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And it hits me, Oh my
gosh, this is a triangle. You

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know, there's explanation for everything that
occurred in the randallshom far As concident.

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It doesn't involve aliens at all.
It was completely silent. It comes right

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over our heads. Classic. He's
also really stunning into clearly. He turned

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over to my father and held his
hand, and he looked in his eyes

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and said, We're not alone.
Welcome to podcast UFO for our live show.

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During the show, feel free to
participate live in our chat room,

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00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:37,840
and don't forget to like us on
our very active Facebook page. Hello and

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welcome to the show. I'm Martin
willishire host and welcome tonight. We have

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a great guest. Unfortunately, Alejandro
had to take someone to the airport and

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couldn't make the show. However,
we did make an attempt to prerecord earlier.

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We did talk a little bit,
so I actually want to talk about

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the conversation a little bit before I
bring on our guests. And I'm really

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excited about our guests. I myself
have had some interests in the aviation world

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in the past, and so I'm
excited to talk to Todd. Doctor Todd

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Curtis, and he has his PhD
and aviation risk assessment and so he also

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has an interest in UFOs and has
looked into the topic and it's going to

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be really exciting. I can't wait
to talk to him. So Alejandro,

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basically, when he and I were
talking earlier today, he was talking basically

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about the Bob Lazar movie. He
got a sneak preview in that movie,

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and I, you know, I
mentioned that I if I had to bet

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on one side the other whether the
Bob Lazar story was true or not all

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the way through, I'd be more
apt to doubt it than I would to

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think that it's those things really happen. Now, I'm not saying I do

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have an in mind. I'm going
to keep my mind open and I eventually

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will be watching the movie myself,
because he said that this film really makes

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you ask a lot more questions,
and he thinks it's he said, he

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was kind of like feeling the way
I do. But he's kind of put

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it in his gray basket right now, trying to decide for sure whether you

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know there's really something to it or
not. One of the things that you

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know, I'm not going to give
really a spoiler or alert, because I

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haven't seen it myself. The trailer
is great, by the way, anyone

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can find that on Google. But
you know, as far as what happens

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in the film that he says will
add some to the credibility is basically that

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there are independent people saying that they
saw Bob Lazzar in Area fifty one.

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They worked with him, one says, but he remains an honor and those

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people are going on the record with
their names as well. What also came

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up was the person supposedly that gave
him his clearance talks anonymously, voice altered

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and all that. So I always
have a little bit of trouble those type

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of interviews, whether to actually believe
them or not. So we're live.

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Anyone can watch the show every Tuesday
at six to eight pm Eastern Standard time.

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It's on YouTube. You can listen
or watch live, and it's also

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on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
People can watch it over there, and

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it's always up on YouTube, and
do check out the website. We do

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get some blogs in there. We
also have a real active Facebook page and

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you can like that and every day
it's updated. I try to update it

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on the weekends, but it's not
always done on the weekends, but anyway,

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so I am getting ready to welcome
our guest, and Todd Curtis,

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welcome to the show. Well thanks
for having me, and yes, then

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thank you for being here. And
we kind of met in a kind of

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a roundabout way. Actually, I
want to give the thanks to Ray Stanford

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because you actually contacted me and you
were looking to buy Rai's book, so

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you listened to the show and that's
how it all started. And I said,

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hey, wait a minute, you
are an air safety guy. Let's

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talk about that. And I think
it's fascinating that you have an interest in

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UFOs because it's, you know,
it's kind of a taboo subject in the

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aviation field. And I guess up, I want you to talk about your

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background, but before we actually go
there, can you also talk about have

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you had any ridicule because of your
interest in UFOs very minor, primarily through

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the things I've published on my website
in the past. I've actually had a

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interview with Leslie Hayne after a book
came out about UFOs and government documents in

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Generals This is I think twenty fourteen, and also Richard Hayes of Camp I

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interviewed him for one of my podcasts
and there was just a minor pushback,

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but nothing major. I've actually Richard's
a nice, a great guy. I'm

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at him down in North Carolina several
years ago and a real interesting guy.

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I really enjoyed meeting him and talking
to him. But he won't come on

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my show. And the reason,
you know, he's very clear about it.

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He says, you know, you
have the word UFO and the title

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of your show, and I don't
want to be associated with anything to do

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with UFOs. And that kind of
gives you an idea of how the name

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is sort of tarnished or maybe overused
and abused because you know, really it

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means a unidentified flying object, but
people do associate it with, you know,

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aliens. You mentioned the word UFO. It's just like saying flying saucers.

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You know, people are going to
be critical of the word and people

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interested in the field because they think
you're talking it's got to be aliens.

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What are your thoughts on all that, Well, it's quite simple from my

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perspective, which is my backgrounds in
aviation safety started off some years ago,

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oh my goodness, back in the
eighties as a flight test engineer in the

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Air Force, and I transitioned into
the civilian side of things, working aviation

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safety, and that was at blowing
for quite a few years during the development

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of the Triple seven. Was the
main part of my time there, and

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that's why I really developed an interest
in looking at all sorts of angles with

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respect of things that could be a
threat to the aircraft, either on the

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ground or in the sky. And
when it came to unknowns in the sky,

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well, clearly some of them are
unknown phenomena that are weather related and

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can be scientifically studied, but when
they first are noticed by people, it

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might engender all sorts of fear.
I remember reading a story quite a few

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years ago about jets and sprites,
which are basically upper atmospheric lightning. They'd

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been observed by pilots decades ago.
But it's a kind of thing where these

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pilots, primarily military, had reported
these sings. Even though these were related

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to be found scientifically valid, this
was something that had nothing to do with

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flying the airplane and had nothing to
do with their mission, and reporting that

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could put them on out of flight
status. So even if there's nothing alien

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about it, reporting something that's unusual
that has nothing to do with the mission,

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could put your career in jeopardy.
Same for the civilian world. Airline

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pilots are some of the most well
respected and also scrutinized professions out there.

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Any number of things that they do
and their personal life could come back to

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haunt them in their professional life,
and reporting on things in the sky that

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again had nothing to do with flying
the airplane, have nothing to do with

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the operation of the aircraft, has
nothing to do At the bottom line,

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it's not their interests in their interests
to do so. Would you, if

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you had to guess or theorize,
would you say that it's a very small

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percentage of commercial pilots that will actually
report it identified flying object. I would

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say it's advantagtionally small, primarily because
there's no formal process that the FA or

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the Department of Defense or anyone else
has out there that says we are an

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official agency dealing with aviation matters.
If you see something that's unusual, that

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could be a vehicle that is not
made by Boeing or Airbus and is interesting

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and unusual, please report it to
us. There's nothing like that. There

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are some ways that pilots or anyone
else in society can report things to an

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official government body, but not explicitly
for unknown phenomena such as this. You've

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mentioned Richard Haynes and in our cap
so that is one organization. Thank goodness,

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it's there. You know, there
is a place for them to go.

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But one thing, and I've had, I've had I'm trying to remember

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the main person there right now on
this show. It was actually first the

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YouTube show. He was on that
and we're friends. I just lost his

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name right now, but anyway,
great guy, and he was willing to

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be on the show even though it
was, you know, a show about

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UFOs. But I just wondered,
do they contact anyone with the reports or

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are those reports accessible, like to
say, for instance, all of a

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sudden, you know the government may
have an interest in a case. Do

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they actually contact NARCAP? Are you
aware of that? I'm not aware of

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any official government outreach to organizations like
NARCAP or the National UFO Reporting Center or

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other privately run organizations that collect colaid
and analyze unknown data, UFO data,

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unknown aerial phenomena data, call it
what you will. I know, if

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no government outreach to do that I
see. I'm sort of surprised a little

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bit because you know, there's there's
been a number of years there's been speculation

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that Moufon there's some type of connection
there with Moufon, and I know it's

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conspiratorial, but um, you know, there have been some links between the

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government and Moufon. You know,
Bob Bigelow. There's also, for instance,

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Ray Stanford, who was on the
show, we talked one time about,

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um, there was some shell company
that was funding a Moufon event that

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actually had ties to the government.
So it's it's it's pretty interesting, and

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I don't really know other than getting
data, you know, why they would

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be doing anything like that. Well, who knows? All the mysterious ways

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of government works, and government,
in my opinion, isn't some monolithic entity.

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There are all sorts of institutions,
organizations, individuals who are their own

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agendas. Some of them are consistent
with a major policy issues at the high

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level. Others could be personal interests. So the likelihood that some agent of

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government or some part of government had
some funding going to private organizations like that

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perfectly plausible. And again keep in
mind that organizations like NARCAP move on etc.

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They're private entities, they're not publicly
traded. They don't have a requirement

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to have a full disclosure of their
finances like a publicly traded company, and

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as a private company, they can
have all sorts of things that are not

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necessarily neferious, but certainly not open
to the public. Right now, how

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about your airsafe dot com? Have
you yourself been contacted by anyone about the

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UFO topic at all? Or earthly? That just the only that never happens,

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except the occasional email that might have
commented on one or two pieces of

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content I had, either on the
podcast on the website itself. But as

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far as outreach from government, the
only thing I can say indirectly looking at

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the logs of data and traffic,
that comes to Yes, there are some

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domain names that are related to large
aviation organizations and government organizations that do visit

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my website. But I keep in
mind that the vast majority of my website

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deals with airline aviation safety and security
events, only small event with the things

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that could be related to UFO.
So could some of that traffic be related

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to That could be, but I
don't have that level of detailed knowledge of

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who did what when? What do
you think about I've talked to some skeptics

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that they say that an airline pilot
is no better of an observer than anyone

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else. I disagree with that.
What is your thoughts? Well, if

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the airline pilot is observing a birthday
party of a four year old, yes,

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they'd be no different than the average
person. But when it comes to

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looking at things in the sky,
we're talking a completely different situation here.

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We're talking people who professionally study the
sky. They understand at least a little

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bit about meteorology. They know something
about the stars, what stars look like.

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It could be an aircraft if you're
not looking carefully. Satellites, for

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example, the ISS which if it's
flying over you, if you didn't know

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any better, you'd mistake it for
an aircraft. They know what things look

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like from above from below. They
know what looks normal with respect to other

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traffic. They've seen traffic. Airline
pilots, they've seen traffic at their altitude

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above and below for years. Because
flying to and fro around the world,

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there are various air routes that other
airliners take, so they would on a

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regular basis see aircraft of all types
military and civilian. So to say that

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they would not be able to recognize
something that's out of the ordinary, be

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it a natural phenomenon or something it
looks like a controlled flight of some sort

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of vehicle. That's absurd. Airline
pilots are a cut above compared to most

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other people. Have you, yourself, ever had in any type of sighting.

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There's only one time where I could
say that I had a sighting of

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something that just didn't make any sense
to me. And this was in Seattle.

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And I say this because I happened
to talk to a co worker a

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couple days later. He saw the
same event. He was about twenty miles

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south of me. What this was
was a very high flying, extremely low,

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slow moving, and very very stable
contrail. I've been looking at contrails

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all my life, and I've seen
them from large aircraft, small aircraft.

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This didn't behave like any contrail i'd
seen before. I'm not saying it was

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an unusual vehicle. It just looked
to be a lot slower than usual.

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And I thought, okay, maybe
to you two, But from where it

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was in Seattle, I was looking
to the northwest, more or less toward

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the northeast. Use the northwest corner
of the state of Washington, and I'm

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thinking, I don't have any flight
activity that's over there that would make sense.

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There is a Needal air station and
would be island north of my position.

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I would be between where this contral
was and where I was looking at

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it from. But nothing at Whidbey
Island was that kind of aircraft. I

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stood there and looked at it for
twenty thirty minutes. There's so much so

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that I said, I'm going to
see if this thing moves. I'm gonna

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look at a distant object here,
which was like a radio tower. I'm

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going to see if this contril moves
in any way, shape or form with

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this radio tower in the foreground.
And it did, but extremely slowly.

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And again I had a colleague.
I was at blowing at the time.

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I had a colleague of mine.
I talked him about He said, oh,

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yeah, I saw that too,
And I thought, if you saw

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this roughly the same angle to the
horizon, And he was like twenty miles

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south of me. This thing had
to be a fairly decent distance away.

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Was it over Canada? Was it
over the Pacific? I couldn't tell you.

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I've never seen that kind of contril
before. Since Wow, that's interesting.

204
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Now we talked earlier about the term
ufo. Is that a taboo?

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I think you mentioned in one of
your emails to me. It's kind of

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a word you didn't really let leave
your lips when you were talking to certain

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people. So that's right. Yeah. I was actually interviewed for a History

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Channel show some years ago about UFO
events related to airliners, including the japan

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Airlines at Cargo seven four to seven
in Alaska in the nineteen eighties, and

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I was trying the best my ability
to not say the word UFO during the

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interview because I thought, Okay,
if you're gonna put only seven seconds of

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00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:25,559
me out of the show and put
it out somewhere and saying, hey,

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this is what Todd Curs believes.
If I had the words UFO coming out

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00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:30,559
of my mouth, that would be
one thing. Now, if they saw

215
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,279
the entire show, they could see
it in context. But knowing a little

216
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,600
bit about how the media works,
the juiciest sound but is the one that

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ends up everywhere. So I was
very careful in that show. That's right,

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That's right, So we will.
I do want to bring up and

219
00:16:44,039 --> 00:16:48,960
talk about the ja L sixteen twenty
eight case, because that's a fascinating that's

220
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,799
one of the I think it's one
of the all time great cases out there.

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But before we do that, we're
going to be going to break in

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a short bit. And also I
wanted to ask you, with your background

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and your website and your stature so
to speak, do you have do people

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take you seriously? Like if you
actually wanted to enquire about an event,

225
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I mean, can you do you
have an ability to contact like for instance,

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the Irish you know, the incident
that happened, to have the ability

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to contact an organization and ask about
the research or something on that. I

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typically don't do that for a couple
of reasons. First, and you know

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I didn't talk about this ahead of
time with you, which which are basically

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giving an advertisement for my first book, which was called A Understanding Aviation Safety

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Data. And I wrote this based
on my work when I was in graduate

232
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school of m I. T.
And plus my work at Boing. How

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do I go about finding things?
There are so much out there that is

234
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,200
in the open waiting be picked over
that all you have to do is,

235
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in my opinion, know how to
systematically ask and answer the question. Look

236
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for those sources of data that are
reputable enough you can address those questions.

