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You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio
Network, the best in paranormal talk radio

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in the UK and around the world. Paranormal Dimensions is fortnightly on Mondays on

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the Paranormal UK Radio Network. Nothing
is to be released to the public.

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Nothing you understand, gentlemen, Nothing
good detail. This is Sir Patrick Moore

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and you're listening to the Paranormal You
okay? Medium network? Do you okay?

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It's biggest paranormal radium network and this
is Paranormal Dimensions with David g Hello

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and welcome to the show. I'm
David Young. Well, after the last

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show which she was very controversial with
James Francis Welsh, I hope we've all

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had to listen to that everything that
James has come up with. Now on

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this particular show, we've got another
witness of a craft and he saw the

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craft of a very strange angle which
is very unusual, as you will hear.

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My guest name is Colin Saunders.
He has a book out describing this

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encounter. I believe you'll find his
story very intriguing. So here we go

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with Collin Saunders College. Welcome to
the show. Hello David, thank you

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for inviting me, it's a great
pleasure to welcome you through paranormal dimensions,

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the biggest and the best show or
the year, so I'm told. Anyway,

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I know you've been doing a few
of these other podcasts, a few

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podcasts in already, and you've got
a few more line up, so I

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hope you don't get fed up.
You're sort of telling your story, which

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which is quite a very intrigue,
intriguing story actually about the triangle shape craft.

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Um oh yeah, let's let's just
go back a little bit into your

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new into your past if you like. Were you interested in UFOs as a

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child, et cetera. No,
funnily enough, I wasn't. I got

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no interest in UFOs at all,
just a passing interest in Star Wars,

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you know. I went to see
that when it first came out back in

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the age. But I was never
really into UFOs in any big where.

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I was never any member of groups
or or went to any conferences of anything

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along those lines. I didn't even
buy the UFO magazines. Now, there

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was no interest at taught before the
before the sighting, but obviously that's what

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spart. My interest was the actual
encounter or that time, So that's That's

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actually an important factor, isn't it, Because it's when you actually make the

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same thing happened to me really as
I thought saw a lot of UFO back

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in sixty seven, and it just
sort of strikes you. They're real,

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they exist. You know that That
must have been the way it happened with

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you as well. Yeah, it
was that absolutely life changing. I mean

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that those few seconds that we were
there underneath the thing, it was incredible.

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I mean I'd spent ten a few
years working in the aircraft industry,

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so I knew Australia away it wasn't
one of ours, and yeah, because

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of my past history, it was
just just blew me away. Yeah,

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I mean yours was triangular. I
mean the one I saw but back in

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sixty seven was actually an oable orange
object. So it's quite different from one

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you saw. So would it be
or if it would be a different alien

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race or yeah, we don't really
know, do We can only guess at

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these things. But I remember on
the night when when this thing occurred,

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when it decluded in front of us, I don't know what I was expecting,

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but I certainly wasn't expecting a triangle. I mean i'd heard about UFOs,

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but like everybody else, I assume
they were I can flying sourcer shaped

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like a Mexican hat shape. Yeah, I'd never heard of triangular shape UFOs

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because I wasn't involved in the UFO
world, so you know, it was

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quite quite shocking all around. Yeah, obviously they are saying all over the

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world, like you say, but
of course I know your book is called

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Triangular UFOs of the United Kingdom?
Does that concentrate just on the United Kingdom?

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It does? Yes, Yes,
there's only one report in there from

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America, which is quite an important
one. But basically because i'd seen a

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triangle, I started researching triangles.
So twenty four years ago, the thirty

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first of March nineteen ninety nine is
when the encounter happened. So I started

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researching triangles after that and getting in
touch with people who had seen triangles,

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and people had seen triangles were getting
in touch with me, and I started.

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Initially, because I've been a draftsman
all of my life, I initially

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started drawing the craft, but then
I started making models of the craft as

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well. When it comes to writing
the book, I really wanted to write

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about my own experience, but there
wasn't enough information there to producible to fill

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the book, so I had to
start putting in other people's sights as well.

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Changed the book around a little bit. I decided just to concentrate on

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triangles, partly because that's what I'd
seen, but also information I collected along

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the way was really about triangles.
I wasn't really looking into sources and cigars.

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If they cropped upon the Internet,
I'd have a quick quick look,

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But I wasn't really getting dragged down
the rabbit hole. Was looking at all

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of the different types of craft.
I just wanted to know really who was

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who was actually piloting our craft,
whether it was the Grays or the Nordics,

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Reptilians or whatever. I still don't
know this time, but I do

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do not believe it was one of
our one of our military secret military craft

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for instance, as well. I
was going to ask you that actually,

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because I've been over the years,
we've seen all sorts of different shapes in

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the skies. As I say,
mine was actually just an overall object.

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I mean, whether it was overall, I don't know. Might have been

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circled for but a funny angle I
saw it. But obviously the triangular thing.

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Did you find that other people's sightings
were very similar to your own?

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Very similar? Yes? Shall i'll
go through the sighting? Yes? Absolutely,

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yes, please, yeah, then
we can talk about some of the

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things that occurred during the sighting and
the way this took me since then.

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So basically, on the thirty first
of March nineteen ninety nine, we'd been

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out for a bar meal, two
car loads of us. I was in

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my wife's card, my wife was
driving. We got my mother in law

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with me because it was her birthday
that day she was seventy two, and

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I got my daughter as well as
she was twelve years old. So the

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Fords were in the wires car,
the Ford Fiesta, and then we had

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a second vehicle who ranged Rover,
with my brother in law driving that one

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with his French partner and her grandparents
who are ablely grandparents would come over from

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France for for a week to stop
with them. So we all went out

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to a little village called Pilton in
the Warwickshire countryside, near to Monks Kirby,

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pretty much in the middle of nowhere, to be honest, it's a

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tiny little village and in fact the
pub's gone now like a lot of English

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pubs unfortunately have gone by the way. But I remember as we left the

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pub, we got into my wife's
car and started to pull away, and

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I looked out the rear view of
me and I could see my brother in

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law struggling to get the old French
lady into the range Rover because she was

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quite old and that was mobile,
and she could because they're quite high up.

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I know the problem. So I
assumed that they would catch us up

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very shortly, be putting a lot
of lights to drive his range rover quite

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fast, and he's done a lot
of off road and I didn't expect him

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to hang about when he finally got
loaded. But we set off in front

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and we drove through the country lanes
until we came up to the Fosse Way,

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which is an old Roman road,
and the Fosse Way leads up to

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high Cross where it joins the Watling
Street, which is another Roman way.

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Because I don't I do know,
some people talk a lot about lay lines

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and they always say that are built
on lay line, So there might be

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some information there somebody might be interested
in. I don't know. But basically,

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as we came up towards the junction
from the Fosse Way. Somebody said,

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we're turning onto the foss and my
daughter said, all, there's been

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talk of headless horsemen down here,
and we all laughed and joked and said,

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all keep our eyes open for him. Then, and soon as we

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turned off the country lane onto the
Foss Way, there were some lights hovering

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on by the side of the road
in front of us, exactly half a

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mile away, because I went back
next day and measured the distance. So

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we drove towards the lights and we're
talking all excitedly about what they could be.

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There are too many lights for an
airplane or a helicopter even, and

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too low really for any aircraft.
And they were really bright, I mean

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there was red and white all mixed
in together. And getting excited and talking

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about so we drove up to the
lights. Now I always say that the

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lights would be probably a hundred feet
away from us. Now I base that

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on Steve and my friend's seventy foot
now a boat around the aspe Canal.

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So when I say a hundred feet, I mean a hundred feet. I

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could have hit it with a cricket
board easily, But at this point there

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was no craft. It was still
just lights, so and they were lower

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as well. They were like full
maybe fifty feet seventy feet off the ground.

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It was that low. So there
were four big red lights at the

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back, and a little red light
off to one side, and some white

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mingled in, so I'm staring at
them. I stared at one of the

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big red lights on the back,
the fourth one one the craft was actually

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tilted at thirty degrees to the earth. It wasn't level with the earth while

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the lights were tilted. So there
were four big red lights at the back,

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tilted at thirty degrees to the earth, and I was staring at one

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of those lights, and you could
see like a criss cross effecting it.

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But I think that was an effect
from the light source that was coming out

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of it, like a Newton's law
of ring interference, rather than being a

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pattern that was etched on some glass
like a traffic light. It wasn't.

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It wasn't a physical sort of criss
cross effect. I could see it was

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coming from the light source itself,
which was pretty amazing to look at because

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at this point we could only see
the lights, so we've got no idea

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what's going on. We're just wondering
what these lights are. Now, as

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I'm staring at this light, all
of a sudden I see the sky it's

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starting to ripple around the lights,
and I think to myself, oh God,

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there's something there. It's not just
lights, there's something actually around them.

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And as soon as I had that
thought, it decloat. It was

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amazing. It was like Star Trek, you know, on Star Trek with

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it clingones Dcloat with the ship.
It was just like that right in front

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of our eyes. Now, it
was that low that if it had tilted

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from the middle, it would have
struck the ground. So the rear end,

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which stilted it thirty degrees to the
earth, that stayed where it was,

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and the nose floated up in the
air. And I say floated.

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It didn't just rise up in the
air like like a Harry had jumped jet.

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It flowed like a submarine in the
water. It's incredible to see.

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So as a note, the rear
end stay where it was, and the

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nose rose up in the air,
floated in the air, which then revealed

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the top surface of the craft to
us. Now, not many people get

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to see the top of a triangle. Most people see it from underneath.

