WEBVTT 1 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:44.640 Hello, and welcome to open my UFO Radio. This is your host Alejandro 2 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:52.679 Rojas, and I am joined by UFO newsman Martin Ruski. Willis Previet. 3 00:00:53.799 --> 00:00:58.119 Is that Russian? Yeah, it means. It means Joe. Oh cool, 4 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:00.920 Previet. See I told you guys, he's hed a Rusky. And 5 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:06.879 I say that lovingly. That's that's not a derogatory term, is it? 6 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:11.040 No? No, no, no no, But you're not really Russian. 7 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.840 But you're going to Russia very soon. I am. And so I'm learning 8 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:22.519 my Russian by saying I go to Russia. That's really cool. Yeah, 9 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:25.280 so I'm working hard on that. Uh huh. And why are you going 10 00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:30.000 there? Well? Is it a secret? No, my girlfriend has all 11 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:34.239 right, it's really it's really for the CIA, And I'm oh wow, 12 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:40.079 I'm covering some UFO mysteries over there. Oh cool. Or I'm visiting my 13 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:45.719 girlfriend's relatives. Oh that's fun. Yeah, so it should be fun. 14 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:48.400 I've never been there, uh huh. And you know, we may be 15 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:52.519 able to do the show while I'm there. That would be so cool. 16 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.239 That would be And I am actually now my girlfriend's parents both have had some 17 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:04.400 amazing sightings, but of course they speak not English. Huh, So are 18 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:07.480 you going to try to record for your podcast? Are you going to try 19 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:14.280 to record out there and then send it over to the Dark Matter radio guys 20 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:16.120 and have them posted or something. No, No, I'm doing a pre 21 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:22.199 recorded show this week before while I'm gone, And then I have a co 22 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:24.599 host taken over for me, Michael Louk, who used to do the news 23 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:29.560 with me before you came along. He's going to do a show for me 24 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:34.360 as well. Oh cool, So all good, yeah, fun stuff. 25 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:38.319 Well that's cool. Well you have fun over there, and stay safe, 26 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:40.680 buddy, I will. Well that's not coming up for a few weeks anyway, 27 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:45.319 but yeah, yes, so all right. Well, well the thing 28 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:51.000 is with the holiday coming up and with my inconsistencies with this my show, 29 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:57.120 you know, who knows how many shows we'll have before you leave. So 30 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:00.199 that's right. Since we're here, might as well say, hey, have 31 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:07.360 fun. Today's guest is Gene Steinberg from the Pera Cast, And I'm really 32 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.120 excited about this because they've had me on a couple of times and then Gene 33 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:14.800 and I figured out that we live near each other, and we've gone to 34 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:20.879 lunch here and then, and he's a really interesting guy with an incredible history 35 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:23.520 in this field going back decades. So we're going to have a lot of 36 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:29.960 fun talking about UFO history. All right, Well, let's get into the 37 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:35.759 UFO news for the week, and let's let you started off. What story 38 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:38.919 would you like to talk about to start off our news discussion. Well, 39 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:44.479 I'd like to talk about my old chum, Seth Showstock. H Okay, 40 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:52.000 the title is on Open Minds dot TV. As senior Setia scientists suggest, 41 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:55.120 you might be Martian. Now, I thought this is a Arcley wrote in 42 00:03:55.120 --> 00:04:01.639 the Huffington Post, and Seth Showstock Actually I've done a u of UFO debate 43 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:05.039 with him, but it was a gentleman's debate and had him on the show. 44 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:09.919 He's he's even though I don't agree with everything, I like him. 45 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:13.039 He's very likable. He's a great speaker and a lot of fun. But 46 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:16.839 he's actually saying that he thinks it's possible that billions of years ago, tiny 47 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:23.519 bits of biology actually got knocked off the planet like in rocks and floated for 48 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:28.399 about you know, a year or much more and could have actually done the 49 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:35.720 old what is it called parent spam, panned spermia and spermia to our planet. 50 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:40.040 I mean, it's a possibility. And I actually kind of you know, 51 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:43.600 I wrote him an email today kind of congratulating him for being a little 52 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:49.199 bit on the open mind, you know, thinking about this now. He 53 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:55.439 did tell me in conversation that he gets about forty five hundred emails a month, 54 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:59.040 which is I don't know how, you know, instead of looking up 55 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:01.319 at the sky, computers do all the work, so he has time to 56 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:05.959 kick around and answer emails. So he's very good actually about answering emails from 57 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:10.800 certain people. And you know, he's always been good answering emails with me. 58 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:15.959 But I thought that was good, and I I said, you know, 59 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:17.800 I just wrote him and just said, well, you know, I'm 60 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:24.279 really surprised the rover hasn't found any life signs of you know, former life 61 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:27.560 as of yet. And I really am surprised about that. And then I 62 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:30.399 said, unless they're holding it from us with a big smiley face. Saw, 63 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:35.600 I'm sure he has something to say about that. Yeah, But anyway, 64 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:39.879 check out the article. It is pretty interesting. You know, this 65 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:43.360 could have happened billions of years ago, and it's very much a possibility. 66 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:47.160 But where that life started, you know who knows. Mm hmm, yeah. 67 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:50.360 And I the reason, I well, I wanted to write about it 68 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:54.680 because it's kind of fun, you know, says shot Sex as you might 69 00:05:54.720 --> 00:06:01.240 be a Martian, but that reason, and I wanted to enter and could 70 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:04.480 be to his dismay. I mean, he may not appreciate it, but 71 00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:09.240 oh well, I wanted to do it anyway because it's it's fun. But 72 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:13.240 I wanted to interject that there is a group, and we've talked about him, 73 00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:16.160 are written about him quite a bit called the Center of Astrobiology out of 74 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:23.680 the University of Birmingham, and actually they work with the University of Alabama too, 75 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:30.680 who has an astro a NASA astrobiology group there. But there are astrobiologists 76 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:39.519 out there who believe they've already got evidence of life in space, extraterrestrial life, 77 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:46.120 and that they have some of this evidence from rocks that have come from 78 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:50.120 Mars, all things that, as you said, Shasak was saying as possible. 79 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:57.759 But I think Shostak is of the mainstream perspective that we haven't discovered any 80 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:01.199 proof yet, but there are are, you know, scientists. In fact, 81 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:04.879 we had one at the conference a couple of years ago. Who was 82 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:12.560 a NASA scientist who leaded an interview and we posted it on YouTube and it 83 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:16.759 was very popular and spawned a lot of news. But yeah, there are 84 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:21.759 these people, these scientists who believe they've all they really believe in this panspermea 85 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:27.160 idea. But I wanted to share that there are a lot of mainstream scientists 86 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:32.600 of this perspective and what Shastak makes a point of. And I've interviewed another 87 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:38.959 scientist before on the show who was a skeptic about UFOs and stuff but loved 88 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:42.839 talking about this kind of stuff, who makes the point that we don't know 89 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:49.240 how or when or where life sparked. So when that combination of you know, 90 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:55.600 innate chemicals or whatever happened and created life, we don't know where that 91 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:59.600 or how that happened, And it could have happened on a planet other than 92 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:03.920 ours, we don't know right right now. That whope. The whole thing 93 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.079 about you know, the very first spark of life is just, you know, 94 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:11.399 it's kind of like mind blowing to really trying to try to, you 95 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:15.560 know, understand how that could have actually happened, you know, is it 96 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:18.560 all an accident? Yeah? You know, who knows you know, the 97 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:22.079 right chemicals, the right energy, whatever, all happening at once. It's 98 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:24.759 it's really, you know, quite the topic. And I know that they're 99 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:30.319 trying to you know, in labs, they are trying to reproduce you know, 100 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:35.080 initial life from nothing type of thing to see how it actually happened. 101 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:39.799 But whether it happened here, happened on Mars, or happened somewhere else and 102 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:43.919 then bounced over to Mars and bounced over to us, you know who knows. 103 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:46.559 It's Yeah, it is a fascinating topic, I think. Yeah. 104 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:52.600 And then there are more stories this week too about and I haven't read them 105 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.600 actually, but someone else writing about that, and some other scientists discussing how 106 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:01.080 life could be like a virus, you know, it's just something that spreads 107 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:05.759 and infests planets out there all over the place. So it could be you 108 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:09.799 know, more of kind of a widespread kind of thing that just travels from 109 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:16.840 place to place. So really interesting that we just don't know and these possibilities 110 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:22.440 and so and Shostaks are a fun writer and he's a fun speaker. So 111 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:26.960 I liked his write up on that. It was really cool. Great, 112 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:31.240 Yeah, yep, so cool. I'm glad you liked that one. So 113 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:33.039 a couple of things I wanted to talk about. First, I wanted to 114 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:39.240 talk about and have you ever had Tom Read on your show? Yes? 115 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:43.240 Actually I just I just talked with him over the weekend. Uh huh. 116 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:48.200 He was at the Experience to Speak I was at in Portland, Maine, 117 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:52.440 along with something you know, Grant cameraon and and oh yeah, and I 118 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:56.360 don't want to steer this the wrong way, but you know, Stan Friedman 119 00:09:56.440 --> 00:10:01.240 was there and did a completely different talk than normal and it was really fantastic. 