WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:05.759 You're listening to KF I am sixty on demand. Ellis welcome to the Jesus 2 00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:09.199 Christ Show. Yes, sir, thank you've taken the call my pleasure. 3 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:13.160 Oh. I'll go to a wonderful church and enjoy it, and I give 4 00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:17.359 a lot out of the preaching and everything. But they handle a belief that's 5 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:21.960 once save, always saved. I'm dougging the Bible and I just can't find 6 00:00:22.839 --> 00:00:27.079 anything about that. Oh you okay, So you think that salvation can be 7 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:32.960 lost? Oh? I believe if you're saved and you go back in the 8 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:37.560 sin and you would die that I don't just ano see how you can go 9 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:40.640 to heaven. Well, do you believe that you're saved currently? Oh? 10 00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:44.640 Yes? Okay? Um, are you a sinner still? No? So 11 00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:49.600 you're not a sinner anymore? You don't sin anymore? Uh? Yeah, 12 00:00:49.640 --> 00:00:54.280 I guess I do sin, okay every night? Okay, So, but 13 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:57.679 I don't get it. So you go back and forth between being saved and 14 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:03.560 not saved every day? No? Yes. The Greek word that's translated into 15 00:01:03.599 --> 00:01:11.319 English's salvation means safety and deliverance. So it's kind of a hard stretch to 16 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:15.640 believe that either it's safety or it's not safety. Now you can walk out 17 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:19.000 of the home. Let's say that there's a home that is guarded beyond any 18 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:26.879 other home. It is the most well guarded fortress in the land. Yes, 19 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:30.640 if you walk out of that house, you're no longer protected. But 20 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:38.000 with Christianity and with your salvation, there's many, many scriptures. I'd point 21 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:44.519 you to Romans eight, thirty three and thirty four. Also John three three, 22 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:49.879 Tightus three to five. All of these things are important to understand first. 23 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:57.359 But a lot of people go they go to let's say, Hebrews. 24 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.760 Hebrews chapter six, verse four, and says, for in the case of 25 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:05.400 those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have 26 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:09.159 made part bin mart been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted 27 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:13.159 the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and 28 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:15.599 then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, 29 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:22.599 since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put him to open 30 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:24.199 shame. So a lot of people read that and they say, see, 31 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:30.560 people can fall away, and they can lose their salvation. But if you 32 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:36.840 cross reference that verse right there, Ellis with Matthew twenty seven thirty four. 33 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:43.479 It talks about me on the cross and them giving me the vinegar, and 34 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:49.039 if you remember, I taste it, but I don't drink it. I 35 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:53.080 taste it, but I didn't drink it. And that's important to that part 36 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:58.400 of the gospel. But also the word therefore tasted is the exact same word 37 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:04.599 that's used here in this verse in Hebrews. And really it's about those who 38 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:07.400 have tasted, who have kind of walked up to the line and maybe gone 39 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:10.919 to church, maybe claimed to be a Christian, those types of things, 40 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:16.719 but they have never immersed themselves in the faith and never ever truly invited God 41 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:21.120 into their life. Now, the reason why they can never go back is 42 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:24.520 because they don't believe they're gone from it to begin with. They just don't. 43 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:30.599 They don't capture that. But keep in mind, above all these things, 44 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:36.199 what is it that you think you could do that outdoes the blood on 45 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:42.719 the cross? Nothing? Absolutely, So it's not about the sin. It's 46 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:46.639 about the Redeemer. And it's not about what sin can you do that would 47 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:51.599 keep you away from or take you away from God? It's what sin could 48 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:54.680 you do? That God couldn't cover with the blood of his son. And 49 00:03:55.560 --> 00:04:00.680 therefore to make the statement that once saved, always saved is a fair one. 50 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:04.919 It's a fair one. And I know that not all churches in Christianity 51 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:08.439 believe that, but it's a very fair one. And I think if you 52 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:15.520 look through scripture and you think about the true concept of being given this gift 53 00:04:15.079 --> 00:04:19.959 and that your only partner is to receive it and to understand your sinner and 54 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:25.680 to be in that constant state of repentance turning away from those things that are 55 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:29.759 