WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.720 For thirty five years, Cindy Stumpo has been a female home builder with a 2 00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:07.799 passion for design, a mastery of detail, and a commitment to her crack. 3 00:00:07.879 --> 00:00:11.199 With daughter Samantha Stumpo by her side, I don't need my whole family 4 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:13.599 on a date with me. That's a good note. It's goddymn weird. 5 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:18.359 See. Stumpo Development is the only second generation female construction company in the country. 6 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:22.839 You're crazy, You're a wacko, You're insane. I mean, it 7 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:27.160 just doesn't end together. Cindy and Samantha welcome guest to explore the world of 8 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:31.600 construction, real estate, development, design and more. You're unpredictable. Every 9 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:33.799 time I think I know what you want, you switch it out. But 10 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:37.719 that's what makes your houses all Your need discuss anything that happens between the roof 11 00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:41.560 and the foundation. Nothing is off limits. You truly do care about everybody. 12 00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:43.520 She can yell at, chi can scream, but when you get her 13 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:47.439 alone, she's the best person on the planet. Cindy Stumpo is tough as 14 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:56.399 nails and welcome to Tough as Nails. Cindy Stumpo on WBC News Radio ten 15 00:00:56.520 --> 00:01:00.600 thirty and tonight, we have a special guest. Want to take it from 16 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:03.520 here. We've got Samanthon' showroom. We also showroom. We got we got 17 00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:04.719 Samanthon the showroom. When I go back to the country. You're trying to 18 00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:11.400 buy a new cars. What you're talking about, willis. And then we 19 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.920 have Nelson. Nelson introduced yourself. Hey, I'm Nelson to Peger real Estate 20 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:19.760 Developers, Special guest host and I'm here to learn a little bit more about 21 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:23.319 what you're doing. Okay, and who's our guests for receiving. So we 22 00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:27.760 have Adam Tucker, the CEO of Addiction Treatment Center of New England. Glad 23 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:30.079 to be here, thanks for having me. We're talking about, you know, 24 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:36.719 a former addiction specialist for the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy. 25 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:41.719 We're talking about someone who's had the honor of advising the Executive Office of 26 00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:46.560 the President federal level addiction policy. We're talking about someone who owned who holds 27 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:52.879 a master's in professional Counseling from Grand Cannon University and a BA in psychology from 28 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:57.079 the University of Tennessee, Knoxville. So we're talking about a really experienced individual 29 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:01.879 here right Like to Adam, I mean, tell me what's your background. 30 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:07.719 Sure. So, I'm a small town boy from Virginia, born and raised 31 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:09.960 with two parents that were in the education business. I was always in and 32 00:02:10.039 --> 00:02:15.680 around the helping profession, had a love for trying to take care of people, 33 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:21.199 and pursued that due to some personal experiences that I had in my life 34 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:24.319 and has led me to this profession, which is the only thing that I've 35 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:28.520 done in my entire career. I'm gonna I'm just gonna star. I'm not 36 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:31.000 going to get right to the questions here. I just want to talk freely 37 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:36.120 and clearly. Here. We have a massive problem on massif as rightly, 38 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:39.240 and it's not getting any better. And it seems like all we're doing is 39 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:43.319 taking the keyn and kicking it down the road. We moved the people a 40 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:46.280 mile, another mile down the road, another mile down the road. Well, 41 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:49.840 the truth is, I think we've never had this conversation, you and 42 00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:53.719 I. No, Throwing money at this is not the problem. Throwing money 43 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:58.080 to beds and we have facilities is what we need to do. People have 44 00:02:58.120 --> 00:02:59.960 to be housed, and if you want them to get better, right, 45 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:04.400 if they continue and this cannot be a seven day cleanout, because they're going 46 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:07.960 to run right back out exactly. I think we've all known now to get 47 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:12.199 an addic clean, they need a year program, they need a long time, 48 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:15.120 can't. I think it's individual ize treatment, but definitely along absolutely, 49 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:19.800 but the seven two weeks that insurance companies will pay for, and it's getting 50 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:23.919 to a point with insurance companies. Unfortunately, they will not bring you in 51 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:29.479 for dope sic. Because if you're doing any of heroin or any of the 52 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:31.879 painkillers and you stop using them, you're going to be sick for three or 53 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:35.520 four days, like you get the flu and you're back on your feet. 54 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:39.800 Now you know you're doing benzos alcohol. You can die coming off benzos. 55 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:44.280 You can die coming off alcohol. I think you're going to find the insurance 56 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:46.199 companies as we go down the road. I'm not going to take you in 57 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:51.800 for heroin or the painkillers, which is going to be a problem for me. 58 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:55.400 But addictions, addiction, unfortunately, the insurance game is a tough one 59 00:03:55.479 --> 00:03:59.479 right now. You know they want to pay for the physical withdrawal symptoms, 60 00:03:59.719 --> 00:04:01.159 and when the person is able to physically that's it. Out the door, 61 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:03.680 you go, yep, out the door, you go. May the force 62 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:08.479 be with you and we'll see you again in three months, right exactly, 63 00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:12.280 or when it gets cold in Boston, you need a bed exactly. Okay, 64 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:14.919 I've played this game a long time. I've been in construction for thirty 65 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:17.839 six years. Union and non union. The only difference I can say is 66 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:21.839 the unions to take care of their guys at one point, I can't speak 67 00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:25.680 now. I've been out of the union for twenty years, eighteen seventeen years. 68 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:30.319 But it was a time that they got them in places and they bought 69 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:32.360 some of their own facilities to house their own guys, to get them better. 70 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:36.959 But this is becoming a bad epidemic. And the other problem is we're 71 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:44.000 losing too many kids. We're losing too many adults, young kids, young 72 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:47.879 people to overdoses. Yeah, this is not nineteen eighty two. You did 73 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:50.639 a line of coking, you didn't die. It's not you did it. 74 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:55.560 You know. Now these kids are buying anything on the streets and slays with 75 00:04:55.560 --> 00:05:00.319 fatanol even in add medication something it. And these kids, I don't know 76 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:04.079 that they're playing with fire. They're taking a thirty eight. They're putting in 77 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:06.839 the head with one bullet and spin it and let's see if the bull goes 78 00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:10.759 in. Right. The recreational drug use is a thing of the past. 79 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:13.199 Right, It can take you out one shot, one shot. Ye. 80 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:16.120 Now, do I believe that there are kids that can use recreational drugs, 81 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:19.879 Yeah, I do. I mean I stawted my generation. Sure. But 82 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:25.079 eventually, if you've got that personality, that recreational drug is going to take 83 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:29.360 you over. And that's it. And I do believe that some of some 84 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:32.720 of us have that addictive personality and some of us don't. Ye. Fortunately, 85 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:35.279 it's going to catch you a lot quicker now with the drugs supply and 86 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:39.399 they just you ever meet a business where they want to kill their clients? 