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Hey, Hi, come on here
and have a seat if you're doing okay

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today, Hey, we're we're covering
Mexico this week. We're gonna speak on

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the Omec, which is a civilization
I'm fascinated in learning more about. We

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don't know a great deal about the
Omec. We know more about dynastic Egyptian

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civilizations and sumer and Babylonians. Then
even the Dogon people of Africa. We

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know more about them than we know
about the Omec. And I had a

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chance to visit in our last two
this past November in Tabasco, Mexico.

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We flew in and did a tour
with doctor Ed Barnhardt. And Ed is

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a Miyais, but as a Miamis, he has a huge interest in the

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Omic civilization. And I've always been
curious because as an artist, I've studied

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the sculptures, not only the big
basalt heads that everyone's familiar with. But

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my big question is and has been, it really looks like the Olmec.

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We're a multi racial civilization and what
does that mean? Well, racial types.

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We have this African American African centric
sculptural appearance, facial structure on these

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gigantic twenty ton basalt carvings, most
of them, if not all of them,

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have headgear or helmets on. And
then there's also an Aga or Asian

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look and description that you can see
on a lot of the statuary, the

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figurines, and even on the pottery. And then we get into this other

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segment of racial types, which can
only be considered Caucasian or European or Eurocentric.

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And in many cases a lot of
these figures have beards and mustaches,

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and they look like somebody you would
see in the United States, a white

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boy with a beard and a mustache. And you know, I have studied

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this, and I have questions.
And there's a number of turn of the

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century scientists, anthropologists, I guess
you could even call them early archaeologists who

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are puzzled by this. And a
number of books came out, most notably

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by a guy named Alexander van weather
No or he was known as Professor weather

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No who came to Mexico in the
early nineteen hundreds and began studying and teaching

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there in Mexico and came out with
two books, and the most well known

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of his books is called Unexpected Faces
in Ancient America fifteen hundred BC to fifteen

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hundred AD, and he began going
and collecting artifacts and checking out museums,

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and in his book he highlights these
racial types and wonders where they came from.

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In fact, the sculptures that you
see in his book are identical to

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sculptures you see and racial types you
see in Africa, in Europe and China,

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in Japan and so forth and so
on. And you know we're gonna

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hear from Ed today on his take
on it, but I'll tell you right

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off, they just don't go for
the diffusion. They don't go for a

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traditional archaeologists, university archaeologists believe that
this is the typical racial type. The

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Native Mexicans are are of this,
they have these features. So I don't

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know what to do on that one. I tend to disagree simply because and

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of course I'm not an expert.
It's just my point of view. When

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I was first going to when I
was first going to Mexico, and I

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was in the Yucatan Peninsula because it's
so close to northern California, I remember

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in a museum in Cankun, it's
the can Kun Historical Museum, History museum.

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They had a number of figurines wearing
kimonos, and that is that direct

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lineage to Japan. And we don't
see those sculptures because in America those are

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edited out of the narrative. But
in Mexico, and this is why I

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urge you to either join Earth Ancients
tours because we go to these museums,

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or when you're visiting Mexico, locate
these museums and look at the figures,

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look at the pottery, look at
the sculpture because it's not edited. They

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haven't taken artifacts out of the museum
that are questionable that lead us to wonder,

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wait a minute, this is something's
going on here. So you know,

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as much as I appreciate the archaeological
perspective because they're giving us some groundwork,

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I think they need to look at
the details of these racial types a

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little closer, and specifically the OMEC, because they were really capturing these racial

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types in their sculptures and their statuary, even in their altars. Their altars

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are wonderful and I'll be posting a
group of altars on the Earth Ancients Facebook

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page a few days after this is
this air. So I want to play

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a short clip from an interview Graham
Hancock did on the on the strange civilization

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known as the Omech. I have
a quick listen. It's considered to be

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the earliest high culture of Central America. Everybody's heard about the Aztecs, everybody's

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heard about the Maya. But before
the Aztecs and before the Maya, there

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were a culture who are referred to
as the Olmechs. Again, we don't

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know what they called themselves. That's
what the Aztecs called them. They called

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them the Olmecs, and it means
the rubber people because they that rubber producing

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area of Mexico. They worked in
giant megalithic constructions. That what they're most

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famous for is these huge carved human
heads which can be honest scale of up

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to twenty to twenty five tons in
weight and which have curious features which have

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been interpreted variously as Polynesian African don't
look like classic Native American features. But

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one of the things, one of
the things I've realized is that there is

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no classic Native American feature. That
Native Americans are have a very complex genetic

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story with very many different elements brought
into it, and we shouldn't be necessarily

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surprised by the supposedly non native American
look stonework. There's another fascinating figure from

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Laventa, one of the Omech sites, which is the earliest ever image of

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a plumed or feathered serpent. The
feathered serpent is a famous icon in Central

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America, Quetzalcoatl, who's the god
of peace, the bringer of civilization.

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Now, if you don't have Gram's
first book, Fingerprints of the Gods,

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if you're new to Earth, the
Ageans, if you're new to the different

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perspectives on our history or the alternative
or the anomalies of ancient Earth, that

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first book, Fingerprints of the Gods, is one for your library. It's

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huge, it's over I think it's
about five hundred pages. But it gives

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you a hint of what was of
interest to Graham over twenty years ago.

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And I remember here in northern California
when he came to Berkeley, when it

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was a little bookstore. He came
and did a talk. It was wonderful,

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it was refreshing because a lot of
us have questions about our history.

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We don't believe the narrative or the
narratives incomplete. That's the bigger problem.

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And in my writing in this new
book to my controversy, I have a

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chat on what we see, how
we interpret things. And my belief is

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if you are going to school,
if you are forced to read one hundred,

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one hundred and fifty year old books
as the foundations of an anthropologist,

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you are getting trained to see things
in a particular manner, and it's very,

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very hard to see that outside of
the box unless you're an independent Now.

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I do appreciate Ed Barnhardt and other
archaeologists who are on our program because

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for the most part, not all, they don't have to follow an academic

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perspective. They can have the training, they can get their credential, and

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then they can go out and independently
do research, do work. There's a

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lot of very well known archaeologists who
are not affiliated with any college or school

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or institution who are making some significant
discoveries. One of these is doctor Paulette

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Steves, who's a Canadian archaeologist who's
redating settlements in the United States North America

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to tens of thousands of years much
earlier. It's opening up a whole new

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field of study, and this is
what we need. So today's program is

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the Mystery of the Omic and my
guest is doctor Edwin Barnhardt. We do

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a lot of different tours each year, and each of them is designed for

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a different experience. But one of
my favorite tours and one that we haven't

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done in a few years, is
the Sacred Temples of Mexico. This is

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going to be held November eighth to
the seventeenth. It is an opportunity not

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only to experience some of the oldest
Mayan ruins in the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico,

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but also we have special permission not
only to walk through these sacred temples,

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but also climb pyramids. And there's
a number of unique locations where we

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can do this. One is Mayapan
ushmo Ekbalam, and there's a few others

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that will add to the itinerary.
To learn more about this tour, go

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to Earthancients dot com forward slash Tours
you'll get all the information. Again,

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it's November eighth through the seventeenth,
one week of an amazing experience and very

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very special. I hope you'll join
me. I was fortunate to be with

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doctor ed Barnhard this past November to
visit Tabasco, Mexico. This is the

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home of the Omec a place called
Levanta, And not only was I pleasantly

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surprised by the sculptures, which are
fabulous, but there are a lot of

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artifacts or a lot of other things
regarding this very odd culture that came to

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light during that tour. And I've
invited Ed back to talk a little bit

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about the Olmec. Of course,
Ed is the classic Mayanist, and I

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always love this term Mayanists. What
does that mean? Well, not only

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is the miserable American focus, but
under the tuolage of Linda Sheeley, he's

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z rode in on these unusual cultures. So Ed, we're gonna twist in

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the screws a little bit today and
get you to spill it on the on

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the Olemec. So I hope you
don't mind too much. Ready, ready

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and willing. There's a lot to
talk about. There's a lot we don't

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know about the Olemech. They appear
and I just looked at this around seventeen

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hundred BC, and that's the very
remote rudimentary discoveries, right is that?

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What do we know about that early
date? It is interesting when you look

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at just you know, textbooks or
Google. That's I mean, that's absolutely

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right. I'd say, you know, probably eighteen hundred, but it's a

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question of scale, like how much
Olmec stuff so at that date, really

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what what's indicating that date is a
much smaller community that's found at the bottom

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levels of what become larger Olmec communities. So we've got San Lorenzo that has

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definitely you know, eighteen hundred BCE
is probably the start. And then very

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nearby that we have a fascinating place
called Elmanate. And Elmanate was kind of

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a bog so everything preserved there.
There are stone there are wooden statues,

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and there are skeletons, which is
very rare in the Olmec world, but

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those all date from the earliest of
those date to seventeen hundred or so,

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So we definitely have an Olemec presence. If not for Elmanate, we some

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people, most conservative folks, would
say like, well, are we sure

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they're Olmec or not, But Elmanate
has preserved wooden statues that are clearly Olmec.

