What is krack Alakian hardwonosis? Because I am Damp Valley coming at you without my fantabristro host Adam Bambo this time, I am, however, super pleased and excited to be joined by great friend and my colleague, Every Church or Grant Hughes. Follow him on Twitter at gt Underscore Hughes. We are beginning our series on every NBA team's most underappreciated slash underrated player this season, specifically, but also taking into account some big picture stuff. Of course. A quick note we recorded this on Thursday, March seventeenth, so if there are any breaking news nuggets that we missed, we didn't do so on purpose. I am just traveling, so we wanted to have these evergreen pods in the bank for you. Conversation was a lot of fun in depth. Let us know what you think very quickly. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast. If you've not done those things already. If this is your first time checking us out, consider throwing us the permanent subscription. We cover the league at lot large. We are pleasantly thorough and seriously un serious. A lot of entertainment around these parts though, so please consider coming back and follow us on all the socials. We're on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter. You can find those links in our podcast description. Definitely join our discord. We have plenty of room. There's a bunch of members in there, but there's still room for more. We have great discussions there. That link is in our podcast description. We are also on YouTube. You can find us there as well. Without further delay, let's get to every Eastern Conference team's most underrated slash underappreciated player this season with Bleacher Reports Grants Grant. Welcome back to the Hardwooknos Podcast. This has to be at least your fifteenth or twenty fifth, or thirty fifth appearance on this podcast. We love having you back as always, thank you for returning. How are you doing. I'm doing great. I never know what to say when you ask I'm doing because we've always talked for like fifteen minutes before this, so I'm still doing great, and every time feels like the first time, so even if it's fifteen, I'm always happy to be here. That's the sweetest thing that literally anyone's ever said coming on this podcast, and it's so much better to hear than oh you again or this podcast again. We are going to do some positive basketball thoughts and we're locking these in. Since this is being like this is evergreen content, we are locking this in as a March seventeenth at the start of the March Madness Tournament. People won't be listening to this until whatever day Monday is. I think the twenty first, what have you? We're doing our our most underrated, underappreciated whatever player from every NBA team starting with the Eastern Conference, and that means we're gonna go We're gonna try and go in alphabetical order. But whenever I go in alphabetical order, I'm liable, like weird shit's liable to happen. So we're gonna try and stick to alphabetical order. You have the Atlanta Hawks, sir, Yeah I do, so I picked okay, yeah, so underrated, Well we should I mean, just off the tip off, off the jump, we should say, like if a player is underrated, and you're saying he's underrated by definition, you're saying my rating of him is the proper one, which is that he's good or better. So it's like you create a straw man and say I think he's better than you think he is, more or less. Like that's what So I think, really, what I'm saying is what this is going to come down to for me in a lot of cases, and this is one of them, and as I'm looking down my list, a lot of them will be this way. I just like this guy and I don't feel like he's regarded for whatever reason as you know, being the level of player that I think he is, and like these aren't all stars obviously, but anyway, so that's that's a little preamble. I like a Kongwu just because part of it because those guys that we don't have a lot of sample size with because he's kind of been behind a couple, you know, more established players and Clint Capella and John Collins. He's had some injuries both as a rookie and this year, but I loved him in the draft just as as a theoretical piece, like a kind of undersized dish center that could move, but could defend the rim, could switch a little bit. So all that's kind of to be determined. But what what I have this year, And some of these stats are a couple days out of date by now, but the Hawks are plus seven net rating with him on the floor, and that's mostly coming on defense. You know, you can see his rim protection is really good. He's at like fifty eight and a half percent inside six feet as the primary defender, which is better than Capella and better than Collins. All these are small samples, and all these are you know, subject to well, who's trying to score over him? It's probably backups, but still like that's compelling to me. And there's a couple of games ago he guarded Janice for twelve field goal attempts and Yannese made two of them, so anecdotally, actually that's January. I'm sorry, that's not a couple of games ago still happened. So there there's what is time. It's flat circle, So there's anecdot little stuff. You can watch him the way he moves around, and there's a theory of him as an understized center, which everybody wants. Who can you know, switch and guard the room. I just think that's a really valuable player type. I don't know really what he's going to be offensively because it's still so early, but I do think he's definitely a center. I think, you know, if they try to shoehorn him in as a four. I don't like it as much, but yeah, really good backup basically right now that I think Obviously his draft pedigree too says there's there's kind of some runway for him to be a lot more than that. Yeah, I think he's going to be really good. And because he is a center, and I think that's just pretty clear, and he's a center that does more than just there's more to his offensive arsenal than just rim running or a lob catching, like he can do some one dribble stuff and take some shots a little bit further away from the basket, not so much that you trust him with a jumper or to stretch the floor. Hence he's a five. They might have some interesting decisions to make looking at John Collins and Clink Capella moving forward. He would have been my pick two that I've done this team, and I think he could be someone who's really valuable to them in the playoffs, where he does feel more matchup proof than at Clint Capella or even a John Collins on defense, just because of his mobility on that side. Before. Yeah, I think too he's a better finisher than Capella is, right, now, like you know, Capella is finishing, is kind of come and gone, and I think it mostly was there when James Harden was throwing him lobs in Houston. But but I think, you know, akong Wu has some good touch. He you know, gets off the floor quick. I think, you know, offensively, He's probably gonna be a role guy at least at first. I think. I agree, there's potential for more than that. But yeah, there's there's just a lot to like about him. Yeah, So actually just to put a button on the Hawks, Like I guess that was part of the reason I had been thinking John Collins was going to leave for a long time or that they wouldn't really spend much to resign him, was that maybe they thought of kong Wu was kind of like ready, or that Capella was going to be a trade piece. I think it's probably just the injuries that have prevented that as much as anything else. Yeah, And it's it's almost worked out in their favor because it seems like one of the three of them is always missing or dealing with something to where it hasn't been that much of a log jam. I am just interested to see how it plays out long term. After the Hawks, we have the Boston Celtics. How's that for knowing how to go in alphabetical order. You're welcome, everybody. I have Grant Williams here. He has had a quietly really good season and I don't know why, but doesn't it sort of feel like he's been around forever even though this is year three? Is it? Because we've seen like eighty different iterations of the Celtics since he's been in the league. It feels like both on and off the floor. But he's quietly shot the ball really well this season. He is, like, by percentages, just one of their best shooters from three. He's not taking you know, Jason Tatum off the dribble threes, but he's knocking down forty two point five percent of his triples on the year, which leads all rotation players unless you count Nick Stowskis. He have three appearances for a fewer than six minutes as a rotation player there. So that's just the biggest mark of anyone pest mark excuse me if anyone in their rotation. And I think, look, the ship has sailed on him being like one of the baby al Horfords. That seemed like they were scattered throughout the league at one point between him and Wendell Carter Jr. But if someone who can space the floor can do some stuff inside the arc, and then it's also just shown. I wouldn't call him dominant defensively, but there have just been plays when I've watched him where he's just all of a sudden on the perimeter guarding John Morant or breaking up plays from behind. I feel like he's just really good. And if you didn't have Robert Williams and Al Horford there, he would probably just get more shine in general, because I do think that his development it's sort of all of a sudden flown under the radar, and I think it's kind of coincided with I don't know if the mantra is still that Robert Williams the Third is underappreciated. I don't think he's overrated, but I feel like we've reached the point where to call Robert Williams the Third underrated is an overrated stance. He's just Galaxy brand the Robert Williams take. Williams would have been my pick two. A couple of things on him, fifty percent on corner threes, that's good. The other aspect, as you mentioned, is his defense. So Beeball Index does defensive versatility scores right, just to sort of measure statistically