87 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:43.199 Never understood this business any want to kill your clients. It's very different. 88 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:46.800 So it's when I go back. This is a very sense of subject for 89 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:50.399 me too, Okay. And when I went back, when we go back 90 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:55.680 thirty years ago and I was out raising money, I was already six years 91 00:05:55.720 --> 00:06:00.360 into my business and could do this. I was twenty twenty three I started 92 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:03.839 my company. So let's say I lost a brother at twenty six. He 93 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:10.040 was twenty eight, So twenty nine I was heavily involved raising money for drug 94 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:14.120 addiction homes. You would have thought I was asking for I don't know, 95 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:16.879 Jesus Christ all Mighty to come down. The answer would always be no, 96 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:21.160 No, we don't give those causes it And these are my friends. We 97 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:26.639 will give for breast cancer, this, that, but not now. Now 98 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:30.160 we all have children. My daughter's thirty six now right, and those parents 99 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:35.319 the Newton Brookline area that we lived in, now they started to feel the 100 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:40.360 last ten years of their kids getting involved in Now it's an easier pull and 101 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:43.120 an easier play to get money. But prior to that, I was like, 102 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.439 yeah, you know, we don't give tactics that would piss me off 103 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:48.600 because nobody decides, hey I want to go up and be an addict. 104 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:53.079 Doesn't work that way. Okay, Yeah, it's a very stigmatized disease. 105 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:56.399 And unfortunately, and you're a low life and you're this and that, and 106 00:06:56.399 --> 00:07:00.920 it's a disease. Let's call it what's it's a disease, the mental illness. 107 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:02.920 As far as I'm concerned, I put under the mental umbrella. Now 108 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:05.959 you take it from there. I'm just saying that it was always a hard 109 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:10.959 cry to get help. Sure, yeah, absolutely, to support these houses. 110 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:13.480 Yeah, like I said, it's it's a very stigmatized disease. Unfortunately, 111 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:15.959 people have done a lot of research now that as has caught up with 112 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.759 the times and people are starting to understand it. However, the stigma is 113 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:20.319 still large and in charge over top of it, so it keeps people out 114 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:24.120 of treatment. Right, I stigmatize my own disease. I don't want to 115 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:26.319 go into treatment because I don't even want to admit to my family that I 116 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:29.639 want that I have this issue. So a lot of it's held internally based 117 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:31.399 upon everything that's taking place out in the world as far as a disease is 118 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:35.319 concerned. So it's there's still a lot of room that needs to be done 119 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:40.439 in terms of calling a disease, making it a widespread It's not a moral 120 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:43.199 failure here that we're dealing with. And like you said, you immediate the 121 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:45.399 nail on the head. We didn't. We didn't ask for this as a 122 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:46.279 child, right now, They didn't wake up and say I want to be 123 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:48.920 an addict. Right. This is this is a problem of why do we 124 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:53.279 feel bad for the press that gets cancer. We don't feel bad for the 125 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:57.800 press that's sticking a needle in there on right right, But that well, 126 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:00.920 we didn't ask for the cancer, they can stop putting you need Yeah, 127 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:03.360 okay, you don't know that, Okay, So I always say, never 128 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:05.839 spit in the water. You may have to drink. And that's been my 129 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:09.720 philosophy because you don't know when it's going to be one of your children exactly, 130 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:13.560 or somebody that you love in your family. Right, And there's where 131 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.399 the empathy is not there. It's it's getting better. But man, thirty 132 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:20.240 years ago, twenty five years ago, twenty there was no empathy for this. 133 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:22.519 Well, I think the truth of the matter is with the stigma and 134 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:28.480 people again doing research and raising awareness, it's come so far now that I 135 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:31.360 would venture to say there's not many individuals out there that haven't had some relatability 136 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:37.279 to some person that's in the last decade, right exactly Exactly. People have 137 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:39.919 personal experience, whether it's themselves, a loved one, a family member, 138 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:46.960 a friend that they've seen go through this and hopefully they're still alive. And 139 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:50.320 my last question, I'll let Nelson take over the others. You've been through. 140 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:52.840 How many governors now in the state of Massachusetts tried to fight this. 141 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:56.679 So I'm a new bosson boy here, I've been here so you've just been 142 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:01.440 coming on to mea wu ye okay, yep under okay, So keep going. 143 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.120 We also take off because I don't want to. I don't want to 144 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:07.039 lose any seconds. I don't want to lose any time yet. Yeah, 145 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:11.120 honestly, just listen to the conversation between you both. You know, it 146 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:16.960 has me wondering is the government doing enough to combat this crisis? I think 147 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:18.600 there's always all that thought, we've got to go to break and then we'll 148 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:22.000 come right back to that. I'm sending Stumpley you listen to the Nails a 149 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:26.320 w BZ News Radio ten thirty sponsored my floor in Decor, National Lumber and 150 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:37.519 Village Bank, and let the wrong one los in pad in danger to immerse 151 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:43.320 it semen and I'm sending stumbling you listening to Tampa Nails on WBZ News Radio 152 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.960 ten thirty. Let's take it back Sammy Nelson and I guess let's talk about 153 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:52.120 it, Adam, let's do it. So is the government doing enough to 154 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:56.480 combat this crisis? You know, I think they're I think they're going in 155 00:09:56.519 --> 00:10:00.360 the right direction. I think there's always room to do more with the disease 156 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:03.080 of addiction, just because it's so misunderstood, And I don't think it's always 157 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:07.879 the best the best angle to point blame at the government, you know, 158 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:11.200 but I think they're trying, and they're taking on, they're taking on a 159 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:13.759 massive problem, uh throughout our country, and it's uh, it's tough. 