120 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:03.799 Huh. And he said it was the first time he ever tried it, 121 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:07.320 and he's going to be out there talking more. I don't know if 122 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:09.360 I should repeat, you know, the things he said, if it's going 123 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:13.240 to be available whatever, but but anyway, it was really good. It 124 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.519 was a it was what was the topic that he talked about, Well, 125 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:20.559 it's kind of just different takes on things he said before, but really getting 126 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:26.559 into details of basically what is going on on on Earth and you know, 127 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:31.919 why why they if they were visiting us, why they want to distance himself 128 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:35.279 from us. He's talked, you know, touched on that in different ways, 129 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:41.320 but this time he really got into it in great depth and statistically and 130 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:45.240 all that. So he was he was fun. I always enjoy listening to 131 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:48.200 him talk. Oh yeah, hear him speak a million times. I think 132 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:52.559 everybody really does. I mean, he's one of the people love hearing from 133 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:56.639 him. So he won't be speaking at the u next UFO Congress, but 134 00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:01.039 he will be there so, which is a lot of fun. He loves 135 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:03.679 to be there. So I don't know, we might get him on a 136 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:07.000 panel or something, or who knows, if somebody gets sick, maybe we'll 137 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:09.879 see if he wants to talk. But just because you know, we like 138 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.919 to have new and different people, and we've got a lot of people on 139 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:16.240 the list that I think a lot of people haven't heard. I know, 140 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:22.120 are spectacular and they're gonna love so so and people love to hear from him 141 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:28.159 so and I do too. He's he's That's what is really funny is that 142 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:35.399 he loves to challenge Showstack. But they both have similar senses of humor. 143 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:43.519 They're both very witty and informative and intelligent and articulate. I feel they have 144 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:46.559 a lot of similarities. Can I tell you something kind of but you know, 145 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:50.639 don't let anyone else hear it. No, yeah, you can't, 146 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:56.879 okay, geez, all right, Well Steph told me that he would never 147 00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:01.279 debate Stan again. Wow. Yeah, but he not to tell anyone. 148 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:09.080 You just hold all kuinds of people. Oh oh my goodness. Yeah. 149 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:16.919 So anyway, Tom Reid, he essentially, I guess a group of witnesses 150 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:24.360 created a monument to the sightings and events that had taken place to Tom Reid 151 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:28.679 and his family back in the sixties. And this was in the news I 152 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:35.639 guess there was when they did their memorial or dedication to this memorial. There 153 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:41.799 was at least a local celebrity I guess ay a country music music or artists 154 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:48.080 there and uh and you know the radio station that's still there where when this 155 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:52.120 happened, there were other people who witnessed this UFO that that that Tom Reid 156 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:54.559 and his family say they believe, you know, took them on board. 157 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:01.159 Uh, but that there were other people who reported this to the local radio 158 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:05.840 station, you know, many many years ago in the sixties, and that 159 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:11.480 radio station was there at the event to help represent you know, the station, 160 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:13.879 and the news was there and they did a piece on it. So 161 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:18.080 it got some local news and everything, and I know, Tom's really excited 162 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.440 about that, so I wrote about that, and so that's kind of fun. 163 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:28.879 That's kind of interesting. And the memorial is by this bridge and it's 164 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:33.759 kind of cool because it's this big concrete thing with a plaque on it and 165 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:37.600 it's right next to this old the old Sheffield Bridge, cover the bridge. 166 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:43.759 Yeah, covered bridge is beautiful bridge and it's definitely a very scenic monument, 167 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:48.759 a very pretty place. And of course monuments when it comes to this field 168 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:54.759 are not numerous. There's some around the world, but so this is kind 169 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:58.279 of unique and fun. Yeah, I think of like the Betty Barney Hill, 170 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:05.919 Randallston Forrest, the incident down in Westfall, Australia. Those are all 171 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:09.360 places that have monuments. So there's just a handful that you're right worldwide. 172 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:15.039 And it is kind of weird sitting next to, you know, an old 173 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:20.919 covered brick. But I guess that's where actually something happened. Yeah, that's 174 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.799 where you know, they drove through this bridge, I guess, and when 175 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:26.240 they came out on the other side they saw these strange lights and had a 176 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:31.960 moment of missing time where they were bored this craft for a period of time 177 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:37.000 and other people had seen the lights as well, I guess, and that 178 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:43.000 you know, sighting was a blue Book sighting and it was researched by people 179 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:48.639 including J Allen Heineck, and so it's in the blue Book files. And 180 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:52.480 I guess it's one of the cases that was listed in a bunch of credible 181 00:14:52.519 --> 00:15:00.159 cases that J. Allen Heineck said he thought was credible that he mentioned at 182 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:03.799 the UN when he did a talk at the UN. Yeah, well that 183 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:07.200 just goes to show you got to keep away from those covered bridges. Yeah, 184 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:09.279 you know, well that's like a time travel thing or something. That's 185 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:15.360 what's fun about this and about the image with the bridge. I think covered 186 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:20.600 bridges there's kind of an air of mystery in the around them. I think 187 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:26.120 for some reason, you know, you stories of just hauntings and stuff, 188 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:31.679 and they're just kind of there's also a nostalgia around them. There's just an 189 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:35.960 air about these old bridges. I think that are fun and that's what makes 190 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:43.240 it just very scenic and a pleasant scene there. Yeah, I'm on board 191 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:46.000 with that. Yep. So the other thing I wanted to talk about, 192 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:50.399 and I don't hopefully you've been able to take a look at these and I 193 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:56.679 think we even talked a little bit about this on your show. But these 194 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:03.440 UFO triangles, we get a lot of reports about UFO flying triangles, and 195 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:12.039 recently Roger Marsh has kind of been going through the moufon databases looking for mostly 196 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:18.360 cases that are closed already so they've been investigated where there are pictures and or 197 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:25.279 videos of associated with these triangle sightings. And so there are several of them 198 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:29.440 out. The latest one that we just posted, I think on Friday. 199 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:37.039 It's really cool. And this is in Mississippi, and this is a person 200 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.480 who says they are a ufologist, have been for fifteen years, and they 201 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:48.240 live in the Memphis area, and that they recently had been seeing and actually 202 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:56.080 this occurred in February. So in February they were seeing lights on several occasions 203 00:16:56.120 --> 00:17:00.080 about the same time over the house or in the area. And this lady 204 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:06.039 saw the lights at about one am, and she's been wanting to try to 205 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:11.720 get footage of it, but she so she ran outside. She's barefoot, 206 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:15.920 she's in her you know, pajamas or whatever. It's there's snow on the 207 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:23.079 ground. So she got a few seconds of these lights and she said it 208 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:27.880 looked like it was a triangular craft that was hovering over these corn fields. 209 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:33.279 She was able to watch it for a total of twenty minutes. And these 210 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:37.240 lights are really weird. I mean, if you look at this video and 211 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:41.240 these pictures, they're very strange. The local UFO investigator couldn't figure out what 212 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:48.079 they were, so he marked them as an unknown And I can't figure out 213 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:49.799 what they are either. I mean, they look a little bit maybe like 214 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:56.839 flares, but military flares because they're all grouped together. However, you know, 215 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:00.319 this isn't an area where there is military and it's an area you know, 216 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:07.559 it's kind of it's about a suburb kind of of Memphis, so there's 217 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.480 a lot of people in the area. It doesn't seem like that. And 218 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:14.200 it's not a military proving ground, which is usually where these things happened. 219 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:18.799 So I don't know what these things are. Really strange. They don't look 220 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.319 like a triangle, but she says that it was a triangle shape they were 221 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:30.359 associated with. So and then there's another one from this one was filmed in 222 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:34.559 January and this person took a bunch of pictures of these lights hovering over the 223 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:38.519 road and it's kind of one of the pictures that's really neat where they're driving 224 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:41.079 on the highway and you could see the lights above the highway at night. 225 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:47.920 And they took some pictures, a bunch of pictures that are really interesting of 226 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:52.519 these lights. I guess it's possible these lights could have been a plane because 227 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:56.079 it's not a video. But this person said, you know, the object 228 00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:02.400 was quiet and they saw a big triangular craft. And then another video is 229 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:06.240 from a guy who used to be in the Navy. He worked in Navy 230 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:11.240 rescue. He says he knows navy aircraft and he knows aircraft warning lights. 231 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:15.759 This was not a normal aircraft. He said it was triangular in shape and 232 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:21.119 it had lights around it. He got a short video. The video, 233 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:25.039 again is just lights in the sky, but they are blinking in a weird 234 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:30.319 pattern. They're blinking very strangely, and they are in a triangular formation. 