Hey, Hi, come on here and have a seat if you're doing okay
today, Hey, we're we're covering Mexico this week. We're gonna speak on
the Omec, which is a civilization I'm fascinated in learning more about. We
don't know a great deal about the Omec. We know more about dynastic Egyptian
civilizations and sumer and Babylonians. Then even the Dogon people of Africa. We
know more about them than we know about the Omec. And I had a
chance to visit in our last two this past November in Tabasco, Mexico.
We flew in and did a tour with doctor Ed Barnhardt. And Ed is
a Miyais, but as a Miamis, he has a huge interest in the
Omic civilization. And I've always been curious because as an artist, I've studied
the sculptures, not only the big basalt heads that everyone's familiar with. But
my big question is and has been, it really looks like the Olmec.
We're a multi racial civilization and what does that mean? Well, racial types.
We have this African American African centric sculptural appearance, facial structure on these
gigantic twenty ton basalt carvings, most of them, if not all of them,
have headgear or helmets on. And then there's also an Aga or Asian
look and description that you can see on a lot of the statuary, the
figurines, and even on the pottery. And then we get into this other
segment of racial types, which can only be considered Caucasian or European or Eurocentric.
And in many cases a lot of these figures have beards and mustaches,
and they look like somebody you would see in the United States, a white
boy with a beard and a mustache. And you know, I have studied
this, and I have questions. And there's a number of turn of the
century scientists, anthropologists, I guess you could even call them early archaeologists who
are puzzled by this. And a number of books came out, most notably
by a guy named Alexander van weather No or he was known as Professor weather
No who came to Mexico in the early nineteen hundreds and began studying and teaching
there in Mexico and came out with two books, and the most well known
of his books is called Unexpected Faces in Ancient America fifteen hundred BC to fifteen
hundred AD, and he began going and collecting artifacts and checking out museums,
and in his book he highlights these racial types and wonders where they came from.
In fact, the sculptures that you see in his book are identical to
sculptures you see and racial types you see in Africa, in Europe and China,
in Japan and so forth and so on. And you know we're gonna
hear from Ed today on his take on it, but I'll tell you right
off, they just don't go for the diffusion. They don't go for a
traditional archaeologists, university archaeologists believe that this is the typical racial type. The
Native Mexicans are are of this, they have these features. So I don't
know what to do on that one. I tend to disagree simply because and
of course I'm not an expert. It's just my point of view. When
I was first going to when I was first going to Mexico, and I
was in the Yucatan Peninsula because it's so close to northern California, I remember
in a museum in Cankun, it's the can Kun Historical Museum, History museum.
They had a number of figurines wearing kimonos, and that is that direct
lineage to Japan. And we don't see those sculptures because in America those are
edited out of the narrative. But in Mexico, and this is why I
urge you to either join Earth Ancients tours because we go to these museums,
or when you're visiting Mexico, locate these museums and look at the figures,
look at the pottery, look at the sculpture because it's not edited. They
haven't taken artifacts out of the museum that are questionable that lead us to wonder,
wait a minute, this is something's going on here. So you know,
as much as I appreciate the archaeological perspective because they're giving us some groundwork,
I think they need to look at the details of these racial types a
little closer, and specifically the OMEC, because they were really capturing these racial
types in their sculptures and their statuary, even in their altars. Their altars
are wonderful and I'll be posting a group of altars on the Earth Ancients Facebook
page a few days after this is this air. So I want to play
a short clip from an interview Graham Hancock did on the on the strange civilization
known as the Omech. I have a quick listen. It's considered to be
the earliest high culture of Central America. Everybody's heard about the Aztecs, everybody's
heard about the Maya. But before the Aztecs and before the Maya, there
were a culture who are referred to as the Olmechs. Again, we don't
know what they called themselves. That's what the Aztecs called them. They called
them the Olmecs, and it means the rubber people because they that rubber producing
area of Mexico. They worked in giant megalithic constructions. That what they're most
famous for is these huge carved human heads which can be honest scale of up
to twenty to twenty five tons in weight and which have curious features which have
been interpreted variously as Polynesian African don't look like classic Native American features. But
one of the things, one of the things I've realized is that there is
no classic Native American feature. That Native Americans are have a very complex genetic
story with very many different elements brought into it, and we shouldn't be necessarily
surprised by the supposedly non native American look stonework. There's another fascinating figure from
Laventa, one of the Omech sites, which is the earliest ever image of
a plumed or feathered serpent. The feathered serpent is a famous icon in Central
America, Quetzalcoatl, who's the god of peace, the bringer of civilization.
Now, if you don't have Gram's first book, Fingerprints of the Gods,
if you're new to Earth, the Ageans, if you're new to the different
perspectives on our history or the alternative or the anomalies of ancient Earth, that
first book, Fingerprints of the Gods, is one for your library. It's
huge, it's over I think it's about five hundred pages. But it gives
you a hint of what was of interest to Graham over twenty years ago.
And I remember here in northern California when he came to Berkeley, when it
was a little bookstore. He came and did a talk. It was wonderful,
it was refreshing because a lot of us have questions about our history.
We don't believe the narrative or the narratives incomplete. That's the bigger problem.
And in my writing in this new book to my controversy, I have a
chat on what we see, how we interpret things. And my belief is
if you are going to school, if you are forced to read one hundred,
one hundred and fifty year old books as the foundations of an anthropologist,
you are getting trained to see things in a particular manner, and it's very,
very hard to see that outside of the box unless you're an independent Now.
