WEBVTT

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Love host Radio with Alejandro Roja.
Open Minds Radio is the UFO news authority

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presenting evidence and the latest news regarding
the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host,

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Alejandro Roja. Hello and welcome to
open Minds Radio. I guess uh we're

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on I hear the intro today,
but you are listening to open Minds Radio,

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your UFO news authority. This is
Alejandro Rojas and we have another great

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show. Today's guest it's very special, not that all of our guests are

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special, but today we have Ben
Hansen. He's the team leader on the

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sci fi channels Factor Faked. I
know a lot of people like this show.

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Some people get frustrated with it because
they debunk some stuff. But we'll

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talk to him about that, and
if you're in the chat, you know,

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let me know say, hey,
man, I want to call him

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out on debunking this. But of
course their very first show, as we

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talked about with Jeff Willis, who
we had on just a couple of weeks

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ago, they actually caught their very
own UFO footage and in fact, mister

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Hanson, who will be talking about
today or talking to today, actually has

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been into UFOs and secret projects.
For quite some time, and that was

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his inspiration to get into sociology and
criminology, where he went on to work

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for the State of Utah on their
SVU task Force. I think there's a

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TV show, isn't one of those
y SI or whatever SBU Special Victims Unit,

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Law and Order? Yeah, Lawn
and Order. There's so many of

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these cop shows it's crazy. And
then he also did some criminal investigations for

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the FBI, so pretty cool stuff
that he's done, and all inspired by

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ufolks. We'll talk to him a
lot more about that and his television show.

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However, a couple of things I
want to get into. The conference

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is full. I apologize if you
wanted to come at the last minute and

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or fly in, but it's too
late, unless maybe you know, you

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call in and you talk Maureen into
it. But no, the only thing

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that's full is a cocktail. We
can probably still. We'll just fit some

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more chairs in and if you're in
the Arizona metro area, definite or the

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Phoenix metro area, you know,
definitely come and check it out. It's

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going to be a lot of fun, especially the well all of it,

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all the speakers, and then we
of course we have the Hummer coming to

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the SkyWatch with some night vision goggles. That's going to be a lot of

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fun. And we're also giving away
a prize. I talked about this a

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little bit last time, but the
UFO Tour, one of our sponsors top

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secret tours, goes to Arizona and
New Mexico and some of the UFO hot

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spots. They go to Los Alamos
where they developed the nuke. They also

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go to White Sands where the first
nuke was blown up. They go to

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Roswell and there was some kind of
little UFO thing that happened in Rosswell,

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I guess in northern Arizona. They
go to the meteor Crater, Sedona and

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the Grand Canyon. All a lot
of fun. Sedona and the Grand Canyon

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being beautiful. Grand Canyon I've only
seen on TV. I still have not

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gone to the Grand Canyon. I
gotta go check that out. It looks

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awesome on TV, especially on now
that I have HD. It's watching the

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Grand Canyon in an HG the other
day. That was really cool. Sedona

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I have been to and that's absolutely
gorgeous. And of course they talk about

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different types of portals and things like
that. Of course I'm into science.

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So I bought this book that said
Science and the Anomalist Portals in Sedona,

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and it was kind of a bummer. And I don't mind if I write

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a review on this book. It's
going to be very bad review because it

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starts off that there really is no
science around this, and then it goes

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on to talk about this thing.
Well, why call your book science if

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it's not going to be full of
science? Not cool? Whoever wrote that

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book? So that's got to be
really cool. And we're going to be

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giving away one of these worst something
like three million dollars or three thousand dollars.

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Sorry, it's not three million,
three thousand. At the conference,

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someone's going to be able to win. That three thousand bucks is still pretty

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good though to me, you know, I would love some three thousand bucks

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right now. Another one of our
sponsors, a sponsor for the cocktail party,

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the cocktail party, which is sold
out, and you know some of

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you out there are like, yes, I'm glad I called early. I'm

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glad I listened to Aalohandra and called
early. Of course, you can register

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for next week's or next year's cocktail
party if you wanted to and I'm not

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sure if Janine will be sponsoring that
one, but the sponsor is Janine London

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and she has written a novel called
brain Chatter, Final Vaccination. That's what

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she's going to be talking about a
little bit about the book. What if

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they heard every word you said?
What if they knew every thought inside your

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head? What if they put them
there? Based on a woman's struggle against

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elitist agendas to depopulate and dominate planet
Earth. Brain Chatter, Final Vaccination,

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So it sounds like a very interesting
book. Janine's going to be there at

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the cocktail party to talk a little
bit about her book, and she'll be

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there to sign and sell them and
it'll be a lot of fun. So

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I'm looking forward to meeting her,
and we're very appreciative of her participating in

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this year's UFO Congress, So it's
gonna be a lot of fun. Otherwise,

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let's see radio shows coming up,
k Hen, We're going to be

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on a radio and if you're in
cal Colorado and the Salida area. Interesting

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enough, one of the most famous
UFO sightings was in Salida. Famous UFO

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videos actually done by Tim Edwards and
Salida. But it's also online, but

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we'll be talking about the Congress on
k Hen Salida's channel, which is kind

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of funny, you know, KHGN
and the mascot's a little hen, which

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you wouldn't think of. You kind
of think of Nebraska when you think of

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farming and stuff. But actually my
high school and it's embarrassing, I'll admit,

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our high school mascot was the farmer. We were the wheat rich farmers.

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Mine was an owl. No,
yeah, that's pretty bad too.

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No, owls are cool. Animals
are cool, but the wheat rich farmer,

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even though we mostly had mostly not
including me, upper middle class type

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of people there, so they were
middle management. They should have that.

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Maybe one day they will the wheat
rich middle manager and there'll be some guy

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in a suit with his briefcase be
the logo. That'd be kind of cool.

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Anyway, that's what's going on,
a lot of fun and Moreen's coming

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me at jerk for letting people giving
them the impression that the conference is full,

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but it kind of almost is.
So you better call really really quick

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if you still want to go,
and if you're in the metro Phoenix area,

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you know, we got room for
you guys. But or just go

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on the website ufocongress dot com.
That's another good way to do it.

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Otherwise we're gonna have to be sharing, and that gets kind of well,

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people get to know each other better. I guess there's nothing wrong with that,

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but it's awesome that we've gotten such
a huge response. AOL News is

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going to be doing a story on
us, like hopefully tomorrow and the next

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day. We've gotten a lot of
press coming and it's going to be a

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lot of fun. So I wanted
to talk about that because it's a lot

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of fun to talk about and we
are just overwhelmed with getting that prepared and

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we're just full of excitement. I
am. At least let us move on

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to Open Minds dot tv and UFO
News headlines. So there's UFO news going

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on all of the time. Something's
going on somewhere in the world, if

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not in multiple places throughout the world. UFOs are buzzing, people flying around,

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everybody seeing them. They're freaking out
or they're like, oh that's cool.

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You know, they're loving it.
Either way, Can we give you

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the latest on UFO news and on
Open Minds Radio, we always have our

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news correspondent Jason McClellan to share the
latest with us. Hello Jason, how

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are you? Elee? Hundred?
Not bad, excellent. You haven't been

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to the Grand Canyon? Huh No, I haven't yet. You know,

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I've lived here in Arizona for probably
twenty eight years and I've been once.

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Oh my gosh. And you talk
to really most Arizona natives and you'll find

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quite a few who have never been. Wow, that's crazy. It's a

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tourist spot. You live here,
you don't do an Arizona tourist thing,

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But in Colorado I would. I'd
go out and explore and go to all

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the places. You're an odd ball. Maybe I didn't ski though, that

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was one weird thing in Colorado.
Everybody thinks, oh, you're a snowboarder,

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right, yeah, that is pretty
weird. An elite snowbird is difficult,

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no, not mean. Well,
Hello everyone, this is your open

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Mind's News Brave for Monday, February
four, nineteenth, twenty eleven. It's

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Valentine's Day, and being that I'm
here and my wife is at home,

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I guess that makes you my Valentine
for the night. Alejandro, Jason,

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you're breaking me out. Well,
it is pretty scary, but you know,

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I'll probably be in the doghouse when
I get home, or not being

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home on Valentine's But I guess it
could be worse. I could be instead

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of in the doghouse, I could
be kicked to the moon. But I

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think that'd be pretty cool, and
that could be coming very soon. Getting

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kicked to the moon, yes,
because the existence of caves on the Moon

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has been speculated by scientists for years, but now NASA's scientists have proof.

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NASA's lunar reconnaissance orbiters successfully recorded an
image of a lunar pit in because the

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orbiter's position and the angle of the
Sun, this recorded image allows scientists to

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see into the lunar pit for the
first time. On previous attempts to photograph

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the lunar pit, the images returned
were too dark to make any concrete determinations.

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This fourth and most recent image provided
scientists with the evidence to prove the

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existence of the lunar caves. According
to The Daily Telegraph, this discovery could

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open the door to developing lunar bases
because the pit is wide and deep enough

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to protect people from dangerous meteorite impacts, cosmic rays, and extreme temperature fluctuations.

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While many scientists have been quick to
push space research efforts further out into

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the universe, at least some scientists
still see the value in exploring our closest

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neighbor, a neighbor about which we
still know very little. Yeah, we've

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talked about that a lot. How
the Moon is so cool, why not

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go there and hang out and build
a space motel. Got to talk to

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Bigelow about that. And in the
hole, in this hole, it's a

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perfect place to do it. It's
very relatively close to us compared to other

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celestial bodies, and you know,
so we can get there, and they

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keep finding new things about it.
Yea though, the water that the ice

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on the moons, they blasted their
rocket into it. And a lot of

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the interests or some of the interests
lately in the Moon has been about mining.

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And I hope they don't mind the
hell out of the moon. But

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yeah, but building a hotel up
there would be nice. Get a colony

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going on the Moon, that would
be awesome. I'd love that. I

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want to go to the moon,
man, And it's it's the great uh

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next step I think too, going
even farther. Yeah, and they's picked

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in the caves. That's pretty exciting. I mean, that makes it easier.

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It reminds me of the one in
Mexico, you know, that giant

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when they say you can fit the
Empire State building in and people are jumping

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into it with their parachutes all the
time like like crazies. In fact,

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there's some video jose Eskimia got some
rod videos right, that's right there,

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So yeah, that's that's really cool. Well, mainstream science seems to be

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shifting its views, taking the search
for extraterrestrial life more seriously. Researchers at

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major universities around the globe are actively
searching for life on other planets, including

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Phil from the University of Calgary's Department
of Physics and Astronomy. He will be

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speaking about the search for extraterrestrial life
at the Rothney Astronomical Observatory's open house.