235 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:33.839 So it's just kind of interesting that a lot of people are seeing these triangles 236 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:37.599 and we have these pictures and videos. Unfortunately, there are all nighttime sighting, 237 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:42.079 so you can't really make out a shape of a craft. And in 238 00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:45.839 the end, when it comes down to the videos and pictures, there just 239 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:52.200 lights in the night sky. But coupled with the witness testimony, really interesting 240 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:56.960 stuff. It is. You know, going back to the Lewisbourg Mississippi one, 241 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:03.240 the lights are like clustered, clustered and almost like omnidirectional, like they're 242 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.039 going facing out in different directions. I don't know if you notice that. 243 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:11.359 So it's not like they're all like you know, a lot of times when 244 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:15.119 you see lights in the sky, you can see the whole light like an 245 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:19.200 orb or something like that. But yeah, appear as they're turning like they're 246 00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:23.960 actually toward a direction, Like each light is like facing out toward a direction. 247 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:30.759 It's really very very strange. I like the video. Yeah, so 248 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:34.200 at those lights, you know, the other pictures and videos, I think 249 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:37.920 someone could easily dismiss with, you know, if they just wanted to throw 250 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:44.920 out the witness testimony as planes or maybe a drone with LEDs on it or 251 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:51.160 something like this. But hers that Mississippi one, I don't know what the 252 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:55.599 heck that is. Those are really weird clusters of lights and every you know, 253 00:20:55.640 --> 00:21:02.400 and they change like their positions. So yeah, that's a weird video, 254 00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:06.119 it really is. Yeah, what's going on with these triangles? Man? 255 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:11.799 This is weird stuff. I don't know and who I got to comment 256 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:19.960 the other day on a show from Don Ecker the Old Time you know you 257 00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:23.960 follow, just just saying that he thinks there, you know again, he's 258 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:27.039 talking about the military craft. He thinks a lot of them are you know, 259 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:30.440 secret military craft. And you know, who's to say they're not. 260 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:33.079 I mean, I just yeah, they could be that just as easy as 261 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:37.599 anything else. It's just the fact that it sure seems like we would know 262 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:41.119 something about him if they actually were military. It seems like the leak would 263 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:44.799 get out there somehow. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I don't know. 264 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:48.960 Yeah, who knows. Really interesting stuff though. So that's the UFO news 265 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:52.759 for the week. Everybody can of course check that out at Openminds dot tv. 266 00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:57.640 And thank you Martin for joining us again, and of course you can 267 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:06.759 hear Martin and his antics over on his podcast podtast podcast UFO. Thanks man, 268 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:10.319 we'll be talking next week or real soon. Actually, all right, 269 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:15.400 talk to you soon, buddy, You gotcha. I am very excited to 270 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:21.000 have Jean Steinberg joining me. Hello, Jean, Well, I'm glad you're 271 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:25.640 excited that I'm excited. I am, and this is fun because I was 272 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:30.319 thinking about this earlier. It's like you do a popular podcast to para cast 273 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:34.599 with Chris O'Brien, and of course I do this podcast, And in order 274 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:40.160 for our listeners to find out more about us, the podcasters, they've got 275 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:45.720 to listen to someone else's podcast with us on it so they can hear about 276 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:49.240 our backgrounds and stuff. Isn't that kind of funny unless you share that sort 277 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:52.519 of thing on your show. Well, we don't list to other shows that 278 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.960 much, not because we don't like the other shows. It's because it's not 279 00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:02.799 fair to single out a few and not list them all. So if someone 280 00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:06.799 has a show, like you have a show, and Micah Hanks has a 281 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:11.799 show, we allow you to publicize what you're doing. But if it was 282 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:17.359 a case of listing a lot of shows, the ones we leave out what 283 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:21.480 about them? And then if it was a case of advertising, well, 284 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:26.079 of course, since we're doing a commercial radio show that's actually heard on terrestrial 285 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.759 radio stations, we already run enough commercials. Yeah. No, I guess 286 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:36.240 what I meant was like, in order to find out about Alejandro Rojas and 287 00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:40.680 my thoughts, they would need to listen to when I was on your show 288 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:47.519 and talked about that sort of thing to find that out, and then for 289 00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:52.240 your listeners, you know, we'll probably get into some stuff in this show 290 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.880 that your listeners don't know about you. So it's just kind of funny, 291 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.640 ironic, I guess, And if I don't know, if I don't know 292 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:02.200 the answer, I'll make it up. Yeah, good, good, good 293 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:06.720 good. Well this is exciting because you've been in this for so long, 294 00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:11.319 and you know some of the guys you know that have also been in this 295 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:18.559 for so long and had some interesting insight into way back when and how everything's 296 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:22.519 gone. But I guess to start off, let's start off with how did 297 00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:30.880 you get interested in UFOs? A silly story. I was eleven years old, 298 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:33.839 and a lot of people who have become interested in UFOs did it at 299 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:37.759 the age of eleven. In my particular case, I was visiting my brother 300 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:44.440 Wally at a home in Brooklyn, New York, and on his coffee table 301 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:48.720 was a copy of a book called Flying Saucers from Outer Space by Major Keyhoe. 302 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:53.519 Don't ask me why I said this. He wasn't home, he was 303 00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:57.799 at work. I asked his wife, can I read that book? And 304 00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.079 she said, you know, it's a library book. We have to return 305 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.119 it in a couple of weeks, but borrow it if you want. So, 306 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:08.480 okay, I took the book home. I read the book in a 307 00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:15.599 couple of evenings, and I was hooked. I guess I can see that 308 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.640 that was one of the first books I read, or at least one of 309 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:23.279 Key Hoost's books, and I just found it. I guess what was fascinating 310 00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:26.640 to me about it is I didn't know anything that was in the book, 311 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:32.880 and everything that was in the book was very valid, very interesting, and 312 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:37.880 not the type of thing you see in documentaries. Well, in those days, 313 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:41.240 we didn't have documentaries so much as we do now. I mean, 314 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:49.160 you actually had these what ten to fifteen minute news segments in the movies before 315 00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:55.440 you saw the show movie tone news or something like that. Not much so 316 00:25:55.519 --> 00:26:00.920 much. A documentary is kind of half a newscast. Yeah, And can 317 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:07.039 I ask about what year was this? Oh? When I read the book? 318 00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:10.119 Oh, this would well, I don't know. I don't really want 319 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:12.759 to reveal that because that would reveal too much about me. Let's assume it's 320 00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:18.079 a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. But I do have 321 00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:22.599 an interesting story about the book by Keyho Flying saucerss No Matter of Space. 322 00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.400 The book came out and by the way, in nineteen fifty three, Uh 323 00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:29.559 cool, I have a story about it, which probably some of you heard 324 00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:33.200 of. No I want to hear it. Okay, So the book was 325 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:38.000 bought by Hollywood. Okay, m hm. And Keio mentions this in one 326 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:42.160 of his subsequent books because he had to live it down. The optioned the 327 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:47.799 book. I yes, he thought it was going to be a documentary. 328 00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:52.599 And there was a film that came out in nineteen fifty six, a very 329 00:26:52.000 --> 00:27:00.200 famous film with really really good special effects from the nineteen fifties, and the 330 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.880 first maybe thirty seconds or a minute shows something that's almost a UFO documentary. 331 00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:10.680 And then it was a b sci fi movie about aliens trying to conquer Earth. 332 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:15.839 It was a movie that featured special effects by Ray Harry Howsen. So 333 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.400 many of you people know what it is. Some of the best special effects 334 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:22.480 in a movie of this sort that you've ever seen up until more recent times. 335 00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:30.119 The movie was called Earth Versus the Flying Saucers, okay, And if 336 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:37.920 you look at the Wikipedia entry on it, it's based on Flying Saucers from 337 00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:45.319 Outer Space by Donald Kehoe rather superficially. So I don't think Keho ever lived 338 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:48.960 that down, because if you read about it in subsequent books of his he 339 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:53.279 was really embarrassed over what they did. But of course, when you option 340 00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:57.799 a book to Hollywood, they do anything they want with it, unfortunately, 341 00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:03.039 and that is really interesting. I think it's interesting too. I mean I 342 00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.680 heard this recently, maybe you heard this prior, but Close Encounters, you 343 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:11.680 know, being based off of a lot of Heine's work, or I'm doing 344 00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:17.359 consulting on that. I think I love Close Encounters, but Heine hated it, 345 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:23.680 and I guess I can see that. When you know, nobody likes 346 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:30.720 someone portraying their hard work, especially someone who's been rigorous and careful at you 347 00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:40.960 know, verifying sources and information and not getting it accurately. Well, that's 348 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:47.000 really part of the issue there. You don't expect a Hollywood movie to be 349 00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:51.480 an accurate representation, even if it's ripped from the headlines as they do on 350 00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:56.319 TV. Sometimes it's based on a real story, they're going to compress it 351 00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:00.880 to fit an hour and a half two hours. They're going to telegraph certain 352 00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:06.160 events because they want to make an entertaining film. It's about entertainment, it's 353 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:10.000 about getting good box office. It's not about telling a factual story. But 354 00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:15.240 what's worse is that the news media is very much like that nowadays. It's 355 00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:22.519 about getting the ratings yep. And that means again, right, it means 356 00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:27.440 creating battle lines where they don't exist, emphasizing the most sensational aspects of a 357 00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:32.759 story. I will say they make it up, but we could argue about 358 00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:37.559 that with certain cable TV networks, that's for sure. So at one point 359 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:41.920 then, did you get actively involved where you you know, what was your 360 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:49.440 first active involvement with either research or media, or you know, something bigger 361 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:56.720 than just reading what was out there. Mid nineteen sixties, I became one 362 00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.519 of those teen ufologists that would put out their own mat magazines. Oh cool, 363 00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:06.319 So I put out my own magazine and it lasted I think thirteen issues, 364 00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:11.799 lucky thirteen till the time I think I was twenty or so, and 365 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:17.240 I ran out of money. So I went over to my friend Jim Mosley 366 00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:19.759 of Saucer News, and I said, Jim, I have this magazine with 367 00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:23.720 a few hundred subscribers. Would you be willing to take over the subscriptions, 368 00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:27.680 and he said sure, and he said, by the way, you know, 369 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:30.680 I was a college student at the time, studying broadcasting. By the 370 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.960 way, I've got a job for you if you'd like to make five dollars 371 00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:41.759 an hour, as is nineteen sixties dollars the minimum wage was a dollar fifty. 