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We were actually looking at the top
surface now the craft, and the surface

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looked to be alive. It looked
organic. It was incredible. And the

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surface that got it looked like liquid
mercury running up and down the surface of

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the craft. And the best way
to describe it is like a lake at

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night. It's got moonlight shining on
it, and it's got little ripples of

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waves and the moonlights catching some of
the ripples. That was the sort of

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effect that was on the surface.
But on top of that, there was

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these beams, silver beams that were
interlocking raised up off the surface. Now

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they weren't shimmering. They were solid, but the surface was moving like liquid.

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So it wasn't an effect of heatase
or electromagnetic effect. Because the silver

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beams on the surface were solid,
they were not They were not appearing to

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distort in any fashion, and it
was just like wow. Three thoughts came

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into my mind straight away. The
first one was my God, aliens exist,

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the second one abductions must take place, and the third one was that

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this explains all of the mysteries from
history. Now, at this point,

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my wife was very sensible who was
driving, decided to put the hazard flashes

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on and there was a gateway more
or less underneath where this triangle was hovering.

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So she decided to pull forward and
reversed into the gateway. Now the

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problem was as she pulled forward the
big hedge it blocked our view. We

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couldn't see it anymore, I thought
himself. And it's going to go.

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It's going to go. Now she
reversed into the gateway. We jumped out

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and sure enough it had gone.
And then we stood there and it was

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quiet. It was silent. You
could hear a pin drops like the Odds

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effect they call it. And we
stood there and in the distance there was

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this craft disappearing and it was huge. It's one of these football size craft

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and it got four big red lights
on the back, which I've never seen

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before until that night, on the
little triangle that was in front of us.

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So I said to the girl's look
there, it is over there,

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and it's chained size. It's massive
now instead of being a little craft.

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And they were, oh, no, I don't know if that's an aircraft

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or not. It looks like a
normal craft and going now it's not within

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four big red lights on the back. So I put that my first fitness

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report to a guy called Omar Fowler. I was saying that I thought the

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craft had chained size from a small
craft like a two man version, to

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a huge football pitch size craft.
But that was because I didn't know anything

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about UFOs. Once I started research, and I soon realized that the large

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one must have been what they call
a mothership, and I assumed, although

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we didn't see it, but I
assumed a smaller triangle went back to the

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mothership at the point where we can't
see it when we were behind the hedge.

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So that was the basic siting.
But there was a little bit more

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to it, and we'll come back
to that in a bit if you don't

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mind. So we checked the watch. It was nine fifty, but we

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don't know what time we left the
pub, to be honest, and we

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got back in the car all excited
talking about it and drove home. Now

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we took my mother in law home. My brother in law lived next door.

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He brought the house next door to
his mother, and we were surprised

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when we got home. He was
already there in the range rover and the

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00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,799
French people were out sitting inside the
house having a cup of tea and that

206
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,080
seemed very odd to us that they
managed to get pastors without seeing us in

207
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,559
the gateway with the hazard flash of
lights on because we were right next to

208
00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:43,519
the road, and also the fact
they never saw the craft either, so

209
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,840
that was a little bit of a
mystery. But there's always the possibility of

210
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:54,240
the actually drove past and didn't see
us. But I still can't figure out

211
00:15:54,279 --> 00:15:56,919
how they didn't see the crap because
I couldn't have been far beyond us if

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00:15:56,919 --> 00:16:00,159
that was the point. If that
was the case. So anyway, we

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00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,080
get back home now. During my
working career, I've always been a draftsman,

214
00:16:04,159 --> 00:16:07,519
so I've always drawn for a living, and I'm still drawing now at

215
00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:11,240
the age of sixty four. I'm
still a draftsman. So the first thing

216
00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:15,240
I did when I got back was
to draw it. I've also worked in

217
00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:18,440
the aircraft industry. I sort of
feelers should point that out as well.

218
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:19,799
This is why I knew it was
not one of ours. I've worked on

219
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,679
the airbus in Germany for a year, and i worked for sub Aerospace in

220
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:29,639
Sweden for a couple of years on
a civilian aircraft there. I've always been

221
00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:34,679
an electrical designed draftsman. But I've
also had a period working for Chevron Petroleum

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00:16:34,759 --> 00:16:38,279
in Aberdeen was based on shore,
but I did have a couple offshore trips.

223
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,519
Now the thing that drill into you
there, like when you go offshore,

224
00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:45,120
you've got to get all the information
that you need because when you get

225
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,879
back, if you've missed something,
you can't just hop onto the next helicopter

226
00:16:48,879 --> 00:16:52,960
and fly out to the platform again. It just doesn't work. You've got

227
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,960
to make sure you get it right, so you check everything time and time

228
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,679
again before you come back to base
in Aberdeen. So that sort of training

229
00:17:00,759 --> 00:17:03,839
was invaluable on the night, I'm
seeing the UFO, So the first thing

230
00:17:03,839 --> 00:17:06,960
I did when I got back home
that night was to draw it, to

231
00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:10,200
do all what I'd seen. And
my daughter she drew what she had seen

232
00:17:10,279 --> 00:17:12,880
as well. And now my wife, who had been driving, she saw

233
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,839
the lights, but because she was
being sensible and watching the way, she'd

234
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:22,640
never actually seen the craft materialize,
so she didn't see the craft at all.

235
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,839
She only saw the lights. And
then her mother in law she described

236
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:30,279
it as being triangular with girders.
She called them girders on the surface.

237
00:17:30,319 --> 00:17:33,880
I called them beams. The same
same sort of thing. So that's what

238
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,559
I did that night. I did
some sketches down the next day. I

239
00:17:37,599 --> 00:17:41,599
mean, I was just beside myself. I couldn't believe what we'd seen the

240
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,079
night before, and I expected everybody
to see it, expected to be on

241
00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,200
the news, you know. I
couldn't believe it with only people who've seen

242
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:52,680
it that night. So but we
were And it was April Fool's Day,

243
00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:56,480
wasn't it the next day? April
the first? And I'm trying to tell

244
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,920
the reaction again. Yeah, but
to be true, for most people went

245
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,920
with it. Not many people poo
pooped the idea. At this point as

246
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,480
well, I'm working. I've started
my own business. I'm working from home.

247
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:18,319
I'm doing embroidery. It was embroidery
design initially, but through the design

248
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,839
we started selling garments as well.
So I was still working from home.

249
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,039
So I've got three members of staff
working in my dining room. So we've

250
00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:29,240
got embroidery going on and design going
on. It's all pretty hectic. We're

251
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,160
getting to the point where we really
need to be moving out. Well,

252
00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:37,519
that gave me the ability to step
back from the business for a little bit,

253
00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:40,440
let the staff run it while I
went down the shed and started making

254
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,960
some models of the craft that I've
seen. I mean, initially I handrew

255
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,839
it, and then I drew it
in cold draw, and I printed out

256
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,799
some pictures of it and made little
paper models, and then I decided to

257
00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:56,319
make them. I wouldn't model,
so I got some down in some plywood

258
00:18:56,759 --> 00:19:03,079
and creating my first solid three D
model and put the drawings onto that.

259
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,839
Now, strangely enough, I had
a van that I used for the business,

260
00:19:08,599 --> 00:19:11,680
which was parked in the driveway.
It was broken into one night and

261
00:19:12,279 --> 00:19:17,759
the stereo was stolen an old set
player, which wasn't really worth anything.

262
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:22,400
Surprised me that somebody went to the
effort of stealing it. And I took

263
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,480
the van to my friend to get
it repaired, and he said it had

264
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,200
been broken into professionally. He was
quite amazed that somebody had gone to that

265
00:19:29,279 --> 00:19:34,319
trouble, just as steal a cassette
player. But I remember the last time

266
00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:37,759
I saw the model that I'd made, it was inside the van and I

267
00:19:37,759 --> 00:19:41,799
couldn't find it. It was gone. Whoever took the cassette player also took

268
00:19:41,799 --> 00:19:45,240
the model. Whether they were after
that model or not, I don't know,

269
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,880
you know, whether I'm just being
a bit paranoid, I don't know,

270
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,839
but the model was definitely stolen along
with the crappy old set player.

271
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,720
So all I decided to do then, obviously was building another one mark too.

272
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,240
So the same thing again. I
got some down in, I've got

273
00:20:03,279 --> 00:20:07,720
some plywood, and I printed off
some drawings on the computer. But this

274
00:20:07,759 --> 00:20:12,240
time I had brought some LEDs and
a battery pack and a switch and wired

275
00:20:12,279 --> 00:20:17,519
it all up, put three red
lights underneath and four lights at the back.

276
00:20:18,079 --> 00:20:22,359
I made myself a real smart little
model. And have to say,

277
00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:25,759
in the early days when I used
to take the model out of the griefcase

278
00:20:25,799 --> 00:20:27,200
and switch switch on or look at
it, he used to make me shake

279
00:20:29,319 --> 00:20:32,440
because, you know, going back
over the excitement of the evening, it

280
00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:38,480
was fantastic. So what happened then
was that the model was great, but

281
00:20:38,759 --> 00:20:42,720
it was flat. Surface was flat, and I really wanted to have the

282
00:20:42,759 --> 00:20:48,599
lines in relief. The girders were
raised up off the surface. Now a

283
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:53,359
guy called Omar Fowler we became great
friends. He used to specialize in triangular

284
00:20:53,559 --> 00:20:59,279
UFOs. He sent me some drawings. One of them was from Bewdium and

285
00:20:59,319 --> 00:21:02,640
it showed the undera of a triangle, and it's got the same lines in

286
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,880
relief, these beams, these good
is coming out turning through ninety degrees,

287
00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:10,240
and I thought, that's got to
be the same craft of that that I've

288
00:21:10,279 --> 00:21:14,599
seen, or at least the same
series of craft. So what I decided

289
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,720
to do was to make the bottom
of my model the same as the Belgium

290
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,319
sighting with the beams underneath, and
use my own sighting of the rear of

291
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,960
the craft and the top surface of
the craft to create the perfect model,

292
00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:36,400
the scale model of an actual et
UFO. So what happened then It was

293
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:37,880
great, but I was never under
percent happy with it because I haven't got

294
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,279
the beams raised up, and I
wasn't quite sure how I was going to

295
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,480
do that. And a friend of
mine came along, John Mills, and

296
00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:48,839
he brought himself a three D printer, and he says, I want to

297
00:21:48,839 --> 00:21:52,400
make a model of your UFO.
Oh, that's great. So he set

298
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,920
about it and to quite a few
prototypes, and then eventually he made this

299
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:03,119
little handout about an a five size
triangle with lights on it and the beams

300
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,799
raised up off the surface, and
it was brilliant he did a fantastic job.

