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Good morning, Jennifer. How are
you doing. I'm well, thank you,

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Ero, how are you? Absolutely
fantastic, very excited to share a

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conversation with you because this book is
so valuable and very important right now because

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as much as the older generation is
looking to even the current generations below us,

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we're not seeing the hard work,
dedication, loyalty and determination. And

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a book like this I hope inspires
people to realize, put some elbow grease

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in it and make a difference.
Well Er, I can't agree with you

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more to do this book. I
mean, you shock me in this book

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because there's so many things that we've
just walked right by and didn't realize that

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there's a story that goes along with
it. Well, writing it was,

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you know, a fantastic experience,
and you know, the working class,

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the story of working class people is
an amazing story. They are the people

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who invented public education, of the
public. Public libraries were for you know,

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sought up by unions. They've given
us so much, you know,

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besides of course the weekend and minimum
wages and working hours and you know,

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safety on the job. You know
the importance of those in the unions as

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well as the everyday employee. The
importance is is that we just go,

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h I gotta go to work.
I gotta go to a job. But

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people don't understand there is an important
position that you're playing here. Absolutely,

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and it's such a huge part of
our lives as you know, with what

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you do. You know, we
go every day and we spend just an

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amazing amount of time at our workplaces, and you know, it's a huge

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part of our lives. I they're
my family, and that's exactly how I

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treat them. I sit down and
listen to them. We work together as

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a family, and you know,
it's like it's so important that you have

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a relationship with them in the way
of being together. Yes, I mean,

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that's what I mean. That's really
what unions are. It's just solidarity

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with the with the folks that we
work with every single day. And and

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it's also very democratic. We live
in a democratic country. We're very proud

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of that, as we should be. And you know, we all have

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a say, like we'll all have
a say and what happens is coming November,

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and you know we all want that
same say on our jobs. And

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that's what unions are. It's a
you know, it's a democratic it's very

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democratic to have that say on your
job. Yeah. Coming from Montana,

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my father was part of a union, and I grew up hating the union

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because it was like my father was
always on strike and it affected our family

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life. And as I grew into
adult shoes, I had to learn to

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understand the unity of a union.
Yes, I mean, I mean that's

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there, it is right in the
word and you know, and always being

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on strike, it's it's it's so
hard because so often unions get blamed for

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so many things that aren't really they're
doing. So why are they on strike?

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Maybe it was that business or corporation
who refused to give them a wage

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increase or to make their jobs safer. So the battle and striking is one

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of the single weapons that the working
class have and so they must use it.

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Yeah. It was such a shock
when I moved down here to the

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Carolinas and they don't believe in unions
down here. I mean that really was

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probably the biggest culture shock I went
through. And I think believing in unions

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is you know, there's a lot
of there's just a lot of you know,

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I would say bad news about unions
that's put out there, you know,

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just bad press, bad propaganda against
unions that you know, I really

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hope Shift Happens changes because what unions
have done and the stories, and it's

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really Shift Happens isn't just the story
of unions or the labor movement. It's

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really it's really the story of the
United States, the birth of the United

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States, and the working class view
of what that looked like, what that

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looked like to go through you know, colonization, to go through the Industrial

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Revolution, to go through you know, World War One or World War Two

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as a working class person. So
it's more than just you know, the

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formation of unions. But of course
unions are the beating hearts of labor and

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so they're hugely important. But yeah, I mean, I just think that

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it's such an important topic for everybody, but also for young people. You're

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probably I think I'm a big jerk
here, but if I were a school

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teacher, a history teacher, it
would be required reading this book because you

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cannot understand the foundation of this nation
without understanding the people who help bring it

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together. Absolutely, I mean,
yeah, it's absolutely true. And I

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hope that I hope that I hope
that teachers will use it. I have,

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you know, on my website.
I've worked really hard to create different

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tools for teachers to be able to
use the book really easily. And I

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also when I wrote the book,
I really tried to contextualize the labor movement

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within history, and so you aren't
just reading about you know, the Triangle

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shirtwaist factory fire, or the hay
market or the pullman strike. You're not

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just reading about that. You're reading
about, you know, what is happening

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in the working class in our jobs
that is affecting those things. And one

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of the most I feel like one
of the most interesting stories is how the

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Civil War happened. And you know, you're like, okay, well why

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did the Civil War happen? And
one of the reasons why is because in

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nineteen eighteen forty eight over in Europe
they had the springtime of people and that

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they were really after democracy and to
kind of oust the monarchies, and they

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lost, and so all these people
that were like, hey, you know,

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a huge swath of the working class
over there were very demoralized and we're

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looking for democracy, and they came
here. So they came here in the

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eighteen fifties in a huge way and
when of God, here they were like,

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oh my gosh, like they took
a look at slavery, and they

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boosted the need for the Civil War. And so if eighteen forty eight hadn't

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happened and that working class hadn't come
over, the Civil War might not have

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happened for you know, another ten
years, fifteen years, who knows.