how many different positions of player guards like what percentage of the time. So there are three players in the league that have played as many minutes as Grant Williams to have higher defensive versatility scores, and it's Jimmy Butler, Aaron Gordon, Scotty Barnes. That's it. So, I mean, Williams is like a pure one through four defender and he can sort of because he's like he's a rock, can kind of hang in there against fives on the rare occasions anyone posts up anymore. So like as a role. It's interesting though that his on off is terrible, Like the Celtics are way better with him off the floor. I don't care, just because you know, he doesn't play with the starters as much. So he's awesome. He's a total right place, right time guy. I love those guys that just sort of know where to be in what to do. And some of the advanced metrics are very very kind to him. And I think if you watch, if you watch Boston play a little bit like against the Warriors the other night, for example, he definitely does justify I think some of the what the advanced metrics say for him. Boston's defense is out of control. Good as we're recording this, this is just what this team was at the start of the season, where I just assumed they were cooked and it was done now. I didn't think they need to break up John Brown and Jason Tatum. I just thought so many things needed to be fussed and fiddled with on the margins. And now they're in the top four of the East. And if you look at just like you would trust them, I think at this point way more to come out of the East than you would Chicago as an example. Oh, no doubt for me, I think. I mean you mentioned william Robert Williams this thing where he's just the free safety now and isn't involved in pick and roll coverage and just like swoops out of wherever to come. Weeks I block everything like that's that's a real weapon. And then every other position it's just like someone that's long and that can like deflect passes and just be in the way. So yeah, it's interesting that they've just sort of I don't know if if Robert if there's not like, I don't know what the fixes offensively, what you do against the Robert Williams free safety thing. Maybe it's just making sure he has to guard a really threatening shooter that he can't leave. But yeah, I don't know that the Celtics have really got it figured out right now. I would bring us to the Brooklyn Nets. Who are your team? Who would you pick for them? Well, they're not my team because I got the alphabet wrong, as we discussed earlier. So I'm gonna scramble. Let's see who do you have while I look? Wait, so you did? Oh wow, so we're just I did do Boston? Yeah, our alpha. See you said you were bad at the alphabet. I would counter with, I'm worse. Okay, So for Brooklyn, I think most people are my pick. He's just Nicholas Claxton. I don't even think he's properly rated within his own team, where you could probably look at some of these players and maybe they're not getting as much burn as you would expect, but their teams kind of know what they have in them. It doesn't feel like I know he's been injured. Bunch and he's been ill at times, it doesn't even feel like Brooklyn understands what it has in Nicholas Claxton, which is just like probably one of the three to five most switchable bigs in the league. And when I say switchable, I mean like, go out on the perimeter, just guard a primary ball handler who's six two. If it's like he can literally defend any position and he's not super strong, he could stand a sort of beef up his frame. And there is the element of we don't know what he is on offense just yet. Is he's tried to do more, not so much this season, but when you look back at last year two, he's tried to like sort of branch out at times where you see him put the ball on the floor, not attack from these face up spots, but where he's not just catching the ball and trying to finish. Maybe that is ultimately his role. But when you look at his defensive versatility and a big who can play the five, you can try and I guess play him at the four as well. Defensively, it should work depending on who your center is in those spots. And it's just so comfortable being yanked outside the paint his free agency to me is going to be fascinating. I don't think I wouldn't say he's a lot to leave Brooklyn, But I don't think they're going to be the team that prioritizes keeping him. And I'm not saying that that, but like they just seem higher on or feel like they have a bigger need for an Andre drum under la Marcus Aldridge at this point when I would counter with they don't that. Nicholas Claxton's a bigger difference maker if you can put together enough consistent runs with him. And again, part of it is on him himself. We're not hihimself but his body because he hasn't been able to stay healthy for these long stretches. But like he is someone that I would love to see just constantly get twenty five thirty minutes. Again, maybe he doesn't have the conditioning to do that, but I do feel like he is this higher end impact fig on defense where maybe no, he's not going to be the stingiest rim protector, but as someone who can just cover up for basically anything or even go up against Like, no, I don't want him ony honest, but he might be. Is it Bruce Brown or is it like, who's Brooklyn's best Giannis defender right now? Is it? Is it Bruce Brown? Oh? Ben Simmons? Wow, But Ben Simmons isn't playing. It's like Nicholas Claxton is like at least a body you could throw at those sorts of matchups. So there's so much you can do on the defensive end. And I just feel like the Nets, even when he's been available, haven't given him an adequate opportunity. No, And I think to your point that the Nets have been kind of bad at evaluating who should be playing center for them for a long time because they clearly didn't realize what Jared Allen was going to be. And so just so Claxton again just playing not nearly enough per thirty six. He's like fifteen ten and two and shoot sixty four percent from the field, And it's not someone you play off the floor because he can switch right. The other thing is her thirty six. He's fouling less than four times a game per thirty six, so it's not like he's another one of those centers that foul. It's like it's a it's not a Mitchell Robinson in years past situation where it's like, oh, well, we can't play him that much because the team's get and the bonus, and he's got four fouls, you know, in the second quarter. So there's like you almost have to look really hard for a reason why he's not playing more or why he's not clearly the starter, because because the things that you need a center to do on that team, he kind of can do them all. So so I'm with you. I have to throw Patty Mills in obligatory mention, just because I've always loved that guy and his on off splits are Every team he's ever been on is just always better lad with when he's on the floor, by like five, six, seven per hundred possessions. Some of that's because he plays backups, but if you do it that well for that long, I think there's there's definitely something something real there. So let's do this this way. What did you do the hornets or the hornets my team? I did do the hornets? Okay, as long as we alternate from here on, I'm good. Who do you have for Charlotte? They were for you, It was easy for you, they were they were really hard. I actually I had PJ. Washington at first, because I was going to try to make a case that just a sort of big guy that can stretch a little bit as value. But there just wasn't a lot of a lot of ammo for that when I look deeper at the profile, so it's Terry rose Year and the idea of him being underrated as I feel like, maybe I'm just telling on myself. I had this idea that he's kind of he's really a sixth man on a good team or a decent team, like that's kind of the role that he ought to be playing. But I think the more you think about it, look at like he was. He was a really key guy on the sort of a couple versions several versions ago of a Celtics team that made a deep playoff run. You know, he was kind of in charge of that deep I think it was a conference finals run. And so start there, and then you look at the statistical company he keeps right, So we're cherry picking, but that's how you do this. Eighteen points a game and thirty eight percent from three for three straight years. The other guys that have done that are Cat, Kyrie Irving and Zach Lavine. So you've got volume, You've got like pretty high volume stretch. He's a decent pick and roll ball handler that actually averages more points per possession on those than LaMelo does. So that's kind of compelling that he's more than just like you know, your chucker or your spot up guy. And he also has the highest average matchup difficulty on the Hornets, which, like eventually Lamello I think should be the guy that's handling the toughest opponent matchup, but right now it's Rosier. So in addition to like pretty legitimate, you know, offensive production company around the league, he's basically their most important backcourt defender two. So I think that takes him for me, like way beyond this guy is a spark plug six man Lou Williams, you know, several years ago type. I think I think Rosie's just actually like a quality to you know, well above average starter. And I don't know if most people think of him that way. The Hornets paid him like one, and I think that caught people off guard when he got that extension this best summer, but you pay for what has been, and especially you look at what he was able to do last year as incandescent. This year he started off a little slow, but just thirty seven point eight percent shooting on high volume from deep is really important. So I still think it should be PJ. Washington. By the way, I just feel like because Charlotte has put him in this just weird position where he's basically a center, but that's not what he should be playing. There's a lot of stuff like he's not spectacular on offense, but he's also kind of plug and play there and