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They have one this month and they
have them periodically where they invite the public

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to come in and see what the
observatory is up to, and he discusses

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the technology and how current technology enables
researchers to identify planets outside our Solar system

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and identify planets that might be good
candidates for supporting life. In response to

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NASA's recent discovery of microbes capable of
modifying their DNA to live in arsenic heavy

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environments, Langell states that scientists still
need or they need to start looking in

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other places. And we have got
to be broader in our search because we

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don't understand completely. And we've talked
about this too, people sort of brushing

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over planets in their search for planets
that could have life because they're looking for

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life as we know it. Yeah, it's so exciting because there's no doubt

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to me that they're going to find
life out eventure. We we'll find life

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in space, and it'll be in
places we never expected, in ways we

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never expected, in places we thought
it was impossible. Because there's just so

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much we don't know. It reminds
me I was watching the show I was

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watching Nature the other day, or
no, maybe it wasn't Nature anyway,

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it was a show about sea life, and you know they go over all

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these different animals, the steam ray, it does this and we don't know

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why. The manateee, you know, only the males go out into the

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ocean and then come back, but
they don't know why. The females don't.

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The whales, they don't know why
they sing all of these things where

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we don't know why they do what
they do, you know, and we

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think we got it all figured out
when we really don't. So it's pretty

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exciting also to care. Of course, scientists these days are all jumping on

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that extraterrestrial bandwig and where they're not
afraid to talk about it and speculate,

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whereas it didn't seem to be that
way let's say ten years ago. Right.

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We hear a lot now with the
discovery of new planets and new solar

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systems, with the highlighting of planets
that could possibly be in the habitable zone

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of that star. But again,
that's habitable based on life as we know

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it, right, And you bring
up a great point about life here on

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Earth. I mean, there's a
lot about life as we know it that

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we don't really know. There's some
people that live solely on alcohol, beer

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completely their whole lives. There might
be people in space and beer planet,

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beer planet. Yeah, I'm sure
lots of people here would enjoy going to

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live there, Homer Simpsons, there's
a planet for everybody. Yep. That's

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the kind of interesting and anomalists signal
was detected recently by a radio satellite utilized

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by SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence. We actually have this audio clip

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where you can hear this signal that
was picked up by these radio satellites.

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Yeah, kind of cool. Let's
see if we can hear that. It's

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kind of funny. It's a little
bit of a strange noise. Yeah,

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very weird noise. It sounds so
sci fi like, you know. Well,

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stormers haven't been able to really identify
the signal. It's a strong signal

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too that was picked up, but
they have pointed out that characteristics in the

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signal could point to you a terrestrial
source, like an unusual modulation between a

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GPS satellite and an unidentified Earth based
source. But still it's something anomalous.

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They have no idea what it is. Yeah, And that's the thing that

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I think a lot of people don't
realize is that they have strict protocols,

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are strict guideline ties to what they
will call certainly you know, a different

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anomalist type of thing. So it
has to be strong enough and it has

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to repeat several times in order for
them to say it's an extra trash definitely

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an extraterrestrial signal, which is kind
of a lot to ask for. I

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mean, we don't know. It
might have been an extraterrestrial signal and it's

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just something that wandered this way or
some In fact, there's been some criticism

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for city for this, because how
do we know that they're just not like

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sweeping an area with signals as opposed
to sending a signal directly to us repeated.

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We don't know that so well,
and just like we make assumptions.

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You know, who's just say that
being Salts weren't making assumptions, Yeah,

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sending us a completely different type of
signaling, the sending it once because they

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assume, oh well, clearly they
must be smart enough to receive our signal

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and know what we're meaning with one
try. We don't need to keep repeating

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it. What are they idiots?
Yeah? So right, Yeah, we

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have no idea what to listen for
either, so it's just a guessing game.

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Very cool though, that they received
these signals. I'm surprised that signal

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didn't get more news than it did, and especially because it sounds so cool.

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Yeah, sounds really cool, fairy
sci fi. In a recent interview,

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NASA Administrator Charles Bolden told WLTX in
Columbia, South Carolina that he believes

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there is a good potential for life
in our universe. While that former astronaut

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claims he never saw an extraterrestrial life
in space, he admits that everybody who

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goes to space wants to see an
alien or wants to see evidence that there

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is other life in the universe.
WLTX also interviewed Clifford Cliff, international director

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for Muffon the Mutual UFO Network,
who believes that NASA knows more than they

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publicly admit. Cliff stated in the
interview, they do have a significant amount

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of information about the UFO phenomenon well, and we know that from things such

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as Gordon Cooper, who was an
astronaut who saw UFO land when he was

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in the Air Force. Now I
can't remember which base. I think it

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was Edwards Ornellis, I can't remember
right now, but he filmed it and

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he gave the film over to some
Air Force intelligence people because that's what he

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was told to do, and he
never saw again. Doesn't know what happened

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to it. Edgar Mitchell and other
astronauts who have seen things while they're whether

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they were while they're in the Air
Force or while they're in NASA. So

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and John Chushler, who was one
of the co founders of MUFAN actually who

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works very closely with Cliff or Cliff
he worked for NASA and that's why he

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got involved with UFOs because he was
in capsule Capsule com or like at the

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headquarters when the astronauts called down and
said, hey, we're seeing the UFO

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out here. We're seeing something we
don't know, and they kind of covered

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it up, and he was an
engineering He's like, what's with that?

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The astronauts said they saw UFO and
I'm like, I don't worry about it.

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And that's when he became really concerned
that we need to know because he

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was working on safety for the astronauts, so he's thinking, well, I

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would like to know so we can
protect the astronauts or build systems to be

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able to protect themselves. So he's
a NASA person who got involved. So

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they definitely know more than there.
Let certainly makes sense that the people who

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have been to space would know more
about what's in space. Yeah, so

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I definitely think they know what they
don't want us to know. Yeah,

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they know that. We know that. They know that. They say they

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don't know, they know, but
they do know that will all be changing

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soon, hopefully when these commercial planes
and companies going to go into space and

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start taking people into space space tourism. Because it's interesting how many NASA videos

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there are where there's anomalous things buying
around, right, and they just do

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not comment at all. They just
don't comment. Here's another story, and

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it's an interesting article that was published
in Seattle Weekly last week. And when

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I saw the title of this headline, I kind of left. I was

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completely not shocked. The headline read, Peter Devenport leaves the UFOs. Can

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you believe it? Peter Davenport believes
in the UFO. I know. It

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was earth shattering. Wow, I
might jaw drop to the floor. We're

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being sarcastic because we know who he
is. This shouldn't come as a surprise

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to anyone who knows who Peter Davenport
is. He runs the National UFO Reporting

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Center, which operates a twenty four
hour UFOs siding hotline. Since nineteen ninety

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four, Davenport has led the one
man operation, which he funds entirely himself

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the Seattle Weekly article. It's quite
substantial and includes lots of pictures too.

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They had the article on their website
and we had the link to it on

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openmindes dot tv. So check it
out. It's kind of fun and I

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love the pictures any pictures related to
Peter because they always show where he lives.

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He listened to this old missile bunker
missile playalo place. Well, often

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they don't show those pictures too,
And so that's what I loved about the

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Seattle Weekly story is that they showed
a lot of pictures, more pictures of

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the bunker. Yeah, than I've
ever seen before. You kind of think

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it's knowing how to is keep it
warm down there. But it looks pretty

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cool. It makes me want to
go live in it. Oh, it

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looks really cool. We need to
move our office into a missile base totally.

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That'd be awesome. But it's funny
because in the article there are quotes

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where he's leading these people around who
are doing the story and taking pictures,

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and he says something like, oh, you've got to be careful, there

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are probably wolves out here. Really
wow, our boss is probably listening.

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That'sthing he could look into is getting
a missile silo. I think you definitely

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need a missile silos as your home
base. Yeah, live from our missile

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silo Open Minds Radio. Yeah,
I think it would cause a lot of

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envy. Yeah, that'd be cool. There was a video that recently emerged

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and it was shot on New Year's
Day actually, and the video was allegedly

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shot by two medical professionals from a
plane where they were observing the Nasco lines

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in Peru near the foothills of the
Andes. Late in the video, there's

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a dark mass that briefly emerges from
the clouds, and some were speculating that

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the object was a UFO. It
was on a crash course with the plane

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and then zooms away and the video
does the you know, slows the video

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down and zooms in and does still
frame analysis. But really there's not much

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you can tell from this video.
It's just kind of a slightly darker mass

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in the clouds. The story really
hyped it up like it was going to

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be something great, and then you
watch the video and you see a little

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00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:36.359
darkness in the clouds for a second, and it's kind of a letdown.

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So maybe it was a lot more
exciting. What they visually saw in the

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plane, but the video yeah,
was not that impressive. Yeah, the

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00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:49.319
video it certainly hypes itself up.
Is the greatest proof of footage or UFO

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footage of twenty eleven. And there's
still kind of a nice story though,

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00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:56.640
because they talked about the NASCA lines. Yeah. Yeah, that part of

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it was fascinating. Yeah. In
some interesting news for this week, Jeff

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Peckman, the man behind the recent
push to create an Extraterrestrial Affairs Commission in

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Denver, Colorado, has thrown his
hat into the Denver mayoral race. I've

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00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:18.519
heard about that and we wish him
luck. The election is May eleventh,

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so he's got to push ahead of
him. Yeah. Really interesting he's done

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that. You know. One of
the things that they make fun of him

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about was he tried to get it. Well, he did get this initiative

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00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:34.920
on the ballot a few years ago
where he wanted the city officials to have

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programs where they did some stress release
type of things. I don't think that's

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such a bad idea really. I
think that you know, if they did

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allow people or provide people some space
maybe just like a half hour to go

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to a relaxation room and sit down
and for a while. You know,

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he talks about meditation things like that. It would probably help you know how

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people get so stress out. Absolutely, and big companies have figured that out.

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I mean you look at Google.
They exercise these techniques. They've got

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00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.799
their playrooms, they've got pool tables, they've got everything, because they know

325
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:15.160
that people get stressed. You need
to unwind a little bit and you're going

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00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:18.119
to be a more productive worker.
Japan they do that a lot, I

327
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:21.640
know. But I mean, so
it wasn't even though people make fun of

328
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.680
him, wasn't that bad of an
idea. And so he's definitely kind of

329
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:27.160
an out and he's no doubt an
out of the box. Think are quite

330
00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:33.000
far out of the box. But
he's also a really nice guy. I

331
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:36.160
think people like him. I mean
you can hear it in the tone of

332
00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:41.440
the stories. They don't really the
ones that know him, especially the locals

333
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:42.440
and stuff, don't make a whole
lot of fun of him. They just

334
00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:47.279
kind of tell the story and you
know, tongue in cheek a little bit

335
00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:52.160
here and there. But he's a
very likable fella. I think we're allowed

336
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.240
to make a little fun of him. If you've seen his rep video.

