You're listening to KF I am sixty on demand. Ellis welcome to the Jesus
Christ Show. Yes, sir, thank you've taken the call my pleasure.
Oh. I'll go to a wonderful church and enjoy it, and I give
a lot out of the preaching and everything. But they handle a belief that's
once save, always saved. I'm dougging the Bible and I just can't find
anything about that. Oh you okay, So you think that salvation can be
lost? Oh? I believe if you're saved and you go back in the
sin and you would die that I don't just ano see how you can go
to heaven. Well, do you believe that you're saved currently? Oh?
Yes? Okay? Um, are you a sinner still? No? So
you're not a sinner anymore? You don't sin anymore? Uh? Yeah,
I guess I do sin, okay every night? Okay, So, but
I don't get it. So you go back and forth between being saved and
not saved every day? No? Yes. The Greek word that's translated into
English's salvation means safety and deliverance. So it's kind of a hard stretch to
believe that either it's safety or it's not safety. Now you can walk out
of the home. Let's say that there's a home that is guarded beyond any
other home. It is the most well guarded fortress in the land. Yes,
if you walk out of that house, you're no longer protected. But
with Christianity and with your salvation, there's many, many scriptures. I'd point
you to Romans eight, thirty three and thirty four. Also John three three,
Tightus three to five. All of these things are important to understand first.
But a lot of people go they go to let's say, Hebrews.
Hebrews chapter six, verse four, and says, for in the case of
those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have
made part bin mart been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted
the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and
then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance,
since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put him to open
shame. So a lot of people read that and they say, see,
people can fall away, and they can lose their salvation. But if you
cross reference that verse right there, Ellis with Matthew twenty seven thirty four.
It talks about me on the cross and them giving me the vinegar, and
if you remember, I taste it, but I don't drink it. I
taste it, but I didn't drink it. And that's important to that part
of the gospel. But also the word therefore tasted is the exact same word
that's used here in this verse in Hebrews. And really it's about those who
have tasted, who have kind of walked up to the line and maybe gone
to church, maybe claimed to be a Christian, those types of things,
but they have never immersed themselves in the faith and never ever truly invited God
into their life. Now, the reason why they can never go back is
because they don't believe they're gone from it to begin with. They just don't.
They don't capture that. But keep in mind, above all these things,
what is it that you think you could do that outdoes the blood on
the cross? Nothing? Absolutely, So it's not about the sin. It's
about the Redeemer. And it's not about what sin can you do that would
keep you away from or take you away from God? It's what sin could
you do? That God couldn't cover with the blood of his son. And
therefore to make the statement that once saved, always saved is a fair one.
It's a fair one. And I know that not all churches in Christianity
believe that, but it's a very fair one. And I think if you
look through scripture and you think about the true concept of being given this gift
and that your only partner is to receive it and to understand your sinner and
to be in that constant state of repentance turning away from those things that are
not of God, that you'll understand that this gift given to you by God
wouldn't be taken away by God if you sinned, because that was the whole
purpose of salvation is to bridge that gap. Because people are sinners. So
if you miss the mark, which is what sinning truly translates to me,
and if you miss your mark, the purpose of God being there is to
get you back on that mark, not to shun you for forever. Chris,
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Illow Jus h want just in the
wrong way, but an about free will and all. But I wonder if
if Heaven was therfect, why a third of the angels left with Lucifer.
Okay, so in what sense are you saying, why would they not want
to be there if it was perfect? Yeah, okay, it's it's not
much different than why people reject good things on earth as well. Now,
the difference between angels and humans are are this and it's going to be a
big concept in a small amount of time. So bear with me that if
you can imagine a glass, an eight ounce glass, and it's empty,
that's a human when they're born, and that eight ounce glass is filled up
throughout their life with experiences and is only full at the point of their death.