he's not going to be like an actual great defensive center. They're getting I wouldn't say slammed. They're like in the thirty fifth percent tile of defensive efficiency when he's at the five, and those lineups with him to me like, yes, they're not going to rebound really well. They seem like they fall a ton, but they just always tread water enough to where some of the matchups he goes up again some of what he's tasked with doing when he is the five, every when he just is playing with Bridges, him and Miles Bridges is the two headlining front court players. He picks up a lot more slacks than I think people believe there, or at least credit him with. So I still think it's him that being said, this team was super top and I think Rosier is like a totally finanswer as well. Yeah, actually, I mean Washington for sure. Like to your point, when he does play center, you give away like a little bit defensively, but not as much as as the narrative quote unquote would suggest. And the gains are super obvious, like when they spread the floor, like you said, the Hornets gets to a line way more often when Washington's at the five, because like you just have to have everybody out of the lane because he will shoot it and he's a threat to make it, and their offensive efficiency goes up by like five points and it's it's It's basically been that way for a couple of years now. So yeah, he's definitely a valuable guy. I have the bulls, Am I correct? Now? We're on. Yeah, we got it, we did it. We alphabetted, we alphabetted. I wanted to pick Iota Summo. I can't tell if me not picking him is like being too much of a basketball nerd and just assuming everyone knows how good he is, and I'll just say there's a and he should probably make first team, all like he'll have a case to make first team All Rookie and he should make one of the two All Rookie teams, which says a lot when you look at the breadth of his defensive assignments, and that is what he's given you as like a shooter, a ball handler, someone to excuse me to go after set defenses has been absolutely monstrous. But I also feel like he's been so essential to the Bulls that people understand how good he is. And so I'm just gonna say, Javonte green that dude scraps really hard defensively. And I know we've seen Chicago's defense sort of crater while they were missing Alex Caruso and Lonzo Ball. Caruso Is has since returned, but like Javonte green Is, I would say he is generously listed at six five, and he'll just body up against like power forwards, these power forwards or these really huge wings, and I respect that and like he'll lift to tell the tale and if you're gonna get you know, since the trade deadline, he's played over almost twenty six minutes per game, and he's shooting, Yes, his low volume of fifty five percent on threes on two point two attempts per game. You probably need him to be a little bit more of a high volume threat in general on offense, just so that defenses are going to respect him more. But he is just someone who grinds and works his butt off. I think you could probably go with Tosume Moo if you really wanted to. I would definitely not make him even al it was Caruso. I feel like there's the disease of forgetting before he got injured, Like this was someone who was at all defense lock and who people were wondering whether is he like one of those perimeter guys who can break this trend of all the big guys winning Defensive Player of the Year. I don't think he could have, but like he was instrumental in how the Bully he a Lonzo ball, like making the Bulls such an overachiever on defense. So I think there are a number of different places you could go with this again, to assume it was who I want to pick, I just feel like we've seen too much of him, or he has gotten a ton of recognition because he's been baptized by fire that I decided to stick with Javonte Green. Yeah, I wish I could do anything other than go with to some move but like just for all the reasons you said, just the difficulty of the position that he was put in, right like he if you know, just having to suddenly play major minutes as a second rounder is kind of nuts. And then he's also kind of to me, the perfect underrated guy because he's so low usage. It's almost impossible to be lower usage as a guard than he is. It's it's what am I'm looking at cleaning the glass right now. He has a fourteen point three percent usage rate that's in the eighth percentile for combo for combo guards, which I'm not I guess that's kind of technically what he is. But but he's super efficient and all he does is shoot at the room in threes. So it's like he just is is just the perfect guy to sort of not be noticed except for all the things he does defensively and all the energy and stuff. So I gotta I can't, I can't go anywhere else but him. I think he's just kind of been one of, to me, one of the most critical players, you know, thrown into this difficult position in the league. They're way worse off if they don't have him this season. Yeah, oh, yeah, well, because what do you do. They just didn't have any gardens forever. Most people didn't think they had defensive talent to begin with or are enough of it right, just I think they looked at Levigne de Rosen and Vouch and we're terrified. But then you that's compounded by the Patrick Williams injury, and then that is somehow compounded by injuries to both Caruso and Manzo Ball. So like, yeah, he's been mission critical would be the right way to put it, Like you did for sure. So I got the Calves now, and what else we have to do at the moment? This is what we're two in a row? Look out And this is really kind of an apology pick because I'm sure if I didn't say it here when in the off season during free agency last summer, I guess because again, what is time I thought I thought the Calves signing Jared Allen was like one of the worst signings of the of the off season. You and I skewered that con Yeah, in conjunction with the Evan mobilake pick ween just to do a giant a kulpa because oh, what are you going to give twenty million a year? To a non switch, non stretch. But it's just like all the you know, so totally wrong, totally wrong. Some of it has to do with Evan Mobile being such a unique prospect that can kind of work in tandem with another big guy, but most of it is just is Alan, like he Alan is an elite room protector by some measures, he's just the best in the league. Or you know, yes, he's hurt, but we're just going to talk about him in the present tense. He's he's not gonna have surgery on his fractured finger, which is such a boss movie. He's gonna come back and try to play sooner. Also love that he finishes everything. He never fouls. He's a really good rebounder. I think you could pick Mobile still just because I don't feel like unless you watch the calves, you have a real His numbers don't really just such a hack thing to say. But like the numbers don't totally show you want the way that he moves. He wants them more, Hi kerk No, Just the way he moves around the floor is usual if you watch it for like ten minutes. He doesn't move the same way guys that size move. He's just different. So that but even with all this, you know, Mobile is gonna win five defensive Player of the Years and this is Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett hybrid stuff. Alan is still the guy that has the higher matchup difficulty. So like, that's compelling to me. If you have this generational defender, even if he's a rookie, and you're still having Jared Allen gard technically by the numbers, the more threatening big guy, that's a big deal. He's the only higher volume rim defender that's holding guys under fifty percent inside six feet. So like, I don't know, also say I'm really sorry, is I guess what I have to say? Ultimately, maybe we'll delete that podcast and we'll just maintain that we always said he was a bargain, that one hundred million dollars was nothing for a player like Jared Allen. I'm sure I wrote that like twenty different times too. So there's the paper trail is long on that one. Do you think Kevin Love had a case for this one because he's been like quality this year? I do. I think there's I mean, you know, he's he's been, but the good job calves figuring out how to use like seven big guys because marketing has been better than I think most people expected. If you go back to the pod that we did on the Cavaliers, just absolutely over them. I said, I'm sorry. I make no apologies. It's our job to react and at least it's not like baseless reactions, even though YouTube comments might say otherwise. So but yeah, that was man. I missed out a lot this year, but I missed on the Calves pretty hard. I have the Pistons because we're excellent, and I think, by the way, I'm pretty sure Jared Allen would have been my pick. I'm I thought about Kevin Love. If you really wanted to be like hipster Twitter, you can maybe go with Dean Wade a little bit, but I don't. I don't know. If you look at I would have gone for Colin Sexton if he had another year like he did last season, didn't get injured, and Zach Glow said this, he might be the most disrespect did twenty four points per game score in NBA history. Just when you look at the Effisiens thing or whatever, I think Mobile is probably the right pick, or not Mobile Allen, And you could make the case remobili because I'm not trying. I think Scottie Barnes has a real argument for Rookie of the Year, and had Kade been healthy from the start of the season, he would too. I kind of just feel like we're forgetting how important Evan Mobley is the way that the Cavaliers function on defense. I know that you have Jared Allen as the like mobile is all over the place, like he's just teleporting all over the floor. But the Pistons, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to delay talk. I know the Pistons are your favorite team and talk about, so I think you could go with Marvin Bagley here. For people who haven't watched the Pistons since the trade deadline or at all, he's been like pretty good, more