237
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So the Irish Aviation Authority, for
instance, they might be investigating event that

238
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happened a few weeks ago. Well, if a reporter comes out, I'm

239
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:17,119
sure it'll be available somewhere. So
rather than calling someone at the authority,

240
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:22,839
I'll just search their website, search
various for on the internet and if someone

241
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,759
says, hey, the report just
got published, here's the URL. That's

242
00:18:25,799 --> 00:18:30,319
my way of getting the information.
Okay. So you kind of go about

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00:18:30,319 --> 00:18:36,279
it the same way that anybody could. You don't try to use your status,

244
00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:40,160
so to speak, in any type
of way a special way. Now

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00:18:40,799 --> 00:18:44,160
and again this brings up something even
further back. I mentioned how it was

246
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,960
an Air Force flight test engineer.
Well, my last assignment the Air Force

247
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:52,680
was at the National Security Agency and
the National Cryptologic School. And one of

248
00:18:52,759 --> 00:18:56,440
the things I learned from being in
and around the intelligence community is real simple.

249
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Most of the really really, really
really good nation is out there in

250
00:19:00,759 --> 00:19:03,720
the open already. It's more a
question of knowing how to look and word

251
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,440
to look. You don't need the
fancy satellites or James Bond or any of

252
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:12,759
that nonsense. There's plenty of information
out there. Yeah, and us,

253
00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:18,400
you know, I wouldn't think we're
too far apart in age. You're probably

254
00:19:18,759 --> 00:19:23,200
quite a bit younger than me.
But we have seen the times, going

255
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:29,119
back to the analog days where everything
was you know, papers and files and

256
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,519
all that, and now everything is
available online. Have you ever, in

257
00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:40,480
any of the work that you've done
in regards to air safety use for you

258
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:45,799
for your freedom of information requests for
any documents. That's a good question.

259
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,279
I actually wrote about how to use
for you in my first book, but

260
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:55,839
I haven't myself had to resort to
that because typically, because I know enough

261
00:19:55,880 --> 00:20:00,519
institutions in the industry, if I
really needed something really obscure, simply go

262
00:20:00,599 --> 00:20:03,480
after that particular database or that particular
library, or I might even have somebody

263
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,480
in the industry who'll give me a
heads up on it. But actively going

264
00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:12,440
after foy information, I haven't had
to do that. Interesting. Wow.

265
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:18,119
Okay, so we are ready to
go to break. So my guest this

266
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:23,119
evening is Todd Curtis, and this
is Martin Willis with podcast UFO, and

267
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:29,039
we will be right back right after
these messages. Well, let's see I'm

268
00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:34,799
just going to look quickly through.
There's there's people posting some questions up on

269
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:42,559
the chat room here, and someone
there was no filming actually of the let's

270
00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:45,160
talk a little bit about the Ireland, and we can talk about that during

271
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,319
the regular show too, but there
was no filming of that in particular that

272
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,960
I heard about it. I know
there was a you know, there's a

273
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:59,640
voice recording, but there's no access
to any No one took any no pilot

274
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,440
took a pictures or film or anything
of that. As far as you know

275
00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:04,640
and my knowledge, there was no
radar trace of that either. No radar

276
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:11,119
trace, and which is interesting and
you probably know this already, but that's

277
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not uncommon for UFOs, even when
people see large structured vehicles. Well,

278
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,799
let me be more specific. When
it comes to radars used for air traffic

279
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:26,839
control, they're using primarily transponders to
get information from the aircraft, right,

280
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,119
rather than primary radar return off the
skin paint, the kind of thing the

281
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,799
military radar would use. So you
could have something fly directly in the line

282
00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:40,200
of sight of an air traffic control
radar if there's no transponder on may not

283
00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:42,599
see that aircraft at all. I
didn't realize that. I didn't realize that

284
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:48,039
the transponder was their main source.
I thought it was always, you know,

285
00:21:48,079 --> 00:21:52,039
the typical radar. So yeah,
interesting, And there's a lot of

286
00:21:52,079 --> 00:21:56,559
talk about, you know, vehicles. You know, there is no transponder

287
00:21:56,599 --> 00:22:02,799
in these these vehicles when they see
them. That's interesting. So we have

288
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,480
you know, we have three minutes
or so left in this break or just

289
00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:12,559
about that. And we didn't really
talk much about your background and what gets

290
00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:15,240
you started in the aviation field.
You want to talk a little bit about

291
00:22:15,279 --> 00:22:18,000
that again, we have a couple
of minutes left. Oh, certainly.

292
00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:22,799
I grew up in the sixties and
early seventies in Texas, and back then

293
00:22:22,839 --> 00:22:26,799
this was during the height of the
Apollo program, actually the latter part of

294
00:22:26,799 --> 00:22:30,279
the Gemini program and the Apollo program. I remember watching Gemini launches when I

295
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,279
was in elementary school. I would
have been like first second grade, because

296
00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:37,400
we're talking about sixty five or so, and like most other people in the

297
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,240
country, I was glued to the
television when the space shots happened, and

298
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,720
the astronauts in Texas were right up
there with the Dallas Cowboys as far as

299
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:51,079
how much chef fame they had,
so the fact and also to NASA's credit,

300
00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:55,400
the Public Affairs Office was very very
generous. I'm some a little kid

301
00:22:55,839 --> 00:22:59,960
nine, ten, twelve years old
writing in longhand to the Public Affairs Office

302
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,359
would send me tons of stuff,
mission reports, photographs, I mean all

303
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,000
kinds of good stuff. You know. I had jeors full of that stuff

304
00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:10,880
growing up. So that was one
of the reasons I thought, hey,

305
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,119
this might be something interesting. I
also had an uncle who was living in

306
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,960
California who was an aerospace business as
an engineer, and another uncle who worked

307
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,200
at Douglas on the assembly line.
So I didn't think that aviation is something

308
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,480
that was, you know, beyond
the realm. It's like, hey,

309
00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:27,480
I got a couple of uncles doing
this, and I know that there's a

310
00:23:27,519 --> 00:23:30,640
business out there and there might still
be some things, even though the space

311
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,599
programs sort of like wound down big
time by the time I got to college,

312
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,160
and I decided to keep on with
my interests in aviation. Learn how

313
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,440
to fly when I was in college
and grad school, and it took me

314
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:48,359
several years because I kept running out
of money. And when I went into

315
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,720
the Air Force, it was explicitly
to work in one of the aviation research

316
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:56,920
offices, ended up going to Edwards, was there for a couple of years

317
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:02,160
and worked on the F sixteen Lantern
program, which was some of the early

318
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:08,039
iterations of infrared targeting and navigation systems. And this was again eighty four eighty

319
00:24:08,039 --> 00:24:15,000
five time frame, and the stuff
they had was working great under the conditions

320
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,319
of the Mahabi Desert. It's like
if they had to do this in the

321
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,319
folda gap over in Europe for you
know, the warsaw pack coming over the

322
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,240
hill, this isn't going to work
at all. Of course, a few

323
00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:30,319
years later, the first time this
technology got his big time was in the

324
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,319
first Goal for and the whole world
saw those pictures and it's like, wow,

325
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,839
this is amazing stuff. So I
hate to say this, but that

326
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,279
was some of the greatest marketing ever
for that kind of technology on military aircraft.

327
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,440
A race. We're about ready to
go back, right, Yeah,

328
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:51,920
we're oh fifty five seconds, I'll
kill my goodness. Wow, that's the

329
00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:57,279
law. How so, yeah,
you're gonna count down all the way from

330
00:24:57,279 --> 00:25:03,640
there. So all right, the
timer going on? That so interesting And

331
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:11,400
was that hard to get an education
in aviation? No, it wasn't hard

332
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,640
at all. Again, they went
off to engineering school and I ended up

333
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,279
going to Princeton for engineering school,
and I went into electrical engineering because I

334
00:25:19,319 --> 00:25:25,319
knew enough about where things were going. Man aviation already had a big retrenchment

335
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:26,759
a few years before, and I
thought, well, gee, if I

336
00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:30,279
were to go in aviation in a
discipline where I could actually go into another

337
00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:34,119
business if I had to, you
know, what engineering would I follow?

338
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,559
And I ended up doing electrical statistical
analysis, signal processing, that kind of

339
00:25:38,599 --> 00:25:42,359
thing. All right, welcome back, my guest this evening is doctor Todd

340
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:51,279
Curtis, and we're talking aviation,
and we are aviation in UFOs and really

341
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,519
enjoying it. And I mentioned that, you know, before the we went

342
00:25:53,559 --> 00:25:59,759
into break that I wanted to talk
more about the j A L sixteen twenty

343
00:25:59,799 --> 00:26:04,960
eight case. Unfortunately, what happened
to the pilot of that situation. And

344
00:26:06,599 --> 00:26:11,960
so for the person that's not aware
of that whole case in particular, are

345
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:17,559
you able to walk us through exactly
what you know about it? Well,

346
00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:21,759
I'm going from my rapidly fading memory, but this was in the early nineteen

347
00:26:21,759 --> 00:26:26,799
eighties. It was a cargo flight
jail cargo flight in the Alaskan airspace north

348
00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:33,240
of Anchorage, and the crew noticed
several anomalous objects or a phenomena out there,

349
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:36,960
including what looked like a UFO that
was several times larger than the seven

350
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,799
forty seven itself. And they now
only saw this with their as they radioed

351
00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:45,480
into air traffic control, and they
also got in touch with the military I

352
00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:49,519
believe out of Almend Air Force Base, so you had several physical eyes on

353
00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:53,880
it as well as radar tracking of
this, and the FAY had radar tapes

354
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,119
of this, and of course they
had a lot of transcripts of what went

355
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:03,839
on. And subsequent to that event
was meeting apparently involving several branches of government

356
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,319
other than the FAA, and a
lot of this was supposed to be confiscated

357
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,559
and kept quiet, but one of
the FA managers who was there there was

358
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,119
some of the data that was not
required to be taken away I believe by

359
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:21,039
the FBI might be wrong on that, and he eventually kept that for himself

360
00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:23,759
and released that to the public later
on. So the public only got wind

361
00:27:23,799 --> 00:27:30,319
of this with respect to detailed information
about what was done on the FA side

362
00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:33,960
because this FA manager decided to keep
the data and then release it when it

363
00:27:34,039 --> 00:27:42,400
was convenient and forced. The captain
of this aircraft was put on non flying

364
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,680
duties for several years before we can
go back to flying again, strictly because

365
00:27:47,759 --> 00:27:52,880
of his role in reporting this and
being open and honest about it. Yeah,

366
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,440
that's right. And I know that
actually n our cap actually got him

367
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:02,839
reposted in his position. Actually they
fought for him and actually was able to

368
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,799
get him back in the U and
the left seat. So that uh,

369
00:28:08,519 --> 00:28:14,039
that case though, I consider it, um, you know, one of

370
00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:17,839
the best, like I said,
just because of all all the evidence at

371
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,279
least to that actually really happening,
and the description of the vehicle, the

372
00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:27,599
size and how it was tracking them. It was following them, and they

373
00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:33,559
actually they did a circle. I
believe they did a circle when they were

374
00:28:33,599 --> 00:28:37,119
told to, and the thing was
basically following around this big three hundred and

375
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,039
sixty degree circle they were. They
were doing U shaped like a walnut and

376
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,319
with smaller vehicles coming out of it. Um, you know, just a

377
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:52,359
real fascinating case. And I know
that I've heard that the pilot um did

378
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,640
not want to talk about it afterwards, and I think that's a shame that.

379
00:28:56,519 --> 00:29:00,559
Um, you know, when someone
is threatened and their job is threatened.

380
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,440
But he's probably retired now, are
possibly retired now, I don't know.

381
00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:10,359
Oh that was over thirty thirty years
ago, so I'm pretty sure he

382
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,720
was a senior pilot. He'd be
retired by now. Yeah, And I

383
00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:17,839
wonder if that's something he ever,
you know, wants to talk about,

384
00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:22,240
if anyone's ever tried to reach him. It may be difficult to do,

385
00:29:22,359 --> 00:29:26,799
but still and also one of the
things that has occurred to me about this

386
00:29:26,839 --> 00:29:30,039
case. I wonder in Japan if
this case has talked about much there,

387
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,680
or if it's even talked about it
at all. That's a good question.

388
00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:40,319
I have never even explored that.
Yeah. Yeah, So I have some

389
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:48,920
questions that came in from a listener
to the show named Carrie and Let's see.

390
00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:52,680
Um, so I'll start out with
this one here. Has the Has

391
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,359
there ever been any analysis of the
total number of UFOs sightings reported to the

392
00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:07,279
FA and NARCAP and if so,
would you know the differences between the two.

393
00:30:08,039 --> 00:30:11,839
I can speak to the FA part
of that. I've been looking at

394
00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:17,680
FA publications of all types for various
issues over the years, from laser strikes

395
00:30:17,759 --> 00:30:22,000
aircraft, bird strikes aircraft, etc. Never come across anything that's even remotely

396
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:30,160
associated with UFO sightings or unusual,
unexplained phenomena that may have affected the aircraft

397
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,960
systems or their air crew behavior.
Never seen anything like that. As for

398
00:30:36,119 --> 00:30:40,720
narcap's analysis, I've delved a little
bit into what they've done, but I'm

399
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,880
not totally familiar with the full range
of things they've published over the years.

400
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:49,319
Now I will I want to address
that because obviously there has been many issues

401
00:30:49,359 --> 00:30:55,440
that have happened. But you're saying
that does the FAA. Would you believe

402
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,799
the FAA just plane does not want
to hear about them, or would they

403
00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:03,240
just tell the pilot. Is it
possible to tell the pilot use some other

404
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,079
source of reporting if you feel like
you have to report this, Well,

405
00:31:07,119 --> 00:31:11,559
certainly when it comes reporting, they
would say that, because there isn't,

406
00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:17,480
to my knowledge, any clear program
in place to report those kinds of events.