So that decision that they make prior to death is the best decision you
know, or made with the best information that they'll ever have in their life,
and therefore it's an ultimate decision. Now that that means that a Christian
can waver back and forth in their faith, but if they believe, truly
believe, and give their life to Christ right before that point of death,
that decision becomes final to an angel. An angel, when created is a
is a filled glass. They don't come into any newness. They're they're what
they call in theology, a fully actualized potential. So the full potential of
that eight ounces is given at the moment they're created. So when an angel
makes the decision, the angel makes it with the fullness of understanding, especially
being in the presence of God. They know all that they're going to know
in that context, in that way, in that form. So you have
Lucifer who's there in the presence of God, and Heaven is perfect. But
Lucifer, as it talks about in Scripture and Isaiah fourteen, it talks about
Lucifer having pride and wanting to be bigger and better than God and more important
than God. And at that point and those angels that see that agree with
Lucifer, and at that point those angels are cast out of heaven, and
Heaven remains perfect as far as the free will, because angels have free will,
it's merely a choice or a desire to be above God or that pride
that steps in that changes that relationship and changes their dealings with God. And
now no longer messengers for God. They are messengers of their own chaos.
And they are sent and now to have rain on earth and will ultimately be
put in the Lake of fire. So it's really a matter of pride stepping
in. But that doesn't speak of the perfection of heaven any more than it
speaks of the perfection of the garden of Eden. As long as if you
remember, it talks about it being good, it is good, It is
good as good, it is whole, which is where perfection comes from.
It's only when someone makes the decision to break that communion with God or to
go on their own way, that the will of God is lost and not
sought. That there is a breakdown in the order of things which makes things
imperfect. That won't happen in heaven. There won't be that you won't get
the opportunity to make that decision. Differently, when you're in heaven, you
make the decision now in the fullness of your life, and then it's with
you for eternity. Tim welcome to Jesus Christ show I thank you protecting my
call. I want to find out your thoughts and what scripture says about God's
intervention I am. The only example I can give you is reading a lot
about the nine eleven a tragedy. There was a lot of people that's fated
that they heard a voice that might have told them to go one way or
the other. Many people felt that that was God's intervention helping them, and
there was a lot of people that didn't have that or that went the wrong
way and might not have survived. And so I guess my question is because
I don't know everything about the scripture and I wanted to know what your thoughts
were. Is why do you feel or what does the scripture say about God's
interventions from possibly certain people and not other people, even though many of the
people probably were God fearing people and Christians and that sort of thing. Oh,
that's a wonderful question because a lot of people get caught up in you
know, truly, if God intervened in everything, there would be no problems,
right, you know it Just because the majority a good chunk of the
planet comes from the Judeo Christian presupposition, you're going to have a good number
of people that are listening to God. So there's a couple of things to
keep in mind. First, not everything God says is heard by man,
meaning even the believer can reject certain things that God says because it suits them
or doesn't suit them. There are many things that are told directly to you
from scripture, not even in your head, but in scripture that you know
what to do and what not to do, and people still don't do them
right the Ten Commandments. There are people that lie all the time. There
are people that steal all the time. Even people that are Christians believe,
oh, well, this isn't stealing, it's just a paper clip from work,
or they justify it. But ultimately they're using excuses. So it doesn't
mean that God isn't speaking just because man isn't listening. However, the balance
of what God does versus you know, when it comes to intervening, God
absolutely intervenes in creation, but not in the superhero type way. There is
always an exit. God will allow you an exit for things spiritual. So
spiritually, if you're in a situation where the devil's taunting you, or the
devil wants you to do something, or or you're feeling tempted, there will
always be an exit. People say, no, if I get you know,
sexually, as or I get to a point where I'm excited, there's
no way I can go back. That's not true. There's always going to
be an exit for you to downshift and relax, find a way out from
that. But in life. There's not always an exit from harm. There
just isn't. And people it's it's very easy when something good happens to you
to give glory to God. It's the case because all good comes from God.
So it's very easy for people to say, oh, I feel that
God led me through this path, and they may it may be more along
the lines of someone saying, hey, my my, you know, Dad
taught me how to be good with my hands, and when I was out
in the wild and when I got lost that one time, Um, you
know, I was able to build an a frame, fire and build shelter
and all of these things. And I really felt that my my dad,
rather my dad taught me well and he really got me out of there.