I do appreciate Ed Barnhardt and other archaeologists who are on our program because
for the most part, not all, they don't have to follow an academic
perspective. They can have the training, they can get their credential, and
then they can go out and independently do research, do work. There's a
lot of very well known archaeologists who are not affiliated with any college or school
or institution who are making some significant discoveries. One of these is doctor Paulette
Steves, who's a Canadian archaeologist who's redating settlements in the United States North America
to tens of thousands of years much earlier. It's opening up a whole new
field of study, and this is what we need. So today's program is
the Mystery of the Omic and my guest is doctor Edwin Barnhardt. We do
a lot of different tours each year, and each of them is designed for
a different experience. But one of my favorite tours and one that we haven't
done in a few years, is the Sacred Temples of Mexico. This is
going to be held November eighth to the seventeenth. It is an opportunity not
only to experience some of the oldest Mayan ruins in the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico,
but also we have special permission not only to walk through these sacred temples,
but also climb pyramids. And there's a number of unique locations where we
can do this. One is Mayapan ushmo Ekbalam, and there's a few others
that will add to the itinerary. To learn more about this tour, go
to Earthancients dot com forward slash Tours you'll get all the information. Again,
it's November eighth through the seventeenth, one week of an amazing experience and very
very special. I hope you'll join me. I was fortunate to be with
doctor ed Barnhard this past November to visit Tabasco, Mexico. This is the
home of the Omec a place called Levanta, And not only was I pleasantly
surprised by the sculptures, which are fabulous, but there are a lot of
artifacts or a lot of other things regarding this very odd culture that came to
light during that tour. And I've invited Ed back to talk a little bit
about the Olmec. Of course, Ed is the classic Mayanist, and I
always love this term Mayanists. What does that mean? Well, not only
is the miserable American focus, but under the tuolage of Linda Sheeley, he's
z rode in on these unusual cultures. So Ed, we're gonna twist in
the screws a little bit today and get you to spill it on the on
the Olemec. So I hope you don't mind too much. Ready, ready
and willing. There's a lot to talk about. There's a lot we don't
know about the Olemech. They appear and I just looked at this around seventeen
hundred BC, and that's the very remote rudimentary discoveries, right is that?
What do we know about that early date? It is interesting when you look
at just you know, textbooks or Google. That's I mean, that's absolutely
right. I'd say, you know, probably eighteen hundred, but it's a
question of scale, like how much Olmec stuff so at that date, really
what what's indicating that date is a much smaller community that's found at the bottom
levels of what become larger Olmec communities. So we've got San Lorenzo that has
definitely you know, eighteen hundred BCE is probably the start. And then very
nearby that we have a fascinating place called Elmanate. And Elmanate was kind of
a bog so everything preserved there. There are stone there are wooden statues,
and there are skeletons, which is very rare in the Olmec world, but
those all date from the earliest of those date to seventeen hundred or so,
So we definitely have an Olemec presence. If not for Elmanate, we some
people, most conservative folks, would say like, well, are we sure
they're Olmec or not, But Elmanate has preserved wooden statues that are clearly Olmec.
So they have the Olmec's style of carving as that you're suggesting Omec style,
and the people they Olmec tend to show males as bald with kind of
elongated, like uh, deformed heads, and that's exactly the statues from there
are that weird. Hey, you know you just said something that I have
not heard in this one of my questions, which is, have we found
an Olemechs skeleton of a king, of a queen, of a ruler or
someone noted like we find in some of these Maya toombs, We actually have,
you know, I thought, and I was under the perception that we
had very few Olemechs skeletons. But I'm right now working on a lecture series
for the on the Olmec for a company. That's another thing. But I've
really done a deep dive into not just you know, the coffee table books,
but the reports from these sites. Yeah, and I am both excited
and frustrated by how many Olemechs skeletons there actually are. Whoa and uh not
analyzed. I mean I just took a trip through the area and there are
places they're on display, they're not hidden away, but the reports talk about
where they're from. There are like in that sight Almanite, I was just
talking about, there's something like a dozen baby skeletons. They thought at first
that they were monkey skeletons, but no, they're they're human babies, and
that all these big sites Leventa, Uh, there are definitely burials, but
some of those the bones have been dissolved from the acidic soils, but not
all of them. There are a couple of bundles that have there. There
was one in complex A in Leventa that had two bundled individuals good enough where
they could say that they were adult males. So there actually are a lot
of skeletons, and I want people to analyze those with some of our modern
techniques. Yeah. I was curious when you said that, because in a
lot of their sculptures they portray there are people with these elongated heads and very
asiatic features, and I would love to see the cranium of an adult male
or female to see if that's something that is typical for their culture. Of
the things that I've seen so far, I didn't see any skulls that were
elongated like that. There's one on display at the museum in Trecepote's, but
it had a normal head. I'm pretty sure I've got the pictures of it.
So not everybody in ol Mech society had that elongated head. In fact,
the famous colossal heads that are you know, signature Olemech stuff. If
you look at those, maybe one of them from Leventa looks like he has
an elongated head, but the rest of them are very round and normal.
So those that we presume are kings, they didn't have elongated heads. It
may well be that that was a practice restricted to the priestly class I mean
headbinding to yeah, yeah, okay. The Omech, to my mind and
you as who have probably obviously have studied it a lot more, seem to
me one of these very strange cultures that appear almost complete. In other words,
they have a mathematic, a clindrical system, perhaps, a science,
science, and medicine that all appear fairly well established. Now, if I
talk to Richard Hanson and Elmador and I say that to him, he'll take
me way back to some diggings and say, well, yes and no.
But at the same situation with the Olmec that, I mean, how do
you see them as an emerging people? Well, I do think that there's
an evolution, and I think that it's a very very common misconception that the
books on the internet give us that they showed up with that whole package as
you just described. But actually we have an Olmec period which goes basically from
eighteen hundred to four hundred BC, and in that period there is no writing,
there is no calendar. There is excellent art, and you can see
the evolution of architecture getting bigger and bigger, but the art or the writing
and the calendar really don't start until about four hundred BC, and by then
archaeologists call them a different culture, we call them epi Olmec. I think
they're putting hairs there. I think they're still fully omech people that just all
of a sudden learned writing and calendar. But even that, we see kind
of an interplay between the Maya region and the Zapatec region and the Olmec region,
where they're all kind of playing around with more more complex iconography and symbolism,
and that seems to coalesce into the writing system and the calendar. I'm
not sure how long it was around, but you know, once you start
carving it in stone, you've been thinking about it for a while. Yeah,
But do we see the astronomy in the same manner that we see the
emergence of astronomy in Maya culture. In other words, there's no observatories that
we know of in anything in Omec world, is there not that we can
detect. The trouble is that the Omec, for whatever reasons, built all
of their buildings out of packed earth, and that is weathered terribly. So
you know, a lot of the buildings that were up on top of these
massive platforms they built have have eroded, or another weird thing about them is
that they've been buried. The stuff at San Lorenzo is ridiculously deep. It's
meters deep up over the current platform, so it got you know what,
the Olmec must have buried that. So in the process they probably destroyed a
lot of the buildings that were there. So we have, like we have
a big palace at the top of San Lorenzo, but it's actually also five
meters down or so, so that preserved, but we don't have a lot
of Olemec buildings to go on. That's another question that's very odd to me
because I've seen and I think Sterling, who was one of the guys that
was digging up the heads and digging into some of their cities, found these
extensive sewer and waterways that were underground that were very sophisticated carved in stone.
