Good morning, Jennifer. How are you doing. I'm well, thank you,
Ero, how are you? Absolutely fantastic, very excited to share a
conversation with you because this book is so valuable and very important right now because
as much as the older generation is looking to even the current generations below us,
we're not seeing the hard work, dedication, loyalty and determination. And
a book like this I hope inspires people to realize, put some elbow grease
in it and make a difference. Well Er, I can't agree with you
more to do this book. I mean, you shock me in this book
because there's so many things that we've just walked right by and didn't realize that
there's a story that goes along with it. Well, writing it was,
you know, a fantastic experience, and you know, the working class,
the story of working class people is an amazing story. They are the people
who invented public education, of the public. Public libraries were for you know,
sought up by unions. They've given us so much, you know,
besides of course the weekend and minimum wages and working hours and you know,
safety on the job. You know the importance of those in the unions as
well as the everyday employee. The importance is is that we just go,
h I gotta go to work. I gotta go to a job. But
people don't understand there is an important position that you're playing here. Absolutely,
and it's such a huge part of our lives as you know, with what
you do. You know, we go every day and we spend just an
amazing amount of time at our workplaces, and you know, it's a huge
part of our lives. I they're my family, and that's exactly how I
treat them. I sit down and listen to them. We work together as
a family, and you know, it's like it's so important that you have
a relationship with them in the way of being together. Yes, I mean,
that's what I mean. That's really what unions are. It's just solidarity
with the with the folks that we work with every single day. And and
it's also very democratic. We live in a democratic country. We're very proud
of that, as we should be. And you know, we all have
a say, like we'll all have a say and what happens is coming November,
and you know we all want that same say on our jobs. And
that's what unions are. It's a you know, it's a democratic it's very
democratic to have that say on your job. Yeah. Coming from Montana,
my father was part of a union, and I grew up hating the union
because it was like my father was always on strike and it affected our family
life. And as I grew into adult shoes, I had to learn to
understand the unity of a union. Yes, I mean, I mean that's
there, it is right in the word and you know, and always being
on strike, it's it's it's so hard because so often unions get blamed for
so many things that aren't really they're doing. So why are they on strike?
Maybe it was that business or corporation who refused to give them a wage
increase or to make their jobs safer. So the battle and striking is one
of the single weapons that the working class have and so they must use it.
Yeah. It was such a shock when I moved down here to the
Carolinas and they don't believe in unions down here. I mean that really was
probably the biggest culture shock I went through. And I think believing in unions
is you know, there's a lot of there's just a lot of you know,
I would say bad news about unions that's put out there, you know,
just bad press, bad propaganda against unions that you know, I really
hope Shift Happens changes because what unions have done and the stories, and it's
really Shift Happens isn't just the story of unions or the labor movement. It's
really it's really the story of the United States, the birth of the United
States, and the working class view of what that looked like, what that
looked like to go through you know, colonization, to go through the Industrial
Revolution, to go through you know, World War One or World War Two
as a working class person. So it's more than just you know, the
formation of unions. But of course unions are the beating hearts of labor and
so they're hugely important. But yeah, I mean, I just think that
it's such an important topic for everybody, but also for young people. You're
probably I think I'm a big jerk here, but if I were a school
teacher, a history teacher, it would be required reading this book because you
cannot understand the foundation of this nation without understanding the people who help bring it
together. Absolutely, I mean, yeah, it's absolutely true. And I
hope that I hope that I hope that teachers will use it. I have,
you know, on my website. I've worked really hard to create different
tools for teachers to be able to use the book really easily. And I
also when I wrote the book, I really tried to contextualize the labor movement
within history, and so you aren't just reading about you know, the Triangle
shirtwaist factory fire, or the hay market or the pullman strike. You're not
just reading about that. You're reading about, you know, what is happening
in the working class in our jobs that is affecting those things. And one
of the most I feel like one of the most interesting stories is how the
Civil War happened. And you know, you're like, okay, well why
did the Civil War happen? And one of the reasons why is because in
nineteen eighteen forty eight over in Europe they had the springtime of people and that
they were really after democracy and to kind of oust the monarchies, and they
lost, and so all these people that were like, hey, you know,
a huge swath of the working class over there were very demoralized and we're
looking for democracy, and they came here. So they came here in the
eighteen fifties in a huge way and when of God, here they were like,
oh my gosh, like they took a look at slavery, and they
boosted the need for the Civil War. And so if eighteen forty eight hadn't
happened and that working class hadn't come over, the Civil War might not have
happened for you know, another ten years, fifteen years, who knows.