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So they have the Olmec's style of
carving as that you're suggesting Omec style,

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and the people they Olmec tend to
show males as bald with kind of

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elongated, like uh, deformed heads, and that's exactly the statues from there

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are that weird. Hey, you
know you just said something that I have

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not heard in this one of my
questions, which is, have we found

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an Olemechs skeleton of a king,
of a queen, of a ruler or

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someone noted like we find in some
of these Maya toombs, We actually have,

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you know, I thought, and
I was under the perception that we

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had very few Olemechs skeletons. But
I'm right now working on a lecture series

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for the on the Olmec for a
company. That's another thing. But I've

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really done a deep dive into not
just you know, the coffee table books,

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but the reports from these sites.
Yeah, and I am both excited

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and frustrated by how many Olemechs skeletons
there actually are. Whoa and uh not

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analyzed. I mean I just took
a trip through the area and there are

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places they're on display, they're not
hidden away, but the reports talk about

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where they're from. There are like
in that sight Almanite, I was just

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talking about, there's something like a
dozen baby skeletons. They thought at first

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that they were monkey skeletons, but
no, they're they're human babies, and

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that all these big sites Leventa,
Uh, there are definitely burials, but

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some of those the bones have been
dissolved from the acidic soils, but not

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all of them. There are a
couple of bundles that have there. There

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was one in complex A in Leventa
that had two bundled individuals good enough where

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they could say that they were adult
males. So there actually are a lot

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of skeletons, and I want people
to analyze those with some of our modern

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techniques. Yeah. I was curious
when you said that, because in a

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lot of their sculptures they portray there
are people with these elongated heads and very

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asiatic features, and I would love
to see the cranium of an adult male

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or female to see if that's something
that is typical for their culture. Of

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the things that I've seen so far, I didn't see any skulls that were

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elongated like that. There's one on
display at the museum in Trecepote's, but

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it had a normal head. I'm
pretty sure I've got the pictures of it.

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So not everybody in ol Mech society
had that elongated head. In fact,

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the famous colossal heads that are you
know, signature Olemech stuff. If

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you look at those, maybe one
of them from Leventa looks like he has

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an elongated head, but the rest
of them are very round and normal.

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So those that we presume are kings, they didn't have elongated heads. It

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may well be that that was a
practice restricted to the priestly class I mean

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headbinding to yeah, yeah, okay. The Omech, to my mind and

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you as who have probably obviously have
studied it a lot more, seem to

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me one of these very strange cultures
that appear almost complete. In other words,

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they have a mathematic, a clindrical
system, perhaps, a science,

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science, and medicine that all appear
fairly well established. Now, if I

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talk to Richard Hanson and Elmador and
I say that to him, he'll take

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me way back to some diggings and
say, well, yes and no.

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But at the same situation with the
Olmec that, I mean, how do

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you see them as an emerging people? Well, I do think that there's

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an evolution, and I think that
it's a very very common misconception that the

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books on the internet give us that
they showed up with that whole package as

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you just described. But actually we
have an Olmec period which goes basically from

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eighteen hundred to four hundred BC,
and in that period there is no writing,

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there is no calendar. There is
excellent art, and you can see

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the evolution of architecture getting bigger and
bigger, but the art or the writing

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and the calendar really don't start until
about four hundred BC, and by then

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archaeologists call them a different culture,
we call them epi Olmec. I think

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they're putting hairs there. I think
they're still fully omech people that just all

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of a sudden learned writing and calendar. But even that, we see kind

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of an interplay between the Maya region
and the Zapatec region and the Olmec region,

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where they're all kind of playing around
with more more complex iconography and symbolism,

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and that seems to coalesce into the
writing system and the calendar. I'm

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not sure how long it was around, but you know, once you start

202
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carving it in stone, you've been
thinking about it for a while. Yeah,

203
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But do we see the astronomy in
the same manner that we see the

204
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emergence of astronomy in Maya culture.
In other words, there's no observatories that

205
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we know of in anything in Omec
world, is there not that we can

206
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detect. The trouble is that the
Omec, for whatever reasons, built all

207
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of their buildings out of packed earth, and that is weathered terribly. So

208
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you know, a lot of the
buildings that were up on top of these

209
00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:55.559
massive platforms they built have have eroded, or another weird thing about them is

210
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that they've been buried. The stuff
at San Lorenzo is ridiculously deep. It's

211
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meters deep up over the current platform, so it got you know what,

212
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the Olmec must have buried that.
So in the process they probably destroyed a

213
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lot of the buildings that were there. So we have, like we have

214
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a big palace at the top of
San Lorenzo, but it's actually also five

215
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:27.400
meters down or so, so that
preserved, but we don't have a lot

216
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of Olemec buildings to go on.
That's another question that's very odd to me

217
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because I've seen and I think Sterling, who was one of the guys that

218
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was digging up the heads and digging
into some of their cities, found these

219
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:52.359
extensive sewer and waterways that were underground
that were very sophisticated carved in stone.

220
00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:56.480
But we don't see stone buildings or
pyramids. I mean, do you know

221
00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:03.839
of a location where there's a true
mctemple? Not really, I mean no.

222
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:10.400
We have ideas that the earthen ones
functioned in that way, but they

223
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:15.160
didn't preserve because they weren't of stone, and they certainly could have built them

224
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in stone. So this was this
was a conscious choice they made. I

225
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mean, through the research I've been
doing over the last couple of months,

226
00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:30.000
I can now confidently say that the
Olmec transported hundred, you know, thousands

227
00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:36.039
of tons of stone material, both
from the volcanoes, but also tons of

228
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:40.240
greenstone from the mountains to the south
of them. So they were they were

229
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:45.119
absolutely capable of getting the stone to
build the buildings in stone. They chose

230
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not to. Okay, that was
my next question is do we have noted

231
00:22:52.039 --> 00:23:00.319
Quarries and Leventa San Lorenzo or any
of these major sites where they're extracting stone

232
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:07.559
for stone masonry. They are actually
all of those sites have there. Their

233
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local stone is sandstone, and there's
an abundance of it. They can use

234
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:17.200
it in fact they do. It's
that's another one that just never shows up

235
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:21.759
in books because they're all salt licks
now. But if you actually go to

236
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the museum at the site of Leventa. You and I went to Park Leventa

237
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where they took the nice basalt ones
to that part. But when you go

238
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:36.000
to the site itself, there's another
three things that might be more heads.

239
00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:41.680
They're gigantic, they're like three four
meters tall, but they're made of sandstone,

240
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:48.119
and they're they're unreadable. They're so
eroded you can you I'm not even

241
00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:52.720
sure whether it's a steeler or ahead. They're they're strange that they're standing right

242
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.559
there in the museum. So they
they had sandstone, they could have built

243
00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:02.160
things out of sandstone and stuff goed
over them to protect it from erosion,

244
00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:07.599
but they didn't. I read a
couple of years ago that there was a

245
00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.279
great need, and I think it
was in San Lorenzo for some serious ground

246
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:22.000
penetrating radar studies, because as you
have alluded to, most of their buildings

247
00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:30.920
are either partially or completely underground,
and these waterworks are very sophisticated, but

248
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:36.880
they're they're not really visible unless part
they're partially shows so as a society,

249
00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:41.000
as a culture at their height,
and you're saying around four one hundred to

250
00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:48.000
five hundred BC, they were really
fairly sophisticated, aren't weren't they? Absolutely,

251
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:56.599
that water management technology is very sophisticated, and it goes on for hundreds

252
00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.799
of meters. There's a whole system
of it that's mostly centered around that Red

253
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:06.119
Palace and it was all buried.
There's you know, I also had a

254
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misconception that once the Olemech left that
nobody ever showed up again. That's not

255
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:15.400
true, and it's part of our
problem. There are classic period cities sitting

256
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:22.559
on top of the pier of the
huge platform at San Lorenzo. This gigantic

257
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:33.519
platform that stands fifty meters tall,
is over a kilometer long, But on

258
00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:38.759
top of it, a classic period
community came and they buried all of that

259
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:44.119
Olemech architecture and put their own city
on top of it. So that's part

260
00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:49.279
of the challenge of excavating the olemechs
stuff at San Lorenzo, that there's this

261
00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:56.599
huge classic period community that buried it
and built on top of it. Oh,

262
00:25:56.599 --> 00:25:59.799
that's a real problem. That's not
only is it a problem because we

263
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.000
don't know is what, but there's
probably a lot of or has been confusion

264
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:11.759
as to what's what they're well and
it's a worry to me because they could

265
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have moved all of the Olmec stuff, probably did, so where we think

266
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:22.799
these heads are is it's it's very
possible that they're not where they started.

267
00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:26.880
It seemed at first, I think, you know, early archaeologists like Matt

268
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:30.960
Sterling made you know, blanket assumptions
that well, no, I mean,

269
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:34.920
it's a twenty ton monument. Nobody
moved that. Well, A they moved

270
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:38.559
it to there, and B if
they moved it once, they could move

271
00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:41.720
it again. If they could move
it an inch, they could move it

272
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:48.920
a mile. There are two that
the three big classic Olmec sites with heads

273
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:55.240
are Leventa, San Lorenzo and tray
Seppotees. Right, And I was just

274
00:26:55.279 --> 00:27:02.119
looking at tray Cipotees. It's a
fascinating site that it's actually mostly Epiolmec.