But we don't see stone buildings or pyramids. I mean, do you know
of a location where there's a true mctemple? Not really, I mean no.
We have ideas that the earthen ones functioned in that way, but they
didn't preserve because they weren't of stone, and they certainly could have built them
in stone. So this was this was a conscious choice they made. I
mean, through the research I've been doing over the last couple of months,
I can now confidently say that the Olmec transported hundred, you know, thousands
of tons of stone material, both from the volcanoes, but also tons of
greenstone from the mountains to the south of them. So they were they were
absolutely capable of getting the stone to build the buildings in stone. They chose
not to. Okay, that was my next question is do we have noted
Quarries and Leventa San Lorenzo or any of these major sites where they're extracting stone
for stone masonry. They are actually all of those sites have there. Their
local stone is sandstone, and there's an abundance of it. They can use
it in fact they do. It's that's another one that just never shows up
in books because they're all salt licks now. But if you actually go to
the museum at the site of Leventa. You and I went to Park Leventa
where they took the nice basalt ones to that part. But when you go
to the site itself, there's another three things that might be more heads.
They're gigantic, they're like three four meters tall, but they're made of sandstone,
and they're they're unreadable. They're so eroded you can you I'm not even
sure whether it's a steeler or ahead. They're they're strange that they're standing right
there in the museum. So they they had sandstone, they could have built
things out of sandstone and stuff goed over them to protect it from erosion,
but they didn't. I read a couple of years ago that there was a
great need, and I think it was in San Lorenzo for some serious ground
penetrating radar studies, because as you have alluded to, most of their buildings
are either partially or completely underground, and these waterworks are very sophisticated, but
they're they're not really visible unless part they're partially shows so as a society,
as a culture at their height, and you're saying around four one hundred to
five hundred BC, they were really fairly sophisticated, aren't weren't they? Absolutely,
that water management technology is very sophisticated, and it goes on for hundreds
of meters. There's a whole system of it that's mostly centered around that Red
Palace and it was all buried. There's you know, I also had a
misconception that once the Olemech left that nobody ever showed up again. That's not
true, and it's part of our problem. There are classic period cities sitting
on top of the pier of the huge platform at San Lorenzo. This gigantic
platform that stands fifty meters tall, is over a kilometer long, But on
top of it, a classic period community came and they buried all of that
Olemech architecture and put their own city on top of it. So that's part
of the challenge of excavating the olemechs stuff at San Lorenzo, that there's this
huge classic period community that buried it and built on top of it. Oh,
that's a real problem. That's not only is it a problem because we
don't know is what, but there's probably a lot of or has been confusion
as to what's what they're well and it's a worry to me because they could
have moved all of the Olmec stuff, probably did, so where we think
these heads are is it's it's very possible that they're not where they started.
It seemed at first, I think, you know, early archaeologists like Matt
Sterling made you know, blanket assumptions that well, no, I mean,
it's a twenty ton monument. Nobody moved that. Well, A they moved
it to there, and B if they moved it once, they could move
it again. If they could move it an inch, they could move it
a mile. There are two that the three big classic Olmec sites with heads
are Leventa, San Lorenzo and tray Seppotees. Right, And I was just
looking at tray Cipotees. It's a fascinating site that it's actually mostly Epiolmec.
A lot of the texts and calendars come from Tracippotees, but it was buried
by a flood and by ash and by humans. The Olemec layer is like
twenty feet down, but twenty feet down, and so magnetometers helped to find
the basalt stuff, but it doesn't help with the sandstone stuff. But anyway,
the two heads that come from tracippotees, they were clearly moved by the
epiol Mech people. The Epiolmech people made four groups at the site, and
they all look almost identical. There's a big pyramid on the west side,
and there's a long platform on the north side, and two of those four
have an Olmec head on a stone platform in the middle of those plazas.
But the Epiolmec built those plazas, not the Olmec, which means clearly the
o Neck people that came in centuries after a volcano kind of closed the ole
Neck one for business, and like a century or maybe three later at bi
ole Neck reinhabited the site and they moved those two heads. They took them
up and put them in new plazas, both facing north. So that's sagnifying
the ancients. They're saying, yeah, that's the conclusion is that it was
you know, it's an image of our ancestors and it'll be right here in
this elite complex. But the disturbing thing is they moved it and if they
moved it, where did they move it from the assumption is that they moved
it from the lower levels of tray suppotees. But since we know that that
San Lorenzo and Leventa moved heads, you know, seventy eighty kilometers away,
who's to say those heads aren't from Leventa. When Leventa fell at four hundred
and and tray suppote starts up again right about then, who's to say they
didn't actually just pack up two heads and haul them over there. Mm hmm.
It's it's disturbing, I mean, we we it's things like that that
you know. Once again, I think archaeology might just be very, very
wrong about the assumptions we're making. Well, you need to get more bodies
there to scan and to use equipment. This I think you said, was
it? What did you just say that it was four hundred BC or there
was a war that wiped out the prevailing Ulmec. We don't know that it
was the war. We just know that, uh, you know, the
primal city at that time was Leventa, and at Leventa it's a band.
The whole city's abandoned at four hundred BCE and why do we think it was.
But I mean, why would they leave the city. We don't really
know. I mean, you know, it could be climactic, it could
be religiously founded, it could have been you know a number of things.
There's no sign of attack, there's no sign of rebellion, and those things
were pretty good at you know, when a city burns, that's good for
archaeology. We can see the ashes. I think I mentioned this to you
when I first met you, that we've had Richard Hanson on a number of
times. His belief was that the early Maya were contemporaries of the OMEC.
That's number one and the other thing, and he's still I don't know.
I haven't seen any papers written by him on this theory. And you may
know what I'm talking about, but it's his belief that the these Maya ward
against the OMEC and were fairly destructive in their campaigns against them. So but
he doesn't I don't remember the specific date that he gives in that war.
And I'm just curious about your feelings on his hypothesis on this big war and
the high level Maya culture living at the same time, because the reason I
say that is that everyone believes that the Omec are the mother culture of the
Maya, and this is changing now, this whole idea of that is changing.