301
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,920
I was really pleased. It didn't
cost anything, but it did take

302
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,319
him a lot of time, and
it was fairly expensive as well, I

303
00:22:15,319 --> 00:22:18,240
think, with all the messing around
getting it getting it to work. So

304
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,200
I came up with an idea,
but it was still good, but it

305
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,519
still wasn't perfect. I was still
struggling to get the perfect model because of

306
00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:32,200
the liquid surface and the different colors
of the beam compared to the surface and

307
00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:38,000
the central white core. So what
I decided was with John was to sell

308
00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:41,160
some of his models. Now done
all the hard work in producing the files,

309
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,799
he could easily print them off and
assemble them. So I struck a

310
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,279
deal with him. I said,
if I sell some of these on eBay,

311
00:22:49,519 --> 00:22:52,480
if we sell enough, will you
make me a bigger model with the

312
00:22:52,519 --> 00:22:56,559
liquids, liquid looking surface and the
beams on topic And he agreed, So

313
00:22:57,519 --> 00:23:02,039
I said about me selling these models. In the meantime, John made a

314
00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:07,119
couple more has rarely made a flying
saucer and a cigar shape UFO as well,

315
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,640
and these have all got lights in
the light up and looked really quite

316
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,880
smart. So I was selling now
I wasn't making any money whatsoever, and

317
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,519
giving all of the money to John, and eventually he agreed to make the

318
00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:22,720
larger model. So he built this
one and it said like an A four

319
00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:26,440
size and the surface. Spent a
lot of time getting the surface to look

320
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,640
like it's liquid. It looks like
a lake with little waves all over it.

321
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,680
Then on top of this, we've
actually now got silver beams which are

322
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,200
interlocking on the surface. We've got
four red lights at the back which have

323
00:23:38,279 --> 00:23:44,240
got like a criss cross effect in
them, three red lights underneath, white

324
00:23:44,319 --> 00:23:48,160
lights in the middle, and the
beams under the surface as well in relief,

325
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,480
the same as we've seen in Belgium. So we ended up with a

326
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:56,799
perfect model. And that's when I
said to him, if we do that,

327
00:23:56,799 --> 00:24:00,720
I might go back on the road
and do a conference and show people

328
00:24:00,759 --> 00:24:04,400
the modeling you've made because it is
perfect. And this is what happened.

329
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:11,400
I decided then to just like last
year, go to OLM conference out to

330
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,119
Limits magazine with Chris Evans in hall. I took the model and I did

331
00:24:15,319 --> 00:24:19,240
an hour's presentation. That's where I
met you. Actually, yeah's right,

332
00:24:19,319 --> 00:24:25,359
Yeah, I met a few people
there that week. Yeah, the presentation

333
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,039
went really well, but then I
met the kin seller Twins chatting with those

334
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,799
in Philip and they're a nice gentleman, aren't they easy to talk to?

335
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:41,119
And one he was telling me about
the triangle that he'd seen, and Philip

336
00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:45,000
suggested that I write a book.
Well, I did, in the back

337
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:48,640
of my mind think that one day
I might write a book about my experience,

338
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,759
but I thought i'd do it when
I retired. But once once you

339
00:24:52,839 --> 00:24:56,720
put that into my mind, that
thought into my mind, I decided I

340
00:24:56,759 --> 00:25:00,039
was going to do it there and
then so when I came back, I

341
00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:06,359
started on the book, and I
started collected information and just locked myself away

342
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,599
in the office for several weekends to
just get all the information together and to

343
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,799
produce the book. So that's the
basic story. Now, that's what I

344
00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:22,559
call the nuts and bolts of the
story, and that's for the first twenty

345
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,519
years. That's probably just what I
talked about, the nuts and bolts,

346
00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:30,559
and what I've just talked about now, But there is more to it,

347
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:40,119
and of late it's starting to become
recognized that this happens. So basically there

348
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,839
is a connection. I believe there
is a connection between the power normal and

349
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,920
UFOs. Oh yeah, there is
definitely. The reason I say that is

350
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,920
because let's go back to the night
of the thirty first March nineteen ninety nine,

351
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,000
when the craft started to float in
the air, when the nose came

352
00:25:59,079 --> 00:26:00,759
up and I looked at it,
I mean, I was so excited.

353
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,799
It was just the most incredible site
I've ever seen in my life. But

354
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,359
then all of a sudden, it
was just like somebody got a pair of

355
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,920
binoculars and put them in front of
my eyes, because I could then see

356
00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:17,880
the beams on the surface into Locking, a close up view of two beams

357
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:22,640
until Locking raised up off the surface. Followed by that there was a second

358
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,200
view, which was the nose,
which was really round. I remember thinking

359
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,200
how round the nose was, but
it was really close, you know,

360
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,000
it was right in front of my
face. And then there's a side of

361
00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:37,519
view. Now the craft has got
a central white core that runs around it,

362
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,319
and the top and the bottom joined
onto the central milky white core,

363
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:47,400
and the edges are rolled over like
a hovercraft skin onto this central core.

364
00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:51,920
And the thing I remember thinking was
that how beautiful they had been put together.

365
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,559
There was no welding, there were
no nuts and bolts, there were

366
00:26:53,559 --> 00:26:57,359
no rivets, it was seamless.
The way it had been manufactured was just

367
00:26:57,519 --> 00:27:02,519
incredible. And then the next thing
I remember is like sort of saying,

368
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:03,640
being in the canton, I want
to get out, When to go out?

369
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,559
By which time my wife pulled forward. We got out and it live

370
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:14,640
gone. So I started thinking,
and the best I could come up with

371
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,839
it was I'd hadn't know how to
body experience. I thought that I got

372
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,359
so excited I'd come out of my
own body and got close to the craft

373
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,000
to get these extra views. Now
it sounds crazy, I know, which

374
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:29,880
is why for the first twenty years
I didn't really talk much about that.

375
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:33,680
I just talked about the nuts and
bolts of what I've seen. But without

376
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,039
those close views, especially of the
Central White Corps, I would not have

377
00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:41,880
been able to have built the model
that I've got here in front of me

378
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:48,160
today, the one that you see
on Facebook all the time. So I

379
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,799
believe it was done intentionally to show
me the details. And the only reason

380
00:27:52,839 --> 00:27:56,359
I can think why they would want
to do that is to build the model

381
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,799
and maybe eventually write the book and
be part of a subtle disclosure. I

382
00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:08,200
don't know. But then what happened
then was over the next eighteen months two

383
00:28:08,319 --> 00:28:15,319
years, I was starting to have
power normal encounters, not encounters, but

384
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,799
pow normal things happening. There were
lights in the sky initially some of them

385
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:22,200
were quite close, someone going through
ninety degrees and strange things going on,

386
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:27,799
and then there was I've kept a
list of all the things that happened with

387
00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:33,759
the dates. There were some splats
on the head, but the most I'll

388
00:28:33,759 --> 00:28:38,279
talk about quickly talk about the most
scariest one. It's the only time I've

389
00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:41,759
ever been fighting during all of this, and that's when I was fishing.

390
00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:48,000
This is about eighteen months after the
encounter, and I'm down the river and

391
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,240
I'm really enjoying myself. I'm standing
in the river in my ways as catching

392
00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:55,279
a few fish. I'm in a
competition, actually, but I'm in a

393
00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:59,759
field on my own. And then
I hear these footsteps coming across the field,

394
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,960
four footsteps, really loud, and
I think that's two people and they're

395
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,640
probably shooting, because I've seen people
down there shooting before in the past,

396
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,119
like farm work. So I thought
I better up up the bank and make

397
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,759
myself known, say they don't shoot
in my direction. So I climbed up

398
00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:21,279
the bank and there's nothing there but
the footsteps. They're continuing and they're coming

399
00:29:21,319 --> 00:29:23,400
towards me, and it's getting louder, and I'm thinking it's a big cat,

400
00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:26,160
a big cat that's going to come
for when I was panicking, so

401
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,960
I've got a spark out of the
wild hole at all that I used from

402
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,559
the umbrella, and I thought the
game plan was, if it was a

403
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:34,960
cat, I was going to go
back down the embankment down to the river

404
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,359
and get it to jump on me
and pay it on its own weight.

405
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,519
That's where it went through in mind
at the time. And I stood there.

406
00:29:41,519 --> 00:29:44,799
I tell you, I was fighting
to death. I was bricking it.

407
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,599
And this thing walked in front of
me from left to right and he

408
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,599
couldn't see a thing, nothing at
all, and it was really loud from

409
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,880
left to right, and then it
just sort of started to fade away.

