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Brace yourself for another shocking twists and
the Moms for Liberty's moral crusade in this

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tangled web. The only thing more
twisted than their moral compass is their sense

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of irony from fossly accusing drag queens, the fabricating tales about librarians. Moms

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for Liberty have tried to make themselves
the moral police, but a founder's husband

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is under police investigation for alled sexual
assault. They all agree there is a

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mutual sexual relationship outside of their Christian
marriage for a year. I wonder how

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that'll go over the next church pop. Look, some have already abandoned their

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clown car, including Desantus, who
said it's time to go. They are

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more like a tabloid than a political
movement. For Mons for Liberty, the

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one thing harder to defend in their
positions political relevance. In this circus of

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scandal, it seems the real illusion
is their credibility. And Scott, I

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know you really like this group.
What did you think about? Well,

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I guess it's you know, in
a way, it's not really all that

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surprising. We see this kind of
stuff happen all the time. These people

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up on the high horse getting knocked
off by their own actions. And so

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but one thing I need I think
we need to consider though, is that

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you know, Moms for Liberty is
an organization of other human beings, and

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so we should expect there to be
human qualities amongst their groups. You know,

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they say that there's assholes in every
group, right and every there in

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their saints and assholes in every group. And so so I think we can,

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uh, you know, following along
with that dictum that it makes sense

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that we would expect this kind of
thing. But also, you know,

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I have to admit humans like,
you know, when nasty people get their

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come up and right they they I
do feel a sense of superior superiority when

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I when I hear stories like this. So I guess the real irony here

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is that humans just love pointing out
hypocrisy and others. And that's kind of

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what's happening here. Having said that, these people just really suck. And

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so if this is something that all
humans experience, why do we see it

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happen so much in these groups?
It seems to be happening more on the

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on the conservative religious and the conservative
political end of the spectrum. You know,

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I hate to sound like a broken
record, but I think on this

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point it's worth repeating, and that
is that there is robust evidence supporting the

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idea that political and religious conservatism go
hand in hand with authoritarian sorry, authoritarianism

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and dogmatism. And so we're talking
about ideologies that value things like loyalty and

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purity and their repulse by anything that
they think is impure, and it boils

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down to shame. So this is
a result of shame. I found a

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report from the Journal of the Canadian
Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. They

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said unrepaired shame as an organizing emotion
in the process of identity formations argued to

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create particular vulnerabilities to stigmatization. Sometimes
the hardest barriers to overcome may rest within

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the adolescent, as the shame nurtured
by parents. Shame nurtured by parents leads

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to subsequent self loathing created by the
culture and religious value system. Negative feelings

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about oneself can be internalized and the
result and result in shame, denial,

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self harm, and hatred and abuse
of others. And so I think that's

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what's happening here. The emotional immaturity
of adolescence may lend itself to them,

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choosing self hatred and anger as coping
mechanisms. Okay, so there's shame happening

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when these people are young, they
get older, they see these qualities in

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themselves. That leads them to self
loathing, and then of course that leads

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they can turn that the dissonance that
come up as a result of that self

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loathing causes them to turn that hate
outward. One little another quote here,

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for all that self hatred, as
they said, can lead straight into the

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hatred of others. This is from
Psychiatric Times by doctor H. Stephen Moffik.

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He says, for such a common
and destructive feeling, hate has been

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understudied by psychology and psychiatry. Freud, though, did positive a psychological posit

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a psychological mechanism for hate, that
being projection. Right, So we're going

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to be talking about projection in this
one. In projection, receive personal badness

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as psychologically transferred upon to others.
In other words, for hatred, we

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can consciously or unconsciously dislike things within
ourselves and want to disown them. I'm

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not terrible, you are that kind
of thing. So now where that hatred

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goes depends on individual and group relationships. This last sentence I thought was very

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important here. Cultish ways of controlling
and distorting thinking can intensify the hatred.