So I do agree with the first half of that that the Maya and
the Olmec were contemporaries and grew up in parody along with the people of the
Valley of Mexico and the people of the Valley of Wahaka. Now Hansen works
in El Mirador, I don't really see those guys fitting into the puzzle so
much. The interaction that we see between Olmec and Maya people is the Maya
people of what the region called the Silka Nusco, which is the Pacific coast
between Guatemala and what's now Chiappus. The whole lot of evidence that those ones
are interacting back and forth. I don't know whether you know it's high civilization
at that point down in the Maya area, but they're definitely interacting. But
as far as a war, you know, unless the Olmec just rolled over
and showed showed their belly every time, I don't think that we can say
that because I've again, I've just taken a deeper dive than ever into the
art and the artifact record of these Olmec sites, and a fascinating thing is
that there are no show, no signs of any kind of war depicted on
any of their monuments. And I went through the whole corpus of I've got
this big thing here, I'll show you. I've been lugging this stupid book
around for this. Look, my god, twenty pounds. This is the
whole artifact records of Co's digging at San Lorenzo. Oh, Michael Cole,
Yeah, oh okay, volume thing. And it's got pictures of all the
artifacts they found and everything. You know how many possible uh spearheads are in
that whole corpus? Five wow? Five the Omec. We're not fighting with
anybody, not with themselves, and they certainly didn't exalt it in any of
their monuments. I have been looking and looking and looking for any image of
the Olmec holding a weapon or a shield or wearing armor. Nothing. The
first time it shows up is it trace Suppotda's when they turn epi Olmec.
That's the very first monument. But what is this part of the world.
What's the definition of Epiolmec? Is that meaning that the they're restarting. Is
that a term to restore? Aren't? Or you don't know what happened before
that? It's uh, it's a weird term. I wish that someone whoever
coined it it picked something else. It makes them sound lesser or but it
is the it's post Olmec. The division line is really about the writing and
the calendar. All of a sudden, the monuments of that region start involving
hieroglyphs and calendar glyphs. And they had never meant they had never shown that
at all. There's a little bit there that you and I saw in Leventa
Park, those couple of glyphs on the traveler that look like they might be
glyphs oh three in front of him that say there's that that hang ten footprint
behind him, and then the ones that might say lord and rain, oh
God. But those are the I mean, you know, we can't say
that they they were literate with lifts total. We're coming back to your quote
that I use with a lot of different people, which is we only have
one percent of these places excavated, if that, and it's like total guesswork.
That's why I've always I've always challenged when I read a book about the
Maya. It's like, well, how accurate is this data? Well,
you know, I think that you know, I've ceased losing sleep over that
matter that you know, we just what we have to do is responsibly remind
ourselves that all of this is theoretical. It's not just made up. You
know, the best theories are based on the evidence we have at our disposal,
but none of it should be couched as truth at this point. It's
all working theories. That's so refreshing to hear from you, Ed, And
I wish more in the archaeological community would be as upfront and is open about
the fact that, you know, we're just still working at figuring this stuff
out. You know, well, you know, my colleagues and I are
compelled to make up good stories so that people give us money to continue our
work. All right, here's one for you that I find totally fascinating.
I don't think we've had a conversation about it. And this is what I
believe is the multi cultural, actually multi racial attributes that we see in the
artwork of the OMEC. I see African centric, I see Asian centric,
I see Caucasian. I also see and we see more of this in the
Maya. We see long heads that appear to be naturally this way and not
necessarily headbound. But we're focusing on the Omech. Do you believe that the
Omec were multi racial? No? No, I do not, Jesus Christ,
Okay, you got why not? Well, because the people who live
in that Region's let's separate it out. We got African looking guys, we
got Asian looking guys. Right, Let's start with the African looking guys.
Right, Let's give the example the basalt heads, the basalt heads, the
ones that they call the colossal heads, seventeen of them that we have.
They look very African. They have wide noses and thick lips. And I
mean, I agree they look African. The reason I do not believe they're
African is because I travel through that region and meet people who live there today,
and they have wide noses and thick lips. There was just this last
I guess it was March, so yeah, last month, I brought a
group to this little visited museum in Santiago Tousche in the Tushla Mountains, right
in between where San Lorenzo and Leventon and Trace Ponte Sorr it's that those mountains
are where the stone was quarried. Oh and I got our, I got
us there a little early. We were kind of hanging around in the plaza
looking at the biggest of the heads, called lach Corbata. And when the
museum finally opened, it was the guard who opened the door. And he
was a big guy for the region. He was like six foot tall,
a little bit taller than me. But his face was absolutely the faces on
those those colossal heads. He had the wide nose and the thick lips.
I mean, he was an absolute picture off of those heads. And there's
a lot of people in that region who look that way. It is a
it is a physical trait of the folks that live in the isthmus of Tauantepec
that they look that way. But as an anthropologist, when do you say
this is a possibility of migration from Africa at the very earliest part, and
that these individuals that you're looking at are descendants from this African race that came
well, you know, not just by their facial characteristics. I would also
strongly need that tawny hair, you know, that that kind of curly hair
that that Africans and also to a lesser degree Aboriginal Australians have. Yeah,
none of that is anywhere there. We have, of course, you know,
the modern DNA database. A lot of people in that region have been
tested, the modern people, and they are clearly American Indian. And we
do have, you know, even though we don't have many skeletons, we
do have two skeletons that were actually DNA studied from San Lorenzo. They were
found, you know, less than a decade ago. Yeah, and both
of those came back really strongly Native American. But really, I mean honestly,
yes, okay, we have two skeletons, but it would be nice
to have a whole volume of data that would pin this to local Oh.
Absolutely agreed. Though, you know, let me let me counterpoint you of
you know, you cannot take a stone image carved by a person as proof
good enough to suggest something as amazing as colonization from Africa. I mean,
we need more to go on than a pretty face, obviously. Yeah,
we're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves,
and we will return shortly with my guest today, doctor Edwin Barnhardt.
We'll be right back My guest today is field archaeologist doctor Edwin Barnhardt. We've
been with ed now for over a year. He's a regular contributor to Earth
Ancients. We just got back from a tour of Tabasco, Mexico, and
got a chance to see some of these amazing Omec sculptures. But there's so
much we don't know about this civilization, and Ed's helping us understand this culture
a little bit better. Let's go to the Asian side of it. Now
I see it from I mean this is with Maya too, and I've been
visiting there for over twenty years, Mexico and seeing the Maya insights in the
museums. It's almost a dominant racial characteristic to have these Asiatic individuals in their
pottery and the sculpture and the figurines. It's everywhere, and when it comes
to the Omech, it's I've had people that we've had on the show say
that there are a group of scientists in China who say that the Omech come
from an early race in China. Now, I haven't gotten any I haven't
found I'm not a researcher, so I haven't gotten in I am a researcher,
but I haven't gotten in and found white paper that conclusively states this fact.