275
00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:07.640
A lot of the texts and calendars
come from Tracippotees, but it was buried

276
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:14.839
by a flood and by ash and
by humans. The Olemec layer is like

277
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:21.400
twenty feet down, but twenty feet
down, and so magnetometers helped to find

278
00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:25.759
the basalt stuff, but it doesn't
help with the sandstone stuff. But anyway,

279
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:33.279
the two heads that come from tracippotees, they were clearly moved by the

280
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:37.960
epiol Mech people. The Epiolmech people
made four groups at the site, and

281
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.920
they all look almost identical. There's
a big pyramid on the west side,

282
00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:45.960
and there's a long platform on the
north side, and two of those four

283
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:53.160
have an Olmec head on a stone
platform in the middle of those plazas.

284
00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:59.640
But the Epiolmec built those plazas,
not the Olmec, which means clearly the

285
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:06.359
o Neck people that came in centuries
after a volcano kind of closed the ole

286
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:11.960
Neck one for business, and like
a century or maybe three later at bi

287
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:17.039
ole Neck reinhabited the site and they
moved those two heads. They took them

288
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:22.319
up and put them in new plazas, both facing north. So that's sagnifying

289
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:26.119
the ancients. They're saying, yeah, that's the conclusion is that it was

290
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:29.160
you know, it's an image of
our ancestors and it'll be right here in

291
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:33.000
this elite complex. But the disturbing
thing is they moved it and if they

292
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:37.240
moved it, where did they move
it from the assumption is that they moved

293
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:42.960
it from the lower levels of tray
suppotees. But since we know that that

294
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:49.160
San Lorenzo and Leventa moved heads,
you know, seventy eighty kilometers away,

295
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:55.960
who's to say those heads aren't from
Leventa. When Leventa fell at four hundred

296
00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:02.799
and and tray suppote starts up again
right about then, who's to say they

297
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:07.200
didn't actually just pack up two heads
and haul them over there. Mm hmm.

298
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:11.519
It's it's disturbing, I mean,
we we it's things like that that

299
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.640
you know. Once again, I
think archaeology might just be very, very

300
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:19.359
wrong about the assumptions we're making.
Well, you need to get more bodies

301
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:27.359
there to scan and to use equipment. This I think you said, was

302
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:32.359
it? What did you just say
that it was four hundred BC or there

303
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:37.799
was a war that wiped out the
prevailing Ulmec. We don't know that it

304
00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:40.960
was the war. We just know
that, uh, you know, the

305
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:48.200
primal city at that time was Leventa, and at Leventa it's a band.

306
00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:52.359
The whole city's abandoned at four hundred
BCE and why do we think it was.

307
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:57.839
But I mean, why would they
leave the city. We don't really

308
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:02.000
know. I mean, you know, it could be climactic, it could

309
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.920
be religiously founded, it could have
been you know a number of things.

310
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:11.440
There's no sign of attack, there's
no sign of rebellion, and those things

311
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.759
were pretty good at you know,
when a city burns, that's good for

312
00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:22.559
archaeology. We can see the ashes. I think I mentioned this to you

313
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:26.000
when I first met you, that
we've had Richard Hanson on a number of

314
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:34.880
times. His belief was that the
early Maya were contemporaries of the OMEC.

315
00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:38.799
That's number one and the other thing, and he's still I don't know.

316
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:41.799
I haven't seen any papers written by
him on this theory. And you may

317
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:52.119
know what I'm talking about, but
it's his belief that the these Maya ward

318
00:30:52.359 --> 00:31:00.599
against the OMEC and were fairly destructive
in their campaigns against them. So but

319
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:06.480
he doesn't I don't remember the specific
date that he gives in that war.

320
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:11.680
And I'm just curious about your feelings
on his hypothesis on this big war and

321
00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:19.480
the high level Maya culture living at
the same time, because the reason I

322
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:25.519
say that is that everyone believes that
the Omec are the mother culture of the

323
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:30.359
Maya, and this is changing now, this whole idea of that is changing.

324
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:34.319
So I do agree with the first
half of that that the Maya and

325
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:44.240
the Olmec were contemporaries and grew up
in parody along with the people of the

326
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:49.160
Valley of Mexico and the people of
the Valley of Wahaka. Now Hansen works

327
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:53.079
in El Mirador, I don't really
see those guys fitting into the puzzle so

328
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:59.240
much. The interaction that we see
between Olmec and Maya people is the Maya

329
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:05.400
people of what the region called the
Silka Nusco, which is the Pacific coast

330
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:10.519
between Guatemala and what's now Chiappus.
The whole lot of evidence that those ones

331
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:15.480
are interacting back and forth. I
don't know whether you know it's high civilization

332
00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:21.279
at that point down in the Maya
area, but they're definitely interacting. But

333
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:25.480
as far as a war, you
know, unless the Olmec just rolled over

334
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:31.720
and showed showed their belly every time, I don't think that we can say

335
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:37.720
that because I've again, I've just
taken a deeper dive than ever into the

336
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:43.200
art and the artifact record of these
Olmec sites, and a fascinating thing is

337
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:49.000
that there are no show, no
signs of any kind of war depicted on

338
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:52.559
any of their monuments. And I
went through the whole corpus of I've got

339
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:57.160
this big thing here, I'll show
you. I've been lugging this stupid book

340
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:01.119
around for this. Look, my
god, twenty pounds. This is the

341
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:10.279
whole artifact records of Co's digging at
San Lorenzo. Oh, Michael Cole,

342
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:15.880
Yeah, oh okay, volume thing. And it's got pictures of all the

343
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:22.720
artifacts they found and everything. You
know how many possible uh spearheads are in

344
00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:29.240
that whole corpus? Five wow?
Five the Omec. We're not fighting with

345
00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:32.200
anybody, not with themselves, and
they certainly didn't exalt it in any of

346
00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:37.279
their monuments. I have been looking
and looking and looking for any image of

347
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:44.480
the Olmec holding a weapon or a
shield or wearing armor. Nothing. The

348
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:49.359
first time it shows up is it
trace Suppotda's when they turn epi Olmec.

349
00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:52.640
That's the very first monument. But
what is this part of the world.

350
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:58.519
What's the definition of Epiolmec? Is
that meaning that the they're restarting. Is

351
00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:02.359
that a term to restore? Aren't? Or you don't know what happened before

352
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:08.480
that? It's uh, it's a
weird term. I wish that someone whoever

353
00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:13.679
coined it it picked something else.
It makes them sound lesser or but it

354
00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:20.199
is the it's post Olmec. The
division line is really about the writing and

355
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:25.039
the calendar. All of a sudden, the monuments of that region start involving

356
00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:30.239
hieroglyphs and calendar glyphs. And they
had never meant they had never shown that

357
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:35.320
at all. There's a little bit
there that you and I saw in Leventa

358
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:38.599
Park, those couple of glyphs on
the traveler that look like they might be

359
00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:45.480
glyphs oh three in front of him
that say there's that that hang ten footprint

360
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:52.159
behind him, and then the ones
that might say lord and rain, oh

361
00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:55.719
God. But those are the I
mean, you know, we can't say

362
00:34:55.760 --> 00:35:01.119
that they they were literate with lifts
total. We're coming back to your quote

363
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:05.199
that I use with a lot of
different people, which is we only have

364
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:12.400
one percent of these places excavated,
if that, and it's like total guesswork.

365
00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:15.599
That's why I've always I've always challenged
when I read a book about the

366
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:21.920
Maya. It's like, well,
how accurate is this data? Well,

367
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:25.639
you know, I think that you
know, I've ceased losing sleep over that

368
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:30.599
matter that you know, we just
what we have to do is responsibly remind

369
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:35.199
ourselves that all of this is theoretical. It's not just made up. You

370
00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:39.119
know, the best theories are based
on the evidence we have at our disposal,

371
00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:43.960
but none of it should be couched
as truth at this point. It's

372
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.519
all working theories. That's so refreshing
to hear from you, Ed, And

373
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:53.920
I wish more in the archaeological community
would be as upfront and is open about

374
00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:59.360
the fact that, you know,
we're just still working at figuring this stuff

375
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:04.280
out. You know, well,
you know, my colleagues and I are

376
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:07.280
compelled to make up good stories so
that people give us money to continue our

377
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:16.719
work. All right, here's one
for you that I find totally fascinating.

378
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:21.519
I don't think we've had a conversation
about it. And this is what I

379
00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:27.960
believe is the multi cultural, actually
multi racial attributes that we see in the

380
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:34.039
artwork of the OMEC. I see
African centric, I see Asian centric,

381
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:39.960
I see Caucasian. I also see
and we see more of this in the

382
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:45.440
Maya. We see long heads that
appear to be naturally this way and not

383
00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:52.159
necessarily headbound. But we're focusing on
the Omech. Do you believe that the

384
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:59.239
Omec were multi racial? No?
No, I do not, Jesus Christ,

385
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:06.119
Okay, you got why not?
Well, because the people who live

386
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:09.320
in that Region's let's separate it out. We got African looking guys, we

387
00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:14.039
got Asian looking guys. Right,
Let's start with the African looking guys.

388
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:19.719
Right, Let's give the example the
basalt heads, the basalt heads, the

389
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.000
ones that they call the colossal heads, seventeen of them that we have.