Now, some people may be using it like that, like tools that God
has given me to think through things and to understand has gotten me out of
there. And there's times where God legitimately reaches into a circumstance and says do
this as a way for an individual to confirm their faith and their understanding.
And there's not a specific category in scripture that says these are the times it's
going to happen, and these are the times it's not. You just know
from scripture that it does happen on occasion, and not everybody heard or not
everybody was told. And to find some sort of understanding as to who God
tells and who God doesn't that you're not going to find that. In scripture
it says that he speaks to the faithful, and that doesn't mean every time
or all the time. It just says that He does speak to the faithful.
And in this case, it doesn't mean that the person that didn't hear
it isn't faithful and that the person that did hear it is more faithful.
It's just the choices of God for whatever reason you may not know here on
this particular plane. It may be some time when you're in heaven before you'll
understand the fullness of these moves and for what reason God does those things.
But for now, just understand that it is possible, and that you should
be attentive and discerning to the voice of God. Carl, Welcome to Jesus
Christ Show. Hello Jesus Hi. My question for you today, sir,
is on faith, loss of it and the possibility of truly getting it back
or is this a situation you're living through right now, Carl, Yes,
Okay, what's going on? Well? As a child, I grew up
in church relatives that are missionaries over in Brussels, Belgium. But at one
point, whenever I switched to a different church, I was labeled a creative
evolutionist because I believed in science and I believe in God. Okay, through
there, and won't I won't call it a tax, but through their unwillingness
to kind of help me get this work done in my own brain, I
left the church and over the years had just lost a basic faith in myself
And don't know if the ability to truly get it back and truly believe something
that you've lost belief in. And I'm just wondering your thoughts on that.
Well, it sounds to me a little bit that, doesn't it, Carl,
like you you left a bit in a pout, because I mean,
if you really believe something and it's even a little different from the church,
and you want that you know, and I say, the church in this
case, the specific church you were going to r why not try and teach,
why not try and explain it and in the hopes of people understanding things
a little differently, or maybe you didn't really believe it. I mean,
why wouldn't you at least fight for the idea to be heard, and why
would you just give it all up. I'm not I'm not sure that that
is the logical conclusions. I was ostracized and I was actually asked to leave
the youth group because I was asking questions that they didn't deem proper in their
church. Okay, well that's not the church you want to be in anyways.
I mean us questions. Are you know the questions are important? They
were to me, yes, of course. The Bible says test all things,
hold fast to that which is true and good. And it doesn't say
except for scripture, or except for these words, or except for those words,
or except from anything that comes out of the mouth of the church,
or no, it says you want you want to you want to test things.
You don't want to use that as an excuse to never have conclusions.
These people that say, oh, you're not being open minded, it's it's
it's garbage. The truth is an open mind is like that of an open
mouth. Its purpose is to remain open only long enough to put something in
it of value, and then to shut it to consume it, and if
the brain is always open, then you're never consuming anything. It's just things
coming in and out, and there's no there's nothing that you can build upon.
So I'm glad that you're thinking, and I think it's important for you
to grow and to learn. But have you continue to ask these questions?
Have you gotten answers why uh theistic evolution is or isn't a problem? Well
back then and again this is a long time ago, because I'm forty two
now and this is when A rose ten or twelve, I believe it was.
Oh, that's been going on for a long time. Yes, in
internal conflict, Yes, try to How can I say, try to rationalize
things for my own beliefs. I have just become and I didn't want to
become, but I have just become a see it, feel it, you
know, hear it type of belief person. Okay, So what I would
love to have the ability to truly believe in the ungraspable. Well, I
think that's a little simplistic for you, Carl, and I think you're a
little deeper than that, because I'm going to point something out for you.