372 00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.240 It's like making I think I figured it out once. It's like making 373 00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:49.000 today maybe fifty or seventy dollars an hour. Wow, a lot of money. 374 00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:52.920 Five dollars an hour in the nineteen fifties, and I was in seventh 375 00:30:52.920 --> 00:31:00.160 Heaven. I said yes. So that's when I became super active. Wow. 376 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:06.400 Now, Jim Moseley, I've interviewed him. However, he's kind of 377 00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:08.519 a guy, and that's what's interesting about this field. And I guess that's 378 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:12.160 what it's fun about doing what we do and why it's fun to interview someone 379 00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:18.759 like you. A lot of this history really gets lost to obscurity, and 380 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.480 I'm afraid and that's why I bring him up as much as possible, that 381 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.519 Jim Moseley, now that he's passed away as one of those people. Even 382 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:30.720 before he passed, he started kind of because he was so into print, 383 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:34.359 you know, which was a dying art and was getting a bit lost to 384 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:42.160 many. Jim Moseley was an interesting and important character in the UFO field for 385 00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:48.799 many years. What's sad about it is Jim didn't have a personal computer, 386 00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:53.960 never booked one. He did his publication Saucer Smear on an old Smith Corona 387 00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:59.359 electric typewriter from the nineteen eighties. He would buy several of them, so 388 00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:01.960 in the type was gone, he'd have a new one. Wouldn't learn a 389 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:07.599 personal computer. Didn't even have an answering system on his phone, and these 390 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:12.920 days your phone provider will provide voicemail. Didn't have that, so if you 391 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:15.720 called him and there was no answer, it's because he had no way to 392 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:22.000 get that message. So he was very much into that. Also, in 393 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:24.599 his last few years he gave away a lot of his stuff to other people. 394 00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:30.119 One to a UFO researcher. I don't think he's still alive. Tom 395 00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:34.920 Benson got a lot of his material. I got a little bit of it, 396 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.759 but not very much. He gave away a lot of his material. 397 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:43.079 Now when he died, everything he had was kind of put out on the 398 00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:46.480 doorstep at the apartment where he lived, and it was given away or sold 399 00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:51.440 for very little money. In fact, someone posted a message in our forums 400 00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:55.319 this is weeks after Jim died, asking if people want to buy things? 401 00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:00.880 I mean, really sad. I know at one point Jim was very, 402 00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:07.160 very dedicated to keeping a personal diary. I don't know whatever happened to it 403 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:13.960 right now, other than the episodes you did with Open Minds and the many 404 00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:16.680 episodes we did on the Power Cast with Jim and other shows on what she 405 00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:22.799 appeared. The book shockingly close to the truth that he wrote with Carl Flock 406 00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:29.279 in the early two thousands. That's probably the closest to a real autobiography you'll 407 00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:36.000 ever get. And now he ran this paper, this newsletter, Saucer News, 408 00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:43.440 which eventually turned in to Saucer Smear. When you were with him doing 409 00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:46.519 Saucer News, how popular did it get about? You know what was the 410 00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:55.880 largest the subscription got? It actually got I think to as much as seventy 411 00:33:55.880 --> 00:34:01.279 five hundred or ten thousand people. Wow, really really terrific. The problem 412 00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:07.039 then, is that the magazine was never, in terms of production values good 413 00:34:07.159 --> 00:34:10.639 enough to be on the newsstands. I think if it was, it could 414 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:15.519 have sold ten times that amount. It would require more work. You'd have 415 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:21.480 to have a larger magazine, right or he had it would be a professional 416 00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:27.840 looking magazine, but at the tip of being super professional. And there what 417 00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:31.559 he achieved was tremendous because for many years he had less than a thousand subscribers, 418 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:37.559 and then things kind of dropped back and Jim got overworked and frustrated with 419 00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:45.559 everything very much after having this major UFO conference in nineteen sixty seven, so 420 00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:47.679 two or three years later, he handed it off to his friend Gray Barker, 421 00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:55.320 who basically ran it into the ground. And then go ahead, I 422 00:34:55.360 --> 00:35:00.519 was going to ask, when did it turn into the Saucer smear? Okay, 423 00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:06.840 mid seventies, Jim tries to bring something back a regular publication. And 424 00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:09.719 to give you an example of this, during the days of Saucer News, 425 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:15.480 there was a second magazine called the Non Scheduled Newsletter. They'd bring out like 426 00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:17.360 every couple of months, and he charged a little bit extra for you to 427 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:21.840 get a copy. I think in connection with that, what we do here 428 00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:24.320 on the Power Cast is we have a free show and then we have a 429 00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:29.840 premium show called Powercasts Plus, which is the ad free version of our regular 430 00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:34.199 show. And then we add an extra program called after the Power Cast. 431 00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:37.760 So in Jim's days, we had a non scheduled newsletter. When he came 432 00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:43.199 back. He decided to come out with four or eight pages of something. 433 00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:47.800 And in the early days he would take the name Saucer and the second word 434 00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:52.719 would be something else. It wasn't smear, which it later became. It 435 00:35:52.760 --> 00:36:00.280 was something else, and every issue would be a different name, like who 436 00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:02.760 or Saucer or water or whatever. Every issue would be a different name. 437 00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:06.960 He did this for a few years. I remember I was working at a 438 00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:14.079 pre press typography shop in New York City and I learned these skills doing magazines 439 00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:17.320 and I would generate bunches of headlines to them or just individual letters, and 440 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:21.360 he kind of cut and paste them and come up with a new name. 441 00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:25.199 One day he said, let's just call it smear. And that's how it 442 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:30.599 started. Well, and it's really funny, and I guess I'm guessing, 443 00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:37.000 and you can tell me whether I'm run or wrong that he began as you 444 00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:39.440 know that, I'm sure the Saucer news was more serious kind of news and 445 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:44.679 information, but the Smear came into where it was kind of laughing at the 446 00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:49.159 UFO community pointing out, you know, almost like a gossam piece. And 447 00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:52.639 I do know other researchers who would, you know, secretly feed him information 448 00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:58.280 so he could make fun of him or call him out on something, which 449 00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:00.559 is good. You know, I think it's not problem to call people out 450 00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:07.119 on some silliness or whatever. But and you can kind of see people evolve 451 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:12.519 into this. People in this field who are observing the field kind of begin 452 00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:20.639 to get a little well, not just frustrated, but also kind of laugh 453 00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:27.519 at themselves. But the entire kind of how it all works. Well, 454 00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:30.920 the thing about Jim is that you had, at the core of it a 455 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:35.239 very serious interest in UFOs. He played games in the early days of saucer 456 00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:40.880 News. Saucer News began its existence in nineteen fifty four as Nexus short for 457 00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:45.960 Connecting Link, but people didn't understand the name, so eventually he said, 458 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:51.119 okay, saucer News. It was a heavy mixture of really serious information, 459 00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:55.800 really serious research. In nineteen fifty seven they did an expose of Georgia Dampsky 460 00:37:55.880 --> 00:38:00.400 via Dampski Expose Edition, And if you go online now when you look for 461 00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:06.719 Jimmosley dot com, it's actually published there. It's run by our good friend 462 00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:12.599 Kirk Collins, and I actually hosted on my web server, so I guess 463 00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:15.320 I'm behind that site. But Kirk does the day to day work. But 464 00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:19.599 that's where you can catch up with Jim Moseley. So right there, we're 465 00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:25.000 collecting stuff about him from different people, interviews and everything, and it gets 466 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:30.280 posted. So that and the book, I guess maybe maybe that would be 467 00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:36.599 sufficient. But as far as the back issues of Saucer News and some of 468 00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:40.360 the Saucer smears, they're all over the place right still trying to collect those. 469 00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:47.119 I used to have every issue of Saucer News until the end. What 470 00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:52.159 happened. I moved a few times. I had to shed stuff. Maybe 471 00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:55.119 I moved a few times with a little bit of encouragement from the landlord, 472 00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:01.159 as we all have, and over time I had to get rid of stuff. 473 00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:08.360 I remarried in nineteen seventy six, and at that point we're building a 474 00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:12.360 new life, and she said, do you really need all this stuff? 