well,
especially when you know myself writing a lot

532
00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:37.480
about these stories and following you know, the origins of them. Some of

533
00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:45.239
them turn out to be dubious.
However, the idea that this is a

534
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:52.400
part of our history and are you
know, mythos is important, and it

535
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:59.800
seems that academia often shies away from
the topic, even though it is prevalent

536
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:07.280
enough to warrant I think research,
just because of kind of the how the

537
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:13.559
topic is viewed, it doesn't get
the attention perhaps that it should. Well,

538
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:19.639
it depends on what topic referring to. For example, the idea that

539
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:27.719
the universe might be populated is a
sum jack that's well, there's been very

540
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:35.960
good academic books written just about this
idea that maybe we're living in in a

541
00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:42.119
universe inhabited by lots of intelligent beings. Then the idea that people have seen

542
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:47.639
strange things in the sky, that
also gets some degree of attention from scholars,

543
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:59.519
particularly people who study the history of
geological phenomena meteors, comets, and

544
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:07.559
so on. Where I mean where
ufologists get frustrated is that academics don't normally

545
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:13.840
like to speculate about the nature of
UFOs themselves. They don't like to connect

546
00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:17.559
those two dots. The idea that
we're living in a universe possibly full of

547
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:23.480
life, and that maybe the lights
in the sky have an extraterrestrial origin,

548
00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:30.119
might be piloted by beings from another
planet. This is something that frustrates a

549
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:36.679
lot of academics. But I don't
think that's ever going to change. Well,

550
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:44.199
there's also the aspect of whether or
not people are being abducted. I

551
00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:47.639
mean, like you say, there's
this history that goes way back of people

552
00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:54.280
believing they've had some sort of experience
being whisked away by strange creatures, and

553
00:47:54.320 --> 00:48:00.519
whether or not that's happened. It's
certainly a very prevalent story, and it

554
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:05.039
seems to me there are so many
people these days making these claims, believing

555
00:48:05.079 --> 00:48:08.760
to have had these sort of experiences, that it does warrant some attention,

556
00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:17.880
but it doesn't seem to get that
well. The problem is that the people

557
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:25.360
who pay well, the academics scholars
who pay attention to abduction reports don't normally

558
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:30.320
reach the same clusion conclusions as uthologists
do. So they might study it as

559
00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:40.320
a kind of folk law or as
a as sociocultural phenomenon, something which corresponds

560
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:49.719
with UFOs and belief in extraterrestrial visits, which started really around the middle of

561
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:57.320
the nineteenth century. But the thing
is not that people don't look into abduction

562
00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:06.840
claims seriously, but the conclusion they
reach don't really satisfy UFO researchers. If

563
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:14.199
if you look into any archive of
university articles, reports on the internet,

564
00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:20.880
or in any in any good university
library, you'll find studies of of this

565
00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:24.760
kind of a thing, this kind
of phenomenon. Simply they're not published in

566
00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:30.039
UFO magazines. Most UFO writers don't
get to see them, and they don't

567
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:37.079
draw any conclusions that support the idea
that UFOs are really abducting us. So

568
00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:40.880
it's not that it doesn't happen,
it's just that they reach a completely different

569
00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:45.519
set of conclusions. Well, I
don't know. I don't see that.

570
00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:50.480
I don't see that it happens.
I don't. I don't even because I

571
00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:53.760
think it would be interesting even at
the social psychological all right, especially at

572
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:59.800
a psychological level, that it should
be looked at, regardless of the conclusions.

573
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:02.000
But maybe do you see that more
in Europe, because I don't see

574
00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:07.679
that in the US, I don't
see academic studies very very far and few

575
00:50:07.719 --> 00:50:12.199
between. Well, I don't see. I mean I probably have on my

576
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:20.840
computer about twenty five or thirty academic
studies of abduction phenomena, UFOs, close

577
00:50:20.920 --> 00:50:24.599
encounters and so on. I mean, they do exist. There's certainly not

578
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:34.199
as many good academic studies of this
as there are normal generic euthhological studies of

579
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:37.559
the same kind of thing, and
they're not given a lot of publicity either,

580
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:42.519
so it's not something that you'll find
easily. But you know, people

581
00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:47.239
have actually written university theses on this
topic. The main thing is though that

582
00:50:47.559 --> 00:50:52.360
their conclusions, as I said,
differ from those of most euthologists. But

583
00:50:52.800 --> 00:51:02.039
it's like, for example, the
topic of ancient astronaut because this is thing

584
00:51:02.119 --> 00:51:07.559
with vulnerable again in the last three
years, a few years, mainly because

585
00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:15.440
of TV documentaries, but you can
also find some good serious studies of the

586
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:22.559
history of this and what it means. I've seen academic reports comparing a belief

587
00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:29.360
in ancient astronauts with racism, for
example, the idea that our you know,

588
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:32.920
why do we have to suppose that
our aner desters were too stupid to

589
00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:38.840
build the monuments that some of us
think might have come from outer space or

590
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:44.639
of or have been built by by
aliens. So I mean this kind of

591
00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:49.920
study does exist, simply you have
to really search for it to find it.

592
00:51:50.360 --> 00:51:53.840
That's the problem. Yeah, Well, and that end is interesting.

593
00:51:53.880 --> 00:52:00.960
It seems like that end is a
little more accessible, and there seem to

594
00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:05.320
be just because it is more prevalent, and there's I guess more hands on

595
00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:09.199
you you can do and it's not
as fringe as some of the others,

596
00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:13.360
but kind of moving away from that, I guess and moving into the ancient

597
00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:19.199
aliens kind of arena. This is
kind of an area where it's more than

598
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:24.599
just folklore, but you actually have
something physical to examine. Although I completely

599
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:30.679
agree with you, I mean in
that one of the things I think that

600
00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:32.760
your stories are some of the things
that you've just talked about. Now,

601
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:44.639
it's just how advanced previous cultures have
been in philosophy, in governance, and

602
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:52.159
and I think that these days we
we believe ourselves to be maybe a lot

603
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:57.360
more advanced in those ways than we
were in the past, and we actually

604
00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:05.719
were. Well. I think that
the problem with this is that a lot

605
00:53:05.719 --> 00:53:09.960
of people don't really know so much
about history, and they don't know a

606
00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:19.000
lot about how cultures have evolved,
how science has evolved over the years.

607
00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:24.559
When you look at the development of
science, science and scientific they discoveries.

608
00:53:25.039 --> 00:53:31.119
Most of the mysteries of the world, things like the Easter Island statues or

609
00:53:31.239 --> 00:53:39.760
the Great Pyramid do slot in quite
well into the into the established and known

610
00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:45.960
history of each of these civilizations.
I don't I've never really seen any reason

611
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:55.119
to say that our ancestors couldn't have
created the monuments of Egypt or anywhere in

612
00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:59.480
the world, you know, South
America. I think this is one of

613
00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:05.000
the biggest flaws with the ancient astronaut
theory. People have to have to start

614
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:08.920
reading history books again and looking into
the origins of this. The thing is,

615
00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:15.800
the ancient astronaut theory was developed first
a very very long time ago,

616
00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:22.159
and much you know, it's much
older than Eric Vanika and the Ancient Astronaut

617
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:24.880
Society which I used to belong to
when I was younger. In fact,

618
00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:32.280
the ancient astronaut theory was first developed
in the eighteen twenty three in France,

619
00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:42.000
and it's never gone away. It's
something which has pursised did for well,

620
00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:46.039
it's going to be two hundred years
soon. Originally, most of the books