not of God, that you'll understand that this gift given to you by God 56 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.360 wouldn't be taken away by God if you sinned, because that was the whole 57 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:39.240 purpose of salvation is to bridge that gap. Because people are sinners. So 58 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.759 if you miss the mark, which is what sinning truly translates to me, 59 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:46.879 and if you miss your mark, the purpose of God being there is to 60 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:54.360 get you back on that mark, not to shun you for forever. Chris, 61 00:04:54.439 --> 00:05:00.360 Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Illow Jus h want just in the 62 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:02.680 wrong way, but an about free will and all. But I wonder if 63 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:09.160 if Heaven was therfect, why a third of the angels left with Lucifer. 64 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:13.920 Okay, so in what sense are you saying, why would they not want 65 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:17.759 to be there if it was perfect? Yeah, okay, it's it's not 66 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:23.519 much different than why people reject good things on earth as well. Now, 67 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:29.199 the difference between angels and humans are are this and it's going to be a 68 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:32.279 big concept in a small amount of time. So bear with me that if 69 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.800 you can imagine a glass, an eight ounce glass, and it's empty, 70 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:41.639 that's a human when they're born, and that eight ounce glass is filled up 71 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:46.000 throughout their life with experiences and is only full at the point of their death. 72 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:51.240 So that decision that they make prior to death is the best decision you 73 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:55.920 know, or made with the best information that they'll ever have in their life, 74 00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:01.839 and therefore it's an ultimate decision. Now that that means that a Christian 75 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:06.160 can waver back and forth in their faith, but if they believe, truly 76 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:11.360 believe, and give their life to Christ right before that point of death, 77 00:06:12.199 --> 00:06:18.040 that decision becomes final to an angel. An angel, when created is a 78 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:21.519 is a filled glass. They don't come into any newness. They're they're what 79 00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:27.600 they call in theology, a fully actualized potential. So the full potential of 80 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.800 that eight ounces is given at the moment they're created. So when an angel 81 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:35.319 makes the decision, the angel makes it with the fullness of understanding, especially 82 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:39.040 being in the presence of God. They know all that they're going to know 83 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:42.600 in that context, in that way, in that form. So you have 84 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:46.399 Lucifer who's there in the presence of God, and Heaven is perfect. But 85 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:51.519 Lucifer, as it talks about in Scripture and Isaiah fourteen, it talks about 86 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:59.319 Lucifer having pride and wanting to be bigger and better than God and more important 87 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:03.199 than God. And at that point and those angels that see that agree with 88 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:09.639 Lucifer, and at that point those angels are cast out of heaven, and 89 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:14.920 Heaven remains perfect as far as the free will, because angels have free will, 90 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:19.720 it's merely a choice or a desire to be above God or that pride 91 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:27.199 that steps in that changes that relationship and changes their dealings with God. And 92 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:31.079 now no longer messengers for God. They are messengers of their own chaos. 93 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:39.439 And they are sent and now to have rain on earth and will ultimately be 94 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:46.040 put in the Lake of fire. So it's really a matter of pride stepping 95 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:48.879 in. But that doesn't speak of the perfection of heaven any more than it 96 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:54.759 speaks of the perfection of the garden of Eden. As long as if you 97 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:57.879 remember, it talks about it being good, it is good, It is 98 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:01.560 good as good, it is whole, which is where perfection comes from. 99 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:05.800 It's only when someone makes the decision to break that communion with God or to 100 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:09.680 go on their own way, that the will of God is lost and not 101 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:15.000 sought. That there is a breakdown in the order of things which makes things 102 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:18.600 imperfect. That won't happen in heaven. There won't be that you won't get 103 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:22.560 the opportunity to make that decision. Differently, when you're in heaven, you 104 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:28.199 make the decision now in the fullness of your life, and then it's with 105 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:37.080 you for eternity. Tim welcome to Jesus Christ show I thank you protecting my 106 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:41.879 call. I want to find out your thoughts and what scripture says about God's 107 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:46.120 intervention I am. The only example I can give you