WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:04.160 This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to KF I A M six forty 2 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:12.519 the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on demand on the iHeartRadio app Doctor Doctor, Bimmy 3 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:26.320 Lou's I gottas loving you. KF I AM six forty. You have Doctor 4 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:28.760 Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walls Show. I have 5 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:33.240 a PhD in clinical psychology. I'm a psychology professor and I'm obsessed with the 6 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:37.359 science of love. I've written three books on relationships, and I am happy 7 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:40.640 to take your calls. Uh if you want to call the numbers one, 8 00:00:40.679 --> 00:00:44.640 eight hundred and five to zero one KFI. All right, Producer, Kayla, 9 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:46.759 who do we have on the line. We have Lydia with the question. 10 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:51.200 Okay, Hi, Lydia, It's doctor Wendy. Hi, Doctor Wendy. 11 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:56.439 So I have a question. I babysit my grandson who's two and a 12 00:00:56.439 --> 00:01:00.560 half years souls. I pick them up from a private Jewish school twice a 13 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.519 week, and about a month ago I picked them up from school and his 14 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:10.280 teacher came up to me and said something to me that it concerned me. 15 00:01:10.920 --> 00:01:15.439 She told me that my grandson is always hungry, and that he's not taking 16 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:23.120 enough food to school, that she's sometimes having to take some of the food 17 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.959 from the other students and give it to my grandson. So I related. 18 00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:32.599 I related that message to my daughter in law. I told her work her 19 00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:37.760 words, what the teacher had said. The next I told the teacher, 20 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:42.000 can you please also talk to my daughter in law let her know what you 21 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:46.480 just said. Do they have to tell the parent right, yeah, exactly. 22 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:51.239 So I also told my daughter in law exactly what the teacher said. 23 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:53.760 The next day, when my daughter in law went to pick up my grandson 24 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:59.079 from school, the teacher said, oh, no, I did not say 25 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:01.599 that. We wouldn't do that. We wouldn't take the food away from another 26 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:06.519 student and give it to your son. The same person said that. The 27 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:10.680 same person, Yes, how confusing for you. This is a big school, 28 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:14.319 the Jewish school. They pay a lot of money for this school. 29 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:19.199 And I got very upset. I told my daughter in law I am not 30 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:22.520 a liar. I never lie, no, especially about something like this. 31 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:27.719 It still bothers me today because if I go and I speak to someone at 32 00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:30.840 that school, my son the father, I said, Mom, don't start 33 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:34.719 trouble, just leave it alone? How can I leave it alone? This 34 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:37.639 is a big deal. What can I do? It is a big deal. 35 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:40.759 So let me ask you this, Lydia. So does your son and 36 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:45.360 daughter in law believe you? They? Yes, they do, Okay, 37 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:49.080 they believe me. So you're not being doubted by the people who matter? 38 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.240 Right? And I actually think, I mean, I feel like I'm quoting 39 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:55.840 one of those columns from the New York Times, the ethicist who says, 40 00:02:55.879 --> 00:03:00.520 what's the ethical thing to do here? You always have to think when you're 41 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:02.840 trying to make a decision, and it has to do with interpersonal relationships. 42 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:07.960 I always like to say that I play a long game, never a short 43 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:13.599 game. A short game is you going in and getting upset and saying how 44 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:17.680 dare you lie to me? Right? And creating more problems now. A 45 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:25.280 long game is just sitting and watching, being polite, paying attention, taking 46 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:30.719 notes and seeing what's happening. All right, I think you should take a 47 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:35.639 long game here, take your time, see more stuff. But to cause 48 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:39.319 a cause celeb over this when your son has asked you not to is going 49 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:43.960 to cause a problem with your son, maybe a problem with your grandson. 50 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:46.960 And definitely it's going to ruffle some feathers over at the school, so Lydia, 51 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:50.120 this is one of those. As long as your son believes you, 52 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:52.759 you're going to have to suck it up for this one. I'm sorry it 53 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:54.479 happened to you though. That's a terrible thing. But thanks so much for 54 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:59.919 calling. Thank you all. I actually very much agree with you. Thank 55 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.080 yeah, thank you all Right, let me go to social media. Oh 56 00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:08.159 my gosh, look at this one, Dear doctor Wendy. I love these 57 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:11.800 questions because I get to see what's really going on out there in the world. 