621
00:54:46.119 --> 00:54:53.039
published in the early nineteenth centuries said
that our ancestors might have come from another

622
00:54:53.199 --> 00:55:00.639
play planet and brought science with them, and they speculated that that planet had

623
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:07.400
been a body in our universe that
had exploded or was destroyed by a comet

624
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:14.000
or something, and that the remnants
of that planet were scattered across the Solar

625
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:16.719
System, and a lot of them
have fallen onto Earth, and this was

626
00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:22.079
a very popular theory throughout the nineteenth
century. The problem is that the theory

627
00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:29.800
existed before and he proofed it,
and that's another floor in the ancient an

628
00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:36.719
astronaut hypothesis. Today, the theory
exists, and so people served such desperately

629
00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:42.440
for proof to support it. But
in my experience, I haven't found any

630
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:47.079
ouparts that have really convinced me that
they could have only come from another planet

631
00:55:47.199 --> 00:55:55.079
or have been built by by an
especially advanced civilization. So I don't I

632
00:55:55.079 --> 00:56:00.360
don't know. It's something that interests
me a lot. When people ask about

633
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:08.119
this, I often mention that in
the eighteen seventies, a French scientist called

634
00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:14.960
Uflesni said that he thought that Australia
itself, the whole continent, had come

635
00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:22.800
from outer space as an asteroid.
He believed that maybe Australia had had fallen

636
00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:28.320
from out of space into the Pacific
Ocean, that this had caused Noah's Flood

637
00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:34.119
and other natural disasters, and that
this explains why there are so many strange

638
00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:39.679
animals on that continent and plants and
things that you won't find anywhere else in

639
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:43.599
the world. But when you look
at it, you realize that the only

640
00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:47.880
reason he said this was that it
gave White I mean this was according to

641
00:56:49.239 --> 00:56:53.719
him, not according to me.
It gave White colonizers an excuse to take

642
00:56:53.760 --> 00:57:00.760
the land away from the from the
Australian natives, because they said, well,

643
00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:05.280
if it's fallen into our territory,
it must be long to us now.

644
00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:09.960
And so there's been so much written
and that that excuse was actually used

645
00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:17.440
to take land away. Yes,
wow, the dangers of ancient astronaut theory,

646
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:22.280
Well that's true, and not much
has changed since then, perhaps,

647
00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:25.519
you know, but and it's something
that you can find again and again.

648
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:34.440
There have been a lot of theories
in the past which have said, well,

649
00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:39.039
these monuments. For example, there
was a guy in the eighteen sixties

650
00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:47.800
who said that the statues on Easter
Island could only have come from another planet

651
00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:53.199
that had exploded and just scattered them
across the universe. And it was a

652
00:57:53.239 --> 00:58:00.559
way of saying, well, the
islanders that we see today in the specific

653
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:06.239
too stupid to have made these monuments
themselves. So if they don't really belong

654
00:58:06.320 --> 00:58:08.760
to them, then you know,
we can take them for ourselves, and

655
00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:15.000
that's just just an argument they used
again and again. There's a strong political

656
00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:22.280
motivation behind a lot of these a
lot of these ancient astronaut theories unfoughtun That's

657
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:27.440
really interesting and it's funny because as
you've been talking, I've been thinking about

658
00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:36.880
it's interesting that Easter Island, some
of these other mysteries, histories, mysteries

659
00:58:36.920 --> 00:58:44.119
that were suspected to be extraterrestrial and
origins have kind of been discovered, like

660
00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:49.119
they've discovered ways how humans probably did
do these things. At the same time,

661
00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:52.840
even though some of these series have
kind of been debunked, pretty much,

662
00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:58.239
the ancient aliens theory gets more and
more popular. And one thing that

663
00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:01.639
kind of highlighted this as the last
episode of The X Files, where at

664
00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:07.000
the beginning Moulder was brooding because he's
like, you know, since we've been

665
00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:10.880
away, which has been since the
series was on before, they've debunked all

666
00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:15.760
of these different things that he that
you know, we're due to aliens,

667
00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:21.480
which is kind of funny. But
even though that's happened, the idea gets

668
00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:25.639
more and more popular. Yeah,
it is interesting how that's how that's happened.

669
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:30.079
I mean, obviously a lot of
it's because of this documentary series what's

670
00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:37.559
it called Ancient Alien. Yeah,
it's it's not something which I generally watch,

671
00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:43.480
and I mean I can I can
see the attraction. But as I

672
00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:49.400
said, it's something that's attracted people
since the year eighteen twenty three. And

673
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:53.039
you know, the proof for these
ideas has never got any better. In

674
00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:57.360
the nineteenth century, there was absolutely
no proof at all, but it was

675
00:59:57.400 --> 01:00:00.880
still a very popular topic, very
very popular topic. I mean, even

676
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:07.280
Madame Blovatski was, you know,
it was influenced by this this idea,

677
01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:13.159
and many books were published at that
time saying that the Martians had come to

678
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:17.079
had come to Earth like straddled on
a meteorite or something, and they had

679
01:00:17.079 --> 01:00:23.840
an initiate created human civilization. That
in the book Up Parts, which I

680
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:32.559
published with my friend Sanchezardo las September
here in Spain, we look at all

681
01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:40.800
of the geological mysteries, these geological
artifacts, like for example, when they

682
01:00:40.840 --> 01:00:47.960
found a coin or a chain or
nail inside a lump of coal at you

683
01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:53.320
know, at some geological level that
would indicate that these objects must be millions

684
01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:58.400
of years old. And the problem
is is that most of them. I

685
01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:01.239
mean not all of them, but
most of these stories which have been used

686
01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:08.639
a couple of decades by writers like
Michael Kremer, who wrote Forbidden Archaeology,

687
01:01:08.679 --> 01:01:13.760
and a lot of other people who
believe in either creationism, which is a

688
01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:16.760
group that supports the existence of upat, or people who just want to say

689
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:21.440
that we want to believe that extraterrestrials
would here thousands of years ago. A

690
01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:27.199
lot lot of these artifacts were published
in newspapers at a time when the press

691
01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:38.320
was desperately trying to compete with the
Europeans who were reporting kinds of giant dinosaur

692
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:45.000
bones and things like that. It
was a period when North America, because

693
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:49.480
most of these artifacts only appeared in
North American newspapers, we find, were

694
01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:55.119
trying to show that there had been
a golden age in North American prehistory that

695
01:01:55.280 --> 01:02:00.079
competed with or even was better than
the Golden Age of the Old World,

696
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:06.880
that is Europe, Greece and Egypt
and so on. So while the curators

697
01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:12.639
of British or European Ian museums were
saying, oh, we have these enormous

698
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:16.360
dinosaur bones, the Americans were saying, well, our dinosaur bones are much

699
01:02:16.360 --> 01:02:21.599
bigger. And while Europeans were saying, well, we you know, we

700
01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:25.320
have these wonderful Greek monuments and this
is the and here we have the Biblical

701
01:02:25.400 --> 01:02:31.639
lands, and maybe the Biblical patriarch
arks walked across this land in ancient times.

702
01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:36.159
Then in North America they said,
well, oh, here too,

703
01:02:36.320 --> 01:02:40.119
we have this, and we found
Egyptian tablets. And then of course Mormonism

704
01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:46.960
sprang up where they said, well
based particularly biblical patriarchs also walked here.

705
01:02:47.079 --> 01:02:55.639
So aupats eight from a period when
North America was competing directly with Europe to

706
01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:00.880
you know, to establish this this
wonderful golden past for itself. But when

707
01:03:00.920 --> 01:03:06.880
you look into the cases the individual
artifact, you normally find that they never

708
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:13.119
existed at all, or they were
invented by the editor of the newspaper.