160 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:16.080 It's tough to wrap your head around it from a from a state level, 161 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:20.159 from a federal level, even just from a from a family system's point of 162 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:22.200 view. So again, I don't know if I want to point fingers at 163 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.440 anybody, but I think there's always room to expand in terms of what we 164 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:28.559 need to do. But Okay, that'll be the finger points. So yeah, 165 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:30.960 go for Itkay, you don't. You can be politically correct. I 166 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:33.559 don't have to be politically correct. I do blame our government. I do 167 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.000 blame our states and cities and towns because there is more we can do. 168 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:41.320 Come on, we can't stop this. We don't stop this because there's too 169 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:45.360 much money involved. There's a lot of money involved. And yeah, like 170 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:46.159 I said, I think there's more to do. I think there's more that 171 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:52.799 can be done perhabs that people can I have friends that literally the last excuse 172 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:56.960 me, last five to seven years have spent millions on their children to get 173 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:03.320 them clean, right, have taken family money because when you stop, sure, 174 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:07.600 right, but we can't get a kid clean or an adult clean unless 175 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:11.840 they want to get clean. Point. And the work's going to be put 176 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:15.120 into it, right, hard work. And I've seen guys, especially in 177 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:20.600 construction, go twenty years end up in the hospital because they hurt their back 178 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:22.960 or whatever. They give them morphine. They come out of the hospitals and 179 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:28.799 they're back running at fifty years old again or sixty. It bites them right 180 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:31.639 back, It doesn't. You can have all that time and then you're right 181 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:35.000 back on the pony right like that time never even lapsed that you were clean. 182 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:39.480 Yep. It's a chronic progressive relapsing disease is what we call it. 183 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:43.039 And you if you have a period of abstinence and you relapse, you go 184 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:46.000 right back to where you came from, just as if you've been using the 185 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:50.720 whole time. Exactly. So when we talk about methadone mile in Boston, 186 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:52.519 if you asked me twenty years ago if I thought I'd ever see this, 187 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:58.799 I would have left. I was at absolutely not. What have I seen 188 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:01.000 this in areas like Chelsea before I would have saw this mass out you know, 189 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:03.879 I mean under the bridges in Chelsea where back in the day, that's 190 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:09.200 where they were selling everything and anything they could. Yeah, but mass Ave 191 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:13.519 I never I never saw this copy. Are you telling me there's no place 192 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:16.919 that we can house them like in ear if we took them to ear Mass? 193 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:20.919 Ear Mass. Let me ask this question. Ear Mass used to have 194 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:26.519 all these old Armi barracks. Are those Armie barracks still standing around or have 195 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:30.559 they been demolished and rebuilt? You'd have to tell me. You'd have to 196 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:35.399 tell me. I remember being ear masked about twenty three years ago, Miles 197 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:39.759 ear Barrick. You know what I mean, like empty boarded up New Hampshire, 198 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:43.000 boarded up places. There is a place to put them. There's a 199 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:46.919 place to put them, you know. I think unfortunately it's it's it's a 200 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:50.279 housing issue, but it's a it's an it's always that we don't have enough 201 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:54.639 good help to go around. Also, that's a piece of it, you 202 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:56.519 know. And I could talk about the various aspects of treatment and what it 203 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:01.919 takes to really involve somebody in quality individualized care, and the truth of the 204 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:07.519 matter is the level of acuity of individuals that are down on mass av Right 205 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:11.279 now, it's going to take complete wrap around services for those individuals so we 206 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:15.759 can get them clean. There's there's what's called a housing first model, which 207 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.240 is you get them in a house, you get them in a residence, 208 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:22.799 and that takes care of their first step of care right. And however, 209 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:26.559 what they find is in the house they continue to use right because they're not 210 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:31.440 stable mentally, physically, emotionally. And so there's that aspect of it. 211 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:35.080 There's a spirituality aspect of it. There's a family system's aspect of it that 212 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:39.360 goes into all this, and that's you can't just chuck money at that, 213 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.840 right. That takes individuals that have been trained that can that can provide this 214 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:50.000 certain aspect of that individual's disease. And it's time. It's it's a relationship, 215 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:52.120 right. I can't dive in with you. I'm a therapist at heart, 216 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:56.120 That's how I got into this business. I can't begin to help you 217 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:00.879 until I even begin to develop rapport with you. So how would you even 218 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:05.039 begin to dig down into these individuals that are at mass and casts. You 219 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:09.840 can't even begin to have a relationship with them because of their level of instability. 220 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:13.759 So it's going to take it's going to take a complete effort from all 221 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:16.879 aspects of care because the truth of the matter is, even I imagine putting 222 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.000 yourself down on the mass and cast right now, every single moment that you 223 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:24.279 were down there, you would acquire more trauma, right, you would acquire 224 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:26.840 more trauma. I can't even drive down that street without having trauma. Can 225 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:28.799 you imagine living on it? No? Right, So, because I'd never 226 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:33.200 say anything like this, this is this is like I went down with my 227 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:35.960 bodyguard because I was afraid to go down myself. But yeah, it was 228 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:39.679 like walking zombies. It was like it was like a movie. Sure, 229 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:41.799 it's like a scary movie. It was a terrible yep. And so trauma 230 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:46.320 change changes, sorry, changes the brain, right, and it changes how 231 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:52.120 the brain functions. And so these individuals are in a non stop fight or 232 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:56.879 flight stance, right, and so to to even get them to a perspective 233 00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:58.919 where they could see outside of that, it's going to take a lot. 234 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:05.440 So we're not just looking at a one size fits all blanket cover to fix 235 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:07.000 these individuals. We're gonna have to have people that go down there. So 236 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:11.200 what what is really the plan the governor brought you here. Nope, the 237 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:13.720 government had brought not bring me here. I worked for the federal government for 238 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:16.679 a period of time, and then once my contract ended, I moved to 239 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:20.519 the Addiction Treatment Center of New England, where I work now as a CEO. 240 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.440 We're an outpatient treatment program set in Brighton and that's that's my full time 241 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:28.000 gig now. And how much does it cost to come through your program? 242 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:33.279 So we're a state program. We have Medicare, Medicaid, it's it's insurance 243 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:37.919 based, it's it's very cheap. Yeah, so we we how many times, 244 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:43.840 you know, getting drugs? Like what was the place down the Cape 245 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:48.480 Sammy Gosne Gosnell back in the day, used to be a good place. 