58 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:16.279 Is it reasonable to ask a friend I hook up with if he's hooking 59 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:20.639 up with anyone at the same time as me? Okay, So, if 60 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:25.519 you understand, hooking up is like a no strings attached relationship, it's a 61 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:32.839 situationship. It's undefined because you're hooking up with no relationship definition. It should 62 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:40.000 be assumed that they are sleeping with anybody somebody else. So it is a 63 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:47.360 highly risky relationship on two levels. One it's risky because the potential to contract 64 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:53.360 an STD right. The other is because I don't actually know if this is 65 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:58.360 a woman or man, Oh yeah's a woman? Is It is very common 66 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.959 that when women start have sex regularly with the same person, they start their 67 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:08.480 bodies emit a lot of oxytocin, and then they start to fall in love, 68 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:11.920 they get attached. That's a big bonding hormone, right, So that's 69 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:15.720 probably why you asked the question. So she says, is it reasonable to 70 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:17.040 ask a friend I hook up with if he's hooking up with anyone else at 71 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:21.160 the same time? For context, now I get some background, She says, 72 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:25.360 I've been hooking up with my friend for the past two months, and 73 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:29.519 I asked him to be hooked up with anyone after me, and he refused 74 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.600 to say yes or no. He said, I'm not obligated to answer that 75 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:38.079 question, and I won't be saying yes or no. Just guys, the 76 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:41.480 answer is yes. Okay, that's why he said that. Yes the answers 77 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:43.279 yes. If the answer was no, he would have just said no. 78 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:47.160 I got very upset because I want to know. I know we're not exclusive, 79 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:51.639 but I still want to know, genuinely. Is this unreasonable of me? 80 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:56.839 Yes, you made a deal, which is I'm not going to ask 81 00:05:56.920 --> 00:06:00.560 you your business and I'm not going to pressure you for a real relationship. 82 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:01.920 I'm going to have sex with you every once in a while, and I'm 83 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:06.360 not going to ask for anything more. But now your body, because your 84 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:10.399 hormones have changed, is making you go, I wonder if he's with anyone 85 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.560 else. I wonder what else is. And you're like, I'm just genuinely 86 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:15.839 interested. Really, no, you're not. You're wondering if there's competition. 87 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:20.639 You're starting to fall for him because your body's doing that, So I wouldn't 88 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:24.480 be in this. I don't think you should be in this relationship. I'm 89 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:29.759 just going to say that because you can't handle it, and most women can't. 90 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:34.079 There's so much research out there to show that men can have sex as 91 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:40.240 a standalone event much more easily than women can. And it's not your fault, 92 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:46.000 but adopting a male model of anything, including male sexuality, is not 93 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:49.279 feminine freedom. I just want to say that. Okay, I think I 94 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:54.040 have time for one more. Dear doctor Wendy. I have a first date 95 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:58.399 tomorrow night, and I already told him I can't stay out late, so 96 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:02.240 he suggested we go out earlier, around four pm, for drinks and food 97 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:06.079 and to watch the sunset. But I'm worried he thinks this date is going 98 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:10.639 to last like six hours? Is that normal? I love those questions. 99 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:13.959 Is it normal? There's no such thing as normal. How long do first 100 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:17.160 dates usually last? Is it rude for me to just cap it after we're 101 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:21.360 done eating and go home? And how do I do that? Wow? 102 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:27.439 Okay, it's so simple. You said you want an early night because you 103 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:30.160 got to get up early. And so what he did is he made the 104 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:35.120 date earlier to accommodate you, so you could go home early and go to 105 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:39.920 bed. So why this idea? Like, what if he expects me now 106 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:43.759 to stay out to eleven with him because I couldn't stay out till one in 107 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:46.279 the morning before. No, it's so that you can cap it off and 108 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:49.199 leave. And how do you do that? You say, thank you so 109 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:53.319 much for the dinner. The sunset is beautiful. I hope we can do 110 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:58.839 this again another time, and you leave. I don't understand the question here. 111 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:01.279 I mean you think he's in charge and he controls everything and in your 112 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:05.920 life. No, you just told him one little boundary you had. Hey, 113 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:07.639 by the way, i'm going to meet you, I can't see a 114 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:09.240 leg an early morning. So he went, okay, we'll meet earlier. 