709
01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:21.280
You know. Sometimes you read missus
Smith or whatever founder a golden chain in

710
01:03:21.320 --> 01:03:25.440
a lump of coal that indicates that
there was an advanced civilization here hundreds of

711
01:03:25.480 --> 01:03:30.079
thousands of years ago. When you
look into who this woman was, as

712
01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:31.760
you discovered that she was the wife
of the newspaper editor, you know,

713
01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:37.679
what a coincidence and someone and someone, So it's a big topic. It's

714
01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:40.519
an interesting topic, and I'd like
to write write about it seriously in the

715
01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:44.639
future, and who knows, maybe
a new part of real who part might

716
01:03:44.760 --> 01:03:50.079
material I realize I live in hope, right, And that's what's great about

717
01:03:50.079 --> 01:03:54.239
this stuff because it's something that me
and my girlfriend argue about often, where

718
01:03:54.679 --> 01:03:58.719
she's like, well, how did
that happen? But just because we don't

719
01:03:58.760 --> 01:04:03.519
know it's origins, and it doesn't
mean it's not a genuine mystery, But

720
01:04:03.639 --> 01:04:11.159
it also doesn't necessarily mean it aliens. And which is always my argument,

721
01:04:11.199 --> 01:04:15.360
which is, you know, something
that I appreciate even though it frustrats people

722
01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:18.440
about Jacques, who's always you know, been there to say, hey,

723
01:04:18.440 --> 01:04:24.199
wait a minute, we don't know
what the origins of X y Z or

724
01:04:24.239 --> 01:04:27.920
the origins of this mystery, but
it doesn't necessarily mean it's alien. It

725
01:04:27.920 --> 01:04:31.719
could be something altogether different. Yeah, that's right. But you know,

726
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:38.920
I mean every scientific fields has it
its mysteries. If you look into botany

727
01:04:39.159 --> 01:04:46.239
and astrophysics and geology and biology,
every scientific field has its mysteries, has

728
01:04:46.320 --> 01:04:54.159
its frauds and hoaxes, has its
wild speculation, has its strange you know

729
01:04:54.280 --> 01:04:59.920
data that no one knows exactly what
to do with its advocates and its debunkers.

730
01:05:00.119 --> 01:05:02.239
There isn't a scientific field in the
world it doesn't have all of that,

731
01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:10.199
and so it's not it's not surprising
at all that euthology also has this,

732
01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:13.639
and it's not a scientific field euthology, but it is one in which

733
01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:18.280
there's a lot of passionate debate about
what all this means. So, yeah,

734
01:05:18.320 --> 01:05:21.280
it doesn't have to be aliens,
of course, it could be something

735
01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:28.840
else. Entirely. We have to
we have to somehow sort of cut away

736
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:34.400
this obsession that we have with with
alien visitors and open our minds to other

737
01:05:34.440 --> 01:05:40.239
possibilities, whether they're you know,
whether we should look for more mundane,

738
01:05:41.639 --> 01:05:47.800
mundane explanations psychosocial ones, or whether
it's interdimensional travelers who are here on a

739
01:05:47.840 --> 01:05:54.599
shopping spree. You know, we
have to open minds to as many theories

740
01:05:54.639 --> 01:06:01.920
as possible. But then you know, present theory is using proper facts rather

741
01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:06.960
than you know, present every crazy
idea that occurs to us. I think

742
01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:12.360
a lot of people too, just
don't like not knowing. So it's easy

743
01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:15.960
to say, oh, that's aliens, it's done. Everything's that. It's

744
01:06:16.039 --> 01:06:20.400
much easier to have a black and
white kind of world where things are either

745
01:06:20.599 --> 01:06:24.920
X, Y or Z, but
it's harder to say I don't know,

746
01:06:27.239 --> 01:06:30.239
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I
think it's important to look at the origins

747
01:06:30.280 --> 01:06:34.960
of all of this. Yes,
that's what interests me. As I said,

748
01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:39.000
I don't know what, you know, I just want to find out

749
01:06:39.039 --> 01:06:42.760
where it all comes from. That's
what fascinates me. Well, that's what's

750
01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:47.519
fascinating about your work, because I
think that that's terribly important because, like

751
01:06:47.599 --> 01:06:57.719
you've noted, it can demonstrate that
the UFO phenomena or the alien abduction phenomena

752
01:06:58.599 --> 01:07:01.840
are not necessarily new things, that
these are things that people have been reporting

753
01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:06.679
or talking about for a very long
time. Yeah, that's right, And

754
01:07:09.199 --> 01:07:13.880
you know what, that's what I'm
interested in particularly, and that's why I

755
01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:18.400
have this group Mcgonia Exchange, which
if anyone listening is interested in joining,

756
01:07:18.679 --> 01:07:23.880
you know, they can find me
in Facebook or at Chris orbit dot com,

757
01:07:23.920 --> 01:07:28.519
you know, and they can join
the hunt for historical cases. And

758
01:07:28.599 --> 01:07:31.119
at the same time, it's the
reason why I'm fascinated by the origin of

759
01:07:31.199 --> 01:07:38.920
some of the typical terms that we
use the terminology and in uphology because people

760
01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:44.280
don't know quite often where this comes
from. In the book Returned to Magonia,

761
01:07:44.360 --> 01:07:48.199
which published with Martin Schock just a
couple of months ago, we talk

762
01:07:48.280 --> 01:07:56.519
about the origin of the term flying
saucer and how that pre dates Kenneth Arnold

763
01:07:56.559 --> 01:08:02.039
by probably about fifty years or so. You know, the expression, yeah,

764
01:08:02.119 --> 01:08:05.719
flying saucer, I mean, it
wasn't invented in nineteen forty seven at

765
01:08:05.719 --> 01:08:11.920
all. It was it comes from
you know, originally, the word flying

766
01:08:11.920 --> 01:08:19.439
saucer came into existence to describe the
little discs which were thrown for trapshoe to

767
01:08:19.479 --> 01:08:26.359
practice on. And it was an
expression that was used from the beginning of

768
01:08:26.399 --> 01:08:30.560
the twentieth century, probably about nineteen
oh six, nineteen oh seven, you

769
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:34.800
can find it, you know,
for a decade it's and when I mean

770
01:08:34.840 --> 01:08:40.479
even in nineteen forty seven, people, I mean before Arnold, the term

771
01:08:40.560 --> 01:08:45.039
flying saucer was still in quite common
use to describe these discs. So I

772
01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:53.520
find it interesting because most of us
realized that UFOs are not usually disc shaped,

773
01:08:54.640 --> 01:08:57.119
and you know, there's this question, why do we call them flying

774
01:08:57.159 --> 01:09:01.439
saucers if they're not actually disc shaped
most of the time. And we've reached

775
01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:06.399
the conclusion that is probably because it's
it was such a popular expression at the

776
01:09:06.399 --> 01:09:12.600
time, flying sauce, so that
people just kept on using it, even

777
01:09:12.680 --> 01:09:16.520
though they were looking at hexagonal shaped
objects, cube shaped objects, and so

778
01:09:16.560 --> 01:09:24.399
on. So, you know,
the popularity of this pre existing term flying

779
01:09:24.479 --> 01:09:30.880
saucer probably helped shape the evolution of
upology. You know, because these days

780
01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:42.479
people associate diss shaped things with spaceships
now the term flying saucer. So when

781
01:09:42.479 --> 01:09:46.920
they first started using that term,
was it because they were describing things in