475 00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.199 And I looked at it and said, well, I'm probably going to have 476 00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:20.199 to get rid of some of that, and I did. So I have 477 00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:23.920 maybe a fraction of the UFO related stuff I used to have I think if 478 00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:30.159 I kept it all and anytime I needed money, if I put that stuff 479 00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:32.239 on eBay, I probably would have made a pretty penny. Yeah, that's 480 00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:36.639 right. I would have been buying from it. And I know others who 481 00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:39.360 well and you do too, who love to keep an eye out for that 482 00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:45.400 sort of stuff. They kind of preserve it. But so you brought up 483 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:50.480 a damp Ski and so for people who don't know Georgia Damski. In the 484 00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:52.280 fifties, you know, there were these contact these people who believe they were 485 00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:58.199 talking to aliens. Georgia Damski was one of those. And he has a 486 00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:06.280 lot of alleged photograph even a video of ufo, and this ufo is kind 487 00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:10.320 of the iconic UFO. It's funny. I'm into watching like these Japanese anime 488 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:15.360 and stuff like that, and they're always showing the Adamski ufo where it has 489 00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:20.679 the three little balls on the bottom half, you know, circle type of 490 00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:25.599 things. But a lot of people credit mostly with kind of busting a dam 491 00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:30.639 Ski. And were you involved with that investigation and what did you guys find. 492 00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:35.559 Well, as I said, having the nineteen fifty seven a little before 493 00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:40.320 my time in terms of UFO research. But no, he worked with a 494 00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:45.440 few of his colleagues and they put the information together, not showing the ge 495 00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:49.719 on the bottom of the landing balls, but the point being that this was 496 00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:57.440 basically absurd. The photo was absurd, It was visibly absurd, and all 497 00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:01.880 the things about it that a professional photo analysts would consider show it to be 498 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:07.000 a very poorly built model. Now there was one really significant thing in the 499 00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:10.639 Adamski expose a issue, and once again it's available at Jimoseley dot com for 500 00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:15.440 you to read. And the thing that's significant is he said to one of 501 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:21.079 his supporters, sometimes you have to go through the back door to spread the 502 00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:25.559 truth. And the truth was not that Et landed here wearing a silver uniform 503 00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:30.679 like Michael Rennie did as Klatou and they the earth stood still. The truth 504 00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:35.599 was, well, you know, we need to be nice to one another. 505 00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:39.239 And if Georgia Dampski says that we should give up war, who listens 506 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:44.519 to him? This is the height of the cold water. But if these 507 00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:51.039 edicts came from Et, they get more credibility. So I guess he felt 508 00:41:51.079 --> 00:41:54.519 the truth that he had to spread, and he looked for a way to 509 00:41:54.679 --> 00:42:00.199 make it palatable because who's Georgia Dampski or who was Jeordie Jadamski before he said 510 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:05.639 he was contacted, And that may be a lot of it. It's also 511 00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.000 possible, and this is a very outside theory that I voiced occasionally, and 512 00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:13.039 you can feel free to throw it in the garage, and that is that 513 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:20.280 perhaps some of these contactees had some early paranormal experience at one point in time, 514 00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:27.320 and maybe in telling it they got more prestige, They were taken more 515 00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:32.639 seriously than maybe they otherwise were, so suddenly their followers or whoever believed in 516 00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:37.440 them, no doubt, expected more, so they had to make up a 517 00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:43.760 few things. Yeah, interesting that. Both of those are interesting ideas. 518 00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:49.119 The first idea about you know, having this message important message coming from some 519 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:53.840 authority is probably what has spawned many religions. But yeah, when you're talking 520 00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:59.039 about it, you know, Ben Hants uses this term legendizing, where there's 521 00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:01.559 like, you know, someone takes a UFO video or picture that's real, 522 00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:07.599 and then people expect more so they begin faking. A lot of people speculate 523 00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:12.440 that could be what happened with Billy Meyer, because certainly many of much of 524 00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:19.760 his stuff has been completely debunked. But I mean, have you seen it 525 00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:29.400 does seem like maybe that phenomena has been repeated over the years in what sense 526 00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:36.679 you mean of the people kind of getting a bit of notoriety witnesses and then 527 00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:43.880 having to seemingly having to, you know, keep coming up with stuff. 528 00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:45.880 Well, we can't prove that, you know, we can only prove that 529 00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:52.079 the information appears to be false. There's no evidence for it. Photographs appear 530 00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:55.760 to be fake. So we could look on the service and say it's all 531 00:43:55.840 --> 00:44:00.320 nonsense, it's a theory, it's all none sense. They're making up stories. 532 00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:06.960 But there's always the possibility at the core of it there was some kind 533 00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:10.440 of real event that made them do this. I mean, what inspired Georgia 534 00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:15.719 Damski to say he met et? I guess the guy's name was Orthon in 535 00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:22.639 the calif Fournia Desert. Did he believe that? Was he deluded? Did 536 00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:27.320 he make it up? Why? Because selling hot dogs at Mount Palomar wasn't 537 00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:31.679 enough for him? What motivated him to do that? What motivates a Billy 538 00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:38.519 Meyer for doing what he does? Does he truly believe in what he says 539 00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:44.000 that he can predict things? When he can't that his photographs are are genuine 540 00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:50.039 when they're obvious fakes. Does he believe that he meets space women who look 541 00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:54.360 like a couple of actresses or models on the old Dean Martin TV show in 542 00:44:54.480 --> 00:45:00.880 nineteen seventies. I mean, is he crazy or is he just trying to 543 00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:06.480 make a profit. Yeah, and these people are not going to necessarily confess. 544 00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:14.039 And I think these are some of the questions that Mosley kind of tackled, 545 00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:19.599 And I think that's why he wanted to highlight some of this stuff that 546 00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:23.840 goes on, because it seems like that was an outstanding question for him as 547 00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:31.960 well. It is and again, we don't have contact these sitting back and 548 00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:37.119 confessing. The closest we came to that it's really crazy was Howard Mener. 549 00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:45.159 Now, as you remember, Howard Mener was someone who claimed a damnsea type 550 00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:52.480 contact, meaning handsome humans from Venus, Saturn or whatever places were. Obviously 551 00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:58.639 life as we know it could not survive. He made those claims. He 552 00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:04.719 was a sign painter and the pictures he produced looked like paintings. In fact, 553 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:10.239 one of a UFO was a painting of the flying saucer taking off in 554 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:15.960 the movie day of the Earth stood still. Look it up yourself now. 555 00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:20.119 One day, this is an interesting story. One day Jim Moseley at Saucer 556 00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:23.840 News gets a phone call from Howard Mander. I was there working next to 557 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:29.000 Jim, and he says he wants to have lunch with Jim, and I 558 00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:32.559 was there across for the ride. So we went across the street and met 559 00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:38.800 him at a diner on Fifth Avenue in New York City, and Manders said, 560 00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:45.920 you know what I'm thinking here that this whole contact was staged by the 561 00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:50.239 government. The experiences I have were really a government test of some sort, 562 00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:53.119 and I got hooked up in it. And that's what he said. He 563 00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:57.880 went on and on. He seemed like a perfectly decent guy, and then 564 00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:01.360 he and his family moved over to Florida, where he said he was building 565 00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:10.559 a flying saucer. Don't ask me to explain the connection, but that is 566 00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:16.199 at least one person who for a time admitted his contacts were not real. 567 00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:22.000 Again, he said it was a government trickery or something like that. What 568 00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:25.960 made it worse, though, was that Mennger appeared on The Long John Neble 569 00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:29.920 Show. He had a TV show for about a year or so, but 570 00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:35.840 Long John never really transferred to TV that well, I don't do TV either 571 00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:39.559 because they don't cast the reflection. So he goes on Long John's show and 572 00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:46.800 he is used to hearing Howard Mender's story and he expects that story. Instead, 573 00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:53.679 Mennger goes on and on about this possible government involvement, and John did 574 00:47:53.800 --> 00:48:00.440 not like to be surprised. He took it gamely, I guess, But 575 00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:07.079 the impression you got was that long John was very upset that the stick didn't 576 00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:14.800 work. Mensor changed the rules, and I think it wasn't it that Menjor 577 00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:21.840 also then later said, oh, that government paid me off and told me 578 00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:24.840 they had let me build the UFO. If I said that my experiences weren't 579 00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:31.000 real but they were real later in his life, it got to be pretty 580 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:36.599 confusing. Yeah, yeah, it got to be pretty confusing. So the 581 00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:43.119 point is here is that if et comes into flying saucer and they land in 582 00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:46.039 front of Howard Manager, why would that craft look to be the same as 583 00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:50.440 in a nineteen fifty one sci fi movie unless you want to say, well, 584 00:48:51.159 --> 00:48:54.920 this movie they the earth stood still, some of that stuff represented real 585 00:48:54.960 --> 00:49:01.000 ets. Maybe Gork was really the actual robot there, not just something that 586 00:49:01.079 --> 00:49:07.039 Hollywood invented. I mean, it's nonsense. That's what's difficult about this. 587 00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.199 You know, I'm sure you get this, and we do as well. 588 00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:15.400 And it's one thing I struggle with and I is that we get a lot 589 00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:20.440 of people contacting us that say I'm talking to aliens. Aliens are telling me 590 00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:24.280 x y Z. And the question is whether they believe that to be true 591 00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:29.880 or not. Of course, they're the only ones receiving these communications, and 592 00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:34.159 what they have to say is not the same as the next person who contacts 593 00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:37.159 you or the dozens of others who have contacted you, and so I typically 594 00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:43.760 stay away from that. I don't have those people on I. Typically we 595 00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:47.320 don't really have them at the Congress. Typically, if we do, it's 596 00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:52.480 people who have experiences, at least alleged to have experiences, hopefully with other 597 00:49:52.599 --> 00:50:00.760 witnesses or something. But and that's the outstanding question is do these people really 598 00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:08.559 believe that they're having contacts? Although I do hear anecdotally that some of them 599 00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:13.239 know very well that they're not having things experiences, but they make it up 600 00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:19.679 just to go to conferences. What are your thoughts? I like to think 601 00:50:19.760 --> 00:50:22.880 they're just making it up, because if they're not, they're probably crazy. 