115 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:13.160 He's trying to show you. He's a nice guy and he's paying attention to 116 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:18.160 what your needs are. That's what that is. Okay, one more, 117 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:20.199 I think I have time for one more real quick Dear Doctor Wendy. Oh 118 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:24.160 he's a funny one. How would you feel if your partner tells you that 119 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:28.879 she's going to come over out of obligation. I don't want to feel like 120 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:33.120 an obligation. Then you know what you need to say. I don't want 121 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.679 to feel like an obligation. Don't bother coming over and don't hang out with 122 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:41.720 her. I mean, you're not supposed to go see your loved one because 123 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:45.480 you feel you have to. You should do it because you want to, 124 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:50.759 because it feels good to be in their company. Oh breaks my heart. 125 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:56.000 I would hate to hear that I'll come over. I guess I'm obligated to 126 00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:58.039 you know what, Go away, go find a new person. That's what 127 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:05.600 I say. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI AM six 128 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:09.240 forty. You have Dr Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy 129 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:13.559 Walsh Show. Can we talk about boundaries? Boundaries? You hear people talk 130 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:18.799 about boundaries all the time, but I don't think everybody understands exactly what a 131 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:24.279 boundary is. It's not trying to manipulate another person. It's not trying to 132 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.720 get them to behave in a certain way. It is just a tidy little 133 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:33.799 fence around you that protects you. Now, if you have a fence around 134 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:39.639 yourself and someone comes and tries to push down the fence, hopefully your fence 135 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:46.039 is strong enough that it will stay sturdy and erect even though they try to 136 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:52.759 push down your boundaries. So having good boundaries means keeping good fences. It 137 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:56.120 doesn't mean telling somebody, you know what, I have a boundary now that 138 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:01.519 I am just not going to a allow you to talk to me that way. 139 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:05.159 So what does that mean? What are you gonna do? Right? 140 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:11.480 Here's the thing, No boundary is real, No boundary is official. No 141 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:18.919 boundary will stick unless it's been tested, and once it gets tested, you 142 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:24.519 must have a logical consequence. So instead of saying I'm going to put a 143 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:26.080 boundary up and I don't want you to talk to me that way ever again, 144 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:28.440 you can say I don't know why I do this girl voice. When 145 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:31.039 I do it, it must have been how I talked when I was in 146 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:35.919 my twenties. Instead, you might say something like I find when we have 147 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:41.679 conflict, your tone becomes very aggressive, and that's difficult for me and it's 148 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:45.759 not constructive for us. So I want you to know when I hear a 149 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:50.559 voice that feels very uncomfortable, I'm going to leave the room and close the 150 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:54.279 door and we'll take it up another time when we're both feeling better and more 151 00:10:54.360 --> 00:11:00.360 fresh. That's a boundary. But here's the thing then, and when they 152 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:01.960 do that thing, you can't go. But I told you I have a 153 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:05.159 boundary. I don't want you to raise your voice. No no, no, 154 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:07.799 no no. You don't say anything, You leave the room, you 155 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:13.200 close the door. So part of setting boundaries with people is understanding what the 156 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:18.840 consequence has to be. A logical consequence is not punishment, it's not doing 157 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:26.240 something to them. It's removing yourself from a situation in order to protect yourself. 158 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:31.360 That's a boundary. Now, there can be boundaries in all different kinds 159 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:37.120 of areas in our life. Of course, there are sexual boundaries. I 160 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:39.759 won't do that, and I don't care if you keep pushing me. It's 161 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:45.600 not going to happen, right, Or there could be financial boundaries no, 162 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:50.000 I am not lending you money. Right. It's very important that family members 163 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:56.639 learn to have financial boundaries with each other because sometimes there are family systems where 164 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:00.240 the message is, well, it's family. You have to do that for 165 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.039 family, because that's what family do. Oh yeah, you're all going to 166 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:05.679 go down together. Is that what it is? The ship's going to sink 167 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:09.720 and you're all going to go down together. No, you can have very 168 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:16.200 clear boundaries with family members, with lovers. With children, children thrive and 169 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:20.840 grow with boundaries. Boundaries aren't punishment. Boundaries are here are the rules. 