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So my point here is that we
shouldn't be all that surprised that these types

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of stories of hypocrisy show up so
often, because it's baked right into their

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ideology. Eli, what's your take
on it? I think you said a

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lot of things that just better than
the way I could have said it.

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I wasn't familiar a lot with a
lot of the things that Mothers for Liberty

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were doing, so I kind of
I looked on their website. I've heard

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about them on the Show, of
course before and in other things, but

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I looked at their website. Find
a little about the MFORL Foundation. Okay,

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what do they do? Like they're
doing some charity that's donate books to

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school libraries. And this distracts from
the point little bit, but I'm like,

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okay, like, what kind of
books do they donate? This one

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is called an elephant is not a
bird? Oh this must be about how

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evolution is not real. That's cute. Oh no, wait, this is

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about how dressing like a different species
doesn't mean that now you fly. That's

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growth. So that's the liberty that
they're concerned with, is the liberty to

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marginalize groups of people because they don't
exist the way that you expect that they

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should not the liberty to exist the
way that you would like to so and

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it does it. I really like, like I said, at first,

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you said a lot of things that
I would have said, just better,

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because I do think it is this
psychological projection where they have this shame about

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their own you know, like humans
have sexual desires, Humans are sexual being,

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and they have this shame about their
own desires and they project out out

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onto others and possibly because of that
shame nurtured by parents, that even adults

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that I know now that have kind
of shameful attitudes towards sex just because that's

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what they were taught to believe about
it, and it doesn't they don't really

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ever take the time to realize,
like, no, that's just like kind

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of a natural thing. So like
if this was just a story about threesomes,

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like there's no story because that doesn't
that's not a thing that matters.

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But these conservative groups that love to
claim moral superiority, whether that be sexual

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morality or whatever it may be,
they almost always have this this hidden side

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that they're just trying to cover up. They're trying to shine the spotlight away

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from them, because if I can
get everybody looking at everyone else, nobody

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is going to look at me and
see what I'm doing because I'm embarrassed and

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I'm ashamed of what I'm doing,
And that I think is the crux of

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it, and the really horrible thing
about it is because these people are ashamed

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of things they have no reason to
be ashamed of, and for that reason,

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they're going on to project hate and
shame and vitriol onto others just for

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existing the way they like to exist. And you know, as you mentioned

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in the opener, I'm sure that
Zieglers would have you believe that, you

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know, sex is between a married
man and a married woman, but that

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of course didn't stop them from inviting
a third on more than one occasion into

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their marriage, which again, like
that's not an issue, that's their choice

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and the choice of that you know, third person. As long as they're

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a consenting adult, there's no reason
any of us need to care about that.

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It's of course the story here.
The issue is when they were not

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consenting adults, and you know,
it's interesting to see. I'm glad to

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actually see that there are some consequences
for not just as Zieglers, but Mothers

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for Liberty as well. On December
fifth, I believe it was NBC News

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post that there was a Pennsylvania chapter
of Mothers for Liberty that was shaired by

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Clarissa Page. And they're disaffiliating from
Mothers for Liberty as a result of the

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foundation's response to these allegations against Christians
Eaglers. And it's interesting to see that

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not only are they losing the support
from outside, they're falling apart from inside

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as well. And infidel You've called
them the gift that keeps on giving,

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like on the show before and then
you know, but I think they're on

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their way out. I think they're
about to stop giving because it just seems

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like they're they're kind of losing all
of their traction and their support. Yeah,

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I mean, I don't really have
much more on that, Phoebe.

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What do you think, Well,
it feels like the Republican Party have been

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searching desperately for a replacement for the
NRA. The National Rights Association, the

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National Rifle Association fell flat, It
ran out of money. It did really

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bad here. They'd be desperate,
desperate to find some organization that will slide

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in and take the place that the
NRA used to take. Mums for Liberty

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came along and they were Yes,
anti OLGBT, anti trans candidates and elections.