Um, do you believe in uh spaceships and lightsabers and laser guns to the
extent of in the science fiction Yes, no, in the science fiction sense,
because there's they don't exist. You realize that there's no such thing as
a lightsaber. You can't control light to only go four feet high and so,
but you can see those things, right, You can see it on
cellulide, you can see them in a film. Um, so seeing doesn't
necessarily mean leaving, certainly, not anymore. With photoshop and everything else,
you can create things that look real that aren't real. Right, yes,
okay, So seeing is not believing, No, no, not an vetting.
So the point being that there are you still have to use discernment in
every walk of your life. Also, love, love is immeasurable. Now
they have done tests where they can see that the certain parts of the brain
are activating during love type moments, but you can't put it in a Petri
dish. Furthermore, when it comes to past singular events, you can use
a science called forensics, and you can take a past path to look backwards
and say this is here, which notes ergo because they like using Latin ergo.
This points to this, This points to this, and then it points
a picture of a murder scene, for instance, and they say, you
can't recreate the murder. It only happened once and it will only ever happen
once. So they have to use forensic science to take those evidences and piece
together a puzzle that gives a picture that looks and in the legal terms,
beyond the shadow of a doubt, that this is what went down. But
nobody knows. Nobody knows for sure, right, it's just this is our
best guess based on the information at hand. And that's essentially what science is
all around, not just forensic, but science is observation. And there are
even purer scientists, philosophical scientists that believe that the mere observation of the moment
or the evidence or the instant is unpure because you're looking at it, you're
observing it, and it's causing you're causing a change somehow. So there's no
such thing as a purely observational moment or purely scientific moment. Because you play
apartment there's all you can cut and continue to cut this in half and in
half and in half to analyze it. So really it's about using discernment in
life and knowing the difference between a photoshopped image and a real image. How
well you can go into the pixel configuration. You can go into all these
things. And when it comes to scripture, you're doing the same thing.
Faith is not something in place of reason, Carl. Faith is that tiny
percent that comes after reason that you can't know until you jump. You can't
know if that water is really water beneath you until you jump off the cliff
and land in it. You can assume because it looks like the color of
water, it's making the sound of water, it's consistency seems like that of
water that you've come across in the past. You're on a cliff. It's
very common when there's when there's something that's that color, that that's shape,
that that movement at the bottom of a cliff. Oftentimes it is water all
these things, but you don't know until you jump off it yourself and experience
that that it really is water. And no scientist will tell you Differently,
so when you're dealing with a past singular like evolution, no scientist knows.
They're looking at pieces and they're going, well, we think this is what
it means. That's why you've got punctuated equilibrium and all these different belief systems
in within that mindset of the theory of evolution, and the concern that the
Bible has with evolution or a church wood is that in Scripture, in when
it talks about creation, it says every flesh to its own kind, and
that would be a problem with theistic evolution because if the flesh is unto its
own kind, it mean it didn't morph or somehow come from a flesh of
a prior kind. So therefore, theologically there's problems with the theistic evolution model.
And it doesn't mean that science is wrong all the time, and it
doesn't mean that Scripture is wrong. It just means that the models do mesh
in a different way. Uh. And there's more studying to be done.
But to walk away from the Church seems like a big deal for a lot
of questions that you don't have answers to right now. Carl, Okay,
And I do apologize if I if I lean this towards evolution, because that's
not where I was wanting to put. That was strictly a bad evolution.
That's just kind of the name that they gave me at that time. Sure,
I'm just saying that as a bigger picture for the sake of our discussion
today is for a bigger picture. Just understand that there's more to know always,
and I just want you to take the time to study. And I'm
sorry that things went down that way. I'm not happy the way the church
responds to individuals quite often. Um. But but don't pin that on me.
I want to have a relationship with you, and I'm I'm hoping you
feel the same. George, Welcome to Jesus Christ Show. Yeah. Yeah,
I just wanted to ask a question because if you can point out somewhere
in the scriptures I could read possibly about a lighter side of Jesus. Nobody
seems to talk about that much. Were I want. I want to know
and believe that he laughed a lot. You know that he laughed and had
a sense of humor, and you know that that side of him. Um.