170 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.320 A simple example, a three year old goes into the cookie jar before dinner 171 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:30.120 and you say to them, no, you have to learn to wait. 172 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:31.000 You don't get mad. You don't have to get mad with boundaries. That's 173 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.480 the other thing. You just say, oh no, that's the way it 174 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:35.399 is. It's my policy. Okay, you don't even get mad. So 175 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:39.080 you say no, I'm sorry, we don't have cookies before dinner. And 176 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:41.519 then they're going to test the boundary to see if your words are real, 177 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:43.559 and they're going to try again, and so then you're going to say, 178 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:46.559 well, you know what, I think it'll be easier for you if I 179 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.960 put the cookies up in a high cupboard so that you're not tempted by knowing 180 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:52.960 that you could reach them. Or you might say something like I have an 181 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.080 idea. Since it's so hard for you to wait for the cookie, and 182 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:00.399 you're worried maybe that you're not going to get the cookie after dinner, why 183 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:03.759 don't you choose a cookie now, and we'll put it right on your place 184 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:05.840 setting by your fork, and so you'll see it there and you'll be able 185 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:09.639 to have it after dinner. Right, you come up with these creative things. 186 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:11.799 You don't yell, you don't say you're an idiot? Why do you 187 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:16.399 want it before? You don't have to. You just make change your reaction 188 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:24.440 to the situation. Okay, So, in our most intimate relationships, there 189 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:28.080 are five boundaries that you should never ever cross. The biggest one, and 190 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:33.440 this is the biggest one for me too, is respecting someone's personal space. 191 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:39.840 Here's what I say. Don't open my mail, don't ever go through my 192 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:46.000 purse, and definitely don't open my wallet. Okay, those are three clear 193 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:48.639 boundaries, no matter if I live with you, whether I've lived with you 194 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:54.759 twenty years, whether whatever re respect So, for instance, my daughter lives 195 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:58.159 in Paris and she still gets mail the odd time. A new ATM card 196 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:01.559 came the other day. I take a picture of the outside of the envelopes 197 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:05.600 and I send it to her and I say, do you want me to 198 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.799 open any of these? Right? And then she says yes, which ones 199 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:13.600 throw away? That it's junk mail whatever? Then the ones I open, 200 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.039 I take a picture and send it to her and say, what do you 201 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:18.639 want. That's how you do it, right. You don't just go rifling 202 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.559 through people's stuff. They feel violated, okay, personal space and maybe a 203 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:28.559 cupboard, a room, a bathroom. Don't walk in on somebody when they're 204 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.279 having a shower. Maybe they just want that little bit of privacy, all 205 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:35.679 right. Also ignoring the need for consent. I mentioned sexual consent earlier, 206 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:41.919 but there's all kinds of consent. Making social plans without checking in, spending 207 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:46.200 financial stuff without checking in, just check in. You don't have a friend 208 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.759 who's been single forever and I said why are you single? And she goes, 209 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.720 I just don't want to confer with somebody for every decision I have to 210 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:56.200 make. Well, guess what, that's what relationships are about. You confer 211 00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:03.000 because you're now one, all right. Then there's the old violating emotional boundaries. 212 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:07.720 When you dismiss somebody's feelings or say you don't feel that way or don't 213 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:09.480 feel that way, telling them how they should feel, that's crossing an emotional 214 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:15.440 boundary. Or if you try to guilt somebody into doing something, manipulating them 215 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:22.200 through guilt, that's crossing an emotional boundary. I mentioned financial boundaries before. 