782
01:09:46.960 --> 01:09:55.960
the sky that looked like the flying
sack sausers. Well, if you look

783
01:09:56.000 --> 01:10:01.000
back to the origins of the sport
trap shooting, you find that in eighteen

784
01:10:01.039 --> 01:10:11.520
eighty two, this like it was
very similar to Adamski like flying saucer,

785
01:10:11.800 --> 01:10:16.840
was patented by a guy called George
Early Goelski, and it was an aerodynamic

786
01:10:16.960 --> 01:10:23.199
disc and it was just used for
the sport. But because people saw the

787
01:10:24.520 --> 01:10:31.079
constantly throughout those decades, when Kenneth
Arnold described his his object, the term

788
01:10:31.199 --> 01:10:36.279
just stuck with us and then it
sort of became more associated with spaceships than

789
01:10:36.319 --> 01:10:42.159
it had been with sport. But
it's interesting that you look back in ancient

790
01:10:42.199 --> 01:10:46.439
you know, in historical newspapers and
you can see the headlines like the gunners

791
01:10:46.439 --> 01:10:51.640
are blazing away at the flying saucers
or they're trying to not flying saucers out

792
01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:57.359
of the sky, and these come
from the nineteen twenties, nineteen thirties.

793
01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:06.880
In nineteen forty four, well,
there was a Headliner newspaper and it was

794
01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:14.520
flying sources and knocking axis airplanes out
of the sky. And the headline referred

795
01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:20.520
to referred to trap shooting and the
fact that trap shooting had been adopted as

796
01:11:20.560 --> 01:11:29.560
a sport by the United States Army
to train aerial gunners before sending them into

797
01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:34.800
battle. And this program was actually
headed by a man called General Arnold,

798
01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:43.319
General Henry h Arnold, and he
suggested firing flying saurces into the sky which

799
01:11:43.399 --> 01:11:46.840
people would try to shoot down,
you know, on a practice range.

800
01:11:47.039 --> 01:11:53.439
And it was only three years later
that Kenneth Arnold became associated with flying sources,

801
01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:59.319
and you know that new extension to
the expression flying saurcer was born.

802
01:12:00.680 --> 01:12:02.960
I want to ask you too,
before we're done, about another expression,

803
01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:09.119
which is little green men. And
I do this talk and I'm going to

804
01:12:09.159 --> 01:12:13.399
be doing this talk at the UFO
Congress. This year about these interesting cases,

805
01:12:13.479 --> 01:12:17.600
and I've been talking about how kind
of this case, the Hopkinsville,

806
01:12:17.680 --> 01:12:23.800
Kentucky kind of case, popularized that
term. But I guess what I hadn't

807
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:28.840
realized, and I thought I was
actually under the impression that that's kind of

808
01:12:28.880 --> 01:12:32.960
where the term got coined in reference
to extraterrestrials. But then somebody sent me

809
01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:39.760
a link to some research of yours
where that has also been around for a

810
01:12:39.800 --> 01:12:42.439
period of time. Yeah, that's
right. I mean, the term little

811
01:12:42.479 --> 01:12:47.359
green men definitely did originate with you
know, in the flying source period.

812
01:12:48.640 --> 01:12:54.640
It had been used before nineteen forty
seven in different ways. It seems that

813
01:12:55.119 --> 01:12:59.760
it originated as a part of fairy
mythology, you know, to describe goblins

814
01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:03.680
and elves and so on, because
they were often green skinned or dressed in

815
01:13:03.720 --> 01:13:11.760
green, so people referred to little
green men. The first time that little

816
01:13:11.800 --> 01:13:17.600
green man or little green men ever
heard in a story, you know,

817
01:13:17.600 --> 01:13:25.920
of a fictional account, would have
probably been in Washington Irving Nickerbocker's History of

818
01:13:25.960 --> 01:13:30.039
New York, which is from eighteen
oh nine, in which the men in

819
01:13:30.079 --> 01:13:36.560
the Moon have decided to invade Earth. The lunarians regard humans as like primitive

820
01:13:36.640 --> 01:13:45.640
animals with grotesque bodies and horrible white
skin as opposed to the p green complexions

821
01:13:45.680 --> 01:13:51.760
of the Moon people. So the
people from the Moon consider humans completely incapable

822
01:13:51.800 --> 01:13:59.920
of running the planet themselves. They
even say that humans infest like like parasites

823
01:14:00.079 --> 01:14:03.359
or rodents. So the Moon people
decide to send a group of little green

824
01:14:03.960 --> 01:14:11.680
lunarians to the Earth to colonize it
in the name of the Moon, you

825
01:14:11.720 --> 01:14:15.159
know, which is a little bit
like what we were talking about before.

826
01:14:15.239 --> 01:14:21.399
The idea that a race of extraterrestrials
might consider us too primitive to to really

827
01:14:21.600 --> 01:14:27.119
have a writer over our own planet
is a bit like us saying that our

828
01:14:27.119 --> 01:14:30.640
ancestors as were too stupid to have
come up with their own technology. So

829
01:14:30.800 --> 01:14:33.159
yeah, I mean, this is
the first time it ever appeared, I

830
01:14:33.199 --> 01:14:40.680
suppose in eight eighteen o nine.
But if you look in archives of nineteenth

831
01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:45.680
century newspapers, you find little green
men, or someone says, oh,

832
01:14:45.720 --> 01:14:51.159
he's always seeing little green men,
or he's always drunk and dreaming of little

833
01:14:51.199 --> 01:14:56.680
green men. Yeah, it was
a very common expression at one point,

834
01:14:57.119 --> 01:15:03.319
long before it was ever associated with
from other planets. Interesting, would it

835
01:15:03.359 --> 01:15:06.399
be accurate then, to say,
though that kind of the term guy kind

836
01:15:06.399 --> 01:15:14.399
of a resurgence, and when UFOs
began to get popular again. Yeah,

837
01:15:14.439 --> 01:15:21.199
of course, I mean there was
this massive resurgence of of all these different

838
01:15:21.479 --> 01:15:27.439
motifs little green men as aliens and
so on. I mean, you know,

839
01:15:27.640 --> 01:15:30.520
the work that I'm doing is to
find the historical roots of a lot

840
01:15:30.600 --> 01:15:36.319
of a lot of our UFO myths. For example, Roswell. I mean,

841
01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:44.159
it has so many parallels through throughout
the nineteenth century that it's amazing that

842
01:15:44.239 --> 01:15:48.520
people had forgotten them all when when
you know, flying sources erupted on the

843
01:15:48.560 --> 01:15:54.960
scene. There's just so much that
still has to come to light. I'm

844
01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:59.960
sure too, we're going to find
stories about spaceships full of little green men

845
01:16:00.439 --> 01:16:05.920
in some nineteenth century newspaper in the
end. So what sort of other topics

846
01:16:05.960 --> 01:16:14.159
do you tackle in your latest book? Right? Well, what we've done

847
01:16:14.279 --> 01:16:21.800
is to gather twenty or so cases
which Mark tin Shoff and I consider to

848
01:16:23.079 --> 01:16:28.119
be anomalous in some way. I
mean, a lot of people listening to

849
01:16:28.159 --> 01:16:32.960
me might think that I reject the
existence of UFOs as some kind of psychosocial

850
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:40.479
phenomenon, but we do realize that
there are some very impressive report, and

851
01:16:40.840 --> 01:16:43.680
in fact I saw one myself.
I saw a UFO myself in the year

852
01:16:43.720 --> 01:16:45.319
nineteen ninety six, and I've no
idea what it was. It was a