602 00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:25.639 At least a lot of them are. It doesn't mean that some people aren't 603 00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:31.800 having experiences. It doesn't mean that some people are not channeling something they believe 604 00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:37.760 they're they believe they're channeling et M. There are people who believe that there 605 00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:43.320 are people who have experiences that they interpret in that way. I think for 606 00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:45.719 the most part, those aren't the people who go out and seek attention M. 607 00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:52.760 I think the people who get up front and go on TV and go 608 00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:57.199 on radio and write the books. I think they're looking for more than just 609 00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:01.719 trying to convey the information about an unusual experience. I mean, we have 610 00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:07.480 all sorts of crazy things going on. We have near death experiences, we 611 00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:10.679 have abductions, we have people who claim to channel or be in contact with 612 00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:17.480 higher beings and getting all these messages. Now we could consider, all right, 613 00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:21.519 maybe a bunch of them are fake, Maybe a bunch of them are 614 00:51:21.880 --> 00:51:28.360 doing it for publicity. Maybe a bunch of them are having this experience and 615 00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:34.239 that's how they interpret it, and we need to find out what's going on. 616 00:51:35.320 --> 00:51:37.239 I think if you forget about the people who are I call them, 617 00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:45.639 professional psychics, professional contact ease and put them away and forget about them and 618 00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:50.880 deal with just people having unusual experiences. It would be nice to understand it 619 00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:54.320 and understand the source. I don't think what they see is what they're getting 620 00:51:54.360 --> 00:52:00.800 though, And maybe you follow where I'm getting at it well and what I 621 00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:05.159 also think about. And I think it's definitely akin to you know, the 622 00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:10.079 many, many religious people who believe they've gotten a message from Jesus or Allah 623 00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:14.760 or or from God, you know, at some point in their life. 624 00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:17.800 That's how they translate it. And similar to what you're saying, I think 625 00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:22.199 the vast majority of those people are just regular people, not seeking attention, 626 00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:28.039 who will share those stories, you know, with loved ones or trusted individuals, 627 00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:36.440 maybe just a couple of times throughout their lives. But here again it 628 00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:37.840 comes back to what you just said, Yeah, what is the root? 629 00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:45.480 What's really happening in that experience? We don't get anywhere though, if we 630 00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:51.960 assume it is what it appears to be on the surface, if we assume 631 00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:54.239 it's just ET and ET is not just. But you get the point. 632 00:52:54.760 --> 00:53:00.679 If we assume that near death experiences do represent some visit to the Afterlife. 633 00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:07.280 In fact, we had a very fascinating editorial guest editorial posted in our newsletter, 634 00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:10.320 the Powercast Newsletter, and also in our forums that form dot thepowercast dot 635 00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:19.119 com. There's the plug by red Pill Junkie where he pointed out the commonalities 636 00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:25.280 between near death experiences UFO, abductions and similar experiences. They may be a 637 00:53:25.400 --> 00:53:30.639 central cause, but we don't look at that at all. We look at 638 00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:35.360 the surface possibility. Well, someone sees a UFO, maybe they're abducted and 639 00:53:35.440 --> 00:53:38.519 they meet aliens, or someone is in a state of clinical death for a 640 00:53:38.599 --> 00:53:45.320 few minutes and they see the afterlife. They're looking at the surface, but 641 00:53:45.559 --> 00:53:52.440 not the substance. Right right, next topic. I wanted to ask you 642 00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:58.000 about interesting stuff there, Thank you, but I thought you would have some 643 00:53:58.119 --> 00:54:01.440 particular insight on kind of a debate that's that's a small debate, you know, 644 00:54:01.559 --> 00:54:07.519 on my Facebook this morning between a couple of people regarding something sas Shawstak 645 00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:10.559 wrote today, he wrote about UFOs. He doesn't do that often, and 646 00:54:10.679 --> 00:54:17.639 of course he's he is a senior scientist for SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial 647 00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:24.400 Intelligence Institute UH and of course they're using more conventional means like trying to listen 648 00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:28.920 to radio signals and stuff. But he kind of said that, you know 649 00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:31.400 that the whole field is a bit dying, that they there aren't very any 650 00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:36.760 interesting cases anymore, and so people are debating that. Some people are saying 651 00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:40.440 yes, uh. In fact, Chris Rutowski, who is a Canadian UFO 652 00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:45.559 researcher and he's going to present his work at the UFO Congress this year, 653 00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:50.960 actually he says, you know, he agrees that their studies have shown, 654 00:54:51.079 --> 00:54:53.320 you know that most of the sightings they are getting these days are not that 655 00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:59.960 interesting. Someone, as someone who's been writing and covering this stuff for day 656 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:05.400 decades, what would your thoughts be on that the kind of sightings that we 657 00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:09.360 had in the early days. I'm thinking in a sense of simultaneous radar visual 658 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:17.119 sightings the mass UFO siding over in Washington, DC. A lot of those 659 00:55:17.360 --> 00:55:22.840 very sensational cases do not seem to occur, but we still have UFOs. 660 00:55:24.199 --> 00:55:28.880 So I don't know. That's a good question. Obviously, if you look 661 00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:31.960 at the number of reports that come out up move On or that Chris Rotzkowski 662 00:55:32.039 --> 00:55:37.559 has over at his site for Canada, there's a lot of stuff going on 663 00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:42.840 there. But again, the percentage of sightings that appear to be compelling, 664 00:55:43.960 --> 00:55:46.840 I don't see a lot. I don't agree with the theory that some people 665 00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:51.760 have voiced that the UFOs actually left us a while back and that all the 666 00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:55.920 sightings are fake. These days, I still think it's going on well, 667 00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:00.840 and I would I think there's been a change, I mean as well in 668 00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:07.280 the way our access. Whereas our government used to be at least open to 669 00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:16.280 discussing the topic, that's not the case anymore, and so especially the government 670 00:56:16.400 --> 00:56:24.800 is less open to sharing possible UFOs or unknowns that they haven't identified, and 671 00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:32.280 thus we seemingly have less access to some of the great information that people had 672 00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:37.280 in the past. Well, as you know, a lot of the information 673 00:56:37.400 --> 00:56:43.039 that Major Kio had came from the Air Force and the contacts he had at 674 00:56:43.079 --> 00:56:46.960 the Air Force. So at that point there was Project Blue Book, and 675 00:56:47.079 --> 00:56:52.199 maybe we could say it was just a pr operation, but at least there 676 00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:55.519 was some information there. Now, officially, the US government no longer investigates 677 00:56:55.639 --> 00:57:02.320 UFOs, so we have no aspects or access to the sensational cases that we 678 00:57:02.440 --> 00:57:07.559 get them. They're no longer there. If they happen somebody might have the 679 00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:15.000 information, but it's not being released officially. It doesn't exist. So one 680 00:57:15.800 --> 00:57:19.800 key source of information if you look at the early books from keyhow if you 681 00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:24.800 look at the book the Report on Unidentified Flying Objects by Edward Rupelt, you 682 00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:30.039 will see the government was a major source for these cases or cases a got 683 00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:36.480 llah of publicity in connection with a government investigation like Kenneth Arnold, like a 684 00:57:36.519 --> 00:57:43.320 lot of the other cases again nineteen fifty two, Washington, DC encounters those 685 00:57:43.400 --> 00:57:49.320 things. But now we don't have that anymore. We've just got scattered individuals 686 00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:54.239 who report cases and maybe they'll call a move on or an arcap or they'll 687 00:57:54.280 --> 00:57:59.920 call you would open Minds, or they'll call Chris Rukowskier right to these people 688 00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:05.960 and they'll tell them what's going on. But we have no centralized source anymore. 689 00:58:06.760 --> 00:58:10.639 It's all individual people. And I think if really sensational cases are happening, 690 00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:16.159 they do not always get publicity. I suppose Stephenville, Texas was a 691 00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:22.280 pretty decent case though, And that's not too long ago. Yeah, yeah, 692 00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:28.719 I see your point exactly. And over the years thinking about you know, 693 00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:30.280 you being in this field, and I know what happens with me. 694 00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:37.079 Are there cases along those lines, cases that you felt were great cases that 695 00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:42.239 didn't get the attention you thought they should or are being launched to obscurity. 696 00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:45.639 When you think about great cases, what are some of them that you think 697 00:58:45.679 --> 00:58:50.880 about? You see, here's the issue here. A long time ago, 698 00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:53.519 and this was when I was working with Jim Osley, we reached the point 699 00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:59.400 in research saying, you know, there's enough cases out there unless something really 700 00:58:59.559 --> 00:59:04.000 changes. We have enough information. Let's figure out what it means. How 701 00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:09.159 many cases do we need to solve this? How many identical cases or with 702 00:59:09.440 --> 00:59:14.679 minor details do we need? I mean there are key cases like Rendelsham, 703 00:59:15.280 --> 00:59:20.320 It's gotten a lot of publicity. We ought to understand that. We should 704 00:59:20.400 --> 00:59:22.719 understand that further. I'd still like to see what the final answer is in 705 00:59:22.840 --> 00:59:28.920 Roswell, but any of the key cases over the years, Stephenville, Texas, 706 00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:34.519 O'Hare Airport, Chicago. We have a few key cases, and we 707 00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:38.760 have loads of other cases, multiple witness cases, we have Sicaro, New 708 00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:47.079 Mexico. These are sightings that probably give us enough information. But having ten 709 00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:52.559 thousand more cases, will that give us more information? Or just give us 710 00:59:52.559 --> 01:00:00.039 ten thousand more cases? Right? And I think that's what becomes difficult is 711 01:00:00.280 --> 01:00:06.800 that one I know Chris O'Brien is into this this kind of idea, is 712 01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:10.480 that as many cases as we get in the more cases that we get, 713 01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:20.119 it doesn't seem like we do get any more answers. And that's the problem 714 01:00:20.239 --> 01:00:22.519 too. I think a lot of the research that we're seeing nowadays in terms 715 01:00:22.519 --> 01:00:25.719 of UFOs, and that's the way it's been for a long time, is 716 01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:30.519 collecting sightings and maybe there's some basic investigation to say, well, is this 717 01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:35.000 conventional or not? And if it doesn't seem to be conventional, it goes 718 01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:38.480 into this box. If it seems like we could go one way or the 719 01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:42.920 other, it goes in this box. Okay, now what do we do 720 01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:46.519 with it? What do we do with this information? Now? One way 721 01:00:47.639 --> 01:00:52.880 is to avoid the issue and just assume the government knows. Let's have disclosure, 722 01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:54.679 the government has the answers. We don't have to figure it out. 723 01:00:55.039 --> 01:00:59.559 Let's just collect sightings and make a lot of noise, and eventually the government 724 01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:02.079 will best to tell us. This is the US government or any government, 725 01:01:02.119 --> 01:01:07.480 depending on what country you're in, the governments will tell us ET's here or 726 01:01:07.519 --> 01:01:16.840 whatever. The answer is so we can basically give up our consideration of investigations 727 01:01:17.719 --> 01:01:21.719 and let them do it, pass it off, pawn it off to somebody 728 01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:24.480 else. They'll figure it out or maybe they know already. And if we 729 01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:28.920 just say the right thing, we say it nicely, we send a petition 730 01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:31.719 with ten million people, which will never happen. They'll let us know the 731 01:01:31.800 --> 01:01:37.679 truth. Let's ask President Obama. Look, he had John Podesta working for 732 01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:40.760 him. He believes in UFOs. He heads up the Hillary Clinton campaign that's 733 01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:45.639 going to do something. Oh yeah, he's been around since the nineties. 