216 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:24.240 You guys have to come to a money agreement, okay, and you got 217 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:28.759 to stick to it. But the biggest one, number five me meaning is 218 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:35.720 betraying trust. If they told you a secret, hold that secret. If 219 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:39.440 you have a deal to not have sex with anybody else or not talk to 220 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:45.320 anybody else in DMS on social media, then don't do it. Don't betray 221 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:50.399 their trust, and then you'll have a healthy, happy relationship. You're listening 222 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:54.399 to doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI AM six forty. You know, 223 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:58.200 I have been saying to producer Kayla forever and ever, we need to get 224 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:03.120 a divorce on here, because you know, they hear some dirt. I 225 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:07.120 mean, they hear some really interesting stuff more than a therapist, I think 226 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:11.480 sometimes because it's it's gloves off, you know, and so I got one 227 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:18.639 Sarah in Delligator. She's a holistic family law and divorce attorney and a yoga 228 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:22.279 instructor. So to calm down the couples when they come in and say, 229 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.440 let's just do a little down dog before were not the couples, but my 230 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:33.320 client's definitely. So before we get into your book, because who better to 231 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.399 write a book on how to find good love than a divorce attorney. I'll 232 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:40.919 just say it. The book is called Live, Laugh, Find True Love, 233 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:45.519 A step by step Guide Defining a meaningful Relationship by Sarah and Delligator. 234 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.279 Welcome Sarah, thank you. So before we get into the book. Why 235 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:52.960 you know, people go to law school and they can do criminal law, 236 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:57.960 they can do contract law, they can do fancy entertainment law, and you 237 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:00.639 went, no, I want to deal with fighting couples. Where did that 238 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:04.960 come from? Well, it was actually an accident. I did plan to 239 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:08.720 go into criminal defense. But when I got out of law school and I 240 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:15.359 passed the bar, I applied for jobs at the district attorney and public defunder's 241 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:18.359 offices, and they both had hiring freezes at the time. My mom happens 242 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:22.920 to be a family law attorney. I needed a job. She knew someone 243 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:26.480 who was looking for an associate. I had no experience with family law other 244 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:30.279 than studying for community property on the bar exam. Yeah, never took a 245 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:34.319 community property class in law school. So I just kind of fell into it. 246 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.559 And why did you love it? You fell into it, but you 247 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:42.400 fell in love with it, obviously. I absolutely hated it. Actually, 248 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:48.079 for the first five years I worked for a firm, I found it soul 249 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:52.759 crushing, hated it. Went off on my own and then when I realized 250 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:59.480 that I could kind of create my own niche and bridge my two worlds, 251 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:03.759 essentially my world as a yoga instructor and my world as a family law attorney, 252 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.119 and I coined the term holistic divorce and family law to describe my style 253 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.799 of practice, where I could kind of take care of my clients going through 254 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:14.799 the process, handhold guide them to a better place. Then it became very 255 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:17.559 fulfilling and meaningful to me. You know, years and years ago. If 256 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:18.839 you don't know my story, A lot of my listeners know that I'm a 257 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.960 survivor of domestic violence. And at one point I went to see a family 258 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.440 law attorney because I was trying to get him out of my house and I 259 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:30.960 didn't know how, and he literally said to me, you know, we 260 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:36.440 family lawyers don't usually deal with this. We just deal with like division of 261 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:40.880 assets. And I actually don't know how you get him to move out. 262 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:44.920 And then it gave me a bill. So that's as far as I got 263 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.599 with that. Oh my goodness. He didn't tell me about restraining orders. 264 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:52.000 He didn't explain about how to get a move out order from a judge. 265 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:56.400 Not all the things I learned many many years later that I do so much 266 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.759 of the family law. Family attorneys do so much to message violence litigation unfortunately. 267 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:06.759 So before we get into divorce in general, let's talk about love. 268 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:10.599 Yes, so you see couples again. The book is called Live Laugh, 269 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:15.440 Find True Love. You see couples at their worst. Do you ever ask 270 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:18.920 them about their love story and how they fell in love? Do you wonder 271 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:22.559 how they got to this place? I don't really ask them. They volunteer. 