337
00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:02.839
Yeah, that's uh. That was
not complimentary, that's for sure. It

338
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:07.079
was amusing. I was entertained.
Yeah, the Jeff Beckman rap. Well,

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I will definitely keep everyone posted with
any news on Jeff Packman's push there

340
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:18.519
for the mayor of Denver, Colorado. And that is it for the news

341
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for today, my friend. For
more on these stories and any other UFO

342
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:27.240
related news, check out openminds dot
tv. That is your source for UFO

343
00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:32.000
related news. I'm Jason McClellan,
your Open Minds News correspondent, and you've

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00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:37.799
been briefed back to you, sir
Alejandro. Thank you, Jason. And

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00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:42.400
there's another Jason in a chat who
was asking about something and I think we

346
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:48.119
didn't quite mention, which was McKinnon
asking about an update on McKinnon. Not

347
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:53.200
really an update date to his case
unfortunately, but funny enough. David Gilmour

348
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:57.400
of Pink Voyd, who we've talked
about being a supporter of Gary McKinnon it

349
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:02.519
has paid his metal bills for him, So that was really nice. I

350
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:06.640
mean, I'm sure McKinnon like that. I think we talked about with Ross

351
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:11.200
Hemlsworth or something. I was talking
about someone about that lately. What his

352
00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:15.519
medical bills must be like. So
that was really nice, and that's the

353
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:18.920
latest we have. So interesting enough, even though this deadline has passed where

354
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they're supposed to decide whether or not
they're going to extradite him, they have

355
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:27.799
not figured that out yet, so
I think they're really stalling on that.

356
00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:34.799
It ought to be interesting to see
what happens there. So we also a

357
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:37.640
couple of the stories we have.
We do have a story. I wrote

358
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:42.319
something on Jeff Peckman to give you
a little bit more information about his bid

359
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:48.960
to run for mayor and some of
his campaign and his platform, because actually,

360
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:53.680
when you go to his website where
he talks about running for office,

361
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.480
there's only the word UFO twice on
there because mostly he's focusing on many other

362
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:06.319
things such as job creation, medical
marijuana. Interesting enough, but he brings

363
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:08.200
up the point is that in that
you know all the different things we can

364
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:15.079
make with him products and making sure
to have a safe environment for those people.

365
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.960
I'm looking into these issues that cause
people pain and trying to reise all

366
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:25.920
these issues and looking out of the
box for different healing methods and modalities and

367
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:30.240
helping these people out. So he's
got some interesting stuff to say so and

368
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:34.559
I'll bet you he'll get a lot
of airtime. The Huffington Post already posted

369
00:28:34.599 --> 00:28:41.279
his story on it. That's the
first major media outside of Denver that's covered

370
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:42.440
it as far as I know,
and I'm sure he's going to get a

371
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:48.119
lot of coverage on that. Some
other stories that we wrote this week were

372
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:56.079
by about Costa Rica. Two stories
that Antonio Hunans contributed to our website,

373
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:03.039
and it's in two parts because he
did the Costa Rica ufo dosie I like

374
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:07.400
that word, but essentially talking about
a lot of UFO sightings and UFO history

375
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:15.920
in Costa Rica and including a very
famous sighting in Coote Lake. And this

376
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:22.640
was an image taken by aerial photography
of a disc shape over a lake and

377
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:26.799
not a lot of people know about
this one, although it is fairly famous.

378
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:32.440
The Kameta Report, which was a
French UFO report, had put this

379
00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:37.519
ufo on their cover that made it
pretty famous, and a lot of important

380
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:44.519
investigators, scientific and careful investigators looked
into this and they found it to be

381
00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:48.839
something that was legit. So he
wrote all about that, which is great,

382
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:51.599
and in fact we put up a
picture. Not only that, we

383
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:56.400
put up the entire frame, which
is the first time I've even seen it

384
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:03.200
personally of the sighting. So you
can go look at this entire aerial photograph

385
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.359
and see where the UFO is with
maps and get to look at some of

386
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:10.319
that. You got to see Antonio
when he's young, out there being cool,

387
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:14.759
investigating and he was investigating actually with
doctor Richard Haynes, who used to

388
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:18.519
work for NASA. So that's a
really fun story too, some of the

389
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:23.039
Open Minds exclusive stories that we have
up on the website that we update on

390
00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:29.440
a regular basis as well. However, it is time for our guest of

391
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:33.640
honor this evening, and that is
mister Ben Hanson. Are you there,

392
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.519
Ben? I am. How are
you guys doing tonight? Good? How

393
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:44.559
are you good? And Happy Valentine's
Day? Yep, Happy Valentine's Day.

394
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:51.519
We're here. Luckily, the only
one of us that has espoused is Jason,

395
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:53.400
so he's the only one that's going
to be in trouble when he gets

396
00:30:53.400 --> 00:31:00.319
own. But I even forgot that
with today. Yeah, but we don't

397
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.319
have any obligations to do theirself.
Oh yeah, good, you're not going

398
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:07.640
to get in trouble. Nope.
Well cool, You've got a very popular

399
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:11.720
show which is going well on the
sci Fi Channel, The Fact or Fake,

400
00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:18.480
and that seems to be doing pretty
well. Huh yeah, it does.

401
00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:25.920
We set some type of record if
it was the first first half of

402
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.519
last season. You know, we
we've been getting about consistently a million,

403
00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:36.759
a little bit more million viewers.
It's now and I don't know how many

404
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:41.359
countries. I don't I didn't know
this before when we started up the show,

405
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:47.200
that sci Fi is so connected globally. I mean, you've got every

406
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:49.640
country has their own version of the
Sci Fi Channel. Uh huh. So

407
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:53.880
we learned that, you know,
our show is in Germany and they're dubbing

408
00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:59.920
over our voices in German. So
it's just about every month I get new

409
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:04.559
countries and new people. You know, they're watching the first episodes and commenting

410
00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:07.880
on things. So it's a lot
of fun. How cool do you do

411
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.000
you get to see some of those
shows where you see yourself and you're being

412
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:16.720
dubbed. I've wanted to I need
to get ahold of someone over there in

413
00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:21.279
the Netherlands or something, because I
want to see if it's the same person

414
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:25.359
doing your voice. Yeah, switched
up the episode ah right, Yeah,

415
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:34.160
because the voice or something representing you
or maybe one person who just tries to

416
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:39.200
make different sounding voices. Yeah,
it's it's kind of kind of funny.

417
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:44.119
I mean, because they I guess
that's why they do these shows, you

418
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:47.920
know, instead of doing the subtitles
that because a lot of them involved you

419
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:53.119
know, night investigations, and the
whole emotion of I guess hearing the people

420
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:58.839
get excited in their own languages.
It's something that's don't want to mess right

421
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:06.160
exactly. So how does it feel
getting out to that many people? You

422
00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:10.119
know, it's something I never really
imagined. It's been such an adventure,

423
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.680
it really has because you probably know
I came from a completely different background.

424
00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:23.440
I was in law enforcement, private
public agencies, you know, doing other

425
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:29.200
things as far as research and analysis
as well, and and to get into

426
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:36.400
the whole entertainment world is very different. And it's not been ever an ambition

427
00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:40.440
of mine. It was just an
opportunity that came open. And the passion

428
00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:45.319
for Paranoma always has been. But
you know, I tell people it's the

429
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:49.559
strangest thing because when I was in
high school, I thought, you know,

430
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:53.359
my my favorite show is kind of
cliche. But My favorite was The

431
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:59.640
X Files, and I thought,
how could I get a job investigating and

432
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:05.279
doing that and and have the paranormal
and all you know at once and am

433
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:08.079
doing that? Yeah, exactly,
and with the entertainment factor, so you're

434
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:14.079
actually getting it out to the public, getting it out to people right,

435
00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:19.400
right. And you know, I
think that's the great thing about it is

436
00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:23.880
because you know, when when we
first I'm not on the production side of

437
00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:28.760
things, but I helped kind of
develop the concept of the show, and

438
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:31.559
uh, you know, it was
really kind of disappointed, because you apology

439
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:37.199
has always been my main interest.
And you know, when you had UFO

440
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:42.079
Hunters that went off the air,
You've got ancient aliens I think still going.

441
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:45.880
But but uh and every now and
then a documentary, but unsolved mysteries

442
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:51.960
all those that really dealt with the
subject disappeared, right, And so it

443
00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:58.079
was kind of my you know,
contribution to bring back a lot of UFO

444
00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:02.480
cases. So I think by bringing
the subject up and getting it out there,

445
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:07.400
you know, in it's in its
way, is very valuable to the

446
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:12.400
field. Yeah. And what I've
found, and I don't know if you

447
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:15.800
all think this is true too,
is that even though some of this stuff

448
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:21.159
has been covered before, and we
go through this in the magazine. First

449
00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:23.239
of all, we haven't done our
p our kind of spin our are done

450
00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:27.679
it our way. And the other
thing is that even though it's been done

451
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:30.920
before, because there are so many
new people coming into this and having having

452
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:36.239
an interest, that a lot of
these new people don't know about these historic

453
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:42.400
cases. So it's news to them
when you cover those things exactly. You

454
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:47.280
know, we do. We do
have kind of a niche in our format

455
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:51.320
that it was kind of well,
it's kind of turned out to be a

456
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:57.400
hybrid of of MythBusters and and uh, you know ghost hunters UFO hunters,

457
00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:04.360
and so that niche also requires us
to adhere to kind of a format,

458
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:08.440
and so with experimentation and things,
Yes, we are looking at some cases

459
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:15.679
that some people have researched. But
you know, as you know, it's

460
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:27.440
also the ufology filled is it's very
sticky sometimes because there is no standardized an

461
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:35.360
accepted authority really as to what credentials
someone has to have the process that's involved.

462
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:38.960
And so any historical case you look
at, you you probably could find

463
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:49.119
as many people saying and presenting their
points for something as you can against it,

464
00:36:49.639 --> 00:36:52.360
right, you know, So when
we get in there and you know,

465
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:55.480
and you figure in the time that
we have to present something in half

466
00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:00.920
an hour, it's like it's kind
of like the a chef. I mean,

467
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:04.840
you're taking all the information you have
to give everyone background on the history,

468
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:08.800
then present what we're doing there,
our experiments, and then sum it

469
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.960
up. So you're dicing and cutting
it and serving it to people to let

470
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:19.039
them decide, right. Right.
So I want to get into before we

471
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:22.360
get into more of the show and
the details about the show, kind of

472
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:25.039
what you were talking about earlier,
how in high school you were into the

473
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:32.800
X Files and how your interests in
UFOs kind of was that your inspiration for

474
00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:37.599
getting into investigations? But what got
you into UFOs? Did you have a

475
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:42.119
sighting when you were younger or what
was the stuff that you were seeing that

476
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:47.519
really got you into the subject.
Well, as I thought back, I

477
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:52.280
think the first time I was introduced
to it was I believe I was eight

478
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:57.320
or ten years old. I'm thirty
three now, so someone can do the

479
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:01.280
math. I don't remember what ET
came out, but sometime around then,

480
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:07.079
and I remember watching that and being
fascinated by the possibility of life on other

481
00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:12.039
planets and wanted to know more about
it. Well. By the time I

482
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:17.960
was about twelve, my dad was
bringing me books like Communions and Project Blue

483
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:22.639
Book, and you know it kind
of heavy reading for someone at that age,

484
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:28.639
and I kind of me I was
probably involved in sports, but I

485
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:30.920
had my little side obvious. I
didn't want anyone to know about kind of

486
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:36.360
hide my books from my friends,
like what do you read about UFOs?