734 01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:52.960 He was interested in UFOs. Then what has that done for us? Yeah, 735 01:01:54.280 --> 01:02:02.199 so then it kind of makes it incumbent upon us or some interested civilian 736 01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:10.599 organization to do some sort of analysis, And that really hasn't happened. It's 737 01:02:10.719 --> 01:02:16.199 just individual theorizing. It's either seed everything to the government and assume they know 738 01:02:16.280 --> 01:02:21.039 the answers and they'll tell us when they're good and ready we make a good 739 01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:25.199 case for it, or assume its spaceships. That's another thing. Let's assume 740 01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:31.039 its spaceships. Let's assume that. Okay, ET's coming here. Let's assume 741 01:02:31.119 --> 01:02:36.320 that. But how do we prove it do we prove it because we can 742 01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:39.719 look at Kepler two fifty two or something which appears to be an earthlike planet. 743 01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:45.400 Can we say, well, look, we now have evidence of a 744 01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:52.599 possible world orbiting another star system that maybe we'll have life as we know it. 745 01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:55.760 Therefore that proves ET is here. Well, no, it doesn't. 746 01:02:55.800 --> 01:03:01.599 Only proves that ET maybe somewhere, but that's still not telling us what's happening 747 01:03:01.639 --> 01:03:07.440 here and now. What it is doing is teaching us more about the universe 748 01:03:07.719 --> 01:03:13.000 and about what might be out there, but there's no direct connection. This 749 01:03:13.079 --> 01:03:17.760 is why I have a problem with SETI. So SETI is looking for signals 750 01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:23.280 from another planet and hoping those signals will give us a clue. Well, 751 01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:28.559 first of all, if ET is out there, are they using that method 752 01:03:29.679 --> 01:03:36.320 to transmit? Would they even want that information to go to another star system, 753 01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:40.360 another civilization? Would they have some way of blocking it off so it 754 01:03:40.440 --> 01:03:45.960 doesn't reach us. Maybe they use subspace radio like in Star Trek. I 755 01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:50.760 don't know whatever it is. If they're advanced, they make me using a 756 01:03:51.239 --> 01:03:54.559 system that we do not detect. We're looking at this in terms of our 757 01:03:54.639 --> 01:04:00.559 scientific achievement. Assuming if ET is out there, they'll send the message that 758 01:04:00.639 --> 01:04:04.159 we can reach. Then again, if you look at the speed of light 759 01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:09.440 and the limitations of transmission as we know it, the signals you pick up 760 01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:14.599 may be one hundred years old, one thousand years old, ten thousand years 761 01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:23.039 would even be well that civilization even exists anymore. If you respond to them, 762 01:04:23.599 --> 01:04:29.400 generations may pass before they hear your response, assuming they could even pick 763 01:04:29.480 --> 01:04:33.199 up the signal. I think it's a waste of time. Yeah, yeah, 764 01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:38.239 I agree, I don't see out of all the things you can do 765 01:04:38.360 --> 01:04:41.719 out there. And what's interesting is when you look at you know, at 766 01:04:41.800 --> 01:04:47.280 the beginning, when they were considering even rolling this project out way back in 767 01:04:47.519 --> 01:04:51.800 like the sixties, I think it was they debated and a lot of people 768 01:04:51.840 --> 01:04:56.960 didn't think it was worse it back then either with these same concerns, But 769 01:04:58.559 --> 01:05:00.480 here they are, and I think think you also bring up a lot of 770 01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:09.960 points, a lot of I think aspects of the research of UFOs, or 771 01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:15.320 at least you know, the investigation of them, that frustrate a lot of 772 01:05:15.400 --> 01:05:18.480 people that I feel a lot of people just need to come to terms with, 773 01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:25.239 which is we can really prove nothing. Perhaps the only thing we can 774 01:05:25.320 --> 01:05:30.599 prove is that people, even police officers, even the military, are seeing 775 01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:38.000 things occasionally that they can't identify. And unfortunately, that's about as far as 776 01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:45.800 we can go. I think at this point we cannot solve this mystery until 777 01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:51.639 or unless somebody brings a smoking gun, whatever that is. And unfortunately, 778 01:05:53.480 --> 01:06:00.519 the desperation of finding that smoking gun causes problems. We get so desperate that 779 01:06:00.599 --> 01:06:04.960 we have something like the Roswell slides. We're something that was obviously a slide 780 01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:13.519 of a mummy, a mummified child is suddenly morphed into a possible alien. 781 01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:19.119 I mean, it's absurd, that's desperation. Those who maybe promoted it may 782 01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:25.639 have been looking for fame and fortune, but those who supposedly knew better, 783 01:06:26.199 --> 01:06:30.960 who fell for it, they were desperate. So we have one problem, 784 01:06:30.039 --> 01:06:34.840 the desperate search for evidence to prove something. And right now I don't know 785 01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:40.039 where it's going to go because I don't think we know much more about UFOs 786 01:06:40.400 --> 01:06:43.679 now than we did in the nineteen fifties. The basic theory is still the 787 01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:45.639 same. Its et. Maybe it's not from Mars, it's okay, from 788 01:06:45.800 --> 01:06:53.440 Zeta reticuli, same basic theory. There are few people around the edges like 789 01:06:53.599 --> 01:06:57.960 us, Chris O'Brien and certainly I know you fall into this category, and 790 01:06:58.079 --> 01:07:03.960 Micah Hanks and others who look at UFOs as part of an overall mystery or 791 01:07:04.159 --> 01:07:10.039 collection of mysteries that may involve a lot more than just being visited by et. 792 01:07:13.519 --> 01:07:17.880 I think that what happens with people too, and why it's important to 793 01:07:17.960 --> 01:07:24.440 come to terms is, you know, people spend their life looking for answers, 794 01:07:25.119 --> 01:07:29.039 and they come to the realization that, wow, I've been working on 795 01:07:29.239 --> 01:07:34.559 this for decades, I only have a few decades or less to be on 796 01:07:34.719 --> 01:07:40.320 this planet. That before I pass away, what if I don't have any 797 01:07:40.400 --> 01:07:44.760 more answers? And I spent my whole life without those answers. And I've 798 01:07:44.840 --> 01:07:48.320 talked to a lot of the very much older, the people who maybe only 799 01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:54.480 have years left researchers, and you know what, that's just something that they 800 01:07:54.639 --> 01:07:58.440 have, for the most part, come to terms with, and I think 801 01:07:58.599 --> 01:08:01.039 that they may not have anti before they pass, just like many of their 802 01:08:01.079 --> 01:08:04.639 friends before them, and many of our friends who have passed in the last 803 01:08:04.679 --> 01:08:13.400 few years who were in this field, and coming to terms, then you're 804 01:08:13.480 --> 01:08:20.640 not as desperate. And because you're right that desperation leads people to mistakes. 805 01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:27.840 Well, what happens here is you get so desperate as time passes, you 806 01:08:27.960 --> 01:08:35.920 get very, very desperate for things to happen, for answers, and suddenly 807 01:08:36.039 --> 01:08:46.640 you're skeptical factor, your ability to discern fact from fiction fails you because you're 808 01:08:46.720 --> 01:08:50.880 desperate. Yeah, blinders on your eyes. Oh this is the answer, 809 01:08:51.359 --> 01:08:54.439 it's going to be realized. Well, you know what, I've been here 810 01:08:54.439 --> 01:08:58.439 a long time, and so the number of years left unless we discover a 811 01:08:58.479 --> 01:09:01.880 way to live forever, the number of years left is far less. I'm 812 01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:10.560 paraphrasing Captain Picard in one of the Star Trek movies. The number of years 813 01:09:10.600 --> 01:09:13.279 that have passed is far more in the number of years that are left to 814 01:09:13.359 --> 01:09:16.199 live. And I don't see us ever getting an answer. I like to 815 01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:20.800 I like to think, you know, I spent most of my life chasing 816 01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:25.000 after this stuff. I would love to see an answer, but I'm not 817 01:09:25.079 --> 01:09:29.079 going to make one up. I'm going to let events happen as they are. 818 01:09:29.199 --> 01:09:33.079 I would hope that whatever force is responsible would tell us, But it 819 01:09:33.199 --> 01:09:39.920 maybe that it's the search that's all that we're meant to search to discover more 820 01:09:39.960 --> 01:09:45.800 about our universe, and that is the mystery, not to have an immediate 821 01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:50.800 solution that's et or something. Yeah, yep, I agree with you. 822 01:09:51.079 --> 01:09:56.039 And you know then, you know what comes to mind is when you talk 823 01:09:56.079 --> 01:10:00.079 about discernment and the loss of discernment, you have these people who are you 824 01:10:00.159 --> 01:10:03.920 know, luminaries, not in just ufology, but people like you know, 825 01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:08.279 dare I say, and I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna go there like 826 01:10:08.439 --> 01:10:13.119 Paul Hellier, who I've met and is a great person. I really like 827 01:10:13.239 --> 01:10:17.880 Paul Hellier. But you know, he's going out saying that a lot of 828 01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:23.439 things he's heard anecdotally are real. A lot of stuff he's read on the 829 01:10:23.560 --> 01:10:30.079 internet are real. And it's unfortunate because he has because he was a defense 830 01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:32.520 minister in Canada, people think, oh my gosh, he's got some insight, 831 01:10:33.159 --> 01:10:38.880 this all must be real, when he's got no more information on all 832 01:10:38.920 --> 01:10:44.199 of this than the listeners or you and I do. He's got less than 833 01:10:44.279 --> 01:10:46.000 you and I do, actually, because I know he hasn't been in this 834 01:10:46.079 --> 01:10:53.079 as long as you and I have been, and there's others. Boyd Bushman 835 01:10:53.359 --> 01:10:57.520 I think fits in that category. And I always wonder, you know, 836 01:10:57.600 --> 01:11:00.640 I hope I don't get there to where I just don't care and I start 837 01:11:00.359 --> 01:11:05.439 saying all this stuff that I think, you know, And is this what 838 01:11:05.640 --> 01:11:10.239 happens to us when we get older. I don't know where we lose our 839 01:11:10.279 --> 01:11:16.119 discernment and just start kind of creating this alternate reality that we profess it's the 840 01:11:16.239 --> 01:11:20.720 truth. It might just be desperation. Yeah, you know what, I 841 01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:24.760 don't have too many years left, and Paul Hellier is in his eighties. 842 01:11:26.119 --> 01:11:29.800 I've got to have an answer. Maybe this is the answer. I hope 843 01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:34.319 I'll become that desperate if I survive for the eighties. Yeah, I hear 844 01:11:34.359 --> 01:11:40.680 your brother. Well, peric cast is still going, it's still going strong. 