is reading a lot 108 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:50.639 about the nine eleven a tragedy. There was a lot of people that's fated 109 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:52.639 that they heard a voice that might have told them to go one way or 110 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:58.000 the other. Many people felt that that was God's intervention helping them, and 111 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:01.360 there was a lot of people that didn't have that or that went the wrong 112 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:07.879 way and might not have survived. And so I guess my question is because 113 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:11.159 I don't know everything about the scripture and I wanted to know what your thoughts 114 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:16.200 were. Is why do you feel or what does the scripture say about God's 115 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:20.600 interventions from possibly certain people and not other people, even though many of the 116 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.960 people probably were God fearing people and Christians and that sort of thing. Oh, 117 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:28.799 that's a wonderful question because a lot of people get caught up in you 118 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.360 know, truly, if God intervened in everything, there would be no problems, 119 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:37.279 right, you know it Just because the majority a good chunk of the 120 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:43.279 planet comes from the Judeo Christian presupposition, you're going to have a good number 121 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:46.399 of people that are listening to God. So there's a couple of things to 122 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:50.799 keep in mind. First, not everything God says is heard by man, 123 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:56.000 meaning even the believer can reject certain things that God says because it suits them 124 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:58.279 or doesn't suit them. There are many things that are told directly to you 125 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:03.679 from scripture, not even in your head, but in scripture that you know 126 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:05.919 what to do and what not to do, and people still don't do them 127 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:11.840 right the Ten Commandments. There are people that lie all the time. There 128 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:15.759 are people that steal all the time. Even people that are Christians believe, 129 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:18.559 oh, well, this isn't stealing, it's just a paper clip from work, 130 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:22.440 or they justify it. But ultimately they're using excuses. So it doesn't 131 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:30.720 mean that God isn't speaking just because man isn't listening. However, the balance 132 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:35.399 of what God does versus you know, when it comes to intervening, God 133 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:41.960 absolutely intervenes in creation, but not in the superhero type way. There is 134 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:46.679 always an exit. God will allow you an exit for things spiritual. So 135 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:50.519 spiritually, if you're in a situation where the devil's taunting you, or the 136 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:54.399 devil wants you to do something, or or you're feeling tempted, there will 137 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:58.159 always be an exit. People say, no, if I get you know, 138 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:01.360 sexually, as or I get to a point where I'm excited, there's 139 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:05.200 no way I can go back. That's not true. There's always going to 140 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:11.200 be an exit for you to downshift and relax, find a way out from 141 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:15.279 that. But in life. There's not always an exit from harm. There 142 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:22.000 just isn't. And people it's it's very easy when something good happens to you 143 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:26.320 to give glory to God. It's the case because all good comes from God. 144 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.519 So it's very easy for people to say, oh, I feel that 145 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:35.000 God led me through this path, and they may it may be more along 146 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.320 the lines of someone saying, hey, my my, you know, Dad 147 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:41.360 taught me how to be good with my hands, and when I was out 148 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:46.120 in the wild and when I got lost that one time, Um, you 149 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:50.960 know, I was able to build an a frame, fire and build shelter 150 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:54.120 and all of these things. And I really felt that my my dad, 151 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:58.360 rather my dad taught me well and he really got me out of there. 152 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.399 Now, some people may be using it like that, like tools that God 153 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:05.200 has given me to think through things and to understand has gotten me out of 154 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:11.039 there. And there's times where God legitimately reaches into a circumstance and says do 155 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:16.159 this as a way for an individual to confirm their faith and their understanding. 156 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:20.120 And there's not a specific category in scripture that says these are the times it's 157 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:24.200 going to happen, and these are the times it's not. You just know 158 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:28.159 from scripture that it does happen on occasion, and not everybody heard or not 159 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:35.159 everybody was told. And to find some sort of understanding as to who God 160 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:37.879 tells and who God doesn't that you're not going to find that. In scripture 161 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:43.080 it says that he speaks to the faithful, and that doesn't mean every time 162 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:48.799 or all the time. It just says that He does speak to the faithful. 