487
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:39.400
And anyways. It also kind of
scared me. I mean I would put

488
00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:45.079
these books away after a while because
it was such a i mean a mind

489
00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:51.639
blowing subject that there was a period
there where I really didn't do much with

490
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:57.880
it until I was about fourteen and
I started hearing about Area fifty one,

491
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:04.440
the articles and popular mechanics. And
my dad was kind of like my buddy

492
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:08.159
through all this, and I realized
later on he was feeding me, you

493
00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:12.400
know, these books and things is
because we share there's common interest. Now

494
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:19.840
I did have you know, it
has only been in the past probably ten

495
00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:28.239
years. My grandfather who he passed
away of prostate cancer which spread and he

496
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:31.519
is a war veteran, and at
any rate, we found out I found

497
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:40.320
out during the years of probably about
nineteen sixty four and through the late sixties

498
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:44.519
to sixty nine or so, and
then a little bit in seventeen eighties.

499
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:51.079
He was a civil engineer at Ry
Patterson and I grew up in Utah,

500
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:55.679
so he worked primarily at Hill Air
Force Base up there. His specialty,

501
00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:06.039
I get the he was the maintenance
operator and in a designer of underground hangar

502
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:12.519
systems. Wow. So yeah,
And and I finally, you know,

503
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:15.800
and when I started getting into this
with my dad and and we were,

504
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:22.119
you know, later years when my
grandfather was getting really sick, my dad

505
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:27.159
started kind of prodding him to see
if if he knew anything, because this

506
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:31.159
was a big subject on all the
TV shows and right and you know,

507
00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:34.559
I don't. I would not how
much time we have to get into it

508
00:40:34.599 --> 00:40:38.679
all. But but little by little, his way of letting my dad know

509
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:45.199
that he was on the right track
was just kind of saying nothing and listening

510
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.000
to him, kind of giving him
a little nods and saying, yes,

511
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:58.079
that's interesting. Until one day he
was watching TV and Philip Corso for those

512
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:02.360
listeners who don't know, Philip Courso
is you know a colonel who served in

513
00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:12.239
at the Pentagon and and very high
levels of involvement in the foreign technology and

514
00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:19.320
research and development of the army.
And he claims to have taken his back

515
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:23.599
engineered material and dispersed it back into
the private industries. And that's where we

516
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:29.679
get all of our you know,
microchips, lasers and a bunch of things.

517
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:34.440
And so anyways, Grandpa's watching the
TV and he says, oh,

518
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:40.840
Philip, he called him phil I've
seen him forever. Oh wow. And

519
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:45.639
my dad says, you know this
guy and he says, well, yeah,

520
00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:51.280
yeah, we we knew each other, right, Patterson. Well,

521
00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:57.239
as time went on, my dad
started asking him about things. When he

522
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:02.239
was fifteen years old, my grandmother
at one point got really sick and they

523
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:07.719
almost lost her. So at fifteen
years old, my dad is kind of

524
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:15.840
the kind of the household. Because
Grandpa would take these trips on TDY temporary

525
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:20.519
duty out to write Patterson. And
he told my dad one day, he

526
00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:24.360
said, you know, there may
come a time where I need to leave

527
00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:30.719
right away and just go. And
I can't explain why, but I'm part

528
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:36.159
of a group that is involved in
something that if there's an emergency in the

529
00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:37.960
country, I have to go.
And I can't tell you when I was

530
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:45.000
back, and my dad said that
you remember specifically in nineteen sixty five,

531
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:52.360
the first time that he left quickly
like that was early December. And this,

532
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:55.639
I mean, we're my dad and
I really into researching this. This

533
00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:00.559
just barely happened today. I got
this new infect Wow. He left,

534
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:07.400
took him to the airport, got
on a plane. He was hoping he'd

535
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:10.559
be back in about twenty days.
He got back right before Christmas. Now

536
00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:16.360
this is pure speculation, but my
dad was going through trying to find out

537
00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:23.559
what major events happened in nineteen sixty
five and around that time, and he

538
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:35.239
found the Textsburgh, Pennsylvania UFO crash
happened December tenth, And it's been speculated

539
00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:40.880
that there's been witnesses that said that
debris went to Wright Patterson. What kind

540
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:43.719
of group he was, you know, may have been a part of,

541
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:46.000
if he had anything to do with
it, I have no idea, but

542
00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:51.119
you know, it's kind of fun. So the long answer to your question

543
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:55.880
is we we followed, you know, kind of grandpa until the end where

544
00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:00.679
you know, he was in the
hospital bed and he kept his oath.

545
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:06.239
But he did tell my my father
that we're not alone, and he was

546
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:12.159
referring to you know, life on
another world. Wow. So that kind

547
00:44:12.199 --> 00:44:15.760
of you know, initiated the fire. I did have in my own UFO

548
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:22.519
experience in the Bahamas where I saw
an object that was doing things that satellites

549
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:30.199
shouldn't do, you know, But
I guess, yeah, that's well,

550
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:34.199
that's very good. I mean.
And your grandpa you said he worked on

551
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:40.920
underground hangar systems. Yes, his
job was in the in the late sixties.

552
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:45.079
From what I understand, they you
know, the Cold War era,

553
00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:50.719
the Russians, you know, in
the US played this kind of shell game,

554
00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:54.360
so nobody, you know, either
side didn't want the other to know

555
00:44:54.519 --> 00:45:00.840
how many aircraft they had where they
were distributed. So the planes that you

556
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:07.079
can see from the satellites overhead are
only only represent you know, what they

557
00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:09.719
wanted the Russians to see, right, But what happened was when they take

558
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:15.880
him into the hangars, they would
go down several layers and they would move

559
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:21.159
them around and keep them out of
sight. So the Russians really didn't know

560
00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:29.440
how many planes we had anywhere.
The grapple job was to maintain to what

561
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:32.960
we gather. He was a tinker, I mean, a civil engineer.

562
00:45:34.039 --> 00:45:39.760
He just he probably really helped develop
these systems and make sure that you know,

563
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:44.239
they were working order. That's pretty
cool because of course kind of the

564
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:46.599
same systems are used on aircraft carriers. But as far as I know,

565
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:52.199
really underground hangars isn't something that's acknowledged. I don't know if any base that

566
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:55.320
says, yeah, we have some
underground hangars. Of course, everybody suspects

567
00:45:55.320 --> 00:46:00.480
that there are at Area fifty one, but that really isn't a knowledged yet

568
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:06.880
still, so that's in itself a
very secret, secretive type of thing he's

569
00:46:06.920 --> 00:46:10.280
working on, especially at right Patterson. Oh exactly. You know, my

570
00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:15.639
dad remembers calling him when he was
there and telling him that my grandmother was

571
00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:20.920
sick. And he very rarely called
when he went out there, only a

572
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:24.199
couple of times while he was there
for weeks, and he remembers trying to

573
00:46:24.199 --> 00:46:28.239
get a hold of him, telling
him that my you know, grandma was

574
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:32.360
in the hospital, and he was
so frustrating because the operator there I guess,

575
00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:38.199
you know, they'd patched him through
to whatever buildings and and you know,

576
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:44.679
my dad might I kind of tease
him about his memory, but he

577
00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:49.960
claimed that he asked for my grandpa, who was working in building eighteen.

578
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:53.960
I don't know if he's been watching
kind of too many of these shows that

579
00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:00.719
associated building hand gar eighteen was something
else. But anyway, they said,

580
00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:05.480
well which building. There's eighteen A, there's eighteen B, there's eighteen C.

581
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:10.960
You know, so it who knows? But but my grandpa didn't tell

582
00:47:12.039 --> 00:47:16.719
him. Well, he was very
frustrated because my dad had a conversation when

583
00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:22.320
he came home later and he said, he left me here with mom and

584
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:25.440
she was in the hospital. I
couldn't even get a hold of you.

585
00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:30.480
And my grandpa got pretty stern with
him and looked him in the eye and

586
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:36.679
he said I wasn't available. And
my dad said, how could you not

587
00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:40.760
be available? There's phones everywhere and
he said not. Everywhere I was working

588
00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:46.400
was above ground. M wow.
So gab have a friend, a funny

589
00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:51.440
enough who worked at rat Wright Patterson
and he uh, it was while I

590
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:55.199
worked at a data center and he
was a cabling guy and he was out.

591
00:47:55.280 --> 00:47:59.400
He said they were really far away
from the base too, working on

592
00:47:59.480 --> 00:48:02.480
some data cables and the guy he
was with cut the wrong cable and he's

593
00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:06.480
like, oh, I think I
cut the wrong cable and he's like,

594
00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:08.519
oh great, let me take a
look. He crawls down in the hole

595
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:13.480
and he said it was that quick. You know, they heard some alarms

596
00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:15.760
and stuff. They're like, oh, I wonder what's going on. And

597
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:19.760
you know, within like a few
seconds, this this hole there and it's

598
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.239
surrounded by guys with guns and they're
like, what the hell you guys doing?

599
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:25.760
It was because the security is so
tight and who knows what line they

600
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:30.639
cut. But yeah, right,
Patterson, it's a real deal. I

601
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:35.119
mean, that's that's a very secretive
base. You probably know about Curtis LeMay

602
00:48:36.280 --> 00:48:42.199
and the comments he made with Barry
Goldwater. I believe what he tried to

603
00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:44.960
go and visit was that wrong.
Yeah, where Goldwater said, hey,

604
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:49.840
take me to that blue room where
you got the aliens and stuff and let

605
00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:52.920
me was his friend told him,
hey, uh, don't ever talk about

606
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:59.599
that again, and got really upset
with him, right right, Yeah,

607
00:48:59.719 --> 00:49:02.920
So, I mean this is kind
of a side project. I've talked with

608
00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:09.119
Tom Kerry recently and some of the
others who are in the Roswell stuff,

609
00:49:09.159 --> 00:49:15.280
and we're looking at trying to create
some type of a collective database on Ray

610
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:21.639
Patterson. Now, it's astounding how
many of these veterans that are dying so

611
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:27.039
quickly. It's like a thousand veterans
a day or something like that, that

612
00:49:29.239 --> 00:49:32.480
you know, we're losing our history. And to find them and to get

613
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:39.320
their statements down and and everything is
a monumental task. One Tom Carry and

614
00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:44.199
Don Schmidt are two people who have
done an incredible job doing that with the

615
00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:52.840
Roswell incident. Yes they have and
great guys too. One thing I wish

616
00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:57.800
they could change about the field is
just kind of the cattiness. Though not

617
00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:01.679
with them, not from them,
but there's so much great research going on,

618
00:50:02.840 --> 00:50:06.360
it's just hard to kind of get
everyone to sit down at the same

619
00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:09.360
table. Yeah, you know,
I kind of that with Tom and get

620
00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:13.360
everyone to share information. It's kind
of it reminded me of when I was

621
00:50:13.400 --> 00:50:17.000
working for the FBI and you know
after nine to eleven, you know,

622
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:22.280
everything was revamped because the agencies wouldn't
share information. Yeah, you know,

623
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:27.639
so kind of the same problem we
have in this field. Yeah, definitely.