272 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:27.640 I feel like when people come in for their consultation and when I'm working 273 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:33.039 with them, they just the floodgates open and they divulge so much about their 274 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:37.960 personal stories. And so that's how I've kind of learned where things went wrong 275 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:42.920 by just seeing these patterns over and over and over again, and there really 276 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:47.160 are something to do. So I wrote a book years ago called the Boyfriend 277 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:49.839 Test, How do we evaluate his potential before you lose your heart? And 278 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:52.480 I was reading your book and I was like, Oh, it's the same, 279 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:59.960 all the same advice. Right, It's so much easier to leave earth 280 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:04.480 early than it is to become attached. And then and so we have this 281 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:08.839 problem in our culture called romantic love, or we are falling in love with 282 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:14.160 strangers that have not been preapproved by the tribe. And this is problematic, 283 00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:18.039 right, So you kind of have a step by step guide, and in 284 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:22.000 fact, you call the five fail factors. These are the five things, 285 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:26.359 and I'd like to go through them bit by bit by bit y of what 286 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:30.200 you think people need to do at the beginning of relationships so they can avoid 287 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:33.640 divorce later. And the first one is fundamental values. What do you mean 288 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:41.039 by that? Fundamental values are one's core principles, something that so defines someone 289 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:47.960 and what he or she values that it sort of guides what he or she 290 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:51.240 does in life, what they're looking for in life. Things like that and 291 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:57.519 so like. For example, religion is a fundamental value. A political belief 292 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:00.559 might be a fundamental value. Think, ye, there are people that write 293 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:04.119 on their dating apps will not date a Trumpster, or it will not date 294 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:07.759 a lib Dard. You see it. They write it right on their things. 295 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:11.039 They know what they can live with. Mine happens to be gender roles. 296 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:15.960 Is that for the longest time, I had my own patriarchy swimming in 297 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.079 my head, and I used to think men do this and women do that. 298 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:21.319 And then I realized how hard life was as a single mother for all 299 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:26.599 those years. And then one of my fundamental values became equal division of household 300 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:33.200 domestic responsibilities. And no guy is going to sit there ever and tell me 301 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:38.920 to do the dishes anymore my life. Actually, my fiance happens to love 302 00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:44.160 laundry and dishes, so I'm really lucky keep him and I have a love 303 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:47.480 to cook. So we're all good there. Good, okay, So fund 304 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:49.440 you have to make sure you have fundamental values. And one of the other 305 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.079 smart things you say in your book, which I also mentioned to the boyfriend 306 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:59.279 test, is how do you do that you ask you interview ladies, you 307 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:03.119 are I'm talking to you ladies men too, But ladies you have the eggs. 308 00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:07.279 You're accepting applications. You are interviewing for the role of best friend and 309 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:11.880 lover and maybe even father. Right, So you've got to ask the questions. 310 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:17.759 How do you ask questions about somebody's fundamental values when your heart is pounding 311 00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:21.680 in, your lower parts are throbbing, and you're looking into somebody's eyes that 312 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:26.559 you met on bumble Well, So in the book, I actually there's an 313 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:33.720 exercise that is geared toward that, and what I ask people do is first 314 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:37.319 define their fundamental values, and then once they've defined their fundamental values, go 315 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:42.200 through with each fundamental value that you've identified and list a series of questions. 316 00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:47.279 You're not going to bring this list with you into your date, but bring 317 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:52.799 us spreadsheet and check off those things. But you you now, by writing 318 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.440 them down, have them in the back of your mind, and so you 319 00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:59.279 can kind of summon them and pepper them into the conversation as you're going through 320 00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:03.799 your date, and you could dass them in flirty ways. It can be 321 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:06.440 fun. It should be It should be fun. You're on a date. 322 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:11.759 Yeah, you're listening to doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI AM six forty. 323 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:17.640 My guest is divorce attorney Sarah Intlligator and intelligator. I just love your 324 00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:21.400 name. You pronounce every single vowel in it. It's just a beautiful name. 325 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:25.799 You sound so intelligent, I hope so, and like an alligator intelligator. 