But it's that kind of contextualization and that part of the story of being working
class that I really want teens and anybody who's working class to know that history.
So we spend so much time talking about the past inside shift happens.
But at the same time, my heart is wide open and also fearful of
this AI revolution, because I mean, if the computer is going to be
trained to do human work, what happens to those that are growing? Yeah,
I know Erro and I think a lot of people we hear a lot
about AI. But I will say this, and I don't know if this
will alleviate THO fear. I'm not sure. But you know, this story
of labor is really the story of skilled unskilled, because that's what capitalism,
our economic system does. It takes skilled workers and on de skills them.
And I will say unskilled work are unskilled is a historical term, and I
only use it in that context because I believe it takes skill to do every
single job. But like so AI is our newest thing. But there's been
so many things in the past. And one of the most interesting ones that
I that it's in the book and I love it. It's the story of
glass blowers. And glass blowers were these these workers with years worth of skill,
like to be a glass flow to work with glass, you needed to
be a chemist, you know, you needed years of training and knowledge to
work with glass. And then in nineteen oh two along comes the cylinder blowing
machine and that's all over. Glass blowing is no longer a skilled job.
All those glass blowers have been unskilled. And so I really do think that
this AI is the newest cylinder blowing machine. And you know, and I'm
not saying it's not going to destabilize workers, like every time we go from
skilled to unskilled, it destabilizes us. And I wish that, I wish,
really wish that wouldn't happen. And the way to have that not happen
is to organize and you know, come together in unions and then force laws
that help us with these transitions, because a I won't be the last technological
advancement that comes our way, it's just the newest one. Wow, I'll
tell you what. In listening to that answer right there, the one thing
that reminded me so much of is that forty years of radio. But I
really didn't know who my listener was. So I took up a job at
a grocery store to be with real people. That's what I think everybody should
do. Go get a retail job and know why your other jobs are so
important, because people are very real and they're always needing something. Yes,
yes, and our jobs. We get so much to our jobs as workers,
and those jobs should be giving back. It should be a partnership.
And of course that's what unions are. And before when we talked about that
propaganda, you know against unions, they're greedy, they're this like when I
go into schools, I really talk to kids about Hey, like, let's
critically examine the power structure. Like let's take a look at this article and
look how they call the CEO the CEO or the president of this corporation.
But then when we talk about the union, we call the president of the
union, the boss, Like we use this vocabulary, so it's almost like,
you know, because boss is almost like a mob term, and so
we go ahead and we we just position unions in that way when really what
they are is they are part of the democratic system. They're just the bottom
line is labor is huge. It brings all of us together, so many
of us together, and it can be very powerful. And so there's a
lot that is going to fight that. I always think it's kind of funny
how political leaders will be against unions for three years, but when it comes
to the election year, oh my god, we love you, we're going
to to be there, we're going to support you. But it's the way
that's how they treat them, I know, absolutely, and you know because
you know, of course, with the way that money operates and power operates,
they're often in those positions because of the people with money. And so
that's a part of that's a part of the book Ship Happens, just how
money has always been a part of our political system and how it is like
pulled all the levers, you know, from just you know, basically you
know, putting their friends, you know, into the positions of power within
the government and too lobbying and things like that to get you know, get
things like laws out of there, those laws that we need to retrain us
and to you know, not have us lose our homes in economic downturns and
things like that. You know, those are laws we need. But you're
absolutely right. Often our political leaders don't think about, you know, working
people until they need that working class vote. Yeah, Jen, Where can
people go to find out more about you and show you some love? Man?
Oh? Thanks, row So definitely on my website Jalbarman dot com.
But also they can find me on Instagram at Jay Albertman. I'm pretty active
on Instagram, and I hope so, I hope everybody in the working class
will read uh Shit Happens because it's really their story. And of course you
can get that at your independent bookstore, and you can also go to the
public library and Invention of the Invention of the working Class. Go and take
it out from the library. I love it. Please come back to the
show anytime in the future. The door is always going to be open for
you. Oh, thanks for one arrow. I hope you have a great
day. Thanks for having me. You'd be brilliant today. Okay, okay, thanks