But when I hear this, I have to wonder, is it just
someone just spouting off or do you have any evidence of an early voyage from
mainland China into the Americas and then a migration that eventually turns into the Olemec.
Well, I do not have any any evidence of a migration like that,
and we'd be targeting I guess, you know, four thousand years ago,
not forty thousand years ago. I know, I know there's some some
talk about, you know, in China's more recent history, they had a
huge fleet of ships, and it's definitely in the possibility that they hit California
or even Mexico at that point, but that would be later than the Olmec.
But we can say again, you know, it's a brave new world.
With these DNA studies. We used to just be able to say,
well, we'll agree to disagree, But with the DNA studies, we now
know that Native Americans are definitely of Asian phenotype. We know that the DNA
is backing up the idea that the migrations of people into the Americas be they
you know, we used to think it was twelve thousand years ago. Now
it's more like thirty thousand years ago. And now the nutjobs are the ones
that say that it's sixty thousand years ago. And we'll just wait for the
other shoe to drop for those not be as crazy as they sound right now.
But we've got all of the lines of evidence point to a migration,
regardless of its time period, from Asia. So we have a deep,
you know, genetic link to all Native American populations to Asia and Maya.
I know, you know, I have friends that I've grown up with around
there, and I've seen their babies. And interesting thing that you've got to
be a friend with Amaya to see is that their babies are born with the
Mongolian spot at the base of their spine. It's this kind of birthmark that
that is very very typical in Asia. All all the cultures of Asia and
the Maya also have it. The spot goes away within like the first year
or two of life. That's a spot, a spot that's a rudimentary it's
right at the base of their spine and it's kind of it looks like a
birthmark. It's not like you know, a perfect circle. It's kind of
like a splat. That's a you know, a snout like a snowflake.
No, no, two kids, Mongolian spot is the same. But it's
there. It's a little discolored piece right at the base of the spine.
And you got to see, you know, some you gotta be good enough
friends with the Maya for them to show you their babies take it. But
but but it's there, and uh, and so there is Asian stock.
And that makes me think I'm gonna challenge you, uh, Cliff, go
back through all those cool books behind you and look at all the places that
it looks the most Asian to you in olmec art And I bet you what
you're gonna find is the ones that you think are the most Asian are the
ones we call chubby babies. They're mostly the baby ones. And their eyes
are kind of slanted like their Chinese and their lips are downturned, and but
they are fat babies. And to my mind, to my my theory on
that is that the omech A showing this kind of you know, opulent,
welve fed baby look and their sculpture. You talk about their sculptures, right,
sculptures, the sculptures, and not just the sculpt more the the the
ceramics, the ceramics of people that are chubby and sitting there with their bald
head. Those are the ones that I mean, if you look at the
arguments for the Asian thing, they're they're all they're always focused on those those
babies and uh and again very fat Maya babies look very Asian when they get
when their faces get fat, it they're they're They're Asian phenotype comes out.
So I I think it's all. I think it's all very explainable. So
are you saying that with this Asian migration it was just through the Baring Strait,
that you don't have any belief of any migrations through waterways like the Pacific
or Atlantic Ocean. No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying I'm saying
that it's from Asia for sure. Yeah. I do not see enough evidence
to say that they island topped across Oceania. But I do think it makes
the old idea of the ice corridor that they slipped through this little place in
Canada and came down to North America by foot. Yeah, it seems silly
and overworked to me. I think the logical thing would be that they had
canoes. They were coastal people, they had boats, and they made much
faster progress down the coast all the way into South America than this ice corridor
theory. That is pretty much. I mean, I think probably more than
half of my colleagues now have put the ice corridor theory bed or at least
not the only way that people made through. Sure, maybe some people walked,
but I think that they shot down the coast. I think these were
seafaring people that they vast progress down the coast and then filtered inland in the
places that they stopped. So, if they're coming down to the coast front
to Mexico to Pacific side, where are they originating from? Are they coming
up from South America or down from North America? The original ones are coming
down from Alaska from that crossing in the Bearing Street. Oh they're coming,
that's a Oh, that's the hell of a boat. Right, those are
the first ones. But if now we can see that you know, it's
thirty thousand years ago, not twelve thousand years ago, then we've got enough
time depth to say, you know, the first groups came down starting thirty
thousand years ago, and they made it all the way to South America,
and then ten thousand years later those guys to go north, and so you
know, you could see, I could see where the migration overall patterns are
much more complicated than just a one off and then they entered the Americas.
There could have with the time depth we now believe, there's plenty of time
for a culture to have grown up in South America for ten thousand years and
then moved back north up into Mexico to influence them. Yeah, you made
a good point earlier in our discussion a Chinese coming to California. I think
they found anchors off of the coast of the Catalina Islands that are attributed to
or they had the same style as early Chinese mariners, so that may have
been a starting point and then coming down further. I'm curious about diffusion,
and this is a real problem when we start talking about the high level of
high degree of advancement when it comes to astronomy, mathematics, and clindical studies,
which the OMEC were brilliant at. Do we think they had their own
R and D development where they came out of nowhere and just started putting out
calendars or did they inherit because their calendars are pretty sophisticated, you know,
we see them on their steely the standing markers. But where do we think
that originates. I think they invented them. When they invented them is a
question, and whether the Maya did or whether the zapitect did. I think
that there was a there was an R and D, and there was probably
you know, annual conferences too with guys that were the you know, the
top thinkers of those societies getting together and talking about things. It's you know,
it's a hard thing to get at. The Mesoamerican calendar is so different
than the calendars of like the Phoenicians or even the Chinese, that there's not
a lot of logical A to B thinking that we can do about, you
know, suggesting that they got their calendar from either, you know, the
either the side of the Atlantic or the Pacific. I think it was an
original thought and that it began with this two hundred and sixty day calendar that
involves twenty day names in thirteen numbers. There's an interesting thing that just that
Takeshi and Omada is doing with the Olmec, you know, he just did
that incredible lidar study where he found the PLU two hundred platforms. But the
another part of that study, that same study that I was keyed in on,
was the rec ignition that a lot of these long north south oriented platforms
have twenty small buildings on top of them. He's seen the pattern in a
couple of them, and his suggestion is that that twenty is about the twenty
day names, and that it's an indicator that even back in those Olmec times,
even though they weren't putting it on monuments, they were still functioning.