246 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:52.879 Right now they're just pulling tennis balls over with drugs in it, right because 247 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:54.759 maybe you have to go to jail if you don't go to rehabs. So, 248 00:15:56.200 --> 00:16:00.559 you know, I don't know. I look at there's so much money 249 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:03.120 in the state of Massachusetts. There's so much money here. We're not I 250 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:07.600 recognized that in my time here. Okay, and private people can only do 251 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:14.279 so much. But we could open up beds, we could open up eds, 252 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:17.440 absolutely. What is the plan here? Absolutely? When you meet with 253 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:21.879 the politicians here, what's their plan? Some may better clean up mass ave 254 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:23.840 Yep. Absolutely, So that's a piece of it. And she hasn't done 255 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:26.600 anything as far as I can see. Okay, I haven't been here long 256 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:30.759 enough to see it. I have, I have, so you know our 257 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:34.559 maya has got to do something. Sure, sure, absolutely So I think 258 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.840 about all these people that own that real estate on MASSV right, and they're 259 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:42.519 crying every day like please push this. Sure, what do we do here? 260 00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:45.240 Yep? It's a again, it's a funding from a housing perspective. 261 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:48.279 That's a piece of it. But it can't just be housing, right, 262 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:51.480 It's got to be it's got to be services. So those those individuals down 263 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:56.120 there, the amount of clinical services that they would need, the amount of 264 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:59.960 medical services that they would need, the amount of vocational and employment service. 265 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.039 This right, because you can think about it. If I get a house 266 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:04.319 and I don't have a job, where are you gonna end up? How 267 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:10.480 many people losing on Mass have every day? I can tell you that I 268 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:12.680 can't tell you that number, but I can tell you it is estimated in 269 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:18.680 the last year that we lost over twenty three hundred to opiate overdose. And 270 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:22.759 I just ran outical that we're losing thirty to fifty people a day. Is 271 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:25.599 that true? I wouldn't doubt it. You wouldn't doubt it. Right, 272 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:27.720 just in Massachusetts, just on that one street, honey, just on that 273 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:32.440 one street. Oh my god. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, and 274 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:34.799 it's it's not just fentanyl. Now, there's drugs out there called xylazine, 275 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:38.920 which is essentially a horse trequilizer that I mean, it's again, the drug 276 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.480 supply is a totally different beast, so we could dig into. But it's 277 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:47.079 again I used to think of the past again, It's not nineteen eighty two 278 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:51.480 picking up a grammar cocaine, going out with your friends, having a good 279 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:53.400 time, and everybody's going to come home alive. It doesn't work that way 280 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:57.759 anymore. They just keep cutting with things that want to make it more addictive, 281 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:02.440 more addictive, highly addicted. Like heroin. You do a line of 282 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:04.799 oh, then you're gonna need it because there's something in that that's making you 283 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:10.279 physically. Cocaine wasn't a physical drug. It was more of a mental drug. 284 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:12.640 You like that feeling of feeling like we used to call it the wop 285 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:18.319 wopping Knights like everybody's I love it, blah blah. Now you do a 286 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:19.640 line of coca and you're dead on the ground, following at the mouth. 287 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.720 I mean you know, yeah, let me take you inside of the mind 288 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:26.640 of a substance user, which is down on mass f If if I find 289 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:32.440 out somebody has has overdosed, I want to go to that dealer because I 290 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:34.519 know that's the stuff that's strong that can get me to the level that I 291 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:37.960 want to get to. So they push the boundaries now right, like we're 292 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:41.559 not just using to get high, We're using to get to that point of 293 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:45.079 I mean death, right. They don't want to die, they want to 294 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:48.359 get right there. And so that's a piece of the drug supply down there 295 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.079 right now. And that's that's the name of the game that we're trying to 296 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:53.480 fix. And again, we can't take these drug deals off the streets. 297 00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:00.000 Why I think, Right, But here's what I say, I die from 298 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.920 your drug, you go to jail. I'm dead, you go to jail. 299 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.079 I'm sorry. There's gonna be saying. That's like having a loaded gun 300 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:11.960 of thirty eight and putting it right in his head. That's how I see 301 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:15.000 it. You're not wrong, but yeah, you're not wrong, and we 302 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:18.720 can't take them off the streets. The question is why don't we want to 303 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:22.640 take them off the streets. Why we bust a couple and we put them 304 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:26.559 away and we made an example that to me, I believe that goes way 305 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:30.680 past my pay grade, your pay grade, everybody's pay grade. Somebody makes 306 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:34.119 money off drugs somewhere, and it's so far up that political chain I don't 307 00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:37.599 even know where it stops and stops. But we're going back to break. 308 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.160 I'm sitting stumbling and listen Tough of Nails on WZ News Radio ten thirty. 309 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:45.440 And Right Back sponsored by Pillow Windows of Boston, Next Day Molding and Kennedy 310 00:19:45.519 --> 00:20:03.599 Carpet Welcome Back, Top and Dale Sity Stuff on WBZ News Radio ten thirty. 311 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:07.160 And I'm here with Sammy, I'm here with Nelson, and I'm here 312 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:11.079 with my amazing guest. Right here. You're supposed to introduce yourself, Adam 313 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.799 Tucker, CEO of the Diiction Treatment Center of New England. There you go, 314 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:22.240 Adam, tell us if you could boom step your finger, give me 315 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:26.880 what that looks like for a fix? Yep, that's the question, right, 316 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:32.119 And I think that's what's so hard. Money's no objects. Money's no 317 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:33.799 object. Politicians is going to play with you. Yeah, do what they 318 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.519 whatever you want. Yep, you got the you got the Christmas gift of 319 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:44.880 lifetime. Go ahead, time right, give me it's it's time. It's 320 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.519 time spent with these individuals to learn their story, to learn who they are, 321 00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:52.279 to learn how they got to the point of where they're at right now, 322 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:56.319 and for somebody to show them love that they've probably never had in their 323 00:20:56.359 --> 00:20:59.079 life, because it's going to be the hardest thing that they've ever dealt with. 324 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.359 And so that's time. From a housing perspective, that's time. From 325 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.240 a medical perspective, that's time. From a therapeutic pic. All right, 326 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:07.440 I'm gonna hold you that I've seen good kids come out of bad homes. 