Is there anyone in the scripture I can read about that kind of that
side? You know what? You don't see that specifically, um, in
scripture. But I'm glad that you brought it up, because there there's a
there's some illustrations and paintings out there. There's one actually called the Laughing Jesus,
and I love that because you're right, it seems that that there's not
a whole lot of depiction of me having a sense of humor. However,
it is right in front of you. A lot of people just don't see
it. Um and this kind of happens, by the way, it's it's
read. If you if you look at now modern day usage of emails,
you're you know, nowadays people use emails all the time, whereas you know,
back in ninety six or something like that, it was probably just used
for certain specific offices and inside only, and now people use it in their
everyday life and all the time. Emailing, Well, you read an email
and you put aside emoticons. Emoticons are when people type things that look like
facial expressions, using you know, colons, semi colon's, parentheses and stuff
like that to look like they're smiling. If you kind of take that away,
it's really difficult to see the emotion in what's being written sometimes, and
there's even studies that there's a lot of misunderstandings that occur because because people are
using emails more than calling, and so they'll write something and a person doesn't
understand and they read it in their own had a certain way. And that
happens with scripture as well. So, George, sometimes when you go to
church, you hear or reading from the Book of Revolution, and it's people,
there's no life in it. There's no and Jesus said, and there's
no expression applied to it, and therefore it kind of lands lifeless. But
I extend to you example of me talking and saying someone asked about about rich
people and heaven, and my response is it is easier to get a camel
through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get
into heaven. Oh, theologians have gone just beside themselves to try and figure
out Some have gone well. If you look at the ancient text, the
word for camel is very similar to rope, and I couldn't no, no,
no, no. And there's those that go well. In the ancient
days, they're around any city. There was a wall and there was a
curfew. So after a certain time, all the doors, the main doors
to the city were shut and you could only get into this very small door
called the eye of a needle, and the camel to get through it would
have to get down and no, no, no, that's even you can
even find that in some Bible encyclopedia, but it's not the case. So
that leaves this one interpretation, George, that it was sarcasm, And there's
also other sarcastic type remarks, not in the negative or ugly sense, not
a kind of smarmy or ugly way in any way, shape or form.
What it is is showing a sense of humor in teaching and using that term
because a rope would have been the profound way to say it, right,
It is easy to get a rope through the eye of a needle than a
rich man into heaven, Right, George, that would have been what you'd
assume somebody would say if they were trying to be profound. But a camel
through the eye of a needle is not profound. It's goofy. Yet it
gets the point across. But when someone reads that today, they read it
with profundity, and they read it in a tone that's a you know,
monotone has no inflection, and the assumption is that it's, oh, that
it was trying to be profound. Oh, there's there's a lot of playfulness
there in that expression. To understand the seriousness of the situation that somebody who
runs after riches will never get into heaven because you're not you're not seeking God
in truth in those things. That doesn't mean that somebody with wealth doesn't get
into heaven. It's somebody that's seeking those things, as we know, because
the scripture says that. It doesn't say that the money is the root of
all evil. If you read it correctly, it says the love of money
is the root of all kinds of evil. So all those understandings point to
the fact that there is humor in scripture, but it wasn't important to the
overall scheme of things. Again, so it's it's not highlighted in a way
that I think, you know, some people it would have stood out differently.
But if you read scripture and allow it to breathe and express itself to
you, I think you'll see that there is points of humor. I mean,
for goodness sake, look at the duck, build platypus. I mean,
God does have a sense of humor. There are wonderful things in life.
Not to mention that your sense of humor is a direct attribute of God.
Finding humor in things and enjoying those things. What the Bible frowns upon
is course jester and jesting rather and which unfortunately kicks my producer Neil out of
the game because his sense of humor has issues. But that notwithstanding, the
important thing is that humor is a part of everyday life. It was a
part of our life. Are you kidding? The thirteen of us would would
spend time together it just and have humor and enjoy one another. It just
in context of scripture and the importance of what's being taught. It doesn't really
have an important enough place to have been in scripture in that context. But
you can see it if you look close enough. You're listening to kf I
AM six forty on demand.