163 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:52.639 And in this case, it doesn't mean that the person that didn't hear 164 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:56.039 it isn't faithful and that the person that did hear it is more faithful. 165 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:01.480 It's just the choices of God for whatever reason you may not know here on 166 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:09.399 this particular plane. It may be some time when you're in heaven before you'll 167 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:13.559 understand the fullness of these moves and for what reason God does those things. 168 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:16.600 But for now, just understand that it is possible, and that you should 169 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:24.360 be attentive and discerning to the voice of God. Carl, Welcome to Jesus 170 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:28.000 Christ Show. Hello Jesus Hi. My question for you today, sir, 171 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:33.279 is on faith, loss of it and the possibility of truly getting it back 172 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:37.960 or is this a situation you're living through right now, Carl, Yes, 173 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:43.200 Okay, what's going on? Well? As a child, I grew up 174 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:48.679 in church relatives that are missionaries over in Brussels, Belgium. But at one 175 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:56.440 point, whenever I switched to a different church, I was labeled a creative 176 00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:01.320 evolutionist because I believed in science and I believe in God. Okay, through 177 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:09.120 there, and won't I won't call it a tax, but through their unwillingness 178 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:13.159 to kind of help me get this work done in my own brain, I 179 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:22.559 left the church and over the years had just lost a basic faith in myself 180 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:30.559 And don't know if the ability to truly get it back and truly believe something 181 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:35.639 that you've lost belief in. And I'm just wondering your thoughts on that. 182 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:39.960 Well, it sounds to me a little bit that, doesn't it, Carl, 183 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:46.919 like you you left a bit in a pout, because I mean, 184 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:50.639 if you really believe something and it's even a little different from the church, 185 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:56.320 and you want that you know, and I say, the church in this 186 00:14:56.360 --> 00:15:01.240 case, the specific church you were going to r why not try and teach, 187 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:05.320 why not try and explain it and in the hopes of people understanding things 188 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:09.840 a little differently, or maybe you didn't really believe it. I mean, 189 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:15.440 why wouldn't you at least fight for the idea to be heard, and why 190 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:16.879 would you just give it all up. I'm not I'm not sure that that 191 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.519 is the logical conclusions. I was ostracized and I was actually asked to leave 192 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:28.000 the youth group because I was asking questions that they didn't deem proper in their 193 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:31.960 church. Okay, well that's not the church you want to be in anyways. 194 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:37.799 I mean us questions. Are you know the questions are important? They 195 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.000 were to me, yes, of course. The Bible says test all things, 196 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:45.600 hold fast to that which is true and good. And it doesn't say 197 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:48.600 except for scripture, or except for these words, or except for those words, 198 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:52.039 or except from anything that comes out of the mouth of the church, 199 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:56.039 or no, it says you want you want to you want to test things. 200 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:58.000 You don't want to use that as an excuse to never have conclusions. 201 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:03.000 These people that say, oh, you're not being open minded, it's it's 202 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:06.960 it's garbage. The truth is an open mind is like that of an open 203 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.759 mouth. Its purpose is to remain open only long enough to put something in 204 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:15.039 it of value, and then to shut it to consume it, and if 205 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.000 the brain is always open, then you're never consuming anything. It's just things 206 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:22.840 coming in and out, and there's no there's nothing that you can build upon. 207 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:26.919 So I'm glad that you're thinking, and I think it's important for you 208 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:33.240 to grow and to learn. But have you continue to ask these questions? 