390
00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:30.199
They look very African. They have
wide noses and thick lips. And I

391
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:36.840
mean, I agree they look African. The reason I do not believe they're

392
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:43.440
African is because I travel through that
region and meet people who live there today,

393
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:49.280
and they have wide noses and thick
lips. There was just this last

394
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:52.880
I guess it was March, so
yeah, last month, I brought a

395
00:37:52.920 --> 00:38:00.519
group to this little visited museum in
Santiago Tousche in the Tushla Mountains, right

396
00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:08.159
in between where San Lorenzo and Leventon
and Trace Ponte Sorr it's that those mountains

397
00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:13.320
are where the stone was quarried.
Oh and I got our, I got

398
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:15.159
us there a little early. We
were kind of hanging around in the plaza

399
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:20.039
looking at the biggest of the heads, called lach Corbata. And when the

400
00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:22.920
museum finally opened, it was the
guard who opened the door. And he

401
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:27.039
was a big guy for the region. He was like six foot tall,

402
00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:34.280
a little bit taller than me.
But his face was absolutely the faces on

403
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:37.960
those those colossal heads. He had
the wide nose and the thick lips.

404
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:44.199
I mean, he was an absolute
picture off of those heads. And there's

405
00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:46.800
a lot of people in that region
who look that way. It is a

406
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:52.960
it is a physical trait of the
folks that live in the isthmus of Tauantepec

407
00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:57.519
that they look that way. But
as an anthropologist, when do you say

408
00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:02.280
this is a possibility of migration from
Africa at the very earliest part, and

409
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:08.800
that these individuals that you're looking at
are descendants from this African race that came

410
00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:14.360
well, you know, not just
by their facial characteristics. I would also

411
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:20.079
strongly need that tawny hair, you
know, that that kind of curly hair

412
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:25.559
that that Africans and also to a
lesser degree Aboriginal Australians have. Yeah,

413
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:31.280
none of that is anywhere there.
We have, of course, you know,

414
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:37.320
the modern DNA database. A lot
of people in that region have been

415
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:43.639
tested, the modern people, and
they are clearly American Indian. And we

416
00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:46.440
do have, you know, even
though we don't have many skeletons, we

417
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:52.960
do have two skeletons that were actually
DNA studied from San Lorenzo. They were

418
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:55.320
found, you know, less than
a decade ago. Yeah, and both

419
00:39:55.360 --> 00:40:00.800
of those came back really strongly Native
American. But really, I mean honestly,

420
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:05.960
yes, okay, we have two
skeletons, but it would be nice

421
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:12.480
to have a whole volume of data
that would pin this to local Oh.

422
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:15.719
Absolutely agreed. Though, you know, let me let me counterpoint you of

423
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:25.039
you know, you cannot take a
stone image carved by a person as proof

424
00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:32.840
good enough to suggest something as amazing
as colonization from Africa. I mean,

425
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:39.639
we need more to go on than
a pretty face, obviously. Yeah,

426
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:45.719
we're going to take a short commercial
break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves,

427
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:52.679
and we will return shortly with my
guest today, doctor Edwin Barnhardt.

428
00:40:53.239 --> 00:41:32.840
We'll be right back My guest today
is field archaeologist doctor Edwin Barnhardt. We've

429
00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:37.079
been with ed now for over a
year. He's a regular contributor to Earth

430
00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:43.480
Ancients. We just got back from
a tour of Tabasco, Mexico, and

431
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:47.000
got a chance to see some of
these amazing Omec sculptures. But there's so

432
00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:52.880
much we don't know about this civilization, and Ed's helping us understand this culture

433
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:59.920
a little bit better. Let's go
to the Asian side of it. Now

434
00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:02.079
I see it from I mean this
is with Maya too, and I've been

435
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:07.880
visiting there for over twenty years,
Mexico and seeing the Maya insights in the

436
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:16.440
museums. It's almost a dominant racial
characteristic to have these Asiatic individuals in their

437
00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:23.400
pottery and the sculpture and the figurines. It's everywhere, and when it comes

438
00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:30.360
to the Omech, it's I've had
people that we've had on the show say

439
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:37.559
that there are a group of scientists
in China who say that the Omech come

440
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:42.000
from an early race in China.
Now, I haven't gotten any I haven't

441
00:42:42.039 --> 00:42:45.239
found I'm not a researcher, so
I haven't gotten in I am a researcher,

442
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:51.199
but I haven't gotten in and found
white paper that conclusively states this fact.

443
00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:53.400
But when I hear this, I
have to wonder, is it just

444
00:42:53.480 --> 00:43:00.920
someone just spouting off or do you
have any evidence of an early voyage from

445
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:07.400
mainland China into the Americas and then
a migration that eventually turns into the Olemec.

446
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:14.199
Well, I do not have any
any evidence of a migration like that,

447
00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:16.679
and we'd be targeting I guess,
you know, four thousand years ago,

448
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:23.519
not forty thousand years ago. I
know, I know there's some some

449
00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:28.440
talk about, you know, in
China's more recent history, they had a

450
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:32.320
huge fleet of ships, and it's
definitely in the possibility that they hit California

451
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:37.360
or even Mexico at that point,
but that would be later than the Olmec.

452
00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:42.079
But we can say again, you
know, it's a brave new world.

453
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:45.000
With these DNA studies. We used
to just be able to say,

454
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:49.559
well, we'll agree to disagree,
But with the DNA studies, we now

455
00:43:49.719 --> 00:43:59.119
know that Native Americans are definitely of
Asian phenotype. We know that the DNA

456
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:04.559
is backing up the idea that the
migrations of people into the Americas be they

457
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:07.840
you know, we used to think
it was twelve thousand years ago. Now

458
00:44:07.880 --> 00:44:12.000
it's more like thirty thousand years ago. And now the nutjobs are the ones

459
00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:15.039
that say that it's sixty thousand years
ago. And we'll just wait for the

460
00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:19.119
other shoe to drop for those not
be as crazy as they sound right now.

461
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:23.960
But we've got all of the lines
of evidence point to a migration,

462
00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:29.800
regardless of its time period, from
Asia. So we have a deep,

463
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:37.760
you know, genetic link to all
Native American populations to Asia and Maya.

464
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:42.440
I know, you know, I
have friends that I've grown up with around

465
00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:45.280
there, and I've seen their babies. And interesting thing that you've got to

466
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:50.320
be a friend with Amaya to see
is that their babies are born with the

467
00:44:50.360 --> 00:44:55.480
Mongolian spot at the base of their
spine. It's this kind of birthmark that

468
00:44:55.480 --> 00:45:00.679
that is very very typical in Asia. All all the cultures of Asia and

469
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:06.719
the Maya also have it. The
spot goes away within like the first year

470
00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:10.599
or two of life. That's a
spot, a spot that's a rudimentary it's

471
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:14.440
right at the base of their spine
and it's kind of it looks like a

472
00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:16.360
birthmark. It's not like you know, a perfect circle. It's kind of

473
00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:22.400
like a splat. That's a you
know, a snout like a snowflake.

474
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:25.360
No, no, two kids,
Mongolian spot is the same. But it's

475
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:29.199
there. It's a little discolored piece
right at the base of the spine.

476
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:31.199
And you got to see, you
know, some you gotta be good enough

477
00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:36.159
friends with the Maya for them to
show you their babies take it. But

478
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:39.960
but but it's there, and uh, and so there is Asian stock.

479
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:44.079
And that makes me think I'm gonna
challenge you, uh, Cliff, go

480
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:47.559
back through all those cool books behind
you and look at all the places that

481
00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:54.519
it looks the most Asian to you
in olmec art And I bet you what

482
00:45:54.559 --> 00:45:58.920
you're gonna find is the ones that
you think are the most Asian are the

483
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:02.800
ones we call chubby babies. They're
mostly the baby ones. And their eyes

484
00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:07.679
are kind of slanted like their Chinese
and their lips are downturned, and but

485
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:14.360
they are fat babies. And to
my mind, to my my theory on

486
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:19.519
that is that the omech A showing
this kind of you know, opulent,

487
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:23.320
welve fed baby look and their sculpture. You talk about their sculptures, right,

488
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:28.599
sculptures, the sculptures, and not
just the sculpt more the the the

489
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:32.000
ceramics, the ceramics of people that
are chubby and sitting there with their bald

490
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:35.800
head. Those are the ones that
I mean, if you look at the

491
00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:39.199
arguments for the Asian thing, they're
they're all they're always focused on those those

492
00:46:39.239 --> 00:46:47.400
babies and uh and again very fat
Maya babies look very Asian when they get

493
00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:53.280
when their faces get fat, it
they're they're They're Asian phenotype comes out.