410
00:29:55,839 --> 00:29:57,480
And then I tried to flush it
out, but there was nothing to flush

411
00:29:57,519 --> 00:30:02,960
out. It was just an invisible
creature. And I stood there and I

412
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,039
thought that that wasn't a big cat, and I don't think it was even

413
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,079
here in this world as such.
It's one of these space time contingency things

414
00:30:11,079 --> 00:30:15,559
that people talk about. And that
was the day, David. That was

415
00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:19,240
the actual point right there and then
that I decided that I knew that the

416
00:30:19,359 --> 00:30:26,440
UFO was interdimensional rather than extraterrestrial,
right, Okay, So I was actually

417
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,440
going to go into that as well. But so now you've mentioned it,

418
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,680
so carry on, please, Yeah, because you know, i'd seen the

419
00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:38,799
UFO close up and I had to
close viewing of the surface. Prior to

420
00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:41,799
that, I'd had no parer normal
experiences in my life whatsoever, nothing that

421
00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:47,240
I can remember. Anyway, Now
after the event, things are starting to

422
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,319
happen, and it's pretty obvious they've
come from that event, from the UFO

423
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:57,680
encounter. So why would that be. I mean, if that was a

424
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,599
craft that had come from a another
planet, you know, from Mars,

425
00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:06,119
then once it had gone back to
Mars, you wouldn't expect to have any

426
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:14,039
other experiences. So that led me
to believe that it was dimensional and somehow

427
00:31:14,599 --> 00:31:18,160
it had left its mark on me, which was allowing other things to come

428
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:25,200
through. Now I couldn't figure out
why, but I was thinking along the

429
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,599
white lines that they'd done something,
something had happened that night there was allowing

430
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,640
me to see and hear other paranormal
things around me. So what happened next

431
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,240
was I went to well it actually
before that, in the early days,

432
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,400
I went to a conference in Leeds
that used to be run by Graham Bird

433
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:48,079
Salt and Russell Callahan. They used
to do the old UFO magazine. That

434
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,559
some fantastic conferences up there, and
that's some very interesting people, and one

435
00:31:52,559 --> 00:31:56,319
of them was Delayed Wood Hopkins.
Now I managed to get just about thirty

436
00:31:56,319 --> 00:32:01,000
seconds with Bud and I told him
about the encounter and about the close viewing

437
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,200
that I had that I thought I
had an out of body experience. Now

438
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,920
Bud said to me, that wasn't
an out body experience. So those images

439
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:13,039
were placed in your mind by the
aliens. It was like an alien telepathy.

440
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,119
And then this woman butted in.
He got a crystal and he said,

441
00:32:17,119 --> 00:32:20,519
oh look, Bob, I found
this where there was a UFO question

442
00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:22,559
in the woods. And Bob got
chatting to her. And that was end

443
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:24,799
of my thirty seconds. That was
it. I didn't get chance to ask

444
00:32:24,839 --> 00:32:28,160
him to elaborate. At least she
got at least you got to meet here

445
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,279
anyway, Yes, and I've got
that bit of information from him. Now

446
00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:37,000
I wrote that down on the list
where I was keeping dates of all the

447
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:43,680
weird things that were happening to me. And then then what happened was i'd

448
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,920
been I took one of the small
models and did a presentation in Birmingham to

449
00:32:47,079 --> 00:32:52,400
Dave Holdron's Birmingham group, and I
talked there about I was starting to talk

450
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,880
about the close viewing. I was
starting to come out of the closet about

451
00:32:54,920 --> 00:33:00,880
this close close view in the para
normal stuff. And he he said to

452
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,319
me that he'd got a case that
was a bit similar, and basically it

453
00:33:04,359 --> 00:33:07,799
was a couple of guys who had
been watching a UFO and it landed in

454
00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:12,279
a field quite a distance from them, and they were standing by a gate

455
00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:17,319
watching the UFO and the occupants get
out of the craft, and the guy

456
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,319
said, all of a sudden,
one of them, although it was a

457
00:33:21,359 --> 00:33:23,599
distance away, maybe half a mile
or something, all of a sudden,

458
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,160
the guy's face was right in front
of his face, the alien's face,

459
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:34,920
and it was like he'd somehow telepathetically
had got closer to him across the field

460
00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:39,279
and was telling him basically clear off
and he shouldn't be there. And Dave

461
00:33:39,359 --> 00:33:42,960
said, that's, you know,
that is similar to what I was saying,

462
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,759
where I was looking at the craft
and all of a sudden it was

463
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:47,960
really close up, and I was
thinking, well, it is sort of

464
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,519
similar, but not He's quite exactly
the same, but it could be along

465
00:33:52,519 --> 00:33:57,960
the same lines. And then his
coincidences going, And within two weeks of

466
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,839
that, I got an email from
a guy in America. Now I've put

467
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,960
that one into the book. It's
the only American entry in there. And

468
00:34:06,079 --> 00:34:13,199
he started off by saying, I
was watching your presentation on the internet that

469
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,519
I did with Richard Hall some time
ago, and he says, just like

470
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:20,199
you, I had three images placed
in my mind when either close encounter with

471
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,519
a triangle. He said, one
of them was the pipe work on the

472
00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:28,840
outside. The other one was some
of the light features, whatever the light

473
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,480
was, whether it was plasma or
whatever, a ball of light. And

474
00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:37,559
he thinks the third view was inside
the craft. And so basically he was

475
00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:43,000
saying that he had three images put
into his mind during the close encounter.

476
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:45,719
Now, prior to that, I've
been listening to a lot of David Jacob's

477
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:51,360
stuff as well, where he's interviewed
a lot of abductees, and you hear

478
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,199
all the time that a telepathy is
used, and don't generally speak like we

479
00:34:54,320 --> 00:35:00,320
speak to each other. And I'd
always assume that telepathy was actually word going

480
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:06,000
backwards and forwards between people, not
necessarily pictures. But David Jacobs was saying

481
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,840
that some of the adductees that they
have images placed into the mind, and

482
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,760
which makes sense because an image,
you know, a picture, paints a

483
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,840
thousand words. So with that in
the back of his mind, and then

484
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,960
this guy in America saying he had
three images placed into his mind, it

485
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,679
was like a unique moment for me. I suddenly realized after all this time

486
00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:30,960
that wood Opkins was right. The
images were placed in my mind and it

487
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:36,079
wasn't an out of body experience.
And there's two reasons why I believe that

488
00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:38,840
as well now well three, I
suppose. One is because so many people

489
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:45,559
talk about that happening, that telepathy
takes place. And the other reason is

490
00:35:45,559 --> 00:35:50,639
because I often wondered if it was
an out of body experience, why after

491
00:35:50,679 --> 00:35:52,519
seeing the nose and then the side
of you, why I didn't see the

492
00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:58,559
craft role. Why was it like
three instant images one two, three like

493
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,320
that and nothing in between, so
there was no movement. It was three

494
00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:07,440
close up still images, so that
would make more sense of it being telepathy

495
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:15,480
rather than out to body, I'm
assuming, And what was the third reason?

496
00:36:15,639 --> 00:36:20,760
The third reason being the other occupants
of the car, my wife and

497
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,159
a daughter and my mother in law, were not having these extra experiences.

498
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:28,840
It was only happening to me,
not the others. And then our reason

499
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:35,199
that would be because the aliens on
board the craft actually did some telepathy with

500
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,000
me, and somehow that's changing some
part of my brain which is now allowing

501
00:36:39,039 --> 00:36:44,960
these other things to come in.
Yeah, but an important important facts and

502
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,320
volumes your jump in there. There
were still witnesses to the main event.

503
00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:51,440
They were the lights of everything to
see. Yeah, you've got you've got

504
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,599
the more close up you kind of
just me, Yeah, just me.

505
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:59,760
And that's why I think just myself
went on to have the other experiences because

506
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,760
of tampering with the brain if you
like, m hm, you know,

507
00:37:05,199 --> 00:37:08,119
as I say, we'll repeat that. I mean they saw the craft too,

508
00:37:08,199 --> 00:37:13,400
So you're sort of it wasn't you
imagining something and you know sort of

509
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,360
you nodded awful something and then thinking
you're going into some sort of out of

510
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:22,679
body experience. So what what is
your what I mean, what is your

511
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:30,239
family's opinion of what you're saying about
your out body experience? And yeah,

512
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,719
we did have some arguments about the
ice body experience at the beginning of things.

513
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:40,119
They found it hard to understand.
Yeah, it's the thing is you.

514
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,199
They know you, They know that
you wouldn't lie about something like that,

515
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:50,559
no doubt, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My wife

516
00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:52,800
unfortunately, she didn't see the craft
materialized. She only seen the lights,

517
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:59,280
so it was more difficult for her
to take on board what I was saying

518
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,599
about thinking out of body experience because
they didn't have the same experience. But

519
00:38:02,639 --> 00:38:07,599
my daughter and my mother in law
they both saw the craft, but we

520
00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:10,719
didn't really have too much of a
conversation about the out of body stuff.

521
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,880
My mother in law, unfortunately,
she's she's died now. She died joining

522
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:22,599
COVID, not from COVID, but
died of old age. And when they

523
00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:27,880
were clearing out her bedroom in the
wardrobe, there's lots of paranormal cuttings from

524
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:34,280
newspapers that she's been elective for years. That's an interesting nobody knew about,

525
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:37,360
so she must have any interest.
Yeah, she was that sort of experience

526
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:42,199
in the past. Now, maybe
she was the Keith or this. You

527
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,079
know, maybe the UFO made the
appearance because of her. Yes, we

528
00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:47,519
don't know. I can't say it
was because of me. It maybe because

529
00:38:47,519 --> 00:38:51,199
of mad. Yeah, she certainly
had an interest in it, and she

530
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,559
certainly liked me. She would have
got on board. We were so excited.

531
00:38:54,159 --> 00:38:58,800
It's amazing, absolutely brilliant. So
you don't actually know she might have

532
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:04,000
had experienced in the No, No, because I didn't find out she got

533
00:39:04,039 --> 00:39:07,159
all this paranormal stuff until she died, unfortunately, shame you never had sort

534
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:10,800
of those those conversations a bit earlier
that. Yeah, but she was a

535
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,719
very private woman. I don't know
if she would have talked about it.