209 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:40.759 Have you gotten answers why uh theistic evolution is or isn't a problem? Well 210 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:42.720 back then and again this is a long time ago, because I'm forty two 211 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:45.720 now and this is when A rose ten or twelve, I believe it was. 212 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:48.399 Oh, that's been going on for a long time. Yes, in 213 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:55.440 internal conflict, Yes, try to How can I say, try to rationalize 214 00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:02.559 things for my own beliefs. I have just become and I didn't want to 215 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:07.000 become, but I have just become a see it, feel it, you 216 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:11.559 know, hear it type of belief person. Okay, So what I would 217 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:18.160 love to have the ability to truly believe in the ungraspable. Well, I 218 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:21.720 think that's a little simplistic for you, Carl, and I think you're a 219 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:23.200 little deeper than that, because I'm going to point something out for you. 220 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:33.759 Um, do you believe in uh spaceships and lightsabers and laser guns to the 221 00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:38.079 extent of in the science fiction Yes, no, in the science fiction sense, 222 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:44.400 because there's they don't exist. You realize that there's no such thing as 223 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:48.519 a lightsaber. You can't control light to only go four feet high and so, 224 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:53.880 but you can see those things, right, You can see it on 225 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:59.200 cellulide, you can see them in a film. Um, so seeing doesn't 226 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:02.680 necessarily mean leaving, certainly, not anymore. With photoshop and everything else, 227 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.079 you can create things that look real that aren't real. Right, yes, 228 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:11.599 okay, So seeing is not believing, No, no, not an vetting. 229 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:18.599 So the point being that there are you still have to use discernment in 230 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:22.960 every walk of your life. Also, love, love is immeasurable. Now 231 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:25.839 they have done tests where they can see that the certain parts of the brain 232 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:32.839 are activating during love type moments, but you can't put it in a Petri 233 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:37.960 dish. Furthermore, when it comes to past singular events, you can use 234 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:44.319 a science called forensics, and you can take a past path to look backwards 235 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:51.039 and say this is here, which notes ergo because they like using Latin ergo. 236 00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:55.519 This points to this, This points to this, and then it points 237 00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:57.640 a picture of a murder scene, for instance, and they say, you 238 00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:02.440 can't recreate the murder. It only happened once and it will only ever happen 239 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:07.440 once. So they have to use forensic science to take those evidences and piece 240 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.279 together a puzzle that gives a picture that looks and in the legal terms, 241 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:17.759 beyond the shadow of a doubt, that this is what went down. But 242 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:23.039 nobody knows. Nobody knows for sure, right, it's just this is our 243 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:27.640 best guess based on the information at hand. And that's essentially what science is 244 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:33.920 all around, not just forensic, but science is observation. And there are 245 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:40.480 even purer scientists, philosophical scientists that believe that the mere observation of the moment 246 00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:45.640 or the evidence or the instant is unpure because you're looking at it, you're 247 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:49.440 observing it, and it's causing you're causing a change somehow. So there's no 248 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:56.759 such thing as a purely observational moment or purely scientific moment. Because you play 249 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.799 apartment there's all you can cut and continue to cut this in half and in 250 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:07.680 half and in half to analyze it. So really it's about using discernment in 251 00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:11.720 life and knowing the difference between a photoshopped image and a real image. How 252 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:15.279 well you can go into the pixel configuration. You can go into all these 253 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:18.400 things. And when it comes to scripture, you're doing the same thing. 254 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.960 Faith is not something in place of reason, Carl. Faith is that tiny 255 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:30.519 percent that comes after reason that you can't know until you jump. You can't 256 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:36.599 know if that water is really water beneath you until you jump off the cliff 257 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:40.200 and land in it. You can assume because it looks like the color of 258 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:44.680 water, it's making the sound of water, it's consistency seems like that of 259 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:47.759 water that you've come across in the past. You're on a cliff. It's 260 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:51.240 very common when there's when there's something that's that color, that that's shape, 261 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:55.200 that that movement at the bottom of a cliff. Oftentimes it is water all 262 00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:57.759 these things, but you don't know until you jump off it yourself and experience 263 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:03.279 that that it really is water. And no scientist will tell you Differently, 264 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:08.319 so when you're dealing with a past singular like evolution, no scientist knows. 