624
00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:30.280
It's one of those things that's nice. That's why I like the events

625
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.559
like the Congress, and it's going
to be great because you're going to be

626
00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:37.679
there, but that you get a
lot of these people together and they they

627
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:40.800
have a chance, you know,
they're kind of forced in a way to

628
00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:46.039
kind of talk, and a lot
of stuff happens from these people getting together

629
00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:51.280
and talking and being together for a
few days, which kind of helps that

630
00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:54.679
out when and I think over time, it seems like it used to be

631
00:50:54.719 --> 00:51:00.800
a lot worse than it is now. What's good, it's that it's getting

632
00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:04.719
better. Yeah, but it is
unfortunate. I know exactly what you mean

633
00:51:04.719 --> 00:51:09.760
about the communication, because that's something
that we try to keep open. Well.

634
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:13.719
I think it might also have something
to do with the fact that in

635
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:17.559
order to survive in this field and
actually do it full time, you kind

636
00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:22.760
of have to bring things out exclusively, you know, books, yeah,

637
00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:25.599
documentaries and things, and so people
hold on to it very privately. I

638
00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:31.000
mean we I think we all want
the same goal, but it's it's that

639
00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:36.199
very few people I think can make
a living out of it, right,

640
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:40.719
Yeah, And if the goal is
the truth, you know, that's I

641
00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:45.679
like the people and there are a
lot of them who are more cooperative and

642
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:50.320
everything, but I know exactly what
you mean. It's unfortunate. So that's

643
00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:52.719
kind of funny though, getting back
to Right Patterson and Blue Book, because

644
00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:58.519
Blue Book was headquartered at of Wright
Patterson. But on the other side,

645
00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:05.039
the other book you're reading was Communion, which is kind of funny because when

646
00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:08.400
I've heard of people at first,
you know, hearing about how they would

647
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:12.920
get scared reading about Blue Book and
stuff, and I wonder why, And

648
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:17.320
then when you ask them, it's
because they've also read or seen something about

649
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:23.960
abductions. So when you bring them
really credible stuff which really starts to push

650
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:30.360
their belief towards believing that we're being
visited, it makes it extra scary because

651
00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:35.920
it means that some of these other
situations, such as Communion possibly could be

652
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:39.480
really happening too. Of course,
Communion being one of the first big abduction

653
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:49.280
books exactly, I think it's a
very very interesting subject. But it's kind

654
00:52:49.280 --> 00:52:52.960
of like I always am constantly trying
to go through this in my mind because

655
00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:57.360
I fit kind of on the fence. You know, I have a very

656
00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:02.880
open mind, but where I,
you know, ninety percent believe something to

657
00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:09.360
maybe ten or twenty percent. It's
kind of like before I had my experience

658
00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:16.679
in seeing an object over the Caribbean, I very well thought it was conceivable,

659
00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:21.320
but after I saw it, then
I said, well, now I

660
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:25.280
can't really easily discount anybody's story as
far as it goes, you know,

661
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:30.639
seeing objects, and then you know, with abduction stories, I thought,

662
00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:35.000
okay, well, maybe they just
came, they had visited, Maybe that's

663
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:39.079
it. Maybe we haven't actually had
you know, a third kind contact or

664
00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:44.880
anything. But then I talked with
you know, somebody who's become a great

665
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:47.800
friend of mine, Travis Walton,
you know, from from Firing the Sky,

666
00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:52.719
And this guy is so believable.
And I think I'm a pretty good

667
00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:58.559
judge of deception and you know,
picking up on cues and asking the right

668
00:53:58.639 --> 00:54:04.880
questions, and you know, I
believe this guy had an actual experience,

669
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:09.559
and so so I think somebody who's
new to the subject kind of approaches it

670
00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:14.800
probably like I did, in degrees, and until you maybe have your own

671
00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:21.119
confirmation, you might think it's possible. But but everyone, you know,

672
00:54:21.199 --> 00:54:22.760
kind of like, Okay, I
believe this, but I won't believe that.

673
00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:28.519
It is very interesting how that works. Yeah, I was the same

674
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:34.159
way when I joined move On to
investigate. I was very skeptical of abductions

675
00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:39.000
until I started meeting these people and
having an open mind and listening, and

676
00:54:40.119 --> 00:54:45.119
then you know, I found some
extraordinary things such as that a lot of

677
00:54:45.159 --> 00:54:49.559
these people really do have lots of
UFO sightings, more than most people.

678
00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:52.639
And I had a couple of sightings
with some of these people. So you

679
00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:58.920
know, like you say, then
how do you disregard everything else? And

680
00:54:59.079 --> 00:55:01.920
Travis Walton there is another one.
Like you said, that's what's great.

681
00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:07.119
And you know, hopefully people can
come to the Congress. If you haven't

682
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:09.960
met Travis Walton, he's definitely someone
you want to meet because, like you

683
00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:14.920
said, he is so down to
earth, regular guy. When I met

684
00:55:15.039 --> 00:55:17.960
him, he was still just kind
of coming out to talk well. I

685
00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:22.119
mean, he had talked a lot, then he became a recluse and didn't

686
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:23.920
want to talk about it, And
when I met him, he had just

687
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:27.559
it was like one of the first
talks he had done in a really long

688
00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:30.559
time, and he was still kind
of like, I don't like talking about

689
00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:32.199
it. People ask me all these
questions. I don't want to remember what

690
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:36.599
happened, and they're asking me,
did this happen? Did that happen?

691
00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:38.079
And I don't know what happened to
me? All I can say is what

692
00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:42.840
I remember, and so that even
is more genuine. You can tell this

693
00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:49.320
guy isn't looking for spotlight and he's
not looking to make assumptions about what happened

694
00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:52.880
to him. He doesn't know exactly
who these things were that he experienced,

695
00:55:53.039 --> 00:56:00.199
but exactly I think that says a
lot, because you know he only from

696
00:56:00.280 --> 00:56:07.559
fact. You read his book.
It differs greatly from the movie and the

697
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:13.880
abduction part, and he himself only
uses the word aliens even and things like

698
00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:17.440
that, because it's the moments,
you know, creature or culture that that

699
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:23.360
people understand, and so he you
know, actually, letsie when it was

700
00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:30.079
November, we went back and he
hadn't been to the site in over four

701
00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:34.760
years, and through a friend of
mine, I met him, and he

702
00:56:34.840 --> 00:56:37.880
took us up on the offer and
took us to the exact location where it

703
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:44.960
happened. And through the whole time
I was observing everything about him and he

704
00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:49.719
it's only kind of something you can
see, like you're saying, like face

705
00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:54.320
to face, because if he's relatively
shy, he's not someone who wants to

706
00:56:54.400 --> 00:57:05.039
draw attention to himself. He doesn't
fit the typical abductee. He's very uh,

707
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:07.480
I don't know, it's kind of
hard to put your finger on you

708
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:12.960
know what I'm talking about. But
he he only became a celebrity and came

709
00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:17.800
out because his story was international.
By the time he came back right after

710
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:22.400
being gone, this story was already
out there. Otherwise I don't think he

711
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:27.159
would have ever talked to anyone about
it. Right. Yeah, he was

712
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:30.800
on I don't know if you saw
it, but he was on NBC Today's

713
00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:35.639
Show on Saturday. They did a
piece. Yeah, it's online, you

714
00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:38.599
can go google it, and they
did a great job. It was it

715
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:45.440
was really good. Oh cool.
Yeah, it's good that he's back out

716
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:47.800
there. And you know, we've
been talking about different ways that we can

717
00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:52.639
although find this guy, got the
subject out. I would love to see,

718
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:57.599
you know, like like he would
a documentary or something really kind of

719
00:57:57.679 --> 00:58:05.599
just based on the facts and exactly
because what happened to him were real,

720
00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:12.760
what he remembers happening to him,
Well, he was taken by whatever these

721
00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:17.679
things were. It's much more interesting, I mean, to imagine the implications

722
00:58:17.719 --> 00:58:22.639
of what he experienced and if that's
real, I mean, that's much more

723
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:29.320
important than the entertainment piece that they
put together in the movie. Well,

724
00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:35.079
definitely, definitely, And you know, and he's also very understanding to how

725
00:58:35.079 --> 00:58:38.639
it was treated in the movie.
And I just love his book because he's

726
00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:45.480
he's a very articulate academic in taking
a look at all sides, and he

727
00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:49.400
understands, if nothing else to get
the story out, you kind of have

728
00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:52.599
to put it in that vehicle of
Hollywood and you know, make it creepy

729
00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:57.960
and scary and everything and the stories
out there. But now he's just trying

730
00:58:57.960 --> 00:59:01.239
to set the record straight. Yep. Yeah, he said very like you

731
00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:08.320
said, Yeah, he's understanding of
what happened and and that it didn't have

732
00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:16.880
anything to do with the director Tracy
Torment had to do with the producers,

733
00:59:17.920 --> 00:59:22.719
right right. I think I think, uh, yeah, Tom was the

734
00:59:22.719 --> 00:59:30.239
writer and the director. I forget
who the director was, but I think,

735
00:59:32.840 --> 00:59:37.079
yeah, he probably maybe out of
credit in that as well. And

736
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:39.760
you know, but as it goes
through the different revisions of the writers and

737
00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:45.840
they keep adding things and changing things, you know, it's neat to see

738
00:59:45.880 --> 00:59:51.360
his transition and no process and just
coming to accept that, you know,

739
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:54.719
this is based on a true story
and and the really important thing is just

740
00:59:54.800 --> 01:00:00.039
letting people know that something happened.
Mm hm, you know, so I

741
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:06.800
wanted to ask you then. Uh, It's kind of funny how you talked

742
01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:08.360
about you were a fan of the
X Files. You know, you were

743
01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:12.239
into this stuff, like we've talked
about, you know, with your grandfather,

744
01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:15.039
and obviously it was a part of
your life growing up, so you

745
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:23.719
really wanted to be Fox Molder investigating
this kind of paranormal stuff when you were

746
01:00:23.719 --> 01:00:29.679
in the FBI and working for UTAH. Did you ever kind of ask around

747
01:00:29.719 --> 01:00:31.239
where you're like, Hey, is
there really can I do in the X

748
01:00:31.280 --> 01:00:37.480
Files or something? You know?
Did you probably rough? You can imagine

749
01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:44.599
there's things I can't talk about.
Most of it I can't talk about.