They were still using that two hundred and sixty day calendar. Yeah, I
mean a mata is not what is he suggesting? Those are omech or are
they Mayasyites? Well, the one Aguada phoenix he's been saying is a Mayasite
for a while. But I just saw a lecture from him on the Internet
where he looks like he's coming around. I mean, he's getting just it's
just too much. After he found, you know, exactly the same platform
two hundred times to the west in the Omec area, he's beginning to finally
come around that that's that's not Maya, that's all. You know. The
one thing that's funny about his research is when he did a ground study where
he dug into one of the platforms and the different layers go way way way
back. But the funny thing about it is they look like load bearing layers,
like they were made for heavy weight of some kind. Has he come
up with any any follow up theories on why they would do that. I
haven't heard of anything like that. I mean, I know, if you
want your building to stand, you're going to have to build it well.
And the testimony is that it's still there, so they did do the job
well. But he has found one of the things that make him resistant to
name Aguada Phoenix, which is very much east of any olemic thing we knew
previously. He's found absolutely no basalt statues, in fact, no big statues
of any kind at that site, which is admittedly a disconnect. And the
ceramics he's found in the excavations are much more strongly Maya, which I find
more explainable because it's on the border between the old Mech lands and the in
the Maya lands, so that having Maya ceramics at a Maya border does not
make you know that's no more strange than all the Mexican ceramics at the Texas
border. But they're all dated around pre Dynastic. MAYA correct that? Oh
yeah, yes, before the Classic period. Sure, it's it's pre Classic
and in fact contemporaneous with the transition between right about a thousand BCE, Lorenzo
San Lorenzo falls and levent A rises and a Guada Phoenix starts right in that
time period. Okay, have we found any steely of the ole Mech that
lists a noted king, ruler, queen, or anyone of importance in the
recent history? Well, I'm keen on the word list, in other words,
describing a ruler. No, we have, no, we have.
That's a that's a misunderstanding that we should put to bed right here. There
is no Olmec writing. There is epi Olmec writing that starts about four hundred
BCE, really, but from eighteen hundred to four hundred we have zero,
zero Olmec writing. There is none. So you're saying it's a development period
up until four hundred BC. Well, if you consider them undeveloped until they
start writing, yes, but I mean they did make you know, a
couple of platforms that were a kilometer long. That's that's that's fairly developed,
in my opinion. Don't we have any writing, not writing, but carving
of notation on astronomical events from the Olmec prior to for litally not? I
think that, you know, and I don't. I think that probably certain
things that we can read lump in Olmec and epiol Mac. But archaeology makes
a clear division between Olmec and EPIOLMC, and it's only Epiolmec that are making
texts of any kind, be them textual or calindrical, ok, mathematical.
So we could say that from one thousand BC to four thousand BC it was
a development period. And up until very recently the decade ago, everybody thought
that the Omech were the mother culture to the Maya and handed over their clindrical
studies, their sciences and whatever. So that's a hell of a fast appearance
of sophistication. Do what you say, it's certainly an invention. It's certainly
an invention, and we are probably almost always missing pieces of the puzzle,
you know. I'd say, in general, what frustrates me about Mesoamerica versus
say, Egypt or Mesopotamia is the environment only preserves certain things, and by
the time something's carved in stone, that is a well thought out project.
You know, the in quneiform. We have those those clay tablets that lasted
forever, So we have the you know, the vital information of the development
process. We have like people who wrote crappy poems and people who are bad
mathematicians who actually put things in quneiform, and we have them. So we
see a progression of people getting better and better and then perfecting things. We're
in Mesuo America. All we have are the perfected project. The development stuff
was probably on more perishable medium that we don't have. So you're saying that
in the Olmec world, we haven't found any part of me with writing,
any kind of a language or even early symbology in any of their artifacts.
No, well, there's symbolism. There's certainly, you know, iconography there.
It's it's a it's a rich corpus and we debate on you know,
what these things mean. In fact, there are some of some of my
colleagues believe there's a whole Olmec pantheon of gods that we can identify through this
kind of iconography. It's not writing per se. You know that there's a
bit of a snobbery when it comes to defining writing. For linguists, it
has to reflect human speech. So if it's not reflecting the human word,
if it's not something I can look at and sound out, then it's an
Then it's iconography. If it's something that I can read and actually speak as
I'm looking at the symbols, that's writing. If it's not that, then
it's iconography or symbolism. But there's a rich body of Olmec symbolism that art
history thinks we know all sorts of things about. You know, it was
so great to go to Leventa to see these sculptures up closer for personal One
of the things I didn't get a chance to ask you one of the other
guests probably did. But what form of tool would they have to cut basalt
stone, one of the hardest stones in the world, and to make it
so smooth and rounded to uh sculpture these faces in these these rocks. I
mean, well, they weren't using still right, they weren't using copper.
What were they using? Harder stone that's or stone that's of an equal hardness,
But they've created it properly. We believe it's a lot of a lot
of hammer stones and a lot of like jadeite is a very hard stone,
and you could there's lots of axe heads and kind of thick owls that we
find in the artifact record, So we think they're doing it with just harder
stone. And the fine work is actually probably done with obsidian. I know,
hard obsidian is is very brittle, but it's also very hard. If
you use it nice and slow and you're an expert, you can cut into
basalt fairly easily. But you just got to know what you're doing. You
got to make the tool right, and they do exhaust you'd have to go
through a lot of tools. But yeah, and for this, so the
for the finer work, like you know that the actual pupils of the eyes
of those those colossal heads, those those are probably finished off with obsidian.
Did Sterling ever find like what you could consider an artist's studio with these artifacts
and heads and stuff? I mean, I've seen pictures of him, you
know, standing over the partially exposed head of one of these basalt heads.
But did he find something more tangible, like a like a studio with those
artifacts and things? Sterling never did. No. Sterling was very much involved
in the city center and crafting romantic stories for National Geographic who was paying his
bills. But we do have there there is what they call a recycling artist
workshop at on the top of San Lorenzo, right next to the Red Palace.