494
00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:58.239
So I I think it's all.
I think it's all very explainable. So

495
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:02.400
are you saying that with this Asian
migration it was just through the Baring Strait,

496
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:08.760
that you don't have any belief of
any migrations through waterways like the Pacific

497
00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:15.480
or Atlantic Ocean. No, I'm
not saying that. I'm saying I'm saying

498
00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:19.760
that it's from Asia for sure.
Yeah. I do not see enough evidence

499
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:24.239
to say that they island topped across
Oceania. But I do think it makes

500
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:29.880
the old idea of the ice corridor
that they slipped through this little place in

501
00:47:29.960 --> 00:47:35.079
Canada and came down to North America
by foot. Yeah, it seems silly

502
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:38.039
and overworked to me. I think
the logical thing would be that they had

503
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:43.599
canoes. They were coastal people,
they had boats, and they made much

504
00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:49.960
faster progress down the coast all the
way into South America than this ice corridor

505
00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:53.320
theory. That is pretty much.
I mean, I think probably more than

506
00:47:53.360 --> 00:48:00.039
half of my colleagues now have put
the ice corridor theory bed or at least

507
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:04.800
not the only way that people made
through. Sure, maybe some people walked,

508
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:07.519
but I think that they shot down
the coast. I think these were

509
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:15.119
seafaring people that they vast progress down
the coast and then filtered inland in the

510
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:19.840
places that they stopped. So,
if they're coming down to the coast front

511
00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:24.280
to Mexico to Pacific side, where
are they originating from? Are they coming

512
00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:30.559
up from South America or down from
North America? The original ones are coming

513
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:36.920
down from Alaska from that crossing in
the Bearing Street. Oh they're coming,

514
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:39.000
that's a Oh, that's the hell
of a boat. Right, those are

515
00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:44.679
the first ones. But if now
we can see that you know, it's

516
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:49.920
thirty thousand years ago, not twelve
thousand years ago, then we've got enough

517
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:52.920
time depth to say, you know, the first groups came down starting thirty

518
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:57.599
thousand years ago, and they made
it all the way to South America,

519
00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:01.320
and then ten thousand years later those
guys to go north, and so you

520
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:07.679
know, you could see, I
could see where the migration overall patterns are

521
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:15.679
much more complicated than just a one
off and then they entered the Americas.

522
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:20.800
There could have with the time depth
we now believe, there's plenty of time

523
00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:25.960
for a culture to have grown up
in South America for ten thousand years and

524
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:32.000
then moved back north up into Mexico
to influence them. Yeah, you made

525
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:37.840
a good point earlier in our discussion
a Chinese coming to California. I think

526
00:49:37.880 --> 00:49:45.519
they found anchors off of the coast
of the Catalina Islands that are attributed to

527
00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:51.400
or they had the same style as
early Chinese mariners, so that may have

528
00:49:51.400 --> 00:49:57.800
been a starting point and then coming
down further. I'm curious about diffusion,

529
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:02.320
and this is a real problem when
we start talking about the high level of

530
00:50:06.199 --> 00:50:14.639
high degree of advancement when it comes
to astronomy, mathematics, and clindical studies,

531
00:50:14.679 --> 00:50:19.880
which the OMEC were brilliant at.
Do we think they had their own

532
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:23.559
R and D development where they came
out of nowhere and just started putting out

533
00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:30.840
calendars or did they inherit because their
calendars are pretty sophisticated, you know,

534
00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:36.119
we see them on their steely the
standing markers. But where do we think

535
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:42.719
that originates. I think they invented
them. When they invented them is a

536
00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:45.119
question, and whether the Maya did
or whether the zapitect did. I think

537
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:49.519
that there was a there was an
R and D, and there was probably

538
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:53.440
you know, annual conferences too with
guys that were the you know, the

539
00:50:53.480 --> 00:51:00.800
top thinkers of those societies getting together
and talking about things. It's you know,

540
00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:05.679
it's a hard thing to get at. The Mesoamerican calendar is so different

541
00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:12.480
than the calendars of like the Phoenicians
or even the Chinese, that there's not

542
00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:17.800
a lot of logical A to B
thinking that we can do about, you

543
00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:23.719
know, suggesting that they got their
calendar from either, you know, the

544
00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:29.639
either the side of the Atlantic or
the Pacific. I think it was an

545
00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:36.079
original thought and that it began with
this two hundred and sixty day calendar that

546
00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:42.159
involves twenty day names in thirteen numbers. There's an interesting thing that just that

547
00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:45.400
Takeshi and Omada is doing with the
Olmec, you know, he just did

548
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:52.519
that incredible lidar study where he found
the PLU two hundred platforms. But the

549
00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:57.719
another part of that study, that
same study that I was keyed in on,

550
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:04.480
was the rec ignition that a lot
of these long north south oriented platforms

551
00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:08.039
have twenty small buildings on top of
them. He's seen the pattern in a

552
00:52:08.079 --> 00:52:14.440
couple of them, and his suggestion
is that that twenty is about the twenty

553
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:19.960
day names, and that it's an
indicator that even back in those Olmec times,

554
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:22.239
even though they weren't putting it on
monuments, they were still functioning.

555
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:28.920
They were still using that two hundred
and sixty day calendar. Yeah, I

556
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:34.039
mean a mata is not what is
he suggesting? Those are omech or are

557
00:52:34.039 --> 00:52:38.119
they Mayasyites? Well, the one
Aguada phoenix he's been saying is a Mayasite

558
00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:43.639
for a while. But I just
saw a lecture from him on the Internet

559
00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:46.599
where he looks like he's coming around. I mean, he's getting just it's

560
00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:51.280
just too much. After he found, you know, exactly the same platform

561
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:57.320
two hundred times to the west in
the Omec area, he's beginning to finally

562
00:52:57.320 --> 00:53:00.280
come around that that's that's not Maya, that's all. You know. The

563
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:07.119
one thing that's funny about his research
is when he did a ground study where

564
00:53:07.119 --> 00:53:12.480
he dug into one of the platforms
and the different layers go way way way

565
00:53:12.519 --> 00:53:16.000
back. But the funny thing about
it is they look like load bearing layers,

566
00:53:16.039 --> 00:53:20.360
like they were made for heavy weight
of some kind. Has he come

567
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:23.920
up with any any follow up theories
on why they would do that. I

568
00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:27.639
haven't heard of anything like that.
I mean, I know, if you

569
00:53:27.679 --> 00:53:30.480
want your building to stand, you're
going to have to build it well.

570
00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:36.119
And the testimony is that it's still
there, so they did do the job

571
00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:38.559
well. But he has found one
of the things that make him resistant to

572
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:45.400
name Aguada Phoenix, which is very
much east of any olemic thing we knew

573
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:52.119
previously. He's found absolutely no basalt
statues, in fact, no big statues

574
00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:58.760
of any kind at that site,
which is admittedly a disconnect. And the

575
00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:05.280
ceramics he's found in the excavations are
much more strongly Maya, which I find

576
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:09.239
more explainable because it's on the border
between the old Mech lands and the in

577
00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:15.119
the Maya lands, so that having
Maya ceramics at a Maya border does not

578
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:20.159
make you know that's no more strange
than all the Mexican ceramics at the Texas

579
00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:27.679
border. But they're all dated around
pre Dynastic. MAYA correct that? Oh

580
00:54:27.719 --> 00:54:31.320
yeah, yes, before the Classic
period. Sure, it's it's pre Classic

581
00:54:31.639 --> 00:54:40.679
and in fact contemporaneous with the transition
between right about a thousand BCE, Lorenzo

582
00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:47.079
San Lorenzo falls and levent A rises
and a Guada Phoenix starts right in that

583
00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:54.559
time period. Okay, have we
found any steely of the ole Mech that

584
00:54:54.920 --> 00:55:02.159
lists a noted king, ruler,
queen, or anyone of importance in the

585
00:55:02.199 --> 00:55:08.719
recent history? Well, I'm keen
on the word list, in other words,

586
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:15.159
describing a ruler. No, we
have, no, we have.

587
00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:20.800
That's a that's a misunderstanding that we
should put to bed right here. There

588
00:55:20.920 --> 00:55:25.880
is no Olmec writing. There is
epi Olmec writing that starts about four hundred

589
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:30.840
BCE, really, but from eighteen
hundred to four hundred we have zero,

590
00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:38.639
zero Olmec writing. There is none. So you're saying it's a development period

591
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:45.079
up until four hundred BC. Well, if you consider them undeveloped until they

592
00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:49.599
start writing, yes, but I
mean they did make you know, a

593
00:55:49.639 --> 00:55:53.159
couple of platforms that were a kilometer
long. That's that's that's fairly developed,

594
00:55:53.159 --> 00:55:58.559
in my opinion. Don't we have
any writing, not writing, but carving

595
00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:06.880
of notation on astronomical events from the
Olmec prior to for litally not? I

596
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:12.320
think that, you know, and
I don't. I think that probably certain

597
00:56:12.519 --> 00:56:17.599
things that we can read lump in
Olmec and epiol Mac. But archaeology makes

598
00:56:17.599 --> 00:56:23.480
a clear division between Olmec and EPIOLMC, and it's only Epiolmec that are making

599
00:56:24.039 --> 00:56:30.719
texts of any kind, be them
textual or calindrical, ok, mathematical.

600
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:37.599
So we could say that from one
thousand BC to four thousand BC it was

601
00:56:37.639 --> 00:56:45.360
a development period. And up until
very recently the decade ago, everybody thought

602
00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:50.840
that the Omech were the mother culture
to the Maya and handed over their clindrical

603
00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:57.199
studies, their sciences and whatever.
So that's a hell of a fast appearance

604
00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:04.840
of sophistication. Do what you say, it's certainly an invention. It's certainly

605
00:57:04.880 --> 00:57:09.360
an invention, and we are probably
almost always missing pieces of the puzzle,

606
00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:15.400
you know. I'd say, in
general, what frustrates me about Mesoamerica versus

607
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:24.599
say, Egypt or Mesopotamia is the
environment only preserves certain things, and by

608
00:57:24.639 --> 00:57:30.440
the time something's carved in stone,
that is a well thought out project.