327 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.119 I've seen bad kids come out of good homes. Right, sure. But 328 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:15.279 I've always said this, this is just my and I've talked to many doctors 329 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:22.240 on this, but usually the self medicating starts from something at a young age, 330 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:25.799 whether it's anxiety, panic, not feeling confluent in your skin, shy 331 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:32.400 abuse, whether it's been mental, physical, sexual. Okay, I think 332 00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:37.000 most people I've met in my career, my life, and my career, 333 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:41.680 my personal life, most had those underlying problems, right, and they would 334 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:48.079 never diagnose properly, and especially the ones that were sexually molested. Sure, 335 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:53.720 and they ran, yep to run. And it started with hot alcohol as 336 00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:59.680 teenagers than just jump jump jump. Who thought in twenty twenty three we'd be 337 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.720 back to nineteen sixty four in the Boston Commons when I was a little girl, 338 00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.359 right, I was born sixty four, so maybe I was five six 339 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:11.160 years old on the ducks was what were those duck boats? The duck boats? 340 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:12.000 They're still there. Yeah, But I used to be I used to 341 00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:18.480 be scared as a little girl holding my dad's hand looking at all the protesters. 342 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:22.960 No they were they were like daisies and on their heads like whatever, 343 00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:30.640 whippie hippies they were all they were all using those type of drugs. And 344 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:36.279 then I remember watching the movie as another young girl that affected me was Charles 345 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:41.279 Manson and watching that whole movie, right, oh wow, I never want 346 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:42.079 to do that, Like, I never want to be that person. I 347 00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:45.640 don't. All those things affected me along the way to stay away from drugs. 348 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:48.759 And I've never had a drink of alcohol in my life, and those 349 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:53.200 choices were made because I just saw too much bad with it that why do 350 00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:59.119 I can live vicariously through you? Okay? And I do suffer from panic 351 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:02.720 disorders since six years old. So if anybody should go there and self medicate, 352 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:04.319 sure, give me, give me a scotch, give me something to 353 00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:07.519 throw it back and get rid of the panic attack. Right yep. I 354 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:10.079 think that's what's so confusing about it, right, is it's not It's not 355 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:14.039 a blanket disease. Right. I can't say if you have panic disorder, 356 00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:18.079 if you have anxiety or bipolar one, or it's gezo effective, that you're 357 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:22.359 going to choose substances as your vice to be able to escape from that. 358 00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:26.519 That's just not the case. And if it was, it'd be way easier 359 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:29.319 to treat, right, it'd be it would be your normal disease where you 360 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:32.319 go to the doctor and they would say this is what you have. You've 361 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:34.160 got diabetes, this is the treatment for it, and it would lay out 362 00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:37.720 that way. But it comes from so many different directions and maybe no direction 363 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:41.279 at all as to how it got there, that it's not a one size 364 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:45.799 fits all blanket and that's the that's the complexity of it all. So there's 365 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:52.000 not you're not agreeing with mental abuse, not enough love in the house. 366 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:56.359 Oh I'm absolutely agreeing with Oh you are. I am absolutely So that's how 367 00:23:56.359 --> 00:23:57.599 it starts. Basically, there's a piece of that, right, there's a 368 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:00.759 piece of that. There's a piece of that. And again, you know, 369 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:03.319 I don't want to This may seem like a vague answer, but it 370 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:04.960 can come from all different directions. But then you can get the kid that 371 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.720 grew up in the perfect family with mom and dad that loves him or her 372 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:14.079 and a good family, good home, upper class and they're still running too, 373 00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:17.240 and they still end up out on the streets. Well, they might 374 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:19.519 not end up on the streets on mass Ave because mommy and daddy keep fixing 375 00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:23.279 the problem with money because they can well, and let me paint you another 376 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:26.599 picture. We don't always get to see inside of the homes. So maybe 377 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.000 mommy and daddy had money, and maybe mom and dad were there, But 378 00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:33.440 maybe and mommy and dad weren't there, right, Maybe they worked a long 379 00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:37.319 time, and maybe they had a job that pulled them away, and we 380 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:41.440 don't know what kind of emotional trauma that calls for that individual, right, 381 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:45.079 there might be an experience that that kid needed support at that time, and 382 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:48.039 Daddy was at a conference in California. Daddy didn't choose for that to happen, 383 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.519 right, Daddy didn't mean for that to happen. Nobody meant for that 384 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:55.240 to happen. But I don't get to choose how I respond to these traumatic 385 00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:57.160 situations. My brain does, right, My brain says, I need somebody 386 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:00.839 here for me right now, and Daddy's not here for me, right, 387 00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:03.079 And so that's the start. That's one, that's step one, and then 388 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:07.400 other experiences happen where that leads into that trauma, right, and it builds 389 00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:10.400 and it builds and it builds it. Then I get a substance, and 390 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:14.279 that substance is my best friend. That substance allows me to get away from 391 00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:15.960 that because I haven't been able to get away from that. So you actually 392 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:21.400 probably your first love is that substance. It is your best friend, right, 393 00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:23.599 and then it kills you, right, It slowly eats away at you. 394 00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:27.359 And so that's what's so tricky about these individuals getting care, which is, 395 00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:30.519 at one point time, this substance was my best friend, and it 396 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:34.039 took me out of these situations and this trauma and this turmoil that took place 397 00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:37.319 with me, you know, probably internally on a daily basis, and it 398 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.359 slowly eats away at me. And now you're telling me that I can't have 399 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:45.880 that vice in my life and I have to essentially, I have to go 400 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:48.480 back and deal not only do I not get that vice, but I don't 401 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:51.160 I have to go back and deal with that trauma in order to get cleaned 402 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:53.039 somewhere. Wow. And then you're telling me that it's a twenty four hour 403 00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:56.319 disease that I have to train every day. The stone has made a song, 404 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:00.680 Mother's Little Helper, Right, I'm for that song. Right. That 405 00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:03.559 was just to get through having two three kids. Right. Sure, you 406 00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:08.079 know think about this. Back in the day, my mother tells me stories 407 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:11.799 that after you had a baby, they gave you black beauties you could lose 408 00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:15.160 the weight. And then you got a bunch of women running around in their 409 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:19.759 sixties running around cleaning everybody's house. Is the parents, the grandparents, they 410 00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:23.440 lived in three decades because they're all wite out on black beauties. Wow. 411 00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:26.359 And their mothers were giving them the black beauties to help them lose the weight. 