750
01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:52.519
I did. I was curious though. Definitely. It's funny that you know

751
01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:57.880
they're in the Behavior of Science units. They have pictures of the staff and

752
01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:02.480
you know that they're in the Academy
and they have one little picture where they

753
01:01:02.519 --> 01:01:07.840
have an alien face. It's kind
of I gets a little joke to them

754
01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:10.840
because I think that's where Mulder was
supposed to come from, with the Behavior

755
01:01:10.840 --> 01:01:17.599
of Science Science Unit or something.
And yeah, I probably heard more outside

756
01:01:17.840 --> 01:01:25.159
so of of the dealings and involvement
there from other people than I than I

757
01:01:25.239 --> 01:01:32.639
did on the inside. So h
yeah, it's I think, you know,

758
01:01:32.719 --> 01:01:37.840
if if anyone wants to know about
any of that stuff, there's there's

759
01:01:37.960 --> 01:01:44.599
lots of documents you know that that
the agency and themselves is released on the

760
01:01:44.639 --> 01:01:51.599
website through the Foyer and one of
the big biles go ahead, sorry,

761
01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:53.920
oh, I was just going to
say, Hoover and his interest in it

762
01:01:53.960 --> 01:01:58.679
as well is right, well know
yep. And then one of the big

763
01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:06.480
FBI files you can find investigating the
pair of normal is into cattle mutilations,

764
01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:13.800
right, and definitely that's no secret
that they were you know, the seventies

765
01:02:13.840 --> 01:02:20.679
did a formal investigations. Yeah,
yeah, which was really interesting, and

766
01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:24.079
I know you guys did an episode
on that and I've only seen parts of

767
01:02:24.079 --> 01:02:30.599
it, but my buddy Checksukowski was
in it with you guys, showing some

768
01:02:30.679 --> 01:02:37.840
of the recent cases in Colorado.
Uh huh, she was, and I

769
01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:45.400
wasn't on that case with them,
Okay, I don't know. I heard.

770
01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:47.360
He's just an amazing, great guy
to work with. I think we

771
01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:55.719
even consulted with Linda Moulton Howe,
who eventually didn't have I think anything in

772
01:02:55.760 --> 01:02:59.960
the show with her. We didn't
interview her or anything, but we talked

773
01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:05.599
to her because you know, Chuck
and Linda and that's that's there, you

774
01:03:05.599 --> 01:03:10.480
know, a whole area of expertise. The particular case though, and like

775
01:03:10.519 --> 01:03:16.920
I said, sometimes these things get
whittled down because of time particular case.

776
01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:24.519
I think in summary we could say
though that particular one was interesting because it

777
01:03:24.599 --> 01:03:35.840
didn't seem to fit the I guess
normal profile for you know, mutilation cases

778
01:03:35.840 --> 01:03:42.960
didn't have the tail signs, and
we were showing different ways that I believe.

779
01:03:43.039 --> 01:03:50.280
In that one, they took kind
of a leather bladder which they filled

780
01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:53.440
with air and showed that these you
know, gases that are trapped after animal

781
01:03:53.480 --> 01:04:01.840
dies can explode a cavity and create
similar tears. But you know, we

782
01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:05.440
always get a lot of feedback from
different people, and some people were thinking

783
01:04:05.480 --> 01:04:10.960
that we were in simulating that all
cases explained that way, and which is

784
01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:15.440
not. So it was just in
that particular case we didn't even have a

785
01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:18.559
you know, a carcass to deal
with because Chuck had been there in the

786
01:04:18.559 --> 01:04:23.360
farm or the rancher that he came
back out I don't know how long after,

787
01:04:23.480 --> 01:04:27.960
and it was gone. It was
completely gone. Yeah, I know

788
01:04:28.079 --> 01:04:30.760
that not the strange. Yeah,
well, I know he has worked on

789
01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:34.280
a lot of cases, and I
personally got to investigate at least one of

790
01:04:34.280 --> 01:04:40.000
those cases, and you know,
reader's reports and everything on the other cases,

791
01:04:40.039 --> 01:04:43.880
and so I'm not sure exactly which
one they were talking about, because

792
01:04:44.840 --> 01:04:49.719
yeah, and so that was kind
of curious because in most of the other

793
01:04:49.840 --> 01:04:57.559
cases there were some where everything was
gone, like all the organs and all

794
01:04:57.559 --> 01:05:00.639
that was left was like a spine
and then and of course like in other

795
01:05:00.679 --> 01:05:06.119
cases, there there were anal cavity
removed, sexual organs, utters and a

796
01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:14.719
tongue and stuff like that. So
uh huh, so big. Yeah.

797
01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:19.360
We were in the UK at the
same time. We were doing a story

798
01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:27.360
on the Beast of Dartmoor and we
were looking for a story with mutilated sheet

799
01:05:27.440 --> 01:05:31.719
that's happening in uh I believe it's
Northern whales. You know. It actually

800
01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:40.199
videoed some lights, you know,
leaving the area and yoah. The fact

801
01:05:40.199 --> 01:05:45.639
that no one has ever been arrested
or let aflone arrested, but that's not

802
01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:49.480
convicted, you know, for animal
mutilations like this, and just so baffling.

803
01:05:49.800 --> 01:05:54.360
Mm hmm. What sort of lights
did you see leaving the area.

804
01:05:56.440 --> 01:06:00.320
We didn't video this. This was
a video that we were looking at that

805
01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:09.920
there's a group. I don't remember
the gentleman's name that it was. It's

806
01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:14.199
kind of a I believe it was
a circular light. There were sheep found

807
01:06:14.199 --> 01:06:17.000
in the area the next day,
but there's a circular light, and I

808
01:06:17.119 --> 01:06:21.760
believe there was some type of a
bean that was coming out in the bottom

809
01:06:21.800 --> 01:06:28.119
of it, and you know,
it just didn't come together, you know,

810
01:06:28.199 --> 01:06:30.360
soon enough for us to get there. And I'd love to be able

811
01:06:30.360 --> 01:06:33.239
to get to one of these cases
where we can actually be able to carcass.

812
01:06:33.480 --> 01:06:39.280
Yeah. It's kind of kind of
hard though, when you know you've

813
01:06:39.320 --> 01:06:43.320
got approval and you know, working
in entertainment and getting a story all set

814
01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:45.760
up, the location and everything like
that, you know, it takes a

815
01:06:45.800 --> 01:06:49.360
little bit of time, right,
Yeah, And that's what's hard with cattle

816
01:06:49.440 --> 01:06:56.639
mutilations and why you know, a
real netcropsy done in the time I should

817
01:06:56.679 --> 01:07:00.760
be done, it's never really happened
because sometimes in ranchers don't find them till

818
01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:03.800
a couple of days later. So
to be able to get to it in

819
01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:09.519
an air two is very difficult.
Now, in the Arizona In case you

820
01:07:09.719 --> 01:07:14.880
do your first episode, we had
Jeff Willis on actually a couple weeks ago,

821
01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:18.679
where we talked with him a bit
about that, and your guys went

822
01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:24.440
out and videotaped what they feel is
as a UFO video. Now, you

823
01:07:24.519 --> 01:07:30.199
weren't with them that night. I
was not. Unfortunately, I would have

824
01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:35.000
loved to be at that one because
I always wanted to go out. You

825
01:07:35.039 --> 01:07:41.360
know. I feel bad because Bill, Larry, all those who are on

826
01:07:41.440 --> 01:07:45.079
that case or either out of the
country. Larry's on a honeymoon right now.

827
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:47.320
So I was trying to get a
hold of them, trying to get

828
01:07:47.320 --> 01:07:51.920
some specific information. But no,
I wasn't with them. But I do

829
01:07:53.079 --> 01:07:59.360
know more or less what happened.
It went out and you know, interviewed

830
01:07:59.440 --> 01:08:03.599
Jeff, they conducted their experiments.
At this point. They were they were

831
01:08:03.639 --> 01:08:10.519
feeling like, if you want to
do to hoax this video, you know

832
01:08:10.599 --> 01:08:14.440
you you probably could have done it
there, you know, with without much

833
01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:16.399
trouble. But that's the case with
a lot of different videos. It doesn't

834
01:08:16.439 --> 01:08:23.840
mean that it was. They didn't
find anything significant at all that would have

835
01:08:23.920 --> 01:08:29.720
indicated that Jeff was being accepted though, and so they did a night investigation,

836
01:08:30.640 --> 01:08:35.640
and our producer actually owns the production
company, was out there. O.

837
01:08:35.640 --> 01:08:41.399
This guy is a big skeptic,
and I'm trying to get him into

838
01:08:41.359 --> 01:08:46.560
the UFO. He ah, he
just will, We'll shoot you down kind

839
01:08:46.600 --> 01:08:53.239
of right and left because he just
doesn't really I guess to even have that

840
01:08:53.239 --> 01:08:57.680
that open mind together. But anyways, while they were on the ground looking

841
01:08:58.119 --> 01:09:02.399
one of the theories of courses for
you guys out there in Arizona, what's

842
01:09:02.439 --> 01:09:09.640
the first thing people say? Flares? Right right, military players June flights

843
01:09:09.640 --> 01:09:13.960
were flares everyone, that's official response. Well, they were out there with

844
01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:21.119
metal detectors. They were out there
with infrat cameras and things trying to look

845
01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:28.239
around the ground in the very area
where you know, Jeff had been filming,

846
01:09:28.319 --> 01:09:33.039
to see if, by chance,
there was any sort of debris,

847
01:09:33.760 --> 01:09:40.439
you know, the the chemicals that
they looked for when I can't remember off

848
01:09:40.439 --> 01:09:45.760
the top of my head, tronconium
or something that the flares are made of.

849
01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:51.199
When all of a sudden, they
captured on one of the infrared cameras

850
01:09:53.199 --> 01:09:59.159
this object that was pretty far distant, but it was traveling at such a

851
01:09:59.359 --> 01:10:04.479
rate that you know, Larry called
out to the others. Our producer was

852
01:10:04.520 --> 01:10:10.840
there. They you know, the
footage that you see in the show came

853
01:10:10.880 --> 01:10:15.439
from the locked off infrared camera.
Now this isn't it's not a thermal imager.

854
01:10:17.399 --> 01:10:21.319
We do use those now for locked
off shots. But this was just

855
01:10:21.560 --> 01:10:28.960
your standard infra red camera. And
I'm trying to picture it in my head.

856
01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:32.880
I believe it traveled from right to
left and then you see what you

857
01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:40.359
don't see is off frame. It
made this one eighty almost and came back

858
01:10:40.399 --> 01:10:46.760
the offosite direction extremely fast, and
they were all just blown away with it.