There's a place where they're obviously recycling old, older basalt monuments into smaller,
newer ones. We've also identified a couple of quarries at the at the
Tuschela Mountains and we find some half made statues there, so that's actually really
interesting. There's there's ones that it's the evidence there points to both the big
altars and the heads are being kind of rough made without their details there at
the quarry and then transported and final details are created at the sites. Okay,
as we get to the end of this, do we have any decipherment
that gives us a sense of this as to the almoss yearning to know about
the stars, astronomy and calendars and cycles and things like that. Is there
any idea that we have found where someone's saying, Okay, we need to
look into this constellation, or we need to look into this star system or
something. Oh you know, we are still struggling to figure out a lot
of olmec astronomical knowledge. I do. Actually, there there's a there's a
wave that's coming through right now that's about the Milky Way. And I really
like this research, and it's it's pairing up with stuff that's happening in North
America. There's a there's a colleague of mine named William Romayne who's been doing
some really fascinating work about Mississippian sites lining up to the Milky Way in its
north south orientation. Oh, you mean the mountain mound builders. Yeah,
the mound builders. He's at Kahokia and Angel Mound and he's still going it
might also be in the Hope. Well, there are these things. There
are these alignments that are just slightly off north south, which I've always ignored
because they're you know, east west is where things are rising and setting.
But he's come up with this idea that kind of based on an idea that
I had thirty years ago. My research is coming back around about how important
the Milky Way is to everyone in the New World. But all those OLEMC
platforms are oriented about six to eight degrees off north south, and the Milky
way in its north south formation is the road to the other world. It's
it's the road the dead travel, our spirits travel it when we're dreaming.
It's the road between this and the other world. And so with all of
these, when we just had a couple of Olmec platforms, it was it
was not enough of a pattern to really argue it. But now we're getting
more and more of these north south oriented platforms, and with Bill's latest ideas
about Mississippian orientations that have the same orientation, I at least am beginning to
think that these big Olmec platforms are lined up as the path between this world
and the other world. And what are all the shamans on top of it
doing. They're contacting the other world. So I think they've kind of like
the the orientation is opening the portal to the other world that's up in the
sky to them, so that handset possible freests, astronomers using the platforms for
ceremony. I guess, yeah, yeah, And I you know, we
we divide a priestly class and a political class. They didn't, so probably
the Kings participated in that as well. But this this orientation, which has
so far been unexplainable. I think that Bill Romayne's research is actually giving us
some hope that we might have an actual meeting. Now, Cliff, I
know you said we're near the end. I've been holding back on something to
blow your mind with. Go ahead, we're all you know, I know
you, I know you love the whole ancient machines thing. There is a
crazy artifact group in the Olmec that that you may may or may not know
about. Have you heard of the uh Ill Mennite cubes. They're they're they're
magnetite ilemnite, and they're found in uh Omecville, but not just some that's
that's My last question to you was was that there are strange magnetic anomalies and
some of the sculptures that the Omec are are attributed to the Omec, but
I'm not sure about these. Tell me about them. Okay. They are
all cubes. They're made out of a magnetite that's specifically called i Ill mennite.
They're about this big, and they all have three holes drilled in them,
and so they're you know, they're a little larger and not exactly square,
but they're you know, about the size of a of a big dice
they have found and they're in all of the reports, but nobody ever mentions
them. They have found over six metric tons of them in big caches on
top of San Lorenzo, but also at all the other sites, and sometimes
little just individual ones show up in house mounds. But there are six metric
tons. Actually I think I just found more. I think I'm up to
like ten metric tons, because it's also at another part of San Lorenzo called
Loma Sapote, and they're overall, there's like one hundred and forty thousand of
these cubes and they are buried in a pit right next to the Red Palace
on top of San Lorenzo. And they're magnetic, and you know, I
looked up like, why the hell would anyone they're weekly magnetic, but they
are magnetite, And I looked it up, like what is ill mennite?
And why would anybody care? The biggest stash in the world of it is
in Russia, and you know why they mine it because it's the best source
of titanium. So the best source of titanium, there are cubes of it,
one hundred and forty thousand of them buried right next to the palace in
San Lorenzo is like that. The theories are, oh, they're probably fishing
weight nets, or maybe they're pieces of jewelry, or an Ceipher's thinks that
they were part of drills that you would like drill into stone using them,
that their holes inside would allow them to be one of those like spin hilled.
But one hundred and forty thousand of them buried next to the palace,
what the heck? And there's the last head that was found at San Lorenzo,
has this really weird head helmet and all of it's these little beads.
I thought they were jade beads, but uh, but apparently an Cipher's thinks
that it's a hat made of those im night cube. I know the sculpture
you're talking about. It's got little squares all through it. And I was
just there and asked a man who runs a museum in another town nearby,
Ayukon, and he was there at the excavation, and he said that about
ten of those cubes, those little cubes were in the matrix around head ten
from San Lorenzo. Now I'm really stepping out on a limb here, but
you know what the heck is that Why are these metal cubes in hue like
by the ton in these Olmec sites And nobody people are like that. My
colleagues are like, oh, they're probably fishing. Wait fish if they're magnetic
magnetic those I mean they're not wrongly magnetic. I mean for a moment I
thought like, you know, because they all have the holes in them too,
so they're weave together. They're probably weave together in something maybe like a
net. But I mean, you know, for a brief moment, I
thought like, well, if you pile them all right together and you put
them magnetically, you know, north south, could you actually levitate something with
a net made of this ship? But I was like, no, you're
crazy. I don't even say that out loud. Don't say it on the
Earth Ancients podcast. You can say it here, but watch out. If
you got university funding, you rights public. I already discounted that idea.
Do not credit me with that idea. No, we welcome, they'll look
it up. It's insane there. I mean, six tons of a material
that modern people get titanium out of. What's it doing there? I wonder
if there's any sculptures or any platform, Uh what do they call it?
Structures that are used that they that they plug into somehow. You know,
it'd be very interesting to see if they plug in different I knew you'd love
this. You know, you're always looking for the machine parts. I don't
know what the hell those things are. But you know, you know you
may not admit this, but you're also an anomaloist. You're you're a master
anomalist. I'm That's what I'm in it for, to find something that we
never even thought we'd possibly find. Well, it's funny because we were talking
about this is a couple of a year ago where we were talking about this
under ground tunnel at Tiatia Con and I was like, how's this water coming
in? And you went out and found an amazing underground delivery system that they
didn't even really talk about, no one talks about. I mean, thanks
for crediting me, but it was pretty low hanging fruit. It was just
on on an old Google thing. It was just I actually I actually quote
you on that. So we'll have to make sure you don't get in trouble.