412 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:30.480 Yeah, but they didn't know that black beauties were going to be a 413 00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:33.319 dictating They didn't know. You went to the doctors. You were stressed out. 414 00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:37.599 Raised mom went to the doctors. She had three boys fourteen months apart. 415 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:40.599 Pick up a pack of cigarettes to smoke, a pack of you know, 416 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.160 go smoke cigarettes, so it'll relax you. Sure, here's the xanax. 417 00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:47.720 Welcome to the club. There you go, Adam, Let me ask 418 00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:51.480 you a question, right, has this gotten worse over time when you look 419 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:53.960 at the statistics right on a graph? On a graph shater, has this 420 00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:57.039 gotten worse over time? Or are we getting in a better place? It's 421 00:26:57.079 --> 00:27:00.480 getting worse, right, it's getting worse. I think I think it was 422 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:08.200 trending in that direction, naturally. I think COVID expedited it because addiction breeds 423 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:12.279 itself in isolation. Right, it could be my whole family right here, 424 00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:15.880 right, I could have all the support in the world. But if I 425 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.039 don't think I have it, I'm in that state of isolation, right. 426 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:21.640 The only thing I need is that vice. So, and that's all we 427 00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:22.839 had for that whole period of time, which was isolation, right, and 428 00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:26.440 so it only you know, I can't tell me how many people that I 429 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.960 know that that picked up again during COVID that had years and years and years 430 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:36.039 of sobriety due to the fact that they went back to that state of isolation. 431 00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:38.720 So it's only getting worse. The drug supply adds to that. We 432 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.200 had no meetings, Yeah, they were all closed down, all the church 433 00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:45.359 meetings, everything. If you got online you could catch a meeting maybe, 434 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:49.599 but those people need to be a meetings. But you have to understand something. 435 00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:52.519 You go to a meeting and the minute you walk out the door, 436 00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:56.880 this five drug dealer is hustling you. The minute you walk out the door. 437 00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:00.119 Wow, So you go to a meeting to do the right thing and 438 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:03.000 then you walk out the door. And I'd come out with some of my 439 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:06.920 guys. Look, I've left job sites. My guys have needed me, 440 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:11.440 and you know my kids know this. And I've gone in the middle of 441 00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:15.359 two o'clock, three o'clock in the afternoon and grab one of my guys. 442 00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.119 I see is falling, let's go going to a meeting. And that could 443 00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:22.319 have built a really bad reputation for me where I build right Newton Brookline. 444 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:26.799 Joe Dommley, I didn't give two craps what people thought of me. You 445 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:27.839 want to think I'm a drug user, Go, I think I'm a drug 446 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:33.400 user. But I've been asked to leave rooms because somebody would say, she 447 00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.680 doesn't use drugs, and the guy riding the room would say, or the 448 00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:41.720 meeting excuse me, But you're making that press uncomfortable. You are a drug 449 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:44.119 user. No, I'm not a drug user. But see the guy i'm 450 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:45.440 here with, he's going with me for twenty years. I'm going to stay 451 00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:48.400 right by his side. So tell the person that's got a problem that I'm 452 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:52.079 in the room to leave the room. Yeah, okay, or get over 453 00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:56.039 it, because I could really here who's in this room, And I'm not 454 00:28:56.079 --> 00:28:59.400 here to talk about anybody that's in this room. So that's her problem or 455 00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:02.799 his problem, not mine. And I'm not leaving here. That's funny, 456 00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:04.680 I mean, that's that's how I started. I'm not in recovery myself with 457 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.759 my childhood best friend at a young age started using, and I did the 458 00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:10.640 same thing. I said, let's go, dude, you're ass in this 459 00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:11.960 room. I'll sit here with you in the same experience. Right, That's 460 00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:15.279 the only thing I knew, Right, I grew up with parents that were 461 00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:17.680 teachers, and I said, I'm gonna take you to class, Bud, 462 00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:19.480 like, let's go right, And so that's all I knew to do. 463 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:22.599 But it's it's hard, man, being being on the other side of the 464 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:26.200 boat is hard for the individual that has a substant use disorder, but it's 465 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:29.000 also hard for the individuals that are loving them from the outside. No, 466 00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:33.519 absolutely, so, Adam, let me ask you this high level what and 467 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:36.920 what needs to happen in order for us to go down? Right, let's 468 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:38.519 crime. What needs to happen? Yeah, high level? Yeah, boom 469 00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:42.960 boom boom boom yep, let's crime. Money needs to get needs to get 470 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:47.759 spent on the on the supply side of things, the drug dealer side of 471 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:48.920 things, right, we need to there needs to be Hey, hold, 472 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.720 I thought, I'm sorry, guys, I gotta be the rude one. 473 00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:55.400 I'm sinny stumbling you. Listen to the Toughest Nails on WBZ News Radio ten 474 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:57.640 thirty will be right Back, sponsored by new Brook Realty Group, Boston, 475 00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:15.279 would Smaller Insurance World Auto Body and Tosca Drive Auto Body go into Dante into 476 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:21.519 the show, Good Constant and welcome back to Tough Snails. On WBZ News 477 00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:25.400 Radio ten thirty and I'm here with Sammy, I'm here with Nelson, I'm 478 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:27.440 here with Adam. Good Adam, finish up what you're saying just now. 479 00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:30.440 Yeah. Sure. So money needs to get spent on the supply side of 480 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.000 things, right, We need to attack the dealers in the in the drug 481 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:37.839 supply. Money needs to get spent on housing. Money needs to get spent 482 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:44.599 on raising individuals to to want to work in this profession. Right, there's 483 00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:47.799 a very difficult profession to work in. The level of burnout is through the 484 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:52.240 roof Wow, and and and frankly, these are some of the in a 485 00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:55.279 professional terms, these individuals have to have some of the most empathy of anybody 486 00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:57.279 that I've ever seen. So as money's got to get spent on workforce, 487 00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.240 and then I think he's got to get spence on I guess what you would 488 00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:07.400 call like, I'm gonna call it quality treatment. Right. There's tons of 489 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:10.880 treatment out there, There's there's all kinds of access to treatment. But the 490 00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:15.480 end but the care that's actually given to the individuals is it individualized treatment for 491 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:18.119 