536
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:20,199
I remember when when Omar Fowlder came
over to interviews or she was a bit

537
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,880
bit lukedant at first to talk to
him, but in the end, you

538
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:28,000
know, she started and she said, oh, it was a metallic triangled

539
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,199
a craft with beams on the surface, And that's when he took her off

540
00:39:31,199 --> 00:39:37,639
to one side and interviewed her privately
in the dining room. So, yeah,

541
00:39:37,679 --> 00:39:38,639
she she had an a bit interest, and like I said on the

542
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,000
night, I think me and her
would have got on board if we've got

543
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,440
a chance. My wife and my
daughter weren't quite so it's a keen Yeah.

544
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:51,320
Do I feel about it now?
Does it? They're not interested at

545
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,960
all? Yeah? My daughter has
an interesting ghost and things like she's seen

546
00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:00,440
a ghosts when she was younger.
Um. But my wife, it's funny,

547
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:01,599
you know, when we were kids, because we're in the sixties now,

548
00:40:01,599 --> 00:40:06,360
but when we were teenagers, she
was the one who had the Van

549
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,119
Danikhum ball. She was one who's
interested in all this. Yeah, that's

550
00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:12,559
the man who started me or through
them. Yeah, he's been around a

551
00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:15,679
long time, hasn't He bought charity
the gods. So she had the interest

552
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:20,000
in it, but never had the
sighting. Out of all of us that

553
00:40:20,119 --> 00:40:28,840
night, she didn't see the craft
materialized. But an interesting point is I

554
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,280
asked her to do what she did
see now. She drew three red lights

555
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,519
in a perfect equal, actual triangle. There's no way we could have seen

556
00:40:36,559 --> 00:40:39,159
that from the angle, even though
the craft was tilted towards us. Although

557
00:40:39,159 --> 00:40:42,920
the craft wasn't there, the lights
were there. They were all mingled up

558
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,480
because you could see the four on
the back and the ones underneath, plus

559
00:40:45,519 --> 00:40:50,320
the white which must have been in
the center of the craft, all mingled

560
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,039
up together, so it just looked
like one big laser show. It's just

561
00:40:52,119 --> 00:40:58,440
incredible. But you wouldn't You wouldn't
be able to pick out three red lights

562
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,599
in a perfect triangle. Now,
a few months later, ask her tour

563
00:41:01,639 --> 00:41:05,280
it again what she'd seen, and
she did the same thing. Three red

564
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:10,480
lights in a perfect equal actural triangle. Now I have wondered, and it's

565
00:41:10,519 --> 00:41:19,840
only a wonder if the small craft
was actually like an ambush. That was

566
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,039
debate because it was lit up and
it was tilted towards us, and I

567
00:41:23,079 --> 00:41:25,800
believe the reason it was tilted was
to show more of the lights than beneath

568
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,719
to make sure we couldn't miss it. Or it could have been that they

569
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,559
were looking at us, well we
were looking at them. I don't know.

570
00:41:36,559 --> 00:41:39,599
So as we drove towards it and
we stopped on the road and me

571
00:41:40,119 --> 00:41:43,639
were daughter, my mother in law
was staring at the lights and then watching

572
00:41:43,679 --> 00:41:47,519
the craft materialize. There is a
possibility that the large triangle that we've seen

573
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,599
after the event was actually passing over
the car at the same time as we

574
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:58,559
were looking at the small triangle.
It's almost like an ambush in effect.

575
00:41:58,559 --> 00:42:00,679
So the little triangle was all singing, all dancing like a Christmas tree.

576
00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:07,079
We pulled up alongside it. Then
possibly the large triangle came over the car,

577
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,840
and then we reversed into the gateway
and jumped out, and there is

578
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,840
the large triangle. By this time, it's probably a half a mile,

579
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,320
maybe a mild away, going away
from us. But I don't know if

580
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,039
that occurred. We could only guess
on these things. We don't really know

581
00:42:22,199 --> 00:42:24,679
what took place at night, but
it is a possibility. And it is

582
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,559
strange, as she seen three red
lights like that, because none of the

583
00:42:29,639 --> 00:42:31,480
west US never saw that. There's
no way we could have seen that,

584
00:42:31,679 --> 00:42:35,800
not from the angle of where we
were. Yeah, it's obviously a strong

585
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,599
memory for her, yes, yeah, yeah, And bearing in mind that,

586
00:42:39,639 --> 00:42:43,320
you know, she didn't see the
craft materialized, so she wasn't staring

587
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,400
at those lights. She was concentrating
on the road. She was more concerned

588
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,960
about traffic. But there wasn't any
traffic, no air traffic, no road

589
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,719
traffic, no people, no street
lights, no nothing, just pitched black

590
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:59,280
in the middle of nowhere is what
you would expect. Yeah, whatever,

591
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:06,480
you had an expert since there you
know of any type since the UFO,

592
00:43:06,639 --> 00:43:09,880
Yeah, quite a few. I've
listed them in the book, like the

593
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,920
one down at the river that was
Yeah, apart from yeah, sorry,

594
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:20,599
I met kind of UFO incidents.
Yes, I've been there again. I've

595
00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:23,480
been to the UFO conference in Leeds. I can't remember which year it was,

596
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,800
but I remember coming back and my
wife and my daughter in bed,

597
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,440
and I came upstairs and I looked
out the window over the park and there

598
00:43:32,519 --> 00:43:37,679
was a ball of orange light inside
a really low cloud and I could see

599
00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:40,599
a beam of light coming out a
bit like a pencil. It wasn't like

600
00:43:40,679 --> 00:43:45,360
omnidirectional. It was coming to the
edge of the cloud and it was just

601
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,360
incredible, and it was there just
over the park, really close. Now.

602
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:52,679
I brought myself a camcorder because I've
been seeing so many different lights moving

603
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:55,320
around in the sky. So I
went to my bedroom and grabbed the camcorder

604
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,199
and I thought soon as a picture
that. I thought to himself, if

605
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,679
it's going to go, he's going
to go now, and went back to

606
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:06,239
the window and it had gone.
What a shame. I shouldn't have tried

607
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,079
to record it. I should have
just stood there and watched it. And

608
00:44:09,559 --> 00:44:13,599
the thing as you do want to
try and get some evidence to show people,

609
00:44:13,679 --> 00:44:15,400
don't you. Yeah. I wouldn't
bother that because I don't think people

610
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,840
would believe it anyway. Yeah.
I think if they want you to photograph

611
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,960
them, they'll they'll let you know. But otherwise, I think if you

612
00:44:22,039 --> 00:44:25,519
try and photograph them, they're going
to clear off, or the photograph won't

613
00:44:25,519 --> 00:44:30,199
be legible, or you do people
don't believe it. You do. Here

614
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,239
so many people say they tried to
photgraph something and it just comes out or

615
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:37,400
misty or doesn't come out at all, So you're probably right. They probably

616
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,960
wouldn't see it anyway, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I think most

617
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,800
of the ones you do see a
look on YouTube or whatever, it probably

618
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,760
fakes anyway quite lightly. Yeah.
Yeah. Some of the other things that

619
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,000
happened were like I'm gonna have to
play darts on a Thursday night. We've

620
00:44:51,039 --> 00:44:53,400
gone to a pub in Burbage,
the Anchor, and we're sitting outside the

621
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:58,920
darts I was having having a beer
before the match and they've got this splat

622
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,519
on top of me heade and oh
nay, a bird's pood on me and

623
00:45:01,559 --> 00:45:05,599
I put my hand up and there's
nothing. It's completely dry. It's not

624
00:45:05,639 --> 00:45:09,039
a cloud in the sky, a
beautiful clear sky. Affle's that's really odd.

625
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,719
And I thought nothing of it.
You know, some muscles spasm,

626
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,760
although you haven't got muscles in the
top of your head, so I don't

627
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,000
know what it could have been.
So on its own you would have forgotten

628
00:45:20,039 --> 00:45:23,480
about it. That was on the
Thursday. On Saturday, I'm concentrate on

629
00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:27,519
building the first the second wooden model, the Mark, who is one of

630
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:30,079
the lights in and I'm spending quite
a bit of time in the shed firing

631
00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:32,480
away at the corners, making them
perfectly round. And I come out of

632
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,039
the shed to go up to the
house to get a cup of tea,

633
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,559
and blimey, a splat top of
my head, just like on the Thursday

634
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:43,599
night. Just felt like a bird
had pood on my head or somebody had

635
00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:45,679
dropped an egg on it or something. And I looked up in the game

636
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,480
Clear blue Sky and there's no drops, a rain or anything. Watching the

637
00:45:50,519 --> 00:45:53,239
house, made a cup of tea, come out and again splat top of

638
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,440
the head. Three times I could
twice on the Saturday and once on the

639
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,239
Thursday, and It's never happened again
since. But that was quite quite an

640
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:06,679
odd one. Strange as been shooting
you with a ray gun or something from

641
00:46:07,199 --> 00:46:08,599
well, I don't know, some
sort of download I think to make me

642
00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:13,360
continue making the model. Yeah,
I know what it was. Spurred me

643
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:22,360
on and other things that. Okay, we had a synchronized dream. I

644
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,039
mean, I don't know talk about
dreams because I always think the dreams are

645
00:46:25,039 --> 00:46:31,000
just the way of your brain working
things out. But we got separate bedrooms.