859
01:10:47.720 --> 01:10:51.000
I mean, if it didn't resemble
or behave in the way of the

860
01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:57.640
delight that Jeff was. But it
made no sound it. You know,

861
01:10:57.840 --> 01:11:02.960
all the probably there hadn't been at
least ten crew, you know, plus

862
01:11:02.960 --> 01:11:08.199
our team that was out there,
that no one had ever seen anything like

863
01:11:08.239 --> 01:11:12.880
this before. No one could explain
it. So what did the skeptical producers

864
01:11:12.880 --> 01:11:17.760
say about that? Well, I
think he gave an interview afterwards and even

865
01:11:17.800 --> 01:11:24.119
talks about I don't know what it
was. I know that it wasn't a

866
01:11:24.159 --> 01:11:27.640
plane, you know, but I
don't know. We're kind of winning him

867
01:11:27.640 --> 01:11:33.319
over a little bit. Was he
on the show. Then you mean on

868
01:11:33.359 --> 01:11:38.560
the show like the producer. Yeah, on camera at all, No,

869
01:11:38.439 --> 01:11:43.239
no, no, yeah, because
everybody was really excited they had on camera

870
01:11:43.359 --> 01:11:46.880
that was that was kind of neat. Yeah, it is. And when

871
01:11:46.880 --> 01:11:50.399
you were able to do something like
that, it's like, whether we're investigating

872
01:11:50.439 --> 01:11:57.479
a ghost case or UFO, it's
just icing on me, you know,

873
01:11:57.600 --> 01:12:04.600
because it is difficult to under time
restraints and things to be out somewhere and

874
01:12:04.640 --> 01:12:11.159
to hope that you're going to capture
something on film. Have you what investigations

875
01:12:11.199 --> 01:12:17.560
have you been on that you've that
have kind of floored you? Well,

876
01:12:18.680 --> 01:12:24.960
the ones that I've been on kind
of deal with. The ones that I

877
01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:31.960
have seen things I can't explain are
probably the ghost cases. I more and

878
01:12:32.079 --> 01:12:40.520
more we're doing historic UFO things.
We're going back, you know, several

879
01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:44.439
years now. Kind of a little
plug for what's coming up on March twenty

880
01:12:44.479 --> 01:12:53.159
third. Our first case involves the
Battle of la and I really wanted to

881
01:12:53.399 --> 01:12:57.720
see this one, you know,
go longer, and we might do that

882
01:12:57.760 --> 01:13:00.000
in the future and have you know, our long shows, because this is

883
01:13:00.119 --> 01:13:11.359
just so you know, historic nineteen
forty and it's really interesting some of it

884
01:13:11.439 --> 01:13:17.800
that we uncovered some of the I
guess without giving away too much the possibilities,

885
01:13:18.199 --> 01:13:21.720
I guess I should say that I
never considered what I had looked into

886
01:13:21.760 --> 01:13:29.640
this case before. Gotcha, that's
pretty cool. It's a big case.

887
01:13:29.680 --> 01:13:31.640
Of course, just in time or
at least when it comes out, I

888
01:13:31.640 --> 01:13:38.239
guess it'll be, or just in
time possibly for the movie Battle La.

889
01:13:38.359 --> 01:13:42.399
Yeah. We didn't even know that
the movie was coming out, oh really

890
01:13:43.439 --> 01:13:48.399
until yeah, until we had started
the research and production on this episode.

891
01:13:49.119 --> 01:13:55.640
So it's paired up with a case
of the Queen Mary in Long Beach.

892
01:13:56.319 --> 01:14:01.960
There is a ghost video, and
then we have the historic photograph nineteen forty

893
01:14:01.960 --> 01:14:10.840
two that we're looking into and we've
we've talked to It was kind of my

894
01:14:11.119 --> 01:14:15.800
kind of project that I just one
of those I want to see this one

895
01:14:15.880 --> 01:14:18.760
done. I met with Scott Littleton, you know, one of the eyewitnesses

896
01:14:18.800 --> 01:14:24.760
who recently passed away. Actually early
in the year, I met with him

897
01:14:24.760 --> 01:14:29.600
and got his first hand account when
he was I believe eight years old,

898
01:14:30.920 --> 01:14:34.159
and what he saw, and we
were going to use him as one of

899
01:14:34.159 --> 01:14:40.359
the witnesses. And we called up
as his wife called his home and his

900
01:14:40.439 --> 01:14:45.640
wife answered and said that he just
passed away. It's hard to find eyewitnesses,

901
01:14:45.199 --> 01:14:53.279
right, you know, to that
story anymore. But it's action packed.

902
01:14:53.880 --> 01:14:56.079
I don't want to get in trouble, like I said, for giving

903
01:14:56.079 --> 01:15:01.079
stuff away, but let me just
say this. We attend to shoot some

904
01:15:01.359 --> 01:15:06.600
artillery into the air. Oh wow, it was a lot of fun.

905
01:15:06.920 --> 01:15:13.479
Cool. Yeah, that would be
That's a hard part though, with trying

906
01:15:13.520 --> 01:15:16.520
to do kind of the ghost hunter
thing with UFOs, you can't really do

907
01:15:16.640 --> 01:15:20.880
that. I mean, you guys
got extremely lucky out in the Arizona Desert

908
01:15:20.880 --> 01:15:27.119
to get something, but it's so
far and few between, and typically historical

909
01:15:27.279 --> 01:15:30.560
cases, any that you may take, even the Battle of Los Angeles,

910
01:15:30.800 --> 01:15:39.279
that same event is not repeated exactly. The events are always different. So

911
01:15:40.439 --> 01:15:44.119
you can't go to LA and hang
out and wait for something to fly over

912
01:15:44.159 --> 01:15:48.560
and artillery and start shooting at it. There are some great hot spots,

913
01:15:48.560 --> 01:15:54.840
as you know, around the country, but most of the people were there

914
01:15:54.880 --> 01:15:58.239
investigating them. I'm very protective.
I mean, you've got Bigelow and skin

915
01:15:58.319 --> 01:16:04.359
walk around and right it had Phillipson
in Morley Woods, and yeah, people

916
01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:08.800
don't want to give up locations.
They don't want to access and I really

917
01:16:08.840 --> 01:16:12.880
don't blame them. I mean,
yeah, we get a lot of trespassers.

918
01:16:13.159 --> 01:16:16.680
Yeah, and but you're right,
if you want consistent phenomena that appears,

919
01:16:17.279 --> 01:16:21.000
it's difficult to find with UFOs.
Yeah. Well, you know what,

920
01:16:21.119 --> 01:16:26.239
the first place I had my sighting
was Hooper, Colorado and the sam

921
01:16:26.560 --> 01:16:30.640
really at the UFO Watchtower, and
she would definitely love to have you guys

922
01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:34.680
there. Oh wow, that might
be a good quest. Yeah, UFO

923
01:16:34.760 --> 01:16:39.239
Watch Shower and Hooper, Colorado and
the San Luis Valley, and there's a

924
01:16:39.279 --> 01:16:43.439
lot of sightings out there, a
lot of them. That's the one that

925
01:16:43.479 --> 01:16:47.600
they referred to as Witch Mountains as
well as No, it's outside of Crestone,

926
01:16:47.680 --> 01:16:51.439
Colorado. I've never heard of anybody
referred to it as which mountain.

927
01:16:51.520 --> 01:16:58.680
But there is Blanca Peak there where
people feel that the sightings are sort of

928
01:16:58.720 --> 01:17:02.479
centered around. Okay, yeah,
beautiful area. You'll have to check that

929
01:17:02.560 --> 01:17:08.920
out. And she's definitely likes to
have people coming out. She's very open,

930
01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:13.199
which, like you said, can
be not the norm. Well,

931
01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:15.920
I do want to hear though about
some of the ghost cases that have really

932
01:17:15.920 --> 01:17:25.000
blown you away and some of what
you've seen there. Okay, my probably

933
01:17:25.199 --> 01:17:28.640
the one I always talk about.
The one that just blew my mind was

934
01:17:30.560 --> 01:17:39.159
I was in Indiana and we're investigating
the video that someone claimed that they were

935
01:17:39.239 --> 01:17:45.119
having experiences in their home. The
wife said that the husband was sitting at

936
01:17:45.159 --> 01:17:49.560
the breakfast and down comes the stairs
this man dressed in a full Civil War

937
01:17:50.199 --> 01:17:55.439
costu or outfit, and she waved
to him and then went out walked out

938
01:17:55.479 --> 01:18:00.119
the door. And so they've been
seeing this ghost in their house. And

939
01:18:00.199 --> 01:18:04.279
they tracked down who lived there before
them and found that he was buried in

940
01:18:04.319 --> 01:18:10.560
the cemetery really close by. So
they went there and they were reviewing the

941
01:18:10.640 --> 01:18:14.560
video of their kind of ghost times
they did that night with this paranormal group,

942
01:18:15.279 --> 01:18:18.279
and they see this light that comes
zipping by them really fast. Now

943
01:18:18.640 --> 01:18:23.880
we called it a ghost train.
They think it looked like a night watchman

944
01:18:24.960 --> 01:18:28.439
with a lantern, but it went
so fast it was the strangest thing.

945
01:18:28.479 --> 01:18:30.920
They didn't see it with their eyes, only when they played it back.

946
01:18:31.279 --> 01:18:38.399
So we were out there in the
cemetery and I got this ceiling that it

947
01:18:38.439 --> 01:18:43.920
was a very still night. It's
kind of those creepy, almost Hollywood type,

948
01:18:45.079 --> 01:18:49.560
you know, the old rusty gate
Civil War tombstones everywhere, and it

949
01:18:49.680 --> 01:18:56.079
was in the middle of this kind
of grove of forest. And when I

950
01:18:56.319 --> 01:18:59.920
was in between filming, going back
to grab something to eat or whatever,

951
01:19:00.960 --> 01:19:04.680
I would hear leaves wrestling. Like
every step that I took, I would

952
01:19:04.680 --> 01:19:12.359
hear something about five feet away,
and you know, I would look down

953
01:19:12.439 --> 01:19:15.279
on the ground and wait, and
then it would stop and take another step

954
01:19:15.399 --> 01:19:19.880
and again it was almost like a
circle five feet away from me. I

955
01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:27.119
got my flashlight and I honestly saw
a pile of leaves in front with no

956
01:19:27.239 --> 01:19:31.199
wind. Saw the whole pile of
the press in the shape of the footprint.

957
01:19:32.119 --> 01:19:40.640
Wow. I ran and I got
my director, brought him back and

958
01:19:40.680 --> 01:19:44.399
I said, you have to see
this. And as we tried it and

959
01:19:44.479 --> 01:19:48.399
took a step, I saw individual
leaves moving as if someone picked them up

960
01:19:48.399 --> 01:19:55.840
with their fingers and scooted them across
the ground or flip them over. Looked

961
01:19:55.840 --> 01:19:59.479
like one leaf like got picked up
and turned over and sat back down.

962
01:20:01.720 --> 01:20:06.520
Oh yeah, yeah. We we
both ran out of the cool and then

963
01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:12.680
and we actually captured one of the
events on tape. Now, I always

964
01:20:12.720 --> 01:20:15.720
tell people that there were there was
only one thing that I did see,

965
01:20:16.319 --> 01:20:21.800
some type of a centerpiece that moved
one of the leaves, and we also

966
01:20:21.880 --> 01:20:27.720
caught that on tape. But you
know, as I explained to people,

967
01:20:28.680 --> 01:20:31.520
the way that I was seeing these
leaves move, I don't think it is

968
01:20:32.479 --> 01:20:36.680
you know, possible at all.
But the place was just insestive with insects

969
01:20:36.720 --> 01:20:40.680
and removing all these leaves, because
I would have seen more than just that

970
01:20:40.800 --> 01:20:47.279
one. So anyways, it's interesting
how these ghost cases too kind of blend

971
01:20:48.560 --> 01:20:54.520
over into you know, the UFO
and induction cases, and it's so hard,

972
01:20:54.600 --> 01:20:58.920
in fact, without saying which case
investigated. I was as recently,

973
01:21:00.319 --> 01:21:04.520
you know, back East, and
it was so hard to tell whether we're

974
01:21:04.560 --> 01:21:11.800
dealing with a poultergeist or we're dealing
with an actual abduction or some type of

975
01:21:11.800 --> 01:21:17.479
interdimensional beings. You know, I'm
pretty convinced that this family was experiencing something

976
01:21:17.760 --> 01:21:24.600
real. But you know, I
think in the paranormal field, people tend

977
01:21:24.640 --> 01:21:30.319
to put themselves in different categories like
cryptozoology and bigfoot. They want to be

978
01:21:30.359 --> 01:21:34.279
over here and be dealing with living, breathing animals. They don't want to

979
01:21:34.319 --> 01:21:39.960
be blended with UFOs, right,
But there's a lot of evidence coming out

980
01:21:40.119 --> 01:21:45.960
that it's possible you know that bigfoot
sightings do have something to do with UFOs,

981
01:21:46.840 --> 01:21:49.279
So I don't know, it's kind
of fun to see all sides of

982
01:21:49.319 --> 01:21:53.720
it. Yeah, it's interesting looking
back in the files, you know,

983
01:21:53.880 --> 01:21:59.479
and exactly what you're talking about where. And I think it was David Perkins

984
01:21:59.520 --> 01:22:01.199
one of the people who was the
first to kind of say, hey,

985
01:22:01.520 --> 01:22:08.880
we got to quit leaving stuff out
because the bigfoot people were leaving out.