265 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:11.319 They're looking at pieces and they're going, well, we think this is what 266 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:15.720 it means. That's why you've got punctuated equilibrium and all these different belief systems 267 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:22.880 in within that mindset of the theory of evolution, and the concern that the 268 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:27.960 Bible has with evolution or a church wood is that in Scripture, in when 269 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:33.920 it talks about creation, it says every flesh to its own kind, and 270 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:37.799 that would be a problem with theistic evolution because if the flesh is unto its 271 00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:42.880 own kind, it mean it didn't morph or somehow come from a flesh of 272 00:21:42.920 --> 00:21:49.680 a prior kind. So therefore, theologically there's problems with the theistic evolution model. 273 00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:55.480 And it doesn't mean that science is wrong all the time, and it 274 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:59.200 doesn't mean that Scripture is wrong. It just means that the models do mesh 275 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:03.279 in a different way. Uh. And there's more studying to be done. 276 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.799 But to walk away from the Church seems like a big deal for a lot 277 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:10.880 of questions that you don't have answers to right now. Carl, Okay, 278 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:14.440 And I do apologize if I if I lean this towards evolution, because that's 279 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.920 not where I was wanting to put. That was strictly a bad evolution. 280 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:19.480 That's just kind of the name that they gave me at that time. Sure, 281 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:22.799 I'm just saying that as a bigger picture for the sake of our discussion 282 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:27.279 today is for a bigger picture. Just understand that there's more to know always, 283 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:30.119 and I just want you to take the time to study. And I'm 284 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:33.119 sorry that things went down that way. I'm not happy the way the church 285 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:40.240 responds to individuals quite often. Um. But but don't pin that on me. 286 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.200 I want to have a relationship with you, and I'm I'm hoping you 287 00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:53.039 feel the same. George, Welcome to Jesus Christ Show. Yeah. Yeah, 288 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:56.920 I just wanted to ask a question because if you can point out somewhere 289 00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.279 in the scriptures I could read possibly about a lighter side of Jesus. Nobody 290 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:03.559 seems to talk about that much. Were I want. I want to know 291 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:07.200 and believe that he laughed a lot. You know that he laughed and had 292 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.240 a sense of humor, and you know that that side of him. Um. 293 00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:11.680 Is there anyone in the scripture I can read about that kind of that 294 00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:17.000 side? You know what? You don't see that specifically, um, in 295 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:19.119 scripture. But I'm glad that you brought it up, because there there's a 296 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:25.519 there's some illustrations and paintings out there. There's one actually called the Laughing Jesus, 297 00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:30.839 and I love that because you're right, it seems that that there's not 298 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:33.400 a whole lot of depiction of me having a sense of humor. However, 299 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:36.960 it is right in front of you. A lot of people just don't see 300 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:40.160 it. Um and this kind of happens, by the way, it's it's 301 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:44.640 read. If you if you look at now modern day usage of emails, 302 00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:48.039 you're you know, nowadays people use emails all the time, whereas you know, 303 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:52.000 back in ninety six or something like that, it was probably just used 304 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:59.200 for certain specific offices and inside only, and now people use it in their 305 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.599 everyday life and all the time. Emailing, Well, you read an email 306 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:07.960 and you put aside emoticons. Emoticons are when people type things that look like 307 00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:15.200 facial expressions, using you know, colons, semi colon's, parentheses and stuff 308 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.279 like that to look like they're smiling. If you kind of take that away, 309 00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:22.839 it's really difficult to see the emotion in what's being written sometimes, and 310 00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:29.680 there's even studies that there's a lot of misunderstandings that occur because because people are 311 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.200 using emails more than calling, and so they'll write something and a person doesn't 312 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:36.480 understand and they read it in their own had a certain way. And that 313 00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:38.680 happens with scripture as well. So, George, sometimes when you go to 314 00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:45.359 church, you hear or reading from the Book of Revolution, and it's people, 315 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:51.200 there's no life