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That's how you win, That's how
you win. Oh, twenty twenty

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three midterms. I think your description
is overly generous, Phoebe. What an

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horrific night they had across America.
Overwhelming number of Mums for LIBBERD candidates failed

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to get elected or lost re elected. And the number one thing that voters

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set was we just want people on
school boards who will focus on educating children,

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nothing else, not radical agenda.
I mean, I mean, blimey,

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I mean none of this ephemera book
bands that we've covered before, anti

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LGBT legislation, don't say gay bills
in Florida, Disney being blackboarded. Nobody

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votes on those things. In a
school board election. They go, they

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turn around and go, well,
who's best to the kid? Matter where

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you are left, right, center, up, down, in and out,

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people are going to turn around and
go, are you best for this

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seat? Who start shouting around about
other things? No matter who you are.

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People are just going to get turned
off by you. Genuine it's gonna

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get actually turned off. But I
was disappointed in the article. This article

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was disappointed because it's stooped to the
same levels that Mums for Liberty stooped to.

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It focused on using sex as something
to hook into. It was like,

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oh, my god, you had
a threesome, and that's the kind

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of thing I expect Mum's for Liberty
to shout about. Salon dot Com,

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on the other hand, decided to
make that part of the article and part

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of his shame. That did seem
weird, and that was really disconcerting and

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really disappointing because these idiots, or
both sides of this art, the subject

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and the author and the publication for
that matter, are perpetuating this myth that

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a man and a woman, or
a man and a man, or a

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woman and a woman, or however
many people you want in a room or

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whatever your sexual identification or gender identification
is choosing consensually in private, harming nobody

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else, having sex is something to
be shamed. What this isn't the nineteen

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fifties. This isn't eight teen fifties
Victorian England, where showing your ankle was

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enough to get you blacklisted. We
have to move away from this. Sex

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is shameful garbage, and the article
itself detracted from the most important thing here.

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A person in political power who has
accused others of being dangers based on

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sex is now charged with being a
sexual predator. That's where it was.

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He was accusing a group of criminality
based on sex, and he himself is

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now facing charges of criminality based on
sex. Not Oh my god, him

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and his wife have a threesome.
Let's laugh and giggle and all be school

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children because we've got nothing better to
do. Go fuck sight saloon, get

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your act together. We did get
Phoebe's little giggle there recorded, right,

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so we just I just want to
make sure we got that. Okay,

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good, Sorry, infidel, go
ahead. I'm so angry is cramp.

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One thing that I think that does
make the threesome relevant and probably why it

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played such a big role in the
story, is how they've hied themselves to

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this mindset of religious purity. I
mean. Zigelier has said her aim is

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literally the quote, to bring religious
values into public schools, and she referred

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to public schools as in doctrination centers
for the radical left. She's teaching in

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a gym. Threesomes well, and
where did these people get off sayingess are

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a no? I don't think I
never heard any one of these religious looms.

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A threesome is a no. No. I'm not going to be able

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to give you a description verse,
but I will say that when they go

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to church next Sunday, uh,
they will be looked at differently and the

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viewpoint of the people around them will
have a different perspective. Because of that,

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Christians don't let reality get in the
way of truth, even when it

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comes to judging each other. In
fact, Christians love judging each other,

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maybe more than they enjoy judging us. Probably not, but it's a close

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run. I mean, that's why
we see so many different denominations, so

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many sects, so many split off, so many disagreements among each other,

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because at the end of the day, it's someone wanting to keep the control

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for themselves. Now with back to
Monds for liberty, though, Phoebe,

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you mentioned they're absolutely getting hammered in
the last last election, and then you

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want to slight it. They did. They got absolutely destroyed. And the

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good thing is is that people are
getting tired of this. People, as

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you said, are learning that we
just want people to do the job of

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a school board and not someone who's
going to be everything else. And you

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know, bridget herself, she's diversified
too. She's also part of DeSantis's board

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against Disney and his anti LBGT you
fight against Disney that he rolled up and

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keeps losing. She she's part of
that as well. So when it comes

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down to it, this is this
is a couple who are tied in to