609
00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:35.679
You know, the in quneiform.
We have those those clay tablets that lasted

610
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:40.239
forever, So we have the you
know, the vital information of the development

611
00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:45.039
process. We have like people who
wrote crappy poems and people who are bad

612
00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:51.400
mathematicians who actually put things in quneiform, and we have them. So we

613
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:55.519
see a progression of people getting better
and better and then perfecting things. We're

614
00:57:55.559 --> 00:58:01.920
in Mesuo America. All we have
are the perfected project. The development stuff

615
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:07.800
was probably on more perishable medium that
we don't have. So you're saying that

616
00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:12.280
in the Olmec world, we haven't
found any part of me with writing,

617
00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:21.400
any kind of a language or even
early symbology in any of their artifacts.

618
00:58:21.800 --> 00:58:24.480
No, well, there's symbolism.
There's certainly, you know, iconography there.

619
00:58:24.679 --> 00:58:29.320
It's it's a it's a rich corpus
and we debate on you know,

620
00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:31.760
what these things mean. In fact, there are some of some of my

621
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:37.840
colleagues believe there's a whole Olmec pantheon
of gods that we can identify through this

622
00:58:37.960 --> 00:58:43.519
kind of iconography. It's not writing
per se. You know that there's a

623
00:58:43.519 --> 00:58:47.559
bit of a snobbery when it comes
to defining writing. For linguists, it

624
00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:54.400
has to reflect human speech. So
if it's not reflecting the human word,

625
00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:59.880
if it's not something I can look
at and sound out, then it's an

626
00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:07.239
Then it's iconography. If it's something
that I can read and actually speak as

627
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:12.480
I'm looking at the symbols, that's
writing. If it's not that, then

628
00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:19.320
it's iconography or symbolism. But there's
a rich body of Olmec symbolism that art

629
00:59:19.360 --> 00:59:27.280
history thinks we know all sorts of
things about. You know, it was

630
00:59:27.320 --> 00:59:32.159
so great to go to Leventa to
see these sculptures up closer for personal One

631
00:59:32.159 --> 00:59:35.800
of the things I didn't get a
chance to ask you one of the other

632
00:59:36.519 --> 00:59:45.239
guests probably did. But what form
of tool would they have to cut basalt

633
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:51.840
stone, one of the hardest stones
in the world, and to make it

634
00:59:51.880 --> 00:59:59.239
so smooth and rounded to uh sculpture
these faces in these these rocks. I

635
00:59:59.239 --> 01:00:02.920
mean, well, they weren't using
still right, they weren't using copper.

636
01:00:04.039 --> 01:00:09.280
What were they using? Harder stone
that's or stone that's of an equal hardness,

637
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:14.519
But they've created it properly. We
believe it's a lot of a lot

638
01:00:14.519 --> 01:00:20.440
of hammer stones and a lot of
like jadeite is a very hard stone,

639
01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:24.440
and you could there's lots of axe
heads and kind of thick owls that we

640
01:00:24.519 --> 01:00:30.119
find in the artifact record, So
we think they're doing it with just harder

641
01:00:30.159 --> 01:00:34.519
stone. And the fine work is
actually probably done with obsidian. I know,

642
01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:38.280
hard obsidian is is very brittle,
but it's also very hard. If

643
01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:43.400
you use it nice and slow and
you're an expert, you can cut into

644
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:45.960
basalt fairly easily. But you just
got to know what you're doing. You

645
01:00:46.039 --> 01:00:50.599
got to make the tool right,
and they do exhaust you'd have to go

646
01:00:50.719 --> 01:00:53.480
through a lot of tools. But
yeah, and for this, so the

647
01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:58.280
for the finer work, like you
know that the actual pupils of the eyes

648
01:00:58.360 --> 01:01:05.719
of those those colossal heads, those
those are probably finished off with obsidian.

649
01:01:06.360 --> 01:01:13.599
Did Sterling ever find like what you
could consider an artist's studio with these artifacts

650
01:01:13.639 --> 01:01:16.679
and heads and stuff? I mean, I've seen pictures of him, you

651
01:01:16.679 --> 01:01:22.960
know, standing over the partially exposed
head of one of these basalt heads.

652
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:27.599
But did he find something more tangible, like a like a studio with those

653
01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:32.760
artifacts and things? Sterling never did. No. Sterling was very much involved

654
01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:38.480
in the city center and crafting romantic
stories for National Geographic who was paying his

655
01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:46.679
bills. But we do have there
there is what they call a recycling artist

656
01:01:46.719 --> 01:01:52.480
workshop at on the top of San
Lorenzo, right next to the Red Palace.

657
01:01:52.960 --> 01:01:59.440
There's a place where they're obviously recycling
old, older basalt monuments into smaller,

658
01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:04.800
newer ones. We've also identified a
couple of quarries at the at the

659
01:02:04.840 --> 01:02:10.920
Tuschela Mountains and we find some half
made statues there, so that's actually really

660
01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:16.719
interesting. There's there's ones that it's
the evidence there points to both the big

661
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:22.239
altars and the heads are being kind
of rough made without their details there at

662
01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:29.559
the quarry and then transported and final
details are created at the sites. Okay,

663
01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:35.880
as we get to the end of
this, do we have any decipherment

664
01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:42.559
that gives us a sense of this
as to the almoss yearning to know about

665
01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:46.400
the stars, astronomy and calendars and
cycles and things like that. Is there

666
01:02:46.480 --> 01:02:52.880
any idea that we have found where
someone's saying, Okay, we need to

667
01:02:52.880 --> 01:02:57.639
look into this constellation, or we
need to look into this star system or

668
01:02:57.639 --> 01:03:04.039
something. Oh you know, we
are still struggling to figure out a lot

669
01:03:04.039 --> 01:03:09.079
of olmec astronomical knowledge. I do. Actually, there there's a there's a

670
01:03:09.159 --> 01:03:15.519
wave that's coming through right now that's
about the Milky Way. And I really

671
01:03:15.639 --> 01:03:19.599
like this research, and it's it's
pairing up with stuff that's happening in North

672
01:03:19.639 --> 01:03:23.719
America. There's a there's a colleague
of mine named William Romayne who's been doing

673
01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:31.280
some really fascinating work about Mississippian sites
lining up to the Milky Way in its

674
01:03:31.400 --> 01:03:37.480
north south orientation. Oh, you
mean the mountain mound builders. Yeah,

675
01:03:37.480 --> 01:03:42.159
the mound builders. He's at Kahokia
and Angel Mound and he's still going it

676
01:03:42.239 --> 01:03:45.079
might also be in the Hope.
Well, there are these things. There

677
01:03:45.079 --> 01:03:51.119
are these alignments that are just slightly
off north south, which I've always ignored

678
01:03:51.320 --> 01:03:54.519
because they're you know, east west
is where things are rising and setting.

679
01:03:55.320 --> 01:03:59.800
But he's come up with this idea
that kind of based on an idea that

680
01:03:59.840 --> 01:04:03.400
I had thirty years ago. My
research is coming back around about how important

681
01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:09.360
the Milky Way is to everyone in
the New World. But all those OLEMC

682
01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:16.639
platforms are oriented about six to eight
degrees off north south, and the Milky

683
01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:21.679
way in its north south formation is
the road to the other world. It's

684
01:04:23.079 --> 01:04:27.880
it's the road the dead travel,
our spirits travel it when we're dreaming.

685
01:04:28.440 --> 01:04:31.599
It's the road between this and the
other world. And so with all of

686
01:04:31.639 --> 01:04:35.679
these, when we just had a
couple of Olmec platforms, it was it

687
01:04:35.719 --> 01:04:39.840
was not enough of a pattern to
really argue it. But now we're getting

688
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:45.400
more and more of these north south
oriented platforms, and with Bill's latest ideas

689
01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:53.440
about Mississippian orientations that have the same
orientation, I at least am beginning to

690
01:04:53.519 --> 01:05:00.519
think that these big Olmec platforms are
lined up as the path between this world

691
01:05:00.599 --> 01:05:03.480
and the other world. And what
are all the shamans on top of it

692
01:05:03.559 --> 01:05:08.079
doing. They're contacting the other world. So I think they've kind of like

693
01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:13.760
the the orientation is opening the portal
to the other world that's up in the

694
01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:23.119
sky to them, so that handset
possible freests, astronomers using the platforms for

695
01:05:23.559 --> 01:05:27.400
ceremony. I guess, yeah,
yeah, And I you know, we

696
01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:31.199
we divide a priestly class and a
political class. They didn't, so probably

697
01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:35.719
the Kings participated in that as well. But this this orientation, which has

698
01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:42.920
so far been unexplainable. I think
that Bill Romayne's research is actually giving us

699
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:46.000
some hope that we might have an
actual meeting. Now, Cliff, I

700
01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:49.159
know you said we're near the end. I've been holding back on something to

701
01:05:49.159 --> 01:05:53.679
blow your mind with. Go ahead, we're all you know, I know

702
01:05:53.800 --> 01:06:00.280
you, I know you love the
whole ancient machines thing. There is a

703
01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:06.400
crazy artifact group in the Olmec that
that you may may or may not know

704
01:06:06.440 --> 01:06:14.519
about. Have you heard of the
uh Ill Mennite cubes. They're they're they're

705
01:06:14.599 --> 01:06:24.280
magnetite ilemnite, and they're found in
uh Omecville, but not just some that's

706
01:06:24.599 --> 01:06:30.480
that's My last question to you was
was that there are strange magnetic anomalies and

707
01:06:30.519 --> 01:06:34.079
some of the sculptures that the Omec
are are attributed to the Omec, but

708
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:39.440
I'm not sure about these. Tell
me about them. Okay. They are

709
01:06:39.519 --> 01:06:45.480
all cubes. They're made out of
a magnetite that's specifically called i Ill mennite.