in it. There's no and Jesus said, and there's 316 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:56.359 no expression applied to it, and therefore it kind of lands lifeless. But 317 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:07.319 I extend to you example of me talking and saying someone asked about about rich 318 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.960 people and heaven, and my response is it is easier to get a camel 319 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.519 through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get 320 00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:22.799 into heaven. Oh, theologians have gone just beside themselves to try and figure 321 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:27.119 out Some have gone well. If you look at the ancient text, the 322 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:32.440 word for camel is very similar to rope, and I couldn't no, no, 323 00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:36.599 no, no. And there's those that go well. In the ancient 324 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:41.119 days, they're around any city. There was a wall and there was a 325 00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:45.000 curfew. So after a certain time, all the doors, the main doors 326 00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:51.200 to the city were shut and you could only get into this very small door 327 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.680 called the eye of a needle, and the camel to get through it would 328 00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.559 have to get down and no, no, no, that's even you can 329 00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:03.119 even find that in some Bible encyclopedia, but it's not the case. So 330 00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:12.160 that leaves this one interpretation, George, that it was sarcasm, And there's 331 00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:17.880 also other sarcastic type remarks, not in the negative or ugly sense, not 332 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:22.480 a kind of smarmy or ugly way in any way, shape or form. 333 00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:30.440 What it is is showing a sense of humor in teaching and using that term 334 00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:34.119 because a rope would have been the profound way to say it, right, 335 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:40.400 It is easy to get a rope through the eye of a needle than a 336 00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:44.400 rich man into heaven, Right, George, that would have been what you'd 337 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:49.079 assume somebody would say if they were trying to be profound. But a camel 338 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:52.599 through the eye of a needle is not profound. It's goofy. Yet it 339 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:56.599 gets the point across. But when someone reads that today, they read it 340 00:26:56.599 --> 00:27:00.559 with profundity, and they read it in a tone that's a you know, 341 00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:06.559 monotone has no inflection, and the assumption is that it's, oh, that 342 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:10.759 it was trying to be profound. Oh, there's there's a lot of playfulness 343 00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:15.720 there in that expression. To understand the seriousness of the situation that somebody who 344 00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:22.119 runs after riches will never get into heaven because you're not you're not seeking God 345 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:26.079 in truth in those things. That doesn't mean that somebody with wealth doesn't get 346 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:30.400 into heaven. It's somebody that's seeking those things, as we know, because 347 00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:33.880 the scripture says that. It doesn't say that the money is the root of 348 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.599 all evil. If you read it correctly, it says the love of money 349 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:42.440 is the root of all kinds of evil. So all those understandings point to 350 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:48.839 the fact that there is humor in scripture, but it wasn't important to the 351 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:56.599 overall scheme of things. Again, so it's it's not highlighted in a way 352 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:00.480 that I think, you know, some people it would have stood out differently. 353 00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:03.279 But if you read scripture and allow it to breathe and express itself to 354 00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:07.160 you, I think you'll see that there is points of humor. I mean, 355 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.200 for goodness sake, look at the duck, build platypus. I mean, 356 00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:17.440 God does have a sense of humor. There are wonderful things in life. 357 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:22.559 Not to mention that your sense of humor is a direct attribute of God. 358 00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:29.960 Finding humor in things and enjoying those things. What the Bible frowns upon 359 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:37.079 is course jester and jesting rather and which unfortunately kicks my producer Neil out of 360 00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:45.000 the game because his sense of humor has issues. But that notwithstanding, the 361 00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:48.799 important thing is that humor is a part of everyday life. It was a 362 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:53.200 part of our life. Are you kidding? The thirteen of us would would 363 00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:59.079 spend time together it just and have humor and enjoy one another. It just 364 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.400 in context of scripture and the importance of what's being taught. It doesn't really 365 00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:08.519 have an important enough place to have been in scripture in that context. But 366 00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:12.599 you can see it if you look close enough. You're listening to kf I 367 00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:15.640 AM six forty on demand.