efficient and actual playing time. He's shown a lot when it comes to just his floor game, a little bit finishing around the hoop. He's been an interesting two man partner for Kay Cunningham, who just seems like he's gonna mesh with every single person in front of him. There's still tunnel vision. You need to become a better passer. If you pull him out in space on defense, he's going to get absolutely roasted. I think you can make a case for him because he was just considered this sunk cost in Sacramento, which he was, except he's been good in Detroit, So I have no qualms if you would pick him. I'm still rolling with Beef stew I understand we don't really know what Isaiah Stewart should be on offense. That whole like three point perimeter shooting experiment was incredibly short lived last season and it has not spiled over into this season, and he wasn't necessarily efficient enough to say, hey, we should we should keep going at this. So I get that, like you don't trust his shot selection when he's getting closer to the basket, or he might bail out before he gets to the rim. I understand all that. He's a real defensive difference maker when you just watch how teams are intimidated to get or maybe not the words not intimidated, but how less likely they are to get to the rim when he's on the floor, Like he's impacting decision making for players with the ball in their hands, not just at the rim, but like when they get into float. And if you look at the numbers, this is the second consecutive season where teams are shooting noticeably fewer attempts around the basket when he's on the court, and it's also the second consecutive season where they're shooting noticeably worse with him on the floor. And when you consider the context of the lineups that he plays in predominantly, that's actually a pretty big accomplishment because look at the team you're playing on, you are going up against a lot of other of the team other teams as best players. So I don't know if each stew will ever become like this offensive stud. And I do think it says a lot that the Pistons have been in the market for like a big man since even they had Isaiah Stewart last season, and he felt like this pleasant surprise. I still think he moves his feet a lot better on the defensive end than I ever thought. When you know, not before the draft, because you and I don't cover college basketball like after the draft you're drinking into these guys are right up before the draft, I just didn't think that he was going to have any sort of NBA level, not NBA level mobility. I just thought that he was going to get cooked more often on defense. And so he's been a real force there at times. And just because maybe he's not center of the future material, or you know, he is six nine, he might be six to eight for all you know, he's listened at six nine. No, just because he's not going to be necessarily the solution at center, or you have to pair him with another type of big or a certain kind of big. I don't think we should lose sight of how much of a of an impact that he can actually make when he is around the basket. Yeah, I think that's a good pick. The Pistons are a tough team. I've tempted to just pick Sadiq Bay because I thought he was having kind of a disappointing year, and he dropped fifty one points tonight. You see this, He at fifty one against Orlando, had thirty in the first half. I did think he's like the Jamal Crawford of Sadik Bays, but I don't know how to wrap my head. I like, he definitely has more ball skills than I ever anticipated from him, But then there are times when I wish that he didn't think that he had that many ball skills when you watch him, because he can be all over the place, but yeah, he could be. He could be a pick as well. For sure, I might have to pay him because I no matter how much your sort to write about Bagley being decent, I will well like it would be very easy for it would be difficult for me to underrate Bagley because I rate him so low and have rated him so low forever. So I don't know. I guess maybe I gotta just go with I gotta go with Bay, But yeah, I don't know. That leaves me just to make sure we get the alphabet right. Do I have the Indiana Pacers? This is gonna be a fun one. Did you actually do the Pacers? I did do the Pacers, And this was also kind of tricky, But I went with Jayalen Smith, and mainly that's because I was pretty sure he was going to be out of the league, and the Suns treated him as if they wanted him to be out of the league by not picking up his option, so start there. But he had I think the other night he had a fifteen fifteen game. He's basically averaging like thirteen and eight. These stats are a couple of games old. Probably by the time people are hearing this, thirteen and eight with the Pacers. He can shoot from three like he's kind of now what he looked like he might be on draft night, and like a you know, if he hit like his eightieth percentile projection, because he is providing stretch, he is finishing more than half his shots overall. He still has the seven two wingspan. He's kind of springy, and like if you watch some of the at the Pacers are playing just nothing but meaningless minutes right now, and that's easy. It's easy to use those to make a guy who maybe should be out of the league look like he belongs. But there are stretches where he kind of gets the ball and you know, he'll pump and go and then it's kind of Christian would Ish a little bit, you know, not that Christian Wood is any great, you know, comparison, but like I think Smith, I think most people would have thought that Smith just wasn't going to be a rotation guy based on how little he played for Phoenix and you know, just how sort of insubstantial his contributions were. But I think he might actually be a guy that's in a rotation with upside to do more than that, which is kind of what you hoped for when he was drafted where he was in the lottery, so it's a tiny sample, but that's a pretty good, pretty good way to make an underrated pick. And then if he ends up sucking later, you can say, well, but he was good for a while. So so that's kind of where I'm at on that one. He did have like that two or three game stretch of Phoenix this year where he just was putting up a ton of points as well. I've not seen enough of him with the Pacers. I've more focused on literally everybody else, including Tyrius Albert and Puddy held there to know like whether those numbers and what he's doing is actually meaningful. I am a little bit upset that you didn't pick O shaber Set, who is like one of those guys that makes you want to watch what happens away from the ball at both ends. And he's like basically position list. He could defend almost every position on the defensive end, he can give you some shooting in low volumes, he can give you some just like secondary ball handling. He'll come out of like nowhere to grab these offensive but he's just he's a freaking word alcoholic, and I love watching him and I'm gonna be forever mad that you didn't pick him. I just wanted to get that out of the way. I thought i'd let you have it. Sin. It's clearly like him so much. I have the heat, and I think the pick here for most is going to be Caleb Martin. And I do think it's important to sort of distinguish between like this guy's having a breakout season and showing stuff that he never did before. Then just assuming he's underrated and he is among the most well rounded players in the roster, so I'm not taking anything away from he's been really good. I think I'm gonna go with PJ. Tucker, which seems so bizarre to do when he is in his age eighty eight season, but it's actually aged three, and I know he hasn't been shooting as well from beyond the arc since the like for a minute, but he has been so good for them when you look at all he can still do on defense at his age. He has for the most part this season, where he couldn't hit a corner three for Milwaukee, he's been able to hit corner three. He's a very high clip again for the entire season in Miami and the other thing is like the heat of him making decisions with the ball in his hands for stretches, and a lot of that was born from they had these injuries, but like someone who would pass out of the post or just finding cutters and making these reads in transition, He's been a joy to watch with the heat, and I think it's I don't want to say this is the case of a thirty six year old player reinventing himself, but he was used in such a specific way for so long, in part because he was in Houston with James Harden and then Chris Paul, like during that era of basketball, to where they didn't want him to do anything else. And then you go to Milwaukee, where it's kind of the same deal. I think he was more valuable to their defense than anyone really understood. They focused on him missing shots, but like you come in mid season and they're not necessarily a team that's built for you to do more. And then you're in Miami, where I wouldn't call their offense egalitarian, but because of the stuff that Kyle Lowry would do away from the ball, Didal with bam Adebayo, and then also just the injuries you're seeing him do a little bit more and again he has taper off in recent weeks, but he has been so like I wouldn't think that PJ. Tucker would be like just super fun player to watch on offense of all things. And lower behold, whether you want to credit the heat Ers ballstrap PJ Tucker himself, is that Jimmy Butler work ethic hashtag heat culture that's just so contagious it rejuvenated PJ. Tucker there. I know some people are concerned about their half court offense looking at ahead of the postseason, but when you can defend like they Cannon, you have someone like PJ. Tucker who is basically positionless himself on defense, that's going to go a long way. And this is a real postseason championship caliber team needle nudger, which is not something that's common when you're talking about I don't want to use the word role player like as a criticism, but that's what he is. And just also the