326 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:30.559 Yeah. Her book is called Live, Laugh, Find True Love. 327 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:34.039 A step by step guide to finding a meaningful relationship from a divorce attorney. 328 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:38.279 So one of the things I found really interesting is that you say that in 329 00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:42.759 the early stages of dating, people do tell you who they are, but 330 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:47.279 so many people put blinders on. So when you see divorce and couples, 331 00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:51.200 do you want to say sometimes like didn't you know this at the beginning? 332 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:55.640 A lot of them actually tell me that they did see those signs and they 333 00:23:55.839 --> 00:24:00.839 ignored them. Ah, it's so common. I mean, one of the 334 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:04.799 questions that I get asked so many times is how can I trust myself to 335 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:08.279 date again? If I made the wrong decision in the past, and I 336 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:15.160 try to remind people you didn't make the wrong decision. You knew it was 337 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:19.079 the wrong decision. You can absolutely trust yourself because you just didn't listen to 338 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.000 yourself. If you listen to yourself next time, You're not gonna make the 339 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:26.440 wrong decision. Now, a therapist might say, you know, it's all 340 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:30.680 well and good to say just make better choices, But I'm a big believer 341 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:36.839 in for many people, they can't make those choices because they haven't dealt with 342 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:40.039 a lot of stuff from their past, and they do need to have a 343 00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:42.200 wingman, that is a therapist, a licensed therapist, the next time they 344 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:47.119 go out there, so that when those early red flag shows up, they 345 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:51.359 can move away from it, right, Because you know, love is not 346 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:56.599 about finding happiness, it's not about finding the pleasure. It's about finding the 347 00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:03.680 familiar. Right, so we will constantly recreate some of our relationships from our 348 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:08.599 early childhood if we do not sort this out now, Sarah, you wrote 349 00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:12.640 the book to keep people out of your office. Yes? Are you getting 350 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:18.480 tired of all the business? Yes, I'm just I'm a total masochist. 351 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:22.079 I'm trying to destroy my business. Now. I have been through my own 352 00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:26.759 divorce, and I've watched countless people go through theirs, and I've watched how 353 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:33.160 financially and emotionally costly it can be, and I've personally experienced it, and 354 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:37.440 so to me. If I can prevent others from going through it, and 355 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.039 their children in particular from going through it, then you know what I'm okay 356 00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:45.480 with losing business. And we should say that Sarah may have gone through her 357 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:48.880 own divorce, but she's remarried, has four year old and another one who 358 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:53.119 she brought to the studio in uterow. It's about ready to come out. 359 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.519 This one right, could come by the end of the show. Yes, 360 00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:00.000 very exciting. Congratulations to you. You do so also do a chapter on 361 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:04.920 narcissists. Now, there is so much debate about what percentage of men are 362 00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:10.000 narcissists, as some of the numbers I see say as high as seven percent. 363 00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:14.039 Men who are narcissists don't go to therapy. They also don't sign up 364 00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:17.839 for scientific studies, so it's very difficult to generalize these kinds of numbers. 365 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:19.920 Some of the low numbers are one percent, one in one hundred. But 366 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:26.720 you can bet your bottom dollar that they're on dating apps and they're not in 367 00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:32.119 healthy relationships, and they're dating and they're trying to find the next victim in 368 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:36.319 some way. So what do you say to women or or even men dating 369 00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:40.559 female narcissists? How do they spot them early on and move along. It's 370 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:44.640 a great question. I don't think there's any fool proof way to do it. 371 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.599 I think that there is kind of You have to be very observant, 372 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:51.720 you have to be very aware. You have to make sure that you don't 373 00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:55.519 have those blinders on. Like you were saying earlier on that you're really being 374 00:26:55.599 --> 00:27:00.839 honest with yourself. Somebody who is extremely charming, body who puts you up 375 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.440 on a pedestal, but not to flatter you, to flatter themselves. Somebody 376 00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:08.000 who needs to suck all the energy out of the room and be the center 377 00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:11.640 of attention at a party. Everyone grab very charismatic right at the beginning, 378 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:17.599 super charismatic. You're only going to see the best