845 01:11:40.760 --> 01:11:44.560 When did you start doing the para cast? We started in February two 846 01:11:44.560 --> 01:11:49.239 thousand and six. In fact, our first guests were Jim Osley and Brad 847 01:11:49.279 --> 01:11:53.880 Steiger. Oh cool, two thousand and six. So we're doing it for 848 01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:58.920 about nine and a half years. So coming February we'll celebrate ten years of 849 01:11:59.039 --> 01:12:03.199 doing this and maybe we'll get it right. Ah, And there are no 850 01:12:03.359 --> 01:12:06.720 plans in the future of it going away, right, you're planning on moving 851 01:12:06.800 --> 01:12:13.000 forward. Well, here's the thing. If I disappeared tomorrow. I guess 852 01:12:13.119 --> 01:12:15.640 Chris would take over the show. I mean there's not really a succession plan. 853 01:12:16.199 --> 01:12:18.960 Yeah, but for as long as I can keep going, I'll keep 854 01:12:19.039 --> 01:12:23.760 going. When people decide they don't want me anymore, well I'll take the 855 01:12:23.880 --> 01:12:26.720 hint and I'll retire. I mean I should have been retired by now, 856 01:12:26.840 --> 01:12:30.000 but you know, nobody can afford to retire anymore. Uh huh. And 857 01:12:30.079 --> 01:12:33.319 I guess before we're done, one more interesting fact about you is that this 858 01:12:33.520 --> 01:12:38.840 isn't the only thing you do as UFOs. You actually also are involved in 859 01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:47.760 technology, right, reviewing and writing about the latest gadgets and stuff. I 860 01:12:47.960 --> 01:12:53.159 started that in the early nineties. Now, it's not the first time I 861 01:12:53.199 --> 01:12:56.720 wrote. I wrote an edited magazines throughout much of my life. But I 862 01:12:56.840 --> 01:13:00.840 had the opportunity to become a writer for We're a magazine called Macworld back in 863 01:13:00.920 --> 01:13:09.119 the early nineties covering stuff from Apple Incorporated. And over time I wrote thirty 864 01:13:09.199 --> 01:13:14.479 books on computers, personal technology, that sort of thing I wrote for a 865 01:13:14.520 --> 01:13:17.800 lot of magazines. We have a radio show now, which we started back 866 01:13:17.840 --> 01:13:21.439 in two thousand and two, as a matter of fact, called The technight 867 01:13:21.479 --> 01:13:29.399 Ow Live, and it is about personal technology, computers, and we do 868 01:13:29.520 --> 01:13:32.680 it kind of like I Meet the Press kind of thing where I bring on 869 01:13:32.760 --> 01:13:36.760 a guest and I interview them and I talk to them, and we interview 870 01:13:38.439 --> 01:13:45.359 fellow journalists. We interview people who are representative of tech companies. We've had 871 01:13:45.399 --> 01:13:49.279 Google on there, We've had Apple, Microsoft, and we talk about products, 872 01:13:49.319 --> 01:13:54.199 and we talk about gadgets and we speculate. So, for example, 873 01:13:54.640 --> 01:13:57.000 on September ninth, which is my birthday, as a matter of fact, 874 01:13:57.039 --> 01:14:01.199 presence welcome, we will be talking about Apples and media event in San Francisco 875 01:14:01.239 --> 01:14:05.000 where they are expected to roll out new iPhones as such. So that's the 876 01:14:05.079 --> 01:14:09.159 kind of thing we do. That's the other world. I also have something 877 01:14:09.239 --> 01:14:13.600 called technightoul dot com, which is a tech blog I've been doing since nineteen 878 01:14:13.680 --> 01:14:19.680 ninety nine. So I live into world or maybe more, but I'm too 879 01:14:19.760 --> 01:14:25.279 crazy to realize it, right, But two major ones that you're spending all 880 01:14:25.359 --> 01:14:28.760 your time in, which is really really interesting stuff. Of course, I'm 881 01:14:28.800 --> 01:14:32.880 sure a lot of listeners are, but I'm definitely a gadget guy, and 882 01:14:33.640 --> 01:14:40.399 I just realized too at my life without even purposefully kind of going there, 883 01:14:40.680 --> 01:14:44.079 I guess out of convenience. I've become totally Mac. My house is like 884 01:14:44.199 --> 01:14:48.079 totally Mac. I've got the iPhone, the MacBook, the iPad, and 885 01:14:48.279 --> 01:14:54.319 I'm definitely someone well people know from social media and everything. I'm someone who 886 01:14:54.439 --> 01:15:00.680 lives online. So fun stuff. So thanks so much for being on the 887 01:15:00.760 --> 01:15:04.000 show. Do you want to do? You plug some of your stuff, 888 01:15:04.039 --> 01:15:08.960 but you can go ahead and plug away. You've got the para cast. 889 01:15:09.119 --> 01:15:15.000 Maybe give people the URL and the URL to the forum as well. Well. 890 01:15:15.039 --> 01:15:15.960 The best thing to do if you want to find out about the power 891 01:15:16.039 --> 01:15:23.399 Cast is go to the power Cast. That's thgpowercast dot com and that's our 892 01:15:23.479 --> 01:15:27.359 portal where you can check out everything. And you'll see a nav bar at 893 01:15:27.399 --> 01:15:30.359 the top of the screen where you can just go to the technology so a 894 01:15:30.479 --> 01:15:32.399 show, you can go to the science fiction novel my son and I wrote. 895 01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:36.720 You can see everything from there. There's a direct link to the forums. 896 01:15:38.159 --> 01:15:42.680 There's also a direct link to our premium service, which is the Powercast 897 01:15:42.760 --> 01:15:45.399 Plus, and that allows you to get the ad free version of the show 898 01:15:45.479 --> 01:15:50.319 and after the power Cast and extra features. That's all at thepowercast dot com. 899 01:15:50.720 --> 01:15:54.439 That makes it simple. They don't have to remember too much right, 900 01:15:55.079 --> 01:15:57.359 all right, well, thank you so much for being on the show. 901 01:15:58.079 --> 01:16:01.560 We'll definitely do this again in the future. It's always a lot of fun 902 01:16:01.640 --> 01:16:06.960 to talk to you, and thank you very much. You're very welcome. 903 01:16:09.439 --> 01:16:12.760 Thank you so much to Jeanne for coming on the show. It was a 904 01:16:12.920 --> 01:16:17.319 lot of fun to talk to him. He's a really cool dude and I 905 01:16:17.439 --> 01:16:20.920 think has some really great insight. I mean, he's someone who's been in 906 01:16:21.039 --> 01:16:26.840 this for a really long time, as you can tell by listening to him. 907 01:16:27.399 --> 01:16:31.079 And what's cool is he someone that has kind of come to peace with 908 01:16:31.239 --> 01:16:35.359 the field, so to say. And I think once you do, you 909 01:16:35.520 --> 01:16:40.479 know, aren't able to stand back and not only look at yourself and your 910 01:16:40.640 --> 01:16:45.239 career in this field and get some perspective. Then it does help you give 911 01:16:45.439 --> 01:16:49.880 perspective when you're looking at other people's work, and maybe even does help you 912 01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:55.800 kind of figure out where people might be going wrong when it comes to like 913 01:16:55.920 --> 01:17:01.279 the roswell slides or other things, just because you can sympathize with their want 914 01:17:01.680 --> 01:17:10.720 for answers, but at the same time you can see the dangers of kind 915 01:17:10.760 --> 01:17:16.520 of putting on blinders due to desperation for those answers. So you know, 916 01:17:16.640 --> 01:17:19.079 I think it's really interesting. I think, you know, some of the 917 01:17:19.159 --> 01:17:24.520 things he said can serve as a warning to some of you who are younger 918 01:17:24.720 --> 01:17:29.439 or who have not been in this field for as long to just be careful 919 01:17:29.560 --> 01:17:32.640 and you know, come to a piece that we don't know much right now. 920 01:17:32.840 --> 01:17:35.840 We haven't learned much. I think, you know, the luminaries in 921 01:17:35.920 --> 01:17:41.600 this field say this over and over again. We've learned very little, but 922 01:17:42.199 --> 01:17:46.960 we know there's a phenomena. I'm happy with journaling this phenomena, watching it. 923 01:17:47.199 --> 01:17:51.399 I think it's interesting. I think the way people react and what people 924 01:17:51.560 --> 01:17:56.560 have to say about it is interesting. But it's a phenomena that's been around 925 01:17:56.800 --> 01:18:00.359 for a long time. It's probably a phenomena that will be around for a 926 01:18:00.520 --> 01:18:05.600 long time. And regardless of who's visiting, when, what, or where 927 01:18:06.079 --> 01:18:10.760 or if. You know, we still have our lives to leave, and 928 01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:16.039 we still have a world that we need to take care of that we're not 929 01:18:16.159 --> 01:18:21.960 doing such a good job with these days. Anyhow. Thank you again so 930 01:18:23.079 --> 01:18:26.880 much to Jane. Check him out on the paracast with our good friend Chris 931 01:18:26.960 --> 01:18:31.319 O'Brien who we've had on a few times. And you know, Jean brought 932 01:18:31.399 --> 01:18:35.680 up Micah Hanks, And I want to thank Micah Hanks who did have me 933 01:18:35.840 --> 01:18:41.399 on his show, The Gralian Report not too long ago. It's on the 934 01:18:41.840 --> 01:18:45.399 kg R A network. And who else did you bring up? He brought 935 01:18:45.479 --> 01:18:48.199 up another one of our buddies, what Kirk Collins. We had him on 936 01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:54.279 not too long ago. So check out the Jim Moseley website and go listen 937 01:18:54.359 --> 01:18:59.279 to the Jim Moseley interview that I did many years ago, because unfortunately Jim 938 01:18:59.359 --> 01:19:04.039 Moseley has asked away and he's such an interesting fella, really funny, interesting 939 01:19:04.159 --> 01:19:10.319 guy. But I also want to thank Micah Hank's brother, Caleb Hanks, 940 01:19:10.399 --> 01:19:15.000 because that's the guy who does the music for the opening and close of this 941 01:19:15.199 --> 01:19:20.119 show. Caleb Hanks has a site called the Clerk Chronicles, and you can 942 01:19:20.199 --> 01:19:27.399 find a link to that site at the open Minds UFO radio show page at 943 01:19:27.479 --> 01:19:33.399 openminds dot tv. Micah and Caleb are actually both very talent musically talented. 944 01:19:34.239 --> 01:19:40.279 They play music and stuff like that. Really cool, really interesting and unique 945 01:19:40.600 --> 01:19:45.319 brothers there. They're also hilarious. They are super funny. If you ever 946 01:19:45.359 --> 01:19:47.000 get a hang out with them at a conference or something, there they're really 947 01:19:47.079 --> 01:19:55.159 really funny guys, total total goofballs and I love it. But thank you 948 01:19:55.279 --> 01:19:58.880 to those guys, and also thank you to you the listeners. Be sure 949 01:19:58.920 --> 01:20:02.479 to check out open mind TV. Also check out Ufocongress dot com because we 950 01:20:02.640 --> 01:20:09.239 have a lot of these speakers listed for the conference and it's really exciting. 951 01:20:09.439 --> 01:20:15.279 So we have like several PhDs. We have David Jacobs talking about alien abduction 952 01:20:15.439 --> 01:20:16.960 on one hand, and then we have a guy who is a professor in 953 01:20:17.079 --> 01:20:21.039 journalism, Joe Lewells, who's written a book and he's going to talk about 954 01:20:21.079 --> 01:20:27.920 alien abduction from a totally different point of view. We've got oh, this 955 01:20:28.119 --> 01:20:31.279 is a new thing that we posted. We have one of the former congress 956 01:20:31.359 --> 01:20:36.359 people that was at the citizens hearing for disclosure. So this is Congressman Cook. 957 01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:42.359 He used to be in the House of Representatives representing Utah, one of 958 01:20:42.399 --> 01:20:45.079 the districts in Utah, and he's going to be talking about how he went 959 01:20:45.159 --> 01:20:48.039 to the citizen hearing as a skeptic. You know, they paid these guys 960 01:20:48.159 --> 01:20:51.560 to go listen to these UFO people. I can only imagine they're thinking, 961 01:20:51.600 --> 01:20:55.479 oh, great, well, they're paying me to sit here and listen to 962 01:20:55.600 --> 01:20:58.439 these bunch of goofballs, but he said, you know, a lot of 963 01:20:58.479 --> 01:21:00.960 them were goofballs that he listened to. However, he felt that a lot 964 01:21:01.000 --> 01:21:05.399 of people he did listen to at the hearings were very credible and had some 965 01:21:05.560 --> 01:21:11.800 incredible things to say and completely changed his mind about the whole UFO phenomena. 966 01:21:12.119 --> 01:21:15.600 So he's going to be discussing that at the UFO Congress and probably be involved 967 01:21:15.640 --> 01:21:20.760 with a panel as well to discuss UFOs and the mainstream and stuff like that. 968 01:21:20.880 --> 01:21:24.439 So this is gonna be a lot of fun. We're gonna have Nick 969 01:21:24.520 --> 01:21:30.199 Redfern, We're gonna have a lot of cool people. You know who else 970 01:21:30.239 --> 01:21:33.800 did I put up? John Greenwald? Recently? I just mentioned we're gonna 971 01:21:33.800 --> 01:21:39.800 have Chris Rutkowski from Canada. We're gonna have a lot of cool stuff. 972 01:21:39.800 --> 01:21:43.840 So go to Ufocongress dot com and you'll be able to see the speakers again. 973 01:21:44.319 --> 01:21:49.039 Register soon. We're getting more registrations earlier than we've ever gotten before. 974 01:21:49.640 --> 01:21:54.479 Every year the conference gets bigger and bigger and we're out of room. I 975 01:21:54.560 --> 01:21:58.399 think this year we're gonna really completely sell out. In fact, we did 976 01:21:58.560 --> 01:22:00.880 last year. We had to shove people in and we had to get seats, 977 01:22:00.920 --> 01:22:04.720 not that it was uncomfortable. We did get seats for everybody. There 978 01:22:04.840 --> 01:22:09.239 was a whole row of people standing in the back. In fact, if 979 01:22:09.239 --> 01:22:13.039 you go to our website to UFO Congress and scroll through the pictures in the 980 01:22:13.119 --> 01:22:16.720 front, you'll see a couple of years ago when David Hatcher Childress was speaking 981 01:22:17.039 --> 01:22:19.800 and you see this packed room with people in the back. So it was 982 01:22:19.880 --> 01:22:28.319 even more full than that last year when we had George Knapp and Bob Lazarn 983 01:22:28.399 --> 01:22:30.239 some of the other speakers that we had. So we've got a lot of 984 01:22:30.279 --> 01:22:33.479 people there. It's a lot of fun. It's so fun to see. 985 01:22:33.520 --> 01:22:38.039 You also, go register for the Congress as soon as you can. That's 986 01:22:38.079 --> 01:22:44.880 February seventeenth to the twenty first at ufocongress dot com. A lot of cool 987 01:22:44.920 --> 01:22:49.960 stuff going on. Also in a few weeks there will be the Travis Walton 988 01:22:50.039 --> 01:22:54.079 event, so you can go to our events page and see more about that. 989 01:22:55.000 --> 01:22:57.640 But our events pages where you'll see a lot of stuff in the UFO 990 01:22:57.720 --> 01:23:00.319 Congress page. Actually there's an ad right on the front page of Openminds dot 991 01:23:00.399 --> 01:23:04.800 tv to see that. We'll also have a new UFO Report out this week. 992 01:23:04.880 --> 01:23:10.560 We had one last week where we have an interview with one of the 993 01:23:10.680 --> 01:23:16.039 researchers of the Puerto Rico video, Richard Hoffman, who also is a state 994 01:23:16.119 --> 01:23:21.600 director for MOFON and I think he's like runs the Star team. He's a 995 01:23:21.760 --> 01:23:27.079 big wig at MOFON. But he's also part of the investigative group, you 996 01:23:27.119 --> 01:23:30.000 know last week we had. Last time we have Morgan and Robert Powell from 997 01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:33.760 that group talking, so this is a different person. So we've got that 998 01:23:33.920 --> 01:23:38.279 up. And then this week we're gonna have a lot of triangle UFO stuff, 999 01:23:38.439 --> 01:23:41.199 like Martin and I were talking about at the beginning of the show, 1000 01:23:41.760 --> 01:23:45.199 and so we're gonna have some of the pictures and videos up on our YouTube 1001 01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:49.520 UFO report on Friday. So lots of good stuff to check out at Openminds 1002 01:23:49.560 --> 01:23:55.199 dot tv. Otherwise, we do have shows scheduled for the next few weeks. 1003 01:23:55.239 --> 01:23:58.920 We've got him scheduled out, so no worries. We will have a 1004 01:23:59.159 --> 01:24:03.319 show. So we will talk to you all soon. You have a wonderful 1005 01:24:03.359 --> 01:25:01.119 week. Thank you so much for listening. Audio Smooth Tuckles your motionless sound. 1006 01:25:01.399 --> 01:25:03.079 The glass tis suffering