853
01:16:46.159 --> 01:16:54.000
luminous orange rectangle in the sky and
just over a village in Spain. So

854
01:16:54.520 --> 01:16:59.800
I realize that something happens, you
know, things do weird, things do

855
01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:02.399
happen in the sky. So what
we did in this book in Return to

856
01:17:02.439 --> 01:17:10.239
Magonia was to collect twenty historical cases, and we've analyzed them as much much

857
01:17:10.359 --> 01:17:17.000
as possible. What we've done is
to take the newspaper report or from a

858
01:17:17.000 --> 01:17:23.279
scientific journal, for example, the
seventeen year, seventeen fifty seven or eighteen

859
01:17:23.319 --> 01:17:27.520
thirty two, and we've extracted all
the names, so all the names of

860
01:17:27.520 --> 01:17:31.960
the witnesses, the places and so
on, calculated the day, the exact

861
01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:39.399
location of the sighting, and then
using genealogical records, we've been able to

862
01:17:39.520 --> 01:17:46.880
establish whether the witnesses existed, using
other sources of information to see if it

863
01:17:46.920 --> 01:17:51.640
really was raining on that day or
it really was sunny just as the witnesses

864
01:17:51.680 --> 01:17:59.720
described. I mean, all of
this information is available in archives and Internet

865
01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:06.279
just has opened a whole world of
knowledge to us. We can now determine

866
01:18:06.279 --> 01:18:15.199
whether historical cases were probably authentic or
not just by studying them using the resources

867
01:18:15.279 --> 01:18:19.039
that have become available in the last
few years. So we look at seventeenth

868
01:18:19.039 --> 01:18:26.000
century stories from the sixteen sixties,
for example in England, where three volume

869
01:18:27.560 --> 01:18:33.880
of very strange reports like as if
They'd come from Charles Fort's penn were published

870
01:18:33.920 --> 01:18:39.960
as a kind of religion just propaganda
at the time, or political propaganda.

871
01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:47.520
But using the resources that we have
a digital planetarium to calculate the positions of

872
01:18:47.560 --> 01:18:53.239
the stars, the sun, the
moon, we're able to show that people

873
01:18:53.279 --> 01:18:59.079
were reporting quite faithfully what they'd seen
in a lot of these cases. And

874
01:18:59.119 --> 01:19:04.319
then we just go through time until
around nineteen forty seven. So it's probably

875
01:19:04.359 --> 01:19:12.560
the first time anyone's ever like twenty
good historical cases together and done a very

876
01:19:12.600 --> 01:19:16.880
deep research into all of them,
getting all the details and establishing all the

877
01:19:16.920 --> 01:19:21.760
facts. And it sounds like then
some of them, even after your analysis,

878
01:19:21.920 --> 01:19:29.279
remain some mysterious exactly. I mean, this is it. Altogether.

879
01:19:29.359 --> 01:19:34.399
We probably did about forty different studies, and this book brings together twenty of

880
01:19:34.439 --> 01:19:40.640
them, and I'd say that all
of them have some kind of anomaly,

881
01:19:40.920 --> 01:19:45.119
some weird effect, something that we
couldn't explain. I think there's only one

882
01:19:46.399 --> 01:19:55.439
story there which we could find an
explanation for the rest of them really are

883
01:19:55.520 --> 01:19:59.920
quite strange. I mean, one
of my favorites actually is from the eighty

884
01:20:00.319 --> 01:20:03.920
seventy three and it happened in Ohio. I don't know why so many strange

885
01:20:03.960 --> 01:20:10.039
things happen in Ohio, but I
think Ohio is the state which has contributed

886
01:20:10.119 --> 01:20:15.079
more Fortier or UFO cases to the
Magonia Exchange Archive. You know, it's

887
01:20:15.600 --> 01:20:21.239
something happens there, something weird.
And do you know the case from eighteen

888
01:20:21.319 --> 01:20:26.720
seventy three that was reported just outside
Zainesville. Have you heard of this one

889
01:20:26.760 --> 01:20:30.760
before? No, it doesn't sound
familiar. I may have read about it,

890
01:20:30.760 --> 01:20:33.199
but it's not ringing a bell right
now. Well, I'll tell you

891
01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:38.720
about this. It's quite interesting.
I can read a part of it.

892
01:20:38.720 --> 01:20:43.159
It says one evening, about two
weeks ago, while missus Inman, who

893
01:20:43.199 --> 01:20:47.279
was a farmer, and his son
were returning to their home from Taylorsville,

894
01:20:47.399 --> 01:20:53.039
they saw a light which they describe
as looking like a burning brush pie well

895
01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:58.199
near the zenith, descending rapidly towards
the earth with a loud, loud,

896
01:20:58.479 --> 01:21:02.920
roaring noise the ground in the road
short or distance from them. The blazing

897
01:21:02.960 --> 01:21:09.640
object flickered and flared for a few
moments and then faded into darkness as a

898
01:21:09.680 --> 01:21:15.560
man dressed in a complete suit of
black and carrying a lantern emerged from it.

899
01:21:15.800 --> 01:21:20.000
The man walked a few paces and
stepped into a buggy which had not

900
01:21:20.039 --> 01:21:26.239
been observed before by either mister Inman
or his son. There was no horse

901
01:21:26.279 --> 01:21:30.640
attached to this supernatural vehicle, but
no sooner had the man taken his seat

902
01:21:31.399 --> 01:21:38.479
than it started to run noiselessly but
with great velocity along the highway, and

903
01:21:38.720 --> 01:21:44.119
it continued to do so until it
reached a steep gully into which it plunged,

904
01:21:44.199 --> 01:21:48.560
when buggy, man and lantern suddenly
disappeared as missteriously as they came.

905
01:21:49.520 --> 01:21:56.680
And this story is very exciting because
we're talking about a mysterious object that flies

906
01:21:56.760 --> 01:22:02.000
across the sky and it lands in
front of the witnesses. It opens up,

907
01:22:02.439 --> 01:22:06.720
an entity comes out carrying some kind
of torch or lantern, gets into

908
01:22:09.039 --> 01:22:13.159
what sounds like an automobile. In
eighteen seventy three, there were no automobile,

909
01:22:13.840 --> 01:22:16.840
you know, the concept practically didn't
exist yet, you know, he

910
01:22:18.359 --> 01:22:24.159
sped away in this in this vehicle. So this is the kind of story

911
01:22:24.199 --> 01:22:30.079
we're looking at in the book.
Fascinating. The book sounds very fascinating.

912
01:22:30.760 --> 01:22:34.760
I'm definitely going to get it as
soon as I can. I don't have

913
01:22:34.840 --> 01:22:40.000
it yet, but I mean,
I loved Wonders in the Sky and I

914
01:22:40.119 --> 01:22:44.319
really love this conversation. This was
a lot of fun. I'm glad we

915
01:22:44.319 --> 01:22:47.520
were able to finally get together to
do this. Thank you so much,

916
01:22:48.840 --> 01:22:55.000
thank you for having me. And
people can go to Chrisaarbeck dot com and

917
01:22:55.079 --> 01:22:59.680
we'll have the link of course on
the website. But just for those listening

918
01:22:59.720 --> 01:23:02.560
who are impatient, you can go
to C H R I, S A

919
01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:09.680
U B E c K dot com
and you can also find Return to Magonia,

920
01:23:10.640 --> 01:23:15.199
Wonder and Wonders in the Sky at
Amazon. That's right. Yeah,

921
01:23:15.359 --> 01:23:20.159
And hopefully this year I'll be releasing
another book, and I'm working on a