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a variety of organizations very close to
the whole uh DeSantis camp. You know,

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I've got to say that, you
know, we we see these groups

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screaming save the kids from the rooftop. But as you said, we see

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the same things. This this projection
is working thin, and I do think

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it's lost its luster, and I
think that we are going to see them

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die a slow and painful death,
or at least I hope a slow and

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agonizing for every moment. But on
the bright side, Scott, on the

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bright side, there's a hot off
the Press's news addition to this story just

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today. It's Phoebe. You were
mentioning about how they were using the threesomes

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as like the clickbait, right,
that's the attention grabber, and they were

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they were clouding over the important.
You know, there's somebody here that's accused

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of a harmful crime and so and
but here they're talking about all parties and

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whatever, right and so. So. In the story release today, Bridget

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Ziegler her Sarasota County Board school Board
colleagues have approved resolution to call for her

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resignation. Now, the story said
that it was because of the three way

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sexual relationship, and now you have
me wondering if that's just the reporting of

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the resolution. So I didn't read
the actual resolution, and so I don't

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know if that's you know, what
was the reason. But for whatever reason

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it is, she's been asked to
resign. And so I think we would

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all agree that having a threesome is
no way reflective of her ability to perform

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on the Sarasota County school Board.
However, I don't think anybody, any

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of us, would shed too many
tears if she was, you know,

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given the old heave ho. So
my question, and we just got a

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minute or so left here, my
quick question for the pan is, if

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she were removed because of this,
do the ends justify the means Eli,

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that's really close. I think I
would prefer that she'd be removed for a

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legitimate reason, right, for something
that actually is wrong. I wouldn't once

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be like, oh, well right, but will you take it? Would

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you take it? I might?
Yeah. I think it's you know,

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counter blessings, right right, Phoebe, What do you think it means?

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Here? No democracy being undermined?
Swa believe record elections? It's twenty two

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caliber actions in a three fifty seven
magnum world beat that follow that one in

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fidem I won't even try. I'm
still waiting for the slow death. So

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maybe a pellet gun. I wanted
to be slow and agonizing. Remember,

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but seriously, no, I don't
like I mean the idea of her getting

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out of office. It makes me
feel happy and warm on the inside.

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But the truth is no, the
ends doesn't justify the means. And as

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much as I might find personally satisfaction, I would hate to see that as

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the reason for her to go.
I'd rather stand there and look like a

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fool and as an example of a
liar, and let her stay in the

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public eye so we could point and
say that's what, that's what A person

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who says one thing and does another
does so No, please bridget stay by

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all means, don't resign, fight
it, stick around, and we'll laugh

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all the way to the end.
Well, at least I will. Scott.

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Are you are you? Are you
advocating a Rod Blago situation in Illinois

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where he stayed to the bitter end
and must be impeached by a majority of

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the Illinois Center You are you advocating
that kind of democracy? Well, you

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know, I have my concerns about
democracy, and Joan if I want to

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be completely hones those for those of
you who don't know, Rod Blogo was

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the guy who tried to sell your
part of the Senate seat to the Yeah,

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try to sell it. But democracy, at the end of the day,

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is about accepting elections can be won
by people you don't yes, right,

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And that's the problem that the individuals
seem to have with democracy. I

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personally believe democracy is the way to
elect and the way to select those who

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run from amongst us, those who
choose to put themselves forward, and those

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who choose to represent the organization.
They're representatives, not delegates. And the

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way how you enhance democracy is you
have the ability to say voters, Person

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X did this, Do you agree
with what they did? And should they

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stay in office as a result a
recall election? Not off, you stupid

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idiot. Okay, Yeah, well, I think for me, I would

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say I probably wouldn't be too bummed
out if she was removed from office,

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but I don't think it would reflect
well for the reasons that you've all given.

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I don't think it would reflect well
and the committee that they would remove

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her for that particular reason. Yeah, and yeah, and so I think

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this would be an excellent spot for
us to wrap up this discussion here and