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But it's that kind of contextualization and
that part of the story of being working

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class that I really want teens and
anybody who's working class to know that history.

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So we spend so much time talking
about the past inside shift happens.

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But at the same time, my
heart is wide open and also fearful of

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this AI revolution, because I mean, if the computer is going to be

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trained to do human work, what
happens to those that are growing? Yeah,

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I know Erro and I think a
lot of people we hear a lot

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about AI. But I will say
this, and I don't know if this

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will alleviate THO fear. I'm not
sure. But you know, this story

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of labor is really the story of
skilled unskilled, because that's what capitalism,

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our economic system does. It takes
skilled workers and on de skills them.

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And I will say unskilled work are
unskilled is a historical term, and I

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only use it in that context because
I believe it takes skill to do every

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single job. But like so AI
is our newest thing. But there's been

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so many things in the past.
And one of the most interesting ones that

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I that it's in the book and
I love it. It's the story of

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glass blowers. And glass blowers were
these these workers with years worth of skill,

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like to be a glass flow to
work with glass, you needed to

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be a chemist, you know,
you needed years of training and knowledge to

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work with glass. And then in
nineteen oh two along comes the cylinder blowing

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machine and that's all over. Glass
blowing is no longer a skilled job.

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All those glass blowers have been unskilled. And so I really do think that

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this AI is the newest cylinder blowing
machine. And you know, and I'm

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not saying it's not going to destabilize
workers, like every time we go from

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skilled to unskilled, it destabilizes us. And I wish that, I wish,

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really wish that wouldn't happen. And
the way to have that not happen

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is to organize and you know,
come together in unions and then force laws

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that help us with these transitions,
because a I won't be the last technological

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advancement that comes our way, it's
just the newest one. Wow, I'll

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tell you what. In listening to
that answer right there, the one thing

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that reminded me so much of is
that forty years of radio. But I

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really didn't know who my listener was. So I took up a job at

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a grocery store to be with real
people. That's what I think everybody should

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do. Go get a retail job
and know why your other jobs are so

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important, because people are very real
and they're always needing something. Yes,

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yes, and our jobs. We
get so much to our jobs as workers,

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and those jobs should be giving back. It should be a partnership.

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And of course that's what unions are. And before when we talked about that

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propaganda, you know against unions,
they're greedy, they're this like when I

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go into schools, I really talk
to kids about Hey, like, let's

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critically examine the power structure. Like
let's take a look at this article and

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look how they call the CEO the
CEO or the president of this corporation.

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But then when we talk about the
union, we call the president of the

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union, the boss, Like we
use this vocabulary, so it's almost like,

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you know, because boss is almost
like a mob term, and so

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we go ahead and we we just
position unions in that way when really what

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they are is they are part of
the democratic system. They're just the bottom

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line is labor is huge. It
brings all of us together, so many

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of us together, and it can
be very powerful. And so there's a

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lot that is going to fight that. I always think it's kind of funny

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how political leaders will be against unions
for three years, but when it comes

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to the election year, oh my
god, we love you, we're going

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to to be there, we're going
to support you. But it's the way

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that's how they treat them, I
know, absolutely, and you know because

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you know, of course, with
the way that money operates and power operates,

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they're often in those positions because of
the people with money. And so

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that's a part of that's a part
of the book Ship Happens, just how

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money has always been a part of
our political system and how it is like

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pulled all the levers, you know, from just you know, basically you

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know, putting their friends, you
know, into the positions of power within

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the government and too lobbying and things
like that to get you know, get

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things like laws out of there,
those laws that we need to retrain us

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and to you know, not have
us lose our homes in economic downturns and

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things like that. You know,
those are laws we need. But you're

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absolutely right. Often our political leaders
don't think about, you know, working

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people until they need that working class
vote. Yeah, Jen, Where can

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people go to find out more about
you and show you some love? Man?

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Oh? Thanks, row So definitely
on my website Jalbarman dot com.

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But also they can find me on
Instagram at Jay Albertman. I'm pretty active

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on Instagram, and I hope so, I hope everybody in the working class

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will read uh Shit Happens because it's
really their story. And of course you

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can get that at your independent bookstore, and you can also go to the

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public library and Invention of the Invention
of the working Class. Go and take

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it out from the library. I
love it. Please come back to the

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show anytime in the future. The
door is always going to be open for

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you. Oh, thanks for one
arrow. I hope you have a great

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day. Thanks for having me.
You'd be brilliant today. Okay, okay, thanks