407
00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:21,640
I mentioned bird strikes and laser strikes
aircraft. I mentioned those two specifically

408
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,240
because I've been involved in the bird
strike a world for a while and I

409
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:29,359
analyze laser strikes a good bit because
there was a very good database of that

410
00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:33,400
on the FA website, and in
my years working with the FA or going

411
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,759
to the Department of Transportation and their
research facilities, there's all kinds reports out

412
00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:42,400
there, but I've never come across
anything that deals with anything remotely like UFOs.

413
00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:48,720
Well, all right, let's talk
about for instance, we just talked

414
00:31:48,759 --> 00:31:52,279
about the ja L sixteen twenty eight. Obviously that there was a report,

415
00:31:52,319 --> 00:32:01,359
but it kind of fell short there. And then there's the hair Gate C

416
00:32:01,599 --> 00:32:07,559
seventeen incident that happened, and I
know that there was an attempt to report

417
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:14,279
that to the FAA. What happens
in a situation like that, Well,

418
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:16,039
this was a situation for those who
are unfamiliar with it, where you basically

419
00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:21,119
have some sort of view aircraft,
drowne whatever it was, it really doesn't

420
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:28,000
matter. Violating the airspace under one
of the most critical pieces of aviation infrastructure

421
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,400
in the United States. You have
something flying over the terminals of O'Hare that's

422
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:37,079
interrupting air traffic. That's a hazard
aviation. So there is no two ways

423
00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:42,039
about it. That was clearly something
that was a straight up violation of FA

424
00:32:42,079 --> 00:32:45,039
regulations. And if there was a
pilot associated with that vehicle, that pilot

425
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:50,079
would have been sanctioned, might have
had their license yank orbit. Besides that,

426
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,000
even if you're not talking about the
FA you're talking about something that could

427
00:32:53,000 --> 00:33:00,000
be a threat to the infrastructure of
aviation. That's something that is responsible,

428
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,119
believe the FBI, some other sort
of federal law enforcement, or for that

429
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,519
matter, of Chicago law enforcement.
In spite of that, I have seen

430
00:33:08,599 --> 00:33:12,880
nothing in the way of any kind
of report, any kind of acknowledgement even

431
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,759
that this was being looked at with
any seriousness by the responsible parties who should

432
00:33:16,759 --> 00:33:21,079
have been doing this. Now.
I don't want to make a joke about

433
00:33:21,079 --> 00:33:22,759
this, but if isis claimed the
next day, hey, that was us

434
00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:25,720
flying in that drone. We disguised
it so it looked like a UFL so

435
00:33:25,759 --> 00:33:29,640
we can fool you guys next time
around, there would have been a completely

436
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,599
different response. But there was no
responsible party that came forward. There was

437
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,759
no evidence of any responsible party being
associated with it. It was a true

438
00:33:37,839 --> 00:33:43,799
unknown as to the source and motivation
of whatever or whomever was flying that vehicle,

439
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,680
assuming it was a physical vehicle,
and that let's say a projection of

440
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,480
some sort. Right, also that
it went up and am Piers, the

441
00:33:51,559 --> 00:33:57,240
perfect hole in the cloud. I
don't even know how something would even do

442
00:33:57,319 --> 00:34:00,559
that, you know, maybe the
high rate of speed or something that's just

443
00:34:00,599 --> 00:34:06,359
an unusual situation, but enough people
saw that to report it as well.

444
00:34:07,319 --> 00:34:09,880
Now it's also a technological situation here. At the time, I believe it

445
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,840
was two thousand and six, this
is before YouTube. This is before everyone

446
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,239
and their brother had a smartphone with
them. If that were to happen today,

447
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:22,599
it's very likely it would be ten
dozens of people who would have not

448
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,880
only been my witness to it,
but would have had still photographs and video

449
00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:30,760
of this. And no matter what
kind of suppression any level of government will

450
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,960
try to do, it will be
out there in the wild within minutes.

451
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,400
There'll be no way to stop information, or at least knowledge of this event,

452
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,559
no way to stop that from going
out to the world. You know,

453
00:34:42,599 --> 00:34:49,880
I agree. I agree, but
not wholeheartedly because I can understand that

454
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:52,440
a lot of times when people have
a citing like something like the unexplained,

455
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,559
the last thing in the world they
think of as their phone or camera,

456
00:34:55,679 --> 00:35:00,199
but not everyone like, for instance, to fight. If I saw something

457
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,840
like that, I'd be grabbing it
from my phone but it's only because I

458
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,880
do what I do, and I
had a sighting myself. But I got

459
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,039
to tell you when I had my
sighting, my phone was not anywhere near

460
00:35:09,079 --> 00:35:15,360
me. But still I never even
had never even occurred to me because I

461
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,280
was in awe and just thinking,
what the heck is that? And I

462
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,400
think, you know, there's a
lot of talk about this subject, and

463
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:28,559
I'm glad you brought it up,
because you know, the skeptics. I

464
00:35:28,639 --> 00:35:31,840
see it a lot out there and
postings and stuff. Why aren't there you

465
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:39,039
know, tons and tons of videos
and pictures of UFOs. And I know

466
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,719
my iPhone if I try to take
something at night, it even though it's

467
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,519
an iPhone eight, it does a
terrible job. But still, you know,

468
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:50,480
that's a big question. If there's
so many iPhones out there, how

469
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,840
come we're not seeing more UFOs and
you know a lot of it. You

470
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,159
know, I try to take a
picture of a blimp a few years ago.

471
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,000
You know how slow they moved,
and I couldn't even get my phone

472
00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:02,559
out in time before it was over
Boston Common. I couldn't even get my

473
00:36:02,599 --> 00:36:06,800
phone out in time to take a
picture of it. So you know,

474
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:12,239
it just maybe flashback to a nineteen
eighty one when I took a picture of

475
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,920
a blimp with a pinhole camera of
all things. But that's another story for

476
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,320
another day. You know, this
is an ageism sort of common. I'm

477
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,360
about to make people of a certain
age they may not have their phones at

478
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:28,039
the ready. People who are younger
than that certain age have the phones out

479
00:36:28,039 --> 00:36:30,280
all the time, to the point
that annoys the heck out of me.

480
00:36:30,639 --> 00:36:34,679
I've seen more than a couple of, you know, emergency evacuation from aircraft

481
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,519
videos where the person, a young
person, would have the phone in their

482
00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:42,000
hand looking back at them running.
Oh my gosh, the phone's on fire.

483
00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:45,559
It's like, dude, wait until
you're safety away before you turn the

484
00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:50,800
camera on. So again, certain
ages of people are more apt to whip

485
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,199
out their phone for any reason or
no reason at all. So in the

486
00:36:53,199 --> 00:36:57,760
future, I think we'll have more
videos. Yeah, and you know,

487
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,480
going back to pilots, Okay,
I've been in the cockpit a number of

488
00:37:00,519 --> 00:37:06,000
times for myself. Um, not
not flying, but I mean on a

489
00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:09,320
jet. Um I had. I
had a short time where I was involved

490
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:15,800
in the aviation field. Um,
so I flew and um you can see

491
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,880
like so far out in front of
you. Um. You know, on

492
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,079
a good clear day, it's amazing. Um. How much of a visual

493
00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:29,639
capability you have up in the cockpit. Um, and you're covering a lot

494
00:37:29,639 --> 00:37:31,159
of ground. It seems like you're
going slow because you're just you know,

495
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:37,360
forty thousand feet or thereabouts. Um. But um, do you think there's

496
00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:40,800
a lot of sightings from pilots?
Would you? Would you guess that there's

497
00:37:42,199 --> 00:37:44,800
a lot of sightings. I would
say that there are a lot of sightings

498
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:49,639
of things that are unexplained, unexplainable. It could be something that might be

499
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,679
natural meteors, et cetera. And
it could be other things military aircraft being

500
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,159
tested. And again talking about let
me talk a little bit about what you

501
00:37:57,199 --> 00:38:01,159
just said. You're sort of minimizing
your experience needation. You were a certified

502
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:06,880
aviation professional, you know, had
to go through formal training, had to

503
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,639
deal with the passengers in the airline
business as a flight attendant. So you're

504
00:38:10,639 --> 00:38:15,639
an insider. So that sets as
far as how well you can see in

505
00:38:15,639 --> 00:38:20,000
the aircraft. Add another flashback.
Yeah, maybe it's an age thing,

506
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,000
and keep getting flashbacks. I was
flying a glider over Princeton. They had

507
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:27,320
a glider club there back in the
seventies when I was a student. It

508
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,239
was a very clear day. It
was about fifteen hundred feet. The instructor

509
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,559
said, Todd, I've got the
controls. Look to the left and right.

510
00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:36,840
What do you see Over my left
shoulder. I could see in New

511
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,360
York. I could see the statue
of the Arizona Narrows World Trade Center,

512
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,679
Empire State Building. Look over on
the other side, I could see downtown

513
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,800
Philadelphia. And I'm in a little
glider fifteen hundred feet above central New Jersey

514
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,719
and I could see on either side
of the state. So if you're at

515
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:57,280
thirty thousand feet, clear night,
no clouds for miles, you can imagine

516
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,159
how far you can see. Right. Yeah, I haven't. I've never

517
00:39:00,199 --> 00:39:04,280
talked about the fact that I was. Yes, indeed, I was a

518
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:09,119
flight attendant for I took a sabbatical
from the antique auction business for about a

519
00:39:09,199 --> 00:39:15,119
year and a half and I decided
to try out to be a flight attendant.

520
00:39:15,159 --> 00:39:20,639
I was with pan AM three and
UH and it was and I was

521
00:39:20,679 --> 00:39:24,599
trained for for many weeks and really
enjoyed. I loved it. Actually,

522
00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:31,639
I was actually in Guantanamo Bay when
the the Taliban were being brought in the

523
00:39:31,679 --> 00:39:36,480
first Taliban We're being brought in.
And I was there with a government contract

524
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,440
and and our plane actually had a
fuel spill and we were stuck there for

525
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:45,440
hours. It was very interesting while
they circled around with the Taliban prisoners.

526
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,920
UM. So that's going back to
UH And I was also during you know,

527
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,880
nine to eleven. UM, I
was not. I was at home

528
00:39:53,920 --> 00:40:00,360
when that happened. But the whole
airline industry completely changed. And sure you

529
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:05,679
saw that as well. Oh,
most definitely. Yeah, precautions, take

530
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,960
the plane apart, look for razor
cutters, all that stuff. It was

531
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:13,280
really really interesting. So there I'm
out of the closet. I was a

532
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,639
flight of tenor for bodyguard, and
I got to travel. I did it

533
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,360
for travel, and boy did I
travel. I had a lot of fun,

534
00:40:20,679 --> 00:40:24,159
a lot of island fun and a
lot of fun. You mentioned earlier

535
00:40:24,159 --> 00:40:30,119
about wild pilots or anyone reports something
that they hadn't. I think there are

536
00:40:30,119 --> 00:40:34,480
many, many, many good photographs
and videos of unexplained phenomena out there,

537
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,639
But for the average person, are
they going to take the steps necessary to

538
00:40:39,679 --> 00:40:43,960
put it out there, even to
put something on YouTube which is fairly simple.

539
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:45,760
It means you not only have to
have the photograph or the video,

540
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,840
you have to have a YouTube account, you have to upload it, and

541
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,039
frankly, most people are lazy.
They might be content to just show it

542
00:40:52,119 --> 00:40:55,280
to their friends. Here you love, look what I saw and taking it

543
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,519
no further than that. And if
it is on YouTube. Speaking on YouTube

544
00:40:59,559 --> 00:41:04,400
and video, there's so much fake
stuff out there from everyone's final cut pro

545
00:41:04,599 --> 00:41:08,679
or whatever kind of thing of fake
UFO pictures on the internet that just having

546
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:14,400
a video that shows what seems to
be UFO, my first thought would be,

547
00:41:14,639 --> 00:41:16,960
Okay, this photoshop or is this
real? I don't think it's one

548
00:41:17,039 --> 00:41:21,159
video. Yeah, it's not going
to get any better, but keep going.

549
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,480
Yeah, well, if it's one
person doing it, it's one thing.

550
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,880
But if you have multiple people doing
it from different angles, different kinds

551
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:35,960
of cameras, film and a motion
picture, and you have eyewitness testimon if

552
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,400
you have a whole bunch of things
together throwing their radar a return from the

553
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:43,599
FAA, now we're talking. Sure, you know one or two of those

554
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,280
might be fake, but they can't
all be fake. So if you have

555
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:51,360
some event that's witnessed by a whole
bunch of people and recorded in various ways

556
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,719
by a whole bunch of people,
stands a better chance of rising above the

557
00:41:54,840 --> 00:42:01,360
usual noise level. Yes, there's
actually been something on the dome. I

558
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:06,920
don't know if you ever saw that
ufou that recording that was recorded by several

559
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,320
people. But they planned it,
you know, that was all. It

560
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,599
was all planned in the time.
That was one of the bomb of the

561
00:42:10,639 --> 00:42:15,159
rock. Yeah. Uh, and
that's a real good one too, I

562
00:42:15,159 --> 00:42:19,639
mean, but so there are situations
where there are you know, people in

563
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,920
cahoots. But you're right, anything
on YouTube it's kind of you know,

564
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:29,559
goes opposite the justice system. It
has to be guilty to proven innocent basically

565
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,280
when you're looking on YouTube, because
there's a there's a lot of debris out

566
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:37,519
there. There's a lot of like
you said, CGI and hoaxing. In

567
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:40,119
the in the world of aviation safety, there's all sorts of events that happened

568
00:42:40,159 --> 00:42:44,760
that are extremely rare. But the
thing is they might be extremely rare,

569
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,719
but they're not one of the kind
if something happens every five or ten million

570
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,199
flights, after a while, they'd
be enough evidence. Hey, we have

571
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,719
four or five cases here now,
we're seeing a pattern. If you see

572
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:58,280
but one of the kind thing,
let's say the j EL event, and

573
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,639
you never see that again, how
can you develop a pattern out of that.