646
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,440
My wife was in one bedroom I'm
in and other my daughters in her

647
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,400
bedroom. I had a dream one
night that there was there was a UFO

648
00:46:38,559 --> 00:46:42,679
over the house, hoping over the
top of the house, and I heard

649
00:46:43,079 --> 00:46:47,199
an alien come out of the crafts
cutter down the tiles, and as I

650
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:52,199
can hear him coming down, I
dreamed that my wife walks into my bedroom,

651
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,440
comes and sits on the bed next
to me, and this alien comes

652
00:46:54,440 --> 00:47:00,480
through the window towards us with a
silver one in his left left hand,

653
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:06,119
and I think he's gonna like I'm
going to be attacked with the handles and

654
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,760
start screaming, and I wake myself
up and in real life I'm screaming at

655
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,360
the top of my voice in the
house, like in bed in the middle

656
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,440
of the night, doesn't wake anybody
else up, just just me and I

657
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:19,760
think, God, that was an
awful dream. Now, me and my

658
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,960
wife were together thirty years. All
that time, she never ever spoke about

659
00:47:23,039 --> 00:47:28,039
dreams. She never had any dreams, never remembered any dreams. That day,

660
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:30,360
when I come downstairs, she was
already in the kitchen, and before

661
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:31,599
I said anything, she turn around
and said, Oh, I had a

662
00:47:31,639 --> 00:47:36,000
strange dream last night, says I
dreamt there was a UFO over the house

663
00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:38,840
and I was walking from room to
room looking for Victoria. I thought,

664
00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:43,800
Wow, that's absolutely amazing. I've
had the same dream. How can we

665
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:51,719
share a dream? How weird was
that? I have wondered whether that could

666
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:57,119
have been done telepathically, you know, from the UFO event, the fact

667
00:47:57,119 --> 00:48:00,599
that they showed me the close up
images by using telepathy, that did that

668
00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:02,920
sort of like stay with me a
little bit. Didn't managed to affect the

669
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:10,360
wife that night telepathically or was it
a really then that's a possibility. What's

670
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:15,920
your own personal beliefs in the it's
a dimensional. I know you mentioned it

671
00:48:16,039 --> 00:48:20,920
because I mean, I think a
lot of these things are in the dimensional

672
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:27,679
that you say, rather than the
extraterrestrial. Yes, provides I would put

673
00:48:27,679 --> 00:48:31,320
on that is that once we learn
about these dimensions and we start traveling on,

674
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:37,519
perhaps as a possibility we could use
them to travel and then pop back

675
00:48:37,519 --> 00:48:43,119
out again in our own dimension.
But you know, a thousand light years

676
00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:47,320
away. It's the technology there we
don't know yet. So although I'm saying

677
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:54,760
I firmly believe they're dimensional, there
maybe some types of aliens that are using

678
00:48:54,800 --> 00:49:00,760
the dimensions to get here, which
may have originated in our own Yeah.

679
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,920
Yeah, yeah, I understand what
you're saying, but I am under percent

680
00:49:05,039 --> 00:49:09,039
convinced that all these things are dimensional
that are coming through absolutely. Yeah.

681
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:13,000
I don't know if how much you
know about the original from you were prom

682
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,199
insted of nineteen eighty, but they
the gym Peniston seems to believe that that

683
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:22,239
was the inside dimensional you've been other
than extrast real. Yeah. I think

684
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,320
there's always a lot of high strangeness
with the close encoarunters, and that's one

685
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:32,119
of the things it makes me think
they're dimensional rather than extraterrest wheel. Yeah,

686
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,639
well, I've seen your models.
Obviously you gave us a demonstration that

687
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:42,800
the om event and it's absolutely brilliant. Actually, it's don't believe you could

688
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,679
you can? Are you saying them? And the small one? Yeah,

689
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:49,920
we've got some small ones for sale, not the large one. The large

690
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,559
ones pretty expensive to make. Yeah, I think you understand that. That's

691
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:57,480
why you were demonstrating, wasn't it. I know you can. Yeah,

692
00:49:57,559 --> 00:50:00,760
have you got like a website or
something that some people No, it's just

693
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,960
on eBay. Actually, I'll just
say, right, so we just put

694
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:08,280
your naming and I think you probably
have to put to PEP Tech thirteen,

695
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:16,360
p p e K t e K
one three kilo Tango Echo Kelo one three

696
00:50:17,039 --> 00:50:22,599
PEC thirteen. I think about four
triangles on their vable at the moment,

697
00:50:23,159 --> 00:50:28,159
A couple of sources. I mean
John John's still making these occasion to me,

698
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,519
like just as a bit of a
hobby. Term Again, I'm not

699
00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:35,360
making anything out of them, anything
out of the UFO stuff. I think

700
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,559
it goes against the grain, you
know. Yeah, I'm saying you've only

701
00:50:37,559 --> 00:50:39,920
seen it so you can make money, but that's yeah, I mean,

702
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,280
I mean, you know as well
as I do. There's not a lot

703
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,400
of money to I mean, unless
you're a big name or something and you're

704
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,639
in you know, you're being flying, flying all over the world and everything.

705
00:50:50,679 --> 00:50:52,559
But I know there's not a lot
of made to be made in these

706
00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:57,000
things, same as books that you
don't make a portion out of them.

707
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,480
So the models that I saw very
very good. Yeah, they're excellent.

708
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:06,719
They are spot on, really and
from my own memory, and I do

709
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,039
think I've got a good memory from
that night. It still feels like it

710
00:51:09,079 --> 00:51:15,239
happened yesterday. And the training is
addressman and being addressman. Then I think

711
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:19,199
this is as close as you're going
to get to a perfect scale model of

712
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,480
the real thing. Yeah, well, what I'll have to do. I

713
00:51:22,519 --> 00:51:24,639
think I'll go through eBay and find
the link for it and I'll put it

714
00:51:24,679 --> 00:51:30,159
on the Apparan Oral Dimensions page.
Certainly one can have a look at it

715
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:34,920
or maybe even buy some off of
you. Yeah, yeah, you know.

716
00:51:35,119 --> 00:51:37,840
But so they are very very good
models, must say they are.

717
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:43,360
Yeah, I think they're absolutely fantastic. And it's some great images in the

718
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:47,960
book as well. The books said, I don't know while the sales again,

719
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,119
and I don't think they're brilliant,
but there's a lot of interest,

720
00:51:51,159 --> 00:51:54,320
a lot of interest worldwide comforting.
Well, that is it. It is

721
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:58,239
a world wide thing, isn't it. It's I mean, I'll also put

722
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:00,960
a link to the book as well. It's will try it. I'll repeat

723
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:07,679
it again. It's Triangle UFOs UFOs
of the United Kingdom. That's Saunders.

724
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:13,199
And you can get it on Amazon
and yeah, anywhere also, no just

725
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,079
Amazon, but you can have a
kindle and there's an audiobook, paperback and

726
00:52:17,119 --> 00:52:21,360
the hardback. So yeah, I
think it's about four hundred pages and it

727
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:22,880
it's quite a thick book. Yeah, there's quite a lot in there.

728
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:30,760
I mean there's one hundred and thirty
different sightings, different witness accounts of encounters

729
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,960
with triangles. And the interesting thing
you know when people talk about or is

730
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,360
its secret military craft. There's one
hundred and thirty sightings and not two of

731
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:43,480
them are exactly the same. The
different sizes, different shapes, well generally

732
00:52:43,519 --> 00:52:49,840
speaking, the regal actual different colored
lights. And so if you're manufacturing them

733
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:55,280
a secret plane like the F one
one seven night Walk for instance, you

734
00:52:55,320 --> 00:53:00,440
don't keep changing the shape of it
and changing you can ponents. Otherwise you

735
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,519
end up with a nightmare. If
you've got like one hundred craft and are

736
00:53:04,519 --> 00:53:07,960
all different and you're going to keep
them flying. It's just a logistical nightmare.

737
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:13,400
Which one would we go forth?
Yeah, and like I've only scratched

738
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,400
the surface of the UK with this
one hundred and thirty UFOs. Now there

739
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,920
may well be thousands of sightings in
the UK. So if you take that

740
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,760
worldwide, it's got to be hundreds
of thousands of itings of triangles. And

741
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,159
you're not going to tell me these
are all coming out of area fifty one.

742
00:53:27,199 --> 00:53:29,920
It's just crazy. If you think
that people say to me, oh,

743
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:30,800
it's a t R three B.
I think, God, you need

744
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:36,079
to do some proper research. It's
just not just not feasible, it's just

745
00:53:36,119 --> 00:53:39,400
crazy to think that. Yeah,
I mean a triangle and the thing goes

746
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:43,679
back quite away as well. I
mean we had to Phoenix lights they were

747
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:50,239
that was like a triangle shape.
Yeah, yeah, I think in the

748
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:57,280
book the earliest report I've got his
nineteen fifty six. But looking around,

749
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,800
the earliest report I've come across of
a triangle was in fifth sixty one in

750
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:06,079
Nuremberg. I don't if you remember
there's old Yeah, I know about that

751
00:54:06,119 --> 00:54:08,199
one year there's a battle in the
sky. Wasn't a between Well, wasn't

752
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:14,880
there. I mean, I've read
a bartier, but they say that that's

753
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:19,239
pretty strange. It's a report that
they're going all that way back. Yeah.

754
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,599
Yeah, the triangle turned up at
the end of the year. The

755
00:54:22,639 --> 00:54:27,960
war that had been going on in
the sky, the fight or you wouldn't

756
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,639
actually think that anyone could back then, couldn't even think of something going on

757
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:35,679
in the sky a local a war
in the sky of some coin, right,

758
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,119
Yeah, but it's all been written
down and it's if anybody wants to

759
00:54:39,159 --> 00:54:45,920
research it's that's amazing. Fifteen sixty
one triangle. It is amazing. Yeah.

760
00:54:46,039 --> 00:54:50,599
Yeah. So I've learned quite a
bit from writing the book as well,

761
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,719
you know, not just about my
own experience, but other people's.

762
00:54:53,679 --> 00:55:00,679
Um sorry, just did you speak
to the chaplain? Dar Cooper is a

763
00:55:00,679 --> 00:55:04,920
good friend of ours. Um,
yes, I've got his reporting the book.

764
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,760
Yeah, was in there because that
was a big triangular object. It

765
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:12,239
was very close as well, you
know, just over his head, so

766
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,239
you know he's definitely seen one.
I mean, I believe all the people

767
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,320
in the book talent the truth.
I don't think anybody's making it up.