922
01:23:20.199 --> 01:23:26.840
thesis at at the moment, it's
going to be the complete history of extraterrestrial

923
01:23:26.920 --> 01:23:33.119
visitation and objects and spaceships that have
crashed on the Earth allegedly who knows,

924
01:23:33.199 --> 01:23:38.920
or maybe they really really happened from
eighteen forty seven to nineteen four forty seven,

925
01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:43.520
and that's going to be the most
complete study of its kind. Well,

926
01:23:43.520 --> 01:23:46.000
that's fascinating. It's great because you
know, people are always talking about

927
01:23:46.000 --> 01:23:51.000
wanting to because a lot of people
rehash old stories. But this is all

928
01:23:51.199 --> 01:23:56.039
stuff that people don't know about,
even though they are very old stories,

929
01:23:56.399 --> 01:23:59.760
older than many of them that people
are talking about. But these are things

930
01:23:59.800 --> 01:24:03.760
that people you know, they're retrieved
from the archives, we think stories people

931
01:24:04.199 --> 01:24:09.680
in modern times don't know about.
Yeah, that's right, I mean,

932
01:24:10.640 --> 01:24:14.840
honestly, it's amazing that it begins
in eighteen forty seven with the fall of

933
01:24:14.880 --> 01:24:19.279
this artificial object from the sky.
It caused a crater and so on.

934
01:24:19.680 --> 01:24:28.079
Then just a few years late,
again allegedly a piece of masonry apparently fell

935
01:24:28.119 --> 01:24:34.199
from the sky into Jamaica and it
was covered in like hieroglyphics and figures and

936
01:24:34.239 --> 01:24:40.239
things. And even then in eighteen
sixty two, people said, well,

937
01:24:40.319 --> 01:24:44.520
this must have come from another planet. And then you know, throughout the

938
01:24:44.520 --> 01:24:51.159
eighteen sixties eighteen seventies, meteorites with
writing on the outside or with objects inside

939
01:24:51.279 --> 01:24:59.880
like a book or a device,
a mummified alien and stories of this kind

940
01:25:00.119 --> 01:25:03.920
abounded throughout the throughout the nineteenth century, so finally I'm bringing them all together

941
01:25:04.039 --> 01:25:12.479
and showing how how the idea of
crushed spaceships really originated one hundred years before

942
01:25:12.720 --> 01:25:15.479
any of us suspected. Wow,
they sound like a bunch of doctor whose

943
01:25:15.520 --> 01:25:21.640
stories, and I love doctor it
could be maybe I should sell them.

944
01:25:23.079 --> 01:25:26.760
Yeah, maybe they're great. Well, thank you so much for coming on

945
01:25:27.079 --> 01:25:31.640
and and hopefully we'll have you on
again sometime in the future. Okay,

946
01:25:31.760 --> 01:25:36.560
thank you very much. Then that
was a lot of fun. So I

947
01:25:36.720 --> 01:25:43.239
love the historical and the sociological aspect
of this phenomena. In fact, I

948
01:25:43.359 --> 01:25:48.039
find that perhaps the most interesting,
because I kind of have this feeling that,

949
01:25:48.239 --> 01:25:51.880
you know, if there's going to
be any sort of open contact or

950
01:25:51.920 --> 01:25:57.279
disclosure or whatever, it's not up
to us, it's up to If there's

951
01:25:57.279 --> 01:26:00.479
a third party coming here, it's
up to them. So we're kind of

952
01:26:00.479 --> 01:26:05.840
spinning our wheels with anything else.
I feel. I just don't think and

953
01:26:05.920 --> 01:26:11.319
even if if the government does have
some group that is looking into this,

954
01:26:11.479 --> 01:26:15.880
I don't think they have a whole
lot of answers, much more than we

955
01:26:15.960 --> 01:26:21.159
all have, because you know,
we seem to forget that we're dealing with

956
01:26:21.199 --> 01:26:28.479
a much more advanced civilization most likely. You know, of course, if

957
01:26:28.520 --> 01:26:31.000
there is a visitation like that going
on, or if more along the lines

958
01:26:31.319 --> 01:26:35.039
of what Jacques Vallet talks about,
it's something that we can't even conceive.

959
01:26:35.399 --> 01:26:39.520
Even if you look at the Skinwalker
Ranch. You know, we've interviewed,

960
01:26:39.520 --> 01:26:44.920
We've got one of our top interviews
online is actually John Alexander, you know,

961
01:26:45.000 --> 01:26:50.319
retired colonel worked in Army intelligence,
investigated Skinwalker Ranch with the Bigelow Group,

962
01:26:50.720 --> 01:26:55.840
talking about how and I've talked to
other scientists with the Bigelow Group and

963
01:26:55.880 --> 01:27:01.199
they feel the same way that the
intelligence, which they felt it was,

964
01:27:01.279 --> 01:27:06.239
this unknown intelligence, was way smarter
than they were. It outsmarted them,

965
01:27:06.800 --> 01:27:12.720
and they really could not, you
know, make heads or tails of things

966
01:27:12.800 --> 01:27:19.359
except for that there was some strange
phenomena and some strange intelligence that was messing

967
01:27:19.479 --> 01:27:25.880
with them, that had abilities beyond
theirs. So they really felt there was

968
01:27:25.920 --> 01:27:29.560
something going on. They just didn't
know what it was or who it was,

969
01:27:30.199 --> 01:27:33.640
and it was just too smart for
them. So that being the case,

970
01:27:35.199 --> 01:27:39.600
you know, we're kind of chasing
our tails, or at least sitting

971
01:27:39.600 --> 01:27:45.880
on the sidelines here watching and learning
and you know, keeping an eye to

972
01:27:45.880 --> 01:27:53.159
see if something happened. But what
we do know is there is a phenomena.

973
01:27:53.640 --> 01:28:00.199
Whether that phenomena be purely psychological,
it's certainly sociological in that there are

974
01:28:00.399 --> 01:28:09.159
hundreds and hundreds of thousands, perhaps
millions, of people that believe that we're

975
01:28:09.199 --> 01:28:17.560
being visited or they believe they have
had an experience with extraterrestrials or any other

976
01:28:17.680 --> 01:28:23.920
paranormal kind of experience. And so
because there's all of these people having these

977
01:28:24.000 --> 01:28:30.520
experiences or believing they've had these experiences, and just you know, even if

978
01:28:30.520 --> 01:28:34.199
these experiences are not a physical experience
or even a there is no third party

979
01:28:34.239 --> 01:28:39.319
involved, it is an experience,
and so it deserves to be studied.

980
01:28:39.600 --> 01:28:42.920
I don't know that I agree with
Chris that I don't think that, you

981
01:28:42.960 --> 01:28:50.039
know, a handful of studies is
necessarily sufficient. I think that there would

982
01:28:50.079 --> 01:28:56.239
be more studies if this topic was
taken more seriously, because I think there

983
01:28:56.279 --> 01:29:00.399
needs to be more studies. I
think that abduction phenomenon needs to be much

984
01:29:00.520 --> 01:29:04.640
more closely examined. That's why I
don't shy away from covering it, even

985
01:29:04.640 --> 01:29:08.279
though a lot of people think,
you know, you're gonna hurt your credibility

986
01:29:08.319 --> 01:29:13.640
talking about alien abduction. But you
know what, there are some extraordinary cases

987
01:29:13.640 --> 01:29:18.199
like Travis Waltons or of course like
the Allygash guys. But beyond that,

988
01:29:18.479 --> 01:29:24.279
even if those cases didn't exist,
why do people feel like they're having these

989
01:29:24.359 --> 01:29:31.359
experiences? Why are these experiences so
similar? Are they an effect from the

990
01:29:31.479 --> 01:29:36.439
media. If that's the case,
why do people want to have these experiences?