574
00:43:01,079 --> 00:43:07,199
So one of the difficulties for extremely
rare events that are also unreported or

575
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:12,639
underreported is that you may not have
a population of events or case studies to

576
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,480
make any sort of reasonable judgment off
of them. And this goes forget about

577
00:43:15,559 --> 00:43:22,719
UFOs, even when it comes to
a risk to the aviation safety. This

578
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,480
is something I did more than a
couple of times making the case that something

579
00:43:25,559 --> 00:43:30,199
is a problem that should be addressed. Not only do you have to recognize

580
00:43:30,199 --> 00:43:32,960
that happens and have to get some
sort of population of events happening, then

581
00:43:34,119 --> 00:43:37,639
you have to deal with the bureaucracy
of the situation. If you're going to

582
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,039
change how airplanes are produced, let's
say, you probably have to change the

583
00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:45,280
regulations at some point. To change
the regulations, you just can't have one

584
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,480
person screaming and how learn from the
top of the hill. You have to

585
00:43:49,519 --> 00:43:53,719
have consensus within the industry that this
is an issue they should be addressed.

586
00:43:54,199 --> 00:43:59,119
There should be a systematic way of
doing so. And once we figure this

587
00:43:59,159 --> 00:44:01,800
out, we should all agree that
we will enforce this to the letter around

588
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:07,000
the world. So it's hard enough
when it comes to something that is recognizable

589
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,679
as being a hazard to people on
board an aircraft. It's even harder if

590
00:44:10,679 --> 00:44:15,239
it's something that is not recognized as
a hazard, may not have any direct

591
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:22,239
impact on the physical operation of the
aircraft, may have an effect on how

592
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,519
people respond. Again, that's more
of a training issue. But even if

593
00:44:25,519 --> 00:44:31,559
it were that, let's say,
seeing something unusual cause air crews to behave

594
00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:37,159
that Normally, they're using procedures off
the cuff, they're making maneuvers with the

595
00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:40,519
aircraft. They shouldn't. Well in
many cases, since this is something that

596
00:44:40,599 --> 00:44:45,039
may not hit the airplane or damage
the airplane, the response might be a

597
00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:49,280
look, we already had procedures in
place for what if you see something that's

598
00:44:49,679 --> 00:44:52,679
not at your altitude but in the
vicinity, should you take any kind of

599
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,360
evasive action? Yes? Or Now, well, if you shouldn't have taken

600
00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:00,239
evasive action, if this were an
airplane and you took avasive action as you

601
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:05,000
didn't think it was an airplane,
were you doing the right thing by taking

602
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,800
matters into your own hands, or
should you have stayed with procedure. So

603
00:45:08,119 --> 00:45:13,480
yeah, it's a it's not a
simple issue, and how that issue gets

604
00:45:13,519 --> 00:45:19,480
resolved depends on the situation. Yeah, I understand all that. And also

605
00:45:19,559 --> 00:45:22,679
I know that you know, crashes
and things that have happened, you know,

606
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:27,599
they kind of have to be dissected
into how you know, and a

607
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:30,880
lot of you know, a lot
of times it's a multiple of a human

608
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,480
error, you know, one thing
after another, not following procedure or doing

609
00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:37,239
something, paying attention to the wrong
thing, or whatever it is. I've

610
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:43,039
watched some of your your videos and
how you've you've looked into that, which

611
00:45:43,079 --> 00:45:46,159
I think is fascinating too. We're
going to be going to break here shortly.

612
00:45:47,079 --> 00:45:54,320
But as far as people redirecting an
airline around something that they are seeing,

613
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:59,039
um, you know, an unidentified
object, are there any cases that

614
00:45:59,079 --> 00:46:05,840
you can think of were that situation
happened When it comes to civil aviation and

615
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,320
airliners, I can't think of anything
where there was some sort of action taken

616
00:46:10,119 --> 00:46:16,320
that merited being reported. For example, if you depart from your assigned altitude

617
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:22,199
against ATC recommendations, that's something I
would be reportable and it may even lead

618
00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:25,760
to some sort of reprimand and if
that has ever happened with respect to an

619
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,920
unknown object. I can easily see
a situation where someone violated their altitude for

620
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:36,119
whatever reason, and they would rather
take the punishment and say I did this

621
00:46:36,159 --> 00:46:38,639
because I wasn't paying attention. They'd
rather do that than say I did this

622
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:43,760
because I saw a giant walnuts shaped
thing five times the size of a seven

623
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,519
forty seven Come on right at me. Yeah, yeah, you know,

624
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:52,760
I think we can talk a little
bit about the recent Irish incident. We

625
00:46:52,920 --> 00:47:00,480
talked briefly about it, but there
has as far as you know. Do

626
00:47:00,519 --> 00:47:05,639
you think that's going to be looked
into seriously? It's hard to know.

627
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,760
There was a report that the Irish
Aviation Authority, their version of the FA

628
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:13,280
was going to make some sort of
report or look into it. What that

629
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,039
will entail that remains to be seen. And again, this was an event

630
00:47:16,079 --> 00:47:22,280
where there were several aircraft that reported
seeing something, but to my knowledge,

631
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,000
none of those aircraft did anything out
of the ordinary. They didn't have to

632
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,599
deviate from their flight plan, they
didn't have to do any sort of invasive

633
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:34,880
maneuver. There was no effect on
the aircraft systems. It was just something

634
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,960
highly unusual that was seen by multiple
pilots reported air traffic control. And one

635
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,119
part of the thing that would be
looked into, and it should be seriously

636
00:47:44,119 --> 00:47:49,920
looked into, was this some sort
of military activity or flight test activity,

637
00:47:50,039 --> 00:47:53,840
let's say, from a manufacturer who's
testing out a new design. That happens

638
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:58,400
all the time. But just because
it's a new design, just because it's

639
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,679
a proprietary or secret thing, doesn't
mean you don't follow the rules. Right.

640
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:07,400
You can't just go Willie Milly into
the airlines and run your aircraft in

641
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,199
front of airliners without telling the fa
what you're going to do. And you

642
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:15,360
know, there's I'm sure the procedures
in place for secret aircraft to do their

643
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:21,880
thing without revealing to the FAA what
exactly that aircraft is. Now, if

644
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,880
those procedures aren't being followed, well, then someone should be should be dinged

645
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:30,960
for it. Now, you just
mentioned airlanes. Are they like do they

646
00:48:31,119 --> 00:48:37,000
just completely cover like to save the
United States for instance, or are they

647
00:48:37,039 --> 00:48:40,679
in specific areas? I know there's
places that have to be avoided more or

648
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:45,559
less, but do they just spread? I know they're different altitudes and all

649
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:54,360
that that these lanes are in,
but how do they actually what's the web

650
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:59,280
like? Is it all over the
country? It's all over the world really,

651
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,840
because in the days before satellite,
let's say the data is before GPS,

652
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,679
navigation over land masses was based on
various kinds of radio beacons spread around

653
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:15,199
the country, around the world,
and you would have these if high altitude

654
00:49:15,519 --> 00:49:17,719
charts that would have not the land
masses and the rivers and such which we

655
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:22,400
see on a VFR chart, but
would have Okay, this is you know

656
00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:25,559
corrid or x, y z or
whatever. Here's the radio beacon, the

657
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:30,000
type, the frequency, et cetera, et cetera, and you would navigate

658
00:49:30,119 --> 00:49:34,239
from waypoint to waypoint. As we
go forward into the future, because we

659
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,760
have a much more sophisticated navigational system
in place, you can go waypoint waypoint

660
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:44,119
from physical waypoints based on radio beacons
of various types, or it could be

661
00:49:44,119 --> 00:49:49,039
a virtual waypoint. So depending on
where you're flying too, where you're flying

662
00:49:50,159 --> 00:49:53,119
you know from what kind of traffics
in the area and what air traffic control

663
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:58,280
can do. With two you can
do something that is a great circle route,

664
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,480
the shortest path between two differences between
two points, or you can do

665
00:50:01,559 --> 00:50:08,280
some other path So you mentioned various
kinds of restricted airspace. There's various kinds

666
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:15,159
of restrictions from VFR aircraft not flying
without IFR type equipment in certain areas,

667
00:50:15,199 --> 00:50:20,320
especially in the busy airports. You
have military training areas which may be active

668
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,800
only some parts of the day or
some parts of the year, where the

669
00:50:23,199 --> 00:50:27,719
Air Traffic Control FA, for instance, could give you the authorization to fly

670
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,280
through that. Then you have other
restricted areas that you can't do anything with

671
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:35,039
regardless. For example, try flying
over the White House. Yeah right,

672
00:50:35,159 --> 00:50:37,320
I wouldn't if I were you.
Okay, it's time to go to a

673
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:43,320
break. So my guests tonight is
doctor Todd Curtis, and we're talking about

674
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,000
aviation and UFOs. All right,
So I'm going to take a look to

675
00:50:46,039 --> 00:50:52,639
see there is a question here has
your guest this is in the chat room

676
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,840
and Beach Bomb Bob wants to know, has your guests ever looked into public

677
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:06,039
FA radar records unknown flying objects in
or around southern Catalina Island in southern California.

678
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,280
That's how where the TikTok? Have
you heard about the TikTok? I've

679
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:13,199
heard about the TikTok which came out
last year in the New York Times article

680
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:17,039
and apparently i'd been floating around there
beforehand with article. I think it was

681
00:51:19,199 --> 00:51:22,559
in the Drive that had an article
about that some months or years before.

682
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,320
Yeah, and that's it. Well, that happens on a regular basis.

683
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:30,360
You have your major media, which
on occasion has something. Then you have

684
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:34,159
non major media, independent media,
you know, websites like my own.

685
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,400
It might have something interesting tanalyzing and
whatnot, but it just doesn't catch the

686
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:42,840
attention of major media. Now,
speaking personally about my website, airsafe dot

687
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:47,440
com, I'm constantly trying to get
broader attention drawn to some issues, and

688
00:51:47,519 --> 00:51:52,400
sometimes I'm able to do that.
Most times I'm not right right, Okay,

689
00:51:52,679 --> 00:51:59,440
just looking to see if there's any
other questions up here in the chat

690
00:51:59,519 --> 00:52:02,719
room here for you. Let's see, we're going to be taking calls after

691
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:10,559
this break, and let's see lots
of stuff in the but I'm not seeing.

692
00:52:10,559 --> 00:52:15,400
Oh, here's a question right here, what do you think about the

693
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:21,360
recent Ireland sighting. Well, we
were just talking about that and people are

694
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,559
saying though that they are a few
astronomers are saying they think it's an astronomical

695
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:30,920
event like a media or something,
But according to what I've read about it,

696
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:36,639
it doesn't seem to behave like that. So well, I'll hold up

697
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:40,480
that there might be some astronomical phenomena
that we're simply not aware of that doesn't

698
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:45,239
behave like metris, and that may
behave in the fashion we just saw.

699
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,320
And again, it may be something
physical, it may be something not physical.

700
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,320
Is this some sort of electrical magnetic
phenomena that's going on? You know,

701
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:59,199
ball lightning, you know, and
then some who knows. I'm not

702
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:06,079
a scientist of atmospheric things like that, but certainly there are some energetic events

703
00:53:06,119 --> 00:53:10,239
from bowl lightning to jets and sprites, other kinds of electromagnetic phenomena which a

704
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:15,239
card in nature, which are either
not very well understood or not very well

705
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,880
observed. Yeah, I think you
mentioned sprites, and you mentioned that earlier.

706
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,880
Those are really bizarre for the person
that's unaware of exactly what they are.

707
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:30,400
They're actually lightning that goes up and
it has been observed actually by the

708
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,760
International Space Station too, I believe, haven't they've seen sprites as well?

709
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:37,760
Yes, indeed, and I believe
there are specific experiments flown in either eighties

710
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:42,199
or the nineties on the Space Shuttle
to study that very thing, and scientists

711
00:53:42,199 --> 00:53:45,880
on the ground who'd been able to
study it as well, and where it

712
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,280
goes that you know, you think
of lightning striking the ground, it makes

713
00:53:49,599 --> 00:53:52,599
you know the reason it's on its
way to the closest object, you know,

714
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:58,599
to ground out. But do they
know why these where these things are

715
00:53:58,639 --> 00:54:01,079
going, why they're going up,
and what makes them start and stop?

716
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:05,760
I haven't read enough into that to
be able to answer that, but I

717
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:07,360
do know that those are open questions. For example, if you see a

718
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,920
jet or sprite going up, what
kind of cloud to ground or cloud to

719
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:15,719
cloud lightning might be happening simultaneously with
that, And would it be different in

720
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:20,159
character from your run of the mill
lightning? Okay, they did they teach

721
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,679
pilots when they're training them, as
far as you know, do they teach

722
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:30,199
them about things like ball lightning?
And you know atmosphere in my training as

723
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,239
a private pilot, in my time
as a flight test engineer in the military,

724
00:54:32,599 --> 00:54:37,480
that sort of thing didn't come up
at all. The things that well,

725
00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:43,480
I would say aerospace physiology was the
thing that we got a lot of

726
00:54:43,639 --> 00:54:46,039
formal training and or at least,
you know, having an idea of that

727
00:54:46,119 --> 00:54:50,239
sort of thing, the effects of
apoxia, that sort of thing, and

728
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,159
the fact that you could have a
for example, I can't remember the name

729
00:54:53,159 --> 00:54:55,519
for it, you could have a
stationary light out there. But if you

730
00:54:55,519 --> 00:55:00,199
have a dark background and no other
you know, way of judging where it

731
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,119
is, if you're sitting still,
you might think the lights moving. So

732
00:55:04,159 --> 00:55:07,480
there's all sorts of optical illusions that
can happen in the sky, especially at

733
00:55:07,559 --> 00:55:13,400
nine. All right, welcome back
everyone. My name is Martin Willis.