768
00:55:20,039 --> 00:55:23,280
Why would you like to be really
cool. Yeah, it's just the same

769
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:28,000
as Darren says. I mean it
actually was. It actually terrified him and

770
00:55:28,039 --> 00:55:31,480
it changed his life. Um,
it's not something he's made up, and

771
00:55:31,559 --> 00:55:37,079
obviously he wasn't. He wasn't the
only one saw it either, So yeah,

772
00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:39,480
it's changed changed my life, you
know. But it's I have to

773
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,679
say it's only been positive. I
can't think it's been negative. The only

774
00:55:44,159 --> 00:55:46,400
time I was a bit concerned was
down the river bank when I thought it

775
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:51,960
was a big cap. Once I
realized it was power normal, then I

776
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,920
relaxed a bit more. I don't
know if you watch Blaze TV him in

777
00:55:54,920 --> 00:56:00,320
the UK. We've got it obviously, but I don't actually offer and watching

778
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:01,559
because there are a lot a lot
of repeats that you get a lot of.

779
00:56:01,599 --> 00:56:05,000
It is, yeah, history shared
order, that type of thing,

780
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,199
aren't they. Yeah, But there
was a show One to the Night a

781
00:56:08,199 --> 00:56:13,519
couple of nights ago, and the
top researchers on there, and this time

782
00:56:13,559 --> 00:56:19,559
they're now staying that they believe it's
dimensional. And one of them was saying,

783
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:25,719
I've got his name, Louse.
Somebody's quite elizo. Yeah. Yeah,

784
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:31,280
he was saying people who have close
encounters often go on to have other

785
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:37,280
paranormal experiences after the UFO, and
they've actually got a name of it.

786
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:42,519
They called it the hitch Hiker effect. No, I've never really had other

787
00:56:42,519 --> 00:56:45,960
people, apart for myself, talk
about it before. Well, I'll tell

788
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,480
you what cause you say that.
I mean, if you listened through quite

789
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:51,159
a few of these shows, you'll, if you will dig back into the

790
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,280
the you know, the older shows, you'll hear that quite a lot of

791
00:56:54,400 --> 00:57:00,079
people have experiences after seeing uropos.
I mean, the same thing happened with

792
00:57:00,159 --> 00:57:05,639
the can Sellers, didn't it with
Philip? Yeah, so that he developed

793
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,760
his psychic abilities after the UFO,
he've been stor he thinks he did.

794
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:15,360
Once I started collecting them more recent
sightings people I was in touch with,

795
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:17,679
or I was asking them when they're
wrote in if they'd had any other experiences,

796
00:57:17,719 --> 00:57:23,400
paranormal or UFO experiences, and more
people were saying yes than no.

797
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:28,960
So I've ended up putting a whole
chapter in the book dedicated to UFOs and

798
00:57:29,079 --> 00:57:35,239
paranormal because so many people have had
experiences of both. It does seem though

799
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:39,280
that a lot of people have paranormal
experiences when they're younger, and then it

800
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:45,079
sort of culminates in the UFO encounter, whereas it's been the other way around.

801
00:57:45,079 --> 00:57:50,920
I've had the UFO encounter first and
then the weird paranormal experiences afterwards.

802
00:57:51,679 --> 00:57:57,440
But I don't remember really prior to
the UFO experience. No, you didn't

803
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,800
have any childlook trold them experience is
anything? M Yeah, I know what

804
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:07,280
you're saying. One of my first
experiences when I was a child actually had

805
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:12,800
a purple mist coming to the room. But and then I had that experience

806
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,360
with the UFO in the sixty seven. But since then, I haven't really

807
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:21,760
seen me. I've seen a couple
of UFOs or that seemed to be like

808
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:27,519
moving stars and things. Yeah,
but nothing really, I can't say I've

809
00:58:27,519 --> 00:58:31,079
had any real parallel experiences. I
don't. I don't consider ourself psychic or

810
00:58:31,119 --> 00:58:35,840
anything. I mean, did you
think you do you feel that it might

811
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:42,679
have accepted, um, you know, enhance your psychic abilities? Um?

812
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,360
Yeah, I guess so. I
don't. I wouldn't say to a fantastic

813
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,239
extent, I wouldn't say I like, you know, I could do healing

814
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:53,599
or predict things or anything along those
lines. Do you feel more sensitive to

815
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:58,119
suff like that? Yes, I
think so I mean, I've got certainly

816
00:58:58,159 --> 00:59:00,880
got a more open mind. I've
always had an open mind, but it's

817
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:05,039
a lot more open now than it
used to be. I keep expecting to

818
00:59:05,079 --> 00:59:07,760
see things, and I'm always looking
on now after Like in the book,

819
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:12,480
I've listed all the things that were
going on, and they lasted like for

820
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:16,480
a couple of years really, and
then it's gone quiet, you know nothing.

821
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:23,719
But then during lockdown I did have
a sight in then during the day

822
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:28,000
when I was out walking the dog
across the fields, there was like a

823
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:34,679
metallic sphere and it was really odd
because it was a big round it looked

824
00:59:34,679 --> 00:59:37,840
like it was metallic, and it
was gray, and on the left hand

825
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:43,079
side of it it was flashing a
real bright white light and it was wrapping

826
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:47,079
itself around the actual shape of the
sphere, but only one on the left

827
00:59:47,079 --> 00:59:51,719
hand side, So the left hand
side of it was just like flashing,

828
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:57,719
and it was like not a continuous
flash. It looked like it was malfunctioning.

829
00:59:58,519 --> 01:00:00,880
It came down. I've seen it
up in the sky in between two

830
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:07,039
different aircraft, and the aircraft went
in different directions and then this metallic sphere

831
01:00:07,159 --> 01:00:09,519
just sort of come down a little
bit and I followed it women, I'm

832
01:00:09,519 --> 01:00:14,239
going to try to photograph it.
I did photograph it, but it's pointless.

833
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:19,639
It's about one pixel big on my
phone. I tried video in it,

834
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:23,079
and that's the only video I've ever
talked that's gone wrong, and it's

835
01:00:23,079 --> 01:00:27,119
all wobbly and going all over the
place. Even though that the craft was

836
01:00:27,159 --> 01:00:30,039
at distance, it may have had
some sort of effect on it. I

837
01:00:30,079 --> 01:00:32,159
don't know. Yeah, that was
really exciting, and I was running around

838
01:00:32,159 --> 01:00:36,039
the field of getting a better view
of it, and eventually it was download

839
01:00:36,159 --> 01:00:39,599
enough you could see grasp behind it. But by this time it's like a

840
01:00:39,679 --> 01:00:44,960
mile or so away, heading towards
the motorway. Because I was high up,

841
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:46,760
I could look sort of look down
on it and see the ground and

842
01:00:47,039 --> 01:00:51,280
behind it, so it wasn't way
up in the atmosphere. It was down

843
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,639
there on earth. Whatever it was. That's the only thing I've seen in

844
01:00:53,719 --> 01:00:59,039
the last fifteen years. I think, Yeah, that's interesting because I mean,

845
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:04,000
we do see these little balls and
they seem to be like like a

846
01:01:04,079 --> 01:01:07,159
small probe. Don't know that there
seems to be that comes out from the

847
01:01:07,719 --> 01:01:12,320
major craft. Yeah, I don't
forgot these things flying about sort of doing

848
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:16,719
examinations or whatever. But so,
yeah, it's weird. Yeah, something

849
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:21,639
you said earlier about that, that
the one you saw from your bedroom window

850
01:01:21,679 --> 01:01:25,519
about the orange color. Yeah,
orange seems to happen a lot, and

851
01:01:25,639 --> 01:01:30,480
that was the color that I saw
back in sixty seven. Yeah, it's

852
01:01:30,519 --> 01:01:36,280
not a normal light that you would
see on a craft. Orange normal aircraft.

853
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,199
Yeah, sorry, what I saws
It was like an incandiscent light.

854
01:01:40,239 --> 01:01:45,400
It wasn't like a bright light.
Yeah. Um. Going through the book

855
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:50,119
just quickly, yeah, amazing.
One or two notes, and one of

856
01:01:50,159 --> 01:01:53,960
them was like on the colors that
people see of the craft itself, because

857
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:59,599
I've always thought that the train was
going to be gray or or black.

858
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:04,679
That's the majority of reported being that
color. But going through the book you'll

859
01:02:04,679 --> 01:02:07,719
find that people do describe gray and
black then the most popular. But also

860
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:13,000
we've got orange colored triangles, a
silver one, gold, white, blue,

861
01:02:13,079 --> 01:02:19,039
dark brown, and a green triangle
are coming in different colors and lights

862
01:02:19,039 --> 01:02:22,719
as well. I've always thought generally
speaking, you've got red and white lights,

863
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,559
sometimes the reverse, you know,
like the middle light can be white

864
01:02:27,039 --> 01:02:30,360
and the corner lights are red.
Sometimes the middle light can be red and

865
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:35,039
the corner lights are white, but
other people have reported not just red and

866
01:02:35,039 --> 01:02:37,840
white, but green and blue,
yellow, orange, bronze, purple,

867
01:02:38,559 --> 01:02:44,679
and pinkish and also quite often a
beam coming down from the center where the

868
01:02:44,679 --> 01:02:49,519
white light is shown. Another interesting
thing is a noise. I mean,

869
01:02:49,559 --> 01:02:52,320
on the night of our encounter,
the engine was running all the time on

870
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,880
the car. It never stopped,
so there's no interfering, no electrical interference,

871
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:00,280
but we couldn't hear the craft with
the sound of the car engine.