991
01:29:36.479 --> 01:29:43.279
Why does a mind create these experiences
and have these media influence experiences?

992
01:29:43.319 --> 01:29:46.560
Although especially with my talk that I'm
going to do at the conference about strange

993
01:29:46.560 --> 01:29:50.239
alien cases, these are some cases
and just like Chris is talking about,

994
01:29:50.760 --> 01:29:59.560
these are some cases that predate the
media imagery. So that would you lead

995
01:29:59.640 --> 01:30:05.159
one to believe that it's not just
the mind, you know, reproducing something

996
01:30:05.159 --> 01:30:11.279
that they've seen on television, that
it would be some sort of separate phenomena.

997
01:30:11.439 --> 01:30:14.960
So, you know, these are
all outstanding questions, are all interesting

998
01:30:15.039 --> 01:30:18.279
questions, and you know, beyond
like the couple of people that we're going

999
01:30:18.319 --> 01:30:26.000
to have at the conference, like
the actual therapists that are trained therapists that

1000
01:30:26.079 --> 01:30:29.239
are working on this, which is
just a very small handful, you know,

1001
01:30:29.279 --> 01:30:34.640
there should be a lot more therapists
and studying this phenomena to figure out

1002
01:30:34.680 --> 01:30:39.960
also how to help these people because
many people you know Avon Smith, she's

1003
01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:44.079
a PTSD therapist, and she says, these people, do you know,

1004
01:30:45.159 --> 01:30:53.800
have similar effects to PTSD or perhaps
PTSD from their experiences, meaning that they

1005
01:30:53.840 --> 01:31:00.039
believe they've experienced a traumatic event or
traumatic experience. And I have a degree

1006
01:31:00.079 --> 01:31:06.119
in psychology, and I know people
can experience PTSD without even having to have

1007
01:31:06.479 --> 01:31:15.199
had a real experience. Even someone
else's experience can cause trauma in someone's psyche.

1008
01:31:15.439 --> 01:31:19.600
So it's all really important stuff to
look at. And uh, and

1009
01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:24.039
and that's why I think the sociological
aspect not only that, you know,

1010
01:31:24.119 --> 01:31:28.119
I do talk about ETAs and religion, So it's an effect on religion,

1011
01:31:28.920 --> 01:31:32.199
its effect on society. Uh,
you know, the belief in aliens and

1012
01:31:32.239 --> 01:31:36.880
its effect on technology. Uh.
Even sci fi of course has had a

1013
01:31:36.960 --> 01:31:43.279
huge influence on science. People talk
about that all the time. Scientists talk

1014
01:31:43.279 --> 01:31:46.560
about that all the time. So
I love the sociological aspect. So I

1015
01:31:46.560 --> 01:31:53.159
think that's what's wonderful about what Jacques
Vallet does and about what Chris does.

1016
01:31:53.600 --> 01:31:59.399
So this is really fascinating. If
you haven't read Wonders in the Sky,

1017
01:32:00.199 --> 01:32:04.119
definitely get that book. Of course, we had Jacques on the show when

1018
01:32:04.159 --> 01:32:08.600
the book came out, but definitely
get that book. It's a really great

1019
01:32:08.640 --> 01:32:14.000
book. And I am Chris has
got me super excited about return to Magonia.

1020
01:32:14.359 --> 01:32:17.119
I mean, this is right down
my alley and Jacques Valet did write

1021
01:32:17.159 --> 01:32:20.279
the forward for this book, and
Jacques has told me, you know a

1022
01:32:20.319 --> 01:32:24.560
couple of times, you really need
to interview Chris, you really need to

1023
01:32:24.560 --> 01:32:29.119
interview Chris. So I'm so excited
to have interviewed Chris. And as you

1024
01:32:29.159 --> 01:32:31.880
can tell with me going on and
on about all of this, I'm really

1025
01:32:31.880 --> 01:32:35.840
excited about the topic and what Chris
had to say so really fun. So

1026
01:32:35.920 --> 01:32:41.560
you know what else I'm excited about. I'm excited about meeting Jacques Valet.

1027
01:32:41.640 --> 01:32:45.359
So how cool is that? So
that's going to be coming up here next

1028
01:32:45.399 --> 01:32:47.640
week, like Martin and I were
talking about, So we won't have a

1029
01:32:47.680 --> 01:32:51.399
show for another couple of weeks.
So I apologize for that ahead of time

1030
01:32:51.760 --> 01:32:55.439
because I'm gonna be busy with the
conference. Not only are we going to

1031
01:32:55.479 --> 01:32:58.359
be a week from now, we're
going to be loading up the truck and

1032
01:32:58.439 --> 01:33:01.279
hauling it out there and setting up
the conference. We'll be running the conference

1033
01:33:01.319 --> 01:33:06.800
all week, and by this time
in two weeks from now, I'm gonna

1034
01:33:06.800 --> 01:33:11.560
have to take the day off and
I'm gonna sleep most of the day because

1035
01:33:12.560 --> 01:33:15.239
you know, we go all the
way up until Sunday night, we pack

1036
01:33:15.279 --> 01:33:19.359
up the truck and take everything down. So after five days of six days

1037
01:33:19.399 --> 01:33:26.319
of this long show, we're not
done. We have to take everything down

1038
01:33:26.359 --> 01:33:29.880
and load it up and head out
of town as soon as possible. So

1039
01:33:30.000 --> 01:33:32.760
we're not headed out of We're just
headed from one side of town to the

1040
01:33:32.800 --> 01:33:36.800
other. But still it's a lot
of work. So unfortunately, I won't

1041
01:33:36.800 --> 01:33:42.640
have a show next week or the
week after. I'm not even gonna pretend

1042
01:33:42.640 --> 01:33:45.159
like I might be able to pull
it off, because I won't. But

1043
01:33:45.760 --> 01:33:48.000
three weeks from now, we'll have
a show, and we'll be back and

1044
01:33:48.039 --> 01:33:51.760
we'll talk about the conference. Hopefully
some of you will be able to come

1045
01:33:51.880 --> 01:33:58.439
out to the conference, because that
will be extraordinary. I've already heard from

1046
01:33:58.479 --> 01:34:00.359
a few of you, and I
know you'll be there. So I know

1047
01:34:00.439 --> 01:34:04.520
I'm really busy, but do try
to say hi. I really do love

1048
01:34:04.560 --> 01:34:06.920
it even if I'm busy and I'm
like hey, thanks, you know,

1049
01:34:08.000 --> 01:34:11.039
and I shake your hand or whatever. I mean, I really really do

1050
01:34:11.119 --> 01:34:14.640
appreciate it when you do come say
hi. I'm just so happy that there

1051
01:34:14.680 --> 01:34:17.279
are so many listeners to the show
and so many of you do enjoy the

1052
01:34:17.319 --> 01:34:21.439
show. And even if you bug
me about hey, word's another show show,

1053
01:34:21.680 --> 01:34:26.000
you know what, I love that
because it just means that you're really

1054
01:34:26.119 --> 01:34:30.960
enjoying what we're providing for you all. And we love providing this, We

1055
01:34:30.039 --> 01:34:35.800
love providing the conference, and we
love providing UFO the Open Mind GUFO Report.