734
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:19,679
My guest tonight is doctor Todd Curtis, and we are talking aviation safety and

735
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,440
UFOs. We haven't really gotten into
a lot of UFO cases, and I

736
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:27,800
think it's fascinating to hear your thoughts
on them. But also I do want

737
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:34,199
to let everyone know that we are
open for calls, So if you want

738
00:55:34,199 --> 00:55:37,920
to call in, please do.
Someone was listening to one of my shows

739
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:43,440
today on YouTube and saw the call
in number and started calling me at two

740
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:49,559
o'clock in the afternoon. So just
keep in mind this show is this show

741
00:55:49,679 --> 00:55:53,679
number that is is only live or
only usable during the show itself, and

742
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:59,280
that number is six h three nine
six seven four h three. Oh,

743
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:06,840
if anyone wants to a call in, what would you consider the most besides

744
00:56:07,519 --> 00:56:14,239
the ja L case, most significant
case involved and you know our UFL was

745
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,679
involved. And when it comes to
airline safety, Oh, I think hands

746
00:56:17,679 --> 00:56:22,519
down would have to be the Phoenix
Light of Lights event. That's something where

747
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:28,000
you not only had eyewitnesses, you
had you know, clear evidence of people

748
00:56:28,039 --> 00:56:32,039
who should know better covering up during
the event itself. Specifically, the governor

749
00:56:32,039 --> 00:56:36,159
of Arizona, who I believe was
five Symington at that time, who was

750
00:56:36,199 --> 00:56:38,800
a former Air Force pilot at the
time of the event. I remember him

751
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:43,159
giving a press conference where he was
like, you know, blowing off the

752
00:56:43,199 --> 00:56:45,280
idea and making a joke out of
it, bringing some guy in an alien

753
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,760
mask out in front of the press
and saying, hey, guys, you

754
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:52,079
know, take it easy on this. All years later, he was on

755
00:56:52,119 --> 00:56:54,400
camera and I can't remember which movie
it was, where he basically said,

756
00:56:54,440 --> 00:57:00,239
yeah, I saw this thing when
it happened. So here it was a

757
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:05,360
government official government of Arizona at the
time, who was involved for whatever reason

758
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,880
and squelching what was going on.
Now what went on, I don't know,

759
00:57:10,039 --> 00:57:14,239
and anyone who says they know,
please have them call us. But

760
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,280
if you have something that is seen
from the ground and from the sky,

761
00:57:17,519 --> 00:57:22,800
from several different directions, from many
different people, and it's over a wide

762
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:30,519
area of a major metropolitan area,
the potential for aviation safety is obvious.

763
00:57:30,519 --> 00:57:32,320
Clearly, if you were a pilot
on the ground or in the sky and

764
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,719
you saw something like this, you
wouldn't need air traffic control to tell you

765
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,039
not to run into the thing,
but certainly you could have other effects going

766
00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:45,559
on that would all For example,
and again I'm just speculating off the top

767
00:57:45,599 --> 00:57:51,159
of my head, what if you
have something that is unknown over major metropolitan

768
00:57:51,199 --> 00:57:54,679
area and you call out NORAD the
F fifteens in the case of Seattle not

769
00:57:54,719 --> 00:57:59,400
too long ago, and someone stoole
an aircraft from seatach and they show up

770
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,760
in the area and they see something
that looks to be hostile and they shoot

771
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:06,400
at it. It's not the UFO
quote unquote, but maybe some pilot who

772
00:58:06,639 --> 00:58:10,480
got in the way. So the
potential exists if you have a confusing situation

773
00:58:10,559 --> 00:58:16,840
like this that decisions could be actions
could be taken that could put aircraft and

774
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:22,199
people on them at risk. That's
right, and there was an Air Force

775
00:58:22,239 --> 00:58:28,519
pilot supposedly, I don't know the
details in this, that actually flew up

776
00:58:28,519 --> 00:58:30,880
to take a look at the object. I don't know if you heard about

777
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,519
that. I don't. I didn't
hear about that. Yeah, purportedly was

778
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,480
scared out of his mind and uh
didn't want to talk about it and was

779
00:58:38,559 --> 00:58:45,000
really really shaken up. And you
know, there's there's the possibility of that

780
00:58:45,039 --> 00:58:50,599
thing being miles wide, you know, and what type of craft. You

781
00:58:50,639 --> 00:58:52,880
know, a lot of people have
mentioned that they believe it was probably some

782
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:57,679
type of government experimental craft, and
I don't. I can't really buy that

783
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,039
argumentum for umber of reasons. We
have a call coming in. I'm going

784
00:59:01,079 --> 00:59:07,960
to take it and hang on just
one second here. Okay, caller,

785
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:14,119
you're on with us at podcast UFO
and what's your first name? Where are

786
00:59:14,119 --> 00:59:17,800
you calling from? Well, thank
you very much. I'm Malcolm from Proper

787
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:22,599
good Or, Florida, and I
would like to ask your just a question.

788
00:59:22,119 --> 00:59:30,679
Sure, Okay, have you ever
heard of a UFO stopping an aircraft

789
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:36,039
engine in mid flight the way they
are reported to stop a car engine?

790
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:39,840
Now, as a matter of fact, that I haven't heard, and speaking

791
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:45,559
for large shed engines, especially having
an engine shutdown in fly for any reason

792
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:50,960
is a very rare event, and
so much so that if it happens,

793
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:52,960
it would be of high interest,
if not to the FAA, then to

794
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:58,199
the engine manufacturer. So I would
follow up that question by saying this,

795
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:04,400
if there is any group I would
have information about unusual stoppages of aircraft engines

796
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:12,679
in flight, it would be the
aircraft engine manufacturers. Okay, thanks you

797
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,599
very much. That's it all right, Malcolm, thanks for the call.

798
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:20,840
And further on that, if it's
a proprietary information that doesn't have to report

799
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,800
it to the FA or the equivalent
organization overseas, it could very well be

800
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:30,159
something they keep under their head for
decades, because again a private company that's

801
01:00:30,199 --> 01:00:37,199
in a heavily regulated industry, they
obviously have to adhere to regulations when the

802
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:40,519
regulations exist. If there are no
regulations to report a particular event, it

803
01:00:40,599 --> 01:00:47,760
may never be reported. I'm sure
you've heard there has been a military situation

804
01:00:49,199 --> 01:00:54,119
on back in the seventies were the
craft was disabled for a moment until I

805
01:00:54,119 --> 01:00:57,880
think it had a lock on or
something, and it was the whole craft

806
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,000
was disabled and then and then basically
came back on again. You know,

807
01:01:02,039 --> 01:01:06,480
you're talking about the Tehran event and
that's seventy yeah, six, I think

808
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,559
it was. Yeah, I was
in the seventies. So you've done you've

809
01:01:09,559 --> 01:01:14,719
done your research. You seem to
know quite a bit about well, when

810
01:01:14,719 --> 01:01:17,239
it comes to bizarre things that happened
to aircraft, I tend to perk up,

811
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,920
no matter what the reason is for
this. In fact, one of

812
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,960
the things that I came across which
I found very found very interesting Martin Cayden,

813
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:29,719
who was the author behind six Million
Dollars Man, I had a book

814
01:01:29,719 --> 01:01:35,840
of short stories of extremely bizarre things
that happened to aviators or aircraft, from

815
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:40,039
you know, ghost airports to things
in the sky. It's like, this

816
01:01:40,119 --> 01:01:44,039
is a you know, this is
too weird to be fiction. And where

817
01:01:44,039 --> 01:01:45,880
did this guy get this stuff from? You know, he created the six

818
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:49,880
million dollars Man understand that, but
this stuff was even well beyond that.

819
01:01:51,199 --> 01:01:52,960
And he said it was like,
you know, true tales that you're reporting,

820
01:01:53,039 --> 01:01:55,760
not fiction, any made up.
I can't remember the name of the

821
01:01:55,760 --> 01:02:00,119
book off And though yeah, you
know, there's also there was an Australian

822
01:02:00,159 --> 01:02:05,239
case of a young pilot. I
actually have a blog on my website about

823
01:02:05,239 --> 01:02:08,320
it. But that was a private
pilot. Do you pay attention to any

824
01:02:09,159 --> 01:02:15,199
you know, smaller plane, you
know, private planes in issues. I

825
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,239
pay attention to them when they come
to a public prominence and they may have

826
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,800
an impact on safety or security.
For example, I'm one of the ones

827
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:28,800
that I really paid attention to,
not because of it had any major thing

828
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,320
to do with aviation safety and security, but it spoke more to the privacy

829
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:36,079
of a pilot. This is Harrison
Ford when he had that crash and as

830
01:02:36,159 --> 01:02:38,719
a World War two trainer near the
same amount of airport a few years ago

831
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:42,679
on a golf course I believe,
right on the golf course, which was

832
01:02:42,719 --> 01:02:45,800
a spectacular piece of flying. I
mean, if he were an average pilot,

833
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:47,199
he would have been dead. But
the thing that really struck me is

834
01:02:47,199 --> 01:02:52,639
the NTSB had a public docket on
that event that was like a major airline

835
01:02:52,639 --> 01:02:58,199
crash, very very detailed. You
to the point that an average private pilot

836
01:02:58,199 --> 01:03:01,199
who gets in an accident, they
might have one line something in the NTSB

837
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:07,039
saying Cessna one two three four crash
and the pilot was seriously injured. Harrison

838
01:03:07,119 --> 01:03:12,280
Ford had several dissertations worth of stuff. So that speaks to if the government

839
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:16,239
is responsible for paying attention to things
that really have an impact on safety and

840
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:20,880
security, why the heck are they
paying attention to Harrison Ford, who you

841
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,639
know, to his credit, he
wasn't killed. This had nothing to do

842
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:29,800
with current production aircraft. It had
no major effect on traffic flow in Los

843
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,960
Angeles. It was just something he
just felt. They just felt compelled to

844
01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:38,199
study to a very great degree.
Do that tool a Chicago Evan an O

845
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:43,880
Harrivan, Please don't do it to
Harrison Ford. Wow. Yeah, that's

846
01:03:44,039 --> 01:03:47,519
that's really interesting. Let's see.
Another question that came in is how does

847
01:03:47,559 --> 01:03:52,480
the FAA deal with unknown targets showing
up on radar within US airspace? And

848
01:03:52,599 --> 01:03:59,079
do the unknown targets get handed off
to the military to deal with or I

849
01:03:59,159 --> 01:04:03,719
believe you kind of mentioned that a
lot of things are not too well looked

850
01:04:03,719 --> 01:04:06,679
into with the FAA. So I
don't know even know if there's that question

851
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:12,159
can be answered. Well, I
can't speak to the detailed procedures that happened

852
01:04:12,159 --> 01:04:15,840
inside the control centers there. I've
talked to a few controllers over the years,

853
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:20,360
and certainly things come up that aren't
identified For example, they might have

854
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:26,239
a transponder code that was what they
might ask them to change the transponder code

855
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,800
so they can identify the aircraft.
Well, if the aircraft changes the code

856
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:31,599
and they see that on the radar, it's like, okay, we have

857
01:04:31,639 --> 01:04:36,199
communication involved with this pilot, and
even with this pilot supplying the wrong way,

858
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:40,679
at least they're responding to us.
If they give a command to change

859
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:44,400
the transponder code and there's no change
of the transponder code, they might say

860
01:04:44,519 --> 01:04:47,840
themselves, Okay, what's the problem
here. Is this someone who's deliberately doing

861
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,440
something? Is this someone who's just
lost? Is this none of the above

862
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:56,840
to be called Nora D? What
do we do here? So that's a

863
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:00,920
situational sort of thing. It depends
on the aircraft, depends on where where

864
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:05,239
there was not only the people in
the cockpit saw this UFO, but the

865
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:10,960
passengers did. So that kind of
leads me. I want to talk about

866
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:15,199
the Channel Islands. But also do
you know of other cases where there were

867
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:19,599
passengers involved in US in a sighting. I can't think of one I had

868
01:05:19,599 --> 01:05:24,000
involved passengers. When I came to
mind, very briefly, was a America

869
01:05:24,119 --> 01:05:28,480
West event I think it was nineteen
ninety five over the Southwest where the crew

870
01:05:28,599 --> 01:05:31,960
definitely saw something and I can't recall
that report if the passengers also saw something.

871
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:36,320
But as far as other than the
Channel Isolds event which you just mentioned

872
01:05:36,599 --> 01:05:43,199
where there's some apparently miles long object
or something seen at some distance from the

873
01:05:43,199 --> 01:05:49,320
aircraft, I can't think of any
recently or both pilots and passengers had an

874
01:05:50,039 --> 01:05:54,679
eyeboat, eyeball with whatever was out
there. Well, let's talk about the

875
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:59,800
Channel Island for those people on YouTube. I'm just bringing up a graphic on

876
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:05,079
that situation. Now, that's a
seems to be a very very credible situation.

877
01:06:06,079 --> 01:06:10,599
Can you can you explain to the
listener exactly what happened? Well,

878
01:06:10,639 --> 01:06:13,639
I better be able to do that
because I believe back in two thousan fourteen

879
01:06:13,719 --> 01:06:16,719
or fifteen, I was actually at
the other TV show on that with one

880
01:06:16,719 --> 01:06:19,880
of the I think it was one
of the History Channel ones. If you

881
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:23,440
give me a minute, I can
actually pull up my notes from that because

882
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:28,119
I made extensive notes for that show, and this was a Channel Islands was

883
01:06:28,199 --> 01:06:32,239
fairly small aircraft, one of these
smaller than a commuter airliner. So the

884
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,079
passengers could see the cockpit. It
was like one of these you know,

885
01:06:35,119 --> 01:06:40,159
four sixth seeders. The Channel Islands
are a couple of small UK islands just

886
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:44,880
off the French coast in the English
Channel. Let's see, and this is

887
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:53,400
like a triple engine, uh something
Triland or something. Yeah, two thousand

888
01:06:53,400 --> 01:07:00,480
and four. It was a Smithsonian
Channel and this pilot and is seeing something

889
01:07:00,519 --> 01:07:09,079
that looks like big yellow he almost
like a big yellow bus. It was.

890
01:07:09,159 --> 01:07:12,199
It was larger than the bus.
We're talking something that was you know,

891
01:07:12,719 --> 01:07:16,599
up to a mile exactly. Yeah. And of course right when I

892
01:07:16,639 --> 01:07:19,920
need to pull up the computers getting
me all kinds of hassles here, that's

893
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:27,639
all right. So just from memory, you know that I forget exactly how

894
01:07:27,639 --> 01:07:31,519
many passengers, but everyone saw it, absolutely and it was reported to the

895
01:07:31,599 --> 01:07:35,880
requisite authorities, and the pilot was
even interviewed on television more than once.