fact that he's averaging almost since the trade in line thirty minutes per game, still thirty six years old, just as a ton of miles on his body, especially when you look at the workload he shouldered defensively. All these years, I've just grown this new fondness and appreciation for PJ. Tucker. No, you hit it exactly because he his last couple teams, he was just put in a position where it was like, you're supposed to do two things and that's it. And then he ends up on a heat team where the way that they play is kind of everybody has to play basketball. It's not a specialist type of setup, you know. I mean, Bam out of bio brings the ball up as often as anybody. That's just like you're because he can, but they move the ball a ton, and everybody sort of has to do basketball stuff, which isn't just staying in the corner or uh, you know, stand in the other corner, which were the two things PJ. Tucker was asked to do basically the only other guys I'd mentioned, I think Tucker is the right pick. Both gave Vincent and Max Struce I think have been huge this year. I mean, Struce is a forty percent three point shooter that like gets him up at like basically Duncan Robin level du Duncan Robinson level frequency, which is difficult to do and Vincent just every time he's in the game and starts, you know, he's a capable out of nowhere ball handler, distributor decent shooter. Hard find those guys and the heat just always seemed to But but I think Tucker, Tucker is it. I would have the bucks. I'm with you on game Vincent. By the way he's been He's now an actual shooter, when that was so much of a theory for a while, and then he's been an actual and just like some of the lineups for he's been the day, the actual point guard. Not playing with Kyle Howard, you're Jimmy Butler. They've won those minutes like he's been big for them. Yeah, jumping to the Bucks. This is a really hard one because any time a team is just coming off a title and don't really change themselves, everybody sort of has a good feeling for who's good and who's not, who matters most. So this is probably the best player we're gonna have on this list. I'm looking back to make sure. Yeah, and for me it's true Holiday and I feel like that's also the hipster underrated pick, just because yeah, he's you know, regarded as one of the three best players on a title winner. But if you just kind of think about anytime you hear other NBA players say you know who I love, if the answers is always Drew Holiday, like Steph Curry has said, he guards him better than anybody. Like JJ Reddick on his podcast never stops talking about how great Drew Holiday is. So at some point when everyone that has reason to know and has played with and against the guy keeps saying that I don't know it has to count for something. It just and backing away from that just on what he does. You know, he's played playoff series guarding Kevin Durant and he's not a big guard, so he can do that. He face guarded Steph Curry the other night when the Bucks tried this weird like sort of a box in one thing. It didn't work, but the fact that Holiday is the guy that they task to do that and Curry had like eight points and got up seven shows like, yeah, you know that's envy, that's Steph's MVP case in a nutshell that you right, Drew that like Drew Holiday was on that assignment. But anyway, please carry on and that he's willing to do that because there's a lot of guys of Holidays caliber. I think that would be like get out of here, like can't we just can't we just play this guy straight up because I'm this good. But you know, sometimes you got a sacrifice that totally didn't work. But just over the last couple of years, he's a fifty forty guy, eighteen six and five ish like that's and you know, I guess most people would say that Middleton is clearly the number two player, but maybe it's not that clear on the Bucks Holiday rates better by EPM and by you know, some other advanced metrics. It's at least a question. He's made one All Star Game in his whole career, and so I think maybe that, just to close it, is the best case for him being underrated is that he should have been, if you know, if we're to believe all these other players that have said he's so great, if we are to believe our eyes and some of the numbers, like that's kind of nuts that he's made one All Star game. I have a Drew Holiday stat for you that I think is I feel like, will successfully blow your mind. Are you are you ready? I'm sitting down. He has taken one hundred step back jumpers this year exactly. His effective field goal percentage combined two point three point efficiency is seventy on those seventy dan is that is that good? That is good. That is incredibly high. He's shooting better than fifty percent on step back threes this year, which account for the vast not the vast, but they account for the majority of his step back jumpers. In general, he has been He probably should have been the second buck to make the deal. I love Chris Middleton. I would take a bullet for Chris Middleton, but he is and I think people talk about how they believe that Drew Holiday slipped on defense. I just feel like not having Brooke has not allowed Drew Holiday to be as risky or take as many chances on defense as he might normally. And maybe that's why they were more inclined against the Warriors. Gonna be like, well, you just take step Curry out of the game and we'll holpe that works, even though it didn't, so whatever you want to say about that. But you also let the factor in the two way workload that he carries because of the assignments he's aking. So what if let's let's call him the third option on the Bucks. You're the number three option on the Bucks. Who's just gonna chase around the number one, number two options on the other team for every single minute that you're on the court, And sometimes you're gonna defend not ones and twos, but three's in. Four's the the beating this guy's body must have taken over the past like seven years, just like ever since he rode in New Orleans. Essentially, I don't even know how he's still as good as he is. But I'm totally with you. I think this is the roster show shallow that you can't reasonably pick anybody else anyway. Maybe you want to make a case for Jordana. I wish I had Jordan Oara's confidence. That's aspirational, I'll say that. Yeah, But maybe brook Lope has by virtue of how much the defense has suffered in his absence until that he did recently return, So he's probably the right pick, even though he's higher profile. Yeah, you know what would happen if he tried to take a bullet for Chris Middleton, He'd stop it. Drew Holiday would jump in front of it, because he's that kind of guy Love Drew Holiday so good. I have the Knicks, which you know. This was tough because I think you could go with If people still think that RJ. Barrett's not a legit cornerstone prospect, then yes it's him. I know his efficiencies all over the place, but we've seen him like take control of games as he's been given the ball more, and I think there's another level as a facilitator. We've seen his spot up, his set, three point shooting improve as the season has gone on. After that cold start, his volume with the rim ever since. I think Fred Katz of The Athletic wrote about this New Year's Eve has been among the highest in the league. There's a really good NBA player there, and I think it's clear that he's a really good going to be a really good NBA player. So I did not pick him, even though I think some Knicks fans will make a case. I didn't pick Julius Randall even though he's played better in recent weeks. I just need to I need fewer self created Julius Randall everything. Let's get this man uses like a roller. I kind thought about going with Norlan's Noel because he was so good last year and hasn't really played this year, and people are now wanting to talk about him as this contract albatross. I don't actually know if it's any of the kids. They might be underrated in the sense that they're not old enough for Tom Thibeau to love them the way that he would some other players. And I don't know if you saw this quote the other day from Tips where he said we're playing young guys more than anyone else in the league. Did you see that. That was a real thing that he said, which is just laughable, even if they have gone the developmental route more recently. And I just don't think that we've seen enough from a McBride or Grimes to say it's them. We haven't even seen Olbie. Toppin's probably underrated in the building. Tims should be playing him more. I also wanted to kind of pick the idea of Julius Randall Obie Toppin playing together as my underrated pick for the Knicks, because Tims won't do that. I'm actually going to pick Alec Burks because once he was forced Let's make that clear. This is not him begging to be the point guard, but once the Knicks decided that he was going to play more point guard or in these lineups that demanded he operate as a pseudo point guard. Things got bad, and I know that he can't finish like a layout to save his life right now. But this was someone who last year, for parts of this season was let's go to the phrase mission critical again to New York's outside shot making, to what they would do in the fourth quarter and crunch time. He no longer is that, I feel like, because he's miscast and this team also kind of sucks, so there's still a really good NBA player in there. And I don't think you look at him being on the books for slightly more than mid level of money. That's not something that's a I don't want to say some cost. That's not an overpay to me. He is someone who helps a team that doesn't suck, and there's a difference between being able to make a team that sucks good and just amplifying a team that doesn't suck. He can do the ladder where yeah, there is some like secondary shot creation there, but he also fits into a larger ecosystem as an outside shot maker as well. But also again, he can do some secondary stuff on the ball, and I sort of feel like because the Knick season has