So oh, I'm I'm not worried about I'm my own boss. Nobody
can that's true. That's true. And as always, Ed, doctor Ed
Barnhardt always great to speak with you, and I think really you bring us
up to date on some of the latest discoveries of the OMEC. And as
always, if if you want to check out Ed and his schedule, you
can go to what's the what's the website for your upcoming tours? Oh they're
all full. Oh they are, but that's my exploration dot org. And
then the other one that I'm always wanting to plug. That's why I'm you
know, doing the podcast thing is my podcast our k o ED. Yeah.
I would love for people to go there. It's a funny spelling,
it's you know, a eo ed at the end. So sometimes I did
that archaeology thing where I think everybody knows how to spell archaeology. Yeah,
check that out. His podcast is excellent. So yeah, Hey, so
your tours are all filled up for this year? Yeah? Yeah, you
know, it's taken twenty years, but apparently I'm popular this year. So
you're going are you going to be going to Levente again this year? Already
went that was my first one in March, and then I'm going to Wahaka
totally full then I'm going to Machu Pichu totally full. In fact, I've
got to take my dad and his girlfriend. So now it's now I've broken
my my cap, but I can't sell my daddy can't come. Yeah,
and there one last one to the patent again to go see Day of the
Dead. There excellent. Yeah, for those of you listening, Ed will
be taking us on a couple of tours in twenty twenty five. I'll be
posting that it will come up with more information. So it's great to have
him on as a tour leader. And as always, it's great to have
you on the podcast Ed. Thank you, my friend, and we'll be
in touch absolutely. Thanks for having me, Cliff, have a good one.
You know. I need to mention that I've been traveling to Mexico since
nineteen I think the first time I actually did a personal trip down there was
nineteen ninety five with a girlfriend. We were in Cancun. I was actually
invited by a native elder that I had featured in a conference here in San
Francisco. I actually mentioned this in the book, this new book that my
own controversy, and I was pleasantly surprised at the size and the sophistication of
the ruins, but I was with an elder, and that's one perspective.
And I have to say this, when you travel with an archaeologist, especially
a Mayanist like Ed, they have a whole different take on it because they've
analyzed it from a scientific point of view using the scientific methods. So although
I don't always agree on a lot of the conclusions they reach, it's kind
of fun to have a archaeologist with you. And this is why I really
urge you to join an Earthy Agin's tour or your own tours within archaeologist somebody
who's part of the tour to get their perspective. And I want to mention
this. We have a tour coming up in twenty twenty five where it is
going to be the Day of the Dead in October, and I just spoke
to Ed. He's working on the details right now. But if you can
join us on that tour, he has added a special dimension which I am
overjoyed to learn about. We'll get to climb a number of the peers at
Tea Call and most notably the World Pyramid that John Burke tested uh for frequency
for energy. This thing is just pulsing with toleric energy, we get a
chance to claim to the top of it. We'll do a meditative ceremony for
a Day of the Dead, and we're gonna be plugged in and I don't
know what to expect, but I think it's going to be just amazing.
When you said an intention, anything you any access to these ancient places is
opened through the key known as intention, So stay tuned for that. If
you want to join us in uh In, that's Guatamala, by the way.
We'll be there just for a week, but it's going to be very
intense. We're going to be into call two days. We're going to be
in a number of other locations for a period of time, including the world
class museums there, plus a lot of of food and delicacy and interaction with
the locals which makes it really, really fun. So send me an email
if you're interested. It's going to be in October twenty twenty five. Send
it an email to Earth Ancients dot no, excuse me, Earth Ancients for
you at gmail dot com. And that's probably going to fill up pretty quickly.
So all of our tours are available, by the way, all the
details on all of our tours are available at Earth Ancients dot com Forward slash
Tours. Always fun to have Ed on the program. His perspective is excellent.
You don't forget the upcoming Cosmic Summit June fifteenth and sixtieth. What a
world class lineup they have, Randallcarlson, Scott Walter, our good friend Pravin
Mohan, and on and on and on. They got like twenty keynotes that
are really really great. For more information and details, go to Cosmicsummit dot
com, Forward slash Earth Ancients. If you can make it, it's in
North Carolina, and they got great accommodations a lot of it's very reasonably priced.
If you can't make it, the two day is now one hundred bucks.
The two day streaming audio video. You get to keep everything, and
if you can't make it, do the streaming. It's the best way to
see a live presentation from the comfort of your laptop or your computer or your
TV. So again, Cosmic Summit June fifteenth and sixteenth. It's going to
be in North Carolina. For more information, go to Cosmicsummit dot com,
Forward slash Earth Ancients. I do want to mention that our Turkey Tour is
still filling up or about halfway full. That is going to be the ancient
sites of Turkey, including some of the new discoveries they found at Go Beckley
Tepi. And what's fun about this tour is we get a little bit access
that isn't typical for the general public. And this tour is twelve days,
includes darren Kuru, the underground City Cappadocia, and a number of unique sites
that have recently been discovered and partially discussed, but not a great deal.
Turkey is extremely old, extremely old, and I haven't been there. I'm
looking forward to it again. It's going to be August fourteenth to the twenty
fourth. For more information, go to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash Tours
and check it out. The entire itinerary is there, but just know that
we are updating it constantly and as new things open up, we will definitely
be there. So Earth Ancients dot com Forward slash Tours any questions whatsoever.
So we got two tours left. We got after Egypt. We have Turkey
in August and then we have the final tour of the year, which is
in November. It's the Sacred Temples of Mexico. That's November eighth through the
seventeenth, and that's going to be a classic because a lot of new stuff
has opened up because of this new train. They've discovered new sections of ek
Baalam and we're with me Me Wile Gonzales, who's very very attuned to what's
happening with excavations, and we'll get to see a lot of stuff. So
whatever you're interested in, come out and join us Earth Agents dot com,
forward Slash tours. If you have questions, send me an email at Earth
Ancients for you at gmail dot com and I'll get right back to you.
Our tours are great and they're very reasonable, and I make sure they're reasonable,
so check it out. All right, that's it for this program.
I want to thank my guest today, doctor Edwin Barnhardt, coming from Colorado,
United States. Has always a team of Gil Tour, Mark Foster and
everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock all right, take care
and be well and we will talk to you next time.