896
01:07:36,119 --> 01:07:40,400
So this wasn't something that was hidden. It was also something where I saw

897
01:07:40,519 --> 01:07:43,960
no real follow up to it.
That is, was there an explanation from

898
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,159
the Civil Aviation Authorities in Britain or
the AIB, which is their equivalent of

899
01:07:47,199 --> 01:07:53,639
the NTSB. I've seen nothing about
this subsequent to that, do you happen

900
01:07:53,679 --> 01:07:56,760
to know in particular. I haven't
looked into that case in a long time,

901
01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:00,440
But do you know in particular if
those were there was two of them,

902
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:05,239
I believe, were they moving objects? Did they see them take off

903
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:10,000
or anything like that? I don't
recall if they saw them in motion or

904
01:08:10,039 --> 01:08:17,199
in flight? And do you know
approximately how long that sighting lasted? It

905
01:08:17,239 --> 01:08:20,239
was on the order of minutes,
not seconds. And again I can't remember

906
01:08:20,239 --> 01:08:24,600
that the details of it later on
in the show, if I can pull

907
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,079
this up, out'll get back to
you on that, because again I did

908
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:30,640
make notes about that over four years
ago, and I don't want to go

909
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,039
on my memory too much beyond that, except to say that here was a

910
01:08:33,079 --> 01:08:38,279
situation which had it happened in the
US, I have a feeling that the

911
01:08:38,319 --> 01:08:43,800
pilots would have been far more reluctant
to report this to the public. For

912
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:48,439
example, this pilot, I saw
nothing about his career being in any way

913
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:51,880
impacted by the fact that he saw
this. Do you think that it helped

914
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:59,119
him that he had witnesses that were
passengers? Oh? Absolutely, this is

915
01:08:59,159 --> 01:09:01,920
not something that they could pass office. This person has some sort of sorry

916
01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:10,960
I'm having trouble understanding right now.
Later, I should have unplugged my Alexa.

917
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:16,000
All right, Alexe stop. Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding right now.

918
01:09:16,119 --> 01:09:18,960
Okay, that happens a little later, that happens again. I'm gonna

919
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:23,800
uplugged the thing. Well, I've
always heard we'd be taken over by artificial

920
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:28,880
intelligence, so it's it's beginning.
Yeah, it's artificial I don't know if

921
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:38,319
it's intelligence and what. Some other
notable cases I believe I sent you a

922
01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:42,880
link to one in Arizona. I
don't know if you'd looked into that one

923
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:45,840
in the Organs, the organ one
that happened just a few months ago.

924
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:53,399
This was a high flying aircraft or
some sort of vehicle that was going between

925
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:57,640
northern California southern Oregon, going up
towards Washington State. And this is something

926
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:01,279
where there are several high flying airliners
who saw this, apparently from their estimate,

927
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:08,039
only several thousand feet above their flight
altitude and in the same general direction

928
01:10:08,079 --> 01:10:12,119
as north south traffic on the West
coast. And this is something where and

929
01:10:12,199 --> 01:10:16,079
again the air traffic controllers didn't have
any kind of transponder code on this thing.

930
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:19,960
If this were a military aircraft.
If this were a private company that

931
01:10:20,039 --> 01:10:25,359
had some sort of test vehicle,
it would be let's just say, the

932
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:30,119
height of irresponsibility to fly it in
or near a quarter that's occupied by airliners

933
01:10:30,119 --> 01:10:33,640
without telling air traffic control, without
clearing this ahead of time with the FAA.

934
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:38,319
So could this have been some rogue
op writer who is operating some vehicle

935
01:10:38,399 --> 01:10:44,079
up there. Certainly it could.
But let's just say that the level of

936
01:10:44,119 --> 01:10:47,119
technology and effort it takes to get
an aircraft in the stratosphere means that you're

937
01:10:47,319 --> 01:10:51,520
not going to have a single person
fuel this up, maintain the aircraft,

938
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:56,199
and get it up to altitude.
If this were some sort of conventional vehicle,

939
01:10:56,680 --> 01:10:59,800
there had to be a group of
people or some organization involved to get

940
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:03,079
that airplane where it was. If
it wasn't, if this was some sort

941
01:11:03,079 --> 01:11:06,840
of natural phenomena, well, it
certainly didn't act like any natural phenomena I

942
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:10,560
know of in the sky. Didn't
act like a meteor, didn't act like

943
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:15,399
a ball, lightning, didn't act
like anything that made sense given the verbal

944
01:11:15,399 --> 01:11:19,800
descriptions by these airline pilots. All
right, now I'm gonna I'm gonna go

945
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:24,319
out on a limb and ask you
a question here and that you may be

946
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:32,079
hesitant to answer. Do you think
it is a possibility that we are we

947
01:11:32,159 --> 01:11:42,319
might be visited from another intelligence.
Certainly possible, but again it's possible doesn't

948
01:11:42,319 --> 01:11:45,479
mean it's likely, doesn't mean it's
one hundred percent certain that's happened in the

949
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:50,239
past or that could happen in the
future. Certainly, one could project the

950
01:11:50,279 --> 01:11:55,880
fact that there are billions of galaxies, not even to mention planets that are

951
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:59,920
out there, and that already in
the past ten to fifteen years, very

952
01:12:00,079 --> 01:12:05,079
scientists have seen dozens, if not
hundreds of extrasolar planets. It is planetary

953
01:12:05,159 --> 01:12:10,760
bodies orbiting around the Sun other than
their own that are out there. Some

954
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:14,399
of them are even in what they
hold a habitable habitable zone. That is,

955
01:12:15,239 --> 01:12:18,920
given the solar radiation string coming off
of the star and the distance from

956
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:26,000
that planet, it's the kind of
distance that could possibly allow an atmosphere like

957
01:12:26,119 --> 01:12:30,920
Earth to exist. So certainly life
could be existing elsewhere as we know it

958
01:12:31,199 --> 01:12:36,000
now. Intelligence, that's a broader
question. What constitutes intelligence. We just

959
01:12:36,079 --> 01:12:41,600
had Alexo a few minutes ago,
so to interrupt our conversation, said the

960
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:50,800
name I'm having trouble understanding right now. Obviously it is intelligence quote unquote if

961
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:55,399
you can define it as such,
especially if you're trying to sell stock in

962
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:59,840
this company, that's not necessarily an
intelligence that would respect or would fear.

963
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:06,239
Does an intelligence like that exists?
Possibly? Is there cybernetic kinds of intelligences

964
01:13:06,279 --> 01:13:12,680
that exist right now on Earth in
a corporate sort of environment, or with

965
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:17,640
things like the system I can't mention
because it'll start responding, or similar systems

966
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:23,079
from Google. Yeah, but is
it an intelligence? I could fly some

967
01:13:23,119 --> 01:13:30,640
sort of aerospace vehicle have no clue. A number of I guess skeptics,

968
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:33,880
And I would say skeptics with the
you know, like it's a bad word.

969
01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:40,279
I think it's good to have skepticism
and to look at something, you

970
01:13:40,319 --> 01:13:45,560
know, objectively instead of just you
know, buying into you know, the

971
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:50,680
fact that it's alien or whatever.
But some skeptics will kind of go the

972
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:56,199
other way a little bit too strong
and just say that. I had one

973
01:13:56,279 --> 01:13:59,359
on this show, Roger Nigard a
few years ago, as a filmmaker,

974
01:14:00,039 --> 01:14:02,840
and he was on and he said
that he thinks one hundred percent of the

975
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:10,319
UFOs that are seen are you know, secret military craft. Do you think

976
01:14:10,399 --> 01:14:13,119
that you know, I mean,
I think it's very possible that some are.

977
01:14:14,039 --> 01:14:19,239
But do you think that there's possibility
of a lot of you know,

978
01:14:19,359 --> 01:14:28,000
unknown aircraft being linked to the military
or or like you said, private contracts.

979
01:14:28,039 --> 01:14:30,520
It's very easily to speak to the
secret military aircraft. The answer is

980
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,479
it's not one hundred percent, because, as you just mentioned, sometimes you

981
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:38,880
have a private contractor who on speculation
builds something that they're trying to sell the

982
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:42,920
military. It's not a military aircraft. It's not even a developmental aircraft of

983
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:45,760
the military if there's no contract sign
So now, and there have been these

984
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:49,159
things in the past, So now
one hundred percent of these unknowns are not

985
01:14:49,319 --> 01:14:55,600
military aircraft or military projects. Could
they be projects made by human beings?

986
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:59,880
I would say a good fraction of
the Manor would I say, Andrew,

987
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:04,800
Now, because there are some things
that are out there that turns out to

988
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:09,279
be not vehicles. For example getting
back the jets and sprites. Again,

989
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:13,159
that wasn't a lightning type of event. But let's say you have somefents more

990
01:15:13,199 --> 01:15:17,319
like ball lightning that somehow, for
whatever reason, behaves in a manner consistent

991
01:15:17,319 --> 01:15:21,279
with some sort of lighted craft for
some period of time. You can point

992
01:15:21,319 --> 01:15:25,439
to that and say, hey,
this looks just like a secret military aircraft

993
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:29,720
with some plasma around it. Now
it's ball lightning. So I wouldn't say

994
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:33,399
a hundred percent on that. Do
I have any evidence to say that sixty

995
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:40,840
percent and ten percent? I don't, simply because what I call the numerator

996
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:45,000
and denominator problem. We don't have
the numerator. We don't have the total

997
01:15:45,119 --> 01:15:50,319
number of events that are anomalous.
We don't have the denominator the total number

998
01:15:50,319 --> 01:15:56,600
of events including the anomalous ones.
There could be many secretive military aircraft flights

999
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,800
that happened that we don't know about, so it won't be in then.

1000
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:04,760
So now we have no real way, in my opinion, of making a

1001
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:10,960
reasonable estimate as to what fraction of
these or military aircraft or military programs.

1002
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:15,560
Good answer, thank you. UM
So, I want to just take a

1003
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:18,760
little sidestep just for a few minutes
here, and I want to talk about

1004
01:16:19,319 --> 01:16:28,239
um I want to talk about airline
safety and c and in general, because

1005
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:30,479
I know that you know, over
the years it's it's getting better and better,

1006
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:36,760
but when you hear about a crash, everybody knows about it. But

1007
01:16:38,039 --> 01:16:42,279
currently, like, on any given
day, how many flights would you say

1008
01:16:42,279 --> 01:16:45,760
there are around the world? Would
you be able to throw out some ballpark

1009
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:56,920
stats for us? Boy, I
would be able to throw All right,

1010
01:16:58,079 --> 01:17:03,960
it's not on my end. Hang
on. Everyone looks like it's like his

1011
01:17:04,079 --> 01:17:14,319
skype is frozen, ringing through to
his skype. So caller, thanks for

1012
01:17:14,399 --> 01:17:16,920
calling in. What's your first name? Where are you calling from? Ah?

1013
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:21,880
This is Linda from New York.
I thought maybe i'd provide you with

1014
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:28,319
some information while you're hanging there.
Is this the Linda? This is the

1015
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:30,720
Linda. Yes, how are you
good? Can I say? Do you

1016
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:34,199
mind if I say your full name? Oh? Absolutely, no problem.

1017
01:17:34,239 --> 01:17:38,000
All right, this is Linda Simmerman. Now we have someone else calling in.

1018
01:17:38,039 --> 01:17:41,479
You're gonna have to wait another caller. Thanks for thanks for joining the

1019
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:45,039
call. Thanks for filling in.
I appreciate that. No problem. I

1020
01:17:45,359 --> 01:17:51,079
actually do have an interesting aviation related
case that someone just sent me about two

1021
01:17:51,119 --> 01:17:56,199
weeks ago. Oh excellent. Just
to keep in mind up, Just keep

1022
01:17:56,199 --> 01:17:58,800
this in mind, Linda, that
our guests may call in any minute.

1023
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:02,920
So I would like to join him
in. Yeah sure, yeah, no,

1024
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:05,399
no, I want you to stay
on though, so because I want

1025
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:09,479
you to talk about this with him
as well, So go ahead, Okay.

1026
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:15,399
Well, she was on a flight
back from Ghana in Africa. She

1027
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:20,399
was there on business. She's a
scientist, so a very credible person,

1028
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:27,159
and she's looking out the window and
she sees that the night flight, she

1029
01:18:27,319 --> 01:18:31,520
sees this beautiful what she thought was
the full moon. And she had two

1030
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:35,960
windows, one over the wing,
one to the right of that, and

1031
01:18:36,039 --> 01:18:42,000
she said it was just the most
stunning view of this full moon. And

1032
01:18:42,359 --> 01:18:47,199
she's watching it for close to an
hour and then she sees watches as it

1033
01:18:47,359 --> 01:18:54,039
slowly sinks behind the cloud bank,
and she just she was so enamored with

1034
01:18:54,079 --> 01:18:58,920
this. She remembers the next morning
she emailed her sister saying, I just

1035
01:18:59,039 --> 01:19:03,640
had the most amazing having experienced the
light of this full moon. Well that

1036
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:09,079
night, she's home in New York
and she's doing some chores. She looks

1037
01:19:09,079 --> 01:19:15,359
out the window and there's the crescent
moon. It was only an eight percent

1038
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:19,600
crescent, and she's like, freaking
out, how can this possibly be?

1039
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:26,319
I just saw the full moon on
my flight yesterday. So she called me

1040
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:30,680
up, knowing what I do,
and you know, I asked her a

1041
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,760
series of questions, well, did
you see any you know, craters or

1042
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:39,800
the seas on the moon? And
she realized she never saw any sort of

1043
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:47,239
surface features, just this beautiful bright
light tracking her plane for almost an hour.

1044
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:51,960
And this was the first experience like
this she ever had, and she

1045
01:19:53,079 --> 01:19:57,760
she didn't quite know how to deal
with it. So I said, it

1046
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:00,760
wasn't threatening. You enjoyed it.
I think you should be considered, you

1047
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:05,640
know, consider yourself fortunate. Did
she do you happen to know if she

1048
01:20:06,079 --> 01:20:13,399
talked to anybody else on the was
she alone traveling alone? She was traveling

1049
01:20:13,399 --> 01:20:16,840
alone, yes, and she didn't
mention it to any other passengers. And

1050
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:21,119
I asked if she took any picture
pictures and she said, well why should

1051
01:20:21,119 --> 01:20:24,880
I? It was a full moon. As as far as she do.