of the best until you're 379 00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:22.200 not giving this person the attention, and that's when they start acting out. 380 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.359 So it is difficult to identify in the beginning because in the beginning you're giving 381 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:30.039 each other all the attention. What I always say is if it's too good 382 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:33.920 to be true, it's probably not true, right. And if it's too 383 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.799 much too soon, right, pace it and see what happens. The narcissist 384 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:40.920 doesn't have patience. Usually they want to get in and control in any way 385 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:45.920 they possibly can. So you can definitely just slow things down and spend some 386 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:51.559 time. I'm also a huge believer in make sure every date as before you 387 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:55.440 fall deeply in love, meets your people, your friends, your family, 388 00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:57.799 somebody, because you need another set of eyes on this. You can't be 389 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:02.160 making these decisions loan in a vacuum. Sarah. I used to host a 390 00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:06.960 show for Investigation Discovery called Happily Never After, and it was about brides and 391 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:08.960 grooms who murdered each other. Oh fun. We had to work really hard 392 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:12.680 to find the brides. Usually it was the grooms and one hundred percent of 393 00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:17.720 the time they eloped, there wasn't family around. It wasn't a big way. 394 00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:22.960 It was like this whirlwind thing, sign this insurance policy, life assurance 395 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:26.920 policy and let's go to Vegas and that How people fall for that is obviously 396 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:30.480 amazing. But we desire to be loved, Yes, yes, we all 397 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:33.960 want to be loved, but we need to be loved in a healthy way, 398 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:37.400 and we need to love in a healthy way. Exactly. Okay, 399 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:42.480 So before we wrap too, the most salient two points from your book that 400 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:52.279 you want every single person to know, know your worth and expect the best 401 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:59.680 for yourself based on knowing your worth and your sense of self worth. At 402 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:02.640 the end of the day, isn't it about loving yourself first and having that 403 00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:06.079 kind of self confidence to go No, I'm not going to put up with 404 00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:10.720 this behavior and knowing that that person, that man, or that woman where 405 00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:14.519 the red flags are waving, They're not the last partner on the planet. 406 00:29:14.839 --> 00:29:18.599 Now there's another one a thumb swipe away. So just wait till you get 407 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:22.400 there, take your time. Yeah, don't let the fear control you. 408 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:29.240 Exactly. So I want to close by saying, you practice holistic family law, 409 00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:33.559 holistic divorce. What are the features of a holistic divorce. I am 410 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.160 looking at the whole person and the whole situation, not just billable hours. 411 00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:41.480 Obviously, I have to do my job. I have my ethical obligations to 412 00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.839 my clients. But I am trying to get this human being and honor the 413 00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:48.480 human experience and the litigation process. I'm trying to get this human being to 414 00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:52.839 a better point when they leave my office than they were in when they got 415 00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:56.440 there in the first place. So, whether that's connecting them with therapists or 416 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:00.960 guiding them using the tools and yoga teacher toolbag, whatever it may be. 417 00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:06.160 Just making sure that the whole person is taken care of in the process. 418 00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:08.319 It sounds wonderful. I think we need more of you in the industry. 419 00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:11.799 Thank you. The book is called Live, Laugh, Find True Love, 420 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.960 a step by step guide to finding a meaningful relationship. The author is Sarah 421 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:21.960 Intelligator, just like it sounds intelligence with an alligator. Yeah, if you're 422 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:23.039 going through a divorce, maybe she's the one to call. Thank you, 423 00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:26.279 Sarah for being here. Thank you for having me, and it is always 424 00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:30.319 my pleasure to be with you on Sunday evenings. You can always follow me 425 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.960 on my social media at doctor Wendy Walsh or come on into my Patreon zoom 426 00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:38.640 room on Wednesday nights. That's patreon dot com slash doctor Wendy Walsh. But 427 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:42.039 I'm always here for you. On KFI, you've been listening to the Doctor 428 00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:48.039 Wendy Walls Show on KFI Am six forty. We Live Everywhere on the iHeartRadio 429 00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:52.960 app. You've been listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can always hear us 430 00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:56.519 live on KFI AM six forty from seven to nine pm on Sunday and anytime 431 00:30:56.599 --> 00:30:59.799 on demand on the iHeartRadio app,