that person that you're that you're working with, right right, right, right, 492 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.680 And the other problem here Nelson, and you've got small children, and 493 00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.599 where you're from, you have parents like this. I don't think drugs have 494 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:32.799 ever been something that's impacted your family. But it takes one child, one 495 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:37.640 one parent, one person family that will bring down the whole family. You 496 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:42.000 will all come to your knees because of one that's doing drugs, because then 497 00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:48.039 the parents are fighting over that one child, and they're fighting with each other, 498 00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:51.720 and the other siblings are fighting. Every is fighting. One person is 499 00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:53.839 doing all the wrong and the rest are getting effected. That's why they have 500 00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:57.359 something called alan On. And then I did. I went to an alan 501 00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.480 On meeting and I'm like, why am I here? Why am I sitting 502 00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:04.880 this meeting. I'm not the one that needs to help, but you do 503 00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:07.039 because your brain gets so messed up because they'll love you, half of your 504 00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:12.920 family, and you see some self destructing and you can't stop it. We 505 00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:16.599 took Samantha, she was eighteen, less than eighteen seventeen, to we made 506 00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:20.839 it do four or five drugs. She didn't do drugs, but we made 507 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:23.240 her. We wanted her to see and I went with her and her dad 508 00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:27.279 and there was an aisle between us, so her and her father was sitting 509 00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:29.799 next to each other. I had been to enough of these meetings right with 510 00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:32.640 my guys at work, and I'm over on through the aisle, right and 511 00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:37.599 I'm looking at these two crying their rise outyep, because they couldn't handle the 512 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:40.799 stories. But I don't know about you guys, but I watched a movie 513 00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:44.079 in school. I don't know if you had at Sammy. It was called 514 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:45.960 Skid Straight. I know of it. I don't know if I've seen it. 515 00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:49.799 I think they stopped playing it in junior high schools and high schools. 516 00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:52.880 But let me tell you, it impacted me to stay straight. Okay, 517 00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:54.880 so it was called Skisvan. I don't know if they still do it. 518 00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:58.160 But Sammy, do you remember going back those days when you went, when 519 00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:00.200 we took those meetings to show you what can go on if you pick up 520 00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:05.480 drugs? Do you remember sending the crying, hearing the stories. It was 521 00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:07.640 a meeting. Of course, you had a meeting. There you go, 522 00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:13.720 and that's real and in your face. And I think every parent, even 523 00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:19.119 if your your kids could be super straight, bring them, expose them absolutely 524 00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:21.799 to the real world. I've got a three four year old and they're coming 525 00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:23.000 to work with that. Come on, let's check it out. You know, 526 00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:27.880 she was exposed. This is what can happen. This will be your 527 00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:34.559 story. So maybe for the next general bringing the next kids up, subject 528 00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:38.079 them to this, let them make better decisions that they maybe can make by 529 00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:44.240 hearing other people's stories. Yeah, there's a huge education awareness DARE, but 530 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:46.720 I don't think that's the thing anymore. Here was in schools. I don't 531 00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:50.839 think DEAR did much of anything. It's there still, it's pretty few and 532 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:54.319 far between. I don't know how effective DARE was, but I do think 533 00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:59.240 there's a huge piece right now that you know, education awareness and prevention from 534 00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:02.000 a young age age is going to be part of it, right, Like 535 00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:05.599 it has to be. It's critical. It's a critical piece of this. 536 00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.639 And it doesn't even necessarily have to be from you know, I'm gonna scare 537 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:13.559 you out of your you know, you're soon to be substance use disorder at 538 00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:15.360 some point. But like, here's what it is. Here's sort of how 539 00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:19.840 it manifests, and let's just have the awareness and keep an eye on it. 540 00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:22.119 If something was to pop up, right, you know, I think 541 00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:25.400 you know, any sort of mental illness or emotional you know, trauma at 542 00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:29.760 a young age, Get the individual, get the kid help, right, 543 00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:32.679 Like, let's let's catch it early on before it starts to fester and manifest 544 00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:38.360 to where it gets to a point like this. What's your feelings on the 545 00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:44.119 rehab programs when you start flying your kids to Colorado, your husband to call 546 00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:47.400 it to the mountains, and you're spending one hundred thousand maybe a bit more 547 00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:52.840 a month, right, get a bed? Yep. I've seen more. 548 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:57.199 I've seen more people stay clean coming out of the Meridian House, which is 549 00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.840 a hardcore program. You grab and twilage you're cleaning. You don't get this, 550 00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:06.639 you know boushy Okay, linen beds with your vag covers, right, 551 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.760 yep? Yep? Which program to works the best? I think they could? 552 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:13.960 Yeah? Well again, I'm gonna give you another vague answer. I 553 00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:17.159 think they can both work the same. I think it's it comes down to 554 00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:21.719 one factor, which is what is that individual's level of readiness to change at 555 00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:23.559 that time? Right? Because if I push you, I don't care where 556 00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:25.400 you go. If I push you in the Meridian House, if I push 557 00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:29.920 you out to the bougie Colorado beds, if you're still what they call pre 558 00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:31.559 contemplative, which I'm not even that. What that means is I'm not even 559 00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:35.920 contemplating changing at this time. Or maybe if I'm contemplative and I'm just kind 560 00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:38.079 of perusing it around my mind. You know where you're going, right, 561 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:40.840 Like, the individual has to be ready to change in order to do this, 562 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.599 and and and we can't make them. And that's what's so hard from 563 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.159 an outside perspective, which is I love somebody so much that I'm willing to 564 00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:52.599 do whatever I want, whatever I can do for this individual. And truth 565 00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:53.920 of the matter is, I can't do a damn thing about it. So 566 00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:58.719 let's say, okay, somebody goes into McLean's, we get them a bed 567 00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:00.440 for which would happen? We can get you a bed for four days, 568 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:04.480 get you cleaned out, then we had nowhere to put you, right, 569 00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:09.119 Okay. I did notice they would try the hottest to try to find. 570 00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:13.079 Now, if you had good insurance, it's always easy, right. Sure, 571 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:15.920 if you don't have a good insurance, it kind of like stuck. 