986
01:22:08.960 --> 01:22:12.439
When when the people said, oh, I saw this creature and then that

987
01:22:12.560 --> 01:22:15.960
night I also saw a bright light
flash by or vice versa. The guys

988
01:22:15.960 --> 01:22:20.239
would go out and take a UFO
report and then omit it when they said,

989
01:22:20.319 --> 01:22:24.039
yeah, and I think I saw
this upright, you know, Harry

990
01:22:24.039 --> 01:22:28.399
Beast walking through the forest also where
you know, starting to say, hey,

991
01:22:28.439 --> 01:22:31.000
you know, we need to be
sure that we're including on either side

992
01:22:31.039 --> 01:22:42.399
every weirdness that happens during these investigations, uh huh. Especially it's the difficult,

993
01:22:42.479 --> 01:22:46.239
difficult thing because you know, we
all have to work to try to

994
01:22:46.239 --> 01:22:51.399
get past our agenda, you know, and whether we're trying to prove or

995
01:22:51.439 --> 01:22:57.960
debunk something, to try to get
to that neutral place and to have our

996
01:22:57.960 --> 01:23:02.680
mind open to all the possibilities.
Mm hmm. Is there something that really

997
01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:09.680
as being part of the show,
some sort of phenomena that you're more open

998
01:23:09.800 --> 01:23:19.399
to than you were prior to working
on the show or vice versa. Yeah.

999
01:23:19.479 --> 01:23:28.520
Yeah, I was really afraid,
I guess to admit that I had

1000
01:23:29.159 --> 01:23:33.159
any belief and kind of an interdimensional
type thing. And I still don't know

1001
01:23:33.199 --> 01:23:39.960
where I stand on it until you
know, I maybe actually see something for

1002
01:23:40.039 --> 01:23:44.159
myself. But if I think about
it, I have a strong belief in

1003
01:23:44.159 --> 01:23:46.359
the afterlife, and I have a
strong belief that the life on the planet.

1004
01:23:47.279 --> 01:23:55.079
So this idea that that some you
know, I guess entities or spirits

1005
01:23:55.079 --> 01:24:01.039
can pass in between and using some
type of you know, dimension that they

1006
01:24:01.159 --> 01:24:05.319
all travel or something that really,
you know, kind of bothered me.

1007
01:24:06.119 --> 01:24:13.159
But some of these cryptic cases,
I think it's kind of opened my eyes.

1008
01:24:13.199 --> 01:24:15.560
And some of the abduction cases that
are kind of in the middle between

1009
01:24:16.079 --> 01:24:24.399
poltergeist and abduction, you know,
there's something going on something there that is

1010
01:24:24.479 --> 01:24:28.960
really interesting. I think our technology
is just starting to catch up to be

1011
01:24:29.000 --> 01:24:34.720
able to actually document some of this. That's exciting. Yeah, and you

1012
01:24:34.760 --> 01:24:39.079
know, I agree that you know, if you're going to keep an open

1013
01:24:39.079 --> 01:24:42.840
mind. You really got to keep
an open mind to any of these possibilities,

1014
01:24:42.880 --> 01:24:46.039
which is uh, it's been great
Jacques Barret, who is one of

1015
01:24:46.039 --> 01:24:51.600
the first researchers to talk about,
you know, the interdimensionality site possibly being

1016
01:24:53.039 --> 01:24:56.720
a part of all of this,
and he got some heck for that.

1017
01:24:57.279 --> 01:25:03.279
But now that he's been a little
more active and written his recent book about

1018
01:25:03.600 --> 01:25:11.239
historical situations that could fit in that
court of category as well, you can't

1019
01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:16.960
you know, you can't uh discount
that possibility. No, you can't,

1020
01:25:17.079 --> 01:25:23.239
you can't. And then you have
the other extremes, which you know,

1021
01:25:23.680 --> 01:25:27.920
considering actually trying to maybe write a
book on my thoughts about this. But

1022
01:25:28.359 --> 01:25:32.239
the other dream is believing everything that
happens and everything you see, and without

1023
01:25:32.279 --> 01:25:38.079
applying a scientific process, basically,
you know, it cancels it out.

1024
01:25:38.119 --> 01:25:42.520
If you believe in in everything,
then really you believe in nothing, you

1025
01:25:42.520 --> 01:25:49.800
know, so it can't all very
then. Believe me, I spend a

1026
01:25:49.800 --> 01:25:54.439
lot of time thinking about this when
I'm traveling on the plane, and oh,

1027
01:25:54.479 --> 01:25:57.000
I know what you mean, because
I feel that way too, that

1028
01:25:57.159 --> 01:26:00.680
people who believe in everything you know, I like to ask, well,

1029
01:26:00.680 --> 01:26:04.039
how can you believe it in these
things that are contradictory. You know.

1030
01:26:04.800 --> 01:26:08.840
Of course, even in this field, a lot of this stuff is really

1031
01:26:08.880 --> 01:26:12.760
dogmatic. There's the people who believe
this is what's going on with the UFOs

1032
01:26:12.800 --> 01:26:15.800
and ets and that's it. And
there's another group that feels that they have

1033
01:26:15.920 --> 01:26:19.119
the answer, which is totally different
than these guys, and some people who

1034
01:26:19.159 --> 01:26:23.159
believe everybody, including both of these
groups. And it's like, well,

1035
01:26:23.159 --> 01:26:26.960
how can you believe it's all of
these things at once. You've got to

1036
01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:30.720
have at least some discernment. Well, then you have. That's why the

1037
01:26:30.760 --> 01:26:34.840
detractors, you know, of the
field are. You know, they bash

1038
01:26:34.920 --> 01:26:40.680
on for not applying science and that
science can never be used to study this

1039
01:26:40.920 --> 01:26:45.119
because you know, it is elusive. But we have to try. I

1040
01:26:45.159 --> 01:26:50.079
mean, if it's ever going to
be accepted as a legitimate field, you

1041
01:26:50.079 --> 01:26:56.600
know, studied universities and accepted,
then you have to do your very best

1042
01:26:56.640 --> 01:27:00.960
to try. Yeah. Yeah,
it's you know, I know we don't

1043
01:27:01.000 --> 01:27:05.560
have much time either, but I
spend a lot of a lot of my

1044
01:27:06.159 --> 01:27:12.119
contemplating thinking about technology because you know, this kind of what the whole show

1045
01:27:12.159 --> 01:27:17.159
is about. Really, we are
able in our day and time to have

1046
01:27:17.399 --> 01:27:21.399
at our fingertips, cell phones,
and nearly every cell phone has a camera

1047
01:27:23.000 --> 01:27:28.840
fan quarters, you know, every
everywhere we go. Now, I think

1048
01:27:28.920 --> 01:27:34.520
this increase in UFO sidings might have
a lot to do with the facts that

1049
01:27:34.560 --> 01:27:41.239
we just have the technology to capture. The technology can be our greatest friend

1050
01:27:42.000 --> 01:27:46.720
and our worst enemy, because if
you look at YouTube or online and see

1051
01:27:46.880 --> 01:27:50.199
all of these videos, I mean, we're look at the samest case we

1052
01:27:50.319 --> 01:27:56.319
have now in Jerusalem, right,
you know, these life people have become

1053
01:27:56.439 --> 01:28:04.680
so desensitized to seeing, you know, alien movies or hoax videos that people

1054
01:28:04.680 --> 01:28:09.520
have made, which are so easy
to make. Yeah, you can get

1055
01:28:09.560 --> 01:28:15.079
into after effects and do something you
erase the exit file and then claim that

1056
01:28:15.079 --> 01:28:18.319
the original videos gone right, you
know, and so the person's left thinking,

1057
01:28:18.359 --> 01:28:24.520
well what now? They're so easy
to make that there's this disconnect,

1058
01:28:24.560 --> 01:28:30.880
I think because I've always maintained,
well what's up who here pretty much at

1059
01:28:30.880 --> 01:28:35.199
a time. Sorry about that,
Yeah, but I know what you're talking

1060
01:28:35.239 --> 01:28:41.319
about because we talked about that same
thing very often. So it's going to

1061
01:28:41.359 --> 01:28:44.520
be a lot of fun to see
you at the UFO Congress next week.

1062
01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:46.960
You'll be there to talk to people
and kind of sign autographs and things for

1063
01:28:47.119 --> 01:28:53.399
a couple of days. I will
if filming schedules as is, I will

1064
01:28:53.439 --> 01:28:57.239
be there from Wednesday probably Saturday.
Awesome. We it'll be fun to see

1065
01:28:57.239 --> 01:29:02.920
you there and we'll get a talk
some more because it's kind of fun getting

1066
01:29:02.960 --> 01:29:05.840
into these investigations. You know,
you kind of have the same ideas and

1067
01:29:05.880 --> 01:29:11.680
everything. So we're really excited to
meet you. And thank you so much

1068
01:29:11.680 --> 01:29:15.479
for being on the show. Thank
you for having me. Appreciate it.

1069
01:29:15.119 --> 01:29:18.920
Talk to you later, all right, that was a lot of fun to

1070
01:29:19.039 --> 01:29:24.399
have been on the show. Next
week we're going to have Stan Romanek who's

1071
01:29:24.399 --> 01:29:26.960
also going to be at the Congress, and we're going to try to bring

1072
01:29:27.039 --> 01:29:30.199
him on on the video too,
so you'll have to check that out.

1073
01:29:30.520 --> 01:29:33.920
But anyway, thank you for being
here. To listen to Open Minds Radio

1074
01:29:33.960 --> 01:29:39.319
your UFO news. Be sure to
talk or check out Open Minds to that

1075
01:29:39.439 --> 01:29:43.560
TV for the latest in UFO info, and we will talk to you next

1076
01:29:43.600 --> 01:31:21.159
week. Audio is smooth tachos to
to to Pat Totu, so he's a

1077
01:31:21.359 --> 01:31:23.720
did that and that will