1056
01:34:35.880 --> 01:34:39.960
So and we do have a new
one out, so go to YouTube

1057
01:34:40.399 --> 01:34:45.239
or to Openminds dot tv and you'll
see a new UFO reports. We talked

1058
01:34:45.239 --> 01:34:51.640
about the CIA documents a video citing
report from Roger Marsh and then also John

1059
01:34:51.720 --> 01:34:57.399
Greenwald who's speaking at the conference.
Because of as we talked about, you

1060
01:34:57.439 --> 01:34:59.840
know, I think on the last
show, you know, these at the

1061
01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:04.079
these files that the government has supposedly
lost. In fact, I'm gonna put

1062
01:35:04.079 --> 01:35:09.640
that story up on the Huffington Post
here soon. You know, the government

1063
01:35:09.680 --> 01:35:14.720
claiming they lost more UFO files.
What is up with that? And kudos

1064
01:35:14.720 --> 01:35:18.279
to John Greenwald for getting the government
to talk about this and admit they've lost

1065
01:35:18.279 --> 01:35:24.600
these files or claim that they've lost
these files. Right, what's going on

1066
01:35:24.760 --> 01:35:29.840
people, so really exciting stuff,
So go check out the UFO report.

1067
01:35:29.960 --> 01:35:33.159
Otherwise, you can also get updates
in your email. Now. The last

1068
01:35:33.239 --> 01:35:38.560
few weeks we've sent out weekly emails
because of the conference and updating everybody on

1069
01:35:38.600 --> 01:35:42.600
what's going to be going on there, but also updating you on website stuff

1070
01:35:42.920 --> 01:35:45.920
and on when we have a new
Open Mind GUFO report. Otherwise, we

1071
01:35:46.000 --> 01:35:49.920
only send out the emails on a
bi weekly basis, so just every other

1072
01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:54.800
week. So go to open mindsat
TV and the upper right you'll see where

1073
01:35:54.840 --> 01:35:59.960
you can register put your email address
in there to receive the update. Also,

1074
01:36:00.000 --> 01:36:02.680
so if you go to ufocongress dot
com, you'll see there's a big

1075
01:36:02.760 --> 01:36:05.720
section there, big blue section,
dark blue where you can put in your

1076
01:36:05.720 --> 01:36:10.600
email. It says stay up to
date in this little red box and says,

1077
01:36:10.600 --> 01:36:13.159
you know, put in your email
there so you can get on our

1078
01:36:13.159 --> 01:36:15.880
email list, so you can stay
up to date on everything that's going on

1079
01:36:15.439 --> 01:36:18.760
and all of our cool stories and
everything. And it's a good way.

1080
01:36:18.960 --> 01:36:23.680
Just so you know, I know, you guys get busy. At least

1081
01:36:23.680 --> 01:36:26.359
once in a while you'll get a
reminder that, hey, there's a couple

1082
01:36:26.359 --> 01:36:28.840
of radio shows you got to catch
up on, or you know, here's

1083
01:36:28.880 --> 01:36:32.640
the latest ufour report, or some
cool stories that we've posted, or maybe

1084
01:36:32.680 --> 01:36:36.800
some interviews that we've gotten that are
rare or hard to get her stuff like

1085
01:36:36.840 --> 01:36:42.319
that. So yeah, so definitely
keep up to date by getting on the

1086
01:36:42.359 --> 01:36:46.359
email list. Otherwise, everything that
we talked with Martin Willis about you can

1087
01:36:46.399 --> 01:36:53.359
find at openminds dot tv. Of
course, Martin Willis does podcast UFO,

1088
01:36:53.479 --> 01:36:57.920
So thank Martin for joining us and
check out his podcast. You'll also be

1089
01:36:58.000 --> 01:37:01.560
able to meet him at the uf
Congress. So he's a lot of fun

1090
01:37:01.600 --> 01:37:06.680
to me. He's just he's just
a really nice guy. He's he's a

1091
01:37:06.680 --> 01:37:12.199
good guy. I'm so happy that
he's joining us with the show these days.

1092
01:37:12.720 --> 01:37:15.279
But yeah, open mindset TV you're
gonna find all of this information.

1093
01:37:15.439 --> 01:37:19.039
If you want more about the UFO
Congress, check out Ufocongress dot com.

1094
01:37:19.359 --> 01:37:23.640
Keep an eye on the news.
We're gonna have Fox News, We're gonna

1095
01:37:23.680 --> 01:37:28.399
have MSN, We're gonna have MSN's
gonna have a story up real soon here.

1096
01:37:28.640 --> 01:37:32.039
So we're gonna have a lot of
national press covering the event, and

1097
01:37:32.079 --> 01:37:34.760
of course, if you're in the
Arizona area, we always have a ton

1098
01:37:35.239 --> 01:37:39.840
of local news covering the event.
So keep your eye open or keep an

1099
01:37:39.880 --> 01:37:42.680
eye open on our Facebook and stuff, because we'll be posting this stuff.

1100
01:37:42.720 --> 01:37:45.239
And yeah, we're gonna get I
think, quite a bit of national media

1101
01:37:45.279 --> 01:37:50.000
attention, so I'm really excited about
that. Usually they cover the topic or

1102
01:37:50.039 --> 01:37:54.880
the conference in a very positive light, so hopefully they'll be doing that again

1103
01:37:54.960 --> 01:37:58.079
this year. Although sometimes you get
a couple in there that just want to

1104
01:37:58.159 --> 01:38:01.800
kind of make fun and what can
you do? That's our world today,

1105
01:38:01.960 --> 01:38:05.199
So we try our best to avoid
that by giving them good data. And

1106
01:38:05.239 --> 01:38:09.720
that's the best thing you can do, is just give them good information,

1107
01:38:11.319 --> 01:38:18.239
stuff that is strong and compelling and
credible, and they love that stuff.

1108
01:38:18.319 --> 01:38:23.199
So the media really does want to
cover good stuff, if you got it,

1109
01:38:23.479 --> 01:38:26.079
But some of them do want to
cover the silly stuff. And if

1110
01:38:26.079 --> 01:38:29.079
you don't give them good stuff,
they'll cover the silly. What else are

1111
01:38:29.119 --> 01:38:33.159
they going to do? They need
a story anyway. Thank you so much

1112
01:38:33.239 --> 01:38:39.119
for joining us again. Thank you
to Caleb Hanks once again for the excellent

1113
01:38:39.239 --> 01:38:42.520
Open and Closed music. There's been
a couple of people to ask, what

1114
01:38:42.720 --> 01:38:45.159
is that open and closed music?
That is Caleb Hanks And if you go

1115
01:38:45.239 --> 01:38:51.039
to the Open Minds Radio website you'll
see a link for him. The clerk

1116
01:38:51.119 --> 01:38:57.399
Chronicles is the website that he has
where he hosts his music and he puts

1117
01:38:57.399 --> 01:39:00.159
his music up for free. It
is awesome music. I agree with you

1118
01:39:00.199 --> 01:39:06.159
people who have been asking. I
love Caleb's music. And Caleb Michah Hanks

1119
01:39:06.239 --> 01:39:12.319
runs the Gralem Report. He's great, he does a great show. And

1120
01:39:12.760 --> 01:39:18.159
Caleb is his brother. They're both
very talented musicians. And yeah, Caleb

1121
01:39:18.199 --> 01:39:21.800
Hanks has got great and they're both
hilarious. They are a lot of fun.

1122
01:39:21.840 --> 01:39:26.560
They're really cool guys. But anyway, yeah, check out Caleb Hank's

1123
01:39:26.640 --> 01:39:30.239
music. Otherwise, thank you all
so much for joining us. We'll talk

1124
01:39:30.279 --> 01:40:27.119
to you in a couple of weeks. Adiosmudatos your emotionless sound. The Glass