572 00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:22.079 But I didn't notice that they would find a lot of good place up in 573 00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:28.079 Hampshire where there's you can breathe. It's not the city. You're out there 574 00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:29.920 in the wildlife. You know what I mean, you're out there in the 575 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:32.559 woods, you're out there. Is there something to be said about those type 576 00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:36.039 of programs up there? There is, for sure. I think there's a 577 00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:37.960 big piece of it that where you get treatment needs to be out of the 578 00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:43.119 environment that you got sick. Right, I can't if I got sick on 579 00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:45.119 mass ap and I'm trying to get clean on like, come on, man, 580 00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:47.159 that's not going to work, right, Get me somewhere else, Like 581 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:51.480 it doesn't have to be big and bougie with a private chef and you know, 582 00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:53.360 you know, all the bells and whistles. But but get me out 583 00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:58.400 of get me out of where I got sick. I get to I get 584 00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:00.519 to take a step back, I get to you. I get to get 585 00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:05.320 out of this environment, and I get to assess everything that's taking place in 586 00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:10.559 that environment. So it's another problem. And I'm not sure, but I 587 00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:14.480 mean, you go you stock going to western mass right, here's a mass 588 00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:16.079 it's very cheap. The land is still cheap. Sure, you go up 589 00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:21.519 to New Hampshire. Land is cheap to be able to do this or is 590 00:37:21.559 --> 00:37:24.480 it? We don't want to not backyard attitude. I think there's a piece 591 00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:28.280 of that. And I think I probably need to clarify when I say you 592 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:30.760 got to get out of the environment that get that you got sick. You 593 00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:34.599 know, these individuals that we will go back to Massing Casts, right, 594 00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:37.360 they don't have to leave the city. They probably just need to get away 595 00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:39.159 from Mass and Casts where the hustle and bustle is and where they can't get 596 00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:43.840 out of there and what the drug deals just keep coming by there and selling. 597 00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:45.760 Is that what they're doing. I'm sure there's a piece of that. 598 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:47.320 Right, I'm going to go to wherever the demand is. As a dealer, 599 00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:51.320 you know, it's a business. It's a business, right, So 600 00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.400 where they gained the money? Where the dealers getting the money? No, 601 00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:57.519 we know, we know the dealers get the money. Where these people get 602 00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:00.519 the money, Well, they're homeless, they're homeless. I think. I 603 00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:05.360 think what you got to understand about somebody with substan Choose disorder is they are 604 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:09.119 incredibly resilient and incredibly resourceful, right, I think, And again I'm not 605 00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:13.719 I'm a new bosson boy here, but what I've heard about the mass and 606 00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:16.719 Cast area is that they had these tent villages and they came back and they 607 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:20.079 wiped them all away, right, they took all their tents away. Now, 608 00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:23.239 what'd you find happened after that? They got all new tints exactly right 609 00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:27.760 right the street, right down the street. Right. So they're incredibly resilient 610 00:38:27.800 --> 00:38:31.639 and incredibly resourceful. Like having a job in an income to fuel substance chose 611 00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:36.559 disorder is not a problem for somebody that has that issue. They get in 612 00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:39.119 the cash, they'll make it work, right, they'll make it work. 613 00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:44.599 And again I don't want to get too far down. They don't have jobs, 614 00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:49.400 so they robbing people? What are they doing? Maybe maybe they you 615 00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:53.039 know, they might be collecting cans and selling recycling. Like, they'll make 616 00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:57.920 it work, right, because that that disease is so strong, I'm going 617 00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:00.599 to fuel it. What are they to do over the winter time? It's 618 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:02.000 really cold here. That's tough. What's gonna be the answer? Then? 619 00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:07.880 That's tough. It's uh. Again, we we got to get them in 620 00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:09.760 some sort of housing, even if it's just for like, what's the plan 621 00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:14.320 right now to treat their physical needs? I don't know. I don't know 622 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:15.760 what there is from a political standpoint, right, I can tell you what 623 00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:20.840 what we do at our treatment center. But I can't. I can't tell 624 00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:22.360 you from the political standpoint. I haven't lived here long enough. I haven't 625 00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:29.199 I haven't seen different different mayors. But but I can tell you that that 626 00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:31.599 we're gonna have to get these individuals off the street. Okay, So when 627 00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:37.880 you were working with the White House, Yeah, what EXPERI answers, Well, 628 00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:39.719 that was, man, what what what is that? The lowest on 629 00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:42.719 the TOTEM poll? No, no, no, no, it's uh, 630 00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:45.920 there's there's so many discussions that happened at the same time at the White House, 631 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.440 and what a cool experience that was for me. I got brought on 632 00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:52.280 as again, I'm a therapist by trade. That's how I got into this 633 00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:57.639 game, yep. And I got on to advise their federal level policy from 634 00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:00.880 the perspective of somebody with boots on the ground as a therapist. And so 635 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:06.000 there's tons of different experiences and conversations that they're having, and I think one 636 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.559 of them is housing that that they're looking into in terms of federal money spent, 637 00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:14.559 never gonna happen. They can't get them the streets, right, But 638 00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:16.719 it's good to dream. But we can all dream. But all that thought 639 00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:21.559 I'm Sidy Stumbling listening to Tampa's Nails on WBZ news Radio. Tempory lead right 640 00:40:21.639 --> 00:40:36.920 back, could stay week It's just to agree and welcome back to Tampas Nails 641 00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:39.519 on WBZ News Radio ten thirty And I'm Sindy. I'm here with Sammy, 642 00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:44.679 and I'm here with Nelson. I'm here with Adam, absolutely Adam. So 643 00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:46.239 tell the people how can they reach out to you? How can they connect 644 00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:50.159 with you? So we are We're the Addiction Treatment Center of New England. 645 00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:53.800 We're set down in Brighton, Massachusetts, on the grounds of the bright Marine 646 00:40:53.880 --> 00:41:00.199 Hospital. We are an outpatient treatment program that has medicated assistant treatments, behavioral 647 00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:06.000 health counseling, recovery coaching, and we even have a program that provides transportation 648 00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:07.960 to us. You can you can look at our website. It's a t 649 00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:13.239 c n E dot net as in the Addiction Treatment Center of New England dot 650 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:17.639 net. It's got all of our admission criteria and ways to make referrals to 651 00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:22.679 us. And we're there to help and would love to be able to hold 652 00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:25.159 individuals hands and care. Everybody. Have a great, safe weekend. This 653 00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:29.400 is Cindy Stampo on WBZ news radio ten thirty