gone off the rails and we've seen him suffer as a result, and I wouldn't put it I wouldn't put it all on him. I feel like we've just kind of forgotten, like this guy is a really helpful NBA player. The Knicks are just you know, the obstacle this season was they couldn't get out of their own way and they were just never able to. And they're doing the right thing now by playing more of the youngsters, and we'll see what they do over the offseason. But I think that Alec Burks is still someone who is good and can help teams that already have an identity and an identity that is sufficient where it's not let's just rely on Julius Randy too much. That's a little lot more well thought out than I could have mustered for the Knicks. I probably would have said, Barrett, just for the reason you said, which is that you if you do catch him, you know, he's still so young, but if you catch him on certain nights, it is very clear that like he's someone you can give the ball and say, we need to try to win this game and he kind of can do it, you know, not assistently, but that'd be a big ask for someone that's still this inexperience quick tangent quick aside, because I know you follow the knicks more than I do. What's up with Emmanuel Quickly? Is he a rotation player on a good team? Like eventually you think you think you're shit, you'd You're nodding very convincingly when you look at the aesthetics of his game, and I don't want to be this, don't look at the numbers, but it's the second season of his career, and I'm more inclined to take that route to the first two seasons of a player's career when you look at the aesthetics of his game, from how comfortable he is pulling up off the bounce, how long his threes are from deep that floater he can take on a dime, and some of the passes that he's made, or at least the havoc he creates when he's going downhill, which will open up passes into the future. I know there. I think there's even been studies done, but I know there are a lot of smart people who are of the mind that playing time in games does not equate to actual development. I think this is a classic case. If he had more agency for the entire season, we would be seeing a much better version of Emmanuel quickly than we do now. There might still be some of those wild, turbulent peaks and valleys, but he has been on these until recently, these weirdo inexplicably quick hooks for TIBs. And when you look at the aesthetic aesthetics of his game, just what are you gonna do on offense? That is someone who can inflict hell upon set defenses. And I don't know how good he's going to be. What I say he's a starter in this league, I don't know. But like, if you're asking me, is he gonna be better than Jordan Clarkson, have a better career ARC than Jordan Clarkson, I'm gonna say yes, yeah. I think one thing with him, the depth of the threes is huge, And you pair that with he makes ninety percent of his free throws, so you know he's not shooting great from deep thirty four percent I think so far. But his willingness to shoot the deep ones and his free throw stroke I think suggests that at some point he's going to be a guy that well, whatever his minutes are, he's gonna be able to get up a lot of reason and make a lot of threes and whatever else happens. I think. I think that's that's in the cards for him. I have the magic. I got another. This is another tough one, is it, Jonathan Isaacs? Because you haven't seen him play, Yeah, what you don't know? Yeah, we assume he's got even better. But there's no seven. He's just gonna miss two plush years from an ac el andrein. There's been no set back. That doesn't make any sense. That's that's ah, that's questionable. Yeah, I think, man, I guess if i'd if he played at all, he might have been in the running for this because I do think the ceiling for him is so intriguing. But at this point, with the inter what is he on offense? A fifth option? I don't know. Yeah, A lot depends on that weird looking shot eventually going in more and I don't know, maybe he becomes a better dive man, but on this team, so getting to this, uh, there's not a lot of room for him to play center, I don't think. So that's that's gonna be an issue. Well, yes, Rollo and Bomba are technically expiring, so maybe, but yeah, right, But the guy i'm picking, which is when Bill Carter Jr. Which is another very good player that probably well, you know what though he plays in Who's watching Orlando? Who knows how good car how nobody knows how good this guy is. So the counts is underrated. Yeah, very perfect. So here's a couple of things. Quietly, a really good rim protector. He's better than Mo Bamba, who in theory that's like one of the two main things Bomba is supposed to be good at. He's top five ish if you sort of account for volume, holds guys to about fifty two percent inside six feet. I think so defensively, I think you've got something there. Offensively, the range, his shooting range is not there yet, but he's gotten up a couple more threes per game them before, and he's making long mid rangers like a lot. So it's it's progressing out there slowly. And I think you could sort of extrapolate that to maybe it's not next year, but maybe he's gonna keep making these little steps. He's at thirty three percent on decent volume from deep and again it's it's that as a center, like, well, you got something to work with there. He's very high usage for a big, and he's not just scoring, he's a he's actually a good pastor. He's an eightieth percentile and assist assist rate for his position, So that's also something. I guess. It's hard to sort of make much meaning out of this because the Magic are terrible and most of the backups are not good, but the best net rating on off swing on the team, and put all that together, they're better with him on the floor. There's a real sort of case you can visualize for him being a high end interior defender and a stretch big who can pass a little bit and who can finish inside. So to me, that kind of makes him profile as a guy that's going to make some All Star Games. Multiple things kind of continue on this track. Even if nobody's gonna see it, it's gonna be, you know, difficult for him to get noticed because I think the Magic will be bad for at least another year, maybe two. But he's on kind of the shorter list of if I were putting together you know who's gonna make who might be primed for a leap in twenty two twenty three. I think based on the step forward he's taken this year and just sort of how it looks trajectory wise, I think Carter would be on that list for me. So I think most people acknowledge he's you know, he's got the fantasy numbers, I guess, you know, which makes up a large percentage of how people perceive basketball player quality. But I think I don't think he's appreciated for like what he's doing right now in obscurity and what he I think projects to be able to do. I think that would be my pick as well. I thought about jail and Suggs, just because so many people seem down on him since his rookie year has been all over the place and it's been marred by injury a little bit. I still maintain when I watch him going downhill and some of the decisions he makes, even when it doesn't include necessarily finishing his own plays, he's I still think he's going to be real good. You can also make a case for Franz Wagner, where I think he'd be third on my rookie ladder. I don't know how I'm gonna wait like playing time this year between him and K and I haven't even looked at the gap at this point, but he is probably gonna be no lower than fourth on that and I'm not sure if he's receiving enough credit there. And I also think people sort of view him as a specialist on offense still for some reason where and I've said this on the podcast before, Like he can put the ball on the floor, he can put his head down, people have bounced off him on his drives, but he's also has some nice like finesse and like just to see that level of force and finesse mixed together on the move is impressive. I think it's Wondel Carter Jr. He's And not even know if you mentioned this, Like yeah, the three point shooting on his volume at thirty three percent, so I shooting forty nine plus percent from mid range. He's hit like forty five percent of his turnaround jumpers this year. I think he's the pick. And there are probably other like names that you could list up, Like some people might think it's Cole Anthony this season. I would go the other way on col Anthony. I think he's a little over it. The other guy. I think a lot of people assume Mary Harris is totally washed, and that's not thirty nine percent from threes is still a good Defender's this year, he's gonna get the mid level right, like someone someone's gonna see him and say, like, this is our we got a seventh guy who can play three three in d like he's he's not you know, he's not great. He's not what he was when he signed that big deal in Denver before he got hurt. But he's another consideration I had before I went with A Carter. Ultimately, I think I feel like he's probably just gonna end up back in Denver. Maybe it's on the mini eml E and there's a team that's w I was thinking he was going to get bought out and end up in uh oh my god, end up back in Denver. But he didn't, so which is interesting that he didn't. Maybe he didn't want to give money back. It's interesting that he stayed in or like is there something to Maybe they want his bird rights and they want to give him like this fatass one year deal. I mean, if you're a I mean, he's what he signed for, like eighty million twenty seventeen. So he's doing okay, but I don't know. Yeah, yeah, maybe that's it. I really hope. I hope he's back on a good team. He's one of He's another one of those guys that, like, you know, certain guys are just worth more on a good team, and and he's he's good enough to be a seventh guy or sixth guy or a spot starter on whatever. You know. Take Denver when that when Denver's healthy next year and they're a contender. So I'm into that. So I have the sixers, and