1052
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:30,800
Yeah, So, um, I
just thought that was remarkable and I didn't

1053
01:20:30,319 --> 01:20:34,720
I didn't see any other cases over
that part of the Atlantic. But it

1054
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:43,720
was the next night that the Irish
sightings took place, so, you know,

1055
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:48,399
not not really close. Um.
I don't know what track they took,

1056
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:53,359
but I would think from Africa to
New York, didn't go anywhere near

1057
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:59,000
Ireland. But still, um,
something unusual was certainly going on in the

1058
01:20:59,039 --> 01:21:00,880
sky at that time. Time.
Now, Linda, you've been a guest

1059
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:04,720
on the show a number of times
and and you've become you know, you've

1060
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:08,319
listened to a lot of shows,
and you've helped me out a number of

1061
01:21:08,359 --> 01:21:12,520
times. So if you want to
tell, I'm just waiting to see if

1062
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:16,600
our guest, our guest is back. Certainly I will hang up and Ben.

1063
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:21,079
Yeah, Todd, so you're back. I'm sure it was a government

1064
01:21:21,079 --> 01:21:24,880
that shut you down, which you
think so must have been. Yes,

1065
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:27,880
I'm for me in essay. Yes, there's some sort of secret society.

1066
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:29,960
I should have paid the dues too, but no, I didn't pay the

1067
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:31,159
dues, and this is what I
get for them. Yeah, that's that's

1068
01:21:31,279 --> 01:21:34,760
right. That's all right. So
we're on with Linda Zimmerman. She is

1069
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:39,840
a researcher in Upper State, New
York and has she was just telling a

1070
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:44,439
tale briefly, I'll just tell if
you wanted to say hi to or This

1071
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:48,920
person contacted her and saying they saw
they was watching the full moon for up

1072
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:55,279
to an hour outside of their window
of their flight from Africa to New York,

1073
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:59,640
and when she got home she noticed
that it was a crescent moon,

1074
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:03,000
so it was some type of object
she was looking at for up to an

1075
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:09,399
hour. Interesting huh, very interesting. We were talking from full moon what

1076
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:12,800
appeared to be a full moon's recrestent
moon, which means unless you had some

1077
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:16,520
sort of missing time event, it
wasn't the moon major missing time like thirty

1078
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:24,000
twenty days, so exactly. Well, Linda, well, I will let

1079
01:22:24,039 --> 01:22:27,880
you get back to your guest.
I'm enjoying what you're saying. Thank you

1080
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:31,359
very much for being on and enjoying
the show. It's always Martin, thank

1081
01:22:31,359 --> 01:22:34,319
you, Thank you, Linda.
I appreciate that. Yeah, all right,

1082
01:22:34,359 --> 01:22:38,760
take care. All right, So
my apologies see yourself and to your

1083
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:44,279
guests for the technical failure which was
more mindful and my power chord was out

1084
01:22:44,319 --> 01:22:47,119
and the darn thing drained out without
me noticing pochords back in. Now.

1085
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:50,479
Now, just don't I was wondering
if it might have been. I don't

1086
01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:56,479
even dare to say, Alex,
that might have done. Don't repeat that.

1087
01:22:56,840 --> 01:23:00,920
Yeah, we will not eat that. Yeah. So one more question

1088
01:23:01,239 --> 01:23:04,800
had came in. Do you think
the recent incident over Ireland that we were

1089
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:11,600
talking about reported by the media that
included audio of the pilot's conversation could have

1090
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:16,479
only been released as a result of
this subject having more credibility. And what

1091
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:23,840
the listener is talking about is,
you know, the UFO fields has changed

1092
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:29,319
a little bit since the New York
Times article came out last year in December,

1093
01:23:30,479 --> 01:23:32,279
And so what do you think about
that question? Do you think it

1094
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:38,199
uf always have more credibility now with
respect to this particular case, I don't

1095
01:23:38,239 --> 01:23:42,119
believe that enters into it at all, because, thanks to the technology of

1096
01:23:42,119 --> 01:23:46,199
the Internet and other changes in air
traffic control communication technology, there are air

1097
01:23:46,199 --> 01:23:53,199
traffic control conversations that are streaming live
around the world as we speak, and

1098
01:23:53,319 --> 01:23:58,079
being recorded by various private individuals and
groups, to the point that when an

1099
01:23:58,079 --> 01:24:00,159
event happens, let's say, for
example, well a few weeks ago,

1100
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:05,840
when the airplane was stolen in Seattle, there was air traffic control conversations of

1101
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:12,159
that that were released almost immediately by
various private groups. I believe Live atc

1102
01:24:12,399 --> 01:24:15,680
was one of them, and this
was without going through the FBI, without

1103
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:18,359
going through law enforcement. So I
believe this was a case with the Irish

1104
01:24:18,399 --> 01:24:21,640
event as well, that this conversation
was in the clear, that is,

1105
01:24:23,039 --> 01:24:28,119
it was picked up and recorded on
the fly and released that way. So

1106
01:24:28,239 --> 01:24:32,560
what I think this is an indicator
of is in the future, if there's

1107
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:38,079
some sort of major event where there's
air traffic control conversation, even if it's

1108
01:24:38,079 --> 01:24:42,319
an unexpected event in an obscure part
of the world, that conversation will be

1109
01:24:42,359 --> 01:24:45,760
reported and will be out there sooner
than anything. It's kind of it must

1110
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:49,560
be kind of boring though to listen
to. I mean, for instance,

1111
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:57,159
what it's the pilot's famous saying there's
twelve thousand hours of boredom when one second

1112
01:24:57,199 --> 01:25:00,399
of horror or something like that.
I don't know exactly what this saying is,

1113
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:06,000
but I've heard it. But people
wouldn't really notice. You know,

1114
01:25:06,039 --> 01:25:10,239
you're saying it's monitored. But who
do people really listen to it? I

1115
01:25:10,279 --> 01:25:14,079
mean, what are they listening for? There might be people out there who

1116
01:25:14,079 --> 01:25:15,920
are still in the aviation they would
listen to it. I'm not one of

1117
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:19,520
them. But this is the kind
of thing where, again, if some

1118
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:24,960
newsworthy event happens in some area,
it might be something where you know,

1119
01:25:25,079 --> 01:25:27,680
it might have been recorded for several
hours, and people will go back and

1120
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:30,600
listen closer to those recent recordings and
see if there's anything that stands out,

1121
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:34,960
and again, this is air traffic
control. The conversations only, for example,

1122
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:40,319
between the aircraft and air traffic control. The internal conversations within the cockpit

1123
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:44,840
would not be on this. The
internal conversations within air traffic control centers or

1124
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:46,600
the control tower or what have you
is not going to be there either.

1125
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:51,159
It's basically only the radio communications and
it only includes a voice. It doesn't

1126
01:25:51,199 --> 01:25:56,960
includes the data transmission that may be
going on in the background. Okay,

1127
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:02,359
I understand. I had someone on
I don't know a couple of years ago

1128
01:26:02,399 --> 01:26:08,560
that was talking about drones and she
said that the government, the US government

1129
01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:15,439
is installing new type of new type
of tracking system and it's she gave an

1130
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:19,720
enormous price tag. Is this anything
you've heard about? It's going to be

1131
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:25,000
a whole new way of tracking planes, of tracking. Well, there is

1132
01:26:25,199 --> 01:26:30,680
all sorts. There's always an evolution
going on with respect to the FA does

1133
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:33,920
air traffic control. One of them
has been going on for quite some time

1134
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:38,920
as they moved what's called ADSB,
which I used to know the acronym off

1135
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:43,159
the top of my head. But
it's basically a way of tracking aircraft that's

1136
01:26:43,199 --> 01:26:49,199
going to be relying less on monitoring
the transponder responses to radar interrogations and more

1137
01:26:49,319 --> 01:26:56,760
to do with ongoing communication between the
aircraft and air traffic control centers, using

1138
01:26:56,800 --> 01:27:00,840
satellites, using ground stations, using
a variety of means to get the information

1139
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:04,520
between the airplane and air traffic controlling
back. You know that the crash a

1140
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:10,239
few years ago where the plane was
just vanished, They had no idea where

1141
01:27:10,239 --> 01:27:13,720
it was, and searched and searched, you know the one I'm talking about,

1142
01:27:14,239 --> 01:27:17,880
an HG seventy. That's right,
Okay, So of course, whenever

1143
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:24,159
something dramatic like that happens, conspiracy
theories come out everywhere about it, and

1144
01:27:24,199 --> 01:27:29,359
one of them was someone was touting
online that it was an alien abduction.

1145
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:32,720
Of course, a those type of
things come up after a while. If

1146
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:38,279
you look for him, you can
find them. In that situation. I

1147
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:43,000
know they found pieces of the airplane, but that's highly unusual that they just

1148
01:27:43,199 --> 01:27:47,359
absolutely have. You know, it's
off the radar and gone. Well,

1149
01:27:47,359 --> 01:27:50,920
there's several things about that event.
They are highly unusual. Basically, the

1150
01:27:51,159 --> 01:27:56,119
early part of the flight was quite
normal. It was transiting from Leiblo's Kala

1151
01:27:56,199 --> 01:28:00,399
and pour towards China, and it
basically made a left turn of the South

1152
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:06,279
China Sea and passing over some areas, including one city that was the maintenance

1153
01:28:06,319 --> 01:28:11,119
base for Malaysia Airlines. So the
speculation might have been, well, maybe

1154
01:28:11,119 --> 01:28:13,600
there was a problem they were trying
to go to the maintenance base. The

1155
01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:16,439
aircraft was painted by military radar,
I believe in Thailand and one other country

1156
01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:20,399
as was going over that part of
Southeast Asia, so they had some tracking

1157
01:28:20,399 --> 01:28:25,800
of it until it went out to
the Indian Ocean. And basically the direction

1158
01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:30,279
it took was such that if you
want to find a lonelier, less transverse

1159
01:28:30,439 --> 01:28:34,000
part of the world, you could
not do much better than where this airplane

1160
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:39,159
apparently ended up. This is a
part of the world that is not heavily

1161
01:28:39,199 --> 01:28:43,119
traffic and ship traffic. It was
never a hot spot during the Cold War.

1162
01:28:43,239 --> 01:28:46,560
So unlike the North Atlantic between North
America and Europe, you don't have

1163
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:54,359
all sorts of sound equipment on the
seafloor listening for submarine screws and that sort

1164
01:28:54,359 --> 01:28:59,199
of thing. So the kind of
military presence you have in North Atlantic where

1165
01:28:59,279 --> 01:29:02,840
something explode was into water, it'll
be heard that wasn't available on the Indian

1166
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:09,760
Ocean, and fortunately because of the
communication system that was on the aircraft,

1167
01:29:10,399 --> 01:29:14,640
which was capable of although they didn't
have the system in place to send a

1168
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:20,520
regular technical transmissions from the aircraft back
to home base, there was basically a

1169
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:27,239
basic once an hour signal that was
deeped out from this airplane and the Inmarsat

1170
01:29:27,359 --> 01:29:31,239
system picking it up on their satellites. Was they were able to later figure

1171
01:29:31,239 --> 01:29:36,640
out based on when these signals arrived
at the satellites, they backfigured where this

1172
01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:43,119
aircraft could have been, and they
basically had it narrowed to a strip of

1173
01:29:43,159 --> 01:29:45,399
ocean that was on arc I can't
remember how many miles long, with basically

1174
01:29:46,079 --> 01:29:49,760
an area of the ocean that was
roughly the size of Pennsylvania is where they

1175
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:54,600
had been looking for the aircraft a
few months ago and didn't find it yet.

1176
01:29:55,000 --> 01:30:00,000
But conspiracy theories aside, the best
available evidence was the inn Maar SAD

1177
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:06,079
signals that basically specified a part of
the Indian Ocean where this aircraft might have

1178
01:30:06,159 --> 01:30:12,359
stopped flying. Wow, Wow,
that's yeah, that's a real mystery.

1179
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:16,600
I heard something about the possibility of
the pilot may have had some emotional issues,

1180
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:20,319
but no one you know, I
mean that may be another conspiracy.

1181
01:30:21,079 --> 01:30:25,640
Go ahead. Oh there. There
are four basic theories I came up with

1182
01:30:25,760 --> 01:30:28,640
based on the limited data that was
out there. And these are the four

1183
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:31,520
theories I had within a week or
two of this plane disappearing. One was

1184
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:36,600
an old fashioned hijacking, some outside
entity takes over the airplane. Second,

1185
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:41,560
an insider hijacking, kind of like
what happened with the German Wings aircraft in

1186
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:45,560
twenty fifteen. I think it was
where the pilot locked out the other pilot

1187
01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:49,960
and deliberately crossed the airplane. You
have a normal, complex accident that is

1188
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:56,439
the kind of accident that happens in
modern aviation, an airliner aviation where in

1189
01:30:56,479 --> 01:31:00,640
spite of all the sophisticated systems and
procedures in place, combination of events or

1190
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:05,840
situations took place where there was no
real way to deal with it. There

1191
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:10,119
was no system in place, there
was no procedure in place. The crew

1192
01:31:10,199 --> 01:31:14,720
did everything they could to keep the
airplane in the air, but didn't bother

1193
01:31:14,760 --> 01:31:16,439
to communicate with the outside world because
they were too busy trying to fly the

1194
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:20,600
plane. And the fourth one,
which is basically you know, these are

1195
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:25,920
not in isolation I think it's a
combination of one of the first three plus

1196
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:30,680
the fourth one, the fourth one
being at some point during the flight,

1197
01:31:30,279 --> 01:31:34,279
the crew or whoever was flying the
aircraft was either unwilling or unable to make

1198
01:31:34,359 --> 01:31:39,760
any changes to the fly control system
or or the autopilot system, and it

1199
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:43,399
just kept flying at a nice steady
altitude, nice steady speed until it ran

1200
01:31:43,439 --> 01:31:46,560
out of fuel. Oh boy,
that's scary, all right, So I

1201
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:53,920
do want to talk before your internet
crashed your computer crash there. I did

1202
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:57,840
ask you the question if we can
talk a little bit about stats, how

1203
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:03,439
basically just throw some figures out that
you are aware of. First of all,

1204
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:10,000
like, how safe is flying commercial? For it? Well, it's

1205
01:32:09,760 --> 01:32:14,359
all safe. I'm glad you said. The word safe. Safe is a

1206
01:32:14,479 --> 01:32:17,359
like beauty. It's a subjective concept
that's in the eye of the beholder and

1207
01:32:18,079 --> 01:32:23,439
depends on context. I've actually jumped
out of an airplane once as a skydiver,

1208
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:27,079
and only once. Was it safe? I thought so, otherwise I

1209
01:32:27,079 --> 01:32:30,760
wouldn't have done it. Was it
risky, much more so than being a

1210
01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:34,560
passenger in an airplane? Is the
risk acceptable? It was to me at

1211
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:39,039
the time, which is why I
thought it was safe. It was unacceptable

1212
01:32:39,079 --> 01:32:42,079
to virtually anyone with any sense,
and it would have been considered to be

1213
01:32:42,079 --> 01:32:46,319
an unsafe EVM. Sorry, I'm
having trouble understanding right now. Please try

1214
01:32:46,319 --> 01:32:51,319
it a little later. Is there
a way? How difficult? Is there

1215
01:32:51,399 --> 01:32:58,600
is a way? Yeah, not
difficult at all. It's just saying one

1216
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:05,600
key word there that's waking up,
waking her up. So poor Alexa.