710
01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:49.400
They're about this big, and they
all have three holes drilled in them,

711
01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:55.159
and so they're you know, they're
a little larger and not exactly square,

712
01:06:55.239 --> 01:06:58.679
but they're you know, about the
size of a of a big dice

713
01:07:00.920 --> 01:07:05.239
they have found and they're in all
of the reports, but nobody ever mentions

714
01:07:05.320 --> 01:07:13.480
them. They have found over six
metric tons of them in big caches on

715
01:07:13.760 --> 01:07:17.599
top of San Lorenzo, but also
at all the other sites, and sometimes

716
01:07:17.639 --> 01:07:24.679
little just individual ones show up in
house mounds. But there are six metric

717
01:07:24.840 --> 01:07:28.639
tons. Actually I think I just
found more. I think I'm up to

718
01:07:28.760 --> 01:07:32.199
like ten metric tons, because it's
also at another part of San Lorenzo called

719
01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:40.639
Loma Sapote, and they're overall,
there's like one hundred and forty thousand of

720
01:07:40.679 --> 01:07:45.280
these cubes and they are buried in
a pit right next to the Red Palace

721
01:07:45.440 --> 01:07:49.920
on top of San Lorenzo. And
they're magnetic, and you know, I

722
01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:56.440
looked up like, why the hell
would anyone they're weekly magnetic, but they

723
01:07:56.480 --> 01:08:00.480
are magnetite, And I looked it
up, like what is ill mennite?

724
01:08:00.679 --> 01:08:06.000
And why would anybody care? The
biggest stash in the world of it is

725
01:08:06.039 --> 01:08:12.280
in Russia, and you know why
they mine it because it's the best source

726
01:08:12.320 --> 01:08:18.640
of titanium. So the best source
of titanium, there are cubes of it,

727
01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:25.800
one hundred and forty thousand of them
buried right next to the palace in

728
01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:31.840
San Lorenzo is like that. The
theories are, oh, they're probably fishing

729
01:08:31.920 --> 01:08:38.479
weight nets, or maybe they're pieces
of jewelry, or an Ceipher's thinks that

730
01:08:38.520 --> 01:08:45.119
they were part of drills that you
would like drill into stone using them,

731
01:08:45.199 --> 01:08:47.960
that their holes inside would allow them
to be one of those like spin hilled.

732
01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:53.640
But one hundred and forty thousand of
them buried next to the palace,

733
01:08:54.560 --> 01:08:58.319
what the heck? And there's the
last head that was found at San Lorenzo,

734
01:08:58.800 --> 01:09:03.640
has this really weird head helmet and
all of it's these little beads.

735
01:09:03.680 --> 01:09:09.399
I thought they were jade beads,
but uh, but apparently an Cipher's thinks

736
01:09:09.399 --> 01:09:15.000
that it's a hat made of those
im night cube. I know the sculpture

737
01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:17.279
you're talking about. It's got little
squares all through it. And I was

738
01:09:17.399 --> 01:09:23.800
just there and asked a man who
runs a museum in another town nearby,

739
01:09:24.079 --> 01:09:29.880
Ayukon, and he was there at
the excavation, and he said that about

740
01:09:29.880 --> 01:09:34.079
ten of those cubes, those little
cubes were in the matrix around head ten

741
01:09:34.399 --> 01:09:39.319
from San Lorenzo. Now I'm really
stepping out on a limb here, but

742
01:09:39.439 --> 01:09:45.399
you know what the heck is that
Why are these metal cubes in hue like

743
01:09:45.640 --> 01:09:50.560
by the ton in these Olmec sites
And nobody people are like that. My

744
01:09:50.640 --> 01:09:56.520
colleagues are like, oh, they're
probably fishing. Wait fish if they're magnetic

745
01:09:57.319 --> 01:10:01.039
magnetic those I mean they're not wrongly
magnetic. I mean for a moment I

746
01:10:01.039 --> 01:10:03.800
thought like, you know, because
they all have the holes in them too,

747
01:10:03.840 --> 01:10:09.319
so they're weave together. They're probably
weave together in something maybe like a

748
01:10:09.359 --> 01:10:12.640
net. But I mean, you
know, for a brief moment, I

749
01:10:12.680 --> 01:10:15.800
thought like, well, if you
pile them all right together and you put

750
01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:20.600
them magnetically, you know, north
south, could you actually levitate something with

751
01:10:20.680 --> 01:10:24.960
a net made of this ship?
But I was like, no, you're

752
01:10:25.039 --> 01:10:29.000
crazy. I don't even say that
out loud. Don't say it on the

753
01:10:29.800 --> 01:10:32.199
Earth Ancients podcast. You can say
it here, but watch out. If

754
01:10:32.239 --> 01:10:38.159
you got university funding, you rights
public. I already discounted that idea.

755
01:10:38.279 --> 01:10:47.199
Do not credit me with that idea. No, we welcome, they'll look

756
01:10:47.199 --> 01:10:54.520
it up. It's insane there.
I mean, six tons of a material

757
01:10:54.680 --> 01:11:00.920
that modern people get titanium out of. What's it doing there? I wonder

758
01:11:00.960 --> 01:11:08.560
if there's any sculptures or any platform, Uh what do they call it?

759
01:11:09.600 --> 01:11:15.840
Structures that are used that they that
they plug into somehow. You know,

760
01:11:16.159 --> 01:11:23.479
it'd be very interesting to see if
they plug in different I knew you'd love

761
01:11:23.560 --> 01:11:26.479
this. You know, you're always
looking for the machine parts. I don't

762
01:11:26.520 --> 01:11:30.039
know what the hell those things are. But you know, you know you

763
01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:33.920
may not admit this, but you're
also an anomaloist. You're you're a master

764
01:11:34.039 --> 01:11:39.319
anomalist. I'm That's what I'm in
it for, to find something that we

765
01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:42.680
never even thought we'd possibly find.
Well, it's funny because we were talking

766
01:11:42.720 --> 01:11:45.359
about this is a couple of a
year ago where we were talking about this

767
01:11:45.560 --> 01:11:53.720
under ground tunnel at Tiatia Con and
I was like, how's this water coming

768
01:11:53.760 --> 01:12:00.960
in? And you went out and
found an amazing underground delivery system that they

769
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:03.600
didn't even really talk about, no
one talks about. I mean, thanks

770
01:12:03.640 --> 01:12:06.119
for crediting me, but it was
pretty low hanging fruit. It was just

771
01:12:06.199 --> 01:12:14.520
on on an old Google thing.
It was just I actually I actually quote

772
01:12:14.560 --> 01:12:16.840
you on that. So we'll have
to make sure you don't get in trouble.

773
01:12:16.920 --> 01:12:20.239
So oh, I'm I'm not worried
about I'm my own boss. Nobody

774
01:12:20.239 --> 01:12:24.680
can that's true. That's true.
And as always, Ed, doctor Ed

775
01:12:24.720 --> 01:12:30.079
Barnhardt always great to speak with you, and I think really you bring us

776
01:12:30.159 --> 01:12:35.000
up to date on some of the
latest discoveries of the OMEC. And as

777
01:12:35.039 --> 01:12:40.479
always, if if you want to
check out Ed and his schedule, you

778
01:12:40.479 --> 01:12:45.039
can go to what's the what's the
website for your upcoming tours? Oh they're

779
01:12:45.039 --> 01:12:49.039
all full. Oh they are,
but that's my exploration dot org. And

780
01:12:49.079 --> 01:12:51.840
then the other one that I'm always
wanting to plug. That's why I'm you

781
01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:56.800
know, doing the podcast thing is
my podcast our k o ED. Yeah.

782
01:12:57.079 --> 01:12:59.439
I would love for people to go
there. It's a funny spelling,

783
01:12:59.520 --> 01:13:04.640
it's you know, a eo ed
at the end. So sometimes I did

784
01:13:04.640 --> 01:13:09.680
that archaeology thing where I think everybody
knows how to spell archaeology. Yeah,

785
01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:13.680
check that out. His podcast is
excellent. So yeah, Hey, so

786
01:13:13.720 --> 01:13:17.560
your tours are all filled up for
this year? Yeah? Yeah, you

787
01:13:17.640 --> 01:13:20.920
know, it's taken twenty years,
but apparently I'm popular this year. So

788
01:13:21.039 --> 01:13:25.760
you're going are you going to be
going to Levente again this year? Already

789
01:13:25.760 --> 01:13:30.199
went that was my first one in
March, and then I'm going to Wahaka

790
01:13:30.279 --> 01:13:33.680
totally full then I'm going to Machu
Pichu totally full. In fact, I've

791
01:13:33.680 --> 01:13:38.159
got to take my dad and his
girlfriend. So now it's now I've broken

792
01:13:38.239 --> 01:13:43.359
my my cap, but I can't
sell my daddy can't come. Yeah,

793
01:13:43.760 --> 01:13:47.079
and there one last one to the
patent again to go see Day of the

794
01:13:47.119 --> 01:13:50.479
Dead. There excellent. Yeah,
for those of you listening, Ed will

795
01:13:50.520 --> 01:13:55.840
be taking us on a couple of
tours in twenty twenty five. I'll be

796
01:13:56.119 --> 01:14:00.279
posting that it will come up with
more information. So it's great to have

797
01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:02.920
him on as a tour leader.
And as always, it's great to have

798
01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:08.079
you on the podcast Ed. Thank
you, my friend, and we'll be

799
01:14:08.119 --> 01:14:11.840
in touch absolutely. Thanks for having
me, Cliff, have a good one.