I'm still scrambling to figure out, like who I need to pick for the sixers. I'm going to go. No one's gonna like this, but I'm going to go with Danny Green. It's him or George and Yang, just because George Yang is gonna sling it when he's on the court, and there's just a ton of value in his doing that, specifically before James Harden came along. It's not Tyres Maxie anymore. By the way. I just I hope that that's a lack of options here, and I know we I had this discussion with some of our Discord members where Danny Green has looked washed on defense a lot this year. His three point shooting has been all over the place. He is shooting thirty seven plus percent since the trade deadline, So there's that. His matchup difficulty on defense is still absolutely absurd. It is ninety two point two. He is spending nearly a quarter of his possessions guarding the other team's number one option. Still, that is a monstrous workload for someone who is not in his prime anymore. He's in he's age thirty four and he's gonna turn thirty five in June. And if you have someone look, look, the gauge cannot be he didn't stop Trey Young in last year's playoffs. That's not sufficient enough to me. And I do think he's taken a step back. We've seen it in the way that Doc Rivers has handled his playing time. But if you're just gonna have someone who's shooting thirty seven point three percent from three for the year, yeah, there's going to be some bad misses, but he's getting those up at seven point two attempts per thirty six minutes. And just another wing type body on a team that doesn't really have many of them, particularly ones who you can trust even a little bit from three point range. The idea that he can still come in and if you're the other team's best player is a guard, or let's say, highest volume player is a guard, that you can still have him chase around those players. There's value in that. And I also want to say it's not you know, I would never use this as like an MVP argument where it's well, it's Devin Booker or Chris Paul because the Suns have the most wins. There's a reason though, that Danny Green is just always on these really good teams. The Sixers are better statistically at both ends this season when he's on the floor, and I do think a lot of that has to do with the quality of opponents he's facing. They're still one of the four best teams in the Eastern Conference. This pre dates James Harden's arrival. I know he's not playing as big of a role. He definitely looks slower on the defensive end. I actually feel like every time I watched him, I had a triple check his three point percentage on the year, and I was also breaking it up by months because I feel like whenever I watched the Sixers, I never see him hit a three that they always miss, So I get there's like this level of volatility to him, like even if you watch him in transition defensively, like he still tries to get after it there. So I'm going with Danny Green. The caveat here is I don't know that the Sixers really have like a great, a great number of good options here for this exercise. No, I think. I think going with someone like Danny Green to the And I agree because you can't make the case for Niang in the same way you can for Green, because the numbers just don't support it. But if you're looking for someone that's underrated, just pick the guy that's gotten maximum portability, the guy that fits on any team anywhere because he can still he can you know, to sure, not the defender he was on like the fourteen fifteen Spurs or you know, twelve thirteen or whatever, but like he just fits anywhere that that's always super valuable. You don't have to change anything when Danny Green's on your team because he's just going to do all the stuff that nobody else wants to do, and he'll be in the right places and make shots. And not only is he always on really good teams, said, really good teams are always better when he is playing. Is if you look back at every single year since eleven twelve, he's got a positive on off differential, and some of them are enormous. So its like again, just like you know DeMar Duros and always having negative ones didn't mean he was terrible. Necessarily, it meant something until the last year or two. Danny Green when he is on the floor for a good team, so the bar is already high because in theory their backups are very good too. He makes them significantly better. So and you would never think of him as this integral piece to winning, certainly not anymore. But I agree with you completely. I think Danny Green is like the only realistic choice on a good six ers team, and I kind of feel like I've just been there like forever, and like maybe the difference is I think the best way I could frame his defense is like you're probably less you want to put him if it's there's like a bigger three who's just slower versus a point guard, You're gonna want to put him on the bigger three now, where I feel like in years past you would have wanted it to have been the point guard, and I don't look if you look it up, I think this is on record. Yes, he has spent This has to do a little bit with the six Ers personnel. Obviously he's guarding point guards fifteen point six percent of the time. That's his lowis mark since twenty thirteen fourteen. So here he's thirty four. So yeah, what do you want people? Yeah, so I'm not I won't. I feel like I had to be more impassionate about this election because I was waffling right up until I made it. But nonetheless, I'm still put Danny Green. I'm like the Knicks consigned Danny Green this offseason. That's all I'm saying there, That's all you're saying. Nothing wrong with that. So I have the Toronto Raptors and again have a really difficult team because Toronto is sort of defined by the fact that it has like five very good players and they're all kind of similar to me. In years past, I always would have picked Ogianna and Obi, but I think too many times now he's been tabbed as like this guy is ready to pop and just watch out. He's gonna be like the Wendell Carter breakout thing for next year. I'm sure I've picked annan Obie least each of the last two off seasons. As you know, the guy that's gonna make the leap still might do it, still might do it again, but I can't pick him. Uh. Scotty Barnes, I think is properly rated as one of the three best rookies, maybe the two best rookies, super valuable. I think everyone is not as good as not as high a seiling as Jonathan Comingga put put that in ink. I'll live, I'll die on that hill. Pascal Siakam is, I think correctly now regarded as an All Star and fringe All NBA guy. He sort of got it back. So I had to go with Fred van Vleet, which is just makes me feel stupid because he's an All Star and I think everybody agrees he's good. I guess the case that I'm making is that I think Van Vleet is Toronto's best player. I think a lot of the you know, the the alphabet soup advanced metrics say that, but I won't go through all the EPM and estimated wins at it and all that stuff, which kind of suggests he's an All NBA level guy, like fairly clearly this year. To me, there's a couple of things that that kind of do it, And one is just the sheer number of minutes that he plays, And there's immense value, especially now when nobody plays, you know, giant chunks of minutes. You know, nobody touches forty anymore. But he's up there in the thirty eight, thirty six, thirty seven range. You know, consistently he shoots tons of threes, which I think is just critical to the way Toronto plays on offense to have someone that creates the space, so you have all these range e like six seven guys that can kind of get in the lane and do stuff. He has the highest matchup difficulty on the team. And this is a team with a ton of really good defensive players that are very versatile, but it's still him that takes just by percentage, the most difficult matchup on the other team. And just going back, like I think he was viewed as kind of a secondary guy on the title run team and Lowry and Kawhi and you know, Siakam, but I think just now it's clear that like he was just as big a piece on those teams as almost anybody besides Kauhi. So I don't know. I guess I just want to give him as flowers now, while admitting you could go like fifteen different ways on or maybe more like six different ways on this team, I just want I want Van Vleet to be regarded as an all NBA type guy, and I'm not sure he's viewed that way. You're right, you probably could go a bunch of boys. If we were gonna go with one of the bigger name players for the Raptors, like let's say, of their top six guys or whatever, I probably would have went with Siakam because there still feels like there's the disconnect where people there was a rush to coordinate. When I had a'm on don on Ann from the addition Donna's podcast Few Usgo, we talked about how everyone just assumed after Kawhi left and his performance or that he had to be the number one option on championship team. There's like real value in being able to be the number two of the number three on what would be a great title contender. And I think Pascal Siakam has had an all A caliber season this year. There were people that got my had I had my MVP ladder the other day and I did not have him in my top ten. If you wanted to put him at once you get past like there are a lot of candidates this year, but like there's like seven of them that need to be in there at this point, I think, and he's not one of the seven for me. If you want to futs and fiddle with the other three in the top ten, that's that's fine, So I probably would have went with him. Chris Bruche remains underrated as well, for someone who has not shot the three balls well this year. He did hit an escape dribble three the other night, though that's Chris Bouchet off the ribble three point shooter. He just brings a ton of defensive energy and I still like the way he moves without the ball when he's tasked with doing it. And I also think when I did my redraft from his draft, I did not. I barely still had him