872
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,920
It was totally silent. I don't
know if we'd have got out whether it

873
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,039
would have heard anything. But people
do report like a dull horm or a

874
01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:14,480
low humming noise like a transformer,
and some people say buzzing or droning and

875
01:03:14,559 --> 01:03:19,159
sucking like a vacuum cleaner, so
that there is occasionally noise associated with these

876
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:24,960
craft. And the sizes obviously vary
from small to football pitch. Just to

877
01:03:25,039 --> 01:03:29,519
say the size that you saw,
you think there'd be a great, big

878
01:03:29,519 --> 01:03:32,000
injury and it would be awful lot
of noise, wouldn't you It would,

879
01:03:32,079 --> 01:03:37,400
yeah, But it was totally totally
silent. It was just marvelous. And

880
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,679
the way it moved, I mean, that's one of the things about these

881
01:03:40,679 --> 01:03:45,840
triangles the movement, This is important. They don't move like a Harrier jump

882
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,840
jet. They float like a submarine
under water. So you go through the

883
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,800
book and look at what people are
saying, and these are the words that

884
01:03:52,719 --> 01:03:55,960
that he used to use fluid which
glide, gliding and floated. It looked

885
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,840
like it was under water. And
some have even seen it flying blunt end

886
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,760
first as well. Quite often a
few times their balls of light turned into

887
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:10,559
triangles, which is an odd odd
thing. I know you were saying earlier

888
01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:15,239
about a little then could and spheres. I've got a couple of accounts in

889
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:17,840
the book where there was one local
where a friend of mine seeing a triangle

890
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:25,239
over caterpillar at Deskford. Well it
was doing over Caterpillar. I don't know

891
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:29,280
the Caterpillar works. I know they
were developing a hydrogen engine at the time.

892
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:30,119
Whether they're interested in that or not, I don't know. But he

893
01:04:30,119 --> 01:04:33,360
said it was massive, this triangle, like a football pitch type thing.

894
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:36,599
It just sat in the air of
bolt to the Caterpillar plant. But a

895
01:04:36,679 --> 01:04:40,719
red light had come out from it
and it was where he take it was

896
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:44,239
going round and round the nose of
the craft. Just going round and round

897
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:48,920
and around like it's some sort of
observation probe or something. These things are.

898
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:57,000
I have another account of a guy
called Keith who drove his motorbike from

899
01:04:57,079 --> 01:05:00,679
and then Eaton to Hinckley where he
which is only like a ten, ten

900
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:06,159
or fifteen minute journey, and he's
back in the seventies. He said that

901
01:05:06,199 --> 01:05:11,400
he was coming up Coventry Road towards
what we call Transcoe, which is the

902
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:15,719
headquarters of the gas distribution for the
UK. They've got a big antenna there

903
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:20,199
as well, with lots of tenner
dishes on a big, bigger ray.

904
01:05:20,719 --> 01:05:24,559
So he's coming up Coventry Road and
he said the first thing he noticed were

905
01:05:24,599 --> 01:05:27,639
balls a light flying along with him. I think it was a red one

906
01:05:27,639 --> 01:05:30,840
and a blue one, which he
obviously thought was very peculiar. But when

907
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:35,599
he got to the transco to the
gas works, his motorbike stopped working,

908
01:05:36,199 --> 01:05:40,280
and he said he sat there with
his straddling the bike and he looked up

909
01:05:40,599 --> 01:05:44,920
and a triangle came over the gas
works, and he said were massive,

910
01:05:45,159 --> 01:05:47,039
like one and a half times or
one of the third times the size of

911
01:05:47,039 --> 01:05:53,079
a football pitch, and glided over
his head underneath was a little glass dome,

912
01:05:53,159 --> 01:05:57,880
but he couldn't see anybody in the
gloom in the dome. And then

913
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,920
he just watched, watched it glide
over and go over Hinckley Town Center.

914
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:06,000
Well, well, but the weird
thing is he got home and he's lost

915
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:10,199
one and a half hours. He
knows what time he left his girlfriends,

916
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,679
and he knows what time he should
have been home, but it was one

917
01:06:13,679 --> 01:06:15,800
and a half hours later. So
he woke his parents or told him what

918
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:21,119
had happened, and they confirmed the
time was correct. And he said to

919
01:06:21,159 --> 01:06:25,559
me, I've met him a few
times, actually, but he never knew.

920
01:06:25,679 --> 01:06:28,000
He's never known what's happened that one
an half hours. It's just gone

921
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,719
out of his life. He just
wants to have any recollection of what happened.

922
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:35,000
He may well be the only conjecture. He may well have been taken

923
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:40,400
all the crows and fed, his
memory really taken off of him. It's

924
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:44,239
a possibility, or there's some sort
of time dilation involved. Yeah, there's

925
01:06:44,239 --> 01:06:47,360
there's always something else. Yeah,
But so it is weird, these missing

926
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,840
time events, and so it is. Yeah, and also these balls alike,

927
01:06:51,039 --> 01:06:55,920
you know that people report coming away
from the craft. I'm floating around

928
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,239
on the way. You do hear
it a lot. Yeah. The guy

929
01:06:58,239 --> 01:07:00,960
in America who emailed me to say
that he'd got three close up views of

930
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:04,920
the craft, he said, what
happened next with him? A red light

931
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:09,880
came detached from the triangle and it
came down right next to his car,

932
01:07:10,519 --> 01:07:16,079
and it made his car jump three
times. Now, there's an interesting coincidence.

933
01:07:16,119 --> 01:07:18,199
I don't know if it means anything, but I'll mention it anyway.

934
01:07:18,519 --> 01:07:23,599
He said it made the car jump
three times. The images he saw there

935
01:07:23,599 --> 01:07:28,440
were three images, the pipework,
the lights, the interior. On the

936
01:07:28,519 --> 01:07:30,000
night of Iron Character. When the
craft floated up in front of me,

937
01:07:30,159 --> 01:07:36,199
I had three thoughts, Aliens exists, abductions take place, This explains mysteries

938
01:07:36,199 --> 01:07:40,360
from history. And then when I
had a close viewing, I had three

939
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:45,480
close views the surface, the nose, and the central white core. It's

940
01:07:45,519 --> 01:07:48,000
like the number three keeps cropping up
for some reason. It's like the magic

941
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:56,039
universal number number three, three at
a time. Three images. But whether

942
01:07:56,079 --> 01:08:00,239
that means anything like, I don't
know, but I do say things things

943
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:02,679
coming three. Don't know. It
seems to be a magic number. Yeah,

944
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:06,679
maybe maybe that's what we can cope
with three images at a time,

945
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,800
three thought at the time. You
know, like we can only remember six

946
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:13,280
digits for phone numbers. That's why
we have six digits. If you start

947
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:19,560
having eight digits and trying to remember
more times don't Yeah, until you get

948
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:26,279
to our age. I suppose,
you know, almost struggling with past passwords

949
01:08:26,279 --> 01:08:30,600
and digits and good those little phone
numbers and yeah, times I get asked

950
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:33,319
my phone number if it oh,
we don't not to phone me on number.

951
01:08:34,239 --> 01:08:40,399
That's right, you don't, do
you know? Anyway, I suppose

952
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:43,800
we ought to draw a light other
that. It's been fantastic everything on the

953
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:46,920
show. Thank you very much for
finding the time. That's what I've enjoyed

954
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,119
it. It's been lovely. Yeah, it's been great. Are you going

955
01:08:49,159 --> 01:08:54,399
to be at the OLM conference again
this year or not? I've not planned

956
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,319
to at the moment. If if
I'm three that weekend, I might pop

957
01:08:57,399 --> 01:09:00,119
up here and see. And that
is the out of the It's magazine comperence.

958
01:09:00,159 --> 01:09:02,800
I think it's in September. I
think of the date offend. I

959
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:08,720
think it's the end of September,
isn't it the date offend? Uh,

960
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:13,720
that's the thirtieth right right at the
end of September. So well, if

961
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:16,359
you are there college, I'll see
you there and I've already got more tickets.

962
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:20,880
Okay. So if it's been great
talking to you, and I hope

963
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:24,600
to run into you again at sometime. Yeah, you will do. I'm

964
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,359
sure it's been great having a chat
with It's always nice to talk to the

965
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,520
converted, to be honest, Yeah, I will be converted for a long

966
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:35,279
time, but you know so I
will put those links on the Parallel Dominician's

967
01:09:35,319 --> 01:09:41,600
page so I can see your book
and and the craft itself, which are

968
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:45,640
amazing little models. Appreciate that.
We'll live it there. Thank you,

969
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:48,520
Colin. Okay, thank you,
nice talking to you. Take care of

970
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:57,520
yourself. There we are. That
was Colin Saunders. Thank you, Colin.

971
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,359
Very interesting. We'll done, thank
you, Okay more. Next guest

972
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:04,600
on the eighth of May is going
to be Mark Oli. We're going to

973
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:10,319
be going into the world of King
Arthur and Merlin the Magician. That's Monday,

974
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:13,239
May the eighth, and it will
be fascinating, I assure you.

975
01:10:14,199 --> 01:10:15,479
Okay. As always, if you'd
like to get in touch with me,

976
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:20,239
my email address is David Young took
in at Yrho dot co dot UK.

977
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:26,399
There's David Young too, q in
at Yrho dot co dot UK. I

978
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:29,800
hope you are joining for the next
show of May the Eighth's a Monday as

979
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,720
always and it's Mark Oli, so
take care of everybody. I will speak

980
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:38,399
to you again on May the eighth. Bye bye. Paranormal Dimensions is as

981
01:10:38,399 --> 01:10:43,880
bright and powerful as our celestial star
US up. And although it's expending thousands

982
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,199
of pounds of energy every minute of
the day, have no here, There's

983
01:10:47,239 --> 01:11:53,319
plenty left. Paranormal Dimensions is fortnightly
on Mondays on the Paranormal UK Radio Network.