800
01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:18.920
You know. I need to mention
that I've been traveling to Mexico since

801
01:14:19.039 --> 01:14:25.840
nineteen I think the first time I
actually did a personal trip down there was

802
01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:30.760
nineteen ninety five with a girlfriend.
We were in Cancun. I was actually

803
01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:36.479
invited by a native elder that I
had featured in a conference here in San

804
01:14:36.479 --> 01:14:42.960
Francisco. I actually mentioned this in
the book, this new book that my

805
01:14:43.039 --> 01:14:51.760
own controversy, and I was pleasantly
surprised at the size and the sophistication of

806
01:14:53.000 --> 01:14:57.720
the ruins, but I was with
an elder, and that's one perspective.

807
01:14:57.800 --> 01:15:00.439
And I have to say this,
when you travel with an archaeologist, especially

808
01:15:00.439 --> 01:15:05.439
a Mayanist like Ed, they have
a whole different take on it because they've

809
01:15:05.479 --> 01:15:11.920
analyzed it from a scientific point of
view using the scientific methods. So although

810
01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:18.000
I don't always agree on a lot
of the conclusions they reach, it's kind

811
01:15:18.039 --> 01:15:24.880
of fun to have a archaeologist with
you. And this is why I really

812
01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:30.760
urge you to join an Earthy Agin's
tour or your own tours within archaeologist somebody

813
01:15:30.760 --> 01:15:35.319
who's part of the tour to get
their perspective. And I want to mention

814
01:15:35.399 --> 01:15:43.800
this. We have a tour coming
up in twenty twenty five where it is

815
01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:46.199
going to be the Day of the
Dead in October, and I just spoke

816
01:15:46.199 --> 01:15:48.520
to Ed. He's working on the
details right now. But if you can

817
01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:55.319
join us on that tour, he
has added a special dimension which I am

818
01:15:55.479 --> 01:16:00.640
overjoyed to learn about. We'll get
to climb a number of the peers at

819
01:16:00.680 --> 01:16:09.920
Tea Call and most notably the World
Pyramid that John Burke tested uh for frequency

820
01:16:09.960 --> 01:16:15.079
for energy. This thing is just
pulsing with toleric energy, we get a

821
01:16:15.199 --> 01:16:18.600
chance to claim to the top of
it. We'll do a meditative ceremony for

822
01:16:18.640 --> 01:16:24.840
a Day of the Dead, and
we're gonna be plugged in and I don't

823
01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:28.000
know what to expect, but I
think it's going to be just amazing.

824
01:16:28.039 --> 01:16:32.319
When you said an intention, anything
you any access to these ancient places is

825
01:16:32.439 --> 01:16:40.520
opened through the key known as intention, So stay tuned for that. If

826
01:16:40.520 --> 01:16:45.239
you want to join us in uh
In, that's Guatamala, by the way.

827
01:16:45.800 --> 01:16:47.600
We'll be there just for a week, but it's going to be very

828
01:16:47.640 --> 01:16:50.079
intense. We're going to be into
call two days. We're going to be

829
01:16:50.319 --> 01:16:56.880
in a number of other locations for
a period of time, including the world

830
01:16:56.920 --> 01:17:03.159
class museums there, plus a lot
of of food and delicacy and interaction with

831
01:17:03.199 --> 01:17:08.760
the locals which makes it really,
really fun. So send me an email

832
01:17:08.760 --> 01:17:12.439
if you're interested. It's going to
be in October twenty twenty five. Send

833
01:17:12.439 --> 01:17:15.279
it an email to Earth Ancients dot
no, excuse me, Earth Ancients for

834
01:17:15.600 --> 01:17:21.520
you at gmail dot com. And
that's probably going to fill up pretty quickly.

835
01:17:21.840 --> 01:17:26.119
So all of our tours are available, by the way, all the

836
01:17:26.199 --> 01:17:30.279
details on all of our tours are
available at Earth Ancients dot com Forward slash

837
01:17:30.399 --> 01:17:36.399
Tours. Always fun to have Ed
on the program. His perspective is excellent.

838
01:17:38.800 --> 01:17:43.399
You don't forget the upcoming Cosmic Summit
June fifteenth and sixtieth. What a

839
01:17:43.399 --> 01:17:49.399
world class lineup they have, Randallcarlson, Scott Walter, our good friend Pravin

840
01:17:49.520 --> 01:17:54.600
Mohan, and on and on and
on. They got like twenty keynotes that

841
01:17:54.640 --> 01:18:00.000
are really really great. For more
information and details, go to Cosmicsummit dot

842
01:18:00.039 --> 01:18:03.399
com, Forward slash Earth Ancients.
If you can make it, it's in

843
01:18:03.479 --> 01:18:10.479
North Carolina, and they got great
accommodations a lot of it's very reasonably priced.

844
01:18:10.520 --> 01:18:14.000
If you can't make it, the
two day is now one hundred bucks.

845
01:18:14.039 --> 01:18:18.000
The two day streaming audio video.
You get to keep everything, and

846
01:18:18.039 --> 01:18:21.359
if you can't make it, do
the streaming. It's the best way to

847
01:18:21.359 --> 01:18:28.039
see a live presentation from the comfort
of your laptop or your computer or your

848
01:18:28.159 --> 01:18:32.159
TV. So again, Cosmic Summit
June fifteenth and sixteenth. It's going to

849
01:18:32.199 --> 01:18:36.800
be in North Carolina. For more
information, go to Cosmicsummit dot com,

850
01:18:36.840 --> 01:18:45.760
Forward slash Earth Ancients. I do
want to mention that our Turkey Tour is

851
01:18:45.800 --> 01:18:51.640
still filling up or about halfway full. That is going to be the ancient

852
01:18:51.680 --> 01:18:57.119
sites of Turkey, including some of
the new discoveries they found at Go Beckley

853
01:18:57.199 --> 01:19:01.000
Tepi. And what's fun about this
tour is we get a little bit access

854
01:19:01.199 --> 01:19:06.359
that isn't typical for the general public. And this tour is twelve days,

855
01:19:06.600 --> 01:19:14.119
includes darren Kuru, the underground City
Cappadocia, and a number of unique sites

856
01:19:14.119 --> 01:19:19.279
that have recently been discovered and partially
discussed, but not a great deal.

857
01:19:19.720 --> 01:19:27.039
Turkey is extremely old, extremely old, and I haven't been there. I'm

858
01:19:27.079 --> 01:19:30.720
looking forward to it again. It's
going to be August fourteenth to the twenty

859
01:19:30.720 --> 01:19:35.279
fourth. For more information, go
to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash Tours

860
01:19:36.159 --> 01:19:41.920
and check it out. The entire
itinerary is there, but just know that

861
01:19:41.960 --> 01:19:47.399
we are updating it constantly and as
new things open up, we will definitely

862
01:19:47.439 --> 01:19:54.239
be there. So Earth Ancients dot
com Forward slash Tours any questions whatsoever.

863
01:19:54.640 --> 01:19:59.479
So we got two tours left.
We got after Egypt. We have Turkey

864
01:20:00.079 --> 01:20:02.920
in August and then we have the
final tour of the year, which is

865
01:20:02.920 --> 01:20:11.279
in November. It's the Sacred Temples
of Mexico. That's November eighth through the

866
01:20:11.359 --> 01:20:15.960
seventeenth, and that's going to be
a classic because a lot of new stuff

867
01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:19.800
has opened up because of this new
train. They've discovered new sections of ek

868
01:20:19.880 --> 01:20:26.039
Baalam and we're with me Me Wile
Gonzales, who's very very attuned to what's

869
01:20:26.079 --> 01:20:29.960
happening with excavations, and we'll get
to see a lot of stuff. So

870
01:20:30.000 --> 01:20:33.239
whatever you're interested in, come out
and join us Earth Agents dot com,

871
01:20:33.239 --> 01:20:40.920
forward Slash tours. If you have
questions, send me an email at Earth

872
01:20:40.960 --> 01:20:44.159
Ancients for you at gmail dot com
and I'll get right back to you.

873
01:20:45.199 --> 01:20:48.560
Our tours are great and they're very
reasonable, and I make sure they're reasonable,

874
01:20:48.640 --> 01:20:54.000
so check it out. All right, that's it for this program.

875
01:20:54.039 --> 01:20:57.880
I want to thank my guest today, doctor Edwin Barnhardt, coming from Colorado,

876
01:20:58.079 --> 01:21:03.000
United States. Has always a team
of Gil Tour, Mark Foster and

877
01:21:03.159 --> 01:21:09.199
everyone who makes this thing happen.
You guys rock all right, take care

878
01:21:09.239 --> 01:21:12.039
and be well and we will talk
to you next time.