1217
01:33:06,319 --> 01:33:12,079
Technical problem solved. Good, I
mean, increases your guest to have and

1218
01:33:12,119 --> 01:33:15,960
he can't get his podcast here to
go straight? What's wrong with this guy?

1219
01:33:16,439 --> 01:33:19,960
A good thing. You're not flying
the plane, right, That's why

1220
01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:25,439
I was an engineer and not a
pilot. Yeah, so I just basically

1221
01:33:25,479 --> 01:33:29,640
want to uh, you know,
I mean I've heard of people throw out

1222
01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:31,920
things like, um, you know, it's it's uh, you have much

1223
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:34,960
more of a chance getting into an
accident going to the airport than you do

1224
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:40,720
flying a plane. And and uh, you know, millions of planes are

1225
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:45,840
uh you know in the air per
year or all that stuff. I mean,

1226
01:33:45,079 --> 01:33:48,520
at any given time, there's thousands
of them, tens of thousands of

1227
01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:53,640
them in the air right any even
time, during the main part of the

1228
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:57,039
flying day, there could be on
the order of nine thousand airliners flying with

1229
01:33:57,479 --> 01:34:02,039
like a million million two people in
the air constantly as we speak. Again,

1230
01:34:02,079 --> 01:34:06,520
we're talking about a situation where you
have tens of thousands of aircraft airline

1231
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:11,399
a aircraft flying every day around the
world, of course, various time zones

1232
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:15,319
and such. Assume that you have
an average a passenger load of one hundred

1233
01:34:15,359 --> 01:34:19,079
people. Depending on the time of
day, you could have well over a

1234
01:34:19,079 --> 01:34:25,039
million and a half people airborne in
the sky. The US two seventeen,

1235
01:34:25,079 --> 01:34:30,039
according to the FAA, passenger airlines
only had about eight point six million flights.

1236
01:34:31,079 --> 01:34:34,239
And this is eight point six million
flights over three hundred and sixty five

1237
01:34:34,319 --> 01:34:39,079
days. So we're talking about again
tens of thousands of flights per day.

1238
01:34:39,079 --> 01:34:43,039
And sorry, my calculator in my
head isn't quite working right. And so

1239
01:34:43,439 --> 01:34:46,159
eight point three million divided by three
hundred and sixty five that's how many we

1240
01:34:46,199 --> 01:34:50,039
have going on. How many times
does it result in a disaster and a

1241
01:34:50,079 --> 01:34:55,439
disaster in my book, does a
single passenger get killed during the fly?

1242
01:34:56,680 --> 01:35:00,760
Well, in two eighteen or two
in this country we actually had one happened

1243
01:35:00,800 --> 01:35:03,840
for the first time in a long
time. There was a southwest airliner flying

1244
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:09,560
near Philly. There was a rapid
decompression event which happened after there was an

1245
01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:14,199
uncontingent engine failure. Piece of the
engine hit a window, window pops out.

1246
01:35:14,439 --> 01:35:16,520
Unfortunately, one passenger was pulled out
of the aircraft and ended up dying.

1247
01:35:17,079 --> 01:35:24,840
That was the first passenger fatality in
the US on even the US or

1248
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:29,439
a non US airliner since twenty thirteen. That was the event in San Francisco

1249
01:35:29,479 --> 01:35:33,840
with the AEGEANA seven seven seven,
and there you had roughly nine of the

1250
01:35:33,840 --> 01:35:38,680
people survived. There are three people
killed, three hundred plus or roughly three

1251
01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:42,640
hundred people who survived. That you
would have to go back to two thousand

1252
01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:46,159
and nine in the United States for
the last time you had an airliner crash

1253
01:35:46,279 --> 01:35:49,920
killing everybody on board. That was
roughly a month after the Miracle on the

1254
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:55,239
Hudson event that we've heard of the
movie subtly. Personally, I haven't seen

1255
01:35:55,239 --> 01:35:58,920
it because I can't stand movies like
that. Go figure, and no one

1256
01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:01,079
got killed in the Miracle on the
Hudson. Everyone got killed a few weeks

1257
01:36:01,159 --> 01:36:05,600
later in the Buffalo crash. Now
around the world, the situation is not

1258
01:36:05,640 --> 01:36:12,439
the same because let's just say that
the infrastructure that other countries are using very

1259
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:16,039
wildly. The Western Europe, North
America, Australia, Japan, they have

1260
01:36:16,159 --> 01:36:21,439
all the latest and greatest equipment in
use. They also have the strictest regulations,

1261
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:29,479
and the regulations aren't very different between
international flying and domestic flying. Without

1262
01:36:29,479 --> 01:36:34,199
getting too fine a point on it, each nation is responsible for the regulations

1263
01:36:34,199 --> 01:36:38,680
they have within that nation when it
comes to flying. When it comes to

1264
01:36:38,680 --> 01:36:43,520
international flying, there's a set of
standards that every nation adheres to. If

1265
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:46,119
you don't adhere to it, it's
likely you won't get landing rights in a

1266
01:36:46,199 --> 01:36:51,560
second country. So international flying has
a level of risks that's I would say

1267
01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:57,239
universally low. That is the likelihood
of flying on a flight that is an

1268
01:36:57,359 --> 01:37:01,560
international flight relatively low high. When
it comes to domestic fire, Yeah,

1269
01:37:01,640 --> 01:37:04,359
I know we're off the UFO topic, but I still want to just get

1270
01:37:04,359 --> 01:37:08,680
a little bit of this, And
in the training that I had, I

1271
01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:13,560
remember, you know, the conception
of ditching is, you know, you

1272
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:16,680
land in water. Everything's cool,
but it's not cool. It's like you

1273
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:20,880
land in water. You it's something
like ninety percent chance that you're gonna not

1274
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:25,960
make it. You know, funny. I'm glad you mentioned ditching because it

1275
01:37:26,079 --> 01:37:30,119
also speaks to yeah, when it
comes to normalous events, how you define

1276
01:37:30,199 --> 01:37:34,880
things will determine whether or not you
count something as being in that category,

1277
01:37:35,119 --> 01:37:40,159
or would color your idea of how
often it happens. I actually lift up

1278
01:37:40,159 --> 01:37:44,760
one day on the FA website,
what's the definition for ditching? I couldn't

1279
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:47,600
find one. I thought, this
is a basic concept. I should see

1280
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:51,880
it in the Airman's Information Manual or
some one of the glossaries. I couldn't

1281
01:37:51,880 --> 01:37:56,119
find one, so I came up
my own. Basically, is there a

1282
01:37:56,199 --> 01:38:00,119
chance of someone drowning if the thing
sinks? Now, planes land and water

1283
01:38:00,199 --> 01:38:02,760
all the time, running off the
runway, et cetera. Maybe it's shallow

1284
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:06,399
water. Planes crash in water all
the time, but very rarely do you

1285
01:38:06,439 --> 01:38:12,520
have a classic ditching that is the
flight crew deliberately says we're going to put

1286
01:38:12,520 --> 01:38:14,960
this airplane in the water, and
they put it in the water. Yeah.

1287
01:38:15,479 --> 01:38:17,439
The miracle on the Hudson was only
the fourth time I could find in

1288
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:23,119
the history of jetty aviation where that
definition of different ditching happened. Amazing.

1289
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:27,119
I think we have about four minutes
left somewhere around there. I want to

1290
01:38:27,119 --> 01:38:31,800
talk quickly about one other flight where
there's been a crash where there's been a

1291
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:38,159
lot of conspiracy, and that's Flight
TWA with four minutes left TWA, eight

1292
01:38:38,239 --> 01:38:43,760
hundred off of Long Island. There's
been movies written about it, you know,

1293
01:38:44,319 --> 01:38:46,920
lots of stories where people think that
was shot down, possibly by era

1294
01:38:47,399 --> 01:38:54,560
from the military. What do you
know about that particular crash that happened in

1295
01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:59,560
July seventeen, nineteen ninety six,
literally two weeks of the day after I

1296
01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:03,880
started safe dot com, which so
it was like a real education there because

1297
01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:09,520
I saw the Internet in its infancy
responding to aviation crashes. I was at

1298
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:13,920
Boeing Safety Engineering at the time,
and our department supported our FUELD investigator,

1299
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:16,800
so we were in deep on that
one. That was a subtle problem,

1300
01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:20,560
and to make a long story short, there was some sort of fuel air

1301
01:39:20,600 --> 01:39:25,680
mixture in the center fuel tank that
exploded. Prior to that event, the

1302
01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:30,720
basic understanding the industry was that it
wasn't possible to have a combination of temperature

1303
01:39:30,720 --> 01:39:35,119
and pressure and fuel density aerosol density
to cause an explosion, even if you

1304
01:39:35,199 --> 01:39:41,000
had an ignition source that was wrong. There was an underlying assumption when it

1305
01:39:41,039 --> 01:39:45,840
came to design of aircraft that was
proven wrong by that event. Subsequent designs

1306
01:39:45,880 --> 01:39:49,000
have taken steps to inert the fuel
or to take other steps to make that

1307
01:39:49,079 --> 01:39:53,640
kind of event not happen again.
So yeah, it was heavily investigated,

1308
01:39:53,880 --> 01:40:00,439
conspiracy theories aside, it was overwhelming
evidence that it was accident due to a

1309
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:09,000
not complete understanding of how explosions happened
in a fuel tank. That's it's it's

1310
01:40:09,119 --> 01:40:15,720
just, uh, I guess we
might have a we might have a problem.

1311
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:21,199
Let me just see, we've had
a few of them. There's still

1312
01:40:21,880 --> 01:40:26,279
okay, it's odd. It just
it just went out a bit there.

1313
01:40:26,359 --> 01:40:30,159
But we're all set. We're going
to keep moving here. Whoops um so

1314
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:34,159
um, and and if I may
take twenty seconds to pull that back into

1315
01:40:34,199 --> 01:40:39,039
the UFO area. Yeah, that
was a key for flight eight hundred.

1316
01:40:39,319 --> 01:40:42,560
There was a concerted effort to actually
use the data that was out there,

1317
01:40:42,880 --> 01:40:45,199
do research on the data that had
been done before, to try and figure

1318
01:40:45,199 --> 01:40:48,199
out what's the answer to this question, what the heck is it and how

1319
01:40:48,199 --> 01:40:51,640
did it happen. If you put
that kind of effort, even one tenth

1320
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:58,119
the effort toward resolving things like the
Irish event, or the Phoenix Lights or

1321
01:40:58,159 --> 01:41:02,119
the event that happened recently in North
California and Oregon. Then there would be

1322
01:41:02,119 --> 01:41:05,399
better answers out there than what we
have now, which is mostly speculation.

1323
01:41:06,039 --> 01:41:11,479
Yeah right, Well, Hey,
we're just about right at the end of

1324
01:41:11,479 --> 01:41:14,279
our show. We have just about
a minute left here. So I do

1325
01:41:14,319 --> 01:41:17,239
want to thank you so much for
being on the show this evening. And

1326
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:21,800
so the name of your website is
airsafe dot com. Is airsafe dot com

1327
01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:27,239
your location to go to for information
about airline safety and security, giving them

1328
01:41:27,239 --> 01:41:30,199
the public good information since nineteen ninety
six. Wow, that's a long time

1329
01:41:30,199 --> 01:41:33,439
for a website to be around.
It is very long time. And I

1330
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:39,680
didn't have great airback then. All
right, Well, it's been entertaining,

1331
01:41:39,760 --> 01:41:42,600
and thanks so much. Oh just
one other quick thing. You do a

1332
01:41:42,680 --> 01:41:46,319
podcast there too as well, sometimes
right on very rare occasions, the conversation

1333
01:41:46,359 --> 01:41:49,920
at airsafe dot com, And as
we spoke off the line earlier, one

1334
01:41:49,920 --> 01:41:54,079
of these days soon I'll resurrect it
for the first time in several months.

1335
01:41:54,239 --> 01:41:58,199
To have a certain form of flight
attendant on my show. All right,

1336
01:41:58,279 --> 01:42:00,359
sounds good. All right, thanks
a lot, Todd, thank you.

1337
01:42:00,560 --> 01:42:04,399
All right, Okay, everyone,
so that's it for our show, and

1338
01:42:04,760 --> 01:42:08,800
thank you so much for listening.
And I thought it was fascinating. I

1339
01:42:08,800 --> 01:42:14,479
hope you enjoyed it too. And
we'll be back next week with astronomer Mark

1340
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:18,000
D'Antonio, repeat guest. Always a
lot of fun, so we'll be talking

1341
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:21,399
about all kinds of things and back
next week. And thank you everyone.

1342
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:26,359
I appreciate it, and thank you
for your support, and remember to keep

1343
01:42:26,439 --> 01:42:48,680
your eyes to the sky.