going in the first round. But Precious Sichua is starting to come on for the Raptors as well, But that might be more of a case of I'm not saying like a Caleb Martin type thing. Where it's this guy hadn't shown a ton and Caleb Martin I think was clearly hackful at points in Charlotte, so it's not as out of left field. But this would be like the equivalent of Kasiak Paula had that he kept him and he all of a sudden inside it like was actually good. So you probably made I would have went with Buche, but you're right that I do feel like there's eighty different directions that you could take this team. Yeah, I knew you'd say Bouche, so I didn't. I didn't even want to bring him up. I know he's he's your guy. Yeah, Chris Bouchet, come on hard with knocks already we've been waiting here. And Frank Lakina the dream guess the final team is the Wizards. I'm wondering if you can guess who I picked? Who would you what? Let me get in the mind of Dan for a second here. Oh that's a little scary. But just like Chris Bouche, I'm gonna guess you picked Caseyp No, he was and I think he I think there are only two right answers here. Because Kyle Kuzma feels like he's finally properly rated, just as someone who that's what i'd say, Casey ps, just like, oh, we need this guy who's gonna hit threes. Sometimes he'll do too much off the dribble and it'll make us queazy, but he's just gonna go out and defend every other team's best perimeter defender, perimeter player essentially, especially if they're in the back court. There's just an the fact that I that Russell Westbrook t Crede is just an abomination, just like the original Russell Westbrook Trede to Houston was an abomination. But giving up like two wings wings plus your first round pick in Mantres Harold like, oh we get enough has been said about that. I went with Denny Ava. He's he's really good and I would love to see I feel like, even since Bell got injured, even since they trained Dinwoody, I want to see more of Danny Avvia on the ball. Not because I expect him to like hit these incredible step backs, but this is just a guy who, even in his supplementary role, he will keep the ball moving. And there's also just like a a speedy girth to him, if that makes any sense. Where it's like he'd love it's like he's quick, but like you, it's not. He's quick, but he's also really I don't even want to say he's strong so much as he's he's solid. So he's quick and solid, which you just don't see a lot, and he's probably quicker than you would think looking at him. And that translates to the defensive him by the way, where he's defended up and down the gamut one through four. And I have I bet you weren't expecting this. I have an incredible in astounding getting afvia defensive stat Are you ready, I'm so ready. So this season, when you look at how his defensive matchups have been broken up eighteen point three percent of the time against point guards, twenty five point four percent of the time against shooting guards, twenty three point three percent of the time against small forwards, and twenty four percent of the time against power forwards, nine percent against centers. So that's good enough for it's a matchup position and estimate of about a three, it's a two point eight, but he gets a positional versatility score reball index of eighty four point seven. Now, when you're looking at the context of the rest of the league. That's not a super high mark. But what I don't think we're talking about is he is six nine. You don't necessarily see these dudes who are six nine guarding ones and twos this frequently. So I looked it up in b Ball Index's index. Go figure there among anyone who is six nine and has played at least fifteen hundred minutes over the course of an entire season since two thirteen, which is basically a decade. That's how farther data is. Going back now, there have been only three players with a higher positional versatility score than afia. You have Ben Simmons, and he did it three times because he's fucking Ben Zimmons. This season's Jaden McDaniels and two seventeen, two eighteen Jeff Green. That is it. And I'm not saying that versatility equates to effectiveness, but there is value. When you're just looking at the names up and down this list, they're only like if you even look at players his eyes who've crossed eighty Kevin Durant, Franz Wagner this season, Kyle Kuzma, Jaden McDaniels again, Lebron Pascal Siakam, Jeff Green, that's it. Those are the names since thirteen, there's a mixed bag. They're like, I don't think Franz Wagner. He's been better on defense than I expected. He's not, you know, going to be my touchstone touchstone comparison. Excuse me as I trip over my verbiage. There he Denny Obvia. I feel like the word to describe his game would just be optionality. And I also might even use the word unknown a little bit still, because I think there's more in his offense to plumb needs to be a better shooter overall, but I would like to see the ball in his hands a little bit more. And I think that this is someone, No, not a cornerstone prospect in the sense that you think he's he going to be the player around which you build everything. No, but he can fit and impact really a fit on an impact really really good teams. And I'm hoping that that continues because he's been a joy to watch. But it's him or KCP are the answers here. I'm glad. I'm glad you did pick Abdia though, because I think the ball's gotta go in more. That's just you know that's that's obvious from two and from from three three, I guess, especially if you really wanted him to be something. But no, I think it is hard to describe that there is something about him. It feels he feels like just comfortable, which is just you know, moving around, whether he has the ball on, you know, off it or on it, he seems like he I don't know, it's it's an indefinable quality. It just seems like he sort of knows what to do. And you know, the numbers aren't great, but he's a really good rebounder, really good defender. He's sneak, sneaky size, Like you mentioned, I could see if the ball starts to go in a little bit, mainly because of the defense. On the versatility, there's like some Nick Batoum kind of you know, younger Nick Batoum's there where he's longer than you think he's. He's he's you know, can play he can play four right now. Obviously Batum kind of came to that later, but I agree. I think he he's grown as a pastor this year as his role has kind of he's had to do a little bit of different stuff. Now that you know Washington is really a very different team in terms of the way it operates offensively. It's not so heliocentric anymore. But but no, I think too, the defensive versatility is huge. It just because like Caseyp is a good defender, Kyle Kuzma is a good defender, and yet obvious still is a guy that they are willing to move around, and like, yeah, that's a big deal, right that is for a young guy too, that it's you know, he doesn't he doesn't. He's not as familiar with guys around the league as some of the older players are, and he still holds up so well defensively even if the shot doesn't go in. If even if he doesn't become even a league average shooter, I think he still has real value because he knows what to do, he has good feel, he can pass the ball, and he's gonna defend. So so I think I think maybe that's maybe you want more than that from from a number nine pick, but but who's just you know, they could still get more. But I think if you don't get it, I think he's still really good. And look, I'll take sixty two to sixty five percent shooting at the rim when you look at the quality of looks he's taking, which I feel a lot of the time self inflicted. I will say that, well, and there are people have watched the Wizards way more than I have, I'm sure, And there's been some promise to his mid range game, like he's at forty three percent for his career. I don't know that. I like that over a quarter of his attempts for his career are coming from mid range. But does that give you hope for his three pointer? I honestly don't know. I think the three pointers probably the swing skill for him, because I think there's a better finisher in there somewhere, and it might look, especially this season, it might have been some of the finishing stuff is definitely a symptom of what they're spacing has looked like at times. I think that hurt Spencer Dinwoodie a lot at points two while he was there, aside from him being miscast off the ball when he was playing alongside Bill for a certain stretches. But yeah, I'm he's just he's another one of those youngsters because he's twenty one. He just turned twenty one recently. I think, well, I'm just very intrigued by his career. Arc I wouldn't call him a star, but like it just feels like there's a very high end outcome or there's a there's a variety of outcomes for him, and the peak is higher than I think a lot of people expect. But I'm not ready. I can't even remember who you use this form man that I forgot. You call them a potential All Star, and it caught me off guard on this podcast. I'm not going to go that far with him, but I can't remember which team it was for now, and I'm angry at myself. I don't know. It could have been Wendell Carter. Yeah, yeah, you Cadel Carter, Junior future All Star. Yeah, mark it down, Resident Magic Watcher Grant. This was great and for us not all that long, believe it or not. Can you tell our listeners where they can find you on social media if you care and all the great works that you do. I really don't, but you can. They can find me a GT Underscore Hughes and you can read what I write a Bleacher Report and you can listen to me here like fifteen plus times if you want to go back through the archives and just don't listen to the free agency pod we did about Jared Allen. Not the best sales pitch for invariably when I ask me about the twenty and twenty two d podcast boys, thank you to have it all